♪ the heart is e glue ♪ s's up to thehe stony gound welelcomeo "momorning joe"ed what a beautiful, b beautil shot. >> joe, why ishe colorr that way? >> ououtsidef manhattan t there are some cities t that viewhe sun. the c cloud cover is a sre called the sun and i manhatatta

we don't usuallyy see that. let's go b back to the other sh, t.j., and i w want t showou th shot. do you k know whathat is, mike barnicle? real america. >> that's it. >> andndhank god. isn't itit great to be in r real america? >> it's sometng. > and can say that neew yorks real america beuse mika is t here >> i kknow. we're nott tlking the elites today. she's in the soututh of france. shtook her jet. she wiwill cme back telling us that that's real americaca, too. susie welchhs here.. susie. > llo, hello. >> bestst-sellingauthor -- >> to anonother best-s-selling auth. >> you tranormed mike barnicicle's fe. >> have. fixed it up,mike? >> i'm doing my tenen-minute gment right her wewe've go a lot to talk about today. ththe news and monica novotny w i guess somehow she e wasable t make i it here instead of hangi out with joeoe kernan.

"the walall streetournal," mike barnicle, has a sty -- hey, t.j.? rn the drums off. i know it's the ws. wh's wrong with you, t.j we've go a big announcement t to ma make. i'm going to t talk abouthe cia and d then wlie geist's new ba. >> the "w." thee "w." >> g george w.eist. george williamam get was b born yeyesterdaat what time? >> 1:335. >> induced. willieie aed the doctors. he h a dririnking date w with h buddies s so they asked to indu in early afternoon. george lliam geist wasas born yesterday at :35. and after a littlele t of back and fortthey deded to go with georgee wliam geieist. origininally it s george michael geist and the wife said d no. but that's grt news.. so exciting the second c child f the geist house.

>> a winner o two counts i meaean, the "w"w"t was b born 1:35esterday and becausee willllie insisted thathe bee induced, he was s able to get t the memets game st night to see may ramirez. >> go for him. >> somody had to be there. >> willilie isis '50s dad. he had a baby, grt. i'll see youut graduaon. and "he wall street journalal," we'll talk about the cia story it looks l like the mocrats are walkininto it again. th're coming out, they ha a letter frorom panenetta, all on day, coincidentally, t the apprpropriatio bill is up. >>nd on the day the president of the uned states insts that the number of membs of congre here who are privy toto thee intel reports not be expanded thehe way the defensmot want. wants it to remain ththe way it has been foror years. yeah, double l loser f the

democrats. it lookeded so polilitical on tr partrt. >> it does. does. and crazy lawrencee'donnell wille here later on today and, t.j., , if y can make sure every time h he wves his arms and say e cia iss liars, ththey're liai, ifif you can put registered d democrat at the bobottom of e screen. that's what they don't understand. they keep runnining aund trying to proven the ciaia is a bunch lawyerers. >> this is thehe kind of story that makes peoeople ha washington, , the infigighting between the cia and this whatat makes people sai don't get it. i don't want anythining to d doh it. >> first, here i monica novoy. monica, so great to s you. >> it's greaeat to be w with yo. >> reporter: rigight no presidet ama at the g-8 summmmit i itatay working with fellolow leaderto confrontnt probls facing nations arnd the globe. at t top of the agenda, climate change andhe world economy. just a moment we'e'll be talking to nbc chief whitite hos correspondndent chuctodd. chk is live i in rome.

meantime, you hear joe start to talk aboutut i already. capitohill rumbliling thi morning following a clm by some house d democrats the cia s deceived conongress r years, th say. according g to seval democrats on t house intelligence e committee, cia directotor leon panetta said in closesed door testimony y his agen has concncealed, qte, significant acons from congressss repe repeatedly since 2001. thcia responded by sayining, quote, it is n not the picy or practice of the cia a to misle congressss. authorits are blaming n north korea for a a cyber atck this week. web expererts believe the progm may be set to releasee aother virus ts eveningin primarilyly bas, major portals and government offis including t white house. the u.u.s.s suspenending $16 millioionn a aid to honduras following last mont's military coup. ousted psident zelayas hahanding por back to him within 24 hou.

nashville auththoritie confnfir steve m mcnair and hisis girlfr died in a murder/suicicide, sayi she s shot mcir in her sleep before turning the gun on herself.f. a new pollhows presesident obobama's proval rating is slippiping to newlow, 56%, do from a high of66% ininjanuary and 61% last momonth. pollsterers say a source of t t shif appearto be independent votersrs. they're respondiding to replican complalaints oexcessive spending d government control.. and over toto todd s santos for check on theatest forecacast. very good morni to you and a big congrats too t geist family i love to ar about the latest edition. fofor the st part good news. we have a greatt shot at the bebeginning the show of somem sunsnshine shong up over neew yorkrk. the sameme story en back to the west overr near buffalo. talking about t a few ol spots as far atemperatures are ncerned. beyoyond tharelatively settled across much of the arerea for tomorrow we're tking about widespre sunshine across the

area. day at least d dry from boston acrossss the 90 back to b buff and newew york ci coming in d as wel agagain, witat least a few cloudsds out therere. for r the mo part setettled acro the rthern portion of the 95 cocorridor. d.c. lookg good with 82 degreeees. the onlnly ise as far as airlie delays on yourur boston and m m even providence t low c cloud ceiling. a a remnanof this systemhat was there yesrday. again, now we're srting to clear out. some really stng thunderstotorms in and a around masssachusts. you cacan see prettyy good shot there e coming in. chopper 4 out o of new york,k, can s see t the cloud deckverew rk, maybe a patchof drizzzzle but a day if you don feel likee caying your umbrella, shouldn't be a an sue. more cleing taking placace during the daytime and again as i mentioned we'r tking sunshine e especiay into tomorrow. a rally nice setutup. joe, sunine on the way. >> all right, todd, thanank youo much. we appreciatate it. to c chuck todd r right n in re. chuck, we want t to talk about domestic polls inn a litittle bt

but firstt obviouslyly the whit house wi behaving that. first, tell usus what's happeni in italy with the predent today. > reporte well, today he's got -- t this is wheree thehe s wher i think why youu werere s of eye rolling t the summit coup days ago soo the g-8 but it's the g-8 pl fi, plus one, s sowhat does thhat meaean? it means ty invited fifive oth counies and then they invited onother country. they can't c call thee g-8 plu fifive so th want to calll it te g-8 plus five plus one. the fivethers are t the otherer global economicc powershat araren't a pt of the 8 and then somehowgypt was invid, totoo, so ey get t to be this little plus one. the big cououple of headline o of here the u.s. feels pretty good aboutt t stern words ty gogot to g the g-8 to write about iran. 's about the sametrength of verbage ththat was used when th

foren nisters got t together bubut sentially itsets a septemberr deline f for iran to either start havaving sme diplomat conversations with the u.s. and others. the nuclear issueue or theyl maybe wrwrite anotr letter. i sayy thatut at l least there s a deadline oforts that wl foforce the hand o of possibly russia to sign on to somethingna littlele harder on iran if theye t going to play along g and then the climatehange thing is inresting in this respecect. fofor years rope loved to beat up on ameca sayingg th weret doing enough on climate change. we, the u u.s. has signed on to tougher prerestrictctions and n it's china anand india at are dodoing it. they'r afraid of signg on to somethining toughe because it mightt hurt their mufacturing econom base. for ce the worlrld environmentatal folks e going to be angry at sebody else other an the u.s. >> oy. great.

so lett's talkk aboutomestic popolls. we had newss that prident obama's numbmbers do in the gallup polls to 56. we showed ohio numbers yeyesterda it's important to statate histororicallynytime gallup considers ababout 55 you're stil in the heymoon phase. so thiis not -- ople's hair is not on firere over at the wte house butt the o obviously is aa trd. the trtrend's obvisly c connecd to excessive g governmen spendig andlso jobless rarates. how is the w white hse planning on handling this moving forward? >> repter: well, i thinknkhey are concned. itit's intesting this gallup number now matches what our nuer, e, the nbcwall strereet journ" poll had twoo weeks ago andd it was the e sam issue. the movent of inependents. ii thinkk th know that that is the ise on the economy. it is interesting all l ofhis -- you know, yove heard th exession while rome is burning. wewell, it sms like whilee the presidentt i here in roe, he'e

seeingng problem domesticly and while he's away it's asf thing is going exaxactly rit whwhether 's on health re, whher it's this argumument oer the imulus, and now this crazazy backck andorth between thehe ci and congress over inteigence. >> can i ask y you about thaat? >> repororter: iave a feeling the white hohouse wish -- joe, i thk the whi house wishes the prident were back in the states now r rather an having to wrap uthis trip for another r three days. >> i sure they do. and since you're obviously nbc's polilitical director,r, take us inside the whiteouse us at the whihite house wee were jt talking g earlier is morning this c issue is somethining. nancy pelosi's n numbers droppe fromom the 50s to the 3 and the presiden wanted to move away fromom it as quickly as possibl. it now loo withhis issue that's comingut and t the back and forth betwn democrats a and

the c cia and the 2004 ig's ret we're hearingg is going to be releleased in e next coupuple o wreaks, , this whi house may be wadiding int it again. this obviouy is an issue theyy would want to gogoaway, isn't i? >>t hasn't helpednybody as this has been talkeded about.t. that said, lo, democrats ued ththese intelelligence briefing back in '02 andnd '03 duringng the -- afafter the criticism started ovover the iraq war to beat u on thentelligence community. and so i think t that one ha they feel c compellethat you've got to hol these folks accountable.e. if there is informatation out there, get i itut ththere. try to set a bett policy so that therere is better e change of information.n. polilitically u're right. this i one of those things where the average pers is gointo sit the and say what's going o soso congresis lying to t the c or the cia is lying to cgress

d they're probably aptto lieve that both parties here aren't -- are d doing nothing b trying tplay polics. at theame time having it out ininublic is not helpful because we know that that can n be a morale issue th on the ground folks s at the c. no doubtbt about i >> it's justst sometng as you said, joe, theyey don't want it. this is s a fight they'd rher have i in the back room not othe front papages. >> exactly. just lea it alone or atat least tatake it out of the ppress. thankschuck. grgreatly preciate it. we'll lk to you soon. kay kay is here. this is huge. >>morning, j. >> g good morng. hohow are yo doing, katty? >> go. > i want to go bk talkingng about the c and the back and forth, chuck todd said t that nody won, katttty, the last time the cia an nancy pelosi hadad te backck and forth. thtruth is actuay if you look at the llup pollsls, e

cia won. >>eah, i thinknk th cicia won. >> becauause they askskho do yo trust moreon inrrogation issues, the cia orancy pelosi, nancy pelosi was in the low 30s. the cia in the mid-50s.s. nancy's numbers s slipped about0 percentagepoints. i'i'm justaying pu, raw popolitics americans,s, they dot want to know whathe cia is duringnd they suras hell dot want ngress debating it on the fron pages. aren't there dangersrs for democratats wadin back intoto t rass? >> i w was sprised that the democrats havingng oked atat wh happeneded to ncy pelolosi afte thathole fight and her approval tings. why y would they wantnt to revi in a very simar way? it just seemss bizarre politi and especiallyly, i think, the broader point t ishat youere saying tt amerericans don't --- it's n not theyy don't want totw what the cia didid durinthat peririod, theyant to forget that ole period. there's very ttle revisiting of that periodround the

beginning of the iraq war generalllly, whahappened in aba ghraib and bagram. people d don'tant to know a abo it. the whe house and obama is probably shrewd the e way he sd he was g going to lease the phphotogras and didn't. he pked up on thehe blic moood. thisis is not a fht that americans want to hahave again. th don't want to gogoack to that perd. they donon't like that period particularly. th don't w want to know whwhat people were e doing inhe dark cecells arou the world and in re political terms whehether it's right or r wrong anwhether we s should ve an inveigation into thi is a differerent question. >> i not talking morality, i'm talking pupure polics and, you knowwe don't see a lot of f documents in america a about hiroshima, t the afterfects. oror what we did to dresden inie final stes of the war. the cicivilians killed there. when we go war, americans sayy take careof it. i'm going t toraise m my family. we'll cln it up later but

at's why, again, the po politics -- - >> looks like politicscs as usl to the o outside wld. they l look at ts and say ke this to yoyourself it's the o old beltw stuff. ththey don'tant to know what the cia is doing. amamericans y give them a break in tes of war, let the ci do s thing. >> i have t-ten-ten apapproach >> let's h hear it. >> this may y feel gooto nancy pelosi's allies f for teten min. in ten months it doest help and in ten years it just feeds in -- how about te minutetes? >> actualllly 12 mines. anand i'm not saying the republblicans di't -- does nancy pelosi have allilies? does she stillll. >> thehere is a bigger issue. th bigger problblem foror t democrats,s, just ke with republics, when we put very coervative people from very conservativeistricts andnd leadship t they pulled us further right

now nancy pelosi has to talk to peoplele sayinwhat the hell are you doing? the cia abusedprisoners, viololated t constitution. do sething, nancy. and you drag the party with yo. see, she's's great. she's not talkin >> you're not the boss, e. > you nd to understanand th, ka katty. >> i know who is the b boss arnd this shohow. chris is the boss. so anyway, i wawas walkiking dn broadway last t night. > we havave a big show this morning. secretarof homeland secuty janet naapolitanoill be along with secretary sebelelius. nancyy pelo's friend who signed on t that letttter regardining n panetta. congressn hry axman says gop leads are rootg against th country..

