the pieces back together again. perhaps they'll get this deal going again. it sounds as though the brits, the french, are trying to get trump and zelensky back at the negotiating table. but what took place on friday almost felt like a stunt. and a lot of people are saying maybe it was a stunt. this was just trump playing to the cameras. yeah. and so if you're in a situation like that, if you're zelensky, how do you negotiate in a situation like that? it is very, very difficult. and i know, ali, you've done some great reporting over in ukraine to think about what the people of that country have gone through over the last three years, and to see the president just repudiate their leader in the way that he did, it must be just incredibly disheartening. and it raises a lot of worries as to what's to come. >> jim. >> it's nice to see you again, my friend. thank you. jim acosta is a former chief white house correspondent and old colleague of mine and a friend that does it for me. thank you for watching. stay right where you are. inside with jen psaki begins right now. >> well. >> i've been in my. >> fair share of oval. >> office meetings. but

fortunately none quite like. >> that one. >> most of the world has been reacting in. >> horror to the way. >> trump and vance berated ukraine's president. >> on friday. >> but not the kremlin. >> this morning, they said it all aligns with their vision. >> david remnick is the editor. >> in chief of the new yorker, and served as the washington post's moscow bureau chief. michael mcfaul is the former u.s. ambassador to russia. and both of them joined me live in just a moment. plus, i'll ask senator mark kelly about his republican colleagues who are twisting themselves into pretzels to defend donald trump in this moment, as one of them actually decides to speak out. okay. well, we saw on friday in the oval office is one of those things. even if you had a crazy week, you almost definitely heard about, even if you don't follow the news closely, my bet is you heard something or saw something about what happened between donald trump, jd vance and vladimir zelensky. lots of people were at fault for good reason. vladimir putin was

delighted. which tells you something. but it was something that the whole world kind of stopped and watched in the aftermath of that horror show. the uk and france felt the need to develop their own peace plan with ukraine that they will present to us. the front page of one of the biggest british conservative newspapers called trump a bully who is no longer welcome for his state visit. and here at home, protesters in vermont lined up to greet vice president jd vance, carrying signs with slogans like compassion is not transactional democracy, not fascism. and my personal favorite go ski in russia, jd. that's creative. but hey, i guess at least someone was happy. kremlin spokesperson dmitry peskov came out and said today that trump's foreign policy, quote, largely coincides with our vision, a statement, by the way, that would have made the skin crawl of former republican leaders like john mccain and mitt romney and many others. well, let's just back up for a second, because there were some things that happened before friday, before that meeting and

friday that just gave you a sense it was going to be a bonkers day at the white house. i just want to focus on one of them, just for a moment, because i think it's telling, because earlier in the day, we started getting reports from journalists at the white house that a member of russian state media had gained access to that meeting in the oval office. we also learned that reuters and the associated press were left out. now, just to be clear, to put a fine point on this one, that means an outlet that literally takes direction from the kremlin briefly had access to a meeting between the sitting u.s. president and the president of the country that their bosses invaded. it also means two global wire services, known for reporting straight news around the world were denied access. and we know that decision to kick out the ap and reuters was made by the white house. and they made that decision, despite the fact that these outlets have been permanent members of what's known as the protective pool, which is basically a smaller group of reporters who are always there to witness things the president does to represent the larger press corps, no matter how big or how small the

events are. now, the pool exists to ensure the media, and therefore the public, is protected from missing out on an expected news story. this dates all the way back to eisenhower. i mean, the pool was there for the assassination attempt against ronald reagan. it was there on nine over 11. and the pool was there. when the president is on vacation, on any travel whatsoever. they're there for everything and they're there for everything. because at any moment, news can happen. and having journalists present to ask questions of the president is very much in the public interest. but the trump administration obviously sees things very differently. they don't want outlets. they're focused on reporting the actual news. they want outlets that will report mainly, only primarily the version of the news they want, the way they want it reported. it sounds remarkably russian, by the way, doesn't it? and so on friday, it looked like the ap and reuters were out and a russian propaganda outlet was in. now, after that news broke, the white house claimed that this russian reporter was not on the approved list of reporters and said they

