our xfinity network is built for streaming all the stuff people love. how can it get any better? -i'm just spitballin' here, but, what if we offer people apple tv+, netflix and peacock? for one low monthly price. -yes. so, people could stream the shows they love. and we could call it... xfinity streamsaver! mmmmm. what about something like: streamsaver? ooooooo. -i love that. add streamsaver with apple tv+, netflix and peacock included for only $15 a month... and stream all your favorite entertainment, all in one place. reinventing your business at. >> that's our time. we hand it off to michael steele. good evening michael. >> hey good evening ari. >> thank you so. >> much, buddy. we begin. >> this hour with. >> the demolition of the federal

infrastructure. >> while republican. >> leaders kind. of look the other way. >> nbc news reports. >> that the. trump administration has. >> directed federal. >> agencies to. >> prepare for. >> mass layoffs. >> according to. >> heads of the white house. budget and personnel. management offices. meanwhile, some. >> house republicans. >> who held town hall events were confronted by constituents. >> outraged over the cuts to. >> federal funding. >> that the. >> department of government. >> efficiency has instituted across agencies. here's speaker. >> mike johnson on. >> what he thinks the town. hall anger is. >> really all about. >> no, because the no, i don't because the videos you saw of the town halls were for paid protesters in many of those places. these are democrats who went to the events early and filled up the seats. if you had if the videos had panned out, they were all paid. >> protesters, though, mr. >> speaker. >> many republican. >> acknowledged they were his constituents. >> one republican acknowledged they were constituents. that's fantastic. okay. but they had

democrats come and fill the seats early. >> they the speaker added. >> that the. american people. >> are behind. >> what's happening, seemingly referring. >> to trump's. >> legislative agenda and moves to lay off government workers. really, mr. speaker, because several recent polls show more americans disapprove. >> of. trump and. >> musk's effort. >> to cut the federal workforce. >> than. >> approve, a recent washington post poll showed 54% disapprove. of trump's managing of the federal government, and. more americans disapprove of musk than. approve of him. also today, a federal judge ordered the office of personnel management to rescind its january 20th memo and february 14th internal email, where it told agencies to promptly. >> determine whether. >> these employees should be retained at the agency. the judge said it's illegal and should be stopped. joining me now is nbc news white house correspondent yamiche alcindor and msnbc political. >> analyst charles.

>> blow and former congressman david jolly. yamiche, this this. >> ongoing onslaught. >> if. >> you will, against. >> the federal government, seems. >> to go about unabated. >> what's what's the latest. >> you're hearing with. >> respect to plans. >> for. >> other agencies, particularly given of the report, just out. >> a little. >> while ago that the federal judge, william. >> alsup. >> has ordered opm to rescind the. >> memo calling. >> on agencies to fire. probationary employees. >> well, i think it's still really too early to understand what the exact implications and consequences of this judge's decision is going to be, because the judge is saying that people who have already lost their jobs, they're not getting rescinded, they're not getting those those jobs back. and i think that that's something that a lot of people are watching. if it was illegal to fire those probationary employees and a number of other employees. it's a question of whether or not any of those people will be able to sue and get them back. the other big question here is whether or not this will end up in the

supreme court, because we've seen the case of usaid, where we had a federal judge say, in fact, no, you should not be allowed to fire these people. and then the supreme court weighed in and said, actually, you can go forward. so i think that you really, in some ways have to have to see how this plays out. i'm very interested to see whether or not this ends up in the supreme court. that being said, the trump administration has been very clear that they're going to continue full speed ahead with cuts and trims. we just saw tonight 5% of noah, which of course deals with weather and all sorts of sort of scientific situations and issues in our country. they're having a reduction in force. the white house is saying that they're still going to be not letting go of people like meteorologists and other essential workers. but i think it's very interesting to see the white house even tonight announcing and making clear that they are making more cuts. so i think what we have here is a trump administration that feels like they are able, through the executive branch, to continue to make these cuts. and let's remember, their goal is $2

trillion from the federal budget. so cutting people agencies here and there is not going to get you there. so this is going to be a lot bigger and a lot more widespread. we're only a month and a half into this. >> you know, david. the this. >> this this. >> sweeping hack saw to. >> the federal. >> government without rhyme or reason. nor any regard for the people impacted. they talk about, you know, wanting to keep essential personnel, but who supporting the essential personnel that are keeping. >> they're the ones. >> also being fired. you have tammy duckworth particularly looking at the impact on our veterans. and she had this to say at a virtual event on on the impact that doge is having, noting that she had invited elon musk to join her. >> it's a middle finger to our heroes. it's a slap in the face to. >> the. >> sacrifices our veterans have made. >> it's bs, frankly. >> and every one of us who has served should feel insulted.

