the banned book club. samira ahmed is. >> the author. >> of today's velshi banned book club feature internment. that doesn't mean. thanks for watching. catch me back here tomorrow morning from 10 a.m. to noon eastern. don't forget she's available as a podcast. follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. plus, you can always find velshi content on youtube. head to msnbc.com, or you can scan the qr code on your screen. you can follow me on blue sky. that's where that will get you if you scan the qr code or go to blue sky dot social. again, all you have to do is scan that code and it'll take you right to my page. stay right where you are. the katie phang show starts right now. >> this is. >> the katie phang. >> show live from. >> telemundo studios in miami, florida. the death. >> of. >> diplomacy. >> the explosive. >> meeting between. trump and zelensky that ended. >> in american humiliation. >> on the. >> global stage. >> as donald trump seems to pledge allegiance to russia. >> over the war in ukraine.

plus. >> battle for the budget. the fight shaping up on capitol hill as republicans narrowly pass a budget resolution. calling for 4.5. >> trillion. >> in tax cuts for the wealthy and how democrats plan to avoid cuts to your social safety net that the republicans are planning to use. >> to. >> pay for it all, then. quid pro quo. inside the push from over a dozen retired district court judges. who oppose dismissing the indictment against embattled new york city mayor eric adams. while adams continues to hemorrhage support with the key black. >> leaders. >> he'll need to save his political future. and later, the sky is no longer the limit. astronaut and activist amanda winn on how she's prepping to fly to space with five other women in her new memoir celebrating the resilience of sexual assault survivors who will still shoot for the stars. all of that and more is coming up.

with allies like these. >> mr. president, with respect, i think it's disrespectful for you to come into the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the american media. you should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict. >> to ukraine, that you say what problems we have. >> i have been to. >> become one. >> i have. >> not in a good position. you don't have the cards right now with us. you start having cards. cards? right now you don't. >> are you playing cards? you're playing cards. >> you're gambling with the lives of millions of people. you're gambling with world war three. >> who needs enemies? that oval. office debacle was meant to be a small photo op. during a larger visit, where. ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky and convicted felon donald trump were to sign a deal over ukraine's rare minerals and to secure support for ukraine. instead, trump and vice

president j.d. vance tag teamed in a concerted effort to publicly scold and bully zelensky in front of the cameras. meanwhile, secretary of state marco rubio, america's international mouthpiece, glumly sat in the corner of the couch sulking like a child placed in time out. rubio saving his bravery for later in the day when he went on cnn to say this. we just heard from from president zelensky. >> he said. >> he. >> does not think that. >> he owes. >> president trump an apology. >> for what happened. >> inside the. >> oval office today. >> do you feel otherwise? >> i do. i do apologize for turning this thing into the fiasco for him that it became. there was no need for him to go in there and become antagonistic. >> let's be clear. trump, while cloaked in the authority of the office of the president, is doubling down on what appears to be his pledge of allegiance to the flag of russia. he graduated

from simply parroting russian propaganda that zelensky is a dictator, to publicly berating him. when zelensky correctly pointed out that russia invaded his country, starting the war. the new york times reporting, quote, russian state media are savoring what they describe as a public dressing down for president volodymyr zelensky, a tv host said on his evening show that the oval office meeting looks more like a public flagellation for zelensky, and something that no one expected from the us. president zelensky is in london today. he's set to meet with european leaders tomorrow at an emergency summit to discuss russia and a peace plan for ukraine, as european union foreign minister kaja kallas has said today, it became clear that the free world needs a new leader. it's up to us europeans to take this challenge. joining me now is ambassador michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to

russia. ambassador, i thank you for joining us. my first question to you is this trump isn't mediating this war between russia and ukraine. instead, trump is putting his whole self, not his finger, onto the scale to tip it in favor of vladimir putin. >> tragically, that's exactly right. there's no other way to explain. his behavior leading up to this tragic meeting yesterday. if you look at their negotiating strategy, all they've done is given concessions to vladimir putin. they told the ukrainians they need to give up land. they told the ukrainians, you can't join nato. they told the ukrainians, you have to pay us back for the aid we gave before. they are offering no new military or economic assistance. they're asking putin to join the g7. i could go on. it's a long, long list. they voted with russia at the united nations and other autocratic regimes, and an extraordinary change of position

