would be a profound impact on the federal agencies, department staffing, on its budgets, on its operations as well. and of course, we know, jose, that she acknowledged during her confirmation hearing that it would take some action from congress to eliminate this agency. but she also talked about the fact that she didn't want to necessarily eliminate some programs, that the department of education manages, things like student loans, for example. we've reported there's a there's a there would be an indicator, there would be an effort to perhaps move that under the department of treasury. you look at programs that deal with students with disabilities. perhaps the department of health and human services might be better equipped to manage those things. and so this seems to be the direction that the department of education will take over the next several months, as this agency of about 4000 employees, the smallest cabinet level agency, looks at perhaps closing down as much as possible. jose. >> julie, any reaction from capitol hill? >> well, house speaker mike johnson. jose. today, this this

morning in the capitol, rather said that he would welcome this news. he made it very clear that he did not see any kind of draft of this potential executive order. but he and other republicans, other conservatives here have supported the president's efforts, have supported his statements, and also have supported linda mcmahon herself when she testified before the senate committee, which has jurisdiction over the education department. certainly, republicans i'm talking to jose, are not specifically aware, not keenly aware of the details of this, which i think is another interesting story to follow in terms of the communication between the white house to republicans of relevant jurisdiction over some of these agencies, specifically in the cuts that they're making as well. typically, of course, congress has a role to play in these actions. republicans control the house and the senate. they would need 60 votes for a move like this, which means they would need democrats for any move like this. but of course, as the president has demonstrated already in his first six weeks in office, he is able to make a lot of these

moves, at least around the edges, unilaterally. it's a big question mark if and when this will actually happen in terms of an executive order, but certainly to something republicans at least publicly support privately, especially republicans hailing from red rural states that depend on federal dollars in their education systems. that's another question, and we'll certainly be asking it. >> and, julie, i mean, all of this after elon musk met with senate republicans for nearly two hours yesterday, what came out of those meetings? >> yeah, he met with senate republicans during the afternoon when they presented him with a creative new legislative solution that would essentially codify some of those cuts that doge is making. we're told by one senator in the room that he did his happy dance that pumped his fist in the air, because he just didn't know it was possible to do something like that. with 51 votes, not requiring, again, that 60 vote threshold. we'll see if that happens. meanwhile, we also staked him out at night when he met with house republicans. there was a lot of concern, especially stemming from those town halls where republicans were getting pushback from conservative constituents, many of whom supported president trump, were

pushing back on the role that elon musk is playing, pushing back on those cuts. interestingly, i spoke to one republican who came out of that meeting last night and said that he raised concerns specifically when it comes to cuts to the veterans affairs department. when it comes to farmers. we'll see what comes out of that. musk himself, though, taking a few questions from us in the hallways. listen here. >> mr. musk. what was your message in there to house republicans? what was your message in there? >> you know, there's a lot of room, a lot of opportunity to improve expenditures in the government. and we're making good progress. >> what kind. >> of ai are you using? >> we're right now we're not using much. i honestly. >> elissa slotkin, she called you out by name. >> so you can see all of us there trying to throw questions to him. i asked him about ai because a couple of weeks ago, we reported that musk was using artificial intelligence, using specifically a large language model that would input all of those answers. remember that federal workers were required to

give, at least in some agencies, to prove whether they were mission critical or not for the government. musk they're telling us that right now they aren't using much ai, but we'll see if that changes. >> aaron gilchrist and julie sirkin, thank you both so very much. and joining us now with more on this is former education secretary john king jr, who served in the obama administration. he is now the chancellor of the state university of new york, which receives federal funding. john, i can't thank you enough for being with us this morning, really appreciative. you were secretary of education. what does the department mean for public schools around our country? >> well, look, the history of the department is about civil rights and ensuring that all students have access to educational opportunity. when you think about the department, you think about the title one program that sends more than $18 billion to schools serving low income students, you think about the individuals with disabilities education act, which allows the department to send about $14 billion to