donald trump now has fired more veterans than any other president in recent history. how dare a. five time draft dodging coward. turn his back on the men and women who, unlike him, actually. were brave enough to serve our nation in uniform? >> that that. >> impact on veterans. >> seems to really be resonating across the country as more and. more veterans are losing their jobs. how do you assess that as a piece of this. >> overall effort? oh, a significant. >> part, michael. >> listen, i think the. >> first month of. >> the trump. >> administration has. >> been a colossal failure. >> this will be. >> remembered for the war on the federal bureaucracy and the war on federal employees. >> and here's where it's. >> kind of fascinating. as a top line. >> issue. >> most people. >> would say, yes, we need. >> fewer federal. >> employees because. perhaps there's a real disconnect. >> between the. >> services they. >> actually receive and the federal employees are talking about, or the ability. >> of the va to.

>> administer benefits, or the national park service to keep a park open, unless. >> you really can draw a line. >> personally in your own home. >> to the. direct benefit, perhaps. >> you say, well, sure, let's cut federal employees, but here's where they're way off. if you ask people what they. >> actually care. >> about tonight. >> the federal workforce is probably number. >> 30 on their list. number one is. >> the price of eggs. >> number two. >> is inflation. >> number three is the job market. number four is the affordability. >> of healthcare. >> the afford. access to higher education. and so this is one of those things where it. >> might feel good. >> for some a very small part of the american voter. >> but it is way. >> way off message. >> and then you. >> get to the real people who are impacted. >> i mean, the case tonight where. >> the district judge in california issued. >> the temporary. >> restraining order on probationary employees to a group of 200,000 federal employees. >> consider what. >> that does. >> to their livelihoods. >> to their communities. consider that what that does to the national unemployment rolls and. >> to amita's. >> point. >> with very little federal

savings. >> involved. >> they are way off. >> message on this. >> and the. >> last thing. >> i would say, michael. >> that. >> sound you. played for mike johnson, how. demeaning for the speaker to say, oh, but. >> these were just democrats. as though democrats. >> are less. >> worthy constituents. >> to members of congress than actual republican constituents. somehow. >> if you're. >> a democratic constituent. >> you don't have. >> a. >> right to voice your opinion to. >> a member of congress. that was. >> a hot garbage moment from. >> the. >> speaker, but. >> very revealing. >> about how this. >> first month is going. >> well. >> i. >> just like the speaker to put up the receipts that somebody got paid to sit in those chairs. >> but, you. >> know. >> you know, we'll wait. charles david. >> rightly notes about the. >> opening of this administration as a war on the federal government. >> a. >> war on civil servants. you have from nbc news, top doj official resigning yet again, one of the justice department's highest ranking spokespeople, joshua stueve, submitted a resignation letter today citing

a hostile and. >> toxic work environment. >> he added simply put, i cannot continue to serve in such. >> a. >> hostile and toxic work environment, one where leadership at the highest levels makes clear we are not welcome or valued, much less trusted, to do our jobs. that really sums up what david was referring to. here's my question if you've got this, this sort of cauldron of vitriol against. federal workers, at. >> what point. >> does this administration pay the price for it? because it doesn't seem like the american people are ready to make them pay a price for it? >> well, we're also. >> caught in a war of stagecraft. the administration has been very clever at this, which is to overwhelm and to stun the american people and to keep them off balance on every turn. i was looking over on the white house website, all of the

executive orders, and, you know, the pace of them is almost every day, every other day. and that is on purpose. it is to make sure that you throw enough things up into the air, that people are always discombobulated and they can't focus on what is the meat and potatoes of what's happening here, which is the massive grift, the massive stealing, i call it stealing of public information. and the dis assembling of the federal government. and that is the crux of it. and what the reason i believe, that people are not already in the streets is that, number one, they're stunned. but number two, they have not yet started to feel the downstream effects of all of this. here is the problem that the republicans are going to have. the planes still have to stay in the air. they can't keep falling out the air, doing somersaults on the tarmac. terrorism is always a threat to us and will continue to be a threat to us. the next plague is not going to wait and worry about how many people we

