dylan ratitica >> mike rnacle, wh time it is? >> i'l'll tell y y w wha time. it's "morning joe." stick around fofor dylanan ratican. he's's up n nxt on msnbc. thank you. i ntnt to take o'donnell's supply anyway. goodororng, i'm lalan. th i i the "mnining meeting." topping our agedada totoda congngssss vsus the cia. ththe esident doesn't want t too get iolold. democrcrat accusisi c cia offics of ssading cgress for yes. onongoing so far too sayththe c outright lilied we'll get i into w w issusupped keeprarack of f ee cia. doesn't the ciaiaieie professionon? more on the o oued illinono govevernor blagojevicichayay enp gogoin to jail in his pay-for-play scandndal. his wife could b beonon the hook with hihim. > wh love tutuss to rder, foththat matter, why car accidentntarare scarier,hohoul be, than airirplanrashes.

e gruesome deils of a murder-suiuicidehahawas t ststee mcnair f ftatali overheh papasteek comesoo lilight of course w we knowe was shototb ss girlfriend. whwhy e we so afraid of thing we don't knowowndnd so understand, yet so comfortable with those we maybe e ououlde afraid of, contessa? >> sourream and onion chips with some dip, man. some beef jerky, some pean butter, get someaagan-dazs ice cream bars. >> does half o americahave the munchies? wildly differentviews in this country about wheth pot shoulding legal orot depending on whe you le. is there really a war on drugs in this country just certa drugs and crtain states 9: a.m., time to get to mornin the "morninmeing" begins ght now. good morning.

i'mdylan. we'll start with the c and democrats. this goes back really to the iraq i presume, ntessa, which was cia information provided back in 2003, was it good, was it bad. can th be trusted. i thinkwe're back at thi conversation. >> here's the led-up that nay pelosi came o publly and said tt the cia sled members of congress seven demoats have signed on to aetter to the cia director, leon panetta, saying ecently you testified that you determed that top cia officials havecealed signict actions from all members of congress and misled members foa number of yars fr 2001 t this week." this is when he testified ju before the house telligence committee. they say, "in light of your testimony, we ask that you publiclyrect your statent of may 15th, 2009." his statemt of may 15th said -- let me be clear, it is

not our policy or prce to mislead congress. that is against our ws and values. at's leon panett after this letter fr the democratic lawmakers, the cia agaiha issued a statement saying that the director stands by his may 15th statemt and that as the letter from these six presentatives note, it s the cia itselfthat took the initiative t notify the oversighcommittee. ofwhat, you may ask? >> yes. i'm concerned thathey are lying to us to t point that we're about to invade canada and we don'tven know it. is tt at we're talking about here? i'm not evenkidding. in other words, are th lng abt special operations in pakistan? are they lying because we're abt invade brazil? >> nancy pelosi sayshey misl -- she neve used the word ie she said "misled" congress about the way we were gettg information. were we waterboarding? >> so it is more about the technique than it the

activity. >> but the thing is when they were asked how aree getti the information, that they misled wmakers who ar charged with overseeing is kind of thing. hocan wmake make inteigent, informed, logical decisions if ty do haveth informatn at hand? >> no queson. >> the cia director said, look, it is not ourolicy or practi to do that. but thateaves open to interption if it's not you policy, author yourpractice, can it still happen. >> y have two cle issues here. one, how do you get the t be direct and transparent with the few peoplthat were pointed postixon to keep track ofthem,nd are people kpi tracof them, pelosi, etetera, doing their job. one si is are the democrats and congress trying to get off the hook for the iraq war, and the other side ofit, the cia a nch of liarso the point where we can't een trust our intelligence agency. roger crey, foer director of the national security counci roger, wenow some of th

issues. responsibilities lie? do the in other wordsif the cia is in fact providing misleadin information to those who are charged with overseeing them, how do you cre for that? >> well, dylan, i think what probably happened is the cia proved partial informatio they only tld them half the story. you got to back to 2002003. the bu administration did not believe in congressional oversight. th were not going to be as forthcoming on some of the techniques a actions the agency was taking. so part of ts is a functn of o is in power at the time. the adversarial relionship between a republican executive congress.d a democratic tt sort of thing mak you wonder why we bother making laws at all all that matrs is who is the preside and what they believ righ >> well, th is the bier sue is what is congressional oversight,hat is accountability. i ink what's important here though,eon panta volunered this informati, and that is tryio correct past mistakes does it mea that the cia lied

as policy? certainly no >> jonaan capehart, are you there? >> yes, od morning. >> how much this is a cause r real forward concern, meaning can we rely on the relationship between t charged withveeeing the centraintelligence agency going forward to the extent to which we rely on their telligce to take action, which is clearly the most relevantaspect, how much of thiss just political nonsense between different parts and all the rest of it >> well, look, i think th this is a problem. it is a problem for the democrats. i think it is a problemfor the white house because it isa distracting fight. i think that we're -- i derstand the overgh issues here, bu we've got democrats on the hillho are trying todo battle with the cia that was under the previous administration. now u have a docrat in the white house, a democrat who's running the cia andhas talked about how he's trying rerm the agency and to change things. so when you have-- you know

that saying, dylan, "never f wi someone who bs ink bythe barrel?" i would argue never have fight with an agencyhose job it is to be an expert in the black ts. >> geez! these guys lie and steal and kill for a liing. right? we p them to do it. we're like,please, canou get us the best liars and stealers and killers in the world because we want themo work for us? then when we find o that they may not have toldheho uth we run around like it's some gra shock. >> righ right. d the problem here is, no one can really talk about what the things are at they've either supposedlyied about or have done oraven't done. >> which i why i turny questi to roger, then contessa, m coming back to yo all that really matte -- forgethe politics. or who's not or any of thats nonsense. what i do care about is ether we can rely hentelligence gathering capabilitiesf this group of people wh do wat they

do to influence our military d our foreign pocy. that's all th rally matters here. right? do we have reliae intelligence that we can trust to take action ing forward to defend and loo out r ameri's interests, roger. and how much has it been compromised by perceived betrayals or lackof trust in these relationships, period. >> i think e big issue, dylan, to your point, ifhis food fight between the house democrats and the agency continues, theou're going to start to see the emergence of this risk-averse mntality on e part of a lot of agency officials. you can't aow tt to happe so leo panta is doing the right thing, defendinhis opleand defending his agency. it seems like the hse democrats want to keep refighting issues from five years ago. stupid and foolish. if it calls on our ability to ll into question going forward. ank you. speaking of liars, cheaters and stealers -- >> rod blagojevich was- he

was alreadyin trouble. now he may be big rouble. re's the deal. his former right-hand man, john harris,as pled guilty in a plea deal with prosecutors. he's turning tails and he's talking about his deal wi blagojevich. he is saying, and 'sling toestify to this -- atimes the defendant assisted blagojevich's efforts to carry out the scheme -- this is the suggesting meansby which blagojevich could secure personal benefits om himself in exchange for appointing a united states senar. conducting factu research relating to the scheme and counseli blagojevich on carrying out the scheme." he's admitting that tre was is whole run-up where blagojevich was trying to figure out, hmm, how do i personally benefit om naming a senator to replace back obama? ong many other things. and john harris' attorney ys, the will never be a bter witness an john harris. he's prepare to tl the whole trut >> like asnitch in the mafia.

