some fairly reassuring news out of the vatican, as you mentioned, especially compared to what they came out yesterday, that respiratory respiratory crisis he suffered from on friday. now, theus about an hour ago, the vatican said that the pope's clinical condition remains stable. he did not have any more of those respiratory crises. he has no fever. his white blood cells count is in the norm, meaning there is no sign of an infection and that he continues his oxygen therapy. also in the morning, the vatican said that he woke up, he had breakfast, he read the newspapers and even went to the private chapel in the hospital apartment to pray for about 20 minutes. so fairly reassuring news from the vatican. but of course, as you mentioned, the doctors cause for called for caution because his clinical situation remains complex. alex. >> absolutely. and the fact that holy week, the holy season, it's all approaching. what does the church plan to do regarding lent

and services? >> well, so far, the cardinals took the place of pope francis in those masses and events that he was meant to preside. and of course, there's an indication that they will continue to do so while the pope is in hospital. but of course, as you mentioned, holy week is approaching, so hopefully the pope will come out of the hospital and back here at the vatican long before then. >> everyone is hoping for that. okay. claudio lavanga, thank you. and in moments, the return of the doge questionnaire, plus how the rest of the world is seeing that head spinning meeting at the white house yesterday. good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome, everyone. to alex witt reports. we have the breaking news. ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky in london for meetings with british prime minister keir starmer after a stunning meeting went off the rails in the oval office on friday. so here's part of a report by nbc's vaughn hillyard.

>> we're not in a good position. you don't have the cards right now with us. you start having cards. cards right now you don't. you're playing cards. you're playing cards. you're gambling with a lie. >> then the fallout. >> yes, i think it was not good. i think it was not good because we had a lot of different. >> ukrainian president. volodymyr zelensky last night telling fox news he regretted the oval office showdown that stunned the country in the world. >> i'm not. >> allying with putin. i'm not aligned with anybody. >> his vice. >> president interjecting. >> what makes america a good country? is america engaging in diplomacy? >> reaction to the confrontation. swift. >> i have never been more proud of the president. >> i don't. >> know if we can. >> ever. >> do business with zelensky again. >> this was not professional. >> we don't gain anything by acting like bullies. >> i just felt it was so disrespectful of an ally. and my

hope is that somehow we're still going to be able to resurrect this mineral agreement, which is good for our country and good for their country. >> what's happened last night in the news? it just like so disappointing and so confusing. i just can't believe that in 21st century it could happen. >> you put the guy in the corner, the weak guy in the corner and put the. >> gun. >> to his head. and that's what that's what. >> you're. >> doing here. what pitch are the democrats going to swing at? finally, when is the opposition going to come? we've seen it from a few. >> leaders in more than two dozen nations reaffirming support for ukraine. here's nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel. >> germany in particular. >> taking a very strong stance. >> one legislator there saying that he was shocked that the united states could stab an ally in the back. now the europeans are trying not just to show zelensky's support, but they're trying to potentially replace the united. states as the key

diplomatic player. >> meantime, the new york times reporting the flow of u.s. weapons to ukraine has nearly stopped and may end completely. all of this as the pressure on federal workers grows as source, telling nbc news some federal employees received a second dose email telling them to send five bullet points of what they accomplished this week by monday night. also a short time ago, a march in support of transgender rights taking place in washington, crowds protesting the president's anti-transgender executive orders. and before heading to florida friday, white house staffers right there spotted loading about 15 boxes of documents onto air force one. trump spokesman says the fbi gave back materials taken during the mar-a-lago raid in 2022. and this breaking news from the last hour. former new york governor andrew cuomo just announcing he is entering the race for new york city mayor. we're going to have more details later this hour on this story for you. of course, there's no shortage of reaction today. we've got reporters and analysts at the

