as they had expected. they had to do overflow rooms for these events. and what sanders was saying to these folks is, you know, don't get so excited about me and don't get so excited about what you're hearing from washington. talk to your member of congress and tell them that very soon, they're going to be debating huge tax cuts for people like elon musk, for very rich people. tell your member of congress you don't want that. and so i think that if they start to hear that, that could have a real impact. >> we'll see. it's still very early days. john nichols, thanks for coming on. always good to see you, my friend. that's going to do it for me today. what a day it's been. deadline. white house starts right now. >> hi there everyone. >> it's 4:00. >> in. >> new. >> york to direct the day to day. >> functioning of the agency responsible for preventing and investigating. >> terror attacks.

>> responding to mass shootings, investigating international drug cartels and gangs, thwarting cyber attacks and arresting violent criminals, and investigating public corruption, among other things. donald trump has tapped a podcaster and right wing media personality who once said this, quote, my entire life right now is owning the libs. that person is named dan bongino. he will be the deputy director of the fbi, the number two at the country's top law enforcement agency. it is a job that does not require senate confirmation. not that republicans have had any objection to any of trump's picks, anyway. but if you're not familiar with bongino, here's a small sampling of the things he's had to say over the years. >> trump is an apex predator. he's the lion king. trump went out there tonight and did what trump does. he's the shark in the ocean. and he acted like it. he lost. no one from his base. no one. >> shame on us if we don't. >> enter the legal. profession and start to pull people out of

the d.o.j. >> i have no. >> problem with donald trump investigating jack smith either. and you. >> shouldn't either. jack smith. >> doesn't have a pardon. >> what happened. yesterday with president trump. >> and the targeting of him and his attorneys. >> by this piece of human scum. >> all of. >> these people targeting him in the justice department that have forfeited any semblance. >> of. >> allegiance and. >> fidelity to the. >> constitutional republic. i do not need power. >> drunk pseudo monarchs, little mini tyrants. >> in. >> my supposedly conservative. >> county, though sending out ridiculous child like amateur. hour edicts. demanding people. wear masks. >> in situations where the. >> risk of transmission is somewhat close to zero. you can take your mask mandate and shove it right up your. >> the karate man i never thought, i never thought i'd have to use it in real life. >> but guess. my thing.

>> reminds me of. >> like, the house, remember? guess who's back by house. geraldo is back. he wants to fight me again. why does this guy always want to fight me? >> why does everybody. >> always want to. >> fight dan bongino? why? why does everybody want. >> to fight me all the time? do i have. >> a punchable face or something? >> oh. >> the conspiracy theories, the outrage, the tightness of the t shirts, all of it surely floats donald trump's boat and is music to his ears. it's likely part of the very essence of the reason he was selected. but the job of deputy director of the fbi, the united states of america, is a serious job that affects every person living here, people around the world. it's the kind of job that has to be done well by whomever does it. if the bureau stands any chance of actually catching real bad guys, as the washington post reports, quote, the deputy director answers to the director serving as the agency's second in command, responsible for day to

day law enforcement operations and all of the fbi's domestic and international investigative and intelligence activities. the fbi has 55 field offices, 60 offices abroad, 38,000 staff staffers, and a budget of $10 billion. managing the day to day affairs of the fbi is a serious responsibility, and traditionally, that post of deputy director of the fbi has gone to a career fbi agent. in fact, the fbi agents association says that in a meeting in january, before kash patel was confirmed, they told patel this, quote, the fbi deputy director should continue to be an on board active special agent. this has been the case for 117 years. for many compelling reasons, including operational expertise and experience, as well as the trust of our special agent population, according to the fbi agents association at the time, kash patel agreed and said that the job should go to a career

fbi agent. now, patel either changed his mind or was overruled, but he's given an already wary workforce. another reason to be suspicious and distrustful of him, and the fbi now has at its helm what the new york times describes this way, quote, the least experienced leadership pair in the bureau's history, donald trump's choice of a pro-trump podcaster to be the number two at the fbi is where we start today. nbc news justice reporter, author of sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system, ryan riley is back. plus, former lead investigator for the january 6th select committee, author of harbingers what january 6th and charlottesville reveal about rising threats to american democracy. he's back. also joining us, former top official at the department of justice. msnbc legal analyst andrew weissman is here. ryan riley, you have some great reporting on how this is being received inside the fbi. tell us about it. >> yeah, i. think a. >> lot of eye.

>> rolls sort of. >> within the fbi. but remember, there is a contingent within. the fbi who is very supportive. of donald trump and some of the moves. >> that he is making. but when, you know, dan bongino was was announced, what my brain immediately went to was actually an interaction that he had with a former fbi special agent who's. >> also now. >> a podcast podcaster, kyle serafin. he's someone who is in very close communication with with kash patel. kash patel foundation before kash patel was fbi director, actually had paid kyle serafin's family along with a couple of other right wing fbi special agents. and there was this this falling out because there's just disagreement about how this mar-a-lago raid was being discussed, because dan bongino accepted the sort of premise that there was something untoward about the mar-a-lago search that the fbi had had messed up there. and kyle serafin looked at those documents and, and said that, no, this is actually really standard operating procedure. so there was this enormous falling out, even though basically dan

bongino was the reason that kyle serafin got onto the radar of kash patel and received that money. that's where he did his first interview, for example, when he was kyle serafin was still this fbi whistleblower. there was this falling out over just basic facts, because, you know, kyle, for everything about him. he's someone who is very much so about, you know, establishing the facts. and the facts were is that this was standard operating procedure, how that search was conducted. the fbi did not have a plot to assassinate donald trump when they searched mar-a-lago, when donald trump was all the way in new jersey. so, you know, you very quickly see this sort of breaking out into a different realm where, you know, you have a deputy director of the fbi now who just doesn't seem very dedicated to the facts based on what you just presented there, and based upon a lot of the rhetoric that we've seen previously. of course, i should say dan bongino is, you know, in his in his in his first appearance, i guess today or last show today was saying that he's now taking on a different role. but within the bureau, there's just, you know, this comes on top of just so much in

the past month plus that has really just rocked the bureau to its core. this isn't going to help that entire situation. nicole. >> andrew weissmann, nbc's reporting, this quote, this is really concerning. any hope that cash could be steered by having experienced leaders around him is out the window. we now have two conspiracy theorists and election deniers running our premier law enforcement and intelligence agency. that is beyond problematic. i think that some of what is public facing, right is investigating crimes that go on to be prosecuted. but some of what i think is opaque to the vast majority of americans is that the fbi is a massive intelligence and national security agency. and national security cases are not cases that are always tried in a courtroom. sometimes no one ever knows the details. but kash patel and dan bongino will also be in charge of that. how will that work? >> well, i.

>> think the idea. >> that you have. >> two people with a grand. >> total of. >> zero zero. >> experience working at the. fbi is it's not just problematic. >> that is, it makes you. >> question whether. >> the goal here. >> is to. >> not have an. >> effective fbi. >> at all, to. basically be. >> hollowing it. >> out from as when you think about what those leaders have to do. one is. >> they. have to. >> inspire people. they have to give confidence. these are. >> public servants who give up. >> a. >> lot. >> and you have to sort. >> of. >> make sure that they feel supported. and that. >> you know, they. >> are rewarded for doing a good job. but you. also need people who can spot key issues. >> who can guide. >> them appropriately. >> and if they don't have experience at the bureau, neither. one of them. i pray that they learn on the job quickly.

