be back with you on this second hour of chris jansing reports at this hour, a setback for d.o.j. 21 employees now resigning, saying they refuse to help elon musk's efforts to slash the federal government. why they're pushing back. and for federal workers wondering if they'll still have a job. d.o.j. is taking the answers to emails asking employees what they did in the past week and plugging them into artificial intelligence. so will i determine whether someone should keep their job? plus, defense secretary pete hegseth is visiting guantanamo bay today, just as another flight of migrants is scheduled to arrive. and at the same time, the trump administration is pausing work on the tents to house migrants. and eggs are grabbing the headlines. but it's not the only protein that's costing you more. beef prices are rising faster than overall inflation. how high

can they go? our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments. we start with those d.o.j. workers opting to quit their jobs rather than help elon musk cut the federal workforce. nbc's aaron gilchrist is at the white house for us. what more do we know about this? erin. >> well, chris, that letter was signed by, as you said, 21 federal workers, civil servants who worked in the doj's office, both in the previous version, the one that launched under president obama, and the current version that was renamed by president trump. that letter you see on your screen here addressed to siouxsie wiles, the white house chief of staff. by these employees who said that they were tendering their resignation today. a couple of lines, i think, worth pulling out here for you to highlight their concerns in giving this resignation. they said doj's actions firing technical experts, mishandling sensitive data and breaking critical systems contradict their stated mission of modernizing federal technology and software to maximize government efficiency

and productivity. one other part of this letter that, again, i think is worth drawing attention to, where it says we will not use our skills as technologists to compromise core government systems, jeopardize americans sensitive data, or dismantle critical public services. we will not lend our expertise to carry out or legitimize doj's actionlly expressing some of the concerns that we've heard from others who filed lawsuits against some of the actions that doj's has been taking in the different agencies around the federal government, where some of those employees have been active over the last month since president trump took office here. a few things, i think also worth noting today, chris, coming out of the white house press briefing that wrapped up just a few minutes ago, the press secretary, caroline leavitt, was asked about who is running doj's in this letter that was sent to siouxsie wiles, the white house chief of staff. they noted that there had not been an administrator appointed to run dodge, and she was asked, who is doing that? she said elon musk is overseeing d.o.j. and that there are career and

political employees that are overseeing that office as well. she didn't directly answer who was the administrator? the executive order does point out that an administrator would be appointed, as other executive orders have pointed out, when it comes to other offices. for example, the president created a faith office inside the white house. he appointed an adviser, a senior adviser, and he also appointed a director of that office. in this case, dodge has an adviser, elon musk, but a senior director, an executive director and administrator. it seems that this point has not been named. the other thing we learned, chris, is that elon musk will be attending president trump's first cabinet meeting set for tomorrow, along with secretaries that the white house press secretary said elon musk has been working with and advising in the time that this administration has been in office. chris. >> erin gilchrist, thank you. well, as job cuts expand, nbc news has learned that it won't be elon musk or anyone on his

team deciding which federal workers to fire. it will be i making the call. nbc's julie sirkin is on capitol hill. what more do we know, julie, about how this is all going to play out? >> well, my colleagues and i have reported yesterday that we now know who, or i guess, what will be the determining factor when it federal employees send in their responses to that email of what did you do last week? of course, there's been some back and forth that erin had laid out, but just to get into the crux of what this ai system is, it is an llm or large language model. it essentially takes huge amounts of text data and understands, processes it, and then generates it, of course, to understand human language. it is that ai system that will then determine whether those employees jobs are mission critical or not, essentially whether those jobs are necessary for the federal government, for the federal workforce. as doge and elon musk plow ahead to make cuts as they are able to do within the federal government. of course, we've seen a rampage

