connie and rick married in december 2013. josh mankiewicz: you did your job. you protected her. shes still here. rick anglin: i'm happy about that. josh mankiewicz: you feel like, maybe, the universe owes you a little happiness here? because i do. yeah. connie jones: well, we are. we have a very good family. im proud of it. ive been married twice. this is the only husband ive ever had. craig melvin: that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> good morning, and welcome to this sunday edition of morning joe. weekend. it was another fast moving newsweek. here are

some of the conversations you might have missed. >> congressional republicans were reportedly. >> caught off guard. >> when president. >> trump attacked. >> the chips. >> and science. >> act during. >> his joint address. >> your chips act is a horrible, horrible thing. we give hundreds of billions of dollars and it doesn't mean a thing. they take our money and they don't spend it. you should get rid of the chips act and whatever's left over, mr. speaker, you should use it to reduce debt or any other reason you want to. >> well. >> members of. >> the party instinctively stood. >> up and clapped. >> in the moment, there's. >> actually little momentum. among gop. lawmakers to repeal. >> the bipartisan legislation. nbc news reports though republicans were aware of trump's opposition to. >> the legislation, senior. lawmakers were not. >> given a heads up that trump would make those demands during his joint address. >> and they have. >> no plans to take up a repeal of. >> the. >> law any time soon. the chips

act passed with some support from both parties, and was signed into law by president biden in 2022. it allocated billions of dollars in funding to boost production of semiconductors and chips. in the united states. it also increased funding for research and development. house speaker mike johnson told reporters he would wait to see how president trump handles the legislation when the white house reveals its budget proposal. but some republican senators that voted for the bill are speaking out. >> the chips. and science act. >> at least. >> the chips. >> portion. >> has mostly. been implemented. it's been one of the. greatest successes of. >> our time. >> generally speaking, i want to bring chip manufacturing here. but if he's got a different way to do it, i'm open my deal. >> i don't think that's likely to happen. >> all right john joining. >> us now the host of way too early. >> ali. >> vitali, white house

correspondent for reuters, jeff mason and msnbc political analyst elise jordan. so, ali, they seem a little caught off guard there. >> they were caught off guard there, especially. because this is a bipartisan bill that was then later being built upon just in the last week or so, trump announcing more investments into the production of semiconductors and chips. >> so as. >> i was talking yesterday, as i was talking yesterday with congresswoman. >> haley. >> stevens. >> who is. >> someone that backed this. >> bill, but. >> then also was hoping to build upon. >> it in. bipartisan fashion. >> during this congress. she said she spoke with republican senators who. >> were very. >> flummoxed by this. and you can even see it from the conversations that they're having there. >> on the hill. >> the instinctive clapping. >> and then the wait. >> what was that? as republicans are again. >> trying to. >> orient themselves within trump's washington. >> but jeff. >> again, this is something that the white house was. >> building on. >> the investment. >> structure that the chips act actually. >> created for them just. >> a few. >> years ago. >> and as we've already said, it

was bipartisan. it's something that both sides. >> have seen as a success. >> i think politically, it's. also kind. of another example of all things that were biden. for trump are bad, and. >> he doesn't. >> distinguish between things. >> that were just democratic. >> efforts or just biden white house efforts, but. >> also something that had. >> support from both sides of the aisle. and that. has this common goal of bringing chips manufacturing back to the united states. which is an economically positive thing regardless. >> of who's. >> in. >> the white house. >> how much. >> communication is there. >> at the. >> moment between the white house. >> and republican. >> members on something. >> like this? >> who would. >> have got a heads up? how much pushback is there. >> starting to be. >> from members on the house when. >> they're not. >> happy with something the white house is announcing? >> right. >> so there is communication, right? they are. >> in touch with. hill constantly. but that doesn't mean it's. >> always constructive. >> or always fruitful. >> in particular, over the. >> past couple of. >> days and weeks. >> what we've seen is that. >> republicans feel. like doge and elon musk.

>> have just kind of gone off the rails a little. >> bit. >> that they're. >> making these indiscriminate cuts. >> to programs and to. >> personnel in ways. >> that are. affecting their. >> constituents in their districts. and so. >> yesterday, elon musk is on the hill, and. he's getting an earful from both house and senate. >> republicans. >> a respectful earful, i should say, about that. >> they need. >> more coordination, that they need. >> to get. a heads. >> up when. >> some cut is going to happen. >> and musk's response to them is, look, i don't bat a thousand like. >> i can't. not everyone can. >> hit them out of the park. and here's my cell phone number, in case you want me to reverse. >> a cut that. >> i've made. now, of course, that's the most idiotic way to do governance. you should probably. >> have a better. >> plan on the front end before. reversing it on the back end, but that's what the system is. and i will just say, and i'll leave it here. the frustration is not just from republicans on the hill. >> towards musk. >> it's from. >> trump allies. >> off the. >> hill towards musk, because. >> they want to actually. >> reduce the government in a long standing comprehensive. >> and in a way. >> that will stand. >> the test of time. and they believe that musk is doing this in a way that is actually going

to fail, because it will be beaten down by courts and then reversed when the next president, democratic president, comes into office. >> yeah. and you make the point of what's happening on the hill. as musk. physically went there yesterday. billionaire elon musk meeting with senate republicans behind closed doors to discuss the sweeping cuts that his doge team is making across government agencies. during that meeting, senators reportedly told musk not just the frustrations that you're talking about, sam, but that his department's aggressive moves to shrink the federal workforce will need a vote at some point on capitol hill, which everyone has been saying. senators explained how congress could codify those cuts by passing a rescission package, which is an obscure legislative tool, according to nbc news. multiple senators and musk. was were. surprised to learn there was a viable legislative pathway to making doj's cuts permanent. senator lindsey graham told reporters musk was so happy when he heard the news, he pumped his fists and dance. and, you know. >> credit to. >> my colleagues and friends in the capitol hill press corps who said. >> hey, elon. >> musk, if you're giving out your phone number.

>> you want to give it to. >> us, too. >> i think a. >> lot of us have. >> questions about how this. is actually being implemented here. >> jeff. also. >> just such an. >> interesting example. of government 101. >> that the. this top. >> advisor now. >> to president trump. >> is learning. >> that. >> oh. >> there's actually a legislative way to do this. there's a. >> there's a way to do this. >> that's legal that might actually be permanent. >> to achieve some of the goals that he's trying. >> to achieve on behalf of the president, but has been doing so far in a way that. >> is not landing. >> well with republicans or democrats. yeah, there's a legislative branch. >> yeah. >> power of the purse. right. >> and let's. >> talk. >> about the. >> democrats for a minute, because they after. >> james carville's. >> op ed saying they should play possum. and then. >> we saw them. >> at the state of the union. >> sort of. >> state of the union. with. >> some dissent in a. >> kind of a. >> slightly weird way. >> what's the what's the current. >> thinking. >> jeff, amongst democrats on what. the strategy is? >> and i know they're hoping. >> that there's overreach. >> they're hoping that, you

know. something happens. >> with medicaid. >> that spooks voters. but is. >> that a. >> kind of wishful. >> thinking on behalf. >> of the democrats? >> i think just. >> given the polling. around the doge issues in the country still. >> yeah, i think just watching that address, which was not officially a state of the union and watching the response from the democrats, underscores the fact that they're not all on the same page and that there isn't really a strategy, there. >> isn't a singular leader, there isn't a singular figurehead. >> you had some people wearing pink. you had others holding these little paddles. that was. >> basically the split between. >> the progressive caucus. >> and the centrists. >> that's certainly. >> part of it. and i think it's also just a sign of the fact that the party is in the wilderness. they had a they had an opportunity that night. >> to show a little. >> bit of resistance. it's the first time, really, since president trump's inauguration that. they also had a spotlight, and it just didn't work. >> jonathan lemire. >> you know, there's. >> been this. >> conventional wisdom almost from the beginning of the relationship. that donald trump would. >> sour on. >> elon musk, that. >> this this town.