were being kicked out. and do mistakes happen with pools? i can tell you they definitely happen with pools. sure they do, but it feels like one heck of a coincidence given the context, doesn't it? i mean, the only reporter who was able to sneak in happened to be from a russian outlet during donald trump's meeting with the president of ukraine. again, consider the context because a russian reporter being accidentally let in while ap and reuters are kicked out is also right in line with everything they were doing before friday. i mean, it's also in line with what they were doing back in 2017. remember when trump met with russia's foreign minister and ambassador in the white house, and just so happened to reveal highly classified information to them? well, the only reason we saw images of that meeting was because a russian photographer took photos that were released by the very same outlet that was briefly in the oval on friday. what we saw on friday was also in line with what they were doing earlier in the week. to take a look at this headline from tuesday, white house moves to pick the pool reporters who cover trump. again, that means choosing much friendlier outlets

to cover the president. and i guess for a moment on friday, it could have also meant looking the other way. while russian state media wandered into the oval office. when you try to control the media like that, when you try to control who is covering your events at all, you're pretty obviously trying to avoid scrutiny and just put on a show instead. so on friday, donald trump put on his show, and even though that russian reporter was discovered and kicked out, trump's buddy vladimir putin still got the show that he wanted. because over the course of nearly an hour, donald trump and jd vance berated the president of a country that is fighting for its survival and unloaded talking points that the kremlin could have scripted themselves in the oval office for countless meetings between u.s. presidents and world leaders and many other meetings. and i have never seen anything remotely close to what we saw on friday, the very end of the show. trump reminded us what it was all about. >> this is going to be great television, i will say that.

>> this is going to be great television. there it is. it's all a show. never mind all the people in ukraine. never mind the europeans. and maybe, as some have speculated, that show is some kind of premeditated ambush. a setup cloaked as a pool spray, an excuse to abandon ukraine. or maybe that show was designed for trump to seem rough and strong by screaming at zelensky, even though real strength is, of course, not bullying and bigfooting. it's standing up for what's right. that's actual strength. or maybe that show was just a big old gift to his pal vladimir putin. maybe that was it. maybe it was all the above. but whatever the intention, it's clearly part of an ongoing effort by the trump administration to control the narrative, to avoid accountability, to only let the public see a sliver. and it's all what they want them to see. and i want you to keep that in mind when you listen to this exchange from friday's meeting. >> why don't you wear a suit? >> yeah. why don't you wear a

suit? you're the highest level in this country's office, and you refuse to wear a suit. just want to see if you own a suit. >> that was actually a thing that happened. that is footage from the. from the press, from the event in the oval office on friday. and that hard hitting question came from a host from the far right cable channel real america's voice. his name is brian glenn. and for what it's worth, he also happens to be dating republican congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, who congratulated him for that question about the suit. now, by choosing to put that guy in that room and by allowing a russian reporter to find his way in the room earlier, however, that happened. that's exactly the kind of question trump wanted to hear. that's exactly the show that donald trump wanted to put on. david remnick is the editor in chief of the new yorker and the former moscow bureau chief for the washington post. michael mcfaul is the former u.s. ambassador to russia. and they both join me. now, i can't think of two better people to help us understand what just happened on friday. let me start with you, david. i mean, i, i want to

start by just getting your reaction to what you saw on friday. you've covered how many meetings in the united states, in moscow and other places around the world. what were you thinking when you were watching that? >> i've never seen anything like this. it's absolutely unprecedented. and carried out if this if this goes in the direction that it seems to be going, this meeting will be remembered as a moral and a strategic disaster initiated by the president of the united states and his vice president. and it had all the uplift and spectacle of a mugging. this was this didn't happen by accident. vice presidents and presidents don't don't pull off something like this spontaneously. they waited to the last question. it was apropos of almost nothing. the vice president got immediately in the face of zelensky and asked him, demanded

