happen. and that. >> sends a. >> signal that the white house doesn't have its. >> stuff together. and once again, it underscores the fact that all roads go through trump, regardless of which administration officials, there would never. >> be. >> a white. >> house where they. >> woke up in. the morning and the econ team got. >> together. >> and the. >> comms. >> team got together, and they're like, you. >> know what? today. >> let's open the possibility of a recession. >> that should. >> be our. >> talking point. >> now that's. >> just. >> not what you do. >> no. absolutely not. certainly one that we will be tracking, though politically and economically as we always do. sam stein, as always, my friend. thank you. we're going to see you on morning joe. and that was way too early for this tuesday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> we will go to the markets where. >> it is not a. pretty picture on this monday. dow down by near 500. nasdaq getting bludgeoned. today down more than 600 points. that's more than 3%. so it's ugly across the board as we. >> say joe. the detox continues. >> and it is remarkable how quickly the markets have moved. >> from optimism over trump 2.0 to pessimism. >> over how this thing is all. >> playing out. >> tesla's a perfect. >> example of. >> what we're. >> calling the tesla. chainsaw massacre. it's down again. 50%

drawdown from. >> its high. >> seven weeks in a row, the longest. >> losing streak ever. >> the s&p is now at its. >> lowest level since september. >> since september before the election. fresh data today is. >> not helping quell recession fears. >> and the nasdaq. >> is seeing the biggest losses. once again, you're taking a live. >> look right now at. >> the dow. >> the numbers. >> are tanking on fears. >> of a. recession and. >> trade war. 800 points for the dow. in fact, right now we're pretty much at session lows. >> the s&p is. >> down 2.75%. >> the nasdaq. >> down four and a quarter for its worst day since 2022. >> what started as an ugly day on wall street has turned downright hideous. broad based, selling across the board. and, you know, you could call it a sinkhole that's opened up under the nasdaq. there's a lot of uncertainty right now. trade policy, tax. >> policy, spending policy, immigration policy. >> and geopolitics are all quite uncertain. >> and so. >> i think markets are reacting to that. >> maybe scott should. >> do this. >> read his old boss's book. >> george soros. >> the age. >> of turbulence. where he.

>> talks about herd mentality. the herd is really negative. >> right now. >> and it's focused all on tariffs. i think. >> some of. >> this is. >> a sales job. they have to go out there and maybe stop talking about tariffs so much and start talking about how we're going to infuse the economy. we're going to we're going to release the animal spirits. we're going to deregulate stuff. >> look at just some of the. >> coverage yesterday as president trump's tariffs and. recession fears. sparked a massive. sell off on. >> wall street. >> we're going to get an update on the markets from cnbc in just a moment. >> of course, headlines talk. >> about wall. >> street journal market plunges, recession worries spread. you have a lot of analysts that that had been predicting. >> a. >> soft landing. move away from that and talk about the radicalism of policies. jp morgan. chase his economic team saying because. >> of. >> the radicalism, the extremism of the policies, they're moving. off their more optimistic views. the new york times also talking

about how. >> how the. >> the economy also, mika getting hammered by what happened yesterday on wall street. >> yeah. >> we're going to have all of that. also this. morning we'll. bring you the latest on the diplomatic. talks between. >> u.s. and ukrainian. officials in saudi arabia following that disastrous meeting at the white house. plus health and human services. secretary robert kennedy jr has a new theory. >> it's just shocking. >> for what's stupid causing. >> it's shockingly stupid. >> the measles outbreak across. >> the country. >> he runs. >> hhs. >> a theory that. has no scientific standing. >> absolutely not. >> like that. >> with us. we have the co-host. >> of our fourth hour. >> jonathan lemire. he's a contributing. >> writer at. >> the atlantic covering the white house and national politics. managing editor at the bulwark. sam stein. >> joins us, former treasury. >> official and morning. >> joe economic analyst. >> steve rattner back with us, especially for today. >> good day to have him. >> and us national editor at the financial times. editor luce joins us this morning. let's

dive right in. >> we're going to. >> get to the markets. we're going to get to the market. >> crashes, and we're going. >> to get to all the concerns about the coming recession. >> but first. >> some breaking news. on an. >> interview yesterday. >> that elon musk had with larry kudlow. >> elon musk referred to the federal. >> spending on programs such as a. >> social security, medicare and medicaid. >> as the. >> areas that. >> need to. >> be eliminated. >> in an. >> interview yesterday, musk also claimed. >> democrats used such programs. >> to attract illegal. >> immigrants and to turn. >> them into voters. take a look. >> i mean, the waste. >> in entitlement. >> spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal. >> spending. >> is entitlements. so that that's that's like the big. >> one to. >> eliminate, because that's the sort of half trillion, maybe 6 or 700 billion a year. that is also a mechanism by which the democrats attract and retain

illegal immigrants, by. essentially paying them to come here and then turning them into voters. >> yes. >> so this is why the democrats are so upset about this situation, because they're losing, you know, if we turn off this gigantic money magnet for illegal immigrants, then. >> they will. >> leave and they'll lose voters. >> you know, there are times when democrats have put words in republicans mouths about social security, medicare. here, he said the quiet. >> part out loud. >> and actually said. social security and medicare. is where all the money. >> is. >> and those are the ones that need to be eliminated. now we've we've we've we've, of course, seen him say other things that have been deeply damaging politically. but but that is

extraordinarily damaging politically. and steve rattner, i want to do a fact fact check also. he wasn't talking about the what people up to 160 years of age. >> that that. >> donald trump incorrectly. >> said. >> we're getting social security payments. he's saying that's where the money is. by the way, you and i, we always say that we don't say eliminate them. we also don't say that people are. you got democrats using social security and medicare to attract illegal immigrants to america to vote for them. that's i must say, that is a new and quaint approach to the two most important programs for americans, retired americans. but that's what he said. but i but let's do a fact check on. >> the other part. >> just so when that comes up about donald trump went on and on and on in the speech about people getting social security

checks up to 160, it's that's not the case. >> the fact is. that they. >> have stayed on the. rolls because it's an automated roll where they didn't get pulled off. i want to give you some numbers. you're a number guy in 20 2020. in 2023, social security report found that only 44,000 americans of the 18.9 million individuals listed over 100 years old in the database were receiving payments. in 2020 census bureau there were 80,139 people in america who were over 100. so that tells you that there are almost twice as many americans alive, over 100 as there are americans. who are receiving social security payment checks. so the idea that

there's this massive fraud is ridiculous. 80,000 americans alive over 100 years of age, not, you know, and half of them not getting social security benefits. so again, it undermines it. this is again, this is a lie that musk continued to tell yesterday. but but also just overall talking about how those are the programs that need to be eliminated. again, pretty shocking to most americans, i would think. >> yeah. >> joe. >> look, other. >> presidents have talked about even trimming social security, privatizing social security. all of those ideas have gone down in flames because the american people like their social security. they like their medicare. i was with. >> somebody the other. >> day who senator who conducts town halls, and he said he said and the one thing one of his constituents said, and the one thing that. >> you have to. >> be sure of, i don't want the

government messing around with my medicare. they don't even realize medicare in some cases is a government program. they just like it because. >> it takes care. >> of their their health care needs. and so this has become part of the fabric of our our of our social net. it's something people depend on. it's something people pay into. and the notion of eliminating it is, i think, going to blow up in the faces of elon musk and donald trump. >> now. >> president trump. >> himself. >> i'm wondering, but before we go to you, jonathan lemire. hey, tj, could you cue up that clip again? i just want to make sure that we didn't misunderstand what elon had to say. he's talking to larry kudlow, and it's fascinating that he and i were watching another network last night where they were interviewing larry kudlow. it's fascinating that this part of the interview never came up. let's play it again because it's kind of i mean. >> the. >> way support in entitlement spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal

spending, is entitlements. so that that's that's. like the big. >> one to. >> eliminate is that that's the sort of half trillion, maybe 6 or 700 billion a year. that is also a mechanism by which the democrats attract and retain illegal immigrants, by essentially paying them to come here and then turning them into voters. >> yes. >> so this is why the democrats are so upset about the situation, because they're losing, you know, if we turn off this gigantic money magnet for illegal immigrants, then they will leave and they will. lose voters. >> so president trump repeatedly. >> has said. >> he wouldn't touch social security. >> other times, he's waffled, suggested maybe there'd. >> be some something to do on the margins there. >> but this is pretty clear. >> what elon musk. >> had to. >> say yesterday. >> $700 billion is a lot of money. >> maybe even more. and it's social. >> security is known.

>> as the third. >> rail of american politics for a reason. no one touches it. and certainly without. devastating political consequences. >> so this. >> is. >> now. musk has. >> now supplied. >> democrats with yet another ready. >> made campaign. >> commercial. wielding that chainsaw. on stage at cpac. indiscriminately cutting. >> federal government programs. >> to hurt red. >> state blue. state voters alike. and now this. >> saying he wants. to not reform, even. >> just. >> eliminate social. >> security, which would have impacts. >> on just about every american. >> it would. and it's not the first time. remember, jonathan, he's also described it as a ponzi scheme, which betrays a complete ignorance of how ponzi schemes work. this is a pay as you go system. people pay into it all their lives, and then they draw out of it after they retire or get disability or whatever. the one group that doesn't draw out. >> of it. >> are illegal immigrants. they

come in, they work, they pay into. >> it. >> but they don't draw. out of it because they're illegal immigrants, let alone come here because of. >> the magnet. >> as musk calls it, of social security. so this is the most extraordinary misreading both of how social security works and also of the role of illegal immigrants in the us economy. and i have to say, i keep correcting. maybe i'm being pedantic. but entitlements is the wrong word. if you pay into. >> something. >> you are investing in your future, your money. so in the expectation you'll get it back after you retire. any attempt, as i think trump knows to mess with that is political dynamite. >> elon musk. >> is elon musk's political standing in this. town is falling almost as fast as tesla's share price. he is. he is an albatross around trump's

neck. >> not that fast. >> let's let's not. >> overstate it. i mean. >> let's not. >> overstate tesla there. >> i mean. >> they've lost. >> like 750 billion in market cap over like, i don't know, the past month or two. so yeah. >> but real. >> quick real quickly. and then we're going to get to the markets unfortunately crashing yesterday sam really quickly because there's going to be a lot of scrambling going on, i'm sure, in the white house about what elon musk said and what he didn't say. and i'm sure they're already trying to apologize for him on other networks and try to explain that his words are being wrenched from the proper context. elon musk said social security, medicare, those are the two big programs that need to be eliminated. and he didn't talk about the lie that people are up to 160 getting social security that did that. know what he said was there's like $700 billion there. that's where the money is. that's what needs to be eliminated. >> right. >> the most. >> generous reading. >> of this comment. >> is he. >> was saying there. >> is. >> waste and fraud.

>> up to $700. >> billion. >> in social security. no. >> there's there are no. >> statistics out there to. support that claim. >> and it leads you. >> to the conclusion that. >> they. >> are either going. >> to. >> manufacture waste, fraud and abuse in an effort to cut. >> the program. >> or they're just making it up, honestly. and i. >> have to imagine that. >> one, this is part of a larger program. now to go after the entitlement programs. >> the reason you have. >> to imagine is because elon continues to talk about this. and then, of course, donald trump brings it up in the in the state of the state of the union address. i know it's not a state of the union address. >> and so clearly. >> their. >> eyes are set on this. on top of that, doge. >> has been doing under the radar. >> a. >> number of cuts to the social. security administration. >> and that is. >> the. >> agency that. >> implements the program privatization. >> automation. >> cutting down offices. >> all that are going to. >> hurt and hamper. >> the program. >> in its administration. you can already tell on capitol hill there is incredible discomfort

from republicans. and democrats over what they've done to date. >> and they've just. >> gotten started. this is very kindly an. >> albatross that. >> is. >> going to hang over them. >> trump knows. >> this, which is what's. >> fascinating to me, is that he knows. >> how bad this. >> can be politically for him. and yet he's not reining in elon when it comes to social security. >> and again, these these lies about social security and paying people that are dead up to 160, not only are they not paying a lot of people that are dead up to 160, like what we heard and what we keep hearing from elon musk and others in the administration. they're not even paying 40,000 americans who are over 100 social security. they're more americans alive, 80,000, according to the 2020 census, that are that are alive, over 100 years old, that are getting social security checks, which is about 44,000. >> so let's look at what happened with stock futures, which are up slightly. >> this morning after a massive.

sell off yesterday on wall street. >> the dow. >> lost nearly 900 points. the s&p. 502.7% and the nasdaq dropped more than 700. >> points, its worst. day since. >> september of 2022. stocks sank. >> as concerns over. >> a recession rose on wall. >> street after. >> president trump. >> in an. >> interview with fox news on sunday. >> refused to rule out the possibility that his tariffs and policies could cause a recession. >> analysts at jpmorgan. >> chase now believe there. >> is a 40%. >> chance of a global recession because of extreme u.s. policies. yesterday's losses. continued what has been. >> a weeks long. >> stretch of. selling since. trump's tariffs talks began. the s&p 500 closed down 8.6% from its record high. >> on february. >> 19th. >> shedding over $4 trillion in. market value during that time. >> let's bring in right now the anchor of cnbc's worldwide

exchange, frank hall and frank bloodbath. yesterday on wall street. talk about it. >> yeah. >> very. >> difficult day on. >> wall street. >> huge declines. >> you guys. >> are laying out the numbers. i got one more. for you. the nasdaq having its worst. >> day in more than two years and. >> $1 trillion in tech stock. >> gains lost. >> just gone in one day. >> so you mentioned it. two big factors here. concerns over white house policy and. >> fears of recession. driving that. >> sell off. that, again has. wiped out $4. >> trillion. >> from the. >> s&p 500. often called the. >> broader market since its all time high that it hit. >> just last month. >> it's been a very long. >> month. >> for investors. >> also. >> now there's concerns about the consumer that are weighing on the market, especially yesterday, delta airlines coming out with a warning of weakness when it comes to consumer and business spending. that has airline stocks trading lower this morning. >> but also. >> that warning. >> is kind of flying. >> in the face of what we've. >> been hearing from so. >> many companies. >> and even economists. a lot of those economists. >> are telling us the economy is strong, the consumer is strong, and that spending for consumers. >> that are. >> about 70%. >> of the economy is just shifted to things like services, including travel and

hospitality. again, that delta warning kind of flying in the face. >> of all that. >> also, when it comes. >> to. >> that ai trade. >> that's really powered the market over the last two years, we're continuing to see people. >> saying that. >> that story. >> may have unwound. >> including our. >> own jim cramer. yesterday. >> he said the. mach seven, that just doesn't even. >> exist anymore. >> saying that. >> tesla and nvidia. >> and ai name that's gone. >> from obscure to ubiquitous. >> it's just no longer. >> magnificent anymore, he says. both tesla and. >> nvidia, they're kind of like meme. >> stocks right now, kind of twisting. >> and turning on investor sentiment. >> that's often called animal spirits. >> that's the. >> term you're going to. >> hear a whole lot more. >> today, especially. >> so just yesterday i spoke with former fed official. loretta mester. she doesn't believe that we're headed for a recession. she admits there's a slowdown but doesn't think it's a recession. but even she admitted, if you're an investor, a business leader or just a person, it's time. >> to. >> plan for a potential. >> economic slowdown, maybe even a recession. not her base case, but she's saying certainly. >> it's becoming. >> a more and more. >> of a realistic possibility. >> cnbc's frank holland. >> thank you very. very much.

