a hard place. so you can imagine that this family now, they have been in mexico after the deportation, about a month. the mother tells me that the kids have not been able to go to school. her kids are not have not been able to get the health care they need, especially this little girl, to make sure that her recovery from cancer continues in the right track. >> nicole. the texas civil rights project says the parents did not have any criminal history once they crossed the border. >> yeah. that's what they are telling me. their lawyer, who's representing them in the organization, tells me, hey, these people, the only thing they didn't have were their documentation. >> nicole acevedo, thank you very much. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. alex witt picks up with more news right now.

>> good to be. >> with you. >> i'm alex witt. >> more threats today from the. >> white house. >> as the first waves of retaliation against president trump's escalating. >> trade war hit. >> the u.s. in fact. >> right. >> now, let's. >> check out the dow. it is down. >> not. >> surprisingly, 471 points and change there. meantime, canada imposed another round of dollar. >> for dollar. >> reciprocal tariffs. >> overnight. >> bringing the total. >> of. >> newly taxed american. goods to. $42 billion. >> and that includes. >> a 50% tax. >> on u.s. whiskey. >> the eu. >> is also. >> targeting kentucky. >> bourbon as part of its. response to trump's. >> 25% import. >> tax on foreign. steel and aluminum. mr. trump. >> is now threatening. >> a 200%. >> tariff on. european wines. >> including french champagne. >> that's if. >> the. >> eu does not. >> back off. the president. >> also insisting. >> it's his. >> right to continuously. adjust the tariffs. >> i'm not like a block that just i won't delay i have it's

called flexibility. it's not called inconsistency. it's called flexibility. and i think you want me to be flexible to. >> is. >> flexibility going to be your ongoing view. >> for sure. i'll always have flexibility, but there will be very little flexibility once we start. april 2nd is going to be a very big day for the united states of america. >> and by. >> that he means. >> april 2nd is when the. >> exemptions placed. >> on the 25% tariff on. >> canada and mexico expires. >> and when the president. >> is vowing. >> wide. >> ranging reciprocal. >> tariffs on. >> nearly every. >> u.s. trade partner. a new poll by cnn shows the president's approval ratings. >> on top. >> economic issues. >> are at. >> 44% or lower. >> a separate. >> reuters ipsos poll. >> shows 57%. >> of americans. >> say. >> the president's. economic approach is. too erratic, and. >> that. >> is unpredictability. that unpredictability that has. >> small business. >> owners hesitant about. >> their. >> own financial. >> futures. >> the agricultural community has. >> been. >> very supportive. >> of trump. but i think.

>> trump is. >> on the wrong side on this issue. >> the last. >> time we had some tariffs. that affected. >> the tins or my popcorn tins. about $2 a. >> tin. >> which of. course you. >> you know. >> have to. >> roll those prices. >> onto your customers. >> i think that's. >> the. hardest part. >> of. >> all this, is. >> that there is no. >> ability to plan. >> and our heads. >> constantly on a swivel. >> our single most. expensive part of a. >> package is aluminum. that's going to really affect not only our bottom line, but also going to affect the consumer. >> at. >> the end. >> we begin with nbc's. >> gabe gutierrez. >> joining us from quebec. >> we have nbc. >> news business and data correspondent brian. >> chung here in studio and. >> new york times trade and economics. >> reporter anna swanson. >> welcome to all of you. gabe, you. >> first here because. >> the. >> g7 is. >> meeting there while canadian. >> ministers are in washington to talk about this urgent diplomacy, to blunt this escalating trade war. >> hi there. alex. good afternoon. was certainly a lot of moving parts here. earlier today, secretary of state marco rubio meeting with the canadian

foreign minister here. we don't yet have a readout of that meeting, but the state, the stated reason, some of the stated topics that are on the agenda, of course, the war in ukraine, as well as dealing with china and the indo-pacific, but looming large across this meeting of g7 leaders and foreign ministers, is this ongoing tariff turmoil now, the trump administration repeatedly making the case that these tariffs will be beneficial for the united states in the long term, despite any short term problems with the market. they are downplaying the market downturn as of late. and just a short time ago, the treasury secretary, in an interview trying to make the point that these tariffs will come down reciprocally if other countries lower their own tariffs. but here in canada, not surprisingly, alex, people we have been speaking with don't understand why these tariffs have been imposed. it's affecting already a lot of businesses here. one town that we visited, drummondville, about 18% of the jobs there are linked

