>> okay. >> thank you. >> mr. president. did our prime minister persuade you not to put tariffs on the uk? and if i may, prime minister, do you think that vladimir putin is a man who will keep his word? thanks. >> he tried. he was working hard, i'll tell you that. he he earned whatever the hell they pay him over there. but he tried. we i think there's a very good chance that in the case of these two great, friendly countries, i think we could very well end up with a real trade deal where the tariffs wouldn't be necessary. we'll see. but he's, he earned whatever they whatever they pay him, he earned today. he was working hard at lunch. and i'm very receptive to it. i think we in all fairness, in all seriousness, i think we have a very good chance of arriving at a very good deal. jd and scott and howard, all the

people are working on it, and i think we have a good chance of arriving at a deal that could be terrific, really terrific for both countries. okay. >> thank you. on the second part of the question, i think my views on putin are pretty well rehearsed and pretty well known. and my concern is that if there's a deal and i hope there is a deal, that it must be a lasting deal, that it's not a temporary measure. and that is why i think it's really important that putin knows that this deal, a historic deal, which i very much hope comes about, is there is there and it's a lasting deal, and that we're able to deal with any inclination he has to go again or go further. >> i think we'll have two deals. i think we'll have a deal on ending the war, and i think we're going to end up with a great trade deal with you, and it's an honor to be with you. and i want to thank everybody very much. thank you very much.

>> thank you. thank you. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> hi, everyone. you've been watching donald trump and keir starmer, the prime minister. >> of. the united kingdom, holding a joint press conference. the two fielding. >> questions about ukraine and. tariffs and the middle east. trump today claiming he supports article five. >> of the nato. >> charter, also. saying earlier today. >> quote, i think. >> he'll keep. >> his word. i've known him a long time. >> that was donald trump on. >> vladimir putin. but we start. >> today with the fact check. >> on a story. that brings into sharp focus what's at stake in donald trump and elon musk, wanton destruction of federal agencies responsible for every. >> thing. >> for keeping airplanes safe in the skies, to preventing outbreaks of deadly diseases. take a trip back in time with us. remember this. >> good morning. new scare. growing fear. a day after the first man diagnosed with ebola in america dies.

>> the disease is now officially out of control. >> ongoing ebola concerns. >> here in. >> the u.s. the first screenings begin. today at new york. >> city's jfk. >> airport, where people whose trips. >> originate in. >> west african countries are going to be checked for symptoms of ebola. >> a doctor. >> just back from volunteering. >> to treat. ebola patients. >> in west africa is now. himself in isolation at a new york city hospital. >> here's the hard truth. >> in west africa, ebola is now. >> an epidemic of the likes that we. >> have not seen before. it's spiraling out of control. it is getting worse. it's spreading faster and exponentially. so this is. >> an epidemic that is not. just a threat to regional security. it's a. >> potential threat. >> to global security. >> so all that happened in the year 2014, and we play it for you today, because many of the people who were on the front lines and should be on the front lines today, fighting and preventing. >> an ebola outbreak. >> and preventing it from reaching our shores and

spreading. >> in america. >> are reportedly not there anymore. >> that's despite. >> assurances from elon musk that they. >> would be. here's what. >> he had to. >> say at yesterday's. >> cabinet meeting. >> we will make mistakes. we won't be perfect. but when we make mistake, we'll fix it very quickly. so, for example, with usaid, one of the things we accidentally canceled very briefly was ebola. ebola prevention. i think we all want ebola prevention. so we restored the ebola prevention immediately. and there was no interruption. >> there was no interruption. >> washington post. >> today. >> fact checking those comments with. >> this. >> quote, current and former usaid officials said that musk was wrong. usaid ebola prevention efforts have been largely halted. since elon musk and his. >> allies moved last month to. >> gut the global assistance agency and freeze its outgoing payments, they said. the teams and contractors that would be deployed to fight an ebola. outbreak have been dismantled.

while the trump administration. >> issued a waiver to allow. >> usaid to respond to an ebola outbreak in uganda last month. partner organizations were not promptly paid for their work. >> and usaid. >> own efforts. were sharply curtailed compared to past efforts to fight. >> ebola outbreaks. >> a former biden era usaid official tells the post that, quote, her former usaid team of 60 people working on disease response had been cut to about six staffers as earlier this week. she added that the infrastructure left in place after elon musk's slash and burn approach to usaid is now, quote, a 10th of what it was. and there are emergencies unfolding around the world as we speak. a mystery illness that kills many of its victims within 48 hours has led to 53 deaths in the democratic republic of congo. it's why some. >> of. >> the very same people who helped manage the ebola outbreak in 2014 are blasting elon musk

today and sounding the alarm. the president of refugees international and a former usaid official tweeting this quote. this is bunk from elon. they have laid off most of the experts. they are bankrupting most of the partner organizations. they have withdrawn from the w.h.o. and muzzled the cdc. what's left is the fig leaf effort to cover their politically. elon's vendetta against usaid and the federal workforce is shredding all of the systems that the u.s. government has built up to protect the u.s. homeland against global outbreak risks. scrambling to recall a few staff and issue some belated funding is just window dressing. that window dressing is where we start today with doctor craig spencer. he is a globally recognized emergency room doctor and brown university. >> school of public. >> health associate professor. he is also. >> the new york. >> city emergency room doctor who survived ebola in 2015 after treating. ebola patients in

guinea with doctors without borders. also joining us. >> is. >> director of the center for infectious disease research and policy at the university of minnesota. doctor michael osterholm is back. and also joining us is chief political columnist, host of the impolitic podcast for msnbc, national affairs analyst john heilemann. i want to start with you, doctor spencer. just remind people, i mean, i think i'm old enough to have lived through the scares of actually. >> and to. >> have. been shaped and haunted by the movie depiction. outbreak of what a mass spread of ebola would be like. but for folks who don't remember, will you just tell us a little bit about the disease? >> yeah. >> so ebola is one of the deadliest diseases we've ever encountered as a species. up to 80 to 90% of people who get it. or another related virus, marburg virus, can die. we have made great strides in the past

ten years, largely because of us support and funding for things like ebola, vaccines and treatments. but it is a disease that no one wants and we should wish on no one. we need to think about how we stamp out these outbreaks as quick as possible, everywhere around the world, where they may pop up so that we can prevent that devastation in places like uganda, rwanda, wherever this may be encountered, but also prevent them from spreading, spreading regionally as well as internationally. and the us, particularly usaid, the cdc and our relationships with the world health organization are absolutely fundamental and critical to making sure that we can do that and do that well. and those have been torn apart. >> and what is the risk right now? what is the global ebola picture look like right now as we come on the air? >> well. >> just about a month ago, uganda reported an ebola outbreak. the people that normally would get on a plane within hours did not. our experts, the best in the world, were not on those planes. i

know, because i spoke with them. usaid would be helping leverage transportation and finances and setting up entry and exit screening at the airport in uganda and entebbe. they did not do that. do you know who stepped in? another organization that's in the crosshairs of the trump administration, the world health organization. we need to be grateful that they stepped up. but are they going to be able to continue doing this as we pull back funding from them, and we make it so that our cdc staff aren't even able to talk to world health organization staff, which currently exists. >> doctor osterholm. when you are trying with this new administration as someone trying to cover them, to understand if they know how bad something is, they very rarely will backpedal. and that's what elon musk, clad in his black baseball cap, did yesterday on the specific and narrow issue of ebola. how bad is it? it's so bad, but the camera's rolling. elon musk backpedaled on ebola. it feels

like a tip of the iceberg story that underneath, a backpedal on ebola is a whole lot of other protections for the american people that have been erased. with sort of the slashing of line item after line item. will you talk about the current public health risks? >> well, first of all, i think we have to appreciate the fact that public health in this country and around much of the world is in chaos. what we're watching happen is a machete being taken to the system without any real understanding of what they're cutting, how or why, or for that matter, who they're cutting. when we think about what we need from a public health standpoint, it's surely based on the issue of equipment, of vaccines and so forth. but at the heart of any response is the individual, the professionals. so imagine if i owned a major airport today and i decided i wanted to do a cost cutting, and i fired all the fire prevention people or the fire responders, but i kept the trucks. what good would that be? and i think what