>> yeah. let me just say really quickly. big difference between tesla and nvidia. i mean, tesla has been overvalued, analysts believe for years. it's sort of a meme stock. people are investing in sort of the genius of elon musk that's obviously been shattered over the past couple of months, especially in europe. nvidia they are making chips that are going to fuel like the future revolution. and just because the wall street is going one way or another because of fears over tariffs, doesn't change the underlying fundamentals of that. >> so for several. >> years, and definitely over the past few. >> months. >> you've. >> talked about the strong. >> yet precarious state of the american economy, warning the trump administration. >> and republicans. >> in power in washington to be careful. >> not to upend. >> upend things. >> here's joe over. >> the past few months. take a look. >> tariffs are taxes. >> on consumers. they are taxes on middle class americans.

donald trump broke all records when he was president for being fiscally reckless. and now with his proposals, according to economists quoted by the wall street journal, it's going to happen again. the challenge for donald trump and the administration is in some ways. do no harm. i mean, do no harm on on tariffs that are going to be inflationary, do no harm on a monetary policy that's going to be too inflationary. we got a $36 trillion debt. our our economy has been fueled by debt from the federal government since 2007. it just has republicans. they need to be careful when they take control. they need to be careful because right now they have an economy that's the envy of the world. and when you're sitting with a lead like that, you don't want to move too fast. we have a

strong economy, but it's on the razor's edge as far as inflationary pressures go. we've got a stock market that warren buffett and a lot of people a hell of a lot smarter than me, think is. >> overvalued, overpriced. >> right now we we've got the bubble, the crypto bubble. we're just just. >> just crazy. >> maddening profits right now. literally based on nothing but this idea that markets. >> go up forever. and this. >> idea, this threat coming from china. this idea. >> that everybody. >> has to line up and deal with america or there's nobody else for them to. >> deal with. >> right now. you know, we're finding out it is not a unipolar world. >> leaders across. >> the world have. said the united states economy, the envy of the world. before donald trump got into office. it's not looking quite that way right

now. >> so that's joe. over the past few. >> months. >> and with respect, we also had very. >> honest conversations. >> with members of the. >> business community. >> ceos, even. >> billionaires that supported trump. and the. >> reaction was. >> oh. >> joe. >> he's not going to do that. he's you're crazy. >> he's not going to do that. and yet. >> donald trump's. >> been quite. >> consistent about this. >> and now he is. doing what he has. said he was going to do. >> well, i talked to a lot of people yesterday who had been brushing these warnings aside for months now, and they're not quite as confident this morning. they were not quite as confident yesterday. steve rattner, we've had this discussion before to the united states economy was the envy of the world, but it was incumbent upon republicans, incumbent upon republicans to do no harm. that is a classic

edmund burke conservative approach. i'm an edmund burke conservative, and i have been for 250 years now. but do no harm. and of course, this arrogant notion that the united states could tell the rest of the world, take it or leave. >> it. >> acting as. >> if this. >> were, you know, 2000 or 2001 where where we were the only game in town. it's just not the reality. and so i've been warning of three bubbles, the fiscal bubble, which still will explode at some point if republicans don't get responsible. and that will be the ugliest bubble of all. the crypto bubble that is starting to pop. and of course, the stock market bubble. but it's all the analysts that i read of yesterday. i'd love to get your input. we're talking about it's the back and forth. it's the reckless, the radical policies.

it's what jp morgan chase called extreme policies that republicans are pushing that actually. >> are. >> leading us down a pathway of this economic chaos that we saw play out in front of our eyes yesterday. >> yeah. >> joe, i think your last point is, is an important one as well as, of course, the rest of it. look, they came in, they i. >> guess you could say. >> they did. they said what. >> they said. >> they were going to do. but i don't think anybody really expected. nobody expected it was going to be this extreme, that elon musk was going to go in there wielding his doge sledgehammer, smashing away at whatever he felt like, talking off the cuff about social security or this or that. but and so the policies they've actually articulated that they're doing are very extreme. but what is really bothering the market as much as anything is uncertainty. you heard a reference in the earlier clip to the earlier guest to animal

spirits. animal spirits was a coin, a phrase coined by john maynard keynes. and what it really means is that you can have policies, but a lot of what goes on in an economy is how people feel. are they excited? are they optimistic? do they believe it's going to get better or are they worried? and in trump 1.0, whether you liked it or not, at least from the point of view of the business community, it was sort of clear, it was logical, and it was things they liked in terms of tax changes, regulatory changes and so forth. this administration is all over the place, and one day they're cutting social security, the next day they're firing everybody at usaid, and then they're rehiring some because the courts tell them to because they realize they can't get the social security checks out without these people. and the tariffs go on. the tariffs go off, they get suspended, they get threatened in other places. and this is what businesses really can't live with or consumers. the uncertainty of not knowing what's going to happen. and so you do see

consumers cutting back on spending. it fell in january for the first time in a long time. you do see, for example, the deal market companies buying and selling each other almost at a standstill because nobody knows what the rules of the game are going to be for the companies. once they they merge. and it's kind of chaos is another word to put it. and so the stock market sees all that and says, as you just pointed out, it's kind of priced for perfection. it's had a great run. and why are we sitting up here at these high levels when there's all this crazy stuff going on in the world, and anything could bring down the economy. >> again, price for perfection. which is why, again, do no harm. that's what the warning was about. and i've got to say, anybody that didn't see this coming during the presidential election. >> wasn't listening. >> wasn't listening, and they certainly weren't listening to us, because what did i bet you? i talked to andrew ross sorkin 100 times saying, andrew, what are the two things that the market hates? they hate instability, right? first of

all, and they hate unpredictability. and that's exactly what they've been given. and that's why the market, i just got to say really quickly because the word because i think it was charlie gasparino that talked about animal spirits, quoting john maynard keynes. you know, i was i was at a, i was at a roundtable at loose and i think we talked about this i certainly talked about it on the air time and time again at a roundtable at king's college in cambridge back in december, and also talked with a lot of bankers and economic thinkers in london. and i came back and i talked about it on the show a lot. we were the envy of the world. our economy was the envy of the world. and they kept talking about animal spirits. they kept talking about the extraordinary economic run the united states had had over the past two, three, four years. london wanted to emulate that. berlin wanted to emulate that. paris wanted to emulate that. they said, you all are just light years ahead of us, that

it's hard to believe that was just three, three and a half months ago. nobody is saying in london, paris, berlin, across the world we would like to be more like the united states economically today. nobody's saying it. you talk to them now and they're like, man, we can't figure out what what you guys are doing. and far, far, far from wanting to emulate us. now they're saying we're going to have to go it alone. >> yeah, it's actually remarkable. the last few days, the shift of stock market hopes and projections across the atlantic. i mean, germany has had a so-called sputnik moment. we talk about john maynard keynes. the germans are now talking about real spending, real reflation. and so are the french. even the british are beginning to sort of move under keir starmer. so the animal

spirits that the market is expecting to. see have crossed the atlantic. i mean i think trump inherited pretty much the perfect economy from a macroeconomic point of view. on january the 20th, there had been a soft landing. inflation was under control. the magnificent seven stocks were booming for good reason. and in seven short weeks, he's turned america from the star performer into the laggard. it's hard to think of any other president who, in that short a period of time, could have shifted the markets from bull to bear, as trump has done in the last couple of months. it's remarkable. >> president trump likes to. >> say often to. >> volodymyr zelensky, you don't have the cards. if america's economy fails. >> and it keeps continuing in the direction that it's

continuing. >> the united. >> states are. >> not going to have the cards. it's going to be the trump. >> cards. >> and we're. >> not going to. >> have them. i don't think it's going to continue to fail. i do think they're going to be readjustments here, obviously. i mean, you look at the stocks that continue to fall. you know, a i'm sure donald trump's not going to want to listen to ronald reagan. but ronald reagan had an old saying, which was if i can get 80% of what i want, well, then i'm not going to give that up for nothing. and he has believed in tariffs since 1987. this isn't something he dreamed up in the middle of this campaign or the last campaign. but targeted tariffs going after china, not going after our best trade partners. those targeted tariffs would be far more popular politically. and also they would do a lot less damage, not only on wall street but on main street. and i got to say, mika, i think most americans would support targeted tough

tariffs on china. >> we shall see. us national editor at the financial times. ed lewis, thank you. >> morning joe. >> economic analyst steve rattner, thank. >> you as well. >> and still ahead on morning joe, we'll go live to saudi arabia ahead of today's high stakes talks. >> between the. u.s. and. >> ukrainian officials. >> of ending. >> the war. >> with russia. nbc's keir simmons is standing. by for us. simmons is standing. by for us. morning joe is back in the freestyle libre 3 plus sensor tracks your glucose in real time, and over time it can help lower your a1c. ♪♪ this is progress. learn more and try for free at freestylelibre.us ♪♪ there's a reason your family is the way it is. but where did all that come from and from who? ancestry can help you find out with detailed dna results, and inspiring family history memberships. lucky you, it's on sale now. and now, here's chris counahan with the leaffilter gutter report— and what changing weather conditions can mean

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>> attacks on ukrainian territory. >> and now. >> ukraine is. launching retaliatory strikes. russia's defense ministry. >> said overnight, its air. defenses shot down over 300. >> ukrainian drones. >> in ten. different regions. >> this video. >> shows the moment a. >> drone slammed. into the top of a building in russia's moscow region. >> around 4 a.m. local time. that comes as ukrainian officials are meeting right. >> now with secretary of state. marco rubio. >> and other u.s. >> officials for talks. >> aimed at ending. >> the years long war with russia. >> on the plane to saudi arabia. >> yesterday, secretary. rubio previewed today's discussions. >> i don't have any predetermined words i need them to say, but i think. primarily it's just. >> the sense of where. >> they are and. >> where their understanding. >> is that there's i think both sides need to come to an. understanding that there's. >> no military. >> solution to this. >> situation. >> the russians can't conquer

all of ukraine. >> and obviously it. >> will be very. >> difficult for. >> ukraine in any reasonable time period to sort of force. >> the russians back all the way to where they were in 2014. so the. >> only solution. >> to this. >> war is. diplomacy and getting them to a table. >> where that's possible. >> today's meeting will not involve. >> ukrainian president. >> volodymyr zelenskyy. >> although he was. >> in the same. >> city yesterday. >> where talks. >> are. >> being held right now. >> zelenskyy met with. >> the saudi crown. >> prince, saying on social media they. >> had a. >> quote, detailed discussion. >> on the steps and. >> conditions needed. to end the war. >> let's bring in nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, live from jeddah, saudi arabia. keir, i must say what marco rubio, what america's secretary of state said yesterday on the airplane, may have made big headlines that ukraine is going to have to give up territory. but i must say it is the identical thing. and

neither neither gentleman will like me saying this is the identical thing. what then? chairman of the joint chiefs, mark milley, told me in 2023, before the vaunted spring offensive by the ukrainians. and he's like, no, that's not going to drive the russians out of ukraine. they're going to have to come to a brokered peace for the same reasons that marco rubio was saying that on the plane over to saudi arabia yesterday. what? tell us what what's going on over there now? what what sort of the vibe, if we're to use the word of 2024 in saudi arabia right now around these peace talks? >> well, joe, those talks have been going on now for more than an hour in an adjacent room from here, the secretary of state, marco rubio, holding up a thumbs up when he was asked as he headed into the room, the lead the leader of the ukrainian delegation, andriy yermak, talking about the americans as

seeming constructive. i mean, we've been talking about in recent days, joe, right, about how president trump's language appears to have been changing, suggesting that it's going to be more difficult to get to a ceasefire. and i think both ukraine and russia have been giving president trump a lesson in that in recent days. that drone strike on moscow overnight. right. as these talks are getting started, described by a local official as the biggest drone strike on moscow of this war, at least two killed, 17 injured, according to that local. those local officials, on the other hand, odesa hit again overnight in ukraine. and there have been these escalating attacks by the russians in recent days. so the reality is, while the americans and the ukrainians are talking here, the russians and ukrainians only talk to each other in the language of war. and that is the difficulty. we

do have a picture of the kinds of things that they're going to be talking about in the room right now. you mentioned marco rubio on the plane there. he was kind of hedging a little bit, not giving too much away, talking about that. they are trying to get a sense from both ukrainians and the russians about what exactly where exactly they stand and how far apart they are. they're a long way apart, ostensibly, given what you're seeing on the battlefield. but there you are, the diplomacy now going on. and president zelenskyy, who met with mohammed bin salman, the crown prince of saudi arabia, who is playing a mediating role, talking overnight about some of the things that he had a conversation with the crown prince about, including the russians sending back ukrainian prisoners, including children. he's talked about the potential for security guarantees, he says, with the crown prince,

that, of course, the vexed question that led to that disastrous meeting in the oval office, the ukrainians, still talking about security guarantees, not giving up on that. and then the russians real quick. we are hearing from the russians this morning. and again, we've said many times, haven't we? the russians are not in a hurry. today, the kremlin spokesman, dmitry peskov, saying we shouldn't have rose tinted glasses about our relationship with the united states. >> keir it's. >> jonathan, what is. the progress, as. >> best you can tell. >> on this minerals deal. >> that. >> many thought was going to be signed in the. >> oval office. >> a couple of weeks. >> back wasn't. >> when that. >> meeting devolved. >> into tensions and. >> some anger even. >> and as well as the idea of territory. >> you just mentioned. >> the security. >> guarantees ukraine. >> still hoping. >> to get. is there an. >> early sense from. >> what. >> the u.s. is. >> telling ukraine what. >> they. >> may have to settle for in their estimation, in terms of getting their land back? >> yeah. i mean, on the question

of the minerals deal, look, it's possible that at this meeting they signed something. i think that's unlikely, but this is a work in progress. just to make another point, there are two senior u.s. officials in the delegation there. there are three senior ukrainian officials. that's because the envoy, steve witkoff, isn't here. he's gone to qatar. so you get the sense that things are being done on the fly and that we've had that sense for some time. and that continues. and i guess in a way, jonathan, that goes to your second question about, you know, what are the what are the americans saying they'll give and what are they demanding of the ukrainians? it's tricky to tell. look, you make a good point, joe, about the question of territory. people will look back and ask whether the us gave up the idea of ukraine conceding territory before they even got into

negotiations. whether that was wrong or whether it was simply a question of facts on the ground. but but certainly, as we've said many times to, the negotiations are happening right now. right? we talk about people getting around the table there, around the table in the room next door. there's talk about, you know, potentially a us official going to the to russia. we don't have that confirmed. but, you know, we're watching the negotiations in real time. but will they work. will it work out the way president trump suggests? we're nowhere near being able to say that this is going to be a success. wow. >> all right. nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons live in saudi arabia. thank you so much. and to underline keir's point, you can go back even to the biden administration and all the officials in the biden administration knew that the ukrainians would have to give up land. now, what's changed here is they were going to give up land in return for a security

guarantee. and the question is, how does that get cobbled together? does that mean nato troops on the ground in ukraine, other than u.s. troops, and then a u.s. minerals deal that puts americans inside of ukraine and sort of acts as a hair trigger. so the russians, i almost said the soviets, the soviets can't come into ukraine without killing americans. that's that's really the question. how do you put together that security guarantee that the biden administration was far more willing to offer up to ukraine than the trump administration is right now? >> well, it's. >> a question we. >> can ask u.s. ambassador to russia. >> michael mcfaul, who will. >> be on morning. >> joe in our fourth hour. coming up, mitch mcconnell. and the president. >> he calls despicable. >> the atlantic's mark leibovich. >> sat down with the. >> outgoing republican senator. he joins us with a. >> new. >> look at his. >> interview ahead. >> on morning joe. >> and before. >> we go to break. >> more from our. 3050 summit in abu. >> dhabi, where we gave the know your value award. it's an annual

award. >> to actress. >> and activist. >> sheryl lee ralph. >> she was incredible. >> oh my. >> god, yes. love her. sheryl spoke to over. >> 500 women. >> from 46 different countries about her career. >> which includes. >> her first. >> emmy. >> win at the. >> age of. >> 66. >> her activism work, and how women should put. >> themselves first and. >> not be. >> afraid to take up space. >> sheryl also attended our. >> service day, giving. >> tips and advice, career. advice to. >> a group of local high school theater students. and on friday, she received her award at. >> our international women's day. >> awards gala at. >> the stunning. >> louvre abu dhabi. and she was. simply amazing. take a look. >> hi. >> i'm an. endangered.

>> species, but. i sing. >> no victim's song. >> thank you. mika. honorary girlfriend. >> thank you for. >> believing in the power. >> of women. >> thank you for. >> having the vision and the foresight to create. something like. this so that. others may. >> follow for. >> generations to come. >> knowing your value. >> oh, it's not. >> always easy. >> for many of us, it has been a journey. >> a long. >> journey, a journey of finding our voice, standing our ground and learning to take up space in

rooms that were. >> not always built for us. and like so. >> many women. >> i have. >> faced moments of doubt. >> i have been underestimated. i have been told to wait my. >> turn. >> to be grateful for what i have to not ask for too much. but at every step i had a choice. i could either shrink or i could. >> rise to. >> accept less or to demand >> accept less or to demand more. and i. choose to rise. with fatigue and light-headedness,

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>> i can feel the winds of change. >> 48 past the hour. time now for a look. >> at some. >> of the other stories making headlines this morning. the former leader of the philippines has been arrested. >> on accusations of. >> crimes against humanity. >> rodrigo duterte. >> was taken into custody at manila's main airport after. >> returning from. >> a trip. >> to hong kong. >> the international criminal. >> court says the. >> 79 year old. >> was responsible for tens of

thousands of deaths as part of his brutal crackdown in the country, which he cast as a war on drugs and crime. according to the new york times, it appears that the philippine government was prepared to surrender mr. duterte to. >> the. >> icc. ontario, canada's most popular province, is hitting back at president trump's tariffs by imposing. >> a. >> new 25% surcharge on electricity exported to michigan, minnesota. >> and new york. >> during a news conference yesterday. >> ontario's leader, premier doug ford, said. >> the move. >> could increase electricity bills for some u.s. households by roughly $100 per month. and police say wildfires that tore across long island over the weekend were sparked by someone making s'mores. >> oh good lord. >> yeah, really? >> making s'mores. >> in their backyard.

