to, you know, it's what michelle obama said when we go, you know, when they go low, we go high. that's that. we can't go high anymore. we got to throw that whole adage out the window. we've got to understand right now, the moment requires us to fight hard. right now. this what we're seeing is not normal. i'd love to see us go back to a day when both parties worked together and tried to find solutions for the american people. that's not the moment we're in. so we can. you know, i'm not going to say i was going to say, but, you know, at the end. >> say what you were going to say. it's a podcast. >> well, this old saying in minnesota, you can wish in one hand and you can in the other, and you can see which one fills up faster. right? the reality is this the we can't go back. we cannot go back to those days right now. >> oh my jen psaki got the dnc chair throwing those punches. oh okay. again, that episode drops tomorrow, folks. but for now, stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up

right here on msnbc. >> one congressman. >> says the chances of war are going up dramatically with china. this hour i'll get reaction from former pentagon deputy spokesperson sabrina singh on why that's happening now. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone. to alex witt reports. we begin with breaking news from selma, alabama. as right now, civil rights activists and demonstrators are gathering to mark the 60th anniversary of bloody sunday, when law enforcement officers violently attacked americans fighting for the right to vote. >> it's fitting and. >> proper that we are. >> celebrating six years of bloody sunday in selma today,

but this activity is all the week. highlight the fact that when change comes to this country, it's primarily people of color leading the charge. >> we've got a live report for you in just a few minutes and breaking news from washington, d.c. secret service officials say officers shot an armed man in a confrontation this morning, just a few blocks away from the white house. we are awaiting an update. we're going to bring you more details when we get them. and new fallout this hour from president donald trump's tariff back and forth. trump's on again, off again tariffs are not just impacting wall street. consumer confidence is also taking a hit. here's part of a report from nbc's steve kornacki. >> the consumer. >> confidence index, a monthly report gauging the sentiment of consumers. you see these numbers? it clocked in at 98.3 this month. look, the higher the number is, the more consumers are expressing optimism about the economy. so it fell. you see

here the number fell seven points in the last month. that declined seven points in one month. that is the biggest single month decline we've seen in this index in four years. >> a new reaction to the tariff chaos. here's some of what we heard on the sunday talk shows. >> we want change. >> but there's reckless. >> change. and then there's responsible change. >> and the way that he's on again off again, you know, pounding canada as if they're the exact same thing as china. it just creates this chaotic feeling. >> we're in a triage situation. tariffs are an attempt to stop the bleeding from the hemorrhaging of jobs in america. for the last 33 years. >> and a vote on the gop stopgap government funding proposal could come to the house floor as early as tuesday. that bill increases defense spending and veteran health care funding, but it cuts items like international peacekeeping and nih research. democrats are still holding out hope for a bipartisan budget.

>> what i want to see get done is a 30 day extension for us to be able to continue these bipartisan talks, and then to actually be able to come up with a congressional deal rather than just kick the can down the road with the cr for the rest of the year. >> lots of ground to cover, and we've got reporters and analysts in place ready to discuss all of this. we're going to start with that guy. my friend, nbc's vaughn hillyard is at the white house for us. vaughn, welcome. so lots of questions surrounding tariffs. did we get any answers from the administration today? >> not much in terms of the direction that they're going to go other than from howard lutnick, the commerce secretary, to the trump administration, suggesting that president trump has every intention of doubling down, keeping these tariffs intact and placing reciprocal tariffs on other countries besides mexico, canada and china come april 2nd. so this is going to be a notable week here because you are looking at the s&p 500 for just one example,

dropping by more than 3% the last week after president trump's initial tariff announcement, of course, he rescinded some of those initial tariffs, particularly on goods between canada and mexico that are covered by the usmca trade agreement that his own that his own administration negotiated six years ago. but there are serious questions coming from the northern and southern border, as well as overseas, about what the next steps are from this trump administration. and that is what we do not have answers to. i want to let you listen to lutnick on meet the press with our kristen welker earlier today. >> so these two massive. >> moves are going to happen and you know who's going to pay for that tariffs. and outside countries who just leech off of us, lean on us, earn money off of us. they've got to start to pay. i want president trump wants the american people to start to understand the external revenue service should start to pay. yes. some products that are made foreign might be more expensive, but american products

