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good evening. i'm alicia menendez. >> and we begin this hour. >> with conservative. >> republicans doing. >> something they promised. >> they would never. >> do. >> pass a temporary. >> stopgap funding patch through. >> the end of september. >> on this. >> vote, the yeas are 217. the nays. >> are 213. >> the bill is passed without objection. the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table. >> that is an about. >> face for a large swath of the gop. as you may recall, republicans. spent the majority. >> of the. >> biden administration demanding individual. >> appropriation bills. >> and calling resolutions such. >> as the one they are. >> putting forward today. >> quote. >> failure theater. >> here's the thing. >> congressional republicans need. >> to clear. >> all obstacles. >> out of the. >> way so they can make trump's. tax cuts permanent, cut federal funding and elon musk's funding cuts permanent as well. vice president jd vance told conservative holdouts that they should vote for the short term

cr because republicans would pass a separate bill that would make all of the cuts that musk has unleashed on the american people permanent. president trump spent most of the monday calling republican holdouts and urging them to vote yes, which they did, except for kentucky republican thomas massie. massie is the only republican who actually stood firm in his beliefs. his reward for that, a promise from president trump to primary him in the midterm elections. as for house democrats, one democrat, maine democrat jared golden, joined the republicans in passing the resolution despite his colleagues objections. >> it's all part. >> of a. >> broader scheme. >> to pass. massive tax. >> cuts for billionaire. >> donors the wealthy. >> the well-off and the well-connected, and then to stick. >> working class. >> americans with the bill. >> this bill requires. >> the district of columbia. >> for instance. to take a $1.1

billion cut, not out of federal funds, out of their own funds that they tax their people. it defunds the police. i wish i had more time to say how bad this bill is. vote no. >> if you. >> feel this. >> is the mandate. >> that you have, you can do. >> that. >> on your own. >> the resolution now. heads to the u.s. senate. let's bring in nbc news senior national political reporter sahil kapoor, who is at the capitol tonight. sahil, how did speaker johnson get this over the finish line? >> hey, alicia. >> well, this was ultimately. >> the work of president trump and the white house and the massive pressure campaign that they put on republicans. trump really wanted this issue of government funding off his plate so he can focus the congress, focus his republican allies on passing that multi-trillion dollar bill that includes a major tax cut, a boost to immigration funding, and will likely include significant cuts to medicaid as well. there was a pressure campaign that included calls and pleas to republicans

as well as threats. we've seen president trump posting on social media multiple times over the last few days trashing congressman tom massie, the kentucky republican, the only no vote on the rule to bring this up, as well as the bill itself. everyone else buckled. all the other republicans, including, you know, the ultra conservative members, including the freedom caucus members who say they hate continuing resolutions, who pretty much never vote to fund the government. and this comes on the heels of them voting for a $4 trillion debt increase, at least the blueprint that makes way for that just a few weeks ago. so we are seeing in real time this republican party transform in the image of donald trump and this bill. it just passed the house by a vote of 217 to 2. 13 republicans had enough votes on their own to pass it and didn't even need a single democratic vote, although they did get one. it goes to the senate now where it's a bit of a different landscape. they do need some democrats to pass it. republicans control 53 votes. senator rand paul of kentucky is a hard no. so they will need at

least eight senate democrats. and look, democrats had a long lunch meeting of about two hours earlier today, and they emerged without a consensus. senate minority leader chuck schumer did not take a position on the house bill. that tells me that democrats are divided, and there might enough to get the eight votes they need to pass this bill, send it over to president trump, and leave at the end of this week for recess. i know it sounds ridiculous, alicia, but getting out of town for recess is a real motivator for members of congress to get stuff done quickly. >> it does indeed sound ridiculous, especially in times like these. nbc's sahil kapur thank you. let's bring in our panel. catherine rampell, washington post columnist and newly announced co-host of the evening edition of the weekend on msnbc. eugene daniels, msnbc senior washington, washington correspondent and soon to be co-host of the morning edition of the weekend and msnbc political analyst. tim o'brien, senior executive editor of bloomberg opinion. it is good to see you all. i get your point

