tv Dateline MSNBC March 1, 2025 2:00am-3:00am PST
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inspiring a program called ignite you first. it's dedicated to breaking intergenerational cycles of trauma. katie spielbauer: i never had a male role model in my life. so i was never taught what kind of man i should be looking for. i was never taught what kind of humans and people and friends i needed in my life-- josh mankiewicz (voiceover): katie's hope is that by being part of that program, she can help teens and adults make better choices. katie spielbauer: when something like this happens, it gives you purpose. and life has no meaning without purpose. hello, i'm craig melvin, and this is "dateline." josh mankiewicz: he was the new kid in town-- super popular, all about adventure. friend: this kid was, like, awesome. anna: he just jumped right into the culture.
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friend: kind of liked to show off a little bit to the girls. josh mankiewicz: they were the neighbors just down the block-- of family in fear. guy baker: they had had their vehicles broke into. she was scared. josh mankiewicz: someone had been sneaking into their home, and now, someone was in their garage. i'm sitting there, panicking. like, he's coming at me. josh mankiewicz: in a flash, it was over. [radio] someone just got shot. josh mankiewicz: that charismatic kid dead on the floor. kate: that's diren. oh, i think i screamed for hours. josh mankiewicz: what had happened in that garage that night? it was just the last person that would come to my mind. josh mankiewicz: a neighbor protecting his home or preparing a trap? makes the statement, it's showtime. it's showtime? exactly. josh mankiewicz: a teenager. a father. a murder. no one would be the same. we are all, like, taken aback. [theme music playing]
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welcome to "dateline." he came to america as an adventurous exchange student, but diren dede took one risk too many, and it cost him his life. was his death a case of a homeowner protecting his family and property or something far more deliberate? here's josh mankiewicz with "deadly exchange." josh mankiewicz: it's a dilemma that confronts every teenager-- how to simultaneously fit in with your friends and rebel against everyone else. that two-step is made it a little easier by the knowledge-- maybe the certainty-- that you're going to live forever. kids do dumb stuff all the time. josh mankiewicz: and so sneaking out of the house in the dead of night to meet other teenagers to drink, party, or just hang out-- well, that's nothing new. usually, teens sneak back home safely. this wasn't one of those times. i thought it was some kind of, like, joke.
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and i just couldn't believe it, really. i was just freaking out, and i was like, it can't be. it can't be. josh mankiewicz: it was april, 2014, when two bright foreign exchange students living in montana slipped out of their home. caller: (on phone) well, he's laying face down. he's barely breathing. josh mankiewicz: just minutes later, their amazing american adventure came to a sudden and tragic end. 911 dispatcher (on phone): and where is he bleeding from? caller: (on phone) um, everywhere. it was horrific. no one ever knew that someone would die over it. it was just the worst thing that could have ever happened to us. [music playing] josh mankiewicz: it all began so differently for diren dede, a dream come true. he was an exchange student from hamburg, germany, excited to soak up anything and everything american. at 17, diren had landed in a special corner of the west, missoula, montana. he was definitely charismatic. josh mankiewicz: dana, anna, and chance
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were three of diren's closest friends at big sky high school. anna: he was way different than all of the other foreign exchange students that usually come. he was really outspoken and outgoing, and he just jumped right in to the culture. he wanted to do everything there was to do in missoula, and-- and he was a terrific athlete? [all] mmhmm. josh mankiewicz: it was no coincidence that jay bostrom, the teacher who recruited diren to big sky also happened to be the school's soccer coach. jay bostrom: no holds barred, just go get it done. and when diren played, that's how he played. i think the guys were immediately like, this guy is cool-- kind of a bad ass, you know? he's was like pretty stocky kid. liked to lay like people out. yeah. yeah, he was tough. - yeah. - for sure. he threw down. [laughs] josh mankiewicz: and according to his friends, diren's soccer skills and his good looks definitely helped him with the opposite sex. friend: he was always talking to girls here in america
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and then girls back in germany. josh mankiewicz: a man of the world. - exactly - yep. yes. the other soccer girls always said that he would never miss a chance to take his shirt off when he was running around the field because they knew that he was going to put on a show for them. josh mankiewicz: diren lived with his host parents, randy and kate, in the prospect neighborhood, a hilly subdivision of missoula. randy: he was just such a terrific kid. you could see that right off the bat. and he called you mom and dad? kate: he did. he really became our son. there was no doubt about it. josh mankiewicz: but diren was more than just a fun kid. he was engaged in the world. this was not your typical american teenager-- kate: no. josh mankiewicz: --who kind of wants to talk about, you know, stars and maybe the latest fashion and-- no. not at all. no. it's like, so what do you think about the situation in ukraine? you know? [laughs] josh mankiewicz: by the end of the school year in 2014, diren had a solid circle of friends.
