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hill. >> mounting questions over the future of tiktok in the u.s. >> reporting from. >> philadelphia. >> el paso. >> and the. >> palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. now, today's other top stories global calls for peace in syria today, after the deadliest weekend since the fall of assad. more than 1000 people have been killed in clashes between forces and supporters of the country's new government. let's take a look at the damage from severe weather in texas. one person died when strong winds destroyed buildings, toppled cars, among other damage. hail, nearly the size of quarters fell in some places. and a wild scene in california when an angry customer rammed his vehicle into a car dealership. witnesses say the man was upset with employees over his car appraisal. at least eight people were injured. that driver is in custody. in our next hour, i'll talk to the author of this article. a trump recession has become a real

possibility. the real risk ahead. good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin with breaking news. a shooting in washington, d.c, just a few blocks from the white house. secret service officials say officers shot an armed man in a confrontation this morning. we are awaiting an update. we're going to bring you more details as they come into us. and we have breaking news from selma, alabama. civil rights activists and demonstrators. they are observing the 60th anniversary of bloody sunday, the violent attack on protesters demanding the right to vote. we've got a live report for you in just a few minutes. on that and new fallout from president donald trump's on again, off again tariffs the president imposed, then paused tariffs last month. and then last week some tariffs took effect. he carved out exemptions and then more pauses. well today white house officials framed it as more of a drug

related initiative than a trade war. >> this is a drug related issue. you've got fentanyl pouring into this country, killing 75,000 americans. >> next month it's a trade war, but now. >> it's. >> a drug war. it was incomprehensible. they're destroying the economy. and they're making it harder and harder for americans to afford things. >> meanwhile, the house gop could bring their stopgap government funding proposal up for a vote as early as tuesday. that bill increases defense spending and veteran health care funding, but it cuts items like international peacekeeping and nih research. new today, secretary of state marco rubio is traveling to saudi arabia for talks with ukrainian counterparts on ending the russia-ukraine war. and new reaction to an nbc news report that trump wants to see more than just a minerals deal and restart aid and intelligence to ukraine based on that. senator lindsey graham pushing back on trump today on the sunday talk

shows. >> i want the russians to know that i don't mind talking with you about how to end this war, but you're going to be held accountable for this war, but you're not helping anybody during these discussions. if you do not provide the weapons necessary for ukraine to defend themselves, you're not helping end the war. if you deny intelligence to ukraine. >> we have several reporters with us to discuss all these new developments. and we're going to begin with nbc's vaughn hillyard at the white house. vaughn, how is the trump administration attempting to ease concerns about how tariffs could impact the economy? >> each of the cabinet officials, alex, over the last days that have spoken on the record about this from howard lutnick, the commerce secretary, who you just played a bite from, to scott benson, the treasury secretary, have acknowledged, like the president of the united states said this week, that there could be some discomfort and some actual ramifications when it comes to the price of goods that americans are going

to have to pay, all because of the tariff economic policies that they have implemented over the course of these last weeks and intend to implement here over the course of the next three weeks, including on april 2nd, when the tariffs, the reciprocal tariffs that they intend to place on countries beyond mexico, canada and china are slated to go into effect. i want to let you listen to kevin hassett, the president's chief economic adviser, discussing what this would ultimately look like and what it would take, particularly when it comes to canada. >> so what's going on with the trade war is that we're going to have reciprocal tariffs in april. what's going on with the drug war is we're trying to make progress. so there is a trade war. >> so there. >> is a trade war. in april there's going to be a reciprocal tariff. and then if they lower their tariffs we'll lower ours. but between now and then the, the, the act that created the tariffs that you're seeing in canada, mexico was 100% about progress in the drug war. and that's the clear meaning of the

