antiperspirant. >> try it today at mike pompeo. >> with limited time free shipping. >> the first 100 days, it's a critical time for our country. and rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> now is the time. so we're going to do it. settle in. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. each week, veteran lawyers andrew weissmann and mary mccord break down the latest developments inside the trump administration's department of justice. >> the administration. doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of. >> its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> okay, the president is calling himself a king, firing generals and powering unelected oligarchs and trying to silence the free press. and no, i'm not

actually talking about vladimir putin. the good news is the american people are starting to push back. loudly against wannabe dictator donald trump. former national security adviser susan rice is going to join me for an exclusive interview to talk about all of it. but there was chaos across washington this weekend, as elon musk told every federal employee to justify their jobs in an email. or resign. former labor secretary robert reich joins us to talk about this brazen effort to intimidate and threaten the entire federal government. and later, i'll ask former manhattan district attorney cy vance about the ongoing saga surrounding new york city mayor eric adams. spoiler alert it's not over yet. okay, so tomorrow marks three years since russia launched their full scale invasion of ukraine. and i remember very clearly where i was that night.

i know ali velshi was just talking about this, too, and you may remember where you were. i was sitting in jake sullivan's office in the west wing, waiting for an update on whether the war had actually begun just weeks earlier. remember, the national security team in the biden administration had made this decision to declassify information, including russian plans to attack ukraine in order for the world to know what to expect and to kind of call them out. point being, we knew it was russia planning to illegally invade ukraine. the world did even before it started. but that night in february, it was clear something was happening on the ground, and we were waiting for updates from the military on what they were seeing, not knowing at the time how long ukraine could hold kyiv, how long zelensky and his military could hold back the russian forces. but they did hold kyiv, and they have fought every single day since then. now, three years later, that war has killed and wounded hundreds of thousands of soldiers and

civilians and displaced far more. cities have been destroyed. ukrainian children have been kidnaped and trafficked by russian authorities, and we've all watched it play out before our eyes. this is all important to remember, and i wanted to start here because we're all trying to digest what we saw happen this week. i mean, the current president of the united states railed against a man he called a dictator without elections, who he claimed should have never started this war. but he wasn't talking about russian dictator vladimir putin. he was referring to ukrainian president zelensky. it didn't stop there. he also falsely claimed that zelensky bamboozled the united states into helping him pay for the war, that he had a rock bottom approval rating. he doesn't, and that he didn't even deserve a seat at the negotiating table to end a war in his own country. and he said all of that while continuing to praise putin and kremlin talking points, as he's been doing for years. now, obviously, this embrace of russia is not new for trump, but it has immense implications for

america's moral authority in the world. and i also think it's important to talk about what's motivating all of this praise of vladimir putin. there are obviously a lot of theories. i'm not going to get into them all, but i think one of the reasons that's long been overlooked is this if trump can trick americans into thinking putin's way of doing things is acceptable, then maybe he can trick them into thinking everything he is doing is acceptable to. i mean, if what putin is doing in russia is fine, and we definitely know trump thinks it is, then what could be wrong with what trump is doing in this country? what's wrong with empowering a handful of wealthy business leaders and giving them unprecedented influence, or granting the richest man in the world free rein to do whatever he wants, like, say, threaten every federal employee to justify their work or resign. or firing military generals who aren't sufficiently loyal to him. if russian tactics are just the cost of doing business, then what's wrong with operating in an openly corrupt way, like dropping charges against a

certain new york city mayor in exchange for his obedience? what's wrong with installing sycophants like kash patel in positions of power, or bypassing congress and defying court orders, or cracking down on our free press, like barring certain news outlets from official events. that stuff happens in russia all the time, or with threatening territorial expansion, like the nonstop talk about seizing canada, greenland and the panama canal. and if putin's way is the right way, what's wrong with the idea of staying in power beyond a second term? >> should i run again? you tell me. i think i'm not allowed to run again. i'm not sure. am i allowed to run again? they say i can't run again. that's the expression, sir. then somebody said, i don't think you can. oh. >> he acts like he's joking there. but i mean, given all the context i just laid out, it's really obviously not that funny. look, the point here is this. if trump can justify putin's