we're seeing right now is there are many different issues. it's not just ebola and it's not just international, it's right here in our own country. the cdc was literally absent for the last two weeks, dealing with a new emerging challenge that kids are getting with influenza infection. again, all part of this chaos. >> doctor osterholm. >> what it seems like, once again, your nine of the trump story. we as a country failed to prepare for this. i wonder if there are workarounds. i mean, do people have access to this information and data? absent the cdc's role in protecting the public? >> well, we're all scrambling trying to figure out how to respond. and, you know, that's taking up a lot of our time. and it's also taking our energy. and it's often leaving us very, very short of what we need. we already had challenges in this country in terms of how prepared we were for such things as the next pandemic. how are we dealing with many of the infectious disease, emerging

problems in the foodborne disease area, etc? so now to add this into it is in some ways we're really holding this plane together with bubble gum and tape. and i think people have to understand that. and the reason that that's important is because it's not about a political issue. it's about people will die. it's about people's lives. we're going to see, i think, many more serious illnesses in the measles outbreak in texas and new mexico right now. that was all about the fact that things that could have and should have been done weren't. and as a result, we're going to see people suffer needlessly. and in fact, many of these will be children who i think is the most unfortunate situation of all. >> john heilemann, i think the study of democracy that slides to autocracy almost always includes not just political divisions, but a public that is weakened by some sort of disease or sickness or lack of access to public health, public wellness. the twisted irony is that rfk

brand, if you will, in the manosphere, is the opposite of the reality. just want your thoughts on politically, how we arrived at this point. >> well. >> nicole. >> i mean, the first thing to say is, you know, we i know we're all members now of amnesia nation. you know, we don't remember anything even, you know, a few weeks ago, a few months ago, let alone a few years ago. but like, who would have thought that there would be public health ramifications that were this severe or potentially severe under an administration that cavalierly tossed aside the pandemic preparedness plan that the obama administration had left behind for it in 2017. you know, we remember if we. can remember anything about covid, we can remember that the trump administration was cavalier, indiscriminate, divorced from science in all of its dealings

with the pandemic, not just at the beginning of it. but until donald trump finally got. >> with the. >> program and drove us towards operation warp speed. so the notion. >> that now. >> in trump 2.0, where everything about the way that trump's approach to government has been amped up and adrenalized and become more indiscriminate, become more slashing, become less tethered to facts and. process and importantly, transparency, the fact that this is now happening seems to me to be like one of the least surprising things that we've seen so far in the trump administration. and to your point, i think, you know, your your pointing to something really important when you say that we saw a rare thing in seeing elon musk backpedal publicly at that cabinet meeting yesterday. but what has not happened is we have not gotten we still think they're lying effectively about about what has happened. he said, well, we saw that we were going to that we were cutting ebola funding. and so we immediately realized that that was a bad thing. so we didn't. so we fixed that. well,

according to every expert that's testifying right now in public media, it hasn't been fixed at all. and the problem still remains. and we have no idea how to verify what the standing is of not just the line item in the budget, but of the practical impact, the application of that money towards the problem. because this is contrary to what elon musk says over and over again. and donald trump says over and over again, this is the least transparent effort at government reduction in the size of government or reform of government. >> whatever you want. >> to call it. it's the least transparent effort. it either one of our lifetimes. >> yeah. i mean, doctor spencer, that seems to be the challenge for the public that if they wanted to fix it today. right, if they saw you on on with my colleague rachel maddow last night and here right now. and they said, you know what? we're not messing around with ebola, for pete's sake. it feels like so much dismantling has gone on

without any efforts at backpedaling. i wonder if you could just just what would that look like if they called you today and said, help us set up the systems to protect the homeland and our and our partners from an ebola outbreak? >> i think it's. >> a great question. and the point is, is correct. there isn't a single line item in our budget for ebola prevention. it is funding usaid so it can do that work internationally. it is funding the cdc so it can do that work abroad as well as preparation here in this country. it is supporting the world health organization, who we've worked alongside in every single ebola outbreak ever. i just want to say something very, very clearly to everyone that's listening and anyone that isn't listening. what we are seeing right now in terms of the undermining of us abdication and leadership internationally, is a reflection of what's already happening in this country in terms of how we prepare for and respond to public health threats. we have the first measles death in a decade, the first measles death in a kid since 2003. that's before the

iphone even existed. you have this administration mistakenly fired hundreds of nuclear safety experts and tried to find them and hire them back. they mistakenly fired usda experts working on the bird flu and are trying to find them to hire them back. they start by saying, we made a mistake, and we're fixing it with all of those things. and with ebola funding and all the other things that are out there to keep us safe, they have cut them. they've destroyed them, they've scraped the letters off the building. they have not fixed them because they cannot fix them, because they don't want to fix them. >> doctor osterholm, this is so reminiscent of some of our conversations and your inconvenient truth during the pandemic. but people are are back to a dynamic of finding their own trusted sources. and if you live in texas or you worry that you're under vaccinated from the measles. what what should people do? where should they go? who should they call? >> well, first of all, let me just make one point. i think that's really a critical issue

here. what we've seen is just the start of the dismantling of the public health agencies and the public health expertise in this country. we know that in the next several weeks, there are going to be massive layoffs at a number of the federal agencies that are so critical to public health. cdc, the fda, the nih. and i just want people to understand we're just getting started. so as much as we're here today talking about the challenges, good luck in terms of where people go. i think your state and local health departments are largely still a very good source of information. but then we heard just two weeks ago, the surgeon general of louisiana say we're no longer going to support community based immunization programs. you're on your own. we're starting to see states themselves also being impacted like this. so it is a challenge. and all i can do is say that i hope that anyone who wants to get a vaccine for their child should be able to get a vaccine in their community as quickly as possible. >> i mean, to your point, doctor osterholm, the new york times reports that the fda canceled a

meeting of vaccine experts scheduled to advise on flu shots. i think we have had an. virulent flu strains circulating, certainly through through kids and through schools in this country. is that an example of where people will not be struggling both to access vaccine information and to access the vaccines themselves? >> well, in fact, nicole, it's actually worse than you just detailed. the meeting that got canceled at the fda was an advisory group to help the fda decide what flu vaccines strain should be used next year. but don't forget, last week, the advisory committee on immunization practices at the cdc was canceled. and so what's happening is when you don't have these meetings, basically you can go ahead and make policies. you can do what you want to do without the scrutiny of the public experts. and remember, these are experts who participate in these meetings. this is not just the public. and so i think this is just the beginning. it's a harbinger of things to come.

>> doctor michael osterholm, doctor craig spencer, we're going to need you. let me put you on, on, on alert that we're going to turn to you often. thank you. john heilemann sticks around for the hour. when we come back, more damage from the trump administration's cuts and manufactured chaos happening at our health agencies. life saving clinical trials are just one of the many things elon musk has pulled funding from. up next, a military veteran with stage four cancer who fears he could lose the cancer treatment that has saved his life. plus, elon musk's starlink company could be on the receiving end of a very lucrative contract from, you guessed it, the us government, us taxpayers. and later in the program, donald trump once again siding with vladimir putin because, you know, as he said, they've gone through a lot of things together. all those stories and more when deadline. white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. >> safelite repair.

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♪ ♪ postings. the flag replacement program got started by a good friend of mine, a navy vet, saw a flag at the office that needed to be replaced and said wouldn't this be great if this could be something that we did for anyone? comcast has always been a community driven company. this is one of those great examples of the way we're getting out there. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings.

>> of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government now. >> can discriminate against. >> the citizens of the country. >> we are all. >> watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends. >> saturday. >> and sunday. >> mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> what we do. >> is. try to cut right. >> to the bone of what we're seeing. >> in washington that day. >> the trump administration's drastic cuts are already having an alarming impact on medical research in our country. already, the new york times says that nih has stopped vetting future studies for cancer, alzheimer's, heart disease and other ailments. there are also concerns about the future of current life saving treatments that rely on money from the nih. things like the clinical trial that our next guest is participating in. it saved his life in his own battle with stage four cancer, and it continues to keep him alive. that trial is at johns hopkins university, where leaders have sued to block cuts to nih funds.

