we sit here and we talk, people are getting shot and dying on the battlefield. and, you know, they're not american soldiers, but they're russian soldiers and they're ukrainian soldiers. and we want to be able to stop it, and we want to be able also to spend money on other things. we don't want to. this is a tremendous amount of money. and what the biden administration did was terrible. they were giving money, but he had no security on the money. europe, as you know, gave much less money. but they had security. it was in the form of a loan. they get their money back and we didn't. and now at least we're protected because the american taxpayer has to be protected, too. but this is an incredible agreement for ukraine because we have a big investment in their country now. and what what they have very few people have. and we're able to really go forward with very, very high tech things and many other things, including

weaponry, weaponry that we're going to use in many locations, but that we need for our country. mr. president, this allows this allows us to do this. >> mr. president. >> will. >> you continue? >> sending military aid? yes. go ahead please. >> yeah. again. >> just yes. in the document there is one of the very important points. if we speak about business and investment, we never had lng terminals in ukraine. this document will open i mean the next document. but anyway here we see in the framework we see we see really good will for this terminals for us is very important. and i think for security of european continent we have the biggest storage. >> good day. i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc. headquarters in new york city. >> what you have. >> been watching is a play. >> out. >> what we call a role of a meeting between president trump and ukrainian president zelenskyy. it turned contentious. it turned

combative. >> the president. >> accusing president. zelensky of. >> gambling with. >> world war. >> three, demanding he be. grateful for america's help stopping. >> the war. >> with russia. >> all of this. ahead of what. was supposed. >> to be. >> a meeting. >> between the. >> two of them to negotiate. >> a deal. >> over ukraine's critical mineral resources. now, the meeting. >> did start off cordially. >> it went downhill. >> though, once. >> they started taking questions. >> zelensky refusing. >> to. >> defer to president. >> trump. >> correcting his. >> false claims. >> about europe's. >> war support and at one point challenging the vice president over vladimir putin's version of diplomacy that led. >> to. >> the president and zelensky essentially shouting over each. >> other. >> with trump defending putin and telling zelensky. >> that he. was losing the war. >> i want to bring in nbc's yamiche. >> alcindor covering. >> the white house. rick stengel served as undersecretary. >> of state for. >> public diplomacy and public affairs under president obama.

he is also an msnbc political analyst and former u.s. >> ambassador to russia. >> michael mcfaul. i have to start with you, mr. ambassador, because i certainly have never seen anything like what we just watched unfold between the president. >> of the. >> united states and the leader of another country. give me your take. >> on what we've. >> just witnessed. >> or whatever. >> it might be. >> we're on live tv, so i'm not going to speak in terms that i would speak if we were off the air, but this was horrific. >> this was. >> a tragedy. >> and a. >> tragedy for american national security interests. i want to really emphasize that this does nobody any good. this doesn't make the american people better off tomorrow. the senator now, vice president vance, pleading for the leader of a country to pledge his fealty to the president trump and say thank you. i want to remind your your viewers, president zelenskyy said, thank you to the american

people a thousand times. use chatgpt, mr. vice president, and look for it. and by the way, senator vance voted against that aid to ukraine. so this the paradox of that, it just was shocking to me. and we need to they need to sign this deal. this deal was good for the united states, was good for ukraine. and instead of signing that deal, we were relitigating biden and obama. and i just wish the president would put our interests today front and center and stop litigating what happened in 2016 or before, because that is not in america's national interest. >> rick stengel, not only did he talk about what he thought, what. president trump says is the problems that were caused by both president obama and president biden. but somehow hunter biden. got put. >> in.

>> the middle of this. but let me play something that the ambassador just referenced, and that was the clear upset on the part of both vice president vance and president trump that they felt that president zelensky was not appreciating enough what the united states was offering to do for them or has done for them. let me play that first piece of sound that came again from the end of what you're looking at right now. and when that happens again in this playback, we'll play it for you full. but let's take a listen. >> you got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards with us. you have the cards. but without us, you don't have any cards. >> and you can see the look on president trump's face. rick stengel, let me get your reaction. >> he sounded. >> there like. >> one of the. >> heads of. >> the five families. >> i agree with.

>> mike. >> and one of the things. >> as. >> as the ambassador. >> knows is. that in diplomacy. >> you prepare and. prepare and prepare for meetings. >> so that something. >> like this doesn't happen. >> trump treats. >> everything as. >> as though it's a television show, and. >> in this case, it's a live television show. >> he even. >> said at. >> the end, this is going to. >> make great tv. >> i think i watched the beginning of it and zelensky said, thank you a number of times. it is hypocritical for the vice president who voted against aid. >> to ukraine, to. >> ask mr. zelensky. >> to thank him for it. >> it's also. >> so at variance with. >> the. >> last 75 years of american. history since. >> the marshall plan. >> the marshall plan. >> was one of the greatest acts of international generosity in world history. and we didn't ask the french or the germans or the japanese to say thank you, but they were grateful. and that. >> is. >> part of.