>> but that is. >> not what. >> you want in this group and particularly. >> in the national. >> security area area. >> i remember director mueller, who i was the general counsel. >> for. >> and it. >> was a privilege to serve. >> with him. >> i mean, you could feel. every day that he and the deputy director would wait on them. was the idea that that there would be some terrorist. incident here or abroad where people would be hurt, and the. that is such it's important to have that work ethic, but it's important to have that depth of experience, to know where to look and what is. noise and what is real. and that, to me, was the thing that i found remarkable. in watching those two men, as well as andrew mccabe and a host of other people, and the. >> idea that. >> you would pick. >> people who. don't have. >> that skill set. and hope that they get that skill set on. >> the. >> job, is beyond it's just beyond imaginable in terms of

just from an apolitical perspective, what you want in terms of making this country safe. >> tom hafey, how does it affect how the bureau is going to actually function now? >> yeah, nicole, the deputy director, is sort of like the coo of the department, right? the director sets policy and is engaged often in testimony to congress or external affairs. the deputy director traditionally has been the person that sort of ran the day to day business of the bureau. all 55 of those field offices are led by a special agent in charge. and all of those sacs report to the deputy. so the deputy is essentially the supervisor for the sort of nuts and bolts work of the bureau. that's why traditionally, nicole, it has been filled by a person who has a lot of experience with the bureau, with the. right. the domestic investigations and operations guide that governs the standards

by which fbi agents conduct investigations. that's familiar with, as andrew said, the national security side of the house, which doesn't necessarily result in criminal prosecutions, knows how the place works such that he or she can be the conductor, keeping the trains running on time and ensuring information is flowing to the requisite components up the chain, to the director and down from the director on through the bureau, so concerned that it's someone who has no experience with the bureau, who would be thrust into that really operational role. >> i mean, andrew, i'm struck by the fact that the last fbi director, donald trump, handpicked and appointed who was confirmed was christopher wray, who testified in the fall of 2020 that the largest threat that the fbi contained contended with at the time was domestic violent extremism. and inside that bucket, by far the largest group of people were white supremacists. what happened to those threats and how how might

people who are so closely aligned with donald trump respond to that? >> well, i think. >> we are seeing that with respect to the january 6th investigations, and. >> the january. >> 6th defendants is just one microcosm. and i'm just to be clear. >> i'm not saying that every. >> january 6th defendant is a white supremacist or if for that matter. a domestic terrorist. but the message that's. being sent is that the people who are criminals, adjudicated criminals of serious offenses, are set free and. >> pardoned. >> and the people who investigated january 6th, which we all saw before our eyes, was something. that was at the time it happened. had bipartisan condemnation, including. eventually by president trump. >> himself, you know, half hearted. >> but at. >> least he. >> sort of forced himself to. >> say the words. but certainly.

>> on the hill. >> was condemned. the people who investigated that at the fbi are. now sort. >> of the hunted. >> this is so backwards. >> it is it is to me. it is just remarkable what is happening to this country. >> the end point of what is going to happen, nicole, is. i think. >> that nothing is going to happen to domestic terrorists who are aligned. >> with the. >> and support the policies. >> of the trump administration. i think that you. >> will see targeting of groups. that are considered. >> sort of on the sort of so-called liberal side, sort of the. >> antifa, black. >> lives matter movements. >> now, granted, obviously, if they violate the law and they engage in violent. >> conduct. >> they should be targeted. but i don't think you're going. >> to see an. >> equal sort of hand here. >> in terms of how people. >> are treated for.

>> conduct, not. >> their. >> first amendment views. >> ryan riley andy mccabe rose to this job, i think, after being involved in terrorist terrorism prevention and prosecutions and cases and russian gangs, and had the respect of his fellow agents. what did don dan what's his name, mr. bongino do before he was a podcaster. >> you know, he was a secret service agent. and, you know, he sort of fell off. i remember seeing him very early on at cpac now, gosh, 15 years ago, right when he was so, so sort of just kicking off this career. and i remember i just actually thought of the two people that i remember seeing at cpac. cpac went in very different directions all those years ago. you know, one of them ended up being charged with seditious conspiracy. the oath keepers founder, stewart rhodes, who was just actually just at the capitol last week. and then dan

bongino is now deputy director of the fbi. and, you know, this was the early obama era when a lot of this sort of right wing movement was really building, right, and exploded in a way that we that we're now seeing, we saw a few years ago during the capitol attack and have seen numerous instances of and, you know, to andrew's point about the targeting of potentially left wing groups, that's just not where the really deadly violence is coming from. and study after study has, has really illustrated that. and, you know, attorney general bill barr was very obsessed with antifa and left wing groups. but that's not primarily what's driving violent extremism. you know, when you talk about body counts for violent extremists, it's just really on one side here, you know, in the past, say 30 years, right? you're not talking about massive terrorist attacks by left wing groups, right? that's something that they actually seek to avoid even back during the weather underground days. back then, there was actually caution taken to try to not actually kill any individuals during a lot of

those bombing attacks. right. but in the modern era, the more the way that we've seen people killed in domestic terrorism incidents has come from the right, that's what's been primarily driving a lot of the, you know, the violence if you really narrow it down. so this notion that you're going to focus on these left wing groups and just have a different standard of justice is really quite incredible, especially, you know, if you're talking about d.c. itself, where there's the us, the acting u.s. attorney or the interim u.s. attorney and the nominee to be the permanent top federal prosecutor in the district of columbia is ed martin, someone who is a stop the steal organizer and supported a lot of those january 6th defendants correctly. in fact, you know, today, he referred to himself as one of the president's lawyers and is on some of the documents trying to keep the ap from being able to cover the white house, which is a little bit of an unusual move for him there. so i think there's a lot, you know, that's being set up here in the that's going to be playing out over the next several months about just what the standard of justice is. and there appears to just be a primary focus on not groups that

are not supportive of, of donald trump and just a different standard of justice. even when you talk about going after sitting members of congress and writing them letters, that might really sort of suppress their free speech rights. >> unbelievable moment. we want to thank andrew weissmann for starting us off. ryan and tim stick around a little bit longer with us still ahead, what has been a tense couple of days for lawmakers, at least the ones face to face with their constituents. republicans now getting an earful on one topic more than just about anything else. we'll show it to you. plus, an astonishing dismissal at the very top of the american military chain of command. more shocking, however, was the apparent reason for the purge in the first place. we'll tell you about that. and later in the broadcast, french president emmanuel macron fact checking donald trump at the white house in real time to his face on the topic of ukraine. we have all those stories and more still those stories and more still coming up on pronamel clinical enamel strength can help us to keep our enamel for a lifetime.

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>> veteran lawyers. andrew weissman. >> and mary mccord. >> break down the latest developments inside the trump administration's department of justice. >> the administration doesn't. >> necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. >> new episodes drop every tuesday. >> what we do is try to cut right to the bone of what we're seeing in washington that day. >> i don't think anyone who's been watching the last four weeks could say they are taking pollack's politics out of the law enforcement process. quite contrary. they are engaging in the very politicization and weaponization that they claim to be trying to eliminate. >> some people watching. >> this. >> interview say. >> you were always against the president. of course you're saying these things. >> well, it's true that i've never voted for donald trump. my concern about the use of law enforcement to achieve political ends. that's among the reasons i've never voted for president trump. but at the end of the

day, people can support whatever candidate they want. i would hope that nearly everybody would agree, as a basic matter, that our criminal justice system shouldn't be used as a tool of politics to reward friends and punish personal enemies. >> an extraordinary thing for anyone to have to say out loud, especially someone who is the former acting attorney general under president george w bush. that was peter keisler on 60 minutes last night. joining our coverage is alexis loeb. she's a former federal prosecutor. as deputy chief of the unit that prosecuted capitol riot cases, she supervised many of the january 6th cases. ryan and tim are still with us. i want to ask you, alexis, just to take me inside, what the dismantling of large chunks of the department of justice means for its ability to prosecute and hold accountable other crimes. i think. >> we're still.

