d scorecards. and with xfinity multiview, never miss a moment. watch up to 4 live events at once. brought to you by comcast business, proud partner of the players. just say “the players championship” into your xfinity voice remote. picky eating with every healthy, tasty bite and the evidence wagging tails. >> all of this can be overwhelming, but it is important to remember there. >> are still. >> checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now and it is really important to pay attention to it, but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try to remember we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just begun.

>> its federal job cuts are. >> not just. >> numbers on. >> a spreadsheet. >> they are. >> real people. >> real families. >> and real consequences. in june, i will lose my. >> job as a father. >> of a three year old. >> this isn't. >> just about my career. >> it's about. >> my child's well-being. right now, without my. >> job, i don't know how i. >> will afford to. >> keep her. >> in preschool. the stress of this situation situation. isn't just financial, it's emotional too. it's the fear of not knowing what comes next. >> or. >> having to make impossible choices. >> between my daughter's education. and basic needs, i. have dedicated my career to education. >> that is 25 years. >> of my life. >> the flooding. >> of the zone we've seen so. far from the trump presidency. >> the staffing cuts. >> the executive. >> orders. >> the pardons, lawsuits. >> it can. feel overwhelming and you can lose. >> sight of.

>> the real human beings. which is why the nearly. >> two dozen. democratic state attorneys. >> general have banded together to. coordinate a strategy to. >> focus our. >> minds and to challenge. >> the trump administration on the legal front. >> and so far, their. >> efforts are working. as politico lays out. >> the attorneys. >> general. >> quote. >> see themselves. >> as the last backstop between. >> the. >> people of this country and the president. their multi-state lawsuits have temporarily stopped. >> the president from. >> revoking birthright citizenship, from. >> freezing federal funding and cutting off money. for medical research. now they're. >> taking that message on the road. four attorneys general. >> held a town hall in phoenix, arizona, last night. they laid out their plans and they. >> heard from everyday americans like the educator. you just heard from. my friend and colleague alex wagner was there. >> she attended last. >> night's event and spoke. with one of the. >> ags on the front lines. >> keith ellison of minnesota. take a listen. >> we haven't. >> lost yet, by the way. >> we filed about. >> seven lawsuits we haven't

lost. yet because. >> what he's doing. >> is illegal. >> this isn't about partizan. >> differences, right? >> this is about litigating the law, what is constitutional. and we've now reached a point in american. politics where it's not like democrats fighting the republican administration. it's the chief law enforcement. officers at the state level who are saying that's just plainly unlawful. >> it's unlawful. >> it's just a completely different world in american politics. >> it sure is. >> it's about legality at this point. >> well. >> we're in a new phase. >> of american history. >> when the. >> chief executive. >> of. >> the. >> country is absolutely unconcerned about the legal implications of his decision. it used to be that. >> the president. >> was. >> like, well, is that legal? >> what are the precedents? say, what are the statutes say? i'm here to execute the laws, not to violate the laws. well, this president doesn't see it that way. the lawless. >> unregulated, just arbitrary. >> way he's acting. and it means that we've got to stand up and oppose it. and i believe we're going to win.

>> last night's. >> town hall was just the first in a series of events. these democratic ags will hold more from that. politico reporting finds that their. organized resistance is constant. they're meeting every day. quote, the country's 23 democratic state attorneys general. >> log on. >> at 4 p.m. eastern for 30. >> minute confidential. >> video chat to coordinate. >> their plans. >> for pushing back against the trump administration. they share updates on the seven cases they have moving through federal courts, and they argue about whether to treat elon musk as a lawful. >> arm of the government. or an. >> uncredentialed interloper to it. they plot where to respond next, leveraging time zone differences to expand the workday. their latest victory. just today, a federal judge sided with them over 20 states and dc. extending a block that prevents the trump administration from freezing federal funding. in his ruling, judge mcconnell said the executive branch was trying to put itself above congress and by doing so, undermines the distinct constitutional roles of each brand of government. it's

