>> good day! i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. breaking news stocks sink as donald trump doubles down. the president escalating the trade war with canada by announcing even more tariffs that have sent investors on a scary ride. how far is he willing to go? as americans worry about their 401? s disappearing work in progress

ukraine praises constructive talks with the u.s, trying to get back on track after that infamous oval office blowup between trump and zelensky. but are they willing to cede territory and forever changed? it was five years ago today that covid was declared a pandemic, and the world as we knew it essentially shut down. the ripple effects we're still dealing with today on everything from our global politics to our personal relationships. so much to get to. but we start with president trump adding new fuel to the already raging economic fire by adding even more tariffs on canada. as the markets continue to sink deeper and deeper into the red. after monday's gut churning trillion dollar plunge. look at the dow today down right around 650 points. it comes after president trump said he would raise tariffs on canadian steel and aluminum from 25% to 50%. ontario's premier doug ford

responded on this network just moments after trump's announcement. >> stop the chaos. it's hurting american families. it's hurting canadian families. he ran on a mandate of creating jobs, lowering inflation, and it's backfired on him. and he has to step up and change course. >> well, you've got to imagine the market sell off and the escalating trade war will be topic one. when the president meets with around 100 ceos and business leaders this afternoon. and while the president has made essentially no effort to reassure americans about a possible recession or big losses to their 401. s he did promise elon musk he'd buy a tesla as a show of support after musk's net worth took a hit. and while the world's richest man can still pay his bills, he's busy taking aim at the programs that millions of americans rely on for a safety net. social security, medicare and medicaid. nbc's brian chung is live at the new york stock exchange, served as policy advisor for president

biden's national economic council, and is currently chief of policy and advocacy at groundwork collective. tara setmayer is a former gop communications director, as well as co-founder and ceo of the seneca project. thanks to all of you for being here. brian, what can you tell us about these new tariffs against canada? because once again, the markets are not taking this well. >> yeah. wele tariffs. >> were already going to take place tomorrow. but the news this morning was that they were going to ratchet up the rate of those tariffs. originally the plan was for 25% on steel and aluminum. and now that has gone up to 50% again as part of this policy by truth social with the president tweeting or sorry, truth social earlier this morning, that the only thing that makes sense is for canada to become our cherished 51st state. also reiterating that again, he was going to add an additional 25% tariff to 50% on all steel and aluminum coming into the us from canada, accusing canada of being one of the highest tariff nations anywhere in the world. i want to

point out the timing of that specific message kind of coincided with the further slip that we did see here on wall street. i've been parked here at the new york stock exchange all morning. there was optimism from traders before the market opened at 930, that maybe we could have a green day today to erase some of the massive losses yesterday, which, by the way, was the worst trading day for stocks of 2025, with the s&p 500 losing 2.7% and the nasdaq losing 4%. but as you can see on the screen ahead of you, the dow jones not having a good day on this tuesday down 1.6%. it looked like maybe we were going to rebound earlier about an hour ago, but it seemed like we are now at new session lows. we'll have to see how the trading goes throughout the rest of the day. but again, these tariff concerns rattled further by what is, again, an announcement from the president of further tariffs on our neighbors to the north. >> so, alex, there are a lot of threats in trump's latest tweet. the president, in his words, saying the tariffs will permanently shut down car manufacturing in canada. he also said the u.s. can't keep helping pay canada pay for national security, that their only move is, as brian mentioned, to become our 51st state. but if

the goal is to save money, first of all, they are our biggest trading partner and direct aid in 2023 was a grand total of $7.5 million, most of it for environmental projects. so is there some big economic benefit to this that people are missing? >> not one that i can think of. when you think about our trade with canada, you're thinking about things like oil, energy, electricity, lumber and automobiles for those big ticket items that consumers are going to want to buy a car and a house. jacking up tariffs on canadian lumber and canadian autos are only going to increase the cost of the goods that consumers are buying. tariffs are an economic tool, just like a tax or a regulation. they can be applied smartly. they can be applied in a haphazard and chaotic way. and i think what you're seeing right now, the market reaction to trump's announcements, is a market that doesn't know what to do or what the goals are of trump's tariffs, if they are to increase manufacturing in the united states, that's not going to do it. inputs from canada go into a

