comcast business old. >> school pills. >> connect with a. >> medical provider. >> at rocus sparks. >> good to. >> be with you. i'm katie tur. the markets are off to another rough start this week as u.s. trade policy and most specifically tariffs, become a global game of chicken. right now, the dow is down nearly 500

points, down a percentage point a little bit more as americans consumers wait to see who blinks first, the white house or america's biggest trading partners. just this morning, china is imposing. >> its own. >> retaliatory tariffs on u.s. farm products in reaction to. president trump raising tariffs. >> on chinese goods. >> up to 20%. ontario plugging in an additional 25% export. tax on electricity produced in canada, but used by 1.5 million americans. and there is also a possible possibility that might double if things don't cool down or be cut off completely. we're going to see what canada's new prime minister, former central banker mark carney, who was selected over the weekend, does after he's sworn in later this week. in the meantime, though, president trump is threatening even more tariffs on our neighbor to the north, this time targeting canadian lumber and dairy. and then on wednesday, a 25% duty on global steel and

aluminum with retaliatory tariffs on virtually every u.s. trade partner starting on april 2nd, just about three weeks from now, as the president warns, whatever they tax us, we will tax them. we mentioned the markets a moment ago. all the uncertainty is sparking recession fears, something mr. trump and his administration don't seem to be on the same page about. >> are you expecting a recession this year? >> i hate to predict things like that. there is a period of transition. it takes a little time. it takes a little time. >> should americans brace for a recession? >> absolutely not. there's going to be no recession in america, but there's going to be as global tariffs are going to come down. >> i think the tariffs are going to be the greatest thing we've ever done as a country. >> are you worried. >> about a recession? >> maria bartiromo asked you and you kind. >> of hesitated.

>> i'll tell you what. of course you hesitate. >> who knows? >> there are. >> a. >> lot of. >> reasons to be extremely. >> bullish about. >> the economy going forward. >> but for sure this. >> quarter, there are some blips in the data. >> let's begin with nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett. >> haig. >> nbc news business data correspondent brian chang, and ashley parker, staff writer at the atlantic. we're going to start with tariffs. >> and then we're going. >> to. >> get to a. >> maybe a recession. >> garrett, you were in canada over the weekend. canadians are sounding very bullish about getting into this trade war with the united states. >> what did you hear? >> yeah, canadians are angry. they're frustrated. and they're feeling a little bit empowered here to push back. they've selected a new prime minister who made it clear that canada wasn't looking to start a fight, but said if someone else dropped the gloves, in hockey parlance, canada would be ready to respond. while i was there, i interviewed doug ford, who's the premier of ontario, canada's largest province, where they've got not just retaliatory tariffs in place against the united states, but he's threatening to

raise prices on electricity exports to the u.s, or even cut them off entirely if tariffs continue to be raised on canada. canada is among the us's largest, largest trading partners. it's sometimes rated as the highest, depending on how you count. but for canada, we are the biggest trading partner. they cannot afford to have this war go sour, but they're not just going to roll over and take it from the united states. there is a huge surge of patriotism in canada and a willingness to push back against donald trump. >> what do we expect from the new prime minister? i mean, he's only going to be there for maybe a month, maybe six months, depending on when they hold elections, if he. but he could win, so he could be there for much longer. there is still a short period of time that is, that is guaranteed, at least for now. >> that's right. a short period of time. he's guaranteed. although there is an interesting dynamic in canadian politics where donald trump attacking justin trudeau has had the effect of making trudeau's party now the same party as this new prime minister. the liberals recover in the polls. they were looking like they were going to get blown out. now, it's not necessarily the case. i've not

been able to get an answer yet from the white house about whether prime minister carney, the new prime minister, and donald trump have spoken yet. but as we've talked about before, katy, for donald trump, so much of foreign relationships, so much of politics is about individual relationships. see, i screwed it up. foreign policy, foreign relationships. that's how donald trump views it. so whether these two men hit it off in a phone call could be incredibly important to the world economy. just a question of whether they get along or not. >> brian, let me talk. take the counterpoint on tariffs. we've been covering tariffs. as a net bad thing for this country. that's the prevailing consensus among economists. anybody looking at gdp, looking. at the stock market. but there is industry in this country that supports it. and the times had an interesting look at steel manufacturers here in the united states who say that they can't compete with canada. there's no price that they can put on their product that canada can't undercut. so they're welcoming this. >> yeah. and look, i think that