to the us. and we spoke with one employee there about these tariffs. listen to what he told us. >> we know that our. prices will go. >> up a little bit, but the real, real. >> we don't know yet what will happen exactly. >> what is this uncertainty doing to you? >> it's giving. us we are kind of. >> becoming crazy right now. >> it's going too. >> fast on the morning. >> say something on. >> the afternoon. >> say something else. our government. >> is going. >> to attack because. >> we. >> are in attack. >> we are kind of in a war. >> and it is that uncertainty that is really impacting a lot of businesses here in canada, something we hear over and over again. and, alex, we're just receiving reports that canada has initiated a complaint with the world trade organization over the steel and aluminum duties. they understand that they did that back during president trump's first term. but this all comes as canadian officials say that they will

bring this up to secretary of state marco rubio here in canada during this g7 foreign ministers meeting. and as you said, canadian officials are also heading to washington today to meet with the commerce secretary there, to, quote, lower the temperature. alex. >> yeah. >> we'll see if they can. >> all right, gabe. >> thank you for that. >> brian. >> as i. >> welcome you, give me a sense of why. >> these tariffs are. being imposed. >> on alcohol. >> what is it about this market. >> because these. >> are huge tariffs. if that 200%. >> one goes through. >> on european wines. >> and champagne. >> yeah. which could in theory make it 200% more expensive for people. >> here in. >> the united states to buy. well, i mean, that's why this is hitting a nerve, right? and i think that what really hit a nerve is that in the eu, where their major imports from of bourbon and whiskey, that tariff that they announced yesterday of 50% got trump clearly riled up. and now he has this announcement that, all right, you're going to do 50% on our alcohol. well then we're going to slap 200% on your alcohol coming into this country. but i want to point out that when it comes to imports, i

mean, this should be a no surprise to anyone, but we have france and also italy as our major importers of wine into the united states. so billions of dollars here, we're talking about collectively, almost $5 billion just from those two countries alone. so that's just for wine. so again, this is a really big deal. and i think something that is going to be part of this key negotiation as we go forward on on the tariff talks. >> yeah, absolutely. ana, 70% of americans say the. cost of trump's tariffs. it's going to come from their own pockets. >> most of. >> the new import taxes. >> affect our. allies as well. >> our friends. >> is there. >> a broader and legitimate concern. >> that. >> our deteriorating economic relations with our allies will also hit american consumers and businesses? >> yeah. >> i. >> think. there's definitely a concern. so economists have been warning about the harmful effect of trade wars. >> it's true. >> that tariffs can protect u.s. industries that they're designed to protect. but they also raise prices for consumers. they raise

prices for other businesses. and then you have the whole problem. >> of. >> counter retaliation from other countries, which damages u.s. exports. and you're seeing a lot of that this week with the united states kind of rapidly descending into these trade wars with some of our closest allies and our biggest export markets. >> so trade wars have. >> a way of kind of snowballing and the effect on businesses and consumers can only grow as time goes on, as you're seeing today. >> so let's dig into this and. >> the details. because the eu is targeting. >> tariffs on items that. it can get from outside the u.s. so it's not. too disruptive for europeans. but it sure hurts americans as we look at this list. i mean. it's a huge. >> list to go through. >> but notably. >> just off the top poultry, beef, eggs go down. >> there a little bit. >> women's and men's. >> clothing. >> i. >> mean. >> their shampoo as well. >> so how. prepared is europe to follow through on this? >> and then. how long before americans feel it? >> so european leaders have

said. >> that they will. >> follow. >> through on their retaliation. you know, they seem to be standing very firm on that. we'll see if the president's additional tariff threats. get them to back off today. but so far, you know, they've said that they would go through with this. >> and like. >> other countries, european leaders have been very specific in the products that they're targeting. they're targeting. >> american agricultural. products because. >> they know that farmers are an important voting bloc. for president trump. they're also, you know, many countries are also targeting manufactured goods in areas of. >> sort of the. upper midwest. >> or pennsylvania areas that voted for the president. >> so they're being. >> very strategic with the products that they're hitting back on to try to put pressure on the president and republican lawmakers to back off this kind of trade war. >> so. >> brian, the. >> president today. here's what he posted. >> the quote. >> reads. >> the entire world is. >> ripping us off. >> so the. question is. and there's a. >> few here. >> because it's. >> his. >> premise for this. >> entire upcoming.