they say support about 600 ongoing clinical trials, including pediatrics and children's health, heart and vascular studies and cancer. joining our coverage is kyle lewis. kyle is a us navy veteran battling stage four cancer successfully a clinical trial at johns hopkins funded by nih saved his life. the funding freeze means that he can't continue with his treatment if he needs it again. thank you so much for being here. kyle, i saw chewbacca, your canine friend behind you, and we were very dog friendly. if he wants to say hello. but take take us inside. what what what your thoughts are as this news that impacts you directly sort of comes in fast and furious. >> yeah, if i could. if you don't mind, i'm just going to share a quick snippet of my background so people kind of get a feel for and put a face to some of these cuts that are happening, because i know we're all seeing numbers flying around

and, you know, we're seeing things like nih thrown around. and a lot of people may not necessarily know who they are and what they do. so i'm happy to be here to share my story, kind of put some of these things into a more human angle for people to understand. so as you can probably see from my background here, i'm a california kid at heart. and i joined the navy way back in the late 1990s during the relative calm of the late 1990s. and my hope was that i was going to see and surf all over the world. and then nine over 11 happened, and that changed things a little bit. and i got to see parts of the world i hadn't anticipated seeing. and so after i got out of the navy, i spent another 15 years as a counterterrorism analyst working for the us government. in fact, i was working at us cyber command when i was diagnosed with stage four cancer in january of 2020. and i was given weeks to live in january of 2020 at johns hopkins. and my doctor said, look, you have to start this very aggressive and experimental

treatment now or you are not going to be here in a few weeks. and those drugs, which again, as you mentioned, were funded by nih, that clinical trial saved my life. it is literally the only reason that i am here today. and that is now at risk, as you mentioned, is clinical trials for millions of other americans across the country who have cancer and other life threatening diseases. and people, again, as you mentioned, who are far, far more vulnerable than i am, including children. >> kyle, can you tell us what would have happened if the trump administration had come in at a different point in your treatment, when you were in process and relying on the nih program? >> yeah. >> the drugs would have stopped, like immediately. this funding doesn't just pay for, you know, pieces and parts of it. it pays for the entire clinical trial, including things like just turning on the lights and paying the doctors to spend their time

doing this. so it's a complete nonstarter when this funding is shut off or frozen. nothing happens at all. >> kyle. >> what is the thing that people don't understand about government funded cancer research? i've tried to educate myself, but i think some republicans say, well, the private sector can do that, but the private sector is in a money making paradigm, for better or for worse. can you talk about not just what the government does, perhaps better than anyone, including the private sector, but who it helps? >> yeah, yeah, it helps everybody. i mean, you know, my first option, if it were, say, five years ago, sorry, this was five years ago. i got to go five years before that. so we'll call it ten years ago. i would have had to have my system flushed with the same chemotherapy drugs that everyone hates, that have been used since the 60s and 70, just dumping absolute poison into my body. and so i'm glad

that i did not get to i did not have to go down that route, but that's only because the government has supplied funding to universities and other research centers to help develop these experimental drugs, which, by the way, the drugs that i'm on are still not fda approved yet for my type of cancer, which was melanoma that spread throughout my body. there's chewbacca back there, by the way. that's my comfort dog. i see. he helped save my life, too. i can't leave him out of it. >> they always do. >> they always do. >> right. i know, i know. but, no, it's absolutely. it would be impossible for, you know, any of these newer treatments to be developed without the medical funding that these medical research centers are getting from the us government. >> kyle. >> what would it be like for someone right now who maybe is told your story? you know, these experimental drugs are so promising. me, me. kyle. and then the cutting gets cut off immediately. what would that. can you just take us inside

that. >> horrendous, horrendous. i can't even imagine having to tell someone that five years ago. you know, i had cancer in 40 different places in my body. i was i was a goner for sure. and these drugs saved my life. and to have them available now to so many people out there, it's an it's an option. it's obviously still a clinical trial. so not everyone can get these but it's getting there. and so to have people know that these drugs exist and know that some other guy got this treatment, but you can't because this administration has cut off medical research funding. i mean, that's horrendous. that's it's not only horrendous, it's just stupid. this is not the way to do business. this is not how we take care of ourselves, our fellow americans. >> well, or our or our veterans, especially those who worked in counterterrorism. you sort of dropped that in. what are your thoughts on, on, on, on what the

country is facing in terms of big shifts and big? i mean, a lot of the cuts, i think 30% of where where the federal funds have been cut from impact veterans, either in health care or other matters. i mean, what what is the conversation among veterans about these draconian slashes to the spending? >> right. i mean, these are veterans. these are people that serve their country in uniform for, you know, in wartime. we were at war for 20 years. and so we all have experiences. and so some of us come home and take other paths. but yeah, so many of us, as you just pointed out, the current estimate is like 30% of the recent firings are are veterans, and they want to serve their country in a different way, and they go on to become park rangers. they go on to work at some of these more rural or far flung places, you know, away from dc to help out their local communities, which is, you know, fantastic work. i think anyone would get behind that. and it's

not just security work. it's helping with things like farm subsidies and all other kinds of things. and so it's just it's awful to see this demographic of people that that demographic being veterans, just being treated this poorly by this administration. it's horrible. you know, not unexpected, though. you know, we've got a draft dodger who's running the show or theoretically running the show. so can't say we're terribly surprised by this. >> kyle, we are so grateful, as you said, to sort of understand the human side of a story that's hard to tell with line items and numbers. and if we can continue to call on you, if the if the if monterey and santa cruz are from where you hail, we hope that provides some peace. and we loved meeting chewbacca. but but we're going to need you to help tell this story and give voice to other people impacted. so we will be calling on you again. thank you so much for your time

today. >> absolutely. thank you so much. >> up next for us, donald trump says there are no conflicts of interest when it comes to elon musk. today, another headline proves that is not the whole proves that is not the whole truth at all. ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. botox® effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness, neck and injection site pain, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like als,

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conflict. if there's no conflict, i guess, what difference does it make? but we won't let him do any of anything having to do with the conflict. >> are you personally. >> checking to make sure there's. >> no conflicts? >> yeah, i am. >> he answers. >> to you. >> sure he does. first of all, he wouldn't do it. and second of all, we're not going to let him do anything with his. a conflict of interest. >> wow. two weeks later. and yes, apparently they are going to let him do it even when there's a conflict and even when they're letting him do will impact everyone who flies. elon musk's starlink is set to score a major government contract involving the faa communications system. new reporting in the washington post details how the federal aviation administration is close to canceling a $2.4 billion contract to overhaul a communications system that serves as the backbone of the nation's air traffic control system, and awarding the work to elon musk's starlink. that's according to two people briefed on the plans. it would be an

especially extraordinary step for the typically cautious faa, whose systems are vital to the safety of millions of air travelers every single day. the existing contract was awarded to verizon in 2023, with the aim of upgrading a platform that different air traffic control facilities and faa offices used to communicate with one another. this, of course, is coming two months into a year filled with harrowing and deadly aviation accidents all across our country. joining our conversation, host of the bulwark podcast, msnbc political analyst tim miller. john heilemann is still with us. i mean, john, if you stitch together. right. sort of the first three stories of the day, it's not just conflicts. it's conflicts with potential deadly consequences if things go sideways. >> right. i mean. i nicole, i swear, you guys, you and i are. >> on some kind of telepathic. >> wavelength because. >> i'm sitting here listening to. i've seen this story already

about the about the grift here and the starlink contract. and obviously, we've all seen these harrowing obviously the collision over national airport, but the harrowing footage of the midair of the near miss on at midway yesterday. everyone's everyone i know in america is freaking out right now about about airline safety and we're. so here's the story of grift in which the company that we're going to now take, we're going to privatize this piece of the faa, and we're going to give it to the guys who missed ebola when they were going through the funding, when they were doing their doge stuff, just decided that, oh, yeah, sorry we missed the ebola thing. we'll go back and fix that. and as we just heard, it hasn't, of course, been fixed because it's an example of the kind of indiscriminate, brainless chopping, hacking and cutting that these guys are doing. is there any company that you less trust with the safety of our

airspace right now than the one run by the guys? who the guy who's most brilliant people are running around the government missing ebola when they make cuts to the public health infrastructure? no. i mean, it'. not it's not just outlandish and ludicrous. it would in any other circumstance in a fictional world, it would be hilarious. it would be the stuff of the highest satire. but here we are. >> yeah. and i mean, tim miller, the problem for donald trump is that elon musk has not displayed competence so far. i mean, the grassroots of the republican party, including the maga base, have their hair on fire. they're so angry about cuts that impact them in their ruby red districts. and now everyone and anyone that could get on an airplane, even super duper rich people who fly private, have to fly down the same air highways as the rest of us. it is usually