will get cheaper. and that's the point. >> of course, through that first trump administration, there were active trade wars that then president trump went out with mexico and canada. ultimately, that turned into the usmca trade agreement. and there was a trade war that he initiated with china that saw deep impacts to particularly the u.s. not only manufacturing but also agricultural industries here. and so there are a lot of questions, as indicated by the economic forecasts and the extent to which americans have a positive view and a confident view about the direction of the economy. there are serious questions one and a half months into this administration that is not only reflected in the stock market, but also reflected in the price of goods, in the extent to which economic forecasters are asking serious questions about the direction of this economy, in large part because of the policies that have been implemented by the trump administration so far. >> listen, i got to say the r word. i'm not even going to say

it in full. we have seen that in headlines. could this happen? nobody wants it to. that's for sure. but we'll have you following it closely for us. thank you so much, vaughn. let's go now to some breaking news. and nbc's jorge solis, who is in selma, alabama. that is where the annual bloody sunday remembrance march is scheduled to get going any time now. so, jorge, welcome. what can you tell us about this day's event? >> hey, alex, it's a very somber day here in selma, alabama. >> it's windy. >> and chilly here, but you still have a number. hundreds that have gathered here at the foot of the edmund pettus bridge that walk, as you mentioned, about to get started any moment here, we have spoken to so many that have made the pilgrimage here, some that come every year, some who are doing it for the first time. we've talked to congressional leaders who took the walk. we spoke to senator angela alsobrooks yesterday who said this was her first time walking the edmund pettus bridge, and she talked about how powerful and how poignant it was to be there, where doctor king stood, where john lewis stood, and remembering all the sacrifices that helped get the

voting rights act passed. and speaking with a number of families here, of course, concerned about where things are in today's rhetoric, in today's political climate, they want to make sure the history and that torch of information is passed down. i want to play a little bit of an interview we did with some of the leaders here that are helping with the march today. take a listen. these were people. >> that had a thirst for freedom. and they marched and they walked for 54 miles from from one town in alabama to the next town in alabama under duress. this was something that they did because they said, we want a better america. and so you fast forward to today. they passed the baton to us. and you fast forward today. and eerily, there's a lot of similarities. and so we cannot rest. so this is a moment to reflect. but this is also really a moment to take that baton. and what do we do with it to move forward. >> yeah. alex, very briefly, i'll just tell you a quick story. i spoke to a gentleman by

the name of andrew reeves, who was seven years old. he was here remembering and going to march here today again. he says he remembers being chased by dogs when he was just seven years old. just getting some of the stories that we're hearing here on the 60th anniversary of bloody sunday. alex. >> a profound memory, i'm sure, for him, which is why he is there again 60 years later. all right, george solis, thank you so much. and we'll keep an eye on things when that march gets underway with me. right now we have don calloway, host of the caucus room podcast, along with republican strategist susan del percio and former republican congressman david jolly. both are msnbc political analyst. you're also my sunday family. quick round of questions to each of you before we get into the real meat of things. later, as we watch don this march across the selma bridge about to get underway, reflect on the 60th anniversary and how different it is from even the 59th. i mean, the country's change in leadership, bringing what some might describe as a chaotic makeover. what's your perspective? >> well, i think this presidency

is the codification of what we've seen over the last five years in his party, of the banning of history and books. and that's all very prescient right now in selma. but i have to disagree with our field reporter. it's never a somber day. it's called the jubilee for a reason, because it is a celebration of our heroes who got us this far. and the bridge is symbolic of that. there's never a solid. it's never a somber day, but it's always a celebration. look, my sons were there just last week. it's not really up to government to acknowledge it. it's the last. several presidents have acknowledged these milestone anniversaries at selma, but it's not really up to government to do it. it's up to the people to understand and gather and acknowledge our history, because we realize, particularly in this year, that we can't properly count on government to tell the story, but it's not their responsibility under any administration. it's our responsibility to elevate our saints and heroes and teach the babies. >> yeah, i love that, susan. donald trump's efforts to remake america in the span of, what, less than two months now, it seems, in contrast to the spirit of what we are witnessing today