>> seeing those effects unfold. but. >> you know. >> one one effect that comes to mind is that i think that the prosecutors who are still there now need to look over their shoulders. and when they're bringing a case, they'll think about how will the higher ups evaluate this in terms of politics? so will this be a case that the president sees as targeting his enemies or his friends? and they're going to be encouraged to make decisions that way. and that's not how federal prosecutors make their decisions. they are trained to have the be based on the facts and the law. i think, of course, one of the other effects is, you know, what happens when you lose so many career prosecutors, people who are dedicated to and skilled in prosecuting both crimes affecting kind of day to day public safety and also serious national security issues. what what happens when we lose the experience at those levels as well? >> let me go beyond experience

and ask you what happens when people like yourself, who were involved in prosecuting january 6th insurrectionists cases that were in many instances brought to juries and juries of their peers rendered judgment. when that happens on one end and on the other end, are prosecutors prepared to bring up a corruption case against the democratic mayor of new york, eric adams, including folks with very, very solid, extraordinary conservative credentials? what is left if you squeeze out people who aren't comfortable dropping a case where the facts aren't in question and you punish people who brought cases and in every instance prevailed in front of jury trials, what's left? >> i mean, it seems like at that point, what would be left are people who are willing to serve the administration's political priorities and make decisions with that kind of as their lodestar. you know, that said,

even though we have seen a lot of firings and resignations in the early days of the justice department, and i agree that that's troubling. there are still are career prosecutors there who are trying to do justice day in and day out and are trying to are trying not to make not to have politics drive their decisions. >> i mean, tim hafey, i guess i pressed on that because i think we've been lulled into this belief that someone will save us. and i know that folks close to merrick garland believe that the good people at the department would hold the line. well, once the good people are introduced to the line by emil bove and pam bondi, they are shown the door if they refuse to cross it. so what is left of the department are people who either haven't run up against the line yet, or are willing to cross it in something that does not resemble justice at all. what happens now? >> yeah, precisely. right. nicole, look what peter keisler

articulated in that interview as a republican former acting attorney general is the rule that's been applied forever by republican and democratic attorneys general. i've told you the story of when i was appointed a u.s. attorney and finally had a chance to meet with president obama. the first thing he said to us was, you're not my lawyers. don't for a minute think about what's best for obama, what's best for the administration. do what's best for the people of your district. that's been the ethic of the department, regardless of the party that controls for years. and if that goes away, that's really troubling. i think the intention here, nicole, is not just to attributively fire people that have worked on investigations against the president's political enemies, but send a message to others, to the people that worked with alexis down the hall, that they need to look over their shoulder, and they need to not pursue justice based on the facts and the law, but pursue the president's agenda. that is

a new frontier that fundamentally alters the nature character of the justice department. and the government should not be making these decisions based on politics. they should be making these decisions based on fact and law. and the last point i'll make, nicole, is if you're making decisions that are impermissible factors, there are all these things that aren't getting done. the opportunity cost here is huge. all of these cases that are not prioritized are going to fall by the wayside. and that threatens public safety. >> i mean, to me, as someone who investigated did the congressional investigation, which was a lot more sort of accessible to the to the public with different purposes. what what does it mean that the justice department and the fbi have been purged of anyone with sort of expertise and anyone who prosecuted or investigated the biggest sort of tv crime and the

largest investigation in doj history. what signal does that send to the criminals? >> yeah, it emboldens them, nicole. precisely. look, if you believe as i do, that criminal consequences, convictions deter bad behavior, then the excuse of criminal conduct arguably encourages bad behavior. so it sends a horrible message to the men and women of law enforcement, u.s. attorney's offices and the fbi, and to the country writ large. i think we're dealing in this country with a lot of cynicism about government, about this allegation that government doesn't work for people. and when government starts to make decisions based on politics as opposed to on the merits, we exacerbate the cynicism. and as i said, we get less safe because there are a lot of righteous things that need to be done by the fbi, by federal prosecutors, that because they are looking into these retributive investigations and prosecutions, are not going to get done. and that is extremely threatening to

our community safety and the rule of law. >> alexis, are you worried about retribution against you for your role in prosecuting cases and directing cases against january 6th insurrectionists? >> well, it's hard to miss the fact that one of the attorney generals very first actions was to start a weaponization working group that was going to look at a series of investigations that were unpopular with the trump administration, including the january 6th, including the january 6th investigation. so i think that we have yet to see what that weaponization working group is going to do. but that retribution, as tim said, does seem to be a priority of the administration, potentially at the expense of making people's lives safer on a day to day basis. focusing on local crime, focusing on national security. and, you know, on that front, i

would like to add that i'm i'm also concerned for everyone's safety, because when you have leaders at organizations like the fbi who have espoused conspiracy theories, those are the people who we are trusting to evaluate what is a true threat, to be able to evaluate facts. and when they see a threat, to be able to inspire agents to go into dangerous situations and to educate others on the nature of the threat so that we can stop it. so i think that that's a particular fear today that i'm thinking about, really, for all americans. >> i mean, we have something in front of us where where it's even more nuanced than that, right? i don't think anyone in new reporting confirms that even donald trump believes that the threat of iranian retribution for the hit on soleimani is real. i think it's even if they believe in the fact of that, they've gone along with donald trump's decision to remove security details for donald trump's last secretary of state and cia director mike pompeo,

his last head of national security, john bolton. it's not even making sure they believe the facts and the intelligence as presented to them. it's the worry that if the person threatened by those things is no longer an ally, they won't be protected. >> yeah. and you know, not only that, but a lot of these conspiracy theories that they've they've expressed, i think they need to find some sort of justification for. right. so even if they can't prove these, which they won't be able to do, because a lot of the conspiracy theories are just absurd, right? so they're not going be able to find something, but they have to find someone who said something. and we saw this sort of in the first trump term, i think, when we saw targeting of individuals who maybe were a little uncareful in some messages that they sent. right. i think that we could see a simple pattern like that before just targeting of doj employees or fbi employees or whoever is sort of, you know, on their list of people that they don't like, even if they're not able to prove these underlying conspiracy theories, they'll find some nugget that they can sort of blow up and make into

this sort of media circus and have a lot of willing participants on that on capitol hill and sort of just stir up some sort of controversy around that and purport to have found something that was untoward or wrong. right. so i think that that's probably what we can expect, that, you know, even if they're going to go in and say, okay, actually, the fbi didn't set up january 6th, for example. they'll find some communication that they're just going to zero in on and blow that up into a big scandal. and you'll have a lot of republicans on the hill who will be, you know, willing to go along with that. and there are just so many threads that they've thrown out there about january 6th itself, because their their counter narrative has been changing over the course of these several years, where initially we went from a universe where there was pretty widespread agreement that january 6th was bad to we went to this whole different, you know, universe that we live in now, where even though polling shows that most americans oppose the pardons for really violent january 6th offenders, there's still this enormous contingent of americans who believe sort of just patently absurd and ridiculous conspiracy theories about january 6th itself. and

that's, i think, what they're going to be exploiting or finding something to sort of feed the beast, to bring to the president and say, hey, look what we found, and blow it up into a big media event. i just think that's kind of inevitable, what we're going to see coming down the line. there is still a majority of americans, though, open to the facts. and what's remarkable, as i listen to all of you and, and i think the reality of what we're in for sinks in with the selection of dan bongino, the fake weaponization committee that the republicans did for performative purposes, has an echo in the need for an actual one. when you've got lifelong republicans walking out of the department, when you've got former clerks for scalia, kavanaugh, and roberts walking away from the weaponization of the prosecution of eric adams for a quid pro quo over immigration, it certainly calls for a movement like what you were a part of. tim hafey and i wonder, i wonder if there's any sort of stirring. i

know they're in the minority, but there are certainly things that could could be done. alexis, i want to thank you for speaking out. i know from covering trump for nine years that people like yourself using the platform you still have, which is your voice, does a whole lot of good and informing people and speaking for people who can't speak. alexis ryan and tim hafey, thank you. up next, for us republican lawmakers who have stood by donald trump and elon musk's slash and burn to the ground approach to federal government agencies and spending are now facing very angry voters, many of them republican angry voters, as donald trump insists, there's nothing to see here. much more to come. don't go anywhere.

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the most powerful clean in any universe, tide. lookin good. thank you. well at least it's on time. see captain america: brave new world. a lot of americans, is elon musk. yes. how can we be represented by you if you don't have a voice in congress? >> i'm a. >> registered republican. >> voter. >> and retired active army officer. how can. >> you tell me that doge. with some. college whiz kids from a computer terminal in washington, dc without even getting out into the field? after about a week or maybe two, has determined that it's okay to cut veteran's benefits. >> when are. >> you going to wrest control as the congress back from the executive and stop hurting your

constituents? >> are you willing to use your subpoena power to act to say, trump or sorry, musk, come in here, stand in front of congress and answer some hard questions. >> when will you stand up to them and say that is enough? >> we could have gone on and on. that was just a sampling of what's happening. you know what? we should go on and on. let let me do some more. this is sound from wisconsin. >> i saw you on tv. >> we're going to pull up more. there is more of that. and the point is you don't have to look very far. here it is. here's what's happening in wisconsin. >> president trump has issued a lot of executive orders. >> i think. >> by and large, this is moving very quickly compared to other administrations. and i think across the board he's done some very good things. i think he.

