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>> let it go. >> i'll let. >> it go. >> when i find her. >> you. >> good to be with you. i'm katy tur. president trump says he's just getting started. but critics out there are questioning, can our democracy survive his vision for america? >> my fellow americans, get ready for an incredible future, because the golden age of america has only just begun. it will be like nothing that has ever been seen before. thank you. god bless you and god bless america. >> it certainly already is like nothing anyone has ever seen. the full impact of last night's address to a joint session of congress is still playing out, but the reaction to it was immediate. the president spent a record breaking hour and 40 minutes giving a speech that closely resembled a campaign rally. repeatedly attacking former president joe biden,

leaning into culture wars and promising even deeper cuts by doge. he made no attempt to unite the divided nation, but inflated his accomplishments and bent the facts. the president did announce some movement towards peace in ukraine and the arrest of a top terrorist, allegedly responsible for the abbey gate bombing that killed 13 u.s. troops during the afghanistan withdrawal. but just hours after igniting a trade war with america's three largest trading partners, president trump defended tariffs and asked consumers and even u.s. farmers to tough it out. >> it may be a little bit of an adjustment period. we had that before when i made the deal with china, $50 billion of purchases, and i said, just bear with me. and they did. they did probably have to bear with me again. they'll be a little disturbance, but we're okay with that. it

won't be much. >> democrats made their angst and their animosity known during that speech. texas congressman al green was even ejected from the chamber for heckling the president's claim. he is acting with a mandate from the american people. dems also staged something of a silent protest with paddles and whiteboards on hot button issues. they also walked out wearing shirts reading resist and no king. and those who did remain openly laughed at this moment of irony. >> we are draining the swamp. it's very simple. and the days of rule by unelected bureaucrats are over.

>> many in the crowd, they're pointing at this man, elon musk. unelected bureaucrats. indeed. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent aaron gilchrist. cnbc senior economics reporter steve liesman. sam stein, managing editor at the bulwark and usa today washington bureau chief susan page. i want to begin with tariffs and the economics here, because that moment right there is one that is having immediate impact when he talks about how there are more tariffs to come, steve, and how the nation is going to have to essentially tough it out for a short period of time, he's saying. what is the impact been so far and what's the outlook? >> yeah. let me give a little. >> back backdrop here. background, which is that people thought that. >> if the market. >> were to reject some of president trump's policies, that president trump would react and he would use the stock market as a barometer. well, he went into that speech last night with the market having sold off pretty

sharply and pretty directly as a result of tariff headlines. that was not the case, though, when in that he really doubled down on tariffs threatening more to come. said it was a fight for the country's soul, i believe. and what's happened today is that the market was a little bit cheerful, as some comments, that maybe there'd be an announcement later on. canadian and mexican tariffs. there's some talk about maybe a delay on the tariffs related to the autos. and the market kind of cheered that. but basically it looks like we are headed for extended tariffs and for the market and the broader economy. the problem is that this seems to bring in weaker growth as well as higher prices. that combination has a name. it's called stagflation. and that's a concern. it's a concern for economists. it's a concern

for investors. it's a concern for ordinary americans and a concern for the federal reserve, because it ain't very easy to combat when you have both of those things going in different ways. >> yeah. and as you mentioned, we're looking at the markets right now up a little bit. the stock exchange for the moment. steve, in terms of what corporations are saying, what importers are saying, what are we expecting for prices for things like avocados or for things like lumber? what is the expectation over the next in the immediate. i mean, are we going to see these prices change today, tomorrow? >> some of them may have changed already. look, when you think about a corporation and an executive and how they think the first thing they want to do is protect their profits and their profit margins. so to the extent possible, they're going to try to pass these along if they're charged the full tariff, maybe sometimes the exporter will eat it a little bit. but mostly the expectation is that the full

