longer faster stronger longer. see if sparks. >> are. >> right for you. >> what was it like when trump got elected? what was the i mean, what was the reaction do you think about ice coming to knock. >> on your front door? >> t for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you there. >> on january? >> i was there on january 6th. >> did it surprise. >> you that. >> you were fired. >> given how resolutely nonpartisan. >> you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> hi there everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. four months. that is how long ukraine can resist

russian forces without support from the united states. that's according to one alarming estimate in the new york times today. a dire picture for an ally that the trump administration appears intent on weakening ahead of any negotiations with vladimir putin. one defense official tells nbc. news that arms shipments to ukraine this week were halted in their tracks. the planes were turned back when the trump administration decided to stop arming ukraine. on top of that news this morning that the trump administration has stopped sharing intelligence with ukraine as well. here's national security adviser mike waltz. >> did the us pause. >> intelligence sharing. >> with ukraine? and is it still paused? >> right now we. >> have we have. >> taken a step back. >> and are. >> pausing and. >> reviewing all. >> aspects of this relationship. >> donald trump's. >> cia director, john ratcliffe, adds that that pause will not go

away, but it's unclear at what moment exactly. >> it will. >> take for intelligence sharing to ever resume. at this moment, the trump administration may have dealt a significant blow to ukraine's ability to fight the russians. the new york times reported last year that, quote, the intelligence partnership between washington and kyiv is a linchpin of ukraine's ability to defend itself. the cia and other american intelligence agencies provide intelligence for targeted missile strikes. they track russian troop movements and help support spy networks. the relationship is so ingrained that cia officers remained at a remote location in western ukraine. when the biden administration evacuated u.s. personnel in the weeks before russia invaded in february 2022. during the invasion, the officers relayed critical intelligence, including where russia was planning strikes and which weapons systems they would use. and both countries benefit.

this is important. the new york times adds this about the intelligence sharing between the u.s. and ukraine. quote, it took root a decade ago, coming together in fits and starts under three very different u.s. presidents, pushed forward by key individuals who often took daring risks. it has transformed ukraine, whose intelligence agencies were long seen as thoroughly compromised by russia, into one of washington's most important intelligence partners against the kremlin today. the end of intelligence sharing begs the question why? why would the trump administration no longer need or value or want a relationship that yields valuable intelligence from ukraine against the kremlin? >> holly to ukraine. >> has been stopped even after trump revealed that president zelensky had reached out to him in a letter saying he was ready to sign a mineral deal and pursue peace talks. one former

biden administration telling the new york times this, quote, halting security assistance will only make it more challenging for ukraine to reach a just and lasting end to this war. it will reduce ukraine's leverage, weaken the ukrainian military and therefore undermine ukraine's negotiating position with russia. the united states should be focused on strengthening, not weakening, ukraine's hand ahead of a negotiation. that is where we start today with some of our favorite experts and friends. new york times national security reporter julian barnes is here. also joining us, former cia director, now national security analyst john brennan is here. and with me at the table for the hour, founder and ceo of the independent veterans of america, co-founder of american veterans for ukraine, paul rieckhoff is here. julian, take me through the reporting. >> so we've known. for all of this. >> week that. >> president trump. >> ever since. that oval office. >> confrontation between president. >> trump, vice.

>> president vance and president zelensky. >> of ukraine, we've known that. >> the white. >> house has. >> been angry with zelensky, has been wanting to pressure him. >> and so first came. >> the word. >> that they were cutting. >> off the military aid. and then. today we had. >> john ratcliffe. >> mike waltz. >> saying that. they'd cut off. >> the intelligence partnership. >> there had. >> been some doubts. >> some officials wanted. >> to gradually. >> ratchet up the pressure. >> others just. >> wanted more out of zelensky. >> i mean. but make no. >> mistake. >> this is the trump administration. >> pressuring the. >> ukrainians to agree to their terms on the minerals. >> deal, on their approach to peace. >> which is. >> different than the european approach. >> which is different. >> than the. ukrainian approach. >> director brennan, what is the consequence for ukraine's ability to prevail or to continue to fight?

>> it's potentially devastating. u.s. support. to ukraine to confront russian aggression has many different components to it. there are the weapons. there's the munitions. the munitions. te logistical support and the. technical systems that. empower those capabilities. >> there's also. >> a military advice and guidance. >> and then there's intelligence. >> intelligence is the lifeblood. >> that gives all of those other. components the capability. >> to push back against the russians. >> and so if you take away the. >> intelligence. >> you're making. >> the weapons, the capabilities. >> the munitions, technical systems and other types of things, enfeebled by. >> taking that away. >> and so. >> over the past over a decade, the united states has been. providing support to ukraine to be able to build up its. >> capabilities. >> but to again infuse the. capabilities with the intelligence that we're able to obtain. now, i must point out this is not a one way street. over the past decade, the ukrainians have provided a lot of intelligence to us, giving us insights about what russian capabilities are. and so

therefore, this. this extortionist. >> approach to. >> trying to get zelensky to basically. fold to the trump administration's, you know, wishes as far. as some type of peace arrangement that looks more. >> like a. >> surrender, the way that trump is talking about putin and russia, this using intelligence as that lever really is unconscionable. it's appalling. it's not surprising, though, in light of the fact that this is what the trump administration does by threatening, by intimidating, but now also taking action to take away that intelligence. feed that the ukrainians rely on so heavily. >> john, can the europeans replace or fill the gap, or is the american intelligence product the more superior asset for a country. >> like. >> ukraine at war with russia? >> well, the us intelligence community. >> has by. >> far the greatest capabilities, the most extensive

and in-depth. >> and accurate. >> intelligence that that's provided to the ukrainians. now, our nato partners and other european countries provide intelligence to the ukrainians, but it falls far short of what the united states is able to provide, because we are basically, again, the leading intelligence community. and therefore, i think the europeans will try to make up some. they can make up some. but if you take away, if you. >> pull. >> out the plug of us intelligence, it's going to make a lot of these capabilities and systems go dark. it's not going to allow the ukrainians to know the next russian military operation or or drone strike or missile strike. it's going to lead to civilian deaths. it's going to lead to, you know, more casualties in the part of the ukrainians, because it's the ukrainian military that relies on that intelligence to be able to allow it to understand how to confront and deal and counter the next wave of russian aggression. >> i mean, julian, what how does the cia simply turn off an

alliance like this on the battlefield in terms of intelligence? >> i mean, that is a great question. >> it's really. >> hard, right? >> this is relationships. >> this is relationships. >> that cia. >> officers have. >> built up. >> over months with ukrainians. >> that the. >> ukrainian intelligence. >> officers that they know well. >> that they trust. >> that they. >> have trained up. >> right. >> this kind of. order is really. >> hard for. >> an average. >> intelligence officer. >> to take. >> like they. >> have been. >> part of this war. >> they have. been very much helping the ukrainians. in their. >> successes. >> helping the ukrainians in their defenses. now. >> to be fair. >> they haven't just. been providing intelligence, they've also been training the. the ukrainians about using. >> intelligence gathering intelligence. >> so the ukrainians. >> are in a much. better position. >> today to. use what europe has. given them, to.

>> use what they can. >> collect themselves. >> now, nothing. >> is. >> going to. >> as john pointed. >> out. >> replace america's network. >> of satellites. >> signals intelligence, human networks. >> but they. >> have been trained well. >> but you're right. this is. >> going to be enormously difficult. >> and i. think a. lot of. >> cia officers. >> are likely hoping. >> that this is only a. >> temporary pause. >> that that. some that that something. >> happens to turn on the intelligence sharing. again, though, you know, we do not. >> know exactly what. >> the trump administration will ask of the ukrainians to. >> make that happen. >> let me read you some additional reporting on this from cnn. top russian lawmaker andre kartapolov. in recent days called for the united states to stop providing ukraine with intelligence. he underscored the boon trump may have already offered moscow on the battlefield. quote, it would be much more important if the

americans stopped giving them intelligence information. then this would allow us to. >> achieve results. >> more quickly, he said. this is something the russians. >> didn't hide. >> wanting trump. >> to do. >> and this is something that today trump has done. >> trump has totally betrayed ukraine and he's betrayed. american values. and what he's done in the last couple of hours is drive the knife deeper into the back of the ukrainian people, into. >> the backs. >> of our allies and nato and america's standing in the world. this is cutting the legs out from under the ukrainians. and the next way he just keeps going, phase after phase, in crippling their ability to defend themselves from a foreign aggressor. so it's hard to imagine a situation where it would be a better week for putin and for the russians. our enemies are celebrating. what trump continues to do is victim shame zelensky and the ukrainians. he's turning it upside down. he's trying to change the narrative for the world and for what is truth. and

all of us as americans have to push back now and stand for the ukrainian people, even if our president and vice president and his administration won't. this is not just about their national security. it's about ours. and we've never been more isolated. we've never been more hated. and i think we've never been more vulnerable than at any other time, except maybe when we invaded iraq. and we don't have all those allies around us anymore. as a reminder to 40 ukrainian troops died in iraq standing alongside of us. they've always stood alongside of us. and the president right now is totally betraying them. >> well, what does it look like to turn around military. supplies in its tracks? >> it's devastating. i mean, it's people waiting for ammunition. it's people waiting for resupplies. and the intelligence assets are also devastating because now they don't know about inbound missiles that might hit children. and i think that's what we have to remind the folks who maybe are somehow mixed up about this. i mean, can you imagine if our allies said this to us after 911, if they said, you know what, we're going to

