producer, alina kim, who's leaving us for an exciting new opportunity with the msnbc digital team. congrats, alina. thank you very much. >> oh. >> thank you, but she's not going far. oh, no, she'll still. >> be around. >> me that easy. >> all right. thank you, elena, and thank you for watching. she she totally didn't want to do that. but i made her do it, and i'm glad i did. i'll be back next saturday and sunday at 6 p.m. eastern. follow us on instagram, tiktok and threads using the handle at weekend capehart and blue sky using at capehart, dot, msnbc.com and catch clips of the show on youtube. of course, you can also listen to every episode as a podcast for free. just scan the qr code on your screen, but don't go anywhere. eamon is next. >> good evening. >> tonight on am and gop lawmakers are dodging angry constituents. history shows that is a bad move and democrats are seizing the moment. plus, the president has a new stop on his

retribution tour. his target dates back to drama from 2016. and if you're an official who wants federal money flowing back home, there's something you got to do for the president. we'll tell you about that and much more. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's do it. all right. let's get real tonight. republicans have everything they could ever want. they have the white house congress. and yes, they even have the supreme court. so why are they running away from the american voters, the very people who gave them all of that power? well, over the last month, republicans have been bombarded with angry voters at town halls in response to trump's policies, including the thousands of jobs that have been cut by elon musk's doge. now, publicly, republicans are dismissing these angry voters as democratic plants or paid operatives. here's speaker mike johnson. >> the problem is they're being ambushed right now by what are

some, in many cases, paid protesters. you've got george soros funded groups. they're very well organized. they fill all the seats. and so the actual constituents of these republican members can't actually make it into the arenas. >> now, president trump has also joined that chorus, baselessly claiming on his knockoff social media site that demonstrators are paid troublemakers. of course, there has been no evidence to support this claim as of yet. and privately, however, republicans are freaking out that say mike johnson, who dismissed these protesters, has been encouraging republican lawmakers to actually skip town and skip town halls that are populated with angry voters. gop congressman richard hudson, who chairs the nrdc, went further, telling republicans to stop having in-person town halls altogether. hudson grimly compared this current situation to 2017, when republicans were confronted by angry voters at town halls over their attempts to repeal and replace the widely popular affordable care act. that

comparison should have republicans panicked that next year. in 2018, democrats campaigned on protecting the affordable care act and, believe it or not, actually won the house in what became the biggest midterm election turnout in more than a century. ironically, republicans now find themselves in the same position as democrats were back in 2009. back then, democrats were the ones facing angry constituents at town halls due to backlash over obamacare. here's how the obama administration responded to those town hall protests at the time. and ask yourself if this sounds familiar. >> is it. >> your contention. >> that the white house contention. >> that the. >> anger that some members. >> of congress are experiencing. >> at town. >> hall meetings, especially. >> over health care reform. >> is manufactured? >> is that i think. >> some of it. >> is, yes. they have bragged about. >> about manufacturing. >> to some degree. >> that anger. >> now, to quote michael scott from the office, how the tables have turned. republicans won the election in part by appealing to working class voters that felt

abandoned by the democratic party. those same republicans are now running from the very working class voters they promised to protect. democrats, meanwhile, are smelling blood in the water and are taking advantage. vermont senator bernie sanders has been leading that charge, holding what he calls a fight oligarchy tour across the country. sanders has been able to do something no one else has. he's been able to mobilize people in the dead middle of winter in both remote areas and packed arenas, railing against trump and musk's corruption. and finally, democrats are following sanders lead. here's what congressman robert garcia of california said just last night on this program. >> we hold town halls to hear back from constituents. >> so myself. >> and a. >> couple others in congress have. >> essentially decided we're going to. >> host. >> these town halls. >> ourselves in. >> republican districts. >> my next guest is actually one of those democrats reaching out beyond their own districts to speak to the very voters. republicans are trying to run

away from. look at the turnout last night in the small town of belmont, wisconsin. that is where congressman mark pocan hosted a town hall with voters. and despite the town only having just over 1000 residents, hundreds turned out, some of them waiting outside, others watching through windows to hear his remarks. he did formally invite republican congressman van orden, whose district actually borders the town of belmont. i'm sure you know what he did. he declined the invitation. democratic congressman mark pocan of wisconsin joins me now. congressman, it's great to see you. thanks for coming back on the show. let's start with this packed town hall that you had last night. what did you hear from the voters? tell us a little bit about that event. >> well, thanks for having me, eamon. >> i also was with bernie. >> in. >> kenosha in. >> the. >> first congressional district on friday night. >> and then. >> i. >> was at the very edge of my district. >> yesterday morning, and we invited derrick van orden, who represents wisconsin's third congressional district. he was a no show like he's pretty. >> much been. >> since he's.

