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>> good morning. >> it's saturday. >> march 8th. >> i'm melissa murray filling in for my friend ali velshi. and we have. >> a. >> big show. >> this morning. >> congressman al green of texas will join me to talk about his. recent censure for disrupting the president's. >> joint address. >> to congress this week. we'll also talk about the devastating health care cuts. >> that prompted his. >> outburst and the democratic. >> strategy for holding the line against donald trump's encroachments on democracy. >> and the. >> dismantling of the. civil service. >> plus, from. >> slash and burn job cuts to tariff whiplash, we will talk about. >> the state of the. >> trump economy. just six weeks in. >> and you won't see it. >> this national abortion ban. >> unless you're actually. >> looking for it. >> and that's because republicans know that banning. abortion nationwide. >> is still deeply unpopular. >> nevertheless, two quiet. >> but key. >> developments this. >> week suggest that the trump administration may still have plans to. curtail abortion rights. >> across the country. >> but we begin this. morning

with the swirl of new. questions about the. >> power dynamic between. president trump and elon musk. >> after explosive. >> reporting from the new york times detailed. >> an abruptly. scheduled thursday. >> cabinet meeting. >> where. >> tensions erupted between musk, trump's unelected, unconfirmed billionaire donor and special government employee and his cabinet members, who are all chafing. at musk's encroachments on their agencies. >> the new york times, citing five. >> sources with knowledge of the events. >> reports that trump told. >> the group. >> >> and the musk. >> team would only advise. >> but there was also. >> this important caveat. .ccording to the times >> is unclear what. >> the long term impact of the meeting will be. >> mr. musk remains mr. trump's biggest. >> political financial supporter. >> just this week, his superpac. aired $1 million worth of ads that said, quote. >> thank you, mr. president. >> and mr. musk. control of the social media website x has made. administration staff members and

cabinet secretaries alike fearful that he will target. >> them in public. >> end quote. >> but even in the context of. >> this apparently. eruptive cabinet meeting. one thing was clear. >> although the cabinet secretaries. >> and musk. >> may differ as. >> to who. >> has. >> the authority. >> to carry out the. >> trump agenda. >> they are. >> all in. agreement as to what the goals of that agenda are. >> in this second. >> trump term. >> we are largely past. >> the point of considering whether the so-called adults in the room will. >> act as a check. >> on trump's more dangerous ideas. >> he has made sure that no one who could. >> be a dissenting voice is allowed in the room in the first place, so. >> it's now. >> up. >> to the co-equal branches of government. >> to be the last. >> line of defense against a would be authoritarian power grab. and anyone who. thought that the legislative branch might be. >> up to the task. >> well. they watched this week as congress rolled over in real time. republicans literally cheered trump's retribution agenda and the evisceration of. >> the civil service. and the. surrender of. >> power to an unelected,

unaccountable billionaire donor. >> while democrats. >> appeared to be. slightly aggrieved attendees of a private. school silent auction. >> so that. >> leaves us. >> with the courts. >> and it should be noted, if. >> you're looking. >> for the. >> last clear. >> chance to prop up democracy. >> against. >> a president and a majority political party that is intent on. toppling it. >> the judicial. >> branch is not ideal. >> courts challenges. >> tend to be very. specific and narrow, and they take a long time. >> to resolve. >> but beggars can't be choosers. and this dawning dystopia. and there are some positive signs from the judicial branch. for example, this week the supreme court weighed in on the trump administration's attempt to freeze $2 billion in foreign aid funds, a move that would have essentially dismantled usaid. chief justice. >> john roberts and amy coney barrett sided with the court's three liberal justices to uphold a lower court's order directing the government to unfreeze some of those funds, and following the supreme court's ruling, the lower court. >> judge that presided. >> over the case, judge amir

ali, directed the government to pay up by monday, march 10th. now, to be very clear, this was a narrow ruling that did not address core constitutional issues, and for now, it only applies to the plaintiffs who brought this case. the fate of hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding remains unresolved. nonetheless, it is an example of. how the courts are standing up to this administration. and another good example of that occurred on thursday, judge beryl howell of the united states district court in washington, d.c, rebuked president trump for firing gwynne wilcox, a member of the national labor relations board. judge howell wrote that president trump did not have the authority to fire wilcox, and that his attempt to do so was, quote, a blatant violation of the law. >> judge howell also ruled. >> that wilcox, who was the first black woman to ever serve on the nlrb, must be reinstated. the administration has appealed that ruling. but i'm not the

