heoped to protect other women by changing new jersey law to make rape by deception not just a crime of the heart, but a prosecutable offense. family and friends said that whatever happened in the new jersey courts, mischele lewis would have a bright future ahead of her, one she'd meet with arms and eyes wide open. she'll get her happily ever after. and she can rest knowing that, you know, will jordan is not going to have a happily ever after, not with her, anyway. and hopefully not with anybody ever again. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. [theme music] >> good morning and. >> welcome to. >> this saturday edition of morning joe. weekend. it was. >> yet. >> another relentlessly busy

week. let's get right to some. >> of the conversations. >> you might have missed. >> we spoke with the big three auto dealers. we are going to give a one month exemption on any autos coming through usmca. reciprocal tariffs will still go into effect on april 2nd, but at the request of the companies associated with usmca, the president is giving them an exemption. >> for one month. so they. are not at. >> an economic disadvantage. so the three companies that he spoke to are stellantis, ford and general motors. they requested the call. they made the. >> asked, and the. >> president is happy to do it. it's a one month exemption. >> so does he. >> expect them to be able to shift production within. >> a month? he told them that he. >> they should get on it. start investing, start moving shift production here to the united states. >> of america where they. >> will pay no tariff. that's the ultimate goal. >> meanwhile. >> the president is reportedly. considering exemptions for some agricultural goods. politico reports the administration is discussing. waiving the 25% duty

on some products, including canadian potash. >> a key. >> ingredient in fertilizer. >> republican lawmakers. began lobbying for. exemptions for that as well before. >> the tariffs went into effect tuesday, arguing. >> that supply. >> shortages or. price spikes will further drive up food prices. >> agriculture secretary. >> brooke rollins told bloomberg news, quote, everything is on the table and that specific exemptions and carve outs are still to be determined. the wall street journal. editorial board is reacting to these developments with a new piece entitled the trump tariff rollercoaster. it reads, quote, welcome to the trump tariff thrill ride where you never know. >> what's going. >> to happen. mr. trump originally justified. >> the. >> tariffs under an emergency law to combat the. alleged threat of fentanyl. but he claimed. tuesday the tariffs are needed because we pay subsidies to canada and mexico of hundreds of billions of. dollars and have

very large deficits with both of them. that sounds like white house protectionist in chief peter navarro. he and his boss love tariffs for their own sake. >> meanwhile. >> the tariff. >> barrage is causing economic. uncertainty and slowing investment. a real thrill a minute. steve rattner, you know. >> well you were. >> the car czar under. president obama. so if you could talk about what the uncertainty means for these industries, even beyond the car industry. >> businesses like all of us, has to always confront and deal with uncertainty. uncertainty is simply part of life, and part of being a good executive is you make choices. you weigh the pros, the cons, the likelihoods, the unlikelihoods, and then you make a decision. when you introduce something like haphazard government policy. on top of that, you're simply compounding the challenge for business to make the right decisions, to get cars to the

right places, to make the right kind of cars, to charge the right prices for them, and so on and so forth. and so all of what the president's been doing, where first you, you know, you run ten yards forward and then you go two yards back and then you go left and then you go right is simply introducing a level of uncertainty that's really hard for business. the car industry is particularly complicated because what most people perhaps don't know is that they don't simply make a car in mexico and bring it here. we make parts here sometimes that are sent to mexico. they do some stuff to it. it's called a subassembly. then it's sent back to the us. they do some more stuff to it. it goes back to mexico, then it goes into the car and then the car comes here. and the same thing happens with canada. and so because of nafta actually, which removed these tariff barriers, it allowed the car companies to produce the parts of the cars in the places where it was most efficient to produce them and assemble them in the places where it was most efficient to produce them. and now you put kind of a blockade

in a road. and so you have to go around in a different road, and it just makes it more complicated and obviously it makes it more expensive. the estimates are 7 to $10,000 per additional car. if and when all these tariffs go into effect. but this also obviouslyusiness wants from government. which is ironic, of course, because this administration said they were going to come in and really help business and get the country moving again and all that sort of stuff. >> to that point. jonathan, as we know, covering this man as a politician now for almost a decade. >> it's often the last person. >> he talked to on the phone with the ceo of a car company, calls him up, flatters him a little bit and say, hey, this is really going to hit us. >> it's going to hurt. >> american workers. it's going to raise prices for consumers.

can you give us a break? and then trump says, all right, give these. guys a break. >> how do you. read this. >> pause a one month pause. and we can talk to steve about what that means exactly. after a month. is this. him watching. >> the. >> stock market? is it him hearing from ceos? is it him worrying that, oh, maybe i jumped too far too fast? >> it's a little bit of. >> all. >> of that, willie, i'm told. so i spoke to some. >> people in. >> the trump orbit. >> yesterday within. >> the west. >> wing, who. >> they acknowledge that the stock market has. >> rattled them somewhat. that so many. >> of these. >> cable news networks have the little graphic in the corner there showing the. declines on wall street. over the last couple of days. >> it's been a pretty significant. sell off. and we know. >> that this. president in particular. sort of almost judges the health. >> of the economy. >> by the stock market. he's very quick to take credit. >> when it's doing well. >> and he tries not to talk about it publicly. >> when it's. >> not. doing well. >> but certainly there are some private anxieties. >> and to your point. >> a moment ago, exactly right. if he is susceptible to flattery, to lobbying efforts, there have been some. >> big businesses and. ceos who are making are making their case.

>> to him as to why. >> this is not necessarily. >> a good idea. we also heard katie in the last couple of days, some republicans willing to, shall we say. tentatively sound use their own voices to suggest. >> that, well. >> maybe these tariffs. aren't necessarily the best idea. >> we've had lawmakers. >> including some senators, asked for carveouts like, don't don't tariff these products because that would be. >> bad for. >> my constituents. >> we heard majority. >> leader thune. >> this earlier this week. >> say. >> expressed the hope that these tariffs. >> are temporary. >> sort of leaning into. >> the idea that they're they're just a negotiating tactic. >> and trump can get a couple of wins and then take them off again. >> but we also know that. >> this is something. >> he does believe in. >> and if he. >> stubbornly sticks with them for a while, i'm curious, what do you think republicans you speak to? could there be a louder chorus of voices. >> saying, you know. >> hey. >> we got to reconsider this. >> yeah. and there. >> was more tepid. >> applause to that bit of the address to congress. >> on tuesday. >> night than to other bits of the address to congress. so you can sense that republicans don't love this. >> of course.

>> lots of them are free market economists. they come from that old school of economics. they don't want their own constituents to be hit by more inflation. >> sam. >> what's it going to take to put it to you? because i'm. hearing you need. 8 to 10 republican senators really to be able to do anything in terms of criticism because they all. >> need air cover, right? >> they can't do it if there's. >> only 2. >> or. >> 3 of them, that's not. >> enough action. >> so the question is. >> you know, at what point. >> do any of these. >> policies and the tariffs. >> are. >> one of them? at what point do. >> any of these policies. >> hit consumers. >> enough voters. >> enough their voters enough that they would have. >> an interest in. >> sticking their heads. >> up against. >> above the parapet? >> i don't know, the stock market obviously, stumbling is a problem for them. i think we saw some pushback on the idea that they would reverse the chips act, which is a huge domestic manufacturing investment, which. >> a. >> number of them had signed on to and co-sponsored. and they want that money in their districts. but it's just these policies. >> and this governance. >> is structured. >> in a way that. >> makes it particularly difficult to put the genie back in the bottle. and by that, it's

just. >> the system. >> is ripe for corruption, right? if donald trump. >> can, on a whim. >> decide, you know. >> what, we're going to have an exemption. >> for this. >> because the first time. >> around. >> yes, of course, the farmers got bailed out the exemptions left and right. and really it's like, well, if you've called donald trump on the right moment or if you've. managed to score the right hit on fox and friends and he happened to see you, or if you've donated. >> to. >> his political action. >> committee. >> yeah, you can get a carve out. but it's. >> not. >> just the tariffs, right? i mean, this is the same exact situation. >> we're now seeing. >> with doge, in which elon musk goes to the hill yesterday. republicans complain about these cuts because. >> they're affecting their home districts. and elon says, well, you know what? call me and we can reverse. >> the cuts. >> so we. >> have a system in which. >> two individuals basically get to decide at a. whim that the policies that they're implementing can get reversed for the people that they like, and it doesn't work holistically. so if you're a business. >> that isn't in trump's favor, if you're a democratic congressman who doesn't. >> have. >> the elon. >> musk cell phone. >> you're out of luck. >> we have. >> lots more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend hour. morning joe weekend co(fisher investments) at fisher investments

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exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> and welcome back to morning joe weekend. let's pick up the conversation we were having just before that break. >> china is responding to president trump's. tariffs with a warning it is ready. it says, for. any type of war with the united states. that message, posted by the official account of the. >> chinese embassy in. >> the united states, following president trump's address to congress. >> on. >> tuesday, writing, quote, if war is what the u.s. wants, be it a tariff war, a trade war. >> or any. >> other type of war, we're ready to fight till the end, end quote. china announced retaliatory tariffs of up to 15% on u.s. farm products beginning on march 10th, after trump levied an. additional 10% tariffs on chinese imports. >> earlier this. >> week, defense secretary pete hegseth reacted to china's warning. >> during an. >> interview with fox news yesterday. >> well. >> we're we're prepared.