>> been in congress. >> but people are. >> they're very. >> concerned about cuts. >> to. >> medicaid in particular. they're worried. >> about cuts. >> that are going. >> to happen through the supplemental nutrition. >> assistance program. they're worried about what could. >> happen if you take away subsidies. >> on. >> the affordable. >> care act. they're worried. >> many of. >> these people are. >> in very rural part of wisconsin about. >> farm grants. >> and the lack of food. >> going to usaid. that comes from places like my. >> district, and they just want to be heard. so i bet you a third of the crowd. >> came from derrick van horn's district. some people drove two. >> hours from la crosse. >> just to come and be heard. and you shouldn't have to drive two hours to be. >> heard by your member. >> of congress. they should just get out from whatever rock they're hiding under and talk to their constituents. >> so just to set the record straight, how many of those people do you think were paid? paid protesters that were there last night. do you have any evidence that anyone there was incentivized to be there, other than for simply being a constituent who cares about what is happening to their country and their state? >> yeah. i did not see. >> any limousines.

>> with george. soros name. on them dropping people off. >> we filled. >> the. streets with people and it was interesting. they came from la. crosse and potosi and tomah and platteville, all parts, by the way. not of my district, but of derek van. >> norden's, plus. >> people from that. >> area in my district, the. >> western part of. >> my district. >> again, a lot of people who are, you know, very much based in agricultural economy, this is going to hurt them a lot. at the state of the union, i brought a farmer who's. >> lost. >> two of his grants. even though donald trump has said no farmers lost grants. he's living proof that donald trump is a liar. and he also is on medicaid, his. >> family, just to. >> get by because farming, especially small farms, is not all that lucrative, but you're helping feed your neighbors. so people were just, you know, rightfully so, very concerned. and they just want to make sure that we're doing more. i think that was one of the strongest messages. they want democrats to do exactly what we're doing right now, and i know some other members are doing is getting into their districts and make them uncomfortable because they want to be heard and their members won't listen to them. >> as you mentioned, you spoke as well with bernie sanders at

that fight oligarchy rally in kenosha, wisconsin on friday. just tell me about i mean, do you see this as a beginning of a movement? what is it about what you have been able to do, senator sanders have been able to do that is galvanizing people or connecting with people, reaching people. how do you explain that? why is that happening with you, but not with other members of your caucus and democrats? >> so, you know, there's a bumper sticker i had printed once for my campaign. that said, if the people lead, eventually the leaders will follow. the people are leading now. it's our job to start following and doing what we need to do to help have some accountability on these republican members. we're getting record calls and emails in our office. i hit my all day record. i hit my week record, and every member i talked to is having the same thing happen. so we simply have to rise to that occasion. i think the best way to do this is you go and make those republicans uncomfortable. if what they're doing is so good, why wouldn't they want to go on the rooftop and scream about it? right. instead, they're hiding in a hole that

alone tells you everything that they don't want to talk to their constituents. so i'm going to make it that they're uneasy. if they're going to cut medicaid from one out of three kids in wisconsin, who gets their health care from that? 55% of seniors who are in nursing homes, like my mom was at the end of her life on medicaid, 45% of adults with disabilities living independently just in wisconsin. those numbers, those are the people impacted, 1.3 million people. and if you're a member of congress, you better listen to your constituents because they can either see if you're continuing to be elected or if you're fired, and they can do that in the election. >> let me ask you about your counterpart on the other side of that border there, derrick van orden, the republican congressman whose district neighbors belmont, you said he was invited last night to the event. he declined. but i do want to play for you what he said on a podcast about these town hall protesters. take a listen. >> people associated. >> with the. >> communist movement. >> and the national. >> socialism movement. >> used to get their. >> way politically is they would

do stuff like. >> this. >> and they were called agitators. >> he is basically calling constituents agitators, but then associating them for those who care and are speaking up and protesting and letting their voice be heard in these town halls. he's basically associating them with the communist party. >> yeah, i'll tell you, when someone comes up to you crying because their child has a disability and they can only get by because they have medicaid. that is such an arrogant, ignorant and word. i can't say on your program comment from a member of congress to say about their own constituents. i mean, it's just so utterly ridiculous, but too many members of congress think they're better than their constituents. clearly, that kind of response comes from someone who thinks he's just better than the people. who ultimately, he's supposed to represent. >> let's switch gears for a moment and talk about what is actually happening to the federal government. republicans can try to avoid voters all they want, but these cuts that we're