>> april 2nd. >> tariffs, which. nations disproportionately. tariff american goods. >> is it the. >> entire world, as he claims? is there proof. >> of that? >> i mean, there are some nations that do have average tariff rates that might be higher than what the united states tariffs them. but i do want to point out that this is very different, not just by country but by a specific industry. so there are some countries where certain goods are not tariff at all, and there are certain goods where they are tariffs at a higher rate. i do want to point out here that this is a very relevant conversation that we're having here with regards to, okay, how much are other countries tariffing us right now? because within the context of those reciprocal tariffs that will be coming on april 2nd, the idea is that the united states would have this blanket policy where if another country tariffs american goods at x rate, then the americans will now tariff those goods coming in from those countries at the same rate. but that leads to certain questions. all right. well, if that makes the tariff rates higher for all those goods that are coming bilaterally between the countries, okay. but what if it's actually lower in another country than the tariff rate that we have here in the united states? i mean, if we

just take the example of the spirits alcohol that we were just talking about, if the united states has a 200% tariff, but the eu puts into place a 50% tariff, does a reciprocal tariff make them lower that back down to 50%? a lot of questions about the implementation of all of this, which i think is getting a little bit lost in the rhetoric through the policy by truth social post. >> okay. >> do you think that. >> 200% is. >> going to go through. >> what's your gut telling you? >> well, it's an important point to bring up because these are all threats. i mean, even the eu had acknowledged that this is a proposed tariff that could kick into effect in mid-april. but even their statement said they are open to reversing any of these potential tariff raises. if the negotiations between the united states goes, well. >> we have. >> a month. >> we have a month. and even, you know, when president trump posted on truth social, it's not that today tariff rates are going to go up by 200%. so people's wine, the prices are safe, at least for right now. but again, who knows what that looks like in a few weeks. >> i mean, you know, saint. patrick's day is coming up. i mean. >> that's usually. >> it. >> doesn't hurt. >> to maybe buy an extra bottle. okay. >> all right. >> brian chung. >> anna swanson. >> thank you. >> so much. >> and formally gabe gutierrez as well. so coming up. what senate democrats plan to do as a

government. >> shutdown draws near. >> we've got a live report. >> from capitol hill. >> in a quick 90s you're >> in a quick 90s you're watching msnbc. for more than a decade farxiga has been trusted again and again, and again. [crowd chant] far-xi-ga ask your doctor about farxiga. ♪♪ alert device. >> from. >> consumer cellular. and we're here to find out how much they're loving it. first up. nancy, wait. where's nancy? >> over here. >> let me. >> show you my garden. >> nancy. sure. enjoying her peace of mind, isn't she? >> that's because. >> the iris ally. >> is the only medical alert. >> device backed by. >> the reliable service. >> and support of. consumer cellular. oh, did i mention the iris ally? >> is shower. >> safe and rain proof? >> and jerry, show them the best part. >> watch this. >> with automatic fall detection. when you're wearing your ally and it detects a.

>> fall, you'll be connected to us based agents who can help. >> and if you'd. >> like a personal contact of your choice. >> to dad, you okay? ignore that. >> before we got the ally, the things. >> that he loved doing the most were. >> the. things that. >> scared me the most. but now we're both happy. >> the ally features gps location tracking. >> and 24. >> over seven. >> emergency response. >> service is just $25 a month. and call now. >> for your second. >> month free call 1-800-932-8832. that's 1-800-932-8832. >> this is the emirates. >> premium economy seat. the economy. >> perhaps they need to. >> call it. >> something else. >> senate democrats. >> are trying. >> to play hardball. >> ahead. >> of a potential. >> government shutdown. >> tomorrow night. senate minority leader. >> chuck schumer says democrats will not. >> be voting. >> for a stopgap. >> funding bill republicans approved. >> in the house. >> it appears. >> democrats are looking for

some type of deal or some concessions from republicans. who need their votes to avoid a shutdown. and joining us now is nbc news chief capitol. >> hill. correspondent ryan. >> nobles and. >> former top. >> communications adviser. >> to speaker. >> ryan and boehner, brendan buck. >> guys. >> thanks for joining me. so. >> ryan. >> senate republican leader john thune said. >> earlier that it. >> is time. >> for democrats. >> to fish. >> or cut bait. >> is there going to be. a deal. >> at. >> the last minute? >> alex. >> the time for deal. making is really over when it comes to. >> the prospects. >> of a government shutdown. >> republicans hold all the cards here. >> they have. already passed. >> a piece. >> of legislation that will keep the. government open. >> now they're just. >> waiting to see whether. >> or not there are eight. >> democrats that will join. >> them in that effort and. >> pass this. >> continuing resolution before the clock strikes midnight. >> on friday. >> democrats will. >> have some leverage in terms of speeding up the time frame. >> perhaps they allow. >> for some sort of an amendment. >> vote for an alternative. >> 30 day continuing resolution. >> that would allow them. >> more time to negotiate.

