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>> the skin. it works. >> like a dream. >> why didn't. >> someone think of this sooner? >> welcome back to the weekend. so democrats are going on offense after donald trump seemed to flip flop on how much authority he's giving elon musk to chainsaw the federal government. nbc news reports that trump told his cabinet secretaries this week that it's they who have ultimate firing authority, not musk. but it's still unclear whether trump actually means that, because less than two weeks ago, trump urged musk to be even more aggressive with his cuts. so which is it? either way, the confusion has spurred this. you know, encouraged and spurred democrats to host town halls

like this one in haymarket, haymarket, virginia, to hear directly from voters caught in the chaos, especially after republicans were advised to avoid holding down their own, you know, town halls in their neighborhoods so they can face the wrath of angry voters. don't want to do that, now, do we? joining us now is the host of that town hall, democratic congressman sue subramaniam of virginia. he sits on the house oversight committee. welcome, congressman, to the table. thanks for having me. >> we're just going to play a little sound from your town hall. and i'd like to note that, congressman, you were doing town halls before this directive went out to house democrats to do more town halls. and i think after we see this, these, this footage, we'll see why. take a listen. yeah. >> having served my country both in the military and afterwards to. >> be said that i'm. >> being terminated. >> for performance. >> issues, which is utterly untrue. just cut me to the quick. we have seen time and again over the last month where

these people are literally destroying lives indiscriminately. our story is one of far too many and this madness needs to stop. >> the benefit isn't. >> going to the veteran. >> they're they're. >> losing talent. >> they're losing advocates. >> and all that i ask is you fight this with the. >> same passion and. >> drive that the people that serve on the federal side do. >> all i ask is that you fight this with the same passion and drive that the people who serve on the federal side do. it seems to me when we talk about being the thermometer, taking the temperature of where the people are, at least in your district, people seem, tired, and they want you to do something. >> it's powerful, isn't it? right. just hearing the stories from the people directly have a lot of federal workers in my district, but i have a lot of people, too, who are hurt that are not federal workers. and one thing i keep hearing from the federal workers is that they're not just worried about their job, they're worried about the work that they were doing and how important it was to the american people. when you're talking about nuclear scientists who keep our nukes safe, right. a nuclear scientist came to our town hall that blew the whistle,

and now they're backtracking, right. i think what you're seeing is the trump administration is backtracking, and they're on defense now because we keep putting the pressure by telling the stories and by speaking up. and so i tell people, you are not powerless. come out to the town halls or tell your story. we are listening, and we will echo that story and we will make change. >> and that fight is now happening inside of his own administration, among his own cabinet members. >> you. >> of course, saw the explosive. meeting this week where you had. >> cabinet members. >> clashing over elon musk. as the times writes, the meeting was a potential turning point after the frenetic first weeks. >> of mr. trump's second term. >> it yielded. >> the first. >> significant indication that. >> mr. trump was. >> willing to. >> put. >> some limits on mr. >> musk, whose efforts. >> have. >> become the subject of several lawsuits and prompted. >> concerns from republican. >> lawmakers. >> some of whom have complained. >> directly to the president. i'm not 100% sure i agree with that analysis, but i say it all to tee us up so that you can listen to donald trump answering some questions. >> about that meeting. >> take a listen. >> mr. president. >> since you last spoke about.

>> it yesterday, some. >> details have come out about your cabinet meeting with elon. musk and some. >> clashes potentially between secretary rubio. >> and secretary duffy. >> i was there, you're just a troublemaker. and you're not supposed to be asking that question because we're talking about the world cup. but elon musk gets along great with marco and they're both doing a fantastic job. there is no clash. >> mr. president who. >> bottom line. >> who are you with? >> nbc. >> one day, mr. president who. has more. >> authority elon. >> musk or your cabinet secretaries. >> any other questions? >> congressman that was. >> our colleague. >> gabe gutierrez. >> i don't know about you, but i. >> think the lady doth protest too much. >> oh, boy. >> yes. >> i mean, i'm a troublemaker, too, so, you know, we hear you, gabe. but you know more than that. i mean, again, he's trying to make everyone happy. he's making nobody happy right now. and, you know, he wanted to give, you know, elon musk free rein to do whatever he wanted. and the agency heads were pushing back because again, it's bad for the american people. and the american people are speaking