>> the reason why. >> our our soft power has helped america over the years. ironically. >> the very. >> reason that. >> we have to sign this agreement for rare earth materials. >> for. >> for rare metals. is that the. chinese have cornered the world market. >> on all of. >> this material. >> that we need. >> for electric vehicles, for computers, for phones. >> in part. because of their efforts. >> of soft. power around the. >> world and making deals. >> all around the world while we've been sitting on. >> our hands. so there's. >> lots of. >> ironies and hypocrisies. >> here. >> and i guess it is very dramatic, but it's. exactly the. >> kind of drama. >> that we don't want to see. >> all right, let me go to you, michelle cinder, because, yamiche, as we mentioned at the top of this, this all started out in a more cordial and i would say traditional way. we heard president trump talking about the fact that we'll be having lunch together, and we're going to be talking about where we go next. he talked about he

talked about the number of both ukrainian and russian soldiers who have died. and he says, we want to be able to stop it. but that kind of more traditional diplomacy did not last long. tell us more about what happened in what. i guess you might have a better read on. this was a good 45 or 50 minutes of what we call a spray. in other words, usually the cameras go in. they take some quick pictures of the two leaders, they may make a couple of quick statements, and then they're out in a matter of minutes. that has not been the practice under president trump, but give us a sense of what happened inside that oval office. >> well, chris, i don't think it's an overstatement to say that this is one of the most extraordinary oval office sprays that we've seen in american history. and what we saw was president trump really doubled down on what has been his very critical rhetoric of the ukrainian president, volodymyr zelensky. and we've seen him online berate the president of

ukraine. we've seen him online, accused ukraine of starting the war, though we know that russia was the one that invaded ukraine three years ago. but here in the oval office, the president went and did this to the face of the president of ukraine. and along with him, the vice president, jd vance. together, they really were trying to, i think, in some ways really put a pin on the idea that they believe that ukraine is in, not in the position to negotiate, that they need to be dictated to them, what the united states can do for them. and you saw the president also, in some ways, really not want to answer questions about the responsibility that russia has for this, because at one point, the ukrainian president said we had a deal with vladimir putin. he did not respect the cease fire. he broke the negotiation. we were supposed to not be in this war. and you saw president trump and jd vance not wanting to talk about that. instead, they wanted to instead just hammer home with the idea that they thought that the ukrainian president was not being graceful enough and thankful enough for

what they have already done for him. i think what's really interesting here is that we're supposed to be having this agreement on this rare earth minerals deal. it was, by the way, ukraine's idea to have access, give access to their minerals in exchange in some ways and as and as a sort of thing that they wanted to put out there in order to get help pushing back on russia. but her, i'm really interested to see whether or not that agreement is going to still go forward, because zelenskyy had already said that he didn't want to go with this other agreement, that that president trump was trying to have him do, which was to give the united states 50% ownership over those rare minerals. and that's when you saw president trump calling zelenskyy a dictator. i think this is just an extraordinary show of what president trump wants to do in his second term. and that is really this dictatorship, this, i should say, this diplomacy, rather not dictatorship, this diplomacy by criticism and by by strong hands. so this was really the president trying to trying to really stand there and be very, very strong against the ukrainian president and the

ukrainian president to his credit and to and to what he was trying to do was stand up for his country. i don't know how this is going to end for him and whether or not this is going to be something where we actually see an agreement come forward because of what president trump and him have been able to already talk about in this oval office spray. >> mr. ambassador, this is a man who has stood up for his country in the most extraordinary of ways, under the most dangerous and complex of situations going up against russia, a superpower. and you heard him very early on, president zelenskyy saying of vladimir putin, who we all know, president trump has a very different view of him. but volodymyr zelenskyy said he is a killer and a terrorist. i hope we can stop him. these crazy russians, they have stolen 20,000 children. and then he shared images. we could not see them of children. he handed photographs what we believe are photographs to donald trump, who

seemed to look at them. talk to me, ambassador, about how zelenskyy approached this, clearly not afraid to challenge the president, to challenge j.d. vance and speak the truth as he knows it and lived it. >> well, i think president zelenskyy was trying to educate president trump about the horrors the terrorists, the kidnapings of putin that as you've been talking about mr. trump, president trump has never been able to say before. and i think his strategy was, well, if he saw the horrors, maybe he would be less likely just to support trump. putin doesn't seem like it worked. and, you know, trump is always tough with with people like zelensky and the canadians and the panamanians and the colombians. he's never been tough. i'm using that word on purpose. he's never been tough with the dictator of russia, the guy that invaded ukraine, the guy that destroyed

