haven't responded though, elon, they are on the bubble. you know, i wouldn't say that we're thrilled about it. they haven't responded. now, maybe they don't exist. maybe we're paying people that don't exist. don't forget we just got here. this group just got here. but those people are on the bubble as they say they may be they're going to be gone. maybe they're not around. maybe they have other jobs. maybe they moved. >> and they're. >> not where they're. supposed to be. a lot of things. >> could have happened. >> i wouldn't say that. biden ran a very tight administration. they spent money like nobody's ever spent money before. wasted money. the green new. >> scam, all of the different. things they spent money on. >> and you've seen that. you've seen that with some of. >> the things that. >> i read in speeches. i read them in people can't believe when i read them. 20 million here, 30 million here for, you know, a little educational course on something. circumcision rite. circumcision,

$20 million. to inform the people of such and such a country on other things and other things other. >> than that. >> so yeah, those people are right. >> now we're. >> trying to find out who those people are that haven't responded. >> now there will be some agencies like. >> marco has people within state that are right now doing very. >> classified, very confidential work. >> and we understand that. and we've talked and, you. >> know, we're. >> being a little more. >> surgical. >> and marco's. >> doing a lot of things himself. >> he's and some. >> of the secretaries. >> are we're going to be going to them. we're going. >> to be talking. >> about it today. we're going to ask them to do their own d.o.j. in other words, they'll look in their group. and who i spoke with lee zeldin, and he thinks he's going to be cutting 65. >> or so percent of. the people from environmental. >> and we're going to speed up the process, too. >> at the same time. >> we have a lot of people that weren't doing. >> their job. they were. >> just obstructionists and a lot of people that didn't exist.

>> i guess you. found a. >> lot of empty spots. the people weren't there, they didn't exist. and i think education is going to be one of those. you go. around washington, you see all these buildings with. >> department of education. >> we want to. >> move education. >> back to the states where it belongs. iowa should. >> have education. >> indiana should run their own education. you're going to see education go way up. right now. we're we're ranked at the very bottom of the list, but we're at the top of the list in one thing, the cost per pupil. we spend more money per pupil than any other country in the world, and yet it's denmark and norway, sweden. and i hate to say this and, you know, we're going to get along very well with china, but it's a competitor. they're at the top of the list. they're among the top ten usually. and they're very big countries. so we can't use that as an excuse. right. because we're a very big country too. but we're we're ranked last time under biden,

we're ranked 40 out of 40. they do the 40 certain nations that they've done for a long time. it seems to be 40 for whatever reason. and we were ranked number 40 a year ago. we were 38 then. we were 39. we hit 40. and so we're last in that and we're first in cost per pupil. so i would say that's unacceptable. lawrence. >> you have something. >> mr. president. i know you like competition and i know it's early. so which department are you most impressed with? and then mr. that's the first us. which department. >> have you. >> received the most resistance from? >> mr. president. >> both of those questions are a little bit well, you're a pretty controversial guy. >> and look. >> it's very early right now i think i'm. impressed with everybody. >> so far. everybody. if i. >> wasn't in. >> the first month and some of. >> them just got here, they just got approved two days ago. right. but i think i'm very impressed. >> with. >> everybody so far. i'm very

happy with all of the choices. i think that elon has done incredibly with some groups, and some groups are much easier than others. it is true. state is a, you know, very difficult situation. we're right now negotiating very successfully, i think, with russia and with ukraine, and we have a lot of countries involved, and we have to be a little bit careful what we do and who we're terminating. but marco is doing. that very i think he's going to. >> be very precise. >> it's going to be we're. >> cutting down. >> government, we're cutting down the size. >> of government. >> we have to we're bloated, we're sloppy. we have a lot of people that aren't doing their job. we have a lot of people that don't exist. you look at social security as an example. i mean, you have so many people. >> in social. >> security where if you believe it, there are 200 years old. and what we're doing is finding out the checks going out for that. and if somebody's cashing those checks, who's maybe 35 years old, okay, so there's a lot of dishonesty. there's a lot of fraud. but i think at this moment i'll take ellen off the

spot. i think that he's impressed. he said it very well, better than i can say it, that he's impressed with the people in this room. very impressed. and i am too. and it's too early to say, but i think everybody is on board. they all know we want to balance the budget. we want to have a balanced budget within a reasonably short period of. >> time. >> meaning maybe by next year or the year after, but maybe, maybe even sooner than that. >> mr. president. >> your number one issue was the border. we just got new information that they're doxing our federal agents. >> they're putting their personal information out there, these activists, and they're. >> disrupting our operations. so you've got. >> running all. >> we have activists. >> so what are we going to do about. >> the activism? a lot of those. activists are acting illegally, and we'll give that to our attorney general. and she'll take a look at that very strongly. but we also have a tremendous support from border patrol, from ice. the ice agents have been unbelievable. border patrol, their leadership at border patrol has been incredible, and they're working

very well. and as you know, i saw you reporting it this morning, actually, we set records on the least number of illegal aliens coming in, migrants coming into our country that we had, that we've had in more than 50 years. and we did this all within a period of weeks because we took over a mess. the world was pouring in. and remember, they were coming in from jails and prisons and mental institutions and insane asylums, and they were gang members and drug dealers. anybody wanted to come in, they could. and from not just south america, from all over the world. so it's amazing what they've done. and christy and tom homan, the job they've done has been absolutely amazing. we set records for and we want people to come into our country, by the way, but they want to come in. they have to come in legally. i want that to be really understood. we want people in our country, but they have to come in legally. >> can i follow on. >> that, mr. president, about the. >> the trump gold.

