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>> hi there everyone! welcome to tuesday. it's 4:00 in new york. an act of war. that is how billionaire investor warren buffett. describes donald trump's tariffs and the economic fallout for all americans. bears out. >> buffett's choice of words like touching a. >> hot stove. the trump administration. >> has. >> now fired off the first salvo. >> in what. >> is right now. >> looking like. >> a trade war that will raise. >> the. cost for. >> just about everything. >> americans spend money on. >> it comes 12 weeks after an. >> election in which the price. of stuff like eggs, groceries and housing was top of mind for voters. >> donald trump. >> today imposing tariffs against. >> our three. biggest trading. >> partners, a whopping. >> 25% on all. >> items coming. >> in. from canada. >> and from mexico, and an additional. >> 10% on. >> top of what is currently imposed on china. for some. >> context, 43% of all. the stuff.

>> we buy from abroad. comes from those three countries. unsurprisingly, our largest trading partners are responding to trump's, quote, act of war. china is imposing a tax of up to 15% on goods exported by u.s. farmers. washington post reports this, quote the move. >> targets some. >> of the united states most important exports to china, including soybeans, meat. and grains. canada, which, by the way, is our top supplier of grain and meat and our second largest supplier of auto parts after mexico, is imposing tariffs on $107. >> billion. >> worth of goods from the us. >> prime minister. >> justin trudeau. >> calls donald. >> trump's move to punish canada a, quote. >> very dumb. >> thing to do. the ceo of retail giant target is saying. >> today that the. >> impact for american consumers could be immediate. >> what we know for certain categories, like fruits and vegetables, where during this winter season, we depend on

mexico for a significant amount of supply. now, those are categories where we'll try to protect pricing, but the consumer will likely see price increases over the next couple of days. >> over the next. >> couple of days. >> so those go in instantaneous supply chains. you think about all the fresh produce. you know, we depend on mexico during the winter. we're going to try to make sure we can do everything we can to protect pricing. but if there's a 25% tariff, those prices will go up for. >> things like what? >> strawberries, avocados? bananas. >> what are. >> we talking about? you got that list, right? >> is that so? >> those are some of the key items. >> and those. >> prices could. >> change within. >> days in the stores. certainly over the next week. >> within the next week. and there's more. trump has promised tariffs on aluminum and steel, agricultural products. >> and foreign cars. >> in the next few weeks, just adding to the turmoil and uncertainty in the global economy. there's a lot at stake here for. just about everyone. the tariffs impact the pocketbook issues that keep people up at night. they have the power to sway elections, but

they're also our standing in the world. new york times reports this quote, if canada and mexico decide that america is no longer a reliable partner, when that keeps its word and prizes stability over. >> chaos. >> they may seek other customers for their goods. they could even turn to u.s. adversaries like china. america would end up more isolated on. >> the world stage. >> the issue isn't just about trade, it's about america's alliances in general. no larger sign of our isolation right now than this. officials from our normally friendly neighbor to the north talking tough to and about us. here's the premier of ontario, doug ford. >> if they want. >> to try to annihilate ontario, i will do everything, including cut off their energy with. >> a smile on my face. >> so i'm encouraging every other province. >> to do. the same. >> quebec. manitoba, bc we all have to act. >> in unison. >> out east, they rely on our

energy. they need to feel. >> the pain. >> they want to come at us hard. we're going to come back twice as hard. >> donald trump. >> launching a trade war that will cost consumers and hurt american businesses and potentially leave america isolated on the world stage, is where we start today with the aforementioned premier of ontario, doug ford. premier ford, thank you for being here. i saw those remarks. i read the coverage of it. just tell us again how, first of all, back up and tell us how trump's moves impact impact your constituents and impact us here at home. >> sure. well, first. >> of all. >> thanks for having me on, nicole. and i have to tell you, canada loves the us. they love the american people. there's one person that's created this chaos. >> and. >> that's president trump. you know, president trump had a mandate to come in and cut costs and create more jobs. that's a

total opposite. manufacturing plants will close. assembly lines will shut down in the auto sector within the next week. unemployment will go up and inflation will go up. cost of gas will go up. and this is the last thing we want to do. we are your number one customer in the world. the canada, we buy more products than anyone. we buy 400% more vehicles than mexico, 200% more than any jurisdiction in the world. and by the way, you know, you take the energy, the 4.3 million barrels that we ship down every single day to keep your economy going. take that off the balance sheet. the us has a $56 billion trade surplus with canada, and i have no problem with that. ontario alone is the engine of canada. we're the largest economic driver. if we were a standalone country, it would be the third largest trading partner in the world to the us. ontario alone,

we're the number one trading partner to 17 states. number 2 to 11 other ones. and across canada, we're the number one trading partner to 28 states. i want to ship the us more electricity. i want to ship them more high grade nickel. that 50% of your economy and your military relies on nickel, high grade nickel coming from ontario. we have more critical minerals than anywhere in the world. i don't want to go to china. i don't want to ship it out. but he keeps putting, you know, these threats and trying to attack our families and our businesses. we'll have no choice. and i'm the first to say, you know, let's tariff china. they're the problem. not not your closest friend and ally. we up here in canada, we find it ironic. we love the americans. and here he is cozying up to putin. you got to be kidding me. when we stood shoulder to shoulder with each other for a couple of centuries, right now, through tough times,

and we were there for the americans, and you've been there for us. so this is, as far as i'm concerned, nicole. it's the craziest thing i've ever seen in my life. but we're going to get hurt. but the americans are going to get hurt tremendously. >> let's go through some of the items and just help me understand and us understand the interconnectedness that that makes this possible. you said this today. i'm writing to every senator, congressman and woman and the governors from new york state, michigan and minnesota telling them that if these tariffs persist, if the trump administration follows through on any more tariffs, we will immediately, immediately apply a 25% surcharge on the electricity we export. we will not hesitate to shut off their power as well. could could the could the lights go out in in some of those states where you supply electricity? >> well. >> that's the last thing i want to do. but i'm going to

implement immediately 25% surcharge. we keep 1.5 million homes and businesses lit up in new york state, in michigan, in minnesota. i've talked to all three governors and i you know, i have to apologize to the american people that we're going through this. this is totally unnecessary. we're your strongest ally. but to answer your question, yes, when our plants start shutting down and we have large unemployment lines and people are trying to pay their mortgages and put food on their table, i will use every single tool in our tool kit to fight back. and that's the last thing i want to do. nicole i love the americans. i spent 20 years of my life in chicago and new jersey, and all canadians love americans. it's one person that's causing this problem and it's unacceptable as far as i'm concerned. let's continue building the two strongest nations in the world. i call it the american fortress. we have the critical minerals. we have the energy. we have the steel and the aluminum that you need.

we have the lumber to build their homes. and he's going after it all. so what else do we what else can we do? we're going to start shipping it to countries around the world. and that's what we're going to do. we have more critical minerals than anywhere in the world right here in ontario. so, you know, let's let's work this out. let's move forward and let's be two great partners, as we have been for a couple hundred years. >> you ripped up ontario's contract with starlink. explain that. >> well, we tore it up. i can't have anyone who's connected so deeply with president trump trying to destroy our province and try to destroy our our country. it's unacceptable. i also were the largest purchaser of alcohol in the entire world. ontario is. we have a liquor control board. so it all goes through the province. we ship up