up. and so i tell people, keep speaking up, keep fighting back because it's working. i know i will certainly. >> yeah. >> you know. >> congressman, this this whole doge thing, this is where i kind of come down at the end of the day, i know republicans control the house and the senate and have ceded that authority. but as we saw at the at the speech last week, there are there are statements that the democrats can make and to, to sort of, i guess visually, you know, rhetorically or otherwise, stand with the people who were at the mic at your town hall to show some, some leaning in, some risk that they're willing to take. senator, congressman al green took a risk on behalf of a lot of people out there to point out that the president in that moment, from that, from that podium, was lying and he was lying to the american people

about their health care, about what what is going to happen to them. you took that risk as well by inviting your community to come and, okay, talk to me. tell me what's impacting you. i put you in a little awkward position. why does it seem that that's so hard to do? across the board? you had ten democrats vote to censure al green. that i'd be honest with. you wouldn't have happened in a republican scenario playing out, because there would have been the discipline of knowing we're all going to do this together. to make the bigger point is, do you see that changing inside the democratic caucus, where more folks are going to take that risk, like you and senator congressman green? >> well, i'll say this when we have a pretty united message right now, we are going to fight these cuts in medicaid and social security. we're going to fight this budget. we're going to be fighting a lot of what's happening at doge because it's affecting all of our communities. so we have a united message now. the way people deliver that message might be

different, right? some people might be more aggressive, like congressman green was. some people have a different way, like, you know, senator fetterman. right. but we have the same message, which is, you know, what's happening is not good for the american people. and i think that's really important. so, you know, my the way i do it is i tell the stories i get on the house floor and i point out the hypocrisy and the corruption. right. but, you know, we've got other people doing it in other ways. and that's okay. >> i think, i think the diversity amongst the democratic, the democratic electorate in the caucus is the challenge, but also the opportunity, frankly. but i just have to wonder, you know, it feels like a tough time to be a democrat elected to congress because people are like, the democrats aren't doing enough. the democrats ain't doing this. boo the democrats are you all at least even a little bit frustrated with the fact that i think that you have your finger on the pulse of where the people are, especially in your district, but you also just recently came from the local level state legislature, right? so you had to be close to the

people. are you at all frustrated, or any of your colleagues frustrated by the fact that there it seems to be that there are some people within the caucus that maybe aren't as close to the people, therefore there there's maybe a little bit of a disconnect in what the temperature is. >> no, actually, our caucus is quite united. i'm not just saying that it's true. like we are all actually in this together. we're pretty united. you know, when the leadership works with us, they understand that our districts are all pretty different. so, you know, and for me, i'd say that i mean, honestly, if i wasn't here, i'd be home yelling at the tv like. i'm glad i'm here to be able to fight back and push back, right. and be in congress. and so we all see that opportunity to be able to empower the american people. we're just doing it in different ways. right? i'm sure you know, congressman green is a hero back home in houston. and i'm sure, you know, senator fetterman has big fans in pennsylvania, right? so we're all doing it differently. but i think it's working. if you're looking looking at the results, like the stuff that happened 2 or 3 weeks ago, it takes a little bit of time. but, you know, courts are overturning it.

but more importantly, the courts of public opinion are pushing back as well. so i say to people, keep fighting in the way that you need to fight. >> while it takes that time. you have workers who've been laid off who are looking for new employment, and they're having difficulty finding it because, as the washington post reports, you have folks who have been terminated. >> and they were. >> told it was. >> for. >> quote. >> performance reasons. >> despite glowing evaluations, but they could improve that to. potential employers. after getting locked. >> out of their files. >> several worried. >> that president. >> donald trump and musk were. >> torching their. >> professional reputations. >> i mean, what is the path forward for those folks? and in your role, is. >> there a. >> way to help them. through this process? >> yeah. you know, one, it's illegal. a lot of the stuff that they're doing, but two, you know, the folks that they're firing are people who are irreplaceable. like they are so essential to, you know, keeping people safe, keeping people healthy. we're talking about scientists. we're talking about veterans who have a ton of experience. many of them are disabled veterans. right. and so, you know, these folks

