of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> we're going to start with breaking news on capitol hill. >> mounting questions over the future of tiktok in the u.s. >> reporting from philadelphia. >> el paso. >> and the. >> palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. good day. i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. red warning. another week, another wall street selloff as the president refuses to rule out a recession, even while promising big gains down the road. how long can americans hold on? plus, dramatic images of a small plane burning in the parking lot of a pennsylvania retirement community. the pilot warning about an open door before it fell from the sky. the latest on the people on board and on the ground. and a legal fight brewing after the arrest of a pro-palestinian activist

who helped lead the protests at columbia university. he has a permanent resident green card. so why did ice detain him anyway? it is a busy monday and we start with the market sinking again after president trump refused to rule out a recession. a remarkable vote of no confidence for a president who predicted an economic boom on day one. now he's signaling to americans things may get worse before they get better. >> are you expecting a recession this year? >> i hate to predict things like that. there is a period of transition because what we're doing is very big. we're bringing wealth back to america. that's a big thing. and there are always periods of it takes a little time. it takes a little time, but i don't i think it should be great for us. i mean, i think it should be great. >> the market's not responding well, as you can see,

compounding last week's brutal losses with another day deeply in the red. the dow right now down 567 points. but some of trump's own economists contradict him. the director of his national economic council, kevin hassett, predicted today the economy will, quote, take off come spring. trump's commerce secretary, howard lutnick, was even more blunt. >> should americans. >> brace for a recession? >> absolutely not. >> anybody who bets against donald trump. >> it's like. >> the same people who thought donald trump wasn't a winner. >> a year ago. >> donald trump is a winner. >> he's going to win for the american people. that's just the way it's going to be. there's going to be no recession in america. >> but donald trump is the one who just said he wasn't sure. i want to bring in nbc senior national correspondent jay gray live in ottawa for us. henrietta torres is managing partner and director of economic policy research at veda partners. charlie dent is a former

republican congressman from pennsylvania and executive director of the aspen institute congressional program. nbc's brian chung is with me here on set. so, brian, explain what's behind these concerns of a possible recession. what even constitutes a recession? >> yeah. and by the way, we should just point. >> out that the economic. >> indicators that we see right now do not point to the united states being in a recession right now. we just got a jobs report on friday that show the unemployment rate at 4.1% in the first report. that covers anything that trump would have done, given the timing of that survey. that is basically around in line with the final months of the biden administration as well. but as you mentioned, you see what's happening on wall street. we've erased all the gains that we've had year to date in 2025. we are now negative for the year on the dow jones. and i think that that underscores the wall street concerns that we could be increasing the odds of a recession. we've heard some wall street banks say that as well. goldman sachs raising the odds of recession in the coming year to 20%. yardeni research raising the odds of a recession in 1 to 3. again, those are just odds.

but the atlanta fed, which watches a number of indicators that we get and kind of like a real time basis, they say that there could be the odds of a negative a quarter of contraction in the united states, as measured by gdp. if there were two quarters back to back of negative activity in the united states, that would be in some cases perceived as a recession. so again, these are just kind of like warning signs, not necessarily anything that tells us we're in one right now. but you see what's happening on wall street. certainly that concern is out there. chris. >> so, henrietta. kevin hassett, the director of the national economic council, was asked if he was concerned about a recession. here's part of what he said. >> i think that. >> what's going to happen is the. >> first quarter is going to squeak into the positive category, and then the second quarter is going to take off as everybody sees the reality of the tax cuts. >> so does that ease concerns at all or just confuse things given what the president said? >> honestly, it sounds like kevin hassett is confused. there are no tax cuts coming. the bill that they're writing right now extends existing rates. and that's the biggest part of this problem. this is a $5 trillion bill, $3 trillion of which at

least is going to be deficit financed. and there's no stimulative effect. so when trump goes on national television and he says he's, you know, not willing to rule out a recession, it's a combination of two things and a remarkable showing of his cards here and that the tariffs are going on. they will be inflationary. they're taxes on american consumers. and the tax bill that they're writing is not, in fact, stimulative. it has no economic feedback because it's an extension of the status quo, almost fully financed by the deficit. so i think kevin hassett has got to stop calling it tax cuts when that's not what it is. >> important fact check there. all right jay canada is not backing down today. ontario is adding a surcharge for electricity that's sent to some u.s. states. justin trudeau's successor mark carney, just showed in his victory speech he's ready to take on president trump over these tariffs. what more can you tell us about all that and about him? >> yeah. and let's start with that surcharge on the electricity chris. it's going to affect about 1.5 million

