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five years of a great rate that won't change. it's back. but only for a limited time. high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. >> everybody has problems, even you. but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. >> god bless you don't know that. >> god bless you. god bless you. >> don't tell us what we're going to feel. we're trying to solve a problem. don't tell us what we're going to feel. you don't have the cards right now with us. you start having cards. cards? right now you don't. are you playing cards? >> you're playing cards. >> you're gambling with the

lives of millions of people. you're gambling with world war three. you're gambling with world war three. and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country. this country, your country is in big trouble. >> i know. >> you're not winning. you're not winning this. it's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, i tell you. >> you. >> say thank you. >> i said, except. >> that there. >> well, the meeting was intended to kick off negotiations over a deal for ukraine's rare earth minerals. instead, president trump posted on truth social quote, i have determined that president zelenskyy is not ready for peace if america is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. i don't want advantage, i want peace. he disrespected the united states of america in its cherished oval office. he can come back when he's ready for peace. i want to bring in ben rhodes, former deputy national security advisor and msnbc political contributor. we've known each other a long

time. i covered the obama white house when you were deputy national security advisor. i was in the oval for, i would say, un meetings like this, but there were no meetings like this or anything, even in the stratosphere of what we just saw. so talk about what you saw as someone who has been in the room countless times and what it means, can this relationship between the us and ukraine ben, be repaired? >> i've never seen anything like that in my entire life, chris. and you know, this isn't a question of like, did. something go right or wrong? you know, in other words. like when we were in the white house, you know, we got some things right, we got some things wrong, and people could argue about it. what i saw is a complete transformation of what the united states is in the world. president trump is not on the side of ukraine. so this was not a question of whether or not he has a different strategy to help ukraine. this is a

president who sides with vladimir putin in the war between russia and ukraine. and that's not like an alarmist statement, chris. that's what they've been telling us and showing us for the last couple of weeks. that's the fact. and i think that we have to adjust to a reality where we have a president who wants a world in. which big autocratic countries make deals with one another. ukraine is kind of meaningless beyond some transactional interest in extracting, you know, its critical minerals. and, you know, his whole approach to, you know, quote unquote peace, which he talks about. and i don't think he's really trying to bring peace, because if you give russia everything they want, that's not actually going to be peace. that's going to be a recipe for continued russian aggression in the future and continued russian destabilization of ukraine. i think what's interesting about this is he applies absolutely zero pressure or leverage on russia, the aggressor and all of the pressure publicly or privately is on ukraine as if

they are the culpable party to accuse zelensky of being the guy who's bringing us to the precipice of world war three, when all he did is get invaded by his nuclear armed neighbor? it just, you know, i'd say it beggars belief, except it's actually entirely predictable based on what we've seen. but i think we have to kind of change the paradigm for how we think about this, because we kind of think about it and talk about it as if, like, is this the right strategy to help ukraine end the war? no, he wants to help russia end the war. and that's what we just saw. >> one of the things that struck me that may not make a headline anywhere, ben, is where president trump looked at the ukrainian president and said, your people are dying. as if he didn't know that or wasn't living it. but let me ask you about how what the world just witnessed changes vladimir putin's calculus. if we're talking about some kind of negotiation to potentially end

the bloodshed that is happening in ukraine. well, how does vladimir putin look at this? and what does he think about it? and how does it change his calculus? >> well. >> ironically, it does the opposite of what trump wants, because now vladimir putin has no reason to make any kind of concession whatsoever to ukraine in any kind of negotiation. and so why wouldn't he just kind of continue to press his advantage on the front line, knowing that u.s. support is not going to be continuing for ukraine, and then just try to gobble up as much territory as he can before, you know, the u.s. support dries up and ukraine is forced to capitulate to some extent at the negotiating table. that's point one. so on ukraine, he has no reason to make any gesture towards, you know, peace. he has reason to take as much as he can from the ukrainians. i also think then he's looking at other countries in his neighborhood, whether it's georgia or moldova,

former soviet republics, or whether it's even the baltics that are in nato and thinking, well, the u.s. is not going to do anything to help any small country that is threatened by russia. and so how might i destabilize those countries? how might i further press my advantage in my in my region? because trump sees this as spheres of influence, and russia is kind of left to its own devices to do whatever it wants in its neighborhood. and then the last thing is, putin has got to be thinking, how can i drive divisions in europe? because now the only source of support for ukraine is europe. they don't have nearly enough weapons or capacity to ramp up their defense industrial base to support ukraine. and how can i play in european politics and power far right parties like the republican party of the united states, for far right parties in europe, so that there's a kind of divided europe. and i can be in a position where, you know, the europeans are on the back foot. ukraine. i'm swallowing up and waiting to take more of the territory in a year or two years or three years from now. and i'm just doing deals with the united states over europe's head, which

is, i mean, the world that vladimir putin has wanted since he, you know, saw the dissolution of the soviet union. that's everything he's wanted was in the oval office today, everything vladimir putin has ever wanted since he suffered the humiliation of the soviet union came full circle today. and he has the upper hand. >> and exactly what you just talked about, we just saw right in germany with the far right party getting more support than they have in the past. obviously they didn't get the majority of votes, but they they had a better showing than they have had. so you have keir starmer from the uk coming in and trying to talk to president trump earlier this week and then preceded by emmanuel macron, the president of france. how do you think our european allies are viewing this? and i just want to say, because the president has said so many times, wrong information about how much money the united states has spent and also how much money they have spent vis a vis european countries in terms of the gdp