ready to go through all of these new developments. and we're going to begin with nbc's megan fitzgerald in london. for more on that meeting. that's just ended between starmer and zelenskyy. so give us a sense, megan, how this meeting went, given yesterday's tense exchange with donald trump. >> alex, you know, it was a stark contrast to what we saw yesterday. i mean, before we even heard from these two leaders, we could see the warm embrace. you saw prime minister keir starmer leaving the doors of ten downing street walking to embrace zelensky, shaking hands, smiling before going inside. then we had an opportunity to hear from both leaders, starmer reiterating his strong, unwavering support for ukraine, welcoming president zelensky to great britain. and then, of course, we heard from zelensky as well. in fact, i want to play for you just a little bit of what we heard just about an hour ago. >> i hope you heard. >> some of that. >> cheering in the street. that is the people of the united.

kingdom coming. out to. demonstrate how much they support you, how much. >> they support ukraine. >> and our. >> absolute determination. >> to stand. >> with the unwavering determination. >> and then president zelensky going on to thank keir starmer for having him, thanking the people of the united kingdom and also thanking king charles, who he said he will be meeting with tomorrow. now, you know, we've seen prime minister starmer really sort of seeing himself as this bridge between ukraine and the us yesterday, after that fiery encounter in the oval office. we know that the prime minister called both president trump and zelensky. but there is a clear understanding across europe that this is a pivotal moment, this if there was any doubt at all that the moment was now to step up yesterday certainly sealed the deal. and understanding that this is not the world that we've seen over the last 80 years, post world

war two, things have certainly changed, and a collective understanding that we're heading into unchartered territory, europe, understanding that they need to take the reins and sort of start to lead the free world. and that sort of brings us to tomorrow, where prime minister starmer is going to be hosting some 18 leaders from across europe to discuss how they can collectively defend ukraine, what they can do in terms of stepping up defense. we saw last week an intense round of diplomacy with the prime minister of great britain, along with, you know, the president of france, trying to convince president trump that what's needed here is this military backstop, this security guarantee for ukraine. it certainly appears as though that's not something that president trump is interested in doing. so now it falls on europe to try and figure out if they can do it alone, without the support of the united states. something that's unlikely, but certainly a topic that they will

be discussing tomorrow. >> all right. megan fitzgerald from london. thank you, megan, for that. let's go now to nbc's yamiche alcindor, who's at the white house. yamiche, what are we hearing from the administration today about what happened in those moments after the tense oval office exchange between trump and president zelensky? >> well, i can tell you that president trump, as well as his cabinet officials and close allies, are doubling down on the idea that they believe president zelensky was disrespectful and that it was right to show him the door at the white house. we also heard from this morning from the national security adviser, michael waltz, who was one of the people tasked with actually telling zelensky that he needed to leave the white house. take a listen to what he said this morning. >> we had a. >> meeting after that. >> exchange. >> after the press was asked to leave. >> and we. >> advised the president. >> pretty much unanimously. >> advised the president. >> that after that. >> insult in the oval office. >> we. >> just do not.

>> see how. >> that could move forward. >> that any further engagement. >> would only go. >> backwards from this. >> moment on. >> and that's. >> what we. >> walked over. >> and told. >> president zelensky and his team. >> so really, details on a stunning, stunning engagement in the oval office. we've just never seen anything like this, this confrontational, testy conversation that we saw before cameras happened with the president of the ukraine of ukraine and the president of the united states. i will say that president trump has left the door open on whether or not he would speak to zelensky again, saying that he wants to speak to him when he thinks he's ready for peace. what the timeline for that is, is very unclear, because president trump said that zelensky wanted to actually come back to the white house immediately after that exchange after he left. but the president said that that was not the right thing to do. so it's unclear when zelensky will be welcomed back here and when and whether or not that earth, that rare earth minerals deal that would have given the u.s. valuable rights to ukrainian minerals, whether that will ever be on the

