gas, nightsticks and law enforcement ready to physically attack them. the images from bloody sunday shocked the nation and led to the passing of the voting rights act. and as we honor those marchers, let us learn from their sacrifice and remember that equality. equality is always worth fighting for. and on that note, i wish you a very good night. be sure to follow us on social media. all of our handles are on your screen, but for now, i am signing off from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying up late with me here in dc. >> i'll see. >> you at. >> the end of tomorrow. >> all right, folks, good to see you this evening. jen is on a well-deserved vacation. she'll be back with you again next monday. don't worry. but, look,

we have a lot to get into tonight. and i just wanted to start by showing you some headlines from the past couple of days. this is from the new york times. trump declines to rule out recession as tariffs begin to bite. here's one from forbes. stock market comeback erased. dow sinks as trump says don't watch the stock market. oh, trust me, we're watching to that point. here's cnbc dow tumbles nearly 900 points nasdaq suffers worst day since 2022 as recession fears erupt. here's the daily beast trump boosts message telling americans to shut up about egg prices. okay, then we'll do that. and here's the washington post. companies warn investors that doj's federal cuts might hurt businesses. you think? really? so that's basically where we are right now. markets falling off a cliff and unelected billionaire continuing to gut the federal

government. and donald trump essentially telling americans to shut up and take it. and given all of that, given everything they're doing, is it really any wonder why we're seeing some energy on the ground out there across america? is it really any big secret why big crowds are turning up at rallies and at town halls across the country? congressman mark pocan held a town hall in his district in wisconsin over the weekend. he invited people in the neighboring district, represented by a republican, to join in. and in a town with just over a thousand residents, hundreds turned out to see the congressman speak. bernie sanders hit the road this weekend as well, for what he's calling a stop oligarchy tour. he drew a crowd of over 4000 in kenosha, wisconsin, on friday night. on saturday, he took his roadshow to altoona, wisconsin, and in a town of less than 10,000 residents, almost 3000 came out to see the senator speak. and later in the day, he

headed to a suburb outside of detroit, where about 9000 people, 9000 people, people showed up for a rally. and here's the kicker each stop was in a swing district, represented by a republican. senator elizabeth warren got into the action as well, addressing a huge crowd at the texas state capitol in austin this weekend. so clearly, people are turning out and they're turning out big for these events. and i want you to take a listen to the kinds of messages they're hearing. they were. >> telling the. >> american people and the. world that instead of a government of the people, by the people and for the people, we have now become a government of the billionaire class, for. >> the. >> billionaire class, and. >> by the billionaire. >> class. >> donald and elon. >> are afraid of people who won't bend the knee. they are afraid of pushback. and we are here to push back.

>> yes. >> did you vote to rip health care coverage from millions of people? >> no. >> look, folks, you know elizabeth warren and you know bernie sanders and i, we won't agree on a lot if anything. but i do recognize a groundswell when i see one and when the federal government does this much damage, people get angry. and when people get angry, there's real political consequences and opportunity. the question now is, how are democrats going to apply those consequences and use that opportunity? joining me now at the table, senior adviser to bernie sanders, faiz shakir, my partner, my friend from the weekend, symone sanders. you saw that big smile on my face. yes, she paid me for that. and former senior adviser to house speaker paul ryan and john boehner,

brendan buck, it is this is i've been excited about this grouping all day long because as you could tell from the lead in, there's a lot of the political dynamics married up with the opportunistic ones that i think i want to start with forbes with you, because these events with the senator, we were talking a little bit before, they're growing this almost like campaign style and feel to them in terms of the energy that folks have coming out. tell us what that's like and what you're hearing specifically from people in a red district. presumably not everyone in the room is a democrat. right? so what are you hearing and seeing out there? >> well. >> senator has now hit five. >> districts, congressional districts that have been. >> held, currently. held by republicans. there are. >> purple districts, but held by republicans. and each. >> of them, we are out drawing thousands. >> thousands and thousands. >> of. >> people out during our peak of 2020. >> so we ran for president in 2020. and the numbers here. >> right now are higher. >> than we've ever seen before. >> and it's.