ke they've got aood source he who's basicallytuing. saying this is what we were doing and how we we do it. is that fair? >> s, absotely. the question is how does rod blojevicand all of his public appearances where he insists the truth will come to light, howdoes he fight his former right-hand man saying he's a liar. >> as we deal with a country doling out trillions of dollars to our politicians to spend on roads, bridges an things we know nothing of, i go to recovergov and can't see anythingbelow $15 million. i'llust give you some, want to give some money away. stephen a. smith joins the nversation. blago m be toast, but i can't even -- i can't get a handle on whether blago is on of a kind -- on one nd he clearly is, or whether he's just the

worst of the ki of many. >> he's not the worst buthe's certainly one of a kind. when y take into account his hairdo, i don't e anybody about wi that hado. let's row that out there now. but he was toast from the very beginning. they had wiretap. they had him on tape ying certain ngs. on top of it all, he was so vement in his denials. you ow thawhen you do that with the govnment, they are going to come after you eve harder. he went on "the view," absolutely embarrasd himself. he been embrassing himse with everythg that hesaid. sarday night live did a st on hi absolutely hysterical. now you've got his former chief of sta turning ainst him. literay talking about how, you owwhen he approached the vernor and said, "you know, is non-profit organization, this is a situation yoould earn $200,000 to $30000 a ye, and the governor replied, "is thatall?" that falls in line with

everything they're saying they have on tape with regard to ts man and now thean has reached a plea agrnt, the man has been toastince day one. >> jonathan, you know who is the big winner in all of this? >> wh >> patrk fitzgerald. when he arrested blagojevi and put o his complaint, w on the itial board, aot of people were thinking where's the "the" there. why didt take so lng in going from the arrest to th formal indictment or complat. i'm soy, i'm not a lawyer so i can'come up with all e lio. but by gettinjo harris to cop this ple and to basically still all of the beans, he mak it clear that patrick fitzgerald was right to do what he did, to arrest blagojevich when hedid. because remember, he said that it was blagojevich was trying to auction off e senate seat that caused hto jumpinto action. >> i guess contextually,

coessa, you and jonathan as well, what isniqueness of agojevich, beyond his haio and the commonaly of blagojich in terms of his morals and howe conducts business as a polician? >> so youwant to indict all politicians -- >> i don't want to indict all politicians. it's n that want to indict al piticians, it's that i don't derstand whyoliticians refuse todopt 21 century technology. they're using a19th centy model for government in 21st century sociat a time when there is so much evince o political misdeed, thatat the very least, why would y not accept some transparency when at ast somef you- go ahead. >> technology is notgoing to keep policians from bein corrt. this is an age-old ory. wer corruption. it doesn't matter what kind of tools u implement. >> n i ge you an example? if we usehe same thnology that they have availableat goog or boeing or ibm or any ofhe major corporatio in this world who have incredible capabilities, and we basically

tagged every penny th came in to t feral government, into state governments, into municipal governments, tagged evy penny that le federal governments, let me finis left state governments, lft municipal governments -- >> right, i get the point. >>- then we started analyzing that dat as they do on wall street, evy day, for outliars, for exorbitant spend. all of a sudden, why a we spending$500,000 on computer toner the middle of tes and there's nobodythere? wait a minute. bernie madoff -- you'r making the poi. i get the point. >> i don't know if i hae. my poi is this -- knong what we know out politicians' p propensity to steal, you're saying they're going to seal anyway so bother locking the or. i'm sayi kwing propensities like mr. blagojevich's exist, why would we as taxpayers in this country not adopt the potentl of every security measuravailable, including all of the modern technology that exis to track money when

know that the people we sendg the money o will do everything they can to steal, misuset and redirt it. >> yes,are you right. e american people should dendn a feral, state and local level- >> why do have to ma the case for that? >> you should, but you're tainabout starting a revolution. because you're king government to do something tat it hasn't done. aski it to, in a lot of caveses, be moreccountable than it's ever been. that would require for people, for citizens,or voters, elt ople whohave that reform-minded agda to do wt you want to do. talking about it isn't goi t make it ppen. >> i agree but the beginning is the understaing that we even have the capability for ogle for government, that unlik even 10 or 15 yea ago where what i'm discussing is not even possible, at least now itcould be done. this is a two-houreeting and the meg's every day.

i'llhut up. we'll take a break, we'll come back stephen and contessa, sy, jonathan's staying. a bunch of oth folks coming through here. we'll come bk on the cia. then marijuan legalization conversation sti to come at "the meeting." are you prolegalization? >> yeah. >> wait until 10:00. i'm with you. barry mccaffrey is going to tel u, no, no. we're back right after this. hi, may i help youou? yeah, i'm looking r car insurance that isn't going to break the bank. yorere ithe right place. on progressive gives yoyothe option name your price. re. a price gun? mm-hmm. so, i tell you wh iant to pay. and we build a policyy to fit your budget. that's cool. uh... [ gun beeps ] [ laughs ] fe so empowered. power to the peoeople! ha ha! yeah! the option to name your price -- new and only froroprogreive. llr click today.

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welcome back to t the "rnrng meeting.g." talking ststmumulu joe bidenen,r cece psident, on a littltlbibit of a t tourrorod the countntry ststarng in ohio t thimorning pounding thehe tab o o the imulus spend. hel then be in upstate newew york, saratogaacounty, horse

rang territory. authoror of "bailout naon" a a fine boook, i is here. bill flecnsnsin, alsonn author, "genensp bube.e. at's a whwhee oth coconvsation. bibi's's sting insesetle patiently gazing inn a a room memeere with aakeaackound anan a carara but looks chararmings s l t-out. let's talkhio for o cocod. jobibidechose thevenue. stimulus inn theory is to creat jobs and create economicic activity, rarais t the tax reve, reduces unemoyoynt. everybody's hahay,y, pple are in their homes,s, w we eatfofood ad we're merry,ee place horshoho in thebackyard. but look at d dta inohio,hehe ememoyment rate continues s to riri i in that state andnd you' notice again at t t bobott o of ththat chart,t, i kw these graphics are kind of trkyky, basically the point t is may's unemploymement at aewew highgh it is more than a fu percentage point abeehe naonal average inohi unployment remains problem inin ohio.o.