>> but republicans. >> are pretty. firm here. >> that they are willing. >> to call the democrats. >> bluff and. >> allow this. >> to get to the point where. >> the. >> government shuts down. >> listen to what. >> the senate. majority leader, john thune, had to say about the situation. >> it's their call. the ball's in. >> their court. >> they put out a, you. >> know, a potential. >> 30 day cr. >> and. you know. >> if they want to vote on. >> that in. >> exchange for. >> getting us. >> the. >> votes to. >> pass the to. >> september 30th, i think we're open. >> to that. so to be. >> very clear about. >> all of this, any negotiation. >> that takes. >> place right. >> now would be over a. >> show vote, the opportunity. >> for. >> democrats to vote. on something that has no. chance of passing. >> there is. >> no negotiation. >> around changing. >> the. >> fundamental legislation that. >> is currently on the board. >> and that. >> is. >> prepared to pass. in order to keep the government open. >> democrats are. >> right now. >> facing two really. >> bad choices here. >> they hate this continuing resolution. they do not believe

it is a clean. >> cr, as. >> republicans have. >> described it. >> but they are. >> also are. >> very concerned about the consequences and the impacts of a federal government shutdown. >> and they are also. >> dealing with a base. >> that desperately wants. >> them to. >> stand up to donald trump. and this. >> is one. >> of the. >> only pieces. of leverage. >> that they have at their disposal. unfortunately for. >> democrats, time. >> is running out, alex. >> and they do. >> not. appear to have a very clear path forward. >> i was just going. >> to quick ask you the cr. >> the extension. where does that stand? >> this possible amendment. >> right now? >> so right now it is not. >> a piece of. >> legislation that's being. considered the. >> only way. >> that it. >> would become something. >> that they vote on is. >> if democrats offer that up in exchange for a time agreement that would shrink the amount of time that the legislation. >> essentially has to. >> age in the senate before they vote on it. >> john thune seems. >> open to that because he knows. >> that it. >> will never pass. so it's. >> right now. >> up to democrats. but they. >> would also have. >> to agree to allowing the continuing. >> resolution to. >> be voted. >> on, with the likelihood that there are enough democrat votes

for it to pass. >> okay, brendan, to you now, will. republicans play. >> ball with. >> democrats on this, or are they just going to hope democrats take the blame if there's a shutdown? and if that happens. >> will. >> voters buy it? >> if republicans. >> are, i mean, they're in charge of virtually everything white house. >> senate, house. >> i think republicans are willing to go either way on that, because i do think democrats will get blamed. yes, they control everything. but as. >> we know. >> the senate requires. >> 60 votes. >> to do. >> most everything. >> and republicans have. >> this game was basically. >> over when. >> the. house was able. >> to put up votes with. >> just republicans. >> to get this. >> over to the senate. at that point. >> senate democrats. >> knew they had. >> yeah, i. >> just do you. >> do you really think. >> america pay such. >> close attention that they're like. >> oh, a. >> minority or. majority vote versus a 60. >> person vote? don't you think the prospect of. republicans running the white house, the senate and the house. >> would not. >> play well out in the in the greater.

>> populous if. >> the government. >> shuts down? >> no. >> alex. >> i've been through a lot. >> of government. >> shutdowns. >> actually. >> and i'm very. >> confident that. >> democrats would take the blame here. and that's why. i think republicans are. >> so laid. >> back about this. >> chuck schumer actually initiated a. >> shutdown in a similar situation. >> several years back, when he tried to insist on there being legislation for dreamers about immigration tied to a government funding bill. he triggered a shutdown. he realized after 3. >> or. >> 4 days that. >> his party. >> was getting killed over it, and he threw. >> in. >> the towel. >> i think it'll. >> be very clear. and look. whoever is resisting keeping. >> the. >> government open, which. >> in this case. >> will. >> be democrats, it. >> really will be. >> always loses. and there's no good way out of a. >> shutdown other than folding. and so they have. >> no good options. the options are. >> either get some face. >> saving amendment that. >> allows them to tell their base that they, you know, they. >> got. >> something out of it. >> or go. >> into. >> a shutdown and basically. >> just get. >> pummeled by the president and. >> republicans for. >> however long. >> you. >> want to take your pummeling until. >> it's over. that's how these

go. >> i've been through several of them. >> usually it's. >> republicans who are the one getting pummeled, but i'm very confident that the same. >> situation would happen. >> for democrats here. >> yeah. well, brandon, i. >> went through the. >> longest shutdown. >> which was 35 days. >> it was under president trump, and. >> it was. >> over the holidays in december 2018. so for republicans this time around. >> the markets. >> are getting hit from the chaos and concern around trump's tariffs. >> is there. >> more of a political risk. >> to republicans. >> now because of that factor? >> i really. >> don't think so. >> i think democrats would love to or excuse me, i think republicans would love. >> to change the subject to. >> a government shutdown. >> that again, i think they will be able to pin on on democrats. look, they're. >> in their. >> stages of grief right now. >> i think chuck schumer. >> is well. >> aware that he. >> has no good options here. they can talk. >> about medicaid. >> all they want. they can talk about social. >> security all they want. but they themselves. >> have have. >> communicated time. >> and time again. >> during these things when republicans were on the other side. of things. >> that government. >> shutdowns are. >> really destructive. >> to people's lives. they're not small things. republicans