>> so we should. we should cut. >> that out. >> no s'mores. no s'mores over 4th of july with the kids. >> well, i don't know. this is not the 4th of july s'mores. no, i'm. >> just saying they're like s'mores. this is now one of the great threats. >> officials say. >> the person who was. >> trying to roast marshmallows used cardboard to. light a fire. after struggling to get. >> the flames. >> going in. >> the windy conditions. >> governor kathy. >> hochul has since instituted a burn ban on long island. >> that's some s'mores right there. >> it's a s'mores band. >> a lot, a lot, a lot of marshmallows you could use. that is crazy. that that was crazy. but no, it's not funny at all. >> it's not funny. >> but from s'mores to sports, i never knew. also, a really big headline out of major leagues bad news. and i do mean that. and the nightmare realized for new york yankees and their fans. ace pitcher gerrit cole will have season ending tommy john surgery on his throwing elbow today. the decision to undergo the procedure comes after cole sought a second opinion on the discomfort he experienced

following his second outing of spring training last week. the 34 year old right hander is expected to be sidelined for at least part of the 2026 season as well. it's really is it's really sad news. you know, we're obviously we're red sox fans, but man, you want to see the best out there. and again i gerrit cole is such a gritty, tough competitor. i feel terrible for him. and as we were saying yesterday, tongue in cheek, raffy devers does too, because with cole not there, he's going to hit five less home runs this year. >> yeah, devers has chances at the. >> all. >> star team too. just take a hit. but joe you're right. we don't root for injuries. injuries are a part of the game. but sam right now. >> injuries really piling up for the yankees. >> luke lewis. whose rookie of the year. >> last year. >> he's out a. >> few months cole. >> has established. >> out for the year. giancarlo stanton might also be facing season ending surgery. >> yankees go. >> into the season. >> limping again. >> you hate to see it. you do. >> you hate.

>> to see it. >> sam. >> don't be sarcastic. >> we do hate to see it. >> you're being sarcastic. >> all right, all right, all right. >> i don't i don't root for injuries. >> i wouldn't root for it. gerrit cole is a very good. >> pitcher. >> and i wish the yankees well. i do. >> no. >> we don't. >> we don't. >> he's very clever. >> i will say i will. >> say yesterday. last year, john was unusual for the yankees. i don't know that i've seen a team over the past five years that have been hit by more injuries, and i don't know exactly why that is. i know a few years ago, yankees fans were complaining about the fact that they just they they weren't in good shape. they they they didn't seem up to the task of playing. that changed, of course, last year. but man, they are always hit. it seems in recent years with a ton of injuries. last year, jonathan was the exception to the rule. >> yeah. >> even cole. >> missed a little bit of. >> time last year. but you're right. >> that's been a franchise that has had real issues. >> maybe that's what was. >> the. >> impetus to their.

>> biggest offseason move, which of course. >> was changing. >> their facial. >> hair policy. >> perhaps thinking that the beards. >> that neatly groomed. >> beards that. >> they could now. >> grow would. change their injury. karma. seems like it's not working, at least so far. >> you know, mika, i can't ever have a serious conversation with either of these guys. >> why do you try? >> i don't know. managing editor at the bulwark, sam stein. you were completely sarcastic. i was not trying. trying to be sensitive. still ahead. we love you. we love you, sam. say hi to your mom. still ahead, we're going to talk to the chair and the vice chairs of the democrats women caucus about how the trump administration's policies are impacting women so far. also ahead in the award winning co-host of the daily show, comedian michael costa will be live in studio to talk about his new memoir, lucky loser adventures in tennis and comedy. and then now look at this. i you know, i don't know. >> i think. >> it's beautiful. i don't know how our friends in chopper four do this, but they give us such a beautiful, beautiful view of i

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>> way to bank. >> and get up to $500 in five minutes or less when you download. >> dave. >> what do you. >> have to say to the. >> american investor in this country? >> well, i think you're going to see some very good days ahead. >> we used to. >> speak together about the. >> idea that. >> the. >> averages mattered. >> and were a good. >> barometer of your performance. is that still the case? >> we go beyond dow jones to nasdaq. >> well, i think i've always

said, you know, to me stock market is very all of it. you know, all of it together. it's very important. >> you said. >> look we're going. >> to have a disruption. >> but we're okay. >> with that. >> is that what you meant? the stock market. >> going down was the disruption. >> what were. you alluding to? >> look, what i have to do is build a strong country. you can't really watch the stock market. >> okay. those comments from president. >> trump coming three months apart. >> he's often. >> touted the stock market as a measure. >> of his success. >> but on. >> sunday, he told fox. >> news that. americans shouldn't be watching. >> the markets. >> welcome back to morning joe. it's tuesday, march 11th. jonathan lemire. >> is still with us. >> and joining the conversation. >> we have. >> msnbc contributor mike barnicle, the host. >> of way too early. ali vitali, staff writer at the atlantic. >> mark leibovich. >> and chief white house correspondent for the new york times, peter baker and former. msnbc host and contributor to washington monthly. chris matthews is with us this morning. >> peter baker, i want to go.

>> to you first. >> so the complaint about the u.s. economy for years, from from a lot of people that that that wanted to have the united states think more long term is they're always concerned about the bottom line, what's going to happen on wall street. how are the earnings reports going to be like every quarter? right. it's very strange over the past several days to have donald trump suddenly speaking like a chinese philosopher, we must be patient and think in hundreds of years. i cannot tell you the, you know, the outcome of the french revolution yet. too early to tell. but we're sort of in that position, and i'd love to you, since you're you obviously cover the beat and you understand better than most what's going on there. where is he right now? because, again, this is a guy that's been famously, you know, maggie haberman, your colleague, has

one of the best quotes. donald trump spent most of his life worrying about surviving the next five minutes. i'm curious where we are now, where obviously what he's talking about, these tariffs that he's believed in for the past 40 years are causing major disruption, causing $4 trillion in losses in the market over the past month or so. and yet he's saying, stay calm, hold it together. this is going to take a while. >> yeah. >> where do you think that ends up falling? if we have, let's say another week of economic downturn, especially in the markets. >> well, joe, look, if you had a nickel for every time donald trump said the market is great, the market is a sign of my success. well, you'd make back a lot of the money you've lost in the last 60, 70 days or sorry, whatever the 40 days, i guess whatever it is, it seems like a lot longer. but by. >> the way. >> just for the just for the record, peter, i don't know a lot about the stock market, but i got i got out like three

months ago because i was concerned about volatility. it's crazy. all of these. people also going, oh, he's going to be great for animal spirits. or the same people have been saying for the past 40 years, we don't like volatility. we don't like unpredictability. like this wasn't hard to see coming but i'm sorry. go ahead. >> no this is that's the striking thing right? is that people who backed him are the ones who thought he'd be good for business. are also the same ones who want predictability. well, this is not a predictable guy. he's never been a predictable guy. it's not going to be a predictable administration. now, look, the last president we heard say, hey, there's going to be some short term disruption while we rebuild the economy. was joe biden right? he said, okay, yeah, there's some inflation right now, but don't worry, it'll get better. it did actually get better, but people still felt the pain along the way. and it cost the democrats a lot of electoral college success. well, i don't know. that's going to cost donald trump the same thing. we'll see. his base has always been pretty strong for him. but economic dislocation, i think, is the one thing this white house worries about more than anything. they

think that they're going to be fine with, you know, things like the doge chainsaw to the federal government. they think they'll be fine with turning the page on the ukraine war and siding with russia over ukraine. they think they'll be fine with, you know, retribution and revenge. but the one thing that concerns them, i think most is economic dislocation, because that's where his bragging authorities always come from. >> yeah, they're very confident. still inside the white house, one person who may not be quite as confident, mark leibovich and i called around yesterday with some people who knew elon musk pretty well. and, you know, they they were the ones that would always tell me, oh, elon doesn't care about money, elon just he sleeps in a t shirt, works in his office. he doesn't care about money. i called yesterday after tesla was down $800 billion in market cap over the past month or two ago. does elon still not care about money? you think elon's just looking for

another dirty t shirt to wear? do you think he actually cares about whether they go, oh no, he he cares about money. i want i want to go over this though. so since he started really working at doge, working hard at doge back in december, tesla has lost $800 billion in market cap, half of their value. their stock has gone down 50% since then, and they've gone down because of falling sales. like the political controversies, like the numbers are plummeting in germany because he supported the far right party. they're plummeting in france because he's supporting far right politics there. they're plummeting across europe, they're plummeting on the coasts where most of his buyers used to be before, you know, this past year, competition from china has gotten really, really fierce. you do wonder how long he can

continue doing this before he goes back to his day job, since what he does for his day job has funded so much of his rise, and he's $800 billion down. just in the past couple of months since he started doge. yeah. >> i mean, i would i would. >> argue that. >> i don't. >> think elon musk's attention to his day job. >> is what's. >> driving this. i think a lot. >> of it is. >> frankly, it's perception. i mean. >> that's what is. >> at the root, certainly of the. >> stock market, but. >> also of consumer confidence. >> and. consumer choices. >> there is all this. >> noise around elon musk as a cult of personality at this point. he's a. >> cult of personality. >> to some degree within the maga world. but if you look at the demographics. >> and the economic profiles of our of, you know, certainly american citizens. >> be. >> you know, maga voters are not buying teslas. >> this is the these. >> are. >> you know, people with. >> much lower. >> incomes and, frankly. democratic voters in this.

>> current environment. >> and i. >> mean. there's that right there. and plus there's all the. >> perception of. >> just. >> you know. people being nasty to. >> tesla owners and. >> those what's the word, the truck thing. >> what's the what. >> do you call them. >> oh yeah. >> the what's. >> the i don't know what they're. >> called the tesla. >> truck. >> the tank or whatever. >> yeah, yeah. cybertruck. there you go. anyway, there's a lot going. >> on here. i think it goes. well beyond. >> what elon musk. >> pays attention to from the day to day. >> so elon musk told larry kudlow yesterday that his. >> work in the government. has caused him great. >> difficulty in. running his businesses. >> also in. >> that interview, he referred to the federal. spending program such as social security, medicare and medicaid as the areas that need to be eliminated. >> take a look. >> i mean, the. >> waste in entitlement spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal spending, is entitlements. so that that's that's.

>> like the. >> big. one to eliminate is that's the sort of half trillion, maybe six. >> 7 billion. >> a year. that is also a mechanism by which the democrats attract and retain illegal immigrants, by essentially paying them to come here and then turning them into voters. >> yes. >> so this is why the democrats are so upset about this situation, because they're losing, you know, if we turn off this gigantic money magnet for illegal immigrants, then they will. leave and they will lose voters. why are the 20. >> million. >> people who are definitely dead marked as alive in the social. security database? why were hundreds of hundreds of millions of dollars of small business administration loans were given out to people aged 11 and under? according to the according to the social security? i mean, like, these must be some very enterprising

eight year olds, you know, that's. >> a pretty. >> strong. >> 150 year olds. >> yes, exactly. >> as as the president said, you know, we have an enormous number of people marked as alive who are 160. he didn't know the country was that healthy. >> i love larry, i've known larry for a long time. and if that offends you, that i like larry kudlow, despite his politics. i'm sorry, i can't help you. but larry just sat there and he let elon musk lie. and then larry's interview was replayed on another show, and larry replays it. and the response to that is, wow, really? >> select sections. >> when they know that it's a lie. so a report from the social security administration in 2023 showed that 18.9 million people were listed as 100 years or

older, but not dead in the database. and the reason why is because it's automated. and some of their dates of death didn't show up, but almost none received any payments. additionally, two weeks ago, donald trump's own acting social security commissioner, his own acting social security commissioner said there's no epidemic of people listed as 150 years or older who are collecting benefits. in fact, get this right now. according to the 2020 census bureau, there are about 80,000 americans alive over the age of 100 out of 330 million. sounds about right. 80,000 people, 80,000 of those 80,000, only 44,000 are getting

social security checks. so they're sitting there going 20 million, 30 million over it. they know it's a lie. they know that the automated system just hasn't put the date of death on some people there. they know that not only are they not paying more people money, but they know that only about 50% of americans who are over the age of 100 are even receiving social security checks. and yet, you see elon musk lie about it. we see larry sit there and let him lie about it. we see larry go on another show talking about it. we see the host of that show not correcting larry, and it goes on and on and on. >> and he said he wanted to. >> really kind. >> of normalize or give people an understanding of what these. >> guys are doing and they're not, you. >> know, not feel like it's so

bad. >> not feel like it's so, so bad. and so larry wanted to do that and said he just lets him lie. but mike barnicle, that's not even the headline out of this. well, joe, who was it? was it was it willie sutton that said you robbed banks? because that's where the money is. was it willie sutton? because that's what elon musk just said. elon musk didn't say we're going after waste, fraud and abuse and medicare. what he said was we got to get rid of social security and medicare. there's about $80 billion right there every year. so just so people don't go, oh, but he was talking about waste, fraud and abuse. do you know how much money was spent on medicare last year? about $80 billion. he's talking about the whole kit and caboodle, whatever that means. he's talking about all of it. he said that's what we have to eliminate the 80. could we just play that part again? because i don't because i know people i

know people in the white house are saying, oh, he's talking about wastewater and, you know, he, he, he says we have to eliminate social security and medicare. >> the fraudulent. >> and then he said they're fraudulent programs and they're used to lure brown people into the united. >> states, basically. >> like so the vote for democrats. so it's not waste, fraud and abuse here. he's talking about eliminating the entire program because he gives the game away by talking about the entire budget for medicare, which is like 70, $80 billion. play it again, sam. >> i mean. >> the waste in entitlement spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal spending, is entitlements. so that that's that's like the big one to eliminate is that that's the sort of half trillion maybe 6 or 700 billion a year. that is also a mechanism by which the

democrats attract and retain illegal immigrants, by essentially paying them to come here and then turning them into voters. >> yes. >> so this is why the democrats are so upset. >> about it. yeah. so that's why. yeah, that's why the democrats let yeah, that's why they support medicare. is that why they support medicare? i don't see republicans voting against medicare. again, the exact quote, the entitlement programs, those are the big ones to eliminate. and again, mike, he just gave the entire budget of medicare per year that he wanted to eliminate. >> joe, as you. >> reported a few moments ago, there are 80,000. >> americans over the age of 100. >> listening to. >> elon musk makes me feel as if. >> i am. >> one of them. >> i mean. >> it's incredible. >> listening to him. >> let's let's. >> stipulate that. >> elon musk is a genius, certified genius. >> let's also stipulate. >> that he has the arrogance of an intellect that.

>> is. >> so far. >> removed from reality that he has the likelihood. >> the high likelihood. >> we've just seen it proven of. going on national. television and. >> stating, basically, medicare. >> and social. >> security are. >> ponzi schemes. >> that. >> are ridiculous. >> they are. >> the life essence. >> of many peoples. >> many americans lives. elon musk. >> does not. >> he does not. know that. >> he'll never realize it. >> but it is a ticket. >> is it a ticket? >> i think. >> chris matthews. to getting back the house of. representatives for the democrats. >> if they continue. >> down. >> this path. >> surely it is. because it. >> was back in 1982. >> with ronald. >> reagan. >> 26 seat pickup. because of the social security. screw up by the republicans when they're talking about making it voluntary. you know, i have to tell you, when i watched that elon musk and i've watched trump with this. this whole plan of his. to start. a trade. >> war. >> i go back to smoot. in 1930, they we lost like $7 billion in

trade and exports because of what. >> the other countries. >> did back to us. and they're all doing it right now. this is all in the playbook. you start a trade war, you got a. trade war. the other countries. >> cut off. >> all their imports, and we get stuck. >> with. >> our agricultural products. >> overloaded in this country. we can't sell them to anybody. it's unbelievable. i look. >> at trump. >> and i keep thinking. trump are. >> the trump. >> casino in atlantic city. that used to be the big casino. you drove right into, into atlantic city. and there was that big casino. it's gone. the trump university, it's gone trump shuttle. we haven't taken that lately, have we? that's gone. this idea that things will turn. out is right out. of chauncey gardner in being there. he's going to he's telling the president, jack warren, don't worry. we're going. to we're going to plant in the spring and we're going to sow in the fall, and everything's going to be great. it isn't going to be great. >> this is a trend line. >> this is an economic an economic. trend line in the market. and it's going to be worse in the next couple of days and worse after that, because he

has started. >> a trade war that. >> we're going to lose. and it's unbelievable that people believe in it. and kudlow, when he sat there and made those weird sounds every time musk. >> said. >> oh, that's good. why didn't he just say, you're lying? you're lying because people come into this country illegally. well, they do come in illegally and they don't get any social security benefits. they pay in all the time because they have to use some phony name, but they don't get any benefits from it. and by the way, they don't vote. got it. someone got. in trouble for once. lying. you lie. you know about the president obama speaking. they don't vote. you got it, buddy. they don't vote. maybe you're voting. maybe you're one of the $5 million guys that bought a ticket here. but they don't vote. the poor people coming here looking for jobs, they don't vote, buddy. and why didn't kudlow say that? just like the democrats on tuesday night, why did the democrats rise up and say we are not paying social security to 160 year olds because there aren't any 160 year olds? they don't exist. unfortunately, we

don't exist at 160. >> it's all wrong. >> the lies and the history, the ignorance of this crowd is unbelievable. and there are people out there. the maga people don't know any better. they got. that's good. and then the strange reaction to everything is fine. it's these grunts they have, and the democrats are absolutely anemic. i'm sorry. anemic. >> after the after the markets closed yesterday, white house officials downplayed. the slide. saying that industry. >> leaders have. >> responded to. >> president trump's. >> agenda of tariffs. >> deregulation and. >> the. >> like and. >> did so enthusiastically. but of course, ali. >> at. >> the same time, a. number of businesses. >> including just. >> delta. >> airlines. >> to name one. >> said they really. >> see that their. >> margins. >> are going to really. >> shrink because. >> they're seeing such. >> uncertainty here. they're coming out against they're saying. >> look. >> the negative. >> impact coming. >> from the trump. >> economic policies. >> so combine. >> that. >> the market's sliding with. >> what elon. >> musk said.