only person who sees the courts as potentially the last, best chance. >> to stop. >> donald trump from fully dismantling our democracy and seizing power. trump and his allies clearly see this, too. >> and that is. >> why we are now seeing. them escalate their attacks on judges and lawyers, whom they see as threats to trump's power. in recent weeks, elon musk, a special government employee, has. used his social media platform to criticize individual. >> judges who. >> have issued unfavorable rulings against the government. in various posts. he has called these judges corrupt, evil. >> and radical. >> which, according to reporting from reuters, has. >> led. >> to a heightened threat environment for judges. musk has also called for some of these judges to be impeached, which has led to a heightened threat environment again for judges, according to reuters. >> and a. few house. >> republicans have actually answered musk's call and filed impeachment resolutions against three judges, although it is very. >> unlikely that. >> these efforts will go anywhere. >> but all. >> of this is part of a broader effort to delegitimize the

courts. and instead, the white house has continued to go further, even targeting specific law firms as part of its apparent campaign of retribution. on thursday. >> the. >> president signed. >> an executive. >> order singling out. >> perkins coie, a prominent law firm that. >> did. >> legal work for democrats during the 2016 campaign. the executive order strips the firm's lawyers. of their security. >> clearances and access to. >> government buildings and government officials. >> last month, the white house took similar action. >> against covington and burling, a venerable d.c. law firm that has done pro bono work for jack smith, the special counsel who twice indicted president trump. joining me now to discuss all of this are. kate shaw, a law professor at the university of pennsylvania's penn carey school of law and my co-host on the strict scrutiny podcast. and joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama who is also the co-host of the sisters in law podcast and an msnbc contributor and columnist. kate. >> in the new. >> york times this week. >> you wrote about.

>> elon musk and you said, quote. the white. house has tied itself in knots trying to explain to the courts and to the public the nature of mr. musk's role. presumably that's because. >> it. >> seems clear that the constitution does not allow it. end quote. president trump. gave up the game. himself during his joint address on tuesday night, when he explicitly. said that. >> doge is headed. >> by musk. how consequential. is that admission for the lawsuits that are currently challenging musk's unusual role in this administration? >> well, good morning, melissa. and i. >> think that. >> admission actually. >> was pretty significant. i think, you know, presidents say a lot and i'm not. >> sure everything they say is or should be legally. >> salient in ongoing cases. >> but in the highly formalized. >> setting of. >> an address. >> to congress, where the. president makes a considered choice to announce the role. >> being played. >> by someone like. >> musk, where. >> there are. >> there were two at. >> the time. >> and there are. >> now three pending cases taking. >> square aim. >> at the. >> constitutionality of. >> musk at the head of. >> doge and where the administration had previously suggested musk. >> wasn't running doge.

>> this seems like an instance in which courts are going to be very interested. >> in what. >> that revelation means. >> about what musk. >> is. >> doing. >> and the legality of what of the way that he is doing it. >> so the case is. >> now three. >> of them that i wrote about in the times. >> suggest that the appointments. >> clause of the. >> constitution requires. very specific steps be taken before officials exercise. >> significant authority on behalf of the. united states. it's pretty clear. >> those steps haven't been. >> taken with. >> respect to musk. and so. >> potentially his. >> entire role. >> is profoundly unconstitutional. >> and i. >> do think that the. >> cases making. >> that claim. >> will be very. >> interested in and indeed, some of the plaintiffs have already drawn. >> to. >> the court's attention. this admission. >> from the president himself. >> all right, joyce. >> elon musk. >> is doing a. >> lot of things not simply existing in this very unorthodox. role within the government, but he's also leading a very public pressure campaign against judges. and it's having some real world consequences. judges are facing threats, and it's chipping away at the independence of the courts and the justice system. how dangerous is this moment for

democracy and for these individual judges? >> so any time the independence. >> of the judiciary is called into. >> question by. >> outside forces, it's serious. what's really problematic here is that there's not pushback. we're not seeing what you would normally expect to see when the judiciary is encumbered with this level of threat. and i think it's not too extreme to. contemplate what happened in latin american and central american countries when the judiciary was subjected to deleterious to delegitimization and to threats over their role. there were assassinations of judges. that was an effort to undercut the rule of law in those countries. we're obviously not at that point here, but. >> it's a moment. >> where people of good conscience and people. >> who. >> believe in democracy need to stand and take a unified position, regardless of party, about the importance of upholding the courts.