kept involved in fighting that plague. things are going to happen. they just haven't happened in a way yet that most people can feel them up close. the thing that people feel up close to most right now fear of flying. also the price of these eggs. but there will be more of these situations and there will be more natural disasters and we will start to see. or the number of, you know, the amount of trash in a national park. you'll start to see the effects of this. and i think that americans will not like what they see. >> yamiche, you know, charles talks about the downstream effects. of the grifting and the destruction of the infrastructure of the federal government. you have several congress members of republican members. and david and i were just talking about. this a little bit, you know, facing pushback from their constituencies. the speakers are saying, oh, they're just democrats hired and paid to put in the seat just for the those are largely in very red districts, by the way, where these town hall meetings are happening. to charles's point

about the downstream effect. how long do we catch up on that? right, with the public. and who's winning this debate right now? because you do at the same time that there's this pressure. you've got voters out there, republican voters going, wait a minute, i'm just not feeling everything that i'm hearing and seeing. >> well, it's a key question who's winning the debate right now because you have some varying polls that are showing, like the washington post showing that only 43% of americans are are liking what they're seeing in this first few weeks of the trump presidency. but then you also have a recent harvard poll saying that a number of people, the majority of americans, do actually like the idea of doge and what they're seeing in terms of these cuts. and the president has sort of grabbed on to the polls that show that they people like what they're seeing. there's also this issue of sort of consequences. and i think that's going to be something that could take time. when you think about air traffic control or you think about a place like

noaa, or you think about a place like the security of social security administration building. i was just talking to someone on the phone who was telling me that they're worried about offices closing and whether or not someone who's applying for disability, whether that means that instead of going down the street to your local social security office, you might now have to drive two hours. if you're in a rural district to go try to file those claims, especially if you're trying to file a claim as a disabled person. that's going to be something that's being felt. and a lot of these rural areas are deeply red, so it might take some time for people to really feel this. but i think it is also telling that you're seeing these town halls and you're seeing people say, look, i didn't vote for elon musk. and some people even calling him president elon musk and said, i voted for trump. and he told me he was going to lower the cost of living. he was going to make sure that eggs were something that was more affordable. so i think there is this sense among some trump supporters that they are not feeling like they're seeing what they're getting, but the president is feeling like he's doing what his mandate told him to do, which is which is have all of these cuts and, and do all of these actions here.

>> charles, we've. >> got about 30s left. >> so to your. >> point, particularly. >> about those rural voters. >> out. there feeling the impact you got, the white house chief of staff, siouxsie wiles, working to alleviate a lot of the consternation among some of those republican members. what happens in in in that conversation regarding doge and government efficiency and the impact that it's having? and will she be able to help these republicans. get a little. bit more. comfortable with the deconstruction of the administrative state? >> yeah, absolutely. >> will not. you can't go through and slash the federal government with a chainsaw and then go back through line by line and try to restore things that that particular republicans in particular districts want to have restored, and think that that is going to be an efficient way of dealing with the federal government, which is a humongous, humongous instrument. so that won't work, and they'll be doing that forever, trying to do that, trying to put the patches back in the boat. that

doesn't work that way. >> all right. yamiche alcindor and charles blow, thank you guys very much. david jolly i got a little bit more for you, buddy. so stick around. coming up, the grift continues with. >> new. >> reporting that the faa is close to canceling a $2.4 billion contract with verizon and awarding it to wait for it. elon musk's starlink instead. stay with us. >> you'll be back. >> emus can help people customize and save with. liberty mutual. >> and doug. >> well, i'll be. >> only pay for what you need. >> liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. >> when my. >> hair started thinning, i didn't. >> want. >> to hear the wisecracks. >> i was ignoring my hair because i was a full time working mother. but luckily, i found nutrafol. >> my hair was. >> getting stronger. >> and thicker. >> and i finally feel like myself again. my eyes, they're.