>> and i don't know. >> feels like there might be. >> some real panic. >> from republicans. >> there in washington as. >> they try to put, especially as they. >> try to put together. a deal to. >> keep the government open. >> yeah. the private panic, though, has been palpable for the entire time of this administration because the volatility isn't helping republicans do the already precarious stance that they have to do, not just on government funding, but separately on the larger reconciliation package that will include that 4.5 trillion in tax cuts, which, again, is the backdrop for all of the moves that you're seeing from musk and from other entities within congress and the white house of trying to cut spending. and that's because they're going to have to make up for it somewhere if they're going to do this 4.5 trillion in tax cuts. but i also think that there's a piece of this when it comes to musk. you bet that the d triple c other entities house majority pac, they are going to be cutting that slice of an interview, and they are going to be putting it in every fragile republican district ahead of the midterms. and when chris makes the point, and i think the

frustration is palpable from democratic voters, that i've spoken to democrats themselves who are frustrated with the response. patience, though, is something that democratic leadership is banking on here, guys, because they want moments like this of unforced errors where they say the quiet part out loud, whether it's musk, whether it's someone else. and by the way, musk is saying something that is actually opposed to what the president himself has said, where he has said, i don't want to cut these programs. i don't want to touch these programs. republicans on capitol hill, like rick scott just two years ago, were dinged repeatedly for saying the honest part, which is that there are questions about solvency for some of these programs if you don't reform them. so musk is now cutting against what trump himself has said. but this is what democrats have tried to be patient for the unforced errors that they can then use for political upside in the midterms. joe and mika. >> and that's a bigger problem. and you're right, ali. i mean, the thing is, social security and medicare have to be reformed over time to be safe. they have

to be, but it has to be done in a responsible way. and what elon musk is saying here in the kudlow interview, we could play it for you again, but we don't need to. is he's saying this is the budget of medicare like we that's where all the money is. we've got to get rid of the entitlement program, social security and what he goes, they're the big ones to eliminate. and then he talks about 70, $80 billion a year, 780. i mean, he talks about the entire budget. >> so, mark leibovich, you sat down with former senate majority. >> leader. >> mitch mcconnell for a new atlantic profile in the atlantic. and in it, you write those around the outgoing kentucky republican say he appears liberated after he stepped down from leadership. >> and. >> announced he would not be

seeking reelection. at the same time, you describe. mcconnell as isolated. >> and a. >> lame duck republican who was until recently one. of the most powerful figures in his party. tell us more about what you heard in this interview. >> well, i. >> mean, first of all, i've been doing this a while. i've never. >> had a word. >> spoken to me or spoken a. >> word to mitch mcconnell. >> actually. >> i've spoken. >> many words, which is usually in the hallway, and i get the brick wall face that. >> anyone who's ever. >> covered capitol hill would be familiar with. >> mitch mcconnell. you know. >> the background is probably the most consequential republican. >> senator of. >> this century. probably. >> you know, he. >> got trump's supreme court justices through his tax plan, through probably. >> you. >> know, the most consequential figure, certainly legislatively in trump's first term. now all of a sudden, he. >> is an outlier. >> in the party because. >> one, he. >> and trump. >> hate each other. >> it's widely known. >> trump goes. after him. >> pretty regularly. and two, mcconnell is devoting his his remaining. >> year and a. >> half, two years in the senate

to ukraine. russia fighting for, you know. against russia, ukraine, forward, ukraine, nato. he's a. >> reagan style. >> foreign policy hawk of that era. obviously, that's gone out of fashion inside the gop. so he is said to be liberated. now. he voted against more trump nominees than anyone else in his party. >> i wanted to see what mitch mcconnell. >> being liberated. >> looked like. >> sort of a weird concept. >> for the. >> outgoing senator. and by outgoing, i don't mean outgoing. you know. >> kind of gregarious, but outgoing. he's leaving. i just want to make that clear. it was a strange 22 minute interview, far more expansive than. >> anything you get. >> in the hallway. but that's not saying. >> much. anyway. >> that gives you a flavor. people should read it. >> he's a consequential and also. >> fascinating figure. >> yeah. any any regrets? did you ask him if he had any regrets for not following through with impeachment after january the 6th? he said, let the court system play out. you know, he is not. >> someone who has regrets or

certainly is talking. >> about regrets. >> none whatsoever. i try to. you know, in a couple of different ways, got nowhere. mike tackett, peter and his former colleague at the new york times wrote a pretty a. >> really good. >> biography of him in the last couple of years, had 50 hours of interviews with mcconnell, got nowhere with that. so the short answer is no. >> but you know. >> who knows what goes on, you know, beneath the veneer. >> so peter baker, let me ask you just about what what beyond the distractions of elon and all the things that are going on and even the markets on the hill, are the republicans going to be able to pass their bill, or are they going to be able to keep the government open? >> well, look, that's that's the $55,000 question, $64,000 question. look, look, they have a big hill to climb here, right? because they want to satisfy the far right. they want to satisfy trump. at the same time, democrats have no interest in going along because the president has stolen the power of the purse. if you're a

democrat right now, why would you help republicans to keep the government open? if you're simply going to let trump decide what he's really going to spend, what he's not going to spend, basically, he has taken over the constitutional duty of the congress by deciding on his own which parts of the congressional appropriation bills he's going to follow, which ones he's not. so it's a real hard hill, i think, at this point. and they're playing with fire at the same time. the market's already down. imagine what will happen if there's a government shutdown. >> new york times chief white house correspondent peter baker, thank you so much, chris matthews. thank you. also, thank you for interpreting larry kudlow for us. every time larry thinks elon is lying, he grunts. that's very helpful. and staff writer for the atlantic, mark leibovich, thank you so much. his new piece, a fascinating piece on mitch mcconnell, is online now at the atlantic. >> and still ahead on morning joe, during donald trump's first administration, we. >> saw women's rights. >> threatened across a broad range of issues, from undermining access to birth

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>> welcome back. thousands of people across the globe celebrated international women's day this past weekend. commemorating women's. ongoing fight for equality, as. >> well as focusing on issues like gender. >> violence and. of course, reproductive rights. activists in the u.s. used the day as an opportunity to speak out against president donald trump and his administration's policies, they say, are. dangerous for women. joining us now, the chair and vice chairs of the democratic. women's caucus, congresswoman teresa. teresa leger-fernandez of new mexico, hillary scholten of michigan, amelia sykes of ohio, good to have you all with us. congresswoman teresa leger fernandez, i'll start with you. many abortion rights activists seem very discouraged, given the losses and losses and losses that we have faced over the past few years. and yet, from what

i'm hearing, they do not see this fight as over. it is absolutely ongoing and. >> we need to remember. >> i want to give a plug for the democratic. women's caucus. we are a historic 96. >> women strong. >> we are battle tested. >> we come from. a tradition of being the warrior. >> women, and we are not. giving up. and in fact, we. are more. energized than ever because we see exactly what they're. >> doing from. reproductive health care. >> they just gave up a case where women are at risk of losing their lives in a pregnancy. trump just dropped that case, and i could go on and do a long list of the ways in which trump and musk are attacking women's health, and we are rising up and we are not. giving up. >> so we were talking, congresswoman, right before the segment began, about how this is a democratic women's caucus that's focused on quote unquote, women's issues, but everything is an issue that touches women economics, most importantly. and

i'll talk to both of you as members from midwest states. we've talked about michigan on my show before, but talk about the impacts in a state like ohio of these tariffs that we're seeing right now. >> they are going to. >> be awful for a state. >> like ohio. >> now, when you think about ohio. >> and tariffs. >> folks often cheer because. >> they didn't. >> like the effects of nafta. but these tariffs are not strategic. they're not thoughtful. and this is causing a lot of chaos. the stock market has been dropping. and we're looking at an additional $2,000 per family. everyone is concerned about how much everything costs gas groceries housing health care. and these tariffs will almost guarantee that prices will go up. families will continue to suffer economically because. >> of this very. >> reckless and chaotic behavior. >> and we. >> just don't understand why the president wants to harm midwestern families like ours. >> and we've talked about this, the idea that you've gone into conservative areas in your district and expected to hear maybe support for this, and that's the opposite of what you

heard. >> it's the. >> exact opposite on the ground. people are so upset about what is happening. trump does not have a mandate. it was. >> a close. >> election, and he certainly. >> doesn't have. >> a mandate to cut essential service programs, let alone. elon musk. talking last night. you know how he wants to cut. >> entitlement programs. >> you think about that. >> the richest man in the world saying that he wants to take away people's hard earned. social security dollars, that they paid into it. they're called. entitlement programs. >> for a reason. you're entitled to it. >> because it's. >> your money. you paid. >> into social security programs. >> so when people ask us what are women's issues, it's the economy. you know, women mothers are. >> concerned about the bottom line. >> they're concerned. >> about the rising. cost of goods. and amelia is exactly right. you know, tariffs have a place. to reach a strategic end. >> there's nothing strategic. >> about this. what's the goal other. than wreaking. havoc and harming. >> some of. >> our most valuable trading partners in north america? >> and then the other piece of

this to the work that you guys are actively going to be doing later today, is potentially avoiding a government shutdown. my understanding is that most of the democratic caucus is not going to lend a yes vote to the continuing resolution, in large part because one of the ways the white house is theoretically getting some republicans on board is by saying, don't worry, we're going to do this as a kick the can funding method, but we're still going to ignore some of the ways that congress says we should spend money. is that the democratic thinking? are you guys comfortable with the fact that this could lead to a shutdown? >> i think. >> democrats are united in the idea that congress is the one that has to decide how we spend money, where we prioritize, we're elected. it's article. >> one, right? >> and the reason. >> we are winning. >> in court right. now is because trump and musk don't have the authority to shut down agencies to fire the people. but what republicans want to do with this funding bill is. >> give that authority. >> to musk. remember, that's. >> what we need to remember. >> they are. giving musk the

authority to shut down what aspects of the. >> government he. >> wants, and that is something that. >> we should not. >> forget, that because he does not believe in our priorities. >> we are not. >> going to let musk do that. and every. >> republican who. >> votes for this. >> funding bill. >> is giving up their own responsibility to decide what do your. constituents want and need? they are giving up the ability to decide how do. >> you fund those community projects? >> they are taking. away important dollars for their communities. and that's why i think you see democrats speaking against this bill, because it will be disastrous for our communities. >> yeah. >> one thing i think it's important to. >> remember about this spending proposal is it is not a clean cr. >> which is what they're calling it. >> which is what they're. >> calling it. absolutely not. it cuts $860. >> million. >> in cancer. >> research for service members. >> veterans and. >> military families. cancels out. >> that burn. >> pit funding. >> you know, it.

>> cuts $222.8. >> billion in funding for veterans exposed to burn. >> pits and. >> rent subsidies. >> for 32,000. >> low. >> income households. >> you know, the high cost. >> of housing is a huge issue in my district. there's nothing clean about this cr. this date. >> march 14th, is. >> a. >> date republicans. >> set for. >> themselves last week. >> you know, they were putting. appliance bills of rights on the house floor instead of dealing. >> with the budget. >> democrats are still. >> at the table, but republicans are in. >> charge. >> and they need to come up. >> with. >> a solution to keep the government open. >> are you a no on this? are all of you nos on this? >> we're voting no. i'm voting no. because i am scared, quite frankly, to go back to my. community and talk to them about how this bill is going to. take our taxpayer dollars, that my community spent and is sending to the federal government in order to reinvest. >> back in. >> our district. they are. ripping that money away. we're talking. >> about. >> water infrastructure. we're talking about fire stations. we're talking about things to

create and keep our public safety. and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle want me to go back to my community and say, you should not trust the federal government because they're not going to carry out what. >> they. >> said they were going to do. and in service of our public service, ensuring. >> that we have. >> fire stations, that we have police cruisers. >> that we have. >> the. >> addiction services that we need across this country because they want to. give a blank check and authority to elon musk, someone who does not have the pulse of my community, who has not been to barberton, ohio, who does not know what it means to have insufficient water infrastructure. and you need sewer lines to make the decisions. the richest man in the world is going to make decisions on behalf of some of the poorest communities, and taking away those resources away from them. it is unacceptable, and this is not something i'm going to be willing to put my name and my constituents behind, because this is their money that they're taking away. >> yeah, mika, these are the concerns, frankly, that i'm hearing, obviously, at the table

here, but from other democrats, too, as we talk about this funding conversation. >> chair and vice chairs of the democratic women's caucus, congresswomen to wrestle leger-fernandez hillary skelton and amelia sykes, thank you so. >> much for your service. >> we appreciate it. and thanks for coming on this morning and coming up on morning joe, comedian and co-host of the daily show, michael costa, will join us with a look at his new memoir, lucky loser adventures in tennis and comedy. morning joe will be right back. >> yellow and black is back. >> save a lot. >> of. >> green this spring at lumber liquidators. waterproof flooring as low as $0.69. >> a square foot. pre-finished solid saddle hickory flooring is solid saddle hickory flooring is just 2.99 a square here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love.

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...game-changing golf experience. signage to. >> the next level. >> congresswoman rashida. tlaib had a dry. >> erase board. >> that she. updated throughout. >> the night with. protest messages like. >> stop lying. >> to the american. >> people or no king. >> or that's a lie. >> and she went. >> through a lot. >> of them. >> she had. >> one that. >> said, who is who has luigi's. >> sex tape? she did that. cool. >> s these markers are getting. >> me high. >> and she had one. >> message that. >> especially resonated with me. >> it said lucky. >> loser by. >> michael costa in. >> stores march 11th. >> now. >> yeah. >> i know, shameless. >> that was senior correspondent and co-host of the daily show, michael costa, with some creative analysis of last.

>> week's joint session. >> of congress and a subtle plug of his new book, which is out today. its full title, lucky loser adventures in tennis and. >> comedy. >> the memoir chronicles his time as a professional tennis player, as well as. >> a stand up. >> comedian. >> and the. emmy award winner joins us now. michael, thanks for being here. congratulations right here on the cover. in fact. >> it is. >> your depicted with both a mic and a tennis ball. and we should note. >> you were. >> the 864th. >> ranked men's singles player in the world. now we should note you're a last minute fill in the 863rd player. >> couldn't be here. >> i don't even know who that would be. but i can promise you, the 863rd. best tennis player doesn't have his. ranking as his email signature, which i still. have to this day. i haven't played competitive tennis in 20 years, but i'm so proud. >> of that number. >> that that's every email ends. >> that i. >> mean, 864 is, jokes aside. you're a. >> top 1000 tennis. >> player in the world. >> which is remarkable. >> so talk to us about that. >> first, the. >> tennis part of this and. >> what link did you see? i

assume. >> the drive to be good at tennis probably. is that the. >> same place where the drive comes to be good at calming everything else? >> yeah. >> playing professional tennis is one of. >> the hardest things. >> i mean, it's. >> it's nearly. >> impossible. >> physically demanding. >> mentally. >> you're alone, you're. >> traveling the world. >> it's a truly global sport. you make no money. >> the first. >> pro tournament. >> i ever played. >> in was in zihuatanejo, mexico. >> if that. >> sounds familiar. >> that's where andy dufresne. >> escaped prison. >> to in the shawshank redemption. i lose. first round. >> i make $111. there's two men. >> watching my. >> match. >> and i. >> go up to them after and i say, hey. >> thanks for watching my match. >> and they said, no, we just have the court after you. >> it's lonely. >> you're poor. >> but that. >> persistence. the self-belief, the work ethic. >> i found. >> out later. >> when i pivoted. >> to comedy, taught me. >> how to be successful. >> i think, in anything. >> but it definitely, definitely. >> served me. >> in in comedy.

>> so what. >> is harder now? the pursuit. >> of a tennis. >> goal is incredibly hard. >> yeah. >> and incredibly competitive. >> yeah, the. pursuit of writing. >> comedy. >> right. >> is both dangerous. >> to your ego. >> for sure. >> very tough to crack. yeah. >> especially as a novice. >> going into it. yeah. >> so what's. >> harder. >> getting to wimbledon. >> or. getting to the daily show? >> well, i. >> never got to wimbledon. >> my career. >> high was. >> 864in the world. >> some people. >> say. >> oh, did you play wimbledon? >> and i go, they. >> don't. >> let 864. >> people into wimbledon. >> it's not an 11 month long tournament. i think tennis is harder. i always knew as a comic. i thought i could make $25,000 a year. >> doing comedy. >> i could. >> play bowling alleys. >> i could. >> do the. >> bit where i ask an. >> audience member to come. >> up. behind me and put their arms. >> through. the armpits, and we could. >> do the. >> you know, you can. >> you i could. >> scrape out a living. >> in comedy. >> nothing to. >> me is harder than. >> trying to make.