3600 products from the us, from 35 states. we have now cleared off all alcohol across all the shelves. and i just encourage all our premiers, which they just agreed to. they're pulling all their alcohol off. so states like kentucky, their bourbon, they're going to be laying people off. they may be shutting parts of their plants down, which again, as far as i'm concerned, is unacceptable. we shouldn't have to be doing this whatsoever. i'm going to stockpile the high grade nickel and sell to the rest of the world that china. china has the, you know, the market cornered on it. 50% of your products that you manufacture nickel with in the military come from ontario. that's that's stopped. i'm cutting off everything we possibly can. i don't want to do it. i'd rather do the opposite. should be more high grade nickel and more lithium and more cobalt. and every other critical mineral that we have up here. but unfortunately, there's one

person that should be held accountable, and that's president trump. >> premier ford, i have the governor of kentucky on the program. later in the hour. just to explain, i mean, i believe that that that the vast majority of the world's supply of bourbon is made in kentucky. when you take all of the alcohol made in america, including all of the kentucky made bourbon off the shelves, what do you replace it with? >> well, again, you know, we're going to have to go other places. maybe they're going to drink some canadian rye instead. the bourbon. right. >> it's something these days. >> i love the governor of kentucky. this isn't his fault. it's not the people of kentucky's fault. it's none of the americans fault. there's one person doing this in the entire country, and we're both going to feel the pain. we're going to feel the pain. but when they

start shutting down the assembly lines on the auto sector and the market, you know, picked up a little bit, it's going to start tanking. the market hates uncertainty, as you know. and this is this is a fraction of the tariffs that we have. when i say a fraction it's one fifth of the tariffs from the federal government, not to mention have cut off every single procurement in our in our province, over $230 billion that that us companies bid on and they get rewarded. so those are all done. everything is done until these tariffs get dropped. there's nothing that makes me happier than to move forward on the usmca deal. i love the americans. i love the us. please to the congress. men and women, to the governors, to the senators, republican or democrat, by the way, none of them agree with it. the behind closed doors. i met with endless amounts of elected officials. please contact president trump

and tell them this is this is crazy, absolutely crazy chaos he's created, which is which i've never seen before. >> you are taking an approach with him that not a ton of people take to sort of confront his attempts to bully with strength. what do you and what do the canadian people who i've seen boo in some instances at at the anthem in there? i think disappointment maybe with our change in leaders. what what is this about this fight with canada, this talk about annexing canada as the 51st state. >> you know, something were hurt. we love the americans. we always believed that the us is part of the family. you know, we're like the little brother or little sister. and we've always had an excellent relationship. go back to ronald reagan's quotes back in 1988 when he addressed the country on the radio. he said it very clearly. this is the worst thing he could ever do. go around and promoting

protectionism, protectionism against your greatest friend and ally and then waving the american flag. that's not right. that doesn't work. both countries get hurt when it comes to this. but again, i'm going to apologize again to the american people. it's not you. we love you. but the president needs to stop the chaos that he has created personally. >> ontario premier doug ford, we're going to turn to you again on this as it plays out. thank you for your time today. >> well, god bless america and god bless canada. let's get through this. >> thank you. >> thank you sir. i want to bring in to our coverage former republican congressman, msnbc political analyst david jolly with me at the table, anchor and correspondent for bloomberg news. david gura is back. the we were talking before before the show started. a lot of what is happening could have been predicted. donald trump is not

sneaky. in the second incarnation of himself. what was it about businesses that sort of failed to recognize how devastating the promised tariffs would be? >> you know, i think. >> that. >> people recognized it, but thought. >> optimistically that. >> he wasn't going. >> to. >> go through with it. >> i think that they. >> thought that that wiser heads would prevail here. >> and just listening to the premier there speaking, there's a. >> loneliness or uniqueness. >> to donald. >> trump that's coming. >> across here. >> and i. >> think as. >> he goes to address. >> congress and the. >> american people tonight. >> he's going to have. >> to. >> sell themselves. he's going have to sell. >> them on something. >> that i think. a lot. >> of people. >> a aren't engaged. >> with. >> i don't think a lot about and don't. >> support him on. >> and as you heard there, it's going to become. >> clear very quickly. >> how devastating this can be. >> for regular americans. >> across this country. >> yes. >> we're going to see. >> prices go up pretty quickly. but even more. >> than that, we see an economy that's kind. >> of. >> suffused with this level of uncertainty about what's going to happen. >> so the stock market plunged

yesterday. >> we know. >> he hates that happened again today. yes it might rebound some. but it it captures investor anxiety. about what he's. >> doing here how long this is going to last. and you see that in the way that these have been rolled out. i mean there was. >> this sense on. >> inauguration day he had that raft of executive orders signed. were tariffs. going to be a part of that? and they weren't. and we've seen this kind of postponement. >> of them. >> so they finally come into place. and again he occupies. >> a very lonely position among. policy makers. it's a position that's very outmoded. when you look. >> at academic. >> literature, what people say. >> when. >> they look. >> at history, economic history. >> i think that he perhaps underestimates how difficult it's going to be to make the case to the american people. this is something that. >> despite all of that, what's happened in the past, what academics have written about this, it's going to go differently this time around. and i should say we had a metric from the atlantic fed, the atlanta fed this week. >> that showed growth slowing. >> this white. house depends so much on a surge in growth for all of this somehow to miraculously work. and signs of that, coupled with kind of general sentiment indicators about anxiety among consumers and investors and business owners, doesn't spell much good for them, i don't think. >> how do we know? and i just want to play with this assumption that he wants the

economy to cook. no economist before he was reelected or since has suggested that any of these things combat inflation or grow the economy or stabilize the job situation, or help american farmers, or help american industry. david jolly. >> nicole, i. >> love the. context of. that because i'm not. >> sure he. >> does want it. >> to grow. >> i mean, it's. >> interesting. >> we naturally. presume that donald. >> trump's vanities and. >> his quest for. greatness in his own mind. >> he wants the economy. >> to be white hot. >> for all people. and he's willing to. to sacrifice the long term economic health. >> of the country. >> if he can get four years worth of economic growth. but to your point, if you are trying to destroy the country from within, you would do everything donald trump has done in the first 50 days. and i don't mean that as hyperbole. that kind of three major categories of his first 50 days. first is, do you would you would break the federal government's ability to deliver

services to people here at home and abroad. you would completely crush the ability for the people's government to deliver services to them. secondly, you would break international security relationships and agreements, which is exactly what we've seen him do with putin and putting the vice around not just zelensky, but now europe is looking at us with kind of a side eye saying, wait, now we have to step up more and surround zelensky. but does that put us adverse to the united states as the us becoming closer to russia than it is to nato? that's a fair question. after the events of the last week. and then you would break the us economy if you were trying to destroy the country from within, you would do what donald trump has done in the first 50 days. and i think on this last point, david gura makes makes an interesting thing. this is an interesting point. this is a hard case to sell to the american people because arguably there is no economic strategy behind this, right? he notionally makes this about a non economic reason about

fentanyl and drugs, which is absurd. donald trump pardoned one of the largest drug dealers the world has ever seen, with the silk road founder and operator just about 30 days ago. this is not about creating domestic industry and empowering domestic industry. that happens one click at a time, like you're moving a battleship. this is just donald trump saying, i'm going to extract pain from from the world, but also the american people. that's a hard case to make tonight. >> and the calls against this are coming from inside the house. i have to sneak in a break, but i'm going to show you some of the rising alarm over at fox news today. also ahead for us, a crucial new data point today in a disturbing trend from trump's d.o.j. you want to hear what a member of the senate judiciary committee has to say to us about it later in the hour? plus, the president of ukraine saying he's ready to try again and make a deal to help end the war that has ravaged his country. after donald trump last night said he was stopping all military aid to ukraine. and later in the broadcast,

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arearn: saint jude-- they gave it 110% every time. and for kenadie to get treatment here president trump without having to pay anything was amazing. addresses both chambers of congress. rachel maddow and team will break down the speech and its impact at home and abroad. the joint address to congress. special coverage tonight at eight on msnbc. >> what we do is try to cut right to the bone of what we're seeing in washington that day. >> i do think we have to listen to businesses in this country right now, like the ceo of. target just this morning said, look, you know, we're going to try to protect the consumer as much as we can, but prices will go up. best buy ceo just came out and said, majority of our goods come from china and mexico. our prices are going to go up. this is a president who

promised he was going to tackle the affordability prices crisis. so we're going to have to watch that very carefully. i print out this sheet from our brain room every single day. i look at it. consumer confidence has taken a 13% hit since election day. we need to note that people are going to be watching these prices. housing prices have not come down. in fact, they've gone up 13%. new home median sales price. this is all part of that affordability crisis that didn't start under this administration, to be clear. we saw this happening over the past four plus years. but this this administration will be judged on when and by how much those prices eventually come down. >> a shocking thing to see on fox news. so i wanted to lift it up. this administration will be judged by when and how these prices eventually come down. how do they come back down, david? >> not this way. >> and i think that she makes a very good point. >> which is this was. >> the crux of what. >> the last. >> campaign depended on. >> people were very frustrated.