seeing from trump and doge and musk, they are having devastating impact on workers. nbc news has spoken with 20 federal employees across several agencies, many of whom are veterans, saying they've been dealing with suicidal ideations, rapid weight loss, prolonged lack of sleep, panic attacks, and visiting the emergency room after mental breakdowns. and sadly, this was pretty predictable. i mean, when people lose their livelihoods and their lives, more or less, it's unnecessary. but we are seeing people being destroyed in real time. >> these are the real life ramifications of what donald trump and elon musk are doing. when i went to a town hall in chippewa falls, wisconsin, that was in, again, derek van horn's district, and he didn't show up and he was invited. but i went and at the very end of 90 minutes of listening to about 75 farmers who all had stories like emmett fisher, the farmer that i brought to the state of the union about funds that were frozen and problems over medicare and other grants that were frozen at the very end.

they told about someone who works for one of the agencies that works with farmers in that part of the state, and that they were one of the casualties of elon musk's firing. and when that person went home that night, they took their life. that's the real life ramifications. and for derrick van orden or for any republican to ignore their constituents at a time. this is the real life effects of what's happening. you know, you don't deserve to be in office, and that's why people have to be heard loud. this is a vote that's likely going to happen in april. the president said he wanted to do it in the first 100 days. we've got like 30 to 45 days to do our best to stop these cuts, and it's going to take everyone contacting their members of congress to do so. >> and let me finally get your thoughts on the budget here and what democrats can do. obviously, that government shutdown, the looming government shutdown is kind of barreling ahead. what is the right thing to do? what should democrats be doing in a moment like this? and

how do you message around the decisions that you make? >> yeah, i mean, so it looks like from what i'm understanding, the republicans will pass what's called a year long cr continuing resolution that will fund the government through september 30th. but by doing that, one of the secrets that i'm understanding of, of this process. so that means you don't have directives directly from congress, which makes it a little easier for elon musk and donald trump to keep doing what they're doing and stealing funds from the middle class and those aspiring to be in the middle class and putting them towards that $4.5 trillion for a tax break for donald trump and trump and elon musk. so this is just a setup to continue to take programs away from the middle class and to fund a giant tax cut. so i hope democrats do not look at this as something, you know, often we're the responsible ones. we want to keep the government open. we're not in charge. republicans are. but this bill is anything but but responsible. >> all right. congressman mark pocan, always a pleasure. thank you so much, sir. >> yeah. thank you.

>> next up, the very latest stop on donald trump's retribution on donald trump's retribution tour. we'll come on. you should go to t-mobile, and they'll give you a brand new iphone 16 on them. shhh! go to t-mobile, and get iphone 16 with apple intelligence on us on our most popular plans. plus get up to $800 when you switch. ♪♪ for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. [crowd chant] far-xi-ga ask your doctor about farxiga. ♪♪ tax info. >> tax forms, have. >> all the personal info thieves need to steal your identity. >> that's why lifelock. >> that's why lifelock. >> monitors millions of when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... ...being me. keep being you... ...and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete,

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the way i approach work post fatherhood, ask your doctor about farxiga. has really trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families like my own. in the average household, there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. and get up to $500 in five minutes or less when you. >> download dave. >> msnbc premium gives you early access and ad free. listening to rachel maddow chart topping series, msnbc original podcasts, exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. each week, veteran lawyers andrew weissmann and mary mccord break down the latest developments inside the trump administration's department of justice.

>> the administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> we have some breaking news tonight from up north. canada's liberal party has just elected a new leader. a banker named mark carney to replace outgoing prime minister justin trudeau. the vote came in the middle of a trade war and frequent bombastic threats against canada from president donald trump. and it was those threats and carney's pushback against them that caused a huge polling boost for the liberal party, which helped carney ride to victory tonight. and he had these strong words for trump and the u.s. at his victory rally just moments ago. take a listen. >> donald trump, donald trump and. donald trump. >> as we. >> know, has put. >> as the prime minister. >> just said, unjustified tariffs on what. >> we. >> build, on what we sell, on how. we make a living. he's

attacking canadian families, workers and businesses, and we cannot let him succeed. and we won't. we won't. >> now, trudeau has served as the leader of canada's liberal party for 11 years, and the country's prime minister for nine. back here at home, for someone who has largely escaped any kind of accountability in his own criminal cases, president trump cannot just move on. instead, he's got a lot to say about the so-called weaponization of the legal system and is now retaliating. he has signed an executive order that punishes the law firm perkins coie because it represented democrats, including hillary clinton, during the 2016 presidential campaign and joe biden in 2020. the order strips away security clearances for lawyers at the firm and removes access to government buildings and officials. trump said the order was, quote, an absolute honor to sign. this is the second time he has targeted a law firm for its work with his perceived political enemies.