of those cuts not only to the federal workforce, but to agencies themselves. over the last month, caroline leavitt, who was the white house press secretary, was asked specifically about our reporting and the fact that ai systems we don't yet know which one will be used to facilitate and to go through these responses. take a listen to what she said, and i'll note that she didn't quite answer the question. >> this is. >> to ensure that federal workers are not ripping off american taxpayers, that they are showing up to the office and that they are. >> doing their jobs. >> that's what the american people. >> expect. >> and it's a very simple task to complete. i did it myself. >> and i was more than happy to do it, because i'm very grateful that i am serving the american people and the american taxpayers dime. do you think. >> there's been pushback that erin had described? we've certainly seen it on capitol hill. republicans have seen it back home in their town halls. and then back here in washington. they have to walk a tightrope in terms of defending and supporting the president's policies, and also supporting their constituents who are outraged by this. i'll make one more point on this, which is that, of course, agencies

themselves have told some of the employees not to respond to that email, suggesting that whatever they say in the context of their responses could be used by foreign or malign actors. it is very notable that this is now going to be processed by an ai system, although it remains to be seen what the next tranche of these emails will look like. as elon musk and president trump endorsed his efforts in that promise to do. chris. >> julie sirkin, thank you. let's turn to cuba now, where today, defense secretary pete hegseth is visiting guantanamo bay for briefings on all mission operations. and that includes migrant detention. nbc's courtney kube is following that story for us. i know we got pictures in just the last hour. courtney of hegseth in guantanamo. what are we expecting out of today's visit? >> yeah, we don't know a whole lot about it, frankly, chris, the pentagon put out a statement late yesterday saying that secretary hegseth would be traveling to naval station guantanamo bay. he would go there for briefings on the operation center, and then he would also go out to the uss thomas hudner. that's a destroyer that's that's based

there right now to visit service members who are assigned to the mission. now, of course, the mission at guantanamo has had a huge amount of attention just recently, since the trump administration has decided to start sending migrants there. they sent a whole wave down some who went to the detention center there. those are people who were held essentially in in a prison there, a detention center, and then some who went to the migrant operations center, who were held, in some cases, a matter of days or even up to a week before being flown on to other countries. now, the department of homeland security sent another group of migrants down to guantanamo bay. 17 people that was flown on a u.s. military aircraft. we expect another flight to go today. so they seem to have emptied all out. all of the all of the space in the detention center and the migrant operation center out. and now they're putting people back in. but the big question is, what is the longer term goal of having migrants serving there? of course, president trump last month announced that

he wanted 30,000 migrants to be sent there. the u.s. military started setting up tents to accomplish that goal, but they still are not up to the ice standards. so at this point, the military has basically paused setting up any more tents until they find out whether, in fact, any migrants actually will be brought there. chris, i suspect that today secretary hegseth will be getting more guidance on exactly what is expected of the military there. and we may hear more about whether those tents actually ever will be occupied by migrants. >> courtney kube, thank you. now let's talk about the pinch. many americans are feeling in the grocery store as beef prices soar. cnbc's pippa stevens joins us now. what do we know about what's driving this rise and how high could we see prices go? >> hey, chris. well. >> consumers stakes are getting a bit more expensive as live cattle futures hover around an all time high, which makes grocery store beef pricier. now, the latest inflation report showed that beef prices are rising faster than overall inflation, up 5.5% year over

year compared to 3% overall. and for the time being, consumers aren't pushing back, spending a record $160 billion on beef products last year, even as prices hit $8 per pound. now that strong demand coincides with an inability to rapidly increase supply. last year, beef cow inventory in the us stood at roughly 28 million head. that is the smallest herd since the 1960s. ranchers have been reluctant to rebuild herds following years of depressed prices, expensive feed, high rates and unpredictable weather. i spoke to one rancher in montana who told me he's been trying to rebuild his herd since a major drought in 2012, but 13 years later, he is still not there. now, in terms of where prices might go next, alton cow from steiner consulting told me that while prices will be volatile, the trend between now and 2026 is higher since there is that very long lag time in terms of when a price signal is sent and when the market is

