first order when you sign up as a new vip only at fabletics. com. what was it like when. >> trump got elected? >> what was the what was. >> the reaction? >> do you think about ice. >> coming to knock on your front door. >> to you. >> for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you there. >> on january? >> i was there on january 6th. >> did it. >> surprise you that you were. >> fired. >> given how resolutely nonpartisan. >> you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> good to be with you. i'm katie tur. how much pain are you

willing to tolerate for change? president trump is betting his voters are willing to tough it out. but the question is what are they toughing it out for? the president keeps saying the usa is getting cheated in its trade deals, both with our competitors and our friends. and he believes imposing tariffs are the way to even things out. but are they? so far, everyone we've imposed a tariff on has slapped one right back or they're about to. meaning prices are going to go up for everyone on everything from avocados to lumber. it's going to be painful, and it's not what donald trump promised during the campaign. and the impact is already being felt. here's how local news stations from around the country have been covering it. >> we are continuing to follow the impact. >> of. >> president trump's. tariffs and. >> what they could. >> mean for your wallet. >> owner katz says. she's feeling. >> the pinch. >> from rising prices on both ingredients. >> and supplies. >> she's now trying to shop around for cheaper suppliers

while also raising three kids. >> mchenry says. >> they are doing their best to handle their financial impact. >> one of the. >> challenges we have is that we're a smaller business. we're not a multi-billion dollar business like my neighbor. and so i can't go out and buy a bunch of product. >> we're here outside of m&m liquors because the owner. >> here. >> told us that the price of tequila is going up. >> so the. >> final out. >> of. >> pocket increase to the consumer. >> will probably be more like 40% to 50%. >> not just 25%. >> the connecticut food association says some of the first items to cost more could be avocados, strawberries, grapes, beef. >> and pork. >> they estimate. families could. >> see their. >> grocery bills surge 1500 to. >> $2000. >> a year, as long as the tariffs are in effect. >> i think it's going. >> to hurt a lot. >> roberta bradson owns the. >> store ampersand, and lately her craft. >> beer sales have been. >> going flat. >> i think that we're. all at. >> the at the peak. >> of.

>> what they're willing to pay for a can or a four pack. >> beans says. >> the knackery. could be forced to close their doors. >> at any time. >> really, it's going to come down to how. >> much people are. >> going to be willing to. >> eat the. >> cost and come out and support us. >> joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, nbc news business and data correspondent brian chung, chief white house correspondent for the new york times and msnbc political analyst peter baker, and national affairs correspondent at the nation, john nichols. brian, i hope your drink of choice is not tequila. >> it's not. no. i'm sticking with water for this week. >> given all the developments. >> here. >> i mean, we saw their local news has been covering it. people are feeling it. small businesses are especially feeling it and they don't really have a choice. they've got to pass it on to the consumer. it's not like walmart which can absorb something of those prices. but even target is saying they're they're raising they're raising costs. what are you seeing from the data. and does it look like it's going to be a short term thing as donald trump is promising, or are we in it for the long haul? >> yeah. well, i mean, little disturbance is how the

president. described it in his. >> speech to lawmakers yesterday. >> which was. >> also. >> a speech. >> really to the american people. >> and that was really the hardest. >> acknowledgment that we've heard. >> from the. >> white house. >> that prices could increase. for american consumers. >> but again. >> he's saying. >> that's the price of getting. concessions for. >> these rounds of tariffs, which they've said very. >> clearly are. >> about fentanyl trade and not necessarily about tariff policy. but really quickly, i just kind of want to zoom out here and just point out that really what we're seeing here is just headline risk is the way that a lot of financial types will describe it, because every day it seems like we're in this schrödinger's tariffs type of situation. the tariffs are on. the tariffs are off. the tariffs are on again the tariffs are off. and i think that for business owners, whether you're a small business or you're a large business, you don't like that uncertainty. and what do you do in that case the uncertainty you kind of price in what is the worst case scenario, which is that i'm going to have to increase my prices, which means that a lot of producers have already been implementing price increases, even in. >> we've already. >> been feeling it. >> in some cases. i mean, i was talking with an auto body auto