last month, he signed a similar memo attacking covington and burling, which has done pro-bono legal work for special counsel jack smith. joining me now, julie roginsky, democratic strategist and author of the salty politics newsletter on substack and former virginia republican congressman denver riggleman. he's the author of the breach the untold story of the investigation into january 6th. so we know that donald trump holds grudges. but it's one thing to hold the grudge. it's another thing to weaponize the government. always projection with him that he has now signed these executive orders to more or less attack by stripping away any privileges that these law firms had, because they simply represented people that he perceived to be his political enemies. >> well, it's not really about perkins coie, right? and it's not really. >> about covington and burling. it's a message to anybody else who will work with. >> anybody who donald. >> trump does. >> not like. >> that they. >> shouldn't do that, that they should think twice. >> so he's trying to not just retaliate. >> having a chilling.

>> effect, right? >> he's not just trying to retaliate against perkins coie. he's trying to create, as you say, a chilling effect to ensure that people he doesn't like are unemployed. could not get a job and are persona non grata anywhere, not just in washington, but within any organization that has any business before the federal government, which. is every major law firm, every. major bank, and so. >> on and so forth. >> so this is the weaponization of government on steroids. this is the kind of dark fantasy that republicans would prophesize and invent stories about democrats doing. of course, they never did. >> this is it. and the problem. >> here is that, of course, a lot of these firms will back down and will ensure that they carry out the president's wishes because they, of course, want to continue doing the business they're doing now. >> for probably viewers who may not know this, and it's probably an aspect of washington most viewers don't know. but why do law firms have those types of privileges and security clearances when they're dealing with the government and representing clients that are in the government? >> well, of course. >> a lot of them need to have access, especially as law firms access to proprietary information. so security information in order to represent their clients

proactively. you can't represent a client who has anything to do with security clearances. if you don't have the clearance yourself to be able to represent them. >> and so. >> but again, this is much less about perkins coie. >> it's much more. >> about just sending a message to anybody, hey, don't hire a man, because he went on msnbc one day and said something mean about it. don't do that to denver. don't do that to julie. and so this is creating a two tiered system that allows people to ingratiate themselves and kiss the ring with donald trump to prosper and everybody else to not do well at all. and this is exactly the kind of weaponization of government that, of course, republicans always complained about. and their fantasies democrats doing. it's never happened before. george bush didn't do it. ronald reagan didn't do it. >> yeah. >> the first george bush didn't do it. and certainly no democratic president has done it until donald trump came here and decided to act effectively like the authoritarian he wants to become. >> yeah. and we know, congressman, i mean, these are storied law firms. but as julie was saying, it's not about perkins coie. his actions go against even further than that. he you know, his order seeks to limit lawyers access to federal

buildings, officials, even jobs down the line. the law firm says it's going to challenge us. how far can that fight actually go? what precedent does all this set? where do you see this going? >> well, the first thing i would want not to do is to threaten a whole law firm. that's a lot of lawyers. and i tell you what, i don't want to. i don't know if i want that many. lawyers swooping down on me. i also want to, you know, offer perkins coie a free coupon to our distillery. but no, i mean, you know, making whiskey is me a bit of freedom, but i think it is a chilling effect. when i read it, i actually couldn't believe it. but of course we believe it. you know, it's that it's that it's that dual thing, isn't it? amen. right. you're like what? that. oh, okay. yeah, it sort of makes sense. yeah. but he is on a retribution tour. and i think what scares me as we go down this line is and when julie talked about the future threats or other people looking at this, what what does that tell anybody about the rule of law that you have this kind of individual president that can do this to law firms, but is signing executive orders that might be

outside of the constitutional bounds. and i think what perkins is going to do, they're going to look at the constitutionality of this. my feeling is this is going to go a long way in the courts. i think there's going to be a real fight, and i don't think they're going to back down at all because it's so ludicrous what donald trump is doing. when julie says dark fantasy, it is almost. that's what it is. it's almost lawfare porn, you know, that's coming out of the white house right now. and i just don't know where it stops. but i do know people need to stand up, and i don't think perkins is going to back down at all. >> you know, let's talk about stephen miller for a moment, congressman, his american legal firm has been aggressively filing complaints and lawsuits to make the federal bureaucracy comply with trump's executive orders. they're calling it the right wing version of the aclu. axios described it as a private enforcement arm of the white house's assault on die. give me a sense of what you think is going on here and where that's going with what this assault, this lawfare assault that you described going and continuing. >> well, you know, i think i think a lot of people call this administration stupid, but they're not. this is an inside