when we talk about some of the potentially negative side effects of these tariffs, we're talking a lot about the near term implications. you see that in the stock market. and there is that concern that, you know, having tariffs on every country around the world is going to be proposed by these reciprocal tariffs would raise prices on americans. i think most economists would agree that would be the case. but i think the longer term implications of this, there are many different types of industries and constituencies in the united states that say tariffs would be good, because you look at some of these rust belt states that during the 1990s and the 2000 kind of got their lunch eaten essentially by industry, specifically in china. they want jobs back. and you can't kind of discount that that impact. but i want to point out there's this interesting kind of conversation happening, even within the democratic party where you mentioned the new york times. there was also an op ed by western pennsylvania democrat chris deluzio, who mentioned that even though the tariff approach by the trump administration, he says, is bad policy, he wants democrats to embrace tariffs in some cases, which can protect certain types of industries. he said that there's been this neoliberal. he described it as a wrong for decades. zombie horde. i mean, this is very much strong

language coming from within the democratic party. and i think when we talk about the overall long term implications of tariffs, perhaps bringing back in on shoring certain types of industries like aluminum or steel, that is very much part of the conversation. actually, some economists would also agree that in the past, even if tariffs have had a negative gdp impact, it has done the job in some cases of actually bringing companies back into the united states for domestic. >> it is. >> interesting actually, because what donald trump was able to ride both in 2016 and then again this time around, was this snowballing sentiment among american blue. collar workers who felt like they. were left behind by the global economy, that that nafta was a big promise that didn't get followed through on that, that corporations are certainly. doing really well. the stock market is doing really well. gdp has gone up, but their individual lives have not improved because of these global trade agreements. in fact, their towns have been decimated and they feel like they are not they're not a part of the conversation any longer that they hadn't, that the democratic

party hadn't been paying attention to them. so when donald trump came along and started, you know, going on about bringing factories back to towns like youngsville, ohio, they were listening and they thought that he was on their side. is this what they are writing? i mean, we talk about how donald trump was so cognizant of the stock market last time around. this time, he doesn't seem to be as sensitive to it. >> well. >> it's interesting. >> this time you have seen him. >> give, including in that. >> clip you. >> just. >> played a few. subtle admissions. >> of talking about. >> a brief period of pain. >> a little. >> bit of a disturbance. >> there does seem to. >> be. >> from trump, if not. from necessarily everyone. else around. >> him publicly, an. >> acknowledgment of just what. >> he's. >> trying to do. will mean. >> in terms of. >> consumer prices. >> in terms of the short term of. >> the. >> stock market. >> it's interesting. >> i've been talking to, or at. >> least previously. >> i've been talking to. >> a. number of. >> top democrats, including some who had worked for the biden. >> administration, who. >> when they were being. >> candid, would. >> say. >> look.

>> nafta was. >> good for. >> some things. >> it wasn't. good for some. >> of these communities. >> it wasn't. >> good for certain manufacturing sectors. >> it did. >> mean there would be. winners and losers. and the. people who donald trump during the campaign. >> was appealing to and was. >> speaking to were. >> those losers, so to speak, in the sense that. >> they had seen. >> their jobs shipped overseas, shipped north or south of the border. >> they had. >> seen their. >> communities decimated because of that. so that. is an actual reality. but the flip side is that donald trump's. >> voters, and. >> this is something that his top aides tell me repeatedly, they voted. for him because they believed that he would make their lives better. and they meant. >> that in a. >> very specific way. >> it was. >> a financial betterment. it meant prices would be lower if they had savings, their. >> savings would do. >> well, their pensions would do well. >> they would. >> be able to. >> afford a home potentially. and that is the metric by which