for the united states of america. and so you're exactly right. there's no way to explain it. he says he's trying to negotiate, mediate an end to the war between ukraine and russia. but the evidence so far suggests that all he wants to do is have a new relationship with putin. and whether there's peace in ukraine or not is a very secondary matter for the president so far. >> and notably, ambassador, we saw stuff like former russian president dmitri medvedev post on x, calling zelensky a, quote, insolent pig. and then you also have the russians all over media saying gloating over how zelenskyy was treated. ambassador, the only real practical kind of consequence of this treatment by trump of zelensky is to embolden putin and russia and to have them believe that once a superpower in america will not step in to help a democratically elected ally like zelensky. >> that is exactly right. and

that is the fundamental thing that, tragically, president trump does not understand about putin. he somehow thinks by showing fealty and giving him gifts and talking about what a great leader he is, that he's going to have a relationship with him that will be good for the united states. it's exactly the opposite. i've dealt with putin. i negotiated with those guys before, and they're tough negotiators. and if you give them an inch, all they do is take and ask for more. and that's why this is not just about ukraine. this is about america's national security interests around the world. when we look weak, when we cave to a dictator like putin, not only do we embolden him to be more aggressive in europe, including perhaps against our nato allies, but it emboldens other dictators around the world who might think, okay, the americans are no longer in the game. we can take what we want and they'll do nothing. so i hope the president

will understand this issue. and if he doesn't, i hope the american people understand this issue, because just because trump wants to be on the side of the dictators doesn't mean that the rest of us need to follow him in that direction. >> and, you know, i want to say the word diplomacy has been used a lot since yesterday, something you know intimately. well, trump's version of diplomacy includes excluding the affected countries, like sitting down with russia and saudi arabia last month and not inviting ukraine or europe to the table for negotiations. i want to remind everybody tuning in as well. trump did the same exact thing in february of 2020, when he signed an agreement with the taliban, and he excluded the afghan government, and that taliban deal gave everything to the taliban in no way held them accountable when they predictably reneged time after time on that deal. how poorly does this bode, then, for trump's version of diplomacy? now, for somebody like zelensky trying to save his people in

ukraine? >> well, thank you for bringing up afghanistan, because that is exactly the analogy that's here, right? we didn't even tell the president, the democratically elected president of afghanistan, ashraf ghani, until the deal was already signed. it feels exactly like that. and it led to his downfall, as we know. and this feels exactly the same playbook. and i just hope that enough senators, republican senators might remember what they said just a few months ago about how it's vital to stand up to dictators and support democratic countries. i hope that the american people will make sure their representatives know that they do not support this, because this will be a disaster for ukraine. and again, i want to emphasize it will be a disaster for america's place in the world more generally. the stakes really could not be higher. >> i also am sad to say this ambassador, as i say thank you for your time. that i think

trump has now adopted a policy of appeasement. and we all know what happens when appeasement occurs. thank you, ambassador michael mcfaul, for taking the time. i know you've been very busy since yesterday. >> thank you for having me. >> still to come on the katie phang show, money talks, the looming budget battle on capitol hill and how congressional democrats are revisiting a 2018 playbook to sabotage the gop's plan to re-up their massive tax breaks for the wealthy. don't go breaks for the wealthy. don't go anywhere. can your pad absorb everything and stay fresh? always flexfoam can. it's the only pad made with a flexible foam core that locks in blood and sweat while the top stays dry. keeping you up to 100% leak and odor free. see what foam can do for you. for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. [crowd chant] far-xi-ga ask your doctor about farxiga. ♪♪ know it. introducing

