tell you that tomorrow, right in this time slot, jen psaki and i will be hosting the lead up to one of these special trump speeches to a joint session of congress, the first of his second term. we will be anchoring from 6 to 8 p.m, and then rachel maddow will lead full team coverage on that address to congress. that starts at 8 p.m. eastern tomorrow, the speech, and then further coverage throughout the night. this is the president's joint address in a year where because of the election, they don't have a state of the union, but it is the big annual address nonetheless. thanks for watching the beat. i'll see you tomorrow. like i said, with jen and symone sanders, townsend is up next. hi, simone. >> greetings, ari. >> i'll be watching. >> you tomorrow. all right. well, you don't have a rap reference for me, ari. oh, i'm so disappointed. well, folks. greetings. i'm sanders townsend. we begin tonight with the world. >> still reeling. >> from donald trump and j.d. vance's decision last week to berate, belittle and gaslight ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky in the oval office.

european allies are now unsure of how to handle the united states now that trump is fully, openly aligned with vladimir putin's russia. meanwhile, here at home, social security has never missed a payment in than 80 years, but your benefit checks might not show up next month. the former social security commissioner, martin o'malley, warned today that the slash and burn tactics of the world's richest man, elon musk, and his department of governmental efficiency would soon disrupt the system. o'malley saying, quote, you're going to see the system collapse and an interruption of benefits. i believe you will see that within the next 30 to 90 days. he added. people should start saving now. just be careful where you save that money, folks, because this afternoon, donald trump confirmed that his costly tariffs on goods from canada and mexico would kick in tomorrow. and stocks immediately plunged off a cliff, with the dow losing 650 points. and oh, by the way, tonight james dennehy, he was the head of the fbi's new york office. well he was forced to resign because he

wouldn't help out with the purge of agents who worked on january 6th cases. there's chaos abroad. there's chaos at home. and tomorrow night, the man responsible for it all is coming to your house. yes. donald trump is set to give a joint address to congress tuesday night. this is his first since returning to the white house. and since he started tearing down not just the guardrails, but the government itself. the last time that he spoke to congress in 2020, speaker nancy pelosi set the tone for democrats by tearing up a copy of trump's speech. but this time around, democratic leadership seems to want a more demure approach. democratic leaders congressman hakeem jeffries and senator chuck schumer are pushing members to attend trump's speech and bring special guests who have been impacted by the administration's government purges. but there are a handful of democrats that say they may not attend at all. boycotting trump's speech to drive home one key point that this is not business as usual. america is on life support and donald trump, he has his hand on the plug. congresswoman pramila jayapal is

a democrat out of washington state, and she joins me now. congresswoman, let's just start off the top. are you one of the democrats that are planning not to attend the president's joint address to congress tomorrow? and if you are, why and if not, why not? >> it is so good to see you, symone. and look, i am. >> still. deciding because i. think there are reasons. >> to attend and. >> reasons not to attend. i do have a terrific state of the union guest. the president of the flight attendants association is coming with me, sara nelson. >> and we're going. >> to talk. >> about. >> the. >> effects on public safety and people who are taking planes. and yet. we're seeing musk, elon musk fire all of these workers who actually keep our skies safe. but i think that your point. is well taken. this is an unprecedented situation. this is. >> a. >> situation where. >> elon musk and donald trump are stealing from the american people, from medicaid, from social security, from all of the things that actually matter, just so they can give. >> tax breaks. >> to billionaires.

>> and destroy our government, destroy the very entity that is responsible for making sure that people have a fair shot and, you know, are. >> able to. >> have a functioning country. so this is serious. >> and i think. >> whatever our response. is tomorrow and. >> we'll see exactly. >> what that looks. >> like. >> it is going. >> to need to meet the moment, and. >> it's going to need. >> to. >> respond to. >> our constituents, republicans. independents and democrats alike, who are deeply worried, concerned that donald trump is betraying the middle class. >> working class. >> people across this country. >> well, congresswoman, we're seeing that in town halls all over the country. and so respond to the constituents. the constituents would say, this is not business as usual, and they want their democratic members to do something. i'm struck by your answer with the and also adding this letter from the leader, jeffries, within the last hour, it was a dear colleague. it says from democrats again it's two democrats from house minority