he is going to be judged ultimately. >> so how is that going to play out? brian, if we're talking about potentially a recession? >> yeah. well, i think first off, when we talk about recession, we have to acknowledge that the metrics right now don't look like a recession. we just got a jobs report last week that showed the unemployment rate at 4.1%. yes. the amount of jobs that were added in the month of february was about 20,000, below what economists were expecting. but the pace of job gains looked very similar to the last few months of the biden administration as well. what we are starting to see is some flashing signs of concern in things like consumer confidence, which fell to a low that we haven't seen in over a year. that is kind of a leading indicator for what economic activity could look like going forward. and there is this worry that despite the progress on inflation that we've made, that this could go the other way, depending on how long the tariffs are put into place. so i think it's just kind of this, this concern over the medium term for what the economy is going to look like, that could have people very much spending with their dollars in what could be a recessionary dynamic, concerns over a recession,

making people pull back in spending, which could have that weird, self-fulfilling prophecy of actually cratering economic activity. i think that there are some measures, like the atlanta fed, they have a measure of gdp, which could be predictive. it's not necessarily a forecast, but based off of the measures that they've gotten so far, they are predicting a contraction in the economy for the first quarter of this year. we'll have to see if that's the case. but nonetheless, it does underscore that this concern is existing not just on main street. you could see it on wall street as well. that's why we've erased all the gains year to date on the dow jones. >> how sensitive is donald trump to this? because again, as we played at the top of this, garrett, him and his economists don't seem to be on the same page about this. >> well, look, i mean, i think there's two different factors at play here. i still think donald trump is perfectly sensitive to the stock market. it's his favorite way to score. keep on the overall health of the economy. i don't think that's changed, but i also think he and his team are realistic to the point that they understand that if they're really going to do what they're talking about doing with tariffs that are both punitive, relating to fentanyl production, having nothing to do

with the broader economy or the reciprocal tariffs that they're talking about putting in place in april, that that's not going to be without disruption. the question is, is disruption, you know, a week or a month or a slight downturn, or does it become much more serious problem? i think everybody in this white house remembers joe biden talking about transitory inflation. i think there's a real sense of awareness to not get caught making a promise that something is going to be easy when it turns out to not be so down the line and have it appear in campaign ads against your allies, if not yourself, in the not too distant future. >> so why not just keep it. >> on. >> that message? ashley? why not. >> just. >> say that this. >> is. >> again, a period. >> of transition? >> we're trying. >> to build back this economy. >> we're trying. >> to make more goods here, bring jobs home, bring. manufacturing home, or even out the global trading system. why get into fentanyl in canada? why, why, why target canada as if it's like a bad. >> guy when. >> it comes to bringing drugs into this country, which which we keep hearing from donald

trump and this administration, even though even though the numbers just don't support it in the way that donald trump is, is, is using it, it's just not the numbers are not high enough for donald trump to be saying that canada is the real problem here, right? >> well. >> i will say canada is not the only country that he attaches using tariffs to curb. fentanyl with. but the thing about trump and tariffs is that, you know, he says they're the most beautiful world. >> and he views. >> them as a catch. >> all right. >> that that they can be a carrot. they can be a stick. they can be something. >> he threatens. >> as a negotiating tactic. they can be. something he removes when people are. behaving the. way he wants. they can be financial. they can be. about undocumented immigrants crossing the southern border. they can be about curbing the tide of fentanyl. and it is a messaging. >> point of view. >> for him. they get. >> to his. >> core message, which is. >> people. >> other countries. and i'm not

saying this message is necessarily accurate all the time, but the message which resonates politically is that people in other countries are taking advantage of you. you are the victim, and i am the only one willing to fight for you and to put america first. the challenge with that, i'll just briefly say, going back to. >> what brian. >> said is he correctly pointed out on the one hand that a lot of these economic. >> indicators. >> for instance. >> don't point. >> to a recession just yet. but the. problem that trump will potentially. >> have is the. exact same problem. >> that joe biden had. there were a lot of great economic indicators for joe biden, but when there's no eggs on the shelves or the cost is very high, that's what voters care about. >> all right. ashley parker, smart analysis there brian chung garrett hake smart. >> from you guys as well. thank you guys. >> coming up next saudi arabia and the unusual role of peacemaker or so they're hoping as the ukrainian president arrives for talks with secretary of state marco rubio and other top u.s. administration officials, can they clean up the mess left after that? that bad,

bad, bad. oval office meeting with president trump and vice president j.d. vance and later house republicans released their plan to avoid a government shutdown? do they have everybody in line? they can only afford to lose one republican. we are back in 90s. >> this is the emirates premium >> this is the emirates premium economy seat. economy. i'm obsessed... with this olay hyaluronic body wash with vitamin b3 complex. it's really hydrating. my skin is visibly improved. look at the olay difference. it's olay hyaluronic body wash and lotion. i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal.