in selma. give me your thoughts on that. >> well, i. >> wish i could be so uplifting. >> as don, because. >> that was a really beautiful. description of. >> what the day should be. yeah, so i'm. grateful for that. unfortunately, as i'm watching the. visuals and. >> i'm thinking we have. >> a president who once before said he wanted. to use the national guard to cut through protesters like butter. >> i just. >> wonder how i'm concerned, especially in light of january 6th. what level of violence would he allow today? and knowing, you know, how. >> far have we really. >> come in 60 years? when you have a president like donald trump in office, you pick up on that, david. i mean, give me your thoughts on today again. and given the administration that's in power right now in the white house. >> i'd say. >> even. preceding the administration. >> during my years. in congress, sadly, i would. suggest that. today's republican party, largely not everybody, but largely sees. the.

>> fight for civil rights. >> and racial. >> justice as something of the history books. >> and not. >> a contemporary issue. and if anything. that is, you know. >> to suggest. >> they would be agnostic about the issue. but we've seen evidence that. >> they're. >> actually adversarial towards the advancement of civil rights. and racial justice. i mean, the attack. >> and unwinding of. dei essentially. >> is an. >> attack on. >> race and ethnicity. they know it. it's a dog whistle for it. but you can. >> go back just a year or two and see the attacks on voting rights in many states, red states across the country after january 6th, it. disproportionately hit. >> voters of color. >> and then we know when it comes to government resources, government funding, the inequities in communities. >> of color when it comes to health. >> care and education. >> and the last mile. >> corridors of transportation. i think republicans classically had gotten away with the notion. >> that equality. >> of opportunity is where. >> the story stops. >> well, we haven't achieved. equality of opportunity. equality. equality of opportunity is a calling for policy. >> changes to actually. achieve that. today's republican party

simply. >> doesn't see it that way, is antagonistic to it. but in any light, unfortunately not champions of. >> what we are seeing today in selma. >> wow. sage comments from all of you. not surprisingly, on this important day, i'm going to have you stay there because we are going to talk about donald trump and retribution. and i'm going to ask if his policies potentially being formed by maybe a dislike of justin trudeau and volodymyr zelensky. so you guys can think on that and i'll see you soon. meantime, the view from canada about president trump's tariff talk. and it is not a picture and it is not a picture postcard. we're back in 90s. ♪ are you having any fun? ♪ ♪ what you getting out of living? ♪ ♪ who cares for what you've got ♪ ♪ if you're not having any fun? ♪ ♪ are you having any laughs? ♪ ♪ are you getting any loving? ♪ ♪ if other people do, why can't you? ♪ ♪ have a little fun ♪ ♪ and have ♪

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♪♪ bringing the power of nature... ...into your new chapter. ruling liberal party is set to hold leadership elections later today. outgoing prime minister justin trudeau leaves at a time of strained relations with the u.s. as president trump launched new tariffs, paused some, then promised more in just this last week. here's what some officials are saying today. >> reporter we. >> launched a drug war, not a trade war, and it was part of a negotiation to get. canada and mexico to stop shipping fentanyl across our borders. and as we've watched them make progress on the drug war, then we've relaxed some of the tariffs that we've put on them because they're making progress. >> i'm not against it in principle, especially against china, but canadians, i mean, as the state that, you know, our for our farmers, that's our number one market is canada. so

i just want a scalpel and not a sledgehammer for these things. >> joining me now is candace lang, president and ceo of the canadian chamber of commerce. candace, thanks for joining us here. i'm curious, the mood in canada after this last week of the on again, somewhat off again tariffs from the u.s. >> well, thanks for having. >> me, alex. and you are right, it is not picture postcard at all. our polling data tells us where we stand, but also it is just a palpable sense of loss and grief amongst canadians. the majority are expressing anger and frustration, and the remaining are really rooted in a sense of probably fear and anxiousness, and that fear and anxiousness, i think, is exacerbated by the state of politics in canada. and today is a very big day. we will have a new prime minister announced later today, and then expect to