schools to provide services to students with disabilities. you think about the pell grant program, which provides assistance to low income students to pursue higher education, to pursue their american dream. that's what's at stake. if we were to see a dismantling of the department, you fear for those programs and the crucial role they play in students lives. >> yeah. and i'm just wondering, john, previous to president carter, this department didn't exist. and, you know, aaron was telling us how small as far as workforce it is vis a vis all the other departments. and certainly as a cabinet member there, where do you think this money, this important money that goes to, as you were saying, the pell grants and the 14 billion that goes to, you know, children with disabilities and the title one, would all of those necessarily be eliminated if the department, the bureaucracy was

eliminated? >> you know, it's hard to know from what the administration has said so far. ultimately, the department's other functions, civil rights enforcement that is investigating a school when they don't serve their african american students or they don't serve their english learners or they don't serve their students with disabilities, well, that's a crucial function. where will that go? the department also is the place for leadership around a national imperative. and that's maybe the thing that's most frightening and disturbing here. we should be focused as a country on how we improve outcomes. how do we help more k 12 students succeed in math and reading and graduate from high school ready for college and careers. how do we help more americans get college degrees, whether it's associate's or bachelor's or career credentials that prepare them for the jobs of the 21st century? that's where the education department could be leading. but instead, we have this distracting

conversation about dismantling the department. >> you know, i was just thinking, john, i mean, so much was lost during the pandemic and so much was affected, especially in among our children, you know, and how they had to deal with going to school and learning during the pandemic, something that i think we're all feeling as a country and around the world. still the effects of that. i'm just wondering, john, what is the role of the federal government in helping to heal some of the injuries that are our school age kids suffered? >> you're so right. look, our performance in reading and math is still below where it was before covid. we have not made up for the impact of covid. we should have a secretary of

education traveling around the country talking about what's working to help students catch up. how is intensive tutoring, helping students get where they need to be in math? what programs are in place to address chronic absenteeism where students are frequently missing so much school? there should be research coming out of the department about interventions that work and where the gaps still are. and again, instead of that, leadership from the department, we're having this conversation about dismantling the department and reducing our commitment to education. >> and john, i'm just thinking of, you know, over the years, the different programs and policies instituted through the department of education. i'm thinking of race to the top, no child left behind. i'm just wondering, john, do you think that there are things that the education department could have or should have handled in a more efficient and effective way?

>> of course. look, there's always ways that government could work more effectively. there's always opportunities to streamline and improve efficiency. but this is acting with a meat cleaver rather than acting surgically. this is diminishing the contributions of generations of committed public servants. so many of the people who work in the department are former teachers and principals who care deeply about kids and want to help support states and districts in serving their students well. this is throwing all of that out under a banner of efficiency that is truly deceptive. i we ultimately need the department to be talking about how do we help more kids learn to read? well, and we haven't heard anything about that so far from this administration. >> yeah. and, you know, the expenditures that the united states has carried out for

education, local, state and federal, and yet we still have such a disparity. and so many of our children that simply are not receiving the education that they need to require, so they can continue to contribute to our country. former education secretary john king jr, i thank you very much for being with us today. >> thanks for the opportunity. >> up next, breaking news from capitol hill. the house of representatives has just voted to censure democrat al green. plus, the market's reacting again amid some confusion over president trump's tariffs. pretty much steady at a, you know, -68 or so. that's what the dow jones is showing at this hour. and nbc news exclusive why some u.s. allies are considering scaling back how much intelligence they share with washington. we're back in 90s. you're watching jose diaz-balart reports on msnbc.

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♪♪ ♪ your own personal jesus ♪ ♪♪ ♪ someone to hear your prayers, ♪ ♪ someone who's there. ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ reach out and touch faith ♪ >> 14 past the hour. we turn now to breaking news from capitol hill, where the house has voted to censure democratic congressman al green from texas. it comes after he disrupted president trump's joint address to congress on tuesday night, before he was escorted out of the chamber. joining us now, nbc's ryan nobles. ryan, good morning. so walk us through, if you would. what happened this morning? yeah. jose. so this. >> was a censure vote that was

presented by house republicans who were upset with the way that al green handled himself at that joint address on tuesday. and they initially tried to push it through as a unanimous resolution and democrats blocked that. so that's what led to the motion today. and what we saw was that that it passed relatively easily with every republican voting for it, and then even ten democrats voting for it as well. and a couple of democrats, including al green himself, voting present. green, though, seemed to take this in stride. he seemed to understand that this punishment was coming, especially given how vocal he was on the floor of the house during the joint address, and he actually went up to the front of the chamber and started singing we shall overcome with other members of the house joining him who were supportive of his disruption, and that actually happened while the speaker was declaring the censure resolution passed, and it required the

