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>> good morning. it's sunday, march 9th, and you're watching velshi on msnbc. i'm charles coleman, junior, filling in for my friend ali velshi. and we've got a lot to talk about. now, it may feel like you've seen this movie before, but we are just five days out from the possibility of another government shutdown. house speaker mike johnson has just unveiled a funding bill that he hopes will prevent a shutdown from happening, but it's already on shaky ground. democrats are slamming the republican's plan, saying that it will further enable donald trump to abuse his power and hand a blank check to the unelected, unaccountable billionaire elon musk that would ultimately help him continue to slash and burn through the federal government. the republicans plan as a temporary fix, also known as a continuing resolution or a cr, that will fund the government until september 30th. it adds $6 billion to defense spending, which includes money to boost

president trump's mass deportation agenda. meanwhile, it cuts $13 billion from non-defense programs. democrats were quick to criticize the republican bill, noting that it could give the president and elon musk more control over how federal funds are spent. now, the issue here for anyone who's rusty on their seventh grade civics, is that the framers of the constitution gave the power of the purse to congress, not some guy named elon. rosa delauro, the top democrat on the house appropriations committee, remarked that the bill is, quote, a power grab for the white house and further allows unchecked billionaire elon musk and president trump to steal from the american people. earlier, delauro joined my colleagues on msnbc's the weekend and had this to add. >> it's a blank check to elon musk and to president trump. and it just it allows them to what i call this is stealing. this is stealing taxpayers dollars that

were intended to go to american families and to businesses. >> now, in a separate statement, house democratic leadership added that they will be voting against the bill when it comes to the floor this week. that will put pressure back on house republicans and their narrow majority. see if all the democrats stick together and vote no. republicans can only afford to lose one vote in order to still pass the bill, and it could still then face an uphill battle in the senate, where it will need 60 votes to pass. joining me now is maryland congressman jamie raskin. he's the top democrat on the house judiciary committee and a former member of the house january 6th select committee. he's also the author of the book unthinkable trauma truth, and the trials of american democracy. good morning, congressman. thank you for being here. i want to start with this cr. what are your thoughts around the continuing resolution that speaker johnson has put out yesterday? and have you decided how you're going to be voting on it? >> well, i haven't had the chance to read the details. i just know of congresswoman

delauro's reaction. and we, of course, are invested in keeping the government open and not allowing them to continue to. dismantle the government piece. >> by piece. >> which is what they've been doing. so we're going to defend the rights of the federal workers. we're going to vindicate our power. to pass laws and. make sure that the president is faithfully. executing the laws. >> and we're. >> also going to protect our power. over the purse so that the appropriations we make are not diverted or impounded by the executive branch. >> now, congressman raskin, i want to talk to you about how democrats have been responding to this administration in general. i saw you talk to some of my colleagues before tuesday's remarks, from the president to both chambers of congress, about the notion of democrats fighting. we saw representative al green take a really strong stance in voicing his opposition to president

trump. where are the rest of the democrats in terms of their willingness to really bring this fight, both substantively and symbolically, to the republican party? >> i think. >> everybody is. >> completely determined. >> to defend our. >> democratic institutions. >> and. our processes and. our progress as a country. and of. >> course, we. >> are in the minority. >> very narrow. >> minorities in the house and the senate and the executive. and so. >> we are. >> working with. our friends, the democratic attorneys general, and people in civil society. >> to block. >> this lawlessness in court. >> we are going to. >> continue to participate in all the protests. >> i was. >> at my. >> 11th protest. >> yesterday at the nih. >> and i. >> was at the. >> science rally. >> the day. >> before that. >> i say rally. >> a day keeps the fascists away. >> and we're going to. >> continue to use. >> every lever that we have. >> in congress. >> in order. >> to stop. this chaos.