go quite quickly into an election following that, potentially on april 20th 8th or may 5th. we will see. but i think, alex, we are anticipating and hoping that a new prime minister means a pivot in what we're seeing today in canada-u.s. relations. and as you've just shared, we know president trump is pretty clear about his feelings for prime minister trudeau. so that that's my biggest hope is that today marks a pivot and we can find a new way forward and focus on what matters most. >> i know that the canadian chamber of commerce collaborated in dc last week with the u.s. chamber of commerce and focused on manufacturing, also supply chains between our countries. what did american representatives say about the tariffs? are they alarmed? are they worried? >> yeah. well, i think it it depends on which americans you're talking with. definitely. across the business community,

we know how strong our cross border integrated supply chains are and the benefits to our both of our economies typically. and i was in d.c. last week for a supply chain mission. and we talked amongst the business community most, most often we would be having those discussions. how do we bolster and strengthen our cross border integrated supply chains? this time our discussion was a bit different. we were talking more about, you know, how do we ensure there's a full comprehension of how integrated and beneficial our supply chains are, which is just so important, and it seems to be kind of behind the strategy of the trump administration. unfortunately, to use a broad approach to walk in with a broad approach to tariffs and then walk back based on the regressive impacts that are felt. we know what the impacts are. but i think, alex,

what's what's troubling is i think we have to walk through, feel the pain points in order to find our way through, even though we know how beneficial our supply chains are to our economies. >> yeah, well that's nothing. you want to look forward to those pain points, but you're probably right. let me ask you about this weekend. china announcing plans to levy retaliatory tariffs against canada farm and food imports. how concerned are you about these? i guess seeming ripple effects from trump's calls for tariffs on global trade? >> well, in terms of the ripple effects, i think we need to actually go back to last summer when canada very much aligned with the u.s. on the same team on imposing tariffs on evs and steel. and now, when you look at the timing of these tariffs china is imposing on canada, i think it's safe to assume and take that as a very clear

message to canada, putting pressure on the country of thinking very carefully where one aligns and if one aligns the message might be with the u.s, then you are in the crosshairs with china. and that has huge impacts on our producers. you know, my family farms, they produce canola, they raise pigs. this these impacts are very, very real. and i think alex and it was on your program earlier today, i mean, the biggest grievances that the america first trade policy is trying to solve for don't lie with canada. in fact, canada is the number one partner who can align with the u.s. in, you know, bringing back manufacturing and restoring trade balances, working together in partnership. canada plays by the rules. and i think we have to remember who's important to have on the team. >> let me ask you quickly, is it clear to canadians what donald trump wants and why you have

heard him say he wants to annex canada, make it the 51st state? he's rather disrespectfully referred to justin trudeau as a governor, which would be of a state. is it clear to you what he wants? >> well, i hope to get some clarity today because i expect i need to hope for a pivot today and that some of that jab, i'll call it with the 51st state commentary was directed at prime minister trudeau. and we know the relations could have been much better there between president trump and prime minister trudeau. so, alex, i mean, fingers crossed. you know, i think i think and hope we see a shift. i would expect that to pivot today. and we can look at ending the tariff war and pivoting into a discussion of our shared interests. i would

say the other things canadians are grappling with is just, you know, we're swept up in these broad tariffs. we have these false statements, you know, and claims made about the imbalance of our trade relationship when it's balanced, unfair, like where numbers come from on tariffs we're supposedly imposing, which we're not. these things are clearly outlined in our usmca trade agreement. and that's where we need to steer into. next is get back at the table, have real discussions, not social posts about our trade relationship. >> but i but i agree, you can keep your fingers crossed as you're back at that table. candace lang, thank you so much. good to talk with you. we have new talks set to begin an hours in the push to bring peace to ukraine. why? it appears the goalposts have moved since that goalposts have moved since that oval office b you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. that's why pnc bank strives to be boring with your money.