executive order that the president signed. and the clear focus of the intel brief. >> that's where there are a lot of questions, not just from democrats, but also from republic as mexican and especially canadian officials, as to exactly what the strategy and what the goal of these tariffs on the us's top two trading partners, mexico and canada, exactly, is just 43 pounds of fentanyl were seized at canadian points of entry last year. that's just 0.2% of the total amount of fentanyl that came into the country overall. and so that is where you heard directly from. kevin hassett suggests that in the case of canada, this is a drug war and the tariffs are a means of trying to get canadian authorities to be more aggressive in the amount of drugs that are coming across the northern border, but exactly what the target goals are are very unclear and unstated, especially under the context that during the first trump administration. alex, right. president trump placed tariffs on mexico and canada on the

premise that the us trade relations were unfair. and we've even heard from president trump suggest that americans are paying undue tariffs, comparatively to the tariffs that canada has placed on american goods. and so that's where you are kind of hearing a disjointed message from these top cabinet officials as to exactly what the end game is, how long these tariffs will exist and what they are seeking from foreign governments as a result of placing these tariffs on goods that are slated to raise the price on a great number of goods that americans are going to be consuming. >> okay. well, you keep asking the questions and report back to us when you have those answers. thank you so much, juan. let's go now to the funding fight on capitol hill. with five days to go before a potential government shutdown. joining me now is nbc news senior national political reporter sahil kapoor. sahil. speaker mike johnson unveiled a new plan yesterday. what are you hearing about it? from lawmakers. >> yeah. >> alex, the reaction on capitol hill has been. >> mostly positive from republicans. mostly negative.

>> from democrats. this 99 page bill released by speaker johnson yesterday would keep the government open through the end of september, mostly on a status quo basis. but there are some changes in here that republicans have wanted. he's eyeing a vote as early as this tuesday in the house of representatives, and he may need to rely solely on republicans to do it, despite the narrow majority. it's not clear he'll get it. but the fact that president trump is whipping votes in favor of this means he certainly has a shot. democrats are not happy with this bill. the minority leader, hakeem jeffries, and his leadership team put out a statement yesterday immediately calling it unacceptable, saying they'll vote no. the democrats top two appropriators, rosa delauro and patty murray, have called it a partizan bill that would empower president trump and elon musk. they have demanded guardrails to ensure that the trump administration would actually spend the money directed by congress and not take these unilateral actions to withhold it. but nevertheless, speaker johnson's strategy here is to pass this through the house this week and throw it in the senate's lap and essentially dare democrats to vote no.

remember, they need 60 votes in the senate to clear a filibuster, and it's not clear they'll get that. it means at least seven democrats. take a listen to senator elissa slotkin of michigan, one of the more moderate democrats. what she said about this bill on meet the press. >> well. >> we. >> just got the bill yesterday, so we're still looking through it, and it has to go through the house. and they have very tight margins in the house. so we'll see if it can get through. but i think the fundamental point, at least as i approach this, is, look, the president has been deciding how to spend the money any way he wants, even when we have a budget that both democrats and republicans voted on. that's a constitutional issue, right? everyone knows congress has the power of the purse. so i just until i see some assurances that whatever we pass next week is going to ensure that the money is spent the way congress intends it, i'm going to i'm going to withhold my vote until i see that. >> bottom line, alex, whatever happens in the house, they need 60 votes in the senate or the

government shuts down about five and a half days from now. >> let me ask you about your latest piece of hill, because it's about the gop budget blueprint and how medicare and medicaid might face cuts. how much money are we talking about here, and how serious is this threat? >> well, it's a very significant move by house republicans simply because they've boxed themselves in to requiring some cuts to one or both of these programs just with the math of their budget. so here's the math. the house republican budget adopted nearly, you know, pretty much on a party line basis by republicans, requires the energy and commerce committee to find $880 billion in cuts. now, that's important because the congressional budget office, which scores this, has said the energy and commerce committee oversees a total of $581 billion in spending. when you exclude medicare and medicaid, that's the entire jurisdiction. so they literally mathematically cannot reach their own target unless they cut medicare or medicaid. now, republicans are very leery about cutting medicare at all. they know the politics of this are very bad with older voters,