>> those who long for peace. >> must prepare for war. we are, we are. >> that's why. >> we're rebuilding our military. that's why we're reestablishing deterrence. >> and the warrior ethos. >> is. >> because we live in a dangerous world with powerful, ascendant countries with very different ideologies. >> china also is increasing defense spending by more than 7%. so. >> steve rattner. >> we can put the war talk, the actual fighting, talk to the side for just a second and focus on the trade piece of this, which is the retaliatory tariffs are also going to cripple american businesses. we heard from the kentucky bourbon distillery association yesterday as one example, saying we cannot afford as an industry to have these 25% tariffs coming back at us from canada and from mexico, where we sell so much of what we do, we're going to lose jobs. it's going to cost everyday. >> hardworking americans. >> their livelihoods. >> so what do you think is the. >> impact of those retaliatory tariffs, be it china, canada or mexico in response. >> to. >> president trump?

>> it's quite significant. willie. look, it is it is something you do have to acknowledge that we don't sell as much stuff to them as they sell to us. so there's more things we can put tariffs on and they can put we can put tariffs on them. they can put tariffs on. but that said there's plenty of damage they can do to us. agriculture is a good example. i'll show you some charts in a little bit about how much soybeans and corn we export versus how much we import. and there's and last time around the chinese did punish us pretty severely in terms of our agricultural exports. there's also things besides tariffs that they can do that chinese and chinese have been doing in terms of restricting the ability of american companies to do business there, in terms of restricting other ways in which we make money off of china. there's plenty of things these countries can do. and what i've seen, what i've noticed and what's been, i think, a little bit scary in a way, is that the canadians, the mexicans and the chinese are all basically

saying, we're not going to take this lying down and we're going to do whatever it takes to defend ourselves and, and our economies. and so this is this is bad. and look, we all trade when it occurs in a free and fair way, which it mostly did. contrary to what donald trump thinks is a positive for all sides. we get less expensive goods, they get jobs for their people, and it all works well. and to go down this rabbit hole of deglobalization where everybody pulls back is enormously costly to the economy, to our economy, to everybody's economy. it's going to raise prices significantly. it's going to cost us jobs in the end. and it's a it's a bad state of affairs for the world. >> yeah. and canada has said to. >> your point, they'll. >> keep their tariffs in. >> place as long as. >> any us tariffs are. >> in effect. and president. >> trump threatening. more retaliatory tariffs in the weeks ahead. and mika they just sort of adds up to this like this huge sense of real uncertainty. >> and unease. >> on the economy. >> because of these tariffs. >> that bellicose. rhetoric from

from. >> china. >> and also the. >> sense within. >> washington as to who even who. >> even will be able. >> to hang on to their. jobs and the. >> impact it will. >> have on constituents, whether. >> in red or blue states. >> uncertainty all around. >> and you have. to imagine, is that. >> the plan? >> just chaos and uncertainty. the department of veterans affairs plans to cut more than 80,000 jobs as part of the trump administration's scaling. back of the federal workforce. in a memo sent out on tuesday, the va's chief of staff outlined an agency wide reduction with a goal to, quote, resize and tailor. the workforce to the mission. it also says the va's objective is to return to its 2019 workforce. numbers of just under 400,000 employees, which means most of the additional staffing added under the biden administration to supplement veterans benefits under the pact

act could be eliminated. the trump administration has already fired more than 2400 employees at the department. of course, this impacting veterans, a federal civil service board is ordering the department of agriculture to rehire more than 5000 workers laid off as part of the trump administration's efforts to slash the federal workforce. the merit systems protection board issued the order after the office of special counsel found the agency acted illegally in firing probationary employees, who all received identical termination letters informing them that they've been let go based on their performance. this day means fired employees must be reinstated for at least the next 45 days, while an investigation continues. the ruling only affects the usda, but other agencies have carried out similar mass firings. of

probationary employees, meaning the order could have a wider impact. meanwhile, a federal judge has blocked the trump administration from carrying out steep cuts to research funding at the national institutes of health. the judge issued a nationwide preliminary injunction yesterday, arguing the funding cuts would cause irreparable. harm and chaos. this comes after nearly 2000 states filed lawsuits claiming the cuts were unlawful and would lead to layoffs and lab closures, and could endanger patients. sam, you've been digging into the brain drain from the federal government. depending on who's fired when. it does seem so sloppy and almost from tariffs to these cuts like self-sabotage. unless the plan is sort of to tank the economy and increase unemployment.

>> well, it's definitely sabotage. and i do. >> you. >> read the setbacks that the administration has suffered and people. >> might. >> say, well that's good, right. like in some of these cuts are. >> being reversed. >> these people are going to get jobs. but the idea that this hasn't had a profound destabilizing impact is just not true. so let's just take. >> the nih. >> indirect costs cap. yes, it's been put on hold by courts, but i've talked to people. across multiple universities who are not hiring graduate assistants or faculty members in anticipation, or just because they're being prudent that that cap might be reinstated. right. if you're looking if you're a university and you say, oh my god, yeah, it's fine for now, but. >> in. >> a month. >> i may have to give up tens, if not. hundreds of millions of dollars in direct cost support from the government. i can't hire people right now. look at the other hirings at the usaid. some grant money in awards have been put back online, but the people who are. >> administering those awards. >> can't get operational because they already fired people who do

the. >> award in. >> the grant work in the field. and even if they were to rehire people, there. >> are other. >> contractors that depend on to do their work. >> who. >> are still fired. so all. >> this. >> is haphazard, messy, whatever adjective. >> you want to. >> apply to it, is it a terribly inefficient way. >> to run the government? >> and it begs the question, why couldn't. the administration have just come in. work through the proper legal. >> channels. >> even downsized agencies in legally permissible ways, restructured them, and avoided all this court mess? >> and the. >> only answer that i have is that they wanted this. they wanted the chaos. coming up, we'll speak with senate minority leader chuck schumer for his reaction to president trump's address to congress and how democrats. >> are trying to respond. >> that conversation just ahead here. >> on morning joe. weekend. i feel like new sunglasses, like a brand new pair of jeans. brand

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to fight back with their little paddles. >> okay. >> that is how. >> you save democracy. >> by quietly dissenting or bidding on an antique tea set. it was hard to tell what was going on. >> i'm. >> i'm just kidding. >> that was very cool. democrats. >> in fact. >> i made. >> my own sign. >> senator. >> we came in with a clip of stephen colbert telling democrats do something. we've had other people on this show, democrats being critical, saying that you and hakeem. jeffries and other democratic leaders on the hill aren't doing enough. first of all, respond to those criticisms from other democrats and also let. >> us. >> know what what is your plan? what can you do being in the minority? >> well, let me tell you our plan. >> which is. >> a very. >> good plan. >> the plan. is to. >> organize.

>> the most important thing you can do. >> is to. protest is organizing. >> it's not. >> easy, but the american. people are rising to the cause. >> so i. had a call. >> set up with our major activists in new york state. you know, lots of them. >> i thought. >> about 500 people would get on the call. 3000 did. >> and here's. >> what we decided to do. on the issues. >> that so affect americans. the cuts to. >> medicaid, social security, the tariffs. we're going to focus. >> on the six. >> republican congress members in. >> new. >> york state. >> as you know, the margin is so. >> small in the house that. >> only two would change. >> only two vote. two people changing their vote would help us win some of those fights. we're focused. we're getting. other senators to approach, to go after. republican senators in their own states. >> the best way to do. >> this is organize. >> because their actual. >> program is so unpopular and so bad for the american people. >> i believe organizing. >> has a very good chance of succeeding. that's the. >> answer that i have.