>> so, kate. >> joyce raises. >> a really important point. it seems like the courts are holding up pretty well as a check on the president's authority so far. but there's this ongoing effort to get judges and lawyers to bend the knee to the administration as well. what do you make of the law firm's efforts here? not all law firms have been stalwart in opposing these excesses of executive authority. and what can lawyers and any of us actually do to protect the independence of the judiciary in this really critical time? >> well, you. >> know, i. >> think i would. >> include within that question the. >> judiciary and sort of all the participants in the judicial. >> system, including. >> lawyers, as you mentioned in the opening. >> melissa, i think. >> that the developments. >> this last week. >> we had already. >> seen the. administration take. >> aim at covington and burling because of its. >> representation of. special counsel. >> jack smith. >> the executive. >> order this. >> week directed at. perkins coie was. >> also just. >> incredibly chilling, right. >> these are. >> just law firms. >> doing their. >> jobs. >> taking on representations. >> that simply. >> happen to be. >> of disfavored.

>> causes or. >> individuals from the perspective. >> of. >> the president. and the entire apparatus of the state. >> is. >> being directed at these law firms because of the. >> representations they have taken on. >> or are. >> currently engaged in. >> and it's deeply. >> chilling, and. i think it's really. >> important to. >> joyce's point that the. >> legal profession writ large. >> and that. >> includes law firms. >> practicing lawyers, law. >> schools. >> sort of all of us, right, who get to speak publicly about the rule of law are very. >> very clear in. >> condemning these kinds of attacks, both on judges and on law firms simply doing their jobs. >> you know. >> this stuff is. >> sort of core. >> attacks on not just the. specifics of the constitution, but the. very concept of a rule. >> of law. >> and i. >> think that we all. >> need to. >> be very forceful. >> in that condemnation. >> and i do. >> think it's of a piece. >> with kind of the power. >> consolidation that you're opening really. >> talked about. >> right? >> you know. >> these efforts to. neutralize the. >> opposition. >> whether that's independent. >> officials inside the. >> executive branch. >> whether that's. >> congressional opposition. >> whether it's law. >> firms, whether it's judges.

like, really. this is about trying. >> to stamp. >> out critique and. >> opposition. >> which is just a profoundly. >> undemocratic effort. >> and i think. >> these are just the latest pieces. >> of evidence of that effort. >> so, joyce, kate just mentioned. >> that there's an entire apparatus within the legal system that could be standing toe to toe against this administration. and this week, the democratic members of the senate judiciary committee filed a misconduct complaint with the dc bar against ed martin, the acting u.s. attorney in the district of columbia. and in its letter, the democrats expressed grave concern over how martin has, quote, abused his position in several ways, including dismissing charges against his own client and using the threat of prosecution to intimidate government employees and chill the speech of private citizens. the other thing to note here. >> is that trump. >> allies have recently launched an effort to take control of the dc bar. attorney general pamela jo bondi's brother, is running to be president and a. top deputy for ed martin himself is running to be treasurer of the dc bar. is this effort to take over the dc. bar one of the last

sort of opposition forces and a means of disciplining lawyers, a concern to you at this point? >> so this should be a concern. >> to. >> all of us. >> i mean. >> i think. it's worth underscoring the point that you're making here, that bar associations are really the sole authority for disciplining attorneys who behave in an unethical manner if they're if their conduct crosses the line into criminality, that's a different story. but when. we're talking about conduct that violates bar rules, for instance, what we saw with rudy giuliani, the. bars are really the last resort for discipline. so this is a systematic, a very smart on their part effort to take over the bar association in dc, smart in the sense that it suggests that they understand what the stakes are and who the players are. >> and to. >> go back to what kate was talking about, to put. >> this in. >> context, this most recent executive order is a specific attack on the law. firm of perkins and cooley. but section