>> with inflation and how long it took to come down. yes, it had come down some, but not sufficiently, and people were still hurting and grappling with that. i think. >> that there is a lot of. >> pressure on president trump in the speech tonight. >> and going forward to. >> spell out in some. way what plan he has to bring them down. and we can talk about eggs and laugh about eggs. but this is serious business for a lot of people. and i think that suggesting we could have another czar dealing with prices isn't going to cut it for a lot of folks here. but going back to what the target ceo said, this kind of inflation tariff smoothie of bananas and strawberries and avocados, i mean, these are things that already had been expensive, that people depend on, that they want to buy. >> day in and day out. >> and i think what we're going to see here going forward, if we. >> look. >> at. >> the old. >> playbook from the last term, is him, the president probably wielding some pressure on these ceos to do more. but this is a tall ask. i mean, tariffs. fundamentally definitionally are a tax. >> on on importers. and that by and. >> large has to get passed down to consumers. and going back to what i said just a few minutes ago, it may take some time, days or weeks, but. >> it's going to. >> trickle down and people are going to feel it. and then i

very much wonder what the messaging is going to be, what this president is going to say, when in fact that happens. >> donald trump's. >> political crisis of the first term. david jolly wasn't just the death and illness that his indifference and incompetence around covid ushered in. it was the supply chain disruptions that halted new construction. it was the disruptions to imports and exports. it was the inability for everything from medicine to lumber to clothes to produce, to make its way into our country and out. and in this instance, absent a pandemic, he seems to be manufacturing the very conditions that led to his being voted out of office. why? >> yeah. >> that's right. and i would say a tangible difference is, even during that economic disruption of covid, the consumer experience wasn't as bad as it was anticipated. right. we expected the collapse. we kind of saw this broad collapse. but there was broad based stimulus from the federal government. interest rates came way down, and all of a sudden people saw a surging economy, which created

the inflation we now suffer from. so even then, there was fear around the economy as donald trump was leaving office, but i'm not sure it had been fully absorbed. this is very different. there is no additional stimulus here. stagflation is a possibility now. very soon. david gura mentioned the atlanta fed model showing negative growth this quarter, a significant downturn. we don't know if that will actually come come into place or not, but if it does you're talking about continued inflation with negative growth. you're talking about stagflation. and i think we got to tell from commerce secretary howard lutnick, i believe it was on a sunday show, if not yesterday, when he suggested what we need to do is pull the government market data out of the gdp numbers, which is absurd, which is laughable across the world. this is a standard that's always been used. this is a trick that china uses to manipulate their gdp data if they need to. i think what we saw from secretary lutnick on behalf of donald trump is real fear and panic that the economy is actually

heading in exactly the wrong direction. donald trump is contributing to its downfall, and there's nobody to blame now but him. and there's also no solution. there's no stimulus coming, and he does not control the fed. this could be a very painful year, not just politically for donald trump, but for the american consumer. and that brings his numbers way down. we see a political correction as much as an economic correction. >> and manufacturing. the data won't stem stories like this. this is vaughn hillyard talking to some american farmers. >> what do you anticipate. >> the market looking. >> like this year? >> sad. >> sad. >> we don't feel like we've. been lied to. we knew we were being lied to when every time he would say these things. and talk about. >> tariffs and you'd. >> think. >> oh, lord, here we go again. because i don't think. >> tariffs do much. i mean, they have a spot i suppose, but not just opposed. just like the cuts

in the government itself. >> right now. it's one thing when. >> something is applied. >> with. >> some kind of. >> plan. but the just across the board say. >> cut off. >> their head. >> i mean. >> it's. >> like you're living in alice in wonderland. >> farmers talk about alice in wonderland. warren buffett's talking about the tooth fairy. no one approves of the plan. so where who's calling the shots? who? what is the economic ideology of the second trump presidency? >> it is straight from. trump talking about his uniqueness. i mean, his love for the word tariffs is unique. and he's. trying to sing from that hymnal and get those in his ministration to sing along with him there. but i think it's. >> really important what. >> you heard from that pair of farmers there in iowa. we talk a lot about manufacturing. we've talked about target and these big retailers. i think that this is going. to if not. >> disproportionately. >> it's. >> going to seriously. >> hit farmers in this country. these are farmers. who want to sell what they grow. they see the market opportunities outside of this country, and they don't want to take a cut to sell them

here into the united states. they don't want. >> tariffs to. >> have a negative effect on their business here. and i think. >> that's going. >> to be interesting story to follow. here is how folks in the heartland of this country, in agriculture, who are also mystified by this series of policies to what's happening here, deal with all of this, and i think make their thoughts on that known to their lawmakers can be fascinating to follow. >> to see if they have any more opportunities to do that. the lawmakers are being told to, quote, hide from their constituents. so maybe they'll send a letter. david gura, thank you for being here, making sense of it for us. david jolly sticks around for the rest of the hour. next for us, the top d.c. prosecutor, who calls himself trump's lawyer, has quietly launched a revenge filled fishing expedition into. one of the top democrats in washington, d.c. up next, senate judiciary member sheldon whitehouse joins us on the weaponization of the department of justice under the second trump administration. second trump administration. that's next. at wayfair, we get pretty excited about furniture. around here it's not a patio, it's a pati- ...ohhhh!!! i love those chairs!!!

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♪ (man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. broke of the forced resignation of an fbi giant, an agent's agent named james dennehy, who promised to dig in and stand with and by the fbi workforce and fears of retribution have already taken hold, according to nbc news. quote, dennehy's removal is likely to reignite fears of mass retaliation. and then there's ed martin, the top prosecutor in washington, d.c, who has been on a tear to go after the perceived

political enemies of donald trump. on friday, he demoted several federal prosecutors people who worked on january 6th cases, including the lead prosecutors on both the oath keepers and proud boys seditious conspiracy cases. now, this week, martin is pushing to present evidence against senate minority leader chuck schumer to a federal grand jury for comments he made about supreme court justices. according to the new york times, quote, justice department officials have thus far rebuffed the unusual request by martin, a partizan ally of president trump, with no previous prosecutorial experience. any one of these acts, taken in isolation, show a politicization of the rule of law in the department of justice under donald trump. but taken together, these acts portray the very portrait of weaponization that donald trump has yearned for and that republicans have accused democrats of doing for years now. joining our coverage is senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island. he's a member of

the senate judiciary committee. in the republicans conduct, there's always a projection and a deflection and the weaponization of the doj. and the fbi is a hard story to cover because by design, those are opaque agencies, right? to protect the prerogatives and the rights of the accused and people under investigation. but the purging of the department under republican president of folks who have clerked for kavanaugh and scalia and thomas and, you know, other conservative justices is such a stark indicator of just how political they want to be and not necessarily conservative. what do you what do you make of how far they've gone down, this politicization and weaponization rabbit hole? >> as you've stated with maga types, accusation usually signals intention. you accuse your adversary of what you plan

to do. so the whole weaponization saga that they've talked about and talked about and talked about and talked about was essentially a defense of explaining why donald trump, the criminal, was convicted of the crimes and then be a warm up for their ability to actually weaponize the department of justice. >> and what. >> going after these very senior, very respected people who have these terrific academic backgrounds. i mean, when you're a supreme court law clerk, you can make a lot of money doing anything you want. and when you want to work in the department of justice, it's because you care about that. and you are a very, very respected person. and so to take those people and trash them is done both to get them out of the way, but. >> also to send. >> a message to everybody else, we don't care who you are, we don't care how good you are. >> we're throwing you out. >> of the department. >> if you. >> don't kowtow to our. political motivations here. and

what they don't seem to understand is it is the job of the senior fbi people to stand watch and police those institutional guardrails that protect the integrity of the fbi. so they're doing their job when they're doing this, and it's causing them to be fired. and the signal. >> what can democrats do in the minority to be debriefed by folks like danielle sassoon or james dennehy about the weaponization and about what is actually happening right now? >> yeah, i think we've got to step a little bit carefully because they've done a very professional thing. they have been asked to do something that violates the rules of the department and the standards for the administration of justice. and they said, no, i won't do that. and instead of saying, okay, and backing off this, trump administration has ushered them out the door. what they did