deserve better. they had great reviews. they were doing the job that was asked of them. they've done nothing wrong, but they don't even care who's president. they just want to do a good job. and so we're going to fight that in court. but you know, i say again, bring more light to it. we had a call the other day where 3 or 400 veterans came on, and they shared their stories. and again, by hearing the stories, the administration starts to buckle. they start to cede ground. and so i say, keep fighting. >> i don't know if you are on the house democrat rapid response committee, but they need to add you. so they just congressman. >> suhas subramanian of virginia, thank you so much. for being with us. straight ahead. democratic attorneys general held their first community impact hearing to hear directly from even more. >> voters about their. >> frustrations with doge. this is the weekend on msnbc. they repair sync like we planned. >> sadly. >> windshield chips.

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100 days, rachel maddow is on five nights a week. >> more than ever. this is not a time to pretend this isn't happening. >> the rachel maddow show weeknights at 9:00 on msnbc. msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> this week in phoenix, a group

of. >> democratic attorneys. >> general kicked off what's going to be a series of community impact hearings in cities across the country. the goal to hear. >> firsthand how. >> trump and elon musks. >> cuts to the federal. >> government are hurting americans, and even appeal to trump supporters. >> i just wanted to take a second to speak. >> directly to maga. >> we are all. >> going to. >> suffer from these. >> the consequences. >> of these actions. >> and i. personally want to. >> welcome you to. >> peacefully and. >> nonviolently protest alongside with us. against all of these issues, because this is bigger than one political party. this will affect us all. >> hearing from the people, we love it. i also. >> like did you see her shirt people first project and. >> i need a shirt. actually. >> you know. i love it. i think it's the energy is growing and it's good and it's spreading across the country. it clearly is having an impact because

republicans are running away from it. democrats are trying, as we just discussed with the congressman, to lean into it in a very effective way to sort of galvanize it even more. but there's still, for me, has to be an end game, because i keep saying that those of us who that are relying on the courts to be the bulwark against all of this, don't do it. you're going to need more than that. and so far, it's holding, there's no doubt. >> but when you say an end game, what would an end game look like? >> well that's, that's that's a that's a big part of it. i mean, part of that end game is going to be putting putting more direct pressure on this congress because the margins are so close. you've got the lane to do it. it's not like republicans are sitting there with a 30 seat majority, in which case, okay, that that's that's a hill, but with two seats and they just lost another seat in a special

election. so, you know, the reality of it is there is that opportunity to say no, right. if the members of the house won't do it, let's make the house do it. we put them there, right? >> last time i. >> checked the constitution, we are the ones who elected them. >> this is true. >> they didn't elect us. we elected them. so, you know, that's what i'm loving about the energy in these town hall meetings that now needs to get translated to the streets. so it will be a very interesting summer, because this is when all of this is really going to land, because you'll be two, three, four months into it. so all of those agencies that are now being disrupted and torn and ripped asunder. it was simone and i were talking at one point during the break. who's who's going to process that form? who's, who's going to process. you know, they're rolling back education educational dollars. so do i. >> do i make my payment. well not he out. yes i did ask if i should be making my student loan

payments. because if they're going to get rid of the department of education, who is getting my money? do i need to make the payment this month? these are questions lots of people have, not just me. i'm a regular millennial, just like everybody else. i think michael is right about how it's coming to a head, likely this summer. i think that these town halls are are good because they're giving people an outlet. and then maybe the folks that are that come there, they meet some other people there, and then they decide to go off and do their own thing. another one is scheduled for march 20th in minnesota. the attorney general there is keith ellison, and the attorney generals are going to be releasing information about a freedom of information act request that seeks the number of, you know, folks, i.e, veterans and spouses of veterans who have been fired as a result of these cuts. so we're going to we're going to see how this all comes to a head. yeah. i do think a. >> thing we're going to start hearing about is this desire on the part of elon musk to privatize. >> the post. >> office and amtrak. >> that was on amtrak. i was on an amtrak yesterday. i'm not looking for it to be privatized, but i just i want us to we do

need to just judge it up. >> well, they are they are. are they not? >> my car. well, look. no, there there is. joe biden is an amtrak guy, so amtrak was taken care of. trust me. and i know that one of the stations that i get that i use frequently, it is going through a whole new remake right now. >> what about the cars? >> but they are their new cars that are coming online. unless this administration kills it, unless elon musk kills it. and in an effort to privatize amtrak and other aspects, what better way to make the case than to disrupt it by not improving it? >> and i'm just trying to get his companies in there. he wants to privatize. of course he is. he can take hold of it and get the money. >> of course. >> he is. it's all connected. >> look, the biggest investigation this congress needs to do is into elon musk. so. but who's going to do that ahead? if republicans get the budget they want, it could mean budget they want, it could mean massive cuts. ♪

