something i'm not totally sure would have helped insulate the american people from chinese economic warfare. it would have made you and me safer from xi jinping, hurting our economy. and i just think it's a pity that that has now, you know, gone to waste. >> what an amazing conversation. there are probably 50 more that come out of this book. what a great book. thank you for being with us. we'd love to continue the conversation with you. >> thanks, ali. >> edward fishman is an adjunct professor of international and public affairs at columbia university, author of the important book choke points american power in the age of economic warfare. all right, still to come on another hour of velshi the uk and france have agreed to work with ukraine on a ceasefire deal to end russia's war, filling a gap left open by donald trump after what can only be described as a diplomatic disaster in the oval office on friday. plus, as the trump white house moves to control and restrict the white house press pool. i'll talk to jim acosta, longtime white house correspondent who spent years holding trump to account. another hour of velshi starts right now. i begin this hour

with donald trump's economy and republicans plans, as they laid out in as they're laid out in a newly passed budget to slash the health care program that serves 1 in 5 americans. they're doing that in order to pay for tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the rich. that bill now heads to the senate, where republicans want to put up a smoke screen to obscure that enormous cost from the american people by using a budget gimmick which would reconstruct the way congress creates budget and balances debt. it helps me through that smoke screen. let's take a look at the numbers. these new tax cuts come in the form of extending the 2017 trump tax cuts, which expire at the end of this year for another ten years. that will cost an estimated $4.5 trillion with a t, which poses several important issues for republicans, including leaving almost no room in the budget for several of trump's other tax promises, including no taxes on tips or overtime, no social security benefit taxes, and making the tax cuts permanent. and much like they've had alternative facts in the first trump

administration. the solution to these issues for republicans comes in the form of alternative math. instead of putting the full cost of extending the tax cuts for ten years, $4.5 trillion on the books, they want to use an obtuse accounting method to simply make it disappear on paper. their argument is that since the tax cuts are already in place, the cost of extending them shouldn't count toward future budgets. okay, so that's like saying, since you spend $250 for groceries every week and you're going to keep doing that, let's just not count it as part of your household budget. and that's what we call nonsense. these tax cuts will add to the deficit. they will have to be paid for somehow. it's similar to the distorted logic that donald trump tried to use during his first term in the early days of the covid 19 pandemic, in arguing against widespread testing when he said, quote, when you test, you create cases. and of course, these tax cuts will mainly benefit the rich. as you can see from this budget model analysis from wharton. i want to start on the left of the

chart. people who make up to $35,000 a year will get an extra $330 per year under this new budget. those who make $107,000 a year will get about $5,000 in this budget. those who make more than $1 million a year, that's the top 1%, will make an extra $77,500 a year. and those in the top 0.1% who already make $4.7 million or more per year, the bar on the far right will get an extra $619,000 a year on average. okay, so let's look at what is getting cut to give these high earners their tax breaks. the house bill outlines deep spending cuts up to $2 trillion, most of which are going to come from programs that benefit those most in need, including calls for $330 billion in cuts to the education and workforce committee, which would affect student loans and investment in education. there's $230 billion in cuts to the agriculture committee, which

would most likely come from snap. what we used to know as food stamps, which provides benefits to low income americans and helps them buy groceries. but the biggest cuts come from the energy and commerce committee. $880 billion, nearly all of which would have to come from medicaid, which covers healthcare costs for 72 million low income americans and americans with disabilities, including the elderly and assisted living and nursing homes. it's the largest health insurance program in the nation, and now funds almost half of all births in this country. it's also the largest single source of funding for states, and it plays a particularly large role in rural america. joining me now is the democratic representative, kelly morrison of minnesota. she's a member of the house veterans affairs and small business committees. she is an obstetrician and gynecologist. representative, good to see you again. thank you for being with us. thank you. >> thanks so much for having. >> me, ali. good morning. >> i was talking to chris hayes an hour ago, and he said for all the hand-wringing about what democrats should be talking about and how they should be focusing on things, this one is