the architecture after post world war two, when we said we're going to stop annexation of countries, we're going to stop allowing countries to invade their neighbors. and he's just never, ever criticized that. but the second thing i want to say is a point that that your other guests have just talked about, i organized sprays like this when i worked for president obama. i, i done diplomacy with the russians as the ambassador and as a white house official. and this is just violating all kinds of basic diplomacy one on one. so number one, the spray, like you insinuated it's supposed to last 20s you're not supposed to do an impromptu press conference like the president keeps doing. and when he does it, we don't have time to go through them all. he just constantly repeats things that are not true. they are not true. we did not give the ukrainians $350 billion, and we

look like fools to the rest of the world when we do that. number two, diplomacy happens best behind closed doors. that's why the spray is supposed to last 20s. and i just wish the trump team would understand that basic fact. the vice president to go behind closed doors. i've been in arguments with president obama and russian officials and other officials that got heated, but that's best to do behind closed doors. instead, what they keep doing is they keep negotiating in public because they're all tv personalities. and so they just throw out this stuff. you can't join nato. you got to give territory. we're not going to have our troops on the ground, and we're undermining our negotiating position. before we even started to negotiate. >> so i want to show a picture, rick stengel, if i can. and this is a picture of the pool. but in the pool is the ukrainian ambassador to the us, oksana

markova, and her head is in her hands. there is obviously any number of points. i don't know the exact point at which this happened, but i think for anyone who is familiar with traditional diplomacy of this might be, let's say, to say the least concerning, especially when you consider the stakes here, rick, which are let's be clear about this, the end of a war, the safety and security of the ukrainian people who had their country invaded, the safety and security of europe, as well as, by extension, the united states. where does this go from here? how do they go to lunch? will they even have a press conference? what do you imagine? i'm, you know, seriously, this was supposed to be a negotiation with the idea of ending this war. that has been so extraordinarily costly. where does this go from here?

>> yeah. >> that's a good question, chris. >> i mean, to go back where you started in the last few days, we've had this spectacle of two other world. >> leaders, the. >> the president of france, mr. macron, the prime minister of the uk, keir starmer. and their strategy has not been what. mr. zelensky strategy was. they metaphorically bended the knee. they flattered president trump. this is the kind of strategy that has worked in the past. that's not what mr. zelensky did. although at the beginning, as you say it was, it was much, much, much more cordial. where it goes from here is anybody's guess. i think president trump is proud of this deal, as he calls it, that involves rare earth metals and rare earth minerals. that's clearly in the us's interest. it would be in the interest of europe, of the europeans, i think. i think they

they do come to some kind of a settlement. in a strange way. i think trump is probably gleeful that he made such dramatic television and may, you know, even reward zelenskyy for it, but it is in the us interest to have a deal. and it's certainly in mr. zelensky's interest. i mean, it's been a horrific war. it can't be said too many times that putin invaded without provocation, the largest country in europe that has suffered more than almost any other place in europe. and that and that ending the war itself is something that is important, but ending it in a way that's fair, both. that's fair to the ukrainians and the great work that they've done, among the other falsehoods. and mike mentioned the 350 billion won is that the ukrainians, after the invasion, fought for weeks and months without any u.s. help, without any u.s. weapons. they defended ukraine.

putin thought the war would be over in three days, and the ukrainians heroically and majestically defended themselves. >> and in fact, zelensky at one point again defended his country. i want to play part of this exchange that was between president zelensky and vice president vance. it comes right after zelensky had gone through a long explanation of the history between ukraine and russia. he reminded vance that vladimir putin has signed ceasefire agreements before and broken them. take a listen. >> what kind of diplomacy jd you are speaking about? what what what what do you mean? >> i'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. >> yes, but. >> mr. president, mr. president, with respect, i think it's disrespectful for you to come into the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the american media. right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. you should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.

>> in ukraine, that you say what problems we have. >> i have been to. >> come one. >> i have actually, i've actually watched and seen the stories and i know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour. mr. president. >> he's watched. >> and seen the stories, mr. ambassador, that exchange touched off something broader, nastier, deeper. i wonder what you make of that. and i'll ask you the same question that i just asked rick, which is then where does this go from here? >> i don't know, this is so depressing to watch. you know, our vice presidents, he won the election. i congratulated them all. the power to them. he's got his ideas. but i just wish we could get this into a more professional channel. honestly, he obviously does not know what's happening in ukraine. he is propagating things that are

not true. i speak to ukrainians every day. i speak to soldiers every day. they have held the line there. and if the vice president wants to see true, heroic, heroic efforts, he should go and judge for himself, just like president zelenskyy said. but the real thing is we need to get the vice president out of the negotiations here. he is not an expert on these issues. we need the secretary of state to reassert himself and to take charge of these negotiations. otherwise, we're not going to be helping here. and i want to be crystal clear about this. do do we understand what's going on here? you know, when hitler invaded poland, we didn't take the side of hitler. when the soviets invaded afghanistan. we didn't take the side of the soviets. when saddam hussein invaded kuwait and annexed kuwait, we didn't take the side of saddam. this is a historic turning point in terms