why didn't he thank him enough? and zelensky had thanked the united states over and over again, including in this meeting in private and in public. it was under totally false pretenses. it was a performance of the most of a vile kind. and what are the consequences? the consequences are the possibility that the united states, after 80 years, is going, in a sense, to switch sides to the autocracy, to the to the dictator vladimir putin, and leave behind europe to its own devices, not just ukraine, but europe itself. thankfully, in europe today, you've seen the leadership in france and in britain do its best to clean up after the elephant. the united states, it is a it's a shameful spectacle and i have a hard time believing that it will end there as, just as something of little consequence. it's going to have great ramifications. >> and i want to get into the substance of this, what i think is so important to discuss.

ambassador mcfaul, though i think we've heard the speculation, david just mentioned that it was a set up. it felt like a bit of a setup. what do you think? and to what end? what do you think they're trying to achieve here? >> well, they. >> were trying to achieve. >> messaging to their base. >> vice president vance is. >> running for president. just as he did. >> at the. >> munich security conference ten days ago or so, i was there. that speech was a campaign speech for his base and insulted the entire continent of europe. and this was designed for that. and this this incredibly insulting. why don't you thank us again with david? i just i it was so embarrassing to me as an american. i just want to say that publicly. this is not the way our leaders have ever behaved. i've been in meetings with our former boss, jen, that got heated from time to time with leaders, including with russian leaders, but it was behind closed doors. and that's the way diplomacy is supposed to take place. and the fact that

this took place with the cameras rolling suggests that it was for the cameras. and one last thing on the. thank you. why don't you thank us? i want to remind everybody that this team, trump and vance, has done absolutely nothing for president zelensky and the ukrainian people. the american people. yes. thank you, thank you, thank you. you said that a thousand times. but what have they done? they've told him he has to give up his territory. they told him he can't join nato. they told him americans will not participate in a peacekeeping force. they have not given new assistance. and by the way, the last package of assistance, they're party delayed for six months while ukrainians were being slaughtered on the battlefield. and senator vance voted against that package. so why in god's name should they be be seeking a thank you from president zelensky? now, i want to say it ended badly for everyone. i think the ukrainians regret this

meeting, too. i hope they can get it back on track. but i'm not optimistic because i don't think fundamentally trump cares about a peace deal. he cares about his relationship with putin. whether there's peace in ukraine or not is entirely a secondary or tertiary concern of his. >> david, let me ask you about the kind of the what next of this? all because there are reports over the course of the last 24 hours, the europeans are going to present a plan. obviously, the united states has long been a huge provider of security equipment, financial assistance. what are what are the european? what are they? what do they have the capacity to do and what gaps can they fill? will they still be big ones here? >> well, the europeans have great wealth, and it's quite possible that they're going to kick in even more. and it should be said that they have contributed, contributed mightily in the effort to hold off the russians so far. it shouldn't be discounted at all. and the united states also, we

haven't mentioned why there was a meeting in the first place in washington. the trump administration was basically extorting the ukrainians, saying, we want half your mineral wealth. nice country you got there. that deal ultimately did not get signed, not least because zelensky was kicked out of the white house unceremoniously. it's just one humiliation after another. and this, this. it should be noted that volodymyr zelensky will be counted in the annals of history as an immense hero and not just a hero to his own people, the ukrainians, but a hero to what we call the west, the free world. he is right. he never demanded that the united states send troops. he never demanded the europeans send troops. he asked for as much assistance as he could get, even as he was watching tens of thousands of his citizens being killed on the battlefield. and the other dynamic here is the opponent of

vladimir putin has seen hundreds of thousands. we don't know the exact casualty rate, but certainly several hundred thousand have been killed and wounded and combined, we don't know. again, we don't know the exact numbers, but the damage to his people is immense. and here's the punchline. he does not care. he is willing to put as much meat into the meat grinder as it takes to subdue and conquer ukraine, because he sees that as his historical duty. he wants to reestablish a greater russia in the 19th century sense, and he's willing to let as much blood flow as possible. that's the dynamic here. >> ambassador mcfaul, we kind of saw i mean, dmitri peskov, you're very familiar with him. i'm very we're all very familiar with him, the three of us. but he came out and said today that the trump administration's foreign policy largely coincides with our vision. that, to me was