where we start the hour with some of our most favorite experts and friends, chief among them miss not. yes, msnbc senior political analyst. this is your new title. congratulations my friend. >> thanks. >> thanks. host of. trumpland podcast, alex wagner is here. also joining us, president of media matters for america, angelo carusone and chief political columnist, host of the impolitic podcast for msnbc. national affairs analyst john heilemann is here. i'm so happy you're here. >> i'm so happy to be here. >> i have the same cough. so if you need to stop. >> and cough saying. >> that or stop and take it, yeah, it's not covid. it's been like, should we explain to our viewers because i get these tweets like it's something wrong with you when you have a little person, you cough from about january. >> to april. they give us love, but. >> they also poison our immune systems. >> i feel fine, i'm not contagious, but i may have a stray cough. >> here or there. okay. this is i think i read about this happening and wanted to make sure we knew what was happening. and you were in the room. tell me about just set the stage for the whole

last night. this is a town hall that's being organized by really, i mean, chris mayes is the attorney general of arizona. this was in phoenix. she was kind oth spear on this. but this is something that all these 23 democratic state attorneys general, it's an effort in. and these town halls are both a chance for the public to kind of come together and talk about what's worryinhe how these cuts, how the trump administration agenda has affected them. but it's also a chance for these attorneys, attorneys general, to hear what is happening and what may actually be unconstitutional. right. it seems, vis a vis these cuts. >> and it seems that each helps the other. >> yes. they were all taking notes on the stage. and i think this material i mean, ag mayes told me this is then going to end up in a potential future lawsuit and you have more. i do have more. i will say, nicole, there are a host of issues brought up, right? the focus was federal funding and spending cuts. the group of people, and this is the state of arizona, where there are a lot of army bases. the group of people that i think were most vocal last

night were veterans. i want to play a clip from a man named tim cox. he's a veteran who works in the labor department and the office of federal contract compliance programs. this is what he had to say about this administration and its treatment of the men and women who have served this country. nearly 6000. veterans have already lost their jobs. >> and been terminated. >> from federal. service at. ann workforce with. less protections. while my time is limited. >> i just wanted to say. >> this this. >> isn't subjective. this is evidence. this is evidence. in less than two months, this administration. >> has proved. >> itself to. >> be the. >> most anti. >> veteran administration. >> ever. >> what's going on is just. >> not just. >> not right on so. >> many levels. he called it the most anti veterans administration in history. >> it is i mean there's six

almost 6000. >> veterans that. are terminated. there's it. was just. reported today that 80,000. va employees. >> are going to be terminated. >> they have. >> the most amount of veterans. >> it shows you. that the. >> billionaires are the ones who. >> matter. >> you know. >> and they're going to step on anybody. to get. >> them what they want. >> so it's unfortunate. but a lot of people are going. >> to suffer. >> i mean, nicole, you will remember when donald trump became the first president to do something like besmirch the legacy of a war hero, john mccain. and i think people thought, oh, maybe that kind of disgusting treatment of someone who has served our country in the most tangible, visceral, self-sacrificing way. maybe that's an anomaly. maybe he will move past that. this is evidence, the treatment of veterans, right, which was once the third rail in american politics. you would never see a republican party targeting veterans, targeting the va, having veterans come to town halls and say, this is the most

anti veteran administration in american history. the statements trump made about john mccain, the statements he's made about people who serve, who were wounded in combat, he as someone who got out of serving this country because of bone spurs, that was not an anomaly. that was an indicator. and you are now seeing the harvest of that, those seeds, the treatment of veterans is not going unnoticed by veterans themselves. there were a lot of them that spoke up last night and they feel the same way. >> what's so interesting? i mean, you conducted those interviews last night. tim kaine was on my show an hour ago, and he described it as a war on veterans. >> yeah. >> this is this is for all the laws of gravity and how i talk about this all the time that have fallen by the wayside, right? that we no longer abide by the one that even trump, i think, seems to act like he knows is still in place, is that we hold our veterans up above everybody else. right. they've done more. they went out and protected our way of life. they deserve the best that we have to offer. what's amazing and what is, to your point, sort of a

feature of trump 2.0 is no pretense that they too are fair game. >> no, not only fair game, but you sense in all of these cuts that there's, as i think it was one of the ads, said raul torres from new mexico, said what he hears from this, this maga doge world is a language that has been stripped of all humanity. there is a punitive aspect to all of this, a targeting of those people that have worked within the bureaucracy, no matter who they are and what they've done with their lives, no matter how much they care about the country and want to protect its citizens, that they, because of that life choice, deserve to be treated unequally, that they deserve to somehow be punished or treated worse than any other employee that you would have in any large corporation. right? it is a targeting of these people that i don't think we have ever seen in our lifetime. it's cruel. >> i mean, and i think the antidote, right, is to humanize them. trump's bet is that, is that what the public will hear is just we're cutting out waste