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a second thought to being the first ones in. thank you, servpro, a proud. supporter of. >> our. >> nation's first responders. >> congress has less than a week to prevent a government shutdown, and house republicans are coming face to face with the very ugly reality of what it will take to get the budget that they want. you've got the nonpartisan congressional budget office now saying that republicans won't be able to meet their goal of cutting $1.5 trillion in spending over the next ten years without significant cuts to medicare or medicaid benefits. politico reports that republicans are hoping to release text of a spending bill as early as today. joining us now is someone that knows a little something about budgets. democratic congressman brendan boyle of pennsylvania. he is the ranking member of the house budget committee and an avid amtrak rider, if i may add. congressman. >> it is good to see you. >> simone did. >> some of this level setting earlier about medicaid, but.

>> i want to pull up. >> the numbers again. >> you got. >> 72.1 million. >> americans enrolled. >> 1 in. >> 5. >> americans covered. >> overall, 80%. >> of. >> children in poverty, 63%. >> of people in nursing homes. >> 29% of. adults with mental illness. okay, so you take that. those are the stakes. >> of the. >> people in this. >> country and then. >> their families around them who rely on the program. >> now. >> let's look at. >> the math, and i'm. >> going to guess you are better. >> at math. >> than the republicans who. >> are putting together. >> these bills. >> because they have available to cut. outside of medicare and medicaid, $581 billion. >> their goal for cuts. >> is $880 billion. >> tell me. >> how that. >> math math. >> without cutting medicaid or medicare? >> well, it's great to. >> be with you. and yes, you know, when we had a 12 hour committee hearing what we call markup on their legislation, i kept pointing out that their legislation requires hundreds of billions of dollars worth of

cuts to medicaid. they, of course, including their number two, steve scalise, would come back and say, oh, no, we wouldn't cut medicaid. you can't even find the word in the bill. it was very disingenuous on their part, because as your math shows, and as i asked the congressional budget office to confirm, even if you cut 100% of everything else, still, in order to reach that $880 billion total cut figure, you would have to cut hundreds of billions of dollars from medicaid. so there is no doubt this legislation, the republican tax cut plan, calls for the largest cuts to medicaid in american history, all to help pay for tax cuts that mostly go to billionaires. >> congressman, in addition to the drama around the cut, no cuts of medicare and medicaid by

republicans. you have speaker johnson right now out there peddling this idea with among republicans to get on board with a stopgap bill that would largely keep the federal dollars flowing through the end of this fiscal year, which is september 30th. some are seeing this as a little bit of a surrender by republicans on this issue, because it will keep in place the budgetary levels and priorities of the former president, joe biden, which, of course, oh my god, donald trump and company must be losing their minds that we do anything that relates to joe biden. how do how do democrats see this situation right now going into what is a countdown clock on whether or not the government stays open? is it is it in line with what some are reporting, that democrats doubt that trump will even abide by the next spending bill, making them less, even less inclined to vote for it? or is there something else going on

in that regard? >> well, you. >> know, i think there are. >> a few things happening at the same time. first, let's just be clear. republicans control the house, republicans control the senate. republicans have the white house. if there ends up being a government shutdown, it will be because republicans want a government shutdown. so that's the first thing. the second thing i would argue we are already in a partial government shutdown, and that's because of what elon musk and his doge frat bros are doing. ad hoc agency by agency, without any warning, without any force of law behind them, just showing up with five us marshals, throwing people out and shutting things down, whether it's usaid, consumer financial protection bureau, education department may be next. >> who knows. >> what will be next after that? so my view is, if we're going to get back to the actual budget