tariff is passed along to the consumer. and that's going to be the attempt. we are coming out of a period here where we learned that companies have what's called pricing power, and that's their ability to pass these along. we learned that during the inflation that followed the pandemic or in the middle of the pandemic, and there's no sense right now that they've lost that pricing power. so to the extent they have the ability, they will pass it along. consumer prices that are affected by these tariffs will go up. but there's a greater fear and a greater fear that this goes into a broader or wider inflation, where you have a problem where not just the prices of the tariffed goods go up, but prices more broadly go up as a result. >> did you get the sense to linger on this for just one more beat, that donald trump wants to get into it with the fed, that he wants to manipulate fed prices. >> so you mean interest rates but interest rates? sorry. >> yes. interest rates. thank you. >> yeah, sure. >> absolutely. >> so far he's been a little

he's been pretty careful. if you notice, there was an executive order recently that said all regulations have to run through the white house. he basically carved out the federal reserve and monetary policy on that. it doesn't seem to me right now that the president wants a fight with the fed when it comes to interest rates. they want lower interest rates. right now, the problem that the fed has is you have these tariff prices are going to show up in the consumer price index. that's almost certain. and it's going to be very difficult in a month when you have, say a half a point or a one percentage point increase in the consumer price index for the fed to come forward and say, we're cutting interest rates, that's the wrong way for it to go. we've had several fed officials have mentioned the example of the 1970s, when fed policy was too loose, and it didn't respond to the inflation shock that came from oil. and

fed officials are saying we're not making that mistake again. and so that means the fed is likely to be very patient and watch what happens with these tariffs before cutting interest rates. >> sam, what i found really interesting last night in watching this was donald trump, i think is pretty predictable. you kind of know what he's going to do, how he's going to react. i thought elissa slotkin was interesting. i thought she took her 20 minutes and she focused and tailored her message to the american people to say, donald trump promised to make your life better. he promised to make your costs lower. he was going to help you on day one, and he hasn't done that. costs are going up. inflation is going up. she warned against the republicans getting into their entitlements, mentioning that elon musk, elon musk called social security a ponzi scheme. what did you make of the democratic response last night? did you see daylight between what the democrats were doing in the room and what elissa slotkin did with her response? >> well, first, let's start with the fact that a response to the state of the union or whatever we want to technically call last

night, the bar is exceptionally low, right? don't go and look for a water bottle because you're so thirsty. you know, that's like what? >> rubio. >> yes, people got the illusion and but to a degree, i think slotkin senator slotkin did actually a fairly good job. i mean, it was a it was a tight direct speech that two things that stood out to me. one was the ponzi scheme line. the reason that stood out to me is because over the weekend, musk made these comments on the joe rogan podcast, and few democrats actually ran with them, even though we have ample history showing that republicans going after social security, including using the word ponzi scheme, has provided fodder for democrats in the past. and so to see the most high profile democratic speech to date pick up and focus on that i thought was notable. the second thing, though, was that whereas past speeches have kind of hit, missed the mark, i thought slotkin did a good job in describing certain steps that, you know, angered or

nervous progressives could take if they want to push back against the trump administration. she did say, don't doomscroll. look, as someone who writes for online publications, i think you should doomscroll it's good for our business. but yes, other than that, i think it was great. and i think, yeah. your point about was there a disconnect between what she was saying in the room? of course there was. people in the room have the worst non-home field advantage, whatever you want to call it in the business. right. trump is a president. he's got both chambers of congress. he has the stage. he has the lectern. he has the microphone. you're basically stuck. and slotkin at least had a stage. and she made a strong, coherent message that her colleagues, frankly didn't have the opportunity to make. >> saying on the on the subject of the economy, with slotkin saying the prices are going to go up. there was some daylight, it seems, and you tell me if i'm wrong. erin, between the president and his own commerce secretary about where we're going with tariffs, can you make sense of that for us? >> well, you're right, there

seem to be this this split on where exactly these tariffs will be going. we know that the president was explicit this week in saying that the tariffs on canada and mexico were going to be applied, and that he wanted to see some results from that. he wanted to see more, more being done to stop the flow of illicit drugs, fentanyl into the united states. he talked about the economic fairness between the united states and those countries, and wanting to see more parity as it relates to that. and then you had the commerce secretary suggesting that perhaps there there might be a deal in the offing in the very near future where we might hear, not that the tariffs have gone away, but that there may be a reduction or some carve outs, potentially for tariffs. and so really that just creates this lack of clarity in this moment about what exactly is going to be the reality. and in the meantime, people are waiting for the blowback, waiting for the impact from whatever does actually materialize in terms of