thatat m mypoint. x renunues which a a reflectionon oececonic activiti in that atate,re people making more meyey, is there iome tax revenue comiming , all those sorts of fafacrs. well, no. % below wh they were guguri they would be atat.. >> tt't' the national tory. see that inin ery state in e nnatn.n. >> tax revenues are lower, unemployment is hiher. > iis a huge m mveveor people to get theirir h hom reassessedo ththr r prerty taxes go down. >> if you're goinggto stimulala an economy and t the objective totoaise tax revenuefofor vernment services, reduce ununemoyment and raise thatt t t revenue throughhcoconoc activity, the ststimusus,y that mease,e,barry, bibil jonathan, stepephe n not wowoining. >> we,, so farar w wee on deoyed 7% % of t money. i thkkhere was actually a conscious effort to say hey, this isn't goioi to beixed any time soon. we're nottetettiheheerading from t the administration so th spspre it out over tw years t rt of push in an ongoing weakakssss. they could havave ffro-l-load i,

gone for the gold. and ifotothi happens six months lar,r, thingsrere still bababecause weontinue to see foreclosures. thther was stst t mortgage pmi company -- >> isn't thihi just as muchchf risk, if i just put little trickle, little tricklkle -- >> yes, absolutely. >> - -- n notng hhpepens >> it't's damned ifou dodo damnd if you don't.t. do you t towow a hailmary, drop the bomb all a at oonc or s seaead it out?? i t thi they are s swly r rping itit u >> bill? have we stimulalate t the econoy properly in your pipion? >> wel, 's'sery tckytoto say titimute the econonom properly," becauau t theeason we're in this mmess, part of i isis bauause of e excs stimulus prproveded b the federal reserv and the buleles that were crcrted and allhat. > tououghhe cheapmoney. > yeahah. y y look at restaurant industry, eveverodody can see restaurants going out t of businessss wrere ty lilive. that's's vyynfortunate foror those e comnini. but thee ones that are left tha suive can do better. that's what happens in capitalism. e e stng survive andnd t weak away.

wewe'r i in this gigantic meses brought to us b too much ststimul.. if we willy-nilly apply sttimuss it just created a lngngerg dedebt look at the auto companies. you could argue i ifonone went away, the ones who wowoulbebe lt woululbebe vibrant, tosos woror couldooteially go toanother inindury down the roroa so allllof these attempts to sp th pain iededialy in alot of cases s ju p prong it and just make it look ffffert. th c cnot change the oococome, theyey canusus alterer the pathd in a lot o cases ththey make it worse. a a i oong bill, barry, jonaththan, epepn, in thinkingn that there is no betterer exam ofhat than the banks? in oththerorords we haha a horribiblyeehad babas, badly mamageged, created agile inststututio, they put ththselves in a faililed situation, taking riskss theyey couldn't handle,hehe paid themselves h hanomely for decades, when theyey couldn't ndndlehe risk they s suld have collapsed in a nrmal cpipilist stem and now the taxpayer eps in. > i feel li i'm inin c czyzy

placace. >> you're e not a a cra p pce. you'rere i j jap which happened years ago. they went inn a dedece-long recession.n. bill is right, you takehehese bad cocoananie -- h hd on onee secocod.d. isisoll on obama in ohio spspecicical. we talkekeababou itaaga. look at whwhere stimulus is working at home in your own state? look at whaha y you statete's unemployment rara is, wha your state's tataxx revenues s lookl. that will give you very good indication a atotohether the economy is gettingtronger or weaker in your stata for obvious reasonon i show you the ohio data. the ohio popollin da on obobma, stands to reason, jonathanan capehaha, , if they can't figee out a morereffective way t to d this, if they don't revise perhaps their theorynn allowing too big to f filil onupporting ililed institutionsnsrrif they don't come up th some other wa to cre work, psiside obama'a'popoll n numbss will ntinue to go down. >> lloo the presididt t an the adadmiststraon have to findd a way togetthis stimulus money

ouout th d dr ahohole lot f fst th it's going. i mean righttnow, asit was said befofore i it' trickling t.t. i rere ithe papers t tss morng g ere they s, as time goes on, mrere and mo of the money wiwillgogo out, wchcheads me to ththk,k, is the current stimulus packaka,, is it realll failing?g? or have weototeen theull impact of yet?t? and thenen - -- i i would s we clelear havevett bcause they havaven't enentll themoney. whatatboboutbill's point th stimulating an e econo t tt's fafalsy propping u u failed businessssestoto sphen a. smith's point from a a c cple o ys ago,, which iss perpetuatiti failed business s as american momol, d doo america, effectively. i don't think it dms america. > iotothewords, doesn't helpp this counyy toerpetuate giant busineneeses tt have failed. >> separate the teeeehings we're doing, so ririgh some wrong. propping up b busesesses that

shshldld gout of ususess? absolutely wrong. going foror another c cret bing? you can't drinkkourself sober. you can't get ridd of excess lelerarageith more vevege. buththeax cuts thatat we've seseen that's offsettiti t the big rise in oill prices and meme of thes ovel-ready p pblblicorks problems, thatat llll hea and imimpa. they got 1 1 o of 3ght. l let just calltt like wewe see i at leaeast i it a aeaearshus fa that t th administration aeaea inept. thererisisno way to sliceit. unployment rate keeps elevating. th reality is,heheyou have the vice presidentnt cming out talkingg autut "we missread the ononom" you've g got r rpublicas ying "how i i god's name uld thth ve happened? we were all inhe office wi u.u. we were trying to d disade you omomoing the things that yove dodo,","hen cononsidengng the fctct that the unemployment rate keeps escalating, businesses continue toto ruggle, people areunemoyoy, et teteraet cetera. u've got the presisident coming out saying that therers nothing

that he would do ffffently and the democratic parar as a whole do n neeee him on theaa papageitith one anotherer right. eyey'r struggling too run this country. >> eeph, that's going do it. i loveve t p pason, i love the point. i ia good thing it is a two-hourur meengngnd it is a good thing we he it every day. bill, ththk k you. sorry i didn't getts much timim with you as s i ha's's have lid. barry, same tyou. stephen, i'meeeepi you. nathan, you're bebeaiful, i i keeping g yyou t's keep goiing, straight aadad t the "rnrng meeting," back to blagojevichand my nversation from eaier, what rerefos must the amererican tataxper demand on the wayour vernment functionstoto prevent politicianans keke agojevich to so esisily getnn to the papay-r-play business. we're back forlelellyanandad enenforcenenand investigations in this country, soomethgg we seen to o veve lt sight of. i never thought it could happen to me...