four of that order broadens the attack and directs the attorney general to look. >> at. >> all of the big law firms across the country to see if they're stepping out of line. it's a really dangerous moment, because if the lawyers are silenced at a point in time where the lawyers truly are, the guardrail between trump's efforts to override article. >> one of the constitution. >> and claim all of the power that's meant for congress for his own, then we're in deep trouble. in other words, it's important for all of the law firms to line up together, along with the courts and as citizens. our obligation is to be well informed about what's going on here. >> well. >> we are certainly able to do that with your insights. thank you so much. kate shaw and joyce vance. coming up, house republicans are pushing for a congressman, al green, to be stripped of his committee assignments following his protest during president trump's joint address to congress. congressman green joins us next. >> to talk about it. >> plus. >> we. >> now have. >> our. >> first jobs.

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deal that trump signed during his first term. these exemptions will only last for a month. this marks the second time in less than two months that trump has announced tariffs on our two north american neighbors, and. >> then. >> backtracked on them. joining me now to break down the good, the bad and the ugly of the american economy is caleb silver, editor in chief of investopedia. caleb, take. >> it. >> through it. let's go. what's the good, the bad and the ugly? >> yeah, well. >> the bad and the ugly pretty much has. >> been piling. >> up. >> for the last several weeks just because of. >> all this uncertainty. >> but let's put a few. >> things in perspective. especially the jobs report, 151,000 jobs. under any normal circumstance, that would be normal job growth. good job growth, 4.1%. unemployment is actually close to full employment. that's what the federal reserve is looking for in an economy, full employment. >> it has. >> been rising. and you mentioned the sectors, especially in government jobs. i don't think we felt the full effect of that. wages have also been steadily rising over the past couple of years. they're averaging around 4% beating inflation. not everyone feels that the same. but the fact that

we still have rising wages during this economic uncertainty, that's helpful for a lot of people and gas prices, that's usually the thing people talk about when they complain about inflation plus eggs. but gas prices have been pretty low, about $3.10 on average across the country, of course, more expensive out west. but that does weigh on people's spending. gas prices are a big deal when you start to look at the bad and things that have happened in the past several weeks, the stock market sell off, it doesn't affect everybody. about half the country is affected, is invested in the stock market one way or the other, but it does have a wealth effect. and when we see, you know, the sea of red on wall street day after day, or the stock market goes up in the morning and then sells off big in the afternoon, that does weigh on sentiment, ultimately, and that leads to some business and consumer spending slowdown. we've heard from businesses in manufacturing reports they're ordering less inventory because they can't predict prices right now. they don't know how much inventory they're going to need. they don't know how much it's going to cost. it's going to hold back their hiring efforts. it's going to hold back their spending efforts. that is obviously leading to consumer spending slowdown. we saw that drop off in january. not crazy

for that to happen in january because we're coming off of the holidays. but the precipitous slowdown, especially in discretionary spending, this is not the needs. this is this is the wants, right? this is the travel. this is the entertainment. we've seen a real slowdown there. you've heard it from walmart. you've heard it from the airlines. people are starting to pull back spending, especially wealthier income spenders and also growth fading. if you look at gdp forecast gross domestic product. right. that is really what drives the american economy. 70% of that is consumer spending. we're looking at a fall off at around 2.8% for the first quarter. that's a huge drop from where we were. this administration inherited an economy that was actually growing. >> that's very. >> rare over the last 20 years. usually the administration gets a recession when they come into office, not this one. when we look at the ugly. >> rate that. >> was that was not the ugly. that was just. >> the bad part. >> that was the bad. i'm getting ugly. >> okay. >> keep going. >> all right. no, we. >> got tariffs and we have. >> tariff uncertainty. >> tariff uncertainty causes this inability to forecast an ability to spend. look how many times this administration has