about the fact that trump wants this off his plate because he wants to go focus on tax cuts and more money for his mass deportation plan and all that. but i think it is important to take a beat and talk about what it is that they just advance. yes, it reduces spending by about $7 billion from 2024 levels, but it cuts $13 billion in non-defense discretionary spending across the federal departments. what's this actually going to mean for americans. >> you know another line item in there is they're cutting $20 billion out of the irs. so in addition to pursuing a tax cut, they're gutting the agency that collects taxes. and the net result of that is lower revenue for a federal government that delivers services to the united states and to average citizens who are dependent on such things as medicare, medicaid and social security. so it's an ongoing gutting of the machinery of the federal government, and most of what musk and doge and other members of the trump

administration have been doing so far is performative. they're laying off workers who contribute less than 2% to federal spending, while while crippling the ability of the federal government to do its job. and, and, and i think this is going to go into hyperdrive in the fall because you'll get a tax cut. you'll get appropriations for immigration. you'll get appropriations for defense and cuts everywhere else. so americans are going to have to confront the reality that this isn't just a campaign speech. it's a reordering of the federal government in a way that's going to affect their lives in very direct ways. >> talking about that reordering of the federal government, eugene, late this afternoon, the department of education announced it's going to lay off about 50% of its workforce. what is your reporting telling you about how that happened, why it happened, what it's going to mean for education in this country? >> yeah, i mean, first, this. >> is something that republicans. >> have. >> wanted to do for a really long time, right? >> many of them want to just get rid of it. we are in.

>> just days or weeks, possibly. it's unclear. president trump is. >> expected to. sign some. >> kind of executive. order trying to dismantle. >> whatever that means, the education department. >> it's important for people. >> to know and remember that the education department. >> was written into law by. >> congress, and congress is. supposed to, if they want to get rid of it, do that, but they don't have the. >> votes for. >> with even with republicans. >> to do something. like that. >> what that tells. >> people around here is that those federal dollars are going to come down, are going to slow down. >> to across. >> the country where it's unclear where, right. we have. >> to still go. >> through some of this and figure out what they're talking about. but that's what's expected. >> and we're already. >> after covid. >> have seen. >> how far behind students are. and so when you. >> talk to parents. >> when. >> you talk to teachers, especially the concerns. >> about what this looks. >> like is out there, right? whether whether it be on the college level or other schools. >> that get funding from. >> the federal. >> government, all of that is concerning for. >> parents who want their. >> kids to do. better in school,

especially for black and brown and poorer kids in some of the inner cities around the country. >> so, catherine, they're cutting funding for education. they are also talking now about cutting entitlements. i want you to take a listen to what elon musk had to say about this. >> the goal here is let's not have america go bankrupt with waste and fraud. the waste and fraud in entitlement spending, which is all of the which is most of the federal spending, is entitlements. so that that's that's like the big one to eliminate. >> so what's funny, as you know, is that republicans are really good at bobbing and weaving around this question. and yet elon musk goes on national tv and is like, no, no, no, i'm talking about entitlements. >> he is correct that the lion's share of. >> federal spending. >> is entitlements and. >> it is defense. >> we are. >> essentially a retirement state. >> with. >> an army. and. >> you know. >> it's a third rail to. >> talk. >> about cutting entitlements. >> for very. >> good reasons, right. a lot of americans have.

>> come to depend on. >> these programs social security, ssi, ssdi. >> to pay. >> the bills. >> to feed. >> themselves. >> feed. >> their families. >> but it. >> it is. very controversial. if in fact. >> you were trying to. >> reduce the size. >> of the government, those would be plum targets. and or you could raise taxes if you wanted to narrow deficits, which, as tim has laid out, not only are they not raising taxes, but they are actually making it much less likely that they will continue to collect the taxes that are already legally owed for every single dollar that the irs spends, they bring in something like $6 in return for audits of high income taxpayers. so a lot of money is being lost in that endeavor. and meanwhile, there are attacking where elon musk is attacking this very popular program. and then we haven't even talked about things like medicaid, which other which lawmakers on capitol hill have

claimed falsely, that the budget resolution that they just voted for would not touch. but mathematically that is impossible. so that's another category of entitlements that, again, very popular republicans cannot get their message straight, in part because they don't know what they want to do. but on the other hand, you know, to some extent, a lot of this discussion about a cr or a budget is a little bit of a farce because congress has already voluntarily given up its constitutional power of the purse, like whatever they vote for in this cr, let's say the cr passes the senate, trump and doge are going to do what they want anyway. we've already seen that. >> right. and republicans also laid the foundation for this. going back to 2017. we had elizabeth warren on the program yesterday. she had this to say on blue sky in 2017, trump gave a $2 trillion tax cut, mostly sucked up by billionaires and big corporations. but it was so expensive, republicans set many of their tax cuts to end after