>> telling you something. i think in my mind, i have. >> bernie sanders holding a stethoscope. up to the. >> democratic party. >> and saying. >> hey, listen to this. >> the heartbeat. >> of america out there. >> people are angry and frustrated. >> and the musk takeover. >> of government. >> i promise. >> you, is top of mind. >> for. so many people. >> they find it. >> abhorrent of their. >> values. >> and they are urging democrats to. >> stand up. >> and do something. >> and fight for it. >> is it, symone, do you think it's just the musk takeover of the government? we've had this ongoing conversation on the weekend. there is a clear grassroots push and pull that's going on here. the push is by the grassroots trying to pull elected officials to hear what they're having to say. is it more off of trump's actions and or musk at this point? how do you how do you read this moment? >> well, i guess i would say donald trump's actions and elon musk's actions are one and the same. you know, the president keeps saying, oh, i've delegated to elon. and elon is like, oh, the president is in charge. so he does have to own what musk is doing. and i would like to

remind everybody that russell vote is actually the architect of all of it. i think what senator sanders and other democrat democrats were out in full force this weekend, which, you know, you know, i've been very hard on my democratic friends over the last couple of weeks, i would argue, rightfully so. and i was glad to see the democrats out and about talking to their members, talking to the voters to hear from them directly. i think what senator sanders is tapping into, though, is a frustration that people have and a want to be heard. one of the things that i've and you know, he launched his tour in my hometown, north omaha, nebraska, and i just would like to note he he did this thing where he asked people to yell out what frustrated them. and let me tell you, bernie sanders, bernie sanders, i know he is not trying to have a little chit chat at his rally, but he did. he he told people to shout out, and then he responded to them. and to me that says the temperature at this moment is the people feel like they're not being heard. now you can have qualms about, you know, his crowd seemed mostly white. that's fine. you know, bernie, people are coming out to hear bernie sanders in that capacity. black and brown crowds might come out somewhere else, although the

black women will say, we voted for, not donald trump, so don't call us. but there is something there. >> we did. >> our work. you know, black won't be like, well, we did our work 92% checking in here, but there's something happening there. i don't know if it will translate to democratic votes writ large, but it does say that people need to pay attention. >> so brennan, on that last point, because, you know, we don't need to build this up into something more than it is at this point in the political cycle, which we're which we're in, a lot of people don't realize that big elections this november for both democrats and republicans in new jersey and virginia. so there are some lessons to be learned from what both of these fine people are saying. you're looking at this from the gop perspective. you're talking to leaders in the party, current and former. what are they saying about what they're hearing? they've been instructed, the elected ones, at least, not to hold town hall meetings anymore. that's a boneheaded idea from my perspective, because this is a moment to lean in and justify

the action as opposed to run away from them. where do you think republicans are right now, and what do you see as at this moment for them, a vulnerability, big or small? >> yeah. well, i. >> think it's important, as you did. >> to separate. >> two things. one. >> the sort of long. >> term midterm. >> you know. >> politics, but. also the shorter term. >> they're trying. >> to pass. >> an agenda. >> and then the political. >> environment in which they're. >> trying to pass it makes a big difference. we know. and you asked where they're most vulnerable. they've considered enormous. cuts to medicaid. >> which i. >> think is a. >> huge problem. >> for republicans right now, not. >> just. >> because it's. politically potentially unpopular, but because i don't think that they can pass it. so we have a situation where the. >> majority or the large. >> share of. >> the spending cuts they want to do are in medicaid. and certainly in the house anyway. >> you have a bunch. >> of states and. >> senators who are. >> never in a million. >> years going. >> to. >> walk. >> themselves into. that trap. let's talk about let's talk about west virginia. >> where more than a quarter. >> of the state's population is on medicaid. do you think the two gop senators from west virginia are going to vote for

that to gut medicaid? they're not. so you're going to end up in a. situation where you have a bunch. >> of conservatives who. >> are saying, why aren't we cutting more and. >> a bunch of. >> sort of moderate or senators. who are saying, hold on a second, we're not doing that. you're going to make nobody happy. >> and that's. >> the. worst thing. and we could see a situation where we kind of. >> get stuck. >> i think the house and the senate are about to get stuck, and you. >> have you start. >> a narrative where you can't actually get anything done. >> where all this other. >> chaos is going on. it's not a good environment. for legislating. that's that's actually an excellent point. i was having that that particular conversation today about the not in terms of being stuck because that's the end point, but in this in this confluence of events coming between the house and the senate republicans and the realities on the ground in places like west virginia versus some other places in the country where they may be a little more free to have this. oh, yes. let's do let's do a little dance with medicare and medicaid. >> in addition to some of. >> the districts that brendan. >> was talking about. you take. >> david valadao, a republican. >> member of congress of. >> congress, who's in california, the central valley.