families in the states of new york, michigan and minnesota. doug ford, the premier of ontario, levying that surcharge. he said it's going to cost families about $100 a month in added cost, and said at one point, if the president continues to push canada, he won't hesitate to shut that electricity off altogether. let's shift over to mark carney. he's the economist who's never held office who won the leadership of the liberal party last night at their convention, calling his win with nearly 86% of the vote a mandate focused on president trump, the tug of war over those tariffs, and a trade war that continues to intensify. the canadian. >> government has rightly retaliated and. is rightly retaliating. >> with our. >> own tariffs. >> that will have. >> maximum impact in. >> the united. >> states and. >> minimum impact here in canada. >> and my government will. >> keep our. >> tariffs on until the

americans show. >> us respect. >> the americans, they should. >> make no mistake in trade, as in. hockey canada will win. >> look, i have to tell you, we were at that convention last night. there was more talk about the white house, about the president, about the situation with the tariffs and the suggestions of president trump that canada could become the 51st state than there were actually about a campaign or their party. so they are highly focused on this. and having been here for a bit, chris, i can also tell you there's a strong surge of nationalism here in canada. protests outside the u.s. embassy, a boycott of american goods, u.s. wine and liquor pulled from the shelves of government liquor stores. we know canadians have a well-earned reputation of being kind, composed, and reserved. i can tell you right now, we're

also learning that when they're pushed, when they feel like they have been embarrassed and they feel like they are getting bullied, they're very quick to stand up and push back. >> jay gray, thank you for that. so, henrietta, when your clients call you and they say, you know, what do you think the next few weeks or months look like, what do you say to them? >> you know, it's interesting. my clients are mostly investors on wall street, and they're calling from various conferences saying, you know, the tide has turned. the environment is much more sour now than it was a couple of months back. and that's because markets are predictive and future looking. so the stock market tumbles that you're seeing today. and that you pointed out at the top of the segment are because corporations are preparing for tariffs that have not yet gone into effect. april 2nd is the oft discussed date for new tariffs to come on from everything from steel. 90% of canadian steel is going to get hit to e.u. automobiles and everything getting more expensive as we're dealing with

sort of domestic and grocery prices continuing to be high from inflation. so investors are really calling to try to get a handle on how much of the exposure there is to tariffs, how much deficit financing there will be in this tax bill, and whether there is any good news on the horizon. and the answer is the tariffs are coming. they've been slow to roll out. and the full impact of the tariffs is not yet baked into the market. so there's more downside to come. >> and congressman i read one article that said this shows us that president trump and his administration have more tolerance for economic pain than we assumed. i think most people believe that if the markets started to go down, he would work to change that. why not this time? >> well, it's kind of mystifying to me that president trump is behaving so recklessly with respect to the stewardship of this economy. he is trying to undermine north american economic integration with these tariffs. are they on or are they off? what we do know, if he does go through with this, he will likely cause recessions in

canada and mexico and create higher prices here and disrupt manufacturing and agriculture. so that's going to be very negative for us. he's also at the same time badmouthing europe every day, a major trading partner with us, the european union, all those countries, huge amounts of investment flows between the united states and europe and back and forth. and he just seems to and he's talking about, you know, greater rapprochement with russia, which has an economy smaller than some of our states. so what i'm getting out of all this is that he just seems to be rather destructive and reckless and does not understand the consequences of these tariffs on american manufacturers and also on the farmers. it's going to have. and businesses want predictability, they want stability, they want certainty. and they're getting none of that. this is having a chilling investment, i suspect, on investment and hiring right now. and that's why there's some softening in the economy. >> so let's talk, brian, about one of the things that charlie just mentioned, which is agriculture, because it just

started today that china is imposing tariffs on many of the farm products from the united states. china is our largest overseas market for those products. what now? what's that about? >> yeah. and that's a retaliatory tariff because the united states put in a 10% tariff in the first week of february, and then another 10% last week. no exemptions on china, by the way, which were provided to mexico and canada as of the later part of last week. but this is really big for a lot of american agricultural exports. these are heartland farmers that make things like soybeans. they, you know, raise pork. they they raise pigs, they raise cows for slaughter, that then they ship the meat off to china. now you have a 10 to 15% tariff on those exact, exact types of products for what is a major export market for farmers here in the united states. so they're going to feel that pinch with perhaps even a cutoff in some cases, as buyers in china decide to go elsewhere to source their soybeans and pork and beef and what have you. so i think that this, though, it's really alarming because you consider that president trump promised tariffs of up to 60% on the