and fraud from these mass bureaucracies. and they they don't bet on you being out there putting. >> a. face to it. and i will say, i think this is the brilliance of this strategy employed by these ags they're having. these are attorneys general, these aren't politicians holding rallies. they sure feel like political rallies. this is people coming together, giving each other courage to come forward with their stories and making it a matter of public record. and they're not just doing it. and by the way, this is arizona. this ain't washington, dc. they're doing this in minnesota. they're going to do this in colorado. i mean, you remember these health care town halls that republicans held in 2010? this could be the beginning of the real resistance. and it's not playing out at the ballot box. it's going to be playing out in the courts. well. >> and, john heilemann. >> i mean, to the point of sort of the conversations that you and i have been having now for three months, where is the heat? >> the heat. >> isn't falling along. right? right. there's not some, you know, star search like contest for the perfect democratic candidate. the heat is around the voters. and i, you know, i don't know what party any of

those folks are who they voted for. but the heat is around. the indiscriminate suffering that trump has ushered in with these indiscriminate cuts. >> right? yeah. >> nicole, it's the thing that. >> we've been talking about. >> as. >> you say. you know, all along. >> it is it. >> is simply too early for the. >> heat to be around. >> a candidate. >> you know. and you're to your point, alex, about, you know. >> the there's the laws. >> of physics. >> there's also the laws of political. >> meteorology, right? >> it's like there. >> is there are seasons. >> in. >> our. >> politics, you. >> know, and the seasons. >> this is not. >> the season. >> of presidential. campaigning that that. >> season will come. >> ecclesiastes tells us, you know, to everything. >> there. >> is a. >> season. >> that season is starting now. >> and if. >> you go back and. >> think about the analogy that. >> alex just drew. >> to. >> the. health care town halls. >> in 2009. >> and 2010, those were. >> not around a. >> republican candidate either. >> they were. >> around simply. >> people who. and we can.

>> go back and argue. >> about this. >> all day. >> long, but they. >> were. >> people who basically. >> had had were scared because they thought that that the president's health care program. >> was going to. >> not let them. >> choose. >> their own doctors anymore. that was very visceral to people. >> you can. >> say. >> that it was mischaracterized. but that was why people. >> turned out and they came out. >> because they thought something very. >> fundamental to them, particularly around their health. >> and. around their autonomy, was being. >> taken away. >> and what we're. >> seeing the beginnings. >> of now, i think, is exactly. >> the same thing, because. >> it is just. >> as fundamental. >> in these. veterans forums where. >> the veterans are becoming upset. >> it's not just. >> that there are. >> cuts to the va. >> those are those are. >> politically toxic. >> it's not just the fact that there are tons. >> of. >> veterans serving in other agencies, not the va, but. veterans throughout the federal. government who are also being affected and who are. feeling sympathetic towards the va itself. but it's that the va is primarily a health care organization, the va, what what veterans get when they come out of their service is they get

good health care. and when. >> they start. >> to see the funding and the personnel, many of these people are getting fired. are nurses, nurses. >> aides, doctors. tts. those. f obamacare did on the republican side. and you start to take away that, you start to mess with people's sense of their health care and their health security. going forward, you are. >> going to see. >> a reaction. >> i believe. >> that is one element of political physics that has not been repealed as yet. >> angelo, if i if you had a thought bubble over your head as we're talking, i think it would say it's all in the plan. it's all in frederick 2025. they had always planned to make these draconian cuts that were politically toxic, but there is still a second layer of surprise when it actually comes to pass. >> yeah. >> and i mean. >> i have. >> a couple. >> thoughts on. >> this too, because.

>> the thing that i would just remind. >> everyone and maybe. >> it's a bigger surprise for people. >> is that. >> we barely scratched the surface. i mean, just to put this into perspective, all. >> of the things that. >> we're talking about, all the harms so. >> far are. >> the result of 60,000, 62,000 federal. employees that have been terminated. >> they're 3,030%. >> of the federal workforce are veterans. so it's not surprising that they're disproportionately. >> affected in these wave. >> of terminations. >> but it's worth. >> noting that even at the bare. minimum end, project 2025 will fire or terminate about 300,000 federal workers. >> i've gone through it a bunch of times now. >> i think it's probably going to end up somewhere between 550 and 620,000 federal workers when all the dust settles. >> from these terminations. >> so we're basically about 10% of the way. through the terminations of the federal workforce. and then the secondary part of that, and this came up in your discussion earlier with randi, is like when you start to cut. title one funding, for instance, from the department of education, that that accounts,0 teachers that that work in low. >> income areas. >> across the country. so you