out strategy. you know, when you have stephen miller out there writing, they're doing these type of lawsuits. it's pretty interesting that the administration talks about lawfare, where the weaponization, you know, of the legal system when they're weaponizing the legal system, the legal system, you know, every accusation is a confession. and i think what you're seeing right now with stephen miller, he's definitely acting within orders of the white house. it is an inside out strategy. and i think, again, the american people need to look at this and say, is this really what we want our government doing? is there an integrity in this process? what are we talking about with law? but, you know, stephen miller doesn't have the greatest background either. i know a lot about him. and i think when you have this somebody this vapid and somebody that's this absolutely the most incoherent in their strategy, somebody who seems to lean towards the white nationalist side. i think people need to stand up and say, hey, we don't want a group like this coming here and telling us who we can hire, who we can't hire, and a government that's trying to actually force their will upon people who maybe want to do other things in the diversity area. i just think it's absolutely ridiculous. >> julie. >> we've i think we have about 90 lawsuits against the trump

administration since he was inaugurated that are being filed against him for a whole host of reasons and challenges. and now we are seeing him retaliate, retaliate against these law firms. and i'm just wondering from kind of like a legal perspective, what does that do to the judicial system when you have this kind of open warfare between the government and law firms? you know, we're saying the chilling effect, but i'm talking more about like the disruption it creates for a city like washington, d.c. >> it creates disruption. >> but the part that scares me, that's not quite tested yet, but i think we all see where this is going, is i keep thinking back to that moment in 1945 at potsdam, after the war was basically over, and winston churchill said to joseph stalin, you know, you may not want to really screw around with the poles too much. i know that you're trying to either annex poland or have some sort of influence over poland. don't do that. you're really going to alienate the pope. you're going to alienate the catholic church. to which stalin apocryphally said, we don't really know if he said it or not. how many

divisions does the pope have? and i think about that all the time, because i think, how many divisions does john roberts have? let's assume that the courts finally say that trump is just acting extrajudicially and that he needs to stop. >> who is. >> going to enforce those orders? and are we getting to the point where this president is going to say, i truly don't care what the courts say i'm going to do? and stephen miller is going to say, i'm going to do whatever we want to do and not what the courts say, because the courts are illegitimate or the courts were appointed. some of these justices were appointed by democrats or whatever excuse they come up with. we've seen that already starting to happen. and the fear that i have is when that happens, that's when the constitutional rupture just fully happens. >> that's when we're in the middle of a constitutional crisis. >> but who's going to enforce it? yeah. and the answer is, of course, the courts don't have the ability to enforce that. federal marshals work for the justice department, and the justice department reports to pam bondi. and she, of course, will not do anything that the president doesn't want her to do. >> it is a scary thought. let's hope we don't. we do not get to that point. julie. denver, please stick around. next up, we're going to talk about how

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>> a problem, we. >> fix it. guaranteed. >> democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut is warning americans of something called petitioning the king. after seeing a number of lawmakers walk into the white house with nothing, only to walk out with something. case in point, republican congressman tom cole of oklahoma. he admitted on x that he worked closely with doge and the trump administration, and that because a common sense prevailed. a national weather center. social security administration office and an indian health services office will remain operational in oklahoma. and senator murphy responded to cole's post with a hard truth that, quote, donald trump shuts off spending so that each congressman, governor, senator, mayor has to come pledge loyalty to get the money turned back on. julian denver are back with me. julie, let m get your thoughts on this. so is that a fair description? petitioning the king is the error that we find ourselves in. i mean, when you see it that way, that clearly it is simply a

test that donald trump is this good cop, bad cop regime. elon musk shuts things down, cancels things, deletes things, and then donald trump waits for the local politician to come kiss the ring, pledge loyalty, and then he grants them whatever they want. >> it's like that scene out of the godfather, right? the first scene where, like, you know, don corleone, i come to you to ask you a favor and your daughter's wedding day, whatever that quote was, it's the same kind of thing. but it's not just congressman, right? it's companies who are going to get waivers from all these tariffs. he's going to start giving waivers out to whoever wants to put a little money into this pac or that pac or wherever else you want. the library, which of course is going to be going towards the library. so this is going to be a consistent pay to play scheme, either literally pay to play in the in in the case of companies or pay to play in the sense of political favors. if you come and kiss the ring as a member of congress or a senator, i will grant you your wish. let's not forget this is money appropriated by congress.