are already circulating. >> clips of chuck schumer. >> saying those very things. >> republicans will. >> be the ones voting. >> to keep the government open. >> democrats will be the ones not. it's usually that simple. >> they can. >> point at all. >> the other things. >> they want. but right now, republicans. >> feel very. >> good where they are. and that's a rare spot. and i think credit in large part due to. >> to mike johnson. >> in the house. >> being able. >> to hold his team. together in a way that, frankly, i didn't expect. >> he was going to. >> be able to. the dynamics. >> have. >> really changed when. >> the house. >> is able to act as a majority, pass things on their own, it really boxes democrats out, takes away any leverage. >> they have. >> and i think they are just sort of grappling with that reality right now. >> okay. ryan nobles, brendan buck, guys, thank you so much for that. and joining me right now, we have democratic congressman. >> gabe. >> amo of. >> rhode island. >> who serves on the budget committee. congressman, welcome, sir. you voted against the republican funding. >> bill in. >> the house. why specifically. >> are you and your senate colleagues. >> on that side of. >> the aisle opposed to this bill? >> and how. >> much of it is. political versus practical based on what is actually in the cr? >> well, look, if you take a.

>> look at the spending. >> bill that the republicans put forward, they put forward a partizan piece of legislation that hurts. >> seniors. >> that hurts. >> families. >> that hurts veterans. >> veterans who should. be eligible. >> for benefits of the pact act. and they. >> are refusing. >> to fund those key priorities so. >> that. >> they can. >> continue to. >> drive our economy. >> into a ditch. >> let's be very clear. >> democrats are standing. >> on the side of the american people. while house. >> democrats got out of town. they're not. >> prepared to come. >> back and vote on what. >> is a reasonable, practical. >> means of getting. bipartisan support. >> for a funding bill to last through this fiscal year. >> let's take a listen to treasury secretary scott bessent. >> he was on. cnbc earlier today already. pushing the narrative. >> of blaming democrats. >> here he is. >> if senator schumer wants to. >> reject it. >> hurt the. >> american people, close. >> down the government. >> and they're going. >> to. >> own any. >> of the problems that go with

it, including economic slowdown. >> so. >> secretary, he also said. >> he's not. concerned about a little. >> market volatility. >> i'm curious. >> your response to that, congressman. >> well, look. >> they should be ashamed. >> they are. inflicting pain on the american people. through their reckless tactics on the economy. this tariff tax agenda is only hurting people who have said to us over and over again. that they. want their politicians, their elected officials, to work on. lowering the cost. >> of living. >> so it is on them. you can't have it both ways. >> to claim. this broad mandate. >> for action. >> yet need democratic votes. >> but not include us in a bipartisan process in a real way so that we can work for the american people. they are being reckless. they're driving our economy into a ditch, and they. should be held accountable. but it is important now that they show up in washington. >> to vote. >> on a four week cr so that we can get a bipartisan path forward.

>> they can do that. >>may. notant. >> to. >> check out their 401 s, though at. >> this point. but let's. >> talk about. >> what. >> the washington post. >> points out, which. >> is that a shutdown could potentially give the white house and. >> elon musk even. >> more latitude. >> in what agencies. stay open or closed down, because. >> the. >> president enjoys wide discretion on those decisions during a. >> shutdown. and that is on top. >> of all. >> the. >> other d.o.j. cuts. >> is that worth the. >> cost for democrats? >> well, look, i think merely going forward with this partizan extreme spending bill is giving donald trump and elon musk. >> a sign. >> off that. >> they can continue. >> to hack away at core functions of the government. so let's be clear. there is no good intention. that the republicans have put forward with their plan. the only path forward is for them to sit down at the negotiation table over four weeks to get a cr that keeps the government funded through the rest of the year, and reduces the pain that they have

continued to inflict on the american people. >> congressman, i want to talk. >> about the. >> massive job cuts at the. >> veteran's affairs department. what are you hearing from your constituents, veterans, specifically about the downsides. >> of. >> these cuts? >> are there going to be. >> delays in accessing health care or any other benefits? >> yeah, there continue to be questions. and concerns and really questions about our values as a country. we know those who have sacrificed so much that those veterans, their families deserve our services. and what is this trump administration doing? what are house republicans rubber stamping cuts to veterans? >> and that should. >> be unconscionable. and it saddens me that that's where we are. >> congressman gabe. >> amo of. >> rhode island, thank you, sir, for your time. >> coming up. >> could. >> thousands of fired federal. >> workers get their. jobs back? >> while a judge says. >> the mass. >> layoffs by the trump. >> administration broke the law? >> you're watching msnbc.