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welcome back. we'll take a break from thehe blago and cia, what else is going on? >> there is biguzz today over the philadelphihistory. a day schoolctuall paid $1,90000 to the valley swim cam to lethe kids thahat go to theh day school goo and swim. once a weekek. apparently they gogo tthe valley im school a and overheardd comments aboututhe col of ththeir skin, something to o th nature of f "why are all these black children hehere?" e kids themselves as so asas they gogotn the pool, the white kids startedd g getting o. all l of a sudn the swim club sa we'll refund ur money but you're no loer welcome hehere. >> it isbvious it is raci. at least in that rrative. right? >> the statementntas that they were affraid that there were kid that would changehe complexion d aosphere of the club. ty don't wanan bck kids in e pool! it's cry. >> senator arlenpecter is

instigating. > next, wait unl you see th video. th is a crazy video of babies on roller kates. how great is th? lolook they'r're babies onon skates. h he nothing ellse t toay about it. it is a c cmemercl f fvivian water. all y.y. >> yoveve g racisisinin americ thegege ofof and roller skating baeses. >> range. it's called d rarang we have range. >>hank god for the "morning meing." we're back wh a conversation on not only gvernment reform but legalizing marijuana and why yoshould be more aaid after car crash for that matter -- or mayb a dancing by. we'll tauk talk fe in americ marijuana, stimulus in america a the "morng meeting". ♪ ooh, yeah

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welcome back. i'm dylan. nice to see you, 9:30 in the east, 6:3 in the west. topping our agenda -- one quarter the way through today's meeting.

former chieff staff copsa plea, says former illinois governor tried toash in on pay-to-play. this is your turncoat,if you will. they claim ts will lockr. blotch up, his wife, too. a public viewing meanwhile starts next hour for forr nfl quterback steve mcnair. police confirming it w indeed a urder-suicide. fear in america. are we not afraid of things that are right next to us judging ourjudge. analysisf supreme court nominee son somayor shows heopinions have shown suprt for criminal defendants, why is there aolitical bias on the supreme court and why aren't the biases of our country supposed to be represented in congss, notur court openg bell getting under way on wall street. the street very resilient, holding steady this morningn the face of weaker than expected

jobs numbs. integrity or stability in the financial markets as they hang arou that 8000 marker. back to business here, starting with blago and the blago conversation. i nt to bring a few folks . barry, how you doing? bill gin, former assistant director the fbi in w york, jonathan capehart, i think steven a. ith -- stephen's taki a break. befo i get o to lynnnd bill, you, barry, think that you want to defend in blajevich. >> iwish i was his attory. i would basically come forward and say to the crt and to the jury, this is the only honest polician there is. put a senate seat up for sale. rest of the senate has br been bought and sod. if you lk at the lobbying

dollars, look at ho much money wall street antheig ban have spe thwarting any type of real regulato reform acrs the board. the enate's been bought a sold. he's just a little more forward-lookg. he says senato have already been sold, i'm going to ste out and sell the se. >>ith lynn and jonathan, at you say,lynn, blagojevich acted in the most honest of politicians inhat he's explicit in the very least abo the valueof his power? >> ni try. esn't work. buyou do t - here's the point. campaign fund-rsing is athe crux of a lotf whatwe are talkin about. explicit o implicit corruptn. >> o. now in the case of sted governor blagojevich, hower, with fund-raisingut he was ng also looking for jobs for himself and his wife. >>e took it a little too far. but it goes back tohat

having, jonathan, which is, is congress working for those who buy -- fund them to their offices, and are tey willing to look after those who bankro hem in the banking industries, whatever, the unions, there are a lot of people who supply money, and onkss, and are they willing to sell everyone else in america effectively down the ad in the iterests of those who nkll them? i recognize that a very extreme characterization on my part. do i it to provoke you. very reme, but there a ring of truth to it obviously, otherwise we wouldn't be hang this conversation. obviously folks likeenators feingold and mccain wouldn't be trying to refor campaign finance laws. you refm finance law it riddled with holes and people can get arod wtever limits therare. >>he's the problem. i want to get bl gavin in here. i fe like when we have these

convsations about government reform, whether it is goog for government, tracng all the money comingin, gg out, campgn finance reorm, pick all the systemic reforms that so many peoplwould love t see t you r see happen in congress doesn't happen because the only people who don't want to do it are the people with the power to make that change, which is the congress, bill. at's your perspective on t systems of our government today and ho they serve ? >> well, there's no doubt that a couple of thgs involved here. three things realy. it is th legislature has to really ena some laws. inost states they have them but they need to strethen, tighten up some of laws they have to address public corrtion. number two, the law enforcement has todo thr job. every time you reador hear about publ corruption you see the fbi involved. we need notthat t local government, local lw enforcement doe't get involved, buey need to take a greater role in these things. last, but not lea, and absolutely theost essential

part is the vot themsves. thepathy of the vor, only vote for people who things for themnd not look at the greateod, we ha to change that mindset. >> that culture of understanding, lynn, that constant selconsumption, constant selgratification as value sstem politically is leading us into aery dgerous place if you lok at what has happened with the banks, iyou look at where we are with the car companies cabe if you look athere california is as a state today, $26 billio in the hole lgely from political expedien. does anybody in this conversation, whether is you, lynn, barry, anybody else, thi any of these eventsave resonated with vots the point at they get that? >> people know their pocketbooks ar hurting and their ho pric have fallen, but there is the systemic issue there i think we need to go backnd separate from these bigger iues that theris a tolence of corruption. what happens wt ppened with governor blagojechis he was

too corrupt and he had a scheme to ll obama's sena seat that was too compliced. that's we gotcaught. if he had just done it perhaps a little more quietly he might ve gotten ay with some of the scheme that he had. >> t barr's point, he was just -- heidn't ite play by the rules. he overreached. >> hshould have been just as corrupt as theest of them. >> t point is -- quick point i'm making he though ithat there has been, unfortunately, in t illinois political environment too much of an acptance of a culture of political corruion. whether or notou could take thatnd make that into the micropolicy arnt you're making, i don't thk i agree with you on that because there is a lot more into it havingo do with ju a failur of all the warnings systs in our economy. you can't just pretend it isn't happening. i want to go back to what bi gracavin's point, we need moe

enforcement. congress controls the nding forenforcement. if you look ath happens on wall street, they cu all the ite-collar crime investigation funding to pursue terrorism they cut the money flow to any of the enforcement agencies, jonathan. we can talk all day about th rules exist andwe need enforcement, but ifhe people with the checkbookon't write the check for the enforcement, it's nonsense. >> is at for me? that's for you, jonathan. >> yes, you make very good point. i think bill gavin raised very odssues whehe first talk, when he tal about the three levels of flure here. i thin one of the most glarin ones in the blojevich selling ofhe senate seat case is the legislature. the reason why blagojevich had the opportunity to sell this seatas because he has the power to appoint obama's replacement. w that couldll be taken away from him if the legislature had