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visit homeserve.com. >> tuesday, president trump addresses both chambers of congress. rachel maddow and team will break down the speech and its impact at home and abroad. the joint address to congress. special coverage tuesday at eight. on msnbc. each week, veteran lawyers andrew. weissmann and mary mccord break down the latest. developments inside the trump administration's department of justice. >> the administration. >> doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. >> new episodes. >> drop every tuesday. >> the stage is set, and the drama has only just begun. in the 119th congress, with house and senate republicans both approving competing budget measures. top republican leaders are signaling that they're not going to accept the other chamber's version. one point of contention in the house's framework is $880 billion in spending cuts, which top republicans have made clear will come out of medicaid and other

social safety net services in order to finance a major tax reduction. and also on congress to do list is the march 14th deadline to prevent a government shutdown. joining me now is congresswoman brittany pettersen of colorado. congresswoman, first and foremost, congratulations on the birth of your beautiful son, sam. we all got to see him this week when you were forced to travel, forced to travel from colorado to capitol hill during your maternity leave with one month old sam to vote against the house budget measure. you voted not only to protect the interests of the kids in colorado, but also to protect all americans who risk losing their health care, education, food assistance, and more. >> yes. >> you said it best. it is. >> it's devastating what. >> this blueprint. >> is setting forth. >> and what that means for the people in my district and for people across the country who depend on this is money that

goes. this is support that goes directly to families. and so this is going to significantly increase costs for americans. this hits actually red states the hardest. and it's devastating when i think about what they're cutting for food assistance for our kids, seniors for our veterans. when you talk about health care for kids and moms, 40% of pregnancies are actually covered by medicaid. and it's people like my mom who work hourly wages, and they never make enough to be able to pay for health care. and they're going to show up in the er rooms, which will be exponentially more expensive. and so this doesn't save us money just on the health care costs alone. they're going to come downstream in our er rooms, but it will actually increase our deficit by trillions of dollars. so we keep hearing the republicans talk about, you know, we need to go after the deficit. this is about saving america. and they're actually increasing it by trillions of dollars to give more tax breaks to the most wealthy individuals like elon musk. and i truly

don't know how anybody can show up to their district and show their face after voting for this. >> yeah, i noted just a few minutes ago that you were forced to have to fly to d.c. because current house rules prohibit proxy voting, but in january, you introduced and i'm going to say, rare bipartisan legislation that would allow for up to 12 weeks for members who are new parents. how important is it because these votes are now coming down to, to numbers into inches, right. in terms of these votes. how important is it for congress to move into the 21st century and recognize that members of congress are giving birth and becoming new parents? >> yeah. so i introduced a bipartisan resolution and proud that, you know, people from both sides of the aisle know how important this is. but i you know, it's not just moms, it's also dads. we have, you know, dads that are co-leading this resolution wide support. and unfortunately, speaker johnson refused to bring it to the

floor. so i you know, we have the opportunity to force a vote if we bring a discharge petition after 30 days, which is something that we're evaluating, but we need congress to be more accessible to regular people and reflect the americans that we're representing. and we do that by addressing those systemic barriers and something that is a huge barrier is when you give birth, making sure that you actually are able to your constituents still have a voice and that you're not stopped from voting. i wasn't actually able to fly from colorado to dc to vote a few weeks before giving birth. because of the medical restrictions. and, you know, airlines won't even let you board at a certain point. and so we have to make congress more accessible and move forward, things like this. i mean, it just makes sense. >> so on tuesday, president trump is delivering a joint address to congress. we know that the democrats have tapped senator elissa slotkin to be able to, you know, kind of lodge

the response from the democrats. are you going to be attending this on tuesday? and what are you expecting to hear? >> so i'm actually, you know, it was incredibly difficult to fly with a newborn across countries. you can imagine. and, you know, i'm going to be there for anything that i can make a difference with my vote. but i'm only going to be showing up when those critical votes are coming. so we expect that the next week i'll have to be there for votes as we're facing another shutdown forced by republicans, you know, throwing our shutting down our government, throwing our economy off a cliff. so more self-inflicted wounds. what i believe we'll hear from the president is more anger, fear, misinformation, lies. and just, you know, this is a difficult time. i think that people were following my story because they had a glimmer of hope that they want to know that people are fighting for them, and that