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>> i love days like this. i love news days like this. there's so much to show you. do you feel like you have a sense from looking at that data about what the feeling is in the country, among people who are frustrated with what's going on, is it possible to change the basic statistics we have for the u.s. economy? are we getting to the point where the law is going to start to trip up these efforts in a more wholesale way? i absolutely believe that information is power, so is getting up and doing something about it. everybody's doing their part. >> just hours. >> before a senate confirmation hearing. >> for president trump. cdc director was set to take place at the white house without explanation. >> pulled former. >> republican congressman and longtime friend. >> of rfk jr. dave weldon's nomination. >> meanwhile, the. >> trump administration and doj's. >> continue shrinking the federal workforce, firing thousands of employees across various agencies. a federal judge in maryland suggested. >> he. may grant. >> a request for those fired. >> federal workers to get their

jobs back, at least temporarily, saying, quote, this. >> case isn't. >> about whether or not the government. >> can terminate people. >> it's about. >> if they. >> decide to terminate people. how they must do it. >> joining me. >> now are nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. and new york. >> times white house. >> correspondent tyler pager. tyler is also coauthor of the upcoming book, 2024 how. >> trump retook. >> the white house and the democrats lost america. >> gentlemen. thank you. >> can you first, what. >> is the latest? >> do we know if these. >> workers are going to. >> get reinstated? >> well, so, alex, a federal judge in maryland, as you said yesterday, gave the. >> strong. >> impression that he was going to order the trump. >> administration to bring. >> back thousands of these. >> fired workers. >> and these are people in their. probationary periods. and he suggested that essentially, the rules were not followed in how they were let go. and at one point, this judge invoked the famous silicon valley slogan, move fast and break things. and he suggested that was not a great way to approach the question of how to fire people from. >> the. federal government.

>> move fast. fine, he said. break things. if that involves breaking the law, then that becomes problematic. >> and under. >> questioning from the judge, the department of justice lawyer was not able to say how many employees have been terminated by the government. and he also said he was not sure if anyone else in the government knew the answer to that question. alex. >> okay. >> so, ken, lots of legal challenges. >> out there. >> i'm curious how this all might play out. >> i understand there's. something breaking. >> in california as well. you mentioned the maryland judge. >> yeah, that's right. this is just over our email. >> from gary. >> grumbach, our colleague, a federal judge in the northern district of california, has ordered the reinstatement of thousands of employees from the department of veterans affairs, the department of defense and energy. and again, these were probationary employees. this had to do with a memo that opm, the office of personnel management, issued ordering the firings of these probationary employees. and this judge has ruled that that was illegal. as you said, there are dozens of these cases around the country, each of them making slightly different

arguments about this question of how government employees can be fired. in these cases. we're talking about probationary employees. regular old civil servants have recourse against being fired as well. but in a lot of cases, they have to go to this thing called the merit systems. protection board. so it's a longer process for them. but i think we the bottom line here, alex, is we have not heard the end of these firings. this is going to be in litigation for perhaps years. it's going to cost the government maybe billions of dollars to litigate these cases, and it's not going to be resolved anytime soon. >> you said. billions of dollars. >> that's absolutely. these are massive dozens and dozens of lawsuits across the country. doj lawyers. >> have to. >> go. into court, many people working behind the scenes. it's an expensive process. >> so. >> tyler. >> this news from the judge. >> in california, how is that. >> going to be received in the white house? >> yeah. look, we've seen. that the white house has not been thrilled, to put it lightly, about some of these judge rulings against the trump administration's actions. we've seen a concerted effort, not just from the white house, but.

from some of their top allies, elon musk and others targeting these judges, saying that they do not have the power to rule on decisions made by the federal government. we've seen, you know, is the state's attorney. generals have been trying to target districts that they think they could get more favorable rulings. we saw the trump administration or trump allies do the same thing when the bide, when biden was in office trying to challenge some of the, the, the laws and efforts that he was putting in place. so it's clear that the strategy is being used by both democrats and republicans. and we've seen the white house respond in very aggressive ways, criticizing these judges and their rulings and even trying to gin up some support among their base about trying to impeach some of these judges. so this is just going to be the latest in, in a, in an attempt that the white house is going to make to cast these judges as, as ruling beyond their remit. >> tyler. nbc's kelly o'donnell