the courage of its convictions in the ginning tollow for special elections. ke it out of the hds of the governor and it in the hands of the people and allow them to vote -- >> lynn, goahead. >> jonathan, thas another issue though. because no onet the time that s happening thought that he wagoing to actually auction ofthe senate seat. that had to do more with litica conversaon, corrupt litical conversation. quickly, peoe will fin a way. if th want to scheme, the is a t of ways to do that. maybe you need a wiretap i every oe. >> why not? if you're runningor public office, wh i don't -- thast estion that i don't understand, as we ge awa billionsf dollars of american taxpayer money to these ates in stimul, kning that the way tse states are run and the level of corruption that exists, some are well run, some are not, why would we node usehe leverage of the chebook to say

you want stimulu money, or whatever it is, this is theew standard by which a new standard of transpency, new standard of operation that you as a state must adhere to. >> the single bst thing the obama administration has de to date is ta.gov. they're putting l these data feeds in, they include ending, how the money is beingused. ijust the tip the icerg nap needs to go a whole lot further. once it's an open sour, once you n google where evyime isspent, y will see a lot less of this corruption. >> there'srganizions out the mobilizing thousas of tizens to go lookt this data noth it's publicly avlable, go in their communities and chk out what's going on. that will be the most interesting experiment t see where this transparencyeads us. >> all right. thk you so much, bill, lynn, barry, tha you. jonathan, i think thank you. lots me coming . ephen a. smith is back. we're still talking marijuana legalition. we'll come bk on the cia versus the democrats, democts versushe cia.

should we care about th? again only in my opinion, if it affects future feign poli. whmplts lo turns to murder. ain the steve mcnair aga. trag to say the least. ink of all the time we spendorrying about serial killers in pla crasheshen unfortately vio crime lis as close to home as this situation shows. decisions,s,ecisions.

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> contessa, what e else is gg on h he ifif >> president obamama dylan, and his g-8 cocoteterpts in ilyly

fosing on climatehahae and the economy toy.y. thth g gro has washington, d.c. t topffffials inhehe oma aministration exexprsing concern about w wheer n1 could cause c caoaos this aumnmn. you want too keep right here on msnbcbc halth and human servicesecectary kathleleen sebelius will be on noon. "meet the press" w whh davavid grgrory, senators john mcmcca on alalth care, senator sosotayayer coconfmation hearing starts monday. yoyou nn check your local stings. enigign adadmi he used h mistress for plplearere inin letter writtenby ensign riringis extramarital affair,

the senatorr b bmes msmsel writes,, i ias completely seselfentered and only thinknkg ofmyself. i usedouou for myy o pleasure, plnn a asimple. itit w wrong. it was a sin. >> oh, lolord keep it to yourself, man. just go do yr jojo i i dot want to hearar about th. >> i'm n sure hehe anticipated this letterououlde public. dated 200008, published by the s vegas sun. he admitted hdidi have a sinful trtramital affaiai in 07-2008. aa s. . >> oh, lord. bring back the dancing baby. all right. we're going to take a break. we'll go to the break room. the's the dancncin baby. thank you so much. we'l'llnjnj ththat. wewe'lgo out too l.,alk too cortneney hazlet for a cond. th back on sotomayer andd marijuana legalizaon in america. is thatheay to rescue

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disheveved. couourtney hazlzlet, you' herere u have michael l jackson's body herere with you. >t's under the desk. >> i'msure it is.

>> the casket, righ >> here is the thing, miichael jackson's body,we all assssumed it w was in th casast at that morial service. never s it l leave the stapl nter. m prey sure he's no buried under the ststaples center. thers a lot of talkk about the body going to neveand. this i isthe al. youu can't bu a body on pivate property but you can file an application to make your private property a private cemetery. it's n possible but f a family asas disorgazed as the jajacksons itwill b b tougugh. you need a $5,000 cashsh ntribution. >> reipts for what. everything you've spent. >>he person f fing tis plication has to hve ve yearof receipts p pving what th fininances are, not for thth personou're t trying to enter. that pern needss to coontribu $35,000 to theendowment care fund of lifornia and a$50,000 fidelity bond.d. so it's goingto take a a lot of cash, a lt of ororganizati.

thatat only part of what's required. wever once you get thatt in, the statat can tuurn it arouou pretty ququickly. so it' something we're allllon the eded of r at. >> i can s see you are. >>hank you. >> sllahead, cia versus democrs, can we rely on their intelligence to support our security going forward? do we have the r rght system in place to monitorhe cia? 'll have that conversation. th, of course, supreme c court nominee sonia somayer. her past r rulingso. they give us a a indication of herer politicacal biases and why are therepolitical bies on the preme urt. i thoht that was meant forr coress. whos i in charge ofocial vavaes. anyway, i'll havave that conversatition cominup. ♪ well l i s shping for a new car, ♪

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welcome back. halfway through"the meeting" second hour lookgood.

i ha a bia od to see you. congress versus cia. proper monitoring, proper intellence? younow the debate. is this just a pisng match for the past or a problem for the future? we'll havehat problem in a second. supremurt slant. whis it congress doesn't seem to fulfill its duties about representing amecan social valuest least in tes of actually liv them? look to our friends on the moral high ground in southarolina and elsewhere. and t the supreme court stuck with all these soci biases. anyway, it confuses me. we'll have the conversation coming up. thenhen love rns to murder. 're learning very gruesome tails behind t fears we have, plane crashes, serialkillers, sharks, lightning strikes. when reality lives at home. we knowthis accidents ppen inhe car on the way to the grory store.

fear in america. are there two america speaking out, one high and one not? is the way to save california to legaze marijuana? we'll have the conversation. it's a ho debate to saythe let. twenty staes have effectively decriminalized the drug. thirty, including new rk, far from it. is there really a war on drugs in this countryor onlyertain drugs in the crosshairs. 10:00 a.m. we getack to work. begin with the conversationin c. is this a mch from the past or problem for the future is the question that occurs to me. mikens the meetingor the first time because i'm a fan of hiat work. mike, it's nice to s you. what'soing on? >> it could be either of those things you mentione let's take you back a couple of months. nancpelosi dropped a bomb in a press dmpbs. she was under fire about wt she knew out the practice of waterboarding when sheas on e house intelligence committee back i 2003. she said essentially that the cia had lied to her and tey lie to her all theime, that they

didn't tl her waterboarding was being carried out. st forward to this wee republicans in t interim have made a big issue of at using motions on the floor to draw attention to nancy pelosi's statemt. john boehner calling onher to come up with evidenc offer st saying when she was saying and start apologizg to the cia. this week an intelligence bill on t floor. nancy pelosi and mocrats have inserted a ovisionnto that that would require cia t brief 40 memrs o congress wheneve they ta these activities overseas. white house threatened to veto. this is her interetation of let aers came t. i'moing to read a letr send by a group of democratf the intelligence committ. to panetta. may 16th,2009, you stated the following. let be clear, it is not our poli or practice to mislead congress. recently you testified toia official have concealed significant actions fr all members of congress.