deny you intelligence assets, we're going to deny you military resources, and good luck trying to negotiate with al qaeda and osama bin laden. it's upside down world, and we have to push back on what is true and what is right. the russians are the bad guys. the ukrainians are the good guys. and if we stand with russia, we are becoming the bad guys. and that's devastating. not just for ukraine, but for america. >> what is, in your view, the best way to do that? >> we have to stand with ukraine, and we should have continued the path of standing with ukraine and standing with nato and pressuring putin instead of pressuring zelensky. that's why this is victim shaming. there's no focus on crippling russia. there's no focus on denying russia. there's no focus on even talking about russia. last night's state of the union address totally, you know, abandon any kind of rhetoric that would put pressure on putin. so ask yourself, what is he doing to put pressure on putin? he's doing nothing. he's doing absolutely the opposite. that's why the russians are celebrating. our enemies are celebrating around the world, and america continues to be more vulnerable and more at risk. >> director brennan, 81% of all

americans distrust and dislike vladimir putin. only 9% have different views. 65% of all americans in the latest polling believe that what we've supplied monetarily to aid ukraine is either just right or inadequate. we should give them more. the public is with ukraine in this fight against russia. and i think what's what's alarming is that that doesn't seem to put any friction in the system and complete capitulation on the trump administration's part, including from men who have been russia hawks, men like marco rubio to vladimir putin. >> yeah. >> it's shocking that they've been able to reverse course despite the many years of their concern expressed publicly about russia was doing, and the fact that russia trampled the sovereign borders of another country have killed and injured over hundreds of thousands of ukrainians, have really ravaged that country and destroyed it. i mean, it really is quite, quite puzzling as to how this has

occurred, the way it has. and, you know, again, in my nearly 35 years of work in national security intelligence community, there was never an instance under the six presidents that i worked for where the flow of intelligence was cut off to a partner or an ally because of some political reason, or in an effort to extort the political leadership to change course on something. this is unprecedented, certainly in recent history that, again, a u.s. administration would decide to stop the flow of intelligence that is so vital to keeping civilians and ukrainians alive that we would do something like that and stoop to that, that, that level. that's why marco rubio and mike wallace and others, the ones that have been so strongly, you know, anti-russian as far as what they've done in ukraine. again, i don't know how they can just jettison their principles in order to support the policies of donald trump. >> julian barnes, do you think we would know if the intelligence was paused to

russia but still collected and given? i mean, pause paused in terms of sharing it with our ukrainian allies and instead disseminated. >> to russia. >> i mean, that would. >> be deeply. >> shocking if we actually started. >> sharing intelligence. >> with russia. i think. that we would hear about that if that we were to go so far, we've already. gotten reflections. >> when this administration. is breaking norms. and stopping intelligence partnership. >> with allies. >> if it went so far as to affirmatively. help russia with intelligence. >> we will know about that soon, i would think. now. >> i would think. >> that that would be. >> the kind of thing. >> that would. >> get republicans. upset and republicans. >> to speak out, but. >> they. haven't spoken out so.

>> far about. trump's policy toward russia. >> and ukraine. very much so. >> you know, it would be difficult. to count on that. but, i. >> mean. >> i don't think we have to go so far. >> the cutting. >> off of. intelligence to. >> ukraine is devastating enough. >> like that is going to totally. >> rebalance this war. it is if fighting goes. >> on, it is going to put. >> the. >> ukrainians at a disadvantage. russia could start to make real gains. that will change the calculus. >> of a peace terms. >> and not in a way that's in the u.s. interest. right? it's in the us interest for a just peace that creates a sovereign ukraine. and that's not what vladimir putin wants. and giving him an advantage on the battlefield is not going to lead to that. just peace. >> julian barnes, it's incredible reporting. thank you for joining us to talk about it. director brennan, thank you for helping us try to make sense of it and for starting us off

today. paul sticks around when we come back, donald trump and elon musks cuts are now coming. for those who have done the. >> most for our country. >> america's veterans will have more on that story, plus, a temporary reprieve for automakers and boaters today on the president's tariff plan, a roller coaster ride of a plan that isn't expected to do a thing about the fears of inflation that are still growing. and later in the broadcast, fired federal workers address how the loss of their jobs inside the government is hitting all of us, and how it plans to continue to impact every aspect of american life. we'll have all those stories and we'll have all those stories and more when deadline w i'm at the home internet awards, with the t-mobile home internet guys! what's it like working with your best friend? you make me feel safe, like t-mobile's advanced cyber security. you're there for me 24/7 like t-mobile's personal tech support. you're my rock. you guys have made a lot of home internet commercials. what's changed? my feelings for him won't change, like t-mobile's price lock. they won't raise your rate on internet. our relationship feels like a rose born without thorns.

oohhh! get t-mobile 5g home internet. choose from plans packed with benefits. protected. supported. price lock. you better stop it. greg takes prevagen for his brain and this is his story. hi, i'm greg. i live in bloomington, illinois. i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. eight years ago, i just didn't feel like i was on my game. i started taking prevagen and i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. i've been taking prevagen for eight years now and it is still helping me tremendously. for 17 years. american prevagen. for your brain. technology and innovation. >> are a part of everything we do, from helping us attract new customers to facilitating deliveries through websites and apps. i'm really. excited about what. >> artificial intelligence can do. >> for small businesses like ours. >> this game changing

technology. >> can. >> make. us smarter and more efficient. >> advancing open source ai. >> will make our. >> economy and main. dave's been very excited about saving big with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. five years? -five years. and he's not alone. -high five. it's five years of reliable gig speed internet. five years of advanced securit. five years of a great rate that won't change. it's back. but only for a limited time. high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee.

powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. when our numbers guy, frank, goes on vacation the deals on the most affordable german-engineered car brand in america get even better. he's coming back! hop in during volkswagen deal days. the deals are in while frank is out. 2025 models during volkswagen deal day. >> as the trump administration forges ahead during these critical first 100 days, rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> more than ever. this is not a time to pretend this isn't happening. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at nine on msnbc. >> what we do is try. >> to cut right to the bone of

what we're seeing in washington that day. >> they're slashing. >> staff. >> crushing unions, and selling off the va. for what? >> so billionaires. >> can make more money while veterans sit on waitlists, or worse, they'll get no treatment. >> our president was asleep while musk was at the wheel. do you know what happens to a. >> serviceman when they fall asleep? when they're on duty? >> veterans don't. >> trust him. he's not one of us. >> so that. >> was eric rodriguez. he's a veteran of the war in iraq. he was reacting to the news that the trump administration is cutting thousands of jobs from the department of veterans affairs. on that, the ap reports this, quote, the department of veterans affairs is planning a reorganization that includes cutting more than 80,000 jobs. wow, 80,000 jobs from the agency

that provides health care for retired military members. the va is chief of staff, told top level officials at the agency tuesday that it had an objective to cut enough employees to return to 2019 staffing levels of just under 400,000. that would require terminating tens of thousands of employees after the va had expanded during the biden administration, as well as to cover veterans impacted by burn pits. for some veterans, that means not just worrying about what this means for their health care and their family's health care. they could also lose their jobs entirely. more than 25% of the va's staff and workforce is made up of veterans. paul rieckhoff is here. also joining us, msnbc political analyst tim miller, the host of the bulwark podcast. >> paul. so i've warned that they're going to come for the strongest and biggest places first. and they went to the pentagon first. and i have tried to warn people they're coming for the va next. it is a place

that has a large federal budget. it has hundreds of thousands of employees. it's culturally very important. it's symbolically very important. and this is right on strategy. i warn folks that musk is going to come for the va, and now his flamethrower of destruction is firmly focused on the va. they see how big it is. they see how valuable it is. they see how important it is culturally. and they are firing 80,000 people as a start. there's still a lot more way to go. and 25% of va employees are veterans themselves, but one third of all government employees are veterans, right? so i think that they are they are coming at us very hard. and i think in some levels, there's a silver lining here because they've misjudged this. because the purge patriotic people, i think, are going to become the foundation and the core of the opposition, whether it's somebody like cq brown, it's the fired fbi workers or it's the now thousands, probably tens of thousands of veterans. they are going to organize. they already are. they're protesting at va facilities. they're protesting at tesla dealerships. and anybody who crosses veterans

politically in american history usually pays a price. so this may be the leaders we're looking for. are people like that guy rodriguez and others who are going to rise up to this moment and pierce through the crap. >> i want to believe that i'll grab on to that. it'll it'll it'll get me through the next hour and a half. but i want to understand why veterans believe trump is interested in dismantling an agency that is on the other end of a desperate call or a health crisis. and in a lot of parts of this country, frankly, a lot of red states in this country, they're hours away as it is. why weaken that fragile lifeline? >> because i think it's part of the larger strategy, which is to take down the government to its studs. and for decades, the koch brothers and others had a grand vision of ripping down the va and privatizing it. pete hegseth was the leader of concerned veterans of america, which for years advocated for ripping down the va and privatizing it and sending it out into the private market. and i think that this

has always been a prime target for them, regardless of whether or not veterans are there. and i think the insight here is they don't care about veterans, they don't care about anyone. they care about an ideological agenda and seizing the levers of power. and what i would tell folks is if they treat veterans like this, if they treat retired generals like this, how do you think they're going to treat everyone else? how do you think they're going to treat you? we are just first. but this is a line. they're going to work their way down. it started with dodd and now they're at va. >> tim, it's almost boring to frame a question this way, but i'm going to do it anyway. another thing that people thought was sacred is being annihilated again, not in back rooms, not in leaks to reporters, but on tv. here's alina habba. >> well, as. >> you know, we care. >> about veterans tremendously. >> i mean. >> that's. >> something the president has. >> always cared about. anybody in blue, anybody that serves this country. but at the same time, we have taxpayer dollars. we have a fiscal responsibility

to use taxpayer dollars to pay people that actually work. that doesn't mean that we forget our veterans by any means. we are going to care for them in the right. >> way, but perhaps. >> they're not fit to have. >> a job at. >> this moment, or not willing to come to work. >> veterans are, quote, not fit to have a job at this moment or not willing to come to work and quote. that's them in their own words on veterans. >> yeah. >> boy. >> that's i think that that's probably a video that will come back to haunt her. and even if. >> not. >> it is. >> just it. >> is cruel and dismissive. >> and nonsensical. >> i mean, like, they're just a. >> couple of practical. points i think are worth making. one at the beginning of the clip, she talks about tax dollars and like being a good steward of tax dollars. and so i think that. >> you know, speaking. >> to former republicans, i can speak to this. i still really care about that. >> obviously there are democrats. >> that care about that too. >> i still think the government is too big. >> like this is. >> a farce, right? >> like if you actually cared. >> about balancing the budget,