the formrmer chief of staff for president clinn, mack mclarty. a look at the t top stories politico iss rking on from th supernova of washington, d.c.c. i speak, of coursese, of mik allen. you must be looking r motorcycle insurae. you'u're good. than. . so i our bike insuranance. all the coverage youou nd at a great price. holdn, cowboy. cool. i'm nodo -- for less than a dollar a month, yoyou also g g 24/7 roadside assisise. ght on. ah, vroom-vroom! sounds likyoran a 500.

more l like a 900 v-twin. excuse me. well, you're excused ththright surance for yo ride. w, at's progressive. call or click today.y. sure, but do wee speak hybrid? es, we do. and we can say 70000 miles on a single e tan and epa estimamated 41 mpg city d d althe words stick ecause they're true. wepeak the most fu-e-eicient midsize sedan iamamica. we speak the all-newew 10 ford fusion hybrid.d. t in... and d drivonon rrd d oue speak the all-newew 10 ford fusion hybrid.d. naing onon ud r. weotototatatininci on us cars for everybody

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a al franken is proud t toa nally become mneneta's juniniorenenor. however, due to o e e unlenting media a sctiti, senator franken s decided to resign and go fishing in alaskaka al franken, be erere. >> savee lot of money for th state. lolookt this shot. mika, if you're tching in t the soh of francece,ououeissing hehere is that nonot a gorgeous city? >> beautifulul. >> we're gngng up the est side think orowown the east de.

>> up.. >> andndowow we're going upp ine cldsds all right.t. d speaking i in the clclou,, rere'sike llen, the chieief politicacal rrrresndent for politico. mike, you wewereee wiith the morning "mplaybook" and all of s couldn't be more e exceded. i guy goosebebpsps ithe word thatat bt t defines thee f feinn this set. you've got -- and t thiisis excitingngtotoo, a cntnton meback. >> thihis j jt for you, joe. i k kw it was y you and so i i wiwithhis. >> grgratat is i it girlfriend o o bibill nno, this is secretary clclinn. >> my girlfriend. gogo ahead. >> exactly. and she'ss been often thehe rada bibit. one of theig surpriseses i i thk you'll agree of this miminiration is that she hasas not been a constanttory which i think w weould have expected bubut the nexteeeek or so wrere going g to see a l lot more o o. she's going to b doing a very high-profile s spehh next week o thcouncil on foreign relatioions here in d.c. abobout nonproliferationonriringg in iran, rth korea, then sss

gogointoto btravelingo asia and inindi where those t spotss will be sortt of the center o o ththe agenda a anthth she'll be ndnducng the strategic and economic dialogue on c chi w wh secretarary gthner so after ing the fog around foggy bobott w're going to o seng a whole bunch of herin the n nxt we. . >> that sounundsikike exciting july. how are yoyohahangg out with tim geithner? hoababouthe house o of blues? health carereform n not going esespealallyell right now in wawaington. > is s not, e.e. i i lo y yr point that the prprididenprobably w wiss he's here.. that's a great poiointo o trto signal to u us that theyyststil ntnt t get ththes health care bibilldone pfththeugust break which wooul give them a a praye gettingng tmm unified anan ssss and signed in th fall. both hususes are tellingss that they could go a coupuple moreas toto tir breaks in order too get this ne. the hohouswawa s supsed to be dodone at the end o of jully. the senate wasas already g gingt be h her another wewee

theyaid that cocoul slip aewew days bubu joe,hihis just like oneef the troubleiigns for e administration. yoguys were on it yteteay. you'rere aayays ahead of ththee cucurv this weekend i i tnknk the pape e e ing to bellll aboutt these different t sis s inuding all these polls that you weree talking abouout yeststeryy show dependents moving away from is president. this is a very alming trend for him. >> we've seen itout on -when were out s spkiki to people over the past mthth or so and we wewe shocked b by how mny indepependtstsnd democrats were coming up toto and theyeere alalalking about the meme thing, the deficit. of course my book i is about defifitsts a t the ke so many opopleoncerned about exploding deficits andhehe general feeling at government'setting too g.g. what's so fascininatgg is and sometimes politicic symbolism. for some r rasason americans ha wrappeped eieir ms around t ts idea that washington hasaken over dettro.. you look at spending, comompa

the bailoutsf w wa s seet and aig g dedetrt.t. itit's nohing. bufor some reasonn this i is th one bailout thatt really sets america. i n't understand it seself >> jacac d i have w wrienen a lt of columns about politics in washington. enever we write anytytngng criticicalf f e president, we get slews of e e-mls and tweets sayiyingouou'r republicans, h h cocoulyoyou criticizee t president? lalasteeeewe wrote a column in "businineseeee saying not soso st. the dicics have to beeealt with. you'u're taking o ove dettitit. it's m movg g o fast. i said to ja, we're goining to get killed. wewe g a all positive response.. allososite spspon. >> uknow, mike, beforeee go reallyquickly, thetoto that nobody's written, and iope memedy will start writing g th story, is the ct that wee got the first part ofof the story whichis t whihiteouou h a rosysy snanarifor the economy,

where it was going. body has really connececte the dots to that 4% grgrthth ty projected fofor xtxtear for the plplose growth over the nextxt ten years. wewe kww wt the deficits are ojojecng using a rosy scenario. now we fnd that out, $0 billion deefitsts bome $30 billion decicits >> yes. >> and nobody is writing abt it. >> andnd people already didn'n' like the p proctions we have. you're gght it's'so o mu worse. you change the fwroet numbers. everything changege a an poponeial rate. >> a andhaha it anans for america'a'sconomy isis horrific. aiain,'m wonderingg w whe those stories are. hopefully y 'l'll ve a lomomo writing about it. the bbc could report onit. hey, she talalke after you said we'v've tto go. i broroke her. one block ddhe's bkeken. >> she cannot esist. ee cannot reisis >> i i' bn told oo t bo is.. sorry, chrisis, w was trying.g. i was trying t to listen to yo the e lyly tng i would says that thehe i i little jejeive

rerting yet on etetr the ststululusill start pickingup again. whether we will startteeing some results from is. it b bee whaat, four months? e administratatio always says that thisis is back loaded, th ememplment is the lacking indicator and we could s see things turn ararou s sti. itit n notlooking greatatat t moment but w we ouou hold on. >>owow cis is yelling at me and i've said on this shshow actually that t yorere n going to see resultsfrfr the stimulus plan for 18 months. >>his is goingo take timime and it's going t get worse. >> i'm'm n talkingbbou economic r reatyty >> cchr,,'m not listening to o you. >>hey have all of t tss exexplining en health care is coming up. and some bigigge iisss.s. mike, , anankso much. 'll see you morrow. keke barnicle, take u u through ththe papers really quickly. >> during your terview with mike alaln,n, you have a bookok? i do b i don'n'like to talk about t.t. it's l low ke t's take a look at the morning papepers "t wall street journal," thehe front page, cyber blitzz tsts

s.s.orea. can'n't o on ur computer i in eierer country. "the new yorork memes,to ththrr frt t ge. cities, andhhiss what weweerer talking aboutut l lo out onoad fufunds fr stimulus. mu ofof moneylolows to rural eaea that's notot gdd for b bities lili new york, bbosn, washington, , fiththe roads, those poththol.. out t the e in kekentky. he washington post," p pole e fill thetrtrts i western china to stopop ethnic violence there. that's a a b story. t thareally is. > > ancoming up a first lo at busisissss fm london andndth mu-read opinion pages straigight ahead on "morning joe" as wee ty to brbrea katty kayay'sisisciind habitsts we'vma a great product even bter. now every drop of sllasolines... at seeks and destroys engine gunk... left by lor-r-qualy gasoline. t protects engines frrom performance-robbing gunk. try y w nitren-enriched shell galines.

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rarely sexll side effects, swellingng or erness of thbrbreas can occur. onlyour health care ider can tell if symptptoms from an enlnlarged prtate and not a re serious condition like ostate cancer. so have regular exams. call yououdoctoroday. avodart. help take c car of your growing probobmm it is jus after 6:30 he eaea cst. timeme for quick looktt some of totoday'toto stories.s. leaders of the world's ricstst tions and major developingng powers are meetingnginin italy today to seekekcocomm grounund globalal warming andnd interernl tre. prprididenobama will chaiair climate discussions b but bitious goals haveve fadeddafafr demands were rejected too mucuc the ememisons of greenhouse gasesyy 2050. >>california firefighters sayay they'll sosoonavettubrn brushfirendnder ntrol. ouou2,000 empmploeses a visitors were evacuated fromhehe mauseum as heavy wdsds begann to blow smokee onto thehe meum

grouous.s. and nasa has begegun athth countdowown r r thspace shutttt "e"endeaurur" but o oe e agn ormyweweatr could stall t launch. aa hydydgegenas leak ss since en repaired. joe?e? over to y. >> thahank y s smuch,nica. wewe greatly appreciaiateit. shshe did well, didndn s she >> you're gigivinge e hard time. yorere sll giving m me a hard time after that whole e "mnining joe" thingng >> she's going to o see rnrn. >> a acrs theririve >> no, no, no. e joe at a time. no kernan ododay t tha god foryou. thanks so much. > let's getan early checkck n onususess from cnbc's jefgeoff tmore live frrom londodon. whatatss going n? >epeporr: hey, good morornin to you. datt t th front w wll be kekeepg a closeeyeye out for th weeklyly j jbless claimsnumber.. that's alwlways tetesting especially sincecemm now saying they're gogogg to sharerobably 000 white collar jobs. th's'sanother move onththe restruructiningstory.

june chain oror sales alsoo ou day, and thers s feelgood frfromalalco they madadaa loss but iwawa bebett than the market expececte watchhutut forheheon t trangng p daday-toayay we are higighe i in the equity trade this hour. baba to you guys. >> geoff, thank you u m muc americans s saylulumim differeneny y fr the british. well, we saytt right. >>hahat ems so muchh rder an aluminum. >> we started it. we got there fst. > how do youou sa you-all? ththat so much easier. she's speechlessss you-all. > yll. >> a britney spepearsthing. hey,y, y'all. up next a guyfrfrom the s sututw doesn't say y'y'al mika's ust-read opinionn pages, we will get her onnhe beaches ofouth ofrrce to read it.