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he was tightest with another exchange student-- this one, from ecuador. robby pazmino. we had so many things in common-- the same personality with the same wishes and dreams. friend: they were a package deal. josh mankiewicz: you see one, you're going to see the other? - oh yeah. - mmhmm. josh mankiewicz: saturday, april 26, 2014 was no different. the boys spent the evening playing video games and listening to music in randy and kate's basement. randy: i went down 10:30 or so that night and told him, maybe crank the music volume down a little bit. josh mankiewicz: but around midnight, diren was bored, restless, and suggested he and robby take a walk. and i was kind of, i'm just really tired, diren. but come on. it's like, ok. josh mankiewicz: so while kate and randy slept upstairs, robby and diren slipped out the back door for a walk around the neighborhood. they headed up the nearby hill and then turned on to deer canyon road.
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then robby says diren suddenly walked off in a different direction, and robby lost sight of him. robby: it was like, he wasn't coming. i continued walking. josh mankiewicz: robby says he called out to diren, but there was no answer. so he kept walking, figuring diren would catch up. robby: that is when i heard someone yelling, you're there. i see you there. something like that. after that, just the shots, like, three or four shots, and i just start running. josh mankiewicz: gunshots in a quiet residential neighborhood. a now terrified robby ran back home. he was faster than i am. i said, he's probably coming. i was almost sure that he was coming. but diren wouldn't return, and what happened to the german exchange student would simultaneously make headlines around the world and get americans asking, how far can you go to protect
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your home and family? craig melvin: coming up-- 911 dispatcher (on phone): 911. what are you reporting? caller: (on phone): um, a robbery. josh mankiewicz: --an urgent call to 911. caller: (on phone): somebody entered into our garage. um, shots were fired. craig melvin: when "dateline" continues. ugh, weeding is the worst. but now, there's spruce: you'll see visible results in 1 hour and dead weeds in 1 day and it's safe for use around people and pets. spruce: the new, hard-working, worry-free weed and grass killer. ♪ it's spruce! ♪ how are folks 60 and older having fun these days? family cookouts! ♪♪ playing games! ♪♪ dancing in the par... (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound) (high pitched sound)
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josh mankiewicz: sunday morning was less than an hour old when the sound of gunshots ricocheted through the prospect neighborhood of missoula, montana. 911 dispatcher (on phone): 911. want are you reporting? caller: (on phone): um, a robbery. caller: (on phone): ok. and what's going on? caller: (on phone): um, somebody entered into our garage. um, shots were fired. [radio] come on, man. someone just got shot. josh mankiewicz: a robbery was rare in prospect, but a shooting was unheard of. dash cams captured the chaos as first responders raced to the scene. police (through radio): stay to the right. what's the numbers? hold on. stop. stop. josh mankiewicz: it was all happening just a few hundred feet from where foreign exchange student, diren dede, lived with his host family. randy: i kind of woke up with a start, heard four loud pops-- bang, bang, bang-- you know, fairly close together. and then a pause, and then another bang. josh mankiewicz: randy heard the sirens and got out of bed. randy: so i went downstairs just to make sure i could lay my hands on robby and diren.
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and he came downstairs with me and is like, where is diren? and he said he didn't know, and-- he didn't know? i thought that was kind of weird, and i looked in the rec room and didn't see diren, and i-- so i came back to him. i says, what's going on? where is diren? josh mankiewicz: robby fessed up. he and diren had sneaked out. he told randy how diren had walked off on his own. and then robby said he'd heard gunshots. alarmed, randy woke up his wife, and the three of them went to deer canyon road. how far away from your house is this? randy: 80 yards. something like that. directly above-- it's just the next street above ours. josh mankiewicz: so this is a neighbor's house? it's a neighbor's house. josh mankiewicz: but when they got there, police stopped them. kate: we were just hoping diren would just walk out somewhere-- you know, show up and come out the door. police (through radio): yeah. police (through radio): ok. police (through radio): and then he's not around the back though? he's just-- randy: i walked up to the police officer, gave his name
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and description, and that's when she kind of went, well, just wait here for a second. and then came back, and said, i think you guys need to go to the hospital and that it wasn't good. and soon as she said that, i thought, gosh, we just passed an ambulance running up there, and he must have been in the ambulance. josh mankiewicz: what happened on that quiet street? did diren and robby stumble into a burglary in progress or some violent home invasion? the police asked robby to answer some questions while kate and randy rushed to the hospital. kate: it wasn't long after we got there that the er doc came out and explained that his wounds were fatal and that he was no longer alive. terrible feeling. it was horrible. i went outside the hospital many times and just screamed. i-- and i--
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[choking up] it was-- we lost our son too. sorry. when they brought us in to identify his body, it was horrific looking at his beautiful body no longer complete. it was terrible. i think i screamed for hours. josh mankiewicz: diren dede would never make it to his 18th birthday. friend: i thought it was a joke. i was like, there's no way possible. nothing like this has remotely happened to me or like kind of anything in missoula growing up. and so it was just-- it was obviously a shock. it was just like the last person that would come to my mind, i guess. josh mankiewicz: diren's soccer coach assumed that whatever happened to his star player, it wasn't diren's fault. jay bostrom: i'm trying to imagine, did he go to a party and get shot by another kid?