creating higher costs for people. at the same time, we know on the campaign trail this was a president who told people that he was going to lower costs. we talk about tariffs. we talk about the stock market and wall street and all those things. katie, i can tell you, when i was out on the campaign trail, the people that i was talking to, doing early voting and things like that in michigan and wisconsin, they didn't care about the stock market. they didn't want to talk about tariffs. they wanted to talk about lowering the cost of food and medicine and gasoline and things of that nature. so the president will be looking to see to what extent he engages with those people to keep the promises that he made. >> well, tariffs affect that. all right, susan, on the subject of whether he did a good job or a bad job, when you looked at the snap polls taken after the state of the union, the approval ratings for it are pretty good. most people who watch the state of the union are from the party that the president that belongs to the president. can you take away anything from a larger message here? i mean, is this

despite what's happening out there with the prices rising, is he rallying the base of supporters who voted for him? is he rallying the swing voters who supported him? >> well, he's got the support of his base voters no matter what. >> but i think. >> he's at some risk for the voters who swung. >> to him and gave. him the. >> big electoral college victory and the victory in the popular vote that he enjoyed in november. you know, we know that voters are focused on inflation, and inflation was the single best issue trump had going for him in the campaign. but last night he made it clear that his priority is tariffs. he made it clear that even if there are rising prices because of the tariffs, we should just be patient. and americans just need to be patient to give it some time to work itself out. you know that that may work, but that is a dangerous political proposition. and one thing we're seeing in polls now is nervousness about inflation, and also a sense that donald trump is not focused on the issues that they most want him to focus

on. and that is, number one, the economy. and when you look at the economy, that's number one. inflation. >> all right, susan page, sam stein, steve liesman, aaron gilchrist, everybody. thank you. steve liesman. thank you, everyone for joining us today. coming up next, reaction to president trump's opinion that his tariff ward four could be a little disturbing, caused a little disturbance to the us economy. we're going to talk to virginia senator mark warner about that. and later, president zelenskyy and european leaders seize on president trump's pause to a military and intelligence assistance to ukraine. also, a reality check on the situation at the border with former homeland security secretary jeh johnson joining us. we are back joh"mr. clean magic eraser.”ack “wow - where has this been my entire life?” “having to clean with multiple products is a hassle.” “trying to figure out okay what am i going to use on the shower, what am i going to use on the bathtub? i don't have to think about that.” “you just add water, and then i'm good to go.” "with magic eraser... i use it on everyday messes.”

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it's where we do the things we love with the people we love. so, what if we lived tomorrow in the same place as we did yesterday? with help, we can. home instead. for a better what's next. not like president trump's speech to congress last night, with one top lawmaker naming it the worst speech by a president to a joint session and calling donald trump, quote, delusional. that member of congress joins us now, senator mark warner, the top democrat on the intelligence committee and a member of the budget committee. i want to start, senator, first of all, thank you for being with us. but i want to start with a little bit of news that we're reporting out about the va. there is a planned staff cut, tens of thousands that were hired under president biden at the va could be losing their jobs. they're

mostly going to be va health care workers. what is your reaction? >> my reaction is more of the same from an administration that's clearly run amok. and i was on friday. last friday i was at a new health care center in fredericksburg, virginia. i worked on it for ten years. beautiful new building. only a third staffed. who's going to go want to work for the va at this point, when we've already seen a couple thousand cuts? and this guy, this comes from a president who says he's going to stand with veterans alone. he, you know, and you take the cuts of the va, but you also have to factor in the fact that 30% of all the federal employees are veterans. so they're taking a double whammy having services cut and then losing their jobs at unprecedented rates. and one of the things we've actually seen from some of these rifts that are taking place that folks who've gotten stellar reviews are being fired, supposedly for

cause, which in some cases means they may not be even able to get unemployment benefits. it's morally wrong. it's frankly traumatizing to the federal workforce, which the omb director vote wanted. he's accomplished that. i'll give him that. but this is, you know, on so many things that trump says, he says one thing and then he does the opposite. >> you know, you're not the party in power. so there's only a limited amount of authority that you have right now. but when people in your state come to you and say, i was fired unfairly, or look what they're doing to me, say they're a veteran, i know you, that you have the seventh highest population of veterans in the nation. >> what can. >> you do for them per capita? >> yeah. >> so what can you do for them? >> what we can say is, you know, what i say to all folks is we need only three votes in the house or four in the senate to change this. we can stomp our feet on the floor of the senate, but we can't even slow down legislation that much because,