>> and. this assault. on the rights. >> of the people. and so if we. >> can pull. >> over just 1. >> or 2 republicans on. >> each bill, that is successful. >> for us. >> and if. >> we can. >> use the filibuster on the senate. >> side, that works, that works as well. >> and one. >> of the key reasons. >> that they're doing everything. >> lawlessly through elon. >> musk on this executive end run around. >> the constitution. >> is not. >> only. >> because they believe their. >> monarchs and their. >> kings, and they want to move. >> us to a dictatorial techno state, but. >> it's. >> because they can never. >> get this stuff. >> passed in congress. they're just. >> not enough. >> republicans who are. >> willing to fall. >> on the sword to support things like dismantling the agency for international development. or the consumer financial protection. >> bureau. >> or the nih. >> it just would not happen. and so they are avoiding the. >> lawmaking power of congress. >> just by doing. things unilaterally and. >> lawlessly. >> which is why. >> more. >> than 35. courts have. >> issued temporary.

>> restraining orders and preliminary injunctions against their actions. >> congressman, a protest a day keeps the fascists away. i want to stay on this democratic response for a quick moment. what does it say to the public when you have someone like al green step up in the way that he did, and you have ten democrats who vote in line of censure for that? congressman, it does not seem like there is a coordinated response in terms of the actual pushback. and i'm just wondering what the takeaway should be in terms of democratic messaging for the public. >> well. >> look, you know, that's that's. >> a fair criticism. >> you know, we've stayed overwhelmingly unified through this. and i think it is a. >> valid critique. >> that we did. >> not have one single strategic plan going into the donald trump's address on that night, whether it was. >> boycott, >> walkout, sign.

>> waving, you know. >> heckling. >> interruption. >> which is what. >> marjorie taylor. greene repeatedly did to joe biden. >> of course. >> biden dealt with that like a man and just responded to it. donald trump couldn't handle it. >> because he doesn't. >> have the verbal dexterity to respond. and so they had to have. >> al green removed. >> but the last. >> person who. >> used a cane like that in the house of representatives was preston. >> brooks. >> who went over and. >> beat the daylights. >> out of senator charles sumner. >> before the. >> civil war. and he wasn't even. >> censured for what he did, actually using a cane for violence, as opposed. >> just to. >> get people's attention. and, you know, al green was making a very strong, valid, substantive point. >> which is there is. >> no mandate to destroy medicaid. and the vast majority. >> of democrats rejected the idea of censuring him. and really, if. >> we were censuring anybody. >> it should have been donald trump, who i don't. >> think had been back. to our chamber. >> since he incited. >> a violent. insurrection against us. >> and then he.

>> used his pulpit in order to call a sitting member of the united states senate pocahontas. so i think a racial and ethnic slur from the president was. >> a far greater. >> insult to the dignity and. >> decorum. >> of our chamber. >> congressman, i'm a former federal employee. i know that there are literally hundreds of thousands of federal employees who are concerned not only about their jobs, but also the immediate future of the federal government. what is the message that is being sent to them about how they seem to be used as political pawns in this moment, and as dispensable workers, despite providing critical services to the american people? and how are democrats going to try and make sure that they are secure not just until september, but beyond with respect to the budget and the government remaining open? >> well, it's straight up authoritarianism. i mean, this is what viktor orban has done in hungary to clean out the civil

service with real expert professionals. >> and. >> people who are devoted to the public interest and replace them with a bunch of party hacks and sycophants to the dear leader. >> so they're really. >> destroying the product of more than a century of construction of a professional civil service in. >> the country. fortunately. >> the article. >> three branch. >> the courts. are stepping. >> up to the plate. >> right. >> now as unions go. >> in. as workers go in. >> to vindicate their rights. and a lot of probationary employees have won preliminary relief. >> in court. >> they're on probation, not because they did anything wrong. >> they're on probation. >> because either they were just hired or. >> they. >> were promoted because of their excellence in their past performance. and i brought one of those workers, a doctor from nih, doctor lauren mcgee, my constituent, who leads as the chief biologist, a unit working

on childhood cancers. and she got sacked on valentine's day. and that valentine's day massacre simply because she was a probationary employee. she was in that position. because she had just been promoted. and i've met tons of my constituents who have nothing but superior evaluations, who got sacked by elon musk. now. >> the. >> republicans had him go and visit their republican. >> conference. >> and they got the exact same kinds of complaints from the republicans who can't even go to town hall meetings anymore because they're besieged by constituents complaining about this lawlessness. and their answer was to give everybody elon musk's phone number. well, i want his phone number, too, then, because if they take this complete lawlessness and trampling of the civil service rights. >> of the workers, but they. >> say we'll carve out exceptions for. republicans at that point, it makes it even worse. now, this is just a complete partizan purge. so