leader hakeem jeffries. the first notable thing here is the decision to attend the joint session is a personal one, and we understand that members will come to different conclusions. however, it's important to have a strong, determined and dignified democratic presence in the chamber. and then next he goes on to note, throughout the week, there is a series of events planned in connection with president trump's speech. beyond the traditional democratic response, jeffries says the democrats will be engaging media all day tomorrow. congresswoman, what was the conversation inside the caucus meeting? take us in there, because i just just tell us what tell us what you can, because it strikes me that there are some folks that are saying, look, we must go and attend because this is what we do, and we can't have a strong presence and a strong, forceful pushback if we're not in the chamber. but then there are other members who are saying, what do you mean they are? if we're saying that they are raiding the federal government and trampling on the civil liberties of good government workers and people all across this country, how can we sit in the chamber like business as usual? >> yes. and look, i'm not going to speak for other people, but

i'll just tell you, the way i see it is that this time around, we know exactly what he's going to do. we know that he's going to lie, that he's going to be completely divorced from reality in terms of what he describes, and that he's going to have a unanimous republican side cheering. >> him on. >> and standing up for everything. if you do not have democrats in the room, i think you could. have the scenario where they fill all the seats with republicans and their staff member, and it looks like there's no pushback at all. so i'm just giving you the straight answer for why somebody would make that argument. at the same time, for me, i think it is very important that if i am in the chamber, that i. >> have a way to. >> call out his lies, that i. >> have a way. >> to be very clear about the things that he is doing and saying. and, and it's not easy to figure out what this balance is. so i, i will give our, our leadership that. but i think it is a it is important that the conversation is about what he is

doing to the american people and the lies that he is telling, and whether we're boycotting it or whether we're in the chamber. i think that is the most important thing. let's not let him get away with, you know, just going up there and saying things that are completely not true. while he has done absolutely nothing, simone, to actually lower the cost for working people across this country. >> he the eggs are still high. >> yes. >> the price of eggs are still high. can i. can i. >> ask you. >> congresswoman, before i, before i lose you speaking of, you know, doing something for the american people and things that directly affect them, social security has not missed a payment in decades. and now you have former governor martin o'malley, also the former commissioner, administrator of the security administration, saying that next month the checks might not come through. is this threat to social security real? and what should people at home know? >> it is absolutely real. republicans have said they want to cut social security, and

they're going to do it in all kinds of ways. they're going to. >> try to. >> make you think it's about waste, fraud and abuse. but let me tell you, if they fire over 1000 social security workers, people are not going to get their checks as it is. our office gets calls all the time from people because there aren't enough operators. there aren't enough workers at social security, republicans have managed to continue to strip away at the most popular program that americans love. and so this is another way for them to destroy social security. and the impact is going to be you're not going to get your social security check on time. you are going to have to spend even more time than you already do, trying to find out what is going on and how you're going to make housing. make your rental payment for that month. if you don't get your social security check. so people are going to feel the effects of this. and this is exactly what's happening with medicaid right now as well. it's also what's going to happen with medicare. they are decimating and stealing from people on the programs and services that people rely on across this country, and they

are using it to pay for tax breaks for billionaires. that is not right, and we're not going to stand for it. >> all right. we'll leave it there. congresswoman pramila jayapal, thank you. you can feel free to text me. let me know if you end up deciding what you're going to do. >> you know. >> i appreciate your time. ken martin is the newly elected chair of the democratic national committee, and he joins me now. mr. chairman, you heard my conversation with the congresswoman. i want to pick up where she left off. there are actually there are real, real issues confronting the american people because of what the president and elon musk and all the folks that work for him are doing to dismantle the federal government. you have been on a tour across the country, a listening tour, talking to voters, democrats, republicans and independents. what are you hearing? what's bubbling up to the top? >> well, what. >> i'm hearing is exactly what congresswoman jayapal said is deep frustration. amongst the american people. you know, donald trump promised them that he was going to actually make their lives easier to live, and