but they have set medicaid in their crosshairs for cuts. they have talked about rooting out waste and fraud. they've talked about kicking people who are in this country illegally off of medicaid. but there's no evidence to suggest that they can find the kind of money they're talking about. by doing those things. one of two things has to happen here. either they find significant medicaid cuts that would impact beneficiaries, would impact hospitals, or they change their own budget target. alex. >> okay. it's a helicopter. thank you for that. joining me now we have nbc news national security reporter dan delouche. so dan, first i want to get your thoughts on the new nbc news report, which says that in addition to signing the mineral deal, president trump is asking ukraine to be willing to give up territory to russia and then hold a new presidential election. an official said these concessions would restart aid and intelligence sharing with kyiv. what more can you tell us about this, and what do you expect from these meetings between u.s. and ukrainian officials in saudi arabia this week? >> well, these latest demands are just the latest example,

alex, of the u.s. of president trump putting huge pressure on the country that was invaded by its much larger neighbor, russia. and there isn't the equivalent kind of pressure being placed on russia, which. launched the war in the first place and shows no indication that it's ready to compromise. so in a way, some of these demands are very much russian demands. russia has long said that it basically doesn't regard the government of ukraine as legitimate, even though it is a democratically elected parliament and president. they have put off elections because their constitution bars that during martial law, which was imposed in wartime, which of course happened in britain during world war two. and also zelenskyy remains relatively popular. but these kind of demands on ukraine at the same time as the u.s. has paused military assistance and intelligence assistance. so they are now flying at least with one, you know, fighting with one arm behind their tied behind

their back. and so i think it's going to be a very difficult conversation with the ukrainians in a really difficult position. well, trying to ask, i think, for the u.s. to see their plight right now and to say, listen, we're ready to negotiate. but in the meantime, they're coming under massive attack. there was a huge aerial bombardment on friday, a huge civilian death toll, the largest of the three year war. and russia has stepped up its attacks just in the past several days around the area where ukrainian troops are in russia, in the kursk region. >> yeah. unfortunately, i have a lot of questions i still want to ask on this, but we have other important topics as we head to the middle east now. iran's supreme leader rejected president trump's call to negotiate a new nuclear deal with the u.s, and this week, trump gave tehran an ultimatum come to the table soon, or possibly face u.s. military action. how do you interpret trump's mixed messages to iran? does the administration have leverage to force iran into a deal? >> i think in this case, the

u.s. does have leverage, right, because the u.s. is able to impose a lot of economic pressure on iran. just recently, the administration tightened economic sanctions on iran, and iran's economy is already in trouble anyway because there have been years of sanctions on them. right. but now they're saying they're going to try to really choke off iran's ability to sell its oil. so there is pressure there. and then, of course, iran is in a really bad way right now. israel has decimated its proxy forces, the hezbollah forces in lebanon and hamas and gaza. so iran's kind of military power has really come into question. its missile attacks on israel failed for the most part. so there are a lot of voices in israel who are saying, now is the time to go after iran's nuclear program before they get the bomb. so i think trump is trying to capitalize on the pressure that israel created as well. but we'll see, because he always obviously, as we know, trump often is full of mixed

messages, and iran is not known for being the most flexible when it comes to diplomacy. but i think iran will be anxious to avoid a military attack. so attack. so we should stay tuned for this. there might be backchannel communications that unfold here. >> one more quick question to you. that is a recent article in which you report that the cia has begun firing recently hired officers as part of the administration slashing of the federal workforce after reviewing status of employees that have been hired over the past couple of years. how many could get fired? dan? and what are you hearing from agents about these changes? >> well, you know, this is just the beginning. i think what we saw across the federal government is now moved over to the intelligence community. and it's not just the cia now that's under pressure to save money and to slash its workforce. and so they're starting like they did elsewhere with the most recently hired people. but of course, in the intelligence world, probationary status, right when you're a new hire, can last up