my c cicice would be to hava good bibi w witbipartisan suorort. we can onlyy c conol that so chch it appearsrs t republican parar leadership in theheongress has made a a decision t tha they wa to try to denyy esesent obama

success, w whi means, inn my mind, they're rooting against thecountry as well. >>ith us ww msnbc lilitil analyst and chairmrman of the democratic adership council, harold ford jr. is it your posititn n th republicans s arroroing against ererics? >> no. i understand what chairmrman waxman is saying, butut - > hssoing to be onn our show, by the way. >> i t thkk you can somemememes decrcrs and repepubcacansand you rerembmberthis, youet so ugughtp in th back andd forth in congress. >> we did. >> y yu can forget. we didn't. we were the exception, o of course. weweere transcendentndnd you can forget peoplpl are watching isis and listeneninanan taking your word. >> i've always s see you as a trananscdedentigure. >> a i thoughtht t same about yoyo it was mutual. >>e know. all right.t. thank you fofor your p poi. soso ywyw, harold, i i hee to te t ts story. harold, the e rsrstay he c inin, was onhehe educationon committee and haharo w was on t

educatatiococommtee. usualllllept throughit,t, hold worked. he camameover one dayand said,, hey, i have this bill. i'i'm rold ford. was probably 27,,28. >> yep,27. >> i was s .. we were the youngegestuyuythere. s saii i ha this bill and ll you support it? ii loked at itit sure, sign me . and d i didn't reize that you don't do t tt i i conongrs.s. and so thehe chairman, you kno he pulls mento the ba r rm anays,listen, if youou'ree gog g to come too my coommtete ststayaseep, all ririgh do you reize youusust gavehehe democrats a wiwi i said, i i looked likea good bill. > hdid. it's a true stryry. > it is a true e sty.y. i slept all ththtitime it's time for r mu-r-rd op-e-eds and what h he e yo selected,, ke? >> i'v'veeselected two, jojo one frfrom " "thwall street jojourl"l"nd one from thehe "chicacagoriribu." let's gogoith "the wallll seeee journal" fifit.t. do we need aececo s stulus bill? it a a bitdddd that the reaction by the obama amiminiration and some congressional leaders to aa

policy thatt ha not worked is o consider putting a similarar policy in place.e. one interpre tags isishihis yet ananotr r portunity to spend re on programs thehe democratst have wanted for years. itit me the case ththat the country wantsore gernment th american now bebeeveves the europeanododelf f bigovernment is b bes it should do s so thth n luluons, he wriite the current stimulus calls f a fure one,overnment growth policies not sttragigi to shorteten e e cuent recession. >> boy,, tellouwhat, harold, the presidenttisis in a toughpp beuse he's gotooervatives saying y y'v'vepent too mumuch he's got liberalsaying youou haven't t sptt enough,nd he's got americans in thehemimidd saying donon'tpepe any more moy. what does h he if, let's say, we doeeed a sond stimimul plan, he c c't't get it through congngre, , ca he? >> i'moing to go threepoints. >> oh, good ld. >> onene, u have to helelp t t states. you neneedomomkind of n spspenng piece. if y you don't, you'reeoing to

force states and l loc gornrnmes to raisetaxes. >> thehe policics it. americics s ha already had enghgh- >> true.e. >> if we believe t t p pol and the spenendi.. so what doeses t president do politicacall >> he has to lelead ee o the shortcominingsasas the e wa an unwillingness on the admininisttition part to admit a mistakaketoto admimi th cosesehey were traveliling m mig have bebethe wrong oneand to rrect that course. sohow other politicians viewew that as a akness. ththisresident, bama, has s shnn a matatitity anddexterity and i think aillingness to lteten to the american people.e. >> did he make mistakeewith the fifirstt stimulusus? >> i think y youavav to t tak biden at his wwd. ththk they and thehe president last ghght saidt t wa incompleletenfnfortion they had. 9 biden said t themimiead the sesevetyty othis. and that happens in businessssd politicscs a inlife. and you judge the geat politicians by how t thereact to it. ifif yoontue down the path -- >> the stimulus in decemembe we're sayingng t s skys falling. l l thprojections in corporate america were horrific. erere re a lot of p pple who

thought -- many peoeopleehought ee stimulus was too g.g. some w whothought it was oo smsml. i think k yohahaveo help the states, n nuerer onone. you have t t reward t tho state in making toughghand smart dedesisiongs. two, you h havtotoave a p payll tatax holiday t t enense you ges much moneynto the systemmn twtwmonths. > what'ssthree? >> the thirird one e extd unemployment beefefit yoyorereoing toto hee tto. >> tttt european leaders at the g-2020 saidouou'r spendingn tomumuch money, merkel,, sarkrkz said we'e' n notollowing you. u'u'vepent too much. this leads to h hyp flflatn. atato they think if come back and say we're g gng to have a second stitilulus papacke?e? >> we'e're paranoid about hyper inflation. at's our 0 ththngng. fifits and unemployment iss hyhyrr inflation ineurope. this is the inconsistency i "the wall street journrn" " pie they sayay ty y lieve the european model is best. yohahave biggerstimulus package than wee do. >> we do. when obama went tohe 2020 inin nemembehe wanted europepean to haveigigge imimul packages.. >> merkel andnd sarkozy. can you elala that divide

because we amerericss h hav forgotteten atat 197979ndnd 198s like. n you explain why eueuroanan are soso hntnt by the specter of ininatatio >> it goesack to the war. e wheelbarrowss of money b bngn carted through the s seeeets of ber lib to b buy a loaf of brea. th's where it srted. the e fffferce is we have a gggg social safetynetwork andnd peopopleerer't feeling during the height of the recession, end of last year, early y th y yea they werer't't fling the pinch m mh in europe. y youost your job, y you didn't lose your healalth insurance. yourduducaon wasttil reasonably guaranteeeed and so people weren't mamandg ofof their governments. toetet back to harold's s inint and what you werere sining abou last november,ee did look like we were f falng off a cliff last nombmber people areret t feing that nono nonow what extent is that in terms of fiincncia rescue?e? banks aree better shshap

> en though unemployment continues togogo up we ddn't knowin december howow badit was gog g be. weould have llllen o the cliff. now americans are sing, ooka this i't grgre. we're pupushg g e reset button but we're going to survive. i ththkk december t the w w no visibility. d decbeber nobody ddny idea and depending on whher you felt job seserity, what papart thee country yoyou rere i you d didiererenlevels of optimism and different levels of hohow a and different t tititus about what thgogornment was going to dodo to bail us out. no there is a l lite bit off visisilility the order,, e industririalrdrdr fanned oututanand i tinin peopl inink ybe this is gngoo work but i i wldld te issue with the fact americacans i i genera want too much the european model. i'i'not so sure. >> the p pol are s sowing t th ririgh now ateast this m mthth t uld appear they on't. mike babaicle, a lotf pepelele wod d k why wouldn'thhe ama administratitionn n dember give a a rososy scscenio?

the awewe is becausee at lows them to project m me revenue a and a all them to prprope bigger spending programs. >> o onef f e biggest problems, i would submit, isn't t lilitil, it's cututul. he's dealing w witanan azingly imimtitienculture in this country y anththe stimulus paagag well, erere'the money? where's the money? ey passed it in february. where's theemoney? how come ey havenenpaved the roads he?e? s sti havepotholes. wh's's gng on? how come t therereoing nototngn? >> it'ss aosost amnesia. we forgot howw b it was. you have to thininkff wehahavet d d th stimulus and t talks, mamaybwe'd be in a m muc worse poposion than right a anydy around thisis table alallyhink and, aaga,, i hahadd the stimululus packckag i thoughgh was a polititica doment. ithought it was a ghtmare. the same time i didn't asassu itit w going to start wrking b jujuly did abody aroundhis tablee thinkk that stimulus package would magically jcece the economy in sixmonths?

>> not magicallyutut i certaiaiy ththinthth generallyy people fet like t theddstart feelinggththe efefctcts thatthth wouldn't -- wouldndne a a year b befe it startededororki, that we woululdn b bhearing in six mohs to give us another r x x months before it s stas s wowor. >> you look at the recession. >> it esest. yoyou okok at t ee new deal and to a whwheeor industririal spending to go up d,d, my gogod it tookk eight yrs for unemploymemento o goelow20%. >> susie welch knows t thi as wewe a as ybody around the table, the great lesson of these ononic hardtitime is when you're too timid a and i'd much rather six monthth from now say we overreacted in some ways. >> i don't know if i w wldld ree. >> n no,nono. shshe y not agreeith my specific pesescrtion for it b bt if youou l lok acrosshehe arcof economomicssssue in the country if youu d't't act boldly during the difficult times, y y find yourselflf i a more d dfificu

situation. >> now jack welch wshsh theyy would have t tipiple the size o thepackage? >>hahat' nuts. >> i get e-mails, you'ree socialist. >> heeooes believe firmly you're a sosociist. i meanan, i think ttt boldness n terms of crisis is gerally a good thing butt n boldness the wrong direction. >> i'm with him. can debate the specifif prescription for i it t t has to b be ldld. you pay forr this with ee t.a.r.p. rerepaenent. i'd figuguret out. >> harolold,titi around. yoyou t t the more points coming up. we have e a w w gment. secrcrety y ofealth and humum rvices kathleen sebelius andnd secretary janenenapolitano. the lebrbr j jam dunk you won't see. whvideo of the summer pickupup game is being coconfcacate only fredddd b balgame has that sty.y. i can't waititoror tt.

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less than a week after returng om his suspension for using female fertili drs, manny ramirez was ejected foarguing with the umpire. ejected, yea when asked about it manny said the argument startedhen he forgot my birthday.

we love conan. hey, t incredible thgs happened here the east coast yestery. the sun came out and the mets beat theodgers. yes! here's nbc's fred roggin. thank you and good morng. the mets hosted the dodgers last night for the second of threin the big apple. dodgers ve the best mark in thague. mets have lo 9 of 11. who won last night's gam the mets of course. ti at one in the third. david wright a single to left. daniel murphy scored. mets scored three in the inning and led 4-1 aftethree. here's a great defensive pla in e seventh. loretta a bouncer down theine, ricocheted off the line. e toss to first for the out. an incredible playorth another look. murphy flipped theball behind his back and had loretta by the slimmest of margins. fast forward for the ninth. mets u5-3. manny ramiz t that lead in half withis eighth homer of the year, seconds from returning from a 50-game susnsion. ramirez 1 fo4. mets up by just one. stilin the ninth, two on for andre ethi whounded into a ga-iing double play.

frankie rodriguez earned his 22 save of the season. it wasn't pretty, t thmetsl take it, 5-4. bale for first in the a.l. west. ange and rangers. andruw jones hit not one, not two, but three homer jones had only three homs in all of last year. rangers beathe angels and have a one-game leain the west. couple of walkof to show you. philand reds. two downbottom nine. shane victino a liner to center. pedro feliz althe way from seco to score the winning run. phils came from two ru down to beat the rs, 3-2. rays hosting the blue jays. tied at nine in the nih. ben zobrist with a sling single to right. carl crawford stole second and third toet into scoring potion, trotted home. rays with a barn burner 10-9 now howbout this, ae you kidding me, lebron james at the basketballcademy a. kid dund over lebn. no big deal? ll, if you're nike, they confcated tape of the nk because they didn't want to see that lebron is human.

course we alrea know that given thcavserfoce against orlando. ke's slogan for lebron is we are all witnesses unless, of course, nikeoesn't want you to e. finally the lakers introduc ron artest. he has wn an array of numbers throughout his career. he'll be wearing number 37 in honor of theber of weeks michael jackson's "thriller" sat at the top of the charts. approprie he is wearing 7. dennodman wore number 73. great minds think aike. we'll talk to you tomorrow. that's right, fred, grt mind we're all sti here. comingup, kathln sebelius, secretarysebelius, and meland security secretary napolano on "morning joe."