campaign trail. this is really just the beginning of that tariff war. so any sort of farmer that's watching this threat is going, okay, well, not only are those tariffs now in effect that are impacting my business now, but this could just be the beginning of a ratcheting up of those rates of tariff. >> and we know some of his biggest support came from rural areas. so henrietta, what do you think has to happen for the economy and the american people to get kind of to the other side of this trade war for the economy, for at least the messaging on the economy to be a little more predictable? >> well, i think that tariffs are sort of the true north for president trump, and they are widely supported and were a major tenant of his campaign. so what really needs to happen? you mentioned the stock market sending a message earlier. that's that's not moving the needle with the white house. you really need to see republican voters start to change their mind about these tariffs. and i'm afraid that what's going to happen is it won't occur for president trump, but it will occur for the house and senate members who are up for reelection next year from the president's own party, especially if they're asked to

codify these tariffs into their tax bill and make them permanent. those farm state senators that we're talking about and the congressmen who are all up for reelection next year are going to bear the brunt of the 15% retaliatory tariffs from china, the $86 billion worth of tariffs that canada is putting on next in a couple of weeks as a response to these tariffs. and the feedback is, you know, really problematic because there is not a bailout yet in the works for farmers. we know that in the first term, we got $28 billion worth of bailouts for the u.s. farmers, more than the entire auto bailout during the great recession. and that's something that farmers are going to have to look forward to, but they don't have yet. and i'm afraid it's going to have read out to the members in the house and senate, if not the president. >> congressman, the washington post also points out this, quote, inflation slowed in biden's final year in office, and most economists say that trump inherited a fairly strong and stable economy. trump pushed biden on the stock market inflation and overall economy,

all issues on which he's now telling voters to look the other way. so, politically speaking, are they going to be able to hang this on president biden, or as henrietta just said, are they facing a real problem come next november? >> well, look, the longer donald trump serves, the harder it is going to be for him to lay all this on on biden's lap. it's going to be really difficult, particularly now that he is engaging in this trade war in north america. look, these tariffs will they will raise prices assuming they get implemented. he's already going to implement them on steel and aluminum. we know that prices are going to go up. that will be on on donald trump. and i don't see any way that he can somehow avoid responsibility. and of course, members of congress are going home to their districts right now. and if they're if they're smart, they're going in talking to businesses. and i guarantee you they're going into manufacturers in their districts right now who are telling them

that these tariffs are going to raise costs for them because they import things in inputs that they need to make things here in america. and this is going to be bad for manufacturing. so these these these members are going to hear it. republican members are going to be the ones who are going to have to push back. when i served in congress, most republican members did support opening markets and lowering tariffs. this is a complete flip flop for many members of the republican side who have never embraced this type of af of l cio protectionism that the democrats and, of course, donald trump are best known for. >> henrietta trace and brian chung. thank you both. congressman, you're staying with me. and if all these economic tensions have you saying i need a drink, the moosehead breweries got you covered. this is the presidential pack, 1461 cans of moosehead canadian lager. in their words, one for every day

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>> republican leaders are moving ahead today to try to avoid a government shutdown on friday, taking their funding bill to the rules committee to set up a floor vote tomorrow. as punchbowl puts it, congress is walking up to the line of another political crisis once again. the stopgap spending bill would keep agencies funded through the end of september, setting up a confrontation with democrats who say the plan amounts to nothing more than a blank check for elon musk. the focus of democrats anti-administration ire. president trump trying to keep his party in line. writing on truth social. all republicans should vote yes. and no dissent. joining us now, jake sherman, co-founder of punchbowl news and an msnbc political contributor, former congressman charlie dent is back with us. so, jake, bottom line, can republicans get this done by going it alone? >> they sure think so. but i've

heard that many times before. so here, here, here's the basic. and mr. dent will know this as well. but when there's a continuing resolution, one of these stopgap funding bills this one is about is until september, the end of september. it basically includes it carries over a bunch of the former spending priorities of the former administration or the last fiscal year in this case, that is the former administration. what democrats say is that by not writing new spending bills, they're ceding authority to the administration to spend money how they want. so there's two there's two kind of situations here. if republicans could pass this thing alone in the house, then they could do whatever they want. and they could they could put whatever they want in the bill and hope that the senate democrats or republicans and democrats in the senate pick it up. if they can't and they need democratic votes, then they need to do something that democrats want. they need to give something to democrats. so if i had to listen, i've had a lot of conversations with both leaderships, the democratic and