have to then layer on those additional people that aren't federal workers, but are directly tied to these contributions and to these to these sort of grants from the federal government. and that's where it ties into the storytelling part of it, because. one of the reasons why these ags are able to be so effective in what they're doing, aside from their commitment to coordination and their stiff spines, is that they started doing their work last summer. >> yeah. >> they started looking at the plan because the project 2025 was so clear, you could start to see where some of the edges or the overlaps are going to be on the most unconstitutional or illegal actions, and then you can organize sort of the law part of it around where you're going to focus your fire first around those really big takes. and then second, and this is where these town halls are really important in two ways. one, the lawsuits are also very fact intensive, and that's where you start to get. and alex was getting to this in her discussion is that you get some insights. you get some of these case studies, you get really good facts, good good examples and indicators that you want to

then bring to the court types of people that are going to be affected by those illegal actions. and those tend to be the real difference makers in some of these significant cases that have to work their way through the system as a whole. and i think, and this is where i put a bow on all of it, is that one of the advantages that you've seen from the preparation that the ag's have done is that they put their heads down. they looked at what was in front of us. they didn't cower in fear. they didn't wait for it to happen before they started to plan. they planned accordingly. and then sort of, you know, implemented that set of actions. that was an important thing. but it's worth noting that even they themselves acknowledge that, that it's a bulwark, it's a backstop against these harms, because in order to go ahead, we need a bigger narrative. and that's where the larger opposition party here has to be the one really driving a vision forward to actually shape the larger public opinion. and hopefully all of the ingredients from these harms will help at least provide the material needed to do that.

>> when we come back. bombshell new reporting in the new york times that has the leaders of canada completely convinced that donald trump is dead serious when he talks about trying to make canada the 51st state. what trump has brought up on calls with the canadian prime minister that makes them believe, at least, that he is not kidding. least, that he is not kidding. that new reporting is next. -what've you got there, larry? -time machine. you gonna go back and see how the pyramids were built or something? nope. ellen and i want to go on vacation, so i'm going to go back to last week and buy a winning lottery ticket. -can i come? -only room for one. how am i getting home? sittin' on my lap like last time, ronald. fine, but i'm bringing this. [ whirring ] alright. or...you could try one of these savings options. the right money moves aren't as far-fetched as you think. there it is. see? told you it was going to all work out. thanks, future me. what position did you play?

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administration's department of justice. >> the administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. president trump's first 100 days watch. >> i'm going to be here five days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half the night reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. >> donald trump's spiteful and petty trade war with canada is being treated as something very different by the nation. it used to be our best friend, our friendliest neighbor to the north. new reporting in the new york times details how deadly seriously canada is taking trump's threats about making canada america's 51st state, not only in his truth social posts or his press gatherings, but in direct conversations with canadians, with canadian government leaders about those calls. the new york times

reports this, quote, president trump laid out a long list of grievances he had with the trade relationship between the two countries, including canada's protected dairy sector, the difficulty american banks face in doing business in canada, and canadian consumption taxes that trump deems unfair because they make american goods more expensive. he also brought up something much more fundamental. he told mr. trudeau that he did not believe that the treaty that demarcates the border between the two countries was valid, and that he wants to revise the boundary. he offered no further explanation and didn't end by saying just kidding. so is trump appears to once again roll back his threat of tariffs on canadian goods because of the economic calamity. it would certainly cause. does cause all of us to wonder are his attacks on canada even about tariffs or something more like canada's status as a sovereign nation? joining me at the table, new york times investigative

reporter, author of lucky loser best title ever. susanne craig is here. not only is she canadian, but she was named to the order of canada for her contributions to journalism. and here at the table, deputy national security advisor to president obama, msnbc contributor ben rhodes. sue craig, what is going on? well. >> i. >> think it's not a trade war. >> because i don't think trade is the end game. i mean, he's using tariffs to extract something. and i think we're going to see, you know, i think a lot of people in canada and i really feel it. do think there's some sort of potential annexation game here or a mineral agreement where he can extract some sort of mineral agreement out of canada. but i don't think that this is just about tariffs and about trade. it's about getting something else. and he's got a hammer. that's the tariffs. and he's going to use it. and i think this is going to play out in a really unsettling and awful way. and it was a canadian i just it's just awful to watch it. and i have to say you know the news here moves from one thing to