if you actually cared about government waste, like. >> this is not the. >> way you would go about it. indiscriminately firing people while planning to pass a massive budget, budget busting tax cut through the congress like that is their plan. they put forth a budget already, even in the best spin that they give. you know where they have maga economists cooking the books. even those people say it's going to increase the deficit by a trillion like that. and the reality is it's going to be like 5 trillion. so they're not trying to be fiscal stewards. they're not trying to balance the budget. this is, as paul said, an effort to tear the government down to its studs, to punish people, to go after foes, and to reward political allies that they want to replenish the smaller government with. so like that is that is what they're doing. also, as a practical level, it's just so gross what she says there about people aren't able to come into work or not willing to come into work to do the job. like it's just like it's so stupid. they don't even talk to regular people that are working in the government. like,

i was talking to somebody, you know, who said that their friend is a veteran and has ptsd. i think it was actually ruben gallego that was telling me this on the podcast, and he said that he was talking to somebody that, you know, has issues. having been a veteran, has medical issues. they live like 50 miles from the office. and so they're now have this new rule where you have to drive into the office. so, you know, you're in the car in traffic an hour both ways. you get there. they don't have enough desks for you because they haven't actually done the work to do this streamlining thing. right. so then you go into the office and you're like standing around in the break room just because elon musk said, you know, some billionaire south african immigrant says you have to be there. when you serve the country, you're doing your job. you're doing it well from home. right? like, again, it's not as if they're like, okay, we've done a review. some of you aren't doing enough work from home. you need to come back into the office. it's none of that. it's just indiscriminate. it is cruel. and they are doing it

because they want to regain as gain as much power in the federal bureaucracy as they can. >> and they're also trying to erase the steps taken by president joe biden to deal with burn pits. and that that massive effort, which was a huge effort, a recent effort, i guess, least importantly, a political accomplishment of joe biden's. but that didn't seem to be the point when the work was being done. how do you see that? >> devastating. i mean, we fought basically for three decades to pass the pack act, right? and that provides support for toxic exposures all the way back to agent orange. this is what vietnam veterans were fighting for. in addition to burn pits, folks who remember jon stewart had to go down to washington and shame them into moving this forward. but i think it's part of this larger agenda, which is about getting people to give up, getting people to quit, getting people to say, you know what? it's too hard to drive in. i'm out. right. and getting people to surrender so that they can remove opposition,

consolidate power, and move the overall agenda forward. and veterans are pain in the, right? if you can get thousands of them out, that's going to be beneficial to your political agenda. the problem is they're going out into protest. they're going out into veteran service organizations. they're going to run for public office. and i view this in a different context. in the political one. this is almost like the anti-war movement, right? you're seeing people speak out. you're seeing people be brave. and i'm not looking for members of congress there in new john kerry's. there are new bobby mueller's that are going to emerge. >> it's going to. come from somebody. >> it's going to come from the public. i think you're right. i think we've had this. i think we've crossed through this passageway where where you're not looking. to an elected politician to save you. right. you're going to look at how responsive they are. but i think you're absolutely right. and i think just to tie it to your first point to the point you're making now, the attack on the truth is so that people can't talk to one another with shared truths and push back against lawmakers. and that's why they're they're calling on, i mean, tim miller, they are

telling republicans to stop having town hall meetings. >> yeah, well, they are, because i guess why? right. like, none of them are being very deft at convincing anybody that the reality that they are living is not true. right. and so instead, you know, i think that they're going to go into the safe media spaces where they know, you know, how they can manipulate the conversation and try to advance propaganda. so and i just want to throw one more thing on top of what paul said, because i do agree. i talked to amanda lipman, who runs run for something this morning. and she's like, every, every time there is a purge in the federal government, their group, which like, encourages and helps organize people run for office, has seen an influx of people who have signed up and said they're interested in running for office. and she said that it's more now, like i think in the first three months than the almost the entire 2018 cycle. they've almost passed it already. and so i do think you're seeing this, and i think that folks that are laid off from these veterans organizations are veterans that have been laid off within the

government, i think are prime people to go out and do that. and that may not be like the mass protest movement or something that people see, but it could be as, as paul points out, like individuals stepping up and saying, i'm going to run, and that having a ramification down the line. >> we'll be watching. paul rykoff an important day to have you here. thank you. thank you. here with us, tim sticks around the latest episode of paul's podcast, independent americans, is out now. really important conversation with senator mark kelly about lots of things, but including the latest standoff over russia's war, russia's invasion into ukraine also had, for us, hoping to soothe rattled market watchers, the trump administration putting off some of their very unpopular, relatively inexplicable tariffs. relatively inexplicable tariffs. but just for one no matter who you are, where you live, or what you believe, there are things we all have in common for black americans and for all people. what matters most is

family, community, and a chance to thrive. but a future where we can all thrive is under threat, and our schools and our towns, even in our halls of justice. the naacp® has been on the front lines for over 100 years, fighting for rights still denied to too many in this country. but our work is not done, our fight continues. with decades of progress on the line. we are not going back. what matters most in this moment is what you do next. we need your support today. so please call or go online right now to keepadvancing.org. for $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a champion for change and help the naacp® keep advancing in the areas that matter most. winning the fight for racial justice, health equity for black families. equal access to education for our children, protecting women's rights, voting access

and growing a new generation of leaders. the naacp continues to be a pillar in black america, fighting to keep advancing liberty, justice, and freedom so we all have access to the things that matter most. call the number on your screen or go online to donate monthly. when you give by credit card. we'll send you this exclusive t-shirt to show you are a champion for change, fighting for social justice and all of our rights. together, let's fight for community and opportunity and the chance to thrive. because the naacp® can't do any of this important work without one important person, you. so please call or go online to keepadvancing.org today.

these. >> anymore. >> i have. >> sling okay morning. i only

let sling deliver the news. >> i need to stay informed. >> thank you very much. >> nice one. >> nope. >> sling gives us all the news we want. >> in a quick and reliable manner and. >> at a. wonderful price. >> this critical time calls for the critical. >> news coverage. >> that sling provides. >> okay. >> see you tomorrow. >> the most. >> important news. >> at the best price. sling lets. >> you do that. >> you look at. what dodge has. >> done in. >> terms of cutting. >> federal spending. there are lots of. >> questions in. >> terms of whether or not. >> this is going to lead to a further slowdown. >> can dodge induce. >> a recession? >> with all of. >> this cutting? and what about the. >> tariffs and the. >> pressure that that brings to. >> bear as well. >> these tariffs cheryl's right on these tariffs. >> are. >> really scary. >> and i. >> think you're right. it has a real. possibility of bringing on a recession. >> when you're losing the folks over at fox business. wow i thought it was important that you see that fox business on the

revelation that the guy who filed for bankruptcy six times may not be quite so genius at running the country's economy. and it's not just over at fox. our friend sarah longwell, a longtime pollster, writes in the atlantic today that many trump voters who picked donald trump over vice president kamala harris because of issues like the rising cost of living, may be having some buyer's remorse. she writes this, quote, trump voters in focus groups are showing signs that they do not believe that trump's policy priorities are about cheaper groceries. instead, they see him getting distracted by culture war issues that won't actually improve their lives. quote i wanted a lot of change as far as inflation and the price of everything. that's charlie, a biden to trump voter in georgia who said that in a focus group last month. quote, so i haven't seen any real changes there. as a matter of fact, i think for me, things are worse as far as inflation. the market panic at least seems to be getting to donald trump. donald trump is

granting a one month exemption on his stiff new tariffs on imports from mexico and canada, specifically for u.s. automakers, as worries and fears persist that his newly launched trade war could crush domestic manufacturing. trump did not announce what moves, if any, he will take to address the fact that the people who voted for him are still experiencing have a lived experience of their bills going up, not down, because of his tariffs. joining our conversation at the table, new york times editorial board member, msnbc political analyst mara gay. we started this conversation in the last block, and i want to pull you in on this. there is a lived experience that is totally grassroots, that can't be manufactured, that doesn't come from a politician lab and get perfected with consultants and ads. and it's voter sentiment.

and when you've got people calling in to sean hannity's talk show about cancer research, when you've got republicans showing up in ruby red districts angry about everything from members of congress abdicating their constitutional role as serving as a check. when you've got the federal cuts really being something that troubles people as they look so clunky and indiscriminate, and then when you see the price of everything from eggs to just about everything else, go up with the trade war on the precipice, people feel bad about things. >> yeah. you know. we talk so. >> much as we have in. >> over years. >> now about. >> the big lie. and, you know. >> lately. >> i would say until january, that really referred to january 6th. but what i think is interesting is that, as it turns out, donald trump lied to his. his supporters by telling them, don't worry, i'm going to fight for you and hurt everyone else. i'm going to hurt liberal america. i'm going to hurt blue america. i'm going to hurt the

federal workers who you think of as academics and black postal workers, and they live somewhere else. they're not in your town. you don't have to worry about it. i'm going to take care of you. you're my people. yeah. and actually, it turns out that that was a lie. that donald trump, i believe, exploited a lot of economic uncertainty and a lot of really old racial divisions and tensions in this country and hatreds. and instead, what he's done is install elon musk to cut with absolutely no regard to the way this impacts people's lives. and so now we're seeing, of course, the result is that even farmers in the middle of the country, in the deepest red states, are showing up to town halls, wanting to know what is happening. and now republicans tellingly, i love the guidance that they were given by the fcc yesterday. don't don't have town halls. what does that tell you anymore? like. >> where are those people? i