actually able to respond. finally, on top of all this, we have the potential tariffs, which could be inflationary. mexico and canada are about 6% of u.s. cattle supply. and since the domestic market is already tight, a tax on 6% is pretty significant. now, in the short term, those costs could be absorbed through the supply chain. these trade relationships have been built over decades. and so a rancher in mexico, for example, might not be able to find an immediate alternative, meaning they could absorb the tariff for the time being. but ultimately, chris, it will probably wind up costing consumers. >> pippa stevens, thank you very much for that. well, at denny's, to the list of chain restaurants where you may have to pay more for that egg sandwich. the restaurant announcing that due to bird flu impacting supply and prices, there will now be an egg surcharge at some of its restaurants. although they haven't specified how much or exactly where those restaurants are. it comes after waffle house added its own 50 cent egg

surcharge and major grocery store chains like trader joe's and costco limited. the number of egg customers can purchase. coming up in 90s house, republicans are facing headwinds ahead of a key budget vote tonight, and they're coming from tonight, and they're coming from inside the caucus. when i started walton goggins goggle glasses, i had no idea what i was doing. but godaddy airo does. using ai to build a logo, website and social content. so i can let the world know, if your goggles ain't goggins, they don't belong on your noggins! upset stomach iberogast indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for

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blueprint. they can only afford one defection if all members vote. that is scheduled for tonight. but a republican source tells nbc news behind closed doors leaders say it could slip to later this week. there are now just 17 days until the government funding runs out, and congress appears nowhere close to a deal that would avoid a shutdown. joining us now, nbc's melanie zanona from capitol hill. former republican governor of ohio john kasich and former republican congressman of florida carlos curbelo. both are nbc news political analyst. so, melanie, do we know what the early whip count looks like for this budget resolution and what factors might implicate how it might impact how this plays out? >> yeah, it. >> looks like. >> the budget resolution is on thin ice right now. by our count, there are at least four hard line conservatives who are a firm no on this budget blueprint because they're worried it doesn't go far enough to cut federal spending. now, in a good sign for the leadership, there are a number of democratic

absences. so that could help sort of even out the vote count here. and also a number of the moderates in the republican party who were initially concerned about potential cuts to medicaid benefits, appear to have come around after they huddled with the leadership last night. and they assuaged those moderates that medicaid benefits would not be cut under this proposal. as a reminder, the budget resolution itself does not actually spell out where these cuts would come from. it is just a broad framework to kick off this long process. but no doubt there is still a lot of work to go between now and 6 p.m. when they're having this vote. just take a listen to house majority leader steve scalise. >> every time we've had a big vote on the house floor, we're talking to members all the way up until the moment the vote closes. during the vote, we're talking to members. go look at every big vote we've had. today is no different. sure, we're still talking. we talked to the speaker, and i were in a meeting last night for over an hour, talking to a lot of members that had questions. we ended that meeting with every one of them finishing as a yes vote. we

still have more conversations to have today. >> and those conversations appear to include president donald trump, speaker mike johnson just moments ago telling reporters that trump himself is working the phones, trying to flip some of these holdouts and convince them to get to. yes. so we'll see whether that's enough for the vote tonight. but the house did just clear a key procedural vote, which will allow this budget resolution to move forward in the house tonight. chris. >> so, congressman, there is uneasiness among swing district republicans over nearly $1 trillion in potential cuts to medicaid. and today, speaker johnson was asked point blank if he could say that will not happen. >> the estimate is. >> it's i think. >> it's $50 billion a. >> year in fraud. >> alone in medicaid. >> those are precious. >> taxpayer dollars. everybody is committed. to preserving medicare benefits for those who desperately need it and deserve it and qualify for it. what we're talking about is rooting out the fraud, waste and abuse every taxpayer. it doesn't matter what party you're in, you should be for that.