not a mystery. democrats seem to be united around the fact that we're going to have to message to people that they're cutting your medicaid. that's bottom line is your people's medicaid is getting cut to pay for wealthy people's tax cuts. it's not much more complicated than that. >> that's exactly right. and i've been trying to do my part to raise the alarm bells about this, ali, because this will be devastating to our entire country. we're talking about healthcare for more than 80 million americans, and that's across the life span. you know, we're talking about kids. we're talking about pregnant women. we're talking about older people. we're talking about people living with disabilities. and i think sometimes people don't know that they get their health insurance through medicaid. here in minnesota, we call it medical assistance in wisconsin. next door to us, they call it badger care. so this is a essential health care throughout the life span. and even if you don't get your health insurance through medicaid, you will be impacted by this, because these cuts will mean hospitals are going to close, clinics are going to close, long term care facilities

are going to close. and so the places that you get your health care will also be impacted. this is going to impact all of us. ali, i've been trying to make the case that this is a national security issue. >> you know, you say something interesting here where you say not everybody knows they get their their their, you know, health care through medicaid. and that's actually not a bad thing, right? when government works properly, you don't actually need to know. you just need to know you're just getting your health care. but in minnesota, where you're talking about medical assistance, 1.3 million minnesotans are on this, 42% of whom are children. so just help us understand, you started there with the idea that rural health centers might close, community health centers might close. but for the people who actually receive this, this what, these 1.6 million minnesotans, what does the what are these cutbacks mean to them? >> well, we're talking about 650,000 children here in minnesota. and, you know, in our in rural minnesota, more people are using medicaid to get their health insurance than in our urban areas. so this is going to impact kids and this is going to

impact older people. this is going to impact people living with disabilities. this will be devastating. our rural hospitals, as you well know, are already in deep trouble. this will be the final nail in the coffin for them if these cuts go through. >> let's talk a little bit about. >> to ali. sorry. go ahead. >> no, please. >> i was just going to say even even some of our republicans here in the state legislature in minnesota just sent a letter to our republican members of congress and to president trump begging them to not go through with these cuts because they know that these cuts will hurt their constituents. so i think republicans are starting to recognize the danger of these cuts. and i if i if there's any message that i can get across to my republican colleagues, is that health care is not just a budget line item that you can cross out. this is about people's lives. yes, this is about the future of our country. it's about the security of our nation. >> and every other modern western democracy understands that. in fact, we're the only one that that still struggles

with giving people their health care. chris made a really good point an hour ago. he said what the republican party has emerged into is not the party of the rich that it used to be. so this kind of thing, which may have made sense 25 years ago, where rich people get tax cuts, republicans can support that and poor people don't. as you mentioned, a lot of this is money that goes to rural areas. the republican demographic has has expanded and changed into people who are in some cases, medicaid recipients. this is going to hurt them as much. it doesn't matter what your party, what color your party is, this is going to hurt people across the board. >> that's right, that's right. and it and it begs the question again, why are we doing this? why are we even talking about doing this? and the reason is so that we can cut taxes for the very wealthiest among us and, and to give tax breaks to our largest corporations. we don't have to be doing this. we can talk about creating a responsible budget. that's something that needs to be done over the long term. you can't just slash things right now. and why again, i come back again and again. the only reason we're

doing this is to create tax cuts for the wealthiest among us. honestly, ali, it doesn't make sense. it's cruel, it's chaotic, and it's not doing anything to lower costs for americans. president trump said day one, he was going to lower costs for americans. cutting these benefits will only have the effect of making life more expensive for the american people. >> yes, it's a good point. you can find an alternative to expensive eggs. you can't find an alternative to your health care coverage going away. by the way, while i've got a doctor here, i do need to ask you about measles and vaccinations and some weird stuff coming out of the hhs, because you've got a better voice than most people on this because you're a physician. talk to me about this. >> oh, it's so upsetting. you know, we finally have a critical mass of democratic doctors in the house, and we formed the first ever democratic doctors caucus this year. one of the very first things we did was hold a press conference to talk about our concerns about rfk leading hhs. you know, we're seeing this deadly measles outbreak in texas in a community

