reaction? >> do you. >> think about ice coming to knock on your. >> front door to. >> you for president trump's first 100 days? alex wagner travels to the story to talk with people most impacted by the policies. >> were you. >> there on january? >> i was. >> there on january 6th. >> did it surprise you that you. >> were fired. >> given how resolutely nonpartisan. >> you have been? >> and for more in-depth reporting, follow her podcast, trumpland with alex wagner.

>> good to be with you. >> i'm katie tur. >> can you make sense of the tariffs? not many can, because if this was a thought out and concerted effort to remake the american economy and bring manufacturing home, this is not a successful approach. according to both conservative and liberal economists, it's also not exactly clear that that is what donald trump is trying to do. because if it was, he wouldn't be repeatedly announcing and then reversing or pausing and then announcing tariffs again and again and again. if the strategy was coherent, it would be clear. but it's not clear not to the markets like the dow, which was down all day before it suddenly came back up a moment ago. not to mention american businesses, not to foreign leaders, and not even, it seems, to donald trump's own administration. just consider

howard lutnick, the commerce secretary, who has contradicted and even gotten in front of his boss multiple times on whether there will be tariffs and what the impact of those tariffs will be. case in point, donald trump saying there will be a, quote, little disturbance in the economy, while almost at the same time, lutnick told meet the press, no. absolutely not. no recession, no chance. so you might be asking yourself, what is the point of all of this? take a listen to the white house press corps yesterday. it's they try to figure it out. >> i'm sorry. >> have you ever. paid a tariff? >> because i have. >> they don't get. >> charged on foreign companies. >> they get. >> charged on the importers. >> i think it's insulting that you are. >> trying. >> to test my knowledge of economics. i'm now regret. >> giving a question to the. associated press. >> any concern here. >> that it's. >> going to be harder to ask certain federal workers. to retire. if they look at their retirement accounts and they're getting rocked every day. >> there's great indication. >> to be optimistic about where the economy stands. workers should bet. >> on president trump.

>> there's a lot of concern for a lot of americans right now about the state of the economy. can the white house. >> just tell. >> and assure americans today that there's not going to be a recession. >> when it comes to the stock market? >> the numbers that we see today. are a snapshot of a moment. >> in time. we are. >> in. >> a period. >> of economic transition. >> does the president think he. bears any responsibility for the turmoil in the stock market? at what point, how. >> far do stocks have to fall before. >> the. >> president considers it a factor. >> and changes course? again. >> as i just said, the president. >> will look out for wall. >> street. >> and for main street. >> you're sure. >> nobody here at the white house shorted the dow? >> no, i don't think so. >> quite a question there from peter doocy. that montage, by the way, courtesy of our friends at the recount. and if the white house was frustrated by the brady briefing room where the press is. imagine what it felt when it read today's op ed from the wall street journal editorial board. quote. commerce secretary howard lutnick said over the weekend that the president's tariffs would make some foreign products more expensive. but american products will get cheaper. companies that use foreign components will have

to raise prices or swallow narrower profit margins. does mr. lutnick understand? well, commerce going on to cite the snowballing rise in counter-tariffs coming back to the u.s. from canada, the board writes, quote, the trouble with trade wars is that once they begin, they can quickly escalate and get out of control. all the more so when politicians are nearing an election campaign, as canada now is, or when mr. trump behaves as if his manhood is implicated because a foreign nation won't take his nasty border taxes lying down. we said from the beginning that this north american trade war is the dumbest in history, and we were being kind. again, that's from the wall street journal. joining us now, nbc news senior business correspondent christine romans, nbc news white house correspondent vaughn hillyard, national affairs correspondent at the nation john nichols and punchbowl news co-founder and

msnbc political contributor jake sherman. does this make any sense? >> does what exactly does. >> what part. >> of this make any sense? >> because so. >> many sense. >> can you find a through line? or a through line for what donald trump is trying to accomplish here? and whether if you do have an idea of what it is, whether he's going to get there. >> he has lionized president mckinley's administration. which is, of course, before there were cars even built. and he thinks that he wants to go back to that kind of a model for the united states. at the same time, you've got major industries that it's. >> a. >> globalized economy, and he wants to undo that and reverse it. it will be incredibly. >> incredibly traumatic. he wants to undo the 40 or so years of anger and this feeling that american workers were left behind, that their lives haven't gotten better. fine. there are people that will argue with that. they will say that's actually not the case. but there are others who will say it is if