body shop owner who said that he had seen the price of filters already go up. and he said to factor that into the price of just an oil change, even in the weeks leading up to these tariffs. >> so is there an aspect of our lives that's not going to be touched by these tariffs? >> well, i mean, at least for the next month or so, it might not be automotive because we just heard from caroline leavitt, the white house press secretary, saying there will be a one month carve out for auto makers. given the intertwined nature of auto body building between the us, mexico. >> and automakers going to start pricing that in. because if it's a one month pause, who's to say that on day 32 they don't put this in? >> yeah, i mean, that's absolutely a possibility as well. we'll kind of have to see how the data shakes out over the next few months. but i mean, i think all of this underscores exactly what i was just saying, which is that this uncertainty is weighing on a lot of producers. and interestingly, there was a survey done earlier this week called the ism manufacturing survey that asked a lot of these producers, hey, how do you feel? are you feeling optimistic about what the next few months or the next year is going to look like? a lot of manufacturers said they were feeling a little bit more down about the prospects for orders coming in than they were in the

prior month, and a big reason for that was tariffs, tariffs, tariffs. many mentions of tariffs in that survey. >> is there any anyone on capitol hill worried about tariffs. anyone with an r in front of their name. ryan. >> well good thing you clarified that because there's a whole bunch of members of congress. >> that are. >> really worried about tariffs. and most of them are democrats. but i do think that there are some republicans that are raising tepid concern about the way that the president is going about this. >> they're always reluctant. >> to actually directly criticize him, but there are worries about the form and fashion that this is playing itself out. now. they're willing to give donald trump some latitude here. many of the republicans that you talked to, when you ask them about this tariff proposal, they're not necessarily a fan of tariffs themselves, but they are a fan of donald trump as a deal maker. and they believe that this is a tool in his toolbox to try and cut deals with canada, with mexico, with china and beyond. and so they're giving him some space there. how long that space exists for remains to be seen. and it also is really a test of donald trump's broader political will. and where you're really going to start to see

republicans start to speak out is when they're hearing it from their constituents. and trump is, to a certain degree, conditioned his supporters to say, listen, you're going to feel some pain. it's going to be okay. we're going to get over it. so will there be an outcry, particularly in these red districts right at the beginning, even if folks are paying more because they feel confident that trump can get them out of it, or is this is going to be something that is as soon as they go to the liquor store, as soon as they go to the gas station, as soon as they go to get the oil change, and they see that price bump, that they start to get upset about it and then blame donald trump for it. that right now is still an open question, katie, that. these lawmakers. >> even know about it, because we've heard that republicans are being told not to hold town halls when they go back home. >> yeah. >> well. >> town halls aren't the only way they hear from their constituents, right? their phone lines could be burning up with calls from their constituents. they could get emails. there is a wide range of ways for them to communicate with their constituents, even if they're not specifically doing town halls. the one thing i've learned covering politics for a long time is that when a constituent group wants to get a

message to a lawmaker, there are ways to get that message to those lawmakers. the question is, will these republicans receive it? we've seen in many instances, them downplay the impacts of these town halls, saying that they're just paid troublemakers, as donald trump called them, that they're outside democratic activists that aren't part of their district, and they're really not listening to what their constituents are saying. when their constituents are complaining about tariffs. will they treat that complaint the same way that they're treating these town halls? that's something that we need to keep an eye on. >> i guess they'll ultimately find out whether they get elected again at the end of the day. at the end of this two years. peter baker, the question that i still have is, what exactly does donald trump want? say he's using these tariffs as a leverage tool and that he really wants to get a better deal from canada, from mexico? what is a better deal? he's talking about fentanyl. we send more fentanyl to canada than they send to us. it's like 1%. it's almost nothing. it's not nothing, but it is almost nothing. justin trudeau seems to

think that what donald trump is doing with these tariffs is he's trying to hollow out the canadian economy to make it easier to absorb canada into america as the 51st state. >> well, look, you're absolutely right to ask. >> the question. >> because the. >> president's been. >> all over. >> the map. >> and when he describes what he's trying to do with these tariffs, you're right. he talks about fentanyl. but you're right also that less than 1% comes from canada. that can't obviously be worth all the economic disruption that he's about to impose through these tariffs. he talks about trade imbalances. he talks about unfair trade practices with these trading partners. but remember the rules that we currently have for trading with mexico and canada were set by an agreement negotiated by donald trump in his first term. he's the one who told us that the usmca, the us, mexico, canada agreement that he negotiated was a great deal. so now he's telling us that it's not a great deal, even though he's not taking blame for that and saying that he needs to make changes to these tariffs or like what