another. but to understand this and to truly just feel it, you have to talk to canadians and be there. it is all they are talking about. and it's just been an incredible rallying cry for everybody. everybody i talked to, they're phoning, they're like, what can i do? and they're they're talking about what they can do. they're buying, not just buying canadian. there's everything from small things. americanos and coffee shops are now, you know, named after canada instead. and i talked to a friend of mine who's a who's got a choir out in british columbia, and they've moved any song that refers to america, like walking in memphis. it's incredible to see this country just rally around their sovereignty and around who they are. but the upshot, i mean, they're they're next to a really powerful neighbor that no longer is potentially an ally. and it's just an ugly point to be in. after decades of support that canada has lent the united

states everything through wars through nine over 11, through countless agreements that they have to see this happening is just really shattering. >> what do they think the reason is? >> i haven't talked to one person who thinks this is a trade war. i mean, they think that he's after either an agreement on mineral rights and he's going to try and economically devastate canada through the tariffs and then come in and extract some sort of agreement on mineral rights. or i think a lot of people think this 51st state thing is real, and i don't know what that looks like. if it's all of canada or he tries to get part of it, maybe he wants to go after, you know, a province like the in the west, like alberta where i'm from, where it's very rich in minerals. it's a gateway to alaska, potentially. i don't know what it looks like, but this isn't about fentanyl coming across the border from canada to the united states. >> because the fact is, it goes the other way. that's right. what is it that they think of

the american people right now? >> they're furious. i mean, you see, even it really, really hit a chord with me when i was watching. it all comes down to hockey. but i was i was watching the four nation, the final game. and not only were canadians booing the american anthem, but i think they were booing what was going on. i think this is not about the american people, it's about donald trump. but to see not just that, but even the backlash over somebody like wayne gretzky, an incredible hockey player, largely considered by many people to be one of the greatest athletes to ever come from canada. he was the honorary captain of the canadian team, and he came out on the ice. and the us captain, the honorary captain came out with with his blazer on that matched his team. and canada won that game. and wayne gretzky came out and he was wearing a, you know, a dark blue suit. and there has been so much backlash over wayne gretzky in canada. people have been booing him. and the reason is, is, you know, he he is a friend of donald trump.

he's been at mar a lago. he's been living in the united states for a while, but it's his association with trump. and then to come out on the ice and not wear either your, your, your jersey or your order of canada pin or something to show your loyalty to your country at that point in history has just created this incredible backlash towards this person who's who's really like an icon in canada to many people to see how it's really it's just divided people in that way, but it's unified the country behind, you know, there's a lot of political issues in canada. and you guys have we have them, but it's really unified everybody around this issue in a way that i've never seen in my lifetime. >> i mean, the thing that you can't take in isolation is the assault on the sovereignty of our closest, one of our closest friends and geographically, our most close friend, our closest friend and ally and intelligence partner and national security

ally. a stalwart, our best. i mean, everything and the affinity for traditional enemies like russia, right? >> yeah. >> i mean, look, it goes without saying that one of the comparative advantages. >> that the united states. >> has had as a country. >> throughout our history. is we have. >> this long. >> incredibly peaceful. border with a country that is completely. >> integrated with us. in all these different ways. and i think, nicole, we. have to train ourselves. >> in the second trump term to. >> entertain where this could go. >> and so. >> what i think about is if you study autocrats. they almost always reach a point. >> where it's not enough to. >> dominate your own country. >> it's not enough. >> to humiliate your political enemies at home. >> territorial expansion. >> always becomes. >> a thing. and it just. >> let's take a recent example of a good friend of trump's, vladimir putin. dominated that country, imprisoned his. >> enemies. >> and at a certain point after, you. >> know. >> 15 years. i need a piece of ukraine, i need crimea. and i

think that this is what the game that trump is playing. he's been remarkably consistent since after the election. he didn't talk about this that much before the election. but greenland, canada, panama. he has talked about that constantly since november. and so i think we have to take that both seriously and literally. >> when we come back, donald trump and elon musks cuts are now coming for those who have done the most for our country, america's veterans. we'll have america's veterans. we'll have more on that story. (man) got one more antoine. (vo) with usps ground advantage, it's like you're with us every step of the way. ♪ (man) cooool. ♪ (man) right on time! (vo) stay in the know. from your dock... to their door. stubborn fat