he broke that promise. in fact, he sold out working class people. also, he could give big tax breaks to fat cat billionaires who don't deserve them, like his his buddy elon musk. the reality is, is, look, i was in la meeting with first responders and victims of the fire. >> i was. >> in pittsburgh. meeting with union workers. >> i was. >> in saint louis working with farmers. meeting with farmers. the reality is, is i'm hearing all over the country a deep frustration with this president and this administration for not delivering on the promises. >> they made. >> i want to play for you, senator chris murphy, on what now? he has said he won't be attending donald trump's speech. and this is what he said to nbc news today about what democrats should do. take a listen. >> you know, when somebody is trying to grab. >> power, when. >> somebody is trying to destroy. >> democracy. >> they benefit from people who. >> are static, who refuse to be nimble. >> i mean, every democrat could just continue to run in the same direction they've been running for the. >> ten years, last ten years. >> or you could realize that

this moment is different, that this threat is unique. and to me. you know, we don't. have another. year to. >> fight this attempt. >> to. >> destroy democracy. >> our democracy might be gone in six months. >> do you agree with the senator? >> i do agree with the senator. and in fact, we. >> have to. >> resist with. >> every fiber. >> of our. >> being at this moment when the stakes are. >> so high for the. >> american people, it's up to. >> us to. >> actually stand up and fight right now. if they don't see us fighting right now, how in the hell can we, as democrats, believe that they're going to put us back in power? because they won't believe that we'll fight for them when we're in power. we've got to fight right now because our democracy is on fire. you know, donald trump, the republicans have completely abdicated, not just republican values, democratic values, but american values. they have walked away from our democracy. they have walked away from the rule of law, away from separation of power. and they've broken every single promise that they made on the campaign trail

to the american people. so we've got to fight back right now. and whether you attend tomorrow's night, tomorrow night's address or not, every member of congress should get back into their districts and stand with the american people and make sure that we are loud and clear and resisting what donald trump, elon musk and j.d. vance are doing to this country. >> well, you know, i'm glad to hear you say that, sir, because i've been talking to a number of people who have been impacted by the random firings within the federal government. and one person who is a career political civil servant, who has been placed on administrative leave with the promise of termination. who's the general counsel at an agency, said that they wanted people out there to know that the people within the federal government feel like they are living through a coup. so if you agree with senator murphy that you don't think that there'll be a democracy in six months if folks don't fight for it, if, you know, we're listening to these people who have served our country, say they feel like we're living through a coup,

what should democrats be doing? because i don't know. a town hall doesn't feel like it's enough. but there are very limited things that democrats can do to affect the situation at hand. chief among them, because, you know, the republicans are in power. they have the white house, the senate and the congress. >> well, i. refuse to believe that you're ever powerless. everyone has agency here. use your voice. get up, stand up, organize. stand in solidarity with those workers. make sure that people know that we understand what's happening in this country right now. and part of that is, is making sure that, you know, people take direct action. as i said the last time i was on with you, there's four things that people can do right now to help if they really want to. one is to help in these special elections coming up on april 1st, we have a wisconsin supreme court seat that's really critical that we win. and there are two congressional seats in florida, one in florida, six. and i can tell you right now, americans are off right now. and if we just did our job of focusing on those elections, we

might be able to win all three of those races on april 1st. so channel your energy right now into helping us win, because one way we can certainly stop and slow down donald trump right now is winning back the us house and winning that wisconsin supreme court race, which elon musk is trying to buy. third thing or second thing you can do is run for something. we have 100,000 local races on the ballot throughout the country right now school boards, city councils, county board races, you name it. and while it might not save our democracy at this moment, it's really critical that we actually start running for these offices so we can build power both in the short term and the long term around our agenda. and the third thing you can do is join your local party so we can build a volunteer army right now, at this moment, to stand up to donald trump, elon musk and jd vance. >> ken martin, chair of the democratic national committee, sounding like a man with a four point or three point plan. thank you very much, sir, for your time today. we'll see you again soon. coming up next, folks. how

are european leaders reacting after donald trump's oval office meltdown? senator amy klobuchar will join me on the ongoing fallout from donald trump's fallout from donald trump's tantrum. that's next. for people who feel limited by the unpredictability of generalized myasthenia gravis, season to season, ultomiris is continuous symptom control, with improvement in activities of daily living and reduced muscle weakness. and ultomiris is the only long-acting gmg treatment with the freedom of just 6 to 7 infusions per year, for a predictable routine i can count on. ultomiris may lower your immune system's ability to fight infections, increasing your chance of serious meningococcal and other infections which may become life-threatening or fatal. complete or update meningococcal vaccines at least 2 weeks before you start. if treatment is urgent, and you're not vaccinated, you should receive antibiotics with your vaccines. don't start if you have a meningococcal infection. infusion reactions may include back, belly, limb, or chest pain, muscle spasms, blood pressure changes, tiredness, shaking chills, bad taste, breathing problems, or face, tongue, or throat swelling.