trudeau says now, you know, donald trump really thinks he's going to annex or somehow absorb canada. it's hard to say for sure. it seems pretty farcical, but i suppose it shouldn't be taken lightly. certainly, trudeau is not taking it lightly. certainly canadians aren't taking it lightly, and it's actually affecting their politics right now in a big way. >> yeah, we're seeing what is just uncharacteristic animosity from the canadians toward americans. you had one mayor, i think it was of manitoba saying that they're going to take all american liquor off the shelf. you hearing they're hearing the national anthem, booed at hockey games. you're seeing people wear made in america shirts trying to find that, you know, antagonizing other shoppers when they may be reaching for maple sirup that comes from vermont. what are you doing? take maple sirup that comes from canada. it's not. we've been such close friends for so long. it's just a strange position to be in, to find that our closest neighbor to the north is suddenly, suddenly feels more like not our enemy, but we don't feel like

we're comfortable buddies any longer. >> yeah. what does it tell you about how radically donald trump has reoriented foreign policy? that canada is the adversary and russia is the friend? that's what's happened in the last six weeks, right? he said nicer things about vladimir putin than he has about justin trudeau. and he seems to be more willing to cater to russia's national interests than to canada's at national. and you're right, it's mind boggling in some ways, because since the war of 1812, anyway, we've had a pretty good relationship with canada. pretty symbiotic in most things. canada is the one that went to war with us time and time again, whether it be in europe, whether it be in the middle east, canada and the united states jointly operate, you know, the north american air defense operations in terms of, you know, preparing for possible nuclear attacks. i mean, canada and the united states are so close that the border has been pretty much undefended for all these years, because, of course, nobody really seemed to see a big difference between the two. now, suddenly to see them hostile towards us and us hostile

towards them, really because of donald trump. it's something we never, i think, imagined. >> no, certainly not john nichols. i want to play elissa slotkin from last night because she did seem to home in on a democratic message, a singular democratic message in this moment where everything is so chaotic. here she is talking about what donald trump promised and what he has so far delivered. >> look, the president talked a big game on the economy, but it's always important to read the fine print. so do his plans actually help americans get ahead? not even close. president trump is trying to deliver an unprecedented giveaway to his billionaire friends. he's on the hunt to find trillions of dollars to pass along to the wealthiest in america. and to do that, he's going to make you pay in every part of your life. grocery and home prices are going up, not down. and he hasn't laid out a credible plan

to deal with either of those. his tariffs on allies like canada will raise prices on energy, lumber and cars and start a trade war that will hurt manufacturing and farmers. your premiums and prescriptions will cost more because the math on his proposals doesn't work without going after your health care. >> this is elissa slotkin, brand new senator from michigan, speaking from a place that both she won and donald trump won. >> that's exactly right. >> and look. >> that's where that's. >> where sort of the. >> sweet spot. >> is for democrats, right? >> one of. >> the things that they. >> know is. >> that donald trump. brings out voters. >> i. >> mean, voters who want to vote for him, that's that shouldn't be denied. >> but that when he's not. >> on the ballot and he won't be on the ballot in the midterm. >> elections. >> there's a portion of folks that. >> that don't show up. that's right there, an opening for democrats. and then you have the next opening. >> this notion. that some portion of folks who voted for

donald trump and. who voted republican in 2024. >> are going. >> to be profoundly disappointed because they're not seeing that that shift in the economy that they wanted. >> remember. >> donald trump didn't promise that he would make. >> the economy a little better. >> he promised during the campaign. >> that. >> he would make it dramatically better. now, the moves he's making are dramatic. there's no question. >> of that. >> these tariff initiatives. >> are huge, but we're hearing from an awful lot of folks. >> folks in industrial settings who worry about, you. >> know, whether parts are going to show up where worry about whether. >> they're going to have markets. a lot of farmers. and remember, donald trump did great in rural america. hearing from an awful lot of farmers, especially at this time of year, this is when you're buying seed or you've just finished buying seed and you're preparing. >> to. >> go out into those fields once winter is done and having a period of deep uncertainty, not knowing. how much to plant, where to do it, what to do, what. >> to plant. >> i mean, that's the sort of