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wewelce e "morning jo." a auauful shot of washingtoton, d.c. e e whe hohous real america as w we call itt wh mika isot around. greaeat h he you with us. atat hugeshow. >> i it'enenmous. >> katty kayndnd susie welch. >> that's a s sthther baptist thing, by y thway. because i grgrewppn ahuhurc ererehe pastorlwlwys had the points a andso every tmeme you comomeen it's likeone point, two point,hrhree point. i just asked m, d that c omom yr chchur?? sure enough. aryou baptist? >> yes, i . of course,, i it' a baptist

thing.g. >> my rerererend -- >> w w can oy c cou toto three. that's not the c ca nnow tell e eryrybo. no, seriouslsly. rereways to salvation. e, two, three. you knknow, three ways t tohell one, tt, ththre >> t t brits derstand what 're talkingabout. chris was saying three p poiss were toooo many. many can o onl count to two.o. i take jujust o one big point. >> we've got --- you were talkg about president obobam slipping in the polls down toto 5.. we've e go gallupp nsnsids the neneoon 55% and above. we're goioing t to showing the poll in a aminute t taing about other pridents, h howonong ey held their honeymoon status as ll and also thecia. we're going to b b talking to te congresswoman who o otote letter talklkintoto ngngsswoman eshoo. she's great. >> i veve her.

she hasrritn a letter saying that leononan et aththat mimied the cia l li repeatedly sisinc2020. what are you laughing g about? that's what she said. >> okaay, well, wewel l a her out it. >> thahat' what panetta said. u a lelalaenence'donnell comi? azy guy,of cocosese. emotionally balanced. >>e's out gttttganan adrenaline sh.. >> hee likik to s scramam they' liars. that's's pbabay pretty gogood politic politically for rerepuicican got katttt here who talksks w w e'e's t spopod to. >> yeah, know. i'm aad girl. i was a law abidernd thenn joe corrupted mme. >> and ll us a autut yr book. itit i a a spectacular book t t ink explainshehe world,, america and t t world. >> women are now gng to be t key not only -- if trere had en more women on wall street,t, we may note in this mess a at the moment.t. but womeme a are going to be th key to getting us ou of this

recessssio too. companies that employymomore senior women make more moy.y. >> younnow what republicans say about women? they hadn't gothe right toto votete wwowoulstill be in the ite house. i d dot say ththa sue. >> i don't'tnono aepepubcan who actually says haha >> jack k sa i all the me. >> he doesesotot say it. >> yes, hedoes.. >> doo not malign jacackk when not here. jajackss very progresessi w wn it ces to meme yore wrong, you'rewrong, u're wrong. >> and women makeke more moeyey ththeyakake more money. we are good for t the bottomlin. >> youou'r darnedstraight. always said in congressththe memen congress didn't lilikeths butt i always said ififouou wt somebody to o siararnd the table d d ta about doing things, higher a man. if you wanant to get things don higher a woman. seseously. i und thatat. i had women ruruining my cacaai. i hahad memen ruruining my polil office. they run my life at home. d dyou know anyone m mo

efficient t anan a wkiking moth? no chat a arondnd thewawate coo. >> womomennn wall ststrt, we wowodn't be loiningt the size of the deficits that we have today if there were momoreomom running g thgsgs. >> why d dyoyousay aa why dodo y s say that? >ececau you're morere respsponblblthan men. it all depends on h h t ty're rewardrdedndnd mivated. >> think t the's something ffffent in the way wmamagege. we d do takee longer rmrm cisions. werere more risksk aversese. >> a woman paido think longg term is g gngngoo beevevehe same way as a mann paid to ink long rm. >> i thinknkt't' okay ateter 30 years to say w wre ififfent. >ftfter million years, n andwowon are different >> we wewerepretending tbebe le e guysys and wearing tckck shshldlderads, i'm urur >> boy, i ianan tell you, big difference a aga a afar as rurunng my o opations inn the papast with a did youou find? >> there's noodoubt. m going to align myselfwiwi ththe memen on ts oint. onpoint.

>> one oioi, all right. > eept the women aren' aligned.d. >> no, notreally. t ting to win vos.s. monicaca novotny - - first of al do we have a picture of kakatts s ok? this will change thehe world. "womenomics." >> monic what's going on? some ofhem you already meioned. we'll starwith president obama at the g-8 summit in italy workingith fellow leaders to coront problems facing leaders arouhe globe. at the top of the agenda climate change and the world economy. oba is hoping to make his mark by chairing discussio on the environment buhopes of agreeing onmtious goals have ched after china andindia rejected demands too much the emissionof greenhouse gas by 2050. metime, capitol hill mbling th morning following a claim by some house dmocrats that the a has deceivecongress for years. according sev democrats on the house intelligence committee, ci dector leon

panetta said his agey has concealed, quote,siificant actions om congress repeatedl since 2001. the cia sponded by saying, quote, it is not t policyor actice ofthe to mislead core. a state official says seven south rean websites are under renewed cyber attack today. officials suspec north korea is behind the sies of other haings this week that have triggered websit outages in south korea and here the us. wel the s. is sus ntding $16.5 millio in military aid to hondas following the military coup. ou president zeya is demanding his rivals hand wer back to him wiin the next 24 hos. nashlle orities confirth former nfl star steve mcnair and his girlfriend died in a murder/suicide. police say t 20-year-old woman shot mcna in hisleep before turning theunn herself. >> and in a potentially alarming tre for the white hoe, you heard joe just mention it, a new galluppoll showinpresident obama's apoval rating slipping to a

new low of 56% wednesday, and that is down from high of 66% back in january. 61% last h. pollsters say a source of the shift appears to be indendent voters. they are responding to reblican complaints of excessiv spending and gornment control. let's over to todd santos. no, we're not. we're going to go rig over to joe. noorecast but it loo beautil new york. >> thank you so muc monica. greatly appreciate it. we werealking about the president's polls slipng down to 56%. still pretty darned good by historical standards. to put things in perspective, gallup ran another poll, data about how longresidents held their honeymoon numbers which gallup consirs 55% or above, so the president i still in that phase. let' run it. this is sincejimmy carter jimmy carter held approval ratings of 55% or above foright months. ronaldeagan for eight months.

bill cnton for one month. and bush43 for three months. the record held, dwight eisenhower for 41 mons. >> before th internet. >> yeah >> before cable tv. >> before cable television. >> before peopleike us came i and ruined everything. so many things blew upn president clinn in the first we. he had z baidon't ask/don'te, so many other things. >> it's an indication the total value and judgment on your presiden cannot be judged after four months clearly. carter was still -- was surprised to see carter was up there in the top when we looked back at his presidency. >> we have some verympor guests here. they are health and human services secretary kaleen sebelius andalso with us we've got homeland security secretary net ia pnapolino. they'rbothng to host a mm to prepare the country

for a possibility more intensified outbreaks of the h1n flu vius. thank you all so mucfor being with us. sos there a possibility of another oureak a me dangerous outbreak in america? >> well, jo the flu hasn't go away. we have about 33,00 documented cases but the deling says ght now we probably have about a llion cases in america of the h1n1 virus and it's appearing in 101 countries around the world. we have a tue pandic that's spreading rapidly. what we don't know iswhen it reappears in theall ntues to travel in the fall whether mixing with seasonal f it will get a lot mor lethal than it is right now. so we wantto be read and we want to prepare and that's the purpose of the smmit today. secretarynapolitano, what happened?

were we just distracted by other stories, by scandals, by michael jackson? i mean, a lot of americans waking up hearing whatthey've heard as the swin flu said wasn't thalast month story? >> from a med standpointyes, but from a disease sndpoint, no. as secretary sebelius said this virus has reined in thenited states. we stillave cases - we still haveome atalities. the ing we're rlly watching, though, is what is happening in the uthern hemisphere because they're in the midst of their flu season. helps us to be able to preparto know when the season comes back to the northern hemisphere to us wt we might be loong at. >> secretary sebelius wat do we ve on hand for vaccine? >> well, we're in the process of gettingready for a vaccination program. a coup of things are going on. weurchased the bulk ingredients for a vaine the flu virus ras are being

own and tested right no clinical trials will begin this mont we'll know a lot b the end of augustnd we need to mke sure two things one that we have an eective vaccine, that it really does immunize fks against h1n1 but alsohat we have safe vne those two piees of the puzzle are vy important and we're moving aggressively toward having a vaccine ready by mid-october. >> let's go to katty kay with the bbc. >> can i switch topics slightly and ask you about health care reform? i was down in texas a i kn lot ofeoe in the white house have been looking at that new yorkerrticle you have where the qualityof care hasn't really kt up with costs. ef the things i was just wonderg, the process of reform, how are we going to poli the amount of care tat amerans are tting? because iteems that when it mes particularly t medicare patients, there is nody saying to paties, you know, actually that operation thatyou're being offered may not actually be the best care here eve though it's going to be the most expensive form of care. where is the polici going to

come in there? >> well,part of its that the protocol is really dveloped by providers, give us a phway quality care. and we have wonderfulxamples around the country of systems that have not onlyowered cts but reallyimproved patit ouomes, a kind of win-w situation. what we've got to do is take that to scale, have that happen in eve part america. can help do that, changing th payment system inmedicare, rewarding and incentivizing doors to follow protocol, rewarding hospitalso keep patients healthier, not have one out of five patients leang the hospal is readmitt wit30 daysan most of those folks ha never seen a doctor in the meanme. that's not good for the patient and iteally drives uposts so we havedentified a wle sees of areas which is at the presidenput on the tae as par of his health reform savings,really shifng

dicare payments toeward outcomes and not the quantity of care but the quaty of care. >> all right. secretary sebelius, thank you so much. secretary napolito, thank you so mh. as we showhe four shot, you all are part of history. a morning joe first. more women on thset than men. i like it! >> that's a good thing. >> exactly. my wife actually going to congratulate me. >> you're smart man. >> very good. >> thank you all so much for being with us and gooduck keg the public's attention on this. let's go now to ro. we are goingo savannah guthrie because other ob leaders are focusing on the enomy at the g-8 summit. wi us now nbc news white house correspondent we evated yesterday to chi white house correspondent, i did, because i can. savaah guthrie is in rome. >> reporter: i can't te the title but i'll tkehe raise. can't take the title but will take a raise. >> now that chuckis wching on

radio uaid thank you very much. hell with chuck todd. >> reporter: i thoughte were justalking on the phone. iidn't know. no, we were on dio. was in washgt so everybody hed it. what's going on in rome day? what does the esident hope to accomplish? >>eporter: well, the expanding this g-8. we're going do a little geometry. it will be the g-8 plu five. the deloping countri like brazil, hi, dia, those cotries that are so important to t world economy now that a lot of people think why even meet with theg-8 if you're not going to inude them. they aren't officially part of the g-8 but theye now the dp-8 plusive and add one more to it, egypt. itinvited egypt. eyill all get together and issues are climate change as they were yesterday as well as the world economy we saw somethingf a finesse th climate ange thg-8 all agreed to try to keep temperatures om rising more thatwo degrees. the average world temperature two degrees celsiusich is 3.6

degreesfahrenit. but what they couldn't do was gethe commitment from nations like china, il, india to commit to re stricter goals by the year 2050. so it's going to on the agenda but thiss a real heavy lift and it always has beento get some of these countries onboard. but for th first time in while administration oicials say, look,e have something to talk about. we did pass the cap and trade bill in the ouse. >> me barnicle? >> hey, savannah, serisly now, just between us, does anythin actually getdone at these conferences? all thescountries show u for about 16 hours. they get soccer jerseys, they g to the o, they have dinner, and then they issue these big proclamations. does anything actually get don >> reporr: well, you kno i'llell you one wonders what all the hooa is bout. of coursthe leaders woul say, s, this is al very signifant but, you're right, they issue a series of these

clarations or proclamatio and have these words like w agreed to urge or set aoal of this or thatand it doesn't have aot of teetho it. but this is international plomacy. thiss what it's all about. i can'tomplain. it a bchl settin >> absolutely. >> really quicy be we go, the g-20 in november, a lot of friction between president obama and sarkozy, ao merkel. any headutting this time or do ey seem to be getting ong well? >> reporter: well, of course on the surface they say they have a greatrelationship. ey've met with eachother i think three timenow. but i think those policy differences still persist. spifically let's talk about the ecomy. merkel and probl sarkozy, too, would le to be talking about what they call exit stragies. there have bn all these amatic interventionin the economy. th want to start thinking abt how do we get o of this, how do we return t business as usual and the obama adnistration and some of the others in the g-8 are saying

that's fine. we want to do that, too. the economy isn'tuite heahy yet so let's not do it yet son typical g-8 fason what the agedo do was say let'sstart preparing exit strategies b it's too soon to implement them. >> i love i okay. that really sounds like harold writing these letters, the communique. >> youan jump on mell you want but sarkozy spent$37 million in france thfrch aorking this suer normally thetake july and august off they're working th summer. there's nothing wrong with that. i think obama has had an impact on sarkozy and merkel. >> we are the world. fantastic. savannah guthri thank you so ch. coming up, more on the showdown between congress and the cia. wel be talking to a wonderful friend of mine. i n't know if she would still ll me her friend. she was one of the decrats who signed tat letter regarding leon panetta with claims the cia

misled congress sie 2001. plus msnbc polical analyst, and he is crazy as hell, lawrence o'donnl. we're going to have a firs look at t new "time" magazine cover. we've dede a great product even b better.