resolution that was last agreed to, and we're going to continue that, well, that means reversing the illegal activity that elon musk and his bros have been doing over the last six weeks. because if you really want me to vote for something, i need to have the peace of mind and the guarantee that if i vote for a bill on friday, all of a sudden on saturday, elon musk won't show up and shut the agency down that i just. >> agreed. >> to fund. >> i mean, well, table then, ite like there is no way that in good faith, your republican colleagues can promise you all that because they don't have control over elon musk right now at this point. i mean, the president is saying that now elon musk is just an advisor. but i think that that is frankly, just messaging to kind of clear up the mess that he's made as opposed to an actual policy change. so it seems to me like you all can't get the

insurances that you would need to support anything that your republican colleagues would put forward. so can we expect that democrats are going to hold the line? >> well, i mean, i don't speak for my fellow colleagues. i respect them. they'll come to their own judgments. and we're fortunate to have a great leader in hakeem jeffries that i have a lot of confidence in. and i think we'll make sure that we remain unified. but as for me, any sort of agreement on any piece of legislation i think needs to be made with donald trump, because we do know that speaker johnson has no ability whatsoever to enforce any sort of agreement. we saw that last december, because the reality is. >> we are raising our cups to you, congressman, we're raising our cups. you're the first member of congress. i have heard you say that. >> yeah, yeah. >> yeah. there's no question mike johnson speakership is one tweet from donald trump away from ending. that's the sad reality. so donald trump has all the power here on the republican

side. any agreement we reach needs to be with him directly. >> real quick before we allow. you to go, congressman, talk to us about the. >> post office and. >> about amtrak and the fact that you have elon musk reiterating something we have heard before, that both of those. institutions ought to be privatized. >> well, it is amazing, by the way, the post office founded by someone who would have been my constituent, benjamin franklin, in my congressional district, is where it was founded. it has the highest approval rating of any agency within the us federal government. it actually operates as quasi independent as it is. i think that attempting to privatize the most popular part of government would indeed be deeply unpopular. and then as far as amtrak, a subject near and dear to my heart, former president biden and i probably talked about amtrak more than maybe any other topic in the northeast corridor, in the dc to new york, to boston, part of our country, which is the biggest

generator of our national gdp. amtrak is absolutely vital. i cannot imagine what would happen if we lost amtrak. i don't know how i would get to work, by the way, every week, as someone who frequently is on amtrak multiple times a week, it would have a devastating impact on our economy. >> well, right after the show, i'm going to go update benjamin franklin's wikipedia page to say. >> would. >> be brendan boyle, constituent. >> i love that as a flex. thank you so much, congressman, for being with us next. donald trump is expanding his campaign of retribution at the justice retribution at the justice department. you're watching [dog whimpering] sorry bud, not while i weed. [loud splash] ♪ who let the dogs out? ♪ ♪ spruce! spruce, spruce, spruce, spruce! ♪ ♪♪ hey, who let the dogs out?! spruce - a new weed and grass killer that's safe for use around people and pets! does it actually work? [music whittles out] visible results in 1 hour and dead weeds in 1 day. [robotic voice] spruce. works. spruce - the new, hard-working,

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administration's department of justice. >> the administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> maine justice new episodes drop every tuesday. >> donald trump and his lackeys. >> took. >> a flurry of actions late this week that further weaponized the justice department and escalate his war against perceived enemies. first, he signed an executive order to strip security clearances from employees at a law firm that represented democrats during the 2016 presidential campaign. then, justice department officials placed on leave two federal prosecutors who worked on the case against new york city mayor eric adams, and then finally several top career officials were removed from the justice department late yesterday, including united states pardon. attorney liz over joining us now, former fbi general counsel and msnbc legal analyst andrew weissman. my man back in the hot seat.

>> andrew, first of all, i thought andrew was also going to have on a turtleneck today like you. there we go. y'all were going to be twinning. >> we're working. i you. >> know, he looks like a very demure british aristocrat today. >> i say love. here we go. >> andrew, can we start with. let's start with the law firm? i not only is donald trump his executive? first of all, is the executive order even legal? like, can you do an executive order against a specific company? this sounds something that is not akin to a democracy. and the executive order says it was suspended in the act of security clearances, as michael noted, terminate any contract for which perkins coie has been hired, and it pushes the equal opportunity, the equal employment opportunity commission, to review dei practices at large law firms. this seems like a grotesque overreach. >> yeah. >> grotesque is. exactly right. >> so just let's just step back there. there is. >> an attack.