the incompetence that explains most institutional failures, but it is also the thing that deprives the public of confidence. when someone something like this happens, that's sort of layered on top of a grift, as john said. >> yeah. >> this kind. >> of listening to you guys. >> talk about this, what strikes me is it just. reminds us. >> of all of trump's. >> businesses, right? >> like that almost becomes an eye rolling thing to say at this point because we're in year nine. of this. but i do think. because we focus so much on the. >> cruelty. >> like the. >> extremism, you know, and all the other various. >> issues associated. >> with. >> with trump and. >> how. >> he's degraded. >> our politics. sometimes i do feel like you kind of forget. >> about that. >> like the most. distinguished feature of. >> him in. >> the his private sector life was all of his. >> business failures. >> like all of. >> his bankruptcies. >> his high profile bankruptcies. i mean, everything that he. ran was a disaster, like up to and. >> like basically. >> including his first campaign,

really, which like won in spite of the fact that there of there disorganization, disorganization. and so, you know. >> it isn't that. >> surprising that. we are going to see. >> you know, this type of erratic behavior. >> and that there's going to be. consequences from it. >> like the elon musk like addition. >> to it. >> just having him running. >> around the government, you know, like like an. >> animal that has gone. rabid and like cutting things haphazardly. >> and firing nuclear people and rehiring them. and john. mentioned ebola, but. it's like star. wars ended and then. >> and then brought back and then ended again. and. >> you know, people who. >> have lost jobs that are essential workers, you know, across the country, as. >> you. >> mentioned, nicole. >> like. there are republican. >> workers who are really upset, who are calling in to. >> talk radio. >> shows, writing. >> in. >> writing in to us, saying things like, i, i thought i was one of the. >> good ones. i thought. >> that. >> he, i thought he. was going to go after those. >> bad bureaucrats. >> that don't work. >> so. >> i mean. >> it is a total cluster at this

point. and i think that the corruption side of it. it just sort of adds another layer. >> but like. >> the thing that's affecting people's. >> lives most mostly is just. >> the just the incompetence of it all. >> well, and the thing that will impact everyone's economic fortunes will be the fear factor. people don't have to fly, and they don't trust that they'll be safe flying. they won't. i have to take a break. i want to tell everybody what's coming up. there's some incredible reaction from our friends in europe to the idea of elon musk being in charge of air travel. we just sneak in a break. i'll share that on the other side. >> there is so much to talk about tonight. there is so much to cover. we also see voters imploring democrats and you specifically to fight harder. what can you tell voters tonight who say you could be doing more than you're doing? can you tell us what's going on in the senate right now? do you know what the doge group was trying to access at social security that would

have caused the administrator to resign? right now, in our time today. the unpopularity of what they're doing really does create real political pressure at the source. >> to stop. >> it, to at least slow. >> him down. >> i wish my tv. provider let me choose what i pay for. >> we let you do that. >> i like. >> the sound of that. >> choosing customize. >> choosing customize. >> if you're living with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis or active psoriatic arthritis... symptoms can sometimes hold you back. but now there's skyrizi, so you can be all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ yeah, i feel free to bare my skin ♪ ♪ yeah, that's all me ♪ ♪♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ with skyrizi, you can show up with 90% clearer skin... and if you have psoriatic arthritis. skyrizi can help you move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections

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ask your doctor or pharmacist about capvaxive. (♪♪) >> we're back with john and tim. it strikes me that both of you fly an awful lot to do your jobs. how do you feel when you get in an airplane these days, holman? >> i take a lot of drugs usually. >> when i'm. >> on airplanes, so i try to feel nothing at all, but. okay, but but i gotta say, you know, the idea that the nation's skies are are now overseen by donald trump, you know, businessmen so incompetent that he went broke in the casino business. and elon musk, who tim just described as an animal gone rabid. and i just want to add an animal gone rabid armed with a chainsaw. yeah, that makes me a little means that i have to up my dosage a little bit before i get on my planes. i'm on my flights now, nicole. >> i'm for happiness through whatever it takes. i mean, to that point, though, musk tweeted

this today, quote, there's a shortage. this is elon musk telling, quote, there's a shortage of top notch air traffic controllers. if you have retired but are open to returning to work, please consider doing so. elon musk, i think, forced out the head of the faa and laid off 400 faa employees like four days ago. and the idea that, like all the retired air traffic control people are i mean, i'm not even on x like the bet that they're all on his sort of cesspool of disinformation is bananas to him. >> yeah. well, in. >> addition to that, you know, not that, you know, facts matter these. >> days anymore. but joe. >> biden had a plan to hire more faa officials. so, like, it is kind of true that. >> we needed. >> more air traffic controllers. and that was in the budget for 2025. and not only was that canceled by. >> doge indiscriminately. >> but as you mentioned, additional people like people who are probationary were fired. then they tried to. >> bring some.

>> of them back, and the whole whole thing has been a disaster. and here's the thing. i'm no fan. like, i'm open to the idea that that the verizon contract, like, was was not, you know, i don't have any expertise on this, right. that they that they were updating the systems and that the verizon as a contractor wasn't. >> doing. >> a great job. i don't know, but this is why you don't have one of the largest government contractors, somebody. >> who is sending. >> insane, drug fueled allegedly tweets 20 hours a day, like, as the shadow president making these decisions, right. like, this is why you bring in people that don't have conflicts to look at this and to say and to judge and say, hey, do. >> we need. >> new air traffic controllers? do we need to bring people out of retirement? >> should we look. >> to see if there's somebody besides verizon we should contract with? we have some concerns. right. like that's how any normal business or government would handle this. and unfortunately we're not going to have that for at least four years. >> human. this is what politico reports today from a european

aviation dumbstruck by musk's takeover of us air traffic control. quote. is mr. musk the right person? i mean, all of the things he builds have a terrible tendency to burst into flames. that was andrew charlton, managing director of the aviation advocacy consultancy, asked if the european aviation sector was concerned about the ex boss's new task to fix the us air traffic management, charlton said quote, yes, 100%. i think the word you're after is dumbstruck. i mean, they're freaking out. they're watching with slack jawed amazement. the point being, it isn't just donald trump's capitulation to russia that has people gobsmacked. it's turning over the safety of the airplanes in our skies. to elon musk that has at least aviation experts in europe. quote slackjawed. >> i mean, i i'm not it doesn't surprise me, you know, in the least. nicole and i really i want to emphasize tim's point. i

mean, what none of us here are experts in, in any of these fields, right. and i think what what what is what has people slack jawed isn't isn't merely the sight of elon musk who who has look, it has some brilliance, has some areas of expertise, has things where if you were seeking to renovate the government, if you were reinventing government, as al gore used to say in one of the famous prior efforts at doing this stuff, you would call elon musk in to consult on a number of different areas where you might think that the government could do things better, faster, cheaper, more efficiently. all of those things. but having one guy and a bunch of young men with no particular domain expertise whatsoever running rampant through the government making decisions on critical infrastructure, on things where lives are at stake, where they have no more expertise than we do. >> right. >> is bonkers. and the europeans, the europeans are the ones who are sitting over there

going, hey, you guys, these are not just decisions about like code. and on the social platform, like, how do we figure out how the dms work on on x? >> this is. >> stuff that has is again critical infrastructure. lives are at stake when it comes to public health and when it comes to airline safety and a whole bunch of other things. nuclear safety. as tim mentioned, it is nuts to have people with no domain expertise making these decisions absolutely bonkers. >> there's nothing else to say after you drop a bonkers, we're going to leave it there for today. tim miller and john heilemann safe traveling to both of you. my friends, thank you for spending time with us on these stories and break for us. these stories and break for us. we'll be (man) got one more antoine. (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪

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the munich security conference. and so they landed in fort lauderdale this morning, much to the chagrin of florida's republican governor, ron desantis, who said this, quote, florida is not a place where you are welcome with that type of conduct in the air. i don't know how it came to this end. quote. neither do we, ron. neither do we. up next for us, another round of shocking but not surprising comments from donald trump today about his cozy relationship with vladimir putin. we'll have that story more when deadline. white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. >> i told you i don't need these anymore. i have sling. >> okay. >> morning. i only let sling deliver. >> the news. >> i need. >> to stay informed. thank you very much. nice one. >> nope. >> sling gives. >> us all the. >> news we. >> want in. >> a quick and. >> reliable manner. >> and at a wonderful price. >> this critical. >> time calls for. >> the critical news coverage

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reinventing your business at. >> msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> what we do is. >> try to. >> cut right to the bone of what we're seeing in washington that day.