spent on the war in ukraine, the us ranks 17th behind smaller countries close to russia, including estonia, denmark and lithuania. so just putting that out there, but in terms of our european allies, how are they viewing this? >> i think they're terrified, and i think that they are going to be adjusting to a world in which they no longer can count on the united states as a security guarantee, some of these european countries. to your point, as a whole, europe has given more to the united states. some of these individual european countries basically emptied their arsenals to support ukraine. and so they're sitting there without the kind of arsenals that they need to defend themselves. and without thinking that the united states will make them whole. because part of the idea was that, you know, the united states, over time, can help replenish european stockpiles have been diminished. so i think what you're going to see is the bigger countries in europe, france, germany and others developing an independent defense capability, developing an independent foreign policy and trying to figure out how to

survive in a world in which the united states is not an ally. and we keep saying european allies, but i mean, they must not feel like allies. trump is certainly not treating them like allies. and so i think they're trying to figure out how to be in a world. and i've talked to european leaders in the last few weeks, and it's like the rug was pulled out from under them, and they're just trying to figure out what it's going to be like to be in a world in which you can't count on the united states for anything. and if anything, you've got trump threatening terrorists on the eu and everything. i mean, if anything, the united states is behaving like an adversary. and that's where i'm just stressing. we have to kind of change the paradigm here in how we talk and think about this, because this isn't like a shift by degrees by trump. this is a 180 degree shift where the united states is aligned with different countries than it has been aligned with for the last century. >> i don't think anybody who pays any attention is expecting that there will suddenly be a major change, but is there a way to sort of move this back a little bit? and by that i mean,

for example, we know it may seem obvious, but the mineral deal was not signed, something that president trump said he wanted, something that he wanted to say. i was able to make this deal. i'm a deal maker. he also has what the white house sees as an advantage. they were able to sit in the oval office and call the president of, again, one of our traditional allies, ukraine, ungrateful and disrespectful and look tough to his base. is there a way that those things come together? he takes that what the white house considers to be a win. and in fact, the white house has posted that they see it as such and then come back to the table. and by the way, does marco rubio, who, you know, play any role in all this, do you think? >> well, first of all, there is you know, ukraine is a warring party. they don't have to agree

to peace, you know. so if what trump wants is to be able to say that he, you know, ended the war or ended the fighting, the ukrainians have to stop fighting. and, you know, this is a country that was planning potential guerrilla warfare at the outset of the war, if kyiv had fallen. and so, i think for europe and ukraine, it's making clear, wait a second. like you, you've you've excluded us from the negotiating table. if you actually want to achieve what you say and what you've kept promising people, you actually have to include us. and we've learned where your cards are. to take donald trump's analogy. and if your cards are with russia in europe and ukraine, have some cards to play. and because ukraine is in this war, i'll also say the lesson is you're not going to charm trump. i mean, i just we've been through this the first time around. i get why macron and starmer came you you'd like to think you can moderate trump, but you have to show some strength here in terms of what your own position is. i get that some people are going to say zelensky handled this poorly. i'm not going to sit

here in my comfortable house and say that a man who is the president of a country that has seen 20,000 of its children kidnaped and taken to russia and seen tens and tens of thousands of people killed, seeing war crimes committed in the grossest way in places like bucha, seen maternity hospitals bombed. do you think you would have the patience to sit there and be humiliated and see your country humiliated? to say that their propaganda, as j.d. vance said, when people visit ukraine and see horrible things, it's not propaganda that's true. that's the reality of what's happening in ukraine. the propaganda is what's coming out of j.d. vance's mouth and it's russian propaganda. and so i think in that circumstance, you're going to see, you know, whether ukraine and europe essentially come to a common position so that you're essentially in a negotiation between europe and ukraine and russia and the united states. and it really pains me as an american to say that. but that's that's where we are. yes. >> ben rhodes, thank you so

much. it's always good to talk to you. unfortunately, in a situation like this, let me bring in a republican member of congress. well, first of all, let me say what a republican member of congress just tweeted this reaction to that tense meeting, congressman don bacon calling it, quote, a bad day for america's foreign policy. that's a republican. joining me now, illinois democratic congressman mike quigley. congressman, do you agree with your republican counterpart? >> you know. >> i do. >> this is the trump vance. >> clown show. >> and it's horrifying. >> we are. >> fundamentally a. >> different country. >> than than what. >> we were just weeks ago. to our friends and foes alike. >> and we are fundamentally less safe. >> i have. >> to. >> say, the thing that struck me first and foremost was saying that they were ungrateful. >> i met. >> with ukrainian military. >> officials yesterday. i met

members of the rada. >> and the military. i met president. zelensky seven times since the war started. every meeting with them here and in ukraine began with their extraordinary gratitude. of what the united. >> states has. >> done to help. and they. >> continue to do that. >> and when i compare the president talking about zelensky not being legitimate. >> when in. his first term. >> he refused to. >> even question. putin versus. >> our own. >> intel community to ever say anything but nice things about putin, a tyrant who kills his. >> own people, who invaded. i stood. >> on. >> the. >> a mass grave at bucha. >> for him. to not question putin. >> the man who came. >> from kgb legitimacy. >> he's more. >> he's more. >> like putin. >> zelensky, who. >> is expressed. >> has gone through great risk for his life. at a time unlike.