to four years because of the sensitive nature of the work. so it's possible that some pretty experienced people with, with two years or so experience may be let go. and some former intelligence officers have expressed concern about that. we don't know the numbers. they've also gone after people who had temporary assignments for diversity. right. so there were 51 people already fired. just two are working on diversity. >> okay. dan dallas, many thanks. good to see you. it has been said that manners maketh man. but at what point should democrats stop being polite? democrats stop being polite? we're back in ♪ [suspenseful music] trains. [whoosh] ♪ trains that use the power of dell ai and intel. clearing the way, [rumble] [whoosh] so you arrive exactly where you belong. no matter what kind of teeth you gotta brush, oral-b electric cleans better with one simple touch. oral-b's dentist inspired round brush head hugs em, cleans em, and gets in between em,

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there it is. see? told you it was going to all work out. thanks, future me. safer. it does not mean that we drag them. >> in front. >> of congress for four hours. we yell at them. we tell them we're going to give them criminal referrals. the doj is intimidating our mayors and my colleagues across the aisle are producing tv ads to try to pretend that they're making this country safe again. it's total. absolute. they are not making america safer again. and what they are doing is terrorizing immigrant families. >> representative melanie stansbury there with some pretty sharp words during a house oversight committee hearing on sanctuary cities for mayors of major cities questioned for more than six hours. and joining me now, we have shaniqua mcclendon, vice president of political strategy at crooked media, along

with former florida representative and msnbc political analyst carlos curbelo. welcome, guys. shaniqua, what is your reaction to that? should democrats be less polite? was that effective by melanie stansbury there, or is it more important to be united with leadership? >> i think leadership should be looking to some of the rank. >> and file. members about. >> what's working. >> we look. >> back to the to the joint address. >> last week with. >> donald trump and al green. being ejected. you know, there was a lot. >> of talk. >> that leadership did not want democrats. >> to have these public displays. but we. >> heard i mean. i spent too much time online but. online talking to friends. >> what broke. >> through from what democrats did was. >> al green actually calling. >> out the president. >> that he. >> did not. >> have a mandate. >> to decimate medicaid. >> but on top of that, the other. >> thing that broke out were or broke through. were people being upset that democrats were just holding signs in that moment. and so i really think leadership should be paying attention to what's actually breaking

through. and i do think that that that hearing was really interesting for me. the clip you just showed, but also the mayors being really defiant, well, at least three of them being really defiant about what they are doing and that they are keeping their city safe and that these republicans are just trying to make a show because they're not actually doing their job. >> carlos, does congresswoman stansbury have a point terrorizing and migrant and immigrant families rather, with this sweeping ice approach? >> well, alex, i think it's. >> important for. >> there to be an opposition. but the outrage opposition that. >> democrats have. >> implemented against donald trump over the years simply. >> hasn't worked. >> it's one of the reasons why democrats. >> lost the swing voters, the middle of the country in the last election, and why donald trump was able. >> to win the. >> popular vote, because this. >> the sky is falling. >> opposition really. >> has backfired. >> on democrats. it has actually cost them votes. so i. >> do think.

>> it's important for there to be an opposition, but the opposition has to be sober, particularly on an issue like immigration, where the president still. has the country behind him. there are other issues, like the reforms of the government, tariffs where the public isn't behind the president, but on immigration, the public. wants to see stronger immigration enforcement. democratic leadership knows that. and i think that's why they've been a little quieter on this issue. >> so, carlos, there were reports this week of trump cabinet members clashing with elon musk, frequent musk critic. in fact, steve bannon piled on, saying that musk's weighing trump down. the new york times reports on what it calls the battle within maga. the quote pits those, like mr. bannon, who want mr. trump to carry out a more fully populist agenda against ultra wealthy interests, epitomized by mr. musk, who occupy key positions in the president's orbit. is this internal battle? is it already causing problems? >> it is.