>> card. >> idea that. >> you unveiled yesterday. >> you like i await. >> more information. >> but the question is, does this reflect a view on your part. >> that the. >> american immigration. >> system has. >> never been. >> properly monetized as you feel it. >> should be? >> well, not so much monetized. it hasn't been properly run. i get calls from, as an example, companies where they want to hire the number one student at a school. a person comes from india, china, japan, lots of different places, and they go to harvard, the wharton school of finance, they go to yale, they go to all great schools, and they graduate number one in their class. and they made job offers. but the offer is immediately rescinded because you have no idea whether or not that person can stay in the country. i want to be able to have that person stay in the country. these companies can go and buy a gold card, and they can use it as a matter of recruitment. at the same time,

the company is using that money to pay down debt. we're going to we're going to pay down a lot of debt with that. are they going to? i think the gold card is going to be used by not only for that, it will be used by companies. i mean, i could see apple. i've spoken with tim cook and by the way, he's going to make a $500 million investment in the company in the country only because of the results of the election. and i think because of tariffs, he's going to want to be in the country because of tariffs, because if you're in the country, there is no tariff. if you're out of the country, you got to pay tariffs and that's going to be a great investment. i think that he's making. i know it's going to be a great investment, but we have to be able to get people in the country, and we want people that are productive. >> we are. >> watching donald. >> trump's first. >> cabinet meeting. >> i'm katy tur, good to. be with you. a lot happening there. every one of his cabinet officials are gathered at the white house. it is the first of what is likely to become a series if we take past as president of tv ready events.

you're going to notice, though, that elon musk is also at this meeting. and you might be asking yourself, what's the world's richest man and president trump's biggest donor doing there? surely what many of the senate confirmed cabinet members are wondering themselves today as well, probably would like to ask if they can't. and that is because elon musk has kind of. taken. don't even know how to put it like a second in command position in washington to try to singlehandedly gut the federal government to bring it down to size to save money. they made some big and broad claims there that doge has cut billions and billions of dollars. they say they're going to get to $1 trillion. but in looking closer at what they've said they've done and what they've actually done, there's been quite a bit of disparity there. and i know elon musk, you can go to the doge website. but just so you know, cbs has reported that one of the cuts that doge has cited,

which totals $655 million, was counted three times. the total cut for that one item was closer to 18 million. another example this is from the intercept, showed that there was a claim for $232 million at the social security administration that was cut. the actual savings was 560,000. and another by nbc news saying that president trump's agenda, you know, this big budget proposal that's just starting to go through congress is going to end up adding to the federal government's deficit more than they're going to be able to cut at doge because of just all the tax cuts that donald trump is proposing. let's begin with nbc news white house correspondent aaron gilchrist. reuters white house correspondent jeff mason is also with us, and bulwark managing editor sam stein is with us as well. so, aaron, i will begin with you again. this is what we expect to be the first in a series of these meetings. >> you're absolutely right. >> this obviously. >> now is highlighting the fact

that president trump has put in place almost all of his cabinet secretaries and folks who are at cabinet level positions as well, gathered around the table with him here. we we've only heard a few people speak to this point. president trump, obviously, his hud secretary, offered a prayer at the beginning. you just saw the commerce secretary speaking a moment ago, but primarily the only other speaker has been elon musk. he was asked to talk about the work that doge has been doing, his office within the white house, the work that he's been doing with the federal agencies over the last month or so that president trump has been in office. and elon musk said that he believes that they've found great success in trying to reduce the size of the federal government and reduce the spending of the federal government, which president trump has said was very much a primary goal that he has set out in these early days of his administration. you noted that elon musk said he believes that he will be able to find $1 trillion in savings over the course of the next several months, and in the work that his

doge team is doing, that he said that he believed that they needed to cut $4 billion a day or find $4 billion a day in savings between now and the end of the fiscal year in september, in order to meet the goals that they've set out. and as a result of that goal, we've seen a tremendous effort to reduce the size of the federal workforce, first, with that deferred resignation program that the administration says 75,000 workers took, and then with the firing of probationary workers that we've seen over the last several weeks, and elon musk indicating that at this point, they want to keep jobs that are essential to the functioning of the federal government and people who are doing well in those jobs. as we've been hearing more and more about additional cuts to come in the very near future. katie, the other thing i think that's worth highlighting from the president's earliest remarks in this meeting, the fact that the ukrainian president, volodymyr zelensky, he says, is confirmed to be coming to the white house

on friday. we know that there are two tracks that are being pursued in terms of making deals as it relates to the russia ukraine war, one being a deal that the president's team wants to make with russia, the other being a deal, as the president said, to get our money back was the phrasing that the president used in terms of getting money back from ukraine. billions of dollars obviously been invested in that effort to support ukraine during the biden administration. the president says that there is a deal close that would allow for the us to get access to rare earth minerals in ukraine. he said that the expects to be able to sign that on friday, when president zelensky is in washington. katie. >> yeah. >> and i know zelensky wants to get a security guarantee. we're going to talk about that in just a moment. let's let's keep on this track. and there was also that email that went out over the weekend. and then it was rescinded. and some cabinet heads said don't respond to this. and then elon musk came out again, jeff, and said, no, no, no, respond to this email.