>> the. >> the blitz. he reminds me of churchill. so this. >> is embarrassing beyond comprehension. >> i hope. >> my other. republican colleagues will stand. >> with us to do the right thing. >> you are co-chair of the house ukrainian caucus. and i wonder what kind of conversations you have now and what this means. you think for us foreign policy and for our relationship with our allies? >> i don't. >> know if we. >> have allies anymore. >> and that would have sounded hyperbolic just just a little while ago. but we're putting. tariffs on our closest, most important trade partners. we're telling the we're telling nato that it's on its own. we're telling the country that's involved with the greatest land war since. >> the second. >> world war that we have been supporting for all the reasons we fought the second world war, that. >> they're on their.

>> own. >> and we're. >> extorting them. >> for the second time and trump time as president. >> so that's why i. >> said i think we're less safe. again, goes back to the history presidents have who have done the right thing. since these have become an issue. >> in the. last century, have all spoken. >> eloquently in the opposite direction. fdr, in his last inaugural, said, we have learned that we. >> are dependent. >> on the safety of other countries. >> far away for. >> our own welfare. >> john f kennedy said, we will oppose any foe, and we will do. >> everything we can to help any friend. the reagan doctrine has been eviscerated by the trump. >> administration that. >> we always stand up against soviet aggression and our allies. >> i don't. >> know who our allies are anymore. >> i certainly. >> don't know. >> who would trust us anymore. >> congressman mike quigley, thank you so much. and i also want to bring in the democratic

senator from arizona, mark kelly, who met with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy just this morning. senator, first of all, let me get your reaction to what you saw in the oval office. and did you have any inkling at all that based on your conversation with president zelenskyy, this could turn quite so contentious? >> i did. >> not from our meeting. >> this morning. >> but, chris. >> let me just start by saying. what a. >> complete and. >> utter mess. >> and this is. >> a. >> gift to putin. >> and make. >> no mistake. >> and i hope. >> the american people get this, that. >> this makes. >> us. >> look weak and it's. >> not normal behavior. >> the united states. chris. >> we. >> are a superpower. our power is our military. >> our. >> economy, our diplomatic corps, our professionalism. this was. >> not professional. >> we don't gain anything by acting like bullies. >> and this is. >> what. >> bullies do. and just because you act this way, by the way, it doesn't mean that you're tough.

>> so this. >> is a mess. >> i hope. >> we. >> can repair this relationship. president zelensky and his country, they are grateful, you know. >> saying thank. >> you in the oval office. being put on. >> the. >> spot like that is. >> you know. >> it seemed to me that it was just, you know, j.d. vance saying. >> hey. >> look. >> what i can do, dad. and it doesn't help the situation. this should have this negotiation should have been. >> done behind, behind. >> closed doors. >> and this morning. >> we had a good, good meeting democrats and republicans in the senate that support ukraine. we had a good meeting with the president. we talked about. >> a lot of issues. >> we didn't do it in front of cameras intentionally. roger wicker, in fact, you know, asked there were some cameras there, and we had them leave the room before we started to. >> have the discussion. that's the way. >> you should do this. >> so let me ask you then about where this goes from here. and i wonder where your you think your republican colleagues will be because and i can't say that i have done an exhaustive search

because i've been on the air, but i've only seen one republican member of congress who is a member of the house, say anything negative about what they just saw in the oval office. and where does this go from here? and does congress have any role in it at all? >> well. >> we. >> have. >> a role. >> i mean, we do our. >> own negotiations. >> we do. >> our own diplomacy, so to speak. >> so we do have a role. >> we can. >> push the administration. >> hopefully we can get. >> them to. come back. >> to. the negotiating table here. but we. >> are in. >> a. much worse position. >> our european. >> allies especially. >> are looking at this, and they're. >> thinking to. >> themselves. >> i mean, what just happened? what happened to the. >> united states of. >> america that. >> used to be. >> the leader. >> of the free world? >> and, you. >> know, i pointed. >> out in our meeting this morning. >> you know. >> that i. >> was rather disappointed. >> that our country, we're about to celebrate our. >> 250th birthday.

>> which is a big deal. >> and it's exciting. >> but now. >> we're dealing with one of our allies. >> like this is a business transaction. >> i mean, that's. that's not the. >> way we have traditionally. >> done things. >> and so where do we. >> go from here? >> i mean, i think the president and the vice president. >> need to figure. >> out how do they. >> pick up. >> the pieces from this total disaster and get back. >> to the. >> table and negotiate in a way. >> that is who we are as a nation? i mean, we have principles. >> we have values. >> and we don't. >> berate our allies. >> in the oval office. i've never seen. >> anything like this before. >> and throughout. >> our entire. history there have there have. >> been a. lot of. >> tense negotiations. between countries. we don't do this in public. this did not this did not. >> get us anything. >> and i think. >> it's. >> important for. >> the. american people to understand. >> because of what happened today. >> we are all less safe.