of american foreign policy, where instead of siding with the democrats, the president is alluding, he wants to side with the autocrat, the dictator, putin. and that is not in america's long term national interest. this will lead to a disaster. we will lose our allies in europe, in asia, we will embolden people like xi jinping. and that's why this is so tragic to me. and i hope the president understands and that he is not with the american people on this. a poll last week, the quinnipiac poll said 81% of americans don't trust putin. i hope the president understands that he is really out of touch with even his own base. when he sides with putin against the democratically elected president of ukraine, whose country was invaded by vladimir putin. there should be no ambiguity about that. he's the same guy seizing, annexing their territory, kidnaping their

children. america should be on the side of right, both because it's the right thing to do. but it's also in our long term national security interests. and i hope the professionals around the president and i'm calling on the secretary of state in particular, because he knows what i'm saying is to be true. they've got to wrestle control of this and get this back in a channel where the professionals are negotiating, and we're not just negotiating on the fly in a press spray where facts don't seem to matter. >> well, we're getting our first reaction from the white house as we're questioning whether or not a lunch occurred. a meeting occurred, whether a press conference will occur. let me go back to yamiche alcindor. i understand that the white house has put out a statement. >> that's right. president trump has just put out a statement after this extraordinary exchange between him and the president of ukraine. he wrote online, we had a very meaningful meeting in the white house today. much was learned that could never have been understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. and here's

the part that you really have to lean in on here. it says it's amazing what comes out through emotion. and i've determined that president zelensky is not ready for peace if america is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. i don't want advantage, i want peace. he was disrespectful to the united states of america and its cherished oval office. he can come back when he is ready for peace. so i am very interested now to understand what this means in terms of whether or not president zelensky will essentially be shown the door here at the white house today. there was supposed to be a press conference. these two leaders were also supposed to be announcing an agreement on ukrainian rare minerals, where the where the united states was going to have valuable rights to those rare minerals. now, it's not clear whether that's going to happen. and it really goes back to the fact that this exchange got so personal and so nasty. i've also been talking to some white house officials. they've been really putting up online that they are happy about the way that this went. this was really president trump wanting to show that he has a strong hand here. and the vice president's office is also

really showing off and saying that they are very, also very happy with the way that this went, despite the fact that ukrainians are feeling shock here. and the president, of course, the president trying to stand up for his country, the president zelensky, there's a real sense inside the white house in talking to officials that they got across what they wanted to, which is that they believe that the ukrainian leader here is overplaying his hand and that he needs the united states much more than the united states needs any sort of negotiations with russia or ukraine. so that is what the president is putting out, saying again, that he believes president zelensky is not ready for peace. a lot of questions about whether or not he even stays at the white house at this point. chris. >> yeah, and exactly what he means by that. rick. we're going to have to wait to find out. but we know what the white house press office thinks about this because they tweeted that clip. the video of vance, jd vance, the vice president, calling president zelensky disrespectful and what the white house at white house wrote on x president

donald j. trump and vice president jd vance put in all caps. america first. rick, what are we to make of where we are right now? do you think that at least in the short term, this is dead? is this playing out for political reasons to president trump and jd vance, his base? what do you think is going on here? >> well, chris, i would say first of all, beware of insecure leaders. beware of men who talk about being disrespected. it's not a diplomatic term. what's happened is, is really a tragedy. that statement from the white house is amateurish and poor. the beneficiary of this is vladimir putin in the kremlin. i think there laughing and high fiving each other and saying, you know, they could never have

expected something like this. i mean, it's not in the us's interest. it's not in the american people's interest. as as mike said earlier, americans don't trust putin. they admire the valor of the ukrainians. this is a war that should come to an end. and it feels like we're much further away from that today than we were yesterday. and that's a tragedy. >> so, mr. ambassador, what we're looking at on the screen right now, if you can see it on the right and you see that car adorned with the us and the ukrainian flags, that is zelenskyy's vehicle, it is waiting for him outside of the white house. we don't know. we have gotten no official word whether the two presidents are meeting. we have got no official word on whether or not the press conference that was scheduled has been canceled. but let me ask you, rick, to expand on what

we just heard from the ambassador, both in terms of what the reaction must be inside the kremlin now, but also among our allies, particularly our european allies. and given the fact that very recently we saw both president macron from france and the prime minister of the uk trying to talk to donald trump, trying to convince him about the path to peace, what do you imagine the reaction is among our allies as well? >> chris? i think they are saying to themselves and saying to each other that it's really on us now. among the many misstatements and falsehoods that president trump has uttered is the this idea that the us has given more to ukraine than the europeans. in fact, it's about par, you know, 80 to 100 billion for each. and no, it wasn't a loan that the that the europeans gave them, they gave them. they

were outright gifts. i think the europeans are thinking we now have to form a kind of a union, a kind of nato without the us to prevent putin from invading sovereign countries in europe. you know, if putin is rewarded for this, then, you know, people are thinking about what's going to happen in the baltics, what's going to happen in other countries that that russia borders. i don't want to be melodramatic about it, but i think the europeans are thinking, we're going to have to give more. we're going to have to give more military support. we may have to send troops from different european countries into ukraine, because now the us, again, as mike said, in a kind of a historical anomaly that is, you know, at variance with with the last 75 years of

