>> friday. >> president zelensky went right to europe for help. he went to the eu summit in brussels, where the press came at him like. a school of piranhas. >> so today. >> vladimir. >> thank you for coming. >> it's a very. >> important moment. >> to show. >> that we stand. >> by ukraine. >> for as long as. >> it takes. >> thank you very much, dear antonio. dear ursula and our and all our european leaders, first of all. and for such signal strong support, this strong support from the very beginning of the. >> hold on. now, wait a minute. at least one of those was an. >> ice cream. >> cone, i think. >> wow. >> jimmy kimmel's take on that moment with president zelensky at the eu headquarters in brussels, u.s. and ukraine officials are set to meet in saudi arabia next week to discuss peace plans on how to end the war with russia. what will come out of those talks? considering vladimir putin says he will reject the european

proposal? plus, we'll go over president trump's whiplash approach to the trade war after he delayed most tariffs on mexican and canadian goods. yet again. what this now means and the republican senators who are expressing major concerns and a spacex starship exploded during a test flight yesterday, just minutes after lifting off from texas. this is the second straight failure this year for elon musk's rocket program. good morning and welcome to morning joe. it's friday everybody march 7th with us. we have the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics. the host of way too early, ali vitali, is with us, pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the washington post. eugene robinson is here, senior writer for the dispatch. david drucker joins

us. former msnbc host and contributor to washington monthly. chris matthews is here and rogers chair in the american presidency at vanderbilt university. historian jon meacham joins us. he's an msnbc political analyst. joe, a lot of whiplash to go around. happy friday. >> well, a lot of whiplash. >> and, you know, we are all so very happy that you finally have a remote studio in your villa in the south of france. this is all very exciting to all of us. and you can. you actually actually, you're winding. winding up. i guess it's night there in abu dhabi. is it your fourth international women's day conference? yes. 3050. the 3050 summit with forbes and abu dhabi. i hear it's just been an extraordinary event of women all over the world coming, coming there. and i hear it's been going extraordinarily well.

>> it's been remarkable. we have a massive increase in attendance, but also women from 46 countries are here. cross-cultural, multigenerational mentoring. and we had some amazing moments and conversations. today. i'll be talking a little bit more this hour about that with maggie and huma. >> well. >> that's very exciting and congratulations, i, we, i know we all want to hear everything that's going on there. again, it is women all over the world coming to the event. and in such an extraordinarily important message that you've now been a champion of for well over a decade, just really quickly, i just want to go around the papers very quickly. the wall street journal front page talking about, once again, donald trump paring back tariffs as stocks continue to take a plunge. and they do continue to take a plunge. we saw speaking of which, we saw and this is this is fascinating. you know

elon musk certainly we all reported that elon musk making a ton of money when donald trump was elected and when he got in. but tesla stocks have been down about 30%, 35% over the past month. and there this this business story in the new york times talking about how a lot of owners are very concerned about that, especially in europe. you have you have his obviously. he decided, i think unnecessarily i think recklessly to get involved. elon musk did and german politics and push for the extreme right wing party that that that has actually contributed to tesla's sales plummeting not only in germany but also across russia. here, when you talk about what's the impact of tariffs, here, you have kroger that's talking about warning about having to guard against massive price hikes. i

don't know if anybody's noticed, but the price of eggs, the price of meat, the price of groceries continuing, continuing to go up. and that is going to continue. certainly while there's uncertainty around around tariffs. and finally, the wall street journal editorial page, once again, they have a very strong editorial. okay. just keep it right here on this camera. i'm going to move it for you right there. don't go back to the other camera until i put this down. you have of. >> course. >> another op ed about real concerns regarding ukraine. but here you have the wall street journal editorial page saying that there is no emergency when it comes to fentanyl. there is no emergency when it comes to border crossings. those numbers are significantly down. and they warned that if donald trump is allowed to do this, the democrats will use similar emergency. and they put that in quotes. similar emergency powers to push extreme measures on the

far left. and so a lot of a lot of back and forth, as you said, mika, on on many things going on, backlash against a lot of these programs. it's fascinating. and we have to always remember this. a lot of these programs are very unpopular with the american people. the idea of getting rid of the department of education unpopular, the tariffs unpopular, very, very concerning for americans. and you can go down that laundry list, donald trump, though, if you take the cumulative average of his approval ratings, he's still sitting about where he was the night he got elected. it's you know, he's he's he's about 4848. so right now i don't know if those poll numbers where americans have problems with with, with his policies are leading indicators are they just don't believe he's going to follow through on some of the more extreme things, which usually seems to be the case

where if you tell people what donald trump says, you know, he didn't say it, and then if you show them what he said, they go, oh, he doesn't mean it. >> so we. >> will see. and, you know, you look at what's happened with doge, he's gone back and forth on doge so many times. whether elon musk is in charge or whether he's not in charge. and yesterday that changed again. i think in one of the most significant ways. >> yeah. and back and forth on tariffs, which we'll get to amid growing backlash over the sweeping federal cuts by elon musk's doge team, president trump appears to be somewhat limiting the billionaire's power within the federal government. yesterday, the president told his cabinet secretaries they're in charge of their own departments, not musk. trump said musk's role is to make recommendations on staffing and policy. following that meeting, the president posted on truth social that he's instructed his cabinet secretaries to work with

musk on cost cutting measures. he later elaborated on that statement while speaking to reporters at the white house. >> i want the cabinet members to keep the good people and the people that. >> aren't doing a good job, that. >> are unreliable, don't show up to work, etc. those people can be cut. elon and the group are going to be watching them and if they can cut, it's better. and if they don't cut, then elon will do the cutting. >> chris matthews i always tell people, if you understand what donald trump is trying to do in the white house, read the first three pages of the art of the deal, where he says, i show up at work, i pick up the phone, i make calls, try to figure out how things are going, and i sort of feel my way through it. well, you get that sense with elon musk. one day, he says elon is in charge, the next day his cabinet members call up and they're upset. so he goes, elon is not in charge. he says it's the state of the union. elon is in charge now. he says elon is not in charge, that it's the cabinet members that are not in

charge. it bounces back and forth. but there are, of course, real consequences to that, especially for those people that are taking these cases to the courts. but but for now, it does seem he's gotten enough pushback from cabinet members who are now saying, including people like kash patel, who he's very close to, are saying, this is my agency. i don't need this guy with a chainsaw telling me who's going to work for me and who's not going to work for me, and how i'm going to reorganize my own bureaucracy. >> yeah. >> he's doing all this on television. >> if you. >> noticed, he calls the tv. >> cameras in. >> for the cabinet. >> meetings he's doing. he's redirecting his cabinet officials, redirecting musk. >> i've watched. >> this. >> guy use. >> television like. nobody's ever done. >> when he went up the. >> other night on tuesday. >> night. >> talked to the. >> american people and said. >> we're paying social security checks to people who are. >> 160 years old. >> anybody reads an. >> obit page knows. >> that's. >> not true.

>> anybody knows it's not 20. >> we're not. >> spending 20 million. >> people out there. >> getting. >> free checks. that kind. >> of fraudulence is unbelievable. but he's. >> telling the maga. >> people out. >> there. >> they're stealing your money. >> don't trust. >> these people in washington. >> these are bad people. >> they are. >> the deep state. >> he did it. >> you know, he. >> talked about the election. >> being stolen. >> nobody in america will tell you. >> which states were stolen. >> from him. >> all the maga. people get them in the. >> corner and. >> say, tell me which states were stolen in 2020. they can't tell you. >> he just. >> told them that. he just said they were stolen. and with zelensky on television, he said it was great television. i'll never forget that. it was great television where. >> he. >> beat up this. guy on television. he and jd vance, and they just did it in public. so we all know what ronald or what donald. trump thinks of zelensky. >> he's teaching us. >> he's teaching us don't trust social security. >> so he can go. >> after it. don't trust. >> ukraine because he's going to go. >> after ukraine. >> and diminish that country and

its size. >> and its importance. all because this is what trump thinks and that's what it's about. it is mussolini. it's about believing the leader in what he says verbatim. and that's what trump does on television. and he's using us to do it using the medium. >> so. >> so, gene robinson, you tell me this. and chris, this isn't my original thought that chris matthews wrote me after the speech and said this. so donald trump stands up and says things that just aren't true. you know, he talks about 300. we had $350 billion to him, repeats it over and over and over again. 160 year old people are getting social security, right. that's not happening. >> but he. >> says it right. and here's the thing. if you don't know how to respond to a lie, as chris has said, that's the biggest

audience any politician is going to get. so americans, what are they to think? okay, well, i guess 160 year olds are getting so wet. i'm sorry, i know it. well, no, i don't it's not harder than it looks because i've been in congress. i can tell you it's not harder than it looks. where are the democrats when he starts saying this nonsense? why don't they get one person out there who can communicate extraordinarily well? let's make it a meritocracy. why can't somebody go up there like barack obama would have done, or like bill clinton would have done, and just sit there and laugh and go, he says there, we used to do this all the time in congress. yeah, bill clinton says this look, and you hold up a sheet. no, that's a lie. that's a lie, that's a lie. >> that why. >> why can't democrats do this? why why are they why are there now millions of americans who

believe that, quote, 160 year olds are getting social security checks? >> well, millions of americans believe it, i guess. because trump said it. >> and because. >> you're right. >> it wasn't effectively refuted. >> and to do that. >> you need you. >> need the right messenger. >> you need to figure out who that is. you need to get that person. out fast. >> and you. need to. >> respond to the. >> lies directly. and. >> forcefully. >> and you need. >> to do it repeatedly. >> to and, you. >> know, with the. so there was a fire hose. >> of lies. in that. >> address to the. joint session of congress. so you also have to pick your shots. i mean, it's not that effective if you try to respond to, to, you know, 270 lies. >> all at once. >> but the big ones, like the social security stuff, which is

completely been debunked, of course it's ridiculous, but. >> it's also been. >> disproved, you know, get out there on that, because you're right. he is telling people that this program is fraudulent and that that makes it evil and therefore makes it. vulnerable to attack. it makes it legitimate to attack it and to and to slash it. and he does that very intentionally, and he does it very well. and, and democrats need to need to find the right person and, and execute the right strategy, which is push back hard, fast, repeatedly. >> you know. >> and get people chris matthews that that are eloquent, that can speak to both sides of their party and speak to middle america. you know, i don't don't know richie torres that well, but i've seen him on tv. richie knows his way around tv. he's a

very effective spokesperson. aoc also, she she is she is center left. i understand that, but she also can speak to middle america. democrats need to get people. i'm just talking about on facts and knows how to be nimble ideologically. she's to the left. richie torres is a little center right when it comes to democrats, and both of them know how to communicate effectively on this medium. i mean, why don't democrats do that? because again, you, as you told me, you got donald trump saying that people are 160 years old, are getting social security checks, and americans believe it because democrats don't know how to rebut it. >> and in the. >> in the bar rooms of america. >> tonight, there will be people. >> after their third or fourth beer saying that story. >> they're going to say, did you hear the other night. >> that you. >> people. >> 160 years old, are getting

social security checks? obviously, the. grandkids are getting the checks. >> this system is corrupt. these clowns don't know how to run it. >> and it's the. >> very the essence of the democratic party is social security. they created the program basically with no republican support. they believe in it. they think it's the most important retirement. >> program we have. >> in. >> this country. it's. >> the. >> foundation of. >> most retirement programs. >> when corporations actually. >> had pensions. >> and it's. >> for the people. and you have to protect it. and here is the president of the united states declaring before the american people, these clowns are making a joke of their own system. they can't. >> even. >> run a decent ship. here and don't trust them. >> we got to go. >> to work on social security. >> and i think he's setting himself up. >> with musk to do some work here. >> i think he's going in that direction. else why. >> is he doing this thing? >> yeah. well, i mean, let's see, i will say there are a couple of things on the horizon that he's been talking about. it's going to be problematic. number one, he's talking about slashing the number of employees at the irs. i can tell you for

anybody that's tried, and i've heard it time and time again when i was in congress, i've heard it time and time again over the past 20 years. any middle class american that tries to get a tax refund, check back from the irs can't do it because they're already so radically understaffed and they're so underfunded. that's one of the things that joe biden tried to correct. be very careful slashing the irs that dramatically because it will end up being unpopular with with middle class taxpayers who can't get their refund checks back in less than, like a year. if we keep having all of these things and also va affairs, i can tell you i had a ton of vets in my district when i served, and veterans affairs was so understaffed. it was impossible. impossible. we've had you know, it seems like we have crises in va care every decade or so that the veterans affairs, because they're understaffed as well. and you're talking about slashing people there. again,

very easy to talk about this generally on the campaign trail i've done. it ain't so easy when you actually start trying to do it, because working americans are impacted. and john meacham cares so much about working americans. and he's he's taking this fight out on the road. he cares so much that he is gone from his pulitzer prize winning library to now he is at the men's grill kitchen at belle meade country club to talk to us this morning. thank you, john, so much for, for meeting with the teeming masses. here. we find ourselves in this fascinating place. in donald trump's. well, what are we about halfway through his first 100 days where there seem to be all of these undercurrents, all of these crosscurrents? we had him charge out of the gate. now it seems that the court cases are catching up with him. the

conflicts of cabinet members going back and forth, court cases, stopping certain moves, the united states supreme court with amy coney barrett and john roberts stopping some of the things that they did with u.s. aid. why, john, this almost looks like madisonian democracy. >> almost, almost because you still have a. >> central player. >> the. >> president. >> who. >> you know, woodrow. wilson said the presidency. >> he can be. >> as big. >> a man. >> as he can. you know that. >> there can be. >> this exertion. >> of power. >> and influence. >> and he. will continue. >> to speak. >> in the. >> just the vernacular of distrust. let me put it that way. blessedly, it looks as if the checks. and balances will

likely check. >> and balance. >> the most extreme impulses. but i'm not entirely sure that's exactly what the president. cares most about. i think what he cares. most about is what you and chris were talking about, which is dominant, domineering, attention. and absolute the appearance, anyway, of. >> absolute fealty. >> so the question to me, watching all this has become. and we're only. >> here's a remarkable thing. it's been, what, six weeks since the inauguration? i mean, that's that's something to sort of stop and think about. >> this is time is moving pretty slowly as we go through this. question is what of what. >> the president is doing becomes dispositive precedent, right? >> what of the now. >> there's the.

>> governmental changes. >> there are two, two elements here. right. >> there's the. >> the policy changes. he can. he is you're right. >> the thing. >> about the ancient social security folks, chris. >> is exactly right. >> it's going to enter the. >> imagination. >> but you. you delay one check in a district. this is true. >> and that's a whole. >> that's a whole different thing, right? everybody's always. >> against government. >> except for. their government. >> right? the farmers who voted maga, who. >> suddenly realized. >> that their. >> foreign markets. >> are closed. >> the folks. >> who make whiskey that. >> goes to, you. >> know, abroad. >> and. >> suddenly it's not being drunk. >> you know, it's just globalization. there's a reason the establishment reacted to globalization in the last 30 or 40 years. it's because globalization is real, and you can't repeal that by executive

order. so what i keep thinking about again and again is the president essentially wants. to take us back to the 1920s, an isolationist. >> era. >> a, you know, high tariffs, anti-immigrant sentiment. this is all kind of a harding coolidge hoover thing. and i. don't mean to throw. >> harding. coolidge and. hoover under the bus. >> please do. >> but but. >> that's that's. >> the kind of republicanism. and here's the republicanism that has to stand up. and that's the republicanism. >> as. >> you know, joe of. >> eisenhower. of eisenhower. >> had a very conservative brother out of practice law out in tacoma, who would write him his slightly. >> older brother. >> he'd write him letters all. >> the time saying, poor. >> dwight. >> you're not doing things right. let me, as your older brother, tell you. >> and it's. >> fascinating. and we all, you know, everybody's got one in the family, right? so edgar

eisenhower writes him and says. >> yeah. >> look. >> it looks as though, you know, you're not. >> cutting fast enough. this is more more truman, more roosevelt. people aren't happy. >> right? >> and power writes. >> him. back and. says any politician who tries to cut social security when it's become. >> part. >> of the fabric of the country will commit suicide. and there are. a few. >> extremists. >> but they are. >> stupid. and what. eisenhower did is he ratified a consensus that the state. >> has a role. >> to play, an extended role to play. >> in people's lives. >> and in many ways, the. >> trump world. >> is a. reaction to that, that consensus. and the reason. >> and. >> the reason there was a consensus is that's what people wanted. >> well. >> you know, the thing is, again, it's great talking about it generally, but you even look

at margaret thatcher, margaret thatcher, you know, i'm going after everything. margaret thatcher did not go after britain's health care system. she, she, she even she knew got to stay away from that. and you know, there are a lot of people who who say, if you look at the budget of the united states of america, they say we're basically an insurance company with an army. why do they say that? because elon musk can run around with his chainsaw and say, i'm going to cut this, i'm going to cut that. we got a $36 trillion debt. the trump plan adds another $20 trillion over the next decade. and jonathan lemire, we keep saying this for a reason, because this this is this is why you're going to have all of these plans, like run slam into reality. it's because 90% of the budget goes to medicare, medicaid, social

security, defense, and interest on the debt. we spend more money on interest on the debt than we do defending our own country. that's how terrible our $36 trillion debt has become. and so, you know, you ronald reagan, used to have this saying and following following up on following up on what chris matthews said about what happens when a social security check doesn't show up, reagan saying was that if your neighbor loses a job, it's a recession. if you lose a job, it's a depression. so we can kind of change that. given today's conversations about the 160 year olds, if you're sitting in a bar telling a story about a 160 year old that's still getting social security payments, that's a funny bar story. if you don't get your social security check

next month, that's government tyranny like that, that when that starts happening, like, you know, the pat buchanan pitchforks come out, all of this sounds great generally, but as ross perot would say, when the rubber hits the road, that's when all of this stops. >> yeah, ross perot. >> may. >> be right on that one. certainly right now the trump team is running into a little. >> reality already. >> and that's what we saw yesterday with. >> his efforts to. >> somewhat rein. >> in elon musk. >> i'm told white house advisers. >> look, they're seeing the polls. >> where trump's. >> approval rating. >> has dipped a little bit. musk's has dipped. >> quite a bit. they saw the. >> anger at the. town halls that many republicans faced in the last week. >> or two. in fact, now the nrcc is telling. >> them to stop. >> having those town halls. >> they're starting to. >> hear these. >> stories about how these cuts are. >> impacting real. >> people in ways that they. >> didn't anticipate. >> because they were going. so fast and going so big. and also, some cabinet. >> members pushed.