>> and i'll tell. >> you, there was one winner. >> in this, chris. >> one winner. >> and if you watch russian. >> tv tonight or. >> tomorrow morning. >> you will see. that they're going to. >> cover this. they're going to. >> be happy about this. putin and. >> his cronies. >> are probably popping. >> champagne bottles right now. >> we should also do a fact check, even though i don't think most people need a fact check. but i'll say it anyway. in spite of what president trump has refused to say, russia invaded ukraine. vladimir putin made a decision to go into a sovereign nation and innocent people have di. tens of thousands of people have died, including women and children, not to mention the number of soldiers. >> he targets targets. schools and hospitals. >> he is a war criminal. >> and we have. members of this. >> government. donald trump's. >> government. that won't admit that russia invaded. >> ukraine, even though you can

clearly see, i mean, tanks. >> armored personnel, carriers, troops, weapons coming across the border. >> three years ago. >> if russia didn't invade ukraine, who was that? and they they they refuse to acknowledge what our facts. >> we do. >> not have to fact check that. >> and it is for that reason that the united states has been a staunch ally and has done a lot of work to get our allies together to support ukraine. arizona, your state has played an important role. they've served as a training base for ukrainian pilots. i know you've talked to them. what does it mean to ukraine? what does it mean to them to have less support in the us in this fight? >> i've met with. >> ukrainian pilots in. >> this office, one of which is now deceased. >> flying in combat in the f-16. >> i've met with. them at. >> davis-monthan air force base. they are just fighting. they're fighting. >> for. their lives, literally. >> and the.

>> reason we're. >> in. >> this is. >> not just to. >> help ukraine. >> this is in our own national. >> security. best interests. this keeps us safer. >> vladimir putin wants to rebuild the. soviet empire. >> he has made that very clear. if he. >> looks at what he. >> has done. >> in ukraine as a. positive thing, then we. >> should and can expect him to attack the nato ally, a baltic country, maybe. maybe poland. we talked about that with. >> president zelensky this morning. >> and if he does that, we. >> have an obligation. >> to. >> defend them. now. >> donald trump has. dismissed our nato. >> obligation like. it's somewhat optional. >> it is not optional. >> and having. allies keeps us safer. it keeps. >> our economy stronger. and what happened today. >> makes us look weak. >> and it is. >> making us less safe. >> senator, i have no

information that is being reported by nbc news, and i want to get your reaction to it, a white house official tells nbc. president trump and u.s. officials asked president zelensky to leave the white house, and that zelensky is not welcome back today. the official says zelensky did not walk off on his own, and that the ukrainians were asking u.s. officials for a reset and to continue with the meetings. but again, president trump and u.s. officials asked him to leave. your reaction? >> well, i saw that. i saw. >> i got kicked out of the. >> white house. president trump wants to look tough. >> i mean, this. >> is. >> a guy. remember? this is a guy that. avoided military service, you know, said he had. >> bone spurs. >> i think he has spent. his entire life. >> trying to look tough. but in him trying to look tough, he is making us less safe. and he's. making our entire country look weak. and who is the winner? >> it is vladimir putin. >> it is. >> a war.

>> criminal who is in. killing women and children and old people, targeting hospitals, targeting schools. a guy who should. >> be in jail. >> he is. >> the winner today. >> and when president zelensky. >> asked for a. >> reset, that's 100% what you. >> should do. you should get. >> back in the room. with the. cameras turned off. >> in private. have a. >> discussion about this. >> you know, maybe you take a break for a few minutes, regain. >> your composure. >> maybe you leave jd. >> vance outside of the room. >> you know, i didn't see. our secretary of state. >> should have been involved. >> you know, in this conversation. >> i voted for him. >> our fellow senators, we have a lot of confidence in him. >> i want to hea his. voice in this conversation. we put him there for. >> a reason. >> you know, he has traveled around the world. i know him well. we need other people. standing up to. when this. administration speaking truth. >> to. >> power, when they do. >> dumb things. >> we need people.

>> in the. >> administration speaking out. against it. so i'm. >> disappointed. >> you know, that. >> they kicked him out of. >> the kicked. zelenskyy out. >> of. >> the building. >> that's that is not productive. you know, they could have spent the entire afternoon trying to work something out. you know zelensky is probably on his. >> way to. >> an airplane now. and who knows. you know when the reset button. >> is going to get hit here. >> but i you know, if we don't. resolve this conflict, russia. >> is. going to. >> continue to. >> murder ukrainians. >> they're going. to over time, with the help of now the north koreans, they're going to claim. more territory. >> this is going to be a harder issue to resolve. >> it's going. >> to be harder to get. >> to peace. >> if it waits. >> i want this conflict. >> to end. >> but i want it. >> to end in the right way. >> and not on the side of the russians. i mean, it almost feels like we're we've almost. >> fully switched. >> sides here. that's not who we

are as a nation, chris. and i'm really disappointed. >> at what. i saw from the white. >> house today. >> senator mark kelly, you've been very generous with your time and your expertise as someone who has served in the military, and congress has dedicated your life to this country, is so much appreciated. thank you. >> thank you for having me on. >> i want to bring in nbc's yamiche alcindor. and i know that you have this reporting from the white house about what went on between not just volodymyr zelensky and a faceless set of people from us, but we also have reporting on who actually spoke to ukrainian officials. tell us what happened after that contentious meeting in the oval office. >> that's right. we have new details on what happened after that testy and really remarkable oval office exchange between volodymyr zelensky, the president of ukraine, and president trump. we now can report that the white house is saying this is a white house

official telling me that vladimir zelensky and ukrainian officials wanted a reset, that this is their take, the white house's take, but that secretary of state marco rubio, as well as national security adviser michael waltz, that they informed ukrainian officials that president zelensky needed to leave the white house in short order. this is, again, the white house's take. we're still out to ukrainian officials to understand whether or not they had a different view of this. but the white house is saying that ukrainian officials wanted to go forward because, of course, we know there's supposed to be a press conference. there was also supposed to be a rare earth minerals deal signed, where the u.s. would get valuable rights to ukrainian rare earth minerals. none of that happened. we also are being told that white house officials and president trump and vice president j.d. vance, they were especially angered and felt disrespected by a particular moment in this exchange. and we want to play it for folks. >> do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? and do you think that it's respectful to