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rubio and ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy are set to meet separately with saudi saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman ahead of tuesday's negotiation between american and ukrainian officials on a peace deal to end the war in ukraine. on the russian side of things, though, no sign of peace as it barraged ukraine with airstrikes over the weekend. we should note this barrage came after president donald trump suspended military aid and intelligence sharing with kyiv. here is what mr. trump said about that on air force one last night. >> would you. >> consider lifting the. >> pause on ukraine? >> what does ukraine have? well, we just about have i mean, we're really just about half. and we want to do anything we can to get ukraine to be serious about getting something done. you know, i say they don't have the cards. nobody really has the cards. russia doesn't have the cards. they don't have. what you have to do is you have to make a deal and you have to stop the

killing. >> joining us now, new york times diplomatic correspondent michael crowley and ned price, former cia and senior state department official. all right, so, michael, give us the contours of this meeting. what are what are the expectations? >> well. >> you. >> know. >> i think that a. >> big part of the question. >> here is what. >> is the. us proposal and plan? >> what are they. going to be pushing here? >> and there's an indication that after that terrible meeting at the white house last. >> week, the. >> us is. >> actually asking more. >> of ukraine. >> so the. pressure has. >> just been steadily. >> growing on. >> zelenskyy and the ukrainians. >> us officials have. >> been saying in. recent hours. >> that they're now. >> you. >> know, really looking specifically to see what concessions ukraine is willing to make in the name of peace. and it's really. >> just. >> you. >> know, upside down from the days when my co-guest. ned here was representing the us position. and, you know, under the biden administration, the

question was. >> that, you know, peace is. >> a possibility, but the russians have to be willing to make concessions. >> because they are the aggressors. >> they are the initiators. they occupy about a fifth of ukrainian territory. and the question now that administration officials seem to be posing is, what is ukraine willing. >> to give. >> up in the name of peace? and you have just heard nothing about sacrifices or concessions the russians. have to make. so, you know, that's the early sign of where this is headed. and it will be interesting to see whether ukraine actually does put anything like that on the table in this meeting. >> and two points of leverage here. what did you make of donald trump last night saying on air force one that they're going to start intelligence sharing again with kyiv? what do what do we know about the plans for that? >> you know, it's really confusing. >> i mean. >> trump has been all over the map. >> there is. >> a consistent through line here of being very tough on the ukrainians, much tougher on the ukrainians than on the russians.

but then every now and then he zigzags. >> so you saw. >> i believe it. >> was on friday. which seemed to kind of come from out of nowhere. and we've seen no follow up on that. so, you know, what is the meaning of this? it's not really clear. maybe there's a little bit of an effort to use carrots and sticks at the same time, which if you thought this was being played out rationally, it could make some sense. but honestly, it has a kind of a random quality to it. >> the other aspect, michael, just to pick on you for one more question is what elon musk posted on his social media the other day that his starlink system is the backbone of the ukrainian army, and their entire front line would collapse if he turned it off. well, how do you interpret that message? >> look, it's got to be incredibly ominous for the

ukrainians. i mean, it's a true statement, basically. the ukrainians rely very heavily on starlink, by the way. ned may have had the same experience. i went into ukraine with the secretary of state. when you're on that long train from the polish border to kyiv, you connect to starlink on your wi-fi. and actually, the signal is amazing. there's no password. so, you know, you really you really experience it, but, you know, it has a little bit of the tone of, you know, in the old mobster movies, you know, this is a nice establishment you have here. it would be a shame if anything were to happen to it. yeah. it's basically, you know, that comes across as a threat. and i think that's how the ukrainians are probably reading it. >> ned, give us the diplomatic side of things. what would it mean for the us to, to, to push the zelenskyy to give up a portion of its territory to vladimir putin? that's what nbc is reporting is going to be pushed in this meeting that that zelenskyy should give up some of the territory that that russia has been able to take.