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specifically. >> to fight harder. >> what can you tell voters tonight who say you could be doing more than you're doing? can you tell us what's going on in the senate right now? do you know what the d.o.j. group was trying to access at social security that would have caused the administrator to resign? right now, in our time today, the unpopularity of what they're doing really does create real political pressure at the source to stop it, to at least slow him down. >> new today, president donald trump, in an interview responding to allies concerns ukraine cannot survive without intelligence and military aid cut off this week by the administration. >> well, it may not survive anyway. but, you know, we have some weaknesses with russia. you know, it takes two. look, it was not going to happen that war and it happened. so now we're stuck with this mess. i'm the one that put sanctions on russia. i'm the

one that gave the javelins against russia. you know, i've been very tough, but i got along well with putin. and because i got along well with, oh, they say, oh, he's so nobody's ever been. putin would be the first to say it. nobody's been tougher than trump. >> well, this comes as ukraine president volodymyr zelensky heads to saudi arabia for talks ahead of u.s. talks there with ukrainian officials. and joining me now here in the studio are actually first we have from london, nbc's molly hunter. i'm sorry, molly, i would have loved to welcome you here in the studio as well. but nonetheless, give me the latest on these talks and the situation in ukraine. >> wish i was sitting right next to you, alex. but here in london. that's right. we are very, very focused on what president zelensky's week looks like. i will just bring you up to date on the weekend. it was one of the deadliest weekends this year for ukrainians, and i'll just run through what we've learned from the ukrainian air force 24 killed, 72 wounded across the country. that was friday night into saturday. the town hit the hardest dobropillia. it's in the eastern donetsk region. 11 people killed

and president zelenskyy focused on this town. in his nightly address last night, he said that russian ballistic missiles hit the town center. there was a pause, and then a third strike that hit the first responders who had been responding to that. so that is the current situation in ukraine. last night, over 100 drone strikes, the ukrainian air force said they shot most of them out. but of course, this comes, most of them out of the sky. excuse me, but of course this comes after that oval office blowup. it comes after president trump suspended u.s. military aid and then after president trump suspended intelligence sharing. and this is really making a lot of headlines across europe and of course, in ukraine. alex, just for our audience's benefit, intelligence sharing with ukraine previously meant things like satellite imagery so the ukrainians could track incoming russian aerial attacks. it meant things like data targeting info. so ukrainian soldiers, especially those who were using u.s. made weapons, could more precisely hit russian positions. it was also things like signals intelligence now watching in washington, d.c. and listening. today you just played that clip from president trump. other republicans were out speaking

today, also on fox news, and senator lindsey graham was speaking again publicly. we have heard a lot from him in the last week and a half or so on ukraine. alex, let's take a listen. i'll talk to you on the back end. doing a. >> deal. >> with ukraine is. beneficial to both countries. >> it's not extortion. >> wouldn't it be nice to be. >> able to do a. >> deal with ukraine, where we can make $500. >> billion. in the critical. >> minerals space. >> for our own. >> economy, give them money, help them. >> develop their resources. >> so they can grow their economy and defend themselves. president trump's going to end this war justly. we should do this critical minerals deal. we should keep arming ukraine and providing them intelligence until a cease fire. >> alex. we should keep arming ukraine and keep providing them intelligence. that is not the current position of the administration. but we understand this. we're looking at all of these moves from russia, ramping up these attacks on ukraine. language coming out of washington is kind of pre-negotiation moves. as you mentioned, president zelenskyy heads to saudi arabia. he goes tomorrow. and alex, he's meeting

with crown prince mohammed bin salman. he is not staying in town, though, for the high level negotiations between the u.s. and ukraine that kick off later this week. just the bilateral talks. and we know on the u.s. side, we know secretary of state marco rubio and steve witkoff will be there, and we'll be watching very closely to see what kind of progress is made, obviously, in those talks between those two and whether any changes come out of the administration as far as intelligence sharing, as far as arming, as far as continuing to help, because certainly on this side of the pond, alex, europeans are very clear that ukraine needs the support right now, or it will be very damaging for the war effort. >> that is a very unified message there for sure. molly hunter, thank you so much. well, joining me now here in the studio, we have former pentagon deputy press secretary sabrina singh. that was news to me. what she just reported that vladimir zelensky is not sticking around for the meetings. it's not a meeting with donald trump that i might not expect. ten days after the blowup in the oval office, what can be accomplished without vladimir zelensky at the table?