we're showing up in the ways that we need to be right now, because people are very scared of what's to come. >> well, you are showing true leadership and we appreciate the sacrifice. and again, congratulations on the birth of sam. congresswoman pedersen, thank you so much for joining us today, i appreciate it. >> thank you so much. it's great to be with you. >> nice to see you. and joining me now for more is v spear, content creator and the founder of under the desk. news v it's good to see you back on the katie phang show. convicted felon donald trump and jd vance showed immense disrespect for ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy yesterday in the oval office. but as i discussed with ambassador mcfaul earlier in the show, the bigger picture takeaway trump vance showed that the white house is ready to welcome authoritarianism over democracy. republicans then later shaming themselves even more than usual by showing some. >> it's completely ridiculous. and honestly, the more i was watching it, the more i was like, this is giving wwe. this is giving a vince mcmahon

production. it felt very much planned, like their intention was to try and prove or gaslight the american people into believing that zelensky is somehow uncouth or not ready to lead or not trustworthy. and it felt like a setup right down to the question that that far right propagandist, quote, new media reporter asked when he said, why aren't you wearing a suit? the entire purpose was not to show diplomacy and to sign this rare earth minerals doctrine that they want to have together, but rather to embarrass and humiliate zelensky. and i think it fell flat on its face. now, i did wear a suit to your show today, but that is for the comfort for any conservative viewers you have. i want to make sure they can hear what i'm saying today. >> so yesterday we learned trump is planning to sign an executive order to make english the official language of the united states. and he is incredibly. large in english. so for donald trump and others, i just said, it's incredible to me that

donald trump thinks that the entire world should only have to speak in english. in my opinion. v this is just more anti-immigrant sentiment from him to stoke division and to feed some red meat to his maga base. >> you're entirely correct. so here on under the desk, we have three buckets that we put the trump information into. the first one are things he does that are illegal and unconstitutional. we have to pay a ton of attention to that. then there's the stuff he does for the grift. donald trump is not a long term thinker. he is a short term thinker who kind of monkey branches from one get rich quick to one rug, pull to one short term decision every single day. what can he do to get immediate gratification? what can he do to enrich himself? that's bucket two, and bucket three are things he does to overwhelm our nervous systems, to cause outrage, to cause distraction. and an executive order like saying english has to be the national language. this falls into bucket three for me. this is something he's doing as a distraction to try and soak up more media attention, to try and get people

to not pay attention to the deeply unconstitutional and unpopular things that he does. >> and this week, press secretary caroline leavitt announced the white house will control which outlets participate in the pool that covers presidential events and shares material with other media outlets, which was a duty that was previously determined by the white house correspondents association. v you are just doing an amazing job in independent media. i'm trying to hold the line here where i am. how important is it, though, to show that the dismantling of the free press is yet a huge pillar of donald trump and his autocratic ways? >> you know, a lot of folks will say, i only watch uv or i'm only watching social media news or i'm not. i'm not tuned in to the mainstream media anymore. and i've always fought to say we are better when we're together. and i think what caroline leavitt is doing is trying to force that divide and continue to push the idea that americans can't trust institutions, americans can't

trust the press, when in fact, a lot of the reporting i do comes from your show, even comes from some incredible reporting that is happening in the mainstream. but maybe they like the way i say it better, or they just like being under a desk when they hear their news. what i think she's doing is continuing to, you know, benefit herself by trying to show that we're so divided. and when she put out this thing saying, oh, i'm going to offer a new media seat to me, i did not apply because it was very clear to me that this was intended to be a propaganda seat. when you are a new media reporter, you don't go in there like maybe you would and be able to just ask your question. your questions have to be pre-approved because you don't have that legacy yet. that the that the white house correspondents association comes with, where they're not going to make them get pre-approved questions. so every single person who sits in that seat is there to further the agenda of trump. they're not there to ask genuine questions on record or to hold him accountable. and now with her saying that they're going to pick the entire press pool, i mean, i can't tell what's worse when he wouldn't do