>> tons and tons of medicaid. >> recipients. >> maybe the highest. >> percentage of medicaid. >> recipients in that district. ken calvert is right next door, another republican. huge numbers. >> mike johnson's. >> own district. >> in louisiana. >> huge percentages. >> so. >> you. >> know. obviously medicaid and all. if it does, well, what does it do? nursing home child care. >> these are. >> things that are essential. >> to people's lives. these people. >> have working. >> at mcdonald's on medicaid. >> you're working. >> at amazon. >> in your on medicaid, you're working. >> at tesla in california, and. >> you're. >> on medicaid, right? >> i mean, so these are working poor. >> and this is a lifeline. >> for them. >> so in addition to medicaid though, then you've got musk. >> saying openly. >> i'm going to cut. >> social security. offices all. >> over. >> this country. i'm going. >> to cut veterans. >> offices all over this country. we're underplaying. >> how much. >> that is doing, because. >> this is a different way. >> of dismantling those. >> essential government services, national park services. >> all over the country. >> just killing. >> off them. >> not by just. >> the. >> budget slash by. >> saying there's no people to work there. right. >> it's so interesting because you would think, just given the numbers that you both have laid out. and the reality is it's

like, well, how are republicans seriously considering going on with cutting medicaid? but i i've come to the conclusion that a lot of people in the country, they are not they don't believe what we're saying is actually happening. they don't actually think they're going to cut medicaid and they're going to cut social security. as a matter of fact, when we talked about this on our show this weekend, all of the comments, you don't want to believe the comments on twitter. sorry, guys, but i do believe what they say on facebook and instagram. the people in my email inbox. those are real people, more real than the bots on twitter or the site formerly known as twitter. and people are like, you are lying. that is not true. that is, don't lie. these these, these democrats and michael steele are lying. and i'm like, oh my goodness y'all. y'all y'all don't oh okay. you think we're making it up. they are serious elon musk did an interview today on fox. and he's like yeah these entitlements i mean we really want to cut them. we got to do. >> one i. don't think i don't. >> think medicaid. >> is sacred. i think you probably can. >> i'm a conservative. i think there's probably. >> some room. >> to cut, but i don't. think they're going to be able to execute. >> that's my point. >> i don't think they're. >> going to be executed.

>> be able to execute. >> these sweeping. >> cuts that they're talking. >> about, and they're going to have a bunch of members who. >> say, this. >> is our one opportunity to cut spending. >> and. >> then the political reality. >> is going to set in, and they might not be able to get much of anything done. and that's the key thing right there that the political reality is what is being defied and denied by a lot of republicans right now. and it will be those common sense republicans who kind of jerk the party back into that reality, more so than i think they realize. everyone stay put. we got a little bit more fun we want to get into because we got to talk about elon musk's terrible, horrible that no good, very, very bad, bad, bad day that he had. we're back in just 60s. >> shopping online comes with digital threats, so turn on nordvpn. and encrypt your online traffic. get 72% off nordvpn do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had

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>> the work is making you see clearly elon musk has had a rough few days. tesla dealerships have become the target of protests across the country, and its stock price has taken a big nosedive. just today, tesla's stock price dropped by 15%. they're going to be some angry shareholders there. that made it the worst day for the company in almost five years. twitter also had a bad day, and that's saying something folks with massive outages that musk blamed on a cyberattack that originated from ukraine. yes, sure. and increasingly, americans are just fed up with this guy. polls consistently show musk's approval rating underwater, and apparently even some in trump's white house are fed up, too. in a meeting last week, trump cabinet officials reportedly clashed with musk over his approach in overhauling the federal government. and with all of this outrage surrounding elon musk coming from everywhere, all

at once, democrats see an opportunity here. more and more, they're putting him in front of center, front and center in their messaging and of course, in attack ads across the country. >> who's going to pay the price? us, our jobs lost, our grocery prices up, our housing unaffordable, our benefits cut all so billionaires can reap the benefits. >> elon musk is out of control. and now the power hungry. >> billionaire is unloading. >> millions to buy the wisconsin supreme court. he knows maga politician brad schimel is for sale. >> that simone and brendan are back with me at the table so fast. here's the deal, i get it. i mean, in some sense, he's an easy target. musk is. but i want to go back to where simone was at the beginning of the last conversation, because we're kind of aligned in that space. i