>> isn't big enough for the two of them, that his ego wouldn't allow him to have so much. >> of. >> the spotlight. and yet he has him stand up in cabinet meetings and hold court. he seems to like having him around. he, of course, invited him to the joint session the other night and gave him a. they gave him a standing ovation up there in the gallery. what is your sense from your reporting about how this relationship is going and the job he thinks elon. >> musk is doing now? >> i'm told. right now the relationship is still pretty solid, that trump is very flattered, remains flattered at musk's willingness to work for him. this is the world's richest person, and yet he is taking a secondary role. to donald trump. we know how much trump respects wealth. he also does think, i'm told musk is largely doing a good job. there's been some frustration in trump's inner circle chief of staff siouxsie wiles. >> and others about. >> how musk. is going about doing this. but trump feels. like he hasn't. he hasn't. >> agreed with everything. >> but has largely backed what musk has been up to this point. and also, i think this is

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>> maine justice new episodes drop every tuesday. msnbc presents a new podcast hosted by jen psaki. each week, she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. the new york times reports the trump. >> administration is. >> facing issues. >> detaining undocumented immigrants. >> and transporting. >> them from. >> the united states. >> in an. >> interview with the times, border czar tom homan said he told the president. >> they need to increase. the number. >> of. >> arrests, which has slowed. since trump first took office. but deportations have not kept pace with the. >> arrests, resulting in a surge. >> of people. >> waiting in ice detention. >> the times. reports this stems from. >> financial shortfalls. >> as well as diplomatic challenges with securing. >> agreements with other countries. >> to efficiently. >> deport immigrants.

>> meanwhile, president trump's plan to detain. 30,000 immigrants at guantanamo bay. >> is facing. >> mounting legal. >> logistical and. >> financial challenges. >> high costs. >> including military. >> flights costing. >> between 23. >> and. >> $27,000 per. >> detainee. >> have raised concerns within the administration. tents built for detainees lack. >> basic amenities. >> and failed to meet ice. >> standards. >> and military flights to. >> the base. >> have slowed. nbc news reports there is a growing recognition within the administration that it was a political decision that just. >> is not working. >> to u.s. defense officials, and a congressional official told. nbc news. cheaper alternatives. >> on. >> u.s. soil. >> are being considered, although president. >> trump remains. >> committed to the plan. let's bring in democratic. >> congressman robert. >> garcia of california. >> also at the table in. >> washington, white house. >> reporter for the new york. >> times. >> tyler pager. good morning to you both. congressman, i'll start with you. so much to. >> talk with you about. >> but let's start. >> with some of that news about.

>> the. >> frustration. >> apparently, from the trump administration, that deportations aren't happening fast enough. of course, this was a cornerstone. >> of his campaign pitch. >> he was going to get illegal immigrants out of this country. i would note that the pace, the daily pace of deportations right now from the trump administration is. slower than it was. >> last year. >> under the biden administration. what's your reaction. >> to. >> all of this? >> well, look. >> i think obviously donald trump likes to make up things and create his own facts. and the truth is that when you look at not just deportations, but also what's happening at the border, the slowdown at the border actually started during joe biden's presidency. i mean, it's been a year and a half, almost two years now, that we've actually started to see decreases at the border. they've actually seen the change that donald trump wanted to see happen during the biden administration. so donald trump likes to cook his own numbers. the truth is, the deportations happened, especially of violent criminals, of people that shouldn't be in this country. that was something that joe biden did. other presidents did

as well. and so i think donald trump likes to create his own stories, to create his own numbers. and of course, we can't trust anything that he actually has to say. >> tyler, we. >> also have seen that the. >> number of. >> deportations that are. >> happening in. >> military flights. >> because they were so. >> expensive. >> as i think. >> almost completely. >> stopped. >> if not stopped altogether. >> is there is. >> there in the white house when you. >> talk to your sources. >> any sense? >> we've been speaking a lot. >> about confusion this. >> morning, that. the policy is not as thought. >> out or enduring as perhaps. >> they hoped. >> it was. >> going to be. >> yeah. look, this is obviously a. huge priority of the president. this is. >> what he campaigned on. we heard him devote a lot of time to this. >> in his. >> joint address to congress this week. there is frustration. >> as my. >> colleagues at the times. >> reported. >> about sort of the pace. one of. >> the things that trump wants to be able to brag. >> about is the numbers, the amount. >> of people that are. >> being. >> deported, the amount of people being. >> brought to guantanamo bay. >> we've seen him latch. >> on to that as. >> it relates. >> to elon musk's. >> government efficiency.

>> initiative of cutting contracts, being able. >> to. >> list out those numbers. >> of. >> you know, and programs. >> that have. >> been cut. so i think that's one of the frustrations in the white house is that those. >> numbers are. >> not at the level. >> that trump. >> is excited. >> to brag about. and again, it is all of these policies are complicated to execute. and they. >> are still just. >> about a. >> month into this. >> administration. >> and i think. still working through some of the. ways in which. >> they need to coordinate across the. >> government to execute on. >> this plan. >> which is much more. complicated than than it appears to be. well. >> so there's the reaction inside the white house to one of the president's top campaign trail promises and the way it's being implemented. and then there's the way that major cities across the country are seeing the impact of these policies. you saw several of these mayors, including the mayors of boston, chicago, denver and new york, in front of the committee that you are on yesterday. in your line of questioning, though, and many other democrats did this, the focus was on new york city mayor eric adams. you questioned him about allegations of a quid pro quo, some kind of. political

agreement between the dropping of his charges from the department of justice and the help that he is going to give the trump administration on carrying out their immigration agenda. tom homan, one of the top officials within this administration, called your line of questioning disgusting. your reaction to that and then the larger conversation that. >> we are. >> still having about mayor adams and. where his loyalties are on this, to his constituents or to the admin. >> i mean, what's what's disgusting is a mayor who is essentially accepting over $100,000 of gifts and travel and not actually properly reporting it to his constituents and to the city of new york. i mean, you have there a republican u.s. attorney who essentially stepped down because the trump administration is interfering with a criminal case against the mayor. you had seven other attorneys step down because they were unwilling to essentially go along with homan and trump and dismiss these really serious charges. eric adams has no support in the city of new york. he's underwater. what, 20% of the people there support him?

over 50% want him to not win reelection, believe he should not be the mayor. and yet here he is putting deals, making these side agreements with donald trump, with home and global news shows, with tom homan, you know, laughing, enjoying essentially a person that's detaining migrants, treating them horrifically as he did in the past. eric adams should resign. he should be ashamed of what he's done. and i commend the u.s. attorney there and the team for going after and doing the right thing. but on eric adams. >> and congressman. >> certainly the. >> race. >> to replace him very crowded, including former governor cuomo. let's turn to your republican colleagues there in the house of representatives, receiving instructions from the nrcc earlier this week to no longer hold town hall meetings in their districts to face their constituents. because of we've seen these episodes of real anger from voters, including republicans, about these d.o.j. cuts. as you talk to your to your colleagues there. what is your what's your sense of this? >> i mean, how cowardly this is

just completely ridiculous. we know that town halls, it's something that we all do all the time. it's important to meet your constituents face to face to get feedback. we do it all the time. and this idea, now that somehow republicans are too scared because they're hearing actual feedback, that people don't want medicaid cuts or don't want social security cuts, they want the department of education actually intact to support their kids and their families is crazy. republican leadership is now telling our colleagues to not hold town halls. how ridiculous is that? and so a lot of us on the democratic side, we're going to start going out and start hosting town halls in republican districts, because the people that are showing up are a mix of folks. we all know that we get republicans, we get democrats, we get independents. and mike johnson and republican leadership somehow want to blame us for their town halls. they should be blaming themselves and the horrific policies. the people do not want elon musk going into their personal benefits to their tax returns

and causing chaos. and that's what's happening right now. >> congressman elise jordan here. i just want to go back to your exchange yesterday with mayor adams and say that as someone who lives in new york now and who lives in new york now, thank you. as a congressman from california for taking up. >> for the. >> people of new. york and challenging some of the behavior that's happening up here. but did you get a sense when you questioned mayor adams, and you asked if he would consider resigning, that there was any movement on that front whatsoever? >> well. >> look, i mean, i was a mayor for eight years before i got to congress. i worked with a lot of the mayors that were there. it's important for me for cities to be run well and to have people that are ethical and that know what they're doing in our in our mayor positions across the country. what was interesting about mayor adams is he was very subdued at that hearing. clearly, he knew he was going to be asked tough questions. it's interesting that he decided to attend, and he must have known he was going to get these questions. but this is not