press conferences at all, or this which simply just exists to prompt caroline into giving more propaganda, more talking points from the trump admin. just like that question with why doesn't zelensky wear a suit? that was a setup to try and reaffirm what their agenda was for the day? it was not a genuine question. and of all the people that she's invited into that room, so far they have all been far right loyalists of trump. there hasn't been one new media source that was there to genuinely ask a question or hold power accountable. >> which is why you don't ever hear them ask donald trump, hey emperor, you're not wearing any clothes. v spear under the desk news. thank you, my friend, for being here. i appreciate. >> it, katie. see you soon. >> yes. coming up next, balancing the scales of justice. the democratic party's latest lawsuit, keeping trump from weaponizing the fec against his political enemies. plus, the friday night filing for more than a dozen retired federal judges, rejecting the dismissal of new york city mayor eric adams bribery indictment. former federal prosecutor paul butler

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ahead of stroke risk. this is no time to wait. >> the twice impeached, quadruple indicted found liable for civil fraud, defamation and sexual abuse. convicted felon donald trump was hit with a series of legal losses this week as he tries to make america grotesque all over. earlier this week, a federal judge ordered the trump administration to rescind a memo calling for the firing of federal workers, but stopped short of reinstating the thousands of now fired employees. trump was also dealt losses over an attempted refugee ban, funding to hospitals, offering gender affirming care and on birthright citizenship, and for those calling on democrats to do something, they're hearing you. the dnc launched a lawsuit yesterday against trump for attempting to take over independent agencies, including the federal election commission. one takeaway from all of this the fight in court

still matters. joining me now is paul butler, professor of law at georgetown law school, former federal prosecutor and an msnbc legal analyst. he's also the author of the amazing book chokehold policing black men. paul, it's an honor always to have you spend time, but a privilege to have you here on the set. let's start, actually, with this late night filing from 14 retired federal district court judges in the eric adams case, urging judge dale ho not to dismiss this case. and what i really found compelling was they lay out in their proposed amicus brief, a friend of the court brief, that the court should conduct an evidentiary hearing, including production of documents from parties and other entities and sworn testimony by witnesses to material events in the matter. paul, it sounds like they're trying to tell judge ho that a record needs to be made for him to make an educated decision. >> i think that's. >> right, katie. so you remember. >> when the. >> deputy attorney general. >> moved to dismiss the case, or as ordered lawyers, prosecutors to dismiss the case? he said it

wasn't because he thought adams was innocent. he literally said he hadn't reviewed the merits of the case. it was all about politics, about using some kind of hammer to force adams to carry out the political agenda of the trump administration in the nation's largest city. when they went to that hearing, where the to ask the judge to dismiss it, he went by himself. katie, the reason for that is if he knew, if he brought any of those federal prosecutors who worked on the case, they'd be forced to say in public what they told him behind doors that his order was unethical against every rule in the department of justice manual. so under the law, prosecutors have huge discretion to dismiss cases since they're the ones who bring them. but these federal judges are asking for at least a hearing to find out what actually happened. because if it's all about politics, maybe that meets the standard where this case simply can't be dismissed, that the judge needs to appoint a special counsel. >> yeah. and also, let's talk

about the autonomy, the independence of federal prosecutors. you were a federal prosecutor. your thoughts about what ed martin is currently doing? he's the interim u.s. attorney in the district of columbia. he has now sacked and demoted several prosecutors that were investigating january 6th that were dealing with the proud boys. he's now made them to prosecute misdemeanors. i mean, paul, there's going to be some very heavy petty theft cases being prosecuted now in dc, but it's clearly punitive. they're being punished for not doing their jobs. >> they're being punished because he wants them to resign. he wants them to leave office. he wants them to be part of this purge where trump is getting rid of everybody who has any expertise on public corruption, so that that administration won't be held accountable. so, katie, he's taking the most senior prosecutors in his office, the people who have expertise in national security, on defense, on intelligence. and he's sending them to the lowest level to do low level