>> causing problems. and the reason why president trump, for the first time, imposed. some boundaries on elon musk is because, number one, he sees the polling. he knows that the public isn't behind elon musk. elon musk. >> is not popular. >> i think his last approval numbers were in the high 30s. and then he's also got all these cabinet members who feel like they can't do their jobs, who feel like they aren't actually in charge of their agencies, because elon musk is just running around telling people what to do without even asking for any kind of input. so donald trump is starting to realize that this isn't going to work long term. and that's why elon musk, someone who has had free reign from the very beginning of this administration, is now being told to slow down a little bit. >> shaniqua, is there the sense that trump world doesn't think they need the populist, the og maga supporters? if they have the power of people like elon musk? >> i think they probably thought that in the beginning. but now

you're starting to see that change. donald trump is trying to rein in elon musk a bit. and i think something that is really important for all of us to remember is the one thing trump, donald trump cares about the most is how he's perceived in the media. i don't think he would care as much about what elon musk is doing if it wasn't playing so poorly in districts in the media, and he was being made to look like second fiddle to elon musk. when elon musk was not elected. and so i think we're going to continue to see him rein him in. and i don't know, i thought they would have had, you know, a public breakup sooner than now. but i do think it's coming. and i think that as people continue to be really angry with elon musk, donald trump is going to want to distance himself from him. >> you know, carlos, there are some growing questions about amy gleason, who worked at the us digital service before being named the acting director, rather administrator of doge. but there's very little information about her role or why she was chosen. is it possible she only leads the

department on paper with elon musk calling the shots? i mean, why is it so important that musk not be seen as the head of doge? >> yeah. >> you really can kind of see the administration starting to second guess itself on how much power they gave to elon musk. they kind of want to say now that he's more of an advisor, when in reality, as we know from the readout from that cabinet meeting, he's actually been calling the shots. he's he's been telling all these cabinet secretaries exactly what they need to do. he's been intervening in their agencies without even consulting with them. so you're seeing some backtracking here, and you're seeing that donald trump, who reads polls, who knows that he has been perceived by his base as being against the political class, against the elites in this country. and look, elon musk, i know he's an interesting character, but it doesn't get a

whole lot more elite than the richest man in the world. so this is a problem for the maga brand. this makes things complex. and i think we're starting to see the beginnings of donald trump trying to get back to the simplicity that has been the secret to his success. >> and yet shaniqwa trump, in fact, said during his joint address that musk does lead doge, and it has already been submitted as evidence in court cases against doge. was that a blunder by trump that's going to come back to haunt him? >> i think so the minute i heard him say that, all i thought was, wow, the lawyers who are suing about the constitutionality of what elon musk is doing are going to love that. he literally said that, you know, the cameras scroll over to elon in the crowd and he's, you know, taking in the applause. but it's really clear that he is the person who is making all of the calls about what's happening in the

administration, about all of these cuts that are happening. so i do think this is going to continue to backfire. and again, it's going to be played in the press as elon musk being in control, being the person who is actually president. and i think donald trump, sooner rather than later is going to get tired of that. >> you know, carlos, the gop has the white house, the house, the senate. won't it be easy to blame republicans if the government shuts down 100%? >> and i think we have to watch very closely this vote that's coming up on tuesday, alex, because it could be a turning point, particularly for house republicans. for about a decade, house republicans have struggled to garner the votes from within their own ranks to fund the government to keep the government open. it looks like they have a chance of actually passing a continuing resolution with only republican votes. that would be extraordinary. that is something that has been very rare for the house republican conference over the last decade plus, if they're able to do