>> katie. taking that approach would be tantamount to saying to ukraine, you need to surrender. you need to give up what you've been fighting for over the course of the past three years. if you take a step back and review the course of the past three years. katie, look, we in the biden administration, president biden led the world in implementing a strategy to see ukraine win. to see ukraine win by strengthening its hand on the battlefield. that, in turn, would strengthen its hand at the negotiating table, which we all knew would have to eventually emerge. to be totally honest, i don't know what president trump's strategy is, but if president trump wanted to implement a strategy to see ukraine lose, to see ukraine surrender, as i just said, it would look a lot like this. and i say that because the trump administration has just about systematically removed every single point of leverage that the ukrainians had, every single

point of leverage the biden administration provided them to see them win on the battlefield and ultimately at the negotiating table. we've talked about the security assistance. we've talked about the intelligence sharing. and by the way, katie, it's probably no coincidence that moscow has launched some 264 attacks on ukraine, since that intelligence sharing has been ceased. and perhaps worst of all, most detrimental of all to ukraine. president trump has pulled out the rug on the international unit. the fact that you had dozens upon dozens of countries providing security assistance, intelligence sharing, humanitarian assistance, economic assistance, of course, not only supporting ukraine, but sent a very powerful message to president putin that he couldn't win this, that he couldn't be waited out that has now been removed. and unfortunately, katie, ukraine is in a much weaker position now, and my fear is that we'll see that play out ultimately at the negotiating table. >> gentlemen, hang on a second. we were able to connect with

keir simmons, our chief international correspondent, who's joining us from jeddah now. keir, good to have you. i see night has fallen there. what can you tell us about this imminent meeting? >> well, president zelensky is here. the arabic channels here now reporting that the that marco rubio, the secretary of state, has arrived. so they do appear to be separate meetings with mohammed bin salman, the crown prince of saudi arabia. but it's possible, i suppose, that they could see each other. the president of ukraine and america's top diplomat here in jeddah. that wouldn't be surprising, given that they're in the same place. but ostensibly, what is supposed to be happening is that zelensky is meeting with the crown prince, which i think you could describe as a kind of mediation meeting. and then rubio is leading the us delegation meeting with the ukrainians from tomorrow here. now, i heard some of your conversation. i mean, this is going to be a really fraught few days of diplomatic talks. i

suspect we won't hear very much about what is said with the crown prince. you might argue that that's the way it should have gone when the president zelenskyy met president trump, i guess more than a week ago now, wasn't it? because, you know, the conversation that happened in public exploded partly because it was in public. so i think we won't hear on that in that respect. but when it comes to the meeting between the ukrainian officials and us officials, we very likely will. it's somewhat confusing what each side is trying to ask for and what they're going to demand. i don't think it's entirely clear what president trump's final ambition is. i will say and listen to your conversation on the on the battlefield. ukrainians have not been winning. and in kursk, certainly the russians are taking more territory. that's the area, of course, of russia that the ukrainians hold now, some of. but here's an interesting aspect of that, katie, is that the russians, if they think they are taking back kursk, may think that despite

signaling that they want a ceasefire, the ceasefire isn't in their interests right now, because why would you stop and negotiate over that territory if you think you're going to be able to get it back and be in a stronger position there? there is a lot of cloak and dagger happening on all sides, but certainly on the russian side. >> good context. keir simmons, michael crowley, ned price, gentlemen, thank you very much. and elon musk pushes for a new wave of buyouts to federal employees. what it's going to mean if they take the offer. mean if they take the offer. that is next. are my 5 morning alarms a metaphor for everything else i'm putting off ? like my laundry? or my 768 unread texts? i'm just your dermatologist. you don't want all this showing up on your face. try hydro boost. neutrogena. weightless hydration that goes deep. greg takes prevagen for his brain and this is his story. hi, i'm greg. i live in bloomington, illinois. i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. eight years ago, i just didn't feel like i was on my game. i started taking prevagen and i want people to know

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you think those phone guys will ever figure out how to keep 5g home internet from slowing down during peak hours? their customers have to share a wireless signal with everyone in their area. oooh. you know, it's kinda like when you bring a really big cake for your birthday, and then there's only a little, tiny sliver left for the birthday girl.