congress should not be on their hands and knees pleading with the sovereign to give them money that they've appropriated. that's how it works. they have the power of the purse. and yet tom cole apparently thinks there's nothing wrong with going to the white house and begging for money that he voted to appropriate. i mean, that's the most the most insulting thing in denver would speak to this better than i can as a former member. but the most insulting thing is you are a co-equal branch of government, and you're addressing it as a supplicant, as opposed to saying, hey, mr. president, this is the money that we appropriated. now go ahead and spend it. >> yeah. and you know, denver, what does it mean to have a gop member of congress like congressman cole basically saying he got the money for his constituents, and yet he has no problem with the money that congress, as julie was saying, appropriated to the american people to specific programs being slashed. he doesn't care that the money is being slashed elsewhere, as long as he got the money for his constituents by kissing the ring. >> you know, it's i got to get mine's thing and i, you know,

here's the thing too. you know, i just wasn't a congressman. i know, and probably me not kissing the ring is probably why it was a one term congressman, but maybe the most successful long term congressman in history. >> you should keep your head. up high. >> for that one. for sure. >> you know, i just i just couldn't do it right. and but here's the other thing too. it's also contractors, right. it's also big companies. you know, i have a company, i have an ai company. and people are calling me like denver. are we going to go through the normal contracting process or the competitive process? do we have to go to doge? do we have to have a direct link into doge? how do we get into the appropriations process? you eir probes packages, right? so you're talking as we're getting into april, this is going to get really, really aggressive, right. as people are putting in their line items. right. whether they're, you know, on p lines, things like that. and we could go into all that one day and i could explain that to you on the contractor defense side. but here's the thing. everybody's wondering if there's a single point of success or a single point of failure that actually funnels through doge up into the

actual appropriators look at. think about how scary that is. julie talks about, you know, sort of the separation of government. but everybody's hoping that elon gives them the blessing. you know, like, hey, we bless you. you know, sirloin of beef, right? you're allowed to go up and do that. but i think that's the thing that we're seeing right now is we're just seeing this line of appropriations that actually is a kiss the ring process. instead of the normal competitive process. it should be rolled through article one powers. >> yeah. and speaking of elon and donald trump, you see them both there. that's actually a, i believe, a live picture that we're getting in right now of both of them on marine force one at joint base andrews. they just seem to have returned from florida, i believe. so we'll keep an eye on that. we'll certainly keep an eye on if the president makes any comments when he planes marine force one on his way back to the white house. but let me play for you, julie, a clip of senator chris murphy, because he elaborated on what he called this like six week timeline of corruption on the senate floor last week. >> watch now, in america. >> it is. >> 100% clear that if you want

to get away with corruption, if you want. to steal from your constituents. >> and you are an elected official in this country, all you have. >> to do is just. >> sign up. >> for political loyalty. >> with donald trump, and. >> he will instruct the. department of. justice to let you get away with it. >> this is. >> how. >> democracies die. democracies die. >> when the very powerful. people steal. >> from. >> us so regularly. so openly, so unapologetically. that we come to believe that. it's normal. >> so what are your thoughts on that? is this i mean, is that an accurate description of where we are finding ourselves? and as as he mentioned, i mean, we've basically only been in this situation for about six weeks now. i can't imagine what it will look like at the end of four years. >> assuming this will end in four years. >> yeah. >> assuming it will end in for exactly four years. that's because if he's right, it's not going to end in four years. and

i think that's what they're getting up towards, right. there's going to be some sort of crisis. and they're going to say they have to invoke the insurrection act. and little by little by little, more, right. >> democracy. >> and i think senator murphy's been one of the most effective members of the senate to get this message out. i wish more people would join him, including the senate minority leader. i wish more members of the house would do the same, because i think he's been affecting communicating incredibly effectively about the threats that we face. look, this is not a drill and this is not hyperbole, and this is not. >> we are in the moment. >> we're in the moment. we're living through a time. and let me tell you something, as somebody who was born in the former soviet union, in a totalitarian country, as somebody who certainly traveled, as i know you have around countries in the world that are not bastions of democracy, this happens very quickly. yeah, this happens in an instant. and the rights that you thought that you were born with, that you would always have, because they've held firm for the last 250 years, on and off. not always, but we always kind of think that the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards

justice. sometimes the arc breaks. and it's happened that time. >> and it's happening so fast. denver really quickly. it's happening so fast that there's so many different layers to it that this kind of like flooding is taking place and nobody knows where and how to fight it on all these different fronts. >> yeah, it's really they are flooding the zone. right. and you almost have inaction based on not being able to react to everything that's happening in there. right. it's and i and i think that's the thing that julie's talking about too is your rights are slowly eroded. you're trying to keep up with all the things that are in the ecosystem. how in the hell do you actually respond to all those? and i think we're coming to a point where when you look at chris on the floor right there, he's exactly right. our freedoms are being eroded. when do we fight? confrontation is now. right now i'm not talking about fisticuffs, right. but i am talking about we need direct confrontation, and we need to make sure that we're looking out for the rights of everybody around us and protecting and being compassionate towards those who are being attacked right now. >> all right. we didn't even talk about the crypto reserve and what is being described as one of the biggest scams in this