>> back here saying, look, this is. >> our department. >> yeah, we. >> probably will. >> do some. >> cuts. >> but not. >> like this. so david drucker. >> let's get. >> you first. >> of all on. >> that, your sense. >> of where elon. >> musk still stands. >> in the trump orbit. >> and then secondly. >> this adds. >> to chaos and confusion, which. >> i know you're also writing. >> about in terms of how trump's. >> approach to the defense department here, a lot of mixed signals. >> about what he. >> wants to do. >> go big. >> go small. >> yeah. >> the people in washington that are watching the president's defense spending plans and policy really don't know what to think. and, you know, of all of the things that trump does and. talks about. >> that have a sense. >> of indecision to them, which. >> is. >> the way he likes it. >> usually you. >> can depend on him. if you go back to the first term, you listen to him throughout his three campaigns, you can depend on him wanting to spend more money on the military. >> you can. >> you can depend on him. more recently to at least want to. to begin. the so-called pivot to china. >> right. it's a. >> part of why he wants to, you

know, supposedly reduce our commitments in europe and the middle east because we have this looming chinese threat and what republicans and pentagon watchers are telling me is that they don't actually know if any of that is true. they think it's possible that the president may be gearing up for defense cuts. they think it's possible that instead of pivoting resources to china, that he may want to set up the united states to sort of be a more of a regional power. that accepts chinese. hegemony in the asian pacific. and again. >> the key. >> words here. >> are. might and may, because nobody really knows. >> and there's just so. >> much indecision about this coming from the white house. you know, the thing about trump and the way he operates, which gives him some political leeway here, is he says things that many americans feel, even if we complain that he exaggerates or says things that aren't true. because whether you talk to

democrats or republicans across the country, they will tell you that they think the government spends money in ways it shouldn't, and therefore it's hurting the ways it's able to spend money in the ways they want it to. and so when you're talking about ways for democrats to push back on this, you can't get caught up in defending the government. you need to understand that people are uneasy about how the government operates and focus on making the government work better. nobody likes the irs, for example, joe. nobody. you know that. i know that if you. defend the idea that the irs is getting cut, people are going to fall asleep. if you tell. >> them your. >> your refund checks may not show up, then they're going to stand up and pay attention. and i think what what republicans are trying to grapple with here is how do they go along with somebody like elon musk, who's very popular with the republican base, who's very popular with republican voters, who's more

well known even than vice president jd vance, without allowing the department of government efficiency cuts to blow back on them just in time for the 2026 midterm elections. >> and you hit on something there, david, that we're watching from democrats. they're tryike this as human a story as possible, bringing these folks as guests to the joint address, highlighting what's happening in their own communities. i will say, mika, even just last night, congressman pat ryan, who's from a district in the upstate area of new york, was spotlighting a cut that is hitting in his district people who receive hud. hud subsidies for some of their housing are now being kicked out. some of them, according to a local news report, are veterans. those are exactly the kinds of stories that lawmakers are going to try to spotlight. and even just this morning, a democratic strategist who was on my show said they are starting to field phone calls in the district and in other campaign areas of veterans, of people who have lost their jobs saying, hey, i'm not just mad enough about this, that i want to go to a town hall and talk about it. i

want to run for congress. i want to come to washington and be part of the way to stop it. and so, mika, this is going to be one of the crosscurrents that republicans have to be aware of, but then also that democrats could potentially try to take advantage of. it's a long road to the midterms, but that's what they're looking towards. >> yeah. as it starts to hit home. historian jon meacham, thank you very much for being on this morning and coming up on morning joe. today marks 60 years since bloody sunday and the march for civil rights in selma, alabama. the reverend al sharpton joins us next to discuss that significant moment in u.s. history. we're back in 90s. >> come one day. >> come one day. >> we slet's get started. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. but i'm done struggling. now i sleep with inspire. inspire? inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with just the click of this button.

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arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up. the next level network for small business. ♪♪ i sold a pillow! to the world that hundreds and thousands of citizens of alabama, but particularly here. >> in the black belt. >> area, denied the right to vote. and we intend to. >> march to montgomery. to present the. >> grievance to governor. george wallace. >> mr. williams. >> what are. >> you going to do if you get stopped? >> what are we going to do if we get stuck? but we hope we won't get stopped. >> and. if we get. >> stopped, we're going to. >> stand there and. >> try to negotiate and talk them into letting. >> us. >> go. ahead to montgomery. >> we were so peaceful. >> so quiet. no one saying. >> a word. >> we were. >> beaten.

>> tear gassed. some of us were left bloody right here on. >> this bridge. >> 17 of us were hospitalized that day, but. >> we never became bitter. >> or hostile. >> we kept believing. >> that the. >> truth we stood. >> for would have. >> the final say. >> that was the late congressman and civil rights hero john lewis, shown first accompanied by civil rights leader hosea williams, before, during and 50 years after the events of march 7th, 1965, in selma, alabama. the images of lewis and hundreds of others in the march being attacked on what is remembered as bloody sunday, were broadcast across the country, shocking the nation and helping shift public opinion in favor of the civil rights movement. let's bring in the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation,

reverend al sharpton. he will be traveling to selma tomorrow to commemorate the 60th anniversary of bloody sunday. but, reverend, today, where are we in the journey? >> well. >> we are. >> in serious. >> question about the journey because we're seeing states all over this country change a lot of their voting laws. we're seeing a lot of places where voting rights are being changed in terms of easy access to early voting, or people cannot even get water online. so there's been a concerted effort to undo the right to vote in 1965, when there was the voting rights act that followed the bloody sunday, the story was often told to those of us who were too young to have been there on that original march, how, when lyndon johnson, as president, signed the civil rights act, doctor

king said to him, now we need a voting rights act. and president johnson said, well, martin, i've used all my power. i can't get a voting rights act. and when they left the white house, andrew young with doctor king, who was an aide to doctor king andrew young, said, you heard what the president said, doctor king, he said he doesn't have the power. what are we going to do now? and doctor king said, well, i guess we're going back south and get him some power. and that led to the selma march to dramatize the need to vote. when they marched that sunday, they had no idea the troopers would do what they did. they were planning a ten day march, and in fact, they were tear gassed. they were beaten. amelia boynton, who had brought them to selma, tear gas and the drama of that being televised, outraged americans and led to the civil rights act. so every year people have gone back and reenacted that march.

i've been there the last 25 years as i've been old enough and out front in civil rights, and on this 60th occasion, i think about the progress that has been made and the threat, the progress is, as you show, i marched across that bridge with the first black president during the first during the 50th anniversary. now in the 60th anniversary, we're facing a president that, in our judgment, is hostile to those rights. >> great progress, extraordinary progress, and great challenges, extraordinary challenges. you know, jean, just looking back at the pictures, the video, listening to ref talk about it and how it led to the voting rights act of 1965. i'm just i'm struck that really again, its

extremes, its excesses, its hatred, its violence that always backfires. what doctor king always would say that that you can't defeat hate with hate. you can only defeat it with love. well, you look at selma and the year before that, you look at what happened in birmingham with the church bombing that killed those poor young little girls in sunday school. it was both of those tragedies that shook americans, that shook, quote, moderate whites into action, which is why we got the civil rights act of 1964 and the voting rights act of 1965. it is an extraordinary history. and through all of this, martin luther king junior preached peace. they show us hate. we will show them love and we will

win. and he did. >> yeah. >> i am. >> in awe and. >> will always be in. >> awe of the of the. vision and the bravery that it took to. >> to march. >> out on. across that bridge, knowing. >> what was going to happen. >> and, and yet. >> moving ahead. >> in peace in. >> nonviolence. >> but insistently. >> with, with with great courage. it was just. an amazing thing. historic moment. and it it shocked the conscience of the. nation to. >> see the. >> beatings and. >> the gassings and the and the and the terrible injuries. >> being inflicted. >> and john lewis head being cracked open. and so my question to rev. rev, do we still have a conscience? does this country

still have a conscience? how do you how do you reach that, that part of people that that it's where their faith resides. it's where their inner self lives. how do you reach that at a at a moment when diversity is being demonized? equality is being demonized. how do you how do you do that? and is there still a conscience? >> i think that that's the test that we face every time there's been a step forward. there's always been the backlash. and i think that we did see conscience when george floyd happened, just like the tragedy in selma led to the voting rights act. just like birmingham bombing led to the civil rights act. george floyd brought us to another moment. and where a lot of the things that are being fought now diversity, equity and inclusion

and others were reaction to that tragedy. and i think the backlash has been the president of the united states now who has come behind that, trying to push it back. but i think that there are people with conscience that's going to fight back. that's not going to let us go backwards. and it's up to us to pass the test in time, like doctor king and john lewis and others did in that time, and not allow us to go back. yes, there are people that are evil, but those of us that believe that we can be righteous even in the face of evil, need to stand up and be counted and report to duty. >> and rev. >> you're doing such. >> extraordinary work, not only keeping that legacy alive alive, but also. pushing forward with it in the present day. and they'll certainly. will be watching. the commemorations. >> this weekend. >> yeah. >> certainly. president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton, thank you very much. politics nation will be airing live from selma, alabama, sunday at 5 p.m.

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cases. ali solves picky eating with every healthy, tasty bite and the evidence wagging tails. >> almost every industry in kentucky has gone and said it will hurt our industry and push up prices of homes, cars. and so i'm going to continue to argue against tariff. >> i'm worried. >> about the tariffs. >> we're in uncharted waters. >> i think. >> if the tariffs do. >> start to. >> cause inflation. >> i think. >> the president will. >> will, will back. >> away from them. >> should he. >> back off of it. if it goes, if it. >> starts to hurt my constituents when we start. >> losing you, back off. you know. >> there's such a thing as strategic retreat. at the end of the day, i think we. >> have more. >> leverage than any other nation. >> but we've got to be smart and we don't have all the leverage. >> those are just a few republican senators expressing their concerns over president trump's tariffs. it comes as donald trump has now postponed

imposing those 25% tariffs on a variety of imports from canada and mexico, just two days after implementing them. the exemptions apply to about half the goods coming in from mexico, and around 40% of the imports from canada that comply with the north american trade deal reached during donald trump's first term. meanwhile, the wall street journal editorial board continues to focus on this, arguing that trump's tariffs are no emergencies. and david drucker, it is it is consistent every day. the wall street journal editorial page are either talking about what republicans have always talked about, how damaging tariffs are, or the editorial below that talks about the one sided deal that donald trump is trying to push on the ukrainians, and how it's going to end up being devastating for ukraine and the west. let's talk about tariffs, though. where where are the republican senators? where are republican house members on

tariffs right now? and how concerned are they with the market falling? how concerned are they with the with the threat of a recession or, or massive inflation? >> look, i think they're concerned about all of that. most republicans in congress don't philosophically believe in tariffs the way donald trump does, particularly for republicans who have been here for quite a long time. but there but there are more supporters of the president's approach to this than there were in the first term. and another, you know, key thing here, joe, of course they're concerned. and i know that in washington, the lobbying effort for exemptions from tariffs using republicans who are close to the president to get to him because he does like interaction. and they figure by having republicans the president has relationships with to make the case, they have a better chance of either winning an exemption or at least gaining a hearing with the president to get him to look at this differently. we've covered this

at the dispatch extensively. but but you know, here's the thing about this. the president in the first term had horrible political standing with the american people, voters writ large from the very beginning. he was in the low 40s, never had a honeymoon, and he was surrounded on his economic team and across the cabinet by traditional republicans who urged him to abandon the tariffs or to not pursue them. right. so he had a much different sort of echo chamber around him. it wasn't his echo chamber. it was the more, you know, traditional republican echo chamber we're used to this time around. he's surrounded by cabinet members, by aides who believe in his tariff policy and are not urging him away from it. he's getting much less pushback from capitol hill because you mentioned, you know, how strong his numbers are. he's enjoying a traditional honeymoon. and so they're going to give him leeway and latitude and not push back on him in a way that you might think. and if it doesn't work, i think the hope is that he'll see that for

what it is and back off on his own. >> there is a hope that he might see that and back off on his own, certainly from capitol hill. that's the private conversations that republicans have. but i think that you're right. the striking thing that's different about this trump term is the way that there are so few guardrails here. congress is remade in his image. the cabinet is remade in his image. certainly all of his advisers in the white house. no longer are you seeing reince priebus playing against steve bannon, playing against gary cohn, jared kushner. those fiefdoms are gone. what does that mean now from a policy perspective, chris, we're seeing that. will republicans ever find the line for pushback? >> well, he's. >> taught the. >> american people at the maga. level what. >> the truth is. >> as he knows the truth, he believes in tariffs. he says, i love the word tariffs. >> who else. >> loves the word tariffs? >> but he. >> has. said so. >> and the maga. >> base is so. >> with him. >> and the members of the. senate are so afraid. >> of that base. >> that's what it comes. >> down to. >> he gets the. >> base and the base tells. >> the senators. >> what to do. capitol hill i

was up there yesterday. it's different than it used to be. no one is in the house dining room. there's nobody getting together. >> the two. parties don't. >> meet each other. they don't even talk to each other. they go to their. >> separate conferences, the. >> republican and. >> democratic conferences. >> they go to their fundraisers. >> and it's all about. >> getting in touch. >> in touch with donald. trump and the base. they are scared to. death of. >> the base. >> of the. >> maga people. >> yeah, it seems to be going around because it seems they're scared of the base on both sides of pennsylvania avenue. chris matthews and senior writer for the dispatch, david drucker, thank you both. and, you know, mika talked about this a couple of days ago. and, boy, it really is true when you're trying to figure out what donald trump is doing with tariffs. what he's doing with tariffs is what he's been talking about on tariffs for 40 years now. i mean, you can look at what he said, you know, going back into the late 1980s on the today show. and he

said america's suckers, we're suckers for japan and all these other countries. we need to put tariffs there. he's been a skeptic of nato for 40 years now, saying we've spent too much money on nato. a disproportionate amount said that on larry king 40 years ago. the same thing with foreign aid. he has been a skeptic of foreign aid now for 40 years. so this there's a reason why it doesn't fit in with traditional conservatism, traditional republicanism, because republicans and conservatives have not believed that over the past 40 years. but the guy who was their president has and does. >> yeah. and a lot of people like the message. we'll see how it goes, though. we are here, by the way, in abu dhabi at the forbes and know your value 3050 summit, a global event bringing together generations of women from both the 30 under 30 and

the 50 over 50 lists. there are hundreds of women here from 46 different countries. we've also heard from many inspirational speakers. take a look. four years ago, this partnership with forbes immediately went global with the 3050 summit. here at the crossroads of the world. so i think it's safe to say, like the gps says in your car, we have arrived. women are so used. to carrying. the weight. yes, we will carry the weight on our minds, on. >> our shoulders. >> in our. >> spirits, on. >> our bodies, because. we're carrying somebody else's luggage. >> and i. >> would say to women right. >> now. >> put down that excess luggage. it is weighing. >> you down. it's not yours. >> don't carry it. let them carry their own weight.