think if democrats solely focus their their ire on musk, you miss the moment. you miss the mark in the moment. i think this should be a broader approach in your advertising. that's good, that's good. but that's not the end game. the end game is donald trump. >> yeah. and making donald trump own. some of these decisions. >> right now. >> of course. musk is. >> his, you know, his his heat shield in some ways. >> but it is. >> also. >> true that elon musk is. >> spending money. >> in these wisconsin supreme court races. he is the one slashing social security offices all over the place. by the way, he stands to. >> make $55. >> billion from tesla. a company's racking right now, 55 billion. i mean, before we had ceo pay packages of 100 million, that was obscene, 55 billion. so, you know, he is a huge figure in the republican orbit right now. we shouldn't undermine undertook that. >> but you're right that. >> at the end of the day. donald trump the buck stops with him. he's the one who's making these decisions. >> he's empowering him. and you. >> sense now increasingly in the press. there's more of a rift.

those suggestions of marco rubio's upset that sean duffy. >> is. >> upset at him. >> even donald trump, i have to. >> even steve bannon, of course, maybe the loudest angry at him. i don't mind a little bit of the civil war playing out. >> all right. so on that front, simone yellen was on on tv. >> today i saw it. i'm like what is he whining about. >> it was on fox business. so let's have a little listening on what elon had to say over at fox business. there's a massive amount of fraud of basically. >> people submitting. >> social security numbers for social security. >> benefits, unemployment. >> small business administration loans. and. medical where those are, those are those are fake social security numbers. there's where they've stolen somebody else's social security number. and we're trying to put a stop to all of that. and that's the number which is estimated to. >> be on the order of. >> 10% of federal expenditures. >> if it was that easy. it was that social security number that

would be a black market. >> and that'd be a black, blue, red, white and blue market on this. >> okay, joe, everybody and juan would all be getting. >> every last one. >> of them would be rich, would be a multicultural grab bag. >> i'd have look, i'd have an operation in the back behind me and said. >> no, you wouldn't, because you would be legal, michael steele. >> but that's the point. how does he know that when doge has been on the ground doing this for how long and doing it improperly and incorrectly? >> michael, they're at a spreadsheet. >> at. >> a computer? >> this is true. they had a spreadsheet, but. >> also social security. >> the congressional. research service has. >> told us this for many years. undocumented people contribute. >> into social. >> security and don't receive benefits. >> in fact, social security. >> reports a surplus every year from money coming in from undocumented. they are not there. there's no waste, fraud, abuse. >> who have died, who have social security, like my father who died in 2017. my mother gets his benefits because she is his beneficiary on the paperwork. but when you have people who don't understand how the united states government works because

they they were they are freshly here and not keyed into what's going on inside the government. elon musk got in south africa. >> right. >> i say. >> sincerely, i admire elon. >> musk's ambition. >> but he. >> is a person. >> who. >> just seemingly woke up one day. >> and. >> said he's going to do politics. >> yes, and he needs an advisor. he acts to make a lot of money. >> he acts like. >> he's the first person who. >> realized that there's. >> fraud or waste in government. there are inspector general reports, and gao reports this. >> hi that. >> i've outlined these things for years. and he's. >> like, did. >> you know this? yes. all of us. >> were. >> aware of that. but there isn't. >> like a button. >> you press. >> and it goes away. and so that's the like, let's take this a little more seriously. let's be a little more thoughtful about what we're doing. and so. >> you. >> know, on the substance, but then also on the politics. he's causing a huge problem. >> for his boss. >> so on that point, is there a point where he becomes more toxic than donald trump can stand? certainly. and i think. >> donald trump actually has. >> a pretty good. >> political radar. >> like if he. realizes that

this is i'm losing. more than i'm gaining. >> from here, i think. >> he'll cut him loose. really quickly. i mean. >> he can't entirely cut him loose because he does. depend on his money a lot for political reasons. >> but he's musk is going. >> through this in. >> this like maximum. >> pain. >> minimal gains, firing. >> people, creating. >> all this chaos and the. >> budget savings. >> he's actually talking about. >> this is tiny. >> he's not balancing the budget. >> any money. they haven't saved. >> any money. i just make one point because i know you're about to go. so the point that you started with about why all the focus on elon musk. right. and we always talk about kind of some of these similarities between what's happening now and russia in 2000 when putin first came to power. we don't know any of the oligarchs names in russia, but we know putin, right. and so the problem, i think, with elevating and continuing to elevate elon musk so much in the messaging is that you you miss the forest for one tree. elon musk is not the goal. republicans writ large. i would like to i don't understand why these messaging and the messaging democrats are not making. mike johnson and republicans in the house and senate look like fools who are