that has a high percentage of unvaccinated kids and one child died. measles is one of the most contagious and one of the most preventable diseases in the world. and it's we've got someone running our health and human services department now who's been a vaccine denier, who has profited off of spreading myths and disinformation. and we're seeing the consequences there. so i would just encourage people to remember that vaccines are one of the greatest public health accomplishments of modern human history. get your kids vaccinated. it prevents disease and death. >> i think i saw that nine out of ten unvaccinated people who are exposed to measles will get it. and it's not like covid or the flu where you have variants of you're going to get measles, it's going to be bad. measles is a very, very dangerous thing for a child to get. kelly morrison. great to see you again. thank you for being with us. the democratic congresswoman kelly morrison of minnesota. all right. still ahead on the eu is calling for a new leader of the free world. and europe is scrambling as we speak to reform

alliances after donald trump's dramatic signing with russia over ukraine on friday. through decades of global alliances into question. plus, i'll speak with a journalist who embodies what it means to hold power to account my friend and former colleague jim acosta, about covering a president who's willing to take drastic measures to avoid accountability. and you might have heard that republicans are getting an earful about doge and trump's slash and burn government cuts at local town halls. but you have not yet seen if you haven't seen kansas republican roger marshall's response to a question about doj's impact on veterans. stick around, because veterans. stick around, because it's worth watching. (man) got one more antoine. (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪ (man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. serious health.

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pills.com to get this deal. it's friday plans pills.com. >> we're following a developing story in the middle east, where the fragile cease fire between israel and hamas appears to be in danger after phase one expired in the last 24 hours. late yesterday, prime minister benjamin netanyahu's office says it said it agreed to a new proposal that was suggested by president trump's special envoy to the middle east, steve witkoff. that proposal would extend phase one of the cease

fire deal through both ramadan and passover, the latter of which ends on april 20th. now, that supplemental proposal also includes a new additional release of hostages held by hamas, both alive and deceased. now, hamas has since rejected this extension, calling it, quote, a blatant coup against the cease fire deal and insisting that talks for phase two, which have been stalled for weeks, get underway swiftly. in response this morning, israel halted the entry of all goods and humanitarian aid into the gaza strip. also yesterday, secretary of state marco rubio announced he'd be using emergency authority to expedite the delivery of nearly $4 billion worth of military assistance to israel. this marks the second time that the trump administration has circumvented congress and declared an emergency to quickly approve weapons sales to israel, which biden. the biden administration also did multiple times. still ahead on velshi, the uk prime minister, keir starmer, called an emergency summit of global leaders today to address what he's calling a once in a

generation moment for european security. this, after donald trump upended generations of alliances on friday by publicly siding with russia's vladimir putin over ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky. i'll talk to the former president of estonia, one of many european countries that is seen as particularly vulnerable to russian expansion. if ukraine is allowed to fall. >> introducing mcafee. plus all in one protection that goes beyond your devices. >> it protects. >> you. your identity. >> and privacy. >> with mcafee plus. >> you can enjoy. >> life online. >> confidently because safety has a feeling. >> all its own. >> hi. >> i'm ellen, i'm portia. >> we're talking. >> to cameras that are in our living. >> room about kind science. >> i used to think the more money i spent on my skincare, the more effective it would be. >> the better. >> it would. >> be, the better i'd look. but it's. >> not true. with kind science, my skin feels cleaner. it feels more hydrated.

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today, starmer announced that britain, ukraine and france have agreed to work on a ceasefire plan to end the war in ukraine and present it to the united states. leaders are meeting today and according to the associated press, they are expected to discuss establishing a european military force to be sent to ukraine, something like a new nato, which the trump administration has also recently undermined. earlier today, starmer held a joint call with the leaders of the baltic states, estonia, latvia and lithuania about the efforts to bring an end to the war in ukraine. starmer's office said they agreed that europe must, quote, drive forward urgent action that will secure the best outcome which will be vital for europe's future security. end quote. for more on this, i'm joined by thomas ilves. he's the former president of estonia. before that, he served as the country's minister of foreign affairs. president elvis, good to see you. thank you for being with us. what a remarkable change of affairs. in just the last few days, we knew in the trump administration that we were headed toward an american, a shifting american stance toward russia. but but given what happened on friday, on one