wasn't partizan. what they did was simply doing their jobs. again, standing watch over the guardrails that protect all of us from abuse of prosecution, whether it's a president who wants vengeance or some, you know, kid right out of law school who doesn't know the rules and has a dumb idea and needs to be told no, no, no, no, we're not going with that case, son. get a little experience. whatever it is, that's what they do. and the extent to which, you know, you want to kind of recruit them into the partizan discussion of this. yeah, i just have a bit of a hesitation because i think these are, you know, these people, people's stories stand on their own. they are really proud. but i do think it's helpful to understand the context in which this is happening. these are the guardians at the gate who protect the integrity of the department. and when people of their skill, when people of their training, when people of their backgrounds are being fired, that's a warning sign. >> well, let me ask the question a little differently. i didn't mean that democrats engaged him

in any partizan conduct, but the committees have an oversight role over the department of justice and the fbi and law enforcement functions at the federal level. what? without an active partner for many republicans? well, let me ask you this. are there any partners? are there any republicans? yeah. i mean, are there any republicans on the committee who are interested in protecting the likes of danielle sassoon? >> well, it's the chairman. it's chuck grassley who would make that decision. the chairman sets the agenda, scheduled the hearings, decides what to do. so that's the question that i guess our ranking member, dick durbin, would have to ask him for. now, what we can do is to follow the story and to explain to the public, as you have done so well, nicole, that this is a really significant alarm sign going off within the department of justice from people who have no reason to be like opposed to a republican administration.

>> yeah. i mean, i guess that's what's so stunning to me as an ex republican. these are the kinds of people that my old boss would have desperately wanted to retain inside the department of justice through a democratic, certainly to a republican administration. let me ask you about this. the new york times is reporting. >> is that this guy, ed martin, who's been involved in a lot of this, you know, he's kind of a lowlife himself. he's never been a prosecutor. he comes in full of partizan rancor and trump maga spirit. he has no respect for what's happening around him. i don't know if he even understands the role that he's in properly. and to see him force out these really proud career people who are huge assets to the department, it's the world gone topsy turvy. >> well, and it's the world gone. it's the republican maga world moving beyond anything right left on an ideological spectrum and moving more sort of up down around weaponization and politicization, which was trump's stated public goal for

his entire first four years. i want to ask you about attacks on on judges. the new york times is reporting that elon musk and republican lawmakers are pressuring judges with impeachment threats. republican representative andrew clyde and eli crane are launching a judicial task force to expose what they call, quote, judicial activism. representative clyde announced in february he was drafting articles of impeachment against a rhode island based district judge. that's your home state. how do we protect our judges? >> well. >> at the moment, it's the marshal service and the courts that are gathering around the judges. the threat to impeach judge mcconnell in rhode island is kind of dumb. political noise puts much, much scarier is when elon musk tweets hostile news

out about a judge, and then that gets picked up by the flying monkeys. i call them of the far right who dwell on the internet and make vile, disgusting personal threats to people and hunt down who their family members are. they posted a picture of judge mcconnell's daughter, and that gets very personal and very threatening, and does require security and is completely out of bounds. i mean, if you really think that judge mcconnell should be impeached, bring it. that's not going to work. but these dark threats from people across the internet threatening really vile personal abuse to people and to their families, that's what they're trafficking in. that's the worst part. elon launches that stuff on purpose. he is groomed. this coterie of flying monkeys on the x to go out and do their job when he, you know, fly my pretties sends them. and it's that targeting that i think

is the scariest because it could end in really serious physical violence. >> the two things together create this, this climate that is really unprecedented. senator, i have to take a break. can i ask you to stick around through the break and come back to this? okay. we'll be back. to this? okay. we'll be back. we'll —hi! —hi! ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. ♪♪ with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪ deposit checks easily and send money quickly. [coins clinking] ♪♪ that's convenience from chase. make more of what's yours. [restaurant noise] allison. [swooshing sound] introducing allison's plaque psoriasis. ♪♪

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>> what was coming. they stood down. the more we find out. about how. staged and. >> managed this was, the. >> more. >> we have to have. >> less judgment on somebody. >> who hits. >> a. >> cop, or. >> especially when we've. >> seen they. >> were firing. >> tear gas into the crowd long. >> before it was. >> operationally appropriate. >> that was washington, d. c. s top federal prosecutor, ed martin, in an interview last year downplaying the acts of violence carried out against law enforcement officials protecting the u.s. capitol on january 6th. we're back with senator sheldon whitehouse and david jolly. senator, what is what is sort of the best case scenario for how much democrats can protect the rule of law, at least in these first two years of trump's presidency. >> well. >> spotlights matter. attention matters. making sure that the department is following its procedures matter. this character, ed martin, just tried to get a grand jury

investigation opened on chuck schumer for the terrific offense of having quoted from the bible. at the same time that he's pretending that people who actually beat cops and injured them with weapons shouldn't face any consequences, and that botched effort ran afoul of the procedures of the department of justice. so at least there's that sign. some safeguards are working there, and i think we need to make sure that people in the department who have those jobs understand that they will be supported when they do their jobs. >> david jolly, the ability to understand what's happening inside the department does chill a little bit. every time someone like james dennehy is, is, is driven out. and he wrote an extraordinary resignation letter, as did danielle sassoon, as did her deputy on the eric adams case. so these these two things are from california. so

there's always the san andreas fault sort of analogy coming from me, but pressing against each other in a way that that it feels like it could lead to a spectacular rupture. >> yeah, there's. >> a bit. >> of circular analysis here. i mean, one of the things we've seen in these first 50 days is a number of brave people standing up, either in a political situation using their senate seat like sheldon whitehouse has, or the case of the acting u.s. attorney in s.d.n.y. saying, i'm resigning. i'm not following your direction. what we're seeing from the igs and others, what we're seeing from world leaders who are now treating donald trump like the bully he is as opposed to a world leader. those are those are great moments. but where the circular analysis does come in is with all of these resignations, there's also an equal chilling effect. i think your your words exactly right. the chilling effect. not only does it remove those voices from the process and those checks on accountability, but it honestly chills people who are otherwise considering contributing to kind of the professional, legal or

political resistance to this. i mean, we all know his ability to launch an investigation is sufficient to quiet some voices who can't afford representation or can't afford the disruption of their life using either a judicial investigation or a department of justice investigation and audit. a termination of employment for people considering running in 2026. there are so many opportunities right now for democratic candidates to step up. this could be a great midterm, but if you're one of those potential candidates, you're thinking, am i willing to step into the fray in a high profile environment and subject myself to a possible investigation through the weaponization of the department of justice or financial audit? this is already having a chilling effect, and i think if that is the only thing the trump administration accomplishes, and they are short of any actual charges or convictions, because most of these are superfluous and meaningless investigations, they've achieved what they hope to do, which is to quiet the voices of dissent. >> senator whitehouse, are you going to be there tonight?

>> i've got my gag reflex. just isn't working for that. >> i don't know. >> no. >> that. well, thank you for sharing that with us. and thank you for joining us today. david jolly, thank you for spending the hour with us. we're going to the hour with us. we're going to snea come on. you should go to t-mobile, and they'll give you a brand new iphone 16 on them. shhh! go to t-mobile, and get iphone 16 with apple intelligence on us on our most popular plans. plus get up to $800 when you switch. ♪♪ feel. >> like new. >> sunglasses. like a brand new pair. >> of jeans. >> i feel alive. >> brand new.