our history has essentially sided with the aggressor, with a with a large international bully that has invaded a much smaller country. that's something we've always stood against. and i agree that it's not in our long term interest. i don't even think it's in our short term interest. >> let me go back into the oval office now as it continues to play. this is the last section of the spray, as we called it, between president trump and president zelensky. let's listen. >> and i want to get this thing over with. you see the hatred he's got for putin. it's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. he's got tremendous hatred and i understand that. but i can tell you the other side isn't exactly in love with you know, him either. so it's not a question of alignment. i have to i'm aligned with the world. i want to get the thing set. i'm aligned with europe. i want to see if we can get this thing done. you want me to be tough? i can be tougher than any human being you've ever seen. i'd be

so tough. but you're never going to get a deal that way. so that's the way it goes. one more question, please. >> i will respond to this. so look, for four years, the united states of america, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about vladimir putin. and then putin invaded ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. the path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. we tried the pathway of joe biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the united states words mattered more than the president of the united states. his actions. what makes america a good country? is america engaging in diplomacy. that's what president trump is doing. >> can i ask you? >> sure. yeah. yeah. >> okay. >> so he occupied our parts, big parts of ukraine, part of east and crimea. so he occupied it on

2014. so during a lot of years, i'm not speaking about just biden, but those time was obama, then president obama, then president trump, then president biden, now president trump. and god bless. now president trump will stop him. but during 2014, nobody stopped him. he just occupied and took he killed people. you know what the contact. 2015. >> 2014 2014 2014. >> yeah. so he. >> was not here. >> yeah, but. exactly right. yes. but during 2014 till 2022, your what the situation the same that people are been dying on the contact line. nobody stopped him. you know that we had conversations with him a lot of conversations bilateral conversation. and we signed with him me like a new president in 2019 i signed with him the deal i signed with him. macron and

merkel. we signed ceasefire, ceasefire. all of them told me that he will never go. we signed him. guess contract, guess contract. yes. but after that he broken the ceasefire. he killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. we signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. what kind of diplomacy? jd, you are speaking about? what what what what do you mean? >> i'm talking. >> about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. >> yes. >> mr. president, mr. president, with respect, i think it's disrespectful for you to come to the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the american media. right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. you should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict. >> to ukraine, that you say what problems we have. >> i have been to one. i have actually, i've actually watched and seen the stories and i know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a

propaganda tour, mr. president, or do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? and do you think that it's respectful to come to the oval office of the united states of america and attack the administration that is trying to trying to prevent the destruction of your country? >> a lot of questions. let's start from the beginning. sure. first of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. >> god bless you. >> god bless you. god bless you. >> don't tell us what we're going to feel. we're trying to solve a problem. don't tell us what we're going to feel. >> i'm not telling you. >> because you're in no position to dictate that. >> remember this. >> you're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. we're going to feel very good. we're going to feel very good and very strong influence. you're right now not in a very good position. you've allowed yourself to be in a very bad. >> position. >> and it happens to be right. >> about from the very beginning

of the war. >> you're not in a good position. you don't have the cards right now with us. you start having cards. cards right now you don't. you're playing. >> cards. >> you're playing cards. you're gambling with the lives of millions of people. you're gambling with world war three. you're gambling with world war three. and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have. >> have you said thank you once this entire meeting? no. in this entire meeting, have you said thank you? you went to pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in october, offer some words of appreciation for the united states of america and the president who's trying to save your country. >> please. you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you. >> are not speaking loudly. he's not speaking loudly. your country is in big trouble. >> can i. >> wait a minute? no, no. you've done a lot of talking. your country is in big trouble. >> i know. >> you're not winning. no,

you're not winning this. you have a damn good chance of coming out, okay? because of. >> mr. president, we are staying in our country, staying strong. from the very beginning of the war, we've been alone, and we are thankful. i said thanks. you haven't been this cabinet in this case. >> we gave you. >> through this. >> stupid president, $350 billion. you we gave you military equipment. >> you and. >> your men are brave but they had to use our military. if you didn't have our military equipment. >> you invited me. >> you didn't have our military equipment. this war would have been over in two weeks. >> in three days? i heard it from putin in three days. this is something maybe less in two weeks. of course. yes. >> it's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, i tell you. >> you say thank you. >> i said. >> except that there, except. >> the american people. >> except that there are disagreements. and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the american media. when you're wrong, we know that you're wrong. >> but you see, i think it's good for the american people to see what's going on. i think