>> it as a pro tennis player. >> but to be great. >> at comedy. >> that's the pursuit. >> that's the goal. >> we're still. >> chasing. >> still trying to do that. >> when you. >> were playing. >> tennis competitively? >> yeah. >> were you. >> also funny. on the side? >> yeah. funny during the game. >> when i would double. >> fault that. >> i'd. >> do it in a funny way. no, i wasn't, i was. >> competitive and. >> serious. >> but in between. >> matches at these. >> tournaments where. >> i have. >> five days. >> off because i lost first round. >> and i'm six days in netherlands, japan, korea. >> mexico. >> i would take these journals and i would write funny things. >> that happened to. >> me, funny interactions with people. and when i finally hung up the racket. i was hired at university of michigan. >> as the men's assistant coach. >> i was finally in a art centric town. >> in ann arbor. >> and i had these journals. of jokes. and when i wasn't. >> coaching. >> i said. >> let's. >> go try. >> them at the open mic. and that's what started it. so losing at tennis in. these exercises of writing. >> funny. >> things is. >> what became. >> my first. >> comedy set, which i talk about in the book and certainly co-host the daily show. you've achieved great, great triumphs. it does seem you mentioned a word earlier, solo. that seems

to be the biggest. >> link between these. >> two things. >> tennis is a it's not a team sport. you're out there alone, comedy, you're on stage in the spotlight alone. >> yeah. >> your problem. >> solving alone. >> there's so. many parallels. >> in tennis. >> it's you. >> versus your opponent. >> your problem solving. >> it's personal. >> it hurts when you lose. >> it feels triumphant. >> when you win. >> in comedy. >> it might not be the. >> comedian versus. >> the audience. >> but it feels like that sometimes. you ever. >> do a late show in. >> a bachelorette. >> party who's. >> been drinking before. >> that feels. >> like you versus the audience, and it's. >> it's it. >> you learn so much because. >> you're forced. >> to solve. >> these problems alone. >> and here we are. >> that's why. >> it's fun. >> to. >> come talk to real humans like. >> you, too. >> well. >> approximately humans. we really appreciate it. the new book, lucky loser adventures in tennis and comedy is on sale now. author and senior correspondent as well as co-host of the daily show, michael kosta. >> thank you. >> so much. and we should note michael has a show tomorrow

night here in manhattan at city winery. great space. tickets are available. online now. go see them up next here on morning joe. we'll take. >> a look at. >> some of the stories, making. >> the front pages. >> of papers across the. >> country. >> including a. controversial auction. >> proposal by. republicans to. >> help pay. >> for president trump's tax cuts. >> we'll explain that. >> next on morning joe. your name. name. >> in l ever feel like a spectator in your own life with chronic migraine? 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. in a survey, 91% of users wish they'd started sooner. so why wait? talk to your doctor. botox® effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. those with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. side effects may include allergic reactions like rash, breathing problems, dizziness,

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>> welcome back. time now for a look at the. >> morning papers. >> our favorite, the boston globe reports on how the recent cuts to the national oceanic and atmospheric administration are affecting new england fishermen. according to the paper, some of the federal employees instrumental to the spring fishing. season were laid off. the globe. >> notes fishermen. >> and organizations they work with say that. between the layoffs and a trump issued executive order to limit new regulations, it's unclear when or if the. >> fishery will be able to open. >> to texas now, the. austin american-statesman reports that senator ted cruz and other. republicans want to resume auctioning off a portion. of government radio frequencies to help. companies like at&t and. verizon build out their 5g networks. >> the auctions. >> were suspended during trump's first term after the faa. >> the. >> department of. >> defense and nasa all warned

that the sale of certain frequencies could interfere. >> with their. ability to. >> track things like hurricanes, as well as. incoming missiles. but republicans. >> are hoping the. >> auctions can. raise close to. $100 billion in federal revenue and staying in texas. the texarkana gazette reports that the texas state senate is on the verge of. passing legislation that would require public school. >> classrooms to display the ten commandments. under the proposal. >> schools can either accept. >> donations of ten commandments depictions. >> or use district funds to purchase them. at least 14 other states have introduced similar legislation. there will likely be a legal challenge in texas, which could work its way all the way to the u.s. supreme court. still ahead here on morning joe, we'll go through elon musk's alarming new comments about. possible massive cuts to social security, medicare and medicaid. plus, nbc's keir.

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powering the connectivity of the pga tour. comcast business real value from your life insurance when you need it with abacus. >> we will go to the markets where it is not a pretty picture. on this monday dow down by near 500. nasdaq getting. >> bludgeoned today. >> down more than 600 points. that's more than 3%. so it's. >> ugly across the. >> board as we say joe. the detox continues. and it is

remarkable how quickly the markets have moved from optimism over trump 2.0 to pessimism over how this thing is. >> all playing out. >> tesla is a perfect example. >> of what we're calling. >> the tesla. chainsaw massacre. >> it's down. >> again. 50% drawdown from its. high seven. >> weeks in a row, the longest. >> losing streak ever. >> the s&p is now. >> at its lowest level since september. >> since september before the. >> election. fresh data today is not helping quell recession fears. >> and the nasdaq. >> is seeing the biggest losses. once again, you're taking a. >> live look right now. >> at the dow. >> the numbers are tanking on fears. >> of a. >> recession and trade war. 800 points for the dow. in fact, right now we're pretty much at session lows. >> the s&p. >> is down 2.75%. the nasdaq down four and a quarter for its worst day since 2022. >> what started as an ugly day on wall street has turned downright hideous. broad based, selling across the board. and, you know, you could call it a sinkhole that's opened up under the nasdaq. there's a lot of.

>> uncertainty right now. >> trade policy, tax. >> policy, spending policy, immigration policy. >> and geopolitics are all quite uncertain. >> and so. >> i. >> think markets are reacting to that. >> maybe scott should. >> do this. >> read his old boss's book. >> george. >> soros the age of turbulence, where. >> he talks about herd mentality. the herd is really. >> negative right now and. >> it's focused on tariffs. >> i think. >> some of. >> this is. >> a sales job. they have to go out. >> there and maybe stop talking about tariffs. >> so much. >> and start. >> talking about how we're going to infuse the economy. we're going to we're going to release the animal spirits. >> we're going to. >> deregulate stuff. >> and look at just some of the coverage yesterday. >> as. >> president trump's tariffs and recession. fears sparked a massive sell off on wall street. we're going to get an update. >> on the markets from. >> cnbc in just. >> a moment. >> of course, headlines talk about wall street journal market plunges recession worries spread. you have a lot of analysts that that had been predicting a soft landing. move away from that and talk about

the radicalism of policies. jp morgan chase economic team saying because of the radicalism, the extremism of the policies, they're moving off their more optimistic views. the new york times also talking about how how the economy also, mika getting hammered by what happened yesterday on wall street. >> yeah, we're going to have all of that. also this morning we'll bring you the latest on the diplomatic talks between u.s. and ukrainian officials in saudi arabia following that disastrous. meeting at the white house, plus, health and human services secretary robert kennedy jr has a new theory. >> it's just shocking. >> for what's causing. >> it's shockingly stupid. >> the measles outbreak across the country. >> he runs hhs. >> a theory that has no scientific standing. absolutely not like that. with us, we have the co-host of our fourth hour, jonathan lemire. >> he's a contributing. >> writer at the atlantic. >> covering the. >> white house. and national politics, managing editor at the

bulwark. >> sam stein. >> joins us, former treasury official. >> and. >> morning joe economic analyst steve rattner back with us, especially for today. good day to have him and. us national editor at the financial times. editor luce joins us this morning. let's dive. >> right in. >> we're going to get to the markets, and we're going to get to the market crashes, and we're going to get to all the concerns about the coming recession. but first, some breaking news on an interview yesterday that elon musk had with larry kudlow. >> elon musk referred to the federal. >> spending on. >> programs such as social security, medicare and medicaid as the areas that need to be eliminated. >> in an. >> interview yesterday. >> musk also claimed democrats used such programs to attract illegal immigrants and to turn them into voters. take a look. >> i mean, the. >> waste in entitlement spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal spending, is entitlements. so

that that's that's like the big one to eliminate is that that's the sort of half trillion maybe 6 or 700 billion a year. that is also a mechanism by which the democrats attract and retain illegal immigrants, by essentially paying them to come here and then turning them into voters. >> yes. >> so this is why the democrats are so upset about the situation, because they're losing, you know, if we turn off this gigantic money magnet for illegal immigrants, then they will leave and they will lose voters. >> you know, there are times when democrats have put words in republicans mouths about social security, medicare. here, he said the quiet part out. loud and actually said social

security and medicare is where all the money is, and those are the ones that need to be eliminated. now we've we've we've we've, of course, seen him say other things that have been deeply damaging politically. but but that is extraordinarily damaging politically. and steve rattner, i want to do a fact fact check also. he wasn't talking about the what people up to 160 years of age. that that donald trump incorrectly said, we're getting social security payments. he's saying that's where the money is. by the way, you and i, we always say that we don't say eliminate them. we also don't say that people are. you got democrats using social security and medicare to attract illegal immigrants to america to vote for them. that's i must say, that is a new and quaint approach to the two most important programs for

americans, retired americans. but that's what he said. but i but let's do a fact check on the other part. just so when that comes up about donald trump went on and on and on in the speech about people getting social security checks up to 160, it's that's not the case. the fact is that they have stayed on the rolls because it's an automated roll where they didn't get pulled off. i want to give you some numbers. you're a number guy in 20 2020. in 2023, social security report found that only 44,000 americans of the 18.9 million individuals listed over 100 years old in the database were receiving payments. in 2020. us census bureau there were 80,139 people in america who were over 100. so that tells

you that there are almost twice as many americans alive, over 100 as there are americans who are receiving social security payment checks. so the idea that there's this massive fraud is ridiculous. 80,000 americans alive over 100 years of age, not, you know, and half of them not getting social security benefits. so again, it undermines it. this is again, this is a lie that musk continued to tell yesterday. but but also just overall talking about how those are the programs that need to be eliminated. again, pretty shocking to most americans. i would think. >> yeah. >> joe, look. other presidents have talked about even trimming social security, privatizing social security. all of those ideas have gone down in flames because the american people like

their social security. they like their medicare. i was with somebody the other day who a senator who conducts town halls, and he said he said and the one thing one of his constituents said, and the one thing that you have to be sure of, i don't want the government messing around with my medicare. they don't even realize medicare in some cases is a government program. they just like it because it takes care of their their health care needs. and so this has become part of the fabric of our our of our social net. it's something people depend on. it's something people pay into. and the notion of eliminating it is, i think, going to blow up in the faces of elon musk and donald trump. >> now, president trump. >> himself. >> i'm wondering, but before we go to you, jonathan lemire. hey, tj, could you cue up that clip again? i just want to make sure that we didn't misunderstand what elon had to say. he's talking to larry kudlow. and it's fascinating that mike and i were watching another network

last night where they were interviewing larry kudlow. it's fascinating that this part of the interview never came up. let's play it again, because it's kind of i mean. >> the point in entitlement spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal spending is entitlements. so that that's that's like the big one to eliminate is that that's the sort of half trillion, maybe 6 or 700 billion a year. that is also a mechanism by which the democrats attract and retain illegal immigrants, by essentially paying them to come here and then turning them into voters. >> yes. >> so this is why the democrats are so upset about this situation, because they're losing, you know, if we turn off this gigantic money magnet for illegal immigrants, then they will leave and they'll lose voters. >> so lose. president trump. repeatedly has said he wouldn't

touch social security. other times, he's waffled. suggested maybe there'd. >> be some something to do on the margins there. >> but this is pretty clear. >> what elon musk. >> had to say yesterday. $700 billion is a lot of money. maybe even more. and it's social security. >> is known. >> as the third rail of american politics for a reason. >> no one touches it, certainly. >> without devastating political consequences. so this is now. musk has now supplied democrats with yet another ready made. campaign commercial. wielding that chainsaw on stage at cpac and indiscriminately cutting federal. >> government. >> programs to hurt red state blue state voters alike. and now this. >> saying. >> he wants to not. >> reform. >> even just eliminate. social security, which would have impacts on just about every american. >> it would. and it's not the first time. remember, jonathan, he's also described it as a ponzi scheme, which betrays a complete ignorance of how ponzi

schemes work. this is a pay as you go system. people pay into it all their lives, and then they draw out of it after they retire or get disability or whatever. the one group that doesn't draw out of it are illegal immigrants. they come in, they work, they pay into. >> it. >> but they don't draw out of it because they're illegal immigrants. let alone come here because of the magnet, as musk calls it, of social security. so this is the most extraordinary misreading both of how social security works, and also of the role of illegal immigrants in the us economy. and i have to say, i keep correcting. maybe i'm being pedantic, but entitlements is the wrong word. if you pay into something, you are investing in your future, your money. so in the expectation you'll get it back after you retire. any attempt,

as i think trump knows to mess with that is political dynamite. elon musk is elon musk's political standing in this town is falling almost as fast as tesla's share price. he is. he is an albatross around trump's neck. >> not that fast. >> let's. let's not overstate. >> i mean. let's not overstate. >> tesla there. i mean, they've lost like 750 billion in market cap over, like, i don't know, the past month or two. yeah. yeah. but real quick sam stein real quickly. and then we're going to get to, to the markets unfortunately crashing yesterday. sam really quickly because there's going to be a lot of scrambling going on, i'm sure, in the white house about what elon musk said and what he didn't say. and i'm sure they're already trying to apologize for him on other networks and try to explain that his words are being wrenched from the proper context. elon musk said social security, medicare. those are the two big programs that need to be eliminated. and he didn't talk about the lie that people are up to 160 getting social security that did that. no, what

he said was there's like $700 billion there. that's where the money is. that's what needs to be eliminated. >> right. >> the most generous. >> reading of this comment. >> is he was saying. >> there is. >> waste and fraud. >> up to. $700 billion. >> in social security. >> no, there's there are no statistics. >> out there to support. that claim. >> and it leads you to the. >> conclusion that. >> they are either going to manufacture. >> waste, fraud and abuse. >> in an effort. >> to cut the program or. >> they're just. >> making it up. >> honestly. >> and i. >> have to imagine that one. >> this is. >> part. >> of a larger program now to go after the entitlement programs. the reason you have to imagine. >> is because elon continues. >> to talk. about this. >> and then. >> of course. >> donald trump brings it up in. >> in. >> in the. >> state. >> of the. >> the state. >> of the. >> union address. i know it's not a state of the union address. and so clearly. >> their eyes are. >> set on this. on top. >> of. >> that. doge has been doing under the radar a.

>> number of cuts to. >> the social. security administration. and that is. >> the. >> agency that. >> implements the program privatization, automation, cutting down offices, all. >> of that. >> are going to hurt and hamper. >> the program and. >> its administration. >> you can already tell. >> on capitol hill there is. >> incredible discomfort. >> from republicans. >> and democrats over what they've done to. >> date. >> and they've just gotten started. >> this is very. >> kindly an albatross that is going to hang over them. trump knows. >> this. >> which is what's fascinating to me, is that he. knows how bad this. >> can be. >> politically for him. and yet he's not reining. >> in. >> elon when it comes to. >> social security. >> coming up, the latest from saudi. arabia on the push for a peace deal in russia's war on ukraine. nbc's keir simmons has the very latest when morning joe the very latest when morning joe comes right here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

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economists quoted by the wall street journal, it's going to happen again. the challenge for donald trump and the administration is in some ways do no harm. i mean, do no harm on on tariffs that are going to be inflationary, do no harm on a monetary policy. that's going to be too inflationary. we've got a $36 trillion debt. our our economy has been fueled by debt from the federal government since 2007. it just has. republicans, they need to be careful when they take control. they need to be careful because right now they have an economy that's the envy of the world. and when you're sitting with a lead like that, you don't want to move too fast. we have a strong economy, but it's on the razor's edge as far as inflationary pressures go. we've got a stock market that warren

buffett and a lot of people a hell of a lot smarter than me, think is overvalued, overpriced. right now we we've got the bubble, the crypto bubble. we're just just just crazy, maddening profits right now, literally based on nothing but this idea that markets go up forever. and this idea, this threat coming from china, this idea that everybody has to line up and deal with america or there's nobody else for them to deal with right now. you know, we're finding out it is not a unipolar world. leaders across the world have said the united states economy is the envy of the world. before donald trump got into office. it's not looking quite that way right now. >> so that's joe. over the past few months, and with respect, we also had very honest conversations with members of

the business community, ceos, even billionaires that supported trump. and the reaction was. >> oh. >> joe. >> he's not going to do that. he's you're crazy. he's not going to do that. and yet, donald trump's been quite consistent about this. and now. >> he is doing. >> what he has said. >> he was going to do. >> well, i talked to a lot of people yesterday who had been brushing these warnings aside for months now, and they're not quite as confident this morning. they were not quite as confident yesterday. steve rattner, we've had this discussion before to the united states economy was the envy of the world, but it was incumbent upon republicans, incumbent upon republicans, to do no harm. that is a classic edmund burke conservative approach. simon edmund burke, conservative and i have been for