it is mandatory. they were making a joke about it at the top. he said. it wasn't a test. it was a test of life, a proof of life test to see if there are people that are actually living that are that are collecting a paycheck in the federal government, implying that, again, that i guess dead people are, i don't know, are getting paid by the federal government. a million people, according to the white house, of the 2 million or so federal employees responded. of the other million, donald trump says they should be considered on the bubble. maybe they're going to be gone, he says. he also mentioned that he was talking to lee zeldin, who's the head of the epa, and that lee zeldin says he told him, donald trump, that they're going to cut 65% of the workforce there. and then donald trump said the same thing is probably going to happen at the department of education. a whole lot of people to be firing within the federal government. and, jeff, i think there are americans who believe the federal government is too, too bloated. there are probably democrats in washington who

agree that the federal government is too bloated. but the way that this is being done is not surgical. it's, you know, done with a mallet. it's also it's heartless, you know, it's pretending or acting like these people don't have lives. like they don't matter, that they don't have families or mortgages or like that they. or as if they were just blood suckers. they are corruptly in the federal government. i wonder, i wonder if there's any concern at the white house about the way that they're treating americans. a lot of the people that, by the way, the federal government who voted for donald trump. >> i think it's a good question, katie. and just for your viewers to know, i'm coming from the what our workspace of the white house today. so forgive the bad lighting and the sound in the background. but to your to your question, first of all, i'm not actually sure that elon musk was joking when he said that part of the purpose of that email was a proof of life. i think he may have firmly believed that. and with regard to your your second

question, i've certainly spoken to government employees who have gotten these emails and absolutely feel hurt by the lack of respect that they see reflected in those emails. but to your broader point, sure, there are no doubt people from the democratic side and the republican side who believe the government is bloated and that something needs to be done about it. but so far, the evidence shows if you look carefully. at the priorities that this administration has, has directed the government cuts at, they are largely ideological. the president noting what you just said, that there could be 65% cuts in at the environmental protection agency or in environmental work. that's an ideological piece, the same way that he's attacked the department of education and usaid and the consumer financial protection bureau. that doesn't mean there won't be others coming. he did reference that state was sort of delicate that they needed people at state, but that marco. >> rubio, the secretary.

>> of state, would be. >> handling that. >> but just in terms of the broad picture so far of where the targets have happened, they have happened at agencies where the work that is done there or the purpose of those agencies is not entirely one that republicans always. >> take control. >> we were just talking a moment ago about the deal for the ukrainian minerals. and donald trump says he believes he's going to be signing it with volodymyr zelensky. on friday. he just made another mention of it. let's listen. >> well, i'm. >> not going to make. >> security guarantees beyond very much. we're going to have europe do that because it's in you know, we're talking about europe is their next door neighbor, but we're going to make sure everything goes well. and as you know, we'll be making a we'll be really partnering with ukraine in terms of rare earth. we very much need rare earth. they have great rare earth. we'll be working with secretary burgum and with chris, or you'll be working on that together. and we're going to be able to have tremendous i mean,

this gives us because we don't have that much of it here. we have some, but we don't have that much. and we need a lot more to really propel us to the next level of to lead in every way. we're leading right now with ai, we're leading with everything right now. but we have to we need resources. we have to double our electric capacity. we have to do many things. we have to really triple. if you think of it, the electric capacity from what we have right now, if you can believe it. so i just say this. so the deal we're making gets us, it brings us great wealth. we get back the money that we spent, and we hope that we're going to be able to settle this up. we want to settle it. we want to stop. i tell you what, i'm doing it for two reasons. but the number one reason by far, is to watch all these people being killed. i see pictures every week from, i assume, satellite pictures mostly, but there's some pictures on site of thousands of soldiers that are being killed. they're being decimated because equipment today, military equipment is so powerful and so

devastating. and number one, i want to see people stop. and they're not from here. they're from primarily to other countries. and then, by the way, let's talk about the middle east. we got to solve that problem too. and that's come a long way. we're doing very well in that. also a lot of things are happening on that. but i'm watching soldiers being killed, ukrainian and russian soldiers being killed. my number one thing is to get that stop. my number two thing is i don't want to have to pay any more money because we've. biden has spent $350 billion without any chance of getting it back. now we're going to be getting all of that money back, plus a lot more. and we provided a great thing. i mean, we provided something very important and we'll be working with ukraine. and because we'll be taking that, we're going to be taking what we're entitled to take. now, they spent $350 billion and europe spent $100 billion. now does anybody really think that's fair? but then we find out a little while ago, not

so long ago, a few months ago, i found out that the money they spent, they get back. but the money we spent, we don't get back. i said, well, we're going to get it back and we'll be able to make a deal. and again, president zelensky is coming to sign the deal and it's a great thing. it's a great deal for ukraine, too, because they get us over there and we're going to be working over there. we'll be on the land. and you know, in that way it's sort of automatic security because nobody's going to be messing around with our people when we're there. and so we'll be there in that way. but europe will will be watching it very closely. i know that uk has said and france has said that they want to put they volunteered to put so-called peacekeepers on the site, and i think that's a good thing. >> mr. president. >> you mentioned the. >> high cost of eggs. >> and we've. >> seen consumer confidence. >> this week have a sharp drop from last. >> month, the biggest dip. >> in, i believe three years. >> why is. >> that your assessment. >> why is that the case. and is there. >> anything you can consumer

confidence if you look at confidence in the nation, it had the biggest increase in the history of the chart. it went up 42 points in a period of like days after the election, since the election. so since the election, the confidence in our nation, including right track, wrong track, the first time it's ever happened where we were on the right track because this country has been on the wrong track for a long time. so the confidence in business, confidence in the country has reached an all time high. we have never reached levels like we are right now. okay, you said vice. >> president. >> you've been. >> very clear. >> in saying that as long as you're. >> president. >> iran will never get. >> a. >> nuclear weapon. >> is it. >> also your policy that. >> as long as you're. >> president. >> china will never. >> take taiwan by force? >> i never comment on that. i don't comment on anything because i. >> don't want. >> to ever put myself in that position. and if i said it, i certainly wouldn't be saying it to you. i'd be saying it to other people, maybe people