he wants to truly bring manufacturing home, to make this country a place that relies more thoroughly on itself. is this the path to get there? >> i'm not. >> sure that we're even on that path. you laid it out so beautifully. >> he starts. >> and he stops. there's carve outs, there's. >> delays. >> there's new deadlines. and when i talk to people who are in the finance industry. >> and business owners. >> they're concerned about the. >> strategy specifically. >> because they look at what's happening with canada and they don't understand how. the canadian animosity fits. >> into the whole. >> big picture. you know, canada's got 30, 40 million people compared to the united states. it's a much completely canada, they say, is not ripping off the united states. but the president really feels that way. they question the strategy. if there really is a strategy here, if there's a playbook or every day the president wakes up and decides, today, i want. >> to do this. >> do you have a sense from the administration that they're all on the same page? >> they are all on the same page now. i think in the first administration they weren't. there were people who were against tariffs and said, look,

when you look over the course of history, tariffs have been damaging to the country that imposes them. they're very hard to de-escalate when countries start firing in this circular firing squad at each other of tariffs. and in fact, really bad periods of in american history have been, you know, have been caused by like the great depression, have been caused by, by tariffs. and so there were some of those voices around him in the first administration. i don't know that those voices are there anymore. >> is there any tension between howard lutnick and scott bessent or howard lutnick and kevin hassett? >> sure. i mean, in the beginning, there was this feeling coming from the white house that, no, no, everything's going to be fine. if anything bad happens, it's because biden, it was biden's fault. and now they're saying no. if something bad happens, if there is a detox or if there is a, you know, if there's a disturbance, it'll be worth it. so i think the language is shifting a little bit to acknowledge that it's going to be tough in the near term to get to where they want to go long term. >> vaughn, do you get a sense that this is a long term? again, i'm going to call it a strategy, but it's not quite clear that the strategy is coherent, but that they are willing to allow

donald trump to announce and then reverse and pause or announce tariffs over and over again in order to get somewhere if they're willing to tolerate the downturn in the markets and potentially the downturn in the economy. >> right. howard lutnick, himself the commerce secretary, suggested overnight to cbs that a potential recession could be worth it. and when you look at the oval office. >> just a couple of days ago to meet the press, and this is what's so confusing that there would never be a recession, it was definitive about it. so that's where i you lose me and i'm not somebody who's i'm not an american business owner. i'm not a manufacturer. i'm not an importer or exporter. i'm not somebody that's in control of giant amounts, amounts of money in the stock market. so it's just very confusing. >> and that is where i think it is difficult because we have not heard from president trump or this cabinet exactly what their expectations for concessions from our trading partners are from canada, who the foreign

minister, finance minister spoke out today and said that ahead of their meeting with commerce secretary lutnick tomorrow, that they have no intention of renegotiating the usmca trade agreement that was struck in 2018 between canada and mexico and the united states. that reauthorization period doesn't begin until next year. and they said that the tariffs that the american president has implemented in place on canada have been unwarranted and were came as a result of no direct actions taken by canada. and i think when we're looking at the long term part of this, we got to go back to that first administration. and i think the china trade negotiations are could be very indicative of what the second trump administration's negotiations could look like, because the trade war with china started in may and june of 2018. and it wasn't until a year and a half later that a phase one part of the trade agreement was ultimately struck between china and the united states. in a big justification for the tariffs in the harm that u.s. agricultural

producers went through as a result of those tariffs over that year and a half. a big justification was that they would ultimately get china to agree to not manipulate the market supply or not engage in ip theft. and neither of those things ended up ended up ever actually being a part of the phase one trade agreement two years later. and so i think that that is where there are some serious questions for this administration as to what concessions they actually expect to get out of china, out of the eu, out of canada, and whether any of these countries have shown any indication in these months ahead that there is any open capacity to begin negotiating on those terms that the president and his cabinet are seeking? >> yeah. on the subject of concessions, what are you hearing, jake, in on the congressional side of things about donald trump's aims here and the discomfort that's being caused? i'll put up his approval rating on the economy. according to a new cnn poll, 56% a

majority of the public disapproves of his handling of the economy so far. by the way, that's worse than at any point during his first term in office. that's a surprising number, jake. >> yeah. >> listen. >> there's not much criticism. >> i think people. >> don't know what he's doing. i don't have to think. i mean, most people say they don't know what he's doing. speaker johnson has been defending him, saying that we are effectively has said we're in a transition period. john thune, the senate majority leader, keeps saying, you know, my view on tariffs, which is he's not a fan of this, but trump is trying to, you know, reorganize the global order. and we. should be patient as effectively his message. but i will tell you the market goes down. continues to go down like it's going down now. and i'm not talking about it. >> might be. >> up at this moment. but if it continues a downward trajectory. members of congress are going to be nervous because people, as i think you noted, katie, people are not going to be happy if. their 401. >> s or portfolios.