the republican leadership this morning. i do think that they that the republicans believe they could get it through with just their own lawmakers. there's only one hard no right now, tom massie, who said he would have he would have to have a lobotomy today in order to vote for this bill. and i don't as i noted, i don't think lobotomies are still commonly practiced. so it sounds like mr. massie will be a no. >> yeah. let me ask you about that, congressman. another quote from tom massie. if it passes this week, the cr obligates trump from now until september to spend the same amounts of money on generally the same things biden spent money on in his last 15 months in office. is that the kind of fact that could blow things up for the speaker? >> well. >> that's a true statement from tom massie. and yes, he is a ha no. by the way, having served on the appropriations committee, we used to have a word for a year long continuing resolution failure. that means

congress is not doing its job. i mean, a year long continuing resolution in many respects does does kneecap the administration, particularly the pentagon. they're not going to be able to move money where they need it. that's why we have an appropriations process. and as jake has pointed out correctly, you know, i'm kind of skeptical that they have the votes to pass this thing. they will need 6 or 7 votes, seven democratic votes in the senate. they have 53. they'll need 60 votes for an appropriations bill. they don't i don't see them getting 60 there. and tom massie is a hard no. and i wouldn't be shocked if there might be 1 or 2 others. no. maybe a democrat votes for this, but i kind of doubt it. but right now, i'll tell you, this is not a good way to run the government. and this does basically continue the biden spending levels that so many of the republicans have been blasting for so long. >> and yet it does seem to be the way things go now in 2025, 2024, 2023. i can't remember how far back these crs go, but they

go back and back and back. so, jake, here's the reaction from some top democrats. okay. senator patty murray likened the continuing resolution to a slush fund. rosa delauro, the congresswoman, said it was a power grab that would allow musk and trump to steal from the american people. and then let me play what senator elissa slotkin told kristen on meet the press. the president has been deciding how. >> to. >> spend the money. >> any way he. >> wants, even. >> when we have a. >> budget that. >> both democrats and republicans voted on. that's a constitutional issue, right? everyone knows congress has the power of the purse. so i just until i see some assurances that whatever we pass next week is going to ensure that the money is spent the way congress intends it, i'm going to i'm going to withhold my vote. >> so reality check, jake, do democrats hold real cards? how much power do they have here?

>> a lot. if republicans can't get to 217 or 216, depending on what the numbers are in the house, they democrats hold real cards. now, there's a lot of mistakes that have been made by both sides here. mike johnson it was a questionable decision for him to place this government funding deadline in march, just a couple of months into this administration, which he's you know, he's trying to pass this big reconciliation bill with tax cuts and spending cuts. there was no reason except to protect his speakership that he put it in march. that's number one. number two, democrats, i would say they would argue, i'll just tell you that. but they in my estimation, democrats have not had a unified ask that that puts republicans in a tough spot. so they've been in negotiations. democrats have tried to get republicans to insert things in the bill, but it's things like limiting how donald trump could spend money that's never. that's donald trump is never going to sign anything that puts any limitations on his power. so there hasn't been any real kind of appealing things for

democrats to try to stick in the bill. so i think they've misplayed their hand just a little bit there. not much. but yes, they they have real cards. if they have if republicans don't have the votes. and i'll just say one thing. if this bill passes the house and gets to the senate on on tuesday night, wednesday, and they have two days until a shutdown and republicans and the house is going to be out of town, democrats are going to their retreat in virginia. the senate is going to have to find a way to pass this, because they're not going to shut down the government with the house out of town. and i think there's going to they're going to have to find seven senate democrats to pass this thing. i think it will be a tough vote for the virginia and maryland delegations in the senate, which have a lot of federal workers. they don't want a government shutdown. i think it will be difficult for a lot of these folks. but again, we are this is no way to run the government. we are in a deadline week. the government runs out of funding friday, and we're only getting to business here on tuesday. >> jake sherman, former congressman charlie dent to be