>> mr. president, would you be willing to do if vladimir putin did not stick to the terms of any deal on ukraine. >> if he not. >> what he did not stick to the terms of any deal on ukraine. >> because he. >> has a history of not sticking to his word when it comes to international agreements. >> i think he'll keep his word. i think i think he's i've spoken to him. i've known him for a long time now. you know, i've known him. we had we had to go through the russian hoax together. that was not a good thing. it's not fair. that was a rigged deal and had nothing to do with russia. >> we had to go through the russia hoax together. hi again, everybody. it's 5:00 in new york. first he took the side and the word of vladimir putin over his own intelligence agencies in public at a summit in helsinki during his first term. and now within the curved walls of the oval office, donald trump did it again, taking the side of russia's dictator over the findings of multiple investigations and intelligence findings, saying that russia's interference in the 2016

election was a hoax. a stunning but at this point not at all surprising remark that only deepens trump's break with american institutions, american democracy and american expertise. another notch in the administration's shift toward autocratic tendencies. peter baker of the new york times reports that what he's seeing now. quote, brings back memories of putin's moscow in the early days. baker spent four years in moscow. when putin first got into office. and now, 20 years later, draws parallels to what is unfolding here in the us about trump's second term. he writes this quote the news media is being pressured. lawmakers have been tamed. career officials deemed disloyal are being fired. prosecutors named by a president who promised retribution or targeting perceived adversaries in dropping cases against allies or others who do his bidding. billionaire tycoons who once considered themselves masters of the universe are prostrating themselves before him. america

is no russia. the history there is so fraught and complicated. certainly, many russian journalists would still rather live in washington these days than moscow, confident that america's tradition of free press and democratic ideals remains far stronger than what exists back home. but in decades of reporting in washington under republicans and democrats, it has never felt quite like this. that's where we start the hour. some of our favorite experts and friends, professor of history at new york university, ruth ben-ghiat, is here. also joining us, voting rights attorney marc elias, the founder of democracy docket. mark, the attacks against you are really the canary in the coal mine, if you will. they've been incessant since you defeated donald trump in court, i think 60 out of 61 times after his defeat in 2020. and just about everything that that that peter notes, there is something you've tangled with. >> yeah, that's exactly right.

including going back to my time as the general counsel for hillary clinton's campaign, remember? you know, the fact is that the democratic national. committee was hacked. by russian intelligence services. and donald trump, rather than denounce that, he mocked it and suggested that he wanted russia to release emails that might be in their possession. you know, it's interesting to hear donald trump say that, that he has been through the russia hoax with vladimir putin, and it has nothing to do with russia. i'm not quite sure i even know what to make of that. but at every stage donald trump has, has chosen the path of believing vladimir putin and siding with vladimir putin and not and undermining and denigrating the united states, the united states, intelligence agencies, united states law enforcement, and, of course, our allies abroad. and you know, the thing that keeps coming to mind for me

is i read peter baker's story and others is hannah arendt's description of the eichmann trial in jerusalem and her famous phrase, the banality of evil. and what she was saying. there was in large measure that the people who were around adolf hitler, these were not great men. these were very ordinary people. these were people who were not extraordinary. they fancied. >> themselves. >> you know, extraordinarily smart and extraordinarily bright. they were not. they were they were just mediocre. yes, men. and it is that banality of evil that i feel like we are seeing. where is marco rubio? you know, marco. rubio claimed to be a cold warrior. where is he today? he is. just one of those mediocre men staying, saying yes to donald trump. where where are the republicans in the house and senate who have claimed to be cold warriors, to stand up for american freedom and values abroad? they are the banality of evil. they are the they are the ordinary, mediocre

people who, when their country needs them to do the right thing, instead fancy them part of some some big movement, when in fact they are just pathetic losers. >> well, i mean, to follow up with you, marc elias, i think it's more than being mediocre men. it's being dishonest men. tucker carlson called donald trump a, quote, demonic force. jd vance called donald trump, quote, america's hitler. mitch mcconnell called donald trump, quote, a despicable human being. i've been on this program for close to a decade. i've never described him in terms that harsh. these are people who hate him, but are part of the lie to the maga base and the country. and now, as they refuse to stand between donald trump and vladimir putin and what seems like his desire to capitulate over the war in ukraine, refuse to stand up for american ally ukraine. >> yeah, they will be known in history as traitors to the

country. i mean, these are people who, you know, were given every advantage in in this country's history. they were given the best opportunities in education. they were elected to high office. and rather than use those opportunities, rather than use their positions to advance the interests of their constituents, rather than use their power to help people who are less fortunate, rather than use their influence to keep, you know, freedom front and center in our foreign policy abroad. instead, they were willing to sell all of that for the moment of fame and glory that they got standing next to donald trump's side. and history will remember them for the villains that they are. and, you know, i can't say that that is going to come soon enough. but i can promise you this every single day there are people who are fighting to make sure that they don't succeed. and we may win. we may lose, but we will continue that fight. >> ruth, what is it? what is the role of republicans who

privately have the harshest assessments of donald trump? i mean, i think i've had i've had a large swath of democratic officials in many dozens and dozens of former republicans, everyone from from chris christie to mark esper to, i mean, and i've never heard donald trump describe the way tucker carlson, jd vance and mitch mcconnell describe him. demonic america's hitler despicable all quotes. what is it that makes his most harsh critics become his enablers and accomplices? well, i'm glad mark talked about i mentioned hannah arendt because what we're looking at here. is a moral collapse. and i'm just going to mention it's been a long road of him, you know, domesticating the party. >> he's coming. >> in to this new administration with a completely a party that has become his personal tool. there's been various stories,

gabriel. >> sherman and others about gop powerful senators. >> powerful people who are afraid of trump. and here i must mention, because i want to mention it every day, that donald trump tried to overthrow the government and the genius of what he did, seen from a. >> diabolical. >> authoritarian perspective, is that he targeted republicans as. well as democrats. his mob that he incited. went after mike pence, his stalwart, faithful, you know, vice president. and what that showed from an authoritarian perspective is. >> that no one. >> was off limits. that the mob incited by trump, would harm anybody. and so people, you know, republicans. >> were. >> calling their family members, they thought they were going to die that day. and then they have had to kind of forget that trauma and publicly. debase themselves by popping up. >> and saying. >> yes, we're here. >> for. >> you, leader. and that causes

a kind of. >> i think. >> betrayal of yourself, because. authoritarianism doesn't. >> only require you. >> to betray others, it requires you to lose your. >> own conscience. >> that's what mark was also saying. >> by. >> mentioning a rent. and this is very sad. it's very sad for the country. but that's when that collapse happens. people can lend themselves to all. >> of. >> a sudden siding with vladimir putin, who is a murderous. >> kleptocrat and. >> leading the country down that path. >> i want to bring into our conversation marty baron. he's the former executive editor of the washington post. under his direction and leadership, the washington post won a pulitzer prize for its coverage of russia's interference in america's elections. marty, it's an honor to have you here. i just want to read some of the headlines of the stories that were submitted for the for the pulitzer that the washington post won. national security adviser mike flynn discussed sanctions with russian ambassador, despite denials.

pete sessions, then the attorney general, met with russian envoy twice last year, encounters he later did not disclose. trump asked intelligence chiefs to push back against fbi collusion probe after comey revealed its existence. doubting the intel, trump pursues putin and leaves the russia threat unchecked. all those stories. groundbreaking at the time, sort of a stop. whatever we were talking about when they when they broke. and still true and still very much animating everything donald trump does in that oval office, including to today when he said, quote, vladimir putin and i, we went through the hoax together, still calling it a hoax. why? why do you think this is the alternate reality that he can't quit? >> well, because it. >> serves his political interest to say to say that, i mean, the reality is that it was well documented that russia intervened in the election. and, you know, i mean, he keeps

saying that, you know, we suggested there was collusion and all of that. but those stories did not say that there was a lot of communication that was taking place. >> russia did intervene. >> in the election to help donald trump. and look, it's to his advantage to say that this none of this, none of this happened and that it meant absolutely nothing and that it was a hoax. so it's just it's just his political advantage to dismiss the whole thing. >> to a point, though, right? i mean, because right now, 81% of all americans distrust vladimir putin. i think about six aren't sure. even fox news hosts seem perplexed in their lines of questioning with trump. national security officials who in the case of marco rubio ten days ago had a very different tune on ukraine. i mean, how do you if you pull the thread forward and watch him now, operate in this very dicey space with european allies and ukrainian president zelensky? how do you how do you