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only $15 a month... and stream all your favorite entertainment, all in one place. 100 days. rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> more than ever. >> this is not. >> a time to pretend this isn't happening. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky was in london over the weekend for a meeting with european leaders and the reception he got there from the uk prime minister and other heads of state, was notably different than his meeting with trump. look at that hug. look at this. now, king charles also

invited the ukrainian president to visit him at his country house, where the two allies stood for pictures, smiling by a roaring fire. all of that. a very big contrast to that oval office meeting that continues to produce shock waves around the world and in the us. trump's own former national security adviser, h.r. mcmaster, saying the meeting made russian president vladimir putin very happy. >> vladimir putin couldn't be happier, scott. >> because what. >> he sees is all of the pressure on zelensky, all of the pressure on ukraine and no pressure on him. he appeals to president trump's sense of aggrievement. right. you know, donald, you know, like me, you know, you've been treated so unfairly. >> you seem to be saying that president trump is being played. >> he is being played. >> senator amy klobuchar is a democrat out of minnesota and a member of leadership for senate democrats. she was among the bipartisan group of senators that met with president zelensky before the oval office meeting.

and she joins us now. senator klobuchar, good to see you. thank you so much for joining us. the fallout continues. i mean, you have today, president trump in at the white house suggesting being very critical, insisting that a peace agreement to end the war with russia shouldn't be that hard and that it within reach. how do you how is this playing with our with our allies and frankly, the republican members who are in the room with you at that meeting with zelensky? well. >> the meeting. >> was so positive, symone, it wasn't fake positive. it was. >> real, including. >> with the republican members and including with president zelensky. he was ready to go over there. he wants peace. and of course, his point at the meeting when he was berated by j.d. vance was that putin has violated the cease fires and other agreements, like the minsk agreement over and over and over again, and that we needed to have a plan, including the european troops, that the

british and the french have pledged to enforce it. i was appalled by what happened. we have allies. and when you look at the economic situation right now with the tariffs that president trump is talking about putting on our allies tomorrow, canada, mexico, and at the same time, he's cozying up to russia. this makes no sense at all. who do you want as your friends? the countries that are 50% of the economy, that's us and europe and south korea and japan. or do you want to be with north korea, russia or iran? that is that friend group over there. and when you look at the numbers, russia has like 2 or 3% of the economy. and why would you abandon them? so of course, at the same time, i want to help the ukrainians. they have put themselves on the line. they've stopped vladimir putin from marching through their country, right into europe. and so whatever we can do to have a reset and to get the republicans

to quietly because they won't stand up, put pressure on the trump administration to get to the agreement that president trump had wanted them to sign. anyway, that's where we need to go to stand up with the ukrainians instead of with russia. >> i would just note the minimal agreement that apparently does nothing for ukraine but hands over mining rights to american companies. but i guess that's neither here nor there. the wall street journal is reporting this evening that the united states is actually halting arms sales to ukraine. what have you heard? do you know about this? >> i haven't heard that. and again, the congress has appropriated money. right. that's what we do. we're article one. we're actually ahead of the president in the constitution. and we did that. so it is one thing to have debates on the next budget. but what the europeans and the americans until now have been trying to do with ukraine is to negotiate through our sanctions, through

all of the things that are on the table, some kind of end to this war. and we certainly don't want to undermine president zelensky, which is exactly what vance did. and just so your viewers understand this. president zelensky has thanked america over and over again. vance was claiming he hadn't thanked anyone. complete lie. he thanked them in congress. he thanked them in public meetings, in private meetings. and the people of ukraine are forever grateful to america. this is a solid ally. it's going to be an economic ally, and we need to stand with ukraine. >> the president's joint address to congress is tomorrow. as i noted, you are a member of senate leadership. that means you must go. but you are bringing the president of the minnesota farm workers with you. yeah, the largest the farmers union. the last time that donald trump was in office, he dilly dallied in the tariffs, if you will, that he's threatening again tomorrow 25% tariffs on mexico and canada. and the last