that, it really will show that the house republican conference, congressional republicans in this trump, trump, johnson era are united. and that would be a very big difference from what we have seen and from what i experienced as a member of the house republican conference in the past. so this is a big week for congressional republicans. and yes, if they cannot deliver the votes, obviously they will carry the burden because they control the entirety of the government. >> can i ask you what you're hearing about it, carlos? is it going to pass? >> well, what i'm hearing about it is that they're very close. there's only a small number of holdouts. there were a small number of holdouts a couple of weeks ago when they were trying to pass a budget resolution, and they were able to get those people on board at the last minute. remember, they canceled the vote and then immediately called everyone back. i think this is going to be a very similar situation where maybe

they have 3 or 4 people who are threatening to vote no, and at the very end, they're going to decide whether they're going to fall in line or whether they're going to continue doing what house republicans have done for a very long time, which is to block their leadership from being able to act in the congress. >> okay, carlos, it's good to see you guys. as always, thank you much. later this hour, the department and the trump administration that is now using polygraph tests on employees to david takes prevagen for his brain polygraph tests on employees to find people leaking and this is his story. nice to meet ya. my name is david. i've been a pharmacist for 44 years. when i have customers come in, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. for your brain. you want high-performance,

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trumpland with alex wagner. >> breaking news. as hundreds of people have been marching across the edmund pettus bridge in selma, alabama, to mark the 60th anniversary of bloody sunday, let's go now to nbc's george solace. who's there for us? george, what are you hearing from some of today's participants? how meaningful is it for them? >> hey, alex, it's been such a powerful and moving display. so many here gathered. it is windy. it is cold. it has been raining at times. but you still saw in those images hundreds here, making that commemorative march over the edmund pettus bridge. 60 years since bloody sunday. now that was friday, but still on this sunday, you had all those people here gathered. you have a rally that's ongoing right now, and you had events throughout this weekend trying to echo those messages for equality, for freedom, for justice. so many of those same messages and the tone and tenor still holds so much truth today. i spoke with senator angela

alsobrooks from maryland, who made her 1st march on friday here with so many others and just talked about how poignant and how powerful that moment was for her to be here, where doctor king was, where john lewis was, and to make sure that that torch is carried forward amongst this new generation, that those fights and those dialogs continue moving forward. and i have to tell you, just talking to some of the people that were here ahead of the march, i spoke with one gentleman who's in his 80s right now. he remembers being seven years old when he was running from dogs that were released here by individuals that obviously did not want people to have civil rights, did not want them to have voting rights. but i did also speak with so many people that were leading and in charge of the marches here today. i want you to take a listen to what they told me about the impact of this. 60 years later. >> i'm really hoping that 60 years from now, our children and grandchildren are not doing the same thing. my hope is, is that

60 years from now, we can maybe rest a little bit, but we can't rest now, right? so my hope is, is that we continue the work, that we move the clock forward, that we make sure that every voice is heard, that we make sure that we remind everyone that your voice matters. no matter where you are in this country, your voice matters. >> yeah, that's right alex. and again, that's just some of the messaging that that holds so much truth today. they want to keep pushing and they want to make sure that what was fought here is not lost. and again, as you can see behind me here, so many still on the edmund pettus bridge remembering what happened here 60 years ago. alex. >> jorge solis, thank you so much from selma. and we're going to have more coverage from selma, alabama, for you as the city marks that fateful day 60 years ago. politics nation will be live from selma. that begins at 5 p.m. eastern. meantime, new talk and worries of a recession. the author of this piece joins the author of this piece joins me travel can make you smell kinda funky.