it's very important. that's why i kept this going so long. you have to be thankful you don't have the cards. you're buried there. your people are dying. i tell you, you're running low on soldiers. >> listen. >> you're running low on soldiers. it would be a damn good thing. and then you. then you tell us. i don't want a cease fire. i don't want a cease fire. i want to go, and i want this. look, if you could get a cease fire right now, i tell you, you take it. so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. >> of course we want to stop the war. >> but you're saying you don't want to see? >> i said to. >> you, i want a ceasefire, guaranteed. because you get a cease fire faster than an agreement. >> people about cease fire. wha? they think. that wasn't for you. >> that wasn't with me. that was with a guy named biden who was not a smart person. >> but that was that. >> was with obama. >> it was your. >> excuse me? that was with obama, who gave you a sheetz and i gave you javelins. yes. i gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. obama gave you a sheetz. in fact, the statement

is obama gave sheetz and trump gave javelins. you got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards with us. you have the cards, but without us, you don't have any cards. >> one more. >> question. >> mr. vice president. >> sorry. >> a tough deal to make because the attitudes have to change. >> what? >> breaks ceasefire? what if russia. breaks peace talks? what do you do then? i understand that. it's a. >> heated conversation, right? >> what are you saying? >> what she's asking. what if russia breaks the ceasefire? >> what if they. what, if anything? what if a bomb drops on your head right now? okay, what if they broke it? i don't know, they broke it with biden because biden didn't respect him. they didn't respect obama. they respect me. let me tell you, putin went through a hell of a lot with me. he went through a phony witch hunt where they used him and russia, russia, russia, russia. you ever hear of that deal? that was a

phony. that was a phony. hunter biden, joe biden scam, hillary clinton, shifty adam schiff. it was a democrat scam. and he had to go through that. and he did go through it. we didn't end up in a war. and he went through it. he was accused of all that stuff. he had nothing to do with it. it came out of hunter biden's bathroom. it came out of hunter biden's bedroom. it was disgusting. and then they said, oh, oh, the laptop from hell was made by russia. the 51 agents. the whole thing was a scam. and he had to put up with that. he was being accused of all that stuff. all i can say is this he might have broken deals with obama and bush, and he might have broken them with biden. he did. maybe. maybe he didn't. i don't know what happened, but he didn't break him with me. he wants to make a deal. i don't know if he can make a deal. the problem is i've empowered you to be a tough guy, and i don't

think you'd be a tough guy without the united states. and your people are very brave. but you're either going to make a deal or we're out. and if we're out, you'll fight it out. i don't think it's going to be pretty, but you'll fight it out. but you don't have the cards. but once we sign that deal, you're in a much better position. but you're not acting at all thankful. and that's not a nice thing. i'll be honest. that's not a nice thing. all right. i think we've seen enough. what do you think this is? this is going to be great television. i will say that. all right. we'll see what we can do about putting it together. thank you. >> all right, guys, let's go back. >> you guys. >> come on, let's go. >> we'll see i don't know. >> all right guys, guys. come on. please. hey. let's go, let's go guys. come on, let's move. please, please. thank you. >> get a thumbs up from vladimir

zelensky. but we are waiting to see if he departs in that vehicle that you see parked outside of the white house. because that was, to say the least, the most contentious confrontation between world leaders perhaps we have ever seen, certainly on television in the oval office and the president of the united states refusing to answer the question, which is a critical question if a deal is made and vladimir putin breaks it, then what? he went off and started talking about barack obama and joe biden and hunter biden, and he says he wants to make a deal. he's never broken a deal with me, but did not respond to the question, nor what president zelensky had said earlier. how many times vladimir putin in the past has broken deals? i want to go, first of all, if i can, back to yamiche alcindor, because i know now we

have information about what happens next and it's not a press conference. correct? >> that's right. white house officials have said that the press conference that was planned between volodymyr zelensky, the president of ukraine, and president trump is officially canceled. that's at a press conference where they were supposed to be announcing this deal, where the us would get valuable rights to rare earth minerals in ukraine. that is not we're not sure if that's going to be an agreement that they will make later on. i think we also have to remind folks what president trump said online after this testy exchange, one of the most testy exchanges we've ever seen in the history of the oval office. and i will say, just if these are live pictures, we're watching the president of ukraine get into his vehicle that's at the white house, leave the white house right now, it seems. and the president, president trump said this, president zelensky is not ready for peace if america is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. i don't want advantage, i want peace. he disrespected the united states and its cherished

oval office. he can come back when he is ready for peace. so that is essentially vladimir zelensky being shown the door at the white house, about to leave the white house. now, this is not how things were supposed to go. and it really does underscore just how personal, just how angry, just how testy that exchange between president trump, who was talking about the fact that he believes that president zelensky was not being thankful enough for the help that he's gotten from the united states. and president zelensky was trying to say that vladimir putin, the president of russia, has broken many deals in the past and that he doesn't trust that he would be able to have an agreement where there if there was a ceasefire to be reached, that he doesn't trust vladimir putin. so very, very interesting here. but this is all unfolding very quickly. but as you see, chris. volodymyr zelenskyy, volodymyr zelensky is about to leave the white house and any sort of press conference, any sort of things that were supposed to happen after this oval office spray are officially canceled. >> chris joining me now, also, marc polymeropoulos, former cia