they're violating the rights of civil service workers by making this a political purge. >> democratic representative jamie raskin of maryland, thank you for getting us started this sunday on velshi. and coming up. we like to think that the courts serve as a backstop for democracy. but what happens if trump doesn't comply with the courts? and this weekend marks 60 years since bloody sunday, an important and timely discussion on the state of civil rights in trump's america is ahead on velshi. i'm charles coleman jr, and you're watching msnbc. stay and you're watching msnbc. stay tuned. patients who have sensitive teeth but also want whiter teeth they have to make a choice one versus the other. sensodyne clinical white provides two shades whiter teeth as well as providing 24/7 sensitivity protection. patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf.

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late at night, just days after taking office, and it targeted several muslim majority countries. after sowing chaos and confusion, it was struck down by the courts, as was trump's second attempt. the supreme court eventually allowed a revised version to take effect, which president biden rescinded as one of his first acts in office. now, nbc news has learned that trump is prepping another travel ban, one that could be announced in the coming days and looks to expand on his original policy. joining me to discuss this from the white house is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. vaughn, thanks for beinge. tell us which countries would be affected by the new ban and when we might expect it to be implemented? >> right. >> we're expecting here within the next week or two, as soon as the next couple of days. this expanded travel ban to be implemented. it was on inauguration day that president trump signed an executive order ordering multiple agencies to prepare a list of proposed countries to be included on this travel ban within 60 days, which

would lead us here to the middle of march. and now, as part of this, this echoes, we expect what he promised on the campaign trail was to reinstate the travel ban that the supreme court had upheld in a 5 to 4 decision back in 2018, which barred individuals from five muslim majority countries those countries being iran, libya, somalia, syria and yemen, along with north korea and venezuela from being admitted into the united states again, the supreme court upheld that ban back in 2018, but now the expectation is from nbc news reporting that afghanistan and pakistan are likely to be included on that list. of course, of paramount concern are the tens of thousands of afghans who either already have visas to be in the united states or are still going through the application process, through the siv process visa process, which folks may recall back, particularly in 2021. these were a great many afghan nationals, though, that worked alongside the us military during

the war on terror. a great many of them as translators specifically, and that would be subject to these siv visas to be able to come to the united states if this ban were to go into effect, the likelihood that any of those individuals would be able to come to the united states would be effectively all but cut off. >> as nbc news's vaughn hillyard live at the white house. thank you for being with us. and coming up, i'll talk about how the courts are the most crucial battleground for democracy, with janine nielsen, the president and director counsel of the new york of the naacp legal defense and education fund. that and and education fund. that and more is coming up on alcs. —hi! —hi! ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. ♪♪ with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪

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ideology, banning books from school libraries and removing the so-called radical leftists he claimed were indoctrinating children. he won his race by almost 15 points. then, once in office, he announced that the bible must be in every oklahoma classroom. his team purchased copies of the god bless the usa bible marketed by donald trump, and this week they began shipping them to some classrooms across the state. but in one rural oklahoma district, school leaders are quietly refusing to comply with the bible mandate. they say walters rhetoric is harming teachers and making their jobs more difficult. nbc's antonia hylton traveled to oklahoma, where she spoke with walters and pressured him about his priorities. as the state faces a teacher shortage and some of the lowest reading and math scores in the country. she also visited the rural community of preston that is resisting walters directive. here's her story. >> in the small town of. >> preston.

>> oklahoma, students are welcomed off the bus and into breakfast by. educators who have often known their families for. decades or were once. >> students here themselves. >> a tight knit. >> pre-k through. >> 12 with more churches than school buildings nearby. typically a world away from tensions at a state capital. but in an era in which everything about education has been politicized. superintendent mark. >> hudson says. >> even preston. is in. >> the fray. >> is the. >> rhetoric impacting educators? >> sure it is. >> i mean. >> educators already are. leaving in droves. >> when people. >> say things like that right there. >> teachers are indoctrinating kids. >> teachers are. raising terrorists. >> who would want to be. >> a teacher? >> for months, many. >> educators have been on edge. >> last year. >> oklahoma's superintendent of schools ryan walters announced that the bible. >> must be in all of oklahoma's classrooms. his team purchased copies of this god bless the usa bible, a version marketed by president trump. >> i'm proud to endorse and encourage you to get this bible.