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reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> the trump administration is facing a 6 p.m. deadline today to release $670 million in foreign aid, after a federal judge ordered the government to unfreeze payments to some contractors and nonprofits. at the same time, the administration is still wielding elon musk's chainsaw. this time offering a new blanket buyout to staffers at the department of health and human services. 80,000 of them have until the end of business on friday to accept or reject as much as $25,000 to quit. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent aaron gilchrist. sam stein, managing editor at the bulwark, and barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney and current msnbc legal analyst. all right, so, aaron, walk us through the most recent proposed buyouts. >> so this proposal that you just talked about from health

and human services is something that we understand people got emails about on friday. some 80,000 employees in that department received these emails saying that they would have the option to take this voluntary separation incentive payment of $25,000 in order to end their employment with the federal government. this comes as we've seen other agencies also talk about similar programs. we've seen some agencies also talk about early retirement, for example. we just got a note from one of our producers that nasa is offering voluntary early retirement now to some of its employees. as a part of this workforce reduction. we know that this week there is a deadline for all the federal departments to present phase one of their plans to reorganize their departments, really to reduce the workforce in a significant way. we talked about mass layoffs a couple of weeks ago, coming across the federal government as a result of these reorganization plans, these first couple of steps, this idea of this voluntary separation, this buyout offer, the voluntary

early retirement, those are all mechanisms that are available to the departments with the approval of opm, sort of ahead of a mass layoff, ahead of a reduction in force, as the government calls it. and so we can expect to see this sort of thing play out. the deadline for hhs employees is this friday. we'll likely see other agencies take advantage of similar programs, similar efforts. before. katie, i think we start to see mass layoffs across the federal government over the next several months. >> sam, part of the blowback has been that this is just, you know, it's very broad brush. you are letting go, either firing or offering buyouts to people who are necessary for the federal workforce and are working in sensitive agencies. hhs is a sensitive agency that oversees health protocol in this country. we can talk about nasa. we can talk about others. why? why has there not been an adjustment in the way these things are proposed, or has there been that we're just not aware of in order to not be in a situation where

they're like, you know, firing people and then rehiring them a week later when they realize, oh, wait, we need that. we need that task force. >> so. yeah. >> there there has been some somewhat of an adjustment. right. so doge obviously went in. they just took a chainsaw to multiple agencies and then quickly realized that they had fired people in critical functions. as you know, one of my one of the most ridiculous ones was officials at the nuclear safety facility in los alamos. and they quickly realized, oh my god, we need to rehire these folks. so we're seeing a little bit more prudence, i suppose, with respect to that going forward. and we've also seen doge kind of accommodate for the fact that they've made mistakes. you've noticed on a couple occasions up on the hill, elon musk has talked to republican lawmakers and said, here's my cell phone. if you have a problem, we can reverse the cuts. and then there's been lawmakers who have come out and said, i've successfully petitioned elon musk to reverse these cuts in my state and my district. and it

raises the question, well, are republican lawmakers the only ones who are going to be able to get an access to elon musk and doge to do this? the other thing i would just note is that we've seen friction within the cabinet and within the cabinet in elon, specifically, in which cabinet officials are saying, hey, we know our agency is better, we know where to cut and who we want to cut. and having 20 to 25 year old doge bros come in with an excel spreadsheet and say, you know what? this person's got probationary employee in front of their name. we should cut them. that's not the most efficient way to do it. and so we're seeing adjustments here and there. but again, this is all prelude to the fact that what we've seen so far is just a small amount of the cuts. and when we get to the rift section, we're going to see huge reorganizations of the federal workforce. and that could just set off a whole nother round of what we've been dealing with so far. >> where have the courts fallen on the legality of these mass buyouts, barbara? >> well. >> we've seen some success in plaintiffs seeking temporary restraining orders in some of