>> are going down. >> and they're looking to retire. i think that was. >> in the. >> clip that you showed. >> at the top. >> the patience to reorganize the global trade order. >> is just going to is going to wane significantly. >> to. >> the. extent it exists now. i don't even really know. and on top of that, just with all the chaos with government. >> funding and the tax. >> bill and everything that's going on on capitol hill, there's just not going to be an appetite. >> for large scale trade war. >> and i. >> think that will start. >> to rear its head in a couple of weeks. >> this is on top of jake. what could be cuts in medicare, medicaid, social security. i mean, it's not just 401. s we have to remember that not everybody in this country has a 401 k or even participates in the stock market, but there are a whole lot of folks that rely on those social services. everybody is paying into social security. >> right. >> and republicans. say on. >> repeat that. >> they're not going to cut people's benefits. >> we'll see how. >> they define benefits as we get farther down the road on

their tax bill. they are looking to be clear. they are looking for hundreds of billions of dollars of savings, up to $880 billion. in savings from programs under under the energy and commerce committee's jurisdiction, which includes health care programs like medicaid. so we are not only looking at a reshuffling or a reimagining of the global trade order, we are also looking at a restructuring of sorts of the social safety net. and all of those things combined. and on top layer, on top of that, a president who cannot run for reelection is more impervious to pressure than he has ever been in the past. yeah. and you're talking about an interesting. >> situation for congressional. >> republicans, many of whom will be on the ballot in 2026. >> i wonder if this is a too cynical of a view of it. but, john, i'll ask you this. could this tariff show where donald trump is claiming that the tax will be on foreign companies,

foreign nations? that's not true. the tax ends up ends up getting passed on to the consumers where the you know, the product is coming, that's consumers here. but if he's going to go out there and claim again wrongly that it's we're taxing all these companies, we're making a ton of money from these these foreign nations. we're rebalancing things. we can afford to give the wealthy a big tax cut, a $4.5 trillion tax cut. don't worry about the deficit. we're going to pay it off in another way. >> look, bernie sanders is out. traveling across. >> the country. >> holding rallies and events. >> where he's talking about exactly this. and the. >> biggest problem that sanders has had so far is how many people are showing up. they're having to have overflow rooms, and he's having to speak outside because there is a lot of. agitation across america on these issues. and i'll note, for what it's worth, that sanders is going to republican held

congressional districts. he's not going to, you know, places where there's, you know, big bases of support for democrats necessarily. and so i think what i would tell you is that we when we talk about these issues, tend to focus on them in precise ways. and we'll talk about a tariff, we'll talk about inflation, we'll talk about medicare, medicaid, social security, the concerns about all of that, about all the chaotic developments as regards the federal government. people don't see it that way. i think that folks out across america simply go to a question of, am i feeling good about where the economy is headed? where am i feeling that the people who are in charge in washington know what they're doing? and as has just been, you know, highlighted by this conversation we're having right here, they don't there is clear, you know, changing, of course, on a regular basis, there's clear division within political

groupings. republicans in congress, not sure what the white house is doing. et cetera. and what that all adds up to is that 56% disapproval rating that you just saw in the poll, that's not going to go away as a trade war that we now mostly see as involving canada and mexico extends into a global trade war. i'll remind people that today the european union was talking about retaliatory retaliatory tariffs. canada was talking about them. other countries, you know, uk, australia, japan, korea, all trying to figure out how to deal with this. and of course, china the big player you this doesn't stop this doesn't end tomorrow. and so as a result the one thing i would say is i think it's an incredible economic chaos. and that leads to a political challenge, i think for the trump administration. >> john, i don't want to come off as if i'm taking a position