behavior, then he can justify his own. but the problem for trump is that's a pretty steep hill to climb, because the american people don't like putin's way of doing things. i mean, take a look at a few polls out this week that kind of tell this story. one from quinnipiac university that shows that 81% of american voters think the united states should not trust vladimir putin, and another from the washington post that shows that about by a 17 point margin, americans think trump has exceeded his authority since taking office. so that's a majority of americans in multiple polls telling us they don't want to be anything like russia. and some lawmakers are starting to say that, too. in ohio, a district that has voted republican going back more than 40 years, trump endorsed congressman troy balderson spoke out, saying that trump's orders are getting out of control. no kidding. in alaska, senator lisa murkowski said, we have to stand up to the mass firings and efforts to withhold federal funding. and even when lawmakers don't really want to talk about this, they can't seem to get

away from it. like in wisconsin, where constituents at a town hall carried signs with slogans like presidents are not kings and demanded answers from republican congressman scott fitzgerald. and in oregon, where republican congressman cliff bentz was met with booing and heckling from crowds, all frustrated over trump's recent executive actions. and in oklahoma, where republican kevin hern tried to talk about the border and the deficit, but his constituents only wanted answers about trump and musk's erratic government cuts and a ruby red part of georgia, where republican rich mccormick was peppered with questions from a very fired up crowd about trump's power. >> to stand up for you stand. ways. i know we asked you. >> don't bend over. >> so if you're going, just yell at me. that's not going to be an effective government. okay. >> i'm going to bet we'll see a lot more of where that came

from, because the more trump mirrors the tactics of putin, the more people don't like it, the more he leans into the behaviors of an all powerful dictator, the more people push back so he can try to rewrite history and paint putin's actions as acceptable to justify his own actions. but it doesn't mean we have to let him. and people don't seem to be out there. joining me now is someone who understands these issues domestic, international, all of them better than almost anyone. susan rice served as national security advisor to president obama, u.s. ambassador to the united nations, and most recently as the director of president biden's domestic policy council. susan, it is so good to see you. thank you so much for taking the time this morning. >> great to. >> be with you, jen. >> i just wanted to start by asking you, because i think there's so much incoming news at all moments, and you are the perfect person to understand so much of it that we're all trying to digest. and this morning, president zelensky gave a press conference. he was asked a very pointed question, a hypothetical one from a reporter, where he said in response that he'd be

willing to step down in exchange for lasting peace in ukraine and nato membership. now, i heard that and talked to some reporters on the ground, and it felt to me like something any good leader worth their salt would say. but a lot of people are reading into it. so i wanted to get a sense from you. on how you heard his comments. jen, i heard it just the way you. >> did it. >> there's nothing. remarkable in normal. times about a democratically elected leader. like zelensky. putting his country before. >> himself. >> saying he will do what. >> is best. >> for the. interests of ukraine. it's only. remarkable because we're living in a context. here where it's hard to. imagine that. >> the president of united. >> states would. >> put the country ahead of. >> himself. >> given how. >> he did. >> everything he possibly. >> could to resist leaving office after he lost in 2020. and so much more. so i don't consider what zelenskyy. said t. be anything earth shattering. he was simply. saying that the

interests of ukraine come before my personal interests. >> that that is very helpful for people to hear. i think there's a lot of analysis out there and you, of all people know, know how to read these things. let me add, i just started by the show by talking a bit about some unbelievable comments that trump has made where he has essentially attacked zelensky and in many ways backed putin a bit in how he's handled the last couple of weeks. i mean, his attack against zelensky included calling him a dictator. he he suggested maybe he started the war. all of these things are ludicrous. but you've been in these rooms. how how are you digesting it? and how do you think the world is digesting what trump is saying? well, not only are. >> trump's comments ludicrous, they're extremely dangerous. and they portend. >> i think, a. >> very ominous shift in the united states. >> approach to the world. >> donald trump is aligning

himself very explicitly with vladimir putin. >> a dictator. >> as you pointed out. >> in your. >> intro, and also jen. >> with xi jinping. >> of china, because understand that putin and xi, along with north korea and iran, are an axis of authoritarians. they work together. they are, in effect, allies. and donald trump is doing a number. >> of things. >> that benefit only xi and putin. for example, calling into question our commitment to the security of our western allies in nato, throwing ukraine under the bus, starting an unprecedented conflict even in terms of tensions that could ratchet up to extreme levels with our closest partner and ally and neighbor canada threatening to invade a nato ally, denmark, to capture greenland. pulling us off the

field globally suddenly, something that vladimir putin and xi jinping are dancing about in their respective capitals. starting trade wars with our closest allies. all of these things only benefit when you distill it all. putin and xi. and what message does it send to xi jinping? when donald trump says to ukraine that they are the aggressor, they are, in fact the victims of an invasion are somehow the ones who started the war, and that the price for ending the war ought to be the ukraine gives up territory, has no security guarantees. and oh, by the way, give over $500 billion to donald trump in the united states for nothing in return. if i'm xi jinping, i'm looking at that going great. now's my time to invade taiwan. and so this is really, really a dangerous realignment of u.s.