time it's my understanding congress had to bail out the farmers because they were so hurt by the tariffs. so what are the minnesota farm farmers saying about these tariffs? >> well, they want fair trade and they want to be able to sell their goods in the us and abroad. and they don't want aid. that's not their preference. right. but instead he's going to have to throw a bunch of money because he's not because he's doing these tariffs. and you look at it 25% tariff on canada. that is minnesota's biggest. >> trading partner. >> there will be retaliatory tariffs coming right back at us. you're going to see the same with mexico. and the estimates are this isn't just a tariff. it's a tax on families that this was going to be over $1,200 with the newest ones even over $2,000 per year per family on average. and that is exactly why we're at a time where you already see coffee up 16% a sky high. depending are you are $8, $9 a

dozen lumber prices going up. and now he's going to add to this the people that voted for him that wanted a change, okay. they thought that he was actually going to lower costs and do something about housing and child care and prescription drugs. he is actually doing the opposite. and that is tomorrow night. democrats are united on holding him accountable for this. and the guests that we are bringing, a number of us are going to make that point that he is hurting average americans. he is making things cost more for them, and he is cutting people like park rangers and cancer researchers and accidentally people who are guarding our nuclear stockpile. then he tried to rehire them, all of that, to find $2 trillion in tax cuts for the wealthiest people in our nation, for billionaires, that is our very straightforward message, and we are united on that. >> extremely straightforward. i will vote for anyone that says, oh, donald trump might not do the tariffs, he said. today

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>> suddenly, the heads of one of the key government agencies that donald trump and elon musk have, you know, targeted for shutdown. well, they seem to be backtracking. this is the consumer financial protection bureau that we're talking about, and it protects americans from getting fleeced or defrauded by financial scams. employees there got an email yesterday. yes. on a sunday basically saying why have you all stopped doing your jobs? i'm not joking. this is the this is the email. it is come to my attention that some employees have not been performing statutorily required work. a top agency official wrote in the email. employees should be performing work that is required by law and do not need to seek prior approval to do so, which is strange considering previous emails employees got, including this one saying employees should not come into the office. please do not perform any work tasks. so i'm confused. okay. and i'm sure the people that work at the cfpb are confused. so it makes you wonder what caused these officials to send out an email

on a sunday, appearing to ask people to reverse course and go back to doing their jobs. maybe it was in anticipation of the federal court hearing that was held today, where supporters of the cfpb protested, and where the judge expressed concern that the agency might be choked out of its very existence. alexis goldstein was a senior technologist for the cfpb until she was fired by the trump administration, along with the agency's other technology experts. and she joins me now. alexis, i will note for folks at home that today, that same judge that expresses skepticism, it kept in place the pause on the mass firings to weigh whether donald trump's moves mean impending doom for the agency. according to nbc news, a federal judge monday kept in place the order prohibiting mass firings while she sorts through conflicting claims about whether the trump administration is still trying to shutter the independent agency. you were in the agency, you were fired unceremoniously, is it not? cut and dry? >> thanks for having me. >> it's pretty cut. and dry.

>> elon musk. >> has talked. >> about wanting to delete the cfpb. donald trump. >> has bragged. >> about getting rid of us. >> they have not been secretive about their plans. what we see. >> today. >> this backtracking, is they are scared of losing in court, and they are scared of being caught in their lies. let's not forget that congress created the cfpb after the catastrophic 2008 financial crisis, when millions of americans lost their homes and there was a regulatory. failure leading up to that. >> there wasn't. >> one regulatory agency. >> where consumers. >> could go if their car was illegally repossessed, or if their home was. stolen through an illegal foreclosure. that's why. >> congress created. >> the cfpb. >> so that we could. >> be there to answer the call to help consumers. you could. >> call us america's lawyer. >> when banks and financial firms. stole steal your money, we fight to get it back. all we want to do is our jobs. all we want to do is get back to work. and i think the trump administration is starting to

see they didn't anticipate that we would fight back so hard. they didn't anticipate that congress would stand up for us. and they're scared. they're scared of losing in court. and that's why we see them changing what they've been saying. >> a number of democrats and leadership signed on to a brief, basically supporting underscoring that the cfpb is an important agency that should exist. we had the former director of the cfpb on director, rohit chopra, and he noted and this was prior to obviously, that reversal. and he noted that the under current leadership, the cfpb has actually dismissed all of these cases in court that were looking to hold us companies accountable. there was a capital one case, for example, and they've gone to court over the last couple of weeks and dismissed all these. the point that you make about really working on behalf of consumers being, you know, the consumers advocate their lawyer, if you will. right now, there are hundreds of millions of dollars in payments that are supposed to be going back to consumers that the cfpb, you know, one, if you will, on their behalf that are