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was he downtown missoula and got in a scuffle? i didn't understand it. josh mankiewicz: so what did happen? police on the scene quickly concluded only one person was shot-- the intruder mentioned in that 911 call. 911 dispatcher (on phone): who got shot? caller: (on phone): the robber. he's badly injured. 911 dispatcher: ok. so they entered your garage, and who shot him? caller: my husband. josh mankiewicz: and cops quickly learned something those who thought they knew diren well could scarcely imagine. diren wasn't a random, innocent victim. the young exchange student was the apparent opposite. he was the burglar. just like, someone's trying to break into your car right now. josh mankiewicz: police were about to hear a story from the man holding the gun that night-- a story of terror and a family under siege. markus: and we've been sketched out. we don't feel safe. i'm on edge about everything. two frightened homeowners victimized two times before.
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what had happened inside that garage? coming up-- markus: i'm sitting there, panicking, you know? and i was like, he's-- he's coming at me. craig melvin: when "dateline" continues. i'm getting vaccinated... ...with pfizer's pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine. so am i. because i'm at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. i'm getting prevnar 20 because pneumococcal pneumonia could put me in the hospital and my risk is 6 times greater because i'm over 50. the cdc just expanded its recommendation for those 50 or older to get vaccinated. you're also at risk if you're 19 or older with certain chronic conditions. prevnar 20 is proven to help protect against both pneumococcal pneumonia and invasive pneumococcal disease in just one dose. don't get prevnar 20 if you have a severe allergy to its ingredients. a weakened immune system may lower your response. common side effects include injection site pain and swelling... ...fatigue, headache, muscle and joint pain. millions have chosen prevnar vaccines, which have
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>> some people like. >> doing things. >> the hard. >> way. >> like doing. >> their. finances with a spreadsheet. instead of using quicken. >> quicken pulls all your financial info together in. >> one place. >> and updates it automatically. >> how easy. >> is that? >> as the trump administration forges ahead during these critical first 100 days, rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> more than ever. this is not a time to pretend this isn't happening. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government now can discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> we are all. >> watching and waiting. >> to see. >> who is going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends, saturday, and sunday mornings. >> at. >> at. >> josh mankiewicz: a high school exchange student from germany had been shot and killed during an apparent burglary inside a neighbor's garage in the quiet town of missoula, montana.