speaker to call for the house to come to order. you know, jose, there's been a lot of fallout from the way the democrats handled the state of the union, i should say the joint address. they weren't exactly sure how to respond to donald trump. and you saw an uneven response in the chamber. most democrats sat quietly throughout the entire speech, never standing up, rarely clapping. throughout the course of the speech, others held up protest signs responding to some of the things that trump said in real time. others stood up and just walked out in the middle of this event. and there have been some democrats that have said that they had wished that some of their colleagues had handled the situation a little bit differently, respect the office of the presidency. a utilized a little bit more decorum inside this building. but i think more than anything, jose, what it demonstrates is how desperate democrats are to show just how opposed they are to the early decisions made by the trump administration and the

plans that trump has going forward, and that they didn't want to show in any capacity, any type of support for donald trump and his administration and his agenda going into these next four years. so this is certainly controversial within the democratic party as they try and figure out the best way to respond to donald trump and his administration's moves on just about every single day, especially given the fact, jose, that they have no power. they are in the minority in both the house and the senate and, of course, do not control the white house. >> and so, ryan, what exactly is a censure vote and what are the repercussions of it? >> it is, in many ways just a slap on the wrist. jose doesn't it's not accompanied with any sort of fine. it doesn't limit any of the power that al green has as a member of congress. it's more than anything, just an embarrassing mark on a congressional record to show that you have been censured by your colleagues. now, my guess

is, and given the way that green responded to the censure vote today, voting present himself and then going up and singing in the well of the chamber is that he will take this as a badge of honor. he wanted to draw attention to his opposition to donald trump in as public a way as possible. and in many ways, the censure vote represents another level of drawing attention to his displeasure with the donald trump vote. i mean, al green is a unique individual in the house of representatives. he beats to his own drum. he's not going to be told by leadership to do or not to do something. and i think this is an example of that today. jose. >> ryan nobles on capitol hill for us. thank you so very much, ryan. it's great. joining us now with more is democratic congressman ami bera from california. he actually voted in support of the censure. and congressman, it is a pleasure to see you. i thank you for your time. you decided to vote this, to vote support for this censure. why? i did. al green's a friend. i respect al green. our caucus cannot.

>> be a distraction. i wish you guys were asking me about 70,000 va workers getting laid off. i wish you guys were asking me about closing the department of education. that's what we should be talking about. we've got to keep the focus not on our caucus, but on what donald trump is actually doing. >> what was the reason and what was the basis of your support for censure? like. >> we have a clear strategy on how to defeat donald trump. that is to make sure the american public understands what donald trump is doing, how it is going to hurt their lives, how it is going to be inflationary, how it is not helping them. when we act as individuals, that draws attention away. that is exactly what donald trump wanted to do. let's act as a team. let's win the elections in 2026. let's make sure the american public knows the actions that he's taking and how it's hurting american families. >> so you said that you're a friend of representative green. have you talked to him? have you spoken with him? have you gotten

an idea from him as to why he thinks that what he did was actually the correct action? >> i mean, i've not been able to speak to him since he took the action. again, i agree with drawing attention to the fact that republicans want to dismantle medicaid, take billions of dollars out of medicaid to give tax cuts to the rich, to give tax cuts to corporations. but there's a better way to do this. there's a better way to draw attention to that. and that's not drawing attention to ourselves. that's making sure the public is focused on donald trump and his actions. >> you know, congressman, i keep thinking, is there do you think a need to differentiate the conversations and the decorum that should exist at the well of the house of representatives, because i'm just wondering, i mean, is it just that everything goes and i think that by your vote today, maybe there should

be some respect for decorum going forward so that what happens this week in, in the serbian parliament or what happens in other countries around the world, isn't that something that. well, it progressed into that. >> decorum always matters. civility always matters. how we speak to one another always matters. i don't appreciate what marjorie taylor greene does, how she yells out at times. if i had been in congress when joe wilson yelled, you lie to president obama, i would have voted to censure him as well. the american public needs to see their highest elected officials act in a civilized manner, and we're going to disagree on policy. we're going to debate vigorously, and we've got to win at the election. >> and, congressman, do me a favor. let's continue our conversation going forward, because it is true that you do have issues that you need to get out. and i look forward to having those conversations with you in the very near future.