currently just frozen because of the work stoppage. what if you're a person who was counting on that money from cfpb, the money that you were defrauded out of. is there any recourse? >> i mean, i think the cfpb is in the hands of the trump administration, and they are deciding to pick the pocket of the american public, just like you said. simone scammed student loan borrowers who were tricked by navient. they are owed $100 million. that money should be going out the door. and it's not. the cfpb doesn't cost taxpayers a single penny, a single dollar. we, however, have returned $21 billion in restitution, in relief to consumers in our existence. and by the way, i should note, the cfpb is younger than pinterest. we haven't been around very long, but we're mighty and we punch above our weight class. and so the trump administration is the only people who benefit from a frozen cfpb are financial scammers and thieves. and the billionaires who who also

benefit from scamming americans. it's quite simple. if they cared about the american public, if they cared about regular americans getting their money back, they would let the cfpb do its job. that congress instructed us to do. only congress could create us. only congress can uncreate us. and that's what that lawsuit was about in court today. >> why do you think elon musk took such a interest, if you will, in the cfpb? why target you all first? i mean, there are other places. and also i would just like to note i haven't seen any waste, fraud or abuse. and fraud is a crime. so where is the fraud. it's just it's not adding up. so why do you think he took such a ire to you all? >> so elon musk has made it clear he's launching a payments platform x money together with visa. the cfpb was the regulator that was the watchdog of payment platforms. we had recently issued a new oversight over payment platforms. you know, if you want to split a bill with somebody after you go to dinner

and you use an app to do that, we have oversight over those companies. so elon musk, of course, wants to get rid of the very watchdog who would make sure he wasn't breaking the law. and i should also note that the cfpb has a lot of confidential data from elon's competitors. are they looking at that? are they illegally taking trade secrets from their future competitors? these are all questions that former workers of the cfpb, current workers of the cfpb and members of congress all have. >> well, i do think the members of congress have the question, which is why they are asking for elon musk to come and testify before the committee. alexis goldstein, thank you for coming and making it very plain, and we appreciate your time. still to come, folks, donald trump has only been president for 42 days. i know only 42 days. how do we make sense of all the chaos? make sense of all the chaos? we're going to get pronamel clinical enamel strength can help us to keep our enamel for a lifetime. it's backed by science

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in hiring and promotions. so the fact that our government is extremely diverse is not an accident. it was by virtue of anti-discrimination legislation that ensured that everyone had access to the opportunity, just the opportunity of a good job, which was and still is in many places, the federal government. now, republicans and right wing media are intentionally calling these workers bureaucrats. but what really is a bureaucrat? they want you all out there to think that they are talking about nameless administrative people who work in washington dc? no no no no no, honey, when they say bureaucrats, they are talking about the people at the post office or the court reporter at the federal courthouse in savannah, georgia. those aren't bureaucrats. what about the nurses at the va in pittsburgh or wisconsin? don't think they're bureaucrats. the people that work in the army corps of engineers, like my dad did in omaha, nebraska. they are not bureaucrats. the folks at tsa in airports all over the country. i do not think i will

call them bureaucrats. it's important to put a face to the term because otherwise the narrative just gets lost. conservatives are talking about americans all over this country doing vital and invisible services for us every day, and acting like these are evil people that need to be rooted out. no, these are our neighbors. and let's just be very clear. this is not just elon musk. he is absolutely part of it, but he is just carrying out the playbook that donald trump's budget head, russell boat put together in project 2025. elon musk is serving as the face of their efforts. that's why donald trump and the folks around him want to control the media and the courts, y'all. because if they can control how you and millions of other americans perceive the situation, the so-called bureaucrats, then it becomes that much easier for them to go and ransack the federal government and do things that actually dismantle our democracy from the inside out without any pushback. you have to pay attention because none of what attention because none of what they say,

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are still.

checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now and it is. really important to pay attention. >> to it. >> but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all. or at least not yet. >> just try to remember. we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun. >> it's only been 42 days since donald trump's inauguration, but in that time, the united states has cut off nearly all foreign aid. undocumented people are being rounded up and sent to guantanamo bay. the national weather service has been gutted ahead of hurricane season. terror threats have tanked the markets. and the president blew up at a wartime leader in the oval office to basically switch sides and support russia. not to mention everything that's going

on at the faa. all of that and more. in just the past six weeks, the political conversation can sometimes feel like it shifts with the wind. but there are through lines, and some can be found in the warnings about what was to come during the lead up to the election. as anyone who even flipped through project 2025 understood donald trump's plan, we are literally living through those warnings as we speak. and all of the chaos is going to be on full display yet again tomorrow night when the president makes his address to congress. charles coleman is a civil rights attorney and former counsel at the equal opportunity. the equal employment opportunity commission. say that five times. and ali shaheed is a veteran democratic strategist. and they both join me now. did you all know it has only been 42 days? >> not until you. >> just said. yeah. i mean, what do you think the through lines, the chaos. we're kind of talking about it in the break, but i, we've been talking a lot about what donald trump is doing and the people that are affected by what is happening. and it just feels like america is drinking from a fire hose.

>> i think. >> there are two things that come to mind when i'm looking at the past 42 days, which have seemed like the past the longest. >> six years. today, i said, it's been three months, right? it's been. >> a very long. >> six years. it feels like over the past 42 days. >> his beard was black before. >> yeah. exactly. right. >> so the first thing is we've spent a lot of time talking about what donald trump and this administration is doing. and i don't think enough time talking about whether they can. >> actually do it. >> and there are people who are challenging that in courts. that's happening. and i think that that's something that is important. but we can never let go of that question. we are seeing from this administration an unprecedented power grab by the executive branch, and that has to remain our central focus, regardless of how we feel about the actual changes. >> the question. >> has to be. >> can you actually. make them? are you empowered. >> to. >> actually do the things that you are trying to do? >> the second. >> thing that i'll say as i look at this is the alternative. >> the democrats, they've. >> got to figure out whether they're going to play by the

rules or not. >> cam martin said that he believes he agrees with senator murphy is what he just told me, the chair of democratic national committee said he also agrees that we won't have a democracy in six months if people don't fight back. he had a three point plan on here. he laid out. he talked about elections in wisconsin on april 1st, but the supreme court, he talked about two congressional seats in florida, that there are things people should be focused on right now and that no, people should not just go along with the get along, but they must push back. wiley, what do you think? and i guess i would also say. i mean, some of what donald trump is doing is illegal, but someone has to enforce the illegality of it. >> so there's one name that's getting missed in this conversation, which is which unites peter thiel, marc andreessen, the crypto bros, elon musk and jd vance, which is their their philosopher, that they all follow their ideological like air that they all come from. is someone in curtis yarvin who just did an interview with the new york times last month. curtis yarvin is a far right pseudo intellectual who believes in

replacing the united states government with a ceo monarchy. he believes in, quote unquote, deleting the federal government and replacing it with people from silicon valley. far right ideologues who believe that ceos are the best kinds of managers in the country, and getting rid of the public, every public servant, the entire civil service, the federal bureaucracy. and this is, you know, we can say that this is what project 2020, project 2025 was, but it's that on steroids now that it's coming into fruition through elon musk. he is a curtis. they are trying to do curtis yarvin's plan and they don't. j.d. vance, who's the heir to curtis yarvin, has said on the record, if the supreme court tries to stop us, we will go to the american people and say, enforce it. and they've already declared in their campaign that they plan to not abide by what the courts say. so i agree with what ken martin and chris murphy are saying, that this, this next 3 to 6 month period is for democrats, for progressives, for federal workers, for veterans. we have to slow them down as much as we

can. town halls, protests. there's people at tesla factories today. i think all that stuff is really important. >> well, i mean, they i have asked some of the, you know, legal organizations that have been bringing some of these lawsuits. do you all have a plan if they decide to ignore what a what a judge ruling says? and they say, well, we're talking about it. they're figuring it out because it is something that they are seeding the ground with. they're saying right now. i mean, they're elon musk and jd vance are talking about impeaching activist judges. the judges shouldn't be able to tell the executive what to do. and it's like, what about the co-equal branches of government? charles, i'm just thinking about the fact that, you know, back in the day, maybe like a year ago, you could sue if you felt like you were being discriminated against. you know, if there was if there was workplace discrimination. now they're saying all these workers are die and they don't even get to work in federal government. what is going on? >> you know. >> as a former eeoc senior trial attorney. this strikes me as very, very important to me, because when you're talking about many of these executive orders that this administration has advanced in just this 45 day period, these are things that