>> wow. >> one of the biggest advantages to being in in rooms. >> with. folks who are not. >> like you is you get a bigger perspective, a better perspective on. >> the things you see and. >> the things you don't. >> it's okay. >> to be afraid. >> but the most important thing is to remember. >> that you need to always. >> move forward, right? >> you deal with the fear and the way you choose to deal with the fear. >> is what's important. >> no successful. man or woman ever. >> was 100%. of the decision they. >> are making. this is what you always need. >> to remember. >> you need to take risks. you need to say. >> hey. >> if i fail. >> so what? i try again tomorrow. >> joining me now, msnbc contributor and vice chair of the 3050 summit, huma abedin, and editor of forbes women, maggie mcgrath. okay. the teams together, we're here at the crossroads of the world. and huma, we're coming together at such a tumultuous time, which actually has made this event. if

it's if it's possible, even more impactful. >> we are. >> living in. >> tumultuous times. >> and we are living in a. >> world of divide. >> what we. are creating. >> here and then building upon the last few years. >> of the forbes. >> 3050 summit. is building a global community. >> we have women, as you said, from. >> 46 countries. they come here every year. >> and they know they can. >> find a mentor, a. >> friend. >> a new perspective, as alexis. >> just referenced, and acceptance. >> and for new women who are coming, i think it's a whole. new world of opportunity and possibility. they are inspired. i just got off a panel with maggie. we spoke. to a writer, an actor. >> a journalist, and. >> they all share. >> very similar life. >> experiences and had. >> lots of words of. >> wisdom to share. >> and i think this last night. freida pinto, tell us about that conversation. >> freida pinto. >> successful actor. >> creator, producer. maternal health. and girls education advocate took. >> the whole room. >> through a story of, you know. >> the journey of her life. >> where she.

>> entered hollywood, took the roles on that she thought society and the. >> industry expected of. >> her, and. >> it. >> took her a while to find her own value, to take a break, get off the acting train and saying, what do i want? >> how do i tell stories. >> that i want to. >> tell that are. >> more. >> representative, that. >> incorporate a more. >> holistic picture. >> for the. >> for the world, and. >> actually said. >> that for girls to succeed, especially. >> little girls. >> who feel. >> like their. >> futures are. >> limited, they. >> have to. >> push to find and make space for themselves to be heard. >> i spoke with economist and also the wife of the prime minister of albania, about. growing up in a communist, isolationist society and then going through the changes, and it was so. interesting and in some ways very timely to hear about the pressures that her family faced and her country faced during such massive transition. and then deepika padukone, bollywood's highest paid actress, and she was fantastic, inspiring and had some really important advice about mental health. and you

guys just wrapped up our town hall. maggie, tell us about it. >> it's one of the best events of the summit, because we don't have time to take questions from the audience during the one on one interviews. so we brought back alka joshi, marsai martin, and we talked about. everything from your best mantra for success to there's a question about toxic, toxic workplaces that drew a lot of comments from the audience. and how do you deal with that as women? and then alka made a really beautiful point about how many female breadwinners there are and how we don't talk about that enough and how we have to own our power. money is power. i think she gave us a great idea for future coverage in this summit. >> and tonight the awards real quick. what do we have to look forward to? >> we will be honoring yusra mardini, who you heard in one of those clips. lynsey addario, a tremendously courageous photojournalist. we will also be and this has been off the record until now. we will be honoring the work of ursula von der leyen. she is the president of the european commission. we had hoped. she would. >> be here, but she's been. >> dealing with some important

issues, including in the last 24 hours announcing an k7800 billin defense package that will be, you know, crucial in defending europe and ukraine as a whole. you, mika and your brother mark will be acknowledging her not just current work, but the entirety of her career. she's broken so many barriers, and she is, of course, number one on the forbes list of the world's most powerful women. so we are excited to hear what you and mark have to say about her. >> literally the most powerful. >> woman in the world. who? >> maggie, thank you very much. you can check out more highlights from the 3050 summit at know your value.com, and of course all over social. we'll have much more for you about the event next week on morning joe. and still ahead here on morning joe. thomas friedman joins the discussion. plus, ranking member of the house armed services committee, democratic congressman adam smith will join us to weigh in on president trump's second term, the war in ukraine, and so much more. also,

nbc's julia ainsley is standing by with her new reporting detailing the growing fears over the trump administration's ice raids and why it's keeping some students out of the classrooms. we're back in one minute, right? >> kids? >> i'm sure you're wondering. >> why your mother and i asked. >> you here tonight. it's because. >> it's a buffet of all you can eat. butterfly shrimp and sirloin steak. >> yeah, that's the reason. >> i don't get it. >> do you haveomm or just stop .

>> for the. >> ones who get it done. >> trump once again reversed. >> course and announced that he's pausing. >> the tariffs against mexico and canada for one month when he describes. >> his economic policy. >> trump said. >> basically. >> i just keep hitting snooze. >> can you believe. >> we're shaking. >> down canada? they must be. >> so confused. we had such a good relationship. it's like, you know what it's like. it's like we suddenly got. >> hooked on meth. >> and we went. to the apartment upstairs, you know? do you got any money, donald? >> canada and mexico. >> are one thing, but please don't. off china. >> i know. >> you wrote the art of the deal. >> but they. >> wrote the art. >> of war over. >> and i think a. >> trade war with china might. >> lead to, at best, a devastating economic. >> depression. >> or. >> at worst, nuclear destruction of our most. >> of american cities. or. >> as trump. >> might say. >> there'll be. >> a little disturbance. >> welcome back to morning joe. it's friday, march the 7th.

jonathan lemire is still with us. ali vitali also here. and we have a number of stories that we're going to be following this morning, including donald trump postponing tariffs on a variety of goods from canada and mexico just two days after implementing those tariffs. the whiplash rattled markets yesterday, despite the president's insistence that the exemptions had no effect on wall street. meanwhile, the president appears to be somewhat limiting the power of elon musk's doge team within the federal government, saying that the cabinet secretaries will be the ones that drive any firings and oversees. senior white house officials and ukrainian officials are expected to meet in saudi arabia next week for discussions about a potential cease fire with russia. this as administration officials engage in direct talks with hamas over the release of u.s. hostages still held in gaza. the cease fire there remains in limbo after the first phase of the deal expired. let's bring in right now foreign affairs columnist for the new york times, thomas friedman. he's the author of the book from beirut

to jerusalem an insider's account of his reporting in the middle east over the past 30 tumultuous plus years. hey, tom, thank you so much for being with us. i don't i don't i don't want to talk about the competition this morning, but i don't think you'll mind. wall street journal editorial page i just want to read you a little bit about what they say about donald trump's dealings currently with with russia. if mr. putin really wants peace, why would he object to a modest deployment that poses no threat in russia? the answer is that the post war goal is to leave ukraine in a weakened state that isn't aligned with the west, and is ripe for his next imperial assault. he wants to own or dominate ukraine full stop. meanwhile, the u.s. continues to squeeze zelensky. if mr. trump wants to end the killing, why is he withholding intel that will encourage russia to escalate and kill more ukrainian civilians and soldiers? this is a one sided peace process, and ukraine is supposed to make all the concessions, while russia

demands more rewards for its unprovoked invasion that has killed hundreds of thousands. that's in this morning's wall street journal editorial page you have written in extraordinarily moving terms about this and the consequences of it. tell us where we are right now. >> well. >> joe, where we are. >> is just imagine a. >> poker game and vladimir putin has a pair of twos, and donald trump. >> has. four aces. >> and putin says, i'm going all in. and donald trump says, i think i'll fold. okay. i've believed from the very beginning of this war and wrote that it's going to have to end with some kind of dirty deal, as it were. russia is going to be able to hold some ukrainian territory because it matters more to them than it does to us. >> to. >> evict them from every inch of ukrainian territory. the question, joe, is how does the war end? and from my perspective, we have. to have two things. one is. >> alluded to right there. >> in the journal's editorial. >> there has to be.

>> some kind. >> of european. >> tripwire force on the ground. that says to putin, you cannot come back, a tripwire force that britain and france have both offered us, backed by the united states. number one. number two. ukraine is not going to be in nato. >> but ukraine must be allowed. >> to continue. >> its process. >> of joining the european union. i've always believed this war for putin was much more. about the european union. it is vital that this war end with putin having and russians. >> having to. >> look. >> every day. >> at a slavic. european union, a slavic. >> ukraine. >> in the european. >> union, in a capitalist, democratic. >> and free market, right next door to. >> a slavic putin's russia that. >> is thieving, kleptocracy, failing economy. if that's how the war ends with a tripwire that putin can't come back and. >> ukraine in the. >> european union, then we are in a long. >> term process. >> that actually weakens putin and doesn't strengthen him. we're showing a map right now, tom. let's say putin gets his

way because of donald trump in ukraine. is moldova not next? are we then not looking at the baltic states, estonia, latvia, lithuania next? and he's in effect reconstituted the entire old soviet union? well, you're you're exactly asking. >> the right question, joe, which is that. >> if this. if this war ends on terms that every neighbor understands that putin has come out stronger, first of all, they will all adjust their politics. putin doesn't have to invade. they will all adjust their. >> politics, become. >> more pro-russian. but secondly. >> i believe. that germany. >> will certainly begin a debate. >> on whether they should acquire a nuclear weapon by the same. >> by the. >> way. >> the same thing will happen with our. allies in asia. if america. >> is out. >> of the. business of giving a nuclear umbrella to. >> japan, korea, germany, then they. will eventually feel. >> they need one of their own. because why was. >> ukraine invaded? >> because they gave up their nukes. >> so, you. >> know, for trump to just say. >> well, this war. costs too

much. imagine if we. >> end this war in a. >> way that triggers. >> massive nuclear proliferation. tom, can we go through history, just just history of dealing with the soviet union and russia? and of course, i read the wall street journal editorial page this morning talking about how now sergey lavrov says, we don't want the french deal, we don't want this, we don't want that. they won't even agree to the most modest of requests that are out there. now. i've been talking for the past week or so about what happens when you show weakness to the old soviet union and to russia. yalta 45 fdr thought he was going to win a charm offensive. they kind of pushed churchill to the side. 62 jfk in vienna george w bush talking about looking into the eyes of putin. then the invasion of georgia, barack obama's reset and telling medvedev, hey, we'll be able to do more after the election. after the election, ukraine is invaded and crimea is

invaded. passenger airliners shot down. the obama administration doesn't want to give ukraine any weapons or defensive weapons, even because it would provoke them. and now here we are once again, vladimir putin. you know, we have yet another president who thinks that they can deal with putin, talk about how showing weakness, especially with vladimir putin, only leads to more war. well, joe, you just. >> cited. >> the record. >> you know. >> when i grew up in. >> minnesota, every summer they had a state fair. >> and as a. >> little boy, i. >> was always fascinated by the guy who could guess. your weight. >> how does. >> he. >> do that? you know. >> and if you got it right or wrong, i don't remember. you won a kewpie doll or or. >> whatnot. >> in europe, people. >> can guess your power. especially around russia. >> from 100 miles. >> away, because. >> their life depends on it.

>> and. >> putin understands that putin went, joe, from a. leader who in his first. decade was a distributor. >> of wealth because there was a growing. wealth when the collapse of the soviet union. >> and then. putin brought some more. >> order, and. >> then oil prices went up. he went from that. >> he changed in the. >> 20 tens. >> to a distributor of dignity. >> basically because he couldn't deliver the wealth anymore. >> because to get to the. >> next stage of wealth, he had to open up. >> the economy. he had. >> to have a russian. >> silicon valley, all of those things. and so he needs these kind of wars, basically to justify his autocratic rule and his militarization of his economy. >> so he's not going. >> to stop unless he is stopped. >> in a. >> smart way, in a way that is cost effective for europe. you provide a tripwire, we back it up and we get ukraine into the european union. that's an end of the war that makes russians compare ukraine and the european union. >> putin's russia not so good. so that's my problem with. >> the. with the trump.

>> people on this. >> is, by the way, we have to end. >> this war. >> joe. >> europe cannot. afford a long. >> debt funded war with russia. so we do have. >> to end this war. >> we have to do it though. >> in a smart way. >> and that's what i do not see happening here. >> i think most people agree with that. and i know even the biden administration, going back to 2023, wanted to end this war. but it's not the ukrainians who don't want to end this war in a dignified way. right now, it continues to be putin. it continues to be russia. could you talk about just just sort of fill out your your your description of what donald trump is holding and also mainly what vladimir putin's holding there, sitting playing cards at the table. donald trump has four aces, you know, and i wouldn't even give putin right now, you know, a pair i think he's got a busted straight talk about how devastating this war has been to

russia and what a weakened state vladimir putin is in right now. is. donald trump seemingly rides to the rescue for him. well, you know, i. >> mean, from the beginning of this war, joe, there's been something off. every time. >> i. >> hear trump discussing. >> this war. now, think of that meeting in the oval office. i was. >> thinking about it the other day. >> there was. >> the leader. >> of the free world, and donald trump was also there. >> the leader. >> of the free world. was zelensky. okay? he was the one. >> making the case for freedom. >> and when you hear trump. >> talk about ukraine. when you hear him talk about this war. >> there is something off. >> and it gets to a larger point that i think we all have to come to terms with. okay, we. >> you know, the world, the. >> government, the media, the. >> courts spent $1 billion probably. >> trying to. prove collusion between trump and putin. >> that somehow putin has. some goods. >> on him, some pictures, some money. who knows what. i never bought into that. >> but i doubly.

>> don't buy into it now, because the real truth. joe is hiding in plain sight. donald trump likes autocratic russia more than he admires, respects a democratic, free market. ukraine. that is the truth. it's been true from the very beginning. >> and he admires. putin because he wants. >> to. >> be putin. >> and so. unless we. >> come to terms with. >> that fact, this is the only way you can explain why he talks. we are taking intelligence away from ukraine, you know, before the war. again, it's like trump is trying to buy a trump tower in moscow from, let's say, a guy called. >> putin. >> and he goes. >> to the. >> meeting with his banker, and before the meeting starts, his banker, let's call him jd vance says to trump, you know what? you don't have the cards to conclude this deal. and you know what, by the way, i want you to take. out a. >> second mortgage. >> on your hotel right now and. >> pay me all the money, and then we'll go into. >> the negotiation like, that's. >> not right. there's something wrong there. and what's wrong

there? >> we keep looking for, you know, some conspiracy. no, what's wrong is hiding in plain sight. our president admires, respects and likes the president of russia more than he likes our democratic ally, the ukrainians fighting for the defense of the free of a europe whole and free. that's the fact. and it's really scary to me because we've never been here before. we've never in the modern era had a president more sympathetic to russian autocracy than western free market democracy. >> so. >> tom, let's switch now. >> to the middle east. >> some unease this week about whether the cease fire, very fragile. >> will hold. >> and also the news confirmed by the white house that they've been dealing directly. >> with hamas. >> for this next piece of negotiations. what is your assessment of i mean, is it so hard to predict what happens in the middle east? >> but just tell us where you. >> think things stand right now. >> i just want to say one. >> thing, jonathan, on the

middle east, which is that american negotiators and ukrainian negotiators are meeting in in riyadh, saudi arabia. now, riyadh is a nice town. now. >> why in the world. >> are do we have to meet with the ukrainians? unlike some neutral ground, we've been supporting their war effort. why can't it be in new york or washington or kyiv or or berlin? like what in the world is that about? we're the only hotel rooms available in riyadh. so that that strikes me as, like, doubly weird. i'm all for the trump administration talking directly to hamas. i'm all for anything that will end this war immediately. but again, it comes down to the core issue, and it's also been hiding in plain sight. the only way to end this war in a meaningful, stable way is for there be a deal. hamas gives up all the hostages. israel agrees to a permanent ceasefire. israel gets out of gaza. hamas leadership gets out of gaza. and

then you have an arab peacekeeping force come in. and also arab reconstruction efforts, and you rebuild gaza. but it will only happen just like you need that tripwire. european security force to make ukraine happen. it will only happen if the palestinian authority, the legitimate spokesman for the palestinian people, blesses such a deal. and the only it's the only way the arabs will go in. they have announced that this week, and that is a fundamental point of contention with bibi netanyahu. he does not want the palestinian authority to bless a deal. he does not want the pa to be in gaza in any way, and appear to be an effective governing force, because if he does, it will mean he has to negotiate with them on a two state deal and he will lose his government. so this war has been fought in a crazy way from the very beginning, entirely because of the political needs of bibi netanyahu. israel goes in, it goes out, it goes in, it goes out. and they keep looking for the immaculate palestinian, the

perfect palestinian, who is not in hamas. he's not in the pa, he's not this he's not that. it doesn't exist. and that's why, until donald trump comes to terms with the fact that our interest in bibi netanyahu's interests are in fundamental contradiction in the long term, not the interests of the israeli people. but in bibi netanyahu's political interests. until he can learn that early trump or he can learn that late, but he's going to learn it sooner or later. >> tom vitale here in washington, you're talking about the tumult on all these various fronts. can you layer on top of it the unpredictable nature of the tariffs that we've seen from the trump administration? how does that further complicate things on the world stage in terms of u.s. global relations? >> well, again, you know, ali, i supported trump's original tariffs on china. we should be asking for reciprocity with them. and i think that's a very legitimate issue. but again, if you don't know where you're

going, any road will get you there. and just tariffs are two closest allies mexico and canada in a in a massive way without any strategy. i give you a simple point, which is that here's what donald trump does not understand. no country in the world today can make an iphone. let me repeat that, folks. no country in the world today alone can make an iphone. its supply chain is global and it's massive. so donald trump has this view of the world that's right out of like the 18th century, that joe makes wine and ali makes cheese. and ali has everything she needs in her country to make the cheese. and joe has everything he needs to make the wine. and ali and joe trade, okay? that's not how the world works today. the world is a set of ecosystems. there's a global microchip ecosystem. there's a global vaccine ecosystem. hello. there's a global agricultural ecosystem.