a pretty chilling statement to hear from him, a longtime spokesperson for vladimir putin. how did you read those comments? how should people read them? >> i'm so glad you put that up and acknowledge that. yes, i used to deal with mr. peskov. he used to talk about you, jen, back in the day. >> he says hello there, dimitri, if you're watching. yes. >> he chooses his words very, very carefully. they all do. ushakov lavrov there chose his words carefully and note what he said. he didn't say. oh, i'm glad that u.s. russian relations are on to a new, new footing based on win win outcomes, right? the kind of normal diplomatic thing you might hear even from, like, chinese leaders. no, what he said is trump is adopting our side, our worldview. in other words, he's talking about capitulation. we're coming over to their side. and i think this is really important for the american people to focus on. so let's just even leave aside what's

good for ukraine or not. and let's talk about what's good for america. what happened on friday was not good for the united states of america. it isolates us. you know, it's not america. great. it's america alone. and this play to try to be friends with vladimir putin will end in disaster, because putin has no love for our country. he hates our country. he wants to destroy our country. he wants to destroy the free world that david was talking about. and he sees trump as a useful instrument for that. he's not going to abandon xi jinping. this crazy idea that some are floating, he's going to come to our camp. that is entirely hogwash. and i think the american people need to understand just how dangerous this is for us, not just for ukraine, but for america's long term national security interests. >> david remnick and ambassador michael mcfaul a little darker conversation, but important for people to hear. thank you so much for joining me this morning. coming up, senator mark

kelly joins me after meeting face to face with president zelensky this week. but first, one of the indelible images from friday's fiasco, secretary of state marco rubio sitting in silence as trump and vance berated a us ally. my, how things have changed for a guy who used to talk so tough about who used to talk so tough about russia. i'll explain when we baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance. baby: liberty! biberty: hey kid, it's pronounced "biberty." baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: bi-be-rty! baby: biberty! biberty: and now she's mocking me. very mature. mom: hey, that's enough you two! biberty: hey, i'm not the one acting like a total baby. all sorts of mom: she's two. only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: liberty.

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for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. indelible images from donald trump's friday oval office meltdown is this picture of his secretary of state, marco rubio. and i cannot help but wonder, as he sunk into that sofa, what on earth was going on in his head? i mean, trump and vance gleefully tried to humiliate president zelensky in front of reporters right in front of him. remember, this is a guy who, as a senator and chairman of the senate intelligence committee, used to be a pretty staunch russia hawk. the rubio we used to know would

surely have had a lot to say about all of this. there's really no better way to show all of you that than using rubio's own words to rebut some of trump's most outrageous statements from the past two weeks. for example, trump recently blamed ukraine for the war, claiming they should have never started it. and of course, that's completely wrong. but i'll let marco rubio set the record straight. >> ukraine is not invading russia. it's defending itself from a russian invasion. >> and that principle of self-defense is, i think, a fundamental one. >> trump also seems to think that america's geographic location will shield us from war in europe. he repeatedly points out that, quote, we have a big, beautiful ocean as separation. but that kind of isolation is thinking was discredited a very long time ago, including by his own secretary of state, marco rubio. >> our nation is never isolated from the world. what happens across the planet can have a greater impact on your family than what happens down the

street. >> we also saw trump get a lot of attention last week when he baselessly accused president zelensky of being a dictator. but equally notable was that trump refused to say the same of vladimir putin. he wouldn't call putin a dictator because, as he claimed, quote, i don't use those words lightly. so once again, here's marco rubio to clear things up. >> vladimir putin not a president. he's a dictator. we'll have to deal with him. but that doesn't mean i don't recognize him for what he is, which is a thug and a tyrant. >> really? can't argue with him there. and that brings us to the biggest elephant in the room of all, which is trump's strange affinity for vladimir putin. more than once this week, trump bizarrely defended putin, claiming that they went through a lot together during the investigation into russia's election interference, which trump still calls a phony witch hunt. in other words, it's the same old song and dance. despite marco rubio's hope that trump would one day come to his senses and see putin for who he is.