number of manufactured products, automobiles being the big one. you're seeing the canadian, the steelworkers, the united steelworkers here in the us, and the machinists people who are normally supportive of tariffs on on foreign competitors, decry these tariffs as things that are going to increase costs for manufacturers and increase costs for consumers at the end of the day. >> so, tara, i want to play some of the president's promises that he made again and again on the campaign trail. >> if i win, you are three days away from the best jobs, the biggest paychecks, the brightest economic future that the world has ever seen. >> my plan. >> will rapidly defeat inflation, quickly bring down prices and reignite explosive economic growth. so i'll deliver the biggest economic boom in american history. it's going to be the biggest. >> and then again, we didn't hear from him yesterday. he didn't come before camera, but he his focus seemed to be on

elon musk. he wants to help the guy out by buying a tesla because the stock took a hit. i mean, is there a point, tara, at which you think what seems to be a disconnect between where donald trump is living and the average american is living? catch up to him? >> well, i. >> think we're starting to see that in the polling. >> right now. >> even in places like upstate new york, where a lot of folks voted for donald trump, they're saying, well, we still support him, but we are. we don't support these tariffs. we don't support attacking our our friend canada. we're not so sure about this, because as this chaos as these economic, these really insane economic policies start to take effect, people are going to realize how this impacts their everyday lives. and that includes maga, the people who voted for donald trump. i would challenge every republican at this point to explain how any of what donald trump hasn his 51 days in office has helped

improve the lives of americans. in fact, it's been quite the opposite. and in fact, when you look at what the stock market is doing, the stock market is a direct response to the absolute chaos and incompetence of donald trump's decision making. here. he's been flip flopping back and forth. he. it's good. well it's not going to be good. but we're going to you're going to be okay. i mean it's orwellian level newspeak here that's trying to convince the american people that what they're doing is actually good for you. it's not. tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people whose livelihoods have been swept out from under them, because elon musk is cutting their jobs indiscriminately, including of our veterans. this is this is not good for america. egg prices are up. inflation is not going down. unemployment is about to go up. this is hurting everyday americans from our farmers to our our our labor unions to our car manufacturers, to the local diner waitress who isn't getting the same flow of traffic in their in their

restaurants because people have lost their jobs and don't have money to go out to eat. this cascading effect is not not a joke. and donald trump is sitting on truth, social tweeting or whatever it's called 100 times in six hours. and what is he doing? he's supporting his biggest benefactor, his donor, number one donor, elon musk. this is there's something wrong with this. and i hope that democrats understand how to message this to the american people, that donald trump is not looking out for you. he's looking out for them, his billionaire benefactors. >> let me go to the white house, which is where vaughn hillyard is covering it for us. vaughn, beyond the economics. and that's huge, right? president trump, when he first talked about canada becoming the 51st state, people were chuckling. they thought maybe it was a joke. he's not backing down on this. >> no. and i think we should be very clear. ever since winning the presidency, we have never heard the words come out of the president of the united states mouth that he does not want to acquire and take over canada.

instead, the 51st state rhetoric has become effectively policy. the president of the united states has suggested a new era of american imperialism, not just canada, but greenland, the panama canal. and when you're talking about canada, specifically, the actions he has thus far taken have been attempts to weaken the canadian economy and been justified by multiple fronts by the president. in his words, he had suggested that canada needs to do more to combat illegal immigration and fentanyl coming into the united states. he's justified it on the idea that the us has been taken advantage of by tariffs that have been placed on the united states by canada, and the canada doesn't take in enough of the us dairy market. we have heard a great many justifications by the president to continue to harm the canadian economy and press them to the brink of what we have seen over the last 24 hours. is being canadian officials taking on headstrong,

the idea that the american government is and each of them have insisted it's not the american people, but the american government have made this a tit for tat situation that has imperiled their own economy, and they have no choice but to risk going into a recession themselves by implementing their own retaliatory tariffs as a means of standing up and fighting back against president trump and his white house. >> all right. can we take a look at the market boards once again, as we're waiting for the white house briefing to start, because they continue to take a hit down now, 653 points. brian, the white house is blaming not trump. they're blaming animal spirits for the market drop, insisting this is essentially right. emotional irrational. explain what they believe or what their at least explanation is. >> yeah, and it might be worth explaining what animal spirits are. that's usually a term that's used to refer to