250 years now, but do no harm. and of course, this arrogant notion that the united states could tell the rest of the world, take it or leave it, acting as if this were, you know, 2000 or 2001 where where we were the only game in town. it's just not the reality. and so i've been warning of three bubbles, the fiscal bubble, which still will explode at some point if republicans don't get responsible. and that will be the ugliest bubble of all. the crypto bubble that is starting to pop. and of course, the stock market bubble. but as all the analysts that i read of yesterday, i'd love to get your input. we're talking about it's the back and forth. it's the reckless, the radical policies. it's what jp morgan chase called extreme policies that republicans are pushing that actually are leading us down a

pathway of this economic chaos that we saw play out in front of our eyes yesterday. >> yeah. >> joe, i think your last point is, is an important one as well as, of course, the rest of it. look, they came in. they i guess you could say they did. they said what they said they were going to do. but i don't think anybody really expected. nobody expected it was going to be this extreme, that elon musk was going to go in there wielding his doge sledgehammer, smashing away at whatever he felt like, talking off the cuff about social security or this or that. but and so the policies they've actually articulated that they're doing are very extreme. but what is really bothering the market as much as anything is uncertainty. you heard a reference in the earlier clip to the earlier guest to animal spirits. animal spirits was a coin, a phrase coined by john maynard keynes. and what it really means is that you can have policies, but a lot of what

goes on in an economy is how people feel. are they excited? are they optimistic? do they believe it's going to get better or are they worried? and in trump 1.0, whether you liked it or not, at least from the point of view of the business community, it was sort of clear, it was logical, and it was things they liked in terms of tax changes, regulatory changes and so forth. this administration is all over the place, and one day they're cutting social security, the next day they're firing everybody at usaid, and then they're rehiring somebody because the courts tell them to, or because they realize they can't get the social security checks out without these people. and the tariffs go on. the tariffs go off, they get suspended, they get threatened in other places. and this is what businesses really can't live with or consumers the uncertainty of not knowing what's going to happen. and so you do see consumers cutting back on spending. it fell in january for the first time in a long time. you do see, for example, the deal market companies buying and selling

each other almost at a standstill because nobody knows what the rules of the game are going to be for the companies once they they merge. and it's kind of chaos is another way to put it. and so the stock market sees all that and says, as you just pointed out, it's kind of priced for perfection. it's had a great run. and why are we sitting up here at these high levels when there's all this crazy stuff going on in the world, and anything could. >> bring. >> down the economy. >> again, price for perfection. which is why, again, do no harm. that's what the warning was about. and i've got to say, anybody that didn't see this coming during the presidential election. >> wasn't listening. >> wasn't listening, and they certainly weren't listening to us, because what did i bet you? i talked to andrew ross sorkin 100 times saying, andrew, what are the two things that the market hates? they hate instability, right? first of all, and they hate unpredictability. and that's exactly what they've been given. and that's why the market, i just got to say really quickly

because the word because i think it was charlie gasparino that talked about animal spirits, quoting john maynard keynes. you know, i was i was at a, i was at a roundtable at loose and i think we talked about this i certainly talked about it on the air time and time again at a roundtable at king's college in cambridge back in december, and also talked with a lot of bankers and economic thinkers in london. and i came back and i talked about it on the show a lot. we were the envy of the world. our economy was the envy of the world. and they kept talking about animal spirits. they kept talking about the extraordinary economic run the united states had had over the past two, three, four years. london wanted to emulate that. berlin wanted to emulate that. paris wanted to emulate that. they said, you all are just light years ahead of us, that it's hard to believe. that was just three, three and a half months ago. nobody is saying in

london, paris, berlin, across the world we would like to be more like the united states economically today. nobody's saying it. you talk to them now and they're like, man, we can't figure out what what you guys are doing. and far, far from wanting to emulate us. now they're saying we're going to have to go it alone. >> yeah, it's actually remarkable. the last few days, the shift of stock market hopes and projections across the atlantic. i mean, germany has had a so-called sputnik moment. we talk about john maynard keynes. the germans are now talking about real spending, real reflation. and so are the french. even the british are beginning to sort of move under keir starmer. so the animal spirits that the market is expecting to see have crossed the atlantic. and i think trump inherited pretty much the

perfect economy from a macroeconomic point of view. on january the 20th, there had been a soft landing. inflation was under control. the magnificent seven stocks were booming for good reason. and in seven short weeks, he's turned america from the star performer into the laggard. it's hard to think of any other president who, in that short period of time, could have shifted the markets from bull to bear, as trump has done in the last couple of months. it's remarkable. >> coming up, a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including the arrest of a former president on charges of crimes against humanity. we'll explain that straight ahead on morning that straight ahead on morning joe. oh, my leaffilter? i just scheduled an appointment online

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here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, questions over the complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! future of tiktok in the u.s. >> reporting from. >> philadelphia. >> el paso. >> and the palisades, virginia. >> from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. >> all of this can be overwhelming, but it is important to remember there are still checks and balances. there's a lot being thrown at the american people right now, and it is really important to pay attention to it, but it is just as important to recognize how many of those things are getting announced. but they're not happening at all, or at least not yet. just try to remember we are not looking at the final score. we are still in the first quarter. keep your pads on. the game has just

begun. >> russia has stepped up its attacks on. ukrainian territory, and now ukraine is. launching retaliatory strikes. russia's defense ministry said overnight, its air defenses shot down over 300 ukrainian drones in ten different regions. this video shows the moment a drone slammed into the top of a building in russia's moscow region around 4 a.m. local time. that comes as ukrainian officials are meeting right now with secretary of state marco rubio and other u.s. officials for talks aimed at ending the years long war with russia. on the plane to saudi arabia yesterday, secretary rubio previewed today's discussions. >> i don't have any predetermined words i need them to say, but i think primarily it's. >> just a sense of where they. >> are and where their. >> understanding is. >> that there's i think both sides need to come to an.

understanding that there's no. >> military solution. >> to this. >> situation. >> the russians. >> can't. conquer all of ukraine. >> and obviously. >> it will be very. >> difficult for. >> ukraine in. any reasonable time period to sort of force. >> the russians back all the way to where they were in 2014. >> so the. >> only solution to. >> this war. is diplomacy. >> and getting. >> them. >> to a. >> table where. >> that's possible. >> today's meeting will not involve ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, although he was in the same city yesterday where talks are being held right now. zelenskyy met with the saudi crown prince, saying on social media they had a, quote, detailed discussion on the steps and conditions needed to end the war. >> let's bring in nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, live from jeddah, saudi arabia. keir, i must say what marco rubio, what american secretary of state said yesterday on the airplane, may have made big headlines that

ukraine is going to have to give up territory. but i must say it is the identical thing. and neither, neither gentleman will like me saying this is the identical thing. but then chairman of the joint chiefs, mark milley, told me in 2023, before the vaunted spring offensive by the ukrainians. and he's like, no, that's not going to drive the russians out of ukraine. they're going to have to come to a brokered peace for the same reasons that marco rubio was saying that on the plane over to saudi arabia yesterday. what? tell us what's what's going on over there now. what what sort of the vibe if we're to use the word of 2024 in saudi arabia right now around these peace talks. >> well, joe, those talks have been going on now for more than an hour in an adjacent room from here, the secretary of state, marco rubio, holding up a thumbs up when he was asked as he headed into the room, the lead

the leader of the ukrainian delegation, andrei yermak, talking about the americans as seeming constructive. i mean, we've been talking about in recent days, joe, right, about how president trump's language appears to have been changing, suggesting that it's going to be more difficult to get to a ceasefire. and i think both ukraine and russia have been giving president trump a lesson in that in recent days. that drone strike on moscow overnight. right. as these talks are getting started, described by a local official as the biggest drone strike on moscow of this war, at least two killed, 17 injured, according to that local. those local officials, on the other hand, odesa hit again overnight in ukraine and there have been these escalating attacks by the russians in recent days. so the reality is, while the americans and the ukrainians are talking here, the russians and

ukrainians only talk to each other in the language of war. and that is the difficulty. we do have a picture of the kinds of things that they're going to be talking about in the room right now. you mentioned marco rubio on the plane there. he was kind of hedging a little bit, not giving too much away, talking about that. they are trying to get a sense from both ukrainians and the russians about what exactly where exactly they stand and how far apart they are. they're a long way apart, ostensibly, given what you're seeing on the battlefield. but there you are, the diplomacy now going on. and president zelenskyy, who met with mohammed bin salman, the crown prince of saudi arabia, who is playing a mediating role, talking overnight about some of the things that he had a conversation with the crown prince about, including the russians sending back ukrainian prisoners, including children.

he's talked about the potential for security guarantees, he says, with the crown prince, that, of course, the vexed question that led to that disastrous meeting in the oval office, the ukrainians, still talking about security guarantees, not giving up on that. and then the russians real quick. we are hearing from the russians this morning. and again, we've said many times, haven't we? the russians are not in a hurry. today, the kremlin spokesman, dmitry peskov, saying we shouldn't have rose tinted glasses about our relationship with the united states. >> chiara it's jonathan. >> what is the progress, as best you can tell on. >> this. >> minerals deal that many thought was going to be. >> signed in the oval. >> office a couple of weeks back wasn't. >> when that meeting devolved. into tensions. >> and some anger even. and as well as the idea of territory you just mentioned, the security guarantees ukraine still hoping to get. is there an early. >> sense from. >> what the u.s. is telling ukraine what they may have to settle for in their estimation. >> in terms of getting their.

>> land back? >> yeah. i mean, on the question of the minerals deal, look, it's possible that at this meeting they signed something. i think that's unlikely, but this is a work in progress. just to make another point, there are two senior u.s. officials in the delegation there. there are three senior ukrainian officials. that's because the envoy, steve witkoff, isn't here. he's gone to qatar. so you get the sense that things are being done on the fly and that we've had that sense for some time. and that continues. and i guess in a way, jonathan, that goes to your second question about, you know, what are the what are the americans saying they'll give and what are they demanding of the ukrainians? it's tricky to tell. look, you make a good point, joe, about the question of territory. people will look back and ask whether the us gave up the idea

of ukraine conceding territory before they even got into negotiations. whether that was wrong or whether it was simply a question of facts on the ground. but but certainly, as we've said many times to, the negotiations are happening right now. right? we talk about people getting around the table there, around the table in the room next door. there's talk about, you know, potentially a us official going to the to russia. we don't have that confirmed. but, you know, we're watching the negotiations in real time. but will they work. will it work out the way president trump suggests? we're nowhere near being able to say that this is going to be a success. >> coming up, how the faa's troubles are more serious than you know. we'll talk about the significant safety concerns that the nation's airports. when morning joe comes right back. >> here you go. >> is there any way to get a better price on this? >> have you checked single care? before i pick.

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of the philippines has been arrested on accusations of crimes against humanity. rodrigo duterte was taken into custody at manila's main airport after returning from a trip to hong kong. the international criminal court says. the 79 year old was responsible for tens of thousands of deaths as part of his brutal crackdown in the country, which he cast as a war on drugs and crime, according to the new york times. it appears that the philippine government was prepared to surrender mr. duterte to the icc. ontario, canada's most popular province, is hitting back at president trump's tariffs by imposing a new 25% surcharge on electricity exported to michigan, minnesota and new york. during a news conference yesterday, ontario's leader, premier doug ford, said

the move could increase electricity bills for some u.s. households by roughly $100 per month. and police say wildfires that tore across long island over the weekend were sparked by someone making s'mores. >> oh good lord. >> yeah, really? making s'mores in their backyard. >> so we should. we should cut that out. >> no. >> no, no s'mores over 4th of july with the kids. >> well, i don't know. this is not the 4th of july. no, i'm. >> just saying they're like s'mores. this is now one of the great threats. >> officials say. >> the person who. >> was trying to roast marshmallows used cardboard to light a fire. after struggling to get the flames going in the windy conditions. governor kathy hochul has since instituted a burn ban on long island. >> that's that. that's some s'mores right there. >> the s'mores band. coming up live reports from the nasdaq and the new york stock exchange as markets look to stop the bleeding on wall street. the latest fallout from president

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>> just hours after swearing to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states, donald trump issued an executive order to defy one of its most consequential amendments. >> we are all. >> watching and waiting to see who is going to hold the line. don't miss the weekends. >> saturday and sunday mornings at. >> eight on msnbc. >> welcome back! we are learning more this morning about a fiery collision in the north sea, just off the coast of england, where officials say a cargo ship struck a tanker carrying fuel for the u.s. military. nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella has the details. >> this morning, the extent of damage clear to see. after a collision involving a. >> u.s. vessel. >> sparked a massive. >> blaze off the english coast. >> the u.s. flagged. >> oil tanker, the stena. >> immaculate. >> hit by the portuguese container ship. >> so long. >> so long has collided with tanker stena immaculate in the outer anchorage. both vessels are abandoning. >> the oil.

>> tanker was carrying. >> jet fuel. >> for u.s. >> navy ships. >> a u.s. >> defense official tells. >> nbc news. >> incredibly. >> 36 crew. >> members of both. >> vessels were brought to shore during. >> the major rescue. >> operation, and none. >> needed to. be hospitalized. >> but owners of the cargo ship said one of its crew members is missing. the coast guard calling off the search overnight. >> so you've. >> got a lot of fuel on the. >> water. >> you've got a lot of smoke, as you can see. and i'd say those ships are pretty unapproachable right now. >> the oil. >> tanker was anchored about 13 miles offshore as the cargo ship collided with it. on board the so long, 15 containers of sodium cyanide, a highly. toxic chemical used mainly in gold mining. and an unknown quantity of alcohol, according to lloyd's list intelligence. the huge fire at sea burning. through the night and into this morning. >> the black. >> smoke visible for miles as investigators try to figure out how this could happen. >> now. >> there were reports of fog earlier, but. modern ships have

anti-collision systems. >> the firm. >> managing the oil tanker said the ship's. cargo tank was. >> ruptured. >> causing multiple explosions and jet fuel released into the sea. it's still unclear this morning. >> if the lethal. >> sodium cyanide is also leaking. >> nbc's kelly cobiella with that report. now, back here in washington, d.c, crews yesterday began dismantling the area known as black lives matter plaza. the large, yellow painted street mural, located just one block north from the white house, was first created in the wake of george floyd's murder and the racial injustice protests in the summer of 2020. the road work to remove the painting is slated to take about six weeks. d.c. mayor muriel bowser ordered the mural dismantled amid pressure from republicans, who now control both chambers of congress, as well as, of course, the white house. president trump has made reversing diversity programs a keystone of his second term. the black lives matter mural is set

to be replaced by several city sponsored one. meanwhile, the supreme court yesterday agreed to hear a case challenging colorado's ban on the discredited practice of conversion therapy. the case was brought to the court by a colorado christian therapist who claims the ban challenges her free speech rights under the first amendment. colorado state officials, for their part, say the state measure regulates conduct, not speech. conversion therapy aims to change a person's sexuality or gender identity through counseling. it has been discouraged by the american psychiatric association due to a lack of evidence that it actually works, and rather could cause significant harm to a patient. the new case will be argued in the court's next term, with a decision expected next june. coming up, our next guest first met vladimir putin all the way back in 1990. former u.s.

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>> your entire. >> first order when you sign up as a. new vip only@fabletics.com. >> and welcome to the fourth. >> hour of morning joe. it is 6. >> a.m. on the west coast, 9 a.m. in the east, along with joe, jonathan lemire and me. we have special correspondent at vanity fair and host of the fast politics podcast, molly jong-fast. let's get right to our top story this morning. the major stock indexes tanked

yesterday as the sell off intensified after president trump declined to rule out a recession. the dow lost nearly 900 points. the nasdaq had its worst day since 2022, and the s&p 500 has shed nearly $4 trillion in market value in the past 20 days. nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake has more. >> reporter. >> this morning, the white house defending president trump's tariffs against top trading partners after a rough day. >> on wall. >> street monday. >> with a. >> market sell off that left the dow down nearly. >> 900 points. >> march madness is upon us. >> the dow. >> s&p and. >> nasdaq all suffering. their worst session of 2025. >> this year's gains erased wall. street analysts blaming. >> the slide on president trump's. >> trade war and increasing. >> fears of a. >> possible recession. >> which the president did. >> not rule out. >> in an. >> interview sunday. >> are you expecting a recession this year?

>> i hate to predict things like that. there is a period of transition because what we're doing is very big. >> the white house. >> releasing a statement. >> after. >> the markets. >> closed monday that read in part, president trump. >> delivered historic job wage. >> and investment growth in his first. >> term and is. >> set to do. >> so again in his second term. >> his top economic adviser. >> on monday. >> morning downplaying concerns. but for sure this quarter, there are some blips in the data. one of the stocks suffering most. elon musk's tesla. >> musk asked yesterday. >> about managing the president's cost cutting efforts along with his businesses. >> how are you running. >> your other. >> businesses? >> i with great difficulty. >> the billionaire drawing. >> scrutiny, suggesting. >> he. >> may target so-called entitlements, which include programs like medicare and social security. >> most of the federal spending is entitlements. so that that's that's like the big one to eliminate. >> while the president continues with his on again, off again tariffs with more promise tomorrow china. >> on. >> monday slapping.