2025. now, republicans want to steal from working people to pay for more tax cuts for billionaires. so it's both that they laid the foundation for the moment that we find ourselves in. and they are also undercutting their own role in the three branches of government by ceding power to elon musk to doge and to donald trump. >> and because they're profoundly afraid of both of them. donald trump sitting on $500 billion in untapped campaign funds. musk was a, you know, a big spender in the 2024 campaign. trump today threatened to primary tom massie of kentucky for not supporting the cr, and he's wielding a cudgel in all of these talks. so it's not just it is because they lack courage. it is because they are spineless. it is because their values, as conservatives and republicans have gone out the window with this administration. but it's also because they have this practical fear about losing their jobs or getting smeared reputationally on social. the

other thing to point out about those 2017 tax cuts is the argument for them was that it would incent this massive spend on research and development at the corporate level. and it wasn't just a gimme, it was actually an incentive to corporate america to use the funds they weren't paying to the federal government on jobs and, and the efficiency of their own companies. and in fact, gimmickry ensued. they did buybacks. they they kept the money in their treasuries. none of that happened. and now they're going back to the well again. >> all right. panel staying with me. we want to continue this conversation about trumponomics with stocks extending their big losses as the president doubles down on his trade war with have you always had dowtrouble with your weight? canada. stay with us. me too. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds.

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digesting it and how do you think. >> the world is digesting. >> what trump is saying?

>> what are people. >> saying to you in new jersey about doge and what they're seeing musk and his team do here? >> what are. >> the. >> global politics for. >> some of these leaders, and why do you see them stating the opposite of what the united states president. >> has stated? >> it was yet another day of tariff whiplash brought on by president trump. it all started with a truth social post by the president escalating his trade war with canada. trump threatened to double tariffs on steel and aluminum imports after the ontario premier put a retaliatory surcharge on electricity used by more than a million americans. the president also suggested again that the only solution was for canada to become america's 51st state. well, those comments roiled the stock market for a second day in a row, causing mass chaos, only for trump to walk back his threat hours later, saying he'd

probably reconsider his decision after the ontario premier agreed to suspend that surcharge and meet with commerce secretary howard lutnick later this week. my panel is back with me, catherine rampell, eugene daniels and tim o'brien. eugene, how did we get here? >> a lot of back. >> and forth. right. >> i think. >> you know, what. >> people should. >> really understand is that donald trump's kind. >> of. obsession with. >> tariffs, using. them as a cudgel, did not start when he got into the political sphere. it's something he believed as a businessman. he deeply believes. when you talk to his aides that it's a question of fairness. and now he's not just using it to try to, you know. as an economic tool. he's also. >> using it. >> to, to force. >> whether it's canada or. >> mexico, to do other. >> things, whether it comes to. >> immigration or whatever. i will say, though. that when you talk to. >> every. economic experts, we have some. >> of what right now. with you is they will tell you. that that is it is not going to be the

case that the american people won't feel that pain. >> and that pitch, that pinch. >> that is something that everyone will say. the white house has heard that. but the president believes that at the end of the day, what his aides will say is that. >> one. >> that the folks will feel the pressure. these business people will feel the pressure of keeping the jobs here. then the prices. >> will. >> go down. and there's a whole cyclical aspect of it, but we've never. >> seen it. >> actually work out. during his first term, he did this back and forth and threatened a lot of tariffs, then moved back, threatened a lot of tariffs, then moved back. he did it already with canada and mexico a couple of times this year. and again now with this 50%. >> tariff, it is very. >> clear that the back and forth is a tussle that he likes. the white house is definitely going to show say that this shows that he is a negotiator and it's the art of the deal. but i think there is also an aspect to this that the markets were going down. consumer confidence continues to stay down. that uncertainty is adding nothing to