>> that's the answer hakeem is doing in the house. and it is the best way to protest the horrible things that trump. >> is doing. >> could you. >> specifically tell us. >> how medicaid. cuts would. >> be devastating. >> not just to new york city, but also to read the read. part of. >> your. >> state that you represent upstate. >> new york. where rural hospitals, nursing homes, about 35, 40, 45% of children's. health care depends primarily on medicaid. and i just asked specifically if you are a new york congressman that either represents upstate new york or wants to get elected statewide, how could you. >> vote for. >> funding being slashed from medicaid so you can pay for tax cuts for the richest americans? >> you're on the money. you know, new york has the. >> third largest rural

population. >> in. >> america, mainly in upstate, of all in. >> upstate. >> of course. and so i'm very familiar. >> our rural hospitals will close. >> if they. have these $800 billion cuts in medicaid. >> they are the only. way rural people can get health care. and they are often the largest employers. >> in many. >> of these. >> rural counties. >> we have community. >> health centers. >> where rural people. >> can. walk in and get decent health care. they can't go to. >> a hospital. it's 50. >> or 100 miles away, and then they'd have to sit in a waiting room, cut. >> them there, the most efficient part of the. >> health care system. >> and yet musk and d.o.j. >> say get rid of them in terms of cutting medicaid, in terms of the. >> cuts that they. >> have proposed. >> it will be devastating. >> and that's why focusing on these republican congressmen and senators. >> and letting. >> the constituencies know, i don't care if they're republican. >> or democrat. they care about medicaid. >> they care about the. costs that tariffs would bring to them. focus on those things. and we can have we can really push back on the republican members.

so that's what the best thing to do is. and you're so right, medicaid. >> doesn't just. >> affect the inner city, although it does. and by the. >> way, it doesn't just affect. >> rural areas. >> in the suburbs. how about all those. >> suburban couples? >> they're earning. >> a nice living. but mom or pop is in a nursing home. >> and you. >> slash medicaid, which is paying. >> to keep them in a nursing. >> home, and you're. >> telling them, well, your mother. >> in law's coming to live with you, you better. >> you better build another room. >> on the house. and of course, the room will cost more. >> because of the tariffs. >> on wood. >> well. >> and of. >> course, often. >> often that's just not an. >> option if. if the parent is. >> in. >> an advanced. >> state of. >> dementia or if there are other challenges. so again, these cuts. would leave a lot of people in upstate new york and in rural american and the exurbs without much of an opportunity. let me ask you about i. >> just want to. >> say this. >> you. >> know. >> the next few months, these devastating. cuts on medicaid, on. >> imposing tariffs. on maybe

social security are going to actually be felt by the american people. >> and i believe donald. >> trump's popularity will plummet. it's beginning. >> to go. >> down a. >> little. >> bit now, but it will go down much. further once these things take effect. he's not backing off on them, as the speech showed on tariffs. and he didn't even mention medicaid, which is such an important issue. and so people aren't going to. like what he's proposing. >> the number. >> one issue in the election. >> we all agreed. >> was costs. >> now he's. raising costs. tariffs should raise the average costs. >> on the average american family by $2,000. one new estimate, $2,700. >> and across. >> the board, you know everything food and gas and cars. so this is not going to bode well. and this speech may have been applauded by the maga right for. all its rhetoric and nastiness and divisiveness, but it. ain't going to go down well with the american people. >> four years ago we were recovering from january 6th. and i can say that remembering lindsey graham, kevin mccarthy,

most republicans being horrified by january 6th, independents. >> being horrified. >> by january. >> the 6th. >> there's been, of course, a massive rewriting of history. >> and those. >> numbers have changed. but that's sad. even in even in that environment, joe biden dared to seek bipartisan compromise, and many in his own party mocked him for trying to do that. but he did it. he he passed more bipartisan legislation than any president this century. >> i know you need. >> a willing partner. and right now, donald trump is not acting like a willing partner for bipartisan legislation. but let's just look forward. what are some areas. >> that you. >> and republicans and the white house could come together on? so we could move past this, this sort of this ugliness, this

nastiness that turns off so many americans? >> well. >> i think you're right. and so many people want. >> bipartisan compromise. and you're. >> right. >> of those seven bills that. >> we passed. >> back in 2022, six were bipartisan. >> but let's take. >> something like the chips act, which is bringing chip manufacturing back to america, which. >> i, a democrat. >> and todd young, the republican. were the. coauthors of. and it got a lot of republican votes as well as democrat. >> he said he wants. >> to cut it. >> i don't even know why he. >> wants to cut it. >> they say they want. >> to bring chip manufacturing back to the united states. >> they say they want. >> good paying jobs in lots of areas that don't have them. we're so proud of the big chip fabs that are going up across upstate new york and syracuse and albany, and in between buffalo and rochester. >> why would he do that? and if he stays. >> partizan as he is. >> he's not going to get anything done. and that's not going to inure to his benefit or to the republican. >> party's benefit. >> so i hope they do work.

>> with us in a bipartisan way. >> you know. >> one of the things is. bringing manufacturing. >> back. >> to the united states like we've done in the chips act. we can do. >> a. >> lot more of that. there are there are. >> things we can. >> work with if they're willing to work with us. so far, by the. >> tone of last. >> night's speech, they're not. >> but let me just. >> say one other thing. if his numbers continue to go down, if, as i believe it will, his popularity will decline because he's proposing so many things that hurt. the average american do nothing about the number one issue costs, and instead give tax breaks to these billionaires. >> we're going. >> to start finding some of these republican senators are less afraid of trump and are willing to join us in the kinds of activities that we did, the kind of bills we did that helped america back in 2022. i was so proud as majority leader to lead the charge on those, and i found a lot of willingness on republicans back then. hopefully we'll find it again. >> up next, a new report for axios reveals that president trump's. maga media. >> army. >> is much.

>> bigger, broader. >> and influential than most people realize. jim vandehei joins us ahead to explain morning joe weekend. >> we'll be coming right back. >> land. >> why are you screaming? >> because you're screaming. >> oh, are you. >> hiding from used car shopping? >> yeah. >> what if i overpay? >> i get. >> it. >> nearly half. >> of all. >> used cars have. >> been in an accident. >> but that's nothing. >> to be afraid of. >> show me. >> your car, fox. >> knowing how a car's accident history impacts price means. >> you. >> don't. >> have to. >> overpay. >> overpay. >> way b when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... ...being me. keep being you... ...and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people—whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there

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[crowd chant] far-xi-ga ask your doctor about farxiga. ♪♪ senators. get behind all of trump's cabinet picks or face political consequences. >> we have republicans. >> now advocating. >> for the. elimination of health care for. >> the poor. >> just hours after swearing to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states, donald trump issued an executive order to defy one of its most consequential amendments. >> we are all. watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. don't miss the weekends, saturday and sunday. >> mornings at 8:00. >> on. >> msnbc. >> a new report posted on axios reveals president trump's maga media army is much bigger, broader and more influential than most people realize.

joining us now, co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei with more. >> so, jim. >> let's talk let's. >> walk through this. >> a lot of people that. >> that aren't familiar. with this maga media universe might say, oh, you know. >> conservatives and people. >> who support donald trump go to fox news. actually, it's much, much bigger than that. walk us through it. >> yeah, i've been struck in the. last couple of months, even when i'm talking to ceos or people in media, how little they understand the depth and breadth of kind of the maga media ecosystem. it is big. it is powerful, it is. >> organized. >> and it operates so much differently than your traditional media ecosystem, and that they see this as information warfare. and we might think about it as like 1 or 2 names like don jr or charlie kirk, but it's a massive, massive ecosystem. you see a lot of it on x. so anyone who goes to x formerly twitter, you see a lot of these people, but beneath it is where all the

activity is. if you go. >> to. >> youtube. >> if. >> you listen to podcasts, if you go to rumble, if you go to instagram, if you go on tiktok, if you go to any place where most people in america congregate for their information and news, and i think the two end up blending together, mega stars have way more clout, way more authority than most of the household names that your viewers are used to following. and they cut across all of these platforms so they'll have huge followings for their podcasts. you look at podcasts on any given week, and that's how a lot of people get the vast majority of their news. you look at that top ten ranking, you'd be hard pressed to find one liberal, and you're often going to find 5 or 6 people from the maga media infrastructure in there and on that list, and then that content moves to youtube, moves across tiktok, moves across instagram, and they have a very shared common worldview. so even if you're thinking about your program today, where you're the interpretation that you guys

have talked about of the zelensky meeting, it's a different universe. if you go into maga, they think that they think that vance was a hero and a tough guy, and they think that trump was a master of the universe and that zelensky was disrespectful in both his tone and his wardrobe. and they're all in. and that's kind of the ecosystem that sits in is kind of the surround sound for trump. >> but it's not a homogenous ecosystem. as you point out, there are sort of three different subsets, and we certainly saw that on thursday of last week where you actually had this, this maga ecosystem split. you had a lot of people very angry about about andrew tate and his brother coming back to the united states. you had a lot of people in the maga universe very upset about the epstein files, and there seemed to be a split between these three different groups that you point out. take us through those three groups. >> yeah. i mean, the big one is