mean, they still have phones. they still have the idea that that will stop the political outrage is ridiculous. >> but it does raise the question. it's like, this isn't these aren't popular policies. so the people around donald trump, and there's also another element here of how many times did we hear early on in 2016, 20 1718 from republicans in the trump administration, you know, privately saying, oh, we think we can control donald trump. we can manage him. yeah, i'm here to make things to mitigate the problem. well, i think that we saw so much of that bullishness from wall street who supported him in the last election, thinking that these money managers thinking, well, donald trump is going to be great. it's going to be all deregulation all the time and it's just going to be a bonanza. i don't think that the tariffs were something that they thought were going to actually happen. so there's a lot of questions, i think about

who's been taken in at this point. >> yeah, i mean, tim, the i think the other thing that no one seemed to want to say out loud is that this instability is bad for the economy. >> yeah. i never really understood this from the money managers. every rich person i talked to. i was like, why? why aren't more people making a risk reward assessment here? wall street or among ceos, just about the instability of trump, about how erratic he is. and sure, maybe you'll get a tax cut. maybe you'll get a regulation cut you like, but but like what about the downside risk of trump and whatever reason a lot of these guys, just whether it was out of greed or shortsightedness or what, you know, whatever you want to give, the reason they, they didn't they didn't take that risk into account. and you're already seeing that start to change. i don't i actually don't think this guy is a trump supporter this time. but he but you're a mets fan, right? nicole? >> yes. >> you're a team. you want to have your team owner on because i've been playing this clip from

him. steve cohen, hedge fund guy joanie to trump in 16 was with christie in the primary this time. so, you know, it's not like a liberal finance person by any means. and he's he was on a panel a couple of days ago. and it was just he was just succinct about it. he's like, look, if you combine sticky inflation with trump making it worse, worse with tariffs, with the trade wars making it more uncertain with some level of austerity at the federal government through doge, if your government spending fewer jobs and like you put that all together, what you have is a recipe for, you know, a very weak economy and possibly even worse than that. and i just think that anybody who is looking at what is happening rationally right now, i think particularly among the finance set, they're kind of starting to come around to the reality that, like, they're not going to get just the cookies part of trump, like they're getting they're going to get all the bad stuff too. and unfortunately, it's going to be a lot of regular people that end up suffering

because of it. >> i love that you had to point me to my team's owner, making comments about something other than spring training is going and how juan soto is doing. >> but i. >> i will go. >> i'll go look. >> for it. i need all of you. i need both of you to stick around. we just sneak in a break. we'll all be right back. >> as a cardiologist. >> when. >> i put my patients. >> on a statin to reduce. >> cholesterol. >> i also tell. >> them. >> it can deplete their. >> coq10 levels. >> i recommend taking qanon coq10. >> qanon has three. times better. >> absorption than. >> regular coq10. >> schnall the brand i trust. >> hi. glad everyone's here. let's get started. >> when they want to squeeze. >> up, let me share. >> my screen. >> okay. >> sorry about that. >> i'm excited. >> to share this. >> to share this. >> they this land is your land. this land is my land.

this land we love belongs to all of us. yet not everyone is treated equally. right now, millions of americans are fighting for the things promised to all by the constitution. freedom. justice. equality. you can help by joining the american civil liberties union today. so please call now or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day helps protect our democracy. this land is your land. this land is my land. from california to the new york island. with support from people just like you. the aclu is leading the fight to protect our civil liberties. will you join us? call or go to myaclu.org today.

use your credit card and you'll receive this special we the people t shirt and more to show you're part of the movement to protect the rights of all people. nobody living can ever stop me as i go walking that freedom highway. this land was made for you and me. together we can ensure that this land continues to belong to everyone. because we the people means all of us. so please join us. call or go online to myaclu.org today. (man) got one more antoine. call or go online to (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪

(man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. when you're a small-business owner, your to-do list can be...a lot. ♪♪ super helpful. ♪♪ [ cheering ] what are invoices? progressive makes it easy to see if you can save money with a commercial auto quote online so you can get back to all your other to-dos. absolutely not. get a quote at progressivecommercial.com. i've i've tried to sort of put words to. for years now the critics of donald trump believed him.

right. like i don't think he's done very many surprising things in five weeks or audacious, but most of them were previewed. other than the amount of power and the lack of checks that elon musk would have. right? but his supporters didn't didn't really believe him. the tariffs like he loves tariffs. he's talking about tariffs for years. and i think at one point maybe over the summer, people talked about $13 avocados as a thing. that wasn't inconceivable. we are now sort of on the precipice of this. and it will hurt everybody, including all of his voters. >> yeah, i mean, that takes us kind of inside the psychology of the trump and the maga movement. and i i'm no expert in that, honestly. but what i what i will say about it is i think we are in an environment, a media environment in which i think especially trump voters. and we know this from research and reporting that trump voters, especially the lower information voters, are getting, kind of they're not getting the full picture. so we've seen tiktok

videos, for example, where there are folks saying, hey, i regret my vote, i was fired, i'm a federal employee. i was a federal employee. i was attracted to donald trump because he told me i was going to get free ivf. he told me he was going to lower the cost of groceries. i didn't really think he was going to follow through on 2025. i didn't really think that he would institute tariffs, and i think that's very frustrating, of course, for us, because we have said over and over and over again, here's what he intends to do. his advisers say this is real. this is happening. but i think there is some sense of kind of information. echo chamber that's happening here for sure, right? i mean, it's different when you engage with a news story and a newspaper of your choosing. you're getting the fuller picture. and i don't think that's the way most americans are consuming news, at least the lower information ones. and that that is a big part of this story

for the democratic party right now. how do they reach those voters? >> yeah. well, i mean, i guess, tim, tamara's point, they're not going to have to. right. they're going to go to buy six avocados and say, oh my god, i can take the whole family out for steak instead. i mean, i mean, to mara's point that that conundrum may actually collide with more lived experiences that know voters like trump voters or anybody else. >> right? yeah. look, nicole, if we end up being right and if this ends up being a s show of trump university proportions, which is what i think most of us expect, certainly what i expect then like that's going to do the job for the democrats. right. there's a lot of this conversation about what tactic should the democrats be using. and i have plenty of complaints and advice for things that they could do better to reach voters. but the people that are gettable both in the midterms and then going forward for democrats aren't the people that are in red hats, right. like and that

is just kind of important to get your head around. like there is a big group of people out there that. christian voters like, folks that just don't read a ton of news, folks that are not highly informed about the news. it's, you know, it's a lot of working class people. it's working class white people and working class people of color. and a lot of them went for trump because they were annoyed about inflation or annoyed about some cultural, you know, issue. and like a lot of them, i think are unfortunately, you know, going to meet the reality of a trump university presidency, right, which is that a lot of people get screwed over. and so i think that will be the best thing that the democrats have going for them, even though it's really sad and unfortunate. and i think the other challenge, like the long term challenge of how they communicate with those voters better, you know, it's kind of on a different track. >> it's such an important conversation, one i'm sure we'll continue to have. thank you to both of you. ahead, for us, breaking with decades of

precedent, the us is engaging in talks with the group the government has labeled a terrorist organization. we'll tell you about it next. >> sadly. windshield chips can turn into windshield cracks. but at least you can go to safe flight.com and schedule a fix in minutes. sweet safe flight can come to you for free. and our highly trained techs can replace your windshield right at your home. >> they flight. safe flight. >> don't wait. go to safe >> don't wait. go to safe your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. our advanced matching helps find talented candidates, so you can connect with them fast. visit indeed.com/hire (vo) sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking.with them fast. unpack once and get closer to iconic landmarks,

local life and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there. viking. exploring the world in comfort. war. >> moving. >> shooting. >> i'm worried for my future. >> i'm worried for my future. zero. conflict is raging across the world, and millions of children's lives are being devastated by war, hunger, disease and poverty. we urgently need your help to reach children in crisis. please call or go online to give just $10 a month. only $0.33 a day. we need 1000 new monthly donors this month

to help children in crisis around the world and right here at home. you can help us provide food, essentials, and lifesaving medical care to children in the most need. you. know when a in the darkest times, children suffer the most. you can help by calling right now and giving just $10 a month. all we need are 1000 monthly donors. please call or go online now. your donation today can help secure additional grants, which can multiply the impact of your support up to ten times. and when you call with your credit card, we will send you this save the children® tote bag as a thank you for your support.

>> your small monthly donation of just $10 could be the reason a child in crisis survives. show them they're not alone. please call or go online to givetosave.org. to help save lives. brand. >> at. walmart that. >> stands above the rest. >> it's super beats. >> discover why more cardiologists recommend. >> super beats for heart health support than any. other beat brand at super beats. >> com. >> in an unprecedented move, the united states is holding direct talks with hamas over the hostages still held in gaza. that news was confirmed by the white house today and by donald trump just now on social media. president trump wrote this to the people of gaza. a beautiful future awaits. but not if you hold hostages. if you do, you are dead. make a smart decision.

release the hostages now or there will be hell to pay later. it comes on the heels of the end of a six week cease fire between israel and hamas, with no mention of peace negotiations in sight. the u.s. government has never before engaged directly with hamas, which was designated a terrorist organization in 1997. axios was first to report news of the talks. there are 59 hostages still being held by hamas in gaza. they include five americans. the israel defense forces have confirmed 35 of them are dead, but they believe that 22 hostages are still alive. we'll stay on top of that story for you, coming up for us in the next hour of deadline. white house jacob soboroff is in the house. he'll join us at the table with his brand new reporting, extraordinary reporting on the human face and the human costs of elon musk's slash and burn approach to slash and burn approach to cutting the federal we shall overcome.

we shall overcome. the struggle for equal rights in the united states has been hard fought, but even today, we're still fighting for racial justice, for voting rights, and against hate and extremism. you can help us win the fight and envision a future where all americans can thrive. by joining the southern poverty law center today. please call now or go online to helpfighthate.org to become a friend of the center. all it takes is just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. we shall live in peace. we shall live in peace. for more than 50 years we've been defending the rights of people facing discrimination, racism and bigotry in the u.s,

and we do it all at no cost to our clients. but the civil rights movement is not just in the past. it's our movement right now. so please call or go to helpfighthate.org and join us. when you use your credit card you'll receive this special fight hate t-shirt to show your standing up for civil rights. the future of our country is in our hands. but it won't come without a fight. that is why we need your support today. deep in my heart. i do believe we shall overcome someday. with your support, we will overcome hate and injustice. so please call or go online to helpfighthate.org today.