the economy. and for donald trump, that is how he sees himself as the person who's going to fix the economy. it's the biggest promises he's made to the american people. and so there is public pressure and the public sentiment that also is impacting this. his decisions here. >> there's public pressure. republicans have heard that public pressure. they know that these tariffs are not popular. and yet just today in that resolution we talked about, can you pull up this headline from the new york times? the republicans quietly ceded the power to cancel trump's tariffs. so it is now not clear who's supposed to hold him responsible. how long is it before americans start to feel the impact and start to show up at even more town halls and pushback? >> i think there will be something of a lag depending on where the tariffs actually land, which changes from minute to minute, obviously. so for something like steel and aluminum tariffs, those will affect the input costs of a lot of american companies, automakers for example, the highest share of a car by weight

is steel. so they are going to pay much higher prices for their input costs. and those will at least partially get passed on to consumers. but it won't happen immediately. if we were talking about things like finished consumer goods, particularly things that are that are perishable, that companies could not have stored up on. so, for example, avocados, tomatoes, other produce from mexico that at some point was tariffed and now is paused, that would show up much more quickly because companies were not able to stock up in the past few months, as they did on certain things, including inputs for automobiles, among other products. >> can you explain to me what this obsession with making canada the 51st state is? >> because it's part of donald trump's broader obsession with punishing his friends. it's irrational, it's unsophisticated, and it's utterly buffoonish, which is why it's embarrassing right now to be an american, because donald trump, it's almost as well he is

living in a different century. he invokes william mckinley's tariffs from the 19th century, and he lives in almost a mercantilist world from the 16th century, in which he thinks all these countries are in these separate little economic blocs. they don't need to trade with one another globally. and if anyone gets out of line, you punish them. but the perverse outcome of this right now is we're punishing our two biggest trading partners, mexico and canada. they are they are neighbors. they are excellent economic partners. we don't have a trading relationship with mexico. we have this deeply intertwined production operation that runs up and down the supply chain with automobiles, agriculture. as kathryn pointed out, electronics, goods. and when you ask where people will feel this, think about a store like walmart. 80% of the goods on walmart shelves are sourced from mexico. a third of the producers in mexico are us owned companies. and i was in mexico

about a week ago and met with ceos down there, and they were mexican and american ceos, and they were befuddled as to why trump would run around like yosemite sam, shooting himself in the foot constantly because it makes no economic sense, and it's going to hurt american consumers. it's already hurting the economy. and that's why the stock market is reacting the way it is. but trump isn't doing it because it's economically rational. >> there's no strategy here. >> well, there is no strategy, but there's a goal. and the goal is personal hegemony and public hegemony for the united states through this sort of caveman window. that is not how the world works in a sophisticated 21st century environment. but that's not where he's living. and so he's punishing friends at the expense of americans. >> i want you to take a listen to what one of those friends had to say. this is ontario premier doug ford on with our colleague ana cabrera. >> i'm not too sure. >> why he continues to. attack his closest friends and allies, but we need the arican people

to speak up. we need those ceos to actually get a backbone and stand in front of them and tell them, this is going to be a disaster. it's mass chaos right now. >> so eugene got 30s left, but republicans just ceded their ability to stand up to him in a meaningful way. is it going to be ceos that are the ones who hold the line? >> if people are hoping that that's going to be the case, i have bad news for them. i don't. think so. right? just like republicans have ceded it. i think business people are worried and scared about what would happen if they go against donald trump when they come behind, when they go in front of him, whether it's behind the scenes or if they're in front of the cameras. it's kind of the same, right? they laud him because they know he likes that. people think that if you do that, that's the best way to ingratiate yourself with donald trump. but at the end of the day, if they're not telling him the exact truth of this, then he's i don't know where else he would he with us. upec and confusion of how the free