>> we know. >> he's gotten. >> rid of birthright citizenship. >> oh. >> no question illegal as hell. >> boos from republicans for republicans. and as i said, there's more republicans in congress are right now facing voters in their own party and democrats and independents who are very angry when they go home to their neighborhoods and communities and home districts. it comes after elon musk slashing the federal government programs and workforce, imperiling jobs and programs, and in some cases, subsidies that their constituents have come to rely on and rapidly intensifying and concentrating all of the power in america's system of government. inside the oval office, the new york times is reporting that one constituent of texas republican congressman pete sessions cautioned him at a recent town

hall by saying this quote, i like what you're saying, but you need to tell more people. the guy in south africa is not doing you any good. he is hurting you more than he's helping you, he added, referring to musk. trump on friday was asked about the bubbling grassroots outrage over trump and musk's policies. here's what he had to say. >> some members. >> of congress in red districts are facing pushback from voters in town halls. >> they don't like. >> the. >> work of elon. >> musk and these other actions. what do. >> you say to them? >> who do you work for? >> i work for abc news. >> no wonder. let me just tell you. let me just tell you. that i have today the highest poll numbers i've ever had. i have today the highest poll numbers of any republican president ever. >> trump to republican voters, you know, eat it. joining our conversation, msnbc columnist, author of the newsletter to the contrary, charlie sykes. also joining me at the table, distinguished political scholar and professor at princeton

university, msnbc political analyst eddie glaude, charlie sykes. it has not just echoes of the tea party, but all the makings of a movement that is grassroots. and once it burns, it burns completely out of control of any republican leaders. >> you know, i was thinking the exact. same thing that. >> that scene you had from glenn grothman town hall meeting was interesting because glenn glenn represents a very republican district, and i can tell you that those scenes are not typical. that's not the kind of reception he's used to getting, but also he's been around in politics enough to remember back in 2009, when in fact, the first bubbling up of the tea party was in town hall meetings like this. and i think that what you're going to see is although initially you're going to have a lot of focus on elon musk, if republicans in congress move ahead with some of the budget cuts that they are talking about, i think you're going to see this spread rather dramatically, because right now,

i mean, over the last month, this has been a washington based story, and it's about to become a district level story all across the country. and again, republican politicians recognize a grassroots movement because they benefited from it in 2009. and it's got to be kind of a strange mirror image watching it turn on them right now. >> what's amazing is that this can't be confused with what i think people have been thinking. the resistance of trump's presidency is going to look like this wasn't in anyone's script. this can't be manufactured. these are republicans who understand that trump has already backtracked on the price of eggs by saying, quote, it's hard to make things go down. this is trump who has backtracked on economic pain by saying people may suffer in the short term. this is trump doubling down with helping billionaires like elon musk and his cohort. and already after four weeks saying, i don't know about those things that you

voted me to do. >> i'm trying. >> to wrap my mind. >> around it. nicole. i can't quite understand what direction it's going. >> to go, what. >> politics. orienting how the politics will play out. because where do these people go? right? right. do they not vote for the republican representatives? they vote for a maga republican who runs from the right. do they vote for a never-trump? >> i don't know where they. >> land as a political act after this. and, you know, we've been talking about what would be the how will the. bannon elon musk fight cash out and what i was listening for in a lot of these town halls is that it felt like a bannon critique in some ways. >> a little bit. but but but i mean, there's something there's something about becoming there's something about the weakness of it. right. which you hear from them. and again, this to me restores my faith in the ability of information to flow in and out of the silos. and i'm not saying they believe me. i'm not saying these voters are going to turn on msnbc and take my word

for it, but they see republicans as abdicating their roles. they see them and they'll render their own judgments. and i agree with you that because these are people that do want people in this country illegally who commit violent crimes, deport it. right. these are people who do not. they are cheering the executive orders banning trans kids from sports. right? these are not necessarily harris biden voters, but they are people who are angry enough at trump to show up and yell at the republican members of congress. >> yeah, i agree with that. so, you know, i think that that there's abandoned strand. yeah. right. and then there are folks who are actually kind of calculating the human cost, right? that folks, this is not just like a layoff in a particular town. you know, what's happening in georgia. that's the cdc 750 probation or, you know, probation workers have been laid out, laid off. so it has a local impact. but what i'm. trying to think through, though, nicole, is what. >> does it. >> what does it look like. they they supported the deconstruction of the administrative state. i mean. >> what. >> did they think. >> that their district. >> so then it turns to, oh.

they're selfish. >> so i. would i'm okay with it as long. >> as it happens. >> to them. but once it happens to me and mine, all hell breaks loose. what are you doing? how are you helping? you're hurting us. >> and so i'm trying. >> to figure out. >> going back to. >> my first. >> point. >> i don't know how it cashes out politically. >> because. >> elements of it seem to be part of the problem. part of the problem. >> yeah, yeah. no, no, i when emergency strikes, first responders are the first ones in... but on outdated networks, the crucial technology they depend on, is limited. that's why t-mobile created t-priority... ...the only solution built for the 5g era, that can dynamically dedicate up to 10 times the capacity for first responders. t-priority. built for tomorrow's emergencies. ready today. (♪♪) (vo) explore the world the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegant small ships

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you on why this matters. i mean, i think that what the republicans have displayed in the last five weeks is a complete abdication of every single one of their functions as members of the senate and the house. right. the senate doctors voted for rfk people who are now sending out tweets about getting vaccinated. you had a chance to make sure that your constituents got vaccinated, and it meant voting against rfk jr. you didn't do that. i mean, you had you had a chance for republicans to say that you're the party of national security by opposing people who don't embody those values when they were before you sat face to face and to see them now getting it on the other end, to have misread their constituency is fascinating, because you cannot put the genie back in the bottle once your constituents feel betrayed. >> well, up until now, they've been more afraid of donald trump than they have been of their own voters. and we'll see whether or not that changes. but this is a

this is a key point. everything that's happening right now could have been blocked by a senate that took its advice and consent responsibilities seriously. it would only take a handful of senators to have blocked rfk or tulsi gabbard, who only take a couple of senators to say no. kash patel crosses a red line and they wouldn't do it. so now they have a dan bongino. they have the threat to vaccines. and unless members of the house and the senate reevaluate their priorities, they may have a budget that has massive cuts to medicaid. and i want to go back to a point that that eddie made about he was hearing sort of the bannon versus musk tension there. and that's very real in that town hall meeting in districts like glenn grothman, where people may be against the welfare state and may be, you know, side with republicans on cultural cultural issues. but as steve bannon has pointed out, a lot of those maga voters rely on things like medicaid and many of these other programs that are on

the chopping block. and so it's one thing when they might be enjoying the theater of watching elon musk break things, when it's in their own community or when they realize, wait, that's the check that i rely on, that i can't get my i can't get my veterans help line call answered. i'm worried about my veterans benefits. i'm i can't get my social security question answered and my medicaid might be cut. that's that's a real problem for republican representatives. they're going to be hearing a hell of a lot about that in places like rural wisconsin, like you just heard a few minutes ago. >> and it's more than that, though. it's more because i think that trump would try to convince them that he can turn those things back on. it's deeper than that. it's a peanut farmer in georgia who didn't necessarily associate with usaid larger mission, but knew that a usaid program bought his peanuts. right. it's other farm subsidies. it's other products that were part of sort of the

fabric of what democratic and some of these folks have been usaid contractors for decades, because democrats and republicans supported basic humanitarian functions. and so i think the ripples have just begun. and they go beyond just mantle. they've just begun. i want to show you what's been ignited on the other side. these are democratic constituents at a democratic town hall of congressman paul tonko. >> i saw you on tv. >> i know i saw. >> you on tv at the. >> department of education. what i'm saying is this. somebody asks you what your red line was, and you said. you said that the time is always right to go. does that mean the red line has already been crossed? yes. why? because i think it has. if you ask us to show up, congressman tonko, we will show up in. thanks. thank covid-19. we have