>> a. >> 15% tariff on american agricultural. products like chicken, wheat, corn. >> and cotton. and ontario. >> canada's premier, doug. >> ford. >> made good. >> on. his promise to hike electric. >> rates 25%. >> for some 1.5 million american. >> customers who rely on. canadian power. telling me friday he was. >> prepared to shut the power. >> off entirely if u.s. tariffs escalate. >> that's the last. >> thing i want. >> to do. >> but president trump is trying to destroy our country. >> did we do? my warning today. >> nbc's garrett haake with that report. so let's go straight. >> well, before we do that, remember. >> i do remember. >> yeah. john john lemire, i want to want to go to you because we have been talking this morning in between no breaks to certain media figures. let's say, that are more trump adjacent and been trying to get reaction to elon musk saying

that he was going to eliminate those were the programs. those are the big ones to eliminate. and you said so because i said the white house is going to be scrambling today. and so these trump adjacent media figures said to me, oh, he's talking about waste, fraud and abuse. i said, no, no, no, no, he's talking about $700 billion. that is the total amount of benefits that is paid out to medicare recipients every year. he's not talking about waste, fraud and abuse when he talks about the entire annual budget for medicare. so now that we have that like laid out and by the way, not to just go on here, but it's kind of what i do. it's a failing of mine. of course, they claim that people up to 160

years old are getting social security benefits. donald trump's own social security administrator just said a month or so ago that there's not expansive waste, fraud and abuse. the 2020 census bureau said that there are about 80,000 americans who are alive right now over the age of 100. of those, only 44,000 get social security benefits or got social security benefits last year. so we're not paying out more. we're actually paying out less than the number of people over the age of 100. so you're not going to find $700 billion of waste, fraud and abuse. but if you were talking about and this is what he said, quote, this is the big one to eliminate. how does the white house get around that? jonathan. >> yeah, joe, i don't i don't know you to go on, but no, what

we're seeing right now is a bit. >> of. >> once in a while. >> no. >> let me go on about how i go on. no. i'm sorry. go ahead. there has. >> been a bit of a scramble. the white house this time around has created a rapid response twitter account, akin to what you'd see at a campaign, but they now have it coming out of the west wing, and it has been busy this morning trying to knock down what elon musk said. trying to clarify, as you pointed out, that he was focusing on waste, fraud and abuse, though the numbers do not add up and the president himself, who remained behind closed doors yesterday, a rare day where we didn't really we didn't receive president trump, but he is expected to give a speech to business leaders later today so that a lot of eyes will be on that to see what he says about the state of the economy, his ongoing trade war, the tariffs, the market collapsing and the like. yesterday, there was spin from the white house that business leaders were still in favor of these decisions to ignore the stock market. but let let's of course remember two things about that, joe. first, we have heard from some major businesses, including delta airlines,

suggesting this is having a real impact already and that secondly, president trump, more than any other president, has always assigned value, frankly measured the worth of his presidency. the success of his presidency via the stock market. and it's been a freefall in recent days. >> you know, jonathan, though, what's so fascinating here is, again, the dynamic of donald trump and elon musk and how long that's going to stay. most people that know the two say, oh, well, that relationship is going to last a very long time. and who knows, maybe it will. but it's interesting that this interview with kudlow comes on the heels of donald trump sort of clipping elon's wings last week and siding with marco rubio and duffy and these other people saying, you know, like sean duffy, you can't fire air traffic controllers. your people are coming in trying to fire air traffic controllers while planes are crashing. right. and so donald trump sort of clipped his

wings last week, saying, we're going to let the department heads do this. and then this morning they're having to deal with elon musk saying something and let's just say right here, completely opposite of what donald trump has promised in both campaigns where he's not going to cut social security, he's not going to cut medicare, he will not cut those entitlement programs. and yet, here's elon musk saying the entitlement programs, they're the big ones, so they're the big ones to eliminate. and then again, i will say again, for those in trump adjacent media circles, and i will say it slowly for you, elon musk used the number 700 billion. jonathan lemire 700 billion is not waste, fraud and abuse. 700 billion is the entire budget of medicare every year for the benefits that are paid out. >> yeah, that's the whole ball game. you're right. the question

now being asked is at what point does elon musk become more trouble than he's worth? the two men do like each other. i've been told reliably that trump is really flattered that musk, the world's richest man, paid so much to help him get elected, and now he's working for him. you know, we saw over the weekend, after that fiery cabinet meeting, his efforts to sort of patch things up. musk went with trump to mar-a-lago. they had dinner with secretary rubio. rubio and musk were sending, you know, valentines to each other on on x yesterday before x crashed. mind you, it was down most of the day, which musk then blamed without evidence on a ukrainian cyber attack. but right now there are republicans who are getting antsy about the damage that musk is doing to federal agencies that provide services to their voters, republican voters. hence, that's why they've canceled all the town halls. and now, yesterday, as he flat out said he'd be willing to touch the third rail of american politics. >> all right, also getting antsy. our next two guests, let's go to nbc news business and data correspondent brian

chung, live on the floor of the new york stock exchange and at the nasdaq, co-anchor of cnbc's squawk box and new york times columnist andrew ross sorkin. thank you both for being on. >> give us some good news. let us know that a rally. >> is underway already. >> how are the markets looking? what are the futures looking like today? >> yeah, joe, if you were holding your breath for a positive day, i've got some bad news for you. unfortunately, the implied open actually just about half an hour ago pointed to potentially a positive open with stocks gaining. but those futures have actually just reversed. we are now basically about flat, but it has tilted into the red in the last few minutes. but again, this comes after what was the worst stock day of 2025 yesterday. with the s&p down 2.7% and those tech heavy sectors like the nasdaq down 4%. so we'll have to see how it shakes out when the market opens in about 22 minutes. >> yeah. what are you hearing on the floor. what were you hearing yesterday. what are you hearing this morning. what's the main concern. is it is it the tariffs. is it the possibility of inflation. and i'm wondering also why is it that the tech

stocks have been taking the disproportionate hit? i mean you look at like again the stocks that have really been driving just great years in 23 and 24. those are the ones taking it on the chin right now. why is that. >> yeah. well i mean some of that is just because the stock market these days when you talk about it as a monolith, i mean, so much of the heavy weighting in the stock market are these massive big tech companies. so when you say the stock market is down, well, yes, the big tech stocks are down as well. but i do think, broadly speaking, the story for the stock market and investors is uncertainty. uncertainty uncertainty. and most of that is wrapped up in the tariff policy that we've been talking about for the last few days. i want to remind people that the dow jones was up something like 5% year to date, just a few weeks ago. we have erased all of those gains and are now largely negative for the year as the trade tariff war basically escalated in the first or rather the last few weeks. and obviously, when you talk about the confusion that a lot of businesses have, if you are a large business that's publicly traded, your investors are not

feeling so confident over what the future cash flows for the company are going to look like in the next few months, let alone in the next year. that's the reason why maybe there was that steep selling. but again, i want to point out that when it comes to the stock market, if you zoom out to inauguration, stocks on the s&p 500 have been down over 6% and the nasdaq has been down over 10%. when that slide stops, it's unclear. there was a ubs note from that's a wall street bank saying that they could see some of that volatility continuing in the near term. >> all right brian, thank you so much i really appreciate it. and of course we showed earlier this morning jp morgan there economists talking about the possibility of recession going up to 40% because of what they call quote, extreme policies. andrew, earlier we played clips of our discussions around the table over the last three months. you, me and others talking about how this was the strongest economy in the world. we are the envy of the world, but we've got the stock market,

the crypto bubble, the fiscal bubble, and it had to be handled with care or else there would be a collapse. i got to say, the thing that is most galling is the wrong word. i'll just say mildly surprising. let's let's let's say that mildly surprising me is people i'm talking to on wall street are going, well, i didn't think this was going to happen. i supported him, but i didn't think he was going to do what he's been basically doing, what he's been saying he was going to do since 1987. it's hard to listen to these people and not say, dude, where have you been for the past 40 years? he believes in tariffs. so. so tell me, what are you hearing? how concerned is the street? do we expect more of this moving forward. >> so it. >> is predictable. and i think even though we talked we've been talking about it as you know, and we have video of us talking

about this as, as something that and by the way, in many ways he said it and i think elon musk said it over and over again before the election. he used that phrase temporary hardship. >> the word hardship. >> nobody says that aloud. and elon musk said that's what was going to happen. and here we are just to add on to what you what brian was saying, you had asked why some of the big tech companies were falling as much as they are. it's a broad recession that we're talking about potentially here. you know, you mentioned delta struggling kohl's out this morning with the with news their stock off by the way about 16% on what's called weaker guidance. meaning they're looking ahead saying you know things are going to be tougher. all of that is actually going to impact the big tech stocks. why? because meta is reliant on advertising. google is relying on advertising. are people going to go out and spend money buying new iphones if things go south? not necessarily. all of those companies, by the way, are spending enormous amount of

money on nvidia chips. are they going to continue spending on those chips? so you can see the domino effect, if in fact things slow down. and so the tariff piece of it, you could say, oh, that's just supposed to affect folks that. have a direct impact with mexico or china or canada. not really. it it slows everything down. we talked about mergers and acquisitions activity. and that is a great signal of the issue, which is to say we are back in 2015. that's a barometer of confidence in the boardroom. and the truth is that whatever people voted for in november, they don't have that confidence now. yeah. and andrew, think about think about you. we've just talked about three completely different sectors this morning. delta just again getting hammered because of where the economy is going. you just brought up coal. so now we're into retail. and then we go to whether it's nvidia or amazon or you name it, these are widespread problems. nobody has

taken a bigger hit though than than tesla. i mean i think they've lost about 800 billion in market in their market cap, 50% since since elon started working on doge in december. like really heavily working there. larry kudlow asked him a question yesterday. like how, you know, how hard is it for you to run your companies? i know i keep going back to this, but they've lost $800 billion in market cap in three months, right? right. his their sales are down radically in germany and in france and even in the united states because of his politics and this pose that he's taken, that, again, is relatively new because he wasn't saying this stuff 5 or 6 years ago. he's got, of course, so many challenges coming from china right now. we know china, like china's evs, are

outperforming his in many ways. so the question is how much longer can he sit in washington while tesla loses 800 billion in market caps? and, you know, people close to him told me yesterday he's probably lost himself 125 billion out of his own pocket. look, i think that is the big billion, trillion dollar question for tesla, which is how much pressure is brought to bear by shareholders who say, look, you got to get out of washington. you got to spend more time on on the car company. we got to get this thing moving in the right direction. and how much of that is about being on one political side or another? i don't know if you saw, but trump taking a truth social, effectively encouraging his supporters to go out and buy a tesla, saying that he's going to buy a tesla himself, in part because he believes that that tesla is being punished for elon musk's political views and, frankly, closeness to this administration. so i think it's

going to be very interesting to sort of see how all of this plays out. but the pressure that's going to be brought to bear on him is real. having said that, he effectively controls the company. he really does. and so we've seen in companies like that, whether it's meta or others, when the leader controls the company, they can say for at least some period of time, talk to the hand. and at least i think for right now, he's going to continue his work in washington. yeah. andrew, i'm being told we got to go, but i just have to follow up with one obvious thing here. republicans have been at war with policies that help evs like republicans are at war. donald trump is at war. republicans are at war with these these these washington benefits for ev owners, these incentives. so isn't that hurting it as well? >> oh look i. >> well, on the subsidy side. they're removing a lot of these subsidies. that's actually in a very, almost perverse way going

to help tesla because it's going to put the gm's and ford's and. others who actually need the subsidies much more on their back feet. and it actually from a just a market share perspective. >> for evs, should should. >> put tesla in a better place. having said that, just the larger sort of push against evs broadly and the political views around evs, i think is going to make it much harder, in part because republicans aren't buying evs and democrats giving elon musk's connection to trump may decide they don't want to buy evs either. >> okay. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you. that is complicated. we'll see. >> where the ev bounces. >> molly jong-fast, your latest piece is entitled donald trump's empty promises are catching up to him. and in it you write this voters were angry, but most weren't angry about government spending. they were angry about the price of eggs. if you were to argue that trump has a mandate and he would argue that

he does, it would be to make prices lower. trump promised many pie in the sky things, but trump's biggest, boldest campaign promise was downright impossible. it was a promise that kamala harris couldn't make because there was no way to do it. trump vowed to immediately reverse inflation and to immediately make things cheaper. harris couldn't promise that because even with the most aggressive government intervention, there is no realistic way to do it. but instead of bringing prices down on day one or even month one, trump is doing the exact opposite. he's enacted a trade war and let elon musk take a chainsaw to the federal government, both of which have caused market uncertainty. suddenly, the man who said he was going to make everything cheaper on day one can't even rule out a recession on his watch, and has instead mused about a, quote, period of

transition. >> yeah. >> so who's going to feel the pain? >> well. >> of that period of transition? not him. >> right. well, certainly. >> not elon musk. >> yeah. but you know, the thing is though, molly, we had tom rogers on the other day. and tom said you can't lower prices that much too quickly because that's called deflation. and that's even more dangerous than inflation. so again, this promise that everything was going to go back to 2019 prices just not realistic under any scenario. >> yeah. >> i mean. >> it was. >> look, when you look back at a lot of the promises. >> trump made, a lot of them were undoable. right. he's going to. make ivf make make insurance companies pay for ivf. you know not doable and not in not interested. he's not interested in that right. no tax on tips. remember that that was a big crowd pleaser. that is nowhere to be seen in any of this legislation. look tariffs are inflationary. this is not rocket science. this is very clear. and

what is happening here is the markets are reacting to uncertainty, which they don't like. the way the tariffs are going are very uncertain. they're on they're off they're on they're off. and this so this is creating an atmosphere that does not need to be created. like all of this is created by trump for trump. you know there's no reason why any of this has to happen, right? there's no reason that we have to have a trade war with china. this is a choice. and it's unnecessary. and also if you look at, you know, if you look at the sort of thought behind this election, you know, nine out of ten voters said and again, you know, we never know why people actually vote. but they said they were voting on the economy and inflation and they were mad about inflation. and so if they're mad about inflation, the thing you would want your president to do would be not to drive up prices. >> yeah. >> and this is all let's be clear. his doing this. he inherited a strong economy. it's his decisions that have led us to this moment. white house officials still publicly

confident, publicly boasting. but there is, for the first time, some private anxiety about where this is going. we'll have more on that a little later in the show. but now let's turn to some news from overseas. ukrainian officials are meeting today with secretary of state marco rubio and other u.s. officials for talks aimed at ending the years long war with russia. today's meetings, though, will not involve ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky, although he was in the same saudi city yesterday. joining us now, former u.s. ambassador to russia, now the director of the institute for international studies at stanford university and an nbc news international affairs analyst, michael mcfaul. his latest piece is in the atlantic and has this headline, the tragic success of global putinism how the west underestimated an ideological ideologies animating force. mr. ambassador, thank you so much for joining us this morning. a lot of ground to cover, but let's start with your piece. you, as we mentioned earlier in the show, first met vladimir

putin back in 1990. you know, he is certainly someone who has held power for a long time. and it seems like even as his military has had its struggles in ukraine, but his influence globally may be at an all time high. >> tragically, yes. and i. >> think we've underestimated. >> him as. >> an ideological leader. >> we focus rightly on the rise of. >> china and how. >> to contain. >> that threat to the united states. >> i think. >> that's important. >> but in doing. >> so. we neglected the rise of russia and. >> in particular. >> this ideological dimension of vladimir putin. he's a populist nationalist. he's against. >> the west. >> he's against. >> what. >> he calls the. >> the decadent liberal west. >> and multilateralism. and after consolidating power at home, i write about this in the piece. i go through that history. >> he then. >> went to export. >> these ideas. >> he invested in. >> russia today. he invested in ngos. he empowered the russian

orthodox church to do that. >> he used. >> his. >> troll factories on. >> social media. he had his. >> intelligence officers steal. >> data from candidates. >> like. hillary clinton that were against. his ideas. >> and now. >> today, if you look at a map of europe, you see that putin has lots of supporters within countries that used to be part of the democratic world. and as i say in the piece, in the. old days in the cold war, you know, maps like the one you're showing right now, right? it used to be red and. >> blue, right? red team. >> blue team between states. >> that was the. >> ideological struggle. today. >> this ideological struggle is within. >> states. in hungary. >> within germany. inside italy. >> inside france, and inside. >> the united. >> states of america. >> now, julia ioffe, who, of course, writes for park but from russia, has written an awful lot about russia, has always warned that we shouldn't overestimate

putin's tactical brilliance. and i'm not saying that you're doing that here. what she focuses on, though, is just the west's ineptitude at actually recognizing the challenge, preparing for the challenge, and beating back the challenge. and her argument has always been, if you like, if we were more competent, he wouldn't have been able to get this foothold in the west. what do you think about that? >> oh, absolutely. i agree, and i want to say i know you really well. she was a reporter. >> in. >> moscow when i was the ambassador, one. >> of. >> the best in the business. i used to say that. >> to about putin. >> and you can look and you can google and find my. >> arguments about it. i've changed my view because over the. >> last decade he has gained influence. >> he has. >> gained followers. he has he has supporters, a. political party in almost every country in europe. and if you look at the maga world and the trump, you know, the putinism, there's. >> a lot. >> of. support there. there's a