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>> so i'm going to ask if it's possible to have elon get up first. he's really working so hard and he's got businesses to run. and in many ways they say, how do you do this? and you know, it's he's sacrificing a lot. >> yes. >> donald trump. >> wants you to feel sympathy for his co-president elon musk, who, like trump is in this for the grift because. >> it's all. >> about helping the richest person in the world get even richer and defeat his competitors, his competitors. the latest example comes from the. washington post, which is reporting that the faa is close to canceling a major contract with verizon to upgrade the agency's air traffic control system and award the work to musk's company, starlink. now, the value of that contract $2.4 billion. that's it. back with me is david jolly. and joining us

is jeff guzzetti, former faa and ntsb investigator and msnbc aviation analyst. jeff, i just need to understand, do you have any idea what sacrifices are involved at this point? that would. require musk to get a $2.4 billion aviation contract that is. >> right. >> now slated for verizon. >> hi, michael. >> well. >> i don't know if that's a sacrifice. and he doesn't have the contract. >> yet. >> but just the just the fact that the faa is considering. >> canceling a. >> contract after they. >> went through. >> all of the research and time. >> it takes. >> to acquire. a service like this, it amazes me that they're thinking about canceling that and starting from scratch. and going with starlink. i don't i'm not a lawyer. i don't know anything about conflict of interest or ethics to that degree. i just know as a former

federal employee, i wasn't even allowed to have stock in boeing or aluminum or or things that are. even closely related to aviation. and now. >> you here. now you. >> have. >> someone that could. >> reap the benefits of a of a. 2 billion. >> plus contract. >> so it just the mere perception of a conflict of interest should give everyone pause here. >> could you, could you real quick for us, jeff, sort of spotlight. what what what's involved here and how you know this a contract like this plays out. for our air traffic control system verizon obviously is better probably better suited for it because they're the ones who were awarded the contract, presumably. but what's the difference between a starlink and a verizon handling this type of a contract? >> well, there's. probably a lot of differences. >> i mean, starlink. >> of course, has a constellation of satellites that are that are. very useful in a

lot of different applications. but verizon is also a competitor, and they have a stake with ground based and satellite based communications. you know, my former life before i became an faa investigator was as the assistant inspector general for the department of transportation, and we would do audits of faa air. >> traffic modernization program. >> and we found problems with a lack of stable funding that was provided by congress. we found problems that elon musk is not going to be able to handle, certainly not within a year or two. these are very sophisticated systems. you're talking about tying together 3 or 4000 air traffic control facilities. you're talking about training controllers. you're talking about trying to find a contractor and vetting that contractor to make sure they can. >> maintain the. >> system. >> have. >> expertise in the system, can train the controllers. and it just surprises me that a quick

decision like this. >> could be. >> made right after they did all that work to select verizon. all the integration involved, and now suddenly. >> they may. >> drop verizon. >> and all the instances of, you know, air air issues, if you will, over the last month or so. david, the grift is still real, baby. it's still real. and let's take a look at how real it is for elon musk. we've got this bar graph i want to show you. of the $38 billion in government funding over the past 20 years that he's received. nearly two thirds of that $38 billion in funds have been promised to his businesses in the past five years. in 2024 alone, federal and local governments committed at least 6.3 billion to musk's companies, the highest total to date. and the total amount is probably larger than a lot of folks may realize, because there are a lot of contracts that aren't in the public space, david, because they are

sensitive, they are related to secrets that the country has. so the grift is real. and now here we are, this administration wanting to give another, you know, extensive $2.4 billion contract to the guy who's overseeing the contracts. >> i don't know. >> i would. >> add that. >> elon musk net worth reportedly has grown by a number greater than the entire usaid budget just since november, since donald trump's election, elon musk's net worth has grown more than the entire usaid budget that now is a target of elon musk. >> and i think we have to be. >> clear what's going on. >> the nation. >> is less safe, less prepared and more vulnerable under elon musk than it's probably. ever been before. >> and i put. >> that on elon musk's lap as donald trump's decision. but elon. >> musk. >> is essentially now the. ceo of the country. donald trump has delegated to him. immense power. that raises a ton of