around this table and very specific people around. >> this table. >> so i don't want to put myself in that position. but i can tell you what, i have a great relationship with president xi. i've had a great relationship with him. we want them to come in and invest. i see so many things saying that we don't want china in this country. that's not right. we want them to invest in the united states. that's good. that's a lot of money coming in. and we'll invest in china. we'll do things with china. the relationship we'll have with china will be a very good one. i see all of these phony reports that we don't want their money. we don't want anything to do with them. that's wrong. we're going to have a good relationship with china, but they won't be able to take advantage of us. what they did to biden was he didn't know what was happening. he didn't know what he was doing. the administration didn't know what they were doing. it was very sad to watch, but we're going to have a good relationship with china and russia and ukraine and the middle east. we're doing things that look, when i left, we had no wars. we had defeated

isis totally. we had no inflation. we didn't have the afghanistan withdrawal, the worst withdrawal anybody has ever seen. i think that's one of the reasons that president putin looked at that. he said, wow, these guys are a paper tiger. look at it. we're no paper tiger. don't forget we got rid of isis in three weeks. people said it would take five years. we did it because when i came in, i let them do what they had to do. and the man that headed that operation is now going to be your your chairman. right. chairman of the joint chiefs. yes, sir. and raising cain, i liked him right from the beginning. as soon as i heard his name, i said, that's my guy. okay. any other questions? >> decreases in. >> crossings at the border for. >> you to continue the. >> pause on. >> tariffs against mexico. >> and canada. >> and if not, i'm. >> not stopping. >> the tariffs. no. me millions of people have have died because of the fentanyl that comes over the border. >> the 90%. >> drop in. >> border crossings. >> though last. >> month compared to about a year ago. >> yeah they've been good. but

that's also due to us. mostly due to us. i mean, it's very hard. it's right now very hard to come through the border. but the look, the damage has been done. we've lost millions of people due to fentanyl. it comes mostly from china, but it comes through mexico and it comes through canada. and i have to tell you that, you know, on april 2nd, i was going to do it on april 1st, but i'm a little bit superstitious. i made it april 2nd. the tariffs go on. not all of them, but a lot of them. and i think you're going to see something that's going to be amazing. we've been taken advantage of as a country for a long period of time. we've been we've been tariffed. but we didn't tariff now i did when i was here, i tariff, we took in $700 billion from china, 700 billion, not one president in the history of our country took in $0.10 from china. at the same time, china respected us. now, when covid came in, that was a different deal. i used to call it the china virus. i guess i can call it the china virus

again. but, you know, it's an accurate term, but i won't do that out of respect to china. >> mr. >> immigration enforcement. >> on gaza. >> i just wondered if there's any progress towards a second phase of the ceasefire. >> well, i'm very disappointed when i see for four bodies came in today. these are young people. young people don't die, okay? young people don't die. these are young people. four bodies came in today. they think they're doing us a favor by sending us bodies. so, look, that's a decision has to be made by israel, by bibi. but israel has to make that decision. and we got a lot of hostages back. but it's very sad what happened to those people. i mean, you had a young lady with her hand practically blown off. you know why it blew up? because she put up her hand to try and stop a bullet that was coming her way, and it hit her hand and blew off her fingers. big part of her hand. this this is a vicious

group of people. and israel is going to have to decide what they're doing. phase one is going to be ending. think of it today they sent in four bodies. bodies. and i will say one thing, though. i've spoken to a lot of the parents and a lot of the people involved, they want those bodies almost as much and maybe even just as much as they wanted their son or their daughter. amazing. please, sir, please. my son is dead, but they have his body. please, can you get it? for us? it's the biggest thing. it's. it's incredible the level they want. the bodies of these people, they're dead. they're dead. and you know, when i saw the ones that came in two weeks ago, they looked like they just got out of a concentration camp. then the following week, a group came. >> in and they weren't. >> as bad and as bad a shape. but israel is going to have to make a decision. you're right. phase one and phase two is started. and today we got some,

you know, very, very we knew they were dead, by the way. we knew that they were going to be bodies as opposed to people that were living. but the very sad situation, at some point somebody is going to say, we got to do something about this. >> mr. president, you're. talking about. >> afghanistan and the withdrawal. have all the generals or command staff that were involved with the withdrawal. been fired or relieved of duty? >> well, that's a great idea as far. i'm not going to tell this man what to do, but i will say that if i had his place, i'd fire every single one of them. beep, beep. that's a very good question. >> well, it's a question we've thought a lot about. >> okay, we're. >> going. >> to back. >> out of this for a second. so on the zelensky meeting, he notably said that he's not going to be giving security guarantees to the ukrainians in exchange for this mineral deal. we'll see if that is what volodymyr zelensky is also anticipating and whether he does end up signing this. he talked about

peacekeeping soldiers from various european countries. he also mentioned the uk. by the way, the uk is building back up its defense forces, making an investment in their own defense ahead of a meeting between the uk prime minister keir starmer and donald trump, which is going to take place on thursday. starmer is following french president macron, who is trying to convince donald trump to stand by the western alliance to maintain nato against russia, saying, you know, russia is playing you for a fool. donald trump probably not using those words, though, because donald trump responds better to flattery. he also was asked about china and whether he would say that china should not invade taiwan, not try to take that island by force, which has long been the position of the american government. longtime donald trump said that he's not going to talk about that. he would. it would be dumb for him to take a position on that publicly. he'd be talking about