like the true maga meat eaters, like they're full maga, whether it's like a steve bannon or a charlie cook or charlie kirk or a don junior like they are, they are unified on almost all of these topics. there is kind of a middle of maga, which is like mostly maga folks that you see, like someone like hugh hewitt, who used to be pretty conventionally conservative, who now would kind of fall into that category. and then the big one is like mega adjacent, and that would be like the joe rogan's of the world, where they're not inherently political, not always political, but have become very maga over the last 18 months. and i think one of the reasons trump won the election and surprised people was this merger of maga media with what i would consider kind of the bro longevity industrial complex, that kind of that rogan universe or even a huberman who's a, who's a pretty famous longevity guy who increasingly is you find himself injecting himself into politics on x, and it's the

three of those in totality that do have a lot of clout. and yes, they have edge cases like the tate brothers coming back to the us where there's some disagreement. but for the most part, they don't allow that much disagreement and they use information. and i think this is the thing that that democrats are wrestling with right now. they don't look at it as news. they don't look at it as information. they look at it as information warfare, and they look at having each other's back and being on each other's shows and going after anybody who's a critic. it's one of the big explanations of why you got senate confirmation for every single person trump wanted, because you do not want to be in the vortex of the maga industrial complex if you're on the wrong side of it, because they will come after you and their people are listening and watching and reading them. >> well, it's also. >> about toeing the line. i mean, as you said. if you deviate, it's so funny. people are saying, we're going to be open minded. we're not being

closed minded like old media, like dominant media. and then they go, they start their own media empires, and then they're afraid they do anything that varies at all from what the maga company line is, because they get just absolutely eviscerated from the viewers and their listeners and readers. so and we've talked about this before. i mean, you know, there used to be a presence. for liberals. >> they they. >> did fairly well online, but they don't. they're there as as jim said, you look at the top podcasts, you look at the top, you know. what accounts are getting the most hits. it's usually it's these maga accounts. >> yeah. i mean, what jim is describing, you know, in terms of an industry, is also, in many. >> ways the media. >> apparatus of a cult. >> and. >> functioning as media that that broadcasts, lies, convinces people to hate, is built. >> on a. brainwashing function.

>> so that when the humiliation and the disgrace of friday, as we were talking about, happens, there is ready for them a bunch of millions of people who will, who will see it in a reality distortion field that has been created. and i think it's incredibly important. you're right that that people who are on the pro-democracy side in this country build up a media apparatus that can. the word i've used again and again is, is help. >> people make meaning, right? >> meaning doesn't make itself when an event like friday happens in the oval office, the meaning of that is not self-generating. and if you have this giant apparatus that jim's describing that is helping people make one meaning of it, a meaning that is favorable to vladimir putin, favorable to the kremlin. and you don't really have, you know, democratic politicians, certainly, but also not a giant new media apparatus on the pro-democracy side that helps people make a different meaning, that helps people remind people of what the united states has been, what it has stood up for in eastern europe. et cetera. then you're just

ceding the territory. and this is a we. i just don't believe we can see this, this new media territory. >> up next, we'll dive into season three of dark winds, a psychological thriller that follows. navajo tribal police officers. investigating the disappearance of two boys in the 1970s, actress. >> jenna. >> elfman and. >> actor and. >> executive producer. >> zahn mcclarnon. >> are with. us next. >> are with. us next. >> morning joe weekend pronamel clinical enamel strength can help us to keep our enamel for a lifetime. it's backed by science it is clinically proven to strengthen our teeth. i would recommend this toothpaste to everybody. it's really an amazing product. (♪♪) ah mornings! cough? congestion? i'm feeling better. all in one and done... with mucinex kickstart. aaaaaaaaaaaaa. - headache? - better now. mucinex kickstart gives all-in-one and done relief with a morning jolt of instant cooling sensation. it's comeback season. when our numbers guy, frank, goes on vacation instant cooling sensation. the deals on the most affordable german-engineered car brand in america

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developments inside the trump administration's department of justice. >> the administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> we're looking for. >> two boys, and i think those boys stumbled. >> across a. >> monster. oh my. >> lord. i'm broken. >> sylvia washington, fbi. >> see bad spirits around. >> i spent your. life helping. >> others try to run from the

things that i've done. >> but your. >> life is a lie. >> i feel my time running out. >> i need you to tell me everything. >> i say, lord. >> that was a preview. >> of season. >> three of the. >> amc show dark. >> winds, based on the iconic. >> series of books. >> by tony hillerman. >> the series. follows the work of lieutenant joe leaphorn, a navajo tribal police officer in the american southwest. this season, he must investigate the mysterious and potentially supernatural disappearance of two boys, while. >> also trying to. >> outrun his own past. and amc recently announced that it. >> has already. >> renewed the show for. a fourth season. and joining us now. dark winds. actor and executive producer. zahn mcclarnon, who plays lieutenant leaphorn. and golden globe and. >> emmy. >> nominated actress jenna elfman, who is. >> guest. >> starring in season three as an out of town fbi special agent. thank you both for being here. >> this morning.

>> we appreciate it. so i'll start with you. first of all, congrats. >> on the news. >> of the renewal. good news indeed. so set the stage for us. tell us a little bit more about what we should expect in this season. >> this season. >> is another mystery. >> written by tony hillerman. >> based on a. >> couple of tony hillerman books, the sinister pig and the dance hall of the dead. >> just a lot. >> of excitement. >> to kind. >> of. >> go more into. >> joe's psyche. >> this season, and. >> some of the things that befell him because of. >> some of the. >> choices he made. >> so it's exciting. >> it's going to be exciting. >> well i'm excited. >> i'm a huge fan. i've been. >> a fan since you were on. longmire as a mathias. and, you know, one. >> of the really. >> special things about joe. >> leaphorn is. kind of seeing the world that he lives in come alive. >> i'm wondering. >> you know, especially in this moment in american history, kind of. can you tell us a little bit about what we can expect to see

from. >> this. >> this world? >> and is there a message that you have through these characters and their lives about, you know, what joe leaphorn's. >> story should. >> mean for the rest of america? >> you know. >> i we. >> set the. >> show through. >> a unique cultural. >> lens that. >> a lot of. >> audiences haven't. >> seen before, and. >> i think that's really important. >> for native representation. in television and film today. >> and i'm very. >> fortunate to. >> be a part of. >> this, this time period in. >> in film. >> and tv for representation. >> because we all grew up. >> with the. >> the. >> you know, the stereotypes. >> and the tropes. >> and we. >> were showing. native culture in a different light and more. >> three dimensional characters. >> and, you know, we're hoping. >> that audiences. >> are enjoying it. i think they are. >> because the show. >> has been successful. and people. are tuning in. >> i can't wait. >> jenna. >> what's it. >> been like for you joining. this set in this season? >> and you're you.

>> come in. >> and you are an out of town. fbi agent, so you're an. >> outsider coming in. >> and you're a. >> newbie on the set. what's it been like? yeah, well, first. >> it was. >> just i love john. >> worth's what. >> he's done with. >> the writing and. working with. >> zahn was so. >> incredible in every scene, no matter where i turned, there was just. >> so much talent. and it. was just a real honor. >> to. >> be able to come in and. >> be part. >> of the storytelling. and, you know, backstory. 1972 was the first two female fbi agents ever, except for one back in a long time ago. but that was a special, separate situation. so this was the. first time that two. women graduated the academy. and so she has something to prove, and she's kind of been sent out. and at the same time, i wanted to show how unbecoming white entitlement is. and so it was. >> to. >> just the way. >> she swoops in and. >> but she also has something. >> to prove. so i. wanted to

bring. >> the subtleties of the collision of those two factors happening. and, you. >> know. >> just underneath the surface while we are telling the story. >> so those. >> collision but also a collision course with his character. >> so make him. >> very uncomfortable. >> talk to us. >> about that dynamic. >> and the. >> way your two act characters interplay. >> well, i obnoxiously just make myself at home in his storage room. with my cup of coffee and he's like, hello? and i'm like, oh yeah. >> so it was very. >> but, you know, she has a very she's like a hound and she's a really good investigator. and, you know, she she quickly smells. something's not right in everything that she's reading. and she has no back off. but she does give him the you're. >> the law around here. >> so i'm not. >> going to look. >> into you first. the stakes. >> are definitely. >> a lot higher. >> when she. >> walks into my office and.