emotional investing, that the reason for why a certain stock or the stock market at large will go up or down is because of an irrational reading of what's going on. again, that's the way that at least the white house was trying to frame it by issuing that statement again from a white house official saying it's an animal spirits that are leading to some of these market jitters, and also adding that, you know, look what we're actually seeing unfold. this is the verbiage from the white house official. what we're actually seeing unfold from businesses and business leaders. and the is kind of like suggesting that the investments that we've heard these announcements from the likes of softbank and openai and apple and investing hundreds of billions of dollars in the united states will lead to longer term, maybe even medium term economic gains. and that's underscored by the fact that national economic council advisor kevin hassett was saying on tv yesterday that, yeah, we might get a quarter of, you know, a bit of a hit to economic growth, but that the quarter after that would see a bounce back. and i do think that that is an optimistic timeline. and a lot of economists and you know, business types will tell you that it's not necessarily the case that you will see reshoring

happen in the course of six months, that you would see automakers in the united states manage to successfully move a plant from, say, ontario, that assembles vehicles and then put it somewhere in detroit, michigan, within the window of six months. those types of things could take years, could take longer than even a single presidential cycle. so this is kind of part of the conversation from even last week, when we heard from the president in his address to the joint session, that there will be this little inconvenience, there will be kind of this temporary hit to economic activity that would be worth the investment of all that investment later on down the line. again, whether or not that six month timeline is too optimistic remains to be seen. but here on wall street, you can see it on the boards ahead of you. the dow jones down 1.6%. certainly there's that concern that the short term hit will be something substantial in fell. >> so let's go back to the big picture because alex i mentioned elon musk and he was on larry kudlow on fox last night on fox business. and he talked about his plans going forward. here's a little bit of that. >> the goal here is let's not have america go bankrupt with waste and fraud. so the i mean,

the waste and fraud in entitlement spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal spending is entitlements. so that that's, that's like the big one to eliminate because that's the sort of half trillion maybe 6 or 700 billion a year. >> so let's be clear. let's fact check here. social security zone inspector general said last year there was roughly $72 billion spent on improper payments between 2015 and 2022. so over seven years, musk wants to cut ten times that. he keeps pushing the idea, for example, that dead people are getting all these checks, the acting commissioner says that's not true, and he's never shown any proof that any of that stuff that he talks about is true. where does this lead us? >> look. >> i think it leads us to the ultimate goal here of doge, elon musk and republicans in congress, which is to cut social security, medicare and medicaid.

you see the budget resolution that they're working with in congress. it's impossible to get the savings that elon musk is claiming without deep, deep cuts to the entitlements that people care about and people rely on. and you're seeing that in service of a tax cut that is going to go overwhelmingly to the wealthiest and well-connected, exactly like elon musk and his billionaire donors. >> alex hawkins, vaughn hillyard, brian chung, thank you. tara, you're sticking with me in 90s the other big political battle that's escalating. house speaker mike johnson, hoping to avert a government shutdown with just government shutdown with just three days until the deadline. (♪♪) (phone dings) for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura in adults, nurtec odt can provide relief in 2 hours which can last up to 2 days. (♪♪) don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur even days after use, like trouble breathing and rash. get help if you have trouble breathing, swelling of the face, mouth, tongue, or throat.

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complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max! just hours away from a vote to avert a government shutdown at the end of the week, and republicans are pretty much daring democrats to vote against it. >> i think the leaders stated it well and others have said it well this morning. this this is a moment of great change in washington. it's also a moment of clarity and real contrast. the contrast is on display. last week on the house floor. it was a shameful display by the democrats. they are flailing. as is noted. they have no leader. no. >> but first, johnson needs to try to keep his own razor thin majority united behind a stopgap spending bill. he's getting some help. vice president jd vance was up on the hill this morning whipping votes. president trump has been working the phones. we're told nbc's julie sirkin is on capitol hill for us. and tara