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community, sending flames and thick plumes of smoke into the air. nbc's erin mclaughlin is live in manheim township, which is a suburb of lancaster. i mean, when you look at those pictures, it's kind of remarkable that no one was killed. what else do we know about this crash? >> well. >> chris, let me just set the scene here to show you sort of. what happened to my. left is the airport here in lancaster. we understand that the single engine plane had just taken off. flew over this way. you see that line of trees right in the distance. >> there with. >> the yellow. >> and green tape? well, it appears that the. >> aircraft clipped. >> those trees. >> before crashing in. >> that parking lot. >> right over that way. you see there, the pink and the yellow tape starting multiple fires. in fact, you can see one of the cars completely charred. now, five people, according to officials, were on board that plane, all five taken to the hospital. we understand from one

of the hospitals that two left the hospital last night. really remarkable. no one else was injured. first responders say that they were a split second away from complete disaster. take a listen. >> at that plane. stayed in. >> the air for another. >> half a second. it had been into the second or third floor of. >> a multi-story structure. >> that housed. >> a number. >> of. >> apartments. >> now, lots of talk today about the door on what has been identified as a beechcraft bonanza single engine plane, according to audio from air traffic control, one of the passengers on board the plane notified air traffic control that the door was open and that the plane would be returning to the airport to land. that, of course, didn't happen. the crash happened. instead. it's unclear what role that door played in

this crash, but speaking to aviation experts, they tell me that that is not uncommon for that type of plane, for the door, because there's no pressure. remember, it's not a pressurized situation for that door to swing open and that it's very difficult if that happens, for the pilot to deal with the situation and safely land the plane. all of this, of course, is now subject to an ongoing investigation. we are waiting for an update from the ntsb, although we are not expecting that update. we understand today. chris. >> erin mclaughlin, thank you for that. and coming up on the chopping block, what federal employees in charge of food safety and disease research are now being offered if they quit. and later, the still growing concerns about the measles outbreak. a new case connected to a major u.s. airport, and what people who may have been exposed should do. >> so i could take the steak home. yep, as many butterfly shrimp as i want. you got it, kate. >> you can take home everything.

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the health and human services department have until friday to decide if they want to take a $25,000 buyout. among those who received the email offer, federal employees who inspect food, investigate disease and manage medicare and medicaid. nbc's vaughn hillyard is following this for us. i mean, is it clear that this will be effective, given that the last offer was so uncertain in the minds of a lot of employees? or will the internal pain point, including fear of getting fired anyway, be the ultimate

motivator? what are you hearing out there? >> right. this is essentially a second opportunity for federal workers to take a buyout offer and walk away from their government jobs. here, $25,000 lump sum payment is different than what the initial back in january and february offer for a delayed resignation would amounted to. but for hhs and its 80,000 employees across the cdc, nih and more than a dozen other health agencies, this is coming at a time in which the office of personnel management has promised to seek from departments and agencies a massive workforce reduction in the months ahead and plans from the government agency heads on how to accomplish that. and, you know, i talked to a great number of federal workers back in early february who did not take the initial buyout offer and found themselves terminated one week later. those were probationary employees because they wanted to

keep their government jobs, but they didn't take the government up on their offer. they ended up losing their job anyways and with no severance included. so the question here is across hhs is how many employees will seek to take this? it's not just career or senior officials, but also employees that have responded to the federal workforce and made there a place of employment. the hhs and i think that that is where the questions here, coming at a time in which there are concerns, obviously, around the bird flu, but also over the weekend, the nbc news learning that the cdc intends to study the link between a link between vaccines and autism. though hundreds of studies over the years have consistently found that there is no correlation or link between vaccines and autism, yet, the cdc is going to begin initiating new research to look at a potential link. anyways. really kind of calls into question who in the hhs workforce, cdc and nih will remain in these positions, and who could potentially be brought in to take part in these sorts of

research efforts on behalf of secretary kennedy and others like dan weldon at cdc, who have been brought in under this trump administration to bring in a new era of health governance in the executive branch. >> important questions. vaughn hillyard, thanks. we've got some breaking news now in the case of the menendez brothers, who have been in prison for nearly three decades, for the 1989 killing of their parents. nbc's camila bernal joins me now from la. i understand the da and l.a. county just made the announcement. tell us about it. >> hey, chris. yeah. >> what he's saying is. >> that he is going. >> to allow the judges initiation of the resentencing to go forward, but withdrawing the da's petition or the motion for this to be a resentencing hearing. so it's a little bit complicated. i first want you to listen to the da and what he said, and then i'll explain. >> prepared to go forward with. the court's initiated resentencing proceedings and