to take the gloves off. he can't lift the protocol. they're not playing by the rules. >> exactly. >> yes. >> we have to take it to them. what did i say to you? that those pictures that i saw you next to maxine. waters again? i was so proud that my representative was on the front line right there. but i thought about jimmy carter, and i thought about john lewis, and i know what john lewis would have done. he would have gotten arrested that day. >> yes. >> make them. make them outlawed. you. we will stand behind you. we will be there with you. i will get arrested with you. >> so donald trump has made good trouble. great. again? >> yeah. i mean, i think that that that that's. >> an. >> expression of a of a frustration with civility, a frustration with the kind of calmness and, and a kind of

performative politics. you know, we're just going to act like we're angry. if these folks are an existential threat to democracy, then, damn it, act like it. and i think that's what we're seeing across the country, as opposed to we're going to keep fighting these empty kind of performative gestures, as it were, or words or rhetoric that doesn't really translate into an answer. are you really, really fighting for me? >> i mean, i think what was instructive is that the base of the democratic party and the base of the republican party are in the same place. yeah, they're in overcrowded town halls saying we want something different, or in the case of the democratic town hall saying, we want what we see you doing outside the halls of congress in front of these buildings protesting. >> yeah. and i think that's why these town hall meetings are, are so, you know, interesting. and i think they're important even more so maybe than, than the mass demonstrations. i mean, you know, i had two reactions to that, though, one positive and one cautionary. number one, you know, there's been a lot of speculation that the resistance was completely demoralized, that people were tuning out and turning off after after trump's

election. i think you're seeing them becoming reengaged. i think that if anyone thought that they were going to go away, that's not going to happen. but number two, keep in mind that donald trump and kash patel and peter hegseth want nothing more than to have civil disobedience that allows them to use the power that they have right now. donald trump would like nothing more than to invoke the insurrection act, and to be able to tell a maga fight, pentagon to do whatever it is he wants. so i do think that this is a moment where i understand the emotion. but keep in mind, from donald trump's point of view, if there is any sort of violence or if it crosses the line, he will weaponize that. that is not a reason not to protest. it is not a reason not to make good trouble. it's it is a reason to understand what the playing field is right now and what donald trump is prepared and now empowered to be able to do.

>> i think people have heard that loud and clear. i think what's new, though, is hearing hearing an actual constituent hearken to the history of quote, i thought about jimmy carter. i thought about john lewis. to think about the history of protest that comes from the grassroots and not just solutions that come from washington. but i agree with you on all that. charlie sykes, thank you for spending time with us. edie sticks around through the next hour. ahead for us, the late night purge at the late night purge at the pentagon. more hate and extremism in the united states are on the rise. in fact, there are more than 1400 hate groups in our country today. groups that vilify others for their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity. and extremist groups that spread dangerous conspiracies and encourage violent acts. this is a dark chapter in our history, but it can be rewritten. since 1971, the southern poverty law center has been fighting has been fighting hate and defending justice and equality in the u.s. but we can't do it without support from people like you.

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picky eating with every healthy, tasty bite and. >> the evidence. >> wagging tails. >> think about how. full i am with emotion. not just for george floyd, but the many african americans that have suffered the same fate as george floyd. i'm thinking about protests. >> in. >> my country. tis of thee, sweet land of liberty. the equality expressed. >> in our declaration of independence and the constitution. that i've. >> sworn my adult. >> life to support and defend. >> and thinking about a. >> history of racial issues.

>> and my own experiences. >> that. >> didn't always sing of liberty and equality, and thinking about how my nomination provides some hope, but also comes with a heavy burden. >> hi again everybody. it's 5:00 in new york. in the wake of george floyd's murder, the man you just heard from, general charles brown junior, known as general cq brown, delivered that message about how complicated his feelings were in the moment about being an african american man in this country and a member of the united states military. just a few months prior, general brown had been nominated by donald trump to be the next chief of staff for the us air force. and three years after that, very different president of a different party, president joe biden, nominated him to the role of chairman of the joint chiefs, the united states military's top officer. however, general brown was late friday night fired by donald trump without any reason given, and before his four year term was

up. illuminating reporting in the new york times reports that trump never got over that video we just played you of general brown. it's something he recorded in the wake of the murder of george floyd. and in trying to understand this decision, let's listen to what the man who now sits atop the defense department, pete hegseth, said a few months ago. >> the dumbest phrase on planet. >> earth in the military is our diversity is our strength. >> we got a fire. >> you know, you got to fire the chairman of the joint chiefs. >> and you got to fire this. >> you know, obviously. >> you can bring in a new. >> secretary of. >> defense. but any general that was. >> involved. >> general, admiral. >> whatever that was. >> involved in any of the. >> die woke. >> he's got. >> to go. >> any general involved in that has got to go. that wasn't it, though. he wrote a book. it was published last year. and he says this of general brown's promotion to chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. quote, was it because of his skin color or his skill? will never know, but always doubt which on its

face seems unfair to cq, but since he has played the race card one of his biggest calling cards, it doesn't really much matter. general brown's firing was part of a friday night purge of military brass that trump and pete hegseth deemed unable to carry out donald trump's agenda. the first woman to ever lead the navy, admiral lisa franchetti, and general james slife, the vice chief of staff at the air force, were also fired, along with three jags. judge advocate general of the army, navy and air force. one of our next guests, stephen loper, who served as deputy legal counsel to the joint chiefs of staff, puts it like this quote lying beneath the flowery pentagon press release and official social media posts praising the officers for their service are sinister, reckless motives that should scare every american. a desire to remove any legal guardrail that might prevent the military from doing the president's bidding without question, and a total lack of

understanding of how military leaders are made and what military leaders do. but some are calling a friday night massacre at the u.s. military is where we start. the our pentagon correspondent for the new york times, helene cooper, joins us. she's byline on that new york times reporting. we read from. also joining us, as we mentioned, retired u.s. air force major general stephen loper, who was a deputy judge advocate general in the air force and retired u.s. marine corps lieutenant colonel, founder of democratic majority action pac. amy mcgrath is here. edie. still with us. helene, take us through the reporting. >> hi, nicole. >> thanks for having me. >> you know, the i sat down on saturday. >> friday night. >> was crazy. as we got the news. we'd been sort of anticipating. >> this for a while. >> and i sat down. >> on. >> saturday and. watched that video that you opened the segment with again. and i. >> watched it about. >> 4 or 5 times because i wanted to make sure that there wasn't

anything in there where in which so easy to call where general brown had gone. off on a more of a, a pro-diversity rant. and there wasn't. the video that you played is a very personal story. it runs for four minutes and 49 seconds in which he is talking about his own life as an african american fighter pilot in the air force. he talks about how he he going to schools, elementary school with his sister, where they were the only two black kids in the in the whole school. and he felt like he didn't they didn't fit in. and then he talks about how when he was at a school with 50% minorities, he still felt like he didn't fit in. he talks about how when he was in the air force, he had black friends who came up to him and said, why are you hanging out with your squadron members? most of them, they're all white.