someone that was, i thought, pushed back very hard. i think he knows he's in a very tough spot. he knows that the people of new york do not support him. and he is someone right now that is in serious, both political and i think legal trouble. and so he has a lot to explain to the people of new york. we gave him an opportunity at that hearing. i repeated multiple times to him that he should resign immediately. the people of new york are demanding his resignation. he should not be running at a minimum for reelection. >> congressman, i want to ask you about recent quinnipiac polling. but first, a very quick question. do you wish that hakeem jeffries, a top new yorker, and the person leading your party in congress, would be firmer and say that he thinks that adams should step down? >> i mean, that's up to leader jeffries. i mean, leader jeffries is obviously from new york. i think the folks from new york are making their own decisions on that. what i believe is that he should absolutely resign, and he has lost all credibility to the people of new york. and new york is one of our best cities in not just in the country, but in the world. we all love it. but more importantly, he's also leading the largest city in the united states, and he's cutting deals with donald trump that are

hurting actual people on the ground. we're talking about migrants. we're talking about immigrants. tom homan has done horrific things to human beings in this country. and eric adams should not be cutting deals so he can escape prosecution. >> up next. democratic congresswoman debbie dingell will be our guest. she was in the chamber for president trump's address to congress, and we'll get her reaction straight we'll get her reaction straight ahead here (♪♪) (phone dings) for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura in adults, nurtec odt can provide relief in 2 hours which can last up to 2 days. (♪♪) don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur even days after use, like trouble breathing and rash. get help if you have trouble breathing, swelling of the face, mouth, tongue, or throat. common side effect is nausea. when migraine takes your time, take nurtec. ask your doctor about nurtec odt. this

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>> relief work. >> play. blink relief. >> the only. 3 in 1 extended relief formula for dry eyes. >> blink. >> i find it challenging to come up with a gift. >> that's really impactful, something that really makes a difference. >> jolie has been a tremendous gift. it's something that is. >> not only looks beautiful, but makes us feel amazing. >> and is. >> something that we get to. >> use every day. >> president trump is trying to deliver an unprecedented. >> giveaway to. >> his billionaire friends. he's on the hunt to find trillions of. dollars to pass along. >> to the wealthiest. >> in america. >> and to do that, he's going to make. >> you pay. >> in every part of your life. your premiums and prescriptions will cost more, because the math on his proposals doesn't work without going. >> after your. >> health care. meanwhile. >> for. >> those keeping score, the. >> national debt. >> is. going up, not down. >> and if. >> he's not careful, he could. >> walk us right into a

recession. >> and one more thing. in order to pay for his plan, he could very well come after your retirement. >> the social. >> security, medicare and. va benefits. you worked. >> your whole. >> life to earn. the president. >> claims he. >> won't, but elon musk just. >> called social. >> security the. >> biggest ponzi. >> scheme of all time. >> we need a more. >> efficient government. you want to cut waste? >> i'll help you do it. >> but change doesn't. >> need to be chaotic or make. >> us less safe. >> the mindless. >> firing of. >> people who. >> work to protect. >> our nuclear. >> weapons, keep our planes. from crashing, and conduct. >> the research that. >> finds the cure for cancer, only to rehire. >> them two days later. >> no ceo in. >> america could do that. >> without being. >> summarily fired. >> we all. >> know that our country is going through something. >> right now. >> we're not sure what the next day is going to hold, let. >> alone the next decade. >> but this isn't the first. >> time. >> we've experienced significant. >> and tumultuous. change as a

country. >> i'm a student of history, and we've gone through periods of political. instability before, and ultimately we've chosen to keep changing. >> this country. >> for the better. but every single time, we've only gotten through those moments because of two things engaged citizens and principled leaders, engaged citizens who do a. little bit more. >> than they're used to doing. >> to fight for the things. >> that they. >> care about, and principled leaders who are ready to receive the ball and do something about it. >> joining us now. >> democratic congressman. >> debbie dingell. >> of michigan. >> she was. >> in attendance for president. >> trump's address. >> to the joint session. >> of congress. >> last night. >> also with us, msnbc. >> political analyst. >> elise jordan. >> with us still. she's former aide. >> to. >> the george w. >> bush white house. >> and state department. congresswoman, your reaction to the president's speech last night? your senator's democratic response? and how do democrats drive this message. moving

forward? well, it. >> was 100. >> minutes. >> as we've all discussed, of a lot of drama and theater and two minutes of economics. so but also, i'm going to be very honest with. >> you. >> it was one of the tensest nights. >> i can't. >> count how many state of the unions i've attended over the years, both as a member and a spouse. and it was it was. >> like nothing that i had ever seen. >> i will. >> say this. i think elissa. >> slotkin did. >> an. >> excellent job. >> she. >> by the way. >> wound up. >> michigan's the down river, as you all hear me talk about the area that made me say to you in 2016, hillary clinton wasn't going to win. i think she delivered a very direct message about the issues that are facing us and are the issues that we've got to work on, and democrats have got to do a better job of listening to. >> working people. >> talking to them. in ways that they see and understand, in

lifting up the human stories of what the consequences are of the actions that the. president has undertaken so far. >> so. >> congresswoman, i want to follow up with what you said. you, like me, been to a few of these. you've i would guess you've been to quite a few more. what what made this the most tense presidential address you've been at before in congress? >> so first of all, it was a. political speech. >> and with that, it was the most partizan moment i've ever been in that i'm just, you know, me. i'm always honest. i think the state. >> it's not the. >> state of the union. it was. the i forget what we called it, but address. but it's a time to try to bring the country together. >> that chamber. >> has never been more divided. >> and i felt it in a way. >> you know. >> i have a ton of friends on the republican side. i want to work with them when i can. i'm not going to work with them if it's going to hurt the people of my state, my country or my

district. but the tension in that room was palpable. last night, and i do believe that the president fanned some of. >> fan those flames. >> he really did not talk about anything or try to unify us in any way. and i do believe that that's the role. >> of a leader. >> well, you know. it's interesting that you had the speaker caught on a hot mic moment saying that joe biden delivered a stupid campaign rally speeches. it's fascinating that at this point in joe biden's presidency, he was being mocked and ridiculed by people on the far left and the democratic party because he was reaching out trying to pass bipartisan legislation. of course, as you know better than anybody, joe biden passed more bipartisan legislation in his term than any president this century. so, yes, quite a contrast. you know, you you and i have both heard republicans

saying, oh, this race was about the price of eggs. oh, this race was about the price of beef. oh, this. was about the. >> price of groceries. >> democrats were interested in all of these left wing, crazy ideas like giving sex change operations to convicts in et ce. we heard all of that. but then the hand-wringing, they should have talked about the price of , because you always have. you've always been a straight shooter. you warned about joe biden in 2024. you worried about hillary clinton in 2016, not worried. you warned that that her campaign was in trouble. i'm curious, what are you hearing now among your constituents about whether donald trump is focused on those bread and butter issues, those those kitchen counter? it goes. kitchen table issues compared to tariffs and fighting our allies.

what are they saying to you now. >> so you know i have a very i love my district. >> because it's a. >> reflects america. if you're in washtenaw county ann arbor people are angry. they want to see people fight back. they want to do something. research is being cut terribly. at the university of michigan. he talked about cancer last night. that little boy. i cried when he hugged the head of the secret service. but we need to make sure that we're investing in that research. but you go down river where alyssa was from last night. i talked to those union workers. i talked to those union workers about the tariffs. the auto industry is trying to be very careful. everybody's, you know, walking around on tip toes. but those look i think tariffs are a tool in the toolbox. we need to use them in the right way. we need stronger trade policy. we need to bring manufacturing home. but you don't take canada on who's one of the best allies. >> you have. >> put a 25% blanket tariff, increase consumer costs, give the companies no time to plan.

but there are union workers that are saying, we need to be talking about this. our jobs have gone overseas for too long. he is doing something about it. now. the uaw leadership understands that the way it's being done isn't the best way they want to see usmca be renegotiated. they want to see him address those issues. >> supplier issues. >> are complicated. people have no idea how many times a part goes back and forth across the border. so i want to work with this administration on trade. i told you donald trump won on trade in 216, but you got to do it in a strategic way. and canada is mad. they are coming back at us. i have talked to many of the canadians, could have talked to governor ford today. they are striking back not only at the national level, but at a state level going back and forth. these are serious right now. >> congresswoman, you make the point about the impact of tariffs. and certainly michigan is going to be an epicenter for that. your colleague haley stevens was on with me this morning talking about that, too.