national interests. and it's just shocking to me that republicans in congress who know better are seemingly taking a pass, as all this seems to be transpiring. >> it is an unbelievable part of the story, and i just want to just double tap on something you just said that people may not realize, which is that people in other capitals read what is said in this country and they digest it. and that's such an important part for people to understand. let me ask you about something happening here. domestically, you have overseen so many large teams of government employees and the national security side also on the domestic side. and just last night, there was this email that went out from the doge team, from elon musk's team essentially, that basically asked employees to summarize their work over the last week. and it coincided with the tweet from elon musk suggesting employees who didn't respond would be terminated. now, some of these agencies included the fbi, the department of defense.

i mean, there were a range of agencies on here. some agencies employees were telling them not to respond. but i just how alarming is this? i mean, there are many ways it's alarming from national security perspective, asking people to do this. but what is your reaction to hearing about that? >> it's extraordinary. i mean, what trump is doing using elon musk as his tool is literally dismantling the united states federal government. and it's not just the people as horrific as that is laying off talented, experienced public servants who do nothing but serve the american people at very low salaries compared to what they could get in the private sector. but it's halting the programs and the benefits that americans rely on across the political spectrum. you know, it's extraordinary what is happening, and it is going to hurt not just the federal employees, 2 million of them, by the way, the vast

majority of whom don't live in the washington, dc area. but it is going to hurt average, everyday americans who rely on everything from the opportunity to call the veterans administration and get the kinds of help they need. and now they can't get their phone calls answered. to the elderly person who relies on meals on wheels, to the person who had, under joe biden, insulin cut down to no more than $35 a month and now see their insulin prices spiking. i mean, there are all kinds of ways in which the actions and the policies, in addition to the cuts of federal workers that this administration is doing, is already starting to hurt americans in the places that matter most to them, their pocketbooks, their health, their small businesses. this is extraordinary. when you just to give an example that maybe people don't understand. when you slash and end all usaid

programs, you're not just starving and killing innocent people overseas. you are harming american farmers. you are harming american workers who depend on those resources. it's american farmers whose products are bought by and sent to help feed hungry people around the world. now they're not getting their money and their produce is rotting at the ports. this is an extraordinary, very reckless thing that this administration is doing. and it is not going to end well for the american people. and i don't think it's going to end well for donald trump. >> susan rice, i know how many things, you know, because i've sat in a lot of meetings with you. but i just so appreciate you coming and talking about such a wide range of issues. thank you so much for taking the time. >> great to be with you, jen. >> coming up, what did you do last week? we just talked about this, but that was the subject line of that email. federal workers across the government saw in their inbox yesterday.

elon musk told them to respond or resign. former labor secretary robert reich is standing by to talk more about that story, and he joins me next. >> there is a traitor in the house. >> there are. >> five names on there. your wife's one of them. love you. >> what's on. >> the menu? >> i have a game. >> one of them is a liar. i want to. >> know which. >> have you ever killed. >> another person? yes or no? >> yes. >> oh, my. >> have you ever betrayed your country? >> only if i had to. would you lie for me, george? >> if you needed my help. >> if you needed my help. >> would you. kill for me? ♪ rinse it out ♪ ♪ every now and then ♪ ♪ i get a little bit tired of the stinks ♪ ♪ that just will never come out ♪ ♪ pour downy in the rinse, jade ♪ ♪ every now and then i rinse it out! ♪ fights odor in just one wash. experience advanced technology in the buick envision. (♪♪) equipped with the largest-in-class