that all tariffs are bad and just, you know, buying into into that narrative or just discounting the narrative that discounting those who feel like they've been left behind and that nafta was not a good deal for them. there are a lot of people out there that don't like it and would say that on balance, their lives are not better, even though they can buy more cheaper. is there a way to look at this and say, this is an adjustment that needs to happen, and donald trump, because he's not beholden to voters any longer because he doesn't have to run, he can't run again. he's going to be he. this is how he's going to do it. he's got runway to do this because he's not being he's not up for reelection. >> the trade deals that they did in the 90s and through much of the 2000 were very damaging to a lot of industrial communities, to a lot of industrial workers in this country. you just can't really paint it any other way. people feel that and they know

it. lots of factories closed, lots of communities suffered a great deal. so you can't change that understanding. and so there is a tremendous number of americans who believe that tariffs could be good. right. that done in the right way. they might bring some of those jobs back. they might even reopen the factory in some town that that saw it shuttered some years ago. i can tell you that that is usually a hopeful approach, because these factories don't often reopen. but what i can also tell you is that during the process of those free trade deals, you saw an integration of the economies of the united states, mexico and canada. as a result, parts come from one place, they move to another place, and it just simply is a very, very interwoven and complex process. now step away from all of that explanation and get to the heart of the matter. tariffs can be good. they can,

when they are carefully applied in this new, complex, interwoven economy, create a circumstance where you might bring some jobs back, where you might even reopen a factory. that is the goal of a lot of unions. that's the goal of a lot of working class people in this country. it's not a bad goal, but it has to be done in a smart way. if it's not done in a smart way, you could actually make things worse. >> all right. john nichols. christina, i saw you taking so many notes. i wish i had any time to ask you another question, but i do not. jake sherman, thank you as well. and, vaughn hillyard, i appreciate it. still ahead. as john just discussed, is there an upside to donald trump's tariffs for american companies? i'm going to talk to two business owners with opposite views on this. one is steel plant owner and the other one needs aluminum for his business. plus, the department of education's workforce is being slashed in half. what it

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is, in addition to the roughly 600 people who had already accepted voluntary resignation buyouts or early retirement. here was education secretary linda mcmahon laying it out on fox news last night. >> is this. >> the. >> first step on the road to a total shutdown? >> yes, actually it is, because that was the president's mandate. his directive to me clearly is to shut down the department of education, which we know will have to work with congress, you know, to get that accomplished. but what we did today was to take the first step of eliminating what i think is, is bureaucratic bloat. >> joining us now, former secretary of education under president obama, john king jr. thank you for being with us. >> thanks for the opportunity. >> donald trump keeps saying and linda mcmahon echoes this. they want to send education back to the states. what does the doe do that hampers the state control over public schools? >> actually. >> the truth of the matter. >> is that education is largely.

>> controlled by. >> states and. >> local school boards. 90% of the. >> funding comes from the. >> states and local districts, but. >> the education. >> department plays a vital role. funding for schools serving low income students. funding for services for students with disabilities, funding for the. federal student aid program so that students can go to college. civil rights protection making sure. >> that. >> schools can't discriminate against students based on their race or their disability or their gender. we need those services. that is part of the. federal responsibility to help the country. >> my kids go to public school here in new york city, and when there is a kid who has special needs in the classroom, some sort of learning disability, there is an extra teacher in that classroom for that student. is that coming from the federal government? >> often federal funding is helping to make that possible. >> and if. >> that funding goes away. >> there will. >> be many students. >> who won't get. >> their services. >> where will those students primarily be located?

>> disproportionately in high needs communities. and that's across the country. >> that's high needs. >> rural communities. and in. >> red states. >> that's high need urban communities and blue. states and everything in between. >> curriculum. is the federal government controlling the curriculum? >> no, quite the contrary. in fact, the law says the federal government can't play a role in curriculum that's decided at the local level. but if students are being denied an opportunity to learn, if students because of their race aren't placed in advanced placement classes, there ought to be a place where you can go for someone to do something about that. >> is there a way to transfer any of these services to other departments? linda mcmahon has said that hhs could take control over, you know, funding for kids with disabilities. >> look, bureaucratic reshuffling is always possible, but that's a distraction from the real work. right at this moment, we should have a federal initiative to address the learning loss from covid. students are still behind where they were before covid. we should be having a national

conversation about that, but instead we're having a conversation about restructuring. >> they're making it about covid. in fact, they're saying that part of the problem is the department of education got involved in covid and kept schools closed. you know, in tandem with the teachers unions. and that's how they're they're demonizing the doe right now. >> again, those were decisions made at the local level. but what the federal education department did do was invest significant resources in tutoring, which we know is a critical way for students who are behind to catch up. that's a real legacy of the biden administration. that investment in intensive tutoring. >> mr. secretary, thank you very much for joining us today. i appreciate it. >> thanks so much. >> especially on this day. coming up, what my next guest is saying about his manufacturing company, what he wants out of this administration when it comes to tariffs on steel. plus, ukraine is backing americans. america's cease fire deal. getting russia to agree could be the tricky part, though. what the kremlin is saying about the