hand, the world is very alarmed. on the other hand, european leaders are picking this up very quickly and trying to fix it. >> we don't have much of a choice, to. >> be frank. what are we going. >> to do? i mean, if. >> the united states. >> which has been since 1944 45, the basically the leader of. >> the west. >> and has. >> been the. >> guarantor of liberal democracy in the world. well, now we see that there's been quite a change. and in fact, liberal democracy seems to be more of a curse word among many people in the us. and rather, russia seems to be the model that people wish their wish to emulate. so it's i mean, there's no option but for europe to get

its act together. >> what is that you spent time with? you're obviously very familiar. the united states, you were an ambassador here. you were educated in the united states. i have had people in the last couple of days tell me that as a result of what happened on friday and forget the theatrics of it, just the break with with nato and liberal democracy, that that might not be reparable. can europe and canada do what it looks like keir starmer is trying to do? can they can they create a nato alternative? >> well, i don't think anyone wants to, but we don't have much of an option. the question is not so much whether we can, but how quickly we can. it takes a long time to, to ramp something up like that. that, in fact, would fulfill the functions currently fulfilled by by nato with the united states in it. certainly, there are big issues right now. for example, the

united states has provided the nuclear umbrella for europe. well, what's going to happen to that? will we see will france and the uk be able to fulfill that role? or will countries in europe realize that maybe they they as well should, should get nuclear weapons? so i mean, there are a lot of big issues here. of course, the other issue is defense spending. countries in my part of the world are way over the 2% required, and has have been for quite a while. on the other hand, much of the rest of europe has barely there, and many countries the largest country, germany, hasn't even reached there yet. so these are these are difficult issues to deal with. and then finally, i would say the third big issue is troops. people. countries aren't really don't have real

functioning armies the way they did during the cold war. and that will also take a long time to ramp up. >> i want to just ask my control room to pop up a map of nato, if we can, because you made some distinctions with some of the countries. obviously europe, the uk and france have nuclear weaponry. so this concept of a nuclear umbrella over europe would have to start with them. but countries like your own, the baltic states, poland, spend much more on military because you're right on that border. you were former soviet countries that that really don't want to see this happen. why were the baltic countries not included in this conversation? there was a separate conversation with keir starmer. any particular reason they were not involved while they were not at that summit? >> well, i find that rather bizarre, given that all of the six countries that border russia, three were not invited. and after all, it is russia that is, that is engaged in this war against ukraine. and the three countries are per capita, among

the biggest contributors to, to ukraine, both in military and nonmilitary assistance. so it as i wrote it, this oversight, if it is an oversight, is redolent, unfortunately, of the failure to mention south korea in 1950 by the by the us secretary of state as countries that the us would defend. i mean, this is the kind of mistake that could have far reaching repercussions. >> but it's that kind of thing that has people in estonia and latvia, lithuania and poland. it has them worried because they they do see that russia looks at these things, and they do see that if ukraine falls, it is a signal. it's you know, a lot of people say ukraine is not part of nato, so it shouldn't be defended the way nato is. but if russia expands into an independent country, a sovereign state, and gets away with it,

people in your part of the world think that russia could go farther. >> well, ukraine may not be in nato. it is a it is a european country. it is a liberal democracy with free and fair elections. that that's i mean, the membership in nato is kind of irrelevant. and in fact, it's worth keeping in mind. when the russia first invaded ukraine in 2014, joining nato wasn't even in the cards. countries, the people in ukraine were not interested in joining nato. so it's a whole different scene now since they were invaded. clearly, from the point of view of, i say, our countries, the three and others, we have been the ones that have been consistently right about russia's intentions. and several people, i mean, most notably the prime minister of finland after the invasion said we should have

listened to you. well, i mean that that was a brief moment. we continue to be countries that are probably more realistic and have a better understanding of russia's intentions than most, yet not to be present is something which, well, it's kind of strange, especially when there are many countries there that really don't know very much at all about what russia is doing. >> thomas, elvis, good to talk to you again. thank you for being with us this morning. thomas silvas is the former president of estonia. all right. still ahead, donald trump has never tolerated challenging questions from a free press. but this past week, he made bold and unprecedented new moves to avoid ever facing them again. after the break, i'll talk to a journalist who knows firsthand what it's like to be asking a question that this president does not want to answer. jim does not want to answer. jim acosta standing by. —hi! —hi! ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. ♪♪ with the chase mobile app,