>> who is man's best friend. >> otter, the ai meeting

assistant. >> i think for myself, being a presidential management fellow, this is a 100% merit based program. people coming in are, you know, taking jobs that have lesser pay. they want to serve the american public and for you to, you know, blanket statements saying the entire bureaucracy is untamed and, you know, doesn't have any tethering to anything. i mean, look at us. we're every day average americans that just want to serve the american public. and we're not allowed to do that. >> hi again everybody. it's now 5:00 in new york. behind every cut that the chainsaw wielding billionaire and his team are making and bragging about. are real people like that the kind of people you'd want to be on the front lines if you wanted your government to actually become more efficient people like the former presidential management fellow at the department of housing and urban development who spoke with our dear friend and colleague jacob soboroff last night following the president's address. real people who do real work for all

of us, the american people and the american taxpayer. not because they have to, but because they have chosen to serve their country. and while we all agree that a bloated and in some cases wasteful federal government is a bad thing and we should reform that, we want cuts that are strategic and helpful and do the least amount of harm. but that's not what anyone says is happening. another fired worker who worked at the u.s. digital service. the exact kind of worker you need. if you're serious about what you say you're doing, pointed out to jacob that some firings actually hinder what the administration says it's trying to accomplish. >> the part that i watched you react to most strongly was when he said, the media and our friends in the democrat party keep saying we need new legislation. we must have legislation to secure the border. but it turned out that all we really needed was a new president. what bugged you so much about that? >> i think. >> the demonization of immigrants in the speech today was as disappointing as it was

frightening. and the thing that bothered me is it's a multifaceted approach that we need to attack the immigration problem. and it's been an issue over multiple presidents. >> which you yourself have been working on in terms of efficiency. >> definitely part of it are legislative fixes, but. the other part are really process and tech improvements. and by getting rid of the subject matter experts that do this work for decades and the people who have the tech capabilities, and then more importantly, the trust that you build between agencies to actually align and prioritize this work is really, really difficult to see. you can gut something in five minutes, but to get the apparatus back up and running, that might take five years. so it was really disappointing to see some of those comments. >> she was incredible. so these cuts are counterproductive. they're cruel and they're carried out. they're inefficient. and it's ironic considering the name of elon musk's team. and according to a

federal judge last week, it's illegal. a us district judge from san francisco said the office of personnel management, which had sent out a memo directing a mass firing of probationary workers, quote, does not have any authority whatsoever whatsoever under any statute in the history of the universe to hire and fire employees within another agency, forcing the opm to backtrack and then issue a revised memo yesterday that one reads, quote. please note that by this memorandum, opm is not directing agencies to take any specific performance based actions regarding probationary employees. agencies have ultimate decision making authority over and responsibility for such personnel actions. that's where we start the hour. some of our favorite reporters and friends, the aforementioned jacob soboroff, is here. he's an nbc news political and national correspondent with me at the table. former republican congressman and msnbc political analyst david jolly is here. and democratic strategist and

professor at columbia university, msnbc political analyst michael is here. jacob, this was this was so awesome. and i it's been a long time since i worked in government, but i was reminded of so many of these folks who and i've had people on that said, you know, the federal workforce is extraordinary, and they're used to every four years turning and sort of pivoting some of the mission specific changes. they're actually the best in the world at doing that because of the nature of working for different administrations. and that was just in such sharp relief that that they're there to serve the public, sort of the people on the receiving end of any government service. >> i loved so much spending time with those folks, not because you sort of said they provided in terms of efficiency. they were providing what donald trump says he wants to do to the government, what elon musk says he wants to do to the government. it was very clear to me that that's what they were already doing. and it wasn't just those four. i think i said last night when we put the call

out to say we wanted to hear from former federal workers, people who had been fired, there was such an overwhelming response. it would have filled that entire studio. we didn't have nearly enough room. >> we could go back and do that. >> i would love to. i would love to, because there are so many stories of people just like those four that not only were they dedicated their life to the civil service, i think i called it the beating heart of the civil service last night. but they could have had better jobs elsewhere. they could have made more money elsewhere, and instead they left places like job offers at netflix and being at harvard university to spend what they thought was going to be a career in the federal civil service. and so whether it was jesus who was working at hud and literally keeping an eye on the grants that were going to the localities to make sure the money wasn't misspent or misappropriated dealing, he was saying trump was saying we have an unelected bureaucracy that's allowing things to sort of run rampant. he said no, my entire job was to respond to congressional inquiries, to make sure that the money was getting to the places that the money was supposed to be. or catherine, whose job for the u.s. forest

service was literally to go out in the forest and collect revenue from people who were in the park to actually bring in revenue to the federal government, or nigella, who was working for the us digital service on immigration related issues, to make sure they weren't spending a lot of money and increasing the time it would take to reduce the backlog of people that were being sent out of the country. what the trump administration says they want to do, or alex taylor, who might have been my favorite in terms of the story because he said he was working on critical rare earth minerals, the exact type of minerals that the president said that we needed more of, and then he got fired. i think we have a clip of that. >> can we watch that? yeah. >> what are the long term implications for research at usgs if they're firing people like you? >> i think. >> targeting early career researchers is a devastating for the agency. just because the workforce tends to skew older already. and if we lose our junior staff, the institutional knowledge is at risk of not being passed down to up and coming geologists and other

scientists. >> so i don't think. >> it's going to be good for our. research capabilities. i supported active research. projects on identifying sources of critical minerals in the us domestically. it bothers me that he's more interested in engaging in neocolonialism to get minerals from other countries, rather than supporting the scientists and the researchers who are aiding the minerals industry. here in america. >> you're talking about greenland. >> and ukraine. >> so talk about efficiency. talk about efficiency. he's saying we could accomplish with rare earth minerals here in the united states, or at least have a long term research project to explore that instead of trying to take over greenland to get minerals in this deal from ukraine. the thing that that united all of them, i think, is that they all felt like that the trump administration has no idea who they're actually firing, that these firings are so indiscriminate that people who can help them, even though maybe their politics are different from the administration, as you said, can pivot to a different mission to help the

administration accomplish their goal. yet they 86 anyways? >> well, i thought it was interesting listening to them is one. it was hard to detect what their personal political leanings were, but you could hear in all of them an expertise that would have benefited the trump administration. specifically. >> he said in the presidential management fellows program, which has existed for 48 years. it was started under jimmy carter to literally put the best and the brightest into government. trump was going on and on about dei in the speech, i think was one of the first topics that he hit. and he said, you know, he talked about air traffic controllers and doctors. but what he's said is this is a merit based program to bring people, regardless of politics, regardless of any other defining characteristics or demographics, into the government, because they're the best at what they do, period. full stop. and he just not only terminated me from hud, but terminated the entire program, which has been in existence to bring people like that into the government for 48 years. >> david jolly, this is i think,

i think the politics are even ahead of some of our reporting, with present company excluded always because he's always ahead of the reporting. but the people intuit this, right? i mean, i think the reason people are showing up at republican town halls in republican districts is because there is a sense that maybe these cuts are not about the taxpayers, they're not about the reforms people say they are. and hearing these stories is so vital. >> yeah, i think at its core, and what people are beginning to realize is this is not about government efficiency. this is not a war on inefficiency. this is a war on government. this is a war on the functions of government. they are trying to crush it. they are trying to break it. there is no other reason that you that you try to defund basically all of usaid, unless you just want to do away with usaid. that's not an efficiency argument. that's a policy argument. the disruption of coordination of public health across the globe will have significant impact. the suspension of critical medical research and scientific research will have long term impacts. those are that's a war on government, a war on policy. it

has nothing to do with efficiency. and so i think when we hear from displaced workers, i love what jacob did, because it got to the substance of how government is being disrupted. and i think this is critical for democrats. we see them today highlighting the displaced worker and the unemployed. and those are compelling human stories that should be told. these are these are good people serving their country. but to be honest, a reduction of the federal workforce is still politically popular. and so to expect that people will move politically based on that, you're preaching to the converted maga wants these people gone, but to begin to say your government no longer will be working for you is where the meat on the bone is. and i think if anything to this, there will be a latency before that's realized. there was just a va health records contract that was terminated immediately. a ten year contract to ensure that wherever a veteran goes in the va system, that their health records are immediately available to their provider. right. it was it was in it. all of those contractors felt that this week, the veterans won't

feel that now. for several months, you go to the national parks, you go to scientific research. there's a latency before people realize that their government no longer works for them and then watch out, because then what we're seeing in the town hall is you're going to see among the maga population as well, say, i didn't sign up for this type of chaos. >> i mean, what's so noteworthy, i think, about trump 2.0 is that in the first term, his rhetoric and many of his actions were directed at harming his perceived enemies in a second term. all of his actions hurt everyone. i mean, the tariff war, if power is cut off of ten american states, that will hurt everybody in them. you can't just shut off the houses of the people watching msnbc. the i mean, the mass deportation. i mean, every small business owner who depends on a community that isn't afraid to leave their house is damaged. everything they are doing has the impact of hurting everyone in this country, and it will be

impossible to spare people, people that trump thinks like him. >> it is impossible to do that. if he were actually. >> serious about reduction in government spending and efficiency, 150,000 workers leave the federal government every year through. >> just natural attrition. >> you could have found a way to save. >> money that way. >> local municipalities have to do that. it's called programs to eliminate the gap. that's what they do. there are people that. >> are charged, especially if you're head of omb. >> there are people who are charged with trying to find savings. so yes, it's an attack on government, but it's also an attack on this government. what i mean by that is it's an attack on this government that used to be headed by. >> a black man. >> it's an attack on this government that almost elected a black woman to the highest office in the land. it's an attack on a government that has been more welcoming and more supportive of people who have come to this country in search for a better life. so it's yes, it's an attack on government, but it's also a state takeover. that's what people feel. this is