>> they're listed online for $60 each. >> the state couldn't confirm how much they paid. >> when we asked. >> after the new year's day terrorist attack in new orleans. >> he shared this. video suggesting teachers unions bore some responsibility for homegrown terrorism. >> you know, you have. >> schools that are teaching kids to hate. >> their country. >> then he. >> asked state lawmakers for $3 million. >> in taxpayer. >> funds to. >> purchase bibles. >> for every school. >> this week. they denied that request, but. >> walters says he's. >> shipping out hundreds of copies already purchased to schools. and today he's putting out a call for donations, partnering with the person who produced the god bless the usa bible. >> preston's leaders. >> are quietly refusing. >> sometimes we kind of. >> feel like we're on a raft by ourselves. >> scott mccullough. already wears many hats. high school principal, history. >> teacher. >> coach, bus. >> driver. >> a local southern baptist preacher. but bringing the. >> bible into. >> a public school. classroom seems to him a. >> step too far. >> we might make. >> some references. >> to the bible, but we're not.

we're not going. >> to pull it out. >> and bash him over. >> the head with it either. >> this morning he's. >> teaching his sophomores. >> about the trail of. >> tears, the forced relocation. >> of native american. tribes in oklahoma. >> the teachers don't really step around intimate subjects. >> because that's not what. >> real. >> life is going to be like. >> the world's not. >> always going. >> to. >> be there to kind of hold your hand. >> we went from the. >> classroom to. >> the capitol. >> to meet with state superintendent ryan walters. >> the bible has been taken out of the classroom by left wing. >> extremists that want to take our history away from our kids and lie to young people about what. happened throughout our history. >> you recorded. >> a video, you talk about left wing radicals, and you also did a prayer for president trump. >> i pray. >> in particular for president donald trump. >> is this really. >> about left wing activism, or is it about pushing your own political views? >> left wing activism has. >> been. >> pushed in the classroom. >> we absolutely are going to protect teachers right to pray. we are going to bring prayer back to school. >> i asked. >> again if he's pushing a republican agenda.

>> we are not pushing. >> an agenda. >> we're pushing an understanding. >> of history. i prayed for an. >> incoming president. >> i have. >> the right. >> to pray, just. >> as i prescribed in the video. it is up to you whether you want to pray or not. it is. >> up to. >> but it wasn't up to the districts to play the video, or to choose to not send it to parents. >> that's correct. and in the video. >> that doesn't sound. >> like religious liberty. >> absolutely it does. >> i guess you. >> didn't watch the whole video because. >> in the video i. >> said. >> okay, so what about the part where i. >> say, you don't have to pray? >> what about. >> the part? >> but you do have. >> to show me praying. >> you have to show a message from the superintendent over all the schools in the state. >> and if. >> they don't comply. >> with these. >> directives, what happens to. >> them if. >> they decide. >> to break. >> the law? >> if they decide to. >> indoctrinate kids by not teaching them american. >> history. >> they can be removed from the classroom. their schools can face accreditation issues. >> by not. >> obeying the law. >> the law. around religion in. >> public schools. >> long thought settled, may. >> soon change. >> in walters favor. a series of supreme court rulings. >> in the 1960s prohibited state sponsored religious practices. >> including mandatory bible

readings. >> and school. >> sponsored prayer, but with. >> recent rulings. >> in a key case in front of the highest court. now, many conservatives. >> hope all that will be reversed. >> traditionalists are going to. >> have some. back in principal. mccullough's classroom, we asked students what. they believe. >> about the separation. >> of church and state. >> as a. >> christian. >> the bible would be nice. >> but just for everyone else, i don't know if that would be a good. it's not all. >> parents want their. >> children exposed to certain religions just because they. >> may have a different religion, or no religion at all. >> do you think. >> the bible should. >> be. >> in the classroom? >> yeah. >> because i feel like people. >> need it. it might get a good impact on their life. the word of god is always good. >> after a long day of teaching and administrative duties. >> principal mccullough. >> drives his own. >> students home. >> are we hugging? >> he knows these families. >> many share his deep faith and his values. >> what does this. >> school community mean to you? >> i'm getting. >> emotional because of. >> i'm thinking back to the.