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speech and its impact at home and abroad. the joint address to congress. special coverage tuesday at eight on msnbc. each week, veteran lawyers andrew weissman and mary mccord break down the latest developments inside the trump administration's department of justice. >> the administration doesn't. >> necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> republican lawmakers are learning firsthand that the trump administration slash and burn approach to shrinking the federal government and firing civil servants is not popular among their constituents. but there's growing evidence, including a brand new video i'm about to show you that they've not remotely figured out how to respond to that. back in their home districts, congressional republicans have been confronted by constituents with very pointed questions about everything from why elon musk has access to their sensitive data, to why musk is being allowed to indiscriminately eviscerate the federal workforce, to whether republicans are going to let him

slash social, social security and medicare. to those all sound like legitimate questions. but that doesn't appear that republicans are trying very hard to address them or even take them seriously. a republican aide told nbc news that party leaders advice this past week to rank and file gop members was to just stop holding in-person town halls. now, you may have seen some of these videos of town hall attendees or protesters asking pointed questions or registering complaints to republican lawmakers. but there's a new one that i want you to see. it's from a town hall held by the republican senator, roger marshall of kansas yesterday at a hospital in rural western kansas. now, according to local news reports, the room was only meant to hold about 20 people, but about twice as many showed up. again, this is a rural community. about 2000 people live in this town. it's nearly a four hour drive from wichita. more than five hours from kansas city. i want you to watch what happens in this video when senator marshall is asked, asked about those cuts, particularly those that have an impact on the jobs of military

veterans. >> i'm a guy who breathe. i'm a conservative democrat. >> and you. >> don't find very. >> many of us, right? but there is very, very much. the things that they're wanting to do. cut the fraud and waste in government. i believe that those are very laudable things to do, and i fully support that. but i think that the way that we are going about it is so wrong. yes. unintended consequences. yes. what you're doing right now, what the government is doing right now as far as cutting out those jobs, a huge percentage of those people. and i know you care about the veterans. the veterans. yes. and that is a

damn shame. >> yes, yes. >> that is a damn. i'm not a democrat, but i'm worried about the veterans. man. yes, sir. thank you. all right. well, i yield to one of my elders, and i appreciate his comments. i think it's a great. i'm not going to. we don't have time for anyone to stand up. i do got two more commitments today. appreciate everybody making the drive out. and god bless america. thank you. >> thank you. our our god our our our. you. thing. we're going topiith yo buddy. right. to vote you out. >> all right i know that was a long video, but i needed you to see the whole thing because you saw that the senator, roger marshall, just left. he abruptly ended the town hall. rather than answer a question about government cuts affecting military veterans in his state. and as you can see in here, the people in attendance were not impressed. senator marshall, walking out of boos from that small crowd and the promise to

vote him out. in a statement to local news, marshall's office said it was democratic operatives who sabotaged that town hall and went on, quote, real kansans overwhelmingly support president trump's initiative, shrinking the size of the federal government and firing career bureaucrats. marshall won his seat in 2020 with 53% of the vote statewide in rural logan, logan county, where that town hall took place, where he walked out of a room full of constituents who were voicing their concerns about drastic cuts to government jobs and programs in that county. he won 80% of the vote in 2020. so i guess we'll find out what real kansans think about doj's cuts and trump's priorities, and roger marshall's answers to their questions in 2026, when he's up for reelection. coming up, as donald trump continues to attack the media and seize control of who is allowed to cover his presidency, i'll speak with jim acosta, former white house correspondent, about why being white being a check on trump's power has never been trump's power has never been more important. nature knows best.