table again. a lot of questions here, alex, and not a lot of answers at this moment. >> yeah, okay. we appreciate the perspective nonetheless. thank you, yamiche, my friend. joining me now, jesse moore, democratic strategist and former white house speechwriter under president obama, along with brendan buck, former press secretary to house speaker john boehner. both are msnbc political analyst. welcome, guys. jesse, your initial thoughts on that meeting and this cooling off period, if you want to call it that, where the white house said can't continue the conversation right now, even though vladimir zelensky indicated he wanted to. >> well. >> initial thought. >> i think like a lot of people, it was just shock and embarrassment. i think. i think the first feeling i had was embarrassment, both globally, both as someone who's worked in government, as somebody who values the foundations of our democracy, i just it was it was incredibly hard to watch and painful to watch. so i guess that's not a partizan thing. that was just emotionally, i just couldn't believe what i was

watching. i've stood in that office and felt kind of, you know, the honor of being in that office, the weight of that office, the history of that office. and now it i don't i don't mean this in a trite way. it just it feels like we're watching reality tv, but it's our country. and i think president zelensky just had no idea to what degree the american democracy has become a reality television show with, you know, shouting matches and humiliation as the main hook. so really embarrassed and really hopeful that this is one of those things that can start to snap people away from the kind of post-election malaise that we're in. >> yeah. what about you, brendan? because there are republicans that are speaking out against the undiplomatic display. but but most are falling in line. and as we see america's foreign policy drastically shift. at what point do republicans who may whisper their grievances privately, finally find a voice to stand up

to trump? i mean, how do you think the party feels about this behind closed doors? >> i imagine a lot of them were shocked. >> as all of us were, but they're. >> not going to be able to say that because the. >> the greatest. >> sin you can have is to insult our great president. what i. >> what i. struggle with is i don't really know where the. >> insult was. you had the national security adviser say that it's hard to come back from that insult. i'm not sure exactly what zelensky said that was insulting. >> he was arguing. >> his case. and, you know, the republican elected officials sort of lying at this point is that he should have known better. he should have known. >> to come. >> in. >> and just. >> be more contrite and more thankful to the president. and, you know, look, maybe, maybe he. >> should have been been that. >> way, but that sort of misses the point. it should not be an issue of whether or not someone is sufficiently stroked the president's ego. it should matter whether or not one of our european allies is going to be

gobbled up by russia. and if we care about that. and what's so striking is that donald trump seems more to care about whether or not someone was sufficiently sucking up to him, more than perhaps, you know, what the new world order is. and look, i think all of us, you know, are kind of put our hands in our our face, in our hands on this. but i don't expect anything to change, because if somebody is deemed as insulting donald trump, it's hard for a lot of people to, i guess, defend it. >> so, jesse, last year, speaker mike johnson risked his job to bring up a bill to send additional aid to ukraine. yesterday, he praised trump's conduct, saying what we witnessed in the oval office today was an american president putting america first, pointing out the republican hypocrisy and the pivots that are on display. i mean, that would take more time than i have to do it, but how far will it go? and can democrats pounce on that? >> well, it feels like every time we hit the bottom of this pit, somebody finds a new kind of shovel. and so i'm not sure

where the where the bottom is. i would brandon i want to hear your thoughts on that. i'll be honest. but i really think that what we what we really witnessed is the new native tongue of american democracy. and i don't i don't mean that in a partizan way. i mean, this election was won by it wasn't the landslide or mandate that he paints it as. but he won. you know, he won the election. and the new native tongue of american democracy is fury. it's brutality. and it's a not so subtle endorsement of a new imperialism and manifest destiny. and that's scary. that's actually scary. and i feel like we're the frog boiling in a pot of water right now. and i think the water is bubbling. >> brendan, we we've learned that even after the oval office clash, lenski wanted to stay, but it was the white house that canceled the rest of the plans

of including the press conference they were going to hold. have the ukrainians escorted out of the white house. and today's zelensky posted he's thankful to trump and congress for their support. so trump's famous for the art of the deal. but is the lenski the only one who was honestly willing to come to the table here? i mean, how can trump work with other leaders if this is how he acts? does he just use bullying tactics when dealing with anyone except maybe putin? >> i mean, obviously that's that's his m.o. we're going to have to have an outcome here. i mean, look, this was a really, really bad, historically bad. moment for country and the presidency. but what we've what we left the white house with was without was was not a resolution. you need to have a resolution at some point. i think donald trump is still going to want to reach that. i, i do believe that he, like a lot of people, want the war to end. that's obviously not his top priority. his top priority is, again, people groveling to him.