officer and an msnbc national security and intelligence analyst. this is not, marc, what we expected today as we watch the chevy van leaving the white house and heading to take volodymyr zelenskyy off of the white house grounds for the white house, they're making it clear that this is how they see what just happened. they see this as a opportunity for them to message what they believe is that the united states has wasted billions of dollars better spent at home for ukraine, although once again, president trump misrepresented that the u.s. has given ukraine $350 billion in aid, that number is actually $124 billion over the entire conflict. they presented him as ungrateful as disrespectful suggesting that what he was saying and doing was leading to world war three. as an expert on this mark what does

this mean? what is your message as people are watching and listening to this, what does this mean for u.s. national security, for european security and security around the world? >> so i share the disillusionment that ambassador mcfaul was talking about. this was a disgraceful performance by the president of the united states, a disgraceful performance by the vice president. they have humiliated the united states on the world stage. it reinforces all the suspicions of our european partners that america can no longer be trusted as an ally. and i think at the end of the day, you know, perhaps this puts to rest some of the things we've been we've been hearing that, you know, there are some members in the gop, for example, senators and others who are trying to change president trump's mind. i think that's gone at this point. certainly, there was efforts by their european partners to come and kiss the ring. and you saw that both from macron and starmer.

but but ultimately none of that was successful. and so what you saw today was, i think, the true shift in u.s. foreign policy, you know, it is not values based. we have an administration that's acting like a mafia family trying to shake down our allies. and i think this is going to have profound effects. i literally have been watching this. stunned. this is not the way. certainly it was even to be scripted. i'm not quite sure why vice president vance came in so hard against zelensky, but humiliating an ally on the world stage does not certainly advance us national security interests. and i would say that i cannot imagine, you know, marco rubio, who has been a influential voice in u.s. foreign policy. he was sitting there. he can't think this was a good thing. the national security advisor, mike waltz, again, someone who was very respected as well, someone who has supported ukraine in the past. i cannot imagine that they

thought that that thinking is that this went well. and i do wonder is how do people who actually are serious about national security and the republican party recover from this? because at the end of the day, this was an absolute catastrophe, and i think it will have profound effects on our european partners as well. who is going to look at this now and say the us is not our ally anymore? that does not serve united states of america? >> there was definitely a thought ambassador when marco rubio was voted on for secretary of state and supported by the democratic party, that he would be a moderating voice, that he was somebody who has a vast understanding of geopolitics and has traveled the world and understands the situation. what we did learn, however, in this particular i don't even know what to call it a spray, but it was it was something that that defies explanation. we learned that there was a conversation that donald trump had earlier

this week, and we heard it in his own words. let me play that in case people missed it. amid everything else that happened. >> what did russia. crazy peace talks. what do you do then? understand that it's a. >> heated conversation, right? >> what are you saying? >> what she's asking what if russia breaks the ceasefire? >> what if they. what, if anything? what if a bomb drops on your head right now? okay, what if they broke it? i don't know, they broke it with biden because biden didn't respect him. they didn't respect obama. they respect me. let me tell you, putin went through a hell of a lot with me. he went through a phony witch hunt where they used him. and russia, russia, russia, russia. you ever hear of that deal? that was a phony. that was a phony. hunter biden, joe biden scam, hillary clinton, shifty adam schiff. it was a democrat scam. and he had to go through that. >> when did you last speak with. >> president putin.

>> and what did he say. >> a couple of days ago? >> and what did what did he tell you that gave you the assurance. >> that he wanted peace? >> well, that's what i do. my whole life is deals. i know pretty good. and i really i've i've known him for a long time. i've dealt with him for a long time. he had to suffer through the russia hoax, you know, russia, russia, russia was a hoax. it was all biden. it was nothing to do with him. so he had to suffer through that. and he was able to do that. i think that he wants to make a deal, and he'd like to see it end. that's all i do. that's what i do my whole life. that's what i do, is make deals, and i'm in the middle of a mess because this is a real mess. >> so that's the first we've learned that, mr. ambassador, that there has been a conversation between, again, someone you know. well, vladimir putin and the president of the united states. again, when asked about any assurances he may have given that he wants peace, he said, my whole life is deals. i know pretty good. when i've known him for a long time. i've

dealt with him a long time. what do you imagine that conversation might have been like, and any assurances vladimir putin may have given? and in your experience, how much trust you can put in anything that vladimir putin tells you? >> well, i wasn't part of the conversation. we didn't get a readout. this is also unusual for the white house. we usually get readouts about presidential calls. i can guarantee. you a. >> heads up that they happened. even if there's not a readout. >> exactly. yeah, it this is we're just in new territory and all sorts of ways, both on the big substantive things and in the way that this administration does diplomacy. but a couple of things that i have negotiated with putin. i've been on the other side of the table and we've gotten deals with him, by the way, in the obama administration. i want to remind everybody, mr. trump, president trump keeps saying he's this great dealmaker when it comes to diplomacy. i don't know what his record was in terms of real