great. >> thank you for having me on. >> be well. thank you sir. up next, president trump is expected to have a conversation today with the president of mexico, claudia sheinbaum, over the new tariffs. plus cia officers now the latest government employees to be fired. what we're learning. fired. what we're learning. you're watching jose diaz-balar honestly, i was scared when i was told age related macular degeneration could jeopardize my vision. great. one more thing to worry about. it was all too hard to deal with in the beginning, but making a plan with my doctor to add precision was easy. preservision areds2 contains the exact nei recommended, clinically proven nutrient formula to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. thanks to preservision, i feel better that i'm doing something about it like millions of others. preservision. ♪♪ well would you look at that? jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks,

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forty's going to be my year. >> connect with. >> a medical provider at ronco sparks. >> we're going. >> to start with breaking news on capitol hill. >> mounting questions over the future of tiktok in the u.s. >> reporting from philadelphia. >> el. >> paso and. >> the palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> 27 past the hour. now to the growing fallout from president

trump's trade war with america's top trading partners, as the president is set to speak with mexican president claudia sheinbaum today about those tariffs, the mexican leader has said she'll announce her country's response on sunday. now, just yesterday, the trump administration granted american auto workers a temporary reprieve from tariffs on vehicles and auto parts coming in from mexico and canada. all of this, as moody's estimates, the tariffs will cost the average american household 12 to $1300 more a year for the goods they're buying now. shoppers clearly worried about what this could all mean. >> it definitely costs a lot to get groceries and stuff right now, so i hope that it doesn't go up too much. >> i'm just crossing my fingers, hoping things will, you know, will get it better. it will not be that quick, but soon it will happen. i mean, we don't. >> have a choice. >> if there's certain things that we need, especially food, we don't have a choice but to purchase, you know. so, i mean, what are you going to do?

>> with us now, sabrina rodriguez, national politics reporter for the washington post. lance trover, a republican strategist, former spokesman for doug burgum's presidential campaign and nbc news business and data correspondent brian chung. so, brian, what does this temporary reprieve mean, specifically when they focused on the auto industry? >> yeah. and when it comes to the auto industry, the reason why we focus so much on that is because we bring in so many auto parts from mexico. we assemble the vehicles in some cases entirely in canada. and every time it crosses the border, well, it's going to get tariff, which means that the same truck that you might buy in scranton, pennsylvania, from an american automaker may have been tariff multiple times, which is the reason why there were some estimates that with certain vehicles, it could be as much as $12,000 more expensive as a result of the 25% tariffs, because it goes in and out every single time it gets tariff. so the automakers understandably wanted to have that dialog with the white house and manage to succeed in getting this exemption from the tariffs at least a day after it was put into effect. i think the question now, jose, is, does that get expanded? we've seen some suggestion. maybe the white

house is open to that. >> yeah. and that would be what essentially and the secretary of commerce was talking about that earlier today, although nothing is in writing yet. but that would be essentially a pause on all tariffs under the usmca. >> right. >> tell me a little bit. >> about that. and that's an important clarification, because it's not just the american automakers that benefit from that exemption. basically, any automotive import that comes into the us that is compliant with the usmca, which is that trade agreement, which, by the way, was negotiated by donald trump in the first administration in 2020. well, then it would no longer face that tariff. but it's not just automotive that are covered in that deal. it's a number of other industries as well. i want everyone to take a listen to what howard lutnick, the commerce secretary, said this morning with regards to maybe expanding those exemptions. >> it's not. >> likely to be just the automakers. i mean, the president is going to decide this today, but he's talking about it. but i think it's likely that it will cover all usmca compliant goods and services. so that which is part