but i do think he wants this to end. and so i'm hoping hoping that this is the really bad meeting before the good meeting. and because at some point this can't go on forever. and, you know, vladimir zelensky left the white house with a war raging. and that's just not acceptable, i don't think, for anybody. >> yeah, absolutely. both of you, jesse brennan, you guys stay with me, because in just a few minutes, i'm going to ask questions about president trump and whether he will respect the rule of law. but first, the remarkable thing ukraine's president said hours after that historic blow up in the oval office. we're back in 90s. >> thanks for calling. consumer cellular ranked number. >> one. >> in network coverage and. >> customer satisfaction. >> hi. >> my friend linda has you guys and gets way. >> better coverage than i do. >> sounds like linda has you beat. >> not at bowling. >> you're breaking up a little. >> are you really ranked number one in coverage? yep. and plans start at. >> just $20. >> oh. >> we could afford lessons for linda. >> you're embarrassing yourself.

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in average finance savings. ♪♪ putin. and you said that enough with the war. i think that is very important to say these words to putin at the very beginning, at the very beginning of war, because he is a killer and terrorist. but i hope that together we can stop him. >> i'm aligned with the world, and i want to get this thing over with. you see the hatred he's got for putin. it's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. he's got tremendous hatred. >> for more on the fallout from president trump's shockingly ugly meeting with his ukrainian counterpart in the oval office yesterday, i'm joined now by lisa yasko, a member of the ukrainian parliament. lisa, welcome. how are ukrainians reacting today to the blowup we saw in the white house yesterday? >> it has been. >> absolutely a sleepless night and ukrainians watched all the

news, hardly could fall asleep. then air siren went on and missiles were flying ballistic and drones are flying around all the ukraine. very emotional and hard night and morning for all of us. but for us, it's also a moment of unity, because this is the moment of truth. unfortunately, we see that american leadership at this stage doesn't want to accept the real names of the reality or wants to play a game. shifting the names. but for ukrainians, it is not acceptable. so for us, it's the moment when we understand that we need to continue fighting not only with weapon, but also for truth, because it looks like now it's the moment when someone wants to rewrite the history and stop calling aggressor and aggressor. and this is not acceptable.

>> lisa, you heard president trump say zelenskyy's hatred for putin is getting in the way of the deal. and given what putin has done to ukraine, you could hardly blame him if it's true. what is your read on donald trump's relationship with the russian president? >> well, i think that trump, once he was elected and even before one of his main goals is actually to is now to show that he can make a deal with putin and to show that he is much stronger than putin. and yesterday, president actually shows maybe for some part of his surrounding, that they are doing very well for american americans. first motto. but in fact, internationally, trump didn't look so strong, which means that putin is actually happy that united states are not in a stable position. so for us,

we understand long term that if trump wants to make some friends with putin at this stage, no matter what the interest is long term, he is not going to win. and putin, i'm sure he was smiling all this night and morning just because he is enjoying seeing how people who are in other continents are fighting with with each other. he likes it because at this, at this moment, he gains his power over everyone. >> trump said that zelenskyy doesn't even want a ceasefire. but is it as simple as that? because we heard zelenskyy say a ceasefire without security assurances would not work. considering how many times putin has violated ceasefire agreements in the past? >> exactly. we are not ready for this ceasefire with without security guarantees. so the reason why zelenskyy went to washington, went to see trump, is to sign the deal that

ukrainians also hope that would include at least a conversation and reassurance on the security guarantees. instead, we heard that we need to accept the ceasefire, but we know that every ceasefire that we ever had over the last ten years was broken by by russians. they don't care. so what is the sense of signing something that we don't believe in? and we, you know, we want to be heard. we are not a victim. we are in a in a position of truth and reality. yes we are. we are paying a lot of price. we are all full of blood because people are dying. but ceasefire, for the sake of just ticking the box that were there were a few minutes of the ceasefire and next day they will start killing us again. no, this is not what we want. we want real, real security guarantees.