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president of capone iron corporation of rowley, massachusetts, stephen capone, really good to have you. >> thank you. >> thank you for the opportunity. this is great. >> explain what it's going to mean for your company to have these tariffs on canadian steel. >> well, you know. >> as far as. >> being a steel fabricator here located in new england, we're. >> really subject to canadian competition. canadian competition has long dominated our industry. it's put many businesses. generational family businesses out of. >> business over the. >> past 30 years. >> so we're hoping. >> that this. >> levels the playing field. >> for us. >> it's 25% enough. >> well, it's a start. let's see if that. >> slows. >> them down. but the 25%. >> will at least. >> stop the canadians from importing cheap foreign. >> steel, fabricating. >> it. >> and shipping. >> it down to the new england states. >> give me your argument for why american steel is better, even when it is expensive. i know you've made this argument about

building locally and how contracts for state, state buildings and whatnot end up going to canadian steel instead of american steel, and how that ends up just hurting everybody. explain. >> well. >> there's. >> a couple of things in play. first of all, supply. >> chain issues, if you remember what happened during. >> covid, there was. >> supply chain issues. and you think about the owner of new england patriots. >> he had. >> to send. >> his. >> planes to china to get n95. masks that weren't produced or produced in sufficient quantities. >> here in the. >> states. >> we won't. >> suffer supply. >> chain issues. that's one. number one. >> number two. >> there's an economic. >> multiplier that comes. >> into play here. and it's very important to. >> keep. >> american industry vital. structural steel is a vital industry to the united states. >> what do you say to those who worry that manufacturing can't be done fast enough here? you can't scale it quickly enough to meet the needs of the moment, and that what's going to end up happening is there's going to be a downturn.

>> that is not true. >> there's plenty of capacity at the mills. >> here in the united states. >> there's plenty. >> of capacity with the fabricators in the united. >> states. >> their plants in canada. and our plants here in the states are at par. their machinery is the same as our machinery. >> their workers. >> are no better than our workers, their technology no better than ours. the only thing i could say is, and it's a campaign i've been working on for over 30 years, it's on public construction. steel projects. for public buildings funded by our taxpayer dollars are benefiting canadians. they control 95% of the public construction market at the state level. in addition, they control 80% of the market here in new england. they've created a monopoly over the steel fabrication industry here in new england. >> mr. capone, thank you so much for joining us, stephen. really, really do appreciate it. it's good to have a positive view of what's going on. thank you. >> thank you. it's a pleasure. >> thank you. >> and joining us now, president

and co-founder of ska brewing dave thibodeau. dave i know you have the counter perspective on this. you own a brewery. you rely very heavily on aluminum, which has also been tariffed 25% the aluminum for your beer cans. why are you not in agreement with what stephen was just laying out? >> i mean. >> i understand. >> i understand. his point. >> for sure. >> and i think obviously that's the ultimate goal. >> but for. >> us, and i think you. >> got to. >> think. about. >> downstream manufacturers when you're talking about aluminum or steel. but for us, two thirds of our revenue comes from the beer that we sell in aluminum cans. >> and so the trickle. >> down, even. though even though. >> ultimately the. >> long term goal is going to be to increase american manufacturing, you know, we have. >> a we have a. >> we don't even have the smelting capacity as far as aluminum goes in the united states to meet the current demand. and so, you know,

that's. something canada has been investing in for the last hundred years, where we really haven't been investing in that infrastructure. so the cost for those of us that are downstream, you know, from the actual producers, that's where it's going to we're going to hit, get hit and lose jobs. and, you know, it's things. it could be a bike manufacturer. it could be somebody who makes nuts and bolts i don't know. but but for us, you know, we're just going to get hit with an increase in the cost of our aluminum cans, the bulk of our revenue. we already have really slim margins. we're at about the threshold that the public can handle. i think as far as our as our pricing goes. so it's difficult to raise prices. so we will have to pass it on to consumers. but i'm just concerned that we might be to the point where they might not want to pay that increase any longer. >> do you get the sense that there is an appetite from consumers to support manufacturing here, and in doing