>> you've said before that. >> you think that once trump finds out who he is, that he would change his opinion. do you understand why he thinks positively? >> i've never discussed the issue with him, but again, i think the information is there. and once people learn the true nature of vladimir putin, my hope is that some of he'll change his opinion and his views with regards to it. >> who i hope is he'll change his opinion and his views with regard to it. well, secretary rubio, it's been eight years and counting. and clearly trump's opinion of putin has not changed. what has changed, it seems, is you, marco rubio, because senator rubio is now secretary rubio in the second trump administration. and what he claimed to believe for years is completely at odds with the administration's current posture. it's not clear whether he even cares. i mean, i can't read his mind, obviously, but maybe he's given up on america as a leader on the global stage.

maybe he's given up on opposing authoritarian regimes, given up on democracy and defending alliances like nato. but if secretary rubio does still believe even just one iota of what he said as a senator over the many years, that has good reason to feel uncomfortable right now. and if he does still believe in any of those principles, begs the question of what he's doing in this administration in the first place. senator mark kelly served with marco rubio on the intelligence committee. he met with president zelensky this with president zelensky this week, and he joins me next. ♪ (male vo) big. (female vo) small. essential. (male vo) big. small. essential. (female vo) big. small. (male vo) essential. (female vo) grande. (male vo) pequeño. (female vo) esencial. no matter what business you're in, verizon business has the network and solutions you need to power it. mean, look at that

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office, some of those very same republicans who had been all smiles and handshakes quickly changed their tune. senator wicker, who had just last month said that vladimir putin should be imprisoned if not executed, tried to quietly delete his post touting his attendance. quick note to the senator the internet doesn't forget, it turns out. and then there's senator lindsey graham, who was literally posting posing for pictures with zelensky earlier in the day and who then ran to the cameras after the oval office spectacle and bizarrely attacked zelensky, even suggesting that he should resign. this is the same senator who just two weeks ago, said that the best way to contain vladimir putin was to arms to the teeth. man, what a difference one blow up in the oval office can make. and joining me now is democratic senator mark kelly of arizona. he's a member of the armed services and intelligence committees. and he was part of the group of bipartisan senators who met with president zelenskyy on friday. senator kelly, thank

you so much for joining me. i think we're all reflecting on friday and that meeting. it was like nothing i've ever seen in my time working for two presidents, watching republican republicans in that oval office. but i wanted to start by just asking you about that meeting with zelensky. you attended, attended by a bipartisan group. what was that like, and what was the response in the private room to him? >> well, jen, i think. >> we all have a little bit of ptsd even though we weren't in the oval office meeting. right. i think all of us, you know, a lot of people across the country, collectively, i the contrast between the two meetings was quite remarkable with zelensky that morning. i think there were about ten, maybe a dozen of us democrats and republicans. it was very constructive. i would i would say one of the most interesting things about it was that at the beginning of the meeting, the chairman of the armed services committee, roger wicker, senator from mississippi, asked the cameras to leave. and then we

got down to business. so lenski, as he always is, this guy, is thankful to the american people, to the united states congress, to the president. so it was constructive. not a single one of us expected what happened in the oval office to happen. and i have to say that was a mistake. i think it was a miscalculation by the president. bullying an ally of ours makes us look weak. and when we are weak, we are less safe. the american people should make no mistake about that. what happened in the oval office was a complete and utter disaster, and it puts us in a much worse situation, not only with the russians and the ukrainians, but with our european allies. and i hope we can repair repair it. there are people in that room that i think are responsible adults. they