setmayer is back. so, julie, who are you watching to see whether speaker johnson is able to get this stopgap funding bill passed? >> well, there are a handful of. >> republicans in the house, a couple of whom i spoke to. >> this morning. >> as they left that meeting with vice president vance, who still said they were undecided. but i got to be honest with you do sound like they're open to coming around to supporting this at the end of the day, in large part because of the pressure that's coming across pennsylvania avenue from president trump. you see some of those names on your screen. congressman tim burchett is actually ten feet away from me doing a hit on another network. and i heard him say there that this is the first time since he's been a member that there has been a reduction in spending. i don't know whether he's a full yes just yet, but that certainly means that he, like other members, other conservatives, members of the house freedom caucus as well, are coming around to the idea of supporting this interim stopgap funding bill that would fund the government through september 30th, because it essentially maintains status quo spending levels under president biden. they aren't really adding a lot

to this bill. they are plussing up defense spending, and they're cutting non-defense discretionary programs, which is where you have democrats who take immense issue with this bill. one of the big reasons they're against it is actually because they are nervous that the trump administration is just going to cut and claw back future spending that they've already appropriated, thus removing their seat from the table. speaker johnson talked about democrats earlier today. watch this. >> this is a totally different scenario. by doing the cr this time, it actually is the responsible play, the conservative play, because we are conserving the resources of the american people. and this is this is something that all of us have wanted to do our whole careers, and we now have the opportunity. >> so would this be your last cr sir, will you support a cr in the future? >> yeah, this is what i expect is that this white house is going to actually do its job. what a concept. this white house is going to send us a budget that that has this hasn't been done in a while. >> so he criticized democrats in that press conference. he told my colleague ryan nobles, as you

heard in that exchange, that this is his last plan, continuing resolution. remember, this is not how government is supposed to operate. it's been operating in this fashion, though, under both republican and democratic administrations over the last decade. they really need to get back to regular order, which is what everyone on both sides essentially wants johnson there, saying that with this white house, with trump, they're going to do just that. but it's a lot easier said than done. so we'll actually see if they can do it in a couple of hours here. >> okay. keep an eye out for us julie. thank you. so, tara, look, we know how persuasive donald trump can be when he starts making phone calls. is there any reason to think it'll be any different this time with the holdouts? >> well, it's hard to predict because this spat between him and thomas massie has increased in its intensity. it's rather interesting. >> however, massie's only one and one won't make a difference. >> so that's true. they need. they need 1 or 2 more. but we'll we'll we'll see if that happens or not. chances are the way that donald trump has strong armed

most of these republicans, that they'll probably fall in line. the threat of elon musk primarying putting money behind primarying any republican that steps out of line is very real for a lot of these people, which is why they've acquiesced even when they know it's not good for them, or for the congress or for the legislative branch or governing in the long term. so i wouldn't count on the republicans actually standing up and not passing this bill in the lower chamber. >> it really. >> belongs in the senate. >> yeah, that's the prevailing wisdom. the stopgap bill passes. but then there are big questions looming about the budget and the future of medicare, medicaid. three members of the house freedom caucus wrote a new op ed appealing to fellow republicans not to get in the way of making massive cuts to medicaid, saying they must choose either $20 trillion in debt or medicaid reform. i mean, it was once political suicide to talk about making cuts like that. has the political world changed so much that republicans could actually

move to cut medicare, medicaid, maybe even social security? >> well, i would say that the political tectonic plates have shifted in ways that we've never seen before. and the fact that that they're actually talking about this openly and trying to say that this is going to be great, don't worry. is pretty remarkable. and i think that you're going to start to see a lot of people, including trump supporters, once they fully understand what that means. right now, it's all very notional. there needs to be a story told about what that means. do we need to get our fiscal house in order? yes we do. do we need to do that at the expense of cutting off our safety net to our seniors, to our parents, to the people who have paid into the system? is that is are the american people prepared for that level of pain? i don't think that they are. and until they start to feel that, you're going to hear some of these people continue to push this. that's why elon musk, the richest man in the world, it's very easy for him, for someone who gets $8 million a day in

government contracts, that our taxpayer dollars pay for, it's easy for him to say this when the average american on social security lives on $65 a day. there is a huge disconnect here, and there's something wrong with an unelected person, the richest man in the world, donald trump's number one donor, making these decisions and driving this agenda here with some republicans that are willing to go along with it, they have to answer to their constituents. so let them go ahead and try to sell this to their constituents and see how well that goes over. >> yeah, democrats really, truly do believe that this is kryptonite. i mean, for them, they they they, you know, are pointing to republican threats against entitlements to argue against today's votes, although those cuts aren't in the stopgap bill. so should democrats be, as their opponents would argue, conflating what's happening today with possible cuts in the budget in the future? or is that just plain old effective messaging? >> yeah. listen, democrats should really be out there explaining to the american