candidly, rules changes made over a decade ago by democrats. so we can say we're going to support you on bringing lawsuits. you know, one of the things that i'm kind of wingman to my friend of 40 years, tim kaine, my fellow virginia senator, we're going to contest the tariff emergency he declared on canada. i mean, the truth is, a lot more fentanyl goes from the united states to canada than the other way around. and declaring canada an enemy and maybe a little biased. my mom's family is from from canada. it is bad politics, crazy economics. and you destroy these relations. you can't patch them over when they say, as they probably will in a few days. oops, we made a mistake and the toll that will take on that. and that's why we can litigate force as many votes as we can on the floor. but frankly, and it's one of the reasons why i'm working my tail off, at least in the national security space, to see if i can get 3 or 4 republicans to break, because what they are doing through either malfeasance

or ignorance with these blows to our intelligence community, you know, is beyond the pale. we've already lost a couple hundred cia agents because they they literally exposed their identities. you know, you suddenly trade out, you can't replace an nsa cyber expert with another coder the way you could replace somebody at twitter with somebody from another tech firm. >> on the subject of intelligence, the cia confirmed that they did stop sharing intelligence with ukraine. we've been sharing it partially for our own purposes, but also certainly to help them on the battlefield. why would we stop it? is it just part of the stick that donald trump is using to create the circumstances to sign this minerals deal? >> there is no geopolitical or american strategic reason for stopping military or particularly intelligence. we shut down some of these operations. you can't restart them overnight. and you know,

what's what's remarkable is and, you know, and i you had the united states voting the other day in the un with russia, north korea, iran, nicaragua, kind of the bad guys we've all grown up to believe. he is now siding with the ultimate bad guy in putin. he's giving xi, i think, a green light on taiwan and our ability to have any kind of alliance with democracies is being undermined. and again, this is not something once you do, you can build back trust overnight. you know, when we side with authoritarian regimes, when we stand up against our allies, canada, mexico, the europeans, frankly against democracies. i agree with elissa slotkin, who i think did a great job last night. you know, ronald reagan has got to be rolling over in his grave. >> the russians are the other half of this, this peace deal that donald trump says is coming. any indication that the russians are actually looking

for peace? i know you see the intelligence. >> yeah. listen, there is i've seen no indication, matter of fact, when trump has already given up you ukrainian points that could have been exchanged in a negotiation, such as ukraine joining nato or territorial gains being given up. and the remarkable thing is we're cutting off the legs of our ukrainian partners. but you don't see china, north korea or iran cutting back any of their assistance to russia. why would we tilt the deck so much in favor of a brutal dictator like putin, who, if he's successful in ukraine, will not stop there? we'll look at the baltic states, we'll look at poland. why would you give, in effect, a green light for xi to expand china's interest in the south china sea? and what do you say to our allies of 70 years? oh, don't worry, we got you back. and again, go back to this intelligence. this is a sharing process. are people going to really share intelligence with

us, our allies, if they think we're going to cut them off? or frankly, if sometimes that intelligence is not kept secret? >> let me ask you about immigration. donald trump last night said that in order to fix the immigration issue at the border, the crisis, as he calls it, all you needed was a new president. you didn't need legislation. no legislation is necessary. you just needed a new president. that got a lot of big cheers from republicans. you were saying on fox news, i believe it was yesterday that donald trump has done a good job at the border. so do you agree with that assessment that donald trump is the only thing that's needed to change the circumstances at the border? >> i think it is good that we're at a 25 year low in terms of border crossing. my words yesterday, yeah, they were not great. let me be the first to acknowledge that. and i think what he's doing to our. why aren't they and why. >> aren't they great. why weren't they great. >> because the notion that the numbers are down, which i think