constitutional questions, but also questions of ethics and recall. one of the first things that trump and musk did was they eliminated. >> many of the igs. >> they eliminated many of the ethics officers. >> and it's apparently self-reporting. >> if you listen to donald trump, that if there's a conflict, elon will tell trump, well, come on, if you have two liars in a room lying to the american people, are we really going to see this much avoided? i just think we. >> are in. >> a real crisis now. >> and not only is. >> it largely illegal and unconstitutional what we're seeing, but we are more vulnerable as a country, from the. faa to the department of defense, where senior leadership has been removed to a measles outbreak in our own public health, you name it, from a national security, domestic security perspective, the united. states is in a more precarious and dangerous situation tonight under elon musk than it was ever before. >> and the truth of the matter, jeff, is that that individual musk, who is controlling the contracts, the firing individuals across the country

and from the federal government, has himself faced pressures and battles with federal investigations heading into this administration here. look at this. this is the craziest road map you ever want to see, but it's a real road map of the elon musk and federal investigations into his businesses. everything from the department of agriculture, which probed alleged animal abuse to department of transportation, ntsb, which had several probes into tesla over remote and self-driving vehicles, to the department of labor and nlrb, which had 17 open investigations against tesla and spacex for a multitude of violations. presumably at this point, because he's fired all the igs. and, you know, the importance of those individuals from your experience inside, you know, the faa. no accountability here. so the guy yet again, controlling all the all the contracts and making all the pay for play for

himself is going without these investigations going forward. these investigations happen for a reason. what impact does this have on the morale and the ability? going back to david's point of, you know, keeping in line the controls over this government to make sure there's accountability and responsibility for the actions the government takes. >> well, i can speak for two of the agencies that i used to work for, the ntsb, which. >> you mentioned. >> had a lot of issues with tesla. autopilots on their cars and the faa, which had continue to have issues with. potential safety violations with spacex in terms of issuing permits. and those two agencies are there to ensure safety and to make sure that there's adequate regulation and oversight. and, you know, it doesn't bode well to increase safety if some of these controls

aren't in place. and then the third agency i work for, as you indicated, i worked for the inspector general of the department of transportation. well, that position is now vacant because elon musk got rid of that, or excuse me, the president got rid of those positions. but you're still right. >> either way. >> it doesn't bode well for safety. >> it doesn't bode well for safety. david. and that that is the crux of it. you've got, you know, this whole thing around financial conflicts of interest. you know, as a member of congress, former member of congress, federal code 18 usc 208 on financial conflicts makes it very clear that that that's not to be accepted or or, you know, allowed. and yet, here we find ourselves in a situation in which the grift continues. david jolly, jeff guzzetti, thank you guys so much for being a part of

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1-800-403-7539. that's 1-800-403-7539. >> well, elon musk is forcing

people into unemployment and slashing $1 trillion in spending. republicans are moving full steam ahead with gutting medicaid and the supplemental nutrition assistance program, or snap to pay for trump's tax, border and energy agenda. in support of that budget, republicans have introduced a bill that would toughen work requirements for people who use snap by stripping exemptions for veterans and young adults who recently aged out of foster care. republican congressman pat fallon of texas had this warning for americans who might need those food stamps. >> we have a message. >> for those kind of folks. >> if you're able bodied and you want to. >> you know. >> milk the taxpayer. those days are over. >> get off couch. >> stop eating the cheetos. stop buying the medical marijuana. >> and watching television. you're going to actually contribute now. >> joining me. >> now is former. >> republican congressman from pennsylvania, charlie dent. charlie, i don't know who he's

talking about. the sort of blanket, sort of sweeping condemnation of individuals. what's striking to me is and stunning a to hear member of congress say something like that. but then b, knowing that many of the maga supporters in texas and alabama and elsewhere around the country also utilize that kind of assistance. so i don't i don't understand what he's saying is that's what he's saying about his constituents. how do you how do you, as a member, when you hear another member say something like that, respond or react? >> well. >> michael. >> great to be. >> with you. let me just say. >> let's start with a. spoiler alert. you know, for in order to. receive snap benefits. >> or food stamps. >> as it's. >> commonly referred to, for those. >> who are able bodied. without dependent. >> children. >> there are. >> already work requirements for them. i think. >> between the ages of about 18. >> to 54. >> that's the law. >> when you voted, i voted for the farm bill. we included that.