>> teachers that taught me. >> they instilled. >> in me. the. ability to. >> believe in myself, that i could. >> be whatever. >> i wanted to be. >> that's where. >> i want to be. >> in each and every situation. >> he hopes they understand that if they. >> want to hear him preach the word of god. >> they're always welcome. in his pews. >> while ryan. >> walters is. >> facing opposition from state lawmakers and the republican governor. >> of oklahoma. you really. >> have to look. >> at the long game here. >> the state. >> of oklahoma is at the. >> center of. >> a key. >> upcoming supreme court case that centers. around a public. charter catholic school receiving public money, public. sponsorship from the state. that is a first of its kind situation. and in fact, civil liberties groups. civil rights lawyers, have been arguing that this school violates the constitution, the. >> separation of church. >> and state. but in front of this conservative. leaning supreme court, if they side with oklahoma, that would change the game not just for that state, but the entire country. and

superintendent ryan walters sees himself as being at the. forefront of this movement. >> that was nbc's antonia hilton reporting. and coming up, if you feel like you're suffering from whiplash, that's kind of the point. president trump's shifting positions and the constant current of chaos in the white house is a long used tactic to distort reality. i'll tactic to distort reality. i'll explain more coming up. here i am—field trip chaperone! before preventing migraine with qulipta, it was hard keeping plans. and look at me now! you'll never truly, forget migraine, but qulipta reduces attacks, making more zero-migraine days possible. don't take if allergic to qulipta. get help right away for serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing, face, lip, or tongue swelling, itching or rash which may occur when taking qulipta or days after. common side effects include nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. learn how abbvie could help you save. qulipta—the forget-you-get migraine medicine. are you looking for a walk-in tub

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begun. >> welcome back. i'm charles coleman junior, filling in for ali velshi today. now it's been another whirlwind week for the trump administration. tariffs on canada and mexico were set to kick in tuesday. then there were the exceptions for the auto manufacturers. then the whole thing got pushed back another month. now, if the speed of it all, not just the tariffs, but the doj's firings and foreign policy shifts too, are disorienting, then that's because it's actually the point. chaos is the point. erica green writes in the new york times that, quote, trump's contradictions are his ultimate cover. since storming back into office, mr. trump has unleashed a used a dizzying rhetorical tactic of shifting positions like quicksand, muddying his messages and contradicting himself sometimes in the same day. the inconsistencies have presented the american public with dueling narratives at every

turn, allowing people to pick and choose what they want to believe about the president's intentions. joining me now is ruth ben-ghiat, professor of history at nyu and author of the book strongmen from mussolini to the present. and douglas brinkley, humanities chair and professor of history at rice university and a us presidential historian for the new york historical society. thank you both for being here. ruth, can you explain on this idea of chaos being a strongman tactic and how it's being used in this administration? >> yeah. >> it's part of first of all, it's part of psychological warfare to make people feel as kind of unmoored. and, you know, and upset as possible, and also to feel that there's nothing they can do to stop this because there's no logic to it. but this is also part of the authoritarian playbook.

mussolini did many of the same things. and he used to say that, you know, he would say, point a to one audience in the morning and the exact opposite in the afternoon. and authoritarians have often reversed policies and done impulsive things. and this is part of the pathology of strongman rule, where nobody he doesn't listen to anyone, the strongman, and he doesn't take good advice. and they're impulsive creatures. they're transactional creatures. so this chaos and upheaval is part it's a it's a feature and not a bug of strongman rule. and now we're experiencing it. >> doug maria ressa, who is a journalist and authoritarian expert, had an interview recently with jon stewart where she said this about how authoritarians attack government functions from the inside. >> once an. autocrat. to. >> be is democratically elected. so we are. electing illiberal.