>> on a law firm for. >> representing people in the same way. >> that the. president attacked covington burling for. >> respected law. >> firm. >> for. representing jack smith. if there's any, any president. >> of the united states. >> who should respect defense. >> counsel, it's this one. >> he knows. >> exactly how important it is to have defense counsel, how much that is a noble profession. >> in fact, he has installed his own personal. >> counsel at the very. top of the justice department. >> in the. >> number one, two and three positions. >> and just to be a little. >> nerdy. >> since that's what i think. that's my sweet spot. >> if you compare. >> donald trump to john. adams to go way back. >> to the 18th century, john adams. >> began his. >> career representing. british soldiers. >> understanding, extremely. >> unpopular, understanding that that. >> was a noble. part of.

>> what it meant to. be in this country. >> and he actually got six. >> of the eight of them off in a criminal case. and that. >> is really sort of an. >> example of. how far we've come that you. >> just. >> basically denigrate the entire legal. >> system because. >> you're a. transactional president. >> and these adams prosecutors are being let go. where does that fit in? >> that is part of the same thing. >> the idea that. >> there is no. >> civil service, that is just you're just decimating people who you think are going to be loyalists, and. they're going to obey their oaths of office to the constitution. and you see that with getting rid of. >> the pardon attorney. >> getting rid of the prosecutors who are on the adams case, the. >> recent filing by the. justice department in. >> the adams case. is shockwaves. >> within the legal. >> community because it is. >> like people. >> eating their own. i mean, it is it is a meal. beauvais and todd blanche. >> who are the only two signatories. >> by the. >> way, on the filing because. >> they.

>> apparently can't get a career person to sign it and it's just scorched earth on what they're trying. >> to do there. >> with, you know. as you've seen career people in the justice department, both prosecutors and agents. >> pushing back. >> so, so my friend on earth two, joe biden, was reelected and decided to go after the lawyers who represented donald trump and donald trump was okay with that. just just wanted to put that out there. for the record, on earth to. >> say he wasn't impeached. >> and he wasn't impeached. right, right. so just so we. >> know, joe biden could do anything if he. >> yeah. so joe biden, joe biden did exactly that and donald trump was okay with it. but here's the here's something that's a little bit closer to reality on earth one. and it's the effort by the trump allies in the form of pam bondi, attorney general pam bondi, brother bradley bondi and top deputy to ed martin, the interim

u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, vying for leadership roles at the dc bar association. and the point there is to take control of the dc bar following warnings that the trump administration officials have directed that bar associations across the country, which lawyers inside and outside the government have suggested could play a role in slowing down legally questionable elements of trump's agenda. look, you know, i'm on the record saying those who are looking at our courts as the bulwark against what's happening, be mindful. that's not going to be enough. here's another example of why that's not going to be enough. because if you weaken the approach to the courts in the first instance, what do you have, andrew? i mean, what are you hearing from lawyers? i mean, i'm a member of the bar in dc and pennsylvania. what what what are lawyers saying about the assault on the profession and

the rottening of it by these efforts? >> so i couldn't agree. >> with you more that the courts. >> are not the answer. they are part of the answer. and they. certainly can signal. >> to the public. what is. going on in the same way. >> beryl howell. >> the former. >> chief judge. >> of the dc district. >> court, to, you. >> know, this week was. >> talking about. >> trump being. >> a king and what he is doing. >> is illegal. and so. >> it helps. >> with both slowing it. >> it helps with. >> signaling to the public what. >> is going on. but i agree. with you. it's not the answer. >> here we. >> have this effort to. >> take over bar. >> associations. >> which we've seen. >> and this. >> is where i'm proud to be. >> a lawyer, where the where. >> these bar. associations which license us to practice. >> have taken actions. >> most notably. >> people will remember they took actions with respect to rudy. >> giuliani. >> but it's not. >> a big picture. answer to.