>> you know, maybe, maybe it's a good thing. you know, we still, i think, need some cooler heads to prevail. and so you have each other's counterparts there to engage and kind of get into the substance of whatever this so-called cease fire to a peace deal looks like. i think that's okay. and at the end of the day, because donald trump is not there at those talks, i don't think it necessarily makes sense for zelensky to be part of those talks. but, you know, people like the minister of defense, like umarov and others are probably sitting in those meetings alongside the secretary of state, marco rubio. >> so it's my understanding as well that mohammed bin salman, that he's not going to be part of the meetings between the united states and ukraine, at whatever level. so the fact that vladimir zelensky speaks to mohammed bin salman, the crown prince, what is it? i mean, you worry a little bit about like, you know, coconut, like, okay, you you've told him something and then he's going to pass it on. is that how that's going to work? >> yeah. i think you always have to be worried about a little bit about that game of telephone. i think also zelensky is being smart and understands that this

is a partner and a relationship that the united states has. and so that, you know, he can express his views and concerns. and there is a go between between the united states and the ukrainians, even though, you know, i think it's still important that the united states and ukraine are meeting at the table. and that is a good thing. we do want to see that relationship move forward, that dust up in the oval office. i mean, i think we talked after that. i mean, that was quite astonishing for the world to see. it's now time to chart a new way forward. >> by the way, you called it telephone. i called it coconut. the west coast girl in me. all right. let's i want to go to something that nbc news has reported. in addition to signing this mineral deal to restart and continue with the intelligence sharing, restart the military aid. trump wants ukraine to give up territory that russia has taken in this war and hold a new presidential election. he basically wants vladimir zelensky to step down as president. trump has said that ukraine has no choice but to make a peace deal with russia. what does that mean for ukraine right now, then? and what do you expect to come from these talks? well. >> i think the reality is for the trump administration is that

ukraine absolutely has a choice. it's their sovereign territory that we're talking about. the unfortunate thing here is that donald trump is negotiating basically on behalf of russia, saying that ukraine should hold elections in ukraine. i mean, 20% of the country is occupied by russia. so how do you. all right. >> they have said we're not holding for this reason. >> that's in their constitution. correct. so it's not that zelensky doesn't want to hold elections. they literally can't. how would you even go about doing it? how would you have a fair and free election and just ask vladimir putin about that? i mean, they have not seen one under putin's reign in russia. so i think it's really hard and to for donald trump to be saying, well, you know, ukraine has to give up some of its territory. i mean, russia invaded its sovereign neighbor. so again, we're using russian talking points here. >> i want you to take a listen to some of what congressman seth moulton rather told me yesterday when i asked about the new tariffs that trump imposed on china. and then beijing's response that it could retaliate with a trade war or, quote, here's the quote, any other type

of war. okay, listen to this. >> the chances. >> of war are going up dramatically. with china. and i've seen this report from. many analysts who are looking at the chances that xi jinping basically sees a green light from putin for what p in europed decides to invade taiwan, something that could literally set off world war three, even if the chances of a war over taiwan are, you know, say, 20%, that's a really bad chance of something catastrophic happening to the world, to our troops, to our economy. >> do you agree with that? is donald trump poking a hornet's nest? >> i think donald trump is poking a hornet's nest in that he by catering and by allowing us to renege on some of our commitments to our allies and partners. i mean, look at him saying that we're not going to we might not defend nato countries if they don't spend what donald trump thinks they need to spend as part of the

alliance. i think that is giving that is signaling to taiwan, to china that, you know, the united states might not be there for their partners and allies all around the world. and maybe we take advantage of this moment. and, you know, china is continuing to develop militarily and economically. they are the only country in the world right now that could really upend the international rules based order. so i think it is really important that, you know, china is looking to the united states, looking at the rhetoric coming out of this administration and probably making some calculations on its own, which, you know, like congressman seth moulton raised. that is that is something that we should really think about and that, you know, should be a little scary to the system here. >> yeah. for sure. sabrina singh, it's good to have you here. thank you. see you again soon. next. is there a trump revenge factor and is it affecting his approach to justin affecting his approach to justin trudeau and volodymyr zelensky? the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now, i have rinvoq.