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just begun. >> since the white house effectively seized control of the press pool from the white house correspondents association on tuesday. we've increasingly seen some of the most dependable and nonpartisan journalistic institutions, including the associated press and reuters, denied access to cover the covering the president. that includes this morning, when the ap was turned away from the press pool, traveling with the president in favor of reporters from far right conservative outlets real america's voice and the daily wire. the president of the white house correspondents association released a statement announcing that the group will no longer distribute pool reports from the white house's now hand-picked correspondents. the statement reads in part, quote, in a free country, leaders must not be able to choose their own press corps. end quote. the ability for journalists to ask tough questions of the president of the united states is vital to our democracy. but donald trump, of course, has consistently shown his disdain for tough questions from people he perceives to be unfriendly. i want to take you back to 2018,

just after the midterm elections, to this exchange with then cnn chief white house correspondent jim acosta. >> your campaign had an ad showing migrants climbing over walls and so on. >> but they weren't actors. >> they're not going to be doing they. >> weren't actors. well, no, it was true. do you think they were actors? they weren't actors. they didn't come from hollywood. these were these were people. this was an actual you know, it happened a few days ago, and they're. >> hundreds of miles away, though there are hundreds and hundreds. >> of miles away. that's not an invasion. honestly, i think you should let me run the country. you run cnn, and if you did it well, your ratings. let me ask if i may ask one question. >> mr. president, if i may. >> ask the question, are you worried that's enough, that's enough, that's. >> enough. >> that's enough. >> pardon me, ma'am, mr. >> president, that's enough. >> mr. president, i. >> had one other question. >> if i may ask, on on the russia investigation, are you concerned that that you may have. >> i'm not concerned about anything with the russian investigation because it's a hoax. are you. that's enough.

put down the mic, mr. >> president, are you worried about indictments coming down in this investigation? >> thank you. >> mr. president. >> i'll tell you what. cnn should be ashamed of itself having you working for them. you are a rude, terrible person. you shouldn't be working for cnn. go ahead. >> i think that's unfair. >> a very rude person. the way you treat sarah huckabee is horrible, and the way you treat other people are horrible. you shouldn't treat people that way. go ahead and go ahead. go ahead. >> in jim's defense, i've traveled with him and watched him. he's a diligent reporter who busted. >> i'm not a big fan of yours either, so i understand, to be honest. >> so let me ask you a question if i can. you repeatedly. >> said you are the best. >> mr. president. you repeatedly over the course of. >> just sit down, please. mike pompeo. well, when you when you report fake news. no. when you report fake news, which cnn does a lot, you are the enemy of the people. >> now, you said it all there. there's donald trump throwing peter alexander under the bus.

that's what happened in trump's first term when he was confronted with questions he didn't like from people like jim acosta. this time, he appears poised to eliminate the tough questions altogether by banishing reporters from his presence. who might dare to ask one the man you just saw in that clip, jim acosta, joins me now. he's the former chief white house correspondent for cnn these days. he's an independent journalist. he's the host of the jim acosta show on substack, youtube and apple podcasts. he's the author of the important book the enemy of the people a dangerous time to tell the truth in america. and he's a he's a former colleague of mine and an old friend. jim, nice to see you, my friend. it's been many years since you and i have had a chance to talk on tv. >> yes it has. it's great to see you again, ali. >> that was a there was a lot in that clip, which is why i needed to play it. because you did say enemy of the people. and that's the distinction, right? you are whatever you want to call it. a thorn in the, a thorn in the side, pain in the, whatever. whatever you want to call it. that's what your job is. your job is to hold people to account. i had somebody tweet this morning to say, fine, you

shouldn't be covering the white house. you should be covering regular people and covering what's going on in the street. but it's really important to hold leaders to account no matter what country you're in. >> yeah, that's absolutely right, ali. i mean, i tell folks all the time, you know, the press, we're not the enemy of the people. we're defenders of the people, and we're here to hold their feet to the fire. and one of the reasons why donald trump behaves that way, he's still behaving that way is because, one, he can't handle the hard questions. and two, there's just a part of him that thinks we the people don't have the right to ask these kinds of questions. and he's and he's just wrong on both counts. and, ali, you've been doing this for a long time. you know what? what we have to do, we have a job to do and we're going to continue to do it. and for the folks over at the white house right now doing what we do for a living, i mean, my advice to them is to stand firm. stand your ground. >> yeah. you are writing about this exclusion of certain people from the pool, and most regular ameran are not not really clear on what the pool does, why it's important, but it's this, you know, when you got to go into a small space, like an