asked the president about the new cuts to the department of education yesterday, and he defended the firing of federal workers by saying this. listen up. >> i feel very badly. and but many of them don't work at all. many of them never showed up to work. >> hang on. is that even true? that many of them never showed up to work? i mean, where's the proof of that? how fair of an assessment is that? >> yeah, there has not you know, trump has made this claim repeatedly before about other government agencies without providing any proof to back that up. we saw him talk about this, use the same sort of line around the controversy when elon musk's team sent out that email to all federal employees, asking them five things they did over the past week. part of that, trump said, was an effort to prove that people were receiving government salaries, but not actually showing up to work. so this is clearly a fixation of the president, and he's been repeating it in different

scenarios as it relates to this effort. elon musk is running to, you know, slash and burn across the federal bureaucracy. but we have not seen any evidence to support those claims that the president has made. >> tyler, do you know why the white house pulled dave weldon's nomination just today or maybe last night? officially, the former congressman, much like health secretary rfk jr. he's a vaccine skeptic, particularly of the measles vaccine. do you think they thought that he wouldn't get the votes? and do you think the growing measles outbreak in texas and new mexico and several other states played into the decision? >> yeah, my colleague spoke with him this morning, and that is what he relayed to them, saying that he received a call last night from the white house being told that they did not believe he had the votes to be confirmed. obviously, this is a significant position for the trump administration, the cdc, as an agency that they have long targeted and criticized as it relates to the handling of the

covid 19 virus and pandemic. and this is, you know, one of the significant things about this, alex, is that this is the first nominee that has gotten this far in the process to be withdrawn. obviously, matt gaetz, trump's first pick for attorney general, was, you know, he announced his nomination. but before he really progressed, withdrew from that, this man was going to have a hearing today. the senate had that scheduled and they just pulled back. obviously, we'll learn more in the coming hours and days about exactly what was going on behind the scenes, but at least his understanding, based on what he told my colleagues, is that he was told by the white house that he did not have the votes for confirmation. >> yeah. and it was my understanding from reporting that he intended to go to the hill anyway, this this morning. and they said nope. okay, tyler. ken, gentlemen, thanks so much. up next, what the kremlin is saying about a cease fire proposal with ukraine as the u.s. continues its push for peace, peace talks. you're peace, peace talks. you're watching here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday.

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>> 40 pass with some breaking news right here in new york, just a few blocks north of our studios here, hundreds of protesters are packed inside of trump tower, all in support of columbia graduate student mahmoud khalil. he is the green card holder who helped lead pro-palestinian protests, and he has been detained by ice as of this weekend. the group behind today's sit in jewish voice for peace is demanding the trump administration release khalil from ice detention. he's in

louisiana. the group's livestream shows the nypd is there. they are starting to zip tie some protesters. we'll keep you updated on this as we get more information. meantime. meantime, right now, president trump is meeting with the nato secretary general where the war in ukraine is, of course, top on the agenda. and just moments ago, russian president vladimir putin said that moscow supports the us proposal to temporarily stop the fighting in ukraine in principle, but said the root causes of the conflict would have to be addressed and russia would have to talk to washington about those details. joining me now from ukraine is nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel and former cia officer marc polymeropoulos. he is a nonresident senior fellow at the atlantic council. richard, you first here. how do you think ukraine is going to interpret what putin said today? >> well, president zelensky has already said that by not accepting the proposal for a 30

day ceasefire unconditionally, vladimir putin is showing that he wants to extend the war. and there was just this lengthy press conference, more briefing than press conference. they took fairly controlled questions from a friendly press corps. both president putin and alexander lukashenko, the president of belarus, described a program where there is more work for russian troops to do. president putin said that yes, he first of all, he thanked president trump and said yes in principle. he supports the idea of ending this conflict diplomatically, and he supports the idea of a ceasefire. but and then he added several conditions. he said, what about the current ongoing offensive that russia is carrying out in kursk? he says, does russia have to stop that? that's an unanswered question. what about russia's offensive, where he claimed russian troops are making progress all along the front lines in ukraine? in the south, where i am in the

east, he said, that would need to be studied. who would would monitor the ceasefire? who gets to declare violations? is there an international body set up to that? he said that would need clarifications. he said perhaps a phone call between himself, president putin and president trump could help. he listed a half dozen or more different caveats that he described as, quote, nuances. so he sort of gave lip service to accepting it, but then gave several reasons why russia at this stage can't accept it but wants to know more. >> okay. hang on, richard, the word ceasefire, everybody knows what that means. so why would vladimir putin come back and say, yeah, but what what has to be done about the offensive in kursk? we're making advances here and other places along the front line. so does it apply to that that does that make sense? >> so the ceasefire, as president trump has described it. and as secretary of state marco rubio described it, i