reversed course on the tariffs. that's making people very nervous. you know the stock market selloff is one thing. but everybody feels a tariff increase, especially if you're buying produce if you're buying groceries every week. obviously gas and the tariffs to come is also a big uncertainty. that could be semiconductors, that could be energy, that could be a lot of other things that we don't even know yet. but think about all the things we pay for and then consumer confidence and sentiment. i mentioned it multi year lows. we're starting to see this rise in credit card delinquencies not at an alarming level yet but back to 2011 levels. so people are overspending putting it on the credit card. deeper debt interest rates not a great mix. >> so does any of this get attributed to the new administration, or is this going to be a situation where, again, like the vibes during the biden administration, things are rising, but people don't feel it and they attribute it incorrectly, perhaps to the administration. is donald trump going to get any of the blame for any of this? >> he is. because when prices rise. >> who do people blame? they blame companies and they blame the government. but inflation was a big deal during the biden administration, and that's probably one of the reasons why they didn't get elected back

into office. so when you think about what people are looking at, they're looking at how much they have to spend on a weekly basis. it doesn't feel good to them. even though some of the headline numbers in the economy are strong, people's feeling the sentiment is weakening. and that's not good for spending, not good for growth. hopefully we can get to the other side of this. that's what the administration is hoping for. it's going to take a long time. >> all right. >> caleb silver, thank you for that random walk down wall street. >> appreciate it. >> all right. >> up next. >> i'm going to talk to democratic congressman al green about being censured about the. >> health care. >> cuts he was protesting when he disrupted the president's joint address to congress. and what comes next for him? that's up after the break. >> my hair. >> was thinning all around my hairline. >> my dermatologist recommended nutrafol. it's 100% drug free and clinically tested. >> my hair. >> is longer, thicker. >> nutrafol is life changing for me. >> get growing at nutrafol. com.

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floor this week, congressman green was formally censured on thursday for standing up and protesting president trump's address to congress on tuesday night. now. >> a. >> censure is symbolic. more than anything. it simply means that a majority of congress disapproved of green's actions on tuesday night, and that disapproval will now become a matter of public record. >> but during. >> that censure vote, green and a group of democrats saying we shall overcome, which forced speaker johnson to recess the house. >> and skip. >> the traditional reading of the reprimand. now some republicans. >> are pushing. >> for all. >> of those democrats to be stripped. >> of their committee assignments as well. congressman green knew he would face repercussions for taking a stand during the joint address, and that's not surprising. he has been fighting for civil rights for quite some time now. after his censure, the congressman tweeted this quote today the house gop censured me for speaking out for the american people against potus plan to cut medicaid. i accept the consequences of my actions, but i refuse to stay silent in the

face of injustice. hashtag we shall overcome. end quote. joining me now is congressman al green, democrat of texas. congressman, you said in a recent interview that president trump, quote. uses his incivility to take advantage of our civility. do you think your colleagues in the democratic party are being too civil during this time when american rights and freedoms are literally on the line? >> well. >> thank you for having me. >> i think we're. >> at a point where. >> we're making decisions as to how we should move forward. >> i believe. >> that we have to move forward with righteous incivility. >> this is. >> what we. >> engaged in when we. >> sang we shall. >> overcome and what. i engaged in when. >> i stood and indicated that the president didn't have a mandate to cut medicaid. medicaid is so important to so many in my state. texas has the highest rate of uninsured persons in the country, and it has such because it refused to

expand its medicaid under the affordable care act. we offered texas a $100 billion, which texas rejected. now, with reference to my colleagues, i have said the things that i do are of conscience. my conscience dictated that i do what i did. i am prepared to accept whatever. >> the punishment is. >> i don't have to agree with it, but i can accept it because that's what peaceful protest demands. first, it demands that you get in the way. this is what john lewis used to say, which means you're disruptive. and then you have to be prepared to suffer the consequences. i think that that would be inappropriate. >> for the. >> speaker to do or. >> my colleagues, but i'm prepared to. >> suffer the consequences. and by the way, candidly, and this is not to insult anyone, i. >> would do it again. >> because we have to stand. >> up for those. >> who cannot stand for themselves. >> so. >> congressman, ten of your democratic colleagues voted. >> to support your censure when that was presented to the floor. what's your response to them? i recognize you don't want to be

uncivil to your colleagues, but were you surprised that you didn't have the full support of the democratic caucus? >> i was neither. surprised nor. >> elated one way or another. >> i did this. not to get. >> a read of. >> what the congress. >> is all about. >> it was. >> something that. >> happened rather spontaneously. >> i was. gathering my things to leave. >> when the. >> president said he had a mandate. and that triggered something in me. i just could not allow him to. cause people to think that he. may have. >> a. >> mandate to. >> cut from medicaid. the committee. >> that has jurisdiction. >> over medicaid. >> has been. accorded the responsibility to. >> cut $880. >> billion from that budget. it is mathematically impossible for them to do that without cutting into medicaid. so the. >> reading that i got from my colleagues. >> it doesn't impact. >> me one. way or another. i believe that. >> on some issues it is better.