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plus, ask how to get the new samsung galaxy s25+ on us. >> oh welcome to. >> warby parker. >> well, as i was just talking about with susan rice, the chaos started, as it often does with a post on social media from donald trump. yesterday, trump posted this in all caps. quote elon is doing a great job, but i would like to see him get more aggressive. now, a few hours later, elon musk posted this. all federal employees will shortly receive an email requesting to understand what they got done last week. failure to respond will be taken as a resignation. that's quite a last line there. now, shortly after musk post, workers across the federal government did receive an email asking them to respond by tomorrow night with five bullet points of what they accomplished last week. now, in his post on twitter, musk said people who failed to answer the message would lose their jobs, but the email itself didn't

include that threat. confused already? same here. i'm also confused and same with most of the federal workforce workforce. now, we should be clear about something. elon musk has zero legal authority to fire government employees or force their resignations. these people don't report to elon musk. they report to heads of their agencies, and the heads of agencies are in some cases, telling them not to respond. as sam stein of the bulwark reported, basically every federal employee he talked to last night said their agency had encouraged them not to respond to the musk email that even included the new trump sycophant at the top of the fbi, kash patel, who told fbi employees not to respond. so elon musk says email back or resign, and heads of agencies say don't respond. got it. and what about people who just can't access their email right by tomorrow? right by tomorrow's deadline? what about them? the washington post noted one example of people in the defense department who were on tours of duty in remote or inaccessible locations and cannot check their emails. what happens to them if they don't

respond by monday night? who knows? and i'm sure it hasn't been thought about. what? about the people who are too sketched out to respond? one employee at the commerce department told politico this email looks exactly like all of the phishing email examples that federal employees see in training. i'm not responding to it. again, another example of total chaos, all caused by unelected doge guy elon musk. and again, he has no legal authority here. what this looks like is a very clear effort by the richest man in the world to either intimidate or demoralize, or both the entire federal government into leaving their jobs. joining me now is robert reich. he's the former secretary of labor. he served in government for more than two decades across three administrations. thank you so much for being here. i want to talk about your viral tweet in a moment, but i first wanted to just ask you, you have you have managed the department. you have been a defender of workers for so many years. what do you make of this email that went out to federal workers, and what do you think elon musk is trying to do here?

>> it's very hard. >> to. >> know what. >> elon musk is trying to do, but. >> he. >> is sowing. >> chaos. >> and he is. >> also doing it in an extraordinarily condescending. >> way. >> treating civil. >> service people. >> civil servants, people who have dedicated their lives to the united states. >> who have. >> pledged allegiance to the. >> united states, who are working for. >> all of us, treating them. >> like like schoolchildren. >> this is the. >> richest man. >> the richest. >> person in the world. >> who has no formal. >> government authority whatsoever. he has never. been confirmed. nobody has. >> seen his. >> conflicts of interest, nobody has seen. >> anything has been vetted. and he on his own. >> i mean. >> that that email came from him. it was put on his own platform. >> which. >> he purchased. >> x for. >> $44 billion, telling federal workers. >> what they have to do. >> well, if this is not a takeover.

>> of. the federal. >> government of the united states, i don't. >> know what is. >> you just mentioned conflicts of interest. there are a lot of reasons to be concerned about elon musk. i think this is a big one that it's important for people to understand. tell us a little bit more about where you see the biggest conflicts of interest. and as somebody who has had a very prominent position in government, why that is a problem, which may sound obvious, but help people understand that. >> well, public trust. >> is critical. >> in government, obviously. >> and if you have people. >> like elon musk who are not. even confirmed. >> who are telling public servants what to do. and who are also firing them and taking, you know, hundreds. >> of thousands. >> of workers and telling them you have got to either take. this particular offer or. >> you are fired. >> well. >> you can see the intimidation of the federal workers. so elon musk, for example, he has six.

>> big. >> big firms, the food and drug administration, for example, oversees one of his major enterprises called neuralink. well, the fda has had a lot of people fired essentially. by elon musk and. elon musk's troops. or take the federal aviation administration. >> the faa. >> that oversees space x, which is a huge. enterprise and very profitable, profitable enterprise from elon musk. well, those people have also, at the faa, been downsized, but a lot of them have lost their jobs. what are they what what do you expect them to do in terms of overseeing space x? or i could go on this consumer financial protection. >> board. >> which is. >> extraordinarily important. telsa tesla has a lot of financial issues with regard to

consumer debt. and also. musk has talked about using x. as a payment system. well, what are you going to expect in terms of very strong oversight from an agency that is. being attacked by musk time and again, over and across the government, we see conflicts of interest which are going to, if they haven't already, minimized the degree to which musk's enterprises are being vetted and overseen as they should be overseen. >> it's so much to dig into. i hope you'll come back and help us understand it and help us explain it to people again. secretary reich, thank you so much for joining me and taking the time today. >> thank you jeff. >> coming up, we're going to talk about a federal judge deciding not to dismiss the case against eric adams, at least not yet. i'll explain after the