>> president zelensky has directly and profusely thanked the american people in tweets and public statements. after a public reprimand from the president and vice president yesterday for not being thankful enough. he has thanked america many times before. in fact, here he is yesterday after the meeting. >> do you think your relationship with donald trump. president trump, after today can be salvaged? >> yes, of course, because it's relations more than two presidents. it's the historical relations, strong relations between our people. and that's why i always begin with to thank your people from our people. and this is the most important and of course, thankful to president and of course, to congress. but first of all, to your people. your people help to save our people. >> how well do you think zelensky is handling this

situation now? what do you think it will take to repair the relationship? can it must it be repaired? >> you know, when i watch this words and also i know how many messages i received myself today and this night from american people? this is very touching. i actually have tears in my eyes because we. i think our human hearts know the real truth. but for some political gambling with this idea of confusing who aggressor is, we are put. i mean we ukrainians and americans are put in a situation to start having a polarization between each other. and this is actually putin's goal, and this is against our interests. historically, we were very close and always strategic partners, and we should focus now on not allowing all russian propaganda

and everyone who wants to, who wants to break us and also our friendship to make it happen, because putin is doing it in every country now, inside different societies and between societies. and we have to be aware of that, that that's his tactics and his strategy. so no matter what happens, we need to be very strong in our friendship. >> lisa, i'm glad you're getting some messages of support from americans, and i'm going to promise you there are millions more who feel that way about ukraine, our allies and friends. thank you, lisa, for talking with us. we're thinking of you. they brought receipts, but the math isn't adding up. what to math isn't adding up. what to make of what doge is doing next. prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief... one beats ten. prilosec otc.

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meant to increase government efficiency. joining us is new york times investigative reporter david fahrenthold. let's get into this, david, because your report revealed some inaccurate information posted by d.o.j. and then just a few days later, some of doj's biggest savings were scrapped from the website. do we know why? i mean, musk points to the doj's website as evidence of transparency, but if the information is wrong or missing, doesn't that kind of defeat the whole purpose? >> yeah. that's right. >> so many. >> of these errors. >> that we saw were. >> among the. >> largest contracts. and in fact, on doj's. original wall of receipts, the five. largest savings were all wrong and wrong. not by a little bit, by a lot, by the factor of 100 or 1000. and what it looks like is that the different agencies. >> are. telling dodge. >> hey, look what we cut. we cut this. contract and that contract. >> we saved this much. >> and that when they are wrong, whether on purpose. >> or by accident, dodge doesn't have. >> the time or the skill or the inclination to catch those

errors. and so it claims these savings that are. far beyond what's real. to me, that raises a lot of questions about whether dodge knows. >> what it's doing. >> is it is it familiar enough with the government to be doing what it's doing to the government? >> so is there evidence, i mean, to your point there? is there evidence dodge is accurately keeping track of how much they've accomplished so far? because we remember. musk admitted dodge would make mistakes in the cabinet meeting. i mean, do we even know who in dodge is keeping track of the numbers? >> well, we've asked that to the white house, who's speaking on behalf of dodge, saying, okay, well, you know, why are there so many mistakes? you know, what are you doing to check this information, to come in to make sure you're not double or triple counting the same contract or counting something as being a thousand times bigger than it actually is. and they say, yes, we're checking it, but we're not getting a lot of detail about that. and i don't get a sense that they spend a lot of time on it, as you said. well, this doesn't show that dodge isn't making cuts. it's making huge cuts. the question is, is it accurate? is it making the right