people what this all means in very simple terms. and yes, you need to play good politics with the messaging. the other side has no problem doing that. so that's what they need to do. and they really also need to not help republicans further undermine congress's role when it comes to the power of the purse. that's what's hidden in a lot of this in this stopgap measure here is they're really giving away more power to donald trump and the executive to basically render congress's controlling of the money and the purse moot. they've done this already. they are. this is constitutionally questionable. and it's being, you know, trying they're trying to explain this. the republicans are trying to justify this in a way that this is going to be good for everyone when it's actually not. it's cognitive dissonance here to support it. so democrats should not get involved in helping republicans further undermine congress's authority and to further hurt the american people with what they're trying to do. they should let republicans take full responsibility for this and let them explain it to the american people, why they're inflicting this level of pain on them. >> tara setmayer, thank you. next hour, we'll speak with the

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charging customers to check bags for the first time in 54 years of being in business. the reversal comes even though their own ceo had acknowledged it was the number one issue that kept customers coming back in the first place. now they aren't saying what the charge will be, but they estimate it could bring in 1 billion to 1 billion and a half dollars a year, money that execs say the airline needs. it all goes into effect on may 28th. just minutes from now, the ntsb is expected to provide another update on the deadly mid-air collision over the potomac river that killed 67 people. investigators previously said the blackhawk helicopter may have had inaccurate altitude readings, and that the crew may not have heard key instructions from air traffic control before that crash with the american airlines flight. nbc's senior correspondent tom costello covers aviation has been following this story from day one. what are you expecting, tom? >> well. >> a couple of things. >> first of. >> all. >> the ntsb, as you said.

>> has already. >> suggested that. >> the altimeters. >> in. >> that blackhawk helicopter may. >> not have been in agreement. >> they have. >> been providing the crew with bad data. we'll look for that. also, air traffic control staffing has been a critical issue here. as you know, as we've reported, the faa has said that there was at least one controller in the tower who was doing the work of two controllers. while that's allowed, it's not optimal. the question is, did air traffic control staffing in the tower that night play a role? and air traffic control staffing, by the way, is a nationwide issue. they're down some 3000 controllers. many airports are dealing with a shortage of air traffic controllers. and that is an ongoing problem. it is not an easy fix. separately, on top of all of that, the helicopter traffic in and around reagan national airport had been extremely robust, if you will, congested airspace around the most congested airspace in the country. and so since then, the faa has already really limited helicopter traffic to in and around reagan airport, to only

medevac and police helicopters and of course, marine one. the question is, will the faa take any permanent steps to restrict or limit the helicopter traffic in and around reagan airport? so a couple of the items we're expecting that we might be hearing from both the ntsb and the faa holding a news conference later today as well. we'll deal with those topics. i would say we will listen to see whether they say anything about air traffic control, staffing, a nationwide problem, helicopter traffic, and trying to deconflict that airspace. and then on top of that, what more can they tell us about the breakdown, potential breakdown with equipment and even the radios that night that affected the ability for the blackhawk helicopter pilots to know their altitude and hear instructions clearly from the tower. chris. >> tom costello, thank you. well, dozens of investigators now believe that a string of brush fires on long island were caused by people trying to make s'mores in their backyard.

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news. the white house has just responded to the turmoil on wall street, triggered by the president's escalating trade war and his refusal to rule out a recession. let's listen. >> there's a lot of concern for a lot of. >> americans right now about the state. >> of the economy. president trump has. >> refused to rule out a recession. secretary lutnick, however. >> has told us there. >> will not be one. so can the. >> white house just. >> tell and. >> assure. >> americans today that there's not going to be a recession? >> well, there's a lot to unpack there. so let me start by saying that, first of all, when it comes to the stock market, the numbers that we see today, the numbers we saw yesterday, the numbers we saw, we'll. >> see tomorrow. >> are a snapshot of a moment in time. and as president trump has said, and i'm here to echo the remarks of this president of this white house, we are in a period of economic transition. we are in a period of transition