mexican beer is made with american barley. okay. so when you come in and you just interrupt this without any plan, you basically shoot yourself in the foot. you know, the ford f-150 is the most popular american car. it for decades, about 30%. a little over 30% of its parts are made in america. and by the way, ali, that's a beautiful thing because they are made in a global supply chain, particularly through mexico and canada. that ford f-150 is cheaper and better every year. and so you have to actually know how the world works before you jump in with these kind of things. yes, there's a really legitimate case for tariffs on china, but mexico and canada are integration is our answer for china. and the other thing is if i can just continue this, it's very important. trump is killing the electric vehicle business okay. so let's look at ford.

ford does about 40% of its business outside the united states in that market. outside of the united states, 60% of the electric vehicles are sold by china. so it's competing with china out there. if trump comes in and kills ford's ev business, they're killing ford's ability to compete globally on cars. okay, so none of this has been studied. it's a giant riff, and it gets to the core. truth of trump two. trump one was surrounded by buffers, responsible, intelligent adults. so when he came back from a night at the mar-a-lago restaurant or bar with some crazy idea, those buffers would contain it. this trump two is built around amplifiers. he comes back with some crazy idea from the last person he talked to. and these guys amplify it. there's marco rubio though. who's who. marco rubio is setting a land speed record for making himself irrelevant as secretary of state. he's basically secretary of state to panama. okay. and one reason is

because trump comes up with some crazy idea in gaza or whatever that he's not briefed on, and marco rubio just amplifies it. scott bessent, the treasury secretary, just amplifies it. previously, buffers contained it. and that that's what scares me most for the long run. he's surrounded by amplifiers now, bobbleheads and not buffers. >> foreign affairs columnist for the new york times, tom friedman, as always, thank you so much. and tom's piece is, of course, for the times are available online. and his book, from beirut to jerusalem now on sale with us. now, let's bring in former u.s. ambassador to poland mark brzezinski. mark, thank you so much for being with us. you. so you you served for about four years as ambassador, u.s. ambassador to poland and just left about a month ago. my the world has changed a great deal since then. you and i talked on air about the polish

people embracing u.s. soldiers, saying, this time the united states is with us. after all the years of being invaded by russia, being invaded by germany. tell me what, how, how is poland? how were the baltic states? how's moldova holding up under the threat of an expansionist russia? >> joe. >> thank you for having me this morning across the street from the u.s. embassy in warsaw, poland, is a statue of a u.s. president in one of the most prominent places in poland. that is a statue of ronald reagan. he is celebrated because he believed that the captive nations of the soviet bloc, when freed, would would transform from security consumers to become security exporters. over the last three years. that is

exactly what happened. the baltic states, poland, romania, all exported security where we wanted them to export security to ukraine. what is at stake here is credibility. they took a risk. poland took a risk in exporting billions of dollars of military equipment to ukraine. please remember, poland is a slavic nation. ukraine is a slavic nation, and russia is a slavic nation. in the mind of putin, a kgb agent who is the son of a kgb agent. what poland did was treason. so poland today is anxious and uncertain. they are listening to washington and worried about the future of nato, worried about america's commitment to the region, and worry, joe, that ukraine could become a failed state. but here's the opportunity. if this

somehow is a good cop bad cop scenario with the europeans being forced and to become disciplined in terms of their military support of the east and providing development assistance to ukraine, with the americans being the disciplinarians, then frankly, in three years time, we could be looking at a nobel peace prize prize being awarded to ursula von der leyen, prime minister starmer, president macron and, yes, president trump. if instead ukraine turns into a failed state that collapses because of lack of security, that collapses because of a lack of a modernization program, it will have a suction effect on all of europe. so this if there ever was an inflection point in europe, it is now. and a lot depends on american leadership. >> you know, you're you're in abu dhabi right now for the 3050 conference. the forbes know your value 3050 conference. and

you're going to be accepting the lifetime achievement award. i think it is for ursula von der leyen, who obviously is preoccupied with other business and could not could not be there tonight. i am curious, though, how how is europe coming together there? there are obviously fractious elements inside of the eu. is europe going to be able to come together? they certainly have the gdp to do it. they certainly have the economic might to do it. are they going to be able to come together and create a defensive force that will protect them, regardless of whether the united states has their back or not? >> well, joe, first of all, how appropriate it is that ursula von der leyen is receiving 30 over 50 conferences lifetime achievement award, because if there ever was a time for europe

to have to show a unity of purpose and a shared definition of the challenge, it is now, and the general eisenhower of this moment is a woman named ursula von der leyen. in some ways, joe, this is a little bit of a dunkirk moment for europe. europe coming to the rescue of europeans, just like in the battle of dunkirk, where boats big and small came across the english channel to rescue those scheduled for destruction, the europeans, big countries and small countries are coming to the rescue of ukraine under the leadership of ursula von der leyen. so such a propitious and correct choice of ursula von der leyen. and to answer your question, whether the europeans can do it, you have to remember that now that the americans have have declared that they're stopping military assistance and intelligence assistance to the ukrainians, the ukrainians still have 4 to 6 months of military

supplies on the ground in ukraine to sustain the battle going forward. and the europeans under the program, ursula von der leyen, just got past the european council yesterday, have another hundreds of billions of military assistance coming towards the ukrainians. so i do believe, and i am optimistic, that von der leyen is leading with purpose and optimism toward something constructive. i hope that we don't get there. i hope that the americans, under the leadership of donald trump, are able to pull a rabbit out of the hat in saudi arabia next week, and between the ukrainians and russians to find peace. it is good. it is good that the us president wants to be involved in ukraine. it is good that donald trump wants to bring peace between ukraine and russia. russian casualties are. >> at. >> 800,000 people. when the soviets pulled out of afghanistan in the late 1980s after being pulverized by the mujahideen in afghanistan, it

was at 40,000 casualties. the russians in the battle with ukraine have lost 800,000 casualties. it is time to stop. president trump is correct. the thing that will work, though, is a peace plan that does not result in a failed state in ukraine, but instead in ukraine being part of the west and part of the modern world. for that, donald trump is in the catbird seat. we need the art of the deal here. we need not just a ceasefire that results in a failed state. we need a win win, win win formula that brings ukraine and ultimately, the suction effect of a successful ukraine would be on russia into the west. >> well, and we need a president, a commander in chief who understands the reason why that statue of ronald reagan stands in one of the most prominent places in warsaw right now, and why there are plazas and avenues and statues, all in ronald reagan's tribute across

eastern europe, because ronald reagan understood that when you're dealing with russia, you get peace through strength. former u.s. ambassador to poland mark brzezinski, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. and still ahead on morning joe. u.s. immigration agents are planning a new operation to arrest migrant families with children as part of a nationwide crackdown. nbc's julia ainsley is going to be here with her reporting on this. anxiety surrounding ice raids at schools across america. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. >> pressure pushing down on me. pressing down on you. no, man. pressing down on you. no, man. ask for. under pressure. that of at&t has a new guarantee. because most things in business are not guaranteed. like a distraction-free work environment. -yeah,i'll circle back around. -get those steps in, kevin. your coworkers keeping things confidential. [phone ringing] oh, she's spilling all the tea.

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cleaner, and enjoy a spotless house for $19. >> coming in this morning with a beautiful live shot of the capitol here in washington, d.c. as we track some new reporting on the immigration front, nbc news has learned that the immigration raids being carried out by the trump administration will soon focus on arresting migrant families who entered the u.s. with their children, even those with no criminal records. a separate operation, meanwhile, to find unaccompanied minors who were released without court dates is also underway. meanwhile, a growing number of u.s. students are skipping class and staying home amid fears over ice raids at their schools. the rise in absences began shortly after the trump administration

changed, a policy that now allows immigration arrests inside schools, places of worship and hospitals. let's bring in nbc news senior homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. she spoke with families and educators across the country, including in denver. julia, what did they tell you? >> well, alec, what we're hearing is that especially in denver, they're already seeing the attendance rates go down. i was in a school where they went from a 95, 96% attendance rate down to 85%. and that's not just because they're worried about ice coming into schools. as you know, the trump administration has now made that a possibility, although we haven't seen students being arrested yet, but also because of raids in their communities. some of these schools have already seen some of the children and families in those schools be arrested. and that's having a real impact on kids who are, frankly, scared to leave their parents before the day starts. i went in and talked to a lot of them, and this is what we learned. take a listen. gaping holes left in this denver apartment door after it was broken by ice agents the morning of a february immigration raid.

behind it was nine year old nicole cueto. she said we were getting ready in the room to go to school, and then ice knocked down the door and we were really afraid. we started to cry, she said. her mother, maria, was taken into the hallway by agents in tactical gear. maria, along with other adults in their apartment complex, were placed in plastic handcuffs and taken away, leaving behind nicole and her 11 month old sister heidi. >> did you think. >> that you were going to be deported back to el salvador? >> si. yo yo tenia mucho miedo. >> she told us. yes. i mean, i was really afraid. my biggest fear was that they would send me to some place and deport me, and they would leave my babies. after six hours, maria was released with an ankle monitor so ice can keep track of her. she has since had the device removed, but nicole was given a notice to appear before immigration court. maria said she fled el salvador after the death of her husband, and said she could not support her children there. she crossed the border illegally after being

previously deported. maria says nicole now has nightmares and most of all, she is scared to go to school, where she said she once heard ice agents were patrolling nearby. what do. >> you think. >> about when you're in school? that they can come again to school and this time they will be able to enter and they will take us, she said. for students who attended this denver public school were arrested by ice the same day maria was taken into custody, according to principal nadia madden morrow. >> so as i was coming. >> into work. >> i get. >> my phone starts blowing up that there is a raid at one of the apartment buildings. where our kids live. >> come outside. >> and so i learned that our school. >> bus that was supposed to be picking up our kids. >> couldn't actually. >> get close. >> because of all of the commotion there. >> since then, she says, attendance here has dropped by 10%. ice never came on school property, and there have been no confirmed cases of ice arresting students at any school. but

students and teachers here say they are still on edge. and here's why. the trump administration did away with the long standing policy that largely kept ice from making arrests in schools, houses of worship and hospitals, leaving open the possibility of students being arrested at school. back in denver, the district here filed a lawsuit demanding that ice stay out of schools. the trump administration has argued in court that denver public schools have not been harmed. >> in this very library. the day of the raid, which it didn't happen in our schools. >> but. >> it happened nearby. the emotion. >> the fear and the terror in the eyes of our educators was significant. so no one can tell me that we. >> weren't harmed. >> tonight, maria, nicole and heidi are back in their apartment, sleeping behind the door. ice once left broken, uncertain what the future will hold for them. and in response to our reporting, an ice spokesperson says that ice makes determinations to go into a school on a case by case basis, but typically they would not make arrests inside a school.

also, as part of that lawsuit that was started by denver public schools, there is now a group of 78 schools, all representing schools in big cities across the united states, that say that their schools are all reporting increased absenteeism, lower parental involvement, and increased anxiety and fear among students. and they attribute that to the beginning of the trump administration and the rescission of that policy that largely kept ice out of schools. >> yeah, just because they haven't gone there yet doesn't mean that you're not seeing an emotional impact. people are scared. i've heard this from educators, too. how do i keep my classroom safe? how do i reassure my students that reporting so impactful, so emotional? julia. but you've also got some news overnight about family detention policies being restarted. >> that's right. so you mentioned at the beginning how they're going to do this big operation to go arrest more families inside the united states. and as of last night, there are now three families spending the night in detention in a south texas facility in karnes, texas. what this means is that they're restarting family detention. this is something the obama administration started. it was carried through the trump

administration. biden ended it. but it's different this time. and here's why. it used to be for families who had crossed the border. they were detained for no more than 20 days and then released with court dates to pursue asylum. now we're talking about families that are in the united states sending their kids to school like this who are being uprooted, held in detention before deportation. so it's a completely different way to go about this. and we'll have to see if their legal challenges and if they're able to get access to counsel while they're there. >> the important piece of this, too, is as the trump administration came in, they said they were going to be targeting dangerous people, immigrants who were criminals. >> that is the. >> worst first. >> the worst first. and that is, of course, not what we're seeing bear out here in the policy. nbc news senior homeland security correspondent julia ainsley, with that impactful reporting on the ground. thank you so much. and coming up this morning, ranking member of the house armed services committee, democratic congressman adam smith of washington state will join us to discuss the trump administration's ongoing efforts to shrink the federal workforce, including the 80,000 jobs that may soon be cut at the department of veterans affairs. plus, the latest spacex test

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veterans. >> more than a quarter. >> of. >> the va's. >> workforce is also. made up of. >> veterans themselves. and joining. >> us. >> now, ranking member of the house armed. services committee, democratic. congressman adam smith of washington state. congressman. >> good. >> to see you this morning with. >> a. >> lot of topics. >> to hit. but let's. >> start right here. >> your concerns. >> about these sweeping cuts. i mean, across the government, but particularly here for. >> veterans. >> those who. >> have served their. >> country and done for so long and. >> so well. >> well. >> it's. >> going to impact services to veterans. >> as it's impacting. >> services to people all. >> across the country. >> there's a lot of focus. >> on federal. >> employees who cares. >> about federal employees. >> there's all this bloat bureaucracy. >> and they provide services to our constituents. and in this case, they provide. >> services to our veterans. and i. was watching. some of the. >> republicans talk about, well. >> gosh. >> but the. >> veterans department has grown. >> so much. >> in the. >> last few years. >> well, we passed. >> the pact act to expand benefits to. >> veterans. >> get them benefits that they deserved. >> and should have gotten before.

>> so yes. >> it grew. it grew. >> because we expanded the services. >> that we're providing. and if. >> you. >> slash 80,000 jobs. >> those services. >> are going to. >> go down. >> and i. >> think it. >> betrays what's. >> really going on here. it's not about government efficiency. >> and effectiveness. >> it's about crippling. the federal workforce. because trump sees the. >> federal workforce as a threat to him instead of a service. >> provider for. >> our constituents. >> and for the people of this country. >> it seems like. >> these cuts, the ones that the. >> va sort of touched a nerve for some, even some republicans who are willing. >> to speak. >> out publicly against it with trump and musk were doing in. >> a way they hadn't. >> for all previous cuts. >> what was your. >> read on? what we saw yesterday were. >> both on truth social, then later to. reporters in. >> the. >> white house, trump saying that he's asked he's. >> reining in musk a little bit, saying that cabinet. secretary should be making the first decisions. >> on cuts. >> for right now, i. >> don't buy it. >> i think there's been a lot of distractions. >> throughout this process. >> musk and. >> trump. >> have come. >> up with all. >> kinds of excuses for why, oh, it's really. >> not that bad or we're not. >> going to do this. and then you. wake up the.

>> next day and it's. >> still happening. >> in fact, i. >> think i. >> saw this morning that. >> there. >> was a quote from musk. >> it's like. >> yeah. the departments will do it, but if they don't, i will. >> all right. >> so i don't think anything has. fundamentally changed. i think musk and the doge. >> are still. >> intent on taking a wrecking ball to the. >> federal government, across departments. we're talking about the defense. >> department having. >> massive cuts. so i think the. >> plan is still. going forward. they're just trying. >> to spin it. >> differently because of the pushback. >> and obviously, a backdrop. >> to all of this is. >> the looming budget fight, the potential government shutdown on the horizon. what what how would democrats. strategizing how are you going to approach this? >> well, we're going to. >> it's difficult because. what they're well, there's two. >> big things here. >> the central strategy is on the budget. >> resolution, which is different. than the fy 25. >> fight the budget resolution. >> remember. >> one of the other things they say about all these cuts is. >> my gosh, the debt. >> the deficit. >> we've got to get that under control, which i have. >> some sympathy. >> for, except. >> for. >> the fact that. >> the republican budget adds trillions of dollars to the debt and deficit because they want to cut taxes for the wealthiest.