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pick a cleaner, and enjoy a spotless house for $19. >> new reaction today from the trump administration as tariff threats, sweeping government cuts and ongoing high costs threaten to cause even more pain for americans. here's commerce secretary howard lutnick pushing back on critics today. >> should americans brace. >> for a recession? >> absolutely not. anybody who bets against donald trump, it's like the same people who thought donald trump wasn't a winner a

year ago. donald trump is a winner. he's going to win for the american people. there's going to be no recession in america. i would never bet on recession. no chance. >> joining me now is washington post economic columnist heather long. good to see you again, heather. so what are you hearing from economists about the probabilities of, say, a 2025 recession? >> yeah. >> it's a great question. this was really the week that sentiment changed. obviously we saw the sell off in the stock market. we've seen a lot of warning signs in the bond market that growth is going to slow. but what really stood out to me is a lot of companies on wall street, even groups like goldman sachs, that have been very bullish on the economy right now, very bullish on the trump economy, suddenly changed their tune this week, alex. and they started sending out notes saying not that a recession is inevitable, but suddenly they were inching up their forecasts. so instead of you know, weeks

ago nobody was even talking about the r-word recession. and now a lot of places are saying there's a 30 to 35% chance that that it could happen. and the main reason is these tariffs, not only are they substantial and large, but it's so confusing to understand why we're doing this or what could potentially end this chaotic mess we're in. >> i'll tell you, i've seen a lot of headlines with that word in it. so this morning we had secretary lutnick, who also said the economy was in a transition period and then promised that grocery prices will start going down next month. is there legitimacy to that claim? i mean, when would a transition period end? >> it's a great question. he called it a transition period. the treasury secretary used the word we're going through a detox period. i mean, these are some pretty alarming terms. and i think what's what's difficult for ceos or for consumers to understand is on the one hand,

the trump administration is saying they're going to lower prices, but of course, they keep increasing the tariffs. and april 2nd, supposedly we're going to not only have tariffs on canada and mexico, but probably on europe, india, other countries. the president keeps mentioning. and as you and i know, alex, over 40% of our fresh fruits and vegetables are imported. certainly a vast number of our car and auto parts are imported. and it's hard to envision that prices are going to go down as long as these tariffs continue to go up. >> yeah. and you write that republicans are hoping to blame any downturn on biden's economy. do you think voters are going to buy that? i mean, how long can they keep pointing backwards before saying, okay, we have to own this. >> i agree with you. i mean, good luck. you can just look at the polls already. it's deteriorating a good bit, particularly on president trump's economic poll and favorability, which was always his strong suit. that has always

been the one issue that he really owned and was much stronger than any democrats on. and to see that slip in the last 2 or 3 weeks has been very pronounced. we just saw one of the biggest drops in consumer confidence in four years. and the main reason is partly the tariffs. also something called job anxiety. this department of government efficiency obviously being very public in these cuts for the federal workforce. but it's not just federal workers, they're just slashing all of these grants. and a lot of people forget these grants fund jobs and these research labs, these cancer research labs, and in universities and across our nation, and a lot of different industries and sectors are really impacted by these haphazard cuts to grants. it's been very telling to even see some republican lawmakers frantically picking up the phone and begging the white house to reinstate some of this funding to their home districts. and so i'm just getting a lot of calls from people who are worried that they might lose their job soon.

and of course, what do you do in that case? the natural reaction is you stop spending because you're very nervous about the next coming months. >> yeah, yeah. and donald trump himself, he is constantly shifting his economic policies like enacting and then walking back the tariffs and then having carve outs and all that. is that shifting, increasing the economic uncertainty 100%. >> and that's i think what really changed in the past week was just ceos and wall street investors. consumers do not understand what's going on in an environment when literally every day this week, the story changed out of the white house. and on top of that, just when you're having people like the commerce secretary and the treasury secretary coming out in the last few days and saying, basically, don't worry, you know, we still got this under control. there are some. once the fentanyl gets handled at the border, the tariffs will come off. but the president totally contradicts that message on friday. he comet

he is very keen to put on more tariffs for imports from around the world. on april 2nd. so i think this april 2nd date is going to be very telling for what is actually going to happen. >> i've got to say, i applaud you, as the washington post economic columnist, keeping it all straight, because there's been a lot of back and forth. we've been calling it whiplash around here all week long. anyway, heather, thank you so much. next, why some workers in the trump administration are the trump administration are facing polygraph -what've you got there, larry? -time machine. you gonna go back and see how the pyramids were built or something? nope. ellen and i want to go on vacation, so i'm going to go back to last week and buy a winning lottery ticket. -can i come? -only room for one. how am i getting home? sittin' on my lap like last time, ronald. fine, but i'm bringing this. [ whirring ] alright. or...you could try one of these savings options. the right money moves aren't as far-fetched as you think. there it is. see?