see that sort of decade now of reporting on a shared mission, at least, to influence the outcome of the 2016 election? marty. >> well, you. >> know, i. >> don't know. >> that. >> i can make a direct connection between what's happening now and what happened. what happened then? clearly, he identifies with dictators, with autocrats. he's always done that. he envies the powers that they have. he's envied the powers that vladimir putin has. he's envied the powers. he's modeled himself essentially after viktor orban in hungary, who is an autocrat who has become autocratic, essentially. he has expressed admiration for xi jinping and kim jong un and other types of autocrats, and he aspires to have the same kind of power. and so he identifies with those people, and he's actually envious of the powers that they have. >> one of the things that peter baker writes about today is the very aggressive assault on the

press. how would you counsel journalists to cover trump's second term as president? >> you should be very aggressive. we should look, i mean, our job as journalists is to look behind the curtain and beneath the surface to find out what's really happening in government. that's the original mission for the press in this country. that's why we have a first amendment. you know, james madison, who was the principal author of the first amendment, talked about freely examining public characters and measures. that's how he justified a first amendment that we needed that in this country. and the key word, one of the key words there is examining, and that means that we're not stenographers and that we are supposed to hold power to account. and so we should continue with that mission. our job is to look at what the powerful in this country are doing. and there's nobody more powerful than the in the world than the president of the united states. so we should deploy all of our reporting resources to find out what's happening in this, this government, which is really unlike any government

that i think any of us have seen in our in our lifetime, and which is asserting extraordinary powers. and, and exercising those powers. and so as the press, as an independent press, we should tell the american public what's actually happening in their government. that's our responsibility. that's our duty. >> ruth, your study of autocracies, i think, clearly warned all of us that this would be a major and early friction point with donald trump should he have prevailed. i think in every one of our conversations before november 5th, we talked about it. what do you make? are you are you surprised? is he moving faster? is he moving more slowly? i mean, what do you make of his direct and frontal challenges to the press so far? >> well. >> i think he it i mean, what he did with the with the republican party, which was so effective, was to impose a kind of party discipline. so they had. unified

messaging and they essentially had unified messaging around supporting his his big lie. >> that he. >> won the election. and that's important. >> that's like the foundational fiction. >> because it justified the january. >> 6th insurrection. >> so he comes into. >> office knowing. >> how important unified. messaging is. so he has been greatly advantaged by zuckerberg and bezos and others who have even before, you know, he took office, decided to cast their lot with him. >> even zuckerberg. >> saying, oh, we're. >> not going to fact check anymore. >> who does. >> that benefit that benefits donald trump, who is very loose with the truth. >> and. >> you know, the washington post did an investigation of cited many times of how, you know, the over 19,000, up to 30,000 lies he told during his first administration. so he knows how important it is to have the press on your side. and that's why he kept suing the press. you know, all of the suits he made

and continues to make to intimidate them. and that's also the authoritarian playbook, the 21st century. you sue the press, you harass the press, and then you wait for corporate self-protection to kick in. >> i studied. >> berlusconi's italy, and the same thing happened there in orban. i mean. it's part of the pattern. and now we have it. marc elias marty makes some of the same points you make about how the press should be on an aggressive footing. in some ways, it's the only one that stands a chance, right? i mean, autocrats sniff out weakness, they sniff out. and then the republicans are the perfect example. their weakness enabled the collapse of the republican party as a party that functions in any way that the founders imagined it to function. your thoughts on on how the media has is fulfilling the mission as as marty baron lays out for us. >> look, i. >> think much of the legacy corporate media is failing and it's failed. and i think that, first of all, marty baron is a

hero. he not just from his time at the washington post and the work they did then, but frankly, his willingness to speak out now. you know, i mean, let's let's give him a lot of credit for that. that's not an easy you know. >> i assume that's not an easy. >> thing to do, but but here is the reality. if this were happening in another country, if one of the wealthiest men in russia who wanted contracts with vladimir putin happened to own pravda or own a big daily newspaper in the nation's capital, and all of us started putting restrictions on what the opinion section would say. we wouldn't be dancing around like we wouldn't be saying, well, you know, there's a separation between this part of the media and that part of the media and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. we would say what it is, it's an oligarch controlled media. and like a lot of the corporate press, they are not victims of an extortion. they are payers of bribes. you know, i'm not sure that that i would i would describe the men sitting up on that stage at the inaugural as the victims of a shakedown.

these are all powerful people. these are all billionaires. these are all oligarch oligarchs who control the media in critical ways, who stand to benefit personally. their other corporate interests stand to benefit substantially by throwing in with donald trump. so i think the media plays a vital role. i think the media is one of the few safeguards, along with election free and fair elections along with the courts. but i don't think that's going to come from believing in the fairy tale that the oligarch controlled media is somehow going to stand up to donald trump at the right time. i think that that they have made a decision that selling rockets is more important than selling truth and newspapers. i think they have made a decision that they're willing to peddle false information online for a few extra dollars. if they if they if they're in, if they're if they're in, you know, in league with donald trump. and so i don't i just don't buy the whole like they're being shaken down thing. they're not the victims

here. okay. cry me a river. the billionaires they're not the victims. >> we're going to get marty's response on the other side of a very short break. we also want to ask him his thoughts on what's happening at his old newspaper, the washington post, where brilliant journalists are an open revolt after owner jeff bezos totally revamped the post opinion section. and many of our most favorite journalists from the post have fled that newsroom. also ahead for us, the economy showing real signs of weakness and slowing amid all the chaos in the early days of the second trump presidency. we're already seeing rising costs and falling consumer confidence. and that's all. before most of trump's policies, the ones that benefit the wealthy and hurt those who need the most help, go into full effect. also joining us, the director of political thrillers like homeland and zero day, on what it takes to create compelling stories for the screen when all too often the real world is stranger than fiction. lesli linka glatter will be our guest later in the

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powering possibilities. comcast business. news on capitol hill. >> mounting questions over. >> the future. >> of tiktok in the us. >> president trump has promised. >> to carry out the largest deportation force in american history. >> reporting from philadelphia. >> el paso and. >> the. >> palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> i've spent a lot of time on my in my farewell address, talking about the state of our democracy. it goes without saying that essential to that is a free press. that is part of how this. >> place. >> this country, this grand experiment in self-government has to work. it doesn't work. >> if we don't have. >> a well informed citizenry. and you are the conduit through

which. >> they receive. >> the information about what's taking place in the halls of power. so america needs you, and our democracy needs you. >> that was president barack obama's last trip to the white house briefing room during the transition before donald trump became president the first time. marty, help us understand what's happening at the washington post. >> sure. well, i think that jeff bezos, who's one of the wealthiest people in the world, which certainly qualifies as an oligarch, is fearful of eventual behavior on the part of trump. he's fearful that the government will deny contracts to amazon, which depends on the government, a lot for cloud computing contracts. he's fearful of not getting contracts for his commercial space venture called blue origin, which is finally launched a rocket into orbit and hopes for satellite business and all of that. and he seems seeking to repair his

relationship with the with the trump. trump has always perceived him to be a political enemy for one reason and one reason only, and that is the coverage of the washington post during his first campaign, during his first administration, and ever since and even today. now, bezos is not necessarily perceived as a political enemy now because he's done a lot of work to try to repair that relationship. he made a donation to the inauguration fund. amazon prime video just paid an exorbitant sum to melania trump for her documentary. he appeared on the dais during the inauguration. he made a visit to mar a lago prior to the inauguration. i'm disturbed by all of that. and most recently, he's decided that the op ed page, the where they have a variety of opinions that essentially there will be only one sort of opinion, the opinions that the kinds of opinions that he himself holds about, about free markets and about what he calls personal liberties. that said, the news

coverage of the washington post has been incredibly solid, incredibly aggressive, highly revelatory, and i applaud them for that. i think that's what we did during the first the first term as well. most of what people knew about what was happening in the trump administration during his first term came from the traditional press, and particularly from the new york times and the washington post. and i think that's true today. of course, there are other media outlets that are exposing what's happening, and we know a lot about what's happening in this administration and what people are critiquing are sharply critical of in this administration is because they learned about it from traditional media. so i don't think we ever peddled any, any false information or anything like that. and i can tell you that when i was there, bezos never interfered in our news coverage. not once did he interfere in our news coverage. and i can assure you, if he had interfered, you would have known about it. because newsrooms are the leakiest places on earth and people would have come out, and he did not interfere at all. and i am not aware of him