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now, diren dede was dead, and police were investigating. josh mankiewicz: does that happen a lot here, people shoot burglars who were in their homes? no, it doesn't. josh mankiewicz: missoula police department detective, guy baker, had the case. soon, he was interviewing the man who pulled the trigger. - hi, markus? - hello, sir. i'm guy baker. i'm a detective. josh mankiewicz: the homeowner was markus kaarma. kaarma and his common law wife, janelle pfleger, had just moved to missoula. they were looking for a quiet, safe, and kid-friendly place to raise their child. police spoke with janelle at the scene and recorded their talk with kaarma at the station. so we want to talk about is what happened tonight at your house. josh mankiewicz: the couple told investigators the story actually began with a burglary three weeks earlier. and then, just 10 days after that, the burglars returned. guy baker: somebody had trespassed in their vehicles
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and in their garage, which was unlocked. josh mankiewicz: cash, credit cards, and a cell phone were taken. the couple filed a police report, but the burglaries remained unsolved. now, markus kaarma said he feared they were being targeted. we've pretty much been living in fear, and it sucks. and to know that we're being watched and targeted, and knowing how hard it is for you guys to actually catch a burglar with no evidence-- josh mankiewicz: kaarma said they no longer felt safe in their own home and were terrified they'd be robbed again. we've been sketched out. we don't feel safe. i'm on edge about everything. josh mankiewicz: the couple even emailed their neighbors to warn them about the string of burglaries and to suggest everyone lock their cars and garages. to having somebody burglarize you is a terrible feeling. and it does leave people feeling violated and angry. yes. i would agree. so that's not uncommon-- no. josh mankiewicz: --for people to be upset and extremely vigilant
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after a burglary? i would agree. it's not. josh mankiewicz: the more time that passed with the burglars at large, the more fearful markus and janelle said they became, in part, because he was a seasonal firefighter and would have to travel for work soon, leaving mother and child alone for months. she was scared that markus was going to be going off on a seasonal employment here soon. josh mankiewicz: so kaarma told police his wife decided to put together a homemade security system that would warn them if another intruder showed up. she's got motion sensor one-- motion sensor two, and she's got-- guy baker: she had placed a baby monitor on the east wall of the garage. a video baby monitor? guy baker: once alert sounded due to the motion detector, then they could see what the baby monitor could see. josh mankiewicz: all of that was connected through a smartphone app, so when the motion sensors were triggered, an alert would allow them to view live video of their garage.
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that saturday night, kaarma said they were trying to relax after putting their son to bed. i had recorded the movie "lincoln." we were watching that. about a third of the way through that-- not sure what the time was. it was dark outside. but, you know, we went outside and had a smoke in the garage like we always do. we would usually leave the garage door open to air it out. josh mankiewicz: but five minutes later, an alert from the motion sensors. someone was in the driveway. an intruder-- perhaps the same one who targeted them before. these photos are from the home security system. that's diren entering the garage. markus kaarma says he grabbed a loaded shotgun he had for protection. i'm sitting there with the shotgun in my hand, and i'm staring at the lock on the front door. and i can't tell if it's locked or unlocked. and i'm starting to shake at that point. yeah? the adrenaline's coming. like, oh my god. these guys actually came back to the house.
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kaarma said his wife stayed back while he went out the front door and turned toward the garage. a few quick steps around my front-- you saw where my truck was parked. pretty much with my butt touching my grill guard-- that's where i stood. and then she flipped on the light. [music playing] josh mankiewicz: kaarma told the detectives he was blinded by the sudden light and realized the only way for the intruder to get away was to go past him. then-- i heard something move. like-- a piece of metal hit the cement. either that or a piece of metal hit a piece of metal. it sounded like either a metal wrench being picked up or maybe the axes. josh mankiewicz: so markus kaarma says he did the only thing he could to protect himself. immediately, i fired high up into the right corner of the garage. here i am, looking at my garage.
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i think i-- in total, four rounds were shot, all directly-- 1, 2, 3, 4. josh mankiewicz: if i live in montana, what right do i have to shoot someone who has entered my house? you have the right to use any force necessary in defense of yourself but no greater force. ok, but i mean this was a burglar who had broken in. you don't know who he is. you know it's somebody that you don't know. and they have crossed that invisible line from outdoors to indoors, and they are, by that definition alone, i would say, a threat to me. well, you got to be able to articulate the threat. josh mankiewicz: and kaarma told investigators there was a real threat. the garage was full of tools the intruder could grab and use against him. i imagined an axe flying through the air and hitting me in the skull-- josh mankiewicz: and kaarma said he was positive he heard that scraping sound just moments before he fired the shotgun. i'm describing the sound when i say it hit.
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[interposing voices] what i'm picturing in my head is, i'm going to die. josh mankiewicz: to hear markus kaarma tell it, he faced down a threat. it was kill or be killed, and that was justifiable homicide. the young soccer star, who was, by now, in the morgue, must have had a darker side that many didn't see. detectives decided to dig deeper into the lives of both diren dede and the man who shot him. what they learned would only deepen this mystery. [music playing] craig melvin: coming up-- josh mankiewicz: true or false-- diren was committing a crime. he was craig melvin: but was diren the only one breaking the law? she's like, showtime. guy baker: he said, janelle makes the statement, it's showtime. it's showtime? exactly. craig melving: there would be anger and astonishment on both sides when "dateline" continues. my kids can't hide anything from me. i'm home!