inight of your testimony, we askhat you pubcly correct your statement. that's another bombshell here. publicans see this as a red herring try to dw atteion away from the facthe president hreatening to vet the mocrat's bill to more transparency to the 40 pebs of congress toe bried. tryingo draw attention away frompelosi's answer inhe answered question. here is the c response to that letter. rector panetta stand by his may 15 atement. it i not the poly or practice of cia to mislead congress. this agen and directorbelieve it ivil to keep fully and currently informed. director panetta 's actions back that up. a g fight here. >> we d the conversation an hour ago ger.

specific to the future,what's the quality othe relationship between the people in the congress of the unid states and the inlligence community da and how relble is that relationship toerve the interest of the american people? i don't kn if anybody cares beyondhatquite onestly. ippose someolks do. the big one is can we trust this relationip to serve the people? >> well, dylan the lationip is a little corrosive right now because all the attention to waterboarding and enhanced inrrogation. ny peoe in the cia believe, here weo ai the 1970s all over again. it's impornt the white house panetta dend the rank and file in the agency, the ca officers. whetheyou believe in the poli they believed they had whithoe andustice department local oversight. we look at now, let's lok forward. that's what director panetta said, tt should be the judgment, how go forward.

>> do you have a sense of t president's view of how to make eest relationship wo going forward? not wh the democrats that asked him in proving or supporting their desire to have more access, mo transpency he cia, which as somebody was into trsparency, i could see why you woun't want to have it in your spook agency. >> the president has been etty clear with his displeasure of in.t provision the demrats put lo, this is a problem, a big problem. the president need to have the a i line, have leon panetta there to reform the agency behind the scenes, publicly defend the agency, defend the agents from the attacks coming om democrats on capitol hi. >> but isounds like the defense, jonat if i unrsnd it correctly, is that the cia was in line bause they

re inli in a sens folling the bush administrati saying it's okay to keep it cool, you don't have to talk about everhing you're dog. theyid it and now they are punished by th next adnistration or opposing party forollowing the adership. >> not t leadership thopsing partyhey are getting hammered by. now you have democratsn the hill vers demoat leader of the c whose job it is to lead tt agency. leading that agency mans defending it whe it's attacked by politians. the idea 40 members ofongress are briefed is -- >> we'll s it on twitter on the weend. >> lawmakers that wro the er to the senate and id, he take it back, what you said, th isn't the picy or practice of thecia. what were they reay trigo accomplish? the hubbub or nancy pelosi statement whether the cia misled

meers of congress had died down. if thi is really about defending nancy pelosi, my estion would be what did they hope to get out o this? >> right. roger,'ll let you go after is question. if thereas one thingou would advise the president to do, to as quickly as possible g us a tas to reestablish a confidence betweenhemerican people, the american congress, and our intelligence agency, if only because w are spending, have spent and will end in the future vast fortunes a more importantly now are putting american lives at risk today and in t future o t basis of this relationship? >> wellish the first thing you should do is veto iternational authorization bill. e very idf sbelg everyone on the committee is luancy. but the bigger issue here, it mes down to whi house leaderip, dylan. if t president leads, if he engages senior membersf congress and say weant cia to be proae, risk taki,e

want to make sure they don't make the same mtake twice. to the extent they do ings in thdefense of our country and sometimes screw up, we will accept that, assunghey never do it again. we're going to keep you fully formed. you're goi to keep up your end of the bargain, which i keep your mouth shut and get out of this petty schoolyard he said she said over at happened six years ago. >> thank you, roger. enjoyour day. we'll keerybody else in the conversation. i wanto switch, though, from the cia to theupreme court. what's going on here? >> we knowjudge soniatomayer has hearings monday for her confirmation. "the washingtopost" has analyz now 46 of the cases thisshe rd on in theecd ciuit. the analysis finds that h opinions do show suppo for criminal rights tough scepticism about cporations and se sympathy in discrimination cases. in other words,he's taking a pretty middle the road, beral judge's stance. th analysis finds her ruling

de with liberal pints of view 59% o the ti in some cas she y overstep her role a bit. question, how she' using her time delving in the minuti of the cases. >> one of the few very widely foowed and appropriately so supreme courtchers effectively, ctessa stays with us,onathan is hee. tom,hat i your snse of the politicizaon-- the politics of her specific to otherupreme court nominees. in other words, the analysis of her political bias any more suen or any more obvious than it was wit a cservative judge anjudges before in general. >> whever the pdent nominates somebody the days, there are ople lined up at the door to attack them, no matt what the views a, happened

john roberts, happened to alito. >> foundourselves in conversation where congrs was supposed to representcurrent social values, representatio of amica. they a elect by americans to represent the body of law for america. cause they hate making politilly any 51-49 decisions they consntly abcate their to represent the people in these decisions and force the supreme court, which should be more of a utility of service. these are the ws, this is how we make choices. all of a sudden the cou becomes the venue fo social policy when it should be t again, i hate to be ming back to criticize the congress but there's aong list to criticize them and this is justne of em >> yes, you' absolutely right. remember, there's a tape of judge sotomayer few yrs back where she sa, let's face it, we makeolicy from the bench.

this isideotape and tere's trble for ths. that gets to the point you're making. unticongress finds the courage to make the real tou decisions, you know, at of cases are goi to be fought -- a loof these issues will be foug in the court starting at the cal lel and all the way up to the supreme court. you're absolutely right. >> one second. tom, when did we switch? when did g from having a congress -- did we ever hav a congress forced by virtue of some form of e politil system or intensitof the voter base, i don't know what it may have been where a culture ere politicians are funded by special interest represent the special interest and expense the bance of the decision, difficult decisions, hoers, pot, gay arriage, right, they don't want to dl with, ey push to a pane of nine now instead of a few hundred people representing america, we

ve nine people ving 5-4 votes everybody is freaking out abouwho is going to get i there and be one of thosee people. supreme court is getting more powerful. two problems going on. one congress writes a lot of vague laws and the jges have to figure outnd end up making the law. sometis the congressind of passes the buck on the really hard decisions, onesthat are obvious -- >> sometimes. >> every once in ahile they get it right. the justices do find themselves in a difcult find, but let's look at is the death penalty constitutional, when can you have it? en can you rerict abortio is te right to gay marriage? it's in the constitutio somewhere hidden in there, the justices haveo do their st to findthe answer. >>air enough. aren'tho debate -- stephen, are you around? >> i'm right her >> would you ratr have a panel of nine peop deciding how you live and howour falyiv socially and marriag rights,