it instead with the people at that table. he wants to have a great relationship with president xi jinping of china. he wants china to invest in this country. also, another moment that happened there at the top from elon musk. you might have caught it. just want to underscore it. emphasize it. elon musk said that as a part of the doge cuts, they accidentally fired the group of people that were watching for ebola preventing ebola. the ebola prevention task force, but they were able to get them back. i guess it was a temporary thing. they were able to fix that. that's good news. aaron gilchrist still with us, jeff mason, sam stein and joining us now, new york times diplomatic correspondent michael crowley, because we're talking about foreign policy. michael, let's go back to what donald trump is saying here. this is again, what we've seen. he's trying to remake the global order. he is not the ally that that america has been. it is changing and

europe is. europe is watching this and acting accordingly. >> yeah. and thanks. >> for having me. >> it's an. incredible moment, particularly when. >> you pause to think. >> about the fact that. >> not only. >> is so much. >> changing, but that. >> you know. >> the continent. >> of europe and the entire world. >> is tuning. >> in to these events that. >> trump has hanging on his every. >> word, trying. >> to. figure out what. is the new american approach. i mean, we know that anything is possible now. we know that he's. >> giving up. >> on things that people have. held as, as as foundational truths for decades. >> but then. >> there's just this incredible. >> quality of just, you know, what. >> is he going to say? and he and he spits out answers to unpredictable questions. and you don't know whether he's making policy, whether he's just popping off about whatever's on the top of his head, whether this is a. change in geopolitics

or or he's just kind of musing out loud. so it's just a moment. of unbelievable change and. >> really turmoil. >> and the bottom line is for the europeans in particular. >> and we. >> can come back to this, i think maybe the taiwanese great sense of. >> alarm and unease. >> yeah. no doubt about that. and then when you're looking at keir starmer, who's going to be here on thursday, followed by vladimir zelensky on friday, starmer is obviously going to try to keep donald trump in lockstep with nato as much as he possibly can as the french president did. and then zelensky is going to be coming here and talking about these, this, this deal. how is zelensky going to sign a document that doesn't make guarantees of security for ukraine? how how can he what would incentivize him to do that. >> katie i think. >> really it's a sense that the alternative is worse, that, you

know, you you basically have to have some kind of american support here. you have to you can't have trump turn on you entirely or, or ukraine is basically cooked. and so i think the idea is, you know, you. can't really give him no for an answer. now, in the reporting i've seen and my understanding and what i've heard about this agreement, there are some things to be determined later. it's not completely every every clause and provision is not totally filled in. and so there might be a sense that you can punt some of this down the road and that the most important thing, and i think this applies to so much diplomacy with trump around the world right now, is to give him a perception of a big win. >> that the. >> photo op, that the headline is going to be the most important thing. and maybe you can resolve some of the details later in a way that's going to be more favorable to you, or just get on his good side

briefly and try to convince him to make changes later. >> are any of our allies looking at what donald trump is doing, talking about again, he said a moment ago, canada is the 51st state wanting to retake panama, wanting to take greenland, take over gaza. and again, there was a truth social post, an eye post that showed gaza as as trump land with a trump golden statue and, and trump hotels. and in this deal that he's making with ukraine for its, its goods, its minerals stuff that we would want. is he looking just to divvy up the world with people like vladimir putin, with people like xi jinping, with people like mbs of saudi arabia? is that what foreign leaders are watching? are they worried about that? are you hearing any conversation along those lines? >> definitely, katy, you put your finger on it and that's the concern. now, you know, the jury's still out a little bit. and some people will say it's naive to have the jury still be out. they'll say it's clear what's happening, but i think the jury's still out to some

degree as to whether this is a lot of talk. trump is trying to impress his base, show that he's a strong leader who's asserting himself and making america great again. and how much of this is he really going to follow through on versus the possibility? and this is where people say it's naive not to think this is the reality that that the reality is trump sees basically practices a kind of power politics that that govern the world for much of human history, before the world wars in particular, where the strong take what they can, they divide the spoils and the weaker countries, the weaker people just get exploited and do what they can to survive. and you take what you're able to do. and it's just about it's just about raw power. and that's certainly the way he talks. and we'll see to what degree he actually follows through on that. >> all right. let's go back to domestic stuff. tariffs are going to go into effect on mexico and canada starting on

april 2nd. donald trump says he also mentions they're going to be announcing tariffs on the eu very soon. sam. he was making claims that consumer confidence is up. it's nowhere. it's higher than it's ever been. inflation is going down. consumer confidence by the way, is down and inflation is going up. it's you know the reverse of what he's saying. and these tariffs economists warn will only make inflation worse. not to mention the agenda that he has the budget deal that he has in place adding to the deficit because of the sheer amount of money, the tax cuts that he wants to give to corporations, the wealthy, the wealthier among us in this country. >> yeah, it's a hodgepodge of economic policies here. hard to figure out where. we're going. you're right. inflation is up. how much of that is due to trump is debatable. obviously he's just a month in. but he did, for what it's worth, promised that it would come down immediately. >> and that's. >> not happening. and then yes.

>> tariffs threats. >> are looming and that's causing anxiety in the markets. >> consumer confidence. >> is lower. that's probably because the price of goods remains stubbornly high. and while there is some optimism i suppose in the business community you're beginning to see that wane. and look, no one, the real sort of uncertainty here is all this disruption to government. >> services. >> all the firings that you're having at the federal level. yes, a lot of that is concentrated in. >> washington dc. >> but it's not all concentrated in washington. >> d.c. so, for instance. >> look at the cdc. it's headquartered in atlanta. when you get rid. of 1000. >> 2000 cdc employees, it doesn't. >> just impact the people in atlanta. it's the businesses around the cdc. it's the. >> community that. >> is built around the. >> cdc. >> and that can really obviously impact the state of georgia. writ large. and so what i think a lot of people are waiting to see is what will be the residual impacts of all this government slashing in the short term. it's

not going to be good. can they get beyond it? will it unleash some sort of positive economic growth? and long term is a real thing. but again, trump did promise great times from day one on. so we're a month in. >> yeah. and republicans are are facing some blowback on this at least a little bit of blowback. some of them are going back home. they're having town halls and they're meeting angry constituents. now we're getting word that they're going to cut back on these town halls. we saw the same thing happen during the first administration when people were angry at town halls. republicans just didn't show up any longer when they were trying to avoid tough reporter questions. they just didn't show up to events or they just, you know, pretended they were on the phone when they were walking through the halls of congress. but in the midterms, they lost the house. nancy pelosi became speaker. is that the should we take past as precedent here? >> well, this is the approach i take to my marriage to when i know i'm in for a bad call. i just don't accept the call.