>> to stand alone than not stand at all. >> so you mentioned. >> the impact. >> of the medicaid. >> cuts on your constituents in the ninth district. what about the other cuts that are being undertaken by the trump administration? how will those directly impact the people of harris county, whom you represent? >> the va hospital is. >> in. >> my congressional district. many persons who work there. are very. >> much concerned. there is an air of fear, an aura of fear. >> that has. >> now permeated the hospital and many other places as well. people are concerned about these letters that are being sent. >> by a person who's never. >> been vetted, a. >> person who has. >> no assignment. >> that is. being announced, but who is in charge. >> of cutting people. >> and many of the people. >> who work. >> in the va. >> hospitals serve veterans, but they're veterans also. so we've got to be concerned about these persons. >> and i think.

>> we have to also just. >> say this. where's the dignity. >> in all of what he's doing? >> where's the dignity? a person who's. >> working, you have. >> children in school. >> you may. have someone that you're a. >> caregiver for. >> and you receive a letter indicating that you are no longer going to have the job. >> that is so important to. >> you, and to many. >> people who depend on you. it seems. >> to me. >> that there is. no due. process in this. >> but due. >> process is. >> one thing. another thing is just the dignity and the humanity. >> how do you treat people this way. >> when we know. >> that people have needs, they're not billionaires. mr. musk has doctors. >> and lawyers. >> and people on assigned to. >> take care of him. >> i don't know how we can say that it looks. right for a. billionaire to do this to everyday working people. >> we live in a. world where it's not. >> enough for things to be right. they must. >> also look right. this looks. >> a great place to leave it. >> representative green. it's not enough to do right. we have to make things look right for

everyone and to do right by them. that's democratic representative al green of texas. thank you so much, congressman. >> up next. >> linda mcmahon, the new secretary of education. >> says she is. >> ready to take on one of trump's, quote, most momentous campaign promises to families, end quote. and that promise, apparently. is to shut down the department of education and put herself out of a job. up next, i will talk to former education secretary arne duncan and lawyer judith browne-dianis. about what the department does and why dismantling it would be a profound mistake for american profound mistake for american families. dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur.

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would have caused the administrator to resign? right now, in our time today, the unpopularity of what they're doing really does create real political pressure at the source to stop it, to at least slow him down. >> the trump administration is reportedly preparing an executive order to dismantle the united states department of education. and while the president does not have the power to unilaterally abolish the entire department without congressional approval, students, parents, teachers and education advocates are bracing for what any actions against the department might mean for american students. on monday, the senate confirmed linda mcmahon, trump's pick to lead the doe. mcmahon is the former ceo of wwe pro wrestling, and in trump's first term, she served as the head of the small business administration. after nominating her to this new post in the department of education, trump had this to say about mcmahon.

>> linda mcmahon is going to be our future secretary of education, which we're going to be giving back to the states. let the state run education. i said, linda, i'm making you the secretary of education. but if you do a great job, you will put yourself out of a job because you're going to be sending it back to the states. and she's fantastic. >> the maga messaging around overhauling the department of education has emphasized parental choice, getting woke ideology out of schools and putting decisions about what students learn in the hands of parents and localities. but here's the thing. >> the education. >> department itself doesn't actually determine school curricula, nor does it determine what gets taught in classrooms. states and local school districts already have that authority. so what exactly does the department of education do, and what is mcmahon going to dismantle? well, the department

of education has four main functions. it distributes funds that support schools and colleges across the united states. it regulates the use of those funds. it enforces federal civil rights laws in the context of education, and it oversees research for how to improve school operations and outcomes. for example, the department of education enforces the individuals with disabilities education act, or idea, which gives millions of kids with learning differences and disabilities a federal right to access equitable education that meets their needs. likewise, the department enforces title one of the civil rights act, which authorizes programs that help nearly 30 million children in low income communities. under that law, the department of education disperses funds that allow schools with high rates of poverty to hire and train teachers, buy school supplies, and run after school programs, among other things. the department controls billions of dollars of federal funds that help low income families and school districts, as well as