>> in the. >> farm bill. now, it is true there have been some exemptions. >> for veterans and i believe for some people. >> coming out of. foster care. >> so i. >> i'm. >> i'm a little. >> bit mystified. >> that. >> the congressman. doesn't seem to realize that. >> there already. >> is a. >> work requirement. >> or maybe it's. not extended as deeply as he would like. >> but they are there, and. >> it sounds a. >> bit harsh, particularly as. >> you know, we're we're actually laying. >> people off in this country right now, at least. >> on the federal workforce. it just seems pretty harsh. >> and, you know, the work requirement was. >> put in. >> for good reason. it's there, i think. i don't think they really have to mess with it. so i'm not sure where he's going with this. >> yeah. and you know, just the idea that, you know, people just want to sit around and get a government check. like that's that that's covers their cheetos. you know, it's just insulting in that regard, particularly when you consider what the gop just voted on to cut. you're looking at $880 billion in funding cuts for medicaid and medicare, $330

billion funding cuts to education paid for by taxes on student loans, cutting student loan repayments and cutting school lunches. $230 billion funding cuts to supplemental nutrition assistance program and $562 billion elsewhere. so these are sweeping cuts that are that are going to impact a lot of americans who need these resources and support for these programs in the efforts to balance the budget. and the efforts to sort of create and streamline government services to make them more efficient. how how had you, as a member of congress, walked that balancing act to try to achieve a balanced budget or to try to support, create that, keep that safety net in place while other while otherwise looking at other places to cut in the federal government? >> well, let. >> let me start something. >> to say. >> something about the budget process here. >> the budget. >> process in washington, dc.

>> is an. exercise in confederate money. >> it's not real. >> you just. >> listed off. >> a whole. >> bunch of numbers. >> like they're going to. >> cut x number of. >> dollars from snap benefits. well, there's oftentimes. >> in these. budgets there is no. >> policy to. >> back up. >> those numbers. you mentioned $880 billion. >> now they're saying they're not going to cut medicaid. but you couldn't. >> the energy and commerce couldn't find 880. $880 billion. >> without going into medicaid. >> so there's no policy. >> to back. >> this up. >> so as a member of congress, i always thought. >> our. >> job was to. >> try to get the deficits. >> you know, you'd like to keep the 2 to 3% of gdp. >> you want them to be manageable. obviously, that's not. where we are now. i think we're closer to 6. >> or. >> 7%. of gdp. >> the budget. >> and so but. right now. >> you. >> have to make hard decisions. >> and i. >> got to tell you. >> the. >> budget committee is the most useless committee in congress. because they. >> really have to. >> it is i was on the appropriations committee. >> so i'm. >> just showing. >> my stripes here. >> i mean, they really only have two jobs to do each year.

>> to set a. >> top line spending level for. >> the federal government. they haven't done that because we still haven't funded fy 25. march 14th will be on. >> us in a few days. >> and they're nowhere near that. but they don't have a. >> top. >> line spending level. and they do reconciliation instructions most years. they don't do that. that's all they're charged. with doing. >> so that's. >> why it's useless, because at the end of. >> the day, you. >> know. >> you have to fund the government. now, how. >> you balance. >> the budget, there's no easy. >> way to do this. you know, without touching. >> mandatory programs. >> and finding. >> new revenue. >> i mean. >> that's everybody. >> knows that, but nobody. >> really. >> wants to. >> admit it. >> democrats don't want to talk. >> about spending. republicans don't want to talk about taxes. >> and that's. >> why we're in this conundrum. so. >> charlie, real quick, what then what is all this? i mean, if you just laid it out and it actually what you said makes a lot of sense. what is all the drama and the noise around the numbers when, like you said, to get to that $880 billion, they're going to have to cut medicaid. i mean otherwise you can't get there. so what what are we doing here. what what is