i think for people at home who might be hearing you saying it's the most tense you've ever seen it in the chamber, they may wonder, okay, who cares? we don't need these members to be friends, but you kind. >> of. >> do, especially when a shutdown is looming. and so when you look at the vibe in. >> that room and. >> then you try to parlay it into something tangible, are democrats prepared the conversations that they're having for a government shutdown? are republicans that you've talked to prepared for that? because it feels like that's where we might be heading. >> i think a lot of people are just watching this. i want to make it really clear that the leadership of the democratic party is there, and we'll talk to republican leadership when ever they want. they have not been including them in the discussions. i think a lot of people feel like they're just watching it all in slow motion and what's going to happen. but i want to say this to you relationships matter if you trust somebody, if you know them, if you know that their word is good, then you can make a deal. you can. compromise is not a dirty word. you need to be talking about these issues. and

democrats, we do need to eliminate waste and fraud. but that way we're doing it. and right now we all we see is republicans trying to find dollars to give the billionaires a tax cut and a meat ax being just taken across the board, and programs that help people every single day in the communities being cut. we need to work together. >> coming up, the anti-defamation league has released a new report card for anti-semitism on college campuses. we'll break down those findings straight ahead here on findings straight ahead here on mo [birds chirping] [dog growls] ♪♪ ♪ who knows what tomorrow ♪ ♪ will bring ♪ [dog barking] ♪ maybe sunshine, ♪ [dog whining] ♪ and maybe rain ♪ ♪ but as for me ♪ ♪ i'll wait and see ♪ [knock at door] ♪ and maybe it'll bring my love to me ♪ ♪ who knows ♪ ♪ who knows ♪

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make more of what's yours. guest of honor: everyone's here for me! shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects! only shingrix is proven over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix doesn't protect everyone and isn't for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. tell your healthcare provider if you're pregnant or breastfeeding. increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can happen so take precautions. most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling where injected, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor about shingrix today. >> mounting questions over the future of tiktok in the u.s. >> reporting from. >> philadelphia to el paso. >> in the palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> donald trump is defending the mass firings of federal watchdogs. >> our federal government now can discriminate against the citizens of the country. >> we are all watching and

waiting to see who is going to. >> hold the line. >> don't miss. >> the. >> weekends, saturday and. sunday mornings at. >> 8:00. >> on msnbc. >> the anti-defamation league is out with its new campus anti-semitism report card for 2025. >> after an overwhelming majority. >> of jewish students on. u.s. college campuses. >> reported incidents of. >> antisemitic attacks, threats. >> and harassment last year. in all. 135 colleges and. >> universities were. >> assessed using. 30 evaluation criteria. >> 36% of schools got a grade of either a or b, 21% received a d, and. >> nearly. >> 10% got an f overall, 45% of schools did show improvement compared to. >> last year. let's bring in the. >> ceo of the. anti-defamation league, jonathan greenblatt. >> jonathan, always. >> great to have you on and talk to you. have things gotten better since the height. >> of the ugliness we saw a year ago? >> yeah. >> look, i mean, we're still living through this historic

surge of anti-semitism. college campuses are still a locus of it. now, in some ways, it is better. i mean, the truth of the matter is that, willie, there just aren't as many demonstrations as there were last year. and yet those that we have, the intensity is real. what we saw at barnard college right here in new york city last week, where, like a phalanx of mass protesters stormed a building, assaulted a staff person, and literally would not leave the facility, forcing the administrators who actually went in and kowtowed to these kids dressed up like isis fighters and negotiated with them. it's bananas. so you still have a lot of problems. i mean, to think that 30 some percent of the schools got d's or f's, and we're talking about places like columbia and barnard, we're talking about very prestigious institutions. there's no way that should happen in america. >> as i said in the numbers. 45% of schools have. >> improved over. >> the last year. what changes

have. >> they made. >> to earn a better grade? >> this is one of the biggest takeaways. so when we originally did this, the schools wouldn't work with us. and they said this wasn't a good idea. they didn't want to be graded. well guess what. in the last year, 70% of the universities worked with adl to improve their policies to make sure their students got trained on anti-semitism like they do on racism or misogyny, to make sure that their staff people got trainings and to enforce consequences. and we should talk about this. the schools that got a's like vanderbilt, where president daniel diermeier has been an amazing leader, or alabama or fiu or elon university, brandeis, you have small schools and big state schools. but what's different? leadership leaders who lead and set a moral example create a cascading effect throughout the institution. and students know they can go to vanderbilt or the university of miami or alabama, and they can learn without fear of being harassed and victimized

simply because of, you know, how they pray or who they are. >> just moments ago, actually, donald trump posted on truth social saying that all federal funding will stop for any college school university that. >> allows. >> illegal protests. and he doesn't quite go on to say what's illegal. there's no mention of anti-semitism here, but of course, there's no place for anti-semitism. there is a place for peaceful protest in this, in this country. so in terms of your list, though, it's not clear what prompted this trump tweet of a few moments ago. you know, the schools that have fallen short, that still have, in your estimation, failing grades, where have they? what are they lacking? what can they change? >> well, number one, they need to enforce their policies. so again, if students are being harassed, if they're being assaulted, if their dorm rooms are being vandalized, if they're being screamed at in classes, the students who commit those kinds of offenses should be suspended. i mean, that may sound like a small thing, jonathan, but it's a big deal because at most of these schools, these institutions, they're simply not doing that. so, number one, enforce the policies that allow jewish kids

to learn in peace. i think, number two, make sure that you're treating all the kids the same. so again, if you have orientation where kids learn about bias and bigotry, anti-semitism needs to be on the table. and then number three, if you have clubs or organizations like students for justice in palestine, whose entire point is to harass their jewish classmates, those organizations don't belong on campuses. they should be expelled. >> so why is that. >> so hard? >> i think most. >> rational people. watching this. >> right now go, how is a university. >> still. >> like you just. >> said, negotiating. >> with. >> people who. >> harass students. >> scream at. >> students in some cases. >> break property. >> and you mentioned vanderbilt. i'm an alumnus of vanderbilt, and i consider. >> chancellor diermeier. >> a friend. he, from the beginning. >> last year. >> said, we're not. >> putting our heads. >> in the sand. >> we're going to have dialogs about this. we're going. >> to. >> invite people from both sides of the conflict in gaza and have conversations, and you can ask tough questions. >> and we're going to talk about it in our. >> classes and all of that. but what you can't do is. >> harass your fellow students. >> you can't break into

buildings, you can't injure people. and if you do, you're either suspended or you're expelled. >> why is that so hard for some schools? >> i mean, you got me. i think there are a few things that are going on. i think, number one, you have radicalized faculty in a lot of these institutions who are trying to sort of relive the 60s and have very rigid and temperate views about the state of israel or jews and conflate those things. and we're seeing it all across the board. that is just unacceptable. and then number two, in some places like columbia, the governance is upside down. so faculty, the faculty senate actually has to decide on the penalties applied to students rather than the administrators. so that creates a problem as well. but i do think your point about viewpoint diversity really matters. sian beilock at dartmouth has done an amazing job of this too. you bring kids together who may have different opinions in a normal, peaceful, civil way to talk that out. that's what we need. kids go to college to learn how to be

citizens, not how to train, how to be gorillas. and we need less of that and more of the former. >> up next. grammy nominated singer tori amos will join us with a look at her new children's book, as well as her greg takes prevagen for his brain children's book, as well as her brand new album, and this is his story. hi, i'm greg. i live in bloomington, illinois. i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. eight years ago, i just didn't feel like i was on my game. i started taking prevagen and i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. i've been taking prevagen for eight years now and it is still helping me tremendously. prevagen. for your brain. have you always had trouble with your weight? me too. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off.

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>> of its policy. >> maine justice new episodes drop every tuesday. bay hill. >> the house that arnie built. >> home to his signature event, where a first class field leaderboard stacked with stars eyes, a coveted title, the arnold palmer invitational, presented by mastercard on nbc and peacock. >> silent all these years go by. will i still be waiting for somebody else to understand? >> that's the smash hit. silent all these years, from the 1991 debut studio album. >> by tori amos. >> fast forward. >> to. >> today, and the talented singer. >> songwriter is. >> debuting her. >> first children's book, inspired. >> by her love. >> of music. entitled tori and the muses, the message encourages kids to put down social media and find a place where they can be creative without fear of judgment. and the grammy nominated, multi-platinum singer songwriter

and new york times bestselling author joins us now. congratulations. thank you. thanks for having me. this is a soundtrack to go with it. >> yes. >> it's just come out. i love the message. tell us about it. it's about fitting in, right? >> yeah. >> well, tori. >> has an argument. >> with. her father. little tori. she's about eight. tori in the book. tori? yes. >> and he wants her to play her boring music. >> homework for her recital. and she wants. >> to play. what she wants. >> to play. and what the. >> muses want her to play. and he. says they don't exist. they're make believe, and. >> they get you into a lot of trouble. play these assignments by the. time i get back so they have a bit. >> of a riff, and then he goes and. >> her 11. muses that. >> she's been hearing. since she can remember. >> show up at her kitchen door. and then the journey begins. and tell us why you decided to take on this project. >> well. >> i thank the fairies and the muses in. >> my liner notes. >> i didn't believe.