airplane or you're traveling with the president or the oval office where all the reporters can't come in, we rely on these people from different news organizations. you may not watch them on a regular basis. msnbc viewers get information from a fox reporter who's in the pool, because there's an agreement amongst you reporters that you will report the information accurately if you're part of that pool, when you remove people from that, you're taking control of something the state should not have control over. >> yeah, that's absolutely right. i mean, look at what happened to me after that exchange you just played back in 2018. the white house at that time took my press pass away, and we had to take donald trump to court to get it back. and it was a trump appointed judge who gave it back to me. and, you know, i think that you might see the same sort of thing this time around. i mean, first of all, we have to say, you know, we're not the most popular people in the world, as you said, pain in the. i've been called lots of things, ali. i'm sure you have as well. it goes with the territory. if you want to be liked, go be a veterinarian, as i like to tell folks. but, you know, listen, the press pool is a very

important institution. over at the white house. you have the networks, the television networks, trading places every day as to who's going to be in the oval office, who's going to be on air force one with the president. you have print outlets like the new york times and the washington post, and then you have important institutions like the associated press who have been kicked out of the oval office, kicked off of air force one, because they won't do something as silly as referring to the gulf of mexico as the gulf of america, something that donald trump just made up off the top of his head. i mean, you know, to me, we just shouldn't be in a situation where we're kicked out of the press pool because we won't succumb to the warped imagination of the wannabe autocrat in the oval office. and i was glad to see the associated press take him to court. and my guess is and time when this makes its way through the process, a judge and perhaps a trump appointed judge will say that the white house can't get away with this. >> the a lot of people get their news from sources that they don't know they're getting it from. so you just mentioned the wire services. bloomberg, reuters, associated press putting aside the fact that many of us, as journalists use the associated press style guides for how we determine how we say

things or what we put on the screen, but, but, but that stuff makes it into your local coverage without you actually knowing what the source of that reporting was. that's the danger here. it's not it's not donald trump calling you and peter alexander rude and things like that, because at least that's out there in the open. it's this insidious removal of, of press passes of, of access to, to the presidency. that's i think, the more dangerous part, at least your stuff plays out in real life. and people get to opine about whether they think jim acosta should get his press pass or not. you're going to just see coverage disappear. yeah. >> no, there's no question about it. and listen, ali, you and i both know all too well the ap is a critical part of the free flow of information in american society. they have reporters and i think all 50 states. they have reporters in some 100 countries around the world. i think billions of people see their product and they're a cooperative. it's not like they're out there making tons of money. they're here for the journalism. and keep in mind what took place the other day

over at the white house, according to andrew feinberg of the independent, the white house almost let a representative from the tass, russian state media news agency, into the pool spray and not the associated press or reuters. and that was also confirmed by a reuters reporter over there at the white house. and so what are we doing here in this country where you have the white house, you have press officials whose salaries are paid for with our tax dollars. they're letting in tass. they're letting in the russian media agency, but not the associated press. i mean, this is just lunacy. and it just goes back to, you know, donald trump just having incredibly thin skin when it comes to taking the hard questions. he's just never been very good at it. ali. and i think you and i are both are longtime observers of this. i think he wants the press to sort of function in the way that the tabloids did in new york when he was a real estate magnate in, in manhattan. and that's just not how it works in washington. we're here to dig. we're here to

get information. we're here to ask the hard questions. and honestly, it's why the first amendment is there. and he can't just throw that out the window willy nilly and have just, you know, fawning propagandists and sycophants in the oval office with them. i mean, imagine if you just had a bunch of people in the oval office with him asking questions like the guy the other day who was saying to president zelensky, why didn't you wear a suit? yeah. imagine. yeah. imagine if you just had a handful of people doing that sort of thing. what would be the reaction from the american people? they would think this is like the muppet show or something. they would just find it to be sheer lunacy. it just wouldn't make any sense. >> they get used to it over time. that's the danger, right? because because there are governments who do this, and then you get used to the idea that the these press conferences, not press conferences, they're a parade of the, you know, the achievements and accomplishments of the dear leader. stay right where you are, my friend. i'm going to take a quick break, pay the take a quick break, pay the bills, and we'll if you're frustrated with occasional bloating or gas, your body's giving you signs.