>> how do you decode that, congressman? >> well. >> chris, what the speaker is trying to do is dealing with this squeeze that republican leaders have faced for a good 15 years now. john boehner had to go through this. paul ryan had to go through it. kevin mccarthy and now mike johnson, where you have the more conservative members demanding more ambitious legislation, and then the majority makers, the swing district members saying, no, let's not go too far. let's be careful. let's not do anything too controversial. and what those moderates are worried about is what happened in 2017. and 18 republicans then pursued a very health care heavy budget reconciliation bill to repeal the affordable care act. and ultimately, that ended up costing house republicans some 40 seats in that 2018 election. so mike johnson is trying to tell these members, look, this is mostly a procedural vote. we're not detailing any cuts here. sure, it's a budget framework. it does matter in the

legislative process, but we can probably hit the numbers by eliminating waste and fraud. it's a big number. i don't think it can only rely on cutting waste and fraud. and that's why some of these more centrist members are still worried. >> yeah. and, governor, according to the hill, house republicans and you were one are trying to spin the possible medicaid cuts as, again, not cutting benefits, just expenditures. states can feel free to make up the difference in costs and keep coverage exactly as it is. let the governors take the heat if voters don't like it. how's that going to go over with red state governors? >> chris, chris. >> this is all just. >> a game, okay? we're $36. >> trillion. >> in the hole. it's probably likely we're going to add several more trillion. >> to the debt. which is a sort of damocles hanging over. >> the heads of the next generation. >> and no, they they're not outlining where the cuts are. >> guess what? when i was. >> budget committee chairman. >> i outlined. where the cuts.

>> were going to be. i put i put the. >> the rubber on the. >> road so that. >> wait a minute. so you're saying it can't be done, governor? it can't be done. >> no, not with no no no no. no no. waste, fraud and abuse. >> that's just a that's just a. >> political cover. that's ridiculous. >> yeah. is there some waste. is there some fraud. is there some abuse? of course there is. but you can't put you can't. that's just a little shot glass for stuff. you've got to get. >> into the roots. >> of it. >> and if i said all along. >> my i'm. >> all for them. >> trying to dig in, but don't dig in by by shattering people's lives. >> there's a way to. >> do this from. >> the bottom up. i was there when we did it. we had surpluses for four years, but right now, this budget resolution. >> is a whole bunch. >> of nothing. because i don't even think, at the end of the. day that they don't meet their own resolution. i don't even think i don't think they could even do that, because there's no sense of how they would do it. see, the problem is the spenders down there, which, by the. >> way, the difference between republicans and democrats when it comes to spending is they

both love it. it's just that the republicans feel guilty when they do it. you know, before i'm going to lay one novel idea on you that no one that i've heard ever brought up. but i heard about it in a little chat with somebody. donald trump could help this country if he said before he left his term that he wants a balanced budget amendment to the constitution, to force the congress to do its job, just like states do their job. when i was governor, i had a balanced budget. what we need in washington is the same requirement. we need the same the same discipline to get it done. now, you're not going to do it over overnight. and there will be exceptions. but over time, if you were to put that in place, we would keep this problem of running a printing press, creating inflation because we can't pay our bills, which undermines the future of our kids. we this would help a great deal, i hope. i hope that somebody will tell my suggested it. think about doing it. it will. it will help this country

financially and economically. >> well, you also wonder if it couldn't help us going through this every single year over and over again. and the reality is, congressman, this causes a lot of angst for people. people are are worried that something's going to happen to medicaid. and democrats are leaning into that threat while protesting the house's budget plan. i want to play what they said today. >> children will be devastated. families will be devastated. people with. disabilities will be devastated. seniors will be devastated. hospitals will be devastated. nursing homes will be devastated. so let me be clear. house democrats will not provide a single vote to this reckless republican budget. not one. >> so let me just give you one example, congressman. medicaid is the largest payer of nursing home bills. they cover 61% of