come to the oval office of the united states of america and attack the administration that is trying to trying to prevent the destruction of your country? >> a lot of questions. let's start from the beginning. first of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. >> god bless. you don't know that. >> god bless you. god bless you. >> you don't tell us what we're going to feel. we're trying to solve a problem. don't tell us what we're going to feel. >> i'm not telling you. >> because you're in no position to dictate that. >> remember that you're not. >> you're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. you're going to feel very good. we're going to feel very good and very strong. >> will feel influenced. >> you're right now not in a very good position. >> well, i was also told by a white house official that the president was the vice president and us officials in that meeting, that they felt disrespected not only by what zelensky was saying, but also by his demeanor, saying that he was shrugging his shoulders and also rolling his eyes at parts of

this conversation. i also was told that the president does not want president trump, does not want president zelensky back at the white house until he's ready for peace. and i said, well, could that be today? could that be in short order? i was told no. coming back today is off of the table. and that president zelensky is not welcome back at the white house today, chris. >> yamiche alcindor, thank you. joining me now, two people who have experience working at the highest levels of american international diplomacy, former biden administration deputy state department spokesman ned price. back with us, marc polymeropoulos, former cia chief of operations in europe and eurasia and an msnbc national security and intel analyst. so, ned, we got a tweet from president zelensky, and this is what he says following that oval office meeting. thank you, america, for your support. thank you for this visit. thank you, potus, congress and the american people. ukraine needs a just and lasting peace, and we are working exactly for that. as

yamiche just reported, ned, president zelensky said he wanted to stay. he wanted to get things back on track. and he was told by the secretary of state, marco rubio, and the national security advisor, mike waltz, that the they told ukrainian officials that president zelensky needed to leave the white house. what do you make of that decision on behalf of the white house, followed by the tweet from president zelensky? >> chris. >> you started this hour talking. about the oval office, a place you have spent a lot of time. >> in. >> a place i have spent a lot of time. >> in and working around. and i think because of that. i could not. >> help. >> but feel almost physically queasy. watching what went down in. >> the oval office today. >> this is the venue. >> where presidents of both. >> parties, over the. >> course of decades and decades. >> have. >> stood on the side of. >> liberty and freedom. >> democracy really embodied.

embodying the moniker of leader of the free world. >> that, of course. >> is not what we saw today. what we saw today was an ambush, and i. think a premeditated ambush, both on. >> president zelensky. >> but on those. very values. >> you know, president. >> trump posted after the meeting that meetings like this can be clarifying, can be revealing. and i think he's actually right about that. >> as i listened. >> to. president trump. >> and as i listened to him. >> today, as. >> i listened to him with prime minister starmer and president macron earlier this week, president. >> trump time and again. >> has come back to this idea. >> that he. >> and president. >> putin have. suffered together because. >> of what he calls the russia hoax. meaning the investigations. going back to bob. >> mueller and. >> the. >> allegations that. >> have. >> dogged him since. >> the early days of his. >> first term. >> and even before that. >> it's becoming clear, chris, that president trump is not thinking in terms of america standing on the side of democracy, of liberty, of freedom, leading the free world.

he is thinking in. terms of his own. >> agenda. >> of political. retribution in his eyes. president putin. >> is a fellow victim. >> he suffered together with. president trump. president zelensky, in this. >> warped. >> warped worldview. is not the victim of. russian aggression. president zelensky is the. >> perpetrator of. what he calls the. >> russia hoax. >> that led to his. >> first impeachment. after that infamous. >> phone call, a. >> congratulatory phone call between. president trump and president zelensky. so i think if you. >> think in those. >> terms, not in terms of what is best for the american. >> people, what. >> is best for the united states, but how president trump is thinking about this through his own political lens, what is best for him politically? it helps to make sense of what we saw today. and i think the mere act of essentially ejecting the ukrainian president from the white house, we have seen, i think, stunningly, the. white house cabinet secretaries.

>> the secretary of agriculture. >> strangely really gloating. about this moment on social media. and i think it really it should crystallize, crystallize for. >> all of us. >> this is not on the level. this is not about america's national security. this is about appealing to a political base. and more. than anything, feeding president trump's sense of grievance and. >> that agenda of retribution. >> that is at the. >> center of everything he has been doing. >> do you think that because when you talk about it being a premeditated ambush and the white house was asked specifically about that by reporters and whether or not this was something that they planned, and of course, they said no, but to what political end? because, as ambassador mcfaul pointed out in our last hour, there are numerous polls that show something like eight out of ten americans don't think vladimir putin can be trusted. there is no confusion on the part of most the vast majority of americans, including the majority of republicans, about who vladimir putin is and what he represents. so to what end is

it just in your mind, ned, that simple, that straightforward that the president of the united states would gamble with what he called world war three because of a grievance that he feels he shares with the president of russia, who, by the way, we learned today, he had a phone call with a few days ago, and the ambassador and i were discussing the fact, you know, rick stengel as well. in the normal course of events, the press is notified, the american people are notified when there has been a call with an international leader. and most often there's a readout. it may not be detailed, but we know it happens. we didn't learn about that until today. >> chris, i. >> think you've already. >> put your finger on it in this hour. you have to search long and. hard to find a statement from an elected republican that in any way offers a rebuke of the really. despicable scene that we saw today in the oval office. i think we found one so far from don bacon, who has been