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years, so i don't know that donald trump yelling at him is or j.d. vance yelling at him is the biggest deal. but experts tell me this may be an irreparable breach, that what is what happened on friday is a is a rupture in a world order that we've been familiar with for 80 years. >> yeah. i mean, i did a podcast on this on substack on friday, wrote a piece about it over the weekend. i mean, you know, i think watching what unfolded on friday was was a difficult moment, i think, for a lot of americans. and because it's just not who we are, we're not the kind of country that turns its back on, on friends, turns its back on countries fighting for democratic freedoms. and that's exactly what took place in the oval office on friday, to see donald trump and jd vance berating volodymyr zelensky and accusing him of not thanking the united states, which hello, fact check. he's thanked the united states dozens all. >> the time. >> he's all the time over and

over again. and so i mean but but it was almost like and we're seeing this a lot during these early weeks of the second trump administration, almost everything the president says or the vice president says or top administration officials say sounds like talking points over on fox. it just comes out of the conservative, conspiracy theory laden ecosphere that just leads them down the path of sort of alice in wonderland stuff. and, you know, it just felt like, you know, volodymyr zelensky was was pulled into that. he went down the rabbit hole with trump and, and jd vance. and this is somebody who has been courageously leading his country after it was invaded by the russians. yes. it was invaded by the russians three years ago. and, you know, i that's what pained me almost the most in hearing that reporter asking zelensky, you know, why he wasn't wearing a suit like, hello, have you have you seen elon musk wearing his dark maga hat in the oval office? did anybody have any questions about that? you know, this is serious

stuff and you need serious people in the room asking real questions. >> yes, that that might have actually been a saving moment when somebody gets a question like that. and it's a real question that holds the leaders to account, as opposed to a stupid question about why he's not wearing a suit. i want to read from what you wrote on substack about this. it's titled this is not who we are. trump's shameful repudiation of zelensky was much more than an embarrassing moment in american diplomacy, on par with the president's disgraceful embrace of vladimir putin in helsinki. it was not just a televised ex-communication of a key u.s. ally fighting for its survival. this was a signal across the oceans that the united states of america, proud home of the greatest generation that stormed the beaches of normandy to defeat the nazis, was no longer in the business of saving the world. instead, trump will trade vague offers of security for the natural resources of vulnerable, weaker nations. rare earth minerals in the case of ukraine, this is the there's two parts of the disappointment. one is that the world order that's breaking, but the second is american pride. we may not have gotten it

right since the storming of normandy, but americans have tried. they have tried to be a leader of the free world. it feels like on friday we almost stopped trying. >> yeah. and it felt like just the ship was sailing off. into unchartered waters. we're not going to be there for europe anymore. i mean, what what is that? is that the trump doctrine? because if you talk to a lot of experts about this, people like anne applebaum and so on, you know, that leads to war in europe. if the united states is just going to let the russians roll into kyiv and take over that country, obviously vladimir putin is not going to stop there. he's going to want to poke and prod in other parts of europe, and maybe even tempt the nato alliance to push back. if he goes into one of the baltic states, one of the weaker nations in the baltic states. and so, you know, to me it is playing with fire. and, you know, maybe, maybe they will put

the pieces back together again. perhaps they'll get this deal going again. it sounds as though the brits, the french, are trying to get trump and zelensky back at the negotiating table. but what took place on friday almost felt like a stunt. and a lot of people are saying maybe it was a stunt. this was just trump playing to the cameras. yeah. and so if you're in a situation like that, if you're zelensky, how do you negotiate in a situation like that? it is very, very difficult. and i know, ali, you've done some great reporting over in ukraine to think about what the people of that country have gone through over the last three years, and to see the president just repudiate their leader in the way that he did, it must be just incredibly disheartening. and it raises a lot of worries as to what's to come. >> jim. >> it's nice to see you again, my friend. thank you. jim acosta is a former chief white house correspondent and old colleague of mine and a friend that does it for me. thank you for watching. stay right where you are. inside with jen psaki begins right now. >> well. >> i've been in my. >> fair share of oval. >> office ms.