just this the politics of the budget. >> or what? >> yeah. >> yes. this is the. >> politics of the budget. remember what happened here? >> these budget. >> votes, this this. >> just sets up the process. >> for reconciliation. >> they're just giving instructions. the real work is going. >> to have. >> to be done. >> after the. >> house and. >> senate finally agree. >> to this budget resolution. they haven't. they have to do that. that's going. >> to take a little time. they haven't done that. but once they. >> come to that. >> agreement, then. >> they have to. >> then the. >> committees, the. >> energy and commerce committee. >> and the ways and. >> means committee. >> are going. >> to. have to find the savings. >> and the revenue. >> that's the hard part. >> and, you know, don't put me down as skeptical that they'll. >> ever. >> get an agreement on. >> that tax. >> piece on. >> a. >> partizan basis. >> because they're also. >> going to try to throw. >> the. >> debt ceiling into this. >> it's hard. >> this is really hard. >> to do. >> a. >> reconciliation package with this. >> narrow of a majority. like i said, this is the easy vote right. >> now, this budget. >> vote because it's not real. >> but the hard stuff. >> is real. >> and it's coming soon. >> and it's coming like a freight train. former congressman. >> my buddy. >> charlie dent. good to see you, man. thanks for coming on.

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starmer is the second european leader to visit the president this week, in an attempt to convince him not to abandon our allies, as trump seeks to end the war between russia and ukraine. and it comes, as you know, there's been growing concern across europe over trump's fondness for russia and its president, vladimir putin. today, when asked about the prospects of a peace deal, trump made it clear that he trusts the russian leader. >> what would you be willing to do if vladimir putin did not stick to the terms of any deal on ukraine? >> if you know. >> what. >> he did not stick to the terms of any deal on ukraine. because he has a history of not sticking to his word when it comes to international. >> agreements. >> i think i'll keep his word. i think i think he's i've spoken to him. i've known him for a long time now. you know, we had we had to go through the russian hoax together. that was not a good thing. it's not fair. that was a rigged deal and had nothing to do with russia. it was a rigged deal with inside the country. and they had to put

up with that. do they put up with a lot? >> he he. >> just can't help himself. joining me now is michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst. ambassador. he can't help himself. he just it just it's like it's on a, you know, repeat dial for him. and it really does beg the question. and it's not so much why donald trump trusts vladimir putin as much as he does. i mean, that book is kind of written itself, but why should anybody else, and especially volodymyr zelensky, who will be in washington tomorrow? >> that's exactly right. >> nobody should trust him. they don't trust him. and mr. zelensky most certainly doesn't trust him, i can tell you that. and even when we had better relations with moscow in the gorbachev reagan days, when there was a different kind of leader, not not vladimir putin,

reagan. used to always say trust, but verify. and that's exactly what the ukrainians want. they're not going to sign a peace deal that is just based on putin's word. they need much more than that. and that's why he's coming to washington next tomorrow. >> you know, you know, ambassador, it begs your point just now, begs a couple of points for me, because, you know, the peace deal is an essential part. but but the president trump has leveled up. hey, give us half of your your find diamonds and minerals and other things that may be there on the ground in ukraine. and they're seemingly moving in that direction. what do you make of that piece being put in the middle of this conversation for zelensky, who's indicated, okay, yeah, we may look at these mineral rights, given half the mineral rights to the united states, even though it will take, you know, a long time for that to really be realized.

>> well, i just as an american, i'm. embarrassed by it. i mean, we're exploiting a partner who is fighting for their lives in ukraine to fighting for their country. and in the middle of that, we're we're exploiting. >> them in this. >> kind of colonial deal. i just find it atrocious. >> and i. >> don't think it's in america's long term interest. i think if we keep doing this, eventually we're going to have no friends in the world. having said that, zelensky has no choice. he has to sign this. they've done a good deal in negotiating it. i think people will be surprised at how this is going to feel like a pretty kind of public relations document, and not very specific when we see the signing tomorrow, but they have to do it. and you know better than this, this kind of pr memorandum of understanding rather than some, you know, deep deal that will put. >> them in. >> deficit for. >> a long time. >> all right. so you've touched on the meeting for tomorrow between the president and zelensky. and i thought it was very interesting what the

president has had to say about zelensky. oh, about a week ago and what he had to say about him today being a dictator. let's take a quick listen. >> i think. >> that mr. zelensky is a dictator. >> did i say that? i can't believe i said that. next question. think of it. a modestly successful comedian, a dictator without elections. zelensky, better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. >> i'm sorry. i didn't mean to laugh, did i? did i say that? i can't believe i said that. yeah, you said it. how does that frame the conversation tomorrow? i'm sure zelensky will just kind of brush it off and not make much of it. but what does it say about the nature of this meeting, the agreements that they're looking to sign and what zelensky can expect on the other side of this because it doesn't, from my perspective, look like it's going to be a good thing