thing that. creates an opening for, you know, the other party for the democrats to deliver a message. i think slotkin started to do it there last night. but frankly, i think that after the incredibly. long speech by donald trump, i'm not sure how many people heard that. ultimately, for the democrats, the key is to have a consistent message on tariffs and on the economy. if they do, we'll see the first measures of how effective that message is in some of the special elections that are coming up. and ultimately in this year's off year elections. >> yeah. and we'll see if those rural communities, those farmers, for instance, that voted for donald trump, stick by him. they did, you know, and they have even though there was pain during the first administration, does that continue? john nichols, peter baker, ryan nobles, gentlemen, thank you very much. and still ahead, the white house now says all aid and intelligence sharing with ukraine is frozen. what president volodymyr zelenskyy says he's doing to, quote, make things right with donald trump.

plus, what the president said about elon musk last night, how he described them. that could be a legal problem for the white house. and later, what unconventional home remedy, home remedy? hhs secretary rfk jr is embracing as the measles spreads? reminder there's a really good vaccine against the measles. but he's talking about something else. we're back in something else. we're back in 90s. nature knows best. that's why new chapter vitamins... ...follows her example. with key vitamins, minerals, herbs, and whole food ingredients... ...crafted to work with your body. ♪♪ bringing the power of nature... ...into your new chapter. so sick. are you okay? i'm incredible! so many in-network docs on zocdoc. this one never rushes appointments. and that one makes patients feel heard. booked! sick! you've got options. book now.

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>> european leaders will meet tomorrow to discuss the path forward and what they can do alone to secure not just ukraine, but europe as well. for allies who depended on both the nato alliance and close intelligence and economic ties with the united states, this right now is a moment to open their eyes to the reality of donald trump, and with him, an american public two divided to ensure dependable relationships. it comes as the director of the cia confirms that the u.s. is now not only pausing military aid to ukraine, it stopped sharing intelligence as well. joining us now, nbc news senior correspondent covering national security and the pentagon, courtney kube. so what's up with this halting of the intelligence aspect of this? >> yeah. and after director ratcliffe came out and said this this morning, then the national security advisor, mike waltz, also doubled down and confirmed

it as well. so this is a question we've had all week, ever since we found out on monday that the trump administration had paused or halted all weapons and equipment shipments that were going to ukraine. now, we found out from a defense official that, in fact, there were actually weapons en route and equipment en route to ukraine, to the region on monday, when they got the order at 6 p.m. to stop those weapons. now, we are learning again today that the intelligence sharing has also stopped. but katie, here's a critical difference here. the intelligence may not be coming for now between the united states from directly from the united states to ukraine. but the u.s. still shares intelligence with other allies, and those allies have only stepped up their commitment and they're they're sharing an equipment with ukraine. since the united states has been stepping back in the last several weeks. so the question is, is u.s. collected information actually making it to ukraine during this pause? and the reality is, some of it still can be. that being said, this still has a big impact on

ukraine because it's another sign that the united states is not supporting it at a time where they are still very much in an active conflict with russia. and it also sends that same signal to the u.s. and ukraine's allies that the united states, again, not only stepping back on their commitment to for weapons and equipment, but also for sharing intelligence at such a critical time. katie. >> all right. courtney, thank you very much for that clarification. joining us now, editor in chief at foreign policy, ravi agarwal. ravi. all right. let's talk about where we are today. you've told me last week watch the actions. what actions have you seen in the past 4 or 5 days that what does it tell you where this alliance between not only the us and ukraine is going, but the us and our closest friends in europe? >> you know. >> this. >> is always a watch this space kind of thing because trump wants us to. but look, there's been a lot of movement. i think

the move, especially as we just heard to pause military aid, is going to have consequences down the line, not immediately but down the line. and then sharing intelligence could have real impacts, i think, especially in terms of incoming attacks by the russians on. ukrainian installations, especially energy of civilians. if something happens, in part because of a lack in intelligence reception. that would be, you know, in part. >> a cause. of. >> what we're seeing coming out of the trump administration. so there are real consequences to this sort of tug of war and this style of diplomacy on trump's part of, of, of trying to force ukraine to kowtow. and that really is a is a direct kind of ripple effect from everything we saw in the white house on friday, where president zelensky didn't come across as pliant