estate deals in new york. you know, i'm been reading art of the deal here to try to figure out the way he does deals. but i want to remind everybody he didn't know deals with putin in four years as the president of the united states. not one thing that was good for our country. no arms control agreement, no agreement on iran, no trade deal, no. and especially no deal on ukraine. the president zelensky was trying to explain to the vice president that they have a misconception, the war in ukraine. putin invaded ukraine in 2014 and that war continued in eastern europe, in eastern ukraine, donbas. for four years. thousands of ukrainians died during that. and then he launched a full scale invasion in 2022. and in the four years there were agreements, there were things signed and putin violated them. and the president

of the united states at the time didn't do anything to end that war. and that's why president zelensky wants to have a security guarantee. and for the president, just president trump, to just make fun of it like we nobody knows what you're going to do. well, i can't imagine that in when he was doing deals in new york, he didn't have some guarantees. they were probably legal guarantees called contracts or something like that, that that the other side of the table would have to adhere to the agreement. so i hope that they can get this back on track. i'm not optimistic anytime soon. and the last thing i want to say, our side, the vice president, the president kept saying, we're trying to help you here. it's not clear to me that they're trying to help a peace deal here. it seems like they're just more interested in a new relationship with vladimir putin. and what happens in ukraine is kind of immaterial to them. >> well, we are seeing quite a few senate republicans who have,

frankly, good things to say about what just happened and praising the president and in some cases, the vice president as well. i won't read all of those tweets. but among the senate republicans who have praised for what they just saw from president trump, senator mike lee, senator bernie moreno, senator tommy tuberville, senator roger marshall, senator rick scott, senator jim banks. on the democratic side, we heard from chuck schumer, chris murphy, adam schiff and brian schatz who said simply, shame, shame, shame. brendan boyle, house democrat, this was a great day for vladimir putin. president trump and vp vance are the best lackeys he ever had. from a political messaging standpoint. rick, is this a win for the president? >> you know, chris, his whole life and his whole shtick is

about appearing tough. that doesn't mean you are tough. i remember president obama used to say, if you're making some negotiation, you're assigning some policy in order to appear tough. maybe that isn't the right policy. so i think they're taking their cues from trump's feeling like he bested mr. zelensky in this dialog. you know, i was happy to hear vice president vance talk about diplomacy. but diplomacy is what happens behind the scenes. diplomacy is not negotiating in public in a spray. and the more i see the, the dialog, the more i feel like zelensky was ambushed. what was the vice president doing? why was the vice president so zealous in attacking him and asking for thanks for something that he was against? so i would i would like to see if there's more reporting about that. i do think, again,

that we're we're much further away from a deal right now than we were yesterday. and that's a tragedy for everybody. and as everybody has said, it's this really kind of terrible realignment of america's role in the world that we are no longer the superpower, that that comes to the aid of countries that are oppressed. but we are in a kind of a transactional mode where it's, what have you done for me lately? and that's that's a new era of diplomacy that is sad and bad for our allies and isn't good for the world either. >> it's a complicated question, and we only have a couple of minutes before we need to go to break, mr. ambassador, but i also know you have to leave us. what is donald trump besides the praise of some far right republicans and some of his base who really just don't want money going abroad? they want it to stay here. what does the

president get out of this? >> i think that's a great question. and i don't have an answer. i just want to remind you, we have data about what the american people think about putin and the vast majority. how many polls have you all seen where 80% of the american people are on the same side, that they don't trust vladimir putin? what we just saw today is a giant gift to vladimir putin. the media already there, they're just they're just laughing. they're just what could be better for them that the country, they've invaded, the country they're trying to annex, the leader of that country, the democratically elected leader of that country, was just berated in front of the president. now, i think president zelensky could have handled it better, too. i think it was a mistake to get into all this back and forth. and sometimes you just want to shut these things down. and i hope that we'll think about that and get it behind closed doors. but i don't understand how this is in the interest of the american people. i'm sure it's not in our national interest,

and i don't think the president is going to drag along everybody to say, well, i think it's a good idea to be on the side of the dictators now, for 200 years, the american people, we've we've stood up for liberty and freedom and democracy. but now, under the trump administration, we're going to side with the autocrats. we're going to side with the dictators. i don't think that's going to be a winning message to most of the american people, maybe to some, but not all, and most certainly not all. even within the republican party. >> we're going to watch that video one more time. the press conference canceled vladimir, vladimir zelensky leaving the white house. i want to thank you, ambassador yamiche alcindor, rick stengel, mark polymeropoulos. and coming up, we'll have much more breaking news, analysis of that extraordinary meeting at the white house. ukraine's president shown the door. a press conference with president trump canceled after a shouting match. what really did devolve into raised voices in the oval office? senator mark warner, the top democrat on the intelligence committee, joins me live just

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