>> and means. >> i could lose everything that. >> i have. >> my. >> relationships. >> my freedom, most importantly. so the. >> stakes are definitely high. >> don't go anywhere. we have. >> a second. >> hour of morning joe weekend for you. for you. >> right after this br at wayfair, we get pretty excited about furniture. around here it's not a patio, it's a pati- ...ohhhh!!! i love those chairs!!! shed-tastic! [ laughing ] let's go. this rocks! my queen! -yeah? oh, i meant the bed. girl you nailed it! no, this set, it's just a couple of screws! they're a perfect comb-oh they got a fire pit. ♪ wayfair. every style. every home. ♪ at bombas we make the most comfortable sock in the history of feet so comfortable you'll wish you had more vist bombas.com and get 20% off your first order

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>> i can feel the winds of change. >> welcome back to this second. >> hour of morning joe weekend. let's dive. >> right back into. >> some of the big.

conversations we. >> had over this past week. >> let's bring in right now senior political columnist for politico. we've got jay martin, jonathan martin, also white house bureau chief for politico, dasha burns. i will note dasha not wearing a bow tie today, but she is coauthoring new reporting on donald trump putting new limits on elon musk j. mart, since you got the bow tie, you got to go to you first. i mean, i'm i'm looking at the rules here and that's what the rule. book says. you got to follow the rule book. and you actually unlike me, you look like you know how to tie a. bow tie. can i get i just i can never get it right. so many things i could just never get right. but i somehow. i was not. >> prepared. >> for. >> this. >> political party. >> yes, exactly. >> exactly. so. so, jonathan, you look back in the history, political history, and you got you got some images that that

just didn't, didn't age well. you remember george w bush, george h.w. bush looking at his watch during the debate. 92. really? well, yeah. 92 that didn't work. well. michael dukakis with a helmet on in the tank. good man. both of those good men didn't work well. yeah. elon musk with that chainsaw. this is the chainsaw of bureaucracy. at a time when there are faa cuts, at a time when they're cutting the very people that are trying to stop the bird flu from being a pandemic. at the same time, they are cutting people that were ensuring the safety of our nuclear arsenal. we could go on and on, but you got to say, i got a sense yesterday, you tell me when donald trump started talking about, hey, we're going to let the cabinet agencies take care of this, who's fired, who's not fired. and we want to keep the good people. it seems to me you never know exactly what's going to happen, but it looks

like phase one, the shock and awe phase. and we don't care who's fired. we don't care how much it damages american security. we just want the headlines. looks like we may be moving to phase two of that. what do you think? >> it certainly has that air. props to my colleague kyle cheney. >> for their. >> scoop yesterday. >> about that, that. >> hastily convened, as we say in the news business cabinet meeting where trump laid down. >> the law. >> if we're talking. about metaphors, let's consider the two cutting. tools of the last two weeks. >> you had. >> elon musk, joe wielding the chainsaw at cpac. and then yesterday, donald trump uses the word scalpel. well, i'm not a doctor, but there's a big difference between a chainsaw and a scalpel. and i think that what trump is trying to convey to elon and everybody else is we're going from the. chainsaw phase to the scalpel phase, because. >> a lot. >> of americans prefer the.

>> scalpel politically. >> than the chainsaw one. >> you just want to make sure you're getting. >> the. >> right people. first of all, a lot of blowback. jonathan lamir on the number of veterans being fired. and that blowback is coming in town hall meetings from veterans. it's coming on fox news with hosts of popular shows on fox news in primetime saying, hey, we got to stop firing the veterans. don't fire the veterans. so you have that blowback and you also you've just got you've got other pushback on on just how wide and indiscriminate these cuts are and the growing realization that the federal workforce that only makes up 5% of our budget, the other 95% goes to other things. and as we've said before, about 90% of that goes for medicare and medicaid, social security, interest on the debt. and the defense department. that's it.

>> yeah. i'm also told. that from west wing advisors that. >> trump. >> somewhat predictably, was really. >> concerned about how this is all playing out in the media. he didn't. >> like the tv. >> coverage, particularly. >> the last. >> couple of days, about the cuts to veterans affairs. he's very sensitive, believes that veterans largely. >> support him. >> and didn't. >> want. >> to be seen as. >> turning his. >> back on them. >> so. >> dasha, tell us. more about what led to this. jay mart's words hastily. convened meeting yesterday. and also, what do we think from. >> your. >> reporting. >> the future of doge looks like because. >> it's certainly not. >> gone. >> but maybe limited. >> yeah. >> no, musk is not going. >> anywhere any. >> time soon. >> all of my sources. >> indicated that and look hastily convened like. >> an. >> intervention style. i mean, president trump, it's significant that he called folks up the night before saying, come to the white house, cabinet secretaries and musk, let's all get in a room, and i'm going to make something. >> clear to you guys. >> my sources say it was his

idea. it was his orchestration. he wanted. >> to. >> make sure the message was delivered directly. >> from him. this is the first time that he's really significantly. >> intervened in doge. >> and my sources tell. >> me that. >> actually, senator thune coming out and saying and they have a really good relationship. >> by the way, and trump. from everything i'm hearing, thune coming. >> out and saying, hey. >> we. confirmed these cabinet secretaries. >> they are now. >> in place. these are people we approved of. they should be making these decisions. >> that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's. >> back, as. all of the pressure cooker was. >> starting to. >> build up between. >> those town halls. >> the calls he was. >> getting from lawmakers and cabinet. >> secretaries and thune. >> saying that he felt like he really needed to take it into his own hands. >> yeah, that is fascinating. >> we're going to talk some more about this. but right now, let's bring in co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and new york times columnist. andrew ross sorkin with the breaking news. breaking news is he's not wearing a bow tie like jay mohr. do you ever

have you ever done this? look, can we show jay martin the bow tie? have you ever done this thing? it's looking good. the book is looking good, isn't it? you know, i, i would reimburse my wardrobe. >> from the show. >> no. >> no, no, we don't know. i mean, jay, jay. mark. you know. >> i went to hampden-sydney in virginia. you know, they teach you how to tie a bow tie in virginia, you know? come on, joe. >> of course, a lot of guys at the university of alabama wearing the bow ties, too. i just again, i just was always never quite got it quite right. but anyway, we'll move on now to i guess news if we have to though i do like talking about jay mohr satire. so andrew, you know, it's a it's a funny business. you're in sometimes bad news is good news. good news is bad news. look at 151,000. i'm thinking maybe that gives jay powell. >> a little. >> operating space. you know, if it had come in at 250,000 jobs, everybody would be saying, oh my

god, he's going to have to raise interest rates. but does this, does this, does this give jay powell and the fed maybe an opportunity to. >> look at. >> a. >> you know, quarter percent cut coming up in a couple of months? i think this just gives him time. i think this is a fine news. you know, whether you want to put it on trump or you want to put it on biden, i think this is just fine news. i think 150,000 jobs, 151,000 jobs in this case is fine news. there's a little bit of an uptick in unemployment. i think this is just everybody's biding their time to try to understand what the world really looks like over the next couple of months, given all the uncertainty that we have seen. in fact, you could argue that this is stronger in certain ways than maybe i had anticipated. and gives the administration even a little bit of room. we will see, you know, a lot of the stuff that doge has done and some of the other things are not really built into these numbers just yet, both in

terms of government jobs that are going to be lost. and then, as we've talked about a lot on this broadcast, the uncertainty that's now emerged around tariffs, around whatever you think is going to happen later in the year around taxes, for example, hasn't really played out in terms of employment, in terms of investment by companies. and those are numbers we're not going to see right now. so those are things we would see maybe at the earliest next month, but actually more likely into into april, may and june before we really have a sense of what that uncertainty has wrought. if it's wrought anything. yeah. you know, we had new york times, tom friedman on who said, hey, listen, tariffs on a lot of china goods. it's a great idea. china's been taking advantage of us for years. he of course, took exception with canada, with mexico, as many others have too. i suspect that there is going to be support for continued tariffs on china. i do wonder, though, at what point do do the threats to canada and

mexico end up just being seen as threats? because we've had we've had once again, you know, the threat. and then he pulls back threat. now he's pulled back until april. i don't think anybody's wanting those tariffs. hardly anybody's wanting those tariffs on mexico and canada. but at the same time i'm wondering at what point is it just seen as a threat. and little more than that. well, i don't know. and i think it's possible this could be an ongoing threat. but the ongoing threat unto itself, whether they get put on, taken off, what have you, doesn't do any great help to the business community in terms of investment in the united states, because you don't know what's going to happen. and there's sort of a very interesting sort of behavioral science psychological issue here, which is if you if the tariffs are here and they're here to stay, you might actually bring back manufacturing to the us. but you have to effectively convince the business community

that this isn't going anywhere, and therefore you got to bring it back. if you think that this is just a negotiating tool and that, you know, maybe they can put on now, but in six months later they're going to get taken off or they're going to change. i think if you're a business leader today, you say, i don't know if i'm going to go spend billions of dollars bringing investment back. let me ask you this question, though. i remember talking to jeff immelt a decade. ago when he was running ge and he said, hey, we need to bring a lot. you know, the supply chain is too unpredictable. we need a lot to bring a lot of manufacturing back home. i mean, it's easier said than done. we live in this extraordinarily complicated world. again, friedman talking about, you know, 35% of parts created in america, but other parts of a ford f-150 created all over the world. you could say that about an iphone. you could say that about a laptop. you could say that about just about anything that we make. i mean, i understand in theory

it's a great idea. set up tariffs, bring manufacturing back to the united states, and everybody's happy. but regardless of the fact, you know, i know scott bassett said, hey, low prices are not the right of americans. don't tell americans that low consumer prices aren't their god given right, because they're used to it and they're not going to give it away. so i guess the question is, is it possible to get from where we are now to where donald trump wants to be, because it's going to cause a hell of a lot of pain in between? well, i think that transition, that is the question. and to the extent from a political perspective that you think the president cares about the midterms, cares about what you think ultimately does happen to the stock market, even though i think right now they're saying, please, you know, don't use that as the barometer. and by the way, there have been times over the years where we've talked about the economy and there's been a disconnect between the stock market and the economy. and we said, look at the real economy.