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>> i'm richard lui with a news update. european leaders rallying behind ukraine's president volodymyr zelensky after a contentious meeting in the oval office. france, germany and poland were among the countries praising zelensky for fighting for his country's independence and helping to keep europe safe. and an outbreak of measles in west texas is spreading into the central part of the state and neighboring new mexico. the texas department of health confirmed 146 cases of the highly infectious disease. 20 people have been hospitalized so far, and one child has died. so far, and one child has died. for now, back welcome back. i'm craig malvin. homeowner, markus kaarma, told police his story that he was living in a state of fear, but his answers raised more questions. what really happened in that garage? and what was diren dede doing there in the first place? to find out the truth, they needed to learn more about their german exchange student.
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here again is josh mankiewicz with "deadly exchange." josh mankiewicz: when he was killed in a neighbor's garage, exchange student, diren dede, was just two months away from returning to his family in germany. the man who shot him said he feared for his life, and from diren's best friend, robby, police learned the teen did enter the garage to steal. as robby described it, diren was not the first kid in missoula to go sneaking into unlocked garages. he said the kids weren't after money, credit cards, or valuables. this stunt happened often enough that it had a name-- garage hopping. and the target was usually beer. guy baker: the reason for garage hopping or garage shopping-- i've heard it called both-- was for kids to go in and look for alcoholic beverages that they could easily get and take. josh mankiewicz: until this shooting. that sort of wasn't on anybody's radar in law enforcement? no, i had not heard garage hopping. no.
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josh mankiewicz: these three friends of diren's say they've never gone garage hopping but they know all about it. you all know people who do it-- - yeah. - --or have done it-- - yeah. --right? they understand it's illegal? - mmhmm. - yep. josh mankiewicz: but it seemed harmless? yeah. exactly. i mean, it's just-- they're like, hey dude, this is a way for you to get some extra beer-- you know, when you're on a saturday night. i mean, did you think to yourself, you know, oh my god, we didn't tell him how dangerous that could be? but no one knew. no one-- josh mankiewicz: no one thought it was-- --would ever, ever be like, oh, hey, don't walk into that garage. you never know if someone's going to shoot you. josh mankiewicz: robby told police diren had done it before but never taken cash or valuable property. he wasn't a criminal. he was like a kid. he was a kid trying to have fun and feeding the group doing what the other guys do-- trying to be part of them. josh mankiewicz: was it really that innocent? true or false-- diren was committing a crime. he was. entering somebody else's home-- even their garage--
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that's a crime? - yes josh mankiewicz: even if the door's open? yep. josh mankiewicz: and if kaarma's life was threatened, he had the right to shoot, didn't he? but as police went over kaarma's story about what happened just before the confrontation, something stood out when kaarma was describing how his wife first noticed someone was approaching their garage. she's like, showtime. she's like, i see something-- a flashlight. guy baker: he said janelle makes the statement, it's showtime. it's showtime? exactly. suggesting what, that they had been getting ready for this all night? that seemed like a very interesting statement to me-- it's showtime. josh mankiewicz: it didn't seem to fit with someone claiming to be terrified in his own home. then kaarma told police he took his time going out to confront the intruder. i stood up off the couch and just kind of slowly walked over towards the front door, and then she's like, hold on. hold on.
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all of which might make you wonder, with all that time to think, why not just stay inside, lock the doors, and call police? guy baker: i think the easiest thing that could have been done is once they were aware someone was outside, being alerted by the tones in their phone, they call 911-- josh mankiewicz: and while kaarma said he feared for his life, police found no weapon-- no axe or tool near diren's body. the teenager was unarmed. and another red flag-- kaarma said he couldn't see into the garage. but cops talked to the doctors who treated diren, and they examined the shotgun pellet patterns on the garage wall. guy baker: he says he can't see anything, yet he's able to track a moving person in the garage, and he hits him 2 out of 4 times. 1, 2, 3, 4-- i didn't believe that he's just randomly shooting from right to left. josh mankiewicz: and so you're thinking to yourself, this does not look like a justifiable shooting.
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guy baker: no. at this point, it's looking like we have a deliberate homicide. josh mankiewicz: the county attorney's office agreed. detective baker delivered the news. so we just talked to a prosecutor. she wants you to be taken into custody. so that's what's going to happen. for what? for homicide. what? josh mankiewicz: seemingly stunned, kaarma borrowed the detective's phone to call janelle. hey. janelle (on phone): hi. being charged with murder. janelle (on phone): you're joking. no. how is that deliberate homicide? it's just the way the statute reads. josh mankiewicz: he was pretty surprised. guy baker: yeah, he was surprised, and he was very emotional at that point. that's the most i saw markus be emotional during this whole investigation. josh mankiewicz: diren's host parents had a tangle of emotions as they processed what police said had happened. not the kid we knew. wouldn't expect that.