from the mess that was created under joe biden in the previous administration. joe biden left this country in an economic disaster. >> and the president said he would turn it around on day one. but vaughn hillyard at the white house or just outside the white house, i guess right after that, then our own kelly o'donnell was asked about his tariffs today on canada. tell us more about what happened in that room and what we learned. >> yeah. you'll have to forgive me as i looked at our notes here, because minute by minute, the escalation of words and rhetoric is going beyond words and rhetoric, but into actual policy here. and caroline leavitt, the press secretary for the president, was just asked by kelly o'donnell specifically about prime minister mark carney taking over as prime minister and whether president trump had actually called the longtime ally new leader of canada. and the answer was no. she said that the phone line at the white house is always open. as kelly pointed out to leavitt, that it

is long standing policy for the leader of the united states to call a new leader of such a close ally like that of canada. of course, it's been now 24 hours, and clearly there has been no phone conversation between two men at this time. and i think that that context is important because just in the last ten minutes on social media, the new prime minister, mark carney, put out a social media statement in response to the escalating tariff war in which he writes, president trump's latest tariffs are an attack on canadian workers, families and businesses. my government will ensure our response has maximum impact in the u.s. and minimal impact here in canada, while supporting the workers impacted. my government will keep our tariffs on until the americans show us respect and make credible, reliable commitments to free and fair trade. that is the new prime minister of canada directing those comments to the president of the united states, who just a few moments ago indicated that he intends to put 50% tariffs on

canadian steel and aluminum beginning tomorrow. of course, that's after placing retaliatory tariffs on canadian dairy and lumber. here today, we have seen the president of the united states over the course of the last months. chris, you and i were talking about a few moments ago, continually indicate his intent to make canada a 51st state and bring a new era of american imperialism. and his words have been very, very descript. and his actions, efforts to weaken the canadian economy, to effectively force their hand. and when you look at the social media posts from the president over the course of just this morning, he is very, very clear, saying the artificial line of separation drawn many years ago will finally disappear. he goes on to say that the only thing that makes sense is for canada to become our cherished 51st state. and in this briefing that is ongoing with his press secretary, caroline leavitt, she was asked specifically about these tariffs that are being

imposed on canada by the president of the united states. and when asked about the tariffs, she said that the retaliatory tariffs by canada amount to egregious and insulting efforts on the part of the canadians. and she directly pointed out the premier of ontario, doug ford, who has placed 25% tariffs on electricity. of course, some americans and minnesota, michigan and new york rely on part of their electrical grids, the electricity being outsourced from canada. and with that 25% tariff, doug ford, the premier of ontario, indicating that he is willing to go as far as cutting off all canadian electricity from ontario to the united states. and that is when leavitt described it as egregious and insulting. and i think i would note that our kelly o'donnell inside, in response, made the suggestion to caroline leavitt that the canadian officials could make the same claim about the u.s. instigating and beginning this

trade war in the first place. chris. >> all right. you've got a lot to listen to. thank you very much. vaughn hillyard. meantime, critical talks aimed at ending the war in ukraine are happening now in saudi arabia, just hours after kyiv and moscow traded military fire that included ukraine's largest ever air attack on russia, 337 drones that killed three people and injured 18. more video shows the moment one of those drones ricocheted down colliding with this apartment complex in moscow. meanwhile, ukrainian officials say russia launched a ballistic missile and 126 drones overnight, sparking this fire at a fuel depot in odesa, injuring at least two people. it all comes as secretary of state marco rubio tries to secure concessions from ukrainian leadership, less than two weeks after president zelenskyy's contentious oval office visit. nbc's keir simmons is live from saudi arabia. i'm also joined by msnbc international affairs analyst and former ambassador michael mcfaul. welcome, guys.