hostility directed toward a very large swath of the country. and that's going to sweep up everybody. it is indiscriminate. and so one of the folks on the in your focus group talked about pipeline. if i'm working with students right now, what am i supposed to tell them about about the jobs that they can get, whether they're going into public policy or whether they're going into nonprofit space? and i shouldn't probably say that out loud because it's against my interest. but i have to have these real conversations with students about what their future is going to look like. so it's not just about what's happening to people in this country today. he is destroying an entire pipeline. that's right. of worker, of interested public servant, also of people who will bear the benefits of the service that he is cutting completely out of our ecosystem. >> did they have a theory as to why? >> no. i mean, i think, you know, bewildered, i think was the word that came up over and over again last night. but but

to your point, jesus murillo, the presidential management fellow, said, i don't have to look outside the government into the private sector. during the george w bush administration, the nasa administrator came through the presidential management fellows program. thousands of people have graduated through that program and have become elected officials, have become senior government officials. who worked for the us digital service, passed up a job at netflix, which god knows how much more that would have paid than going into the federal government. but instead, she decided to go work for the us digital service, the precursor to doge. where you're right, like, where are these people going to go now? they're not going to stick around and try to find another job in government. if they know that indiscriminately, they could be fired. and there is no answer. they don't have an answer because as i said before, they felt like, hey, maybe i still have a shot here, even though all these layoffs are starting, because what i am doing is effectuating what what donald trump and what elon musk say they actually want to see happen

in this government. >> and the reporting bears this out. the bulwark had some reporting that there were some federal workers laid off who were excited about being part of this. they had voted for trump, and they wanted to be part of this reform system. but the you know, the twisted irony is that even people that were on board that would have rowed in the same direction because of the way the cuts happened, were, were axed. >> i think the numbers here get really fascinating because as a percentage of federal spending, this is achieving nothing. absolutely nothing towards even balancing the annual federal budget, much less getting towards the debt. so you hear raw ignorance from a lot of the trump white house about how this is helping to drive down the debt. no it's not. we're talking about less than 1%, probably of the entire federal budget. but then the numbers on the outside of this are really important externally, because you're talking about spiking unemployment numbers in the first quarter of this year, like huge numbers, right, 200, 300,000 people possibly. and you're also seeing now what will that contribution be the disruption of government markets

into the quarterly gdp numbers. this whole idea of stagflation, the idea that we might see negative growth this quarter while we're continuing to see inflation and the tell, i think you and i may have discussed this yesterday. howard lutnick, the commerce secretary, knows this because he's starting to float the idea about removing government data from the gdp numbers. why? why? because they are about to disrupt the domestic economy and send ripples across the world stage. the only way donald trump survives this chaos is with a white hot economy. if the economy is white hot for the next 18 months, people overlook all of this disruption because it's what's good for me and my family. i feel pretty good. let's go. go. another two years with republicans in charge. if this economy gets tanked, donald trump's fine. he's a lame duck. he's not going anywhere but down ballot republicans. you're looking at historic losses in the midterms. >> i mean, i guess the only wrinkle or the only pushback i'd have is cuts at the faa feel terrible when you're sitting in about one scary airline

experience for passengers on that plane a week. >> yeah, i was just on a plane last night. and, you know, as i'm to your point and to that point, you know, i was actually at a training for young fellows that want to be civically engaged. and one of the things that in atlanta, mostly young men, but not exclusively. and one of the things that they're really talking about is how do we get trained to go and work with these agencies, work in organizations, but start hyper local. and that's one of the things that i really do wish for the outcome of all of this, that people take another look at local politics and get really engaged, because what's happening is people are starting to feel individually what these cuts are bringing to them the price of eggs. in my beloved bronx, there are bodegas that are selling lucy eggs, right? because people see eggs, right? because people can't afford the full carton. and so when it when you start to see how people's lives have to when they have to

make decisions, to change their routine, to change their lives because of what's happening in d.c, they're going to, yes, find someone to blame. and what democrats need to do is just be right there. >> how much is an egg, really? >> maybe it's $0.50. who knows? >> he's already started some chicken coop. >> i don't secretary. >> told him to go. >> i only buy eggs to bake. >> yeah, yeah. >> that's amazing. that's. i mean. >> no, but it's. that's amazing. >> little bags. yeah. that's amazing. that's crazy. that's where we are. and we've sort of banned from the table all of the shorthanding of cost of eggs. cost of eggs. but maybe we'll bring it back because the cost of one egg. oh. don't go. you're all leaving me. thank you so much. thank you. basil smikle. thank you. when we come back, democratic congressman dan coleman will be our guest on the dangers posed by donald trump and elon musk's deep, indiscriminate cuts to the government. black and white voters are increasingly outraged. also, talk to him about the erosion of the rule of law in his own office, and what

democrats can do about it. later in the broadcast, the united states supreme court finally standing up to donald trump and his agenda. what a majority of those justices did today to tell donald trump, no or not yet, as he might understand more he might understand more clearly. deadline. white when emergency strikes, first responders are the first ones in... but on outdated networks, the crucial technology they depend on, is limited. that's why t-mobile created t-priority... ...the only solution built for the 5g era, that can dynamically dedicate up to 10 times the capacity for first responders. it. the freedom. t-priority. built for tomorrow's emergencies. ready today. (♪♪) >> is the roar. >> of one man's engine. and the silence of another's. so choose,

but choose wisely. choose what makes you happy. >> my friends, my. >> family, my work. >> make me happy. this jeep makes me happy. even though my name. >> is paul. >> your business needs to hire. >> someone now. so in addition to managing your business, you have to go through hundreds of resumes and hope for the best. or you can go and get. >> the best. >> introducing paychex recruiting copilot. >> it. >> uses ai to help find potential candidates from millions of profiles, whether they're looking for a job or not. then it helps you get in touch and get them hired five times faster than job postings. times faster than job postings. get your own paychex recruiting but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer my body. i take because the research is being shared all over the world.

qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support qanon. it has superior absorption co for all those making it big out there... ...shouldn't your mobile service be able to keep up with you? get wifi speeds up to a gig at home and on the go. introducing powerboost, only from xfinity mobile. now that's big.

xfinity internet customers, cut your mobile bill in half vs. t-mobile, verizon, and at&t for your first year. plus, ask how to get the new samsung galaxy s25+ on us. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> while we're on the subject of elon musk, is there anyone in america who is comfortable with him and his gang of 20 year olds using their own computer servers to poke through your tax returns, your health information, and your bank accounts? no oversight, no protections against cyber attack, no guardrails on what they do with your private data.

we need a more efficient government. you want to cut waste? i'll help you do it. but change doesn't need to be chaotic or make us less safe. >> that was democratic senator elissa slotkin slamming elon musk's doge team. that team, of course, is drastically reshaping the federal government in a completely haphazard manner, which she says is putting the safety of all americans at risk in the process. joining our coverage, democratic congressman dan goldman of new york, he's a member of the house judiciary committee. we have so many things to ask you about. first, your thoughts on on senator slotkin's points there about elon musk. are you hearing some of that from your constituents? >> well, absolutely. >> she's spot on as usual. the reality is. >> that elon musk does not. >> himself know what. >> they are cutting. so how in the world does donald trump know? does the white house know or do? house republicans, senate republicans know. nobody knows. when you look at the top. 12

line items in this. so-called wall of receipts, ten of them proved to be false, incorrect, or completely misleading. so he's not cutting waste, fraud and abuse. he's just cutting whatever he wants. probably based on keyword searches that he does through his algorithm. what he's not cutting, of course, is his own $13 billion of government contracts. there's certainly no waste, fraud and abuse there, according to elon musk. and he's jeopardizing the security of our national security, as well as personal identification information. and i think senator slotkin is exactly right. come, let's let's talk about waste, fraud and abuse. if you can use technology and identify it, and we can look into it to determine whether or not it is wasteful, is fraudulent, abused, or we can make things more efficient. we want to do that. but that's not what elon musk is doing. it's just a massive corruption scheme. >> when you see the cuts across the government, especially in the department of justice, where

where you served. they all seem to fall into three buckets political retribution. straight up firing all the prosecutors involved and prosecuting the january 6th cases. political pressure, where prosecutors like danielle sassoon butted up against the beauvais because there was no factual predicate for dismissing the case against new york's mayor, eric adams. and then these these this indiscriminate slashing and burning, basically gutting usaid. and they've targeted or have designs on doing the same for the department of education. what is the political practice that democrats will turn to push back against all three? >> well, we have. >> to. >> take different mechanisms for different issues, because i do think you're right at the doj, at the fbi, this is really donald trump's revenge and retribution against those organizations, those agencies of accountability that tried to hold him accountable for his criminal acts. and he is going

to go get back at them as it relates to other things. usaid, you mentioned. but, i mean, think about social security administration, where there are proposed 50% cuts. you think about hud, where they're talking about getting rid of every local and regional office. you hear about the veterans and cutting 80,000 people from the veterans administration. these cuts are not just to cut waste, fraud and abuse. and they won't just reduce the employee base. they are going to affect the services that every american who receives benefits from each of those agencies. and there are hundreds of millions that they receive. and so this is not an effort to actually weed out anything. this is an effort to essentially cut as much as possible from working americans, from middle class americans, in order to make room for tax. cuts for elon musk,

donald trump and other billionaires. it's very simple. that's what they're going to do. and as soon asmericans start to feel it, then i think you'll see even more of a outrage and uprising. but it's enough just to know that the republicans budget that was passed in the house cannot be enforced and met without cutting hundreds of billions of dollars from medicaid. that's the math. so they can say whatever they want to say. donald trump can gaslight all he wants, as he did last night. blatant lies and misleading information. but the reality is about to hit americans. >> and it feels like that isn't lost on on the american people. and the second trump presidency seems so distinct from the first in the indifference to the suffering of all americans. i was i was talking to michael in the last conversation about trump's at least pretend efforts to buffer his own, who he perceived to be his people or his voters from his policies and