of president trump's deal with canada and mexico are likely to get an exemption from these tariffs. >> and jose, i mean, that would really widely broaden the scope of the exemptions under these tariffs. and i do think it brings up the conversation over what are these tariffs really about. is it about fentanyl or is it about now enforcement of the usmca. but nonetheless we'll have to see what the announcement is later on this afternoon that he teased. and it seems like markets are coming back on the optimism that maybe these exemptions will be extended. >> yeah. sabrina, if you would talk to us a little bit about the you know, so there's usmca, which was carried out during the first trump administration. so nafta was gone. you know, i remember being when nafta was was instituted, the problems that most of the three countries found that they had. but now if these tariffs do stay in place, they would sabrina essentially be voiding the usmca. right. the

tariffs. >> yes. and i think one of the things that's not being talked enough about is this runs really counter to the spirit of what usmca was. i was a trade reporter during the first term of trump, of trump. and, you know, he spent so much time talking about what a nightmare nafta had been, how he was renegotiating usmca to be this deal that was going to be, in his words, the most fair, balanced trade agreement that the united states had ever signed. you know, it was overwhelmingly bipartisan support and the vote on capitol hill. and it was something he was so proud of at the end of his first term. so to see it now turn this way, where he's talking again about the trade deficit with mexico and canada, really raises a question about how effective actually was that renegotiation that took place over years during his first term? >> last you heard, some shoppers. we just showed worried about prices going up. the president said earlier this week that tariffs could cause a little disturbance. how could this backfire or could it on the president? >> i think. >> one of the important things

that donald trump does is he level sets with the american people. it's one of the reasons that voters like him, because he's straightforward and honest and level sets with them. and look, i don't know how you can put a price on the lives lost by the fentanyl epidemic. that's one of the main drivers as to why they're doing the tariffs. and i'd encourage everybody to listen to the daily, the new york times podcast from this morning, where they dive deep into the sinaloa cartel, where they the basically the conclusion from their reporting is that the election of donald trump and the tariffs alone have meant that the sinaloa cartel has stopped fentanyl production. these guys are on the run just in that region alone. so we learned a couple of things. one, the tariffs are having an intended effect to putting this fentanyl thing to rest. but we're also learning. and i think that's why this call with the mexican president is so interesting. today we're learning that mexico could and should have been doing more over the course of the last several years to get this fentanyl epidemic under control. so i think that begs a broader question is what more can mexico be doing? and if these tariffs are working to help get that under control, then i think

that's a good start. >> so lance, let's talk a little bit about that because i totally i am so glad that folks are focusing on the horrendous impact and influence of the cartels with the issue of fentanyl, with the issue of human exploitation and so many other things. and so last, i mean, so should the discussion not be then, for example, we're putting tariffs in because we don't want fentanyl and we want to establish metrics that will show that these governments of columbia, of mexico and canada are actually doing something that can be verified. it's just when you don't ask or talk about metrics, what are you talking about? >> well, it seems to me that the president has been very clear. i mean, just getting the border under control. number one, stopping the flow of, as you mentioned, human exploitation and stopping the flow of fentanyl. i mean, i to me,

that's it's built in there that there are some metrics in there that they're looking for. i don't know that you know, what those specifically are. if he's outlining those specifically to the president, i'm not privy to those private conversations. but me personally, as a citizen of this country and have been around the country and met families who have dealt with the fentanyl epidemic, who have lost family members and seen the devastation that it has wreaked on families across this country. i'm okay with it. and i think the voters of this country understand, because donald trump level sets with them that there could be a bump in the road. there is a lot of hair on fire, but we don't know that to be true. a lot of times they they predict these things. so i think they're going to give donald trump some leeway when it comes to getting the border under control and dealing with some of these issues. >> and, brian, i understand that the president has just put out a statement. >> yeah, we just got a truthsocial from the president talking about his conversations with president claudia sheinbaum of mexico. i'll just read a verbatim quote. i have agreed that mexico will not be required to pay tariffs on anything that falls under the usmca agreement.