weren't speaking out. marco rubio, i voted for him. he got strong bipartisan support in the senate. i wish he would have said something. mike waltz the same. i think he spoke a little bit in the room, but i think it's going to be up to them and other folks in the administration like them to try to put this back together. >> let me ask you about i mean, secretary rubio was one of the biggest defenders of ukraine and supporting ukraine for many, many years. he looked very uncomfortable in that meeting. but none of us know what was exactly going on in his head. have you or other colleagues reached out to him, or are you hopeful that he'll reach out to you all to explain where he stands on this, at this moment? >> i don't expect him to reach out. i did send a text message to mike waltz after the meeting, you know, encouraging him to, you know, stay engaged on this and try to fix this. i, you

know, i feel horrible for the ukrainians. vladimir putin is murdering their citizens, raping women, stealing children. and he goes into that office into a into a press conference before the deal is signed. i mean, it seems to me that trump doesn't maybe he doesn't want a deal. i think one of the things he said that is rather instructive is in the middle of that meeting, he says, putin went through a lot of hell with me or something to that effect. and i don't quite understand why donald trump feels that, you know, that's something you would say as a combat veteran with your brothers in arms, that that this was hell or we went through hell together and he seems to have that kind of relationship with putin. and i don't get that.

putin is a dictator. this entire situation has made us less safe as a country. and you know who is watching this, jen? the chinese are watching. i mean, us standing with a democracy, standing with ukraine, standing with our allies, you know, makes us safer. the chinese are looking at this in how they're going to one day, you know, handle the situation as they view it with taiwan. and if they don't think we can stick together with our allies, that might be all they need to take the next steps. >> this is such an important point. the europeans are also moving forward with trying to come up with a plan without the united states leaving, leading it, which is also something significant to watch. let me ask you, because part of what needs to happen here is there needs to be bipartisan support in congress in order to provide additional assistance. senator graham is another senator who has long been a strong supporter of ukraine, who is critical even of the obama administration. when i was working for them of not doing more. he came out and

essentially ran to the cameras and called for zelensky to resign. what do you make of that? and are you how disappointed are you? >> very disappointed. surprised it happened. lindsey graham has always been a big defender of ukraine, as obviously john mccain was. and they were very close and they worked on a lot of this stuff together. and for him to jump in there with the president in this, what what feels to me like like the united states suddenly switched sides in this conflict. we've never done anything like this before. so i'm disappointed in some of my republican colleagues, but not all of them. lisa murkowski put out a statement last night. and, you know, and very plainly said why this is important to the united states, that we fix this. and sounded like she was rather disgusted about what happened in the oval office.

>> senator mark kelly, let's hope there's more like her, even privately. thank you so much for joining us. it's really important for people to understand this issue. >> and. >> you know a great deal. >> i know, i know there are there are more like like her and they need to speak out. >> i hope they do. thank you, senator, so much for joining me. >> thank you jen. >> coming up, why does elon musk actually want to gut the federal government? well, the answer might be staring us right in the might be staring us right in the face. i'll explain when we come dry... tired... itchy, burning... my dry eye symptoms got worse over time. my eye doctor explained the root was inflammation. xiidra was made for that, so relief is lasting. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra and seek medical help if needed. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort, blurred vision, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. before using xiidra, remove contact lenses and wait fifteen minutes before re-inserting.

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employees should do. and we also learned that the responses to those emails would be put through an ai system to decide whether those jobs are necessary. so yeah, this is what federal workers can look forward to every week, i guess. and this is all part of a smear campaign against the federal government to convince you that none of the programs or people that help you are worth spending money on. but as elon musk made clear during the three hour stop on joe rogan's podcast friday, he's got a pretty broad definition of waste. >> only the federal government could get away with this level of waste, of waste. it's mostly waste. it's mostly not fraud. it's mostly waste. it's mostly just ridiculous things happening. >> because they've been able. >> to do it. this way for. >> so long. they've become accustomed to it. >> yeah. i mean, it's like milton friedman said, like money is most poorly spent when you're spending someone else's money on people you don't know, how much are you going to care, right? and that's the that's the