these cases because of the need for things like due process, the needs for things like the ability for employees to go through the merit systems protection board, they can't simply be fired. now, if you are offering a buyout, that's a contract. and those have been upheld. there have been some lawsuits designed to prevent the buyout offers that have not been successful. so i think legally if you offer someone a buyout and they accept it consensually, that is a contract. so i think those are going to be upheld. but, you know, as we've heard, the foolishness to me of this exercise is that elon musk and doge have not been using a scalpel, they've been using a hatchet. and even this newest proposal of 80,000 employees at hhs sounds to me like a hatchet. and so it risks removing people who are there, providing vital services for the good of the american people, and perhaps has an eye toward ultimately privatizing some of this work. but of course, running a government like a business. we have seen in too many instances, does not put public virtue above

bottom line profit. and that's why i think it is so concerning and dangerous to those of us who've worked in government. >> on the subject of that tension between some cabinet officials and elon musk, there was reporting in the new york times last week about a big blowout, a big blowup in the in the white house between people like marco rubio and elon musk, talking about the way that he's just trying to get in and cut everybody in these cabinet leaders are saying, wait, hold on, let us be in charge of this. you shouldn't be getting into our departments. aaron, what does nbc news have on that meeting and what is the white house saying? >> well, excuse me, the reporting has been consistent, that there was some pushback from particularly from secretary rubio and from secretary duffey, the transportation secretary on elon musk and some of the ways in which he's been executing these changes in staffing. they have been saying, according to sources, that they believe it was better for them to handle that sort of thing, to be able

to identify who are the best people to keep and who are the people that needed to be let go. and so the narrative that came out of that meeting is that this was an aggressive back and forth between these three gentlemen. and all weekend long, we've heard the administration really pushing back on that, saying that there was no blowup in this cabinet meeting that happened. i believe it was on thursday of last week. i want you to hear what president trump himself had to say about this. i think he was asked about it on air force one last night as he was returning to dc from florida. listen. >> i don't think the tensions are high. look, elon's a very special person and these cabinet people are special people. you know, these are very successful people or they wouldn't have gotten you know, they've attained the highest heights of government. that doesn't mean they don't have a little bit of an argument here and there about something or maybe personnel arguments. >> so the president seemingly suggesting there that he has surrounded himself with a lot of big personalities and people who

have opinions and people who are now really involved in the operation of the agencies to which they've been appointed. katie. and so the idea that there would be disagreement in a cabinet meeting may not be that unusual. at least that's the suggestion from the president. >> all right. aaron, sam, barbara, thank you guys very much. and coming up next, president trump backed speaker johnson's plan to keep the government funded and avoid a shutdown. will he be convincing enough for every single republican? this guy right here can only afford to lose one can only afford to lose one republican vote. (vo) what happens when one of the most famous dunkers of all time goes to the greatest lobsterfest of all time? (blake griffin) i make red lobster famous. (vo) no blake, dunking happens. (blake griffin) yeah, you're right. (vo) create your own lobster lover's dream with 2 or 3 choices on one plate. at red lobster. ♪ like a relentless weed, moderate to severe ulcerative colitis symptoms can keep coming back. start to break away from uc with tremfya... with rapid relief at 4 weeks.

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because the countdown is on again for house republicans to pass yet another stopgap funding bill. they seem to always be doing this when donald trump is president. if they don't pass this, the government will shut down friday at midnight. the house rules committee is going to take up a cr vote today, with a full house vote expected tomorrow. the cr or the continuing resolution, as i'm sure you know by now, would boost key military spending while cutting an array of domestic programs. house democrats seem united in their plan to vote no on the bill. they do not agree with those cuts, meaning speaker johnson can only afford to lose a single, just one republican vote. joining us now from and from capitol hill is nbc news capitol hill correspondent julie sorkin. julie, donald trump is getting involved in this. is he

convincing enough to keep the entire republican conference in line? >> it sure looks like it at this point. i mean, never say never. but at this point, i think, according to my sources, house republican leadership feel confident that they could potentially get this bill over the finish line with just republican votes. he spent last week meeting behind closed doors at the white house with some of the more conservative members on the house freedom caucus, some of them who never have voted for a continuing resolution in their entire history of being a lawmaker in the house, but this time singing a different tune because of who is in the white house and who's trying to pressure them to get this bill across the finish line so that they could then turn to other priorities, like funding the president's agenda through that reconciliation process. of course, there's still a moment that we could experience where a republican, in addition to thomas massie, who already said he's firmly a no, could come out and vote against it. but at this hour, it does appear like all republicans are going to be unified. that key vote that you mentioned in a few hours in the house rules committee, massie used to sit on that panel.