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>>and with us now, great friend. harold, u're going to ve to keept to two points. demoatic representative from california and member of the permanent select committeen telligence, they never lete on that committee because it had the wordinlligence in it, congresswomaanna eshoo,one of the democrats who signed that letter askin leon panetta for she is with us now. great to see you again, anna. how are you doing? >> great to see you. thank you.

>> gives the background here. when the news first came o we heard leon panetta had said that the cialied and now do i undend it right y a heard testimon behind closed doorwhere admittedhat the cia had misled america? >> leon patta, the director of the cia, camep to the hill to a closed session ofhe house intelligence committee t inform us tt a program, which i can't discuss, obviously, had be in eration from 2001 until the day before he came meet wit us and he ha ended --e had ded that program. was there to tell us tha no memberf congressha ever bee informed. an so the coittee was actually stunned. >>'m sorry anna, h been informed of the enire program?

>> that's right. >>andou can't tell us what the program involved? >> no. nothat's highly classified. >> ok. so le panetta, ofcourse, has told u before, a we can read the written statement but you know it, that the cia doesn't lie. it's not the practice of theia to ie. and becae of that obviously nancy pelosi cug a lot of grief, a friend of your and a friendf mine fro congress. does nancy pelosi believ that e has been hungout to dry by leonpanetta? >> wel i d't think this is about nancy pelosi at all. this is -- go back tle netta's may 15th statent where heaid let me be clear. it it not our practice or our policy to mislead the congress. its against our lawsnd values. w this flies in the face of that in a very, very serious way. >> well, an, the cia saidt

again yesterdater your lett ce out. >> exaly. i think into they simply do no want to acknowledge that the congress wasnot fully informed. and they ha an obligat joe, under the national security act of 1947 to fully andn a timely way to informhe congress. >>right. >> so this is a serious as it gets. i do give leon credit for coming up to the hill and informing us. he hadust been informed hielf but this is -- tis flin the face of th responsility, the full reonsibility of former cia directors where time and time again theommittee asks is there anything else that we do not know? and they sd absolute not. >> s i guess the qestion is -- >> we can't operate todo the work the american people expect us to do. if they're n going be forthcin >> you're t in a position to have orsight.

and you and i, i'm sure as we know fro wrking togeth, we disa on many things. >>hat's right. >> politically. buthe one thing i would guess we both agree on i that congress has to cotantly be informed, at least a sect committee on intel. we are in agreement there. so if,nfact, congreswas lied to, that should concern all americans. >> absolutely. >> is it important enough if you have a cia directors sayi one thing publiclyut telling you something elserivatel isn't this an imrtant enough issufor the president of the united states to step in declassify this informn so we can get the trut >> well, i think the committee has to psue this. i think tre needs to a full investigation on the matter. it warrants it. what goeon behind the closed doors, of course, is necsa. but i think that i a new era with new administration that the american people want t see

an agency, a of the init tell generals agencs where so my fine people rk th they are onhe level withcongress. imagine not e member of congress was ever informed. this program was initiatedin 20 and ended the day before the director came to inform us on june 24th. >> we have mike barnicle. a lot of peoplwho want tosk questions. mike barnie? >> congressman, just want to clear u win thing from 2001 the day bore leon panta, the director camto yur commtee, had he just found out aut this program? tt's what he informed us. that's what he informed us. and that's why i say i give credit to him foroming up and information thhoe intelligence committee. he did the right tng. >> you give cedit to him but at the same time it sounds from at you're sayingthat he's ing to the americanpeople. you behind cled dos and to another ing puicly.

>> no, no. the members that sign the letter -- and i don't think anyone on the commiee would say that he was lying to us. what he didsay on may 15th was that the cia does not mislead the coness. that it is against heir laws andhr values and at's why we wrote to him. seven members of the committee, and said we think th you should resta plicly and say that this statement no longer stands. >> well, but that'shat they did today,though, and they said that it isnothe position or -- nor is it our practice to mid congress so y he a colict today. he didn't lisn to you and either the cia is lyingr you're lyi and of course i know y're not lying. you're a wderful person. there is a gray area he. leon panetta is tell yoone thing behind closed doors and anotr thing publicly. ouldn't that cause you and

americans concern? >> well, it is of deep concern because this is so serious but what would say-- what i would say to my chire when they were small was that little people make little mtakes. big people make little mistakes. we kno mistakes have been de. th is a grievous on this is as serious as they come. now why the cia is sticking to the same quoteve and over again, ion't really think is -- i thin it's totally inapprriate. but they'ring to stick to their line. it's not . and i think arrants an investigation the full committee. >> okay. i would like an vestigation. katty kay? >> katty kay here. two things, one this very quickly getting confused with the nan pelosisaga. is this going to ma it harder be clarified and the second is does this program need to declassified iorder r the

american publito really derstand what happened and whether the cia lied to congress can americans understand what haened if they don't really know what we're taing about? >> well, ihink that's why there needs be a f investigation. a full investigation who set up the program, how can it be that one cia director afternother th are now etired and others never fully informed the ngress. and so ithink that is what is necessary. i think the fu committee was absolutely stunned when we were informed that program was in place in 2001 until 2009. >> do rpublicans express simir concern? i'morry to interrupt you. >> they did. sure they did. >> i would guess this to be a bipartis issue. americans.ll patriotic rht. >> we understand the gravity of the jo that we have to don behalf of the american people at

the house intelligence committee. of course they were conrned. we all were. re than concerned. we were stunned. >> all right hey, thank you so much for being with us and ofourse i'm glad to he that because wh congress imisled, that happened. it'sot time to circle wagons politically. it's great seeing you ain. >> it's eat to see you, jo i wishyou well. thank you. >> i wish yo well, too, and come back when the instigation is laud. >> thank you >> fascinating. california, leon, nancan in anna. she's nogoing to call leon panetta a liar, and iunderstand th. i hate to put it in those terms. she's saying leon petta is telling them one thing behind publicly.ors and one thing el >> he said something publicly before he came to em and knew the program was in exisnce. >> what not being discussed is the ise of intent.

at would motivate the cia to lie, rit? people who tnk the cia is lying, they've got so kind of assumption abo w the cia would be lying and the people who are saying the ciaoesn't make it a practice. what are wefraid of? is the cia acting like regades? are th off the reservation? what are we afraid of? >> harold? >> ihink in fairness to what the cia spokespersonaid he did give validity to what anna hoo said. th the cia itself took the initiative tootify the oversight committe which you an i c say we notifiethem of somethinghat was going on. other question for me, d thsk the director orre there other programs sheay not be aware of and what steps are you taking to learnof them. he notifd them when he learned of them. what action, if any, can be taken if indeedhe programs rellegal in their practice? >> you work on it. we'll bring in the republan reesentative from michigan,

also a memberuch of the house intelligen coite, congressman mikerogers. congressman, it sounds le harold has a good place to art. first of l, tells what was your reactn, what was the republican reactionhen leon panetta told you about these prrams tt had been going on since 2001 that you knew nothing about? well, first of all, after this briefing, i thinkt's -- i don't know if we can come to the conclusion they were lied to and misled. those are very serious allegations. i didn't walk away from that meeting thinking thahappened. thisasn't a program that wa continuously operated. it never gotup to where they -- its originalintention. it wasff again/on again. so i think there's a lot of questionse ve to he answered. i have to say i think this is a little bit of political theater ve early inthe noon that we learneabt a program that was at least pitched back in 2001, never reallyot up andrunning. now you say it's political theater. others say is political

theater because this is now, of course, when the c appropriations bilis coming to the floor of the house. >> solutely. here, listen think about t. the chairman of the committee tucks under the door ter 8:00 at nightfter everybody has gone home saying i havcome t the conclusion we' been misled and lied to. and you should know that as we go into the debate othe authorization for inteigence. i mean, come on. i used to be an fbi agent. you don't ha to be all tt good know that's probably a clue that they are wried aout all of the other hbub about the speaker attacking the and he's the thin that thers me most. i mean, obvisly something we should look at. i dn't walk out of the thking, oh, my lord. the wor is coming down aun us. listenare we going to spend our time attacng the cia or are we gog to spen our time figuring o what's going on in rth korea with nuclear weapons? alaeda and where are they trying to get a dirtyomb?

we have lots a lots of really rtant issues. taing the cia to make sure that the speaker looks oy at the end of the day is t a good use of our time and i argue is ngerous to national security. >> we ve harold ford e. >> always god to see you, man. >> good to see you. >> the program u were nofied abt. you've been on t committ, have there been numerous incidences when yove had a director come before and say we are going to notify you of the ogram because you indicated e program w o and on in 2001? i'm justurious how often does this happen and if it do happen, is it meing serious something the american people should take more riously? >> well, sten, i believe firmlyhat congress should be formed and that's the proper ovght role that we play. u know, you nd thatn agcy thibig involved in as many things a they are, th bump int things. our job to determine, liste are you doing something ong intentionally? are you misleadin and lying, which is a very, veryerious ch or did you something wrong?

it a traffic ticket or is it a felony? big difference. >> no doubt abouit let's bring mike barnicle. mike? >> i have two time lin questions for you. easy questions. >> okay? >> wn did thedirector appear before theommittee and say, hey, i just found out about this thing yesterday? when was that? >> tt would have been, boy, about two weeks ago, i think. >>nd when did the letter en was the letter written that we're talking about rightnow? when was that written? >>yunderstanding itas two nightsago. not last night buthe night before. >> so even inspector kuzo could fire this out? >> cleay. the newspapers got the letter fore we got the letter. very clearly this is a political event. >> i when thathappens. congressman, thank you smuch for being with us. we appreciate it. congressman mike rogers, w appreciate it. >> thanks for havinge. >> and you know, harol one thing i didn know, i didn't kn you two werebrothers. >> 've been to afghanistan and

iraq. he's a good guy. his brother served as in the army and iraq. mike got a chance s him. >> so u spent a lot of time tother? >> we did. a good guy. take him at his word. >> you do. so y think -- >> only one poi. take him at hisword. yeah, look at that. >> youthink this i political? there's no dou there's a political dymic to it. if the job is to exercise oversight, will should besome concern on the part of all of us when a program is up and running fr 2001 to the present and it took this long for the current a director to know about it. i don't deny the poly. >> toss the wordie around. this context from is morning, were they ask about the program? how many pple knew aboutit? the program s it an on agn/off again deal? >> ihink we kn more. i really do. we have the two members of congress thinking that congss needs to be informed abo this. >>his seals less politic than theancy pelos stuff.

>> tell me about it. ifack welswere here, if he learned one of his duties had done something for eight years and he didn't knowut i his job,e woulbe disappointed if not ary. >> i suppose this is the ki of thing he mentionedl evolve in a gigantic political tempest in the teapot and energy that shoulbe devoted other issues and could be diverted. dangerous. >> we all see. up next, former chief of sff to president clinton, mack mclarty. lawrence donnell, not a gat y. keep it on "morng joe."