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no. josh mankiewicz: they were disappointed with diren's actions but livid with kaarma's. i just got more angry and more angry that that happened. and i mean, who thinks like that? just that-- why? it was the "why" at that point. you know, why would someone feel compelled to do this? [music playing] reporter: markus kaarma faces a deliberate homicide charge for killing a 17-year-old german exchange student-- josh mankiewicz: many were outraged that a homeowner could be arrested for defending his family and property. kathryn haake is a crime reporter at the "local missoulian". kathryn haake: some people were like, well, of course i could shoot somebody in my home. and that was definitely in the very beginning of the case. i received a lot of angry phone calls from people. a lot of people were afraid that this would intrude on their own rights to protect their home with a gun and their own gun rights. josh mankiewicz: the german press also followed the story closely. their take echoed the thoughts of many in this country,
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that diren was the victim of an american cowboy culture that glorifies gun violence. and they were really incredulous that somebody could just shoot somebody for coming into their house. they just didn't understand how that worked in montana josh mankiewicz: but this is america, not germany. aren't you allowed to protect yourself, your home, your family? was even that on trial now? dogma and kaarma were about to collide. craig melvin: comming up-- battle lines are drawn, and a revealing recording. janelle (on phone): then i heard the kid yelling, no, no, no, no, please. craig melvin: did diren plead for his life? when "dateline" continues. to 50 years with my best friend. [sfx: gasp] [sfx: spilling sound] nooo... aya... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty absorbs spills like a sponge.
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administration's department of justice. >> the administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. josh mankiewicz: eight months after diren dede's death, markus kaarma went on trial for his murder. seeking justice for their son, diren's parents traveled from germany to a montana courtroom, where they were befriended by the same group of kids who had loved their boy. a lot of us got the chance to meet his parents when they came for it. and they were really, really awesome. they were a lot like diren. josh mankiewicz: his parents watched as the man who shot their son faced the charge of deliberate homicide. paul ryan: --and what think is important is-- josh mankiewicz: to kaarma's defense team, led by attorney paul ryan, that was outright excessive. it was a man who was fearful-- josh mankiewicz: ryan laid out a basic narrative.
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markus kaarma, twice a victim of burglars, reasonably thought diren dede was another one and dangerous. paul ryan: he thought that he was dealing with drug-seeking type individuals that were erratic. and who knows what they're-- how they were going to respond. josh mankiewicz: he told the jury his client had reason to believe diren dede was armed and ready to attack. and because he felt his life was threatened by the movement specifically of mr. dede, he had to take the steps, unfortunately, to take his life. the danger of a burglar is when there's a confrontation and they all want to escape and they'll do whatever they can to get away. josh mankiewicz: the defense said there was no debate over central fact-- diren dede went into that garage to steal. and on the stand, kaarma's lawyer got diren's friend, robby, to admit that despite warnings, diren didn't see much wrong with garage hopping.
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i think diren never felt like it was a crime. paul ryan: but you were warning him. you were telling him it wasn't right. it was reckless. it was dangerous. right? - yeah. yeah. like, i understand on his way, but he maybe didn't understand. josh mankiewicz: in fact, the defense suggested that diren was part of a local burglary ring that was stealing more than just beer and may have been behind the previous break-ins at the kaarma house. paul ryan: they all knew each other. they all went to big sky. josh mankiewicz: defense attorney ryan argued that police never really investigated those burglaries at kaarma's house, and with no arrests, his client was left in a fearful, agitated state. a psychiatrist who examined kaarma diagnosed it as high magnitude stress. paul ryan: your body changes dramatically as far as how you're reacting to thingss-- fight or flight. and while some people may have retreated or called the police or whatever, he came forward and confronted the individual.