misdemeanor cases. katie. katie, when i started at that office, i didn't have any trial experience. you know where they sent me? they sent me to misdemeanors, and they sent me to this papering office where now these experienced people are going. that's where you sit there. police officers arrested somebody. they bring the papers, you make it a criminal case. again, no experience. federal prosecutor should be doing this work. he's trying to get them to leave. >> he's trying to humiliate them into submission or to leave is trying. >> to do. that's right. >> so, you know, i did say in the setup for your interview that the dnc, the d, triple c, and the d fcc has actually filed this lawsuit yesterday in the district, columbia federal court in the district of columbia. it's a really interesting lawsuit because it basically is calling out trump, pam bondi as the ag and the fec, saying that this executive order that donald trump entered or declared basically takes away the ability for the fec to independently operate, because if they were to do so, they would run afoul of this executive order, because

trump has said that he and bondi are the only arbiters of the law in the united states. how likely do you think that we're going to see some type of action in federal court to maybe stop the moves by trump and bondi when it comes to that executive order? >> i think it's likely, i think the resistance that we're seeing that from lawyers on the case, trying to push back against these extraordinary power grabs by the trump administration. so this new argument that they're making is based on this idea that the president, under the constitution, has authority for anything unless the constitution explicitly says he can't do that. so it's not just the federal trade commission, it's the federal reserve that if trump gets his way, he'll be able to fire the chair or any other person he could control the interest rate, try to put his hand on the economy again. under the law, these agencies are supposed to be independent. trump's acting like he doesn't care about the law. he's firing folks. so, katie, the real

question now is whether he's just trying to see what he can get away with, or whether he's actually trying to tee up an issue before the supreme court because he thinks that the super conservative majority will go his way. >> and there's no longer a wall between him and the doj because he has loyalists. pam bondi there. unbelievable. paul butler, it's always so good to see you, especially here on set. thank you for being here i appreciate it. my pleasure. coming up next, and to paul's point, defending democracy, the latest from inside a federal courtroom where lawyers are making the case that elon musk is in direct violation of the united states constitution. my conversation with executive chair of the state democracy defenders fund, norm eisen, and how he's convincing judges to restore power to the people. restore power to the people. don't go anywhere. if you're living with dry amd, you may be at risk for developing geographic atrophy, or ga. ga can be unpredictable—and progress rapidly—leading to irreversible vision loss. now there's something you can do to... ♪ ( slow. it. down.) ♪

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protecting. >> the bureaucracy. >> the bureaucracy. >> is not a business. >> those are not real jobs. producing federal revenue, by the way. >> they're consuming. >> taxpayer dollars. those jobs are paid for by the american taxpayer. people who work real jobs. earn real income, pay federal taxes, and. then pay these federal employees. federal employees do not deserve their jobs. federal employees not do not deserve their paychecks. >> congresswoman and federal employee marjorie taylor greene, defending the massive cuts to the federal workforce. americans, i want you to listen to what she said very carefully. she's saying that federal employees, quote, do not deserve their jobs and, quote, do not deserve their paychecks. and as elon musk and his dodge bros. continue to fire thousands of federal workers across the country in a bid to save money for the government, lawyers are bringing the battle to the

courtroom, and they're fighting back. yesterday, i got the chance to sit down with the executive chair of the state democracy defenders fund, norm eisen, about the lawsuits he's levied at elon musk and doge to protect american workers and the constitution. thanks for joining me. norm eisen, listen, you were just in court this afternoon for a preliminary injunction hearing, as you are representing plaintiffs that are suing to stop elon musk and doge. let our viewers know how it went in court today. >> katie, we think we have a powerful case that elon musk is violating the united states constitution, the appointments clause. which said nobody can act as a principal officer. you can't have significant decision making responsibility in the federal government. more than a cabinet member, unless you're confirmed by congress. cabinet members are confirmed by congress. well, elon musk holds press conferences in the oval