look forward to. a resentencing hearing on that motion. however. >> we are. >> asking the court. >> to withdraw. >> the previous. district attorney's motion for resentencing because we believe there are legitimate reasons and the. interests of justice justifies. that withdrawal. >> and so this may not be good news for the menendez brothers, because once that petition is withdrawn, it now falls in the hands of the judge. it's unclear if the judge will decide to move forward with that resentencing hearing or not. right now, it is scheduled for march 20th and 21st. but now that the da is withdrawing his motion for that resentencing, it will 100% be up to the judge whether or not he moves forward. now, the da saying that he is withdrawing the previous da's motion because he says that the brothers have not fully accepted responsibility for their crimes. what he's saying is that their argument has always been self-defense, not necessarily the sexual abuse part of this. so because they're essentially

defense is self-defense, and they have not admitted to lying about that, he says that that's why he has to pull back this motion for resentencing. he says, though, that if the brothers admit to having lied about self-defense, then he would reconsider filing a motion for them to be resentenced. so it's not necessarily good news for the menendez brothers. we'll have to wait and see what the judge decides. but at the moment, the da says that they are not likely going to, in his words, be able to have this resentencing when it comes to being something that the da is pushing forward because they have not accepted responsibility in his opinion. chris. >> camila bernal, thank you. coming up, dhs crackdown, what the agency is doing now to find out who might be leaking information to the media. you're information to the media. you're watching chris jansing here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need,

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could miss. and if your identity is stolen, a us based restoration specialist will work restoration specialist will work to fix it. guara it's time to feed the dogs real food in the right amount. a healthy weight can help dogs live a longer and happier life. the farmer's dog makes weight management easy with fresh food pre-portioned for your dog's needs. it's an idea whose time has come. department of homeland security is blaming lower than expected migrant arrest numbers on leaks to the press. employees, they claim, tipping off people about where raids are happening. and now dhs is using lie detector tests to look for alleged leakers. nbc senior homeland security correspondent julia ainsley is following this for us. what more can you tell us about this, julia? >> well. >> chris, look, in the past or so. >> far. >> we. >> should say the cities that ice has. >> targeted for. >> these immigration operations. >> when the details have come

out in the media, they've been broad. we've known the name of the city. chicago, for example. denver, colorado. aurora. more recently, here in the northern virginia suburbs of d.c, there's never been a time where they've named actual people and addresses and times of day it's these operations. but even still, this is what secretary of homeland security kristi noem and trump's borders are. tom homan have been blaming for when they go out with a list of 100 people they want to arrest and they're only able to find, like in the case of last week in virginia, about 17 of those on their target list. and so what they're doing is they're looking for leakers because they think that the fact that these are leaking out or allowing the people who they want to arrest to go into hiding, and they're doing that by doing a polygraph test, of course, that's a lie detector where you hook someone up and ask them questions. you've been told that these polygraph tests have started. this is something that noem said she would do, and it has started across dhs to try to find anyone who's been leaking information on these. and, chris, i have to say they have done polygraph tests in the past. i remember when i first started covering in

2014, there was an issue where border patrol agents may have been corrupted by cartels, and they needed to polygraph to make sure that the people who are working for them were loyal and not going to be accepting bribes from mexican cartels. but this is wholly different. they're using this now, not to screen new employees or to test to make sure that their integrity is intact, but rather that they haven't leaked some pretty basic information to the media. and i'm told that in some cases, it's even made some people quit their jobs, not because they themselves were hiding the fact that they leaked, but purely on the principle that they felt that this environment had just become too hostile for them to work in. chris. >> julia ainsley, thank you for that. a palestinian activist who played a key role in columbia university's protests against the war in gaza, has now been arrested by ice. it is the first publicly known deportation effort under president trump's promised crackdown on student protests. mahmoud khalil, a graduate student at columbia until this past december, is a permanent resident with a green

card, according to his lawyer. border czar tom homan was asked about it earlier today. >> we're going to send a. >> strong message to anybody here on a foreign visa that, you know, you're given a great a right to come to the greatest country on earth to study in our colleges. but when you come here to study, you got to obey the laws of this country. you got to obey the requirements of that visa to be lawful while you're here. >> joining me now is nbc's rehema ellis and former u.s. attorney professor at the university of alabama school of law and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. rehema, there is growing outrage over this arrest, with a protest scheduled in new york city just a couple of hours from now. what more do we know about this situation? >> what we know is it's what everybody here on this campus is talking about. a student just walked by our live shot location a moment ago, and he said those very words. it's on everybody's mind. and he said that the student council had sent an email to everyone. undergraduate student. i'm i'm guessing