all the things weknow, hookers, pot, anday marriage, or would you ther elect politicians and force them to represent your interest. >> no, no, no. i'm not leaving anything to the politicians. let's gethatutf the way right now. >> you may not have a choice who is going to put out t fire, pick up the garbage? clearly they don't. they create mor garbagethan they pck up. let's be nest about it. in the case of judge sotomayer. the bottom line is very, very simple. e's been on theederal bench for 17 years. theyalk about her qualifications a how impeccable they are. shs clearly qualified. when you tal about the issuef subjectivi that all comes into plac with any supreme court nominee. we debated clarence thomas. we had ople vehemently agains him. >> why do not diminish the subjectivity of the courts and rern the subctivity to the halls of debate that we built. >> hold it dylan. that like asking you not to

have an opin stop it. everybody has an opion. if you're a human ing there's subjectivity that kicks io gear. you can't -- ion't care if it'supreme court nominee, t president. >> guilty as charged. go ahead, jonathan. >> dyl, sometimes, tugh, cause ngress won'to the right thing an won't step in, the courtsdo have to make congress, make the american people do the rht thing en wh they are not ready. wait. what i'm thinking of in the civil rights movement. rember, if you had left civil rights f african-americans, i you were to l it up to the voting public in the south, it nevewould have happened. you needed the courts to step in so to a certain tent where congress doesn't have the courage congress doesn'thave the backbone to do theight thing, you do need to have those nine people on theourt to put the country in the right direction. >> a system to force congress to get the backbone tha they uld ner --an nature suggests absent forcing peop running our congress to have abackbone,

they will never have a ckbone. they will be blagojevich-like, they wille manipulative. >> dsn't make any sense you' going to force someone to have a babone? >> ocourse my job is to host a tv show. i don't show u for my job or e my job to get personal benefits, then philffin who runs ts place will say, dylan, what are you doing? you're fired. our congress, who we py a third of our salary to toun her energy, defse, social issues, we pay so much money, more than anythinge pay to anying else to these peop, at the least, why are we not demanding a stronger syem of accountability f everying these people do when they clearly abdicated their -- it's not that i don't have an opinion. i know everybody has an opinion. bui also kow the peop we areaying to ministrate are

and indicatingheir duty andt comesat ourexpense. >> that bottom line is we don't really trust our officials. they show us every day whye have reasonso be cynica about them. >> we need to demand systemic change. >> you can rely on a stem -- when youlook at the urts, they have something to lean on other than their own subjectivity that isthe law. a politician- with a politician, theyan s there d engage in spin control and spin doctoring on a very, very highevel and that's the that's why you have to have the courts, a legal system in place thatorces you and obliges you too what's right according to what's tangible to lean on. >> i'm sitting there listening to you a enjoying once again the beautiful wor that emer from your mouth,steven and looking at philelphia behind your head and thinking about our foundi fathers i america the great and made me happy.

maybe we should sing our way out here thank you very much tom for your time. the capol building is beautiful. that's all i want. >> you want the americaneople to dtheir job. >> that's all i' sayi. >> i hear you. >> didn't he lo like a foding far? although, i n't think they let black men be a founding father. you're the wrg color. they wouldave thrown a fit. >> youe the wrongcolor. >> i'm definitely th wrong color, y're right abouttt. >> but the right for"morning meeting." all the things we get worked up out, planecrashes, serl killers, cme in america? >> befraid of you, your car, don't go to the grocery store, stayn the sofa. the mcnair tragedy an example,

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all right. welcome bk. bebefowe get intnto w wha you ould be afraiaid ofnd whatt y should and whheher i should be afraid of coessa or not. >>hehey separatemed. >> what'soing on?n? >> there'snew d daiailsbout steve maair publicc ururr. his pupubl v vieng begegss toda for r thee nfl qrterback steve mcnair, theheictim of a murder-s-scicide they areononrming hhe, a mamaieied y, faath o ofour, otot foour times by his 20-year-old girlfrieie,,ahel kazemi. she toto fends she was distraught aboutoone an bebeliedede was havingng a seco affairir. >> this is favorite aspspec she's thth misstrs,s, comfortab as t the misisesess. she finds t tere's a sececo mistress and that shsheon't have. >> i knknow ththeris the allegationouout

there.e. bu a als that d she hadeen pued oer forrunk ivivin a aarently didn't come talk to her wen she washandcuffefed, pu in the b ba of the squad car. he called andsaid, he this the same copop tt a arerest me for drununk drivingng, d don sa anything. shshe laughed, saidid you'rere spspkekerpne. there e is lot of ththin she cocoulbe psps about b friends said she was upetet about money >> this is the question. u u to us about the serial ller a few dayays ago.o. >> yes. > pne crh.h. a hard time planee crash, flyin out of the cockpit,, horrible. >> said people weren'tt gngng t go aanyerer >> steveven smith, are y y there? > i here. >>jeff, a aryou joiningthth conversation? >> i'm right ere. >> h he' our hdshnknker he'll helelp figure this out. >> g greinin to steveve. we did a a lot o of wk gether.

goo see you. . >> wepepent aot of time and erers so mucheear abouout the murder front, the serial killllr random vvlence, gang violence. veryry r re th happepens 1313%. i'll use thihis, i haven't used it. ere's your stranger. unclassified, i don't t kn wha. means it's unclassifieied. bubut e pot is whether it's this type e violence or car cident. whwh i isit abouou the human mis,s, fear of deaths tatat hav low prbababity. ststeecnr,r, wie, four kids, fooling aroundnd wh h th other onone,nother one. you get ininto a a situation wh yoyou' c cating a cauldron of paioio from that t cos s violence. people are less ccerned about that than a plane csh or lightning strike. >> let's be honestst about it..

peopopleatatchhe show, hked intotohehe ectronic med yachltt they take these thihiss as cautionary tales a and they should. ththe ananceof something like this happeningng t them are ver, very low. at the same timeme whahave sociciy that is now obsessive compulsisive.. we're hypochondririac we have anti-germ soaps, anti-bacteria a soaps, soso oon. pele see these thingngs d d there's chananceofof 1 in 10100. they s s has onendnd sayoly smokes, it cououlde e me, especially i if t tey are doing something thth s shodn't be doining. >> they do d d things they shouldn't beoing all the time, driving without a assemblbl whatever it may be. > gting invololve a a this non-sense. >>ut the fearar liveswiwith sharks, lightning strikikes a anane crashes. >> that's right. it's because they s st on the news or rd it o otthe ininteetet the reasason why theyeeee that the news and not the 41%---- that's n n it. the news is wt is uncommon. ws is w wt t haened that is

ouout of the accepted ordinarar. and when somomnene is hohot, abducted and s shobyby astrange, it's unusual.. when someoeo i is involved in a ime ofasassi where there's a loveririane happening,, not so unusual. > iwould be one thing to give the stats, that w wldlde eeugh. e news doesn't d d t the give a lot of side bars. we go in-depth. we giive all of t t sordid details.s. as a matter of fact inin 8989, a group o o suicidologisist, ychologist, socioiolostst >> they y ha d docaall suicididolisist. >> yeah, t ty y lo at clusters. ey got together with the blblesngng othecdc, what t happens when t the media r rept on suicidide, serial kikilng, s on.. they found, in fact, t the m me does have a sonon impact on t te human yye. inther words, we see suicides tend to go upp when w report a suide. exactltly. so they came u with a bunch off standadas s asto how the media