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to create sort of a mess for canada, which he's trying to do. president trump did a much more calm, thoughtful conversation with president trump, and that's why this is the result. >> don calloway, susan del percio and david jolly are back with me. so, susan, you first this time, the commerce secretary clearly alluding to justin trudeau there. is that really how u.s. policy works now, whoever caters more to trump gets a better deal. i mean, incomparably more fentanyl comes in the u.s. from mexico than canada. i think last year, 21,000 pounds from mexico, 43 pounds from canada in the entire year. so how much of trump's policy is influenced by who he likes more, or who might appear more subservient to him? >> oh, i. >> think it's. >> clear that it's if you can kiss up to trump enough, you're going to get what you want. and we learned that from president zelensky's oval office visit that he didn't, you know, kiss the ring and just say thank you.

that would have been enough to get everything he wanted from the president. but what's interesting here is trudeau and trump have a long have gone back a while, kind of at each other's throats. it started, i think, at the g7 in 2018 where that communiqué was, trump pulled out of it because justin trudeau said tariffs would be bad for canada. interestingly enough, he also was against trump's suggestion of having russia back into the g-7, the former g8. so they've been at each other for a while. it is just what the bigger problem here is, is with the back and forth. it's not just who's on trump's good side, it's trump doesn't have a plan. i mean, he told elon musk to use a scalpel, not a machete. he should be doing the same thing with tariffs. and as we stand today, when you look at the dates of things that are going to happen with mexico and canada, they can change tomorrow

and everyone knows it. so there will no, there will not be a stabilization of the markets until probably april when we see if he goes forward with all of the tariffs. >> yeah, it is extraordinary. i just am reminded of the conversation i just had with the head of canada's chamber of commerce, and she highlighted the fact that she hopes for a better relationship with a new leader, a new prime minister. i mean, the fact that he even has to come into play is extraordinary when you're talking about diplomacy and business between countries. but, don, as we think about the commerce secretary and what he said, he said a fentanyl from canada ends, the tariffs will come off. canada says we have ramped up security. then you have ukraine, with trump now saying that assigned minerals deal isn't enough to restart military aid and intelligence sharing. why does he keep moving the goalposts? does he think it gives him an advantage? and if so, what is that advantage? >> i don't think it gives him an advantage. i don't know if he

believes it gives him an advantage. one thing i do know is that trump has mastered media, and we've seen that played out over the last ten years of the trump experiment. and what that means for his sake is that he can say one thing to one side and another side to another thing to another side on the same day. and he understands that people won't put it together because the american attention is so fractured. and so i think that very much plays to his advantage when it comes to. i also have come to the conclusion that i think that he and some of his friends are profiting off of the uncertainty they enjoy having caused the chaos. if you remember, in the first term, as we were having these discussions a lot around muslims and immigration, we would get to the resolution that the cruelty is the point. well, this is a business driven administration. they're not focusing on the wedge culture issues. they are hyper driving a 1% rate of the economy. and i think for some folks, i have to reach the conclusion with conversations i'm having that the uncertainty is the point, and putting very few people in a position to profit dramatically off of that uncertainty. that's

the best way i can describe a lot of what we're seeing right now. >> david, you're welcome to jump here and give me your take on that. and also this question, do you think there will be an impact with trudeau leaving office soon and a new canadian leader negotiating with trump? >> well, i think the impact is that resentment among canadians and canadian politics towards donald trump is growing at a very rapid pace. he's not only personally offended them, but. >> he's also. >> disrupting their economy. >> and. >> injecting instability into it. i my biggest concern, alex, what i'm watching, i don't know that this is happening, but i'm suspicious that there's something a lot more insidious here. donald trump, since he got here, has basically waged war on our allies, either by breaking security agreements or breaking economic agreements, or sending jd vance to insult all of europe and his dress down in munich. and yet he is currying favor and cozying up to russia, saudi arabia, ultimately china as well. it would not surprise me, alex, if the result of this is europe has to take a stronger

posture against the us, which is also probably what donald trump wants. and by the end of his term, we could see a complete realignment of the world order. we could see an axis of russia, china and the united states. and the free west is now europe, canada, south america, etc. this is where this is going. and he and donald trump has not given us any reason to think otherwise. >> just letting that sink in for a second, because that's a pretty stunning statement. and i, i don't know that you're wrong, david. frankly, your reaction to that. don. >> i mean, he's not wrong and it doesn't sound crazy. and it sounded lunacy. look, i grew up in a world of ivan drago versus rocky balboa. if there was, objectively, mike eruzione and the miracle on ice, if there was objectively one villain, it was russia. that is no longer the case. and it was very clear from that meeting with zelensky, if it wasn't clear in the ten years before that the two guys in charge were not in that room.