being pushed around by unelected billionaires that woke up one day and just decided to do politics. like that's some of the stuff. >> so back to you on on the messaging piece and to what brennan was saying, there are vulnerabilities there. how do you take advantage of them? >> let me let me remind everyone of donald trump. and i'm obviously not his biggest fans here. and i watched him hundreds of hundreds of events this cycle. and i promise you, as someone who watched a lot of those he never talked about put me in office and i'm going to slash the hell out of this federal government. i'm going to cut medicaid to the bone, put me in office, and it's going down. i'm bringing my arsonist. we're we're shutting down. this federal government never made those claims, never argued for them. now, maybe a lot of people feel hoodwinked and bamboozled. he. in fact, when project 2025 laid this out in a blueprint, what did he do? we all remember he said, not mine. that is not my plan. and that's not my proposal. well, it was a lie. it was a lie. >> so we know that. we know that. so then what is the response to that? >> they need to put the ads out.

and i think democrats have to be disciplined in their messaging. i will say they have been dogged on the social security front and the and more recently, the medicaid front. they've been very clear about that. i don't think voters wonder where they stand on that. i do think taking the highlighting the stories of real people that are affected, that's going to make a difference and remind people, look, social security has never missed a payment in 80 years. and because of what this administration is doing next month, people might not get their checks. >> right there. i got so much more that we could hit on this one. so, so much more fast. simone. brendan. thank you guys. just got my juices going here. coming up, we might be headed toward another government shutdown. and i'm going to talk about that with the person who reminded us last week that none of this is normal. congresswoman melanie stansbury standing by. and she joins me next. >> hi, grandma. i played baseball today. >> oh that's great. >> what position did. >> you play? >> first base.

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>> can sign and make official. get started at trusted will.com and make it count. >> okay, stop me if you've heard this one before. government is going to shut down on friday night. if republicans can't get their act together right? right now there is an internal struggle going on for house speaker mike johnson as he's trying to pass a short term spending bill. if democrats hold the line, johnson can only afford to lose one republican vote. and the problem is some members of his caucus no longer see government shutdowns as a problem. but actually the point they see shutdowns like they see

the doge project from the trump and musk team. it's not about efficiency of government. it is about elimination of government. and johnson shouldn't expect democrats to bail him out. the ranking member of the house appropriations committee, rosa delauro, called the bill a power grab for the white house. that further allows unchecked billionaire elon musk and president trump to steal from the american people. and over in the senate, the vice chair of the appropriations committee, patty murray, called it a slush fund continuing resolution that would give donald trump and elon musk more power over federal spending. joining me now is congresswoman melanie stansbury of new mexico. she's the ranking democrat on the doge subcommittee. you might remember her appearance at trump's joint address to congress when she held up a sign that said, this is not normal. it is not. in fact, it was a great moment for me coming down the aisle.

president turned to you. you held up the sign. he looked at the sign, turned away, and never turned back towards the democrats. you sent the message. this is not normal. the process, though, that we're going through is every budget cycle we get to this. oh, the budget the country is about to shut down. the government is about to shut down. the conversations going on right now in the house are real over this. cr do you think the democrats are going to hold the line on this one? >> i hope so, i mean, i think our leadership's been very clear. we are not voting for this budget. and we held the line two weeks ago on the budget resolution. and i anticipate that we will again, i mean, listen, these guys do not know how to govern. we've seen this time and time again, especially since this current speaker took office. you know, he as you said, this job is like herding cats. but i think in this case, it's like herding a pack of wild

hyenas and cats and congress people to try to get them to vote on anything. but, you know, it's very obvious that trump doesn't want to shut down either. i mean, you know, the economy is in freefall. the tens of thousands of people have been fired from the federal government. the stock market is in freefall. and he's been very clear on his social media that he doesn't want republicans to vote against it, either. and i think at the end of the day, this is trump's party. and so i think they'll get in line. >> that's an interesting point, because it relates back to what we were talking about in the last couple of segments with the panel, and that is the political weight of this moment, the gravity, the political gravity that comes from it in terms of which party is hurt by a shutdown. typically, the party in power and even in the republicans case, when they're not in power, the shutdown, because of their their actions can can bite them. how do you