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>> and he. took money. >> out of this country. >> under biden like candy from a baby. it was so. easy with. >> that same attitude. >> and i. >> just don't think he's grateful. >> nobody's been tougher than. >> trump. >> and biden hasn't been tough. biden's done nothing. he was a weak, pathetic man. >> nobody has. been tougher. >> on russia. >> than donald trump. >> nobody. and they know that. they know that. >> now, trump did threaten russia with sanctions recently, but the threat felt incredibly hollow because russia is already heavily sanctioned. his threat really doesn't do much. in fact, beyond the talk. trump's recent decisions are against ukraine, more so than russia. here's what he's done. he's halted military aid. he's cut off intelligence sharing and access to satellite imagery, which the ukrainians are actually using to track russian troops. and now he wants more than just a minerals deal

from zelensky in order to give back aid, and that intelligence reports say trump is even considering revoking protections for over 240,000 ukrainian refugees here in the united states. if this war feels far from over to us, imagine how ukrainians must feel right now. and vladimir putin, well, he's taking full advantage of it. russia attacked russian attacks have ramped up this past week alone. airstrikes on homes, shopping centers and power plants have killed dozens of ukrainians, and they've hurt many more. trump was looking for a quick win. he knows that's not happening with gaza. so maybe he figured, why not gamble with ukraine? it's not working, and now he needs someone to blame. perhaps that is zelensky, the guy he didn't expect to push back so hard. yes, trump moves hurt ukraine. but if trump thinks that means he'll get what he wants faster, he's wrong. ukraine depends on the u.s, no question about it. but given how trump talked in office and on the campaign trail, none of this

should shock ukraine or europe or even nato. trump has praised putin over and over and over and back. in 2018, he even said crimea should be part of russia. just off of that alone, maybe every party involved should have had a plan in place for the day. trump ditched the norms of u.s. foreign policy ukraine might rely on the u.s, but zelensky isn't letting trump paint it as weak. nearly a million ukrainians serve in the military. they are on the front lines, still enlisting despite heavy losses. and ukraine isn't surrendering without real security guarantees. that's because zelensky still has options. europe still sending billions, domestic weapons production is ramping up, and ukrainians are already figuring out how to counter trump siding with putin. bottom line trump is trying to twist zelensky's arm like ukraine is some colonial asset. he expects ukraine to just roll over and sign a peace deal because he tells them to. trump, like putin, sees ukraine as an obstacle, something to be controlled, something that should be grateful to have a seat at the table. but trump's making the same mistakes as

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she talks to some of the biggest names in democratic politics, with the biggest ideas for how democrats can win again. the blueprint with jen psaki. listen now. >> now, before the break, we examined trump's retribution towards ukraine and the toll it has already had on the ground in ukraine. my panel is back with me. congressman, i'll start with you. you have been to ukraine. you have witnessed how ukrainians have suffered throughout this war, how they are still fighting despite all of these setbacks. did you get a sense that the ukrainians expected for the u.s. to potentially abandon them at this point, as they saw the elections getting closer and donald trump ultimately winning back in november? and if you are in touch with the folks there, what are they telling you? >> yeah, and thanks for that. and yeah, i was there. i came back just before the election, you know, just a month or two before the election. and, you know, at that point there was a lot of trepidation. i don't think they expected it to be this much. you know, when you look at the stack and you notice

some of that, right? number one, you know, cia being deprioritized off the ukraine issue when you're looking at cyber command being deprioritized pentagon deprioritization of ukraine, when you're looking at commercial imagery from maxar. right. those type of things are really shocking. and somebody like me, who's been in the intelligence business and actually been on the ground in ukraine, those things are damaging. i will tell you this, though, i have never met a better people or a stronger people. you know, you almost fall in love with the country and what they're fighting and what they have to go through. and it was interesting because i stayed at this hotel when i got back. it actually got bombed when i came back. and it's pretty interesting. i am going back to ukraine, but i think right now the eu is starting to step up, step up. looking at what we did when we took away jamming support for f-16s, when i saw the mirage 2000 was starting to come in by the french. when you're looking at other people, looking at actually providing them satellite services for comms and starlink leaves, ukrainians are very resilient. i think russia is seeing that after three years, and i would not bet against the ukrainians digging in, because i got to tell you, they are some of the toughest people i've ever met and what