interfering in the news coverage today, notwithstanding what's happening on the editorial page, what's happening on the opinion pages and all of that which i am deeply disturbed about and i condemn. but i have not gotten even a hint that he has interfered in the in the news coverage. and the news coverage has been quite aggressive, quite revelatory. and i, i celebrate that. >> what explains the exodus of some of the most familiar faces to our viewers? of some of the most accomplished journalists, people like ashley parker and phil rucker and josh dawsey. >> i think. >> there's a deep concern about some of the things that i just laid out for you. there's a lack of confidence in in the highest levels of leadership, particularly in the owner and in the publisher. they're concerned about what direction the paper. the paper is going in. and they're not certain what it is. they don't know that the company has a strategy, and they don't feel adequately supported by the

people at the very top, particularly the owner and the publisher. and so that's i think what explains their departure is that they see better opportunities elsewhere, greater security elsewhere, and they have greater confidence in in the leadership of the organizations that they've joined. >> marty, you're iconic. i mean, the reporting at the boston globe is a subject of a oscar winning film. you're played by liev schreiber. people are are hungry for reassurances that there's still a market for the truth. what what is your thought on how to make the truth again? the thing that's more sticky and more attractive than disinformation and misinformation. >> well, that's really hard question. and a lot of people are studying exactly that, that issue. i think it's really important that we be super transparent in how we go about our work, show everybody how we went about our work, the

documents that we use, the data sets that we use, give them the entire audio that we're referring to or the entire video that we're doing that we're relying upon. show it to them all and say, look, we did a lot of work here. just sit and make this stuff up the way that you might imagine. and here you have the opportunity and the right, by the way, to check our work. and we're giving you that, that chance to do it because we're giving you all of the material as much as we possibly can to show you how we went about this reporting. and also, look, i mean, we're going to have to change the way we communicate. sadly, in the current era, we're not communicating all that well. all of us, you and i did. i've worked for communications companies, and we're discovering that we're failing as communicators. we're not reaching people the way that we would hope to reach people. influencers and podcasters are doing that, and they communicate with people with a sense of authenticity. and by having that sense of authenticity, they're communicating authority as well, whether they deserve it or not.

now, there are people who do deserve it, and a lot who don't deserve it. but we need to learn how to communicate in an effective way, the way that they do. >> marty baron, it's a pleasure to get to talk to you today. thank you for your time. >> thanks for having me. >> i mean, mark elias, you do this effortlessly on top of the legal work is communicate about it and communicate about the threat and put all the cases in the context. and you've been, i mean, for as long as you've been coming on this show, you've been making sense of what the other side is doing. and you now have, i feel like your foot in both worlds. legal and communications. what what is your what is your lesson? just to build on marty's advice. >> yeah, i think it's two things. i think the first is that people want to hear what they believe the person saying thinks is true. i mean, if there's one thing that, you know, i've been successful at, it is that whether it is when i am arguing in court or whether it is when i am speaking on tv or at democracy docket on our

podcast, i, i am saying essentially the same thing. i'm saying the things that i believe to be true. the mark elias you see on tv and the mark elias you meet on the street is basically saying the same thing. and there is a sense that, you know, if you work at a large media organization, that isn't always true. now it is true of some. i mean, you are a great example. like you, your audience knows that what you are saying on tv is the same thing you believe. but and this is where i have enormous respect for marty. and like i said, i want to praise him. but i just have to add this like it is all well and good that marty baron can say, in his view, he doesn't believe it's bled over to the news section. how do i know that as a reader, why am i to believe that that's true? i mean, it's a little bit like, you know, the if that oligarch i mentioned in russia who owned pravda, you know, said, don't worry. yes. i'm interviewing with the opinion section, but not the news section. well, like, why am i to

believe that if you're willing to sacrifice one section, you're not to the other. especially since, as marty said, it's being motivated out of a desire to curry favor with the president. well, if currying favor with the president requires an opinion section, that's one thing. maybe it will require putting the thumb on the scale in news. i'm not saying that jeff bezos has done that. i'm just saying that you ask the question like, why are some media outlets thriving? why are some media personalities thriving? because we don't have trump fatigue right now. i will tell you, democracy docket subscribers are going through the roof. there is not trump fatigue. what there is there is a there is a fatigue of people of news outlets that people don't believe are actually living the values you cannot put on the masthead of your newspaper. democracy dies in darkness. and then pull this nonsense and then try to explain to people, well, it's just this part of the newspaper, not that part. >> it's a it's an important conversation. it's one i've waited to have. and i'm really,

really lucky to get to have it with you, too. ruth and mark, thank you so much for joining us for this. when we come back, growing signs of strain in america's economy, tariff threats, the freezing of federal funds, the firing of government workers, and rising costs are beginning to erode consumer confidence. we'll share that confidence. we'll share that story next. the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. when the time comes to act. are you all in for the things that really matter? i am all in for racial justice. i'm all in for voting rights.

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have never reached levels like we are right now. okay. >> what could generously be described as wishful thinking by donald trump at yesterday's cabinet meeting? as consumer confidence reaches the lowest monthly decline in more than four years, it's not the only sign that americans don't have the same confidence in trump's economy that he has. the new york times is reporting this, quote, funding freezes and firings of federal workers, combined with the prospect of costly trade wars, are souring consumer sentiment, raising inflation expectations and stalling business investment plans. according to recent economic surveys. local economies are also bracing for a sudden withdrawal of fiscal support, forcing officials to contemplate tax increases or municipal bond offerings to stabilize their budgets. the early warning signs suggest that trump's blunt approach could come with more ominous risks to the economy. a historically strong labor market with a national unemployment rate of 4%

is also in jeopardy. trump's economic policies, along with elon musk's cuts to government spending, have sparked outrage all across the country, with voters showing up in deep red districts to express their anger. that anger is about to get even louder, after all. but one house republican voted to pass a budget that cuts $880 billion from medicaid, imperiling the health care of 1 in 5 americans to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. joining our conversation, new york times economic policy reporter alan rapoport, alan, the lag time between an economic trend or event and public reaction has all but evaporated. we're in the fifth week of the trump presidency, and voters are showing up at overflow capacity at town halls to yell at republican members of congress. what what does the next phase look like?

>> they are. >> things are moving really quickly. i think. people didn't necessarily understand how quickly the trump administration would be moving with a lot of these actions in terms of the tariffs, which were, you know, signaled before he took office, but he's been implementing them at sort of a breakneck speed. and then there's all the activity with doge, the department of government efficiency. i think people didn't realize the effects or the aggressiveness that this group would be taking in terms of federal funding freezes and federal layoffs. so, you know, i think. >> we're closely watching. >> what's happening with inflation expectations. and, you know, how far these layoffs are going to spread, how deep these funding freezes are going to go. the courts are reviewing a lot of them, but i think there's definitely a lot of unrest happening at the state and local level at this point. >> what is the disconnect between trump's association with a strong economy, strong stock market, good ally of businesses and the lived reality of just five weeks of his actual policies?

>> i think the disconnect a lot of it has. >> to do with sort of. >> his passion for tariffs. i think some people, you know, he says it's the most beautiful word in the dictionary, or at least one of them. and he doesn't seem to really care at this point what the market reaction to those is. i think, you know, there's some expectation that he may sort of tailor or temper some of those policies going forward, but at this point, he doesn't seem to be too worried. the tariffs are going to lead to more inflation. so you know i think there's kind of a disconnect there between the business community and what they're expecting in terms of his tax cuts and deregulation, which there's a lot of enthusiasm for. but that's kind of a little bit further down the road. and sort of the initial price increases that we could start to be seeing pretty soon as these tariffs start to take effect. >> somebody's clearly got to him and told him that the price of eggs was a big factor in the election because it was in the transition that he said, i think to my colleague kristen welker, actually, it's going to be really hard to make things go down. a associated press is reporting that egg prices could

go up 40%. where will people see the this dynamic that trump describes as things going up most quickly and most obviously. and will it be groceries? will it be food again? >> i think groceries are definitely. >> going to. >> be. >> something that, you know, he's going to be watching for. and i think, you know, initially just a few weeks into the administration, he can still blame the biden administration for some of these inflationary, you know, situations that people are facing, particularly with food and other items. but i think, you know, i think he's also realizes that before too long, this is all going to be his responsibility. he has requested a review from cabinet officials on ways to lower prices. kind of interestingly, there's been some talk about importing eggs, you know, which we're supposed to be doing by america here. so it'll be interesting to see what kinds of strategies he takes to try to get prices down. but i think it's something that, you know, is definitely going to cause a lot of unrest at the local level. and i think democrats are

not going to let him off the hook for it, considering he promised to lower prices for all these kinds of things on day one. >> ellen, thank you for your reporting and for taking some time to talk to us about it. to be continued, for sure. we're going to shift. we're going to shift gears around here to how hollywood is responding to such extraordinary political times. we'll be joined by the director of political thrillers, including homeland and zero day, about the unique challenge of creating something compelling in the world of fiction, when the real world is one that one could hardly imagine. lesli linka glatter will be our guest after a quick break. stay with us. >> president trump's first 100 days watch. >> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half the night reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> donald trump is. >> defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government now.