>> i don't. >> know why we're. >> so. >> in michael crowley there. >> yeah. why? >> i'm glad you showed michael. >> instead of me. >> okay. >> i was an odd conversation. i, i think there's an element of sticking your head in the sand here. if you're a republican in congress, you don't want to. you don't want to be confronted with the sentiments of your constituencies, but they are the ones who vote. and it's very apparent just from talking to people on the ground, from talking to federal workers, from talking to activists, that there's a lot of brewing anxiety out there. now, i will say the question that i have. >> and i. >> think a lot of these members have too, is, is that anger? is that anxiety geared towards elon musk or is it. geared towards donald trump? i don't. >> think this. >> is deliberate, but it might end up being shrewd that elon musk ends up being sort of this human shield for trump, where a lot of people are. >> angry at. >> doge is doing, and they blame elon musk for this very haphazard and poorly executed plan to fire tens of thousands of government employees and cut critical services. and then

trump gets to sort of avoid some of that mess by being. >> just one. >> person away from it. ultimately, though, the buck does stop with. >> him. >> and ultimately house republicans have to figure out how to handle this. and if they go home and they get confronted by constituencies, they need to have better answers than they're giving them right now. >> jeff, can i go back to the question of savings and the doge cuts, all these cuts that that elon musk is trying to make amid the federal government, among the federal government, just getting rid of workers? how much money does that end up saving the american people? >> well. >> i don't have the figures right in front of me, but compared to the to the overall us budget. >> it is marginal. >> it is fractional. the money that they're going to spend with the tax cuts is much, much greater number than they're going to offset with with the job cuts that they're planning on doing. but it. >> is. >> you know, i mean, i don't

doubt that the trump white house wants to make cuts and, and believes that they they see fraud and waste and that those are things that they're targeting. but if the overall goal is really to save 1 trillion, $2 trillion, the programs that they're going after and the job cuts that they have executed so far. will have or, and are having just a very, very small impact. >> on. >> that overall financial and fiscal picture. >> when they talk about looking at the pentagon, looking at defense, they talked about cutting down on on the workforce there. is there any real talk about auditing the defense budget and seeing where there's waste or, i don't know, fraud at the defense department? this has long been something that people have asked questions about and gotten no answers to, because it's a black hole. the defense budget. >> and i think it's fair to say that republicans generally are very supportive of the pentagon

and of the military and of defense spending. so elon musk targeting that area will and potentially targeting some areas of the country that have spaces or where some of that money is spent, will absolutely hit red states in the same way that it's blue states. as far as whether or not a specific audit is going to happen, all i can say is elon musk, with the president's support, has said that the pentagon is basically next up. so, you know, whether that's an audit or the broader doge sort of treatment in terms of looking for things that it can cut, he they've made very clear that the military and the pentagon writ large are on their list. >> sam, is there actually discomfort among cabinet officials with elon musk? i mean, i know they're saying ignore his emails. can you sense that there actually is any daylight between donald trump's team right now or or are they all in the same page? >> well, there. >> is discomfort. >> with within the cabinet

towards. >> elon musk. >> on a personal level, it's impossible to necessarily say. and there's certainly contemporaneous reporting to suggest so. and i just think the way that this whole five bullet point email thing played out is very indicative of a cabinet that feels like elon is getting a little bit over his skis, right? i mean, frankly, they should be. here's a guy who really actually. >> sam, hold on one second because rfk is talking about measles. we just had the first measles death in this country in a decade. let's listen. >> watch again. >> and there there are about 20 people hospitalized, mainly for quarantine. i was watching. >> we put. >> out. >> a post. >> on a yesterday and we're going to continue to follow it. incidentally, i've been for measles outbreaks this. year in this country. last year. >> there were. >> 16. so it's not unusual to have measles outbreaks every year. >> you sound a little under. >> the weather yourself. >> right now. >> i just i have a permanently bad throat. >> mr. president.

>> would you. >> would you send. >> us peacekeepers to. >> just to. >> support the. >> european peacekeepers? >> would you. do any. >> sort of. >> us we're going to support europe. >> yeah. >> and how would you do. >> that with europe? we have a great relationship with europe. i mean, you could ask for. you could talk about france. you could talk about any of them. i mean, we have. >> a great. >> so there was a very limited slice of that measles comment. there's a big measles. measles outbreak in texas right now. one of the places most of the affected are children. it's around lubbock, texas. one person has now died. we don't know the details of who this person is. it is the first measles death in ten years in this country. and it comes as people are starting to question and lose trust in vaccinations. measles was considered to be eliminated back in 2000 because of the success of the mmr virus. the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine. excuse me? it's what you get when you're a kid. if