is good for america, and i think the vast majority of americans realized you. president biden didn't have a secure enough border. those numbers are down. that's good news for our country. but the idea that that becomes a an ability to sanction ice, to have, you know, unfettered immigration, unfettered immigration raids doesn't make sense. so my choice of words yesterday, you know, i'd like to take him back. the data does exist on the numbers being down, what we've got to do going forward. and we again heard last night from a president who had a state of the union that i'll stand by. my words was the least amount of outreach to anybody who didn't vote for him. that doubled down on all the maga issues. it's not wasn't a good night for america last night. >> so no prospect of a bipartisan border deal that to be revived, say, with senator lankford, who spearheaded it last time. >> i think lankford deal that deal gives a level of permanent

security. and candidly, one of the things that you're going to find is that we don't even have if you see additional immigration rates, we don't even have the room to house these individuals. again, one of the reasons why i still think the long term, you got to have a legislative solution here. >> because when the new president comes in, you want some status quo, you want there to be a baseline. that's what legislation does. he said. >> he wants to screw. he wants to basically bring chaos. you got to give him credit for bringing chaos. that is not good for america. it's not good for american families. it's not good for america's standing in the world. and we all got to step up and fight back. >> senator warner, really good to have you. thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. >> coming up next, the reaction to the president's speech from federal workers who are facing, let's call it, an uncertain future because of doge, doge, and later, new hopes for a minerals deal between the u.s. and ukraine activates your european leaders into action. while vladimir putin continues

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entire first order@fabletics.com as a new vip member. >> there is so much to talk about tonight. there is so much to cover. we also see voters imploring democrats and you specifically to fight harder. what can you tell voters tonight who say you could be doing more than you're doing? can you tell us what's going on in the senate right now? do you know what the dodge group was trying to access at social security that would have caused the administrator to resign? right now, in our time today, the unpopularity of what they're doing really does create real political pressure at the source to stop it, to at least slow him down. >> donald trump made lawyers working on lawsuits against dodge happy last night by calling elon musk the head of dodge. we'll explain the significance of that naming in a moment. but first, big news from the supreme court as it ruled, president trump and elon musk's dodge must unfreeze 2 billion in

foreign aid at usaid and the state department. joining us now, new york times white house correspondent tyler pager and former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler. he's also a professor at georgetown law. paul, can you just explain to me what this ruling means? >> so this. >> is about money for services that are already been. >> provided by. >> usaid. and the supreme court essentially says that the united states government has to pay its bills. the trial judge had ordered the same thing three weeks ago, but the trump administration came up with all kinds of excuses about how it couldn't comply. it said that one judge shouldn't have all this power over foreign policy, and it needed time to process the judge's orders. and, katy, the court seemed to think that the judge's order that aid pay its bills in 36 hours, that might not be realistic. so it essentially wants the judge to work out some kind of payment plan. basically, given the opportunity, the agency more time, but it does have to pay

up. >> is this a broader ruling about the power of the purse? can you apply this to other congressional spending that is so far not being spent by donald trump? >> not yet. so the brief order from the supreme court isn't about whether the president has the power to refuse to allocate money that congress has already appropriated. the judge might decide that later. but again, this is about a money that's already been spent in terms of the services provided. so the government just has to pay up. katy, the judge, alito in dissent. he did seem sympathetic to donald trump's expansive view of executive power. he thought that the judge exceeded his authority. but again, he said that only on behalf of himself and three other justices. >> let's talk a little bit more about how the federal workers who have been laid off are impacted and what they thought of last night's speech. my colleague jacob soboroff sat down with a few of them and watched donald trump deliver

this joint address. here's what they said. >> part of it are legislative fixes, but the other part are really process and. tech improvements. and by getting. >> rid. >> of the subject matter experts that do this work for decades and the people who have the tech capabilities, and then more importantly, the trust that you build between agencies to actually align and prioritize this work is really, really difficult to see. you can get something in five minutes, but to get the apparatus back up and running, that might take five years. >> tyler, this is something that senator warner was saying as well a moment ago that this expertise is not something that you can just turn on and turn off at will. that there is real impact to doge going in with a chainsaw and not having any regard for who or what they're firing. >> yeah, that's exactly. >> what elon musk is doing. and it's something we've. >> seen him do with his. >> private companies as well. >> this slash. >> and burn approach. >> he has, you. >> know. >> made clear that he feels the