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president. >> was asleep while musk was. >> at the wheel. >> do you know what happens to a. >> service member when. >> they fall asleep? when they're on duty? veterans don't trust him. he's not one of us. >> so that was eric rodriguez. he's a veteran of the war in iraq. he was reacting to the news that the trump administration is cutting thousands of jobs from the department of veterans affairs on that. the ap reports this, quote, the department of veterans affairs is planning a reorganization that includes cutting more than 80,000 jobs, while 80,000 jobs from the agency that provides health care for retired military members. the va's chief of staff told top level officials that the agency tuesday that it had an objective to cut enough employees to return to 2019 staffing levels of just under 400,000. that would require terminating tens of thousands of employees. after the va had expanded during the biden administration, as well as to cover veterans impacted by

burn pits. for some veterans, that means not just worrying about what this means for their health care and their family's health care. they could also lose their jobs entirely. more than 25% of the va's staff and workforce is made up of veterans. paul rieckhoff is here. also joining us, msnbc political analyst tim miller, the host of the bulwark podcast. >> paul. >> so i've. >> warned that they're going to come for the strongest. and biggest places first. and they went to the pentagon first. and i. >> have tried to warn people they're coming for the va next. >> it is a. place that. >> has a large. federal budget. it has hundreds of thousands of employees. it's culturally very important. it's symbolically very important. >> and this. >> is right on strategy. i warn folks that musk is going to come for the va. >> and now his. >> flamethrower of destruction is firmly focused on the va. they see. >> how big it is. they see how valuable it is. they see how important. >> it is culturally. >> and they. >> are firing 80,000 people as a start. there's still a lot.

>> more way. >> to go. >> and 25% of. >> va employees are. >> veterans themselves. but one. >> third of all government employees are veterans, right. >> so i think. that they. are they are coming. >> at us very hard. >> and i think in some levels there's a silver lining here because they've misjudged this, because the purge patriotic people, i think, are going to become the foundation and the core of the opposition, whether it's somebody like cq brown, it's the fired. >> fbi workers. >> or it's the now thousands, probably tens of thousands of veterans they are going to organize. they already are. they're protesting at va facilities, they're protesting at tesla dealerships. and anybody who crosses veterans politically in american history usually pays a price. so this may be the leaders we're looking for. are people like like like that guy rodriguez and others who are going to rise up to this moment and pierce through the crap. >> i want to believe that. i'll grab on to that. it'll it'll it'll get me through the next hour and a half. but i want to understand why veterans believe trump is interested in

dismantling an agency that is on the other end of a desperate call or a health crisis. and in a lot of parts of this country, frankly, a lot of red states in this country, they're hours away as it is. why weaken that fragile lifeline? >> because i think it's part of the larger strategy, which is to take down the government to its studs. and for decades, the koch brothers and others had a grand vision of ripping down the va and privatizing it. pete hegseth was the leader of concerned veterans of america, which for years advocated for ripping down the va and privatizing it and sending it out into the private market. and i think that this has always been a prime target for them, regardless of whether or not veterans are there. and i think the insight here is they don't care about veterans, they don't care about anyone, they care about an ideological agenda and seizing the levers of power. and what i would tell folks is if they treat veterans like this, if they treat retired generals like this, how do you think they're going to treat everyone else? how do you think they're going to treat you? we are just first, but this is a

line. they're going to work their way down and started with dod, and now they're at va. >> tim, it's almost boring to frame a question this way, but i'm going to do it anyway. another thing that people thought was sacred is being annihilated again, not in back rooms, not in leaks to print reporters, but on tv. here's alina habba. well, as you know, we. >> care about veterans tremendously. i mean, that's something. >> the president has. always cared about. anybody in blue. >> anybody that serves this country. >> but at the same time, we have taxpayer dollars. we have a fiscal. >> responsibility to use taxpayer. dollars to pay people. >> that actually work. that doesn't mean that we forget our veterans by any means. >> we are going to. >> care for. >> them in. >> the right way, but perhaps they're. >> not fit to have. >> a job. >> at this moment or not willing to come to work. >> veterans are, quote, not fit to have a job at this moment or not willing to come to work. and quote. that's them in their own words on veterans.