>> anybody read. >> liner notes in. >> my albums, and the head of penguin. >> books read them. and gave me a call and said, do you want to write a book about your relationship with your muses and the fairies? >> so there. >> you go. >> and it's such an important message right now for our children, because there are not, you know, i my parents thought i was very strange and they were right, but i was in my head like i'd go in my room, i'd imagine. i mean, it's just like created things, social media. and that's part of your message. you don't hear the muses, you don't, you know. you don't live in this create this wonderful, imaginative world if you're just looking at a phone. right. >> that's right. and we learn through the story with her friends that blake. >> one. >> of her friends. >> his muses are insects. and

there's a song. that goes along with it called insect ballet that's on the soundtrack to the book that. >> you. >> find. >> you can stream and find them. >> and then her friend anna. >> ingredients are her. >> muses. >> and they pop off the shelf at the family's market stall. so she's finding how different people discover their muses. and then. >> of. >> course, she has to get home to dad, and she hasn't practiced those recital pieces. and that's the final denouement of the book. >> we'll see. >> what happens. >> well, i'll spoil it here, but that's part of it, right? each one part of this message here is not just about music, but it's about finding your own path, whatever it might be. that's right. >> and that i believe. >> we all. >> have muses, but they appear differently to each of us. it's not as if one person can have the cornucopia and access to inspiration. we all can. and but

it appears differently, i believe, to each of us. and some people have a little bit of a tricky time finding them. >> yeah. >> tori, is it also about accepting the fact that you're not doing something unusual when you start hearing your muses? i started preaching as a little boy in the church of god in christ, and people thought, what is this boy preaching? but i could hear in my own inner voice, this is what i wanted to do, is the book to give kids confidence. i'm going to give my grandson this marcus allen, the confidence of going by what you hear in your inner voice. >> absolutely. and i would love to hear you read that with your grandson. >> oh. >> that's. >> nice. >> because i think it's the sharing of the grown up with the child sharing it. there's an exchange to be made with us and them and our inner child. exactly like you. absolutely. the new children's. >> book. >> tori and the muses goes on sale tomorrow. the accompanying

soundtrack to the book is available to. >> stream now. >> new york times bestselling author and grammy nominated singer songwriter tori amos. thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. >> and don't go away. we have a second hour of morning joe weekend on this sunday morning coming up for you right after this break. >> not feeling the graze but don't want a color? try just for men. control gx gray reducing shampoo. just shampoo like you do to gradually. reduce grays. now boosted with keratin hair now boosted with keratin hair lo ♪ are you having any fun? ♪ ♪ what you getting out of living? ♪ ♪ who cares for what you've got ♪ ♪ if you're not having any fun? ♪ ♪ have a little fun ♪ the darkness of bipolar depression made me feel like life was moving on without me. then i found a chance to let in the lyte. discover caplyta. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i,

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>> too short. >> for ordinary. get yours today. >> at jack archer.com/tv. >> welcome back to this sunday edition of morning joe weekend. let's jump back in to more of

the past week's most important conversations. >> amid growing backlash over the sweeping federal cuts by elon musk's doge team, president trump appears to be somewhat limiting the billionaire's power within the federal government. yesterday, the president told his cabinet secretaries they're in charge of their own departments, not musk. trump said musk's role is to make recommendations on staffing and policy. following that meeting, the president posted on truth social that he's instructed his cabinet secretaries to work with musk on cost cutting measures. he later elaborated on that statement while speaking to reporters at the white house. >> i want the cabinet members to keep the good people and the people that aren't doing a good job, that are unreliable, don't show up to work, etc. those people can be cut. elon and the group are going to be watching them and if they can cut, it's better. and if they don't cut, then elon will do the cutting.

>> chris matthews i've always told people, if you understand what donald trump is trying to do in the white house, read the first three pages of the art of the deal, where he says, i show up at work, i pick up the phone, i make calls, try to figure out how things are going, and i sort of feel my way through it. well, you get that sense with elon musk one day, he says elon is in charge, the next day his cabinet members call up and they're upset. so he goes, elon is not in charge. he says it's the state of the union. elon is in charge now. he says elon is not in charge, that it's the cabinet members that are not in charge. it bounces back and forth. but there are, of course, real consequences to that, especially for those people that are taking these cases to the courts. but but for now, it does seem he's gotten enough pushback from cabinet members who are now saying, including people like kash patel, who he's very close to, are saying, this is my agency. i don't need this guy

with a chainsaw telling me who's going to work for me and who's not going to work for me, and how i'm going to reorganize my own bureaucracy. >> yeah. >> he's doing all this. >> on television. if you noticed, he calls. >> the tv. >> cameras in. >> for the cabinet. >> meetings he's doing. >> he's redirecting his cabinet. >> officials. >> redirecting musk. >> i've watched. >> this guy. use television like nobody's ever done. when he went up the other night on tuesday night, talked to the american. >> people and. >> said, we're paying. >> social security checks to people who are 160 years old. >> anybody reads an obit page knows. >> that's not true. >> anybody knows it's not 20. >> we're not spending. >> 20 million people out there. >> getting free checks. that kind of fraudulence is unbelievable. >> but he's. >> telling the maga people out there, they're stealing your money. >> don't trust these people in washington. >> these are. >> bad people. >> they are. >> the deep state. he did it. >> you know, he. >> talked about the election. >> being stolen. >> nobody in america will tell you which. >> states were stolen from him. >> all the maga. people get them

in the corner. >> and say, tell me which states were stolen in 2020. they can't tell you. he just told. >> them that. >> he just said they were stolen. and with zelensky on television, he said it was great television. i'll never forget that. it was. >> great television where he beat up. this guy. >> on television. >> he and jd vance, and they just did it in public. so we all know what ronald or what donald trump thinks of zelensky. >> he's teaching us. >> he's teaching. >> us don't trust social security. >> so he can go after it. >> don't trust. >> ukraine because he's going to go after. ukraine and. >> diminish that country and. >> its size. >> and. >> its importance. all because this is what trump thinks, and that's what it's about. it is mussolini. it's about believing the leader in what he says verbatim. and that's what trump does. >> on television. and he's. >> using us to do it. >> using the medium. >> so. >> so, gene robinson, you tell me this. and chris, this is not this isn't my original thought

that chris matthews wrote me after the speech and said this. so donald trump stands up and says things that just aren't true. you know, he talks about 300. we had $350 billion to him, repeats it over and over and over again. 160 year old people are getting social security, right. that's not happening. but he says. >> it right. >> and here's the thing. if you don't know how to respond to a lie, as chris has said, that's the biggest audience any politician is going to get. so americans, what are they to think? okay, well, i guess 160 year olds are getting so wet. i'm sorry, i know it. well, no, i don't it's not harder than it looks because i've been in congress. i can tell you it's not harder than it looks. where are the democrats when he starts saying this nonsense? why don't

they get one person out there who can communicate extraordinarily well? let's make it a meritocracy. why can't somebody go up there like barack obama would have done? or like bill clinton would have done, and just sit there and laugh and go, he says there, we used to do this all the time in congress. bill clinton says this look, and you hold up a sheet. no, that's a lie. that's a lie, that's a lie that. why can't democrats do this? >> what why. >> are they why are there now millions of americans who believe that, quote, 160 year olds are getting social security checks? >> well, millions of americans believe it, i. >> guess because trump said it. and because. >> you're right. >> it wasn't effectively refuted. >> and to. >> do. >> that. >> you need you need the right messenger. >> you need to figure. >> out. >> who that is. you need to get that person out fast.

>> and you. >> need to respond to the lies. >> directly. and forcefully, and you. >> need to do it repeatedly. >> to and you know, with. >> so there was a fire hose. >> of lies. >> in that address to the joint session of congress. so you also have to pick your shots. >> i mean. >> it's not. >> that effective. >> if you try to respond to. >> to. >> you know, 270. >> lies all at once. but the big ones, like the social security stuff, which is completely been debunked. of course it's. >> ridiculous. >> but it's also been. >> disproved. >> you know, get out there on that, because you're right. he is. telling people that this program is fraudulent and that that makes it evil. >> and therefore. >> makes it vulnerable to attack. it makes it legitimate to attack. >> it and to. >> and to slash it. >> and he.