this agreement is until april 2nd. i did this as an accommodation and out of respect for president sheinbaum, our relationship has been a very good one, and we are working hard together on the border, both in terms of stopping illegal aliens from entering the united states and likewise stopping fentanyl. thank you to president sheinbaum for your hard work and cooperation. so, jose, this speaks to kind of just the conversation that we were having about fentanyl as they relate to these tariffs. but i do want to point out that it does sound like this is still kind of a stay on these tariffs, because it sounds like april 2nd, we will again have this conversation. and again, that's the day that there are those reciprocal tariffs. >> and interesting. sorry to interrupt you brian. but interesting that on that post he mentions only mexico. >> only mexico. so when it comes to canada we haven't heard anything about that. again, there are the automotive tariffs that are in place. so presumably an automobile that comes in from canada is exempt at this moment. but we haven't heard anything from canada. we'll have to see if maybe there is some sort of announcement later on. obviously, there would have to be some sort of conversation with perhaps the prime minister

there. >> and claudia, the fact that the president says specifically a date gives a date on this, you know, pause of tariffs. sabrina i'm sorry. sabrina, of pause on tariffs for one month essentially leaves this in limbo. >> absolutely. i mean, i think right now for us importers, for companies, there is a lot of uncertainty, you know, even for the automakers right now. we saw white house press secretary caroline leavitt, you know, she was asked, well, is one month enough time for, you know, automakers to make changes to their supply chains? and certainly it's not. but what they're trying to send a message is they want to see automakers. they want to see us companies making things more in the united states. of course, that is not something that's going to happen in the next month. and in the meantime, i think there's just a lot of uncertainty around how long this can last. who is going to get exemptions, how long will those exemptions last? and in the case of canada, i think, you know, relations are deteriorating. clearly, as president trump refers to the prime minister as governor and

talks about wanting to annex canada. so there's all these other pieces to this that are further complicate the relationships between the three countries right now. >> yeah. i mean. lance, the president's truth social, he says, you know, all of this, we have a very good relationship with the president of mexico. we're working hard together. and it's interesting because president trump won first administration, had a very strong and good relationship with andrés manuel lopez obrador, the president at that time of mexico. now he is saying that he has a great relationship with the president of mexico, the current president. sheinbaum. it does. the fact that he doesn't mention canada, not include canada. >> well, it seems to me donald trump is always very forthcoming in what he wants. it's very pointed and he says what he wants to say. so to me, that does speak some volumes that they're not included in this. and look, i mean, if you're

working with donald trump and you're working to improve lives and get fentanyl stopped at the border, then he's going to work with you and he's going to be happy about it. so, you know, if there are issues coming out of canada, they're not working with us to try to get some of this stuff under control. then, yeah, i do read a little bit into that that he's not included. >> and brian, you know, this whole that that the american policy is essentially coming out through social media. i mean, this is how we find out. and the secretary of commerce was saying that the president was going to do something similar to this. and now we're seeing that we're getting our policy from truth media. >> yeah. well, i mean, you know, i think we didn't even talk about china in this whole conversation, which they have the additional 10% tariffs after the first round already that was implemented in february, their their embassy in the united states commented on x yesterday, saying a very strongly worded i don't have the verbatim exactly, but it was something to the tune of whether it's a tariff war, a trade war, or any type of war, we will fight till the end. i mean, diplomacy is playing out on social media, interestingly, on one of elon musk's platforms

as well, i should point out. but nonetheless, this is kind of the tariff war as we see it, and this is how it's going to play out over the next few months. in a month from now, we'll probably be looking very closely at these types of. >> yeah. and sabrina, i have been told by different sources that there actually has been a very good line of communications on a number of different federal agencies. and, you know, the executive with the president of mexico. >> yes. i mean, i think that's something that trump has wanted to continue. i think claudia sheinbaum has been kind of taking from lopez obrador's playbook and saying, okay, they managed to have a very positive relationship. how can she continue to do that? i think, of course, both leaders do kind of buy into a more populist messaging. so there is some levels of, you know, areas where they can cooperate. and i think there's just an understanding in mexico of how important the relationship with the united states is. i mean, a hugely consequential not just on trading, but on so many other fronts. so i think there is an

awareness that they have to play nice with donald trump. and i think it's notable that sheinbaum is not letting this play out publicly. she is not tweeting, you know, arguing with him in the ways that we see other leaders maybe being a little more defensive. so she's trying to find that common ground and let trump be trump. let trump tweet what he's going to say or let trump post on truth social. and so be it, as long as it gets the results she wants for mexico. >> and lance, do you think that the discussion of, for example, tariffs that the president has repeatedly said is one of the finest words he knows? is this something that politically is to the president's advantage when we see that tariffs include, you know, price of aguacate is going up from $2 to 250 and $3. is this something that you think in the long run helps the president? >> well, i think i think look, again, if you're getting the fentanyl problem under control, if you're getting the southern border under control, i think those are very big priorities