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that is true. the charges have nothing to do with donald trump or his immigration policy. first of all, the indictment was filed in september before trump was elected. and second, you heard bondi refer to airline tickets, but it's really not quite as simple as that. the indictment alleges those were illegal favors like flight upgrades and free hotels that were offered up as rewards by turkish officials to get adams to basically do stuff for them. and that cozy relationship between adams and turkey actually started more than a decade ago, long before trump came down that escalator. i mean, as far back as 2011, state senator adams was pushing for a turkish company to win a lucrative contract to produce taxis for new york. it didn't pan out, but you can see him there in that photo op, jokingly offering some cash to the brooklyn borough president. again, that had nothing to do with trump or immigration. i mean, the night before adams held that event, trump was literally busy firing latoya jackson on the celebrity apprentice. you can see that

there. by august of 2015, eric adams had taken one of his first reported trips to turkey, where, according to the indictment, he established, quote, corrupt relationships. now, at that time, donald trump was still getting a run for his money in the republican primaries. remember this from people like ben carson, of all people, and jeb bush. and then by 2017, adams had already begun secretly accepting free luxury trips aboard a turkish airline and heavily discounted suites at the saint regis in istanbul. now that year, he even made a cameo in a turkish romantic comedy where, get this, the main character is asked him for political favors. you can add this piece of tape, which somebody on my team found to the category of things you just have to see to believe. >> you guys. >> are. >> from turkey. >> brooklyn loves turkey. brooklyn is the istanbul of america. we love your food. we love your music. but i don't understand turkish. we can take a selfie. though, right?

>> i mean, look, eric adams may well end up free to run the istanbul of america for years to come. but he was cozying up to turkey long before trump could have even been a factor in any case against him. and we learned this week that he isn't off the hook just yet. former manhattan da cy vance has some unique insight into what could happen next with this case, and he joins me after a very quick joins me after a very quick break. the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now, i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill... that reduces the itch... and helps clear the rash of eczema— ...fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. and some achieved dramatic skin clearance... as early as 2 weeks. many saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections. before treatment, test for tb and do bloodwork.

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trumpland with alex wagner. president trump's first 100 days. watch. >> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> weed and listen. >> staying up half. >> the night. reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> well, as i was just saying, the saga surrounding new york city mayor eric adams isn't over yet. on friday, a federal judge ruled to adjourn the adams trial, but he didn't dismiss the case outright. instead, he appointed a conservative legal star to basically stand in for the government at a hearing next month as he considers his options. now, at the same time, we're also watching the state legal system because even if adams becomes a free man under federal law, manhattan district attorney alvin bragg could still choose to charge adams himself. and joining me now is former manhattan district attorney cyrus vance. it's great to see you. thank you so much for taking the time. i just want to start with the federal case. it seems like it's in a bit of a

gray area. i say this for maybe lay people like myself between being dismissed and not dismissed. so what does judge who's ruling mean for this case against eric adams? >> hi, jen. >> good evening. >> i think what it means is that the judge is making clear that he is taking seriously the decisions that he's being asked to make in connection with this motion to dismiss. right now, you really only have two sides in court, and they're both on the same side. it's the united states attorney's office for the southern district, as well as counsel and mr. adams. and they're both seeking dismissal. but the judge has in the background a series of very strong letters disputing. the factual allegations. that the department of justice has made. and so what judge hall has done, i think very wisely, he said, no, i actually need. >> to. >> have more discussion and more briefing on this. as you say, he's invited paul clement in. it's unclear whether it will be

a hearing at which mr. clement just argues, or whether there will be some discovery provided. >> to paul before. >> the hearing. but in any event, i think the judge says and has said, i'm going to i'm not going to do this from the hip. i'm going to do this carefully. and appointing someone else to argue and explain what arguments legally are on the other side of dismissal is something the judge wants and probably makes sense. >> now we won't know for a bit. this is not until next month what the judge is going to decide. but if he did allow the department of justice to throw out these charges as they want. it's also possible that the manhattan da could decide to file charges of his own. i'm going to just put on the screen what our colleague andrew weissman laid out is the overlapping criminal statutes. you have said in the seat before, obviously, it's obviously up to the current manhattan da on this, whether or not he's going to move forward. but there's a case here, right? or how do you see it? >> well, i. think the analysis from the state perspective at this point is, number one, the