enough or thankful enough or servile enough, even for the trump administration. >> robby, is something covering your microphone, by any chance? you're it sound like you're a little bit underwater. >> potentially it could be. >> let me. >> give it a little bit. but i'm in a new location. is that better? >> yeah, it's a lot better. i think we got most of your first answer. >> okay. >> so. okay. okay, so we see the european leaders coming together. do you have a sense that do you have a sense that that donald trump really wants this minerals deal. and what he's doing right now is maybe creating the circumstances that he needs in order to, quote unquote, forgive zelensky and get this deal done. >> i think, you know, so inasmuch as this critical mineral deal is, you know, something that trump can sell as a victory, that look at the way i negotiated this and i got something out of the ukrainians that is good for america,

inasmuch as he wants to be able to signal that to sell, that he really wants this to happen. but all of us should be asking questions about what exactly such a deal actually gives the united states, because it is not very clear that ukraine actually has. any critical minerals that. >> robbie use to the. >> united states. it. >> robbie, my friend, i'm so sorry. this this location isn't working. did you just. we just lost you entirely. we're going to try to reconnect and have you back, because i do want to hear the rest of that answer. ravi agarwal. thank you. just not on our side today. luck is not on our side today. still ahead. what donald trump said not once but twice during last night's address. that undermines a key argument his administration is making in court. plus, what home remedy hhs secretary rfk jr is now pushing as a treatment for

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month. call 183337354495 or. >> visit homeserve.com. >> each week, veteran. >> lawyers andrew weissman and mary mccord break down the latest developments inside the trump administration's department of justice. >> the administration. >> doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of. >> its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> we're going to start with breaking news on capitol hill. >> mounting questions over the future of tiktok. >> in. the us. >> reporting from philadelphia. >> to el. >> paso in. >> the palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> i have created the brand new department of government efficiency. gauche. perhaps you've heard. >> of it? >> perhaps. which is headed by

elon musk, who is in the gallery tonight. >> immediately, immediately after president trump declared elon musk in charge of the department of government efficiency in front of the entire country, antennas went up. for weeks, the white house has been trying to portray musk as just about anything other than the leader of doge to keep him out of legal proceedings. they've called him a special employee, a senior adviser, even a member of the i.t. department. in the dozen or so cases seeking to block doj's access to sensitive government databases. they've even announced an entirely different person as doj's administrator. now, though, trump's comments are threatening to undermine all of that hard work and plaintiffs in at least one lawsuit against doge have alerted alerted the court. joining us now, msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. all right. so he's walking around acting like he's the head

of doge. he's, you know, brandishing the chainsaw. he's taking reporters questions. but when the white house was asked, is he the head of doge? they were. they got very cagey about it. so what does it mean for the president to just say that at a state of the union, is it actually legally important? >> it is legally important. first of all, it's what we call an admission of a party opponent, and it can be admitted in court in that respect. but let's talk about what it is important for. katie, there are at least two lawsuits that are saying not only is what doge doing illegal, but its very existence is unlawful. one of those lawsuits says doge is unconstitutional because elon musk was not nominated by the president and hasn't been confirmed by a senate. there's another lawsuit that says doge is unlawful because to the extent that it's functioning as an advisory commission, its proceedings are supposed to be transparent to the public, who therefore is running doge, who is sending orders to whom, who's communicating with whom? all of that is incredibly important to the outcome of doge's

lawfulness. and therefore, that admission last night by president trump during his address to congress saying elon musk is running doge. that means the plaintiffs are going to run to court and say, we need elon musk's communications. we need to see who he's issuing edicts to. we need to understand what those communications are about, and that will be core to the resolution of both of those lawsuits. >> say a judge agrees and says, yes, you get that. what happens? >> well, then, first of all, in one of these lawsuits, the plaintiffs are only saying we need it. they're saying we need it on an expedited basis. if the judge agrees, then the government will have to turn over certain of elon musk's communications. now they are trying to shield elon musk from being a part of these lawsuits by naming him a special government employee. that also allows him to continue operating his businesses within the bounds of u.s. ethics constraints. but if we get to see those documents and understand who elon musk is communicating with, some of the things that the government has been saying about what doge is