how do you message a, you know, against the republicans on this? and how do you think they message to get around the sting of a shutdown? >> well, first of all, let's hope there is no shutdown. i don't think a shutdown is good for the american people. it's not good for our economy. and we need our federal services to be funded. that's why we're not okay with what elon musk is doing slashing these programs that americans need. but the republicans have a trifecta. they control the white house, they control the senate, and they control the house. and if these guys cannot get a budget across the finish line, that's on them. that is not on democrats. so they need to get it together. they need to figure out how to govern. they need to figure out how to herd their own cats. and democrats are not going to vote, normalize their behavior, and support what they're trying to do in this continuing resolution, as well as the budget resolution that they're trying to pass afterwards. and that's the one that we are particularly just a

hell no on. right. this is the one that's going to slash medicaid. it's going to give tax breaks to billionaires at the expense of working families. it's going to gut food assistance and housing programs. and we just will not abide by that. >> so elon musk was on fox news business earlier today being asked about his slashing of government cut and government spending and taking, you know, an ax to the government. take a listen to what he had to say. our savings at this point exceed $4 billion a day. so it's pretty significant. >> do you think you'll wind. >> up getting. >> to $1 trillion? yeah. >> of savings. >> i mean. >> unless someone unless we're unless we're stopped, we will get to $1 trillion of savings. first off, i contend he fundamentally doesn't have a clue how the federal government operates, how it funds itself, where the money goes. but do you

think he has or there is a political will in congress to stop him at any point in this process? >> yeah, i mean, i think congress is already trying to rein ■hi in. you know, last time i saw you, i was talking about the secretly our colleagues were sharing with us on the floor and in the hallways that they're not happy about what's going on. and since then, elon musk actually spent a day on the hill, and republicans made it very clear to him that if he wants to continue to dismantle these programs and restructure these federal agencies, he has to come to congress to do that because they're breaking the law. so i think that the republicans are already reining him in. and, you know, look at the reporting in the washington post and the new york times over the weekend. i mean, the cabinet itself is saying, listen, this guy doesn't have the authority to do this, and trump's given him carte blanche and he's running wild and he's doing things that are making it ungovernable for even the trump administration. so i think, you know, he's losing in

congress. he's losing in the courts. he's losing in the administration, and he's losing in our communities. and it's very clear to me, i think as the days are going on, you know, i think all of us initially were like, okay, well, if they're going to make the government more efficient and they're going to try to do some things that make things work more effectively and modernize, we should be on board with that. right? like that's something that americans want is a government that works. but i think it's becoming more and more clear every single day that this is grift. i mean, what these guys are doing is dismantling agencies and then giving themselves contracts to rebuild something else in its place. you know, as the faa the other day, we're hearing now that they want to monetize hud payments and basically use cryptocurrency for the mortgage markets that are backed by the federal government. >> that's a smart idea, right? >> i mean, i mean, so it's like every day there's another new business idea that comes out of these so-called efficiencies. and, you know, his supposed

findings, i find totally laughable because he has yet to even provide a basic spreadsheet that even adds, so where are these so-called savings? is he saying that's coming from the tens of thousands of americans that he fired the teachers, the veterans, the military? those aren't savings, those are american lives. >> so on that doge committee just, you know, just put a microscope on that back door because that's that's where the grift and the theft is taking place. all those things that he's putting inside the system that you don't see on the front end, trust me. i really appreciate you. congresswoman melanie stansbury, thank you so much for being with us. up next, another good day for russia as putin's endgame and trump's endgame appear to be fully aligned. yes they are. i'll aligned. yes they are. i'll explain when patients who have sensitive teeth but also want whiter teeth they have to make a choice one versus the other. sensodyne clinical white provides two shades whiter teeth as well as providing 24/7 sensitivity protection.