fairly consistently pragmatic and principled. >> in. >> his criticism. of this administration. you aren't going to find many more. not yet. and i don't think in the coming hours. that is because president trump has essentially a stranglehold on his own political base, and everything he. does is. >> to. >> cater to his political base. i could only laugh. to avoid crying. perhaps earlier this week when president trump. >> called, of. >> course, president zelensky a dictator. and then yesterday he reversed himself and for a moment at least pretended like he had never said that. only after so many republicans had done these contortions and these verbal gymnastics to try to justify calling president zelensky a dictator. so i think president trump knows that he has free license because of this really powerful. cult of personality around him to do as he pleases. and i think the

reaction that we're seeing from the white house, from other cabinet secretaries, from elected republicans, including republicans, who once. >> took a very. >> principled and really at for american stance on this brutal russian russian war of aggression. against ukraine. they are offering nothing but support for president trump. they are making the case that this is what it looks like to stand up for american interests. in reality, they could not be more wrong. this is what it looks like to subjugate america's interests to the political interests of one person, to the interests of one strand of a political party. unfortunately, a strand that that does seem to have a stranglehold on american politics. >> ned price, always good to have you on the program. thank you so much for being with us today. mark, if you could stick around, i, i want to bring in senator mark warner of virginia and mr. senator, if i can. we just got reaction from the former russian president dmitri

medvedev. he's now the security council deputy chair. and here's what he says about president zelensky. the insolent pig finally got a proper slap down in the oval office. and donald trump is right. the key regime is gambling with world war three. senator, what does that tweet tell you? and what's your reaction to what you saw in the oval? >> well, chris. let's look at. >> what are. >> unassailable facts. >> three years ago, russia brutally invaded ukraine. >> matter of fact, our intelligence. >> service predicted it. >> and our european. >> friends, frankly. >> didn't think he was. >> going to be. >> this brutal. >> three years later. >> 400,000 ukrainians have died. 700,000 russians plus. >> have died. >> for 70. >> years. >> america built. >> allies against russia. in many ways. >> ukrainians are. >> doing without. >> the. >> loss of a.

>> single american soldier. >> what we had geopolitically. >> thought about. prepared for. >> for 70 years. >> earlier this week. in one of the. >> most. bizarre moments. united states of. america voted. >> with russia. >> north korea, >> iran. >> nicaragua saying. denying the fact that that russia invaded ukraine. this is beyond bizarre. and the you know, i. >> just saw the clips. >> i don't know what. >> was pre-planned. >> or not planned. >> i do. >> know this. >> that this last. >> day of february. >> is a great victory. >> for authoritarians. >> it is a great victory. >> for russian interests. it further. >> undermines any. >> sense of alliance. >> and what i, i worry about is. >> how many. >> more of. >> these. >> incidents before. >> alliances that have.

>> been built. >> up over 70 years. people just say we can't. >> trust the. >> americans at all. and once. >> that genie comes out of the bottle. you can't. >> put it back. in just. >> with. >> the reversal. >> of saying, oops, we. >> made a mistake. >> so, senator, you call it beyond bizarre, but for the average american who wants to understand why we're hearing a level of concern, we're hearing, what would you say to them about what this means if a deal can't be made, if it's clear that there is an alliance and not just phone conversations, if there is an alliance between the president of the united states and the president of russia, what does it mean? >> well. >> if that is the case. >> and we don't have. >> evidence yet, but we've got this again. >> i particularly think. >> the stunning. >> nature of the un vote. >> earlier in the week, the un. >> is not. >> always that significant. but to see. >> that the. >> axis of evil that we voted with, not my words, others. >> and if ukraine. >> is.

>> fundamentally undermined. >> and forced. into a losing. ceasefire and we need a ceasefire, we. >> need a negotiation. >> that is true. >> but the notion. >> ought to be how we can enhance ukraine to have the best position possible. but if. we give. >> in and putin ends. >> up with what is. >> viewed globally. >> as a complete. surrender and a victory for putin. regardless of where. >> you. >> draw the lines. >> anyone who. >> thinks that vladimir. >> putin in his waning. >> years. >> who wants to reconstitute. >> the. >> soviet union. >> is not going to then go. >> after the baltic. >> nations or. go after poland. doesn't. >> know their. >> history and doesn't. >> appreciate what. >> really will. >> be at. >> stake. >> which will be. >> are we next. >> going to completely walk. >> away from. the nato. alliance and allow the balts. >> in poland. >> and other. nations that formerly were part. >> of. the iron curtain. >> alliance for that to be reconstituted, if that is allowed under this president's administration, there will. be no doubt that history will judge a time of when america. was

dramatically weakened for decades to come. >> so what? what happens now? how do you see this moving forward in a way that was suggested just at the beginning of the day, senator, that this should be which is that there find a path to peace in ukraine. >> well, listen, if there. >> was. if there. >> was an ability. >> to have this relationship on the. mineral deal and it's amazing. and i think it shows how flexible ukraine is, frankly, that this seemed to be kind of pop up two weeks ago. and the fact that the ukrainian. >> are prepared. >> to make some. >> level of detail. >> deal today, and i have no idea. normally a president would consult with congress on something of this matter. we are not. there is no formal consult. and i say that as as the former chairman and now vice chairman of the intelligence committee, it does show that ukraine is ready to sue for peace, but it ought to be able to sue for