>> leaders democratically. >> once they're elected. >> they crush. >> the institutions. >> in their. >> own country. >> can you explain why government institutions find themselves directly in the crosshairs for authoritarian regimes? >> well. >> i think. >> here in the united states, we. >> thought we. >> were immune. >> from authoritarianism. we believe. >> so fully. >> in our founding principles. we cherish our documents. >> like the constitution and bill of. >> rights and. >> the rest that were. >> taken a little bit aback, that. >> donald trump. >> seems to have no. >> knowledge of past law, doesn't care about. >> the rule of law. >> and wants. >> to roll back the. >> clock to. >> really do away. >> with a regulatory america. meaning anytime he feels. >> the federal. >> government is looking. >> in on a company. >> or an. >> industry, he doesn't like it.

hence, you're seeing him scrap climate change. >> legislation. >> try to undo clean. >> air. >> and. >> water acts. >> gut the. >> environmental protection. >> agency that. >> was created by richard nixon, gut. >> fema, that. >> was created by jimmy. >> carter. >> and even go all the way. back to try to undo the civil rights acts of 64 and 65. and he's willing to attack medicaid and medicare, it. looks like. so this is somebody who wants to kind of go back. >> in time. >> to the 19th. century or, you know, spheres of influence thinking, you. >> know. >> you could. >> be. >> king of the western hemisphere. that would be. >> donald trump and then. >> putin's king of his empire. >> and, you know. china is. >> running. >> running their. >> authoritarian regime. it's decidedly not modern. it's not post-modern, and it's not in. >> in vogue. >> in any. >> democratic society to have a authoritarian. try to crush and unde our venerable institutions. >> both of you two are so well

versed in the historical context that's necessary to process everything. ruth. there's so many times that you can tell someone, look, i told you so and so i know that you're probably exhausted in thinking about the number of times over the past just two years that you and i have talked and everything that you've said was going to happen has happened. and here we are. so i'm going to say it for you that you told everyone. so given that that's the case and given everything that you know about this rhetoric, about this process, what is the next phase that we are actually looking at as how things develop? if we are looking through, looking at this through a historical lens? >> i think. well, the positive part of this, because they are not going to, you know, reverse themselves there. they feel very empowered. we saw that in the state of the union and everything going on with putin.

so they're they're going to, you know, keep barreling forward with the help of musk. but the next stage is also that civil society starts to mobilize in a more in a more, you know, organized manner. we're seeing protests all over. and there will be a reckoning. that's the word i'm using in my substack, lucid. there will be a reckoning, as people understand that their rights, their benefits are going to be taken away. that government itself, which we took for granted, many of us, all the things it did, just stability, competence, all of that will be taken. what is it elon musk says put through the wood chipper. and so there will be a reckoning that there will be civil society protests. and that is something i foresee. >> so let's pick up exactly where that leaves off. doug. ruth talked about the fact that there's a reckoning. and now i'm going to draw on your historical expertise, expertise, rebuilding

something that has been destroyed or shut down or cut off or eliminated in the ways that we're seeing the federal government reshaped. it's not an easy task. so what does that look like when you're talking about things like the consumer financial protection bureau, for example, or the department of education, for example, if that's somehow shut down or gutted, what does the sort of readjustment and composition of the government look like going forward, after the sort of reckoning that ruth describes takes place? >> well. jimmy carter, who just. >> died, had. >> a book. >> called always the reckoning. >> and there. >> will be a reckoning. >> for this. >> wrecking ball. you can count. >> on that. >> usually demagogue. they can grow in stature for a while. they can become. >> as large. >> as the. >> macy's day. >> thanksgiving parade float, but. they then get deflated. >> by trying. >> to do as much as. >> he is right now, and by starting. >> to. >> let americans realize. >> he's using. >> things like a hard pain

economy. who's looking for the. >> hard pain. >> right now? he's talking about. >> touching social. >> security. >> medicaid, medicare. >> this is. >> really going. >> to hurt people. in red states. >> his supporters. >> and of course. >> we're always whoever's president. >> it's a fickle wall. street stock market. >> goes down, trump. >> gets blamed. >> so he has to kind of construct. >> an economic. miracle here in his first year before we. >> get into. >> the midterms with this tariff policy. >> and right now, one. >> day it's 25%, the next day it's off the table, then it's on. >> and most. >> people are just scoffing and. >> laughing at it. >> so, you. >> know. this is not. >> the way. to run a presidency. >> what he's doing. >> but he's. >> we're going. >> to have to he's going to have to deliver on the. economic numbers by the fall, if he has any hope of creating this transformational president that he dreams of. by the time trump is in, peters out, you will have. federal government come. >> back because. >> he's hiring. >> essential people.