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troops and supply lines. so the ukrainians clearly need this aid. and now trump is making it even harder to get it back. trump had been pursuing a mineral deal with ukraine, as we all know, as a condition to restore aid. but as nbc news reported this weekend, trump has privately made clear to aides that a signed mineral deal won't be enough to restart aid and intelligence sharing. so the question now is if the mineral deal isn't enough, what is? according to nbc, trump also wants to see a change in president zelensky's attitude toward peace talks, including a willingness to make concessions such as giving up territory to russia. so he wants an attitude change and territorial concessions. two things, by the way, that his buddy vladimir putin remember him certainly wants as well. but there's got

to be more, right? well, as nbc news reports, trump also wants zelensky to make some movement, just a little movement towards elections in ukraine and possibly towards stepping down as his country's leader. and there it is. that's the endgame. and that sounds an awful lot like what the kremlin has been saying and wanting for years. take a look at this headline. from the start of the war, russia's top diplomat says the kremlin wants to get rid of zelensky. in a blunt admission of his devastating war aims. or this one? russia aims to topple zelensky's government, foreign minister says. folks. the kremlin's goal has been clear for a very, very long time. remove zelensky and install a puppet regime in his place. and don't take my word for it. here's marco rubio at the start of the war.

>> they actually. >> wanted to just have. >> it be quick and surgical, and then install a puppet government and have that. puppet puppet government run a functional country. >> they're hoping the. >> government will collapse. >> or surrender or. >> capitulate. and then they can install some. >> sort of puppet government, which has been his goal the whole time. their initial objective, which is to remove zelensky and. >> install a. >> puppet government, is going to be very. difficult to achieve. >> regardless of where marco rubio was, is today. where he was then is the truth. the kremlin has been trying unsuccessfully for years to achieve that goal. but their luck could change if the trump administration, as a condition for peace, pressures zelensky to step aside. former cia director john brennan is standing by and he joins me after a quick break. >> hi, grandma. i played baseball today. >> oh that's great. >> what position. >> did you play? >> first base. >> that's what grandpa. used to

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zelensky's. either personal motivations or political. >> motivations. >> or divergent. >> from ending. >> the fighting. >> in his country, >> then. then i think we have a real issue. >> either he needs to. >> come to his senses. >> and. >> come back to the. >> table in gratitude, or someone else needs to lead the country. >> he either needs. >> to resign and send somebody over that we can do business with, or he needs to change. >> getting zelensky out and putting in a puppet regime is has long been a goal of the kremlin, and now republicans seem to be on board for the first time with the first half of that equation. and joining me now is former cia director john brennan. mr. director, it's a great pleasure, as always, to see you. you know the dynamics here better than anyone. what do you make of trump and what republicans seemingly aligning themselves with the kremlin? what is that endgame? what does that look like? what do they

think comes out of something like that? >> well. >> michael, as we have discussed previously, one of the most abhorrent aspects of. >> what we're seeing. >> is how individuals like marco rubio. mike waltz and others have really abandoned their principles and sacrificed their integrity on the altar to trump over. >> russia's invasion. >> of ukraine. as you showed earlier. there are statements, you know, in previous years were. >> quite strong. >> in terms of condemnation of russia's invasion. but marco rubio has done a. >> 180 now. >> basically sending the signal that. >> ukraine has to make. >> these. >> concessions to putin. >> to. >> do the things that. >> putin has. >> always wanted with this. >> war. >> which was. >> to. >> gain territory. >> from ukraine. >> to install. >> a puppet government in kyiv. >> that would be. >> malleable to. >> the kremlin. >> and so. >> this president. >> zelensky is a. >> man of. >> tremendous principle. >> and integrity. >> he wants peace more than anyone else. >> russia has tried.

>> to kill him. >> several. >> times with. assassination attempts. >> over the years, he has seen a large part. >> of his country destroyed. so many of his fellow citizens, killed and injured. he wants to have peace. >> but he doesn't want. >> to surrender to russia. >> and unfortunately. >> i think. donald trump, who is just. >> so interested. >> in. >> getting a. deal and to. >> satisfy mr. putin. is willing. >> to allow. his foreign policy. establishment to push. >> zelensky into a corner. >> but i must tell. >> you. >> president zelensky is going to continue to hold strong. >> as will i think. >> a lot. >> of the nato members. who see that. >> ukraine really has been on the front. >> line of this defense. >> against russian aggression. and also. >> what they don't want to. >> do is to see russia. >> rewarded for that aggression. >> what signal does that send, especially to the baltic states or. >> others. >> that russia. >> can go into a country. >> occupy its territory. >> and then the united states is. >> going to allow and to support russia's efforts to. >> basically take. >> and swallow portions of their territory. again, this is just so. >> antithetical to what.