>> people in this country. so they're. >> going to gut services. >> to veterans. they're going to gut. >> medicaid. >> and they're. >> going. >> to add to the. >> debt because they're intent upon adding. >> trillions of dollars in tax cuts. so we. >> are going to point. >> out that giving. >> more tax cuts. >> to. >> the wealthiest. >> people in. >> this country, who, by. >> the way, the wealth concentration in this country is one of the greatest challenges. we were talking a little bit before about the. >> cost of. >> education. >> about what. >> it's like now to be a working class person. so much of the power. >> has shifted. >> to the top 1 to. >> 10%. >> and away from the bottom 90. >> and what's trump's. >> economic plan? >> cut the programs. >> that are most important for the working class. >> so you can. >> give even more. >> tax cuts to the people who are already. >> raking in the. >> money over. >> the course of the. last 40 or 50 years. so that's our. >> plan is to. >> say, let's stand. >> up for working people and. >> not have the republican budget. and lastly, let's shift. >> to ukraine. i know you've been highly critical of president trump's approach to this. you know, and we should just note that even as as the president yesterday has said that russia, you know, wants

peace. >> they've only stepped. >> up their bombardments. of ukraine, including some massive explosions overnight. >> well. >> there's two things. one, i saw tom. >> thomas friedman's bit. he's absolutely right. >> trump is not doing. this because he wants. >> to. >> force both sides. >> to. >> a peace agreement. he's put no. pressure on russia. he's taken. >> it off. >> he's doing. >> it because he's. >> sympathetic to putin and russia and. >> not sympathetic to zelensky. >> and i'll. leave it to. >> therapists to. >> figure out exactly. >> why that is. but it is absolutely true. in the case he's sympathetic to russia. >> not sympathetic to ukraine. now. >> what i'm trying to do is to put pressure. on republicans to push back against. this with a very simple argument. i also heard one of your previous people. talking about. >> trump. >> wants a nobel. >> peace prize. >> he thinks he's going. >> to force peace. >> if he. >> doesn't put pressure on putin, if. >> he keeps. >> putting all the pressure on zelensky in ukraine, who, by the way, had plenty. >> of. >> pressure on. >> them already from. >> russia, he's. >> not going to get that. and i want to point out, you know, neville chamberlain did not get a nobel peace prize when hitler

took. >> over czechoslovakia. >> so if you're going. >> to want that peace. >> prize, you. better start putting pressure on putin and russia to force them. >> to the table. >> putin is the one who doesn't want to. >> negotiate, and trump's putting all of the pressure. >> on zelensky. it is not. >> just a. betrayal of. democracy and a betrayal. >> of our commitment to ukraine. >> it's stupid. >> if you're trying to actually get to. >> a. >> peace agreement. so that's. >> the argument i'm. >> trying to make to force them to actually put. >> pressure on putin. >> we all want this. >> war to. >> stop, but what trump is doing is. >> going to prolong. the war by empowering putin and. >> russia to threaten ukraine and then also. >> threaten others as well. >> yeah. >> and. >> we will. see what happens if those. meetings with ukrainian officials set for saudi arabia in the days ahead. ranking member of the house armed. >> services committee. democratic congressman. >> adam smith. >> of washington state. >> congressman, thank you. >> for being here. >> thank you. coming up, we're awaiting the february. >> jobs report. we'll break down what the numbers. >> say about the state of the u.s. economy. >> after president trump's first full month. >> in office. plus, a $95.

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>> i can feel the winds of change. >> time now for a look. >> at some of. >> the other. >> stories making headlines. >> this morning. >> pope francis. >> offered his first message. >> to the. >> public since his

hospitalization last month. >> in rome. >> in an audio. >> recording played for those in saint peter's square, the 88 year old pontiff thanked supporters for. >> their prayers. the pope, who did. sound frail in the recording, has. chronic lung. >> disease and was. diagnosed with double pneumonia. doctors plan to give another. >> update on his health tomorrow. >> and mcdonald's is giving its restaurants an eye makeover. >> as the wall street journal reports. >> the fast food. >> giant is installing programs. >> that can. predict when kitchen equipment is. >> likely to break down. the burger chain is also experimenting. >> with technology. >> that. >> can. >> determine whether orders. >> are. >> accurate before. >> they're handed to customers. also on the menu. >> drive thrus. >> that are powered. >> by ai. >> applications. >> and take a listen to this story. texas officials. >> are. investigating the state's. >> lottery system after a player purchased. >> enough tickets to essentially.

>> guarantee the winning numbers. >> they spent. >> $25 million on tickets. i'll say that. >> again, $25. >> million. >> on tickets, but then won. >> a $95. >> million prize. it's a pretty good. >> profit margin. >> according to officials. the winner. or winners. pumped out millions. >> of tickets using. qr codes that had been loaded onto ipads. it was the. >> third largest. >> jackpot in texas. lotto history, and under. >> state law. >> the winner or winners can remain anonymous. pretty clever plan. of course, you do have to have $25 million laying around to get it done. still ahead here, president trump is now changing course. >> and delaying. >> again some tariffs. >> on canada and mexico. just days after he imposed them. we'll dig into. >> that about. >> face and. >> how some. >> republican senators are responding. cnbc's andrew. >> ross. sorkin will join the conversation on trump's

reversal, and whether or not it was enough to. >> calm investors. >> the president. >> also told his cabinet secretaries that they. >> are the ones. >> who should be cutting. >> jobs from their. >> agencies, not elon musk. but that clarification came with a catch. we'll tell you what that is. when morning. joe comes right back in. just two minutes. >> for gentle, dependable. constipation relief. >> try senokot. >> it works differently. >> than other laxatives. >> because it's made from the senna plant, a natural vegetable laxative ingredient. gentle, laxative ingredient. gentle, dependable. if you have heart failure or chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life, because there are places you'd like to be. (♪♪) serious side effects include increased ketones in blood or urine and bacterial infection between the anus and genitals, both which may be fatal, severe allergic reactions, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. stop taking and tell your doctor right away

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>> right to europe for help. >> he went to the. >> eu summit in brussels. >> where the press came at him like. >> a school. >> of piranhas. >> so today, vladimir, thank. >> you for coming. >> it's a very important. >> moment to show. >> that we stand. >> by ukraine. >> for as long as it takes. >> thank you very much. dear antonio, dear ursula, and i want to thank all our european leaders. for follow and for such. signal. strong support. this council, strong support from the very beginning of the. >> hold on. wait a minute. at least one of those was. >> an ice. >> cream cone, i think. >> wow. >> jimmy kimmel's take on that moment with president zelensky at the eu headquarters in brussels. us and ukraine officials are set to meet in saudi arabia next week to discuss peace plans on how to end the war with russia. what will come out of those talks, considering vladimir putin says he will reject the european proposal? plus, we'll go over

president trump's whiplash approach to the trade war after he delayed most tariffs on mexican and canadian goods yet again. what this now means and the republican senators who are expressing major concerns and a spacex starship exploded during a test flight yesterday, just minutes after lifting off from texas. this is the second straight failure this year for elon musk's rocket program. good morning and welcome to morning joe. it's friday, march 7th with us. we have the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. he's a contributing writer at the atlantic covering the white house and national politics, the host of way too early, ali vitali, is with us, pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the washington post. eugene robinson is here, senior writer for the dispatch. david drucker joins us. former msnbc host and contributor to washington

monthly. chris matthews is here and rogers chair in the american presidency at vanderbilt university. historian jon meacham joins us. he's an msnbc political analyst. joe, a lot of whiplash to go around. happy friday. >> well, a lot of whiplash. and, you know, we're all so very happy that you finally have a remote studio in your villa in the south of france. this is all very exciting to all of us. and you, can you actually actually, you're winding. winding up. i guess it's night there in abu dhabi. is it your fourth international women's day conference? yes. 3050. the 3050 summit with forbes and abu dhabi. i hear it's just been an extraordinary event of women all over the world coming, coming there. and i hear it's been going extraordinarily well. >> it's been remarkable. we have a massive increase in

attendance, but also women from 46 countries are here. cross-cultural, multigenerational mentoring. and we had some amazing moments in conversations. today. i'll be talking a little bit more this hour about that with maggie and huma. >> well, that's very exciting. and congratulations, i, we, i know we all want to hear everything that's going on there. again, it is women all over the world coming to the event. and it's such an extraordinarily important message that you've now been a champion of for well over a decade. i just really quickly i just want to go around the papers very quickly. the wall street journal front page talking about, once again, donald trump paring back tariffs as stocks continue to take a plunge. and they do continue to take a plunge. we saw speaking of which, we saw and this is this is fascinating. you know elon musk certainly we all reported that elon musk making a

ton of money when donald trump was elected and when he got in. but tesla stocks have been down about 30%, 35% over the past month. and there this this business story, new york times talking about how a lot of owners are very concerned about that, especially in europe. you have you have his obviously he decided, i think unnecessarily i think recklessly to get involved. elon musk did in german politics and push for the extreme right wing party that that that has actually contributed to tesla sales plummeting not only in germany but also across russia. here, when you talk about what's the impact of tariffs, here, you have kroger that's talking about warning about having to guard against massive price price hikes. i don't know if anybody's noticed, but the price of eggs,

the price of meat, the price of groceries continuing, continuing to go up. and that is going to continue. certainly while there's uncertainty around around tariffs. and finally, the wall street journal editorial page, once again, they have a very strong editorial about real concerns regarding ukraine. but here you have the wall street journal editorial page saying that there is no emergency when it comes to fentanyl. there is no emergency when it comes to border crossings. those numbers are significantly down. and they warned that if donald trump is allowed to do this, the democrats will use similar emergency. and they put that in quotes. similar emergency powers to push extreme measures on the far left. and so a lot of a lot of back and forth, as you said, mika, on on many things going on, backlash against a lot of these programs. it's

fascinating. and we have to always remember this. a lot of these programs are very unpopular with the american people. the idea of getting rid of the department of education unpopular, the tariffs unpopular, very, very concerning for americans. and you can go down that laundry list. donald trump, though, if you take the cumulative average of his approval ratings, he's still sitting about where he was the night he got elected. it's you know, he's he's he's about 4848. so right now i don't know if those poll numbers where americans have problems with with with his policies are leading indicators or they just don't believe he's going to follow through on some of the more extreme things, which usually seems to be the case where if you tell people what donald trump says, he didn't say it, and then if you show them what he said, they go, oh, he doesn't mean it. so we will see. and, you know, you look at what's happened with doge, he's gone back and forth on doge so

many times. whether elon musk is in charge or whether he's not in charge. and yesterday that changed again. i think in one of the most significant ways. >> yeah. and back and forth on tariffs, which we'll get to amid growing backlash over the sweeping federal cuts by elon musk's doge team, president trump appears to be somewhat limiting the billionaire's power within the federal government. yesterday, the president told his cabinet secretaries they're in charge of their own departments, not musk. trump said musk's role is to make recommendations on staffing and policy. following that meeting, the president posted on truth social that he's instructed his cabinet secretaries to work with musk on cost cutting measures. he later elaborated on that statement while speaking to reporters at the white house. >> i want the cabinet members to keep the good people and the people that aren't doing a good job. that are unreliable, don't

show up to work, etc. those people can be cut. elon and the group are going to be watching them and if they can cut, it's better. and if they don't cut, then elon will do the cutting. >> chris matthews i've always told people, if you understand what donald trump is trying to do in the white house, read the first three pages of the art of the deal, where he says, i show up at work, i pick up the phone, i make calls, try to figure out how things are going, and i sort of feel my way through it. well, you get that sense with elon musk. one day, he says elon is in charge, the next day his cabinet members call up and they're upset. so he goes, elon is not in charge. he says it's the state of the union. elon is in charge now. he says elon is not in charge, that it's the cabinet members that are not in charge. it bounces back and forth. but there are, of course, real consequences to that, especially for those people that are taking these cases to the courts. but but for now, it does seem he's gotten enough pushback

from cabinet members who are now saying, including people like kash patel, who he's very close to, are saying, this is my agency. i don't need this guy with a chainsaw telling me who's going to work for me and who's not going to work for me, and how i'm going to reorganize my own bureaucracy. >> yeah. >> he's doing. all this. >> on television. >> have you noticed he. >> calls the tv. >> cameras in. >> for the cabinet meetings. >> he's doing? >> he's redirecting. >> his cabinet. >> officials, redirecting musk. i've watched this guy use television like nobody's ever done. >> when he went out the. >> other. night on tuesday night. >> talked to the american people. >> and said. >> we're paying social security checks to people who are. 160 years old. >> anybody who reads. >> an obit page. >> knows that's not true. >> anybody knows. >> it's not 20. >> we're not sending. 20 million people out there getting free checks. >> that kind. >> of fraudulence is unbelievable. but he's telling the. maga people out there, they're. >> stealing your money. >> don't trust these people in washington. >> these are bad people. they

are the deep state. >> he did it. >> you know, he talked. >> about the. >> election being stolen. nobody in america will tell you which. states were stolen from him. >> all the maga. people get them. >> in the corner and say, tell me which states were stolen in 2020. they can't tell you. he just told them that. he just said they were stolen. and with zelensky on television, he said it was great television. i'll never forget that. it was great television where he beat up this guy on television. he and jd vance. vance. vance. and they just did it in public. so we all know what ronald or what donald trump thinks of zelensky. he's teaching us. he's teaching us. don't trust social security so he can go after it. don't trust. >> ukraine because he's. >> going to go after ukraine and diminish that country and its size and its importance. all because this is what trump thinks and that's what it's about. it is mussolini. it's about believing the leader in what he says verbatim. and that's what trump does on

television. >> and he's. >> using us to do it using the medium. >> so. >> so, gene robinson, you tell me this. and this is not this isn't my original thought that chris matthews wrote me after the speech and said this. so donald trump stands up and says things that just aren't true. you know, he talks about 300. we had $350 billion to him, repeats it over and over and over again. 160 year old people are getting social security, right. that's not happening. but he says it right. and here's the thing. if you don't know how to respond to a lie, as chris has said, that's the biggest audience any politician is going to get. so americans, what are they to think? okay, well, i guess 160 year olds are getting so where i'm sorry, i know it. well, now, i don't it's not harder than it

looks because i've been in congress. i can tell you it's not harder than it looks. where are the democrats when he starts saying this nonsense? why don't they get one person out there who can communicate extraordinarily well? it's make it a meritocracy. why can't somebody go up there like barack obama would have done, like bill clinton would have done, and just sit there and laugh and go, he says there aren't. we used to do this all the time in congress. bill clinton says this look, and you hold up a sheet. no, that's a lie. that's a lie, that's a lie that why can't democrats do this? what why are the why are there now millions of americans who believe that, quote, 160 year olds are getting social security checks? >> well, millions of americans believe it, i. >> guess because trump said it. and because you're. >> right. >> it wasn't effectively

refuted. and to do that, you. need you need the. right messenger. you need to figure out who that is. you need to get that person out fast, and you need to respond to the lies directly. >> and. >> forcefully. >> and you need to do it repeatedly to and, you know, with the. so there was a fire hose of lies in that address to the joint session of congress. so you also have to pick your shots. i mean, it's not that effective if you try to respond to, to, you know, 270 lies all at once. but the big ones, like the social security stuff, which is completely been debunked, of course it's ridiculous, but it's also been disproved, you know, get out there on that, because you're right. he is telling people that this program is fraudulent and that that makes

it evil and therefore makes it vulnerable to attack. it makes it legitimate to attack it and to and to slash it. and he does that very intentionally, and he does it very well. and, and democrats need to need to find the right person and, and execute the right strategy, which is push back hard, fast, repeatedly. >> you. >> know. >> and get and get people, chris matthews that that are eloquent, that can speak to both sides of their party and speak to middle america. you know, i don't i don't know richie torres that well, but i've seen him on tv. richie knows his way around tv. he's a very effective spokesperson. aoc also, she she is she is center left, i understand that, but she also can speak to middle america. democrats need to get people.

i'm just talking about on facts and knows how to be nimble ideologically. she's to the left. richie torres is a little center right when it comes to democrats, and both of them know how to communicate effectively on this medium. i mean, why don't democrats do that? because again, you, as you've told me, you got donald trump saying that people are 160 years old or getting social security checks, and americans believe it because democrats don't know how to rebut it. >> and in the in the barrooms of america tonight. >> there'll be people after their third. >> or fourth beer. >> saying that story. they're going to. >> say. >> did you hear the other night? >> did you get people 160 years old are getting social security checks? obviously, the grandkids are getting the checks. this system is corrupt. >> these clowns don't know how to run it. >> and it's the very the essence of the democratic party is social security. they created the program basically with no republican support. they believe

in it. they think it's the most important retirement program we. >> have in. >> this country. it's the foundation of most retirement programs. when corporations actually had pensions. and it's for the people. and you have to protect it. and here is the president of the united states declaring before the american people, these clowns are making a joke of their own system. they can't. >> even. >> run a decent ship here and don't trust them. >> we got to go. >> to work on social security, and i think. >> he's setting. >> himself up with musk to do some work here. >> i think he's going. >> in that direction. else why is he doing this thing. >> coming up? 60 years ago today, peaceful protesters were brutally beaten as they marched for equal rights across the edmund pettus bridge in selma. we'll talk about that seminal moment in american history when morning joe comes right back. >> overcome. >> one day. >> we shall.