cuts? is it actually doing some sort of analysis to be sure what it's doing is the right thing in the name of efficiency, or is it just cutting willy nilly? and these errors raise a lot of questions about that. >> and more pressure is mounting, with the federal judge ordering at least one dose staffer to testify in court. is one staffer enough to give a detailed, comprehensive and correct picture of what's happening? and do you think musk could be called to testify at some point? >> well, it does seem like that's the next frontier in these legal battles is trying to bring dodge itself, which is set up in a way to avoid accountability. right? musk isn't technically in charge of it. it isn't technically its own department. it's just part of the white house. there's been these legal efforts to try to impose some accountability and just transparency on it, like things like who runs dodge? we didn't even know that till a few days ago. to try to get inside that and figure out what they're doing. i'll be interested to see how that plays out, because as i said, it's set up in a way that would be deliberately slippery and hard to pin down and hard to understand. >> well, and despite all these mounting lawsuits that are stalling doj's cost cutting and

the firings, musk is plowing ahead. i mean, he's going agency to agency. is there any way to slow his efforts or get out ahead of them? >> you know, not from outside the administration. you know, there have been times when we've seen agencies push back, like the pushback on the, you know, tell us what you did last week. email with some agencies said, don't respond. but you know, what they're doing now is putting those folks within these agencies and then having them carry out the cuts. and you saw from the meeting. in the cabinet meeting this week, trump seems to be fully behind musk. he seems to, you know, he seems to be sort of pushing mr. musk and not telling him to stop at all. so, you know, the brake on this would come from the courts or from within the administration. and so far, the courts have been doing much more to try to stop those, or at least slow it down. >> here's an interesting nugget. you report that airbnb co-founder joe gebbia has joined doge to tackle the federal government's paper based retirement program. how is the co-founder of airbnb in a position to address this and how

big a project is it? >> it's a huge project, so this is a place i've actually been. the federal government operates operates basically a giant paperwork mine. it's like 28,000 file cabinets and a bunch of employees 230ft under the ground in an old limestone cavern in pennsylvania. and they process retirement paperwork by hand, because there's been lots of efforts to try to get all the different federal systems to talk to each other so they can figure out what federal employees deserve and benefits when they retire. all those efforts have failed. it's a gargantuan information technology effort involving a lot of really, really old systems. so maybe joe gebbia can take it on. it's certainly a task that others have tried before and failed, but this is exactly the kind of thing that doge was supposed to do fix, you know, outdated, inefficient government computer systems not originally slash the government. so this is an interesting test of doge and on its original mission. >> okay. well, we'll see if it works out. david fahrenthold, you always work out and we always appreciate you coming on

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>> mr. president. >> mr. president, with respect, i think it's disrespectful for you to come into the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the american media. right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. you should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict. >> joining me now is shelby talcott, white house correspondent for semafor. so look, vice presidents historically take a back seat to the president in conversations with foreign leaders. why did vance jump in? and by the way, the administration vehemently denies it. but did it all seem planned as many suggest? >> i've i've been. >> told by administration. >> officials that this was not planned. >> that the. >> president and. >> the. >> vice president. >> did go. >> into this meeting. >> hoping to. >> sign this minerals deal. with that being said, there. were clearly tensions from the start. their tensions have been building for weeks, and so it was not perhaps unusual that this ultimately happened, just given what's transpired over the

last few weeks. but you're right, it is very unusual for the vice president to come in and insert himself in the way that vice president vance did, but president trump has sort of empowered the vice president to do this. and you saw when the vice president started answering this reporter's question, which was kind of what prompted this discussion to go off the rails, donald trump defended him. and so you you don't see that with donald trump unless donald trump really wants to. so by all means, it seems like donald trump was completely okay with with what vance did and empowered him to do it and defended him when zelensky came back at him. >> but the word disrespectful that jd vance threw at vladimir zelensky, there are so many who are interpreting what zelensky was doing. just say, look, here's what's happening. i'm trying to explain myself. have you heard that argument and interpretation as well? >> i've certainly heard that argument from defenders of ukraine. and this is really