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welcome babacko o "mning e.e. the sosoh h of france, werer mi is right owow real erera. mi is not onthth beacach. heramamil owns theirwnwn private beach in thth south of france and theyey tip champagag and eat caviar. form earp whwhithohoe chief of stafff under pesesidt clinton, mack maay. ma, the co-chairff the cocounl on foreign relations, independent tasksk fcece onu.s. immigratioion lilicyhich released a popo on hoho broken our immigration systetem and

hoit teaeans the nation's economic and nationanal cucuri. also with us, a gu we found o the sstrt,t, lawrence ddonll. ththk you both for beingngwiwit us. >> justt wkiki b mak, thank you for inin with usus. >> good morninin e.e. >> i was thinking it t ululd great to havave uu here and a a lawrence becauseseouou guuysere both there 33 and 94, the last time democrats t ted to launch health care rerefo. dodo y s s any similaritieies o thgrgrnd polititicayyetween nonow then a any warning signs t th psident obama should takee te of? >> well, i think nay, who is heining the health cee effort, wass alsohher and there wewe some lsons learned,d, joe. i don't think ththerss yy question a abo i it. presidents a ayoyou ow and all ofof yr r lleagues know have atteteteted alth c ce e rerm and not manyny hee succeeeede i think k esesidt obama hahas rerealhance toovove forward on healthare form. i i ink thelessons are th he put a broadd proposal t the for

the c cgress thento isisss, evaluauatemamakechanges. i think he's cast we netnd i ththinight now theheealth ca initiativeisis positioned well. the e ise,e, j, is cost. that's the ssue th's'shere i think th real debate is goingtoto come d do th time much more than thehe policy self. >ou oow,ack was runningg the white e hoe.e. you were working with pat moihan. >> chairirma moynihan, that's's right. >>n n e senate, chairman moynihan. llll mabout the similarities between what you're e sengng n and whatatouou s in '93. >> thehe damams are virtualllly idtitil. there'ss enena shiftft, a a po shift to thehe ft, a s sigfifica onone because as mackemembers in '93 and '9 the central questitin was coulddee get an employeye mandndatininhe clinton bill. that's what didi.. that's what cooul not get roroh the house dd sate fifincnce committee. it got four tes. baucus voted againsnst ii right now mamax baucuss the chairman of the committee. he i in favor ofnn employee

mamande e an an individual mandatate. those are the hottest items back then. cocostas always been a problem. e biggest fffferce, though, theiiggt difference betweenen nowndnd then is is s he simply barack obabama he was e ected withh a real mandndat bill clinton g got i with4343%f ee tte. anan mack, i don't know i i you ddhis conversatatiowiwith kent conrad but kent conrad thenen o the finance committee, a a sid democratat, starteded talkingto him aboutt roundiding up v veser clinton healaltharare d he listened too me pitely andnd whn i finished heid, you know, bill clinton camam in ththir iny ststat behind ross perot. d that's when i i realized, oh, wait a minute, we arere trying pu farar bonond ll clinton's eltoral mandate. obama has anelectoral maandee and h h al franken, the 60th vovote they have a nenew >> happypyays areerere agagai mack, let'sttk. yoyou ingpp very fascinating point. inin00009 ficits seemed to be

bigger problem. in 93 and ' it sememedo be amamerans being concerned d eie dodoct w w going to be yanked awayayfrom them. that is quite e a d dferent dynamic. dodo y a agr with lawawncnce a inome ways americaca has moved a bit left o ohat they wantnt fro washington healtltcacare? >> i thininkhhe's a beer understanding of h heah h re, joe. wewe inhererededome deficits, . >> oh, bigeficits. >e e trd to address t tm m a ofofourse left with a surplus which we're quiteroroud of but i ink this time you have a a very ffffent dynamic. i tnk lawrence reconstructed d it just rightht. i thinkk not o oly was esesidt obama ected with aandate, jo but i thinknk you all have the american people inin a very seseris s ame of mind abobout a number of issues ayou alsonn the healaltharar issue, joe, a veryry distinct t difference, yo have aucuch broaderr possibilit gain boad businesess s spport r health care. that was not t theynynam in

19.. of course e we expended aotot of capipil,l, aot of citit as harold and othther rememeerer, lawrence was right in t center of it wthth chairman moynihan o ththeconomic plplan a the decit reduction pla a of course then w we w wen right in health care. thatatasas aifficult ststep i i tnk that's onee of t the great parallels politically.y. you look at all of the politicl capital you had to extxtguguis o pass that deficitt reduction p a andd t taxncrease which wasas part of th w who plan a and the you did healthcare.. thepresident, this esident, ss had to e einguish some popolical capital o the stimulus plplan, on this longnm budget, on cap and trade, on ililinout detroit. he's also had to extinguguh h a lot ofof capital andndow heinds himselfapapprching health c cre in a similar situtuatnn as you all. imimbi some huge m mntntai beforere gtiti to t biggest peak of them al >> well, as i saididevery

presididenthth has aempted hehethth ce reform h has had a very high mountain to c cli and no one'sreally scaled it really ccessfully. i i thk k esident obama has a a real anance to that. i hope, e, he'll be lele to do it not just with t t 60 ves that y y n not but on a bibipaisisanbasis. the american p peoeeel much better about thehese major refs in criticall areas i in theiei s ifitit'sone on a bipartisan sis. >> i c coun'n't ree more pepecily on something as huge as health care. just can't bebe. >> exactly. . >> a one-papart solutionon.. hey, macck, t tnk you for beein with us.s. it's great to hahaveou. iopopeou'll come cck. >> joe,e, lokok forward toto it. thank you. my plelease.e. >> thahas.s. he's a greatat gugu >>e'e's e nicest guy who ever r worked in thehite house. the nicest gugu >>o thahafuful. >> he was a pleaeasu t twork withth. >>yoyou know,ee didn't say th about you.u. >> no, no n i i thkk if you g gee him time- mack, are you ilill there? >> ifeel likeke lawrence,e, iave

to come to y yr r dense here withth j.. >> take yourur te.e. go ahead. > y'r're crazyzy. >> i'll filibuster.. >> okay.y. mack, thanan s so much. grt t s you. we have a lot to talk about about the cia. > ts is going to be an i i ld you so moment comimingp.p. >> that's grgrea i can't wait.. "timime"agagaze, we shall reretu. these days, people are catching on

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magazine was in london last month. you look like a good southern gentlemain that jacket. >> thank you. >> rick's he to unveil the next cover. it is going t sell -- seously -- like hotces. >> i agree. it is a cover about the governor of aska, sarah palin. is called "the renegade." it ia piece about what she's thinking, what dection she's going in. she's taking the ro less traveled but we don't know where it's going. the piece has a really smar theme. >> the way, these are some great pictures. >> these were pictures that we actually took tuesday eving at r home and she did a bunch of media at day and we h a loca anchorage photographerho went to see her. pictures turned out great.

gives us a sense of her e. tillingham, is that the name of the town where they we fishing on monday? >> dillingham, believe. what was her attitude? was she fensive? >> well, . >> she loed pretty darn hap in theshots. >> she washe opposite of defensive. she was expansive. if you read what w put o "time."com yteay, she kind fleshes t a lot of th things she said probablymore imprecisely at her ns nference and she actually was sort o looking ahead in a way that was not closing any doors and not necessarily oping any doors. >> any surprises for you as y we reading the inrview? >> the thing -- the theme of the story which i thin is so smart is the idea that she is tapping in a discontent withelites, discontent with the establishment, something that, as you i think were pointing out, more people inmericanow self-identify as conservates

than just si months ago or a year ago. e is actually annele the sense that people havet in are notorking and that the people who have been in control r a long time don't exactly kn what they' oing. >> fro a british standin how fascinating of a polital figure is sarah pan, for good orbad? >> no, reallyfascinating. asked by a program in london, by an editor, to do a six-minute piece on sarah palin. that was befe she h announced she waresigning. >> i mean that's michaelackson big. >>n television terms, six minutes is g. she's clearly fascinatg. what i thk i find fascinatin about her is both her d what she says about the country, abouthe fact that she is so polarizi. as rick wassuggesting, you've t these conservatives wh clearly ador her. the moreshe's cite sed in "vanity fair" by a piece on the st coast, the more they adore her,he more she cmes out pressonferences and we think she's rambling,he more

that group of americans -- complimentary of sarahal.rly i'm not kidding, we get trashed by sarah palin supporters saying how dare you. i have to keep going back, saying we think we're being pretty damn fr to her. >> they might be a little sensitiv those people. like sarah, for example. if you say anythingbout sarah she says she's beingtacked. i have a question r the editor of "me" magazi. you guys have msnbc on your tvs over theret "time"? f course. along with n. >> so you know the michael jacksonemorial was th week. ght? you guys know that. >> yes, indeed. >> you think this cover would outsell aichaelackson memoal cover? are you guys nuts? 5 milliolive streams on yahoo! more than e inauguraon? >> tt's actual lay good question. >> you palinn the we of michael? >> how dare you actually report news. >> thank you, joe.

laence's view is simply that whatever sells the most is what you do. is that the premise of your question? y rue is, whatever msnbc does theost is what you should be doing. >> i c tell you, he must watch "morning joe" becaus obvusly we stayed away from it. thatas a decision had you to make. yes. >> do we go for the quk kill, sell a lot of cops economically or do we do another story. >> we're in th journalism siness what is the journasm exactly having to do with that funeral? >> he wastill dead. right? >> come on. it's huge stor there is a huge plic interest in it. >> we did special on michael jackson which has sold phenomenally well. >>you're in the sinking ship of print journasm. >> whoa! >> you picked e governor of alaska when you could have helped fund the budgeof the health iance polici in "time" magazine. >> seriously i'm glad you

broughthat up. thank yoo much f actuly leading "te" magazine's cover with news. >> thank you. >> ckatty kay, thank you so muc for being here. >> that's why'm leaving now. >> more with "te" magaze's rick stengelhen we come back. congressman hen waxman andhy he says e gop is rooting against america.

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>>welcome back to "morning e." it is ththe to of the hou let's look at s sun valley. by the way, letet ask,k,who's singinright now? >> i'm n n tang quesestions. >> you d don'tnow. do yououave anidea? >> i i'sot someone fore to know. >>obody knows. >> it's t raspberrieie ththat was long time ago. >> dudde, it was eaarly 1970. >> one of thee raspberries''

songs s -- "go all the way."" >> i el like i know a lot out music andnd i've n never hed the rasspberri. >> we'r're t of tim if y you've ard of the raspbe y raspberri raspbebeies, y'd know it. weave a lot to talk abouout it. craig lawrence is going to attacke and the ia, he's going to say thth cia is fied with liars i'm gog to defefend e cia because i love ameriri. we g got rck stengel here. ththe sarah lin cover. want to talkk more about sar palin anan reall a surpring "ccago tribune" op-edhis morning ii want to gettour opopion on as we tk about sarah palin. and mikee barnacle, willie geis. had y a baby. >> t t "w" was bornn yesterday afteoon. gegew. >> that's an interesting name selectction. >> george wiiam geist

>>hen thatid goes to school, they'll all look a a him, whaha kind of namam george? >> exactly. we shall see. well, w we'llalk about t th and mu more. susie welch is herere george william geist. bornight pounds on the dodo >> 1:35 yeststerday afternonoon. >> 35 yeterday. certaiainly our oughts are wii the geists t this morning. cocoratulaons. >> what t does tt mean thahat ts by on e second day of hisis lifefe is aeady on t television? >> spoiling the kid. you think t the geistt woululd . ere are so many tales out there. quick e-mail. >> teresa in new york say joe,e, ere are all the beaututiful people this mororning? lolouis, wllie andma, we l love

you but where are they? >> we think w wrekind of beautiful herere. >> mikearnac is my answer to that two wordss -- michahael barnacl. mika's the s sth of rance. loui is i tkish bathhse. willie's in thehe hospital. let's go to mnica novotny. louis is running rious will you around 30 rock right nowow tryiyi to fi a camera. monica,, ve us the nene. joe, grge williamam geist not the first g grge william gegeist. a quick googl srch r reveals geororge wilam geist 872 gradted from dentatal school.l. notany dental schooll ---- hard dedental hool. >> reallyly. >> yyh. there you g justst puing it out there. if the tv thingg doesn work out for thth little guy, maybe a dentisin the makg. >to theews now. president t ama is at the g-8 summit i in italy working wiwi

felloweaders to confront prlems facingg nationss around the globe. atat the top of the agagenda, climate e changend theorld economy. obama's ping to make his mark by chairing disssions on the environment bubut hopeof agreeing on ambitious goals have faded after chinina and india jected demands to have grgreenhou gas ission by 2050. > meanantime,apitol hill ruruling this morning following a aim by soo house democrats that theia has deceived congressor years. accoing to several demococrats on thehe house intelligigence coittee, ciairect leon panetta said i in clod-door testimy that his agency has concealed "significantnt action fr congress repepeatedly since 2001. the cicia resnded by sayingng, t is n not the polic or practice f e cia to mislead congss." a stateffici says seven soutkorean websites arere under renewed cyber attacktoday.. officialalsuspec north korea is behind a s series o other hahaings ts week that have trigged website oages in uth korea and here i in the u.s. the u.s.. is suspending6.5

million in military aid to hondur following last moth's military cocoup. meanwhe, ousted predent nuel zelaya i is demanding his rivals hand back power to him the next 24 hour >> in nanaville,authorities coirm that former nflfl st ststeve mcir and hisgirlfrnd dieded in a murder/suicide.. police say th 20-ar-old woman ot mcnai in hisis sleep before tuturning th gun on herself. >>in a ptentiallylarming trend r the white house, a new gallup p pll shows president obama's approval ratin slippingg to a new low ofof 56% wednday, thatat is down from a higig of january, 61% last month. pollers say a surce of the shift appears to indepennt votersrs respoponding to republ complaints of eessive spendingg and government contr. joe? >> thanknk you s much, monica. let'sring in dememocratic presentive from californinia, chairmanf the house committee on energynd commerce,, coressman henry axman. 's also the author of "the waan reportrt-how congress

really works." yestery on a radio programam he talk aboutut thedemococts' uphil battle withh repuicans on health care,e, said somethingngt peopop are tking about. let's ay the tape. my fst choice would be to have a good bill w with bipartin support but we can only control that so much,, becausit appears the republican pty leadehip in thehe congrs has made a decisision thathey want to try to deny president obamam succes whwhich ans, in myymind, they're roing against the c country a well.. >> all right. nry, i've got lot totalk to you abouout. thanks so much f being with us. >> thank you. i'm pleased to be with you. >> do you really tnk republicans in congrgress are cheering agast america?a? >> o, i don't. what i w w exprsing was i kn the frustration of beingng in te minority. i was part of the minity when thdemocrats were out off pwer fofor 12 years. it's's diffilt to try to figure outhe role.