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get your own paychex recruiting copilot now at. >> we have. >> aligned ourselves completely with. russia. who is aligned with china, north korea and iran. so in five weeks we flipped the script and. >> we are. >> dangerously isolated. >> and cast our lot with. >> adversaries who. >> truly do not have our interests. >> at heart. >> this is where we are, folks. hi again. it's 5:00 in new york. we have flipped the script. according to former ambassador to the united nations, susan rice. and it's only been furthered by donald trump's latest move to temporarily suspend u.s. military aid to our

ally, ukraine. it's a complete abandonment of our democratic ally at a time of war. it is a gift, no matter how you slice it or dice it. to russia's brutal dictator once called a murderous thug by marco rubio, vladimir putin. it's a move so black and white that even some republicans are calling it out. here's republican senator thom tillis of north carolina. >> i can't go. >> along because. >> the only person that. >> benefits is putin. >> look. >> if i am. >> putin. >> i'm loving. >> the pause. i'm plussing up troops at the border. i'm trying. >> to get more drones from iran. i'm trying to get more crap from north korea. i'm getting the illicit. >> money coming. >> from china. >> and i'm loving. >> the pause. >> and i'm loving this cessation of. >> resupply to ukraine. >> now, if i'm. in the. western world, i'm. >> hating it. >> because we know. >> putin's a liar. >> and. a murderer, and giving. >> him time. >> is not a good idea. >> so what's your. >> message to the administration? >> putin's a. >> liar and a murderer. >> let's get it right with ukraine. >> putin's a liar and a murderer. let's get it right

with ukraine. totally inconsistent with what the trump administration is doing there. pause in supplying military aid comes three days after the ambush of vladimir president zelensky in the oval office, where donald trump and jd vance accused president zelensky of not being sufficiently grateful for the united states support in its war with russia. today. zelensky, with a new appeal out addressing that concern, no matter how unfounded it is, says this quote i would like to reiterate ukraine's commitment to peace. none of us wants an endless war. ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. we do really value how much america has done to help ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. and we remember the moment when things changed, when president trump provided ukraine with javelins. we are grateful for this. our meeting in washington at the white house on friday did not go the way it was supposed to be. it is

regrettable that it happened this way. it is time to make things right. we would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive. over the last three years, aid from the us has been critical to ukraine's strength on the battlefield. washington post reports this quote ukraine has relied on the us for tens of billions of dollars in tanks, helicopters, missiles, artillery, fighter jets and armored vehicles over the course of the war. kyiv is also dependent on u.s. intelligence support for firing long range rockets and missiles at russian targets. former ambassador to russia friend of the program michael mcfaul, in reacting to trump's pausing of military aid, echoed what we heard from ambassador rice on friday. quote, imagine if roosevelt lost the 1940 election to an american firster who then had the u.s. switch sides in world war two. before we were attacked, we'd all be speaking german now. that's why this current moment, that's what this current moment feels like three years into a war between an

imperialist dictatorship with autocratic allies and a democracy. donald trump just switched sides. that's where we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. a staff writer for the atlantic, author of autocracy, inc. anne applebaum is back, joining us from the washington post. national security reporter john hudson is here. and lucky for us, claire mccaskill is here at the table for the hour. and i think ambassador mcfaul puts it out there in a way that people have been sort of saying behind closed doors, going into and out of munich, that it is as if the united states switched sides in 1940, and instead of fighting alongside the allies, joined the axis powers. how is that realignment going over in european capitals? >> first of. >> all, i. >> don't think i. >> can exaggerate. how much people are treating this as a

major change. i was in germany. >> yesterday and. >> heard one. >> german politician say. it's as if the transatlantic has. >> a. >> terminal illness. i don't feel. >> its alliance has a. >> terminal illness and i. >> don't see. that it. >> will recover. i mean, i actually think that's too negative. >> i think. >> it. >> could recover, but. >> the. >> the, the. >> effect, first. >> of all. >> of vance's speech in munich, which attacked european allies in a way they didn't expect. and in a strange context, secondly. >> the trump. >> administration's adoption of. >> really russian propaganda. >> when speaking about president zelenskyy calling him a. >> dictator, saying that he started. >> the war, and. >> then the oval office meeting, which seemed. >> you know, it. >> was. just bullying. it was almost like an imperial power speaking to a. subjugated colony. it didn't it didn't feel like collegial or a or or. even a friendly relationship. i mean, i think all those things put together have made people. question whether the united. states is still committed.

>> to its. >> 80 year long alliance, whether we value the zones of prosperity that we've helped to create in europe and in asia, that we've benefited from the economic relationships, the political relationships, the cultural relationships. i mean, suddenly all of that looks like it's in question. and i, you know, it feels like an earthquake. it feels like a big moment. >> of change. >> i mean, i again, i want to stress that i don't feel that anything is irreversible. and i don't, you know, i'm very anxious that none of these relationships end, but it's certainly clear that the our allies in europe and, and all over the world are looking and asking whether we are the same kind of country. >> well, and can you just pull that thread a little more tightly for us because it it feels like covering it from the outside. one of the distinctions now is, is the people around trump that, you know, mike pence never would have castigated an american ally and done the dirty

work, literally saying things straight out of putin's playbook. i mean, bob corker as a senator was constantly trying to affirm the republican party's opposition and sort of a mccain like tradition as a united states senator. there were i think guardrails is too strong, but there were different signals coming from trump's first cabinet and republicans in the senate. those are all gone, largely gone. republicans like marco rubio are now completely reversing decades of rhetoric on vladimir putin as a, quote, murderous thug. he now thinks basically what trump thinks. or at least that's what he says. how how does that sort of how is that being received? >> i mean. >> trump's instincts have always been the same. i mean, he he has disliked alliances for 40 years. he he took out full page ads in american newspapers in 1987

after a trip to moscow, when he came back and he declared that u.s. alliances were were a great burden, he called for a, you know, a withdrawal from europe and from japan, or reconsideration of those military commitments. so he's been saying this for a long time. he's been talking about tariffs for a long time. these are obsessions he's had for decades. but you are right that during his first term, he was surrounded by people who understood the value of those alliances, who understood what they brought for america, what they did for america, how they enhanced american power. they spent a lot of time explaining this to him, john bolton and jim mattis and others, you know, would would, would try to lay it out for trump. they would talk him out of making bad decisions, but they are not there. and it was predictable that they wouldn't bear. in fact, i wrote an article a year before the election saying, you know, be careful because those people won't be there in a second term. they're not there. and instead,

what you've had is people who are attracted to trump and who've been drawn to trump, i think since 2020, since january 6th, who have a much more radical vision of the world and a radical belief that we need to revolutionize america's role in it. again, whether they'll win, i don't know, but they they have a, you know, whether it's a belief that we should bring everything home, start from scratch, dismantle the whole thing, have no foreign policy, or whether it's people who think we would have we would make more money. we would be more prosperous if we were aligned with russia or china. they have they have different kinds of views, but they are they are really determined to change the way the country works, to change the way it appears on the international stage. and of course, that will have implications at home. you know, we tend to think of foreign policy somehow separate from domestic policy. but i think americans understand that what we stand for on the world stage is part of who we are. and i think americans have liked the

idea that we're a force for good in the world, that we're a we're a power who seeks to help countries, that we played a role in the very poorest countries in, in bringing food and medicine, that we promoted the ideals of democracy, at least in theory, if not always in practice, and people like that. and it will be interesting to see how americans feel. if we don't do that anymore, we will be a different country at home, and we will seem different to our own citizens. >> yeah. i mean, it will also be a window into how different to your point the country is now than it was 25 years ago. i mean, george w bush's post 911 policies were unpopular at home, but one of the things that made them more politically devastating to him was that they resulted in massive protests all around the world. and i traveled with him to some of those places. and allies would say, we are going to, you know, keep the lines of communication open, but we have to criticize this policy or or that, and to think that we

are now at a low point from that, when it was so politically suffocating to be so unpopular around the world. and i don't i don't think that had any connectivity to pepfar or. >> the. >> president's affinity and desire and need to be a cause for good and to work with folks like, like bono and tony blair and to try to eradicate aids and malaria on the continent of africa. but to see trump pull all that down, you know, like a petulant child with a shower curtain. i mean, how is the and if you could just pare sort of it happened in the same week, but the week last week that ended in the oval office shaming, public shaming of president zelensky started with usaid completely pulling out the plugs from all the walls of every famine project, every sort of modern infrastructure product, every malaria program, every every program that simply put nets so that children could sleep free from mosquitoes, that could infect them with