they've done to get over the intelligence challenges to this point should be applauded after three years, rather than just going forward. i think i think they got a lot left in them, and i think people are going to be very surprised, you know, about how tough they really are. >> let me read for you a little bit. from what elon musk said today, because of course he had to interject himself. and it's kind of, you know, i don't know if it's coincidental or what, but since we just saw the live pictures of him on board there with donald trump coming back to washington, d.c, this is what musk wrote on x. i literally challenged putin to one on one physical combat over ukraine. and my starlink system is the backbone of the ukrainian army. their entire front line would collapse if i turned it off. obviously, starlink internet terminals have played a crucial role in securing the communications among the ukrainian military. but just give me your thoughts on the fact that one man has this much power. this man is now closely aligned. if he is not completely in cahoots with donald trump on this policy and will leverage that private enterprise to exact

a policy by the president of the united states, what do you make of all of this? >> look, it's been reported that he speaks with vladimir putin all the time. i don't think he speaks to vladimir zelensky all the time. so we already know who his buddy is, and it's the one he wants to have some weird greco-roman wrestling match with. but it's i'll leave that to them. but here's the part that elon musk may not be aware of, because i don't think he's aware of much. and this is the part that i'm not sure donald trump is aware of, because he also is not aware of much. but in the 1990s, we signed an agreement, which we negotiated painstakingly with the ukrainians and the united kingdom to tell ukraine that if they got rid of their nuclear weapons, they had the third largest stockpile in the world, after us and russia at the collapse of the soviet union, if they got rid of their stockpile, that we would guarantee their security and territorial integrity. that's not negotiable. that was the deal that was cut during the clinton administration. the united kingdom backed it up, and the ukrainians reluctantly gave up that nuclear deterrent because they believed that we would

support them and protect their territorial, territorial integrity. right. we have now gone back on that. and what does that tell the egyptians, the saudis, the taiwanese and every other country in the world that thought that the nuclear umbrella, the protection of the united kingdom, united states, giving that protection to them would not necessitate them going nuclear. it now says that our word means nothing. it now says that if they want to avoid the same fate as ukraine, they better get nuclear weapons immediately. and that big, beautiful ocean that donald trump thinks is going to protect us. well, let me let me just. >> say he doesn't know how. >> let me introduce to him the concept of icbms, because let me tell you something. that'll be here in about two seconds. if somebody wants to shoot a missile over here. so this is the part that kills me, is that they don't understand. this is not about ukraine. yeah. this is about the safety and integrity of this nation and of the rest of the world. and if they don't think that this is a precursor and a harbinger of what is to come, because they have made the united states go back on their word, they are naive, and they

are putting us americans into the most perilous threats that we have been in, probably since 1945. >> i mean, congressman, you've you've been in these rooms much more than i have, certainly. but when you meet counterparts around the world and you're meeting officials around the world. now to julie's point, when they're sitting there and say, like, why should we ever believe the americans ever again? when you say, don't worry, we got your back. we're going to be committed to your country's survival or to your alliance or to whatever it is. why in the world would would anyone ever believe america after what donald trump has just done to ukraine in the span of a few weeks? >> i think it will be decades until we can actually rebuild the trust with our allies. for decades, i just i can't imagine they're looking over there, looking at the insanity that they're seeing in the white house and elon musk running around, you know, wanting to, as you know, julie said, have some kind of bare chested standoff with putin. i mean, who does that? what kind of seriousness? who who even serious wants to even see that, by the way? and i think the biggest battle, you know, that elon musk has ever had is with his hair plugs. right. so really, what is he

going to do. and you know, so i think that's what a lot of people are looking across. you know america and globally is what the hell is going on. what's going to happen. but what julie said about the threat ukraine is that bastion, right. that's fighting. so that's that's why i think we all need to support. we need to look at this in a in a very serious way. >> all right. congressman, former congressman denver riggleman, julie roginsky, thank you to the both of you for joining us this hour. greatly appreciate it. as always, a new hour of iman starts after a quick break. >> oh, what is this? >> damages. expensive. >> hey, paul. hey, fox. >> are you hiding from. used car shopping? >> no. yes. >> okay. >> just because. >> nearly half of all used cars have been in an accident doesn't mean you have to overpay. >> really? >> take my word for it. it doesn't have to be scary. >> okay. >> show me car fox. >> knowing how a car's. >> accident history. >> impacts price. >> means you don't. have to overpay. >> cool. >> wait. how did you get in here, exactly? >> no fear. >> just fox. say, show me a carfax com. >> seriously, how'd.

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