e role coululbe to rk out on a a biptisan baasis and get things done butut that can give politil benefits to t majority. soometimes the mininority decides they're goinin try to defeat tngs so at the pararty in power has thing to show for the successes ofof their admistration. ll, i expressed some frustration to republicans adership, even though martin feldstein a conservatative economist sasaid we neeed a stimulus bill. no r republica if the house ted for it. on climate change w which i mor of a regional fht than partis one, most reblicans vod against it. but ii don't want to throw fire at thihis tuation. i kn how difffficult it is to be in the minonority. i hopepe we can worork tether -i think is a republblican frtration that's led them m to wantnt to oppose things and it s my frustration because i want birtisanship in order totoet thingsgs done. but ii think i'sike saying youou

did a minute ago, i like the ca becaus i'mpatriotic american. ththat mea if anybody's crical of thehe cia they're not patrioc? and i don'tant to sasahe repupublicanare rooting aggains the country y cause don't believe that so i apolologize f y inrence of thahat along ose lines. > lete just say, henry,y, i apologizizif anyemocrat thouought i s tatalking specifically abobout them not lovinghe country. of ourse, you and both know i s only tataing abt lawrence o'dodonne o'donnelell. he burns an amererican flaevery momoing r breaast. >> i t think the audience got that. >> i iwas just you we havave a lot too tk abou. want to talk about yourok. bere we get thehere, yesrday r the rst time inin se time america wawas not se as thead boy y on clite change in a globalconference. alright. so now we're not thhead ys. now is india and china.. inow youou've heard consvatives say all alon even i we signed on to the clate change bills we w wld

still have i india a china out ere, much biggggerproblems. how do we draggthem into the 21st cenry to takee yr posititi on clbed change? >> i think we have to move away from theood guys and e bad guys. we h have to learn to worork wi pepele andhat's why i regretted the idea that republicans might not beeooting for th country. because i got to work w with repupuicans. they have to w work withh me. united states has to workrk wit the interernationalommunity cause global warmrming is notot problem we are going toolve alone. we're e going need theest of thworld to be with us. whwhat we sa for t t lastight years s india and china sayi, the uniteded state isn't doing anythihi, and the unit states saying india andnd chin nonot doing anythihi, so nobody was doing what we needed too do to reduce the thre to allll of us. so let's sp back, not point fingers d recogogze that you have t to keep working. ifife show ldership on thh issue, and we devevop technology to reece carbon essions,

we're going to h have a worldld market. and otr countries are g going to recognize that theyey can't be leleft behd. they'vgot to be with us. >> we have "time magazine's editor rick stengelhere with us. >> representativeve waxman -- >> call him chaiairman! worked hard for that tight. >>hairman. > this is myyongressman you are talng about here. >> you went from representntive scscarborougto just joe. so youou can call meme henry.y. >> i know you've snt aot of time o on making surure everybo called the approprpriate tm. that's's why you call him "crazy chairman waxn, the argument at china a and indiaake is that t united stateses and t induststalizedations over the past 25 andd 50 years havave be able to pollute whi growing thei economs. what we in india andhina want

do is esessentiay the same ing ye you're putng restriions on us for growth. should thehe u.s. act unilateray to make changes? but how do we brining chinand india along? cause they actually d d't realally wan to goo along. >> they realilize that they hav to bepart of t this effort. they know bter. they'r using that arrgument rhetoricalally ande've got to challenge it. we don't wantto hold them backk economically, buts they develop their conomy, they h hae to do in a way that regnizes that we cannonot susuive wi the kind o carbrbon inpuput that has led t gllobal warming a and climatate change the scientiststs are teelling u re consequences m mayresult frfrom all o thth. so 've got to say to them, we'r're gointo be the leaders, we're e ing to work on technology, work wh us.s. and as wee look forr oortunities to reduce caon ememsions to

the ast expensive amoounts, we n work with them to heelp them, because a lot of thearbon offsfsets we can purchase inhose countries. so we ne to keepep working a a it.. diplomacy is not somhing you sit down a at a table and work t immediately. plomacy isshowin leadehip and trtrng toget others t to g alon anando whhat's in our mututual intest. henry, talk about "the waxman rert," how congress reall work if americaca buy tt book, whahat are theyey going to learn >> i wanted to sayin this book two things. one, govevement can be a veryry powewerful for for goodor millions of eople. and d what weear allhe time is, , governme can dodoo od, and congress is completelyy inept.t. what a lot of peopple don't see that people in congressss on a bipartisan basas, are workrkingo gislatn, going through some diicult fights,passing laws

that rereally are imimrtant in peopople's lives, andoudon't ar about that. you u ways hear about the scdals. so i w went through in th book some exales. mo people ta for graranted at the can go i into a store and read thehe nutritial label and find out information about e foods that they may eat and how it i is going fect their et and their hlth. we, that was a result off a battle that thee food industry rerested bause they didn't want to put these lababson. we finally gogot th to doo it, and now p people take i i for granted. nry, can you apply thiss book to what y're in the middle of right t no which isis battleot only with health care instry but also wh some of the white hohoe who e tryingng to water d dwn yur bill.l. i meanhat's going on in rea time. talk about t tt figh andow you apply it to the "waxman reportrt >> we've got to reach compromimises inrder to gett th coalions necessary to t things done.

but it's ininterestinhow some of those fights andompromes that produce legislaon produdu good legistion, even bter thanany peopople expepected whe the legislatioiowas adooed. years from now ater we've adted the energy billnd the climate control l part oit, people will say, at was th big alll abt? we wanted too redudu america's dependence onn foign oil, we waed to reducee carbonn emissisions so that we e uldsto globalwarming, andnd we w wanteo prode newobs inin this coununy by directing our economy into deveping new technogy and using it. ii believehat willll be so successful.. rather than all ththe controrsy we heaeaabout now, people wiwil say why did it take congressss long i a also hope that we'llll hav people looking back at this year and say, why did it take lo to havhealth insurance for a all americans? the costs are unsusustainab

right nonow for mecare and medicaid. most people are fnding their insurance ratess goin up ever sile ar. and so they want something d d th president obama's takak on this ise. weave a mandate to get reform. d if cngress gets togogethe and pass this bill, peop wiwi say, that was really strange that had a situation the united states s atne time wherwe spent momore for heah care than any cuntry in the world, million to 50 million peoplple uninsurur. a lot of people wewereinsured ad found the insururce wasn't ther when thehey neededit. think whenn you lve these proboblems, pele sometimes take for granted after it'sdone. but congss can do the joband governnt must be there to make surerehat -- in bothth of these two aas wee establilish the ruls that the maets c can work and it canbenefit the amererican people. > all ight, chairmanenry

waxmanthank you so much. we apprereate yo being here. >> thanknk you. ho people read thhe book. >> the book is "thewaxman rerepo rert:how congress really works."" fascinining bo, from fascinating political lead. ii want toead s something from t "chicago tribune" this morning. let's show the "titime"agazine cover, too, in a secondndhere. it is aboutpan. steve chapman saidd in th "chica tribune," "palin is a clearr rebuttal to theeld ne of pooliti and show business for ugly people tina fey marvelleded after meetg sah palin on saturday night live. that lady i five times better lookokg than iam. an coter would be a rarabid pit bu if nott forhe hair a skirt. whenen peopl remain ardent pali fans n mattete how she performs, it is reasonable to wonder whatt they were e thinking. but thinking hasothing to do with it."

at seist? >> i think -- >> does that make y uncomfortatable? >> i guess it mamas me a littlt uncomfororble. obviously the attractiness of politicians s is prt of their mamakeup. i was readidi that op-e-ed recently about howowincredibly handsomemefk was. certaiainly thatad something to doith his popularity. >> mmom voteted for jfk becse heas good looking. >> pepeople voted for you, joe because yoyou were good looong. >> rush would alwayaycallim the breck girl. >> psident obama's a pretty good looking g guy. >> he magnic the way she is. you nt to look at them and u wawant to lk at her. >> do you agreeee with the "chicago t tribune >> i thinknk iis worthhinkin about theact that wha is compelling a about sah palin is beyo reason. she's beenen erratic, nobobo derstands why she doest go ba into these issu, and yeye people c can't sp looking at her or t tking about hher. >> you ued to attack sarah

lin vicicusly, you do anytything that isgood. >> vicious? >>nd you met her at "snl" and you came back anand you were convted. >> i wasas there theight tina fey was talklking abou her. i didn't actlly meet her.r. i was in t t studio. i just had the proximimity experience whic was eeugh. > b agai that's paa of thehe uation. ititsn't t dominant part of ththe equation. it's just one of the t things about her that is appealing. think what he doesn't t mention is the othererart, ts is kind of her tumbing her nooset the establishment, thumbingg her noe attraditional vals that compmplimentthat in a strange way. >>hat's why so many nservatives love hh. one word that you wouou pu on your cover that explaiai it thk aloloith the facact tat she's very attractive -- she's a renegade. > renegade is a ds--n comes

from both ways.. it comes from r reneging sothing, which is quitting. but it alsoeans thumng your no at establishment values, saying alalf these or the doodoe you accept, , i n't. >> i always say whenhey put that "w" on the back of your car, that't' thumbing in your no nose. a lot of people on bot sides ha really, really intense feelings aboutut this. >> thatt's true. speaking of buer ickers, wh she a appeals to are the peopleleho have that classic american bummmmziker whichch "i love m country butt i fear my vernment." c coming up, the fight agait the liban. we'll be talking a about a auth gretchen peters ababout h the key toictory in afghanisistan is to fololw the momoney. hehere's a s shock er.