lot of. >> solidarity there. and that's because. >> joe, we have not pushed back exactly what you just said. we have not pushed back ideologically. and most importantly, we didn't push back earlier when putin was weak. we should have armed ukraine 20 years ago. we should have been having a debate about ukraine. joining nato 20 years ago, not just a few years ago. that would have been peace through strength, something. >> we've. >> talked about on this program before, and that would have prevented the kind of conflict that we are currently involved in. >> well, it's certainly what republicans. yeah, it's certainly what republicans were talking about in 2014 when they were, of course, attacking barack obama and joe biden for not doing enough to defend ukraine. now, a lot of those same people are literally, literally parroting vladimir putin's talking points. and you have seen it in the media, you have seen it online, in twitter, you have seen it on substack. these people that used to be

mainstream columnists used to be mainstream television talk show hosts, suddenly began parroting vladimir putin's talking points. and, you know, as bill clinton said, if turtle shows up on a fence post, it didn't get there by accident. no, i want to i want to ask you about where we are in negotiations, where the administration is, and this is where we have to sort of sort through the signal and the ground noise. marco rubio yesterday had said, and the big headline was rubio says ukraine is going to have to give up land for peace. but if you go down and read everything that rubio said, secretary of state rubio said it actually sounded a hell of a lot like what mark milley told me back in 2023, which was ukrainians aren't going to push all of the russians out of ukraine, and russia is not going to get kyiv. so they're both going to have to make hard concessions. i heard that from the secretary of state

yesterday. i'm curious what you heard and what your thoughts are. >> well, the ukrainians have acknowledged that tragic fact long ago. to your point, president zelensky for months now has been talking about, yes, we will reunify our country, but only through peaceful. >> means that that that's a that's a signal that. >> he understands. >> it's not. >> going to happen anytime soon. >> it's probably going to take decades. what they want, though, in return. >> for land, is. they want. >> a security guarantee from us so that. >> they won't just. >> start this war three years from now. i think a lot of people have forgotten. most certainly our vice president. >> forgot it when. >> he met with president zelensky that zelensky sat at a table just like the one you're showing right now. with vladimir putin. in 2019, and he signed a cease fire. again, people, i think, forgot that there was a war that started in 2014. >> it was. >> it escalated. >> in 2022. >> he signed it. >> in 2019. and three. years later, putin launched his full

scale invasion of ukraine. so as a minimal. objective and a necessary. objective from his point of view, they need something that prevents that, and if they get that, i think they're. >> prepared to give up that territory. >> that's currently occupied. so. >> so let me ask you really quickly, mr. ambassador. could that security arrangement look like nato troops inside of ukraine after this peace deal is done? of course not us troops, because the president, american president, said we're not going to have u.s. troops there, but european troops, european peacekeeping force in there. and then american business interests in there, doing what donald trump said they would be there. would that be enough of a tripwire to give ukraine the security guarantee that they need? >> well, the best option would be membership. into nato, just like the way the korean war. >> ended, right? >> the war ended three months later.

>> we signed a security agreement. >> with south korea. but i think what you're talking. >> about, joe. >> is the second best option, and there has to be some kind of peacekeeping. >> force inside ukraine. >> remember. putin said. >> no. >> he's already saying. >> that's. >> not available and that is a precondition to these business interests and mining going in. i think about if you're a shareholder, you know, you're a member of a board of a mining company, you're not going to go into a war zone. that's not prudent. they're not going in right now. right. >> you need. >> security first. because you're going to be making multibillion dollar investments that won't yield. >> return on your. >> investment for several years. right? i think i think people think mining companies. you just go in and you set them up like a subway store. it doesn't work that way. and so before you do that, you've got to have. >> the security guarantee. >> so this is a chicken and egg problem. and i hope they wrestle with it in saudi arabia today. >> for sure. the new piece is available online now. nbc news

international affairs analyst michael mcfaul. always great to have you on the show with us. thank you so much. and coming up, we're going to take a closer look at the state of aviation safety in america. as one of our next guests says, it's still safe to fly, but less so under trump. that conversation is next on morning joe. plus, we'll check back in on the markets, which opened just moments ago. which opened just moments ago. we'll be right back. i thought people exaggerated when they said shingles is a nightmare and the pain can last for weeks. it wouldn't mean sleepless nights, right? i didn't think i was at risk. i was wrong. i didn't know that 99% of people over 50 already have the virus that causes shingles and it could reactivate at any time. i learned that the hard way, but you don't have to. talk to your healthcare provider today. well, i'm a local company

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ooooooo. -i love that. add streamsaver with apple tv+, netflix and peacock included for only $15 a month... and stream all your favorite entertainment, all in one place. >> 35 past the hour. the markets opened up moments ago as uncertainty surrounding president trump's tariffs continue to impact wall street. let's bring in the anchor of cnbc's worldwide exchange, frank holland. frank, how are things looking right now? >> well good morning. >> taking a look at the. >> markets right now. you see the markets. >> are moving lower. >> i was just checking a short time. >> ago, about a quarter of a

percent to a third of a percent lower across the board. of course, this comes after. the wall street had kind of. >> its worst day of. >> the year yesterday. the nasdaq especially having a bad day, its worst day. >> since 2022. >> the real. >> number we want to talk. >> about right now, it's $4 trillion. that's how much the s&p 500. >> often called. >> the broader market, has lost since. >> its all time high less than a month ago. >> we're talking. >> about february the 19th. it hit an all time high, losing. >> $4 trillion. since then. so there's a number. >> of factors. the factors are tariff concerns that are in turn fueling inflation concerns. and in turn fueling recession concerns. and now we've got some new concerns about the consumer, especially after delta airlines warned investors it expects lower than lower profits than it previously guided to due to a slowdown in business and in consumer spending. also this morning, popular retailers kohl's and dick's sporting goods also. >> kind. >> of painting a picture of a consumer slowdown. so this this is especially concerning because it kind of flies in the face of what we're hearing from many businesses and economists that the us economy is strong and the consumer is strong, the consumer just making different choices like spending on travel and

experiences. but we're hearing a different story from a lot of big companies right now. those concerns also adding to a forecast from the fed that first quarter gdp. >> will decline. >> more than 2%, 2.4%. and then we have the eye trade that's really powered the markets over the last two years. >> our jim cramer from mad money. >> everybody knows jim cramer. just yesterday he said the magic seven. that basket of stocks that have been powering the market just doesn't exist anymore. he says tesla and nvidia that's an ai name that's gone from kind of obscure to ubiquitous, that there are nothing even close to magnificent. these are his words, by the way. he says tesla and nvidia, they're basically just meme stocks kind of twisting and. turning on investor sentiment that some people will sometimes call animal spirits. so again, a lot of recession concerns out there, a lot of concerns about the consumer. it's really a wait. and see. we have a big test of what's going on in the economy. coming up tomorrow. we have an inflation report. remember, inflation is one of the things that the federal reserve looks at when. >> they make. >> rate cut decisions. hotter than expected number that could lead to another sell off on wall

street. again looking at the markets right now in the red. back over. >> to you. >> we shall we shall see. and like you, like you said, frank, the biggest concern is i mean, you look at the different sectors. you have delta, you've got kohl's, you've got dick's sporting goods and then of course you've got the tech stocks. all of them right now getting hammered. and yeah just a major widespread concern. >> cnbc's frank holland thank you very much. we'll be back in touch for sure. >> coming up. >> i can say again though again we talked about jim cramer talking about meme stocks. again, nvidia actually is creating real things. it is real things that are going to fuel the future of ai. that's far different than tesla. that has kind of gone up and down based on you know, that's a meme stock based based on people seeing elon musk as this super, you know, super hero in business that maybe could be undermining or undermining that that belief

by carrying chainsaws around in public places. >> all right. coming up, hhs secretary robert f kennedy jr is out with a new claim about measles. it's doing so well. we'll go over the fringe theory. >> is he doing so well? >> well, he said people should get vaccines. remember. we just we just said it. we just reported that because we thought, you know, reward good behavior. try not to look at everything else he's done. >> and now he's starting. >> to go over the fringe theories on which he's now relying to contain the outbreak. relying to contain the outbreak. >> oh, man. with hotels and vacation rentals, booking.com has something for everyone. seashells! you got anything more boutique? oui, oui, oui. right this way... now we're talking. what about something more family friendly? oooh! maybe a resort with a waterpark... [water splash] or somewhere less family-friendly? yep! one vegas hotel for the bride to be. what if we hate everything? we have free cancellation. find exactly what you're booking for.

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exclusive bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> what was it like. when trump got elected? what was the i mean, what was the reaction do you think about ice coming to knock on your front door? >> for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you. there on january? >> i was there. >> on january 6th. >> did it surprise you. >> that you. >> were fired, given how resolutely nonpartisan you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner. >> 43 past the hour. this afternoon, the national transportation safety board will release its preliminary findings on the deadly midair collision earlier this year in the washington, dc area. in january, a passenger plane and black hawk helicopter crashed into each other over the potomac river. there were no survivors. 64

people were on board the american airlines flight. three service members were on the helicopter. today's report will come just days after a small plane crashed near a retirement village in lancaster county, pennsylvania. that happened on sunday. all five people on board the flight survived, but three were sent to a burn center. >> with us now, let's bring in the staff writer in the atlantic, focusing on politics and national security, isaac stanley becker, whose latest piece is titled the faa's troubles are more serious than you know. also with us, government affairs representative for the association of professional flight attendants alex roberts. he is a second generation aviation worker and has a recent opinion piece in the tennessean titled is it still? it is. it is still safe to fly, but less so under trump. thank you guys so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. isaac, let me start with you. post covid. we lost a lot of pilots. we lost a lot of flight attendants, lost a lot of people in the towers. there are a lot of people that

got out of got out of aviation. we expressed our concern for some time, especially about the people in the towers that that got out. and this didn't just start in january. obviously. we've been reporting for two years now about near misses on runways. what can. so first of all, talk about air safety today. the extraordinary record we have had, but also how this has been for some time, a system that's just kind of, you know, breaking at the seams. >> this is such a critical point. >> some of the staffing issues date, date back some time. and the faa has been trying to reckon with this. and that's part of the reason why it was so surprising when this fork in the road email came out toward the end of january. and this. offer of early retirement initially went out. >> to the entire. faa workforce. >> that includes air traffic

controllers and others in really. really key safety roles. >> and there's been a lot of discussion. about what the interest. >> in this was and how many are leaving. and what i was. >> able to. >> do is. >> get ahold. >> of some actual data from inside the agency that. >> showed the. interest in. that offer. >> more than 1300. people inside the faa responding to it initially, including about 100 air traffic controllers. now, after about a week, those job categories and some others were exempted, but it set off just absolute alarm inside the agency about the possibility that. >> air traffic controllers would be. >> sacrificed as part of this reduction. >> so, alex, your piece, it's still safe to fly, but less so under trump. how so? >> well good morning and. >> it's. >> an honor to be on. >> thank you. >> the first priority of crew members. is the safety and security of our passengers. and unfortunately, these reckless trump administration cuts are

making that job much more difficult. and that doesn't just impact the crew members. >> obviously. >> that impacts the 3 million americans who travel daily in the united states. so i really want to drive home the point that, yes, air travel is still the safest form of transportation in our country, but that reality is not inevitable. and it didn't. >> happen. >> by accident. and these reckless cuts by the trump administration are making that reality less so. so i felt obliged to write. this op ed in the tennessean, because this is a personal issue for me. my mother was a flight attendant for over 20 years. i represent with the apfa union, nearly 30,000 flight attendants across the country. and so these are my friends, my family, not just my colleagues. and so i really want to get the message out that these reckless cuts are doing damage.

>> well, you know, jonathan lemire, it's so fascinating. one of the one of the showdowns during that meeting that we've been talking about between elon musk and cabinet members came from sean duffy, transportation secretary, who said, dude, basically, dude, i'm paraphrasing here in sort of florida beach talk, dude, you're you're you're trying to fire flight attendants while planes are crashing, which musk said, oh, i haven't done that and you can't prove it. and he goes, yeah, you didn't do it because i didn't let it happen. that is, again, the madness of all this we have had since post covid. a problem with having enough air traffic controllers and the idea that they're randomly going to cut these. first of all, undermines it. secondly, donald trump coming out the day after and blaming air traffic controllers because of some imaginary d e i crisis also sends a lot of them going to the exits. i mean, we have a real

problem here, don't we, jonathan? it does seem that we have a treasury secretary who understands that. >> yeah, this transportation secretary, transportation. >> yeah. >> was a former cast member of the real world. so he might have said, dude, so let's not let's not rule that out. but your points are exactly right. and isaac, it's a it's a great piece. and i want to dive into sort of what joe just had to say there about some of the die cuts or recommendations because correctly, you know, the secretary did stand up to musk in last week, but when i was in the white house briefing room when he stood alongside president trump, when trump blamed die for that crash in washington, tell us the latest there, the sort of where things stand with the workforce. >> well, you. >> have to understand what was happening at the faa at the end of january. so you have this terrible mid-air collision, 67 people dead in the worst u.s. aviation disaster in recent history. you have this fork in the road email from musk's team

at d.o.j. trying to reduce the workforce. and then you have the president of the united states stand up and blame a day after the crash. blame it on die programs, of course, without evidence. and i tried to understand and get inside this moment at this, at this agency performing such critical work. and what i was told is that this really. >> baffled the workforce. >> one senior executive decided to quit that day in disgust because of this display and this performance. and so it really contributed to this morale crisis, as i was told inside the agency, with people describing a workforce that, you know, just all time low in terms of morale and, and the ability to focus on their critical mission. >> all right. staff writer at the atlantic, isaac stanley becker and government affairs representative for the association of professional flight attendants alex roberts. thank you both very much for coming. >> on this. >> morning and covering this and

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him. >> enjoy your. peaceful night's sleep. annaliese left me. >> a few minutes before the top of the hour. as new cases of measles are reported across the country, health and human services secretary robert kennedy jr is linking the current outbreak to poor diet and health, along with citing some fringe theories. >> it couldn't be that actually in the places where the measles breakouts, where they actually. >> don't vaccinate. >> aren't vaccinating as much. >> in a fox news interview, kennedy suggested measles vaccine injuries were more common than known, contrary to extensive research and facts, he claimed natural immunity to

measles gained through infection, also protected against cancer and heart disease. another claim that is. completely not supported by any research. however, kennedy did acknowledge vaccines, quote, do prevent infection, saying the federal government was helping to ensure that people have access to, quote, good medicines, including those who want them to vaccines. joining us now, nbc news medical contributor doctor vin gupta. doctor gupta. >> where do we begin? >> please help us. please. how do we push back? especially since this is the head of hhs. a lot of people are going to listen to this stuff, and they're going to take it as fact. >> and their kids are going to suffer. >> well. >> good morning. >> joe and mika. here's what i would say this is to those that might. >> believe this. here is what he's doing. and this is a playbook. he's used multiple times. he takes. >> his preconceived notion. he then misinterprets and cherry picks. >> data and he makes an outrageous statement.

>> just like he did in this interview. and so when it comes to nutritional or health or. health considerations. in measles, what do we know? what we know is. as you said, one, the vaccine is incredibly effective. even one dose at preventing infection, much less serious illness. number two, the only thing that's been really documented here is vitamin a. deficiency in places like. >> east africa, sub-saharan. >> africa. >> where vitamin a deficiency is prevalent. >> and so. >> in the case. >> of a young child in those. areas or even parts of asia where vitamin a deficiency might be. >> common. >> yes. in the case, if they are. exposed and infected with measles, what what we would recommend is giving them vitamin. >> a. >> by the way, in the united states, where vitamin a deficiency. >> is rare, we. >> still the american association of pediatrics, still, regardless of severity of illness, recommends giving vitamin a to somebody to a child if they're infected. so this is this is a moot point. what's

interesting and ironic here is that he's linking. >> diet to measles. and somehow that. >> this is causative. >> it's not. >> as you said. >> in the lead up. >> but that they already underfunded. the trump administration on. >> day. >> one under basically removed all funding through usaid for vitamin a repletion programs worldwide. so this is an issue that they're worsening, even though i don't think they're. >> connecting the dots. >> doctor gupta, molly jong-fast here. i'm wondering if you could talk about five years since the covid pandemic. talk about this anti-vax sentiment and how it, you know, we got here from there. >> yeah. >> molly, you know, i think there's. >> a direct. >> line between the current health secretary being one of the proponents of vaccine skepticism. all these movements here that has completely reduced public health infrastructure to, i'd. >> say to rubble here. >> we're really reliant on private enterprise to step in.

pharmaceutical companies and others to step in if there is a bird flu pandemic to fill the gap, because this is what we're hearing from our highest leaders in government, that somehow there's a link between diet and, say, the measles outbreak. and so this is emblematic, molly, of the last five years. >> of a progressive. >> decline in basic state government. departments of public health, one, in terms of the people that are going into it. molly, i don't know many people who want aspire to a to a career in the department of health in a state or federal level because of what they're seeing. number two, there is, you know, trust is being removed literally by the minute. >> nbc news medical contributor doctor vin gupta, thank you so much. and that does it for us this morning. but guess what? guess what. >> what do we get to do this again? >> we get to come back tomorrow. >> morning bright. >> and early. >> how can we do all four. >> hours eastern for four brand new hours of morning joe? >> so exciting. >> ana cabrera picks up the. >> i have so much more. >> in two minutes to say. and

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