run directly. counter to the civil rights act of 1964, title seven, title nine, in a number of different cases, in a number of different arenas, and have an adverse impact in terms of what they are intended to do. these are laws, codified laws that people literally. >> died for. >> in terms of being able to see these things get on the books and advance opportunity for people in the workplace. and now, with the span of weeks, you're trying to do away with that. >> without using the laws to say that, well, it's really. >> reverse discrimination. >> or reverse, which is not real. >> and i have to applaud the afge, which is the largest unionized organization of federal employees who have taken this administration to court in several different arenas over several different things, including the reduction in workforce as well as just the overall di executive orders because of the conflict there. in in with respect to title seven, it's important to understand, simone, the future of american democracy rests with

the judiciary. >> well that's concerning. i'm sorry, but the judiciary don't make me feel good because some days they get it right. some days they get it wrong. i mean, i think that the people in the streets also matter, do they not? now we are not seeing and i've heard you talk about this. we are not seeing the level of resistance that we saw in the first trumpet in the early days of the first trump administration. i would like to note, probably because the 92% said, we tried to tell you, okay, y'all do with that what you will. the 92% is. but do the people in the streets not matter? because i don't think the courts are enough. the courts are also receptive. i think they say that they're not paying attention to any of the other things, but the people in the streets and the people who are speaking up give voice and face to the lawsuits, do they not? >> and in every country that's ever faced an authoritarian public, the public still matters. and we are not seeing the level and scale of the kinds of protests we saw, either in 2020 around the george floyd protests or in 2017 around the resistance. and i do think people need to get involved as much as possible to protest whether whether you're.

>> whether people are tired. walid. >> no, that's a real thing. no. >> what if they tired? >> that sense of exhaustion. >> i. >> would say, is. >> a real thing. look. look at the federal workers. these are workers who were not political before november, before elon musk and doge started. they are bureaucrats. they are civil servants. they are people in charge of making sure your water is clean, your food is safe, that workplaces are safe for all the workers, that corporations aren't exploiting people. i've been so encouraged by federal workers participating in rallies and protests around the country. there's a big day of action, a big day of action. next week, many democrats are bringing federal workers with them to the state of the union. if these workers, who are career public servants are willing to take action, the american people can join them. there's a website they can go to, go public services. i'm i think these workers are going to be central protagonists in the story about what will happen in these elections coming up that ken martin talked about what's going to happen in the midterms and the next, the next presidential election, the public still matters. ordinary citizens getting, getting in town halls, participating in protests and rallies. we can still turn the

tides of public opinion. i saw a cbs poll that says it's still a 5050 country in terms of trump's approval rating. >> and so new mayors poll today said that people believe the state of the union is not strong. i mean, you talk about the town halls. i want to play this town hall. this is rep glenn grothman. he's a republican out of wisconsin, and he talked to some constituents. >> the deal on. >> musk is there. he will be able to raise questions. and because of his fame. and financial success, i think all of a sudden he. >> is going. >> oh. >> he is. >> going to be able. >> to force congress to look at things. >> like aircraft carriers. >> hotels, which. >> would otherwise. >> okay. >> for now. >> there's that theory that walid talked about. these are real people, republican, very red district. i guess i have

about 30s left. my question is, what do you think the republicans are going to see any consequences for the fact that they are dismissing the people like the folks at this town hall, as you know, paid democratic actors or operatives. only if democrats successfully capitalize on this moment. and they have to do that by creating an apparatus that allows the public to immediately engage and channel what everyone is feeling out on the streets on that side of the aisle. if they fail to do that, then republicans will not face those consequences. however, if they create an apparatus which allows for you to plug and play and get involved immediately where you are, they absolutely will. >> well, ali gave you all the website, honey. charles coleman, waleed shahid, thank you both very much folks. that's all for this hour. i'm sandra townsend. i will see you again tomorrow night at 7 p.m. eastern. i'm going to join that panel with psaki and ari melber inside with jen psaki though starts right now.