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at. >> vistaprint dotcom. >> our restaurant's been in business for 17 years. american technology and innovation are a part of everything we do, from helping us attract new customers to facilitating deliveries through websites and apps. i'm really excited about what artificial intelligence can do for small businesses like ours. this game changing technology can make us smarter and more efficient. advancing open source ai will make our economy and main streets stronger. our leaders in washington need to protect our competitive edge. >> i know that overnight. ba ba ba da. >> there are a couple of things on the horizon that he's been talking about. it's going to be problematic. number one, he's talking about slashing the number of employees at the irs. i can tell you for anybody that's tried, and i've heard it time and time again when i was in congress, i've heard it time and time again over the past 20 years. any middle class american that tries to get a tax refund check back from the irs can't do it because they're already so radically understaffed and

they're so underfunded. that's one of the things that joe biden tried to correct. be very careful slashing the irs that dramatically because it will end up being unpopular with with middle class taxpayers who can't get their refund checks back in less than, like a year. if we keep having all of these things and also va affairs, i can tell you what, i had a ton of vets in my district when i served and veterans affairs was so understaffed. it was impossible. impossible. we had we you know, it seems like we have crises in va care every decade or so that the veterans affairs, because they're understaffed as well. and you're talking about slashing people there. again, very easy to talk about this generally on the campaign trail i've done. it ain't so easy when you actually start trying to do it, because working americans are impacted. and john meacham cares so much about working americans. and he's he's taking

this fight out on the road. he cares so much that he is gone from his pulitzer prize winning library to now he is at the men's grill kitchen at belle meade country club to talk to us this morning. thank you, john, so much for, for meeting with the teeming masses. here. we find ourselves in this fascinating place in donald trump's. well, what are we about halfway through his first 100 days where there seem to be all of these undercurrents, all of these crosscurrents? we had him charge out of the gate. now it seems that the court cases are catching up with him. the conflicts of cabinet members going back and forth, court cases, stopping certain moves, the united states supreme court with amy coney barrett and john roberts stopping some of the things that they did with u.s.

aid. why, john, this almost looks like madisonian democracy. >> almost, almost because you still have a. central player, the. >> president, who. >> you know, woodrow wilson said. >> the presidency. >> he can. >> be as big a man as he can. you know that there. >> can be. this exertion. >> of power. >> and. >> influence, and he will continue. >> to speak in the vernacular of distrust. let me put it that way. blessedly, it looks as if the checks. >> and balances. >> will likely. >> check and balance. >> the most extreme. >> impulses. >> but i'm not entirely sure that's exactly what the president cares most about. i think what he cares most about is what you and chris were talking about, which is

dominant, domineering, attention and absolute the appearance, of absolute fealty. so the question to me, watching all this has become. and we're only. >> here's a remarkable thing. it's been. >> what, six. weeks since. >> the inauguration? >> i mean, that's that's. >> something to. >> sort of stop and think about. this is time is moving pretty slowly as we go through this question is what of what the. president is doing becomes dispositive. >> precedent, right? >> what of the now there's the governmental changes. there are two, two elements here. right. >> there's the. >> the policy changes. he can. he is you're right. the thing about the ancient social security folks, chris, is exactly right. >> it's going to enter the imagination. >> but you. >> you delay one check in a

district. this is true. >> and that's a. >> that's a whole different thing, right? everybody's always against government except for their government. right. >> the farmers. >> who voted. >> maga. >> who suddenly realized. >> that their foreign. >> markets are closed. the folks who make. whiskey that goes, you know. abroad and suddenly. >> it's not being. >> drunk, you know, it's just globalization. there's a reason the establishment reacted to globalization in the last 30 or 40 years. it's because globalization is real, and you can't repeal that by executive order. so what i keep thinking about again and again is the president essentially wants to take us back to the 1920s, an isolationist era, a high tariffs, anti-immigrant

sentiment. this is all kind of a harding coolidge hoover thing. >> and i don't. >> mean to throw. >> harding, coolidge. >> and hoover under the bus. >> please do. >> but but. >> that's that's. >> the kind of republicanism and here's the republicanism that. has to stand up. and that's the republicanism. >> as. >> you know, joe of eisenhower, of. eisenr very conservative brother out of practice law out in tacoma who would write him. he was a slightly older brother. he'd write him letters all. >> the time saying, poor. >> dwight. >> you're not doing things right. let me, as your older brother, tell you. >> and it's. >> fascinating. and we all, you know, everybody's got one in the family, right? so edgar eisenhower writes him and says. >> yeah. >> look, it looks as though, you know. >> you're not cutting fast enough. this is more more truman, more roosevelt. people aren't happy. >> right. >> and power writes him back and

says. any politician. >> who tries to. >> cut social. security when. >> it's become part of the fabric of the country will commit suicide. >> and there. >> are a. >> few extremists, but they. are stupid. and what. eisenhower did is he ratified a consensus that the state. >> has a role to play. >> an extended role to play in people's lives. and in many ways. >> the trump. >> world is a reaction to that. that consensus. >> coming up, we'll break down the february jobs report that is just crossing this hour. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin has business before the bell straight ahead before the bell straight ahead on morning joe. ♪♪ with fastsigns, create factory grade visual solutions to perfect your process. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement™.

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>> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up. >> half the night. >> reading executive. >> orders for this defining. >> time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> there is a lot. >> going on tonight. you've been in these rooms. how are you digesting it? and how do. >> you think the. >> world is. >> digesting what trump is saying? what are people saying to you. >> in. >> new jersey. about doge and what. >> they're seeing musk and his. >> team do here? what are the global politics for some. >> of these leaders. >> and why do. >> you see them stating. >> the. >> opposite of what the united states. >> president is saying? >> there are a lot of people who who say, if you look at the budget of the united states of america, they say we're basically an insurance company

with an army. why do they say that? because elon musk can run around with his chainsaw and say, i'm going to cut this, i'm going to cut that. we got a $36 trillion debt. the trump plan adds another $20 trillion over the next decade. and jonathan lemire, we keep saying this for a reason, because this this is this is why you're going to have all of these plans, like run slam into reality. it's because 90% of the budget goes to medicare, medicaid, social security, defense, and interest on the debt. we spend more money on interest on the debt than we do defending our own country. that's how terrible our $36 trillion debt has become. and so, you know, you ronald reagan, used to have this saying and following following up on following up on what chris matthews said about what happens when a social security check

doesn't show up, reagan saying was that if your neighbor loses a job, it's a recession. if you lose a job, it's a depression. so we can kind of change that. given today's conversations about the 160 year olds, if you're sitting in a bar telling a story about 160 year old that's still getting social security payments, that's a funny bar story. if you don't get your social security check next month, that's government tyranny like that, that when that starts happening, like, you know, the pat buchanan pitchforks come out, all of this sounds great generally, but as ross perot would say, when the rubber hits the road, that's when all of this stops. >> yeah, ross perot may.

>> be right on that one. certainly right now the trump team is running into a little reality already. and that's what we saw yesterday with his efforts to somewhat rein. >> in elon musk. >> i'm told white house advisers. look, they're seeing. >> the. >> polls where trump's approval rating has dipped a. >> little bit. >> musk's has dipped quite a bit. >> they saw the anger. >> at the town. halls that many. republicans faced. >> in. >> the last week or two. in fact, now the nrcc is telling them to stop having those town halls. they're starting to hear these stories. >> about how these. >> cuts are impacting. >> real people. >> and in ways that they didn't. >> anticipate, because. >> they were going. so fast and going so big. and also, some cabinet members pushed back here saying, look, this is our department. yeah, we probably will do some cuts. >> but not like this. >> so david drucker. let's get. >> you. >> first of. >> all on. >> that, your. >> sense of where elon. >> musk still stands. >> in the trump orbit. >> and then secondly. >> this. >> adds to chaos. >> and confusion, which i. >> know. >> you're also writing about. >> in terms of how trump's. >> approach to the defense. department here a lot of. >> mixed signals about what. >> he wants. >> to do. >> go big, go small.

>> yeah. >> the people in washington that are watching the president's defense spending plans and policy really don't know what to think. and, you know, of all of the things that trump does and talks about that, you know, have a sense of indecision to them, which is the way he likes it. usually you can depend on him. if you go back to the first term, you listen to him throughout his three campaigns, you can depend on him wanting to spend more money on the military. you can. you can depend on him more recently to at least want to begin the so-called pivot to china. right. it's a part of why he wants to, you know, supposedly reduce our commitments in europe and the middle east because we have this looming chinese threat and what republicans and pentagon watchers are telling me is that they don't actually know if any of that is true. they think it's possible that the president may be gearing up for defense cuts. they think it's possible that instead of pivoting resources to china, that he may want to set up the united states to sort of

be a more of a regional power that accepts chinese hegemony in the asian pacific. and again, the key words here are might and may, because nobody really knows. and there's just so much indecision about this coming from the white house. you know, the thing about trump and the way he operates, which gives him some political leeway here, is he says things that many americans feel, even if we complain that he exaggerates or says things that aren't true. because whether you talk to democrats or republicans across the country, they will tell you that they think the government spends money in ways it shouldn't, and therefore it's hurting the ways it's able to spend money in the ways they want it to. and so when you're talking about ways for democrats to push back on this, you can't get caught up in defending the government. you need to

understand that people are uneasy about how the government operates and focus on making the government work better. nobody likes the irs, for example, joe. nobody. you know that. i know that if you defend the idea that the irs is getting cut, people are going to fall asleep. if you tell them your refund checks may not show up, then they're going to stand up and pay attention. and i think what what republicans are trying to grapple with here is how do they go along with somebody like elon musk, who's very popular with the republican base, who's very popular with republican voters, who's more well known even than vice president jd vance, without allowing the department of government efficiency cuts to blow back on them just in time for the 2026 midterm elections. >> and you hit on something there, david, that we're watching from democrats. they're trying to make this as human a story as possible, bringing these folks as guests to the joint address, highlighting what's happening in their own communities. i will say, mika,

even just last night, congressman pat ryan, who's from a district in the upstate area of new york, was spotlighting a cut that is hitting in his district people who receive hud. hud subsidies for some of their housing are now being kicked out. some of them, according to a local news report, are veterans. those are exactly the kinds of stories that lawmakers are going to try to spotlight. and even just this morning, a democratic strategist who was on my show said they are starting to field phone calls in the district and in other campaign areas of veterans, of people who have lost their jobs saying, hey, i'm not just mad enough about this, that i want to go to a town hall and talk about it. i want to run for congress. i want to come to washington and be part of the way to stop it. and so, mika, this is going to be one of the crosscurrents that republicans have to be aware of, but then also that democrats could potentially try to take advantage of. it's a long road to the midterms, but that's what they're looking towards. >> coming up, one of our next guests won an oscar for his documentary about the war in vietnam. now errol morris has a

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>> i can feel the winds of change. >> we're marching today to dramatize to the nation. dramatize to the of citizens of alabama, but particularly here in the black belt area, denied the right to vote. and we intend to march to montgomery to present some grievance to governor george wallace. >> mr. williams. >> what are you. >> going to do if you get stopped? >> what are we going to do if we get stuck? but we hope we all get stuck, and if we get stopped, we go stand. >> there. >> and try to negotiate and talk them into letting us go ahead to montgomery. >> we were. >> so. >> peaceful. >> so quiet. no one saying. >> a word. >> we were beaten, tear gassed. some of us were left bloody

right here on this bridge. >> 17 of us were hospitalized. that day. >> but we never became bitter. >> or hostile. >> we kept. believing that the truth we stood for. >> would have. >> the. >> final say. >> that was the late congressman and civil rights hero john lewis, shown first accompanied by civil rights leader hosea williams, before, during and 50 years after the events of march 7th, 1965, in selma, alabama. the images of lewis and hundreds of others in the march being attacked on what is remembered as bloody sunday, were broadcast across the country, shocking the nation and helping shift public opinion in favor of the civil rights movement. let's bring in the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation, reverend al sharpton. he will be traveling to selma tomorrow to

commemorate the 60th anniversary of bloody sunday. but, reverend, today, where are we in the journey? >> well, we are in serious question about the journey because we're seeing states all over this country change a lot of their voting laws. we're seeing a lot of places where voting rights are being changed in terms of easy access to early voting, or people cannot even get water online. so there's been a concerted effort to undo the right to vote. in 1965, when there was the voting rights act that followed the bloody sunday, the story was often told to those of us who were too young to have been there on that original march, how, when lyndon johnson, as president, signed the civil rights act, doctor king said to him, now we need a voting rights act. and president

johnson said, well, martin, i've used all my power. i can't get a voting rights act. and when they left the white house, andrew young with doctor king, who was an aide to doctor king andrew young, said, you heard what the president said, doctor king, he said he doesn't have the power. what are we going to do now? and doctor king said, well, i guess we're going back south and get him some power. and that led to the selma march to dramatize the need to vote. when they marched that sunday, they had no idea the troopers would do what they did. they were planning a ten day march, and in fact, they were tear gassed. they were beaten. amelia boynton, who had brought them to selma, tear gas. and the drama of that being televised, outraged americans and led to the civil rights act. so every year people have gone back and reenacted that march. i've been there the last 25 years as i've been old enough

and out front in civil rights, and on this 60th occasion, i think about the progress that has been made and the threat, the progress is, as you show, i marched across that bridge with the first black president during the first during the 50th anniversary, now in the 60th anniversary, we're facing a president that, in our judgment, is hostile to those rights. >> coming up, one of our next guests served as ukraine's minister of defense. we'll talk about russia's ongoing invasion and president trump's pivot to and president trump's pivot to putin. when morn experience advanced technology in the buick envision. ♪♪ equipped with the largest-in-class ultrawide 30-inch diagonal display and google built-in compatibility, innovation is at your fingertips. buick. exceptional by design. let's get started. buick. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. but i'm done struggling. now i sleep with inspire.

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for your own little bundle. >> of weird. by olly. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government now.

>> can discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> we are all watching. >> and waiting to see who. >> is. >> going to hold the line. >> don't miss the weekends, saturday and. >> sunday mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> all of this can be overwhelming, but it is important to remember there are still checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now, and it is really important to pay attention to it, but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try to remember we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun. >> naples. >> everything is life here. it's a city. >> of transformation. >> every turn. >> is full of history, color. >> and surprise.

>> festa. >> la festa. >> della vita. >> but also darkness. >> the story of la citta di napoli. molti ferite. >> stato memento. >> della. mia vita. >> volevo scappare. >> naples can be rough and raw. >> and organized crime. >> can be shockingly violent. >> do you think you'll get your life back? >> today we restarted it by lottery. >> that was. >> a look. >> at the new. >> documentary titled poso. entrare an ode to naples. the film takes a look at the story of the southern italian city from the numerous conquests in its 3000 year history to today's vibrant culture and improving record on crime. and the documentary's director, trudie styler, joins us now. thank you so much for being here. my first question is simply what drew you to this project? why naples? >> why naples? well. >> i've had a. >> very.

>> long relationship. with italy, going back to the 80s. >> when. >> i was. >> an actress. >> working in. >> rome. >> going to me. >> having a child in italy in 1990, going to. >> owning and with my. >> husband, staying. a vineyard and winery in tuscany, knowing the south in that i know its islands. >> very well. >> capri, ischia. >> and i had never been to naples either. >> so when i. >> was offered. >> by rai, the state television of italy, to make a. documentary about. >> naples. >> i jumped at the chance because i wanted to see with my own eyes this city that is usually and often ignored by the many people who pass through it, passed by it, but never actually go in there. >> why do you think naples is ignored? >> why is it ignored? i think it's ignored because, you know, it has these tropes. dangerous.

why? dangerous. it's had a history of hundreds of years of the camorra really dominating the city, and it's known to be quite dirty. you you hear a lot of chatter about. >> you. >> know, dustbins overflowing and all of that. as if that was enough to really put one off. you could also say the same is true of some of our cities in the us. >> so i. >> think i wanted to really see for myself and talk to. >> the locals. >> with, you know, what their own idea of their city was. and really get their local politics from them. >> you attack. >> italy is a country of many. >> things, but food is. >> is one of the big ones. >> naples has a different kind of palate. >> than. >> other parts. >> of italy. >> different foods different. so can you talk. >> to us a little. >> bit. >> about that? well. >> i think it's you. >> know, again, there are. >> sort of like this cliche of, oh, they only eat great pizza in naples, but the, the, the secret

of the food in naples in its enriched soil. >> why is. >> it enriched? because of the volcanic soil. and there you will never have a bad tomato. heirloom tomato. there's great. you'll never have bad mozzarella. because the soil is so enriched. and you'll see in the documentary, there's an organic farmer that i talk to that is really saying that, you know, some of the food is so rich that even in the summer, with the heat and the soil, there's tomatoes are so sweet that they they taste like honey. >> so that. >> farmer, one of. the characters in the documentary who bring naples to life and help us discover beyond those tropes you mentioned, one of the others you. feature is a parish. >> priest. >> and they have, of course, the church has such. >> influence in the. >> city. >> to this day. tell us a little bit about him. >> well, i. wanted to when i

started to learn more about naples, go to one of the, you know, the most, sort of like edgy or dangerous so-called dangerous places. and there's a parish priest called antonio loffredo, don antonio loffredo, and he had five churches, and he just. doesn't have his churches open for worship. he has them open and available for those who want to come in to, and largely for the kids to come to learn to play instruments, to have cinema in their lives, theater. but all these things that are much more positive than to be enticed into crime by the local camorra, who are the organized crime organization. >> all right. well, the new. >> documentary posso. entrar an ode to naples, streaming now on hulu. director trudie styler, thank. >> you so much for. >> being here. >> thanks very. much for having me today. >> and we'll be right. back with >> and we'll be right. back with more morning joe. tap into etsy

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>> canada is no. >> longer selling. >> bottles of jack daniels. >> fireball and tito's vodka, or as democrats. >> are currently calling it, breakfast. >> with trump's constant. back and forth. americans don't know if our economy is. >> open or. totally shut. it's like the whole country. >> is a toys r us. >> we're out. >> of business. no. >> we're. >> back over. >> number one. oh, we're out of business. okay. >> the toys. >> r us joke. okay. >> hey, welcome back to the fourth hour of morning joe. it's 6 a.m. on the west coast. and two a way to dial up that shot. instead of, like, the entrance to lax. that is a that is a. what are we looking at here, tj? i know our west coast viewers know, but where. >> are we? that's the. >> l.a. skyline.