so i don't want to overstate the case, but i do think, you know, 18 months from now he's going to be looking depending on the pain of these tariffs at a challenged situation. is he going to accept that challenge and say that he's willing to live through that pain because he believes that there's a rainbow on the other side? i don't know. now you are seeing some companies, by the way, apple and others, not only have they brought some business back to the us, they've started to move things around. right? they're starting to manufacture in india. they're starting to manufacture in vietnam. so it is doable. but those are big investments. and they and i think those ceos want certainty to know what's about to happen next. and obviously right now they don't have those answers. >> morning joe weekend. we'll be right. >> back after a short break. i feel. like new sunglasses, like a brand new pair of jeans. >> brand new.

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life's too short for ordinary. get yours today at jack archer.com/tv. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government. >> now can discriminate. >> against the citizens of the country. >> we are all watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. don't miss the weekends, saturday, and sunday. >> mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow. chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> senior white house officials and ukrainian officials are expected to meet in saudi arabia next week for discussions about a potential cease fire with russia. this as administration

officials engage in direct talks with hamas over the release of u.s. hostages still held in gaza. the cease fire there remains in limbo after the first phase of the deal expired. let's bring in right now foreign affairs columnist for the new york times, thomas friedman. he's the author of the book from beirut to jerusalem an insider's account of his reporting of the middle east over the past 30 tumultuous plus years. hey, tom, thank you so much for being with us. i don't i don't i don't want to talk about the competition this morning, but i don't think you'll mind. wall street journal editorial page i just want to read you a little bit about what they say about donald trump's dealings currently with with russia. if mr. putin really wants peace, why would he object to a modest deployment that poses no threat in russia? the answer is that the post war goal is to leave ukraine in a weakened state that isn't aligned with the west, and is ripe for his next imperial assault. he wants to own or dominate ukraine full stop.

meanwhile, the u.s. continues to squeeze zelensky. if mr. trump wants to end the killing, why is he withholding intel that will encourage russia to escalate and kill more ukrainian civilians and soldiers? this is a one sided peace process, and ukraine is supposed to make all the concessions, while russia demands more rewards for its unprovoked invasion that has killed hundreds of thousands. that's in this morning's wall street journal editorial page. you have written in extraordinarily moving terms about this and the consequences of it. tell us where we are right now. well, joe. >> where we are. >> is just. imagine a poker game and vladimir putin has a pair of twos, and donald trump has. four aces. and putin says, i'm going all in. >> and donald trump. >> says, i. >> think i'll fold. >> okay. >> i believe. >> from the very beginning of this war and wrote. >> that it's going to. >> have to end with some kind of dirty deal, as it were. russia

is going to be able to hold some ukrainian territory because it matters. >> more to them than it does to us to evict them. >> from every inch of ukrainian territory. the question, joe, is how does the war end? and from my perspective, we have to have two things. one is alluded to right there in the journal's editorial. there has to be some kind of european tripwire force on the ground that says to putin, you. cannot come back. >> a tripwire. >> force that britain and. >> france have both offered us, backed by the united states. number one. number two, ukraine is. not going to be in nato, but. ukraine must be allowed to continue its process. >> of joining the european union. >> i've always believed. >> this. >> war for putin. >> was much more about the european union. it is. vital that this war end. >> with putin. having and russians having to look every day at a. >> slavic european. >> union and. >> a slavic ukraine, in the european union, in a capitalist. >> democratic and free market right next door to a slavic. putin's russia that is thieving, kleptocracy, failing economy. if

that's how. >> the war. >> ends with a tripwire that. >> putin can't. >> come back and ukraine. >> in the european union. then we are in. >> a long term. >> process that. >> actually weakens putin and. >> doesn't strengthen him. >> we're showing a map right now, tom. let's say putin gets his way because of donald trump, and ukraine is moldova not next? are we then not looking at the baltic states, estonia, latvia, lithuania next? and he's in effect reconstituted the entire old soviet union? well, you're. >> you're exactly asking the right. >> question, joe, which is that if. >> this if. >> this. >> war ends on terms that. >> every. >> neighbor understands that putin has come out stronger. >> first of. >> all. >> they will all adjust their politics. putin doesn't have to invade. they will all. >> adjust their politics. >> become more pro-russian. but secondly. >> i believe. >> that germany will. >> certainly begin a debate on whether they should acquire. >> a. >> nuclear weapon. >> by the by the way, the. same

thing will happen. >> with our. >> allies in asia. if america is out of the business of giving a nuclear umbrella to japan, korea, germany, then they will eventually feel they need one of their own. because why was ukraine invaded? because they gave up their nukes. so, you know, for trump to say, well, this. >> war costs. >> too much. imagine if we end this war in a way that triggers massive nuclear proliferation. >> tom, can we go through history, just just history of dealing with the soviet union and russia? and of course, i read the wall street journal editorial page this morning talking about how now sergey lavrov says we don't want the french deal, we don't want this, we don't want that. they won't even agree to the most modest of requests that are out there. now. i've been talking for the past week or so about what happens when you show weakness to the old soviet union and to russia. yalta 45 fdr thought he was going to win a charm offensive. they kind of pushed churchill to the side. 62 jfk in

vienna george w bush talking about looking into the eyes of putin. then the invasion of georgia, barack obama's reset and telling medvedev, hey, we'll be able to do more after the election. after the election, ukraine is invaded and crimea is invaded. passenger airliners shot down. the obama administration doesn't want to give ukraine any weapons or defensive weapons, even because it would provoke them. and now here we are once again, vladimir putin. you know, we have yet another president who thinks that they can deal with putin, talk about how showing weakness, especially with vladimir putin, only leads to more war. well, joe. >> you just cited the record. you know. >> when i grew. >> up in minnesota. every summer they had. >> a state fair. >> and as a. >> little boy, i was always

fascinated by the guy who. >> could guess your weight. >> how does he do that? you know, and. >> if you. >> got it right or. >> wrong. >> i don't remember. you won a kewpie doll or. or whatnot. in europe, people can guess your power, especially. >> around russia. >> from 100 miles away. >> coming up, steve rattner takes a look at president trump's joint address to congress, and he separates. >> fact from fiction. >> the morning joe weekend will be right. >> back after a short break. >> for the times when cooking just isn't in the cards, try brand new ready made meals from hellofresh. no preo cooking. just heat up and dig in to delicious new from hellofresh. i feel so much. better about. >> myself and it's. absolutely life changing. >> sono bello. >> uses micro laser technology to remove stubborn fat permanently and in just one visit. >> i don't want to cry. there's an amber before sono.