office. he lectures the cabinet. he has the power of life and death over federal agencies. we had a long conversation today about how he said he was going to kill usaid. he sent people in there to do it. he was personally involved. and then several days later, he said, i spent the week and we spent the weekend feeding usaid into the woodchipper. could have gone to some great parties. let me tell you, it was no party for the thousands of men and women of usaid who represent america's interests around the world. you can't do that under the constitution. and that was the case we made today. he has no power to do that. >> did you get a ruling yet from the bench, from the judge in this case? >> both sides got tough, smart questions from the judge. we thought we had the better

answers. we don't have the ruling yet. he's taking it under advisement and we are working on it. >> you know, norm, you guys got a good victory yesterday at a federal court in california. a federal judge ruling in your favor, stating that the trump administration's firing of thousands of probationary employees was illegal and should be stopped. i mean, there are a few judges that have ruled to allow the administration to continue with its downsizing efforts. but let's talk about that one, because it's significant, because it spoke directly to the opm and to the acting director of opm, charles ezell. >> he's going to be hauled into court for a hearing in court. but in the meantime, in just two weeks, he's going to be examined on the witness stand. the office of personnel management. they're the ones who have ordered these firings of tens of thousands of government workers. katie. and in that case, not unlike the

musk dodge case, we just argued opm has no statutory authority to fire anybody except for people who work in opm. and the judge heard arguments again, tough questions for both sides. but in the end of the day, he said, these workers, probationary workers, these are workers who've been with the government for a short amount of time. they're the future of the government. they're the like the lifeblood, the growth of the government. opm can't order them fired. and the judge got a little firm about it with the government. and he's right. so now we're going to get the head of the office of personnel management and other witnesses. we're going to get discovery. we're going to get them in court in just two weeks. and we're going to establish wonderful lead counsel for the unions, conservation groups, veterans groups, and many, many more.

we're going to establish, led by my colleagues at the altshuler berzon law firm. we are going to establish the illegality with live in court testimony mini trial. >> yeah. and so, norma, i'm glad you used the word discovery. and so for our kind of our legal eagles that have been created over the last few administrations when it comes to the law. discovery is this great process to be able to obtain evidence. because of course, we've seen the trump administration likes to traffic in a lack of evidence. but when you go to court, you have to have it. what can we see? could we see depositions of people like elon musk? you're actually suing elon musk in his individual capacity in two federal lawsuits in d.c. and maryland. so could we see things like depose of elon musk? could we see the production of internal correspondence with musk and doge administrators? >> one of the very interesting things in both that case in san francisco and the federal court ordering that that termination

of probationary employees was illegal. and in our case today is both judges talked about how important it is to get these basic documentary records. that's all discovery is saying to the government, turn over basic information about what happened here. who authorized this? who had the power to take these actions? where's the delegation? we call them the memos that give the power. how is this done? according to law. and it was missing in my case, saying elon musk is acting unconstitutionally at usaid. as you know, i'm suing him. both in this and in other cases, in his official capacity as an individual government worker. and in the san francisco case, the judge ordered the production of discovery information. so

very important aspect of achieving accountability against trump, musk, doge and the rest. >> we're looking forward, norm, for you to come back and tell us what's going on with those cases. and we're also appreciative that there's still some judges out there that believe in the rule of law. norm eisen, thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule, fighting the good fight to join us. appreciate you. >> thanks, katie. >> coming up. saving. five new details this week about an all women crew of six set to blast off into space on the blue origin rocket ship. astronaut and activist amanda nguyen joins me next. and how she's preparing for the trip in her new memoir, and how survivors of sexual assault are still shooting for the stars. you're watching the todd takes prevagen for his brain the stars. you're watching the katie phang show. and this is his story. hi, i'm todd. i'm a veteran of 23 years. i served three overseas tours. i love to give back to the community.