doing and how could be revealed to be pretextual. and that's a big problem for the u.s. government. >> pretextual means, again. >> false and a little bit misleading. >> okay. the supreme court had a ruling today that that i'm sure the trump administration were not happy with. explain it. >> so the ruling from the supreme court today, by a54 decision, essentially says that orders compelling usaid to pay certain of its contractors for work that's already been contracted and performed. those orders have to be complied with. now, the supreme court gave usaid a little bit of wiggle room and gave the judge some wiggle room to. they basically said to the judge, you need to be clearer about what it is that the government has to do to comply with your orders and be a little bit more flexible about the timeline. you can't just expect government agencies to turn on a dime and unleash what could be up to $2 billion of funding in less than 24 hours, which is what one of his enforcement orders had said. that said, there are five votes in the supreme court for saying

those orders were legitimate. and it doesn't matter that the government is saying the president has the power to turn off that funding spigot. supreme court is endorsing what the plaintiffs wanted. >> already spent that money. you've got to pay the people back. >> that's correct. >> all right, lisa rubin, thank you very much. thank you. and joining us now, brookings institution senior fellow in governance studies, elaine kamarck. elaine, good to have you back. donald trump was touting all of the cuts that he's made with elon musk last night. he was touting the tariffs. he was touting all of the, you know, what he describes as his accomplishments so far in the past six weeks. how have you seen them? what stood out to you? >> look. >> i did. >> this in. >> the clinton administration, okay? >> i was a government. >> employee who had to put in a financial statement. i had to take security tests. >> et cetera. >> and get a security clearance. >> none of this has musk had to do. the big difference, though,

is. between what we did. >> 32 years ago in the clinton. >> administration, and now is that they are doing many things. >> which. >> nobody thinks are legal. so just yesterday, there was another federal court decision that said, and it was funny the way he phrased it. the judge said under no law in american history, nor any law in the universe, does opm have the authority to hire and fire people outside of their agency. so this whole thing is on very tenuous legal grounds and has been from the beginning. >> musk's involvement on this, i wonder if it's going to go down as if the american public is going to find it distasteful eventually. i mean, he's a guy richest guy in the world, and he's going and he's bragging about cutting. he's firing people, cutting out government programs. he called social security a ponzi scheme the

other day. does that end up backfiring? i know the american public has had a has been able to stomach a lot, or just hasn't seen the way donald trump speaks about things the same way that that past presidents have seen it, the way that we have, you know, the decorum that we usually abide by. i wonder if it's ever going to catch up to them. >> oh, it's going to catch up with them. in fact, what trump is trump and musk are doing, even though i'm not sure they realize it is they're planting time bombs all through the federal government, and the time bombs are going to blow up on them as soon as something goes wrong. they cut people from noaa. last week. that's the national oceanic and aerospace administration. they okay, so the next time there's a hurricane and there's not a lot of notice, guess what people are going to say, hey, the people are supposed to give us give us plenty of notice. they seem to be asleep at the switch and they're fooling around with

social security. and that, of course, is the third rail of american politics. you just don't do it. the minute people start getting their checks late or get inaccurate checks, or the minute people who are turning 67 years old and want to sign up for social security, go to do it. and they can't do it because there's not enough people to sign them up. this is going to backfire. and it's a it's careless. it's chaotic. it's not the way to cut the government. and i'm a person who is in big favor of rooting out waste, fraud and abuse and cutting workers, etcetera. but you've got to do it in a way that doesn't impact operations. and so far, they've shown no sensitivity to what the government actually does, that the vast, vast majority of american people want the government to do. >> yeah, the government has grown dramatically over the years. do you have a positive reading for anything that they're doing right now? >> well, first of all, the

government hasn't grown dramatically over the years. >> oh it hasn't. >> please correct me. >> it hasn't. >> yeah. the federal government has has is been between 3 million and 2.7 million for decades and decades. america has grown, the contractors have grown. but in fact, look at social security right now. it has about 75, 80,000 people, which is about the same amount of people it has had for a long time. and yet what they're in the middle of doing now is retiring the baby boom and the baby boom is the biggest generation we've ever had in american history. so far, until the our kids came along okay. but they're so they're retiring the baby boom on basically the same number of employees that they were using two decades ago. so there isn't growth now where there is growth is there's growth in contractors. and you have to and they are looking at