students with disabilities. the doe also controls funding that determines whether a school can hire teachers and other learning service providers. that will help students with learning disabilities who have ieps individualized education programs. it determines whether schools can hire extra teachers to accommodate children with different reading and writing abilities. the department of education also oversees $1.5 trillion in student loan debt for nearly 43 million americans. it houses an office for civil rights, where families, students and teachers can seek support if they are experiencing discrimination in education. and even without the impending executive order, the trump administration has already taken steps to drastically change the way the doe operates. while mcmahon and the trump administration have said that they don't intend to end programs under either title one or the idea they have made some changes in federal funding, like

making the funding conditional on schools eliminating programs related to diversity, equity and inclusion. if they don't make those changes, the schools risk losing federal funds already, d.i. offices have closed, and many schools that receive federal funding have removed any mention of black history, gender and sexuality, as well as language related to climate change and environmental health. and doge has also cut $900 million from the education department's institute of education sciences, which leads the nation's program to track and improve american students academic progress. this week, the american civil liberties union and the national education association filed a lawsuit to stop the anti dea order. but if the trump administration gets its way, the department of education will cease to exist. coming up after a quick break, i'll discuss all of this with judith browne dianis, the executive producer of the advancement project, and arne duncan, the former secretary of

education under barack obama. education under barack obama. that's up next. (♪♪) (phone dings) for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura in adults, nurtec odt can provide relief in 2 hours which can last up to 2 days. (♪♪) don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur even days after use, like trouble breathing and rash. get help if you have trouble breathing, swelling of the face, mouth, tongue, or throat. common side effect is nausea. when migraine takes your time, take nurtec. ask your doctor about nurtec odt.

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>> staying up half the night reading executive. >> orders for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> welcome back to velshi. joining me now to discuss the impending changes to the department of education and its impact on american families are judith browne dianis. judith is an attorney, a civil rights advocate, and the executive director of the advancement project. also with us is arne duncan, who is the former secretary of education under president obama. he's also the author of the book how schools work an inside account of failure and success, from one of the nation's longest serving secretaries of education. judith, big question for you. the department of education's programs helped millions of american kids, more than 50,000 public schools, representing roughly two thirds of k through 12 students, benefit from title one and ida funds. what is the risk of the potential breakdown of the agency on those most

vulnerable students? >> well, melissa. >> you and i both know that brown versus board of education wasn't decided that long ago. 1954. and what we can predict will happen is that the dismantling. >> of the department of. >> education is that. >> there will be. no federal. >> oversight of education in. this country. >> this is a move toward. >> states rights. and states rights is what we fought in brown. >> versus board of education. >> and so we will see the money going back to schools. >> no oversight. >> or regulation. >> no civil. rights protections. >> and we have to understand that this is happening at the same time that this administration and the right is trying. >> to not only. >> dismantle public education by putting in place vouchers instead and eroding the separation between. state and church, so that people will be able to use taxpayer dollars to put their kids in private

schools. that will be religious schools, which were the ones that started their own segregation academies. instead of putting their kids in desegregated schools. >> so, arnie, secretary. >> mcmahon has said that the dismantling of the department of education is not intended to harm the students. rather, it's merely an effort to rationalize redundancies across the federal government. and what they actually plan to do is not eliminate these programs, but simply reallocate them to other agencies. but is there a potential risk to dividing up these programs into agencies, rather than having them all consolidated under the doe? >> well, there's a lot going on here. you never quite know what. >> trump is going to. >> do. >> or not do. >> but if. >> you just simply moving stuff to other departments, to hhs, to labor. >> to treasury, whatever. >> what you have is a bureaucratic nightmare. and what the department of education does. >> that you describe so. >> so perfectly. >> it just adds additional resources to our nation's most. >> vulnerable children, poor