peace in a way that doesn't give vladimir putin an undisputed win, because. and this should be beyond debate, is the proverbial you give putin an inch, he'll take a mile. that has been his history of now 25 years in power. and the people who are the people who are most nervous today are not only the ukrainian people, but latvia, lithuania, estonia, countries that have been subject to brutal russian aggression in the past poland, moldavia. >> moldova. >> romania, other adjacent nation states. if they feel like. >> there will be no value in. >> nato and you enhance russia's power and prestige in that region, and 30 years of movement towards democracy post the fall of the iron curtain, if that is all kind of given up for a short term real estate type

transaction, then i just hope americans, those of us who are that are old enough to remember the cold war, those of us who are old enough to remember, you know, the fact that we were trying to fight against russia and their allies aggression for literally decades. those of us who remember east germans going over the berlin wall and putting their life at risk, or hungarians trying to escape from soviet brutality, if that kind of alliance is, is recreated because america walks away from our commitments. i don't know how anyone wouldn't say that. that doesn't put us in a weaker position than, frankly, for future generations of young men and women who have to protect our nation, put them in greater harm's way. >> so do you believe, senator, it's possible that emotions got the better of these two men, or three or however many you want to count in this? it certainly is unusual for the leader of an allied country to be kicked out of the white house. but is it possible, do you think that this

could come back tomorrow, that cooler heads could prevail, that negotiations could continue? or do you think this is a serious enough situation where you will have conversations with other members of the intelligence committee, understanding that the democrats are not in charge of people who are in charge of the relevant committees. is it a time when the folks who are very experienced in foreign policy are going to be talking, are going to be making decisions, or at least coming to some kind of consensus about what the next step might be in terms of congressional roll. where do you see this going in. the next 24, 48 hours? >> yeah. >> i hope and pray that this was just a an emotional blow up. and i do think there is, you know, the president and the vice president are used to having their version of the facts never questioned. and i think you saw and i didn't see all the exchange. i just saw some of the clips. it sounds it appeared, though, that the president of ukraine wasn't willing to have

the rewrite of history, that the president and vice president tried to put forward. where do we go from here? i don't know, i do hope that those senators and i've been out across virginia today, but i know a number of bipartisan senators met with president zelensky this morning in washington. i would be anxious to hear what my republican senators who were at that meeting thought of that exchange, because they we've met with macron this week. i know others met with with zelensky. what is in those closed door rooms is a great deal of support for ukraine. and recognizing that putin can't come out of this successful because he will never be satisfied until he completely reconstitute the old soviet union. that was unanimously bipartisan in the earlier meetings. what will my republican friends will say after this? that's what i'm

going to try to find out as i talk to my friends. but i also think what they say in their public statements will be really critical over the next 24 to 48 hours. >> senator mark warner, thank you so much for calling in. we do appreciate your time, sir. and we reported earlier that one republican member of congress, don bacon, was critical of what happened in the oval office. now we have a second. new york congressman michael lawler says that today's meeting in the oval office was a missed opportunity for both the united states and ukraine. he added, sadly, the only winner of today is vladimir putin. let's bring in nbc, julie sirkin, who is on capitol hill. what more can you tell us about what you've been hearing on the hill? >> well. >> let's start where mark warner left off, which is that meeting this morning that a bipartisan group of senators held with president zelensky before that oval office address, that, as you've been covering, has just been disastrous. and certainly one of those folks in that meeting has been senator lindsey graham. he met with him this morning. senator klobuchar posted a photo of other senators

and zelenskyy, all of them smiling, graham included. graham shared his thoughts a couple of moments ago at the white house, including what he told zelensky to do. >> in this very carefully. >> choreographed deal that graham has been pushing president trump to make. i spoke to graham just. yesterday when he said he's really hoping this is something that trump can do. even the notion of a nobel peace prize has been floated, perhaps too prematurely in the capital. so this is certainly something that republicans really wanted to happen. take a listen to what graham had to say, and we'll talk about it some more on the other side. >> i talked to zelensky. >> this morning. don't take the bait. president trump was in a very good mood last night. somebody asked. >> me. >> am i embarrassed about trump? i have never been more proud of the president. i was very proud of. >> j.d. vance. >> standing up for our country. we want to be helpful. what i saw in the oval office was disrespectful, and i don't know if we can ever do business with zelensky again. i don't.

>> and it's just. >> stunning. >> chris, because graham was saying today that. zelensky might not be redeemable in this conversation. i've talked to him so many times, not only this week, but over the course. >> of the last. >> three years. other republican senators who are allies of ukraine had mentioned, for example, that they didn't want this to be a moment like president biden had with afghanistan and the withdrawal from that country. this is the kind of line that they've been using and getting inside president trump's ear over the past few years, even before he was elected in november. and certainly when it comes to this rare earth deal, this is something that perhaps no other republican on capitol hill wanted as much as lindsey graham to hear him say. now that zelenskyy might not be redeemable after this moment is stunning for so many reasons, particularly because when folks were calling for elections in ukraine, he is somebody who said it is not possible to have that during wartime, and he didn't encourage it either. >> julie sirkin, thank you so much for that. i want to go back to marc polymeropoulos, and i wonder what you make and what the implications are when you have a lindsey graham who has,