regardless of how or what they sign tomorrow. >> well, first two things. what that shows me that clip you just did that. brilliant. put them side by side. is it just it's the difference about being off on twitter, being with your buddies and saying stupid things versus sitting next to the prime minister of great britain? and the more engagement. that that leaders like that have with the president, the better, as far as i'm concerned. he just was too uncomfortable to say what he said there. that's a good sign. but secondly, i'm with you. i'm not optimistic that. >> that i'm. >> grateful that they're having the meeting. they're going to sign the deal. but everything else, you know, the president and his team are just giving away their best negotiating cards before the negotiations have begun, saying, you can't join nato. we're not going to put soldiers there. you got to give territory. >> i've negotiated. >> with these guys. these are tough negotiators, the russian team. and this is not the way

you negotiate a lasting peace deal. which begs the question, does president trump really. >> want to. >> negotiate a peace deal? i'm not so sure he cares about that. i think he cares more about putin than he does about an actual deal. >> ambassador, you just put your finger on the sweet spot because i agree 1,000% with you. the deal is just paint. this paper, which was, you know, it's like, okay, i make putin happy and move on. this is not about the long term interests of the united states. in fact, you having lived in russia and been a part of that ecosystem, the new york times is talking about trump's washington and moscow becoming very symbiotic in many respects. the united states is not russia by any means, and any comparison risks going too far. but for those of us who reported there a quarter century ago, mr. trump's washington is bringing back memories of mr. putin's moscow in the early days, from

the news media being pressured, lawmakers having been tamed, career officials deemed disloyal and being fired, and on and on and on is setting in, is setting up this parallel universe to a time long, long ago in a soviet union that certainly putin longs for? >> well, i read peter baker's piece on that, and i did live in the russia that during the same time, those early putin years. and what i'm struck by in the parallels was the business folks, the oligarchs, they all got behind putin. and you know why? because he cut their taxes. does that sound familiar? and they all said, oh, he's not going to do these autocratic things. it's not going to go that badly. and then he put one of them in jail three years later, and then he shut down his media. and i think everybody should learn that lesson. and that's where trump aspires to. but we're not there yet. and i think we should do more to stop so that we don't go the path of

putinism because we know how that ends. it ends in dictatorship and then invading countries. >> we don't want to go. >> down that. >> all right. >> well, he does have his sights on canada and greenland, so we've got to be careful. ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you so much, folks. we'll be right back right after this. >> my eyes, they're. >> dry, uncomfortable. >> looking for extra hydration. now there's blink neutral tears. >> it works. >> differently than drops. blink neutral tears is a once daily supplement clinically proven to hydrate from within, helping your eyes produce more of their own tears to promote lasting, continuous relief. you'll feel day after day. try blink neutral day after day. try blink neutral tears a different way feeling backed up and bloated? good thing metamucil fiber plus probiotics gummies work harder for your digestive system. with fiber to help promote gut health. and probiotics to help relieve occasional bloating. so you can feel your best. metamucil fiber plus probiotics gummies.

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>> an investigation is ongoing into the death of academy award winning actor gene hackman, who was found dead inside his home along with his wife. nbc's stephanie gosk remembers the life of the legendary actor. >> the two time oscar winner, always showing grit, intellect and intensity on the screen. hackman had the uncanny ability to vanish into any role. >> and the problem is. >> from tough as nails good cop popeye doyle in the french connection, which earned him his first oscar to lex luthor opposite christopher reeve in superman.

>> mind over muscle. and after that, a remarkable run of iconic roles in dozens of films, winning over audiences with movies like hoosiers and crimson tide. >> mr. hunter. >> i made a decision. i'm captain of this boat. >> you're relieved of your position. >> and critics with a second oscar win with unforgiven. >> he's got. >> one barrel left. >> he kept working even after heart surgery in 1990, turning to mostly comedic roles. >> it was against the law. >> until his retirement in the early 2000. hackman and his wife moving to santa fe. he continued to work as a novelist, publishing his fifth book in 2013, though the two were occasionally spotted together. hackman largely preferred to stay out of the public eye in recent years. while audiences remember him through a remarkable on screen career. >> that's it. >> for this hour. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on all in. >> grocery price g