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to the aid of the richest man in the world, elon musk. in a social media post overnight, president trump called the recent protests of musk's teslas illegal and promised he would personally buy one today. he even had multiple teslas delivered to the white house for him to view, and effectively gave musk free advertising from 1600 pennsylvania avenue. fox news anchor and trump supporter sean hannity also vowing to purchase one. trump's daughter in law, former rnc co-chair lara trump, is insisting that americans ought to be kissing the feet of elon musk for what he is supposedly sacrificing to help this country and even our country's top diplomat, secretary of state marco rubio, took a very undiplomatic swipe at an ally, poland, over the weekend in order to defend musk and his company's starlink. the panel is back with me, catherine rampell, eugene daniels and tim o'brien. okay, so trump has this private tesla viewing at the white house, and then he comes out to show it to you with notes

as though he is a car salesman. take a look at that in the sharpie, which is how you know it's real. teslas can be purchased as low as 2.99 a month or 35 k. all cars have self-driving just needs to be turned on. i mean, what does it say that people are currently freaked out about their 401 k's, freaked out about whether or not they can go to the grocery store and purchase eggs that they're talking about cutting social security, which yes, i see you yelling at me on blue sky. it is not an entitlement. you paid into it. that is why you are entitled to it. and instead, what he's choosing to spend his time doing is a car commercial for tesla. >> it's just bizarre. you know, i am old enough to remember when it was a scandal, a scandal that ivanka trump seemed to endorse a can of goya beans and that kellyanne conway, you know, decided to endorse, in turn, ivanka trump's clothing line. but that was so 2017, 2018. now, apparently we don't care about

these ethical conflicts anymore. and look, the reason why they are shilling for elon musk is obviously that, no. well, not nobody. but sales have tanked for teslas, and as has the stock price for tesla, the company. and it's no mystery why. right. there's a reason why companies have historically tried to stay away from divisive culture war issues, because they are worried about alienating a certain segment of their customers, and sometimes they get it wrong. right? you saw the boycotts of bud light and target and other places when republicans were really mad about decisions that those companies had taken. not only does elon musk, you know, not avoid the culture wars. he is a, you know, happy culture warrior. and of course, he is helping dismantle the federal government. like plenty of reasons why customers would boycott them. and now trump is trying to prop up his friend's company. >> i just. >> got to.

>> say. >> it feels like the presidency was already sort of the end game of influencer culture gone too far. but the fact that you have the president, the president of the united states standing outside the white house pretending as though it is a backdrop or a prop, a car dealership is it is more than i could possibly imagine. so there's that piece of it. i'm going to let you talk about that. but then you also overnight have this post claiming that protests at tesla dealerships are illegal. he said today he would label violence against dealerships, domestic terrorism. you know, i am judicious in how i play this sound, but i think you need to hear it from him. >> mr. president. talks about some of. >> the. >> violence that's been. >> going on around the. >> country at dealerships. >> some say. >> they should be. labeled domestic. >> terrorists because we'll do that. i'll do it. i'm going to stop them. we catch anybody doing it because they're harming a great american company. let me tell you, you do it to tesla and

you do it to any company. we're going to catch you and you're going to you're going to go through hell. >> so just to be clear, you protest a private company. you are labeled by this administration, a domestic terrorist. you show up at the us capitol on january 6th with the intent to overturn a fair and free election, and you get a pardon. >> and you commit acts of violence and threaten federal legislators, and you get a you get a pass. but if you insult donald trump's friends or you insult the people who bankroll his existence, you'll get put in handcuffs. and, you know, it's always amazing to me how donald trump, when he goes off on these rants, sounds, even in that clip, like a guy in a leather chair in queens calling into a radio show and ranting, it's don from queens, and you need to go down to the tesla right now and buy one. he does it all the time and beyond the tomfoolery of it and the inanity of it is this is deeply corrupt. you have someone in the oval office who has always been a human shingle.