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>> life doesn't come with an owner's manual. freedom is getting to write your own. so get 10% off a jeep wrangler, or get into a jeep grand cherokee where freedom is on road or off, where it's a front row seat to the city, or. >> a second row seat. >> maybe even a third. life doesn't. >> come with an owner's. >> manual, so get out there and write your own. during the jeep celebration event. get 10% below msrp for an average of $5,650 under msrp on these 2024 jeep wrangler models. see your local jeep brand dealer today. >> steve rattner is back with more fact checks. there are a lot, steve. first up, president trump doubled down on one of his biggest campaign promises, which is making his 2017 tax cuts permanent. watch. >> we're seeking permanent income tax cuts all across the board. and to get urgently needed relief to americans hit especially hard by inflation. i'm calling for no tax on tips,

no tax on overtime and no tax on social security benefits for our great seniors. and i also want to make interest payments on car loans tax deductible, but only if the car is made in america. >> okay okay okay. so steve, you say that's impossible to do with the house republicans budget proposal. >> yeah. look, trump has hands out tax cuts like they were halloween candy. but then at some point, the you got to deal with the reality of what that all adds up to. so let's take a look at the reality. the chickens are coming home to roost on that. so he's talking about no tax on social security. no tax on overtime, no tax on tips. no tax on interest, loans on cars made here. these are billions and billions of dollars of tax cuts. simply extending his existing tax cuts, the ones

that he passed in 2017 down here would cost over $4 trillion. the house budget committee has only allocated $4.5 trillion for all the tax cuts. so you could do this, which he's completely committed to. but how the rest of this happens, including a full deduction of the state and local taxes, is impossible. this is almost $8 trillion worth of tax cuts. so this is an empty promise. can't happen. won't happen. >> and one of. >> the things that. >> drew well, let's say shock, surprise. some mockery from the address the other night was president trump, given what you've laid out there, promising to balance the budget. here's that moment from the address. >> and in the near future, i want to do what has not been done in 24 years. balance the federal budget. we're going to balance that. >> steve. >> how does he plan to do that? >> well, first of all, on his first term, he planned not only to balance the budget, but to

pay off all the national debt. that didn't work so well. he added a ton of national debt, but let's look at how it isn't going to work this time. so we are looking in what we call a base case without anything else happening. we're looking at deficits a bit below 2 trillion, going all the way up to 3 trillion over the next ten years, a total already. these dark green bars of $20 trillion of additional debt. the budget plan that i just described would add another two and a half, roughly trillion dollars of debt. so instead of balancing the budget and paying down the debt, he's creating more deficits. all these deficits and adding $22.5 trillion to the debt. >> all right. so president trump addressed tariffs the other day and said they would be. positive for the auto industry. yeah. >> deals are being made. never seen. that's a combination of the election win and tariffs. it's a beautiful word isn't it. that along with our other policies will allow our auto

industry to absolutely boom. it's going to boom. i spoke to the majors today. all three the top people and they're so excited. >> tariffs he deems a beautiful word. >> at other times he said it's his favorite word. and steve. but we also know yesterday he's already backed. off some. >> of. >> the tariffs for the auto industry. what are your charts say. >> well he may think it's a beautiful word. he may think the auto industry is going to boom. neither the auto companies nor the stock market see it that way. so here's a chart of stock prices for ford, ford and general motors since the inauguration day. compared to the overall market, the overall market we know has come down. still up here, ford and general motors kind of went off a cliff after inauguration, down 10% for general motors, about 7.5% for ford. and here's a quote from the ford ceo before yesterday. tariffs will blow a hole in the industry that we have never seen. and so he said in his speech just now that he had

spoken to all three automakers and they were happy. well, a day later they called the white house and said, no, we're really not so happy. we need you to at least pause these tariffs and hopefully get rid of them. >> so trump also touched. >> on. >> how tariffs, a different set of tariffs may affect america's farm workers. let's listen to some of that. >> our new trade policy will also be great for the american farmer i love the farmer. who will now be selling into our home market, the usa, because nobody is going to be able to compete with you. >> he later. >> said that farmers go. have fun. but steve, you say that they'll lose a huge market to actually sell their goods. >> well, he may love the farmers. i'm not so sure they love him at the moment. let's just go back to trump one for a second, because he also put tariffs on, as you remember then. and there were retaliatory tariffs in 2018 and 19. the government collected a total of

$50 billion from all the tariffs that we imposed on things coming into this country. we then gave back $24.5 billion to the farmers to compensate them for their lost exports, so that did not go so well. let's see why we export a huge amount of soybeans, 7.7 billion and even more of corn, 13.1 billion. we export virtually none of it. so if we lose these exports, this stuff stays in the american market. americans are already buying all the soybeans and corn they want to buy. so i don't really see how this is great for american farmers, how this sort of allows them to, quote, sell things at home when we're already selling everything we can at home, and sending the rest of it overseas is one of our major exports. >> our next guest says that james carville's. >> recent advice on how to deal with. president trump simply won't work. >> molly jong-fast will join. >> us to explain.

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>> it. >> challenging to come up. >> with a gift that's really impactful, something that really makes. >> a difference. >> jolie has. >> been a tremendous gift. it's something that is not only looks beautiful, but makes us feel. amazing and is something that we get to use every day. >> not feeling the grays but don't want a color? try just for men. control gx gray reducing shampoo. just shampoo. >> like you do. >> to gradually reduce grays. now boosted with keratin. >> hair. >> looks two times thicker to keep you looking your best. control gx shampoo. >> machine learning is advancing, but businesses wonder if some machines can keep up. >> let's welcome our new. >> coworker, jeff. >> copier has a great idea. >> i wonder if. >> it's the. >> same idea as yesterday. >> it's a. performance issue. really. i know people push your buttons, but you still have to deliver. >> anything can change the world

of work. adp assist is i. >> informed by workplace data and designed for the next anything. >> all of this can be overwhelming, but it is important to remember there are still checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now, and it is really important to pay attention to it, but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try to remember we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun. >> republican lawmakers are shrugging off recent disapproval and outrage at town hall events, instead blaming the backlash. backlash on what they say are paid troublemakers. president trump took to social media yesterday to claim, without any evidence, that these troublemakers were attending and disrupting town hall meetings as part of a game for democrats.

similar sentiments were expressed last week by house speaker. mike johnson, who claimed those speaking out against gop policies were simply unhappy dems. over the weekend, senator roger marshall of kansas even walked out of a town hall early after he was confronted by constituents. >> and then. >> he claimed to nbc news that. those speaking out at that. >> town. >> hall were, quote, people from the big city. which one? here's one exchange from that town hall, followed by senator marshall's description of those who questioned him. >> i'm just doing. >> right now as far as cutting out those jobs. a huge percentage of those people. and i don't even know who you care about the veterans. >> the veterans. >> yes. >> and that is a damn shame. >> yes. >> yes. >> that is. >> a damn. >> yes. >> i'm not. >> a democrat, but i'm worried about. >> the veterans man. >> yes, sir. thank you.

>> all right. >> well. >> i yield. >> to one of. >> my elders, and. i appreciate his comments. >> i think it's. >> a great. >> i'm not going to. we don't have time for everyone to stand up. i do got. >> two more. >> commitments today. >> appreciate everybody. >> making the. >> drive out. >> and god. >> bless and. >> thank you. our our. our god. you beyonce. >> we're. >> going. >> to take pictures with. >> you buddy. right. >> vote you out. >> so the big. disappointment was here's a. >> county. >> 3000 people less. >> than 3000. >> they're all. >> connected to agriculture. >> so they wouldn't. >> let me talk. >> about agriculture. >> or rural america. >> so people. >> from the big. >> city drove. >> five hours so they could silence rural people who really are on tough times. >> right now. >> over 85%. >> of people in that county. >> voted for president trump. >> i looked at the car tax. okay. i'm not dumb. all i have

to. >> do is look. >> at the. >> car tags when there's more mercedes benz. >> there than. >> there are. pickup trucks. >> i know. >> they're not from middle america. >> from what we saw in the video just now, seemed to counter the senator's claims. you heard the boos when he walked out. house minority. >> leader hakeem. >> jeffries pushed back on those very gop claims yesterday, saying we don't need to send paid protesters into your town hall meetings. >> the american. >> people are with us. and, molly, this dovetails nicely to what you've been writing about, because there are. some in the democratic party who suggest the dems should sort of lie back right now, like to stay out of the way, let the republicans kind of damage themselves. but you take the opposite approach. >> yeah, i think that's. >> a huge. >> mistake, especially. >> because we've seen republicans unable or unwilling to protect norms and institutions. right. we did not see any senators, any republican senators stand up for the norms. >> and institutions of the cabinet secretaries. >> their article two

responsibility. they were, you know, i don't know if they're all. >> in on the maga. >> agenda or. >> scared of the maga agenda. >> but whatever it is, we did not see them stand up for the norms and institutions that we love so dearly in this country. and so it falls to the democrats. and i think there's a real anger in this country, and we've seen it. there's a punter, chris kluwe, who's been talking about it in these. town hall meetings. there's this kind of and i'm not sure. >> that democratic. >> politicians see it or even understand it or even like it. you know, they. >> have. >> really pushed back against this groundswell. >> of people. but you're. >> seeing throughout. >> the country. >> protests and a lot of anger. >> and remember, these. >> cuts haven't even really happened yet. so we still have this folsom federal government. it is going to. >> be. the. >> cuts they're talking about are humongous. and remember, 30% of the federal government. >> is veterans. >> so you're going. to see a lot of jobless veterans. and i have

trouble imagining that the people who are so angry are going to feel better when they are confronted with the reality of lots of local jobless veterans. >> our next. >> guest warns that consumer prices are. >> never coming. >> down, but says that. >> actually could be good news. >> for democrats. >> we'll hear that argument. >> when. >> morning. >> morning. >> joe weekend r ♪ world, ♪ ♪ the time has come to... ♪ ♪ push the button. ♪ ♪ world, ♪ ♪ the time has come to... ♪ ♪ push the button. ♪ ♪ world, ♪ the time has come to... ♪ ♪ push the button. ♪ (♪♪) get 0% apr for 60 months on 2024 gmc ev models. that's up to $17,200 in average finance savings. ♪♪ sonya earlene and marcia are among the thousands of real women

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days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half the night reading executive. >> orders for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government. >> now can discriminate. >> against the citizens. >> of the country. >> we are all watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. don't miss the weekends, saturday, and. >> sunday mornings at 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> even before trump's tariffs went into effect, a recent poll taken before the tariffs were implemented show that 50% 57% of americans expect prices to go up in the next six months. tom, in your latest piece for newsweek, you argue that consumer prices are never coming down. news that's going over like a lead balloon at this table. but tell us what you mean. well. >> the thing. >> that really got me on that.