instead of hanging out with us, he talks about just, you know, traveling, trying to navigate these two worlds. and it's not the sort of thing that most people would find offensive, but it did really, really anger both president trump, because when it landed right after this in the middle of like on june 4th, i think it was like a few days after the george floyd killing, it electrified the pentagon at the time, the rank and file and also the officers and they it started in the middle of you just cast your mind back to that time four years ago. five years ago. we're in the middle of this big, huge social justice movement. and trump was very, very angry about these black lives matter protests that were going on in the streets. he was angry, already angry at his pentagon, at his chairman of the joint chiefs of staff at the time, mark milley, and even his defense secretary, who had been much more pliable than the one before, mark esper, who standing

who both stood up to him and said, no, you can't use the insurrection act to put active duty military on the streets against these black lives matter protesters. and he felt that he was being stymied. and then cq brown, who he had just nominated to be the air force chief, comes out with this video, which on the face of it is pretty innocuous, but it really angered trump and it really angered the, the, the maga, the maga world. and when pete hegseth starts writing in his book and what he wrote in his book the war on warriors, that cq brown needed to be fired because he said the quote was, and you just read that out loud. he said he has made race. his biggest calling card is that video he's talking about. >> is it true though? i mean, what is he known for among the military men and women? helene? >> no, it's not it's not true. i

mean, it's. >> never true if you. >> brown is still the same person who who trump nominated as the air force chief of staff in 2020. before he made that that video. there's one other thing that the that some of the trump allies and the hegseth allies point to, and that's a 2022 memo in which the air force cq brown, the air force secretary at the time, frank kendall, and other officials made ask that the applicant pool, not the people who were actually hired, but that they asked that the applicant pool, the people who actually applied, be more reflective of america, and they put numerical targets. they wanted african americans, they wanted asian americans, they wanted women. and they didn't meet any of those. they didn't meet those goals, but they wanted to make more of an effort to reach out to more underserved, underrepresented communities that the pentagon

and the trump people didn't like that as either. but that's it. you know, you noted earlier that when the on friday night, when the notice finally came out that cq brown was being fired, there's nothing there's no reason given. it's just, you know, when you talk to the trump people afterwards and when we talk to them afterwards, they all say it's because the president wanted his own team. he wanted to bring his own people in. well, the military is supposed to be like the fbi. it's not supposed to be the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. it's supposed to be a position that spans both, you know, two administrations so that you have that level of continuity, continuity, and that you're also able to credibly say that the american military is apolitical. you're not going to become president and then fire all the democrats in the military. that would be, you know, that's you know, it's the same similar to the fbi. but president trump, i guess, does not really necessarily see it that way. >> steve. senator jack reed

making some of those points, tying friday night's purge to the fbi choices. let me play that for you. >> they put kash patel as the fbi director. >> who is a. >> partizan who. >> has no, i think, respect. >> for the. >> traditions of neutrality of the fbi. and now they've turned to dod, and they want everyone in dod to be holding to the president, not to the constitution. >> they want. >> everyone there to do what they're told, regardless of the law. what was also startling over the weekend was firing. >> all the. >> advocate generals of the military. if you're going to break the law, the first thing you. do is you get rid of the lawyers. it is it's the beginning of a very, very serious degradation of the military and politicization of the military. >> steve, your thoughts? >> well, i agree with senator reed.

>> this is not unprecedented. >> general officers, when you are given your stars, after. >> you earn your stars. >> know that at. >> any time the president. can ask. >> for you to give those. >> stars back. >> and so these events on friday night are not unprecedented. but what is unprecedented is the fact that all of these general officers, flag. >> officers. >> share one. >> thing in common, and that is either a. lack of connection with the ideology, the political. >> and social ideology. >> of this administration. >> or they are perceived as. products of that ideology. that ideology, of course. being diversity. >> i served for 35. >> years in the air force, and. i had a. >> front row. >> seat to the evolution. >> of the military. >> in terms of its diversity. it didn't start with cq brown. it

started arguably with harry truman when he desegregated the military 75. >> years ago. >> last year, and it continued. on through allowing women. >> to go to the service academies. >> i happened to be the a member of the last class of all male cadets at the air force academy, and it continued even beyond that to. don't ask, don't. tell repeal, which occurred almost 15 years ago. and i happen to be part of the comprehensive review working group at the pentagon that studied the issue of allowing gays to serve openly in the military, and reported to the president and the secretary of defense. the time was right to repeal don't ask, don't tell. so it's not a question of whether we should promote or oppose diversity in the military. it is a fact that the military is diverse. and what general brown is noted for being

able to do very effectively as a military leader is to understand that diversity and to take care of his people. >> by respecting their. >> diversity and understanding their diversity, and basically leveraging his understanding of their diversity to making them the most effective fighting. force that. >> we can produce. >> steve, talk about the targeting and firing of the jag officers. why was that so essential to the to turning the pentagon into a more political institution? >> well, what really bothers me about that whole situation is what secretary hegseth said over the weekend in in providing his rationale for his decision to remove the three judge advocates general, and he basically referred to them as roadblocks. judge advocates what what secretary hedge is trying to do

is presumably create a warrior ethos or restore a warrior ethos that he believes has somehow been lost in the military. and part of that warrior ethos, apparently, is that jags should not be permitted to serve as roadblocks on the battlefield. there are several problems with that. the roles. >> of jags. >> on the battlefield are really two. the first and one of the and perhaps the most important is that we provide advice to commanders on the legal limits of the application of military force. there are u.s. laws and international laws that do govern the effective prosecution of military power on the battlefield. and the second role of a jag is to administer the military justice system. again, we serve as advisors. >> to commanders.

>> on issues having to. >> do with. >> violations of those laws, and commanders decide whether or not to punish people who are guilty of violating those laws, punish them under the ucmj, and inherent in both of those roles is the jags role in identifying and distinguishing between lawful and unlawful orders. and if you don't have jags on the battlefield, if you fire, if you decapitate the military legal system by removing the judge advocates general, then the message that you're sending to jags, to commanders, to all the military troops who serve is that we're we're not going to listen to jags anymore. and frighteningly, an extension of

that is that we're not going to follow the law anymore. >> amy, it's so haunting to hear it out loud. but this is not a new phenomenon for hegseth and trump. hegseth is a fox news weekend morning show anchor, championed trump's intervention in the military justice system during his first presidency. >> well, that's right. and i wrote a piece in the first trump administration about his pardoning war crimes and the message that that. sends to the troops who are serving. it's the same message. you can commit crimes on the battlefield and not be held accountable. and again, that's. >> a scary proposition. >> i want to bring amy mcgrath in on this. amy, what are you hearing from folks inside the pentagon?

>> yeah, well, first. >> of all, this is. >> really, really dangerous. and as the general. >> just said, you know, and i'm glad that we're actually talking about it, because a lot of us, especially in the security world, we don't we didn't want to talk about this for a long time. remember, nicole, during the last trump administration, trump asked the secretary of defense why he could not shoot protesters in the leg using our military. and we had a secretary of defense then who was a man of honor who basically said, mr. president, we cannot do that. what is he doing now with this purge? and let's call it a purge. it's a litmus test. it's a purge. it's a personal loyalty test. he wants to replace these leaders with people who are more loyal to him than to the constitution. and i think we need to discuss the fact that if you replace leaders who will then be more inclined to use the military, perhaps against our own people, which i never thought i would say this. and

then, as the general just pointed out, you replace the jags. those are the lawyers that would then say, hey, you can't do this. you replace them, put them new people in who could now justify these unethical, potentially illegal orders, justify them as legal. that is a move in the wrong direction. and it's something that every american needs to be worried about right now. >> i want to press you on that. there is a very clear sign that americans have received the memo that a lot of what's happening is not what they thought they were going to get. some of us feel like we tried to warn them, but that's for another day. i would ask all of you to stick around. i have to sneak in a quick break. we'll have much more from everyone here on the purge friday night at the pentagon. and the dangerous things that put in motion. also ahead, three years after russia's invasion of ukraine, donald trump and his most senior aides refuse to publicly blame

vladimir putin for what vladimir putin did started the war in ukraine. today, the president of france came to washington to try to save decades of alliances. tell you how that went later in the hour. and some breaking news to tell you about. a judge has temporarily denied the associated press's request to reinstate their access to events happening at the white house. in a hearing this afternoon, the trump appointed judge, trevor mcfadden, asked for a fuller briefing before he makes a final decision on whether to order the government to rescind their access. all over the ap's unwillingness to call the body of water bordering several southern u.s. states the gulf of america. deadline. white house america. deadline. white house continues after a quick a chewy order is on the way for radar — who knows that sounds means... kibble... squeaky toy... ...and birdseed. delivered fast — at prices everyone loves. for low prices. for life with pets, there's chewy life, diabetes, there's no slowing down.