>> can discriminate. >> against the citizens. >> of. the country. >> we are all watching. >> and. waiting to. >> see who. >> is going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends. >> saturday and sunday mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> i think i changed my. >> mind about these glasses. >> yeah. >> it happens. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. >> it's simple. oh. >> anything else i can help you >> anything else i can help you with? come on. you should go to t-mobile, and they'll give you a brand new iphone 16 on them. shhh! go to t-mobile, and get iphone 16 with apple intelligence on us on our most popular plans. plus get up to $800 when you switch. ♪♪ asthma. does it have you missing out on what you love, with who you love? get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems. serious allergic reactions may occur. get help for swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens

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to become a guardian of liberty today. >> our next guest is in the league of her own and knows perhaps better than anyone, how to create art that mirrors life. from the espionage thriller homeland she directed that stars claire danes as a captivating cia operations officer, carrie mathison, who i invoke all the time to her most recent work on the new netflix political thriller zero day, starring robert de niro as a former president pulled out of retirement. producer and director lesli linka glatter is at the forefront of fictional storytelling that feels more real than even the world we inhabit. joining us is lesli linka glatter, award winning director of zero day, which, in the interest of disclosure, i'm going to say was co-created and executive produced by my husband, mike schmidt, which is how i got to i got to meet you.

>> i'm so glad to. >> be sitting here with you and just to watch you work. i mean, these guys have this job with a far less accomplished anchor in the chair. but to watch you work with robert de niro and then just to get to see you with with claire danes, how do you how do you do that? how do you pull performances out of iconic? >> i love being. >> a storyteller, and to me, that's joyful. >> to. >> work with an extraordinary >> group of actors. and. >> you know, here are. >> these people. who are showing. >> us something about. >> the human condition. >> by how they. >> portray a character. >> and they have to. >> dig deep to do that. >> you know. >> because they're. >> not. >> playing themselves. >> they're playing. >> someone else. >> and that. >> to me is very exciting. and dangerous. it's a dangerous place to be. so as a director, you have to be there to support that. and help that as much as you can. >> and you know, i. >> came from another field. >> i came from. >> modern dance and choreography. so as. >> soon as i started. >> directing. >> i went right into. acting class. >> it's like. >> i have to. be able to talk.

>> to these. actors in a. >> language that. >> they relate to. >> and. >> you know, every day is a learning. >> experience. >> working with. >> robert de niro. >> are you kidding? >> it's extraordinary. >> what was that like? >> you know, i. >> have to admit, i was nervous. i was. >> nervous in the beginning. you're meeting an icon and a legend, but what you. >> find. >> with bob is he is so approachable. he is such. >> a. >> grounded human being. >> and he's so. committed to the parts he. >> plays and. >> the research. >> to understand. >> those roles. so it was a joy. >> working with him. >> and i have to say. >> actors want. >> to know that you're watching. >> and you. >> see what. >> they're doing. >> and when you. >> both know it's. >> working. >> you've got this, like, powerful connection. so it's joyful for me. >> i mean, not every day. >> is joyful, right? >> you're we're. >> working crazy hours. and with. >> zero day, we shot. 103 days. >> which mike can attest to. >> i mean, but, i mean, what's so amazing is, is what you've created is a parallel reality

that mirrors actual reality. and in in robert de niro's character. i mean, having worked in politics and now covered politics, politicians are human beings and they're deeply flawed. and robert de niro plays a deeply flawed former president. >> yes. and that's what's interesting. >> like, i. >> think showing characters in a white hat or. >> a black. >> hat. >> it's too obvious. we are. no one. >> is like that. >> we are. >> all much more. >> complicated beings. >> so for me, you. >> have a powerful. story and. >> complicated. >> layered. >> complex characters. >> oh yeah. and flawed. >> that makes it even. >> more interesting because we all. >> are. >> and the struggle seems to be within himself and then within his own family and then within our politics. are all these really, really violent poles. yes. explain that as almost like a another character. >> oh, that is totally. >> another character. i mean, you nailed it, nicole. i mean, for me. >> this story is about truth.

what is. >> truth in a. >> post-truth world? >> and how can we really. communicate if we can't decide what is fact and what. is opinion? >> and they're very different. >> and, you know. >> that seems to me the. >> world we're in right now that we really need. and every. individual character's. >> relationship to the truth. >> what is. >> that moral compass individually as. >> well as in the. >> the. >> bigger picture? >> and i think that's. >> what we. >> try to. >> look at. >> and there's. >> not a right and wrong. >> but if we could just. >> stop and listen to each other and actually hear what the other person is saying, we might actually be able to move forward. and that's exciting to me to. deal with a. >> realistically real world, but it's filled. >> with a certain level of anxiety. >> well, i'm going to ask you to stick around. i mean, that's the conversation we started the hour with, with the former editor of the washington post, marty baron. how do you make the truth, this thing that is more appealing and addictive. and i want to ask your advice and your answer to that question on the other side of a break. is that okay?

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♪♪ insurance policies. >> from seniors. >> and in just. >> seconds, you can. >> use the free calculator@abacus.com to learn what your policy might be worth. >> for many of my clients, selling their life insurance to abacus was right for them and their estate planning. >> don't sell or lash your policy without going to abacus.com first. there are no fees and no obligations. get the real value. >> from your life. insurance when you need. >> it with abacus. >> leslie, i want to ask your advice for how people in politics can tell more compelling stories to voters. >> oh. >> that's that's a. >> crazy interesting question. i would never. profess to know anything about how to communicate, as. >> far as, you know, how to speak to people's gut. >> i think you have to. >> speak from. >> an honest. >> true place. >> and tell. >> a compelling. story and.

never looked down at anyone. and i think that's. >> what we try. >> to. >> do in our. >> storytelling is, is be sure. >> that or. try to connect. >> in some way. and i think. that that has to be a very important thing. it's not so much about me. it's about how it connects to you. >> and your heroes are all i mean, it's so it's so interesting. carrie mathison is this, like, deeply flawed character, but she she she's always trying to do the right thing. and that's why she became this iconic character. >> to me. >> working in government. yeah, it seems like that's always a kernel that you bring out people trying to do the right thing. >> and i think that's. >> really important. but you know. >> with shows. >> like homeland or. >> zero day. >> they're highly researched. i mean, yes, it is a story. it's an entertainment. and they're both thrillers, which. are great engines to tell. >> stories. >> because then you can hang all. >> this juicy. >> character debate onto those kind of engines that move. i

think. >> with zero day. >> it's very much in the line of paranoid conspiracy thrillers that date back to the. >> 70s. >> whether it's like seven days in may. or the manchurian. >> candidate. >> and there are some sort of observational point. >> of view, what. >> is that? and that's really intriguing to me. whereas homeland was really looking at the intelligence community and a lot, we spent a lot of time in d.c. meeting with, you know, heads of the cia, nsa, dni, and asking the question, what keeps you up at night? what are your deepest fears for america and the world? and that's where the season would come from. so different. >> shows, but. >> very reality. >> based and very much with zero day. you know, i think what keeps most people in politics and on this side of it up at night is, is trying to make sure the truth is what is most desirable by voters and constituents. >> absolutely. and that at the end of the day, you know, this individual relationship to the truth is a really important one.

and i think that's where deep character comes from. >> i love it, obviously not just because my husband was involved. he's amazing. >> i have. >> to. >> say, i love the fact that. >> we have journalists involved who really know the world and material, and i think it's about the bigger picture. and then the interpersonal, you go from like wide kind of macro issues, but it always has to go through the, the sphere of the individual. >> it's amazing. and i'm so glad that that you're here to talk about it. >> me too. >> thank you for being here. you can watch zero day right now. it's on netflix. another break for us. we'll be right back. >> seems like we care. >> seems like we play. >> sadly. windshield chips. >> can turn into. >> windshield cracks. but at least you can. >> go to safe. >> flight.com and schedule a fix in minutes. >> sweet. >> safe flight can come to you for free, and our highly trained techs can replace your windshield right at your home. >> they flight safe. flight.

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