become an incredibly partizan issue. you talk to people who are big trump supporters and they are all in on the president's side. but you talk to people who are perhaps less trump supporters or more critical of him, and you're hearing that very argument you're hearing. well, zelensky came in and he has been at war for three years. he is a world leader himself. he has to defend what his country is doing. he can't go in and sort of, you know, be be seen as being walked all over. because when he goes back to ukraine, he has to answer to his people as well. >> yeah. extraordinary that he's being yelled at. your people are dying. as if he did not know that. my heavens. let me get to some of your reporting. republicans are starting to sweat as trump takes ownership of the us economy. what's causing the most concern? i mean, is it is it the tariffs? mass layoffs or the persistent inflation? perhaps that candidate trump promised to fix? >> it's a number of things. there's, you know, sagging consumer sentiment. there's the proposed tariffs. there's federal layoffs that are going

the stock markets are a little bit subdued. there's new data indicating that americans are feeling a little bit less optimistic about the economy. so it's kind of a combination of all of these factors, combined with donald trump's promise, of course, to lower prices on day one. and so republican lawmakers are becoming more quietly concerned. and part of the reason that they're becoming more quietly concerned is, remember, this is donald trump's second term in office, but these republican lawmakers are going to have to go back to their constituents next fall, and they're going to be voted on in part by how americans are feeling about the economy. >> okay. shelby talcott. you know, we'll see you again hopefully next weekend. thank you so much. more questions about the death of legendary actor gene hackman and his wife actor gene hackman and his wife next. (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes.

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>> looking through evidence. >> they collected. >> evidence from. >> the home. >> they've also done a preliminary. >> autopsy. and they're. also awaiting toxicology. >> results. >> which. >> could take up to three months. the sheriff gave us a little. bit more indication about the growing theory. >> listen. >> it should be noted there were no apparent. >> signs of foul play in the early hours. >> of. >> thursday. february 27th, 2025. >> mr. hackman and. >> miss arakawa. >> were transported. >> to the office of the medical investigator. an autopsy was performed. >> initial findings noted. >> no external trauma to either individual. the manner and cause of death has not been determined. the official results of the autopsy and toxicology reports are pending. >> and so far, we've gotten a. >> little indication of what those toxicology reports may reveal. the sheriff says he spoke to the pathologist, who said that the couple did not die from carbon monoxide poisoning. so that just. deepens the mystery.

>> behind what happened. >> and here in ne mexico. >> the couple. >> although they were considered private, they were the fabric of this community. so this. town is reeling and many people just want answers. >> as to. >> what happened. >> understandably so. a lot of fans around the world are reeling as well from all this. dana griffin, thank you so much from santa fe, new mexico. coming up next, the fight that lies ahead over the budget and new reporting about a phone call one republican congresswoman got one republican congresswoman got from the wildlife series that started them all is back. join us every saturday morning on nbc for mutual of omaha's wild kingdom: protecting the wild. and celebrate conservation success stories. stream all episodes on peacock or nbc.com comes with digital threats. so turn on nordvpn and encrypt your online traffic. get 72% off nordvpn and up to one year for free.

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repeatedly pointed to the courts as being the critical check for trump's abuse of power. but is there confidence the administration will fully comply with any rulings? and if not, what happens then? >> i be shocked to find anyone who's confident that they'll comply. that's one of the one of the. >> most. >> terrifying parts of what's happening right now is the very those little moments when you hear the president or his supporters or. >> his staff. >> say the quiet part out loud. >> and we've heard a number. >> of times, including from the president himself, we might have to take a look at some of these judges. that sounds scary. and it also sounds not so subtle. it's an ominous it's an ominous warning for the democracy, because we do we rely on norms. we rely on systems that are reliant on people respecting the rule of law, respecting courts, judges and courts don't have militaries to enforce their law. they rely on the american