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>> in american history. >> reporting from philadelphia. >> el paso. >> in the palisades. >> virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> i'm thinking about my air force career, where i was often the only african american in my squadron or as a senior. >> officer. >> the. >> only. >> african american in the room. i'm thinking about wearing the same flight suit with the same wings on my chest as my peers, and then being questioned by another military member. are you a pilot? and thinking about how i sometimes felt my comments were perceived to represent the african-american perspective when it was just my perspective informed by being african american. i'm thinking about the pressure i felt to perform error free, especially for supervisors i perceive had expected less from me as an african american. i think about having to represent by working twice as hard to prove their expectations and perceptions of african americans were invalid. i'm thinking about the airmen that have lived through similar

experiences and feelings of mine, or who were either consciously or unconsciously unfairly treated. >> eddie. >> yeah. you know, as i watched the. >> video, it. angers me and incenses me. >> you know. >> baldwin has this wonderful, powerful, insightful line in many thousands gone that we have to make our faces blank in order to wash away your guilt, that the precondition for us to enter the room is that we have to leave the particularity of who we are at the door, that we're constantly having. >> to prove to. >> people that we are not just. human beings. >> but we're talented. >> that we're that we're that we bring skill sets, that we have capacities and, and people imagine racial justice as. a charitable and philanthropic enterprise, something that they possess. >> to. >> give to us. and when they change their minds, they can take it all back. >> and then we. >> have to prove. >> ourselves again. >> again and again. so you hear his voice. he's trying to come

to terms with the fact that george floyd. right. he has to speak to it because he has to speak to his son. he has to speak to all of those. >> men and women. >> in the service in the air force and the likes of pete hegseth and donald trump find it abhorrent because he refuses to leave his feelings. at the door. and here we are again. nicole again, we talked about. >> it in. >> el paso. we talked about it in in buffalo. we talked about that's the evil. that's that's the consequence. we're here again. >> it's the tragic loop. >> and so my son will have to deal with this nonsense as i have to deal with it. it just incenses. me at every level. >> he said this. i feel the pressure to perform error free. >> yeah. >> you have to prove that you belong in these spaces. by definition. >> i'm an affirmative action baby, and only. reason why you

think that is because of. assumptions about who i am. >> because if it wasn't. >> for affirmative action, i wouldn't be here because of the beliefs and. commitments you have, because of what the country is. right? and there's always this. underlying question of our loyalty to the. >> country of or whether or not. >> we're really americans. >> and all of this nonsense. >> right. >> and you just kind. >> of you just kind of have to, in some ways, keep that intolerable bitterness of spirit. you have to beat it back. right. because these people, these people want to. >> insist that i remain at the bottom of the well so they can. >> be their. >> conception of what it means. >> to be a white american. they require me to be the n word so they can be white. they demand it. >> could you imagine a black man being secretary of defense, who was the subject of a police report in monterey county of an allegation of rape, or rumored by ten of his colleagues at fox

news to be drinking up to and including one hour before air? >> hell no. can you. >> imagine a black. >> man with 34 felony counts. >> being the president of the united states? >> of course not. this is the country by circumstance, by birth, that that that is mine. but it is so deeply, deeply and profoundly flawed. and here. >> we are in. >> the midst of a betrayal once again. and people who look like me. i can imagine lisa franchetti and her family. we have to beat back the bitterness and fight for the country we so desperately want. >> and i guess that's that's the that's where the rubber meets the road. the men and women of the military are as diverse. actually. it's the most diverse workforce in the country, not just in the federal government, but it is the most diverse workforce in the country. and it's being led by a man who says, quote, i reject the idea that our diversity is our strength. what is your read on the morale of the men and women

of the military? >> i it's hard to say because it's still a little early. i can tell you that the people of color in the military are. you're looking at a really low morale. so many of them have talked to me about the desire, both the desire to leave and the determination. in a couple of cases, people i talked to over the weekend that that they would stay, that donald trump was not going to drive them out of the pentagon. you talk about how diverse the military is, and it is 43% people of color, but that is all at it has always been at the lower levels, at the top levels of the military. it has been white male for as long as we can remember. there were a couple of blips in the past where you had colin powell, who's the first black chairman

of the joint chiefs of staff, but up until through the trump administration, you had so few women black, hispanic, asian american in the driver's seat or in positions of power. there was a now kind of infamous photo that was tweeted in october 2019 after donald trump, then president, met with the senior pentagon leadership. and it's a photo of trump with 34 white men. there are no women in that photo. there are no brown people in that photo. and this was the pentagon leadership at the time. soon after that, some months after that, donald trump did promote cq brown to be the air force chief. and then president biden came in the george floyd the george floyd movement started. but then president biden came in and you had for the first time, he appointed lloyd austin to be the secretary of the of defense. lloyd austin was leading the pentagon with

mark milley for the rest of milley's term. and then cq brown was promoted to chairman of the joint chiefs of staff with. a year and a half about a year and four months ago. so for the first time in its history, you had the 1.3 million active duty troops of the american military being led by two black men. and at that point, i think a lot of the trump allies and a lot of the right wing republicans who make up the trump base really didn't like that. i think they went in some ways nuts. and that's when you started hearing so much about woke and about diversity being suddenly now it's a bad thing. it's just it's sad. but i think the morale at the pentagon is like among the young men and women who make up our military. it's i don't think it's going to be i don't think it's very high right now. the people i've talked to, maybe

that's self-selecting. i don't know, the people i talked to have been pretty upset about it. but there also seems to be some kind of determination that they're not going to just drop everything and walk away, which i think is pretty interesting to the time. what we will know how what kind of effect this has with recruiting with when we see the recruiting numbers in the months to come. >> amy mcgrath, i want to give you the last word, and i just want to broaden this to general mark milley, who also invited such deep rage from trump and maga for saying this sentence, quote, i want to understand white rage, white rage, and i'm white and i want to understand it. and it was in the context of wanting to understand why so many white men and women stormed the united states capitol on january 6th. he is someone that donald trump accused of treason, a crime punishable by death. >> well, look, i think and it's bigger than just recruiting. i mean, you the military is run by

people who you want to keep. so it's not just people that that when we look at how is this going to affect it's not just people coming in. it's what kind of leaders are we going to keep in our military? but i want to take it just as the last word. we focus on diversity, and that's important. but these recent purges, we also have to focus on the fact that he could easily put people who are, yes, men in these key positions. and that is what is unprecedented. it's unprecedented not only in terms of the potential for domestic use of the military here at home, but also the fact that you do not get good counsel from people who are, yes, men. and we're talking about, you know, potentially invading panama, and he's talking about greenland and all these stupid things like bombing mexico. and who is our military led by? i think we also have to really think about that as we look at this saturday night or friday

night. very dishonorable way that pete hegseth and donald trump got rid of those senior military officers. >> and we will stay on this story with all of your help. helene cooper. major general steve lepper. lieutenant colonel amy mcgrath and eddie glaude. thank you all so much for spending this time with us today. when we come back, the president of france forced to fact check donald trump in real time on tv at the white house as trump and his top aides continue to lie about and refuse to tell the truth and blame russia for starting the war in ukraine three years ago. that's next. >> let me tell you. >> sadly. >> windshield chips can. >> turn. >> into windshield cracks. >> but at least you can go to safelite. >> and schedule a. >> fix in minutes. sweet safelite can. come to you. >> for free, and our highly trained techs can replace your

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>> to change your mind. >> it's simple. >> oh. >>

and unprovoked full scale invasion of ukraine. the war in ukraine is europe's largest military conflict since world war two, with ukraine losing tens of thousands of troops and russia losing hundreds of thousands. that's according to the new york times. despite the atrocities inflicted on the ukrainians at the hands of moscow, the trump administration has left little doubt that they are taking putin's side. just take a listen to trump's secretary of defense and national security advisor over the weekend. >> but fair to say. russia. >> attacked unprovoked. >> into ukraine three years ago tomorrow. >> fair to say it's a. >> very complicated situation. >> can you acknowledge. >> that russia. >> is. >> the aggressor here? >> well. >> you know what?