for the american public. i'd also point you to an interesting story in the wall street journal this morning talking about china. they're actually fearing kind of how this whole tariff thing is going to play out, because getting what america is starting to get what it wants out of places like mexico and other countries, they're worried that they're going to be left out in the cold at some point because of the power of our economy. so to me, yes, this is a long term play by donald trump, and it seems to be having a lot of good outcomes so far. we're going to have to let play it out and see how it goes. but when you see stories like that of china worrying about the long term effects of these tariffs, it tells you that maybe donald trump really is on the right track here in terms of getting this thing squared away. >> sabrina rodriguez, lance trover and brian young, thank you so very much. really appreciate it. still ahead, new reporting about what the trump administration is planning to do next about detaining migrant next about detaining migrant families. you're watching jose ♪♪ sonya earlene and marcia are among the thousands of real women

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stronger longer. see if rose sparks are right for you. >> 45 past the hour. we have breaking exclusive nbc news reporting. president trump is now considering making a major change to the united states participation in the nato alliance. the administration is discussing a potential new policy in which the u.s. might not come to the defense of a nato ally if it were attacked. if that country doesn't meet the defense spending threshold. that's according to three current and former senior u.s. officials and one congressional official. now, if that happens, it would mean the u.s. would be

going against the core tenet of the alliance, including article five, where an attack on one member is an attack on all. meanwhile, we have another nbc news exclusive. as the trump administration moves closer to russia, some of the united states allies are considering limiting the intelligence they share with the white house. joining us now, nbc's dan deluce and rick stengel, former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs and an msnbc political analyst. so, dan, what have you learned about these concerns when it comes to sharing intelligence with the u.s? >> jose. this is all a result of this sort of dramatic shift in u.s. foreign policy since president trump took office. and he's made these very conciliatory moves towards russia and has said and done things that have really rattled the transatlantic alliance in particular and other intelligence partners. and, of course, now they're talking among themselves and they're asking themselves, can we share

all the intelligence that we currently share with the united states? and some of them are asking that question whether some very high value human intelligence, human sources would be jeopardized somehow in this kind of very unpredictable, volatile moment where the u.s. is not necessarily a trusted ally who can be expected to view russia as a full blown adversary. so that's what's going on. those are the conversations happening. and the u.s. decision to pause its own intelligence sharing with ukraine has just reinforced these concerns and really causing everyone to wonder, you know, where does this intelligence cooperation go, given the current trajectory? >> you know, rick, when dan says that this is a dramatic shift in u.s. policy, that's, you know, in many ways even an understatement, rick, how do you

see this? >> all? >> oh. >> rick. >> i think. >> it's my connection. >> to dan. we just i just found out we're, you know, live tv. we just lost our communication with rick stengel. and so, dan, i want to ask you about that second issue, which is the issue of nato article five and the current administration's thoughts about a potential change in how the united states fulfills its obligations within nato. >> yeah, jose, this is really a potential earthquake. if what's already happened is a dramatic shift, it's really hard to find the words to describe what that would mean. just the fact that it's even being discussed and considered is really extraordinary and will come as yet another shock to our

partners in europe, because the bedrock principle of the nato alliance that was formed after world war two was that each member pledged to defend the other in any circumstance that it required. and of course, that's the article five, and that's only been invoked once. and that was after september 11th, when all of our allies pledged to do what they, whatever they could to help the us after those attacks. so just the fact that it would be adjusted or minimized in any way would be a shock to those european governments. and that's why you have european leaders already concerned and meeting today and pledging to make dramatic changes in how they handle their defense spending. and you hear european leaders now saying that we cannot necessarily rely on the us as as a military ally, for better or for worse, and that europe really has to take full responsibility completely for its military obligations and also to help ukraine at a much

at a much higher level. >> and i understand that we have our communication back with rick. rick, i can't wait to hear your thoughts on the bigger picture analysis of both of these seemingly individual policy thoughts and changes and decisions, but that are very closely interconnected. >> yes. >> jose, i mean. >> i. >> thought dan said it. well, it's an earthquake. i think what we have to learn to expect is that all of these foundational principles, foundational alliances, foundational beliefs that we had relied on since world war two are now up in the air with donald trump. he denies intelligence to an ally, ukraine, and seemingly support for russia. what he's doing with nato is an enormous upheaval. you know, i don't mean to make light of it, but i tend to see this. he sees it through the