federal government, having determined that it's going to dismiss the case, is, you know, i think is a strong statement that if the manhattan da's office were to initiate an investigation, they would want to feel very comfortable that. they were going in the right direction and on solid ground. i think i've said previously that without suggesting what mr. bragg. >> should or would do. >> as the district attorney. he could open an investigation into essentially the state parallel charges of what the federal investigation charged. there would theoretically be state charges filing a false statements or campaign fraud or theft. i mean, what unmentioned by the department of justice was really i think the gravity of the federal case was the millions of dollars that adams was alleged to have. >> received through. >> straw donors, thereby supporting his campaign. >> by the. >> you know, by the city matching funds program. so it's not a small amount of money. it's not a small case. the da, i

think, would probably feel like it's a huge lift to go and open this case. my guess is he wouldn't receive an open welcome from the federal government to give him access to discovery, so he'd have to build it from the ground up. i'd say it's a very big, very heavy lift, but it's not. but if the statute of limitations haven't run on state charges, he could. not that he should or not that he would. he could start a grand jury investigation. >> the lack of access to discovery. it sounds like an important thing for people to understand, too. or that that potential. let me ask you, i mean, you have lived in new york city for a long time. you care deeply about the rule of law. obviously, given your long background, do you think mayor adams should resign? >> jen, there's what i'd answer that indirectly. you know, i used to walk by the center

street courthouse every day, going to work as the manhattan da. and on the top of that courthouse are inscribed words from george washington from 1789. and they are that the true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government. i think any prosecutor's office who is making decisions about what to do or what to not to do in a case, be it a dismissal of adams case or da bragg considering commencing another case should be guided by that fundamental principle. and i'll leave it for your viewers to decide whether they think the firmest, you know, that the administration of justice is being executed in the manner in which they think is called for. but i you know, i believe that should be the guiding star for any prosecutor who is deciding what to do in this case. and i think judge ho has said, essentially, i hear you. >> all. >> but i'm not yet really sure i have enough information to make the kind of decision that merits

the. severity of this case. the charges are serious. >> the dismissal is highly. >> unusual, and i think taking time for the judge to feel confident in his decision is important. and we as citizens shouldn't do anything other than appreciate the care with which he's making his decision. >> sounds like you take your your even your former job quite seriously. cy vance, thank you so much for joining. i really appreciate it. and coming up, i'm going to introduce you to the most inspiring 14 year old you could ever hope to meet. she's using her voice to stick up for kids all across america, up for kids all across america, and she i'm thinking of updating my kitchen... —yeah? —yes! ...this year, we are finally updating our kitchen... ...doing subway tile in an ivory, or eggshell... —cream?... —maybe bone?... don't get me started on quartz. a big big island... you ever heard of a waterfall counter?... for everyone who talks about doing that thing, and, over there.

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the way, though. a federal judge in maryland blocked trump's attempt to ban medical treatment for trans youth. a conservative judge struck down his directive to withhold gender affirming care from federal prisoners. and in a case over trump's ban of trans service members, a judge said, if you can get an officer to say pronoun usage makes the military less prepared. i'll be the first to buy you a box of cigars. that's a good line with all of this legal back and forth, though, it's too often lost that what we are talking about here is people's lives. so yes, judges are pushing back. governors are pushing back. that's all good. but some very young people with some very powerful voices are pushing back to. >> i want to shed light on who. >> we are as. >> a trans community. trans grown ups. >> are not. >> the 2020. >> blue haired baristas. >> trans kids. aren't just trans because. >> their parents. >> told them to be. trans kids need protection and support so they can feel safe and. >> be themselves. they deserve kindness and support, just like everyone else. and i want to

finish by. saying that we as a community will not stop fighting. >> this fight. >> joining me, i couldn't have done that at 14, that's for sure. joining me now is the student who gave that speech, nero. her mother and attorney, omar gonzalez pagan, who took trump to court in the maryland case that i just mentioned. nero. i had an opportunity to speak to a little bit yesterday, and i just wanted to start by saying that was incredibly brave, what you did. most people can't speak publicly who are my age like that, but what made you want to tell your story publicly? >> we. >> oh, hi. >> hi, nero. go ahead. >> we are very proud. >> of nero. >> yes. >> the impact. >> of her words have touched so. >> many in the community. >> other children. >> and community elders.