throughout his own business career, he sold mattresses, ties, water, everything with his name on it. he and his family are investors in cryptocurrencies. he owns a stake in a cryptocurrency exchange, and he's using the powers of the federal government to bring crypto inside. as a federally recognized asset and a backup currency in the treasury department, which immediately affects the price of his own holdings. and now he has someone in in helping him remake the federal government. elon musk, who whose entire financial well-being rests on the effervescent stock price of tesla. it's his currency for doing deals. it's his currency for having political influence. and it's under pressure not only because he's he's he's he's engaging in clown rodeos for donald trump, but it's also because the fundamentals of tesla as a company are strained right now, in part because of the action trump's own administration had taken towards green initiatives. they are they

are locked at the hip financially and politically, and they're trading on it at the expense of the american public. >> you only have 30s left. are you surprised at all that the musk presidency has lasted this long? >> no. >> i'm not surprised that that friendship and what they're doing has lasted this long. i will say we've already seen some cracks. right? you saw the fight that happened between secretary rubio and elon musk, president telling elon musk that they are in charge of the secretaries of the firing and hiring at their departments. and so there's already a lot of complaining coming trump's way about elon musk. this shows that the friendship is still there. but at the same time, people should expect that at some point, because of who these two men are, that friction may be too much for. >> them to bear. >> catherine rampell eugene daniels i am so excited for you both, and i cannot wait to wrestle the television from my children on weekends so i can watch you in the morning and at night. tim o'brien. thank you as always. coming up, more republicans are rallying to defend the potential deportation of a green card holder who

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we're going to arrest your tail, and we're going to send you home where you belong. and that this is just getting started. so, look, i, i appreciate free speech. i used. >> to defend it in court. >> but this is far beyond. >> the pale of that. >> when you are threatening. >> your classmates. >> and spewing. >> anti-semitism and all this hatred, it's enough. >> speaker mike johnson is standing by president trump's decision to arrest mahmoud khalil khalil, a permanent legal resident of the united states, was a graduate student at columbia university until december. he was detained saturday by federal immigration agents in new york and flown to an immigration jail in louisiana. he has not been charged with any crime. on monday, a federal judge in new york ordered that khalil not be deported. while the court considered a legal challenge brought by his lawyers. a hearing is scheduled for tomorrow. joining me now, paul butler, msnbc legal analyst and professor at georgetown school of law. and corey brettschneider, professor of political science at brown university, where he teaches constitutional law. he is the author of the presidents and the

people five leaders who threaten democracy and the citizens who fought to defend it. so you have trump warning that the arrests, possible deportation of khalil will be the first of many to come. what does that tell you about how he views the first amendment and how the first amendment is faring under this administration? >> he doesn't. >> understand it and he doesn't respect it. and i think what we're seeing in his general. >> policies and his statements. >> is an assault on. the very idea. >> that an america. >> when it comes. >> to government. >> we don't punish people for. >> their opinions. >> that's the idea of the first amendment. congress and. >> the government. >> don't have. >> the. power to abridge. >> free speech. >> but what. >> you see, not just in this case, and we have to understand. >> it. >> as part. >> of a. >> pattern, is. >> that. >> if you oppose this person, this president, you're going to be subject to his not just his criticisms. that would be fine. >> but to his. >> desire to imprison. >> you, to shut you down. >> and that's. >> actually the hallmark.

>> of authoritarianism. >> and it's why everybody, regardless of what you. think of this. one case or the. >> statements made. >> by this one person. >> obligated is obligated to defend democracy and stand up for free speech. >> you anticipate that they are going to make a distinction about the fact that he was not a u.s. citizen, and they will argue that because of that, the first amendment does not apply. why are they wrong? >> there is a statute that they'll cite that gives them the power. >> of deportation. in cases. >> in which they think. >> america's foreign. >> policy and. >> american policy is threatened. >> but the first amendment in this country is part of the constitution. it's above what any. statute says or what any action says. >> and it doesn't. >> distinguish between citizens and non-citizens. instead, what the first amendment does. is limit government, and. >> it limits. >> government, because in democracy, we don't trust. >> leaders like trump. to imprison people because he disagrees. >> with them. >> paul butler this like many, so many things during this administration, finds itself at the courts. talk us through what we can expect tomorrow in that hearing that's going to happen. >> so we don't. >> know a whole lot about why

mr. khalil was arrested. the government has been communicating. and tweets and social media posts. the white house said that the secretary. >> of. >> state is relying on the immigration and naturalization naturalization act, which says that the secretary of state can revoke a green card from anyone who's adversarial to foreign policy or national security interests. and that law was passed in 1952. and apparently, this provision that allows the secretary of state to expel someone has never been invoked before. so there isn't any isn't any precedent for how it works. alicia, what we do know is that the trump administration is not saying that mr. khalil had any contact with hamas, or that he took directions from it or provided any material support to it. they're saying instead that the gaza protests he led were anti-semitic and created a hostile environment for jewish students at columbia, and that the u.s. has a foreign policy of