practices in the second trump presidency. his policies almost indiscriminately target the kinds of people he pretended to speak directly to throughout his entire political ascent. why do you think that is? >> because he's not running again. he lied to the american people. he promised the american people that he was going to help middle class americans. he was going to lower the price of eggs. he was going to lower costs. since he came in six weeks ago, all he has done is hiked costs. eggs are up 15%. inflation is up. gas is up. and now he's putting tariffs on our allies our close trading partners, which is going to increase prices even more. prescription drug prices. he undid all of the benefits that president biden and the democrats implemented to lower prescription drug prices. he is now cutting disdainfully and cruelly. to your point, federal employees all over the place who

are hard working patriots that are doing the essential work to provide essential services to americans. he lied on the campaign, pure and simple. and what he is doing now is pure corruption and revenge. those are the two things that he is focused on. it's a get rich quick and get out of jail free presidency. >> i can't have you here and not ask you about the story that i think most of our viewers came to know you from, and that is trump's animosity for ukrainian president zelensky. you tweeted this quote, trump will not give military assistance passed by congress to zelensky until zelensky agrees to trump's demands for $500 billion in back payments to trump in return for nothing. sound familiar? quote i want you to do us a favor, though. just just take me through your analysis. legal and geopolitical, of what it means that trump is halting all intelligence sharing between the

united states and ukraine at obviously a vital juncture in the war, and that trump is talking only with vladimir putin about ending the war in ukraine, at least until the oval office meeting that they seem to sabotage on purpose. >> you know, nicole, what we've learned about donald trump is that you cannot pay attention to what he says. you must pay attention to what he's doing. so he will say whatever he wants to try to reach peace. as he says, all he wants to do is reach peace. but when you look at what he's actually doing, he is strong arming volodymyr zelensky again to agree to a lopsided deal that will give part of ukraine to russia. and in order to coerce him and extort him to do that, what is he doing? he's stopping intelligence sharing, which has been absolutely essential to defending ukraine in this war. and he's stopping

all offensive cyber attacks and cyber security against russia. those two actions together are behind the scenes. no americans can see what he's talking about, but they have a dramatic impact, and they significantly affect the dynamic between a dictator, vladimir putin, and a democracy in president zelensky. and it's very similar to what he did in 2019, when he withheld essential military assistance from ukraine until president zelensky announced an investigation that might have hurt joe biden. it's the same extortion where he is taking vladimir putin's side. he is parroting russian propaganda and it is at the expense of president zelensky and ukraine, and it's going to have long term impacts because china is watching. and if we yield to russia a dictatorship, you can bet that vladimir putin is going to move forward and china will move into taiwan very soon.

>> why do you think he's capitulating so completely, so quickly and so publicly to putin? >> that's the $64,000 question, nicole. and you look at the last nine years and starting, frankly, when putin and russia interfered in the 2016 election to help donald trump. and ever since then, he has taken vladimir putin's side, including over our own intelligence community in 2018. he has been sucking up and bending the knee to vladimir putin in ways that do not make any sense from anyone a president of the united states or whatever your foreign policy is. and when you look at how aggressive he is with israel in the middle east, in supporting them and going after israel, our democratic allies, enemies, and then you look at how much he's placating our democratic allies enemy in russia. something doesn't add

up. and i don't know what it is, but it just does not make any sense. there has to be something there. i don't think it's just repayment for the 2016 election, but we don't know yet. >> congressman, thank you for your time on all these issues today. it's great to see you. >> you too. thank you. >> when we come back, the united states supreme court rejecting donald trump and his slash and burn agenda. we'll tell you what a majority of supreme court justices ruled today to force donald trump to follow the law. that story is next. >> inflation and economic uncertainty have affected all of us. but if you have a structured settlement or annuity, jg wentworth can help you get a lump sum of cash now in exchange for some or all of your future payments. jg wentworth has helped individuals get over $290 million in the past year alone. so why live month to month in these uncertain economic times? call jg wentworth today at 877

call jg wentworth today at 877 cash now and get the cash you hate and extremism in the united states are on the rise. in fact, there are more than 1400 hate groups in our country today. groups that vilify others for their race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity. and extremist groups that spread dangerous conspiracies and encourage violent acts. this is a dark chapter in our history, but it can be rewritten. since 1971, the southern poverty law center has been fighting has been fighting hate and defending justice and equality in the u.s. but we can't do it without support from people like you. please call now or go online to helpfighthate.org to become a friend of the center. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, you can support the fight for justice. in recent years, hate crimes against black, jewish and lgbtq americans have nearly doubled across the us. this violence has no place in a just society.

hate and extremism are dividing us like never before, but together we can protect our communities and continue providing no cost legal help to those impacted by hate violence. so please call or go to helpfighthate.org and give just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive the special fight hate t-shirt to show your standing up for civil rights. the fate of our country is in our hands. we can and will build a more just future. but it won't come without a fight. that's why we need your support today. southern poverty law center staff are in the courts defending freedom and in the halls of power, advocating for change and working hard to prevent recruitment into extremist groups throughout the united states. together, we can push back against this wave of hate and extremism. become a friend of the center today. call or go online to helpfighthate.org

right now.

pills. connect with the medical provider at. >> today, the united states supreme court did something rather remarkable. at least it seems remarkable to us. in the year 2025, it said no to donald trump. in a54 decision, the supreme court justices rejected an emergency application filed by donald trump's department of justice and held up the power of a federal judge who had ordered the administration to pay $2 billion to usaid contractors for work already completed. mere hours after that ruling, the federal judge in question ordered the administration to file a status report by 11 a.m. tomorrow on how it plans to comply on the supreme court's decision from our own deadline. legal blog. this reporting, quote, the divided high court action marks a significant early victory for judicial power over the new administration in the

frenzied emergency litigation that has dominated trump's second term. but lower court litigation will continue in this case. that could come back to the justices as they grapple with how to respond to trump's attempts to bolster presidential power across several cases at the high court could weigh in on soon. joining our conversation is former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department. now, lucky for us and msnbc legal analyst mary mccord is here. plus former top official at the department of justice. msnbc legal analyst andrew weissman is back. they are the co-hosts of the msnbc podcast main justice. so happy to see both of you. andrew weissman, to you. first on today's ruling. >> well, i'm going. >> to pour. >> a little. >> bit. >> of cold. >> water on this because. >> i feel like we're all. a little bit like stockholm syndrome in that, yes, it. >> is good news. >> it's a54 decision, and it upheld what the district. >> court was doing. but when. >> you look at what actually

happened. >> one. >> there are. >> four justices. >> who. >> actually were in. >> dissent who i don't. >> even understand. >> their dissent. >> and what. >> their argument. >> is or. >> even why they had. >> jurisdiction to. >> hear this case. so that's. >> for all they. >> needed. >> was one more. >> and this is a very limited ruling, as you note, it's going to eventually make its. way back. if it's not in this case. >> it's there are a. >> whole slew of cases. >> having to. deal with this issue. >> of the. power of. >> the president. >> and finally. >> i just to focus. on the dissent. >> for a. >> moment. >> where there are four. >> justices. >> they frame. >> this in. >> a almost a. >> fox news way, pretending that this is just a district court who is out of control, who is ordering the president to do something that she thinks is a good or he thinks is a good. >> idea. >> when in. >> fact, all this. >> is about is congressionally mandated funds for usaid. and

the issue is whether. >> the. >> executive had sort of. >> followed all. >> of the right procedures. so, yes, it's good news. >> but. >> i mean. >> it's a really. slim good news. >> at issue here. >> i'm so happy to pass the cold water bottle to someone else to pour all over the shards of hope that we try to find out of, out of our country's politics. let me let me do this for our viewers, mary. let me let me just tell folks how the justices decided this today. so chief justice john roberts and justice amy coney barrett joined the three democratic appointees in the majority, while republican appointed justices samuel alito, clarence thomas, neil gorsuch and brett kavanaugh dissented from alito's dissent. what does this single district court judg, who likely lacks jurisdiction, have the unchecked power to compel the government of the united states to pay out and probably lose forever, 2 billion taxpayer dollars? question mark. the answer to that question

should be an emphatic no, but a majority of this court apparently thinks otherwise. i am stunned. it is not the common tone and tenor of opinions. but as andrew pointed out, here we are. it's also very. different than justice alito's position back a few years. >> ago in the. >> united states versus texas. >> case, where. >> he dissented. >> from the supreme. >> court's refusal. >> to essentially. uphold and. >> uphold the decision of a. single district. >> court. judge in texas with respect to immigration. >> a statute. >> texas texas. >> had passed that. >> really would have encroached. >> on the. >> federal government's. >> immigration enforcement. >> in. >> that case. >> and i just want to read. you this. this was another case where the texas was challenging. >> executive authority, right? >> the president's. >> authority and the face.