keir, give us the latest that we know on these peace talks in saudi arabia. >> well, there's a good deal of movement here. but it does appear that the talks are continuing. we're getting towards 9:00 in the evening. so perhaps we will interpret that as positive. certainly the national security adviser said getting there earlier today when he was asked how this was going, the spokeswoman for the state department saying crossed fingers. there have been positive messages. we know the ukrainians were going in with a proposal for a partial ceasefire on, on air and in air and on the sea. so are they talking more closely about that? it looks as if that might be taken to the russians. we are hearing that steve witkoff, president trump's envoy, will head to moscow to meet for the second time with president putin. there's a lot on the agenda. so perhaps it's not surprising that they have been in talks for hours now. when they finish, i'm not sure

you're going to see a kind of kumbaya kind of, you know, joint press conference. i think you'll see separate statements. and i don't think you'll necessarily see a kind of signing of a minerals deal or something like that after that disaster in the oval office. it's going to take time to try to repair things. i think both sides recognize that. but it does look tonight as if here in saudi arabia, they are making a diplomatic progress, inching things forward. the question, of course, too, though, is about how the russians will behave. you you talked about that massive drone strike. there has been escalating attacks by the russians in ukraine in recent days. they are trying to push the ukrainians out of the kursk region. the ukrainians still holding tightly onto a small territory, piece of territory of russian territory there. and one of the questions you have to ask is, is why the russians would agree to a ceasefire now if they think they are making progress there, for example. and that's

not even talking about what they do when they try and get to a deal. i mean, even though these talks are taking place, both sides continue to attack each other. ukraine and russia don't talk to each other except for the language of war. >> all right. thank you so much for that. keir simmons, as things might develop there, please give us the high sign and we'll get back to you. so ambassador marco rubio actually did kind of lay out his sense of the goals on the plane to saudi arabia. so let me play that. >> you're not going. >> to get a cease fire in an end of this. war unless. >> both. >> sides make concessions. >> that's just obvious. wanting to see without. >> maybe we won't go into great details. we're not going to be sitting in a room drawing lines on a map, but just get a general sense of what concessions are in the realm of the possible for them, and what they would need in return, and then find out what the russian position is in that regard. >> so what do you think realistic concessions might look like on ukraine's end? >> well, first. >> before we get. >> there. >> i just want to underscore

we've never, ever heard anything about what the russians are supposed to concede. and i've listened very closely. we just listened. thanks for playing that tape again. but always it's about what the ukrainians are supposed to do and their frustration, i can tell you, is that we never talk about the other side on the ukrainian side. however, to answer your question, i think they've been pretty clear that that a tragically but necessarily they are willing to you seek unification through peaceful means. that's the language that president zelensky has used in return for some kind of security guarantee from the west. in other words, that means they're not going to try to reunify to the 1991 borders. now they're going to allow russia to occupy parts of their country, but in return, they want it to be a lasting peace, a lasting cease fire. because remember, president zelensky already sat with vladimir putin in 2019.

europeans were at the table. we weren't at the table. he already signed a cease fire agreement. and three years later, putin launched his full scale invasion of ukraine. so he's not does not want to repeat that mistake from 2019. >> well, a warning flag was sent up. mister ambassador from democratic senator mark kelly, who, as you know, has visited ukraine multiple times. here's what he said. >> i want this conflict to end. >> but it needs to. end in a way where. >> putin walks away from. >> this thinking that. >> maybe he's. never going to say it publicly. >> understanding that this was. >> a bad deal. >> and a bad idea. >> for him if he thinks. >> this was. >> he benefited from this in any way. that's where we run the risk of seeing a year from. >> now. five years from. >> now, ten years from now. more

conflict in europe. >> what do you think needs to happen for putin to get that message? >> well, the best thing to be would be to put ukraine, invite ukraine to join nato. i know the president took that off the table, but that was a mistake. the soviet union never attacked a nato country. russia has never attacked a nato country. and by the way, nato has never attacked the soviet union or russia. if you're serious about an enduring peace, that's the obvious decision that could be made. second, if the president is against that, then you need peacekeepers on inside ukraine. so to raise the stakes of a potential war in the future, just as the senator was just describing. and third, i think you need to take the russian money that's sitting 300 billion or so. that's sitting mostly in european bank accounts, but also in american bank accounts, and

give that money for ukrainian reconstruction. that would send a signal that you if you invade again, there will be consequences. and i would add to that if i, if i were negotiating, i would increase our military sales to ukraine, arm them to the teeth, so that the next time putin thinks about invading, he won't be facing a disarmed ukraine as he was three years ago, but one with full capacity air force air defenses that will make that invasion calculation much more costly. >> you make a very important point. he faced a disarmed ukraine and they are still fighting more than three years later. former ambassador michael mcfaul. thank you. and still ahead, five years after the pandemic altered reality for the entire planet, it was on this day 2020, the nba suspended its season. tom hanks and his wife revealed they had covid and a first term president. trump announced a travel ban for 26