so, support higher prices for products that are made here, including craft beer that you sell. >> i do, you know, i think i think people do want to support american industry. and i think whether it's the, you know, a steel or an aluminum producer or a craft brewer like myself, i think americans generally do want to support that. and i understand that the problem is the amount of time, you know, we can't we can't sustain. i think the consumer is willing to pay a little bit more. but with all the hits, as an industry, that craft beer has taken pretty much since the pandemic, our margins, especially for a brewery like us where we sell a lot of beer wholesale around the rest of the state and neighboring states, and even we even export some beer to other countries. those margins are so slim. and if we don't, i don't think i think we're at the threshold that the consumer is willing to pay. so raising prices is kind of out of the question. so really what

it's going to come down to is who can hang in there and bridge this gap. and i you know, i think i think obviously it's a negotiation and everything is really fluid right now. so you hope at the end of the day these last for that long. >> how do you. >> plan how do you plan? i know that, you know, the busy season is obviously summer, but you're going to start manufacturing earlier than that. how do you plan when you're not quite sure what the tariff is going to be? >> yeah, that's a great question for us. i mean, what i would like to do normally if when faced with a situation like this, we would we would buy in bulk or try to buy more inventory, you know, before those tariffs or the price increase that might come along with them actually trickles down to us. the problem, especially in colorado, where we're incredibly seasonal, is we're coming out of our slow season where where cash is tight. so we keep inventory lean and we don't really have the capability to be purchasing in bulk or purchasing

extra anything. you know, while we wait. >> all right. thank you so much. i really appreciate your time. dave thibodeau. good luck out there. and tell me what your company is called, what your brewery is called. >> it's ska brewing company. >> ska brewing company in colorado, thank you very much. and still ahead what will russia do? will they agree to the cease fire deal that was negotiated between the ukrainians and the americans? plus, what lawyers for the trump administration demanded in court today during a hearing for columbia grad hearing for columbia grad student mahmoud kha we're still going for that sweet shot. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused by a heart valve problem... we're going for eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke. don't stop eliquis without asking your doctor. stroke risk may increase. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. don't take if you have an artificial heart valve, abnormal bleeding, or antiphospholipid syndrome.

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(800) 378-9643. call now. >> president trump says it is now up to russia to accept the 30 day cease fire ukraine agreed to yesterday. joining us now, president and founder of the eurasia group and gzero media, ian bremmer. all right. so how does the united states take this agreement from the ukrainians and walk it over to moscow and get them to say yes to it? >> well, according to zelensky. >> just in the past. >> hours that. >> the trump. >> administration has said. >> he's going to get more aid and that there will be additional u.s. sanctions on russia if putin isn't prepared to accept it. now, we haven't heard that from the americans yet, so let's take it with a grain of salt. but nonetheless, what a difference a day makes. and this is a very, very different position for ukraine, which is now no longer suspended

from their intelligence support and. military aid from the. united states, and has agreed with the americans to a deal that trump wants and that putin and putin's advisors haven't yet commented on. it looked to me from everything i've seen from around the kremlin for the last 24 hours. katie, they were surprised by this. it didn't look like they had any inside or advance information that the americans were intending to push the ukrainians for a bilateral agreement on a 30 day cease fire. they now have it. and the russians, if they want to go ahead and do a bigger deal with the americans and keep the europeans out, which putin very much wants, he has to find a way to not say hell no to the american offer. i suspect he's going to try to complicate it, delay it out a bit, say, we could do that. but here are some asks that we have. but but i think a straight no from the from putin and the kremlin is should not be in the cards here. >> do you expect that donald trump might change his tune again. it's been whiplash the way that he's reacted to the

ukrainians, to president zelensky. he's apparently, he says, going to have a call with vladimir putin later this week. do you expect that he might not? he'll come out of that call singing the same tune about a 30 day cease fire. >> well, i mean, the outcome's perhaps day to day have reflected whiplash, but not not trump's interest. trump's interest has been. i don't really care who i'm talking to. i want the war over. he's been very consistent on that from day one, well before he won the election. and it's not all that different, katie, from what we saw when he wanted to get those american troops out of afghanistan in his first term. he wanted the troops out. he engaged directly with the taliban. he didn't get bring the afghan government that the americans were providing all the aid to and that were supporting, didn't bring them into the conversation and also didn't ask for coordination or permission