children. >> children with special needs. >> rural children. millions of students going to college on pell grants. and if somehow you start taking away resources from our most vulnerable children who desperately need a. >> great. >> education, life. >> damage would. >> be extraordinary. >> when we talk about state rights with. >> republicans, you. >> always have to look to florida. florida is the bellwether and. >> what's happening in florida. they lead the nation in book bans. they have these crazy school board folks who want to do things that hurt, that hurt kids. and so it's just. talk about the curriculum has changed. so now they talk about the benefits of slavery for the enslaved. that's in the curriculum in florida. i don't think as a nation, that's where we want to go. >> yeah, they are talking about slavery like it's a hot new internship. judith, you mentioned earlier this shift from funding public education to instead funding vouchers that might be used for private schools or charter schools. and now there is a case pending before the supreme court that

would allow these voucher programs to be used for religious institutions as well. what is the shift to this kind of privatization of public education? what will the impact be on low income students and students with ieps, many of whom have more difficulty getting those kinds of necessary services in private or independent settings? >> well. >> i mean, there will be no guarantee that they will get those services. what will happen is that schools will be able. >> to choose. >> who they educate. we're already. >> seeing that with charter schools. >> and so what we will see is that there will be certain children who will be left out of the educational process, or that there will be schools that may educate them but won't provide all the svices th need. and that's with regard to equity issues to. >> low income children. >> are going to suffer also, because just imagine if i get a voucher. >> and i have. >> a lot of money and i can put that voucher towards high tuition. other and other schools are setting up for kids who just have a voucher and can't.

>> add any money. >> to it. then we're going to see segregation along race and income that will be worse than what we already have. >> so ani. >> on tuesday. >> night at the joint address before congress, the president claimed to have a mandate for this government rationalization that he and his administration have embarked upon. most americans thought that this this previous election was about the price of eggs or other economic issues. do any of them have any idea that these cuts that are intended to rationalize the government will actually have an impact on their children, on the way their children learn? and for those with children with special needs or learning disabilities or differences, how are they planning to accommodate these changes? if they even understand that they're coming? >> well, there's so much. >> that's so disturbing. >> but education should be the. >> ultimate bipartisan. >> or nonpartisan issue. >> there's nothing left to write about more kids having access to pre-k. >> and raising. >> reading test scores, which we desperately need to do, and more high school students going on to college and having that chance. what trump has done. >> is he's.

>> weaponized education. >> he's used it to divide. >> he attacks any three letter acronym d cell, crt, whatever it might be. and you can lie to parents, you can lie to the public about a lot of things. but if you start taking away resources from their children, from their vulnerable children, children with special needs, 7.5 million across the country, poor children, they live in rural communities. they live in urban. many of them vote republican. many of them vote democrat. if you start taking away resources from papa bear and mama. >> bear, watch out. >> he's going. to really, really pay a huge price. >> for doing that. >> and ernie, what will. >> the impact be. >> for those students who are attending college on pell grants who may be taking out student loans that are going to be administered and serviced by the federal government? how will those changes within the doe impact them? like, will we even have an apparatus to do that going forward? >> well. >> we don't know yet. but you know, the saying that you walk into a store, it says if you break it, you own it, you buy it. so if trump breaks these. >> things and then they. they are broken. >> to the public, broken to

students, he's going to own this in a really terrible way. and you probably saw yesterday he took $400 million from columbia university. he is not king. it is not his money. it's our money. and the supreme court challenged him on overseas aid. they're going to have to challenge him on domestic, you know, grants and aid. he does not have the right to do this. he is not a king. he is not a tyrant. people have to stand up together and challenge this or he will. he will stay silent or try and hide. he will pick everyone apart one by one. we have to be united in this effort. >> all right. strong words from judith browne-dianis and former secretary of education arne duncan. thank you so much. another hour of velshi begins after this quick break. stay after this quick break. stay tuned. (man) got one more antoine. (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪ (man) cooool.

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>> go to friday plans pills.com to. >> get this deal. >> it's friday. >> plans pills.com. >> good morning. it's saturday, march 8th i'm melissa murray sitting in for my friend ali velshi. we begin this hour with the latest news from what is shaping up to be the last line of defense against president trump's authoritarian power grab. anyone who still. thought that the legislative branch might be up to the job of standing up to the president. >> well, you. >> just watched. >> congress roll over in real time. >> this week. >> republicans literally cheered. >> trump's retribution agenda, as well as the evisceration of the civil service and the surrender of power to an unelected, unaccountable billionaire donor. while democrats appear to be