>> the problem. yes, there. >> can be sanctions up to. >> and including disbarment, but that's not going to. slow somebody like. pam bondi or. donald trump. >> in. >> terms of what they are. >> doing here. >> the reaction, though, to from. >> the bar is people. >> are appalled. >> i mean. >> this is. where you don't have to be a prosecutor. >> or. >> a defense. >> lawyer to. >> or a judge to understand. that you do not. attack people for simply doing their job. >> whether you are. >> defense counsel, whether. >> you are. >> a line fbi agent, whether you are a career prosecutor, those are what makes. >> our. >> government work. that is what the rule of law is and looks like, and that there's a sort of full on assault from this. >> administration on all of those people. >> i'm i alicia, is going to ask a real question about hampton. hampton. dellinger. dellinger. >> oh, my god, you know me.

>> too well. i know. >> you hate it. >> alicia was on to hampton dellinger story before everybody else was. i just want to note she was she was committed to the questioning around it, which made sense to me. my question is, just, are we supposed to leave? pam bondi's brother got his job because he's because of merit or because he's pam bondi, his brother? >> yeah, well. so. >> michael, i. >> i'm pretty sure. >> it's not merit. >> i mean, look, this is. >> a great story for you to be covering because. >> it is really. >> important for people. >> to see that this is the infiltration. >> of yet another institution and trying. >> to put people. >> in place who are going to be loyalists and. >> that. you know. >> ed martin. >> what he has. >> been doing has caused. >> all sorts of people, from the aba to former people who worked in that very office. >> republicans and democrats should. >> you know, career apolitical. >> people talking about.

>> just how insidious his conduct is. and one. >> of the things. that has. >> led to. >> is people filing complaints with the. >> bar association with respect to. >> what he is doing. here's just one example for people. he was the defense lawyer on a criminal case, while he was also the head prosecutor. >> and then. >> moved to dismiss the case while he was still the. >> defense lawyer. >> guess what? >> that is not allowed. >> and so if you take over the bar association, who do you go to? who do you go to? and that's really. >> what brings. >> it back to michael's point, which is the courts and the bar associations are. have a role. but that's not the. role that if the people do not. >> respond to. >> this, that is the sort of the end game here. >> it has to be people responding, because that's the only. >> sort of real check. >> we have. >> so to this question. >> thank you, simone, for knowing me so well about who we go to. >> let's talk about. >> hampton dellinger, who had been the head of the office of

special counsel until he was unceremoniously released by the trump administration. >> he has said. he's going to drop his case after a federal appeals. >> court sided. >> with the trump administration in. >> removing him as the head of that office. so who do you go to now if you're a whistleblower? who do you go to if you're an affected. government employee? >> yeah, i mean, that is a great question. so that he used. >> to run this. >> sort of quasi. >> independent agency, and that was the place that you went to and where you could get protection. >> the only other. >> place that's sort of. around right now. unless there is going to be some. >> other independent. >> person put into the. >> office of special counsel. >> i mean, that's that's not going to happen. >> i mean. >> mr. dellinger himself has said that the. >> person who's going to replace him is. >> not going to be. >> serving that function is congress. >> and there, you know, it's not like. >> we've seen. >> congress provide those kind of protections. but. >> you know, to be fair. >> senator grassley has always been. >> sort of a huge. proponent of whistleblower protections. i

don't. >> see the senate, you know. >> really standing. >> up here, but. >> that the main. >> answer now is you have, you know, congressional protection. >> to the. >> extent that still exists. >> andrew weissman, as always, thank you so much. >> for being. >> with us. you can hear much more of andrew on msnbc's main justice podcast. you can scan the qr code on your screen right now to start listening today. this week, he and co-host. mary mccord dissect the white house's attack on lawyers and what that could mean for the rule of law. we've got much more ahead after this. you're watching the weekend on msnbc. for the times when cooking just isn't in the cards, try brand new ready made meals from hellofresh. no prepping, no cooking. just heat prepping, no cooking. just heat up and dig in to delicious (man) got one more antoine. (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪

(man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen. it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today.

for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you'll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're helping to protect the rights

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save even more at our parking lot sale going on now. is important to remember there are still checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now, and it is really important to pay attention to it, but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try to remember we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun. >> i. tonight defying gravity. kiss me. goodbye. i'm defying gravity. and you can't pull me down. well.