>> and we are very proud of her. >> and i can imagine. you are so proud. what? what, mother? i would be incredibly proud. nero. i don't know if you can hear me a little better. i know audio is a little imperfect in television. can you hear me a little better now? >> yes, i can hear you. >> great. i just wanted to ask you. it's so. it's so brave what you did. most people who are much older than you can't speak as well publicly. what made you want to tell your story? >> in light of the recent events, i felt that. >> the trans communities. >> voices were. >> not. >> being heard, and i want to start. by saying that i feel. >> like we. >> should be heard more, and i felt like i should step up and like and project the. >> voice of the trans community. >> you're doing that so powerfully, so, so much better than a lot of people who are running for office are doing. let me ask you a little bit about yourself, because i just said, a lot of people forget when we talk about the courts back and forth. this is people's lives. this is your life. this

is your family's life. what do you like to do in your free time? tell us a little bit about you. >> i love bird watching and drawing and cooking and spending time with my loved ones. >> those sound like things a lot of 14 year olds don't know about bird watching. that's a cool that's a cool thing you're doing. but a lot of things a lot of 14 year olds could definitely relate to. omar, let me ask you, because i think the court aspect of this is something we're all trying to follow and understand. you took trump to court in maryland over his executive order targeting hospitals that offer gender transition treatments to young people, something that is incredibly important. the judge in your case temporarily blocked trump's ban, saying it puts children at extreme risk. where is this now? what happens next? >> yeah. >> thank you jen. >> look, we're fighting. >> for young people like nero in this case. we're fighting for people's rights to. their health and their well-being, their

equality and their dignity. and the. judge in our case, where we represent pflag, a number of families, a number of young adults, as well as an organization of medical professionals agreed with us that this orders are just outside the scope of the president's authority. and not only that, they discriminate. so right now there's a temporary pause on this orders. it has allowed all hospitals to resume care across the country. we just asked the court for a longer pause, a preliminary injunction, and that is being briefed right now this week. so we hope that this pause can remain in place for the duration of this case, where we ultimately hope to prevail. >> let me end with you. you're clearly a proud mother, an amazing mother. what should people watching understand about the impact of nero having the care that she needs? >> well, first. >> of all, it's been quite. >> a process and a journey. and

for nero, and. >> for those. >> of us. >> in. >> her life, it was a night and day difference. once she began receiving this care, she is a happy, confident child and the room lights up. >> when she walks in. >> i can tell that very clearly. nero, i hope you and your mom will come visit me when you're in d.c. the next time. thank you for using your voice to stand up for so, so many other kids out there. >> thank you for. >> having us. thank you so much for joining me. >> thank you. >> we're going to be right back. >> they are trying to shut down this legal loophole to get 100mg

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>> text k. >> to 231231. >> okay, tomorrow is monday, which means two more episodes of our podcast, the blueprint are coming out. and this week i chatted with illinois governor j.b. pritzker for a very wide ranging conversation about the democratic party. i also talked to longtime journalist jemele hill. she covers sports, she covers culture. but she also has a lot to say about politics. she long has, and she had some sharp advice for democrats still trying to figure out how to approach this moment. >> i think that people want to see some real resistance, some real fights and real organizing at the grassroots level. and again, i said this during the election, a lot of democrats would rather die on the sword of nobility than fight. nobility gets you nowhere when the election. >> tell me what you mean about nobility. like, hi. like ivory tower or just.

>> it's very ivory tower. it's very. take the high road. it's very well, i, you know, i at least can say that i, you know, i reached across the aisle or the decorum. they're worried about order and decorum. it's like no one cares about that anymore. >> no one cares. >> and that's how i definitely doesn't care. so why are you trying to play by. you know, to use a sports analogy, you're using an outdated playbook. it doesn't work. >> my conversations with jamal hill was you just saw a clip of and governor jb pritzker dropped tomorrow morning, you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. that does it for me today, but we'll be back here tomorrow night at 8 p.m. eastern. in the meantime, stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc. >> and on this new hour of ayman, the pentagon firings that defy logic happening at a time of serious geopolitical turmoil. plus, trump faces one legal setback after another, b