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he can't control it. his body went into fight mode. josh mankiewicz: the defense said kaarma felt threatened in his home and was within his legal rights to shoot under something called the castle doctrine. paul ryan: the legislature has made decisions that it should be easier to protect yourself when you're within your house. you may or may not like the castle doctrine. i never asked you to like the law, and the judge doesn't either, but he says you have to follow the law. josh mankiewicz: defense attorney ryan insisted that markus kaarma was guilty of nothing more than protecting his family. this is your house. you defend it within in your house as you choose to defend it. josh mankiewicz: by the time the defense rested, those closest to diren dede thought that markus kaarma's lawyers had redefined what this case was about. who diren was kind of got lost in all this, didn't it? mmhmm a lot of the stuff that i heard and read made him sound like some sort of just like foreigner who came here to stir the pot and make trouble, and actually--
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- and commit crimes. - right. yeah. josh mankiewicz: but to prosecutors andrew paul and jennifer clark, the real criminal in this case was markus kaarma, who was, plain and simple, a murderer. the fact is that the defendant was angry and vengeful. he knew that it was a kid coming in his garage. he has his 12 gague in his hand, and he waits. josh mankiewicz: to counter the defense's suggestion that diren was part of some ring of thieves targeting markus kaarma, investigators tracked down the teens who had hit kaarma's garage, the ones who took the cash, credit cards, and-- he had a bong and a jar of weed and some alcohol. jennifer clark: did you know a man named diren dede? not personally, no. jennifer clark: to the best of your knowledge, was he involved in a burglary ring? no. josh mankiewicz: so did kaarma really fear for his life that night?
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prosecutors said ballistics told the story. the first shot to hit diren was to the back of his left arm, meaning he couldn't have been charging toward markus kaarma. andrew paul: and then he's got to do it one more time. he's got to make that final blow. josh mankiewicz: and the final shot was straight to the head. but prosecutors weren't done. they had what they thought was explosive evidence. just before the trial began, a recording surfaced, made the night of the shooting, of a conversation an officer at the scene had with janelle. in it, she reveals that just before the final shot, she heard diren beg for his life. janelle (recording): and then i heard the kid yelling no, no, no, no, please. and then-- but by then, there was already a shot fired. josh mankiewicz: and the prosecution said that after the shooting, kaarma sounded like a man who was proud of himself. janelle (on phone): there's an article online already
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and the comments are all in your favor. marcus (on phone): really? josh mankiewicz: this is a jailhouse phone call between kaarma and his wife, talking about the news coverage. janelle (on phone): why is he being charged? this is [muted]. why is he even arrested? umm-- marcus (on phone): hey, tomorrow morning, will you buy 100 copies or something of the paper? janelle (on phone): what did you say, hun? marcus (on phone): dvr-- record the local news tonight on tv and keep the newspapers from tomorrow. and he seemed to be very proud of that fact versus remorseful. josh mankiewicz: but was this premeditated murder? the only other witness to the shooting was about to tell her story. craig melvin: coming up-- a purse left as bait? the purse was for them to take. craig melvin: and one more revelation-- he said he'd been sitting up for three nights with a shotgun. craig melvin: a hairstylist is about to provide the most hair-raising testimony of all when "dateline" continues.
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welcome back to "dateline." markus kaarma's defense had tried to paint a picture of a man exercising his rights when he shot an unarmed teenager. now, it was the prosecution's turn to convince the jury that he was a man bent on revenge, and they had witnesses who they thought could show kaarma's actions in a whole new light. here's josh mankiewicz with the conclusion of "deadly exchange."
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josh mankiewicz: markus kaarma was on trial for killing an unarmed teenager in his garage. the prosecution was about to argue that not only was the shooting unjustified, it was planned, premeditated murder. to prove it, they put the defendant's wife, janelle pfleger on the stand as a reluctant key witness. janelle told the jury the same thing she and the defendant had said all along, they were living in fear of intruders. literally, every day, i was like a paranoid person. i was looking over my shoulder all the time and very worried all the time. josh mankiewicz: so then why did they leave their garage door wide open on the day of the shooting, especially after they'd warned their neighbors to keep their garages locked? janelle said they smoked cigarettes in the garage and wanted to air it out. i believed that it would be my right to have my garage door open to air out for a few minutes at a time, especially when i'm there.
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josh mankiewicz: the prosecution argued that janelle and her husband left the garage door open on purpose because they were setting a trap. janelle denied it but admitted she deliberately left her purse in the garage with items in it that could be traced back to her. the prosecution said that was bait. jennifer clark: you wanted to catch them. that's why you had the purse. the purse was for them to take so they didn't come into the house and so that when i call the police and i say, here is something traceable. josh mankiewicz: so an open door and a purse in plain sight-- the prosecutor said janelle and her husband set the stage, then waited and watched so when diren walked in, they weren't scared, they were excited. she's like, showtime. josh mankiewicz: on the stand, janelle denied saying those words. jennifer clark: do you remember saying "showtime" when you saw somebody outside? no, i don't remember saying that.