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million lives were lost globally, including more than 1.2 million americans. and while the mask mandates, vaccine cards and the eerily empty city streets are gone, many aspects of the pandemic never really left us. our next guest argues that covid remade the united states into the country we live in today. david wallace-wells is the author of the uninhabitable earth life after warming, and opinion writer and columnist at the new york times. i was telling you, my entire team was riveted by this article, and i want to start with the economy, because we're talking about it so much today. fundamentals, things like gdp, growth, wages, unemployment used to be a pretty good predictor, right, of how americans felt about the economy. but how much are we still dealing financially and reactively to what we all live through? >> well, yeah, i mean. >> there was a big gap that. >> opened up between what the fundamentals suggested and what people felt was the state of the economy in the pandemic. there

are a lot of reasons for that, but one of them is that what we started to call the vibes were pretty dark, not just because maybe people were struggling to keep up with their bills, but also because they were observing mass illness, hospitalization and death around them, and because they had been, you know, pushed into a state of turmoil that even for those people who survived the pandemic and were never really threatened by serious illness, their lives were disrupted, too. so we've been through a world historical trauma, a generational trauma, and yet we're so eager to get back to normal that we almost avoid looking at it. we're living in a state of some kind of denial. when the pandemic is at least a partial explanation for, i think, quite a lot of the transformations of the last few years. >> let's talk about a couple of them. specifically, there's a new axios ipsos poll that found a sharp partizan divide, for example, in how americans view our public health institutions. just 40% of republicans trust the national institutes of health, compared to 77% of democrats. similar numbers for the cdc. how did covid change that and what we perceive as science and reality?

>> well, i think, you know, the public health officials were not perfect through the pandemic. they made some mistakes. they advised against masking at firs, and they advised for masking. they kind of overpromised at some points about the vaccines. they did some work to suppress conversation about lab leak. i think all of those were mistakes. but when i think about a disease that killed a million americans and made so many more of us so much sicker, those seem like relatively small mistakes. and they got many of the big things right. in fact, many of the people at the outset who were predicting a death toll of even 100,000 or 200,000 were called hysterical. >> we thought that was crazy, or so many people did. >> and it turned out that that was an undercount. right? i think the main reason why so many people have turned against public health is not because they actually failed in protecting us, it's because we want to pretend that the disease was not that scary. we want to actually push off all of those feelings of vulnerability and fear that we had in 2020, pretend that we didn't need to feel that way. and if we tell ourselves that the pandemic, our experience of the pandemic was the result of officials and their mistakes, as opposed to

our biological and social vulnerability, then it allows us to believe, first of all, that next time we won't have to go through the same things again. and secondly, it allows us to pin blame for all of that suffering we experience on someone in particular, rather than accepting it as a fact of human nature. >> so we're at five years now, but let's project down the road. i think about the generation of children who had years of their education and their social information, right? their socializing interrupted by the pandemic, many of them by themselves, essentially. do we have a handle on what this has meant to them and what it might mean going forward? >> well, first, for me, i started from the global perspective and see that we see a huge anti-incumbency wave globally. politically, we see a right wing turn among young people, especially young men almost everywhere in the world. anti and anti-establishment. i worry that that's with us to stay. some of the more direct consequences, i think, have actually been somewhat overstated with kids. pandemic learning loss was real, but it

was in league with the other countries of the world, many of whom closed their schools for shorter. we didn't see a spike in teen suicide. we have seen some signs of increasing mental distress, but i think in that it's in that turn away from institutions and away from social trust that we're going to see the real, lingering effects among america's youth. >> the right swing. >> yes, exactly. >> david wallace-wells i wish we had more time to talk, but i recommend the article to everyone. it is a brilliant piece of work, and we thank you for coming on to talk about it. >> thanks for having me. >> appreciate it. still ahead, we're standing by for the ntsb to give that update on the deadly mid-air disaster over the potomac river. what did their investigation uncover weeks after the wreckage was recovered? we'll have those updates for you live. >> to all those who. never give a second thought to being the greg takes prevagen for his brain a second thought to being the first ones in. thank you. and this is his story.

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