total spending, according to the kaiser family foundation. if there were those cuts, i mean, do you want to be the member of congress facing constituents? if mom or dad or grandma and grandpa gets kicked out of their nursing home or the bills can't be paid, or i just wonder at what point it starts to influence voters, even if they're not voting per se. but again, we saw that consumer confidence is down. we see that people are concerned about the price of eggs and about the price of beef. and if they're also worried about this, is there a net effect? if you're a member of congress? >> chris, health care is a very politically potent issue. and there's a lesson for republicans from eight years ago. back then, house republicans passed a bill to repeal and replace the affordable care act. that bill did not become law. 20 house republicans voted against it on the house floor. yet a lot of

those republicans, including those who voted against it, were punished and lost the 2018 elections. this is a very potent issue, and this is why senators are using a different approach. they want to focus on the issues that unite republicans, and that they believe the public is behind right now, immigration being first and foremost, the country is behind the president on the immigration issue. that's why it's so prominent in the senate budget plan. there's national defense in there. there's american energy production, which again, is very popular. so the senate is going for a more modest piece of legislation that's politically safe, this house instrument, it is super charged because it touches on health care. and we've seen from past elections that issue can be very, very damaging for republicans. >> melanie zanona, congressman carlos curbelo and governor john

balanced the budget. kasich, thank you all. we appreciate your time. we have breaking news out of washington, where for the third time, a federal judge has directed the trump administration to release frozen foreign aid funds. joining us now, lisa rubin, msnbc legal correspondent. we literally just got this. but what are we hearing from this judge? >> well, we're hearing from this judge is he is thoroughly unsatisfied with the explanations that the department of justice gave today. he asked the department of justice, which is representing usaid in court, explain to me what steps have been taken to comply with my prior two orders to unfreeze these funds, the department of justice lawyers said. we're not in a position to make those representations to you, and that's not lawyers playing cute. that, to me, signals lawyers who genuinely do not have the information because it's being kept from them. and so they're being sent in to these courts like sacrificial lambs without sufficient information. >> being kept to them, being

kept from them. or is it also possible nothing is being done to comply with the orders? >> it's possible that both of those things are true. but a lawyer has a duty of candor. i'd like to think that a lawyer, particularly a career lawyer at the department of justice, would not obfuscate in front of a federal judge if they honestly knew that nothing was being done. it's their obligation to say that, in all likelihood, that person genuinely does not know. and so now they are under an order by judge ali to submit by noon tomorrow a list of the things that they have done so far, the status report, i'm sorry, a status report by noon and then by midnight tomorrow to unfreeze the funds and make sure that it gets done. we're going to be watching that very carefully, chris. >> he says, file a status report on your efforts to get the money moving. lisa rubin, thank you. with that breaking news, you should never go far during my hours because we're always bringing you back in. thank you so much for that breaking news. well, after the break, the mother of the six year old boy, stabbed to death by his landlord

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her six year old son 26 times, killing him in their illinois home. it came after prosecutors laid out their case, saying joseph chuubo went after the boy and his mother because of their ethnicity and muslim faith. one week after hamas's october 7th attacks on israel, he has pleaded not guilty. nbc's maggie vespa is outside the illinois courthouse for us, and i'm also joined by msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor paul butler. maggie, what have we heard so far? >> yeah. so, chris, this. >> was day one of testimony. and hanan shaheen, the boy's mother, was the first witness to take the stand. and she really laid out in great detail, greater than we've ever heard, how this really ramped up over the course of a few days after the october 7th attacks, back in 2023 by hamas. she said that she'd been renting rooms in the home of joseph shuba, she and her son, for two years, and their muslim faith had never been a problem. cut to the thursday after the attacks. a few days later, she