infectious diseases. how do those twin withdrawals shape what people think of america and americans today? >> it makes us look not just like the famous stereotype of the ugly american, but the brutal american, you know, the cruel america. i mean, these these look to outsiders like random acts of cruelty. and however they're being justified at home as cost saving, as you know, was zelensky started it. i mean, whatever is the rhetoric we're using inside the united states, i again, cannot exaggerate it. around the world, these are seen as acts of cruelty and a revelation of a different side to america, a different kind of america, one that isn't, you know, doesn't doesn't take the lives of other people out seriously at all. >> john, i want to ask you to bring us up to date on the reporting it broke last night, i think, in the 9:00 hour that

america had completely halted all military aid to ukraine. i think irony is dead, and that this was something that got trump impeached the first time he did it. this time his republican allies went on tv and bragged about it. take me inside. what has happened? zelensky has posted on x today, and it seems to be leading to perhaps something that comes up in tonight's address to congress. >> you're absolutely right. >> we're seeing a. massive sea change. >> from where. >> we were in. >> the first trump administration. >> when a. >> lot of trump's cabinet were. >> very proud. >> that he had sent. javelins t. >> ukraine. >> the first shipment. >> of lethal aid. >> in. >> a very. >> long time. >> to now, where the party is very much getting. >> in line. >> with president. >> trump's decision to really bring. zelensky low. and after berating him in the oval. >> office. >> turning that into. a major.

policy shift, freezing all future deliveries of military assistance to ukraine. it's a little bit complicated in terms of the different pots of military. equipment that this pertains. >> to. >> but there are. >> a lot of different things. at the administration's disposal when it comes to military assistance. presidential drawdown authority, usaid. essentially, this could pertain to. billions of. dollars of. >> equipment. >> things like radar, missiles. >> ammunition. >> things that have been. absolutely essential for ukraine to defend itself against the. >> russians. >> but has become more of a political liability and fractured within the american political system. this is a war that had bipartisan. >> support. >> but is much more divided around partizan lines at this moment. and today you saw an incredible decision by zelensky to then say, you know, regret aspects of the oval office

exchange, which many in ukraine saw as an ambush. but also say that he was very open to a partial ceasefire with the russians. this is something that had been explored over the summer during secret talks that were scheduled to happen in qatar. that didn't end up happening as a result of ukraine's offensive into kursk, all ultimately for the trump administration officials that i've spoken to, they view this as a massive demonstration of presidential power. they were able to bring zelensky into a vulnerable position of fealty to trump in a way that other western leaders hasn't and haven't been able to do. and, of course, allies view this as a betrayal of ukraine during its time of need. >> well, i mean, the irony is there's nothing weaker than bullying a democracy on behalf of an autocracy is mean. it

doesn't take any strength to bully a wartime leader and say, we're going to cut off. congressionally approved military aid. and it's something that's not just norm busting. it's questions of questionable legality. so the idea that there's some perverse celebration of strength and being able to humiliate president zelensky is so twisted, he's he's serving vladimir putin instead. >> yeah. >> so let me use a. >> phrase a friend of mine uses a lot. let me pull. >> a thread. >> i'm going to pull a thread. >> between the tariffs and what he's done to zelensky. and the threat is that he doesn't think he needs anybody. america hasn't changed their mind about ukraine. the republican party has changed. >> their mind. >> about ukraine because of. >> donald trump. he wants to show everyone that he can. >> move an entire. party who was. >> foundational to a position that. >> american good on behalf of democracy was the way to national security.

>> he has. >> switched that completely. >> and now he is with the bad guys. he thinks. >> he. >> can put. >> tariffs in. >> the america can exist in a. global economy. without anybody else. and it. >> is. >> so wrong. we are. >> a global world now. we can talk to. >> people anytime. >> night or day. anywhere in the world. we can travel. anywhere in the world. >> our country. >> is made up from. people from. >> every country. >> in the world. >> and the. idea that. >> he is trying to isolate it all around him, it's. >> just about him. >> and really the thing that makes him look so stupid. >> is he thinks russia is going to be his friend. i mean, russia. >> is never. >> going to be his friend. russia is using him. they are playing him to. leverage for power, because when russia. >> agreed way. >> back when. >> that they would allow ukraine sovereignty. >> if they. >> gave up nuclear.

>> this whole thing. >> has been about. >> putin taking more land, taking away a country that existed and taking it over. and all all zelenskyy. >> is asking for. >> nicole, is. security guarantees and that he would not have. >> to give. >> up the his their. >> nation, their borders. >> that's not a big ask here. so yeah, he he thinks. >> he. >> can go. >> it alone. but there are too many good. >> people in the. >> world. >> i. >> think, especially. >> in. >> europe. >> that are going. >> to step up. now, i will say this. it's a backhanded way to get europe. >> to spend more money on military, because i think. >> they're going to help ukraine. well. >> and i mean, just the one note, i mean, the public isn't where trump is. and to your point, neither is the republican party. 81% of all americans distrust vladimir putin, and 65% of all americans are comfortable with the amount that we're spending to help ukraine or think that we could spend more. so it's the politics of this are

not in donald trump's favor. i'm gonna ask all of you to stick around. we have more with everybody on the other side also ahead for us. how chainsaw wielding elon musk's indiscriminate cuts to the federal government are hurting real people, especially people living in red states. the governor of kentucky will be our guest on why elon musk's latest round of slashing is making later, it is a day ofs safe. protests. all across our country, people taking to the streets in opposition to donald trump and his deeply unpopular first five weeks. it's reached the point where trump is promising a crackdown on protesters in america, while republican leaders are telling their fellow lawmakers to stop holding town halls silly, then they'll go away. the white house continues after a quick break. after last month's massive solar flare continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?" bacon and eggs 25/7. you're darn right. solar stocks are up 20% with the additional hour in the day.

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you think those phone guys will ever figure out how to keep 5g home internet from slowing down powerful relief. during peak hours? their customers have to share a wireless signal with everyone in their area. oooh. you know, it's kinda like when you bring a really big cake for your birthday, and then there's only a little, tiny sliver left for the birthday girl. aw. well, wish her a happy birthday. happy birthday... -it's... ...to her. -no, it's me. have your cake and eat it, too. don't settle for t-mobile or verizon 5g home internet. get super fast xfinity internet you don't have to share. forty's going to be my year. >> last longer, faster, stronger, longer. see if sparks are right for you. as the trump administration forges ahead during these critical first 100 days. rachel maddow is on five

nights a week. more than ever. >> this is not a time to pretend this isn't happening. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. >> i smell a sell out coming when it comes to the ukraine. your last guest mentioned neutrality. well, here's what i would. say that putin wants. he doesn't want a neutral ukraine. he wants. to eradicate ukraine. >> i will. >> be dead set against any deal that requires the ukrainian. people to recognize half of the ukraine. belongs to russia by force of arms. >> and i asked you a version of this question in the last talk, but i want to try to sharpen it. what what do folks make of the conversions? i mean, lindsey graham has been traveling the world. he used to travel with with john mccain and the late, great joe lieberman to reassure fledgling democracies and strong

democracies that america would always be there. what does the world make of men like lindsey graham? >> i mean, i think we can we can agree that much of the world doesn't know who lindsey graham is. and so maybe that's that's a reassurance for. i do think there is there is something people who do follow us politics and watch it closely and talk a lot to americans. i think people are disturbed by this phenomenon of americans who are the frankest, brashest, boldest people on the planet. you know, the people who say what they think and who aren't shy. i think there is something disturbing to people who know and love americans about this sudden cringe, you know, in this, people watching their words and speaking very carefully and suddenly falling in line. i mean, it's just not a way that people thought americans behaved. and as i was saying previously, there is a there's a general feeling that

we're suddenly seeing something new in the united states. and one of them is this level of cruelty and brutality, but also this willingness to, to, to toe the line and that that isn't something that people expected from americans before. >> john, where does the policy process go if it's all being driven by by trump and vance in the oval office? it would appear. what what happens? what is marco rubio doing at state? what is happening in other places if anything? >> yeah, i mean, it's a great question. we've talked a lot about the evolution of different republicans over the last few years. and none more so significant than secretary rubio. from his senate career. it's very clear. i mean, there were a lot of memes that came out that showed secretary rubio looking like the homer simpson meme that wanting to back into a garden hedge. during that incredibly rancorous showdown in