telling them about different protocol, about phone numbers to call, how they can contact people if something comes their way. i should also tell you that other students we talked to would not agree to talk on camera because they said they had foreign visas and they were actually apprehensive and afraid to talk. just a short while ago, there was a statement that the president put out on truth social, and he's basically saying something to the effect that this is what he had promised to do to deport people who were not in compliance with what they wanted them to do. and the statement says, essentially, that this is the first of many. he says, we will find, apprehend and deport these terrorist sympathizers from our country, never to return again. to your point, there are protests that are scheduled for downtown later today. there's a faculty press conference that's scheduled for later. and i should tell you that behind me right now, you can't see the long line. it's lowered or diminished. but from

time to time, as students are trying to enter the campus, there is the gates are closed and they are preventing from entering unless they show their student id. as you know, last spring there was a huge protest here. and as a result of that, you can't get on those grounds now unless you can identify that you have the authority to be here. chris. >> rehema. ellis, thank you for that, joyce. i want to play a little bit more of what the border czar said earlier today about this arrest. >> can you. >> deport a. >> legal immigrant? >> absolutely. we can. i mean, did he violate the terms of his visa? did he violate the terms of his residency here? you know, committing crimes, you know, attacking israeli students. locking down buildings, destroying property? absolutely. any resident alien who commits a crime is eligible for deportation. >> do you think that is a strong legal argument, joyce, in this case, or even potentially future

cases? so while. it's true that most people who are permanent legal residents who you see in deportation proceedings, they're. >> there because they've committed. >> a. >> crime. >> there's no indication here that this individual has been charged. you know, mr. homan. >> and others. >> have used a lot of language that. >> suggests perhaps he engaged in material support of terrorism, which is a federal felony. but we've not seen charges. and you would expect to see those charges brought by the government before deportation proceedings began. if the government, in fact, thought it had evidence to substantiate that, as opposed to an exercise of first amendment rights. i mean. >> let's just state the obvious, which is that people can protest what they saw as a humanitarian crisis that was unfolding in gaza without supporting hamas. so where does this go from here?

well. >> that's exactly right, chris. and that's an important distinction to draw. and we've already seen civil rights groups, including jewish groups, coming forward, saying this is a dangerous moment when they begin to come for people on the basis of their speech. we need to all pay attention because it's a dangerous moment. i expect that we'll see his lawyers go to court and ask that he be released. it sounds they've said he's in louisiana. there's an ice processing facility in oakdale, sort of a largish facility. it's likely that he's there and they'll ask a judge to order that he be released. >> so if you are here as a permanent resident on a green card, do you have different free speech rights than you or i? >> no you don't. the first amendment in fact, covers even people who aren't citizens. and so the line here is the line between exercising rights and criminality. and it can be a

finely tuned sort of a calculus in a situation like this. as mr. homan points out, it's possible that there were violations. for instance, it could have been possible that there was an illegal entry to parts of the campus. but the point here is, until there are charges, then it's inappropriate to bring these sorts of immigration proceedings. >> joyce vance, always good to have you on the program. thanks, joyce. and coming up, overwhelming stress, panic attacks, rapid weight loss. federal employees across multiple government agencies explain how their jobs being so insecure is causing their health to suffer. stay close. more chris jansing reports just after chris jansing reports just after this. you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. that's why pnc bank strives to be boring with your money. the pragmatic, calculated kind of boring.

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mean, what was the reaction do you think about ice coming to knock on your front door. >> for president trump's. >> first 100 days? alex wagner

travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you. >> there on january? >> i was there on. january 6th. >> did it surprise you that you were fired, given how resolutely nonpartisan you have been? >> and for. >> more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast. trumpland with alex wagner. >> it is good to be back with you on this second hour of chris jansing reports at this hour. tariff tensions, how the markets are responding after what president trump said or maybe more accurately, did not say about the possibility of a recession. so what's the plan? house republicans working on a bill to avoid a government shutdown ahead of friday's looming deadline. but will they have the votes? and the new case of measles just confirmed in maryland, who may have been exposed, including people at dulles international