from the american allies in nato and in the middle east that had been fighting shoulder to shoulder with american soldiers for 20 years. so, i mean, i know the stakes are a lot higher when we're talking about russia, ukraine and europe. but, i mean, trump's orientation has been actually remarkably consistent. >> i had kaja kallas on yesterday, the eu chief foreign diplomat, and she does not have a positive view of what's going to happen in the future. she took a pretty long pause before answering my question on that. the eu is worried about this deal, and they're worried that that russia will just regroup and try to go in again. should they be. >> they should be worried. i know kaya, she's a great patriot, both for her nation as well as for the europeans. she's been very, very strong in support for ukraine, among the strongest of all of europe's leaders right now. and what what she and they are most worried about is that the united states has displayed a level of interest, as long as they get

the war over. they don't care about coordinating with the europeans. they don't care about how much they give to russia. that that deal could include a unilateral end of u.s. sanctions and could include a unilateral end of freezing all of the oligarchs and their assets that are close to putin. you could imagine the americans coordinating in the arctic issues of security with russia. and where are the europeans in that environment? trump doesn't have a lot of interest in coordinating with the eu. in fact, he wants a weaker eu. he liked brexit. he supports the eurosceptic parties that want europe to fall apart. so the people that are invested in a strong europe first and foremost, and that want nato to be in lockstep on ukraine, they really don't like the unilateral approach. but you're right, kai is going to take some time to answer your question, because i suspect she was surprised that

ukraine came out apologizing to trump, saying they'll take the critical minerals deal and then agreeing to a 30 day cease fire that was more than biden could accomplish. i think if kamala harris were president, no one expected she was going to get zelensky to agree unilaterally through a 30 day deal. so, i mean, the reality is the europeans don't like trump. they don't trust trump. but the news coming out of riyadh yesterday was clearly a success, a step in the right direction. if your interest is to try to bring the war to an end. >> yeah, but there obviously are worries about what might happen in both the near and far term future. ian bremmer, thank you. appreciate it. still ahead, what lawyers for the trump administration and palestinian activist mahmoud khalil demanded today in court. what happened to today in court. what happened to free speech in this country? i didn't think someone like me was at risk of shingles. the rash couldn't possibly be that painful.

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louisiana. and in the meantime, they want this new york court to no longer be involved. they're asking him to essentially transfer any further proceedings to louisiana. at the same time, mr. khalil's lawyers believe that his detention in the first place is both unconstitutional and unlawful, and they're expected to file what's called a habeas petition, an amended one saying that he must be released in compliance with the constitution. >> his rights as a green card holder. >> well, it's interesting, there is a provision of the immigration and nationality act that says the secretary of state, in his sole discretion, can make a determination that an alien and that includes green card holders, pose a potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences if they either remain in the united states, if they've already been admitted or if they even come into the country. and there is some preexisting case law that says once the secretary of state makes that determination, if he makes it in writing and defends it, then a court can't look behind it to determine whether it essentially agrees with it or

thinks it's sufficiently supported. >> do they need to come up with evidence that he has advocated terrorism? i mean, they say that he's aligned with them. they're getting a face time from your kid. they say that he's aligned with hamas in the way that he was protesting israel and the war. but i haven't seen language that shows that he was promoting terrorism. a line is a very squishy word. >> it's a very squishy word. and we haven't seen that written determination from marco rubio. in all likelihood, there is a memo or a letter written by the secretary of state and signed by him, that lays out the case for why he believes that mr. khalil can be removed in compliance with this provision of the immigration and nationality act. but you're right to say, aligned by or aligned with is very different than providing material support to you. for example, that's not a standard that's necessarily operable under the law. but there's also a provision of this same immigration law that says you can't be removed for your beliefs. you can't be removed

for your statements unless the secretary of state says there's a compelling national security interest in removing you. and whether that provision is constitutional is something that's never been litigated. and i expect it might be here. >> i guess we'll see what happens and whether the trump administration can use this against others. lisa rubin, thank you very much. that's going to do it for me today. deadline. white house starts todd takes prevagen for his brain deadline. white house starts afte and this is his story. hi, i'm todd. i'm a veteran of 23 years. i served three overseas tours. i love to give back to the community. i saw a prevagen commercial and i did some research on it. i started taking prevagen about three years ago. i've told my coworkers and family, since taking prevagen, how much of a difference it's made in my life. i feel really good. prevagen. for your brain. at bombas we make the most comfortable sock in the history of feet so comfortable

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