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it's not usually a common phrase that i use. josh mankiewicz: in court, janelle also changed her story about what she heard in the garage that night, now denying that diren had been pleading for his life. janelle (on recording): and then i heard the kid yelling, no, no, no, no, please. jennifer clark: my question was, your testimony here today was that you never heard him say a word? right. i sort of get the feeling janelle didn't do you any favors on the witness stand. no, she didn't. she, you know, denied saying something that could be played on tape. right. yeah. janelle talks a lot, and, you know, as a defense attorney, that often doesn't work out very well. josh mankiewicz: janelle was never charged in the case. why wasn't janelle charged in this? in her statements to officers, she wanted to catch the burglars. she wanted to identify them. josh mankiewicz: prosecutors say they had no evidence that janelle knew her husband was going to harm someone. so what exactly was markus kaarma thinking?
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prosecutors brought in two witnesses to support the argument that the shooting was nothing short of a planned execution. witness: he said he'd been sitting up for three nights with a shotgun, waiting to kill some [muted] kids. josh mankiewicz: she works in the salon where markus kaarma got his haircut just days before the shooting. the woman said kaarma came in ranting about his recent burglaries and his chilling plan to fix them. i did say to him, oh my gosh. you know, have you called the police? he says, well, the [muted] police will not do anything about it. and then he had mentioned that he wouldn't mind if a couple did come by because he wouldn't mind shooting a couple of them also. josh mankiewicz: her coworker told the jury she heard it too. he was going to kill them-- take care of it. andrew paul: did he use those words, "take care of it?" i think it was "fix it." andrew paul: ok. do you recall him saying anything else? he said, i'm not kidding. you will seriously see this on the news.
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andrew paul: ok. say that-- you're-- i'm not kidding. andrew paul: i can tell you're nervous. i'm not kidding. you're seriously going to see this on the news. it's intent to kill, right. he's announcing it. josh mankiewicz: he's laying in wait. and he's telling him, you wait and see. you're going to see this on the news. josh mankiewicz: that's a defense attorney's nightmare-- yeah. --is testimony that your client told somebody else, i'm going to commit this crime, and then they're later charged with that crime. correct. josh mankiewicz: as the trial came to an end, diren's friends gathered to support his visiting parents. anna: there was a huge group of kids who went to the closing statements. so we went to support them on those last days. we filled up the stands with-- or the seats with i don't know how many kids. a tree in front of our house became, essentially, the memorial for diren. and more and more things showed up that-- so we felt more and more loved by missoula than we probably ever have just because they were trying to show support for us. josh mankiewicz: but jurors had to consider the law, and nothing else.
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here's how the prosecution laid it out. the issue in this case-- what the defendant believed at the time he shot and killed diren dede. was that belief reasonable? and was the deadly force used necessary? that's your issue. josh mankiewicz: jurors went to deliberate, and after eight hours over two days, they returned to court. jurror: we the jury, all of our number, find the defendant, markus hendrick kaarma, guilty. [crowd cheers] josh mankiewicz: the courtroom erupted in applause and in tears. and while they say the verdict was a relief, diren's host parents still feel the raw pain of his death. kate: nothing brings diren back, and so it still-- it's just heartbreaking that someone felt compelled to do this. josh mankiewicz: would you be host to another foreign exchange student? no, my heart's too broken.
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couldn't do it. josh mankiewicz: two months after the verdict, markus kaarma addressed diren dedes's family at the sentencing hearing. i took another man's life, and i'm sorry i can't change that. i did what i felt was necessary to protect my family and myself. and i hope that no one ever finds himself in the situation that i was placed in. josh mankiewicz: the judge sentenced him to 70 years in prison. anna: i almost wish he never said sorry because it was so empty, and his face had just no expression. it was like scary almost. like, we are all taken aback. and i was like, take it back. there was no meaning in that. josh mankiewicz: and they say garage hopping is no longer popular. have attitudes changed about all of that since then? of course. yeah, i haven't heard a thing about it since. it's unheard of. now it is? yeah. josh mankiewicz: diren's friends are hoping people will forget the one deadly mistake diren made
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and remember instead the bright, charming guy they loved. you know, you're all pretty young have to go through this. do you feel like this has changed you? yeah. 100%, yeah. every day you wake up, you think, obviously, something like that could happen, and you need to do things that matter. life seems more precious now? mmhmm. he's encouraging us to do a lot of things. and think he's still pushing us. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for whatching. [music playing] >> good morning, and welcome to this saturday edition of morning joe. weekend. it was. >> a. >> really busy week in politics, so let's get right to some of the conversations you might have
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