think you could say that president putin effectively rejected that. secretary of state mark. marco rubio said that the whole point is you stop the guns immediately, and then you sit down to answer all of these long term questions like nato membership, like security guarantees, like the border, like a potential territorial territory concessions, all of the difficult questions. and what president putin was saying is he wants those answers first, or at least wants more clarification about those answers. and he wants to know more detail about the way that a ceasefire would be handled for 30 days. so, yes, the formulation that president trump and, and secretary of state rubio were outlining stop the shooting. then we'll discuss all of these issues. president putin, while saying he supports the idea, is wants to do it clearly the other way around wants to know first, wants to keep fighting, wants to keep pushing ahead with russia's

offensive, where he says russian troops are making advantage gains before agreeing unconditionally to any kind of ceasefire. >> possibly to get more territory. okay. richard engel, thank you so much for that. mark to you, then, i'm curious the kind of leverage that president trump would have to get putin to the negotiating table, given what this stance clearly is as of today and most recently, secretary of state marco rubio saying the ball is in russia's court now. >> well, alex, i think, you know, richard is exactly right. this was a rejection of the u.s. cease fire proposal. let's just be very clear on that. i mean, this was the russian playbook, as clear as it can be, sort of accepting with a lot of conditions. and ultimately all the war aims of russia kind of keep going. and so your question is, is 100% true that the, the, the ball now is in trump's court? so what does the united states have in terms of leverage? now, president trump has talked about some type of

kind of armageddon like sanctions, as has, frankly, senator graham, he was going to introduce legislation on that. i'm not entirely sure how this is going to push russia, because the russians really only, you know, will respond to one thing, and that's force. i mean, if the us is going to be serious, the answer is they will increase, not just return to the same levels of military aid, which apparently has happened, but increased military aid to ukraine. so this notion of increased sanctions. yeah, i'm not that impressed by that. but let's see what what the administration comes back with, which actually, you know, is frankly, a rejection by russia of the cease fire proposal. >> okay. well, it sounds like both you and richard have clarified that for us. thank you so much. mark polymeropoulos. what's with me? sorry about that. meantime, up next, the department of education facing deep cuts as the trump administration works to eliminate the agency. we'll talk to the head of one of the nation's largest teachers unions about what it means for the most vulnerable students. you're watching msnbc.

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khalil, who is detained in louisiana. he is in the custody of ice. we'll keep following this. meanwhile, today, 21 democratic attorneys general sued the trump administration to stop the dismantling of the department of education. and it comes after 1300 doe workers were laid off this week. president trump says he's slashing the department so states can be in charge. but states already control their local school systems and they allocate funding and they decide the curriculum. the federal education department is responsible for managing financial aid, grants and student debt. it also provides funding, sending billions of dollars to public schools for disabled and low income students. joining us now is randi weingarten, president of the american federation of teachers. randi, welcome. so give me a sense in practical terms, how do these layoffs and the cuts impact public schools and students across the country? who feels the impact the most? so it will be a. >> rolling impact, alex, and

thank you for having me. you know, the impact in terms of the money will be felt at the beginning of next school year. it might be felt at the end of the year, but it will be felt at the beginning of next school year. i'll get back to that in a second. but the immediate impact, because this is an evisceration of the department, not cuts for efficiency or waste, this is an evisceration and look and i say this to all of my colleagues, we have to make bureaucracies work better. so we should all be welcoming anything that we can do to make things more efficient. but what this does immediately is all those parents who are filing financial aid for their kids to go to college. that is virtually impossible to do right now. if you have a question, that department is now gone. the second is all those people who are fighting for student debt. that department is now gone. the third is there's about $100 billion that go to kids in

schools all across america. basically one out of every $9. so smaller class size summer programs, after school programs, occupational therapists, physical therapists, all of that for kids with disabilities. all that is now on the chopping block because there's nobody who's going to be administering those programs. >> that's sobering. so the new secretary of the education department, linda mcmahon, was on fox news tuesday talking about the new cuts. let's play a little of what she said. here it is. >> we wanted to make sure that we kept all of the right people and the good people to make sure that the outward facing programs, the grants, the appropriations that come from congress, all of that are being met, and none of that's going to fall through the cracks. >> how is the department supposed to protect those things, like grants that would extend to financial aid, when half their workforce is gone? >> look, i don't know. she's only been on the job for five

days. i and i think she's well-meaning enough, but you can't basically cut half the people that work on these things and expect that you're going to have the grants go to, to schools directly. so it is a it is basically death by 2000 cuts. >> that is so painful. i only have about 10s. what's your top concern right now? is it this financial aid? >> my top concern is that this is going to really hurt kids period. >> who sobering as well. randi weingarten, thank you so much. appreciate that. that does it for me. thanks for watching everyone. i'm alex witt chris jansing reports is next right jansing reports is next right after a here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

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