>> and many of you know, you just can't. they're looking now to just kill national park visitor centers. >> i mean. >> who does this? >> what kind. >> of. >> thinking is this? >> how do. you you must. >> not love america to try to squash. >> and dismantle. >> national monuments. >> and he's even. >> putting up for sale the. murrah building in oklahoma city from 1995. >> where. >> oklahoma built a. >> memorial and a federal building there to. replace that horrible terror terrorist. attack by timothy mcveigh. and now. >> trump wants to put it up for sale. who cares. about it being an oklahoma city shrine and national memorial? >> this kind. >> of callousness and fridays is. >> firing day. i think it's. >> going to wear. thin very quickly. >> the best way to understand the president is to know the past. ruth ben-ghiat and douglas brinkley, thank you to you both. more velshi after a short break. more velshi after a short break. stay tuned. -what've you got there, larry? -time machine. you gonna go back and see how the pyramids were built or something?

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>> welcome back. you're watching velshi. i'm charles coleman, junior, sitting in for ali today. i want to turn now to what is shaping up to be the most consequential battleground of the new trump era, the courts. it's not hyperbole when i say that america's future is in the hands of the judiciary. since taking office, donald trump has moved to dismantle the federal bureaucracy through a series of executive orders, directives and threats. his administration has fired the heads of independent agencies, frozen billions in spending, and rewritten policies designed to make the federal workforce more equitable. we've seen little real pushback from a congress controlled by republicans, who in turn appear to be largely controlled by trump. and so it's left up to the courts to hold the line against some of the president's more dubious moves to reshape government in the image of maga. the trump

administration now faces at least 100 lawsuits, and federal judges have issued more than a dozen temporary restraining orders and preliminary injunctions against his actions. now, at least two judges have issued motions to enforce because the government ignored their orders. meanwhile, the supreme court has rejected trump's overreach in two separate cases. whether this administration will respect these rulings is another matter entirely. as the new york times reports so far, administration lawyers appear to be slow walking the enforcement of some orders while finding loopholes to avoid compliance with others. outside the courtroom, trump's officials and congressional republicans have openly questioned the legitimacy of the courts, even calling for the impeachment of judges who rule against the president. this dangerous rhetoric, as the new york times described it, describes it, is, quote, undermining the separation of powers that has been at the core of american governance since the nation's beginning. that rhetoric is also fueling a rise

in threats against judges, according to us marshals. all this in less than 100 days of donald trump being in office. my friends, buckle up because the fight to save our democracy has only just begun. and one of the first battles is being fought in america's courtrooms. for more on this, i'm joined by jenny jenny wilson, the president and director counsel of the naacp legal defense fund. she joins us today from a rainy and windy selma, alabama, the site of the 1965 bloody sunday march, a defining moment in the civil rights movement. jenny, thank you so much for being here. i just want to get started with you. talk to me about the significance of today, with respect to everything else that is going on contextually around where our government is right now. >> you know, charles, every year we come to selma to pay homage

to the foot soldiers who delivered the multiracial democracy to us a. mere 60. >> years ago. >> their march. >> the brutality that. they suffered at the hands of. >> the state. ultimately led to the passage. >> of the. >> voting rights act. >> of. >> 1965. >> which i call. >> the. >> birth certificate. >> of this democracy. >> and we. >> are here. >> today at a moment when our democracy is in csis, our democracy is under threat, and we. >> are hurtling. >> towards a constitutional crisis, as you mentioned. but what. >> we do every. >> year when. >> we. >> come is to. get renewed strength. >> we refuel. >> this is. >> not. >> just a reenactment. >> of a march. >> it is. >> a drill. >> because we know that in. >> this moment. >> it's not. >> only the power. >> of. >> the courts, it's the power of the. people that will be the. >> force to. counter what we're seeing. >> as a quick. >> descent towards.