>> path was what issue could. >> the. democrats own. >> that would. >> bring them back a. winning political hand? >> as bad. >> as the implementation. >> by trump may be of immigration policy. >> or ukrainian war. or government spending, i think. >> it's very hard for the democrats. >> to own. >> that issue in a way that's going to. >> bring them. >> back some political redemption. but they. >> can own consumer. prices and consumer prices, arguably. >> is the issue that lost the election for the democrats. i have to remind people that it wasn't any kind of landslide or mandate. it's 115,000 votes in three states. that made the difference between harris and trump. and i. think a lack of focus on consumer prices. >> by the harris. >> campaign really was the lethal blow. >> having said that. >> i think it's the issue that the democrats can bring back there their hand. and the reason. i say. >> consumer prices are never going down.

>> is because they never do, unless. >> you. >> hit a. >> deep recession or a depression. where you have deflation taking hold, prices just continue to go up and people. >> confuse the rate. >> of inflation. >> how fast prices go. up with prices going down. >> having said that. >> trump doubled down. >> in the speech. >> to congress and. said he was. >> going to reverse prices. >> bring them back down. >> frank luntz. this morning on cnbc. and a great interview with andrew said voters are expecting prices to come down and in six months. >> they are. >> truly expecting trump to do that. that's not going to happen. now, that. >> doesn't mean that some individual. prices won't come down. we may. >> get to the other side. >> of bird flu, and egg prices come down. when it. >> comes to. >> gasoline prices. having nothing. >> to do with drill, baby drill, but just a worldwide commodity that is fluctuates based. on sanctions. >> on russia.

>> or. >> iran or what's going on. >> in terms of the chinese. >> economy may come down. >> some, but. overall prices just continue to go up, particularly grocery prices. so if the democrats have to. >> refine their their language. >> here. some they've gotten pretty good. >> at saying, well, when. >> trump talks. >> about greenland or the panama canal. >> or paper straws, he's just. diverting attention from the economy. >> he's just diverting. >> attention from inflation. they have to. >> get it. >> more focused. >> when are you bringing prices down? >> because the answer is he isn't and he can't. >> i think there are lots of people that are like, oh, the prices are not going down. in the last year of the biden administration. tom, one of the things they talked about was this, like greedflation, they tried to put a fancy label on it, but it's essentially that the companies don't have to have the prices so high, and it's really going after the companies to work for the consumers, if you will, and bring their prices down. it's like when you go to the grocery store, you open a bag of chips after you bought

them, and half the bag is air. that's that greedflation. but the chips are still the same price. is that the kind of laser focused messaging you think would be helpful for democrats? they need to be in more grocery stores. >> well. >> i think. >> they need. >> to focus on prices. certainly. i don't think price gouging and. >> that effort by the biden administration was the right thrust, because there is really not price gouging as the basis for higher prices. prices continue to go up. i think the. biden administration. >> had a. >> pretty good record. >> on. >> bringing the rate of inflation down. >> it was 9%. they brought it down. >> to under 3%. and it. wasn't focused. >> enough on. i think. >> they have a rightful claim to. be able to have the battle cry going forward. when it comes to high prices. we fight them. >> he ignites them because some. >> combination of budget deficits, tax cuts, mass. deportations and. other and

tariffs. >> are going to ignite inflation one way or another. >> still ahead here, we'll speak with former bet ceo. debra lee about. >> the biggest. moments of her high powered career. >> this is the emirates premium >> this is the emirates premium economy seat. economy. if you're living with diabetes, i'll tell you the same thing i tell my patients. getting on dexcom g7 is one of the easiest ways to take better control of your diabetes and help protect yourself from the long-term health problems it can cause. this small wearable... replaces fingersticks, lowers a1c, and it's covered by medicare. not managing your diabetes really affects... your health for the future. the older you get, the more complications you're gonna see. i knew i couldn't ignore my diabetes anymore

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>> i didn't have a lot. >> of. >> people i. >> could trust in the beginning because i inherited. >> a team. >> but over time, i hired. >> more women. >> you know, i evened. >> out the room. >> and i gave women. >> more opportunities than they would. >> have had under someone else. so i think the thing i. >> would focus on the most. >> is. making sure there are more female ceos and creating a work environment where female. >> ceos can be successful. >> that was the former. >> chairman and. >> ceo of black entertainment television networks, deborah lee. >> back in 2020. >> two years after. launching bet. outlining her hopes for the future of. >> women in. >> corporate america. lee's own trailblazing career. >> in the. >> entertainment industry, and her advice on how to achieve success in business are detailed in her memoir titled. >> i am. >> deborah lee, which is available now. in paperback. >> deborah joins. >> us now, i'm happy to say, following her 13. >> year tenure. as ceo of bet. >> deborah now serves as a director on the boards of warner

brothers, discovery, marriott. international and procter and gamble. also with us for the conversation, special correspondent at vanity fair. molly jong-fast, and president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation, the reverend al sharpton. our thanks to you. all for. being here, deborah. congratulations. >> paperback edition. >> of the book. >> thank you very much. >> when you wrote this, what were some of the goals you set out for the sort of the lessons or from your own experience. >> that you wanted to impart. >> on to others, particularly women. >> maybe even women. >> of color. >> in leadership roles? >> well, when i wrote. >> this book. >> i primarily wanted. >> to talk about my career as a black. >> female ceo. >> i started out as general counsel of bet and. >> worked my way over to the business side. >> but i looked. >> around when i. >> left bet and viacom in 2018 and realized. >> there were very few. black female ceos. still.

>> after i had. >> done it for 13 years, and i. wanted to show young women that it. >> was. >> possible. you can do it. >> it's something. >> you can. >> dream about. i never. wanted to be a ceo, but it worked out for me and i worked. >> hard and i. >> was, you know, associated with. >> a great company. >> but i wanted. >> to tell my. particular story. >> so hopefully to. inspire young women. >> and. >> men. >> and i've. >> had men come up to. >> me on the street corner. >> and say, you. >> know, miss lee, thank you. >> for what you've done for the culture. >> i see what. you did at bet. so it was a. >> personal story, but i wanted it to be one of. >> inspiration and i think it's needed even. >> more so. in 2025. >> yeah. >> for sure. >> one of the really cool things you do in this book is you talk about, like the disrespect that you encountered and how you handled that. will you talk a little bit about that?

>> yeah, it's interesting. beaches. black company. so people used to ask me. >> what's harder being, you know. >> being black or being a woman. >> and i used to. >> say, oh, there's really not a difference. >> and then when i ended up. >> at bet, we took black off the table because it. >> was a. >> black company. >> and it wasn't. >> until i was. >> appointed ceo, chief operating officer. that i really. >> learned how difficult it was. >> to be a woman in the corporate world. >> that on that day. i remember women. >> at bqe high. fiving me in the. >> hallway saying, we never thought this would happen. it's such a. >> boys club. >> we never. >> thought a woman. >> would make. >> her way to the top. >> but i. >> also inherited a group. >> of executives. >> that i didn't hire that. >> bob. >> johnson hired. >> all of whom wanted my job. i mean, it was very clear. >> bob kicked me out of the office after out. >> of the conference. >> room after. >> he made the announcement. and i found out later.

>> that he told the executives. don't worry, she can't. >> fire you, which is the worst thing. >> you can. >> do to a ceo. >> and six. >> months later, he had to go back in the room and change. >> that. because, you know, i'm a i'm a consensus builder. >> and i want. everyone to work. >> together and. >> you know. >> enjoy building debt and building. >> the. >> brand and. >> creating high quality programing. but so many. of the male executives didn't want to be part of my legacy. >> so it took me six years. >> to get my own. >> team and. >> that's it for us this saturday. we're back tomorrow at. >> 6 a.m. eastern. >> for more of the big conversations. >> from the. >> past week, thank you so much for watching. enjoy the rest of your saturday. >> good morning. >> it is. >> saturday, march 8th. i'm alicia menendez with symone sanders towns