said he started saying things to her about how her people were killing jews and babies in israel. confronting her multiple times cut to the saturday after the attack. so one week later, she says he did it again and this time he was screaming, i want to pull up this graphic and say exactly what she said. while on the stand, she said, he said, telling this to the jury, quote, i told you your people is killing babies and jewish in israel. she's speaking english with the help of an interpreter. i should note in israel and you are not doing anything about it, she said. i told him to pray for peace. i was not expecting him to push me. and then he pushed me with his hand and said, you as muslim must die. she talked about that and he pushed her to the ground. he got on top of her. she said he started stabbing her and strangling her. at one point, she said he was putting his hand inside her mouth and pulling. she said i thought he was trying to, in her words, break my teeth. the whole while. her son. she testified her six year old son was watching this and she said screaming no, no, no, just

hoping his landlord would get off of his mother. she managed to fight him off, she said injuring the landlord in the process, ran to the bathroom, barricaded herself inside and called 911, telling that i'm on one operator. here's another quote he is killing my baby. please, you need to. the landlord is killing me and my baby. she's talking about how she could hear at that point. shiva, she said, had turned on the boy al-fayyumi, stabbing him 26 times with the knife he had on him at the time. again, we're talking about first degree murder and hate crime charges. chris shuba has pleaded not guilty. for their part, the defense not even talking about october 7th or the war in gaza during their opening statements, simply telling the jury you have to set aside your emotions, pay attention to the evidence, pay attention to the burden of proof that lies upon the state, and just saying that they think there are holes in the case. they feel like evidence was ignored by police, that they assumed shuba was guilty when they showed up. should have done more. more testing or more gathering. they didn't offer an alternative theory as to who

they thought might have done it, but just hoping to kind of seemingly plant seeds of doubt as as this stunning trial gets underway. we'll see how it goes. chris. >> maggie. thank you for that. so, paul, prosecutors say the defendant was radicalized against palestinians, and they actually got the judge's permission to cite evidence related to motive. how important is that going forward? >> it's key. chris, the prosecution appears to have a very strong case. the evidence. >> of anti-palestinian bias includes the defendant's own statements, both to the victim and apparently, to prosecutors and police at the scene of the crime. the defendant's wife also told investigators that her husband was obsessed with the situation in the middle east, and he wanted the two tenants to move out of his house. the police found the defendant in the backyard with a cut on his forehead and a knife holster on his belt, and several pocket knives near his feet, which

prosecutors will use to suggest that this was a premeditated attack. >> and paul, as maggie mentioned, he has pleaded not guilty to murder, to attempted murder, aggravated battery. hate crime charges. what are you expecting from the defense? >> such a good question. he's represented by a public defender who has refused to talk to the press. so we won't find out what the defense will be until the defense starts to put on its case. and sometimes we expect to hear about self defense, but that's problematic in this case, not just because one of the victims is six years old, but also because of the way that the boy was killed, 28 stab wounds. the police found a knife in the abdomen of this child. so prosecutors will suggest that this manner of killing is more consistent with a hate crime than any kind of justified use of force. the defense may try to use this same evidence to try to get the jury to convict on the

lesser charge of manslaughter, rather than murder, by arguing that this was a heat of passion killing. but there's evidence of planning, like the collection of knives near the collection of knives near where the defendant was arrested. so even that defense might be problematic in a case like this. so emotional chris, with this six year old victim. >> a beautiful boy. paul butler, you're going to stick around. and coming up, what should the democratic opposition look like? james carville just wrote an essay. the best thing democrats can do in this moment. we'll dig into it next. >> legal issue. >> and. >> doug. >> you'll be back. emus can't help people. >> customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. you're just a flightless bird. >> you know he's a.