>> yeah. >> dude, i know it's la skyline. >> that's all i know. >> something like a little. more specific. well, we will find out our la. if you're watching in la, please email us and let us know exactly the view here. welcome back to morning joe. it's so good to have you here. i'd like to keep talking about skylines across america, but we've got breaking news, john. breaking economic news. and, you know, it's about what? it's about what was expected. the february jobs report was released minutes ago, and it showed the us added 151,000 jobs last month, less than economists expected. meanwhile, the unemployment rate ticked up to 4.1%. we're going to be talking to andrew ross sorkin in just a few minutes to break these numbers down. but john, here's an example. these numbers, like you can't win for losing. you can't lose for winning. right. so the numbers were a little bit down. right. which could possibly mean we're moving

closer to a recession. at the same time, if those numbers had been too hot, if we'd been in the two hundreds or god help us, even in the three hundreds, everybody would be talking about interest rates exploding. so this may be part of what we've been talking about for about a year now. that soft landing, it ain't 171,000. it's 150,000. but that doesn't mean the economy is so hot that that we're going to have to keep interest rates high. maybe. who knows if these numbers keep coming down a little bit. and again, bad news, good news. maybe those interest rates will be able to go down by a quarter point or a half point coming up. >> yeah a mixed. >> bag to be sure. and we'll get some expert analysis from andrew ross sorkin. we should note, though, that the new york times has a really good piece this morning about just how strong the economy was that donald trump inherited on january 20th,

and how the. >> outlook does appear. >> much gloomier now, even setting aside the jobs number, the idea about the uncertainty because. >> of because. >> of the. tariffs and some of his other economic policies, inflation, cost of prices and the like, that that that economists are. >> a. >> little more. >> pessimistic now. >> than. >> they were a few months ago. and this new jobs number, just out a few moments ago, comes as president trump does appear to be somewhat limiting the power of elon musk and his doge team within the federal government, saying that cabinet secretaries are the ones who need to drive any sort. of firings. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander brings us the latest. two weeks after elon musk wielded that chainsaw, boasting about his efforts to slash the federal workforce, president trump is urging his team to use a more targeted tool going forward on social media posting. they can be very precise as to who will remain and who will go. we say the scalpel rather than the hatchet. the president, speaking in the

oval office after privately delivering those marching orders to musk and members of his cabinet. >> i don't want to. see a big cut where a. >> lot of good people. >> are cut. >> i want the cabinet members to keep the good people. >> president trump making clear to those cabinet members that they are in charge of layoffs at their departments, not musk, though he's welcome to make recommendations. >> if they can cut. >> it's better. >> and if they don't cut, then elon will do the cutting. >> this is. >> the chainsaw for bureaucracy. >> critics say the department of government efficiencies cuts have been chaotic and haphazard on multiple occasions, forcing the administration to rehire employees they just fired. it comes as the president is looking to abolish the department of education that would fulfill a campaign promise, but would also require approval from congress. >> well, i want to just do it. i mean, we're starting the process. >> we're trying. >> to get the schools back into the states. >> the nation's largest teachers union, writing trump and musk have aimed their wrecking ball at public schools to pay for tax

handouts for billionaires. staffers at the department of veterans affairs are also bracing for sweeping cuts, after va secretary doug collins vowed to eliminate 15% of the workforce. as many as 80,000 employees, a move critics argue will hurt veterans the most. alyssa ellman, a disabled army vet who served in afghanistan, was laid off from her va job in buffalo this week. >> i don't think that. letting go people who. are actively supporting veterans and doing the actual work on the ground is a great idea. it makes me feel like maybe we've been lied. >> to. >> not a great idea. boy, and let me tell you, when you start talking about massive va cuts, i mean, the va that was i mean, it's a tough enough bureaucracy for our veterans to deal with, as is. and then you start talking about massive cuts that leads nowhere. good for our

veterans who have fought for this country, who have supported this country, who've defended this country through the years. let's bring in right now, senior political columnist for politico. we've got jay martin. jonathan martin, also white house bureau chief for politico, dasha burns i will note dasha not wearing a bow tie today, but she is coauthoring new reporting on donald trump putting new limits on elon musk. jay martin, since you've got the bow tie, you got to go to you first. i mean, i'm i'm looking at the rules here and that's what the rule book says. so i got to follow the rule book. and you actually, unlike me, you look like you know how to tie a bow tie. can i ever get. i just i can never get it right. so many things i could just never get right, but i somehow i was still unprepared. >> for this. >> political party. >> yes, exactly. exactly. so? so, jonathan, you look back in

the history, political history, and you got you got some images that just didn't didn't age well. you remember george h.w. bush, george h.w. bush looking at his watch during the debate. 92 really? well, yeah. 92. that didn't work well. michael dukakis with a helmet on in the tank. good man. both of those good men didn't work well. yeah. elon musk with that chainsaw. this is the chainsaw of bureaucracy. at a time when there are faa cuts, at a time when they're cutting the very people that are trying to stop the bird flu from being a pandemic. at the same time, they are cutting people that were ensuring the safety of our nuclear arsenal. we could go on and on, but you got to say, i got a sense yesterday, you tell me when donald trump started talking about, hey, we're going to let the cabinet agencies take care of this, who's fired, who's not fired. and we want to keep

the good people. it seems to me you never know exactly what's going to happen, but it looks like phase one, the shock and awe phase. and we don't care who's fired. we don't care how much it damages american security. we just want the headlines. looks like we may be moving to phase two of that. what do you think? it certainly. >> has that air. >> props to. >> my colleague. >> kyle cheney for. >> their. >> scoop yesterday about. >> that, that. >> hastily convened, as we say in the. news business cabinet meeting where trump laid down the law. if we're talking about metaphors, let's. >> consider the. two cutting. >> tools of the last two weeks. you had elon musk. >> joe wielding. >> the chainsaw at cpac. and then yesterday, donald trump uses the word scalpel. well, i'm not a doctor, but there's a. >> big difference. >> between a chainsaw. >> and a scalpel. >> and i think that. what trump. >> is. >> trying to convey to elon and

everybody. >> else. >> is we're. >> going from the chainsaw phase to the scalpel phase. >> because a lot. >> of. >> americans prefer the scalpel politically. >> than the chainsaw. well, you just want to make sure you're getting the right people. first of all, a lot of blowback. jonathan lamir on the number of veterans being fired. and that blowback is coming in town hall meetings from veterans. it's coming on fox news with hosts of popular shows on fox news in primetime saying, hey, we got to stop firing the veterans. don't fire the veterans. so you have that blowback and you also you've just got you've got other pushback on on just how wide and indiscriminate these cuts are and the growing realization that the federal workforce that only makes up 5% of our budget, the other 95% goes to other things. and as we've said before, about

90% of that goes for medicare and medicaid, social security, interest on the debt. and the defense department, that's it. >> yeah. >> i'm also told that from west wing advisors that trump, somewhat predictably, was really concerned about how this was all playing out in the media. he didn't like the tv coverage, particularly the last couple of days, about the cuts to veterans affairs. he's very sensitive, believes that veterans largely support him, and didn't want to be seen as turning his back on them. so, dasha, tell us more about what led to this. jay mart's words hastily convened meeting yesterday. and also, what do we think from your reporting. >> the future. >> of doge looks like because it's certainly. not gone, but maybe limited. >> yeah, no, musk. >> is not going anywhere any time soon. >> all of my sources indicated that and look. >> hastily convened. >> like an intervention style. >> i mean, president. >> trump, it's significant that he called. >> folks up the night. before saying, come. >> to the white house. >> cabinet secretaries and musk.

>> let's all get. >> in a room, and i'm going to make something clear. >> to you guys. >> my sources say. >> it was his idea. it was his orchestration. he wanted. >> to make sure the message. >> was delivered directly. >> from him. >> this is. >> the first. >> time that. >> he's really significantly. >> intervened in doge. >> and my sources tell me that actually. senator thune coming out and saying and they have a really. >> good relationship, by the way. >> and trump, from everything i'm hearing, thune. >> coming out and. >> saying, hey. >> we. >> confirmed these cabinet. >> secretaries, they. >> are now in place. >> these are people we. >> approved of. they should be making. >> these decisions. >> that was. >> kind of. >> the straw that broke the camel's back. as all of. the pressure cooker was. starting to build up. >> between those. >> town halls. the calls he was. >> getting from lawmakers. >> and cabinet secretaries. >> and thune saying. >> that he felt like he really needed to take it into. >> his own hands. >> yeah, that is fascinating. we'll talk some more about this. but right now, let's bring in co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and new york times columnist

andrew ross sorkin with the breaking news. breaking news is he's not wearing a bow tie like jay mohr. do you ever have you ever done that? look, can we show jay martin the bow tie? have you ever done this thing? it's looking good. the bow ties looking good, isn't it? you know. i, i. >> went to university wardrobe. >> for this show. >> no. >> no, no, we don't know. i mean, jay, jay. mark. you know, i went to hampden-sydney in virginia. you know, they teach you how to tie a bow tie in virginia, you know? come on, joe, of course, a lot of guys at the university of alabama wearing the bow ties, too. i just again, it just was always never quite got it quite right. but anyway, we'll move on now to i guess news if we have to though i do like talking about jay mohr satire. so andrew, you know, it's a it's a funny business. you're in sometimes bad news is good news. good news is bad news. look at the 151,000. i'm thinking maybe that gives jay powell a little

operating space. you know, if it had come in at 250,000 jobs, everybody would be saying, oh my god, he's going to have to raise interest rates. but does this does this kind. does this give jay powell and the fed maybe an opportunity to look at a, you know, quarter percent cut coming up in a couple of months? i think this just gives him time. i think this is a fine news. you know whether you want to put it on trump or you want to put it on biden, i think this is just fine news. i think 150,000 jobs, 151,000 jobs in this case is fine. news is a little bit of an uptick in unemployment. i think this is just everybody's biding their time to try to understand what the world really looks like over the next couple of months, given all the uncertainty that we have seen. in fact, you could argue that this is stronger in certain ways than maybe i had anticipated. and gives the administration even a little bit of room. we will see, you know,

a. lot of the stuff that doge has done and some of the other things are not really built into these numbers just yet, both in terms of government jobs that are going to be lost. and then, as we've talked about a lot on this broadcast, the uncertainty that's now emerged around tariffs, around whatever you think is going to happen later in the year around taxes, for example, hasn't really played out in terms of employment in terms of investment by companies. and those are numbers we're not going to see right now. so those are things we would see maybe at the earliest next month, but actually more likely into into april, may and june before we really have a sense of what that uncertainty has wrought. if it's wrought anything. yeah. you know, we had new york times, tom friedman on who said, hey, listen, tariffs on a lot of china goods. it's a great idea. china's been taking advantage of us for years. he, of course, took exception with canada, with mexico, as many others have too. i suspect that there is going to be support for continued tariffs on on china. i

do wonder, though, at what point do do the threats to canada and mexico end up just being seen as threats? because we've had we've had once again, you know, the threat. and then he pulls back threat. now he's pulled back until april. i don't think anybody's wanting those tariffs. hardly anybody's wanting those tariffs on mexico and canada. but at the same time i'm wondering at what point is it just seen as a threat and little more than that. well, i don't know. and i think it's possible this could be an ongoing threat. but the ongoing threat unto itself, whether they get put on, taken off, what have you, doesn't do any great help to the business community in terms of investment in the united states, because you don't know what's going to happen. and there's sort of a very interesting sort of behavioral science psychological issue here, which is if you if the. >> tariffs are. >> here and they're here to

stay, you might actually bring back manufacturing to the us. but you have to affect to convince the business community that this isn't going anywhere. and therefore you got to bring it back. if you think that this is just a negotiating tool and that, you know, maybe they can put on now, but in six months later they're going to get taken off or they're going to change. i think if you're a business leader today, you say, i don't know if i'm going to go spend billions of dollars bringing investment back. let me ask you this question, though. i remember talking to jeff immelt a decade ago when he was running ge and he said, hey, we need to bring a lot. you know, the supply chain is too unpredictable. we need a lot to bring a lot of manufacturing back home. i mean, it's easier said than done. we live in this extraordinarily complicated world. again, friedman talking about, you know, 35% of parts created in america, but other parts of a ford f-150 created all over the world. you could say that about an iphone. you could say that about a laptop.

you could say that about just about anything that we make. i mean, i understand in theory it's a great idea to set up tariffs, bring manufacturing back to the united states, and everybody's happy. but regardless of the fact, you know, i know scott besson said, hey, low prices are not the right of americans. don't tell americans that low consumer prices aren't their god given right, because they're used to it and they're not going to give it away. so i guess the question is, is it possible to get from where we are now to where donald trump wants to be, because it's going to cause a hell of a lot of pain in between? well, i think that transition, that is the question. and to the extent from a political perspective that you think the president cares about the midterms, cares about what you think ultimately does happen to the stock market, even though i think right now they're saying, please, you know, don't use that as the barometer. and by the way, there have been times over the years

where we've talked about the economy and there's been a disconnect between the stock market and the economy. and we said, look at the real economy. so i don't want to overstate the case, but i do think, you know, 18 months from now he's going to be looking depending on the pain of these tariffs at a challenged situation. is he going to accept that challenge and say that he's willing to live through that pain because he believes that there's a rainbow on the other side? i don't know. now you are seeing some companies, by the way, apple and others, and not only have they brought some business back to the us, they've started to move things around. right. they're starting to manufacture in india. they're starting to manufacture in vietnam. so it is doable. but those are big investments. and they and i think those ceos want certainty to know what's about to happen next. and obviously right now they don't have those answers. big investment. and it takes a lot of time. it takes more than four years. it takes more than any any presidential term i guess. so that's the big question here. all right. so listen one final question. people that know elon musk well

say he doesn't care about the money when he's at tesla and he's creating it. he's in the same dirty sweatshirt for two weeks. he's sleeping in his office. he just he doesn't care about money. and if that's the case, then he doesn't care that tesla's stock has gone down by one third over the past month. my question is, does he care that i know, i know it went went way up after donald trump got elected. but does he care that tesla's stock is down a third over the past month? do his shareholders care? are there people that are starting to say, hey, okay, great. we love that you're playing around with chainsaws and ddos and everything, but you probably need to come back and mind the store because we are bleeding out in europe right now, and the stock looks like it's going straight down. i think there's a nuance in this question about whether elon musk cares about

money. you may not believe this. i don't know if he cares about money per se for himself, as in that he wants to use said money to buy fancy homes and do fancy things. i don't think that's what he wants money for. you know, i've talked to him several times and had many interviews with him over the years. he talks about wanting that money so that he can build spaceships that go to mars, that he wants to take those profits and use it for that purpose. i believe that i believe he is genuine in that is what he wants the money for. i do think that, by the way, andrew, i don't mean to interrupt you, but can you underline this because people that know him say, if you understand everything that he's doing, it all ends up on mars. this. yes. everything. his life mission is to get to mars. is it not? interplanetary planet, planetary development. that's what he wants to do. that's what he says that his life is about.