>> who would. >> you rather have and go toe to toe with the likes of vladimir putin, kim jong un, xi or anyone else, joe biden or donald trump? he's the dealmaker in chief. >> today, the white house, french president emmanuel macron met with donald trump to try to convince the united states that it is in their interest and the world's interests for the united states to stand up to putin. and at one point, macron had to correct trump on the nature of europe's support for ukraine. >> europe is loaning the money to ukraine. they get their money back. >> no, in fact. to be to be frank, we paid. we paid 60% of the total effort. and it was through, like the us loans guaranteed grants and we provided real money, to be clear. >> turning our coverage. ambassador michael mcfaul, former ambassador to russia. msnbc international affairs analyst. also joining us, senior correspondent for time magazine,

covering international affairs. author of the showman inside the invasion that shook the world and made a leader out of volodymyr zelensky. simon schuster is here. let me start with you, simon on on zelensky's ability to constantly change the equation, offering over the weekend to step down in exchange for nato membership for ukraine. >> yeah. i mean, he has to also answer to. his people. >> you know. >> he's negotiating. >> with donald trump. >> but a. >> lot of what. >> he's been saying. >> in standing. >> up to trump and. telling him. >> that. >> he's. >> not going. >> to sign these onerous draft agreements. that trump is. >> putting in front of him. >> you know, he's answerable to his own people. and i think he's done a. pretty strong job so far. >> of telling. >> the. >> ukrainian people that. >> look, i'm not going. >> to sign away the natural resources that belong not to the president of ukraine, but to the people of ukraine. and future generations. so that took a lot

of courage. i think, given the importance of the relationship with the united states. and what it's created here in kyiv. you know, talking to officials and just regular people here is a kind of rally around the leader effect. where a lot of the tensions that had begun to emerge between different political forces here have quieted down. and people now feel that while zelenskyy is continuing to fight the war against russia, he is also now standing up to what is supposed to be ukraine's closest and most important ally, the united states. so that's that's been interesting to see here in the last couple of days. but but i think now it feels like to many ukrainians, their president and their leadership is fighting on two fronts a diplomatic war with ukraine would be closest ally and of course, continuing to fight the russians. >> how bizarre is it, ambassador mcfaul, to have an american president on the world stage trying to take another country's

natural resources? >> bizarre is a polite word. sad. tragic for me as an american. it's embarrassing. taking advantage of. >> a country. >> that needs us. >> and i do. >> applaud what. >> president zelenskyy. >> is doing. like simon said, he's maneuvering this and he's becoming. >> very popular. >> back home. that is very clear. so if trump wanted to make him popular and help him for reelection, it's having that effect. but i just got to say, this is not just embarrassing. it's not in america's. national interest. >> trump is. >> alienating the entire. free world by by. imposing these kinds of. deals like this. and this makes us look weak. it makes us look like we don't care about values. and that's not my america. nicole. that's. that's not the america i believe in. we just want to do deals, and we want to be reimbursed, by. >> the way. >> not the american people didn't. >> ask to be reimbursed.

>> they voted their representatives in congress. congress passed those. legislative packages that led to that assistance. the president signed it. there's no clause that says, and now you have to pay us back. so i think the president actually is out of step with a lot of americans on this issue. >> i mean, i'll play the role of the political analyst for the purposes of conversation. he is 61% of all americans think no. the understand the truth that russia is responsible for the war in ukraine, which is why you have maria bartiromo holding the line on who started the war. when you've lost maria bartiromo and you're a republican and a trump official. you are off the cliff. and then quinnipiac has an overwhelming majority of americans who don't trust vladimir putin. 81% of all americans don't think putin should be trusted. yet that's who donald trump is throwing in with. how does zelensky view this, this, this bizarre sort of

hijacking of the american presidency in terms of ideology and priorities? as as someone who doesn't even have the american people behind him on the question of ukraine. simon. >> i mean, it's extremely painful. and you have to understand what the ukrainians are dealing with in parallel. just, you know, the last couple of nights, there have been hundreds of these russian drones. you know, these are terrifying machines. they fly in swarms in the middle of the night. you know, each of them sounds like basically a motor scooter revving its engine as it falls out of the sky. at the same time you have, you know, anti-aircraft weapons on the ukrainian side trying to shoot these things down. and at the same time, you have the incoming fire from donald trump and many people in his administration calling the ukrainians the ukrainian president a dictator and blaming the ukrainians for supposedly starting the war. i mean, it's a gut punch. and, you know, the way that the

ukrainians have been dealing with it, president zelensky is dealing with it is to stay calm, you know, try to slow the process down. he's been getting a lot of different kinds of advice, including today. some of the officials i talked to, they're saying, okay, let's just let's, let's slow down. and if trump wants this piece of paper that says, okay, we got a deal from the ukrainians, now they're paying us. we're not paying them. let's give him that. if that will continue some form of american aid. but let's at least make sure that this agreement, if we sign it, if the ukrainians sign, it isn't completely onerous and colonial in nature. so that's what they're negotiating over now. >> it's insane. it's an insane turn of events on, on many fronts. but in this case, there is zero mandate from the american people to capitulate to vladimir putin and russia. i want to press both of you on the russian side of this. no one's going anywhere with just taking going anywhere with just taking a short break. we'll all be

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no us interest served in capitulating to putin. what what what happens after trump takes the entire country over this cliff with him? >> first to the. >> earlier segment, i wanted. to say something. one of. the trump. officials said, you know, he's the deal guy. he's the guy that makes all the deals. he hasn't made any deals. he had four years to make deals. you know, he amended one trade agreement with the canadians and the mexicans, everything else. there was no deals, no russia, north korea. he's this is a myth that he is a deal maker. and you're seeing it right now. it's just capitulation. i've negotiated with these guys with lavrov and ushakov. guys are in saudi arabia. you got to bring your a game to negotiate with them and get something. and they're not doing that. they're just offering things. and i think the main reason is that trump actually doesn't care about a peace agreement on you with ukraine. he just wants to have a cozy, close relationship

with putin. i hope i'm wrong, but the evidence suggests that that's his focus and what the actual, you know, specifics of a deal is. he doesn't care because if the ukrainians don't sign it, they'll just walk away and say, well, i gave them a deal. they didn't sign up, and now let's get on with the real business, which is to get close to people. >> i mean, ambassador mcfaul, i believe that's true of trump. but when you take people like marco rubio, who as recently as a week ago, or lindsey graham, who i think nine days ago said to zelensky's face in germany, you're the best kind of american ally. you're at war, shooting bullets at our adversaries so we don't have to. when you see them fall in line behind trump, who's capitulating not just to putin, the guy who wants to be like but putin, who awarded the soldiers who carried out atrocities in bucha. what are you looking for

from men like marco rubio? >> that's a great question. i think it's the only question that matters because we know what trump does. he's you know, he just tweets and disengages. what we really need to see is leadership from marco rubio, senator, secretary of state rubio, from national security advisor mike waltz. they know that putin invaded ukraine three years ago today. they know that as a fact. and the fact that they won't say it on television is shocking to me. why? why do you do these jobs if you have to sell your soul and not actually pursue things that you believe in, but i want to give them a second chance. i hope they got off to a horrible start. they gave the russians everything. i hope they regroup, and i hope they think about a strategy that actually could end this war. because if they don't, historical historians are not going to be kind to them. >> ambassador michael mcfaul and simon schuster, thank you both so much for spending time with so much for spending time with (vo) what happens when one of the most famous dunkers of all

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make sure your child is up to date on vaccines. measles is highly contagious and serious. very different tune for him. as we said, he voted to confirm robert f kennedy jr. as the health and human services secretary less than two weeks ago. we'll stay on this story. another break for us. we'll be right back. >> kids, i'm sure you're wondering why your mother and i. >> asked you here tonight. it's because it's a buffet of all you. >> can eat. >> butterfly shrimp and. >> sirloin steak. >> yeah, that's the reason. >> i don't get it. david takes prevagen for his brain >> i don't get it. >> do you have and this is his story. nice to meet ya. my name is david. i've been a pharmacist for 44 years. when i have customers come in, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. for your brain.

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home. it's where we do the things we love with the people we love. so, what if we lived tomorrow in the same place as we did yesterday? with help, we can. home instead. for a better what's next. the way i approach work post fatherhood, home instead. has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways.

health. get super beta prostate. >> thank you so much for letting us into your homes today and every day we are grateful. i am not done. i will be back in the 7:00 pm hour to join my dear friend and colleague, joy reid on the reidout. but right now it's time for the beat with ari melber. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. always good. >> to see you. and we will be watching you and everyone. >> at seven. thanks a lot. >> my friend. >> welcome to the beat. appreciate it. thanks again to nicole. welcome to the beat. i'm ari melber, and we are reporting on what is a. significant type of blowback, including in red districts, not to the idea of donald trump. he won a narrow election. so the