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>> ststnteresting right now is t the taliban p put in roads bombmbs improvised e expsisive devices along w wh victim operateded ptetewhich victimss step on it and they goo off. prettytyucuch at is ourr main coern now since thealalan is either goneutut we believe eyey'r hiding and observing us. >> a ekek ago ,000 u.s.oops movein toelmand p pvince in

southern a ahanist to stomomp out the taliban influence ther herereo discuss this situation, an emmy-nominated jourlist, etchen peters,uthorof the new book "seds of teor how heroin is bankrolling the taliban n d al qaeda gretchen, weave a very mplex way y getti a authorsn our show. you werealking through a an airportand i saw yr book andnd i said t the titilinessf this coululd not beer. wee lunching this operationon becausically o owhat y've writtein your boo plain how the hero trade iss bankrollining al qae and the taliban. >>ell, most of us whene thinkf the talan thinink of ththese bearded warrrrrs livingn a cave somhere wring a turbanan,holy warriors fighting for islam. but i spt about fve years studyingngheir operatationst the ground levev looki at howowhey fu themselveses and they really behave much moreike a a m mafiar crimiminal street gang than holy

wawarriors they'r're hard behang like pious muslims. they're deep, deeeep i into theg trafc, human trafafcking,he talin is earnining hundds of millions of dollarars ery yea off f e opium trade.e. ththe marines moving in the are trng to cut them off om thosose veryimportant funds tha keep t insurgencyy afloat. you have alsoave in your book titl it a ao funds al l qaeda. can you explain how thth hahappens? >> absolutetely. the taliban, ghan talibanan'm talking ababt, control t drug trade andther criminal acactivity i iide afghanistan u to afghanistan's borders. from my reseaearch, where al qa and other regional and inteternatiol extremi groups come in to the equationis when the ugs are prprocessed. they reach t t afghan border they're goininto be smuggleled otr parts of the world, the middle easast, to russia and to the west, a lolotf it ends up in weststn euro. this is whe you actctuallytand

to p pfit th most.t. there e is a lot of evidence th al qaeda operatitis a helping protect drug shipmentsts as the make their way towardsds the we. >>"time" magazi's rick stenengel. >> we hahave a sty thihi week part ofcounterinsurgrgency program to tryryo ge farmersrs n helmand province and elshere in afgfgnistano convert frorom growin poppies to some other agricucultural pduct. probobm withhat seems to be that you make so much morere moy from poppies than from a aything else.. how can you actuallyly make tt transition and change e theay the cultureorks in thahat regardrd? >> well, i thinkkt isgoing to be very, very longand difficult process to shift the farmers offf popoies. hohowever,hat we're seeing i i the northern partsts of afghanistan ishat people are shiftingng aw from growing p ppy

because e there e so m many pop fields now that it's s wideread that the price is actutuly dropping. ople are shifng t t g growing whwht oromegranates orther crops because therice is dropopng. what general mccystal and the pentagon are tryiing to do is actually putut the foos off o thth farmers and on toto the trafficking groups, th cartelsl that run is. there is a huge numberf peoplpl whoore engagege in the poy trade at the agricultural end but theyey really don't'tarn th muchoney on the ballots. the re money is earnrn in th rening and expoing odrugs. what i argue in the boo is that the focus needs to be tan off the farms andut on to e traffickerers. that's where thehe real money comes into the talaliban and in the traffffking group gre >> grerehen, gen the funding

vels iolved inin the heroin ade in afafanista doesn't it pointo aarger problem thhat we have to deal th that areaea of the world, that is government corruptioioboth i afghanistatan and pastan, among vernment official >> solutely. absolululy. i always say thahat ihink the biggest t alleng in this rion is n going to be figing the taliban n and alaeda who are makiki hundrs of millions of llars a year off the drug tradade. it's actutulyoing to be fighting cocouptionbecause we don't have particularar reliable partrtners to workk with, eithn ghanistan or pakist. itit is aery big problem. for someeason nation building came a dirty w wordin washgton under the bushh adadnistraon. i believeve th onlyxit s stratey fofor afghantan and pakistan to tryry and help fter the velopment of more -- bett gornance, of rule of law. these areas whereethe marares forr examplee are moving intoto helmand have litererly not been verned in decas. ththey've st been allowed to

drt and we're seng the resu of that, laess, ungorned spaces arere magnets for extremists, for criminal gangs and that's exactly what we're eing in the bororder ares between afghanistan anand papakistan. but it is a a ugh neighborhood. i'm not suggeing this willll be easy. >> hey etche tnk you for being wit us. a very mely book. we appriate it. >> thankyou. the b book -- gretchen ters "seeds of terror." fascinatating. coming up, we'll go live to cnbc's r in s erin burnett in s, idaho.o. some of the latt job numbmbs are t.

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we're geing new weekly jobless numbers. in a terbly lame attpt to be cool, we goingto get a check on business befo the bell with cnbc erin burnett. gueswhere she is? >> sun valley. >>ou got it! look at her! >> whoa! e's glowi. >> it is beautiful out here. it is a little chilly. it is a ttle chilly, you guys. i have to be honest. mike, ias with your friend mr.

brokaw yesterday. 's been biking around and enjoying himself hostingpanels, doing all sorts of things. but the's about 200lus people out here, probably 250. u got murdoch -- >> how many ofthem, erin, are from williams colle though? that's what iant to know. are you just out there for williams college reunion? >> clearly, the most important ones. yeah that's rig. heert allen, the man that hosts this conrence every year is a williams college graduate. one of the interesng things is that the moodut here, i got to be honest with all you, has been a little bi negative. these panelsre off the record so we can't talk too many specics but clearly theood isor negative. the ceo of amican express did his first television interview with us yesterday and he said he sees no green sots at all. he sdthere's been some stability in terms of how mh people are spending o their cars, but no greenhootst all. will be much too premature to sathat. >> what does he know?

>> think that really affects thmood of everybody o here, tech guys and everything. >> let's go ov those numbers. >>jobless claims aredown starkly. before you that he as good news i' gng to but yo bubble. sorry to say that. rt of the reason for thats some of the adjustnts. auto companies were supposed to la off more people during the weekn they actuall did dung the week. the numr to look at is continuing claims, people who have been withou a job for a weekr more. that basi this cou is at a record, 6.8 million people o that basis,ontinuing jobless claims. agaithat's goingto link in what we are gating this mornie l stores. weness across the board. from lited to even cost, a diounter. i got the they got the benefit of so of the stimulus money. both of those weaker than expected. lot of people wereoming to

this confce saying arewe going to find out the second half recovery is coming. they're negative. they're negative about the mark. they think sto prices are too high. you're really looking at an economic recovery secondalf of next year. >> mike barnae, so many bad things to sort through in the american economy. the one thing we have going for us inhis country still what? >> we've gotn inrnional superstar. cnbc's erin burnett is in sun lley. williams college grad. mply the best. thank you for bng with us, erin >> thank you, guys. have a wonderf day. coming up next -- by the way, let m just say-- you admitted this off the air. i think this is pitive. i thinyou need to tel americans how yo are going to help the u.s. marines and our armed solers in afghanistan >> i nind interesting about the

poppy trade and how they're fundinal qaeda. think all of us have to seriously think of cutting o heroinse dramatically. >> will youake theommitment today, in front ofick sngel and everybody els you commit you'reog to t back on your heroin use and trade in ur suv? >> when i say cut back, i don't want to pledge a particular amount. cause this is difficult. but i am going to, week-to-week, really try to -- >> oh, you're razy! >> i'm really going to try to cut down. yeah. i mean iis the right thing to do. it's for the country >> i take it you do love this country. >> well, i me -- we'll fi out how mu lovehis country. > coming up ext, acts actor and

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all rit, here with usnow, rapper and sr of the cbs upcoming new ncis spinoff, "ncis los geles," ll cool you're probably veryervous being with t white guys like us. >> yeah, yeah, i'm terrified. terrified. >> yohave a breakin neweens ogm. >> i teameup withmastercard, we're doing this really ol coest where you get to win a pair ofjeans, lke my ll cool j jeans, then you and a frie get four tickets anywhere you wnt to go in the world. it is an opportunity for families to get together. anywhere you wto go. anywre you want to go. you'll get a free pr of eans, then you'llet four fikts t go it is a cool way of bringing

thatasual feeling bck to america and families. >> thas a cool promotion. >> it's just cool, you know. a lot of guys, like yorselves, cool white guys, wear suits every day nd, you know, yo khakis every day. maybe you to get a little more relaxed, wear some jeans and be casual. i thoht whe it came across my desk i felt like this will be something ool. >> there's been a lot said this week about michaeljackson's influence on artistshat came after hi when i think of your earlier music which had lot of romantic, softer work than it than some of the hard core rap stuff, youe e of the peopl i thin of as havi been influeed by michael perhaps in some directions? i ow you started in a church choir. you me into it from a dient place than a lot of other people in hip-hop. >> yeah. my music has always dn upfting message. to take it onetep further, n only d michaelinuence my music, but one of the songs

ere i actually sampled one of his songs i tually got a grammy f so he helped me get a grammy. so that's even beyo just doing - be influnsd by a gu this guy actually sred his talent with me and hped me get a gram. >> you're aoung guy, obviously. michael jackson in the beginning,arly '70s, ahe jackson five, ey wereeally a bridge intntoo suburbanwhwhe famililies thhat had bee -- nevr been seen in yearsrs before. how has that se the music siness grow? > it's huhue. ii think "thririll""epresents thpepeak of the music industry as a whole. ateast that old music industryy that we remember.. it's t tak o o a neworm now like my dital distributioionn network, digital tususan of artitistcoco oonle,e, that's new thining, that's a n erera. but heepepsents the peakak of that old school music b binines an yeah. i mean hee definitely broke d d dos for african-amemecacans

i wouldn't beeblbl to d do a sh like "ncis l ls s angeles" a a e inintohe homes of peoplenn middle americandnd be able to reallynfnfluce and toucuch ny people d so manyamamils unlelessee helped makake them dfrtable. >> you're in the navynow. u'u' working wthth my brotherr riris o'donnelel o on "ncis los angeleles. >> yes. ye >> that'ss c cong up in the fafl >yes. in september.. >> it will bebe over thereren t otrr etwork, ccbs and i ththkk it will be a lot o fun. itit's opportunity tooo sosomeing really cool. there will be more tenonolo. there wiwie that sameevev of drama. will haveve ttt humor. >> it is all-time jobobine months a a year. hoare you going t teep your haha in the mususic buness whe you're working veve ds a wewe on this? first of all, i'm n lger trying to competee sically. i'm nono delusision.. mm not like 24-y-yeaolold ememerngartist. yoyou owow so i really committed to the ow and the idea ofoioinghe show, it gives me chancee to

brbrg my family outut to l.a.a. be closese toothem andave them nearby.. >> stay in on place. >> yeah, 're going to say in one place and have some fun. any other bsisiss ventureres ha going, i il just ha great pepeop. >> despite y you being nenervss about beieing around oo cl whwhitgugu, you did prty goodod >> thankyou. what, ifif anythining, d di learn n odod. ene come right back. these days, people are catching on to walmart's beatab prices. unbeatable prices on groceceries. unbeatat prices on thehe this your family needs every day. no wonr r word is getting araround. save mey live better. walmt.

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> welcome acack. at have we arard today? i'm gogogg to offendd so people. mike? >> learned i i w war b beer socs than you. >>unbelieievae.e. >> bettete with no sosock > tt'slmlmos like a rtial artstsowow. >> i telellou what i i learned today. ii learned in t thend that mark dodonnl does love amemerica

he's wililli t giveppsmacack. no heroro.. >> i d don' know hoin was funding alal eded nobodydy tdd me that.t. >> w will uu make theecommitmen todatoto coletely give upp heinin >> i'm talalki abt a a reduductio---- certainly a reduction in an increase. did you learn quiuiiningppm de is nott neneceararil beneficialalo o thfuture? >>wewe, i think w all he our pa o o the w war on terroror. i am gogoin to t t -- try -- reduduce my persosona consumpti hereroin. >> i don't wantnt give a a spspifific number. i'll see wat can do. one day at a time. >> what have youou lrned today? >> i l learnhahawhen i come to "morning joe" i shououldrorobay dress upup little momore. i'm slightly underdressed.. i'm dessed in m jeans. feel comfortable. >hose aregreat, by the y.y. > tnknk you very much. thank ouou.

i i keke them. >> l leaed today thatt b becse we'rtataing more a an me about fashion here on ororng joe" ththate e shld talk abbtt what sarapapan was wearing o the cover of "time" magazine. we talked about eryrythg but. >> what washewewearg? >> khis, i think. > khakis a and a kindff a bl sweatshihirt. >> did she havee a really coolo ndana on? >> looking k ki o hip actually. >> i larard things aboutt lawrence i i'd'd rather notknow. >> are youu wilngng to join mym pledge t rereduceouou personal use oferoin also this ununtr >> let me jujust s f f the record, no. >> that is a a persosoll decisi you're mining? m not ready to followyou. does crcrkk contribute to anything? i'm trying to f fige out w that m man isovover