combating anti-semitism around the world, and that it would undermine this policy if mr. khalil stays in the united states. >> is there case law? paul butler, for them to draw on here? >> no, no. >> there isn't so green holders. green card holders can be deported if they're convicted of serious crimes, or if they. >> lied on. >> their immigration forms or if they've been out of the country too long. a green card is a step below citizenship, so you're not allowed to vote or hold a u.s. passport. but you do have the same constitutional rights as anyone born in the united states, including the first amendment right to free speech and the fifth amendment right to due process. >> it feels like this is one of many inflection points that we will look back on in. someone said it feels like we are living in someone in the future's. ap

govt class during one of the most difficult periods, and it feels that the way that we respond to this moment will be telling about our path forward. >> absolutely. you know, at different. >> moments in american history and world history, we've seen authoritarian leaders rise up. and a. >> hallmark of these leaders is that they try to shut. >> down the opposition. >> through the use of force to. imprison them. >> john adams, in. the second presidency, did. >> shut down the opposition. prosecuting about 126 political opponents. and the courts didn't save us then. and as hopeful as i am that the courts will save us this time, they might not. and so what? what's so important to get to your. >> point is that american. >> citizens speak out against this wannabe. tyrant and say that in america. >> we have a first amendment. >> right to free speech. >> we demand it, and we demand to hear. >> the viewpoints and not to allow people to be shut down just for their views, i should say, about anti-semitism. they're saying this is about anti-semitism. >> but let's remember.

>> that this is the. >> same president. >> when nazis. >> marched in. charlottesville screaming jews will not replace. >> us. >> that this president said there. >> are good people. >> on both sides. >> that's not somebody who's really. concerned genuinely about anti-semitism. >> and this isn't about anti-semitism. it's about. >> shutting down the opposition. >> and regardless. >> of who you are. if he's. >> not coming for you now, he might. >> come for you in the future. and that's why it's so important that all of. us speak up and defend our constitutional rights. >> real quickly. >> before we go. >> to break, when you talk about people who have stood up in the past and said, not me, not us, not now, what do we learn from them? what has actually been the most effective? >> we see their. >> courage and we see that they often won. so the newspaper. >> editors, for instance. >> and they talk about this in. >> my book, the presidents and the people. >> who were shut down. >> by john adams use their own. trials to put adams on. >> trial and to talk about him. >> as a monarch. >> and they. >> won in the. >> election of 1800. >> thomas jefferson, when he said, we are all federalists.

>> we are all republicans. he was essentially. >> saying, we're not. >> going to shut down. >> the opposition anymore. >> frederick douglass was prosecuted. >> and. >> hounded out of the country, talking about the idea of we the people, not we the white people. and when he did that, eventually he prevailed, even though in the moment it looked like things were bleak. >> corey. paul, you're both sticking with me because coming up, we're going to explore the latest d.o.j. purge, this time targeting a pardon attorney who says she was fired after refusing to restore gun rights for a movie star who also happens to be a trump supporter. that is on the other side. >> legal cable. >> and doug. >> you'll be back. >> emus can't help. >> people customize and save. >> hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. >> you're just a flightless bird. >> no. >> he's a dreamer, frank. >> and doug.

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days a week again. >> read and listen. >> staying up half the night reading executive orders. >> for this defining time in the second trump presidency. stay with msnbc. each week, veteran lawyers andrew weissmann and mary mccord break down the latest developments inside the trump administration's department of justice.