people, on our democracy to function with respect, with honor, and with a long view of things. and that's not how this president operates. >> so, brennan, republicans in congress, they are right now focused on the budget with the house and the senate. they are still at odds. each chamber says they won't accept the other's version. look, the house framework barely passed, in part thanks to pressure from president trump. can he strong arm enough lawmakers to get it through in the end? and which plan do you think will prevail? >> well, it's going to be a compromise. and yeah, there's the question is who is he strong arming here. the house plan would include doing tax reform and immigration and the whole agenda. but it has really, really steep spending cuts, particularly as it relates to medicaid. and president trump has said he doesn't want to touch medicaid other than potentially waste, fraud and abuse. the problem is the house plan imagines far more steep cuts into medicaid than just

waste, fraud and abuse. and i don't think the senate is ever going to accept something like that. and so there is a bit of a standoff here. i think both sides are right at this point. the house would never be able to accept what the senate has done, and the senate would never be able to accept what the house has done. at some point, of course, that has to change. i think the problem is that nobody really feels any pressure at this point. we are months and months and months away from the tax law expiring, so they're probably just going to argue with each other for a while. they're going to try to get through this government funding deadline that's coming up in a short amount of time and pick this back up. i still think that there's a very good chance that while the one bill approach, where everything is all in one bill is the favorite right now, i can see that falling apart and having to separate it where they move to that immigration bill first, and keep arguing about taxes and spending for the rest of this year. >> you think it's just gonna be a bunch of cars in a row? >> well, that's the whole lot of progress to get it. even even a

top line number, let alone the details of a spending bill. johnson doesn't want to have to fund the government in any meaningful way right now, because those are some of the toughest votes you ever have to take. i mean, he'd much rather do just a simple stopgap and say, you know, we're going to worry about this later. but, you know, the challenge is he's never been able to pass those on his own. and he always has to rely on democrats to get that done. and even in that situation, i don't think he wants to have to turn to democrats and have his members griping that once again, the minority is bailing out the majority party. >> so, jesse, while house republicans are pulling back on town halls after the backlash they've gotten, especially over elon musk and doge, one aide said lawmakers are being urged to avoid them all together while avoiding their constituents. just make it worse. i mean, especially as the number of federal employees keeps going up. >> well, that's the right question. will that work? i think that the challenge is it it is working most of the time

these days to just avoid conversations you don't want to have. the question is, will enough americans be focused on what's happening to show up to town halls, to show up to, you know, members of congress offices, to send letters to write? i do this i work in politics for a living, and it's hard for me to open my newsfeed day to day. and i think a lot of americans are just feel completely overwhelmed by what's happening. so i'm actually heartened to see how these town halls are going that people are showing up. now, as for the response of just trying to shut it down and discontinue them, i think that's telling. i think if you remember the affordable care act, there were some hot town halls that happened while that was being passed for democrats and republicans. but they happened. those conversations happened. it's part of democracy to make sure you're engaging, engaging your citizens. and the minute you stop doing that, you're denying the tenets of

democracy. >> let me get a quick answer from you, brian. i want to show folks what you've written that republicans in brandon. and i say, brian, sorry about that. republicans in congress have to get control of doge by taking their own jobs more seriously, saying if members continue to stand by as doge plunges deeper into the federal bureaucracy, congress would be sending a clear message to future presidents and perhaps even the courts, that the executive need not worry about congressional authority. what's it going to take for congressional republicans to take control, brendan? >> well, i think we got a chance to talk about this concept a bit last weekend before i published this. there it is, the job of congress to authorize all of the programs, not just that they exist, but they're supposed to be going in every few years and writing into actual law what they should be doing. people talk about the power of the purse as as spending money, but the power of the purse is also that authorizing, going in and directing very specifically what programs should do. and members of congress just sort of stop doing that. and it'siv