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in london to discuss peace efforts in ukraine. this meeting comes a day after that contentious meeting with president donald trump and vice president jd vance. so many of us are told from a young age to shoot for the stars, but few of us will actually reach them. my next guest dreamed of joining nasa and becoming an astronaut, but that dream suffered a horrifying setback when she was sexually assaulted while attending harvard university. upon learning that her rape kit would be destroyed after six months, she set forth on a path speaking up for sexual assault survivors, successfully helping to pass federal legislation in the sexual survivors rights act, as well as passing a historic global resolution at the united nations. and this week, it was announced that this spring, she's going to join an all female crew to become the first woman of vietnamese descent to fly in space with blue origin. joining me now is amanda nguyen, activist, nobel peace prize

nominee and astronaut and the author of the forthcoming book saving five a memoir of hope. i'm also most proud to say, amanda, that you are a good friend, and i am so proud that you are finally fulfilling your lifelong dream. i'm getting emotional. you are fulfilling your lifelong dream of going to space. how does it feel? >> well. >> katie, thank you so much for having me. and also, i want to say that my dreams wouldn't be possible without seeing women like you. you know, i know we're in women's history month, and i'm just so grateful to not only be the first, but try my best to hold open that door for others. >> so let's talk about your memoir, saving five. where does the title come from? because you hit on four different ages in your life in that book five, 15, 22, and 30? i'm going to assume that's what it is. but why were those particular stages so

important for you? >> saving five is about how we can grow up to save the five year old versions of ourselves. and my memoir tells the story of how i gave up my astronaut dreams to fight for justice after my rape, but also how i had to rewrite the. >> law to. >> save my evidence, and how i found my way back to the stars. and at all these ages, there are pivotal moments in my life. at five, my childhood. at 15, trying to get to harvard. and at 22, surviving my assault. >> so, amanda, i want you to tell the viewers about your personal zero g indicator. what does that mean? and why is it a note that you wrote to yourself where you said, never, never, never give up? >> yeah. >> every astronaut has the zero g indicator, something that tells us when we have hit space that we are here and it floats. for me, it is very special. it is a promise that i made to

myself after i left the hospital. i, at 22, had written that note. never, never, never give up. i taped it to my laptop to look at it, to try to graduate. i looked at it when i graduated. i looked at it when i was fighting for my rights in congress, at the united nations. and i will be looking at it when i float over earth. and hopefully for so many people, they might feel what i also will feel in that moment, which is a full circle moment of healing. i want all survivors to know that you can honor the person you were before you were hurt. their dreams still matter, and even if they're as wild as flying in space. >> you know? amanda, one of the things you do so well is you give other people, especially victims of sexual assault and those that survive those types of traumatic experiences. you give them the courage to grow and to thrive and to achieve those dreams. but you do it in

such a transparent way. you've written a book now that talks about the fallout from what happened to you, and you've kind of had to relive the trauma. and i know it's not easy. so how did it feel to actually reduce it to writing and to put it in a book so that millions can read what your experience was? >> that's such an insightful question. it was very painful to write, but i want to live out loud because so many of us have died in silence. you know, for so many of us, we go to the police, we go to the hospital, but we're met with a system that is so broken. you know, the law has a gender and that gender is not female. rape is the easiest violent crime to get away with. the conviction rate is 1%. and i wanted to make sure that that wasn't my story. but i also wanted to give hope to other survivors so that they know how to find hope themselves to. >> amanda, when your memoir, saving five is coming out very

soon and i am wishing you the very best of luck when you fly to space, i'll be rooting for you. take take care, my friend. and thanks to all of you for joining us today. kamsahamnida, which is korean for. thank you. you can catch me back here next saturday at noon eastern. msnbc saturday at noon eastern. msnbc reports with alex witt is dry... tired... itchy, burning... my dry eye symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation. xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses and wait fifteen minutes before re-inserting. dry eye over and over? it's time for xiidra. >> breakdowns are costly. >> it started tugging. >> it started making.

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