>> does that very intentionally, and he does it very well. and, and democrats need to need. >> to find. >> the right person. >> and. >> and execute the right strategy, which is push back hard, fast, repeatedly, you. >> know. >> and get and get people, chris matthews that that are eloquent, that can speak to both sides of their party and speak to middle america. you know, i don't don't know richie torres that well, but i've seen him on tv. richie knows his way around tv. he's a very effective spokesperson. aoc also, she she is she is center left, i understand that, but she also can speak to middle america. democrats need to get people. i'm just talking about on facts and knows how to be nimble ideologically. she's to the left. richie torres is a little center right when it

comes to democrats, and both of them know how to communicate effectively on this medium. i mean, why don't democrats do that? because again, you as you've told me, you got donald trump saying that people are 160 years old, are getting social security checks, and americans believe it because democrats don't know how to rebut it. morning joe weekend will be right back. >> herself like. >> sadly, windshield chips can turn into windshield cracks. but at least you can go to safelite. com and schedule a fix in minutes. sweet safelite can come to you for free, and our highly trained techs can replace your windshield right at your home. >> safelite safelite. >> don't wait. go to safelite.com and schedule now.

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>> what was it like. when trump got elected? what was the i mean, what was the reaction do. >> you think. >> about ice. >> coming to knock. >> on your front door. >> for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you there. on january? >> i was there on january 6th. >> did it surprise you that. you were. >> fired, given. >> how resolutely nonpartisan you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> and welcome back to morning joe weekend. let's pick up the conversation we were having just before that break. >> there are a couple of things on the horizon that he's been talking about. it's going to be problematic. number one, he's talking about slashing the number of employees at the irs. i can tell you for anybody that's tried, and i've heard it time and time again when i was in congress, i've heard it time and time again over the past 20 years. any middle class american that tries to get a tax refund check back from the irs can't do

it because they're already so radically understaffed and they're so underfunded. that's one of the things that joe biden tried to correct. be very careful slashing the irs that dramatically because it will end up being unpopular with with middle class taxpayers who can't get their refund checks back in less than, like a year. if we keep having all of these things and also va affairs, i can tell you what, i had a ton of vets in my district when i served, and veterans affairs was so understaffed. it was impossible. impossible. we've had you know, it seems like we have crises in va care every decade or so that the veterans affairs, because they're understaffed as well. and you're talking about slashing people there. again, very easy to talk about this generally on the campaign trail i've done. it ain't so easy when you actually start trying to do it, because working americans are impacted. and jon meacham

cares so much about working americans, and he's he's taking this fight out on the road. he cares so much that he is gone from his pulitzer prize winning library to now he is at the men's grill kitchen at belle meade country club to talk to us this morning. thank you, john, so much for, for meeting with the teeming masses. here we find ourselves in this fascinating place in donald trump's. well, what are we about halfway through his first 100 days where there seem to be all of these undercurrents, all of these crosscurrents? we had him charge out of the gate. now it seems that the court cases are catching up with him. the conflicts of cabinet members going back and forth, court cases, stopping certain moves, the united states supreme court with amy coney barrett and john

roberts stopping some of the things that they did with u.s. aid. why, john, this almost looks like madisonian democracy. >> almost. almost because you still have a central player, th. >> president, who. >> you know, woodrow wilson. >> said the. >> presidency, he can be as big a man as he can. >> you know that. >> there can be this. >> exertion of power. >> and. >> influence. >> and he will. continue to. >> speak in. >> the vernacular of distrust. let me put it that way. blessedly, it looks as if the checks. and balances will likely check and balance the most extreme impulses. but i'm not entirely sure that's exactly what the president cares most

about. i think what he cares most about is what you and chris were talking about, which is dominant, domineering, attention and absolute the appearance, anyway, of absolute fealty. so the question to me, watching all this has become and we're only here's a remarkable thing. it's been, what, six weeks since the inauguration? i mean, that's that's something. >> to. >> sort of stop and think about. this is time is moving pretty slowly as we go through this question is what of what the president is doing becomes dispositive precedent, right? what of the now there's the governmental changes. there are two, two elements here. right. there's the policy changes. he can he is you're right. the thing about the ancient social security folks, chris, is exactly right. it's going to

enter the imagination. but you you delay one check in a district. this is true. and that's. >> a. >> that's a whole different thing, right? everybody's always against government except for their government. right. the farmers who voted maga, who suddenly realized that their foreign markets are closed, the folks who make whiskey that goes to, you know, abroad and suddenly it's not being drunk, you know, it's just globalization. there's a reason the establishment reacted to globalization in the last 30 or 40 years. it's because globalization is real, and you can't repeal that by executive order. so what i keep thinking about again and again is the president essentially wants to take us back to the 1920s, an

isolationist era, a high tariffs, anti-immigrant sentiment. this is all kind of a harding coolidge hoover thing. and i don't mean to throw harding, coolidge and hoover under the bus. >> please do. >> but but that's that's the kind of republicanism. and here's the republicanism that has to stand up. and that's the republicanism, as you know, joe of eisenhower, of eisenhower had a very conservative brother out of practice law out in tacoma who would write him. he was a slightly older brother. he'd write him letters all the time saying, poor dwight, you're not doing things right. let me, as your older brother, tell you. and it's fascinating. and we all, you know, everybody's got one in the family, right? so edgar eisenhower writes him and says. >> yeah. >> it look, it looks as though, you know, you're not cutting fast enough. this is more more

truman, more roosevelt. people aren't happy. >> right. >> and power writes him back and says any politician who tries to cut social security when it's become part of the fabric of the country will commit suicide. and there are a few extremists, but they are stupid. and what eisenhower did is he ratified a consensus that the state has a role to play, an extended role to play in people's lives. and in many ways, the trump world is a reaction to that. that consensus. and the reason. >> you know. >> the reason there was a consensus is that's what people wanted. >> our next guest says that russia's leader can't win his war against ukraine unless he persuades its allies to betray it. anne applebaum will join us straight ahead here on morning joe. joe. >> weekend. choose advil liqui-gels for faster,

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>> the president knows that. look, if you want real security guarantees, if you want to actually ensure that vladimir putin does not invade ukraine again, the very best security guarantee is to give americans economic upside in the future of ukraine. that is a way better security guarantee than 20,000 troops from some random country that hasn't fought a war in 30 or 40 years. the security guarantee and also the economic guarantee for ukraine, is. >> to. >> rebuild the country and ensure that america has a long term interest. you're not going to do that if you come to the oval office, insult the president and refuse to follow his plan for peace. i mean, this is this is like stranger things. we're at the end of the season that everything turns upside down and the world is upside down underground. i mean, we have two people here talking. they remind me of what democrats were saying about daniel ortega

and nicaragua in the 1980s. i mean, they're saying we don't get peace through strength. we get peace by undercutting our allies in europe and by capitulating to russians. what name one time nobody can name one time when capitulating to vladimir putin. our russians. are the soviet union paid any benefits at all? and we can go back to yalta. we after yalta, we can we can move forward. john kennedy, being humiliated in his vienna summit with khrushchev. we can we can move forward. and just with vladimir putin, talk about, you know, george w bush looking into putin's eyes and reading his soul. and a couple of years later, what happened? vladimir putin looked into georgia, invaded them, and we

did nothing. barack obama in 2012, why did barack obama do? he whispered to medvedev, hey, after the election, we can do more things. yeah. after the election, russia invaded ukraine. russia invaded crimea, russia shot down commercial aircraft. every time we show weakness, russia runs over us. and right now you have those people. they did it in the white house saying, this is what we're going to do. we're going to undercut our allies who have been beating the russians back for over two years now, three years. and we're going to start basically sounding like we work on our tea and we're going to copy russian talking points, and we're going to insult america's closest and most loyal ally. is

that the that's what they were doing. the vice president talked about some random country that hasn't fought a war in 30 or 40 years. we're not on x here. like we can do fact checks. and this random country, great britain, the country, we have a special relationship, some random country. well, here's a list of recent wars that that random country fought alongside with the united states in 1990, the gulf war. the british lost 47 lives. 1992. the bosnian war, 59 british personnel died. 1998 the kosovo war. they fought alongside of us 72 brits killed. 2000 the sierra leone civil war two personnel died. 2000 war 2001 the war in afghanistan 457