lens of a landlord. you know, that these european countries are not paying their rent or not paying enough rent. therefore we're not going to give them services. i know that is maybe a superficial interpretation, but i think that's how he's seen it since, since the beginning. and, you know, the irony, of course, is that nato countries had the greatest increase in payments during biden's administration, in part because of russia's invasion of ukraine. so it had nothing to do with donald trump. and it's just in keeping with your last story about tariffs. i mean, it's a kind of a bullying impulse, arm twisting impulse to try to get his way. and then he, you know, withdraws when it doesn't happen. so this is a scary prospect. >> rick stengel and dan deluca, i thank you both so very much. and, rick, i am grateful that we were able to establish our communication. always important to hear from you. i thank you both. there are new developments this morning on president trump's crackdown on

undocumented immigration. the new york times reports growing frustration inside the white house about the pace of arrests and deportations, as the administration seeks to carry out what it says will be the largest deportation program in american history. this comes as the washington post reports the trump administration is reopening a sprawling detention center in south texas for migrant families facing deportation. with us now is immigration attorney david leopold, former president of the american immigration lawyers association. david, thank you for your time. what would the reopening of that specific facility mean? well, i guess the first question. >> you got to. ask is. what's the motivation here? what what is the point of locking up children? does this. >> does this. >> align with what president trump campaigned on when he was talking about keeping. >> our. >> city safe and things like that, and locking up people who have committed crimes? why? >> how does. >> that help us? by locking up. >> a child and the child's

mother or father and, you know. >> does it does it lower the price of eggs? does it lower the price of milk? it's i. >> guess the first question i have is what's the motive? what are. >> they trying to achieve? >> are they going back to the horrific child separation policies that we saw during trump, one that had a bipartisan recoil? republicans, democrats, independents, everybody was thoroughly disgusted and put off when they took children away from their parents. is that what we're going back to? and if so, why? >> and so what? i'm just wondering, like, and the executive has so much leeway and essentially so much power on even how directives are carried out, what priorities are put first, second, third. but but what would this mean for families? right. i mean, and what would this mean for, for those children and the parents

and their access to even basic legal assistance? well. >> we saw again during trump won that. what it means is, is they're they're cut off. they're not able to get ahold of other family members of lawyers. which brings us back to, you know, this has got to be an awfully big surprise to the american people who were voting for clearly secure borders, but were not voting to have their their the person who takes care of their mother or their father in a, in an assisted living home. deported. not not voting to have essential workers cleared out of meatpacking plants and agriculture. people who put food on their table during the pandemic. and now these are the people that donald trump is targeting. and i wonder, why are they going after these people who aspire, if they could get if they could get a normalization

of their immigration status, they would be the first people to stand in line. these immigrants, they would be the first people to register. they would be the first people to show that they bring value, because we already know they bring value to the united states. donald trump said so himself during the pandemic, when he used to refer to the same undocumented workers that he wants to lock up today. he used to refer to them as essential workers because that's exactly what they are. >> jose david, is there any do you hold any hope that maybe the broken immigration system, which everyone can agree is broken, is there? do you have any faith, any hope? >> well, i think you got to have faith and you got to have hope despite everything. yeah. ultimately, the american people are good people. the american people know, at the end of the day, what's right. again, back to the children. you saw the recoiling, the horror, the shock, the disgust. several years ago, when the

administration under donald trump tried to separate children at the border and lock them up. but we all remember it's seared in our brains, in our heads. the sound of that young child who had been separated from his mother crying in a detention center. so we do have hope because i believe in the american people. >> thank you, my friend. i really appreciate your being with us this morning. before i go, i just want to say congratulations to my colleague, to my friend tom llamas for being named the next anchor and managing editor of nbc nightly news. tom llamas is one of the people that i most admire. he is brilliant. he is courageous. he is just. he is passionate and he is compassionate. it is an honor for me to work with tom llamas, and a bigger honor to call him friend. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. alex witt picks up

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