>> elphaba may. >> be defying. >> gravity. >> but. >> you know who isn't? elon musk on thursday, a spacex. >> starship rocket. >> exploded just minutes into its test flight. the faa. >> temporarily stopped air traffic. >> around. >> miami. >> fort lauderdale, west. palm beach and orlando. >> it is the second consecutive starship test flight. from elon musk's company to end with destruction. >> all i could think about was, oh, i can't think. >> no. >> please don't. oh. >> that's good, that's good. we got it. we understand how painful that was for you all. >> out there. >> just as watching these things blow up. >> this is. >> where. you tell us that you starred as glinda in your. >> yeah, you bet. production of wicked. >> no, no, no, but i've done a number of shows. but anyway. >> why did they let him put this rocket up in the air after they had. they were still investigating the last explosion. well, so this. >> this is the thing. okay. yeah, that and that's probably why it exploded. but the thing

the thing to keep in mind is i my suggestion for elon, his his response to all of this was rockets are hard. and mr. musk, if they're so hard, why don't you go back to your day job and work that out and leave those of us who do government to do government, because you can't do both. and clearly you're failing right now at both. your rockets are blowing up and the government's blowing up. so i suggest you concentrate on the one thing you think you know more about, and do that and leave the rest. to those of us who know a little bit of how to provide services to people who need them and make the government function, not to say that it can't be changed. yeah, there are changes that need to be made in government, just like there may be some changes you need to do with your rocket program. so the ish don't blow up every time it goes up in the sky, because that's billions of dollars wasted too. i think there should be a federal

investigation. i think doe should take a close look at how those dollars are being spent right now, because clearly we're not getting our money's worth. so just a thought. >> there's a ground. >> stop because rockets are hard. >> to michael. >> so is government. >> alicia. there was a ground stop like, yes, perhaps mr. musk needs to take a tougher a tougher tact and look at what his quote unquote real job is because this rocket blowing up affected airports and fort lauderdale and miami, there was ground. for jurisdictions. >> ground stop. and that cost money. all right. >> so did you guys see the tweet from representative jasmine crockett about this? >> oh yes. oh yes. please put it up. >> is it the guy that keeps blowing stuff up literally and figuratively, is firing people claiming that they are failures? we know his. >> failures have nothing to. >> do with. >> dei because he doesn't believe. >> in it, but he'd. >> possibly be succeeding right. >> now if he did. >> you see, clearly there's a lot. of unqualified. >> people running this thing. >> well, there you go. like i

said back. >> to simone's metaphor. >> remember the theme? >> we couldn't figure it out. the thermostat, the. >> thermometer, the thermometer. >> wanted to be. >> this is also a perfect metaphor, right? >> for the fact. >> that he is. >> just doing things that he can't quite figure. >> out how to do. >> and meanwhile it is real people. >> who are suffering the consequences. >> all those people. whose claims were circling the skies, waiting. >> to land, who could not. >> land because. >> he can't figure. >> out. >> his. >> rocket business. >> come on now, this is not a tesla factory. this is the united states government. >> well, we've seen we've seen the teslas on fire, too. >> so. well, we have actually. i think this is the this is the plan maybe to tear it all up. that's what i. >> think the brother needs to do some work at home. >> well, y'all. >> your roof is leaking. >> that does it for the weekend. really? because i wanted to say something about. >> his eugene daniels. look. >> let's let's do it. yo, this will be the goodbye. here you go. >> that turtleneck is giving eugene daniels. that's all i have to say. >> and we love that, because eugene daniels will soon be one of the co-hosts of the weekend.

there you go. right here, right here. but y'all have us for the next couple of weeks, so we'll see you back here tomorrow. canada's minister of finance dominic leblanc will be here. be sure to follow us on social media. folks at the weekend, msnbc. velshi is up next. melissa murray is guest hosting. she's the one that said michael looked like a british aristocrat. and al green is joining her to discuss his censure this week for disrupting trump's speech. that's a short break. coming up next. >> this one goes better with the walls. >> this is so much easier than the home improvement store. >> hey. >> yeah. >> some things are just better at home with empire's home floor advantage, you can compare. samples in your own space. plus, i'll be here to help you with every step of the process. >> call or visit empire today.com and get the home floor advantage. >> it really. >> is better. >> at home. empire today. introducing mcafee plus all in

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