federal government. >> someone else's money on people you don't know. okay. so using that logic, let's just take a look at what musk has done. cancer research. apparently that's a waste. even if it's for 911 firefighters, still a waste. how about medicaid health coverage? you know, for people in or near the poverty level? apparently that's both fraud and waste. spending money to try to hire more veterans? well, that's a dei program, according to musk. so that's a waste, too. and it also seems that a lot of the so-called waste is in the agencies that just happen to be overseeing or investigating the companies that elon musk runs. just consider what's been on the chopping block so far. the folks setting rules around self-driving cars. well, that's a big business project for musk. he calls that waste and gave them a 50% cut. the national highway traffic safety administration investigating car safety and crashes, and

recalling cars like, say, 2 million teslas back in 2023. i guess they're a waste. he gave them a 10% cut, working to make sure that neuralink brain implants are safe. apparently, those folks are waste since now they're gone. the folks at usda working to make sure neuralink's animal experiments that have killed over 1000 animals follow rules against animal cruelty. looks like musk says that's a waste to the inspector general at the defense department, investigating whether it's okay for musk not to disclose any foreign government ties before taking on a bigger role in national defense. you're not going to be shocked here. but elon musk thinks that's obviously a waste. so as random as these cuts may seem, it's striking how well they also serve his bottom line. it's pretty ironic, given that musk basically owes his success to the federal government. the washington post reported that at least $38 billion of your dollars have propped up musk's businesses for about two decades. yes, you, the american taxpayer, were a crucial early

investor who saved a struggling tesla and a struggling spacex. but instead of rewarding you for that, he's cutting programs that help you. and he's still adding to his own total. the post also reported that after musk tweeted that it was bad, the faa is getting ready to take a $2.4 billion contract away from verizon to update the communication system that is the backbone of us air traffic control. then they'll award it to starlink, which is owned by, as i'm sure you all know by now, elon musk. so it's apparently not a waste of american taxpayers money, so long as it helps the richest man in the world. that's the bar. neera tanden has had more jobs in government than almost anyone i know. she also knows more about government than almost anyone i know. and she's going to join me next. >> to back pain. when you've got it, you know it. introducing the x back from copper fit, our groundbreaking technology designed for compression support of your lower back and core like

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speaker: my little miracle is beckett. [christina perri, "a thousand years"] i have died every day waiting for you. we wouldn't be where we are without saint jude. and in turn, we wouldn't be where we are without those people that have donated. >> so as i just walked through for years, elon musk has built his business empire on the back of the federal government, benefiting from at least $38 billion in taxpayer money to date. but under trump, he's not just benefiting from those contracts. he's locking out the competition, and the payday is only getting bigger. just this week, the washington post revealed that the faa is on the verge of a of canceling a $2.3 billion contract with verizon, only to hand it over to musk's starlink. so yeah, that's hundred and $50 million must spend to get trump elected is looking like a pretty good investment with every day that

passes. joining me now is neera tanden. she's the president and ceo of the center for american progress and the former domestic policy adviser to president joe biden. i could ask you about every policy issue on the planet, but i just wanted to start. i mean, you and i have seen each other, but i haven't talked to you about how you've been digesting what musk and trump have been doing over the last several weeks. what concerns you the most? >> well, i think. it's obvious. >> that this is a massive. >> effort at. corruption by elon musk, as you pointed out, how much he's gaining just his own personal. wealth from what he's doing. obviously, this is a huge conflict of interest, but i think what's most important is to remember is what the impact on the american people are. when we have air traffic controller staff who are really there to ensure that your pilot does not fall asleep when you fire those people. you and i are less safe. your family is less safe when

you fire people who deal with drug shortages at hhs, at probably agencies, you don't even know what they do. that means that the american people will have find it harder to access drugs needed medications. so as i look through the federal government, what i am really worried about, and it's heartbreaking, these stories about federal workers. but the thing that we should all be really worried about is how those how those public servants were protecting our families, our children from measle outbreaks from, from, you know, just accidents on the freeway. and this wrecking ball approach is one where you know, it's going to be okay for elon musk because he has a private jet. but for those of us who are just flying normally, who actually drive ourselves on on the roads and bridges of america, we are getting less and less safe. and i think that's what's really