johnson kicked him, kicked him off of it. and so now he has more loyal members on that committee who will move this bill along. >> what about the senate? are there going to be enough democrats to say yes to this bill, given what we know about it? and can you tell us what exactly the republicans want to cut in order to, to keep government spending the same? >> yeah. and they keep referring to this as a clean continuing resolution. it is not clean. clean would mean that they are just keeping status quo, extending, frankly, biden era spending levels and not touching it. but as you showed in that chart, they are cutting non-defense discretionary spending, which democrats already said they will not do in that is actually embroiled a pot of money for d.c, for the local government here, which certainly democrats are going to be vehemently against. they were already opposed to it over the weekend, and they are boosting defense spending. so for democrats, that has just been a nonstarter because they're really not getting anything out of this equation. the thing is, though, if the house if house republican leadership manages to pass this with only republican votes, not relying on any democrats, which will be difficult for johnson, that will

put an immense amount of pressure on senate democrats. you need seven of them to join all 53 republicans in approving this continuing resolution. so far, they are opposed to it. but when the rubber meets the road and they are faced with an impending government shutdown, especially in the face of those elon musk d.o.j. cuts, the layoffs to federal workers, democrats again demonstrating that they care about the federal government. they care about federal workers. it's going to be difficult for them to then vote against keeping the government open. so a lot of moving parts here to watch all of the moving parts start in the house, though. and leader schumer in the senate side hadn't even indicated how he will proceed with this, because he's really keeping his cards close to the vest at this point. katie. >> yeah, you got that. julie sorkin, thank you very much. coming up next, immigration agents arrest a u.s. green card holder on the campus of columbia university, sparking protests. what they are saying he did and why they're justifying this detention. >> stanley steemer is proud to

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detaining this man? >> apparently what you just said. and they said that they were revoking his green card. and apparently it is on the word from homeland security, i should say the secretary of state. and as requested by president trump. and before i get to that, i want to just mention to you that you see a lot of activity behind me at the entrance to columbia university's campus. and there's a small group of community people who are protesting in line with what you're talking about. we're going to see more protests later on this afternoon. i should mention to you that according to the attorney for khalil, his wife said that her husband has a permanent status as well as a green card. and according to the attorney, they were told that that was being revoked to the. we also know that a statement was put out about him in terms of his arrest. and it goes and this is from the department of homeland security. it says essentially that ice and the department of state are

committed to enforcing president trump's executive orders and to protecting u.s. national security. so they're saying, in some essence, that khalil is a security threat, and therefore, they were revoking the right for him to be here. many people now are saying that they're very upset with how this is all come down. katie. >> rehema, i'm curious if we know a little bit more about what he is accused of doing. i know he's they say that he's organizing these campus protests. some of the protests got pretty ugly. some of the things that were said were on the more extreme end of things. do we have any evidence that that he was one of those people outwardly endorsing hamas or, you know, endorsing death to israelis? do we know anything of what he said and what he did during the time protesting? >> no, we do not. it is known that he was one of the leaders involved in the protests that occurred here at columbia university. he was outspoken

about it. he has spoken on camera about it. and maybe one of the reasons why they were able to come up with his name in order for this action to be taken by ice authorities against him. but in terms of actual specifics of any particular order that was issued about khalil himself, we have not seen any documentation to that regard. so his attorney in some sense is saying he's in the dark about this. his wife and family are saying they are in the dark about this. and some students here on this campus are saying they're very uncomfortable about all of it. katie. >> all right. rehema ellis, thank you very much for joining us on this on this story. we appreciate it. that's going to do it for me today. i will be right back here at 3 p.m. eastern. please join me then. in the meantime, chris jansing the meantime, chris jansing reports -honey... -but the gains are pumping! dad, is mommy a "finance bro?" she switched careers to make money for your weddings. oooh the asian market is blowing up! hey who wants shots, huh?! -shots?? -of milk. the right money moves aren't as aggressive as you think.

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