you have a child, you take them to get the mmr vaccine and you get a booster. if you're if you're if you're in need of one, it was not a problem. but now that we are questioning vaccines and there's doubt inserted into the system, doubt very much led by rfk for many years that somehow it causes autism. there is absolutely no evidence to support that, by the way. none. studies have researched it, no evidence to support it. now we're seeing more outbreaks of measles, and now we have had the first death in ten years. one of the other things that they are talking about is actually one of the other things. they keep going back and forth. they're jumping around here. ukraine has come back up. donald trump says russia is going to have to make concessions. i'm not exactly sure what those concessions are. he's also, again, claiming that russia is only at the table because donald trump is back in power. as to ukraine joining nato, he says, you can forget

about that. you can forget about that. michael crowley that was that was the big thing for ukraine, that they were going to finish up this war. they were going to join the eu and they were going to join nato. >> yeah. this is a dramatic swing in american policy, of course. and it this is what vladimir putin wants to hear. this is a big reason why putin says he invaded ukraine, although there are many reasons. and he says some reasons that are more genuine than others, i think. but it's certainly a big grievance of the russians that ukraine that had been invited to join nato at some point in the future and was determined to be a nato member. and trump is sweeping that off the table. now, he's also saying that the russians are going to have to make some concessions in any agreement. you would like to think that that would be the case. we haven't seen any evidence yet of any particular concessions the russians are willing to make. we haven't seen

the us pressing on any specific points. so we hear about a lot of things that that ukraine has to give up, including nato membership. but we've not heard any particulars of what the russians might have to give up. and that is the source of great worry and alarm in europe and in ukraine. >> let's bring in nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. gabe, what's so far standing out to you? >> well hi there katie. >> well, what you've. >> just been talking. about this. mention of ukraine. >> and president trump. >> saying flat. >> out that ukraine can forget about. >> joining nato, as you've been discussing, that is. >> extremely significant. he was. >> also asked. >> by a. reporter there with. >> rego these budget. >> negotiations, whether he. >> could guarantee that social security and medicare and medicaid would not be cut. the president responded. >> saying that there would. >> be no. >> read my lips moment here, that that's something. >> he said over. >> and over again. >> but still. >> there are a lot of questions. >> katie, as you know, about. >> how the trump administration can go. >> through. >> go through and make all these significant cuts that it wants

to make without looking at some of those entitlement programs. >> so. >> again, we're still listening to this cabinet meeting as it unfolds. but just in the last few minutes, the president making news coming out stronger against nato membership for ukraine than he even has before. katie. >> okay, jeff or sam, let's talk about the budget for a second. the budget resolution passed through the house last night. it's going to go to the senate. it needed donald trump. mike johnson needed donald trump to get on board and to help strongarm some of the more moderate members to say yes to this because they are worried about medicaid cuts, because it's the sort of thing that could lose them their seats if medicaid gets cut. it's also something that would be a problem in red states. it's not just a blue state thing. losing that sort of funding and cutting that. the democratic strategy appears to be just let the republicans do what they're going to do. they're not going

to sign on to this budget deal. you have james carville coming out and saying the strategy should be roll over and play dead, roll over and play dead till the republicans do themselves so much damage that you can go for the jugular. what do you make of that? >> well, first of all, the medicaid stuff and trump saying read my lips, i'm not going to touch it. it is precisely because it matters more to red states than blue states. the federal contributions to the medicaid program are greater for red states than blue states. and trump, to his credit, has kind of made a realignment of the political coalition whereby a lot of working class, poor, predominantly white people who are on medicaid are trump supporters. and he knows this. he's smart about this. he knows that they are going to be mad if the if the government touches medicaid in this budget deal, he knows that food benefits matter to his people, too. which brings us to this very precarious moment, which is the house has passed this budget framework, and they need to figure out how to get roughly $880 billion of cuts from the committee that

really oversees medicaid. i don't really know how they're going to go about doing this. they did pass this framework, but that was just sort of a permission to go and fill in the blanks. and so here we're at this moment where we got to figure out what those blinks are going to be filled in with. and it's easy to say we're going to, you know, end tax on. >> tips and end. >> tax on social security. but they do to. some degree have to pay. >> for this stuff. >> yeah. >> and i don't know how they're going to figure that out. >> and yes. >> probably right right right. they shouldn't do anything because what do democrats have to offer here. >> well i mean they also have no leverage. they have no power in the house. they've got no power in the senate unless it's a 60 vote threshold. they don't have it. >> and it's. >> not in this case. >> yeah. >> let's bring in if they're doing it in reconciliation. no. nbc news chief capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles is with us. ryan, just to clarify here, did donald trump say they're not going to touch medicaid? or did he say they're not going to touch social security? >> i actually wasn't. >> listening to. >> what donald. >> trump had to say because i was waiting to talk to you. >> so i'm.

>> not. >> exactly sure. okay, we're going to we're. >> going to we're going to follow that up because we were not listening either because we were having a conversation. yeah. so we're going to go through our notes and get the exact word. >> i can tell you that in. >> the past he said that he's going to protect both. >> of them. so i you know, i'm not exactly. >> sure what he. specifically is referenced in this particular. >> setting, but. >> this is kind. >> of the exact. >> difficult position. >> that congressional. >> republicans find themselves. >> in right now. right? >> they have. >> the hard right. >> of their party demanding. >> what really amounts to draconian. >> cuts in. >> a very. >> very short. >> period of time. >> and the only. >> way that. >> you. can cut. >> a budget that. >> 86% of which is gobbled up. >> by the. >> pentagon. >> by. >> medicaid and medicare. >> and social security, the only. way that you're going to get the. >> cuts. >> that you're talking. >> about. >> and the. >> range of 1.5. >> to. >> $2 trillion, is. >> finding a. >> way to. >> either reform. >> or. >> make cuts from those programs. >> and where. republicans are using kind of delicate language around. >> this is that they're saying, first of. >> all, as.