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for a pro football player. stunning revelations from the department of homeland security as officials have started using polygraph tests on employees to find people accused of leaking information. homeland security secretary kristi noem, addressing the issue earlier today. >> anyone who is leaking. information outside of how something is planned for the safety of those law enforcement officers, needs to be held accountable for that. >> and you're going to continue. >> these polygraphing? >> absolutely. >> employees. >> the authorities that i have under the department of homeland security are broad and extensive, and i plan to use every single one of them to make sure that we're following the law, that we are following the procedures in place to keep people safe, and that we're making sure we're following through. on what president trump has promised. >> nbc news senior national politics reporter jonathan allen uncovered these details, and he

joins us now. john, what started this? i mean, are the leaks as dangerous as noam claims? >> i mean, what started this is, you know, the view that that reporters were being tipped off to where they were going to be be raids by the immigration and customs and to try to get, you know, to try to find undocumented immigrants and deport them from the country. and, you know, i mean, look, they obviously, you know, law enforcement has a lot more a lot more physical strength than reporters who are reporting on it at the same time. you know, one can understand why the department of homeland security would not want a to tip off people who might who might be the target of raids, and b not want reporters to be present for these things. and, you know, perhaps he not have the public present for them. so, you know, sort of understandable that they they don't want the information leaking out. on the other hand,

you know, i mean, it does not appear any classified information is leaked out. i'm not sure that there's a real national security risk here. >> so no warns that she has broad and extensive authority to do this. is she using methods beyond polygraphs to look for leakers? are any employees beyond ice operations being investigated? >> well, my understanding from sources that we've spoken to is that there is certainly a view among department of homeland security employees that it maypo polygraph may end up, you know, being much broader within the department than it has been to this date. but obviously, the focus has been at least early on, those on those ice raids. >> so are these polygraphs effective, john? i mean, the accuracy of polygraphs have been questioned for years. >> i feel like i feel like i might be strapped to something here. alex, as i try to answer your question, i don't know. i

don't have a good answer. i don't know if they're true or not. look, i think i think there's, you know, significant evidence to suggest that the idea that a polygraph is a, you know, an accurate lie detector test is, you know, i mean, it's not clear that they are and they are not admissible in court. and so, you know, but at the same time, just the threat that that people are going to have to undergo that may have a chilling effect on department of homeland security employees wanting to talk to reporters. in fact, you know, i spoke to one the other day who just said that they were going to go dark. >> all right. i'll let you off the hot seat for this line of questioning. however, you do have exclusive reporting about the growing influence of elon musk's starlink in the federal government. several departments already use starlink services, but musk has pitched using it to more federal agencies. are there any security concerns, john, with such widespread usage, is there any idea the kinds of government contracts that would be given for musk to use

relative to signing up with starlink? there. >> yeah, i think it's a couple of interesting things here, alex. number one, obviously elon musk already has contracts with the united states government that predated him being a special government employee. it's a very unusual for somebody who works in the government to sign up more contracts for their company while they are working in government. and in this case, you know, the gsa has been a place that elon musk's doge group has been very intimately linked. so, yeah, i think there's a lot to wonder. the other thing real quick, elon musk has said today that he could turn off ukraine's ability to defend itself based on turning off their starlink access. the idea that somebody in the united states who is a private citizen, could someday do that to the us government is one that i think that there would be a lot of people would have a problem with. >> oh yeah, that's something to ponder over. okay. jonathan allen, thank you much. the unexpected twist this week over president trump's tariffs. that's at the top of our next

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