crucial about all of this, which is, again, the federal government does many, many things, but just basic protection to you and your family is a critical role. >> let me ask you, you know so much about the inner workings of government. you're a nerd. i'm a nerd. welcome, nerd. is there. >> anything more than elon musk? >> well, that's true, but i was going to ask you about is what in the system of the federal government? yes, trump is in the white house but can prevent him from doing this stuff. we've seen the courts take steps. is there anything else in kind of the checks and checks within the federal bureaucracy that can prevent him from benefiting so much financially, from getting as much access to people's data as we're seeing? >> yeah, i think absolutely, the courts have to play a central role here, unfortunately. one, you know, our systems do rely on leaders who have the broad public interest in mind. and if they are actually empowering an oligarch to basically derive

wealth from the federal government, it is really the courts that can take action. of course, as we look forward to how we, the congress, deals with the government shutdown, i think it's crucial that there are aspects of that. there are protections to ensure that actually, congress still has the power to appropriate. i mean, stepping back this entire what elon musk is doing is taking the decision making power from the congress and giving it to himself and the president. and it's crucial that if we're going to actually have a functioning government and constitutional checks and balances, that we actually have a congress that does that. and again, it's really not about the bureaucracy or this service. it's really about protecting the public from a, a, an operation in which we just ignore basic protections for people. >> congress, i mean, democrats are in the minority in the house and the senate, which gives some limitations on what they can do.

you've been in this town for a long time. i have been to what are you when you're watching? what's happening? what are you screaming at the tv saying, why don't you do this? please, can you do this? maybe you're calling people up to what do you wish the democrats were doing? >> look, i understand everyone is angry, and it's really not just angry. it's fearful. i mean, people are scared. people in this town are scared. and not just for their livelihoods, but what it means to protect other people. and i understand that fear and anger. i also think we have to recognize that the single most important check on donald trump today is a republican party that is willing to hold him accountable. i absolutely think that democrats should ensure that republicans produce the votes they need themselves to fund the government and take strong stands on, actually, the constitutional order. but let's just remember that thom tillis is senator from north carolina. he's up in two years. he's acting like there is no there

are no democrats in north carolina. he's he's supported kash patel. he kind of did a 360 degree on pete hegseth. and a really disturbing way it's you can hold people like that accountable. we can actually call make calls to republicans. i think it's important that we recognize, like we did, you know, years ago with defending the affordable care act. that pressure does work a lot. number of republicans, not just in the senate but in the house, voted against that. the affordable care act repeal, because america stood up, woke up and actually said, no. >> this is such an important reminder. there's also governors races this year. there's lots of things coming up. neera tanden, thank you so much for joining me. it was really great to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up, a sneak peek at two brand new episodes of the blueprint coming up tomorrow. blueprint coming up tomorrow. we'll be right back. -we're done. -what about these? looks right. nooo...

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out. tomorrow i talk to stacey abrams about what it's going to take to keep democratic voters engaged during a second trump term. i also talked to former ohio congressman tim ryan. we talked about a lot of things, including a guy he knows well, vice president jd vance. what? what drives you craziest about what people's perception is of him? that's just wrong. >> he uses his god. >> given abilities. >> and his story and his

tragedies. and traumas to help people who don't need it. >> to validate the richest man in the world. >> it's unbelievable. so yeah, that that. >> drives me nuts. you know, because you you see, i mean, it's you live with people who. >> are are struggling. >> and i think. >> in a lot of ways he. he. >> has forgotten where he came from. and the people. >> that that are still. >> out there struggling. >> he knows how. >> to use it as. >> a tagline. >> or a. >> punchline or. >> you know, a talking point. but i don't think. >> he remembers. >> exactly the, you. >> know. >> kind. >> of pain. >> that. people are. >> still going through. >> those new episodes with tim ryan and stacey abrams will be available tomorrow, wherever you get your podcasts. that does it for me today, but stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc. >> this hour. doge subcommittee member, congresswoman jasmine crockett on why elon musk should testify at a hri