>> sam pointed out. >> we haven't specifically. >> said what. >> we're going to cut. >> we're still. >> going to figure that out. >> this is. >> just a goal. >> that we're. >> going. >> to try and reach. >> and then when they talk. >> about. >> these programs. >> they don't ever say that the programs are untouchable. >> they say that they're going to. >> go and try and find reforms. >> in those programs. >> the. three planks that they always talk about waste, fraud. >> and abuse. and i've been. >> covering legislatures at both the state and. local level for the better part of two decades. katy. >> and i. >> can tell you that no budget. >> has ever been balanced simply. >> by cutting waste. >> fraud and abuse. there's just. not enough of it, especially when you're. >> talking about. >> the volume of. cuts that they are talking about. >> right now. >> so this, you know. >> was no doubt. an important. >> step in the process by. >> them getting. >> over this hurdle. >> and finding. >> something that. >> could get 217 votes. >> last. >> night, it will. >> normally. >> need 218 votes. >> but you know. >> the. >> holdouts. >> the ones that. >> almost killed this deal last night. >> made it clear. >> that they. >> were. >> not happy with. >> this package. and they want. >> to see. >> even more cuts. so there's going to be a lot that still has

to be hashed. >> out here over the next couple of months. >> and then i think. >> an important point that kind of extends. >> out. >> your discussion. >> here is. >> that the talk. >> about how. the tax. >> cuts play into all of. >> this. >> $4.5 trillion in tax. >> cuts. >> which essentially. >> amounts to an extension. >> of the. >> tax. >> cuts that. >> already exist. >> the reason. >> that these tax. >> cuts are sunsetting. >> is because when they. >> initially proposed. >> them, in order for it not. >> to look. >> like it was a proposal. >> that. >> was. >> going to. blow a. >> massive hole. >> in the deficit, was to say that. eventually they're going to go away. >> and so now, once again, and you see. >> the budget. >> proposal that. was put. forward by house. >> republicans yesterday, they talk. >> about them expiring. >> essentially. >> because if you. >> don't allow them. >> to expire. >> there's no possible way that you can reach the. >> deficit reduction goals. >> that you're. >> talking about. >> without even. >> greater cuts. >> than they're. >> talking about. >> so the senate. >> wants the tax cuts permanently restored. they want

the extension. >> of them to. >> go on forever. how you get that to a place. >> where you also don't long. >> term blow. >> a hole in the deficit and start to rein in. the long term. debt problems that the country is facing, which republicans all say is their top priority. >> i think. >> it's going to be a very. difficult prospect here. >> over the next couple of weeks. >> can you argue that what we're seeing right now, with elon musk going around and slashing and burning his way through the federal government, is just a distraction for the tax cuts and the additions to the deficit. i mean, are they going to just come out and claim falsely? i'm going to give this to you, jeff, falsely, that they're going to get rid of all of this. don't worry. it's all going to come out in the wash. well, they're going to go over here and give a handout to corporations, oil companies, whatever. the richest among us, the people that donated to donald trump's campaign and everybody else in order to, to push through something that that on paper they shouldn't be doing if

they're actually trying to reduce the deficit. >> you know, i'm going to answer that, katie, by saying everything is a distraction and everything. >> is real. >> because that's just. the truth. i mean, they they're they're doing so many things in terms of programing, in terms of cuts, in terms of legislation, in terms of attacks, in terms of retribution. and yes, i mean, it's hard to keep up with, even when it's your job to keep up with it, which it is. for those of us covering the white house and covering this administration. but is it also a distraction for to kind of have a shiny object on one side so that people aren't paying attention to something on the on the left side? yeah, maybe it's it achieves that, but it doesn't make any of it less real. >> ryan, what's your expectation for how this is going to end up going? how do you reconcile those things? how are the next how's the next month or so going to play out? >> well, there's. >> two stages to this that i think are important as part of

this discussion, katie. the first. >> is remember. >> there is. >> no actual deadline for. >> them to get a reconciliation. package done. >> they theoretically could. >> have. >> until the. >> next election. >> to get that done. >> as long as they have control of both the house and senate. >> they can pass. >> that whenever they want. >> so they. >> have time. >> to figure this out. >> and my. >> guess is. >> that there's going. >> to be a combination. >> of. >> a lot of. >> creative accounting tricks. there's going to be a combination. >> of nipping around. >> the edges at some of these programs. i think they're probably. >> going to try and. >> argue that the doge cuts. >> are going. to allow. >> them to. >> implement these. >> tax cuts. >> there's going. >> to be a. >> lot of creative ways to present this. >> budget bill. >> in a way that. >> attempts to accomplish. >> all the goals. >> that they're looking for. the exact. form and. >> fashion of. >> how that. >> actually comes out in the. >> wash is yet. >> to. >> be determined. but that. >> i think. >> is almost. >> a. >> secondary conversation. >> to what. >> the focus should really be here over the next couple of weeks. and that's the existing government funding structure. >> which right. >> now is in real danger of. >> not. >> being reauthorized. i mean, we're less than a month away.

>> from a funding deadline, and that. >> requires democrats to participate. they have to get 60 votes in the senate in order to make that happen. i mean, we're barreling towards a government shutdown. all the focus is on reconciliation. >> but at that point. >> that really doesn't matter as much as. >> getting government. >> funding extended in the near future. >> and democrats will argue, why would we sign on to something when the executive is just going to take over and claim that he has the power of the purse, which is our constitutional right? everybody, thank you so much for joining us on this roller coaster of an hour. that's going to do it for me. i will be back. i will be back here at 3:00. chris jansing here at 3:00. chris jansing reports is i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid. an fda approved non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. call 800-983-0000 to arrange an appointment

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