and as putin and musk and to move from our childhood and, you know, or even, you know, a previous generation that was thinking about, you know, drills of ducking themselves from the climbing under desks in schools, you know, what i'm saying to, to duck from nuclear fallout from russia to today, where we're talking about a fundamental, fundamental radical realignment. it's unbelievable. but a lot of it is driven by unchecked hyper capitalism. and eventually you find where the powers that align over the dollar, not over national and multinational, good for greatest and normal amount of people. >> susan, you want to weigh in on this? i mean, i'm just thinking about what don said. but then back to david. i mean, it's very sobering what he's saying, he thinks is being fomented here. >> i mean, it is. and we live in a world right now with such unsteady leadership from the president of the united states, anything can happen. i actually see maybe a little different. i don't see china getting into that world alignment with the us and russia. i think donald trump

thinks he could take russia. i think he thinks he can become dominant over it in time. that's the way his mind works. he thinks about trying to be nice to someone and then and then going after them. so i see him wanting to do that more and abandoning his relationship with our traditional allies. in order to get there. >> you have given me a lot to think about, and i think our viewers as well, but you always do. glad to have you. see you next weekend, guys. thank you. what we just learned from investigators about those wildfires on long island. the remarkable new twist next. >> i feel like new sunglasses. like a brand new pair of jean. brand new. >> learn more about celebrity cruises latest. >> offers. >> muddy paws. >> dirty shoes and endless cleaning your floors. never stay clean. meet muddy matt, the

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save even more at our parking lot sale going on now. >> breaking news with a new twist on those brush fires in new york. arson investigators are now looking into those massive blazes, some of which are smoldering now for a second day. nbc's maya egeland is on the ground for us in westhampton beach, long island. so, maya, first of all, how much of the fires have been extinguished? and then how are firefighters doing and doing, and what's the latest in this investigation? >> yeah, alex. >> so we know. >> that there are no more visible flames. >> officials are telling us all of the visible flames are extinguished 100%. but there's still a lot of hotspots around the ground. and so all day we've been kind of seeing crews in and out of the forest here in westhampton beach. and they've been working to put out some of these hotspots. they say that the entire fire is only 22%

contained. tens of thousands of trees have been damaged like the ones you see behind me. we also know that two firefighters were hospitalized for minor burns. they've since been released, and this entire fire took up over 600 acres of land, officials told us today at a press conference. we still don't know how or why this fire happened, but take a listen to a local official who is working on this investigation to try and get some more answers. >> we have. >> 25 detectives that are working on trying to determine the origin of the fire. we have drones up assessing the. >> area and again, trying to figure out. >> you know, where. >> this fire started. we also have our arson detectors going up in the helicopters, also trying to figure out how this all started. we're interviewing all 911 callers. and we're we're going to get to the bottom of what happened. at this time. it's too early to tell whether or not this fire was started

naturally, or there's some nefarious origin. >> and so, alex, we actually know that the wind is playing kind of like a pro and con here. the pro is it's making the air quality fine. there's actually no threat to the public. the con is that it is still increasing the risk of potential fires to continue spreading here. so we'll be keeping an eye on it. alex. >> i appreciate that these pictures are so dramatic. okay. we're glad. at least it's at the smoldering stage. maya. thank you. see what happens when an angry shopper lets loose at a car dealership. you know, the car dealership. you know, the word crash comes patients who have sensitive teeth but also want whiter teeth they have to make a choice one versus the other. sensodyne clinical white provides two shades whiter teeth as well as providing 24/7 sensitivity protection. patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf.

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