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many have demanded, being the very vocal opposition. instead, james carville suggests in a new essay, it's time for democrats to embark on the most daring political maneuver in the history of our party. roll over and play dead. allow the republicans to crumble beneath their own weight, and make the american people miss us. i want to bring in the former executive director of the new york state democratic party, basil smikle. he is an msnbc political analyst. so, i mean, this is the fight, right? that's been right. just let it burn. >> you know, i remember an old political adage, which i

probably learned from james carville back when i first started, which is if you see a boulder rolling down the hill, don't get in its way. and i think that's part of that sort of calculus there. you know, other there's other frame of school of thought that says those that can't hear must feel. so if they're going to if they're going to make the decision to vote for donald trump, you get what you get. now, on the other hand, i don't think that's what democrats do. we you know, democrats are a party where we are for social justice. we are mindful of what other folks are going through and in trying to create policies to support that. and so it's somewhat antithetical to what the party has become in that sense. but the biggest concern that i have is the assumption behind it, which is if people don't like what the republicans are doing, they'll go to democrats. i don't know that that's that's a guarantee, given that so many voters just voted out of wanting to drain the swamp that included democrats.

so there has to be an opposition that isn't necessarily focused on dc politics, but is more hyperlocal. >> well, james carville says that democrats have to remind the american people of what's going on. in fact, he says, a lot of people have forgotten. this is the quote again from his article. the republican party flat out sucks at governing. the first trump administration largely amounted to tax cuts for the wealthy, 500 miles of a border wall and a destructive pandemic gone viral. george w bush got us into a harebrained war in iraq, and then tried to privatize social security while letting our financial system drive smack into the great recession. and george h.w. bush governed his way into a one term presidency because of the economy. is there a case to be made in that way? look, history tells us these republican policies have not worked well. >> all of that can be true. but democratic policies did work. and democrats made that argument under joe biden and kamala harris, and a lot of voters didn't believe them or us and

so. >> didn't feel it. >> well, that's that's the thing. voters need to feel like you're fighting for them. it's not an intellectual argument all the time. it's a very emotional one. and so i, i do believe that and i think to james carville's point, there are tremendous examples of democrats being able to govern better. but what i think is the case is that there are a lot of voters on the ground that are struggling. they are suffering. and one of the things that democrats can do is support them. it doesn't have to be under the flag of the democratic party. but if you have people in your family concerns about folks being deported, create a cadre of lawyers that help fight that. if you're seeing a lot of people laid off from their jobs, bring the churches together to try to feed them. if they're if they're food or income insecure. and there is already this, what they call it, hillman talk, which is this sort of online hbcu where black professors are actually engaging in conversation and teaching young people about history. and race, wonderful

opportunities and examples of folks taking matters into their own hands. so i think you'll see more of that. in addition to the jasmine crockett and the chris murphys of the world from dc talking about how we need to move forward. >> well, there are a lot of young democrats, a lot of younger voters, voters in general, who who say, i want the democrats to be heard from more. i want them to fight harder. i want to play what one man said to congressman paul tonko, which is in upstate new york. >> and they're. >> not playing by the rules. >> yes. >> he said. >> he said. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> to maxine waters. and i'm so proud that my representative was on the front line right there. >> but. >> i think a lot about jimmy carter, and i thought about john lewis, and i know that john

lewis would. >> have done. >> he would have. >> gotten arrested that day. >> that's right. >> that's right. >> make them make them out. >> of the water. >> you. >> we will. >> thank you. we will continue with you. i want you to listen to. >> that look. john lewis famously talked about getting into good trouble. necessary trouble. but i wonder, what does good trouble look like in 2025? or is that an outdated notion? >> it's not. it's never an outdated notion. anytime you see injustice, anytime you see people sort of under the boot of oppression, you've got to speak to it openly. and that's and i saw that clip before, and i love that clip because that's what you want. you want to stand up for your community, and you want the community to respond to what it is that you're doing. so you can't you can't just play dead. you can't just sit down. certainly in the midst of what's happening when thousands of people are losing their jobs just like that, because of people who could never have passed a security check. right. so what you've got to call

attention to it. so i understand carville's point, but i don't think that's what americans need right now. i don't think that's what the voters are looking for right now. they want somebody to fight for them. >> basil smikle always good to have you here. thank you. and after the break, what we know and don't know about why masked and armed white supremacists were able to protest near a predominantly black neighborhood. you're watching neighborhood. you're watching chris jansing reports only on ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. botox® effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness,