>> of. >> congressional action. >> this is what we have here to write. >> congress appropriated. funds for. these this. foreign aid. >> these were. >> obligations that were already. >> for work completed. >> we're not. >> even talking about. future work. we're talking on that $2 billion just about the government paying its bills. here's what justice. >> alito said. >> nothing in our precedents. even remotely supports. this grossly. inflated conception of. executive power. >> which seriously. >> infringes the. >> legislative powers. >> that the. >> constitution grants to congress. >> so. >> i mean, flip flop, anyone? this is just where, you know, it's there's not. >> any way. >> to find a through line between. >> today's dissenting. >> opinion by justice alito and what he said a few. >> few years. >> ago. >> and we have to sneak in a break. but what's what's interesting to sort of drill down on is. is the open question about that? right. with everything that we know and

everything that's been publicly reported, and with the really aggressive assault that elon musk seems to be leading against, federal judges that defy the trump agenda, it just feels like a space to watch. i'm going to sneak in a break. all three of us will be right back. >> all of this. >> can be overwhelming. >> but it is important. >> to. >> remember there are still. >> checks and balances. there's a. >> lot being thrown. >> at the american people right now, and. >> it is really important. >> to pay. >> attention to it. >> but it is. >> just as important to. >> recognize how many of those things are. >> getting announced. >> but they're not happening. >> at all. or at. >> least not yet. >> just try. >> to remember we are. >> not looking at the final score. we are still in the first score. we are still in the first quarter. the way i approach work post fatherhood, has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices.

connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. [♪♪] do you own a dishwasher, but only use it for storage or as a drying rack? get better results than hand washing, with your dishwasher and cascade complete. your dishwasher does the work for you, with temperatures up to 140 degrees - too hot for hands. some dishwashers even have a sanitizing cycle. load pots, pans and tableware at the bottom, with plastic and glassware on top. cascade complete removes visible and invisible residue, for virtually spot-free and shiny dishes. switch to your dishwasher, and cascade complete. have you always had trouble with your weight? me too. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk.

wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity. don't use wegovy® with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines or in children under 12. don't take if you or your family had mtc, men 2, or if allergic to it. tell your provider if you plan to have surgery or a procedure, are breastfeeding, pregnant, or plan to be. stop taking and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or any of these allergic reactions. serious side effects may include pancreas inflammation and gallbladder or severe stomach problems. call your prescriber if you have any of these symptoms. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. call your prescriber about vision changes, if you feel your heart racing while at rest, or if you have mental changes. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. common side effects include: nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, stomach pain, flu, or upset, headache, feeling tired, dizzy, or bloated, gas, and heartburn. some side effects lead to dehydration,

which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®,... —i'm losing weight,— —i'm keeping it off,— —and i'm lowering my cv risk. ask your prescriber about wegovy®. your shipping manager left to "find themself." leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. sponsored jobs on indeed are two and a half times faster to first hire. visit indeed.com/hire speaker: my little miracle is beckett. [christina perri, "a thousand years"] i have died every day waiting for you. we wouldn't be where we are without saint jude. and in turn, we wouldn't be where we are without those people that have donated. back with mary. and andrew andrews is here on my sort of cold water wavelength. what should we be prepared for? with the cases still working their way through the system? >> well, the presidential.

>> immunity decision. >> which was decided with respect. >> to whether. >> the president has criminal liability, is one that what people should focus on is how that's going. >> to be applied by. >> this supreme court going forward. there are. >> lots of questions. >> about what is the. scope of the. >> executive power. >> that case talked about the sort of exclusive and exclusive. power of the executive and seem to really take a new, new way forward for this supreme court. it rejected the sort of youngstown to be super nerdy view of justice jackson about being careful with executive power, because he had learned that through his time being the lead. >> prosecutor in the nuremberg trials. >> and it really talked about the sort of need for sort of a really vibrant, vigorous executive. >> and that's where i. >> think everyone should keep their eyes on justices amy coney

barrett and the chief justice, who today, as you noted, sided with the three liberal justices. notably, that's the same configuration, those five who let the. manhattan judge go forward with sentencing donald trump again. it was five four. so that's what i'd keep my eye on, is whether that constellation will stay together or whether they will. you'll have a. >> split and they'll. >> go forward with sort of this really different view of the power of the executive, which is so dangerous when you have a president like donald trump. >> mary, let me share with you some reporting that reuters published this afternoon. quote, judges face rise in threats as elon musk blasts them over rulings. quote, u.s. marshals have warned federal judges of unusually high threat levels as tech billionaire elon musk and other trump administration allies ramp up efforts to discredit judges who stand in the way of white house efforts to slash federal jobs and

programs. that's according to several judges with knowledge of the warnings. reuters interviews with 11 federal judges in multiple districts revealed mounting alarm over their physical security and, in some cases, a rise in violent threats in recent weeks. how do we how do we as a federal government protect federal judges from, as reuters is reporting, threats that are, quote, unusually high as tech billionaire elon musk and other trump administration allies ramp up efforts to discredit them. when the when the sort of attacks are coming from within the government that we need to protect them. right. >> i mean. >> this. >> is not unlike what happened to judges, prosecutors, witnesses, jurors. in the trials involving donald trump over. the last several years, civil trials and criminal proceedings. >> of course. >> none of the criminal.

>> cases got. >> to got to trial. >> but. >> it would be the type of disinformation and disparagement of those people through social media by both donald trump and his allies. and that would lead to real world threats. >> we know that. >> in. those cases, that physical security had to be provided and paid for to the tune of, you know, many. millions of dollars to protect these federal judges and even state judges and federal prosecutors to protect witnesses. there were. >> court orders. >> restraining certain types of speech by donald trump related to the witnesses and jurors in these cases. and now we're in even more difficult situation because he actually is the president. and, you know, federal judges, federal employees, like all federal employees, they deserve our respect. they deserve to be safe. they do not deserve to be threatened. and to the extent

that the argument would be, as mr. trump's attorneys made the argument back when this was happening, in cases where he had been disparaging and criticizing judges and witnesses, etc, the argument that it's not him doing it, it's other people doing it that just doesn't hold. we know exactly how this works, and we have talked about this before. nicole. it's that call and response. the president puts something out on social media. now we've got elon musk, who owns one of the biggest social media platforms. they put out these kind of disparaging comments, and people react almost immediately with threats, with intimidation, sometimes with actual physical attempts at physical violence. and this is something that needs to be condemned across the board at every level of government and civil society, because it's just not acceptable. it's also not acceptable to be talking about impeachment of judges based on

decisions that you don't like. >> mary mccord and andrew weissmann, thank you both so much for spending time with us today on all of this. you can catch mary and andrew on a brand new episode of our msnbc podcast, maine justice, wherever you get your podcasts. for more on the legal stories we all cover around here on deadline, sign up for our deadline legal newsletter. just scan that qr code on your screen right now, and you'll get a newsletter delivered to your inbox every friday. another break for us. we'll be right back. >> what drives. >> your business? numbers. data? sales? sure. but it's your people who define your business. >> that's why paychex. >> just reinvented the way to find. >> and keep the best people. >> smart, streamlined hr technology assisted by ai in our team of experts. everything you need to recruit, motivate and support your employees. because your people are your business. start reinventing your business

at paychex. >> hi, i'm jay jackson. for almost 20 years, abacus life has been purchasing life insurance policies for seniors. and in just seconds, you can use the free calculator@abacus.com to learn what your policy might be worth. >> for many of my clients. >> selling their life insurance. >> to abacus was right. >> for them and their. estate plan. >> don't sell or slash your policy without going to abacus.com first. there are no fees and no obligations. get the fees and no obligations. get the real value when the time comes to act. are you all in for the things that really matter? i am all in for racial justice. i'm all in for voting rights. i'm all in for women's rights. i'm all in for civil rights. the time is now to stand up for a future you believe in. to be all in for the rights of black communities across the u.s.. to keep advancing the future we envision for the america we love. you can do it now by supporting the naacp®.

call or go online now to become a champion for change. your donation of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, will help naacp® keep advancing in the fight for equity and justice. your support will help ensure that all students can learn. businesses can thrive, communities can advance, and everyone can vote. and together, we'll create a tomorrow in which all people can thrive. the naacp® is on the front line in the fight for equality. but we need your support now to keep advancing the cause of racial justice in america, because we won't go back. so please join us. call or go to keepadvancing.org and give just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special i'm all in t-shirt to show you're helping advance the rights of black americans. i'm all in for a great education.

i'm all in for health equity. i'm all in to lead the fight for equality. we're all in for the naacp®. this is the moment to use your power for good. so please become an naacp® champion for change today. call or go online to keepadvancing.org right now. enough. >> magnesium, which is vital for bone, nerve, and muscle health. i recommend qanon magnesium glycinate. it's formulated for high absorption and is gentle on the stomach. qanon the brand i trust. >> for plant. >> based healthy blood. >> pressure support. >> there's one brand at. >> walmart that. >> stands above the rest. it's super beats. >> discover why more cardiologists recommend. >> super beats for heart health support. >> than any.

>> other beats brand. >> at. >> super. >> beats comm. >> some sad news to report congressman sylvester turner has died. his office confirmed in a statement today. turner had been sworn in just two months ago, but he was a longtime figure in texas politics. he was formerly the mayor of houston. he also served in the texas legislature for more than two decades. he won the seat left open after the death of representative sheila jackson sheila jackson lee over the summer. his cause of death has not been confirmed. congressman turner was just 70 years old. our thoughts are with the turner family and all of his constituents back in texas. another break for us. we'll be right back. >> so i can take the steak home. yep. and as many butterfly shrimp as i want. >> you can take. >> home everything. >> ice cream machine. everything. dessert bar. everything. fork. everything. that guy's had everything. careful. careful. >> you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean, not spreadsheets. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do.

when you sponsor a job on indeed, candidates can find it easier. so you can hire easier. visit indeed.com/hire (man) got one more antoine. (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪ (man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. [restaurant noise] allison. [swooshing sound] introducing allison's plaque psoriasis. ♪♪ she thinks her flaky, gray patches are all people see. ♪♪ otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. over here! otezla can help you get clearer skin

and reduce itching and flaking. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing or swallowing, swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms. severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting; depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss can happen. tell your doctor if any of these occur and if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts. with clearer skin, girls' day out is a good day out. live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. dave's been very excited about saving big with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. five years? -five years. and he's not alone. -high five.

it's five years of reliable gig speed internet. five years of advanced securit. five years of a great rate that won't change. it's back. but only for a limited time. high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. >> it's call 877 cash. >> now to get a $100 gift card for a free quote. >> thank you so much for letting us into your homes again today. we are grateful to be with ari. melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. thank you very much. and welcome to the beat, everyone. >> i am. >> ari melber, and our headline tonight really actually cancels out some of what the