>> our policy has been heretofore. >> on ukraine. >> but also. antithetical to what the. >> united. >> states has stood for so many decades over the past 80 years. >> given everything you've just said, director brennan, you've got marco rubio saying today that, you know, trump may resume ukraine aid and get what they need if the meeting tomorrow goes well. so what is the expectation expectation from this meeting tomorrow, given everything that we've seen so far and what you've just laid out, how does zelensky posture himself, or how does his representatives posture the his efforts in the face of what the expectation is from donald trump? i think certainly the ukrainians are willing to engage in negotiations as far as a ceasefire. maybe have a. demilitarized zone that will separate the forces and bring to. >> at least a. >> temporary close this. >> this violence. >> and the aggression. >> and. >> the conflict that has taken. >> so many lives. and so i

think. >> the. >> first. >> step is to. >> have some. >> type of cessation. >> of hostilities. >> the longer term issue. >> is what type of peace deal might be. and i. think what. >> the us. >> officials are going to be doing. >> are pressing. >> the ukrainians to say that they're going. >> to. >> give up large chunks of their territory, you know, 20%. >> or so of the ukrainian country. >> is. >> occupied by. >> russian forces. >> right now. >> ukrainians are certainly willing to give back. >> the areas. >> inside of russia that their forces have occupied in the kursk region. i don't think that's, you know. >> any. >> question to that. >> but i think the ukrainians. >> are going to be really hard pressed to agree to some type of territorial concessions other than some modest changes along the existing border. crimea, i think, is probably one of the negotiating. >> points that the. >> sides are going to. >> look at. russia took over the crimea back in 2014. >> but as. >> far as. >> those provinces, those oblasts, luhansk and donetsk in the eastern portion of ukraine, they. >> cannot just cede that to

russia. so again, i think. >> having a cease. >> fire. >> engaging in serious negotiations as far as what a peace deal would look like, i think that is what. >> the ukrainians need to do. and i think. >> the united states needs to support our ukrainian partners in this. >> engagement. >> as opposed to just supporting russian demands. >> that last part right there, everybody. russia needs to understand the us stands with ukraine. john brennan, thank you so much. we'll be right back. thanks, michael. >> some things are just better at home, like picking out new floors for a limited time. get up to 40% off your entire project. >> during our spring. >> sales event, our experts. >> bring the. >> showroom to. you so you can see samples right in your space. >> that's empire's. >> home floor advantage. don't miss your chance to save on select styles fully installed. >> call or visit empire. >> today.com for your free. in-home consultation. >> 800 5882 300. >> empire. today.

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>> completely abdicated their. >> responsibility to american values and to. >> what. has always. >> made this country. >> great, and. >> to the. >> people of this country. >> i will. >> tell you right now, jen, i've been around. >> this. >> country and people. >> are >> off. >> including republicans. >> we've seen. >> that at town hall meetings. >> they like to say it's just a bunch of protesters. and. >> you. >> know, democrats. >> it's not right. >> of course it's not. it's complete. >> one of the things we are encouraging. >> people to do. >> is to if the. republicans are refusing. >> to hold. >> town halls in. >> their districts. >> we're going to help, you. >> know. not just. >> the democratic party, but. >> candidates. >> elected officials. >> and others. we're going to make sure that there's a venue for people to be heard in this country right now, because the republicans don't want the voices of. americans right now, which are crying out for help, to actually be heard. and that's shameful. >> that is absolutely shameful. >> so tell us how you really feel, mr. chairman. i like this guy again. the that episode is available now for msnbc subscribers. that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show

starts right now. hello, rachel. >> hello, michael. a man who knows of what he speaks, the challenges of being a major party national chair. it is never an easy job. but you know what it takes. >> what's that? >> well, a little, you know, you have to have a little swagger. i'm just saying, you and i have talked about this before. >> i had a full hair before i began that job. it was. it was dark brown and looking mighty fine on my head. >> honestly, i'm 14 and look at me. i know it's hard work what we do. michael steele, thank you so much my friend. much appreciated and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. so this was the front page of bloomberg news today. banner headline markets rocked by trump show economic fear across wall street. right under that next headline nasdaq 100 sheds $1.1 trillion in value. right under that next headline. stocks fall

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