contractors. so that's probably a good idea. although they can't just you know, they they don't have the authority to just cancel contracts as the supreme court just told them. so the government has grown there and the government has grown in entitlements. they're simply more old people. and we're spending more and more on social security. >> well, give me this. it's become much less efficient over the years. >> well, yes and no. okay. yes and no. there are places where it's tied up in a red tape. okay. and there's places where they haven't adopted. they haven't figured out how to use new technology like ai as efficiently as they should. so they they need to catch up. the government is always running a little bit behind the private sector. but and government has way too many regulations. in fact, when dodge started, they said they were going to do a regulatory review. that's one of the things we did in the clinton

administration, and we cut 16,000 pages out of the federal regulations. and they i thought, okay, good. that's a very good thing to do periodically because the regulations are a little bit like that plant kudzu. you know, they just start growing and growing and growing. and you've got to at some point cut them back. yeah. so there's a lot of places where the government needs a review. we need fewer regulations. in some places we need fewer people. but we need that to be done in a way that is not disrupting important things. taking the chainsaw to the government is exactly the wrong way to do it. >> finding a way for the government to work faster and more efficiently is a good idea. i mean, getting passing legislation for billions of dollars in investment and getting that investment done and people hired. and the work going quickly is something that that definitely, definitely can be improved upon. i think democrats are probably thinking that now, given all that they were able to

pass during the biden administration that wasn't able to get online fast enough. elaine kamarck, thank you so much for being with us. i really appreciate it. and still ahead, what rfk is suggesting for measles patients. that is not the vaccine. don't go anywhere for that. plus, what recently fired federal workers had to say about the president's speech. >> consumer cellular is lowering the price for those 50 and up. get two unlimited lines for $30 each. that's just $60 a month. so switch to the carrier ranked so switch to the carrier ranked number one in network coverage [♪♪] are you one of the millions of americans who suffer from an upset stomach after a big meal? try pepto bismol. unlike some products, pepto coats and soothes your digestive system, to provide fast 5-symptom relief. stock up on pepto today. you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. that's why pnc bank strives to be boring with your money.

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it, but hhs secretary robert f kennedy junior is now recommending cod liver oil as a treatment for measles. while an outbreak in west texas expands. in a prerecorded interview and edited, edited interview with fox news, kennedy said texas doctors were seeing, quote, very good results by treating measles cases with a steroid and antibiotic and yes, cod liver oil because of its high vitamin a and d content. cod liver oil is not part of any conventional, scientifically proven medical treatment for the measles. and doctors say it never has been. joining us now, msnbc medical contributor and former obama white house policy director doctor kavita patel. listen, i like a homeopathic remedy as much as the next brooklyn mom does. i like it, but i don't think that there is any substitute for a vaccine. and it certainly is concerning to me that the guy leading our health department during a measles outbreak is not, first and foremost coming out and saying, get the effective and safe

vaccine. yes, katie, the most important. >> thing to get across to anybody is the most. >> important and effective treatment. >> is prevention. prevention equals a vaccine. >> so i think it's also doing a disservice. >> to honestly, to tens of thousands of. >> pediatricians who have been trying to do this. >> their entire career by having these conversations with patients. so bring up the. >> cod liver oil. >> and vitamin a in that conversation. >> while. >> you're also talking to them. about the safety and efficacy of. >> a vaccine. >> where did he get the cod liver idea from? the cod liver oil idea. this is unfortunate because like many things that have disinformation. >> there's a. >> kernel of truth. >> it is true. world health organization, as well as the cdc recommend, especially in. >> under-resourced areas. >> we're talking. >> about the. >> entire world. >> under. resourced areas. >> for treatment. >> once someone has measles, to make sure that you supplement them with vitamin a can. help prevent blindness. by the way. let's go back to preventing the blindness in the first place. >> that's the vaccine. >> so in. >> that. >> truth. >> katie. >> that kernel. >> of truth has now.