>> yeah. >> boy. that's i. >> think. >> that that's probably a video that will come back to haunt her if even if not, it is just it is cruel and dismissive. >> and nonsensical. >> i mean. >> like. >> they're just a couple of practical points i think are worth making one. at the beginning of the clip, she talks about tax dollars and like being a good steward of tax dollars. and so i think that that's being two former republicans. i can speak to this. i still really care about that. obviously there are democrats that care about that too. i still think the government is too big. like this is a farce, right? like if you actually cared about balancing the budget, if you actually cared about government waste, like this is not the way you would go about it. indiscriminately firing people while planning to pass a massive budget, budget busting tax cut through the congress like that is their plan. they've put forth a budget already, even in the best spin that they give. you know where they have maga economists cooking the books. even those people say it's going to increase the deficit by a trillion like that. and the

reality is it's going to be like 5 trillion. so they're not trying to be fiscal stewards. they're not trying to balance the budget. this is, as paul said, an effort to tear the government down to its studs, to punish people, to go after foes, and to reward political allies that they want to replenish the smaller government with. so like that is that is what they're doing. also, as a practical level, it's just so gross what she says there about people aren't able to come into work or not willing to come into work to do the job. like it's just like it's so stupid. they don't even talk to regular people that are working in the government. like, i was talking to somebody, you know, who said that their friend is a veteran and has ptsd. i think it was actually ruben gallego that was telling me this on the on the podcast, and he said that he was talking to somebody that, you know, has issues. having been a veteran, has medical issues. they live like 50 miles from the office. and so they now have this new rule where you have to drive into the office. so, you know, you're in the car in traffic an

hour both ways. you get there. they don't have enough desks for you because they haven't actually done the work to do this streamlining thing. right. so then you go into the office and you're like standing around in the break room just because elon musk said, you know, some billionaire south african immigrant says you have to be there. when you serve the country, you're doing your job. you're doing it well from home. right? like, again, it's not as if they're like, okay, we've done a review. some of you aren't doing enough work from home. you need to come back into the office. it's none of that. it's just indiscriminate. it is cruel. and they're doing it because they want to regain as gain as much power in the gain as much power in the federal bureaucracy as they can. baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance. baby: liberty! biberty: hey kid, it's pronounced "biberty." baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: biberty! baby: liberty! biberty: bi-be-rty! baby: biberty!

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from the inside, people saying elon musk and his team will, quote, make mistakes as they take their chainsaws to what has always been. i know we keep saying this, but this one really was a third rail of american politics and life. what it could mean for the tens of millions of americans who benefit from and rely on social security. deadline. white house continues deadline. white house continues after a quick break. don't go —hi! —hi! ♪♪ chocolate fundraiser. ♪♪ with the chase mobile app, things move a little more smoothly. ♪♪ deposit checks easily and send money quickly. [coins clinking] ♪♪ that's convenience from chase. make more of what's yours. think.

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she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free listening to rachel maddow chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> now! i don't know if it's their plan to crater it, or if they're just so ignorant of how stressed it is that they don't realize they could interrupt benefits. and let's keep in mind these are lifelines for 72.5 million americans or and half of all seniors living alone depend entirely on social security. so i do believe this will probably be the first beloved program by americans that these doughboys

break. >> former social security administration commissioner martin o'malley sounding the alarm with my colleague rachel maddow about the danger elon musk and donald trump's cuts pose to social security and the senior citizens who depend on it. it's a concern that was echoed earlier this week by trump's own acting social security administration head. the washington post reports this quote in a meeting tuesday, acting ssa commissioner leland dudek referred to the tech billionaires cost cutting team as, quote, outsiders who are unfamiliar with the nuances of ssa programs. that's according to a meeting participants detailed notes that were obtained by the washington post. quote d.o.j. people are learning and they will make mistakes, but we have to let them see what is going on at ssa, dudek told the group, according to the notes. quote, i am relying on longtime career people to inform my work, but i am receiving decisions that are made without my input. i have to effectuate those

decisions. things are currently operating in a way i have never seen before in government. comforting stuff right? dudek himself has slashed jobs at the agency, which has led to strained staff and delays in processing claims already. washington post reports this, quote employees at a field office in indiana have been forced to pick up calls for their offices, according to one employee, and they are fielding phone inquiries for an area covering two thirds of the state. the phone quote never stops ringing now, the employee said. phone backups have prevented the staff from processing retirement claims. quote, morale is in the toilet, the employee said. we all know what doge wants to do, which is just break us so they can privatize us. end quote. joining our conversation, federal reporter for the washington post, lisa ryan, whose byline on that great piece of reporting from the post, tell us more. hi, nicole. >> well, first. >> thing to say. >> is that i.