the oval office with zelensky and trump. the process is clearly being driven by president trump, and no one wants to get in his way, in any shape or form. i was reporting a lot on this white house meeting ahead of the massive shift to suspend military assistance to ukraine that had all of the heavy hitters in that meeting. rubio was there. hegseth was there. gabbard was there. you had this this cabinet. people who some are of this restrainer camp that don't mind seeing the united states distance itself from ukraine. and you heard tulsi gabbard make statements about how zelensky was trying to bring the united states into world war three. but then you had folks like rubio who were there in a position to voice their concerns, to get in the way if they wanted to try to do

that. but that's not what secretary rubio has done. whether it is this russia policy or whether it is u.s. aid. remember, rubio was one of the most vocal proponents of foreign aid in the republican party. he is the one who authorized pete morocco to essentially be the arsonist of the u.s. agency for international development. and turn it from a 10,000 strong agency into just a few hundred people, with 90% of its contracts gone. the policy process is president trump, and it isn't anywhere else. >> john bolton said on this program on friday that marco rubio should resign. that marco rubio, unlike some of the, you know, newer characters in whatever season we're in of the trump story, has years of public statements about vladimir putin. he also authored the most scathing investigation into donald trump's campaign's ties to russia that took place far more scathing and revealing even

than the mueller probe. volume one. what? having worked in the senate, what turns men into people who who won't do? i imagine he won't do what john bolton said. i imagine marco rubio won't resign. it's the ugliest. >> ugliest underbelly of politics. >> its power. he wanted power. >> but what power does he wield if he's doing something that his own public statements suggest he. >> isn't that the ironic part? he's. he's jetting around the world as a secretary of state. he's being deferred to. and everyone's. >> treating him with a bow. >> and. oh, aren't you. >> a big deal? >> but really, he's just a lackey for a guy in the oval. >> office who has. >> lost his way. >> in terms of what. >> america is supposed to be. it is. >> it's sad. >> it's disgusting. it's depressing. i don't. >> know. >> how. >> he lives with himself, candidly. >> and, you know, i wonder what mark warner. >> is thinking. >> you know, mark warner. >> was his. partner on. >> intelligence committee. >> they did that investigation together. there was a. >> great deal of bipartisanship in the intelligence committee,

just like the armed services committee. >> and you've had some of the. >> republicans. thom tillis. >> jim lankford. >> the chairman of the. >> armed services committee that. >> has come out and. called putin a. >> murderous thug since friday. >> but what else are they doing? >> are they are they. >> trying to gather the. >> rest of the republican party to say, we've got to stop this mess? are they. >> speaking out to the american. >> people and saying he's. >> not negotiating peace? he's negotiating a giveaway. to yes. trump is not negotiating peace. if he was negotiating peace. >> he would be requiring. >> something of russia. he's requiring nothing of russia. he just wants ukraine to give up. >> and that's what he's. >> going to call peace. and i don't know how marco rubio is going to feel about the way he's written about in history, because this will be what people will remember. not all. >> of his good work. >> as a united states senator. >> and, appelbaum, how does this end? up?

>> i mean, let me just get out my crystal ball and i'll explain to you how it ends. i mean, i don't know how it ends. a lot depends on what europe does. and there are really serious conversations here. there are economic conversations. there's a there are conversations about how to fund defense. there's also a conversation about alternate ways to get to a ceasefire or to a to a peace plan. we haven't heard what actually the trump administration's plan is as, as as claire just said, we haven't we don't know what you know, what's being asked of russia, you know, will they are they being told to stop fighting? we're not we're not sure. you're also seeing, as i said, the sea change in germany and, and in other countries as people appreciate that the world has changed and you'll begin to see different kinds of activity. i remember every action has a reaction. and so trump has made these very aggressive moves. i mean, he he would himself describe them as aggressive. and

there will be a sharp reaction. and they will come probably from unexpected ways. so whatever you think is the outcome, whatever. if you imagine that he's somehow sewn it up or ended the story, you know, through these very decisive moves or through, you know, very definitive statements, that's not how this will end. that's all i can say. >> i, i love that. i agree with that. and i and i respect you not wanting to get too far ahead of the story, but i think that's a good a good note for all of us. anne applebaum and john hudson, the best of the best. thank you for starting us off this hour. when we come back, kentucky governor andy beshear will be here talking about trump's trade war and his reckless cuts to the federal government. how both are hurting the citizens of his state. governor beshear will be our next guest. don't go anywhere. >> sadly. >> windshield chips. >> can turn. >> into windshield cracks. >> but at least you can go to

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brazen and potentially illegal firings of federal government workers, the trump administration has terminated more than 600 employees of noah. noah is the government agency responsible for monitoring and forecasting our weather and natural disasters, things like hurricanes. it's about 10% of the department's workforce. those cuts, coupled with the firing of more than 375 employees at the national weather service, have state and local governments deeply worried about how to protect and prepare their citizens for future natural disasters? take the state of kentucky, which has spent the last two weeks trying to recover from a devastating

flood all across their state. as governor andy beshear puts it, quote, the trump administration laying off national weather service forecasters makes us less safe. we've had 13 federally declared disasters since i've been governor. this last one took the lives of 23 people. it would have taken the lives of so many more. but the national weather service predicted it. we have more than a week to get boat crews out. they made 1000 rescues in 24 hours. without the national weather service, that would not have happened. joining our conversation, democratic governor of kentucky andy beshear is here. governor, thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> say more about the cuts to the folks who protect your citizens from natural disasters. >> these cuts make us less safe, and they put people's lives on the line. like you said, we've had 13 federally declared disasters in. >> the last. five and.

>> a half years. >> my people have been hit hard. >> we lost 81. >> people to a. tornado in 2021. 45 to flooding. >> in 2022 and now 24 in this most recent flooding. but let me tell you, our death toll would have. >> been. >> much higher. but for noaa and. >> the national. weather service. >> they gave. >> us almost a week to prepare for this most. >> recent flooding. >> we were able to take swift. water boat teams and deploy them all over. >> the commonwealth, where we. >> knew we'd get the most rain. and these brave first responders. >> pulled people, you know, moment after. >> moment, minute after minute. >> out of the water. >> and to safety. you know. >> these people, the national. weather service. >> and noaa. >> could probably make more money. >> anywhere else. but they. >> show up and they help. >> the american people. >> they're true. public servants. and when you. >> add this to cut, say, at the. >> cia. >> the analysts trying. >> to. prevent the. >> next 911, i lost. >> a classmate. >> in 911. >> the potential. >> cuts to the fbi where as a.g,

i worked to find and prosecute. child predators with the fbi cuts to potentially the. >> pentagon or homeland. >> security, these. >> all make us less safe. >> and listen, your safety isn't partizan at all. it's something you. want for. >> your family. >> and these cuts are hurting. that, and even. >> worse, they're. >> hurting people like the people that are getting laid off. >> we know them. >> they're hardworking public servants. many of. >> them are veterans. >> they've served our country. and then they come to serve. >> through civil service. >> and you know what? they're getting an email saying they're fired and then. blaming it falsely on their performance. >> it's wrong. >> this administration shouldn't be doing it. but let me tell you, i'm hearing about it all over my state. >> well that's interesting. i mean, the republicans in washington have a strategy for dealing with it, and it's to stop meeting with your constituents. but to your point, i mean, their constituents also are represented by governors and mayors. and i wonder if you can

speak a little bit more to the a political nature of the outcry. >> well, i believe that the things that people worry about most aren't political. >> at all. >> i think people wake up in the morning worried about their job and whether they make enough to support their families. and this new trade war, these tariffs are going to make it harder to support your family. they worry about their next doctor's appointment. >> for. >> themselves, their parents or their kids. and these potential devastating cuts to medicaid are going to make that harder. and you're going to have to drive multiple hours to get there. people worry about the roads and bridges they drive every day. the attempted funding freezes or potentially pulling back on grant programs will mean we're doing less work on those roads and they're less safe. think of they think about dropping their kids off at a public school. and look what's happening at the department of education. and then they think about their safety in their own community. these are the basic worries that if you don't get beyond them, you don't reach anything else.