you know, julie just pointed out, has been a supporter, say that this relationship might not be redeemable. >> well, i'm speechless again, because senator graham has been such a strong proponent of ukraine. and i think those who are irredeemable are the republican party officials, whether they're in the senate and the house or serving in the administration who know better. that was shocking, what senator graham said, because that oval office disaster was not on president zelensky in any way. that was the president of united states and the vice president bullying an american ally. i think that my you know, my phone has blown up. i have a message from the head of a german think tank, and the note was shock and disgust. the us is no longer an ally. this was a shameful day in us foreign policy, but this was because the president and the vice president mistreated an ally whose country has been raped and murdered and pillaged by russia, who was until

recently remember a bitter enemy of the united states that the republican party can't seem to kind of grasp. what happened today, i think, is just a reflection, of course, of the power that donald trump has over these officials. i can't imagine how senator rubio and even mike waltz would think that today was a success. but i guess they're all going to fall in line. and it's almost as if, you know, we're living in a in a mafia state where the don gives the instructions, everybody falls in line. and i only can think back to just the notion of america as the bright, shining city on a hill, that we were a values based country that really, you know, meant something to the world. this was shameful today. and i think the world is going to, you know, react in horror. you don't beat up on your allies. and it's a message that the us is not to be trusted anymore. and it's really a, i think, a dark day in terms of, of the us role in the world. >> marc polymeropoulos, thank you. joining me now, susan glasser, staff writer at the new yorker who spent four years as the moscow bureau chief for the

washington post. so it's particularly good to see you, susan. let's remind people what today was supposed to be. there were supposed to be conversations about a peace deal to end the war in ukraine. there was supposed to be in the president. president trump said this at the beginning of the oval office spray, that they were going to sign this rare earth mineral agreement with ukraine. and then we all saw what happened. from your perspective, as someone who has reported deeply on both sides. what did you see today? >> yeah, i mean. >> look. >> this was. >> i think, a very. >> public affirmation. >> of what we've. >> seen unfolding. >> over the. >> last couple of weeks, which is. >> that donald trump. has changed. >> sides in the war. >> between russia. >> and ukraine, and he has pivoted. >> american foreign. >> policy to. >> be an. >> amplifier of russian lies and talking points. >> about ukraine. and. >> you. >> know, that. >> came to a.

>> head in this. >> you know, very. >> painful to. >> watch oval. >> office confrontation. >> at times you. >> had both jd. >> vance and. >> donald trump. >> double teaming. >> vladimir zelensky. >> and, you know, i. >> think it goes. to trump's approach, which. >> again began a. >> couple of weeks ago. >> by demanding. >> that ukraine. >> our ally. >> and partner. >> essentially take. >> a deal to give. >> the. >> united states $500 billion. >> of its natural resources. >> in exchange. >> not for future security guarantees, but for past assistance, provided. >> it was a sort. >> of. >> you know, stick. >> a gun at someone's head, your money. >> or your life. >> kind of a deal. >> after a couple of. weeks of. >> posturing. >> there was negotiations. >> it was. >> said they. >> had. come to terms the us had given some was. >> no longer demanding $500 million. >> but, you. >> know, nonetheless. >> the tone was set by donald trump essentially blackmailing president. >> zelensky. >> which, remember, was the beginning of their relationship

as well. >> back in 2019. >> when zelensky first came to power. and what was the first thing the united states did as a partner with him? donald trump sought to blackmail zelensky back then, too, and he hel hundreds of millions of dollars in u.s. military assistance. and in order to get zelensky. >> to agree to. >> investigate trump's domestic political enemies. >> and i think. >> this is the pattern here. >> blackmail ukraine. >> take russia's side. it's just very painful that it played out in this dramatic oval office confrontation. >> do you think that and the indication is from the twitter account of the white house, that they like what they got out of this? they think that the president looks tough here. do you think that that combined with the president perhaps really wanting this us, ukraine rare earth minerals deal that even though they said he's not welcome back today that we could see a zelensky back at the white house tomorrow or the day after.

do you think that this is done? it seems to me that this was a confrontation. that certainly j.d. vance. >> seemed to want to. provoke and. >> stoke and amplify. >> in the aftermath of it. >> you see. >> trump allies like lindsey graham turning wholesale on ukraine and saying that, in fact, zelensky should resign. that's what senator. graham said. you know, i. think those of us who watched it with our own non trumpified eyes didn't see vladimir zelensky being disrespectful to donald trump. they saw a man who was based in the reality of his country having been invaded by russia, and. tens of thousands of his citizens. murdered. to speak up for basic ground. truth against, you know, the sort of. fugue of lies and disinformation and kremlin talking points that trump and vance were offering. so, you know, i wouldn't

speculate about it going forward, chris, but i think that what we're seeing is what we finally people have to recognize. donald trump is not a supporter of ukraine. he is. >> on the other. >> side of this war. the question i have is what. >> if anything. >> are his allies. >> in the. >> republican party going to do about it, who have been blustering. >> and claiming. >> that they're supporters of ukraine for the last few years? well. now they may have to choose between their alleged principles and their fealty to donald trump. >> and remembering that marco rubio was reported to be one of the people who told ukrainian officials that president zelensky was no longer welcome in the white house. susan glasser, thank you so much for coming on the program. that is going to do it for us this hour. our breaking news coverage continues with katy tur reports next. >> so i can take the steak home. yep. as many butterfly shrimp as i want. you got it, kate. >> you can take home everything. >> those tongs, ice cream

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