>> think a. >> lot of people did not. expect that. >> elon musk's. team would be so aggressive. >> at the. social security administration. >> but it turns out that. >> the agency. >> is really. >> one of their. >> main targets. >> there are about. >> a dozen. >> doge people. >> you know. >> there. >> and you know. >> this. >> whole situation. >> started in. >> a. very odd way. >> because basically. a mid-level. >> data analyst. >> was feeding. information secretly to the. >> doge team. about two weeks ago. >> he was elevated to. >> acting commissioner because trump's nominee. >> hasn't had. >> a hearing yet and. >> isn't. >> there yet. >> and so. >> you know, he. >> basically basically kicked out a career. >> person who was who was in. >> the acting role. >> so this. >> guy admits. >> you know. >> to a group of. >> disability advocates. >> who had a meeting. >> with him this. >> week that. >> he's not running. >> the show. >> you know, the doge. people are. >> and so.

>> that in itself. >> is highly. >> unusual. >> because i think the trump. >> administration wants. >> it to appear, you know, that doge. >> is. >> just on the sidelines. but here. >> that's not happening. >> so i think. >> we have two things going on. >> and martin. o'malley alluded. to some of this. >> one is that, you know, they're. making big, big cuts. >> they want. >> to cut 7000. >> employees from. a workforce. >> of 57,000. >> so that's a little over 12%. this new guy has only been in, you know, the acting role for literally two weeks. he's announced. >> to all. >> kinds of. >> office consolidations. >> they've offered early retirements. >> they're offered buyouts to staff, even field office staff. and so those are cuts are going to. >> be considerable because. social security, you know, has. >> been had a. >> really level budget for many, many years. and each. >> commissioner who comes. >> in. >> and tries to get more. >> money and fails. >> and they've. >> really struggled with.

customer service. >> and. >> you know, the wait to talk to someone on the phone now, you know, we're hearing. >> is. >> is it. >> can be one hour. >> it can be two hours. >> i got. an email. from someone. >> who. >> said she waited. >> three hours to get. >> someone on the. >> on the call. >> and then. >> last thing. >> is just what. >> access doge. wants to. >> the data bases. >> that that the agency has. you know, it's a huge. payer obviously. >> of retirement. >> benefits and disability benefits. >> and there are, you know, an. >> incredible amount. >> of. >> personal information. >> in these databases, and it's. >> just not clear. >> what they want to do. >> with it. what do your sources worry they could do with it? even if they don't know what they want to do with it. so leland dudek, who is. >> the acting commissioner. >> has actually been clear about one thing. >> which. is he has told. >> the staff. >> that it's really time for. >> social security to. >> start privatizing some functions.

>> now. he's described. >> those as. >> non-mission critical functions. >> meaning back office. >> you know. >> operations. >> tele service operations. >> you know. >> people who who are on the. phones at answering questions. he's saying, let's outsource them. but i think the worry, of. >> course, is. >> that, you know, benefits will. >> be privatized. >> and the administration. >> of those. >> benefits will. >> be that's. >> a concern. >> there's no. >> evidence that. this is. >> going to happen. and in fact, president trump has said many. >> many times. >> that we're not going. >> after social security. >> so. >> you know. >> i know. >> people are very. >> worried when. >> they see stories like this. but. >> you know, there is no. >> evidence that the administration. >> is. >> going to cut benefits. >> however. >> you've got. >> elon musk. >> actively going on. going on. >> x. >> his his. >> social media. >> platform. >> talking with conservative. >> host joe rogan and basically. >> calling social.

>> security a ponzi scheme. and so you wonder, okay, what. >> is what. >> is his end game? >> he's also talked a lot about fraud. >> and, you know. >> exaggerating fraud. >> there is fraud, but. >> it's not. >> on the level that they're talking about. >> thank you so much for watching deadline white house weekend. be sure to join us weekdays at 4 p.m. eastern for weekdays at 4 p.m. eastern for deadline white house on msnbc. some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. - we won. - [cheering] like you know to check that it's not going into overtime by checking allstate first. before you storm the court. so check allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. >> sling this. >> critical time calls for the critical news coverage that sling provides. >> okay. >> okay. >> see you tomorrow. when our numbers guy, frank, goes on vacation the deals on the most affordable german-engineered car brand in america

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