>> authoritarianism and fascism. >> you know, you use the word a drill in the sense that this is not something that we can play with in this moment. can you just underscore for viewers how significant it is if this administration forgoes the authority of the courts and basically says, we're not going to do what we have been ordered to do? what that does to the legitimacy of not just the judiciary, but overall american democracy. >> yeah. >> well we will. >> we're in. uncharted waters, so. >> we know that. >> we have dealt with a federal government that has arrayed its resources against the. >> american public and. especially black people before. >> but this is different. >> this is a. >> in the face of decades of progress and evolving standards. >> about democracy. >> and respect for the rule of law. >> we. >> now have a regime that is

installed and. >> that has. >> taken liberties that don't exist, that has. abused executive power, and that is threatening. to disobey court orders, potentially. and if that should happen. >> it really. >> will be in the. >> hands of the. supreme court. to order our law enforcement agencies to do what is. necessary and required. to rein in this abuse of authority. >> and that means treating. >> this government. >> like any other individual or entity that. >> is not above. >> the law. that may require. >> the. >> intervention of u.s. attorneys. >> of the department of justice. >> we know that those are controlled right now by this administration. >> but unlike the president. >> those entities. >> and those. >> individuals do not. >> have immunity. >> so people will. be forced to make a choice. >> about their own. >> liberty, their own freedom. their own threat of. >> prosecution and conviction and. >> prison time. >> or protecting a. >> wannabe dictator.

>> and someone who. is willing. >> to defy law. >> because they feel that they. >> are shielded by immunity. and let me say this. >> the supreme court also has the ability to. >> reverse its precedent if it realizes that it did the. >> wrong thing. >> by extending. >> the immunity that it did to. >> the president. >> so it's important that. >> we remember. >> there are ways. >> to reverse. >> course here, and that may ultimately be necessary. >> jenny, i want to ask you about an executive order that the president issued on thursday that kind of flew under the radar for a lot of people. it essentially, it seeks to limit challenges legally to the president's actions by requiring that plaintiffs pay monetary security payments if an injunction is issued. this relies on a very, very remote and little known federal law. can you talk a little bit more about this and its significance? >> sure. so again. >> mr. trump is attempting to

legislate. >> from the white house desk, which he has. >> absolutely no. >> power and. >> authority to do. so. >> i do. >> not believe. that this executive. >> order will. >> stand, as so many of his. >> executive orders. >> have not. >> i believe. >> it will be quickly enjoined and ultimately struck down, because we have federal rules of civil procedure. that go through a vetting process that receive comments that. >> are considered. >> by jurists. not by a president who has no law degree, who has no expertise. >> and who is. >> clearly trying to manipulate the rules to shield himself and his administration from accountability. you can see right. >> through. >> it there's. >> no veil, there's no mask. >> it is. >> an. >> intentional end. >> run around the legislative process. >> and the rulemaking process. and so again, we will rely on our courts, officers of. >> the. >> courts. >> the judiciary. >> that has an interest. >> in ensuring. >> that we have separation of powers. >> and three strong.

>> formidable branches of government. and it's going to be. >> up to the supreme. >> court. >> ultimately to. >> save itself. >> and its own authority. >> by pushing. >> back on this overreach. >> and this abuse. >> of executive. >> authority. >> jenny, my friend, the symbolism of you as a civil rights attorney holding the line in the midst of wind and rain, in a storm in selma on bloody sunday is not lost on me. >> and lightning. >> and lightning. thank you so much for all that you do and continue to do at the ldf. that is jenny nelson, ladies and gentlemen. and coming up on another hour of velshi, we will have a lot more after a short (fisher investments)r a short at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) you can't be that different. (fisher investments) we are. we have a team of specialists not only in investing, but also in financial and estate planning and more. (other money manager) your clients rely on you for all that? (fisher investments) yes. and as a fiduciary, we always put their interests first.

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