only way to accomplish the goals of the. >> trump administration to dramatically. >> downsize and. >> overhaul the federal agencies is to really just go in there, as you said, with a chainsaw. i think what we're seeing, though, is that the. >> president, in his speech. last night. >> is not just attacking, you know, the federal agencies writ large, but, you know, workers specifically talking about federal bureaucrats who do not, you know, abide by his rulings that he's coming for them as well. many of the people that are working throughout the federal agencies are trump supporters themselves. they're some of them, you know, many of them are nonpartisan, but they have worked for decades in the federal government. and i think that's one of the concerns we're hearing, even from some trump supporters and trump allies, is that the way in which they're going about this approach may have long term consequences that may not be immediately apparent, but will be felt by americans across the country for years to come. >> and paul, very quickly, because we're out of time. but why does it matter that donald trump called elon musk the head

of doge? >> because last week, the white house told a federal judge that musk is not the administrator of doge, but just a senior white house advisor. so, katy, when donald trump talked to congress about dodge last night, he had one job to do, which was to pretend like elon musk is not leading a government agency. but sure enough, he slipped and told the truth. it matters because this is a government agency, and there are all kinds of rules like holding public meetings, transparency that be in place to adjudicate. musk, his obvious conflicts of interest. he's overseeing budgets when he's one of the largest federal contractors himself. >> all right, paul butler, tyler page, gentlemen, thank you very much. and coming up, president trump seems to think ukraine is ready to make a deal on minerals. how that might be minerals. how that might be received by vladimir putin tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid. can it one up whatever they're doing? for sure. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains.

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that's fair. we committed to underground, 10,000 miles of electric line. you look back at where we were 10 years ago and we are in a completely different place today, and it's because of how we need to care for our communities and our customers. i hope that's true. [joe] that's my commitment. [ambient noise] ratcliffe has confirmed reporting that the trump administration is pausing intelligence sharing with ukraine. you heard me talking about it with senator warner. ratcliffe called it temporary. so we wonder, is that part of the stick president trump is trying to use to create the circumstances for him to forgive ukrainian president zelensky last night, he certainly signaled that the minerals deal is close to being back on. >> regarding the agreement on minerals and security. ukraine is ready to sign it at any time

that is convenient for you. i appreciate that he sent this letter, just got it a little while ago. simultaneously, we've had serious discussions with russia and i've received strong signals that they are ready for peace. wouldn't that be beautiful? wouldn't that be beautiful? >> joining us now, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and chief washington correspondent andrea mitchell. also with us, andrea kendall taylor, a senior fellow and director of the transatlantic security program at the center for a new american security. she is the former deputy national intelligence officer for russia and eurasia at the national intelligence council. andrea mitchell we just got a little bit of a breaking news reporting. there's going to be a summit among european leaders tomorrow. i believe president zelensky will be there to talk about the path forward. >> well. >> just the. very fact that an intelligence official from the united states goes on television

to say that there has been a pause on intelligence. sharing with an ally in the middle of war, an ally who has been attacked by russia, our, you know, decades long adversary is so extraordinary. so just i'm trying to get my. head around that fact today as well. this is all been turned upside down. the very fact that zelensky had to give up something in order to continue to get u.s. aid and support, to give up the minerals. as this agreement that scott bessent, the treasury secretary, first presented to him in munich, when i was there, covering. was so shocking to a lot of the people in munich, including republican senators, whom i was talking to privately, who have flipped the switch since the big breakdown in communication and that really stomach turning meeting in the oval office on friday. so all of this is just turning the world

upside down, the world that we have known for 75, 80 years since the, you know, world war two, the whole postwar architecture of multilateralism, of nato, of working with our allies. and the fact is that cutting off, you know, arms, turning around shipments to zelensky and more time when there there had been a freeze just a year ago that was very damaging because of signals that had come from mar-a-lago when donald trump was a candidate, not the president of the united states. and that freeze with what was happening in africa at the time, the weekend in munich, navalny's death, all of that was a huge setback in the war. and now, again, the potential of that and the pressure on zelensky as they go into this eu meeting, the eu cannot provide some of the things with either intelligence, satellite coverage and the like. you know, air