>> the administration. >> doesn't. >> necessarily want to. >> be. >> questioned on any of its policy. >> main justice. new episodes drop every tuesday. >> a former u.s. pardon attorney elizabeth oyer, was terminated friday, reportedly after she opposed restoring actor mel gibson's rights to carry a gun. the spokesperson told nbc news that she was not told why she was terminated, but that because of the sequence of events, she believes her refusal to carry out a request to add gibson's name to a list of people to have their gun rights restored may have played a role. gibson is a supporter of president trump. he lost his gun rights after a 2011 domestic violence misdemeanor conviction. back with me. paul butler and corey brettschneider. all right. paul butler, if true, what does this say about the way the justice department is functioning? >> it says more. >> weaponization. more pardons for friends and criminal prosecutions for enemies. so at least you have federal law bans people convicted of domestic

violence from owning guns. most people who were convicted of misdemeanors can still keep their firearms. but there's an exception for domestic violence. if the crime involved threatened physical harm or use of a deadly weapon. the justice department has the authority to restore gun ownership rights in specific cases, but this has rarely happened. and you can see why. even if you look at the facts of this case. alicia. mel gibson pled no contest to beating up his girlfriend while she was holding their child. his plea deal allowed him to not to go to jail, but he was sentenced to community service counseling and three years of probation. so this is a policy and political decision by the trump administration to give gun rights to felons convicted, convicted of domestic violence. it's not a legal issue because the supreme court, as much as it loves gun rights, says that

people who've committed these kinds of serious domestic crimes, domestic abuse crimes, can have their guns taken away from them. >> as paul just laid out, this is part of a continuum. trump ordered revoke the security clearances of former secretary of state antony blinken, former national security adviser jake sullivan, former deputy attorney general lisa monaco, new york attorney general letitia james, manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, attorneys mark zaid, norman eisen, andrew weissman. i mean, what he is up to is pretty transparent and clear, and i think there's a question of whether the things he's taking away. and then there are the people that he is putting in place. right. so it is one thing to fire some of these folks who have dutifully done their job, and it is another to replace them with loyalists. >> absolutely. >> and there's. >> a. >> theme here. i think in the. >> first trump. >> term. >> we had people who understood that their oath in the federal government was to protect the law and to protect the constitution. we certainly saw that in the department of

justice, refusing to go along with his january 6th desire to. >> overturn an election. >> and this time it's different because he understands the mechanism of demanding loyalty, and that's firing anyone who's not a loyalist and only allowing people to continue to. >> work for him. >> who are going to say yes. and that's a disaster. >> for this. >> country, because. >> we have. >> laws on the books that are supposed to be followed. >> the clean air act. >> criminal law, and the job of the federal. bureaucracy of federal civil servants is to follow. >> that law. >> and he's rewriting history, turning it into following him. >> he's rewriting history. paul butler, he's gutting institutions. in the last hour, nbc news reported that the trump administration is slashing the size of the justice department's unit that oversees prosecutions of public officials accused of corruption. only a fraction of the section's employees, about half a dozen, are going to remain in that office. until recently, they oversaw all federal corruption cases. nationwide, housed dozens of employees, two sources said. paul, i am sure you could have anticipated that this was coming, and yet it would seem

foundational to what is ahead. >> exactly right. i could not have anticipated it before inauguration day of trump 2.0, but this now seems like a culmination of trump's long term project of trying to get rid not only of people with expertise in public corruption, but any law enforcement officer, fbi agent or prosecutor who worked on cases against donald trump. the idea is to send a chilling of message, a message that has a chilling effect. if you investigate this president, you will lose your job and possibly you will be prosecuted for a crime for trying to do your job. so this isn't a justice department that i recognize. alicia, i was proud to serve in both democratic and republican and republican administrations. we've never seen anything like this. >> we've never seen god. do you

want something? we've never seen anything like this. have we seen things like this outside of this country? i got about 20s. >> i think. >> we've seen authoritarianism outside the country. we've had moments. i mentioned adams, we've had presidents who have tried to shut down speech. wilson. but we've fought back and we won, and that's what we've got to do. again. >> corey, brad schneider, thank you for being with me in studio. paul butler, as always, thank you for your expertise. and be sure to stick around in the next hour. chris hayes is going to be joined by elizabeth oyer, the justice department attorney we were just talking about. but that is all for us. i'm alicia menendez. i'm going to see you again tomorrow night, 7 p.m. eastern. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on. >> all in. >> what president. >> trump. >> is doing is insane. >> it is absolutely insane. the mad king. >> sends the markets plummeting. now he's saying he's putting 50%. >> tariffs on. >> canada unless. >> they agree to become the. >> 51st state. >> that is insane.