>> gotten spun into spurious. misinformation that has truly resulted in. >> unfortunately. >> not just in deaths and illness, but will continue to result in death as we're seeing these outbreaks across the country. there are a number of outbreaks, and there's a feeling that if you survive it, you're good. you've got the antibodies. is that is that true? yes. >> if you. >> actually have the measles, you do have immunity. but that's missing. >> the bigger point. >> we actually have a vaccine that is able to essentially eradicate measles. we had a status 20. we still have it. the united states still has kind of the elimination of measles as a status. i worry that we're going to lose it as a country because of these outbreaks. but to put people at risk. >> your children. >> to for this misinformation is nothing short of malpractice. katie. all right. doctor kavita patel, thank you very much. and coming up, some of the thousands of federal workers fired at donald trump's request tuned into his address last night. into his address last night. what they had to say about upset stomach

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bunch of federal workers. who were they? and what did they think? >> they sort of ran the gamut across housing and urban development. the u.s. forest service, the u.s. geological survey, even the u.s. digital service, which was the precursor to doge. all of them are bewildered. it's the simplest way that i can talk about it, because they all felt like that they were working on efficiency related issues in the government. and when they heard president trump last night, they all felt like that's exactly what we were doing. listen to this. we didn't hear anything about federal lands otherwise, did we? >> no. despite the fact that over 350. protests and. >> rallies took place. >> at national parks and national. >> forest offices. >> this past saturday. >> and thousands of people attended. >> to speak out. >> for our public. >> lands and. >> for the people who serve them. i'm shocked that. nothing came of that. and in addition, an executive order was signed that same day on saturday that opened up our public lands to unsustainable timber harvesting. >> by getting rid of the subject matter experts that do this work

for decades, and the people who have the tech capabilities, and then more importantly, the trust that you build between agencies to actually align and prioritize this work is really, really difficult to see. you can gut something in five minutes, but to get the apparatus back up and running, that might take five years. >> you also. >> were particularly. >> it seemed, annoyed by the statement that he made about thousands of federal workers not showing up to the office, because the work that you do and your colleagues do at the u.s. geological survey is not done in the office. it's largely done in the field. >> for many. >> people. >> yes, the usgs. >> is the most prestigious. >> earth science research institution. >> in the world, and. >> we've. >> been at the office this whole time. we do work. >> in laboratories at. >> the office, but lots of people are in the field every day. we monitor the nation's waterways. we monitor earthquakes, volcanoes and. >> other hazards. >> we study ecosystems. so our office is. >> our nation's lands. >> that was alex taylor. so he's a he's a geologist at the us geological survey. what he said is which is a similar story to

what the rest of them said. we were working on the issues that donald trump said in his speech last night are a priority for him. i'm working on rare earth critical minerals. and instead of going into ukraine to try to make a deal to take those minerals, or instead of taking over greenland to get their minerals, i was doing it for the us geological survey, but he fired me. jesus murillo, from housing and urban development said i was getting grants to local communities, and i was actually monitoring them to make sure that the money was being spent efficiently. and he fired me. majella was fired from the us digital service, as i said, the precursor to doge on immigration, saying i was working with the technology to reduce the backlog from four years to one year. and he fired me. catherine from the forest service said. i was literally going out collecting fees from people that were going out camping. and he fired me. so there is obviously a disconnect between what these workers are. i guess the bottom line is, do they really know who they're firing? and none of these four people thought that the trump administration actually understands who they're laying off in these doge firings.

>> do they know they're going to do now? we only have a couple seconds. >> maybe leave the government forever. and that would be a massive brain drain for young people like that to leave and go into the private sector. >> all right. jacob soboroff, thank you very much for bringing us that. that's going to do it for me today. deadline. white house starts after this quick break. >> work. >> play. blink. relief. >> work. >> play. blink. relief. >> the only 3 in 1. >>have you always had trouble >> extewith your weight? me too. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity. don't use wegovy® with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines or in children under 12. don't take if you or your family had mtc, men 2,

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longer faster stronger longer. see if sparks. >> are. >> right for you. >> what was it like when trump got elected? what was the i mean, what was the reaction do you think about ice coming to knock. >> on your front door? >> t for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you there. >> on january? >> i was there on january 6th. >> did it surprise. >> you that. >> you were fired. >> given how resolutely nonpartisan. >> you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> hi there everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. four months. that