defenses that the us does. >> so andrea kendall taylor, how did how did they do this? they're going to have this meeting tomorrow. there is obviously a realization among european leaders, our allies, that they can't rely on us for security. this is this has really shown donald trump's intentions and that he does have a real softness from vladimir putin, as if anybody was questioning that. so how did they approach it? how do they have this meeting tomorrow? how do they how do they firm up their authority and their abilities while also still trying to maintain something of a relationship with the united states? because, as andrea mitchell said, they just don't have the same capacity that we do. >> yeah, they're going to ve to thread the needle on this one, and at least that leaves them in an incredibly difficult position. andrea is totally right. they don't have the capacity to step in and fill the gap, particularly on the intelligence front. and andrea is right. this is so consequential for the ukrainians. it will have an immediate impact on the

battlefield in ukraine. they use us intelligence to provide early warning of the drones and missiles that are striking ukrainian cities, to help them understand the battlefield and russian movements. and so they are it will have a real impact for ukrainian lives. so now the europeans are absolutely scrambling. they are making serious commitments to increase defense spending. we've had many announcements since donald trump came into the white house about significant increases in defense spending. most recently, the german new chancellor promising a very significant and increased defense spending. so they are off to the races in trying to ramp up as quickly as possible, while also trying not to alienate president trump. because the reality is, is there will be a gap in the timeline. it will take them time to move up the curve, to be able to step

in and fill some of the gaps that the united states would leave. and so they do need trump to stay in support of ukraine. and as a, as a partner in the transatlantic community long enough that they can make this transition as smoothly as possible and in a way that doesn't leave ukraine maximally vulnerable in a way that doesn't leave europe itself maximally vulnerable. >> it is a tightrope to walk. andrea kendall taylor andrea mitchell. thank you ladies very much. and coming up next, vice president j.d. vance is headed to the southern border to push the president's immigration crackdown. we'll look at the current state of america's immigration policy with former obama homeland security obama homeland security secretary power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley.

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>> crossings react. >> sharply and quickly to. perceived changes in our enforcement policy on the southern border, whether it's perceived as lax or cracking down. the numbers react very sharply. but so long as the underlying push factors persist poverty, violence, drought, corruption, gang violence, the numbers always revert back to their longer term trend lines. >> so mexico is changing some of their policies. they are going after gang violence in a new way. they are, you know, trying to cooperate. they say, with president trump and the border crossings, not saving them, by the way, from a 25% tariff. and they seem to be confused by that. right. so are the underlying push factors changing to. >> the underlying push factors persist? in 2014 we had a spike. in may 2014 we actually got the mexican government to help us on their southern border to interdict a lot of migrants coming from central america, and

that contributed to the sharp downfall. we saw. the mexican government actually has limited resources for border security, for law enforcement, the corruption at the state level in mexico is all over the place. you don't know who you can trust, so you can only count on the mexicans to a limited extent if we're ever going to fully address this problem. and i've said this a million times, you have to address the problem at the source. and the obama administration last year in office began to go down that road. but it takes a multi administration, multiyear effor, funding, funding targeted funding to, for example, enable coffee growers in guatemala to better get their product to the market, give people optimism, hope targeted anti-corruption efforts can make a difference, sort of like a plan colombia. so right now, just like eight years ago when he first took office, trump has bragging rights over the low numbers this month and

maybe even next month and maybe even the month after that. but i suspect if history is a guide, the numbers are going to start creeping up. >> you're talking about foreign aid, which donald trump totally denigrated last night, made a mockery of the republicans, cheered him on. he also said that legislation isn't needed, just a tougher guy in office, and that's who he is. do you need legislation? i mean, do you can you get can you get there without foreign aid and without legislation? >> no, you can't. which is why i thought the bill negotiated by chris murphy and jim lankford last year, was a good bill all the way around. we do need more judges. we do need more attorneys. we need to adjust around the margins our asylum laws, which cannot be done by executive action to really solve this problem. katy, there actually are solutions to our broken immigration system, but there are politically unobtainable. >> they are. >> there are. >> a hot potato issue. >> i love hearing that there are solutions. i don't love hearing

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