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chicago's midway international airport this morning, right as the southwest airlines flight was about to touch down at 8:50 a.m. local. a business jet entered the runway directly in its path, so the southwest flight immediately pulled up, circled the runway and avoided the jet. the faa says the smaller jet actually entered the runway without authorization, and the incident is under investigation. flexjet, the company operating that smaller plane, says they are aware of what happened and are conducting their own, quote, thorough investigation. well, today, county officials in ohio are pressing law enforcement for more answers after armed masked neo-nazis rallied on an overpass that leads to a historically black community outside cincinnati. some residents are questioning how the neo-nazis were even able to gather on the bridge and avoid arrest. here's how hamilton county commissioner

alicia reece put it. >> some of the stuff we say is demonstration. that was not a demonstration. that was an invasion. lincoln heights was doing what they supposed to do. they paying their taxes. they going to their own house. they in their own neighborhood. they not bothering anybody. they just came in for them. they don't live here. they don't pay taxes here. and yet they got good service. >> i want to bring in former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler, who wrote the book chokehold policing black men. so, paul, they were armed. they had guns. they had swastika adorned flags. but the avondale police, who responded to the scene, said they were bound to protect the first amendment rights of these demonstrators. hamilton county sheriff charmaine mcguffey agreed and said this today. >> our officers. >> are. >> trained in. >> the law. >> right. and they are trained to not put themselves in a

position that's going to get them sued when they know what they can do and can't do. our officers are trained that we can't just go in because someone's open carrying and yelling slurs and doing that, you know, that ridiculous. it was hateful. it was awful. it. and our officers are trained to minimize. >> but all of it raised the question, could officers have done more here legally? could they have? >> so, chris, a lot of people know about the case from the 1970s where neo-nazis marched in skokie, illinois, which is home to many jewish people. the aclu defended the nazis, which was controversial, but they said it was consistent with their mission to protect free speech. so in this case, the police say that their main responsibility in provocative situations like this is preservation of life. they're focused on making sure

nobody gets hurt. and the way to do that, they say, is to keep the marchers separate from the enraged crowd of spectators. >> well, you heard what the hamilton county commissioner had to say, that the upset that it caused. what does this do to a community's trust in law enforcement? >> well, it erodes the trust even when they understand that there are important civil liberties at stake. some citizens were upset that the marchers weren't even required to show identification to the police. but the sheriff's office says that in this jurisdiction, you only have to show id if the police have probable cause to arrest for a crime. they also say, chris, though, that they have other ways of identifying the marchers. they didn't say what that evidence is, but i'm thinking of videos, license plate readers and human intelligence. so if there is an actual crime uncovered, they say they have a way to get to those marchers. >> well, we only have a minute left, but is there anything you

see in the videotape that would indicate that, or is it enough to say, this is this is causing a potentially dangerous situation and we do need to intervene. >> so there's a proposed law that says if you're marching in a way that hides your identification and you're openly carrying a weapon, then that's a crime. that takes it out of the first amendment nexus because there's a potential for violence. so i think that's a possibility. there's a rapper named pooh shiesty who popularized ski mask as a fashion statement. his fans wore those masks in public, and police were concerned that they could be used for criminal purposes. so there were laws enacted to ban those. and so there's this whole jurisprudence now about ways to protect civil liberties, but at the same time, keep people safe when criminals or potential criminals try to hide their identity. >> paul butler, always good to have you on the show. thank you.

and that is going to do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for chris jansing reports every weekday, 1 to 3 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. our eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with katy tur power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. purchasing life insurance policies for seniors. and in just seconds, you can use the free calculator@abacus.com to learn what your policy might be worth. >> for many of my clients, selling their life insurance to abacus was right for them and their estate plan. >> don't sell or lash your policy without going to abacus.com first. there are no fees and no obligations. get the fees and no obligations. get the prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water,

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