british personnel lost their lives. 2003. the iraq war 179 brits lost their lives, 136 killed in hostile incidents. and then you go on and you see that the overall war on terror was proportionately 12% deadlier for the united kingdom than it was for americans, based on the number of troops deployed and the number of troops killed three times the number of british troops were shot and killed in afghanistan than they were in iraq, and a uk soldier was twice as likely to be shot and killed than their u.s. counterpart, and applebaum, i don't know where to begin. i really don't calling britain some random country when they have stood behind, you know,

much to their detriment. tony blair basically gave up being prime minister because he sided with george w bush and the iraq war because he believed it was that important that the special relationship be maintained. and here we have a vice president mocking and ridiculing our closest allies. >> he's mocking and ridiculing. a relationship that, for. >> the. >> british, has been central. >> to their foreign policy. >> for 100 years. british intelligence works. >> so. >> closely with. >> american intelligence, it's hard. >> to pick them apart. british strategy british personnel, british aid policy has all been adapted to work around and with american policy as well. >> the british. >> think of themselves as partners. >> of the united states, and they've been treated. >> as such actually by by all recent administrations. they've had a the special relationship

which sometimes. >> was was a personal relationship, whether. >> it was reagan and thatcher. >> whether more strangely. >> it was george w bush. and tony blair has always been. >> at the. >> center of both of our countries foreign policy. >> so. >> so yes. >> it's. >> insulting and rude. >> to. >> imply otherwise. >> up next, the latest on the growing measles outbreak in the united states, with cases being reported in at least nine states. we'll check in with nbc news medical contributor doctor vin gupta. that's straight ahead. >> raymond carver. >> and, doug. >> you'll be back. >> emus can't help people customize. >> and save. >> hundreds on. car insurance with. >> liberty mutual. >> you're just a flightless bird. >> no. he's a dreamer, frank. >> and doug. >> well. i'll be.

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>> the administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any. >> of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> the measles outbreak. >> here in the united. >> states continues. >> to grow, with nine states now reporting cases. >> including california, new. jersey and new york. >> according to the. >> cdc. >> 20% of the reported cases. >> have required. >> hospitalization. >> and most of those infected have been children. >> joining us now, nbc news medical contributor doctor vin gupta. doctor gupta, it's good to see you this morning. >> so since. >> we spoke. >> last a week or so ago, more cases. this does. appear to be growing. what should people know about it this morning? >> well. good morning. you were spot on in the lead up. >> this is a 20% hospitalized. >> about 170 cases so far. 95% of those cases will be. >> primarily in children. less than 17 years of age, mostly under five. 95% unvaccinated. so i think number one.

>> this is going to. >> get worse before. >> it gets better. we're on. >> track for this. >> to be the worst. >> year for measles. i mean, we're still only in march, but. >> we. >> probably have seen. >> since we thought. measles was eradicated in 2000. so this is a big this is an. unusual year probably going to extend out. >> to more states. here's what we need to know. >> first of all, number one, vaccination. can have an impact. >> really within just a matter. >> of days, even just. >> one dose. if you're a parent out there, you're. >> living in one of. >> these states. we have cases here in washington state. get vaccinated, get your children vaccinated. if you are unsure of. >> your own vaccine. >> status, if. >> you don't know if you've. >> gotten two shots of the measles. >> vaccine at some point in your life. get a. >> booster shot or get your titers checked. it's really important. number two, just to clarify something that. >> the health secretary said, there is no evidence. >> you know, he really underplayed the. >> role of vaccination. >> just a few days ago when he released a statement. >> really, number. >> one, there is no. >> treatment for measles. >> it's all prevention. number

one. number two, he started referencing. >> things like cod liver. >> oil and his. >> formal statement that is, there is. >> no physician that's credible that i know of. >> there's no guidelines from. >> a society. >> basis saying that cod. liver oil is. >> something that we utilize. but he. >> really emphasized. >> that in his statement. >> i think. it's important to. >> clarify and fact check. >> yeah. >> doctor gupta, he's also. >> talked about vitamin a, again. >> not a. >> replacement for vaccines. >> how damaging. >> is it. >> to amongst communities where. >> there is hesitancy. >> still about. >> the measles vaccine. although we know that the idea that it's linked to autism has been thoroughly debunked. >> how damaging. >> is it to have. >> the health secretary not. >> push vaccines? >> i mean. >> not. >> be much more. >> assertive in the. >> pushing of vaccines. >> as opposed. >> to these. >> alternative therapies? >> well, you know. >> i thank you for bringing that up, katie. >> it is important it's important to. >> realize what he's actually doing, what he has a history of doing. that angers all of us. >> on. >> the clinical side. we have to

deal with these. >> consequences. >> at the bedside. he does. >> it in order to his. >> team of advisers. number one, his former organization, the child health defense, has put a lot of information just in the past few weeks about how the measles vaccine. is causing the outbreak. >> because. >> quote, unquote, it's somehow ineffective. that's what his deputies at his former. organization are putting out there. incredibly damaging. >> because. >> that's part of the reason why people are not getting vaccinated. we're seeing a direct. >> line between. >> a no vaccine status and this outbreak. and part of it is why people are confused about the purpose of vaccination. and he has been one of the leading reformers of that, whether he wants to admit it or not. so that's number one. number two, this notion that there is a treatments out there, what he's saying in the statement is downplaying. proven ways to avoid measles in the form of vaccination and normal infectious disease hygiene. and he's saying that there's treatments out there that somehow we in the medical establishment have been hiding from people. that's what he's saying. that's what he's

directly implying, and it's wrong. >> so doctor gupta, the trump nominee to head nih, also facing some real scrutiny during his confirmation process. in the past, he has said some deeply dubious things linking vaccines with autism. he's tried to back off that of late. but give us your assessment as to his candidacy. but also, just how dangerous are these ideas, particularly as we just discussed moments where vaccine intake is decreasing and diseases and viruses are rising? >> you know. >> my concern with. >> with the nih. >> nominee, he's. >> a physician in name only. he doesn't he didn't practice. he's not actually a clinician. he's an economist, very. accomplished academic at stanford. so, you know, he's done a lot of good academic work. but since the pandemic, he's put out a lot of fringe ideas. and so, you know, jonathan, exactly. to your point, he was deadly wrong on the covid. he said that he underestimated the death toll by

about 95%. put out a big declaration that you and i talked about back in the day, the great barrington declaration. deeply, deeply misinformed, did a lot of damage because people said, oh, gosh, shouldn't we be doing what they're saying? let the virus rip instead of doing what we should have been doing, which is protect as many people as possible? over a million people died, by the way. so he was deeply wrong. he said about 20,000. he's also done the vaccine autism link. my worry here is that the nih director, as it's been under. francis collins up until recently, should be independent in many ways that it should be a clinician, somebody that's. respected in the clinical community. he is not he is not a clinician. and as a result, is he going to be a stopgap when it comes to policies that many of his peers in the clinical community disagree with? >> our next guests. viral commencement speech explores the question how do you make magic and find empathy in today's often cruel world? brad meltzer often cruel world? brad meltzer joins us next on the best moments deserve the best eggs.

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>> source to. >> stop it, to at least slow him down. >> in a new book, our next guest is asking this in today's world, where cruelty and venom have become sport, how do you make magic and find empathy? in his viral 2024 commencement address at the university of michigan, new york times bestselling author brad meltzer explored that question. >> as you go. >> through life, every person. >> you encounter. is battling something. >> you can't see. >> the solution is switching. places and feeling empathy. as the saying goes, one day someone is going to hug you so tight that all of your broken. pieces will fit back together. the world needs. more empathy. more humility, and certainly. >> more decency. >> if you really want to shock. >> the world. >> unleash your kindness. that's a completely naive idea.