and i'm convinced that donald trump became president because he was able to convince people that his opponent was more distracted by other issues. and he was focused right there on your everyday needs. but not only has he not been focused on them and focused on anything else, his policies are actually hurting those basic needs and adding to the basic worries of our american people. >> governor, you are. >> governor. >> that's figured out how to do better in. rural areas than. >> many democrats. >> across the country. >> and i think one of the reasons. >> you've been. >> able to do that is because. >> you stay hyper focused on helping people. >> and not. >> doing partizan stuff. >> but i've got to talk to you about. >> the policies of this administration. >> as it. >> relates to rural. >> kentucky, and how devastating. this could be. as you well know. >> more than half of. >> the children. >> in your state. >> are covered by medicaid. >> or the children's. >> health. >> insurance program. >> congress is barreling. towards cutting. dramatically

those funds. they are also looking. >> at. >> cutting funding to medicaid in. >> ways that will devastate rural hospitals. yeah. you're worried about your bourbon industry and you're worried about. >> agriculture and the tariffs. but talk about the children of kentucky and what it dramatic impact this will have on families in terms of them being able to get basic health care needs. >> in rural kentucky. >> you're right. and you know coming from the state that that you come from, the people that that we love. >> the most. >> are our parents and our kids. and when you look at kentucky, but really, most of the nation, you know, half of kentucky's kids are covered by medicaid, 70% of long term care. costs are covered by medicaid. so think about who that's hurting. significant medicaid costs will devastate rural health care, not just in kentucky, but all over the country. hospitals will close, and our people will have to drive two hours to a big city to see the same doctor that they

were seeing in their own community because of these cuts. it will mean that people won't get the checkups that they need, that that keep them alive and making memories with their with their families. it will mean that access, which we've been working so hard in kentucky to increase, will significantly decrease. and in most of our rural communities, after the public school system, the hospital system is the largest employer. so this will have a devastating economic impact on these communities. but i will say i'm really starting to hear from both democratic and republican county and local officials that they get what these cuts would do and that they're against them. >> kentucky governor andy beshear will continue to turn to you. thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. >> when we come back, the pro-democracy movement taking to state capitals all across our country today as thousands of americans protest donald trump's

deeply unpopular authoritarian moves and the equally unpopular agenda he and elon musk are ushering in. we'll bring you that story next. >> tonight, president trump addresses both chambers of congress. rachel maddow and team will break down the speech and its impact at home and abroad. the joint address to congress. special coverage tonight at eight on msnbc. >> we're going to start with breaking news on capitol hill. >> mounting questions. >> over the future of tiktok. >> in the us. >> reporting from philadelphia. >> el paso. >> in the palisades. >> virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> kids, i'm sure you're. >> wondering why your mother and i asked you here tonight. >> it's because. >> it's a buffet of all you can eat. butterfly shrimp and sirloin steak. >> yeah. >> that is the reason. >> i thought it's because i made varsity. varsity. >> you home. it's where we do the things we love with the people we love.

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a deeply unpopular agenda. having to face angry constituents is terrifying republicans politically. this morning, in a closed door meeting, the head of congressional republicans campaigns told republican lawmakers, this just don't do it anymore. don't hold any more town halls in person. good move. try it guys. well, donald trump, for his part, threatened to imprison some protesters writing this on social media, quote, all federal funding will stop for any college, school or university that allows illegal protests. american students will be permanently expelled or, depending on the crime, arrested. thank you for your attention to this matter. joining us now is the president of reproductive freedom for all, our friend mini timmaraju claire. still here? mini. your thoughts? >> you know. >> as an organization, we're a membership organization, nicole. we have 4 million members across the united states. we our lifeblood is activism. you know, since the trump administration

started, we've driven thousands of calls to the capitol protesting various policy decisions, executive orders and really, extremist appointees. this is a direct threat on the strategy that you know and we know is the most effective against an authoritarian regime. and that is amplification and organizing of people's voices. you know, right after the beginning of the year, right before the inauguration, the women's march organized the people's march in washington, d.c, and we had an incredible turnout. kudos to the organizers there, because folks were already fired up and ready to go. we are hearing from our members across the country, they're going to keep showing up at these town halls. and if town halls don't happen, they're going to keep showing up at offices because folks are angry. >> claire. >> yeah, i think first of all, that tweet. >> if you think about. >> how we've talked about how un-american his. >> foreign. >> policy is and how un-american. >> many of the. >> things he's doing. >> how un-american.

>> is it to say. >> that you can't protest in america? i mean, has this guy ever even looked at the constitution? i mean, they want to talk about. >> freedom of speech. >> they want to talk about not censoring people online or threatening people with being arrested and threatening colleges with funding because people want to protest. i mean, you think about college campuses. that's where all kinds of folks, young people, are testing. >> their voices. >> they are trying to become active in their community and find their way in the world. it is so, i think should be treasured in our country. and by the way, i remember when there were town halls around obamacare. i remember the tea party town halls. i was there for all of those. i made fun of my democratic colleagues who said the tea party people were bused in and paid. they weren't. it was from the grassroots. the obamacare town halls that were so angry. i did. dozens and dozens of them. that was from. >> the grassroots.

>> nobody was being paid. and trump trying to say these people showing up at town halls are being paid to go there. i mean, surely this is not a guy who's ever done a real town hall, or he would realize that this is really the essence of our democracy. and if the republican party decides to quit listening to the people who put them in office, that's a really fast way to not be in office anymore. >> yeah, i think there's something so fascinating going on. mini and the thing about defeating trump is it's not going to be a politician that magically comes up with the right ad in a lab, and then they run the ad in the right markets, in the right states, or on the right algorithm and, and poof, he's gone. it's going to be the american people rejecting trump ism. and what i think is amazing is that people in sort of the professional class are talking about malaise and being depressed and being tired. if

your government benefits are disappearing, if your sense of who we are as a country and what congress was supposed to do. if you feel disgust that your member of congress, even if it's a republican who you supported and somebody who supported donald trump because that's what you wanted. if you are disgusted and you show up at a town hall, you are the opposite of depressed and angry. you still believe in the system. and i feel like what's happening out there, it doesn't fall into neat partizan lines, but it is a an across the board rejection of trump's first five weeks. >> i think that's absolutely right. and what we're seeing and you nailed it with the energy. it's happening folks. it is happening. you know, what we're seeing now is civic engagement at its finest. folks are across party lines. in fact, many folks who are not partizan at all are showing up and speaking out many times because they have genuine questions about the policies that they're hearing about and they want answers. so the gop shutting down these events is actually going to backfire

spectacularly, because this is an opportunity, as claire mentioned, to really engage your constituents. i worked in a district office during the aca in texas in a swing district. my boss engaged hundreds of constituents and persuaded folks on the other side of the aisle about the benefits of the aca. it's a missed opportunity for these members of congress, and frankly, it's deeply disappointing. >> we'll keep our eye on all this. it's fantastic to see you. thank you for joining us. claire, thank you for spending the hour here with me. i know you have many more hours to go before you rest. yeah. me too. we'll be watching to. >> watch whether we like it or not. >> i know something else >> i know something else happening today. we'll where does the time go? where does the time go? until this week, my dad did not know where he was from. with liberty mutual. i'm african american. i want to know where i come from. it means the world to share ancestry® with my dad. so nigeria, this is where it all started. so they've broken it down by regions, by journeys, and by parent. man, this is deep. it adds more complexity to our lives, too. it adds more color.

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live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. here in west texas that has already killed one child. shows no sign of letting up. 159 cases have now been identified by the texas health department. a 20 case jump from friday alone. 22 people have been hospitalized. and instead of vaccinations, health and human services secretary robert f kennedy jr continues to push vitamin a, much to the chagrin of health experts. there's also upheaval within hhs. already less than one month into rfk's tenure, the top spokesperson and trump administration veteran abruptly quit after clashing with rfk, according to reporting in politico. he had, quote, grown uneasy with kennedy's muted response to the intensifying outbreak of measles in texas. we'll stay on top of

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