and tesla is a piece of that puzzle. yes, i do believe. >> he looks at the stock price. >> i do believe. >> he cares about the stock price. the shareholders believe that the stock price obviously. >> has come under pressure. they care about it. and all of these businesses are component parts of each other. so to the extent that he cares about x, formerly twitter and now x i, which of course is his ai company, that ai company by the way, now may ultimately power or be powered by parts of tesla and what they're doing with ai. and so all of these things are interrelated to each other. so to the yes, i think there is an expectation that he does care about the price, and therefore he will care about trying to improve that business. all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, as always, thank you so much. stay tuned for andrew and me doing a podcast on the nfl. we're not sure when, where, how

or why, but we really want to do it. jonathan martin let you jump in here? yeah. where are we? where are we right now on doge. we talked about that that that meeting yesterday. where do you sense we're going first of all with doge and then secondly with with the republicans attempt to pass reconciliation, which is man. doge is just man. that's like the warm up act to slashing medicaid, which of course will be devastating for rural america, devastating for red state america. >> and in. >> both cases, joe. >> i'm reminded. of a. >> great line from speaking of bow. >> ties. george f will. >> who has long said. >> his axiom. >> is that americans. >> are rhetorically. conservative but operationally liberal, which. >> is that. >> on paper. >> on paper, most. >> americans don't. >> want a big government. they would love. >> to cut the federal

government. >> six. >> ways from sunday. >> but when you start. >> talking about. >> actual jobs with real. >> people employed being thrown. >> into the snow. >> it's a. very different story. >> and you're talking about. vets and talking about medicaid funding. oh my god. >> katie, bar the door. it's a. >> very different story. >> so look, i. >> think on the doge on the. >> doge front and. >> the elon. >> front. >> the analogy. >> i. >> would use. >> is sort of the air slowly. >> coming out of the balloon. >> he's not. going to. >> pop the. >> balloon. >> but. >> i think that the. >> air will come. >> out here fairly, fairly rapidly. >> i think it's a more complicated question on reconciliation, joe, because i just don't know how they find. >> the revenue to pay for the trump. >> tax cut extension. plus the goodies he promised in 24 without touching medicaid. >> my guess. >> is they'll do a slimmed down, don't call it skinny, but. >> a slimmed down reconciliation. that's not ten years, five years, three. >> years to cheapen the cost of the tax cuts so. >> they can find payfors. >> i just. >> don't think they're going to be able to find money to. >> pay for those tax cuts over

a. >> ten year horizon. well, as matt, it is mathematically impossible to do that. and the republicans in congress, the ones who call themselves fiscal conservatives, actually know that george f will. by the way, i'm reminded of something that he wrote way back in the 1990s, and it really goes straight to what you said. he said. despite what people say about being conservative. he said, quote, we are all children of fdr now. and that really does go to the point where people will, you know, people will will talk rhetorically about balancing the budget, cutting waste, fraud and abuse, cutting washington, firing employees. but when the rubber hits the road, suddenly they see how it's impacting their lives, their communities lives. and there's that pushback. so i'll ask you just what i asked j. mart if they're having trouble with doge and

something that's about 5% of the budget, what are they going to do when they have to slash medicaid to pay for these tax cuts? >> yeah, i mean, it's a pickle like look. and part of that is because they. >> have expanded. >> their coalition. >> right. >> the working class is now largely for. >> for republicans. >> trump did that. they've celebrated that. but now it means that the policy really does impact. those folks. you know, what's what's the. >> expression when someone has a. >> cold, the rest of the country has the flu. like when washington gets a cold, it's those folks that that the working class and. in michigan and in pennsylvania that that gets the flu. and when you have. >> someone like steve. >> bannon in the war room, which the white house does listen to out there saying, hey, what. >> is going on here? >> why are we forgetting that maga base, the populist nationalist base that brought trump to where he. >> is when. >> we're talking about. this one

big. beautiful bill? that's that's. >> a serious. >> serious concern. >> and when it. comes to. >> to doge. and really all of this, joe, you talked about. >> this being. >> phase two. >> the big question for me is how many phases are there. >> going to be? because like i said. >> musk isn't going anywhere anytime soon. >> and how long is it going to take to. actually clarify all of this? and how much are these cabinet secretaries still going to feel like, okay, if musk recommends something, do we need to do it if we defy him, is this going to cause a problem between us and the boss? so there are a lot of questions still to be answered, but at the at the end of the day, it is the. fundamental base of maga that. >> is going to be largely. >> impacted by, by so much of this conversation that that we're having right now. >> and joe, just really fast. >> if i could jump in here. look, i think. part of. >> elon's challenge. is he's not popular. >> and trump, as we know, cares so much about polling and approval. and elon's numbers are much worse than trump's numbers.

and we know for sure that trump sees that in the data. >> yeah. and there's no question west wing aides tell me that the public. perception of all this is starting to weigh in on the oval office. and a final note about this, the negotiations coming up, the congressional budget office, of course, nonpartisan, said this week that house republicans cannot, in fact, cannot meet their own budget target necessary to pass trump's legislative agenda without making significant cuts to medicare and medicaid. the math simply doesn't work, cbo says so. senior political columnist for politico, jonathan martin and white house bureau chief for politico as well, dasha burns, thanks. to you both for being with us today. coming up next, senior white house and. >> ukraine officials are expected. >> to meet in saudi arabia next. >> week for. >> discussions about a potential cease fire with russia. we'll get the latest from. nbc's keir simmons live in moscow next. and also some new surprisingly. >> boy that is that is. >> oh, look. >> hey, hey. >> look at. >> that echo. >> that's echo park lake, isn't

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cleaner, and enjoy a spotless house for $19. >> welcome back. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy says that talks aimed at ending the war will be held next week in saudi arabia, between american and ukrainian officials. in a post on social media, zelenskyy revealed that he will travel to meet with the saudi crown prince on monday and that his team will then stay for meetings with their u.s. counterparts. russia not involved in these talks. president trump did say yesterday that, quote, a lot of progress has been made in recent days with both ukraine and russia. however, this just in. joe. a few moments ago, president trump took to truth social and i will simply read it

to you based on the fact that russia. >> is absolutely. >> pounding ukraine on. >> the. >> battlefield right now. >> and we should. >> note, there's been widespread attacks throughout ukraine in the last 24 or so hours. trump goes on to write, i am strongly considering large scale banking sanctions, other sanctions and tariffs on russia until. >> a. >> ceasefire and final settlement agreement on peace is reached. and he urges russia and ukraine to both. >> get to the. >> negotiating table before it is too late. so, joe, a rare moment, at least. >> publicly, of toughness. >> from trump himself against moscow. >> well, you know, this is fascinating. and of course, this follows again, we've talked about this, what happened during his first term where you would have donald trump saying things, whether it was in helsinki, answering the question that you asked or just making other, other statements or other tweets during his first term that would cause american allies great consternation, but then that would be followed up by some of the toughest sanctions from the

united states senate, the republicans in the united states senate. so let's let's see what happens in the coming days. let's bring in nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, live in moscow. keir, a lot to follow. obviously not just in the us and europe but in russia. what are you hearing there? >> well, joe, i think that. truth social post from. >> president trump. >> indicates something that he has. >> been signaling. i think actually, honestly for some. >> weeks. >> which is that. i think. >> the trump administration. >> is realizing. >> that negotiating. >> with the kremlin. is going. >> to be. >> a challenge. that's certainly the message that. >> we have received here in moscow. and joe. >> we traveled. >> eight miles. eight hours from. >> moscow to. >> kursk region. >> with the first us television. news team. to make. >> it to the russian controlled.

>> part of kursk. >> since the. >> ukrainians took some of that. that area. >> now. >> people may know. >> that kursk. >> is a place. >> that was a critical rallying point. >> back in february 20th, 2022, for. >> a massive. >> buildup of forces. >> along that border tanks, artillery and those tanks. >> and. >> artillery poured into ukraine's neighboring kharkiv region. we got there, and one of. >> the first things. >> that. >> happened was a. >> air raid siren, an airway air raid warning. i want you to. watch and take a listen. >> to follow. one of. a russian. >> message that's being broadcast. >> there is. >> attention. missile danger. >> proceed to shelter. what's interesting is look at those civilians. that car. just

walking as if nothing. >> is happening. >> the message is that war in that part of russia has just been become part of normal life. we talked to people there. >> and we. >> wanted to. >> ask them. >> whether president. >> trump is right to say that russia is ready for peace. we spoke to. >> the mayor in a town. >> called rylsk, who you, which. >> you saw. >> just there in those pictures. >> he said, okay. >> yeah, we want peace. >> but we. >> must also liberate our territory. he said another 39 year old construction worker we spoke to said everything rests on zelenskyy. >> not on putin. >> he wasn't prepared to accept in any way that putin was responsible for the invasion of ukraine. now, of course, there is. draconian legislation here in russia. >> that means. >> up to. 15 years jail for people criticizing the russian army. but what i think all of that tells you, and we've reported out plenty more on this, is actually how challenging it. >> is.

>> going to be to. >> get to a ceasefire because of places like kursk. can we had the opportunity to interview the spokeswoman for the russian foreign ministry. and again, despite. president trump saying that he wants a ceasefire fast, she said, okay, they're not. >> in a hurry. >> so how how quickly. should we expect there to be a. >> you. >> good in math? it depends on the speed. >> how quickly? >> okay, but how quickly. >> should we expect there to. >> be a summit. >> if there is one between. >> president trump and president putin? how soon do. >> you think that might happen? >> it depends on the both sides and the speed of the both sides. >> is russia. >> in. >> a hurry? >> we are not in a hurry, but we are ready. >> jonathan. >> my understanding from talking to experts here in russia who know the kremlin well is that.

president putin and the kremlin are saying to the trump administration, okay, yeah, we want a meeting. but first we want to know what you're going to bring to the table, what you're potentially going to agree to. jonathan. >> nbc's keir simmons live from moscow. thank you so much for that report. joining us now live from kyiv is former defense minister of ukraine andriy zagorodnyuk. he is now the chair of the center of defense strategies, as well as a distinguished fellow at the atlantic council. mister, mister, thank you so much for being here with us. you recently wrote a piece for foreign affairs titled ukraine without america. tell us what you mean and what got us to this point. >> well, we. >> we are. >> quite concerned about the situation when ukraine has been several times told that it has no leverage in this, in these negotiations. and basically it has to take the any deal on the table. and that's of course, is

a is a big issue for us. i've written this note because i think that ukraine is without america. first of all, we distinguish here the current white house policy and strategy with the america in total, because we have enormous support from americans, military civilians who constantly write us and text us and say that they still support ukraine and they understand who started the war. and they're extremely concerned about these negotiations and how the cease fire will be done and so on. but what we try to say is that we need to be together. we need to. >> put all these. >> disputes between the governments aside, and we need to find a very constructive, you know, solutions to this. and i'm very happy that our governments are going to meet in the in the saudi. >> and they. >> would they would have a chance. >> to. >> you know, to, to discuss all that and hopefully find a resolution. so let's. talk about that these, these, these upcoming negotiations. next set will be with ukrainian officials and american counterparts. we

know a few weeks ago, also in saudi arabia, u.s. officials met with the russians. what are some of the things that you think the government needs to your government needs to say here to the u.s. terms that we find agreeable to the next stage of these talks with russia, but also especially in the wake of what was that tough meeting in the oval office between president zelensky and president trump. right. >> so putting all the. >> emotions aside, we have several real. >> questions on the table. >> and the. main one is that the ceasefire is as worse as much as it's protected. so it needs to be protected. ukraine wants peace, probably more than any nation right now in the world. nobody can tell us about the value of the. >> peace. >> because we. >> have a real alarms. literally every night, a drones. >> and. >> rockets flying every night, including the last night. >> and all. >> around the country, including in kyiv and pretty much everywhere. so it's. not like someone needs to convince ukraine that peace is a good thing. i mean, frankly speaking, people. >> take it here.

>> very difficult. >> when. >> some are saying that. >> because we actually know that. please come. >> and see, you know. but but peace is only is only worth something if it's protected. because if it's not protected. then we will have a situation that russia may be planning for breaching the ceasefire, as it did many times before. that's not the first ceasefire between ukraine and russia, and the war started in 2014 and they breached it many, many times. but also russia right now is quite exhausted and it's not doing very well there. they have problems with economy. they have severe problems with military. then they lost close to 900,000 people right now. >> of. >> wounded and killed and so and so on and so on. so they need a recovery time if they because. >> we also don't. >> see any. >> single signal. >> that russia strategy. >> has changed. >> they still are very hostile. >> against ukraine. >> they they. obviously don't recognize any liability, any responsibility for the what they've. done for the people they killed, cities they destroyed and so on. you see this on the screen right now,

and that's all around about 20% of ukrainian land, but also the rest. >> 80 is. >> also harmed by rocket strikes, which we see on the on a daily basis, as i said. so no responsibility for that, no recognition. and obviously they don't they deny that they. started it even, you know, and. >> they're saying about some root. >> cause problems. >> about some, some other things. >> so. >> we clearly understand the strategy. >> is still there. the hatred to ukraine. >> is. >> still there. they want to prevent. ukraine from becoming. >> a successful. >> western nations, which we. >> all want. >> and they so they can restart the war, they can recover, they can rebuild and recover. >> so what we. >> need. >> to do. >> is we need to create the mechanism, what we call security guarantees. or security arrangements, which would prevent them from. doing that. >> and that's the key. >> absolutely key things that the people can actually start rebuilding investments and so on and. >> so on. >> it will. >> certainly be carefully covering those. talks next week scheduled for saudi arabia. the new piece for foreign affairs is available to read online now. former defense minister of ukraine andriy zagorodnyuk,

thank you so much, sir, for joining us this morning. still ahead here, we'll take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including the key monthly payment that americans are behind on at record levels. we'll tell you. >> what that is. >> morning, joe. we'll be. >> right back. >> safelite repair safelite replace. >> nobody likes a cracked windshield. >> but at. >> least. >> you can go to safelite. com and. >> schedule a fix in minutes. >> can't confirm. very easy. >> safelite can come to. >> you for free. and our highly trained. >> techs can replace your windshield. >> right at your home. >> safelite repair safelite replace. replace. >> go if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor.

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>> the canary in. >> the coal mine. >> and said. >> problems with auto loans are likely to spread. >> to other. >> sectors of the economy. >> you know, you know, john, we keep hearing again a lot of canaries in the coal mine. maybe they are, maybe they aren't. this certainly is a concern. you also see credit card debt. i've seen some reports of that going up. also savings going down the u.s. savings rate. remember how low it was before the 2008 crash compared to, say, germany and other countries? our savings rate now once again, low people, people seem to be extended out. right now there's a question on of how much consumerism can drive this economy over the next six months to a year. >> yeah, we're certainly not. >> predicting a bubble burst. >> or. >> crash like that. but there are some eerie parallels that, of course. >> will be. >> watching in the weeks and months ahead. coming up next here on morning joe, we'll dive into a new documentary. that explores the manson murders and

whether there was. any connection. >> to. >> the cia. academy award winning director and producer of the film, the legendary errol morris. will be live in studio to discuss what he uncovered. that's next on morning joe. >> used car shopping. >> two rows. two dogs. i'm sold. >> whoa whoa whoa. let's us. >> for the facts. >> whoa! >> like nearly half of all used cars, this puppy has been in an accident. but carfax.com shows how an accident impacts price. so you don't have to overpay. unpause. whoa! >> whoa! >> wow. this is cool. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> sorry. they pulle it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh!

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>> manson became exactly what the cia was trying to create. >> well, you're suggesting manson was. >> a puppet. >> well, that. >> was a look at the new netflix documentary, chaos the manson murders. the film, directed by academy award winning filmmaker errol morris, is based on the book titled chaos. charles manson, the cia and the secret history of the 60s. like the book, morris's film explores whether charles manson had any connection to the central intelligence agency. specifically, it's documented mind control and domestic surveillance programs, respectively, known as mkultra and chaos. and errol morris joins us now. he also serves as a producer on the project. errol, thank you so much for being here. we really appreciate it. >> thank you for. >> having me here. >> let's just start with how you got involved. with this project. what what drew you to. >> this story?

>> one of the most. famous true. >> crime stories. >> in american history. you don't. >> really. have to be drawn. to it. everybody knows about it. >> and everybody. >> i can't say everybody, but nearly. everybody is. curious about it. >> so what's the challenge then, is you're right. it's such a widely known story. what's the challenge then, in trying to find something new to say about it? >> there are many. >> new things. >> to say. >> about it. that's one of. >> the fascinating. things about true crime. >> you're turning over rocks and finding all kinds of insects scurrying around. >> the mkultra. >> part. >> of the story. >> tom o'neil, who wrote the book chaos. >> asked these questions there. how do you explain questions? >> how do you. >> explain the. fact that. his parole. officers were. >> aware that he was. >> committing crimes. >> but. >> did nothing?

>> was he. >> being protected? >> was he. >> working for the government? >> and tell. >> the viewers. >> a little bit now, if you will, just about a little more of these of these cia programs, how widespread were they? how credible do you find this? >> i made a whole netflix. >> series about. >> mkultra called wormwood. >> if there's a question, did. >> this exist? it did. >> the people. >> running mkultra. >> at the cia did their. >> level. >> headed best. >> to destroy. >> all evidence. >> of. their existence. >> like lifting. >> up a magic slate and. erasing everything. but they didn't. >> it's very. >> hard to. erase everything. >> there's always. >> little bits and pieces. >> of evidence left. did mkultra exist? >> yes. >> so beyond. >> that. >> the idea that that program did exist. what are some of the things you hope that viewers

take away from this documentary that they learned from it? >> i'd like them to enter into the mystery. i'd like them to think. about the. >> issues involved. >> with manson. was this. >> a government program? was he a programed. >> assassin or. >> if you. >> like. >> was just. >> this about. >> a group. >> of idiots. >> bumbling through crime. after crime? >> we should note. >> that the documentary was just recently named a new york times critics pick, and it is now streaming now on netflix. chaos. the manson murders. academy award winning director errol morris. errol, thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> and that does it. for us this morning. >> we'll see you right. >> back here monday at 6 a.m. eastern. ana cabrera picks up eastern. ana cabrera picks up our coverage after a struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1 and you can help take control of your symptoms, with vraylar.

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