>> but it's an idea worth fighting for. >> the person. >> who thinks they're the smartest. >> in the room, i promise. >> you. >> is not. >> the smartest. >> in the room. >> that's just the one with. >> the most fragile ego. >> the most sophisticated and intelligent people. >> i know. >> are the ones willing to challenge their thinking and admit there's more to learn. >> and brad joins us now, his new book, based on that commencement address, is entitled make magic the book of inspiration you didn't. know you needed, and good to have you back on. >> and i will tell you, brad, when you gave that speech, your own son didn't know he needed to hear that speech. as you say at the beginning of the book, your son was like, really? we don't get tom brady, we get you. i think the exact words he said was, that's like a 13th seed winning the ncaa tournament. well, we're glad you got to do it. i want to, i want to there's something that you say in the book that i, i love because, you

know, sometimes the best answer to disinformation is just simple truth. and sometimes the best response to hatred is kindness. and you say, if you really want to shock the world, unleash your kindness. explain. >> yeah. thank you joe. so the speech is. all about. >> magic. >> the thing. >> you can't explain. >> because there are some. >> things we. >> can't explain. >> and if you talk. >> to. >> magicians. >> there are four types of magic. tricks one, you. >> make something appear. two, you make something disappear. three, you make two things switch places, and four you take one thing and you turn it into something else. the hardest trick of. >> all transformation. >> but it's the. >> third trick. >> you're talking about. >> and when. >> you want to take. >> one. >> thing and turn it into something else, that's what empathy is, because that's what it does, right? you go into someone else's shoes. >> trying to look through. >> their. >> eyes. and when you see it today, i'll say it this way. when i was 13 years old, my

family moved to florida. my dad lost his job and we were forced to live with my grandmother, and we had no money. and it was my mom, my dad, my sister, myself, all of us living with my two grandparents, six of us in a one bedroom apartment, and everyone at that point in the condo, they were trying to kick us out. they were like, there's too many people in a room. but this one woman across the hall said, you know what, take my apartment. she said to us. she moved in with a relative. she gave the apartment to my family so we could have some comfort so we wouldn't be evicted. and i remember her name is mercy. but as a kid, i always heard her name as mercy. and make no mistake, mercy is what she showed my family. but today, cruelty and venom harshly judging those we disagree with that's become sport in our culture. but cruelty and venom aren't proof of strength. they're signs of weakness and petty insecurity. what takes strength, as you just said, is showing kindness and putting yourself in someone else's shoes and showing some empathy.

>> yeah. >> brad, as a minister, i can relate to the whole concept of believing and doing something magic that does not appear to be apparent to everyone else. how do you and what do you do through this book? to give people the idea that there's magic within them? because all of the people that we look at and say, that's magical, most people don't think they could do things like that. the thing i like about your book is you're trying to say to every average person, there's some magic possibilities. >> well, these are things we've all experienced, right? we've all had that moment. and it's not easy, right? our studies show that when we get too much bad news, our brains get overwhelmed. that's why we change the channel. that's why we swipe to a new app. that's why we shut down. do not shut down. we need you right now. if you shut down, we're in trouble. i can tell you. when i was, i spent four years scooping ice cream at the haagen-dazs in the aventura mall. and i remember this woman came up one time, and she starts snapping her fingers at me, saying, you got to serve

me right now. and i said, ma'am, i'll be right with you. she said, no, you got to serve me now. and i said, you know what, ma'am? you're being rude. i'm not going to serve you. and she said, you're going to be working at this miserable ice cream store for the rest of your miserable life. and i said, ma'am, if i am working here for the rest of my miserable life, you're still never getting any ice cream. and i used to laugh at that story, right, reverend? i used to laugh and say, you know what? that you know, that didn't bother me, but it did bother me. it made me feel small. my dad struggled with money. his whole life made me feel like i was going to struggle, like my dad struggled. and what i realized what? you have to make it disappear. the second trick in the book is your fear. but you shouldn't make it disappear. write the book. this book is all about magic and how you actually do it. what you have to do is use that fear. you got to harness it. don't vanquish your critic critics. prove them wrong. and that's what we have to do right now. that's what people have to do right now because we're all scared. look at that. that segment you ran before about those workers, about those veterans losing their jobs. but

we got to harness those fears and those things we're terrified of. and again, not vanquish our critics, prove them wrong. >> so, brad. >> all of. >> us fall short. >> on empathy sometimes. >> what is something. >> we can do. >> to catch. >> ourselves and do. >> what you're saying and make one. >> thing another thing? >> yeah. so here's the key. thing is, if you look at the studies, empathy is actually malleable. that's the thing they found. so if you want more empathy, the trick is you just got to want to have more empathy in your life. as proof of that, think of it's why college students in your first year of college, you make so many new friends. why? because you tell yourself you want so many new friends. you want to be open to the universe and what we have to do now. it's so easy to shut ourselves down and say, i'm tired of this nonsense, right? you've seen what's happened after the election. you see what happens after that? that meeting in the white house. we all look at that and we all go, oh my gosh, i'm disgusted that a president is behaving like that. i'm disgusted that our country looks like this right now. how can we be so unempathetic to

what's going on in the world? but again, just being mad doesn't do it. you got to be open. and that's the hardest trick of all. but i got to tell you, it's a trick worth doing. and that's what this whole book is about. and in fact, the last trick in the book is the one you're asking about, right, is the final trick is how do you take one thing and turn it into something else? and that's transformation. and to me, you know, the people who always say and think they're the smartest in the room, as you heard, that's not the smartest in the room. that's the person with the most fragile ego. that's what we're looking at right now in our politicians. >> coming up next here on morning joe will dive into a new documentary that explores the manson murders and whether there was any connection to the cia. was any connection to the cia. that's next. on -what've you got there, larry? -time machine. you gonna go back and see how the pyramids were built or something? nope. ellen and i want to go on vacation, so i'm going to go back to last week and buy a winning lottery ticket. -can i come? -only room for one. how am i getting home? sittin' on my lap like last time, ronald.

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pills.com to get this deal. it's friday plans pills.com. >> manson was. >> preaching all the time. race wars murder was okay. when a. >> story did start. >> to emerge. >> it was managed. >> very carefully. >> it was managed. >> and manipulated. i know. that what we. were told. >> isn't. >> what happened. >> there were. >> these research scientists. >> who were working secretly for the government. >> one of the most. >> bizarre episodes. >> in cia history planted. >> false memories. >> in people without their awareness. >> my world. >> is. >> a sad. >> world. manson was really. into mind control. >> i understood. >> what i was doing, but.

>> it just didn't. >> make any difference. >> manson became exactly what the cia was trying to create. well, you're suggesting. >> manson was a puppet? >> well, that was a look at the new netflix documentary, chaos the manson murders. the film, directed by academy award winning filmmaker errol morris, is based on the book titled chaos charles manson the cia and the secret history of the 60s. like the book, morris's film explores whether charles manson had any connection to the central intelligence agency. specifically, it's documented mind control and domestic surveillance programs, respectively, known as mkultra and chaos. and errol morris joins us now. he also serves as a producer on the project. errol, thank you so much for being here. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> for having. >> me here. let's just start with how you got involved with this project. what what drew you

to this story? >> one of. >> the most famous. >> true crime stories. >> in american history don't really have. >> to be drawn to it. >> everybody knows about it. and everybody. >> i can't say. >> everybody. >> but nearly. everybody is curious about it. >> so what's. >> the challenge then. >> is you're right. it's such a widely known story. what's the challenge then in trying to find something new to say about it? >> there are many new things. >> to say about it. that's one of the fascinating things about. >> true crime. >> you're turning. over rocks. >> and finding. >> all kinds. of insects scurrying. >> around. the mkultra part of the story. >> tom o'neil. >> who wrote the book chaos. asked these questions there. >> how do you explain questions? how do. >> you explain the fact that his parole officers were aware that he was committing crimes but.

>> did nothing? was he being protected? >> was he working for the. >> government? >> and tell the viewers a little bit now, if you will, just about a little more of these of these cia programs, how widespread were they? how credible do you find this? >> i made a. >> whole netflix series. >> about mkultra. >> called wormwood. >> if there's a question, did this exist? >> it did. >> the people running mkultra at the cia did their level headed best to destroy. all evidence of their existence, like. lifting up a magic slate and. >> erasing everything. but they didn't. >> it's very hard to erase everything. there's always little. bits and pieces of evidence left. did mkultra exist? >> yes. >> so beyond that, the idea that that program did exist. what are

some of the things you hope that viewers take away from this documentary that they learned from it? >> i'd like them to enter into the mystery. >> i'd like them to think about the issues involved with manson. was this a government program? was he a programed assassin or. if you like, was just this about a group of idiots bumbling through. >> crime after crime? >> we should note that the documentary was just recently named a new york times critics pick, and it is now streaming now on netflix. and that is it for us this weekend. we're back tomorrow morning live at 6 a.m. eastern to kick off a brand new week of morning joe. we'll see you then. thanks for watching. enjoy the rest of your weekend. >> good morning. >> it is