should be porting these thgs. >> steven,n, g nuts. >> first of all, tat has v vry little to do w witthth paicicul situation involving steve mcnair.r. it's a suation that waserer very simimplanand lot of people don't tououch on it. you hee aot of memen ouout ere who d't't mind bngngith a married man. because their r lilief s, you know wh,, he's ours. he's just mararri but thahass t really hisis. he really belongs s mm yes, there are women actually ink aat, which iswhy they aree alllengng that another w w in thehe pyy i i really, really- has really thrownn tsssituation awry. thisis is what really turned e mamadeer lose itndnd u ultately killllimim. >> no, no, no, no. the womaman a cheatining rerelaonship, the other oman, isis n the one w made t thevow. this-year-old girldidid t make aow to remain faiththfu he made t t vow. >> we know that. >> i i h has nothing to doo whh her. the fafa tt there's -- >> no,no,no.

that's notothat i'm saying. >> i need a whole other mtiti on marriage.. wel l doarriage at ather eting. > is s ve importatantoo pnt ouousteve, hehe actually y ga h the e car. g ge her t car. that was part t the manipupulaonon. that was partt of the nipulation. > t-hour meeting evverday. >>hehe tught he was going to leave his wife. >> d don really ntnt to touch on this. th's's problem. ieally want too touch on this. i have lost contrololof the eting. the meetetinwiwi take upthth issue o of marriage tomorrow. >t could be rse. yoyococoulhave been married and i know you're avoidingthat. > i jusustt listen. i don't undedetatandhy it's all nothing. u u eier don't get mried or your crazy. >>e'e'll tell it tomorrow. contessa, , u'u'llet your words inin. >> i'll look forwawa t to it. >> moving on. >> i wowoul l le to be h he totomoow to talk about this. i ntnt to come bak. iiant to t ta bow the

manipulation of anan older an, yoyoger woman, wh we bame the man. >> marririagtotorrow at the meeting, there,, b square.e. we'll take a break, ckck o on marijuana a legalization. doeses half have the munchies a the other hff dodoest. is legalizing pot the only way toto se california? that conversation after this

in these markets, i'i'm ad i turned to o dedeli fofor a annty with guaranteed inme for life. that's right, guanteed income for lifefe mynnuity from fidelity meansns my retirement incocomes s sa. it's guaranteed,d, no matter what happepe.. ifuaranteed income for lifee sounds good to youou, do what i did -- lefidelity be your guidede cacallidelity at... fofodedetas about guguartete income for life.

>> turnsut barack obama is a noal husband, hemessed up in front of people. >> iake issue, alough i'm not a husband. >> he did this comncement speech in moscow. he sa, i don't know if anybody elseill meet their future wife

or husband i class like i id. he dn't meet her in class -- >> he was using poetic license. >> if i'm michelbama and he sa hmet me in cass instead of at law firm trouble. guess who i her escort in italy? sylvia berlusconi hasamed a form he were toples model to esco the spouses around. the-year-old because his wife left him, he needed somebody to play the role of spouse. step i a former topless mel and current minister in his cabinet. she has been named the sexiest cabinetmember. >> italy is shameless, a shamess country. i'm going to tell you a very quick story. italy, a beauty pageant, miss italy, sing, dance, they just put a camera on the ankles,

knees. forberlusconi. >>t's a lie he's cavorting. it's planic he said. >> still ahead on themorning meeting. marijuana utilizationis that thy to savecalifora? is tt idiotic? do we putamerica's children at risk when we entertain adding more drugs to those that are already legal in is country, or are we kidding ourselves by not having the conversion and capturing the tax revenue for thing we do not want to he but is here whetr we like it or not. discovever.

welcome backt the meeting yestererda saw californiaia dpn the wewess so to me, $26 bililonon budget shortfall. erere a state thhat continues

s snd at eses n have a very stable tax revven.. properer taxes are lowow andnd of the moneyisisorececomic activities. cacafornia, a sttat thatatlrlrea hass legalaliz marijuana. they simply don't rulate it anan tax .. meanwhile e the e arother states inin t country th have a a ver different ltlte than lilifoia. take a looook tatamigieu. . >> reporter: someone a atckck thisis t p pll the stateutut of the red. a new commercial argues mededal marijuana users s shldlde taxed. we wantoo pay ourair share. >>he ad is running up a down th state a the i idesacacke

by lawmakerss wh knowow califoa istrtrped for crh. if regulated likee tobacco andn alalcol,l,hey argue i it could bring in aiiion dollars for the tatate >> it's uorortute but true that the economic c tutuatn viously makes people t takee a cocond look this. >ome would argue mededic mamarianana is p prtrt of califoforn's's culture. this dispensary isis arrea nenehborhood. acssss t street froma busy grgrery store and the doors ar ry open. >>his is allen ranch.h. >> at the p phaacacy los angeges s yocan pick pot from aa ca buy it i i a bobott and havee browniniethat's more e anan j aa brownie. pop culture h has cebebrad marijuana. nynyere areuick to embrace it the f fedalal government calls these shops illegegal on occasionn they are rded and they are always controversial. i wouldn't wanty kids walklkg g by andsese it sosold

commmmeralal like this.s. >> reporter: that t yy bee one the many reasons californrnia governor m m never signn legislatatnn to impose a higher tax x on marijuanan >> i think we m mus protect the rrent laws. i n't think we ought to change the law because of financicial rereonons. >> reporter: a as e e ate copes thth a $26illion deficit,t, t tx proponents sayay this ululd a al fixx f a r rsson state. and that,,thth aarg,, iso fiscal s smo scscre. fofor nbc, guel almeguer. here we're joininedbyby genl mccaffffy,y, military analyst f cnbc, most importantly f f this nversation national drdrug policy rereor, very miliar wiwithhis conversation. the gentleman you lolook at her b van damm out ofburbank, champion professionall wrerestrs proo legalizationllso very miliar with the convnvertition

general, i'm goiningtoto begin h u, because i presumeost folks s arfamiliar with a lot of sides of the argument. in other words,innn idl worlrld think we would n have drug use in ththis c cntry riri. we're i in a s sittition where alcohol is leleg,, cararets. you know thenarrative. why not -- in other wowor,, if u'u'reoing to have t revenue from alcohol a and tobaccoco b e u've accepted itsprprence in sosociy whether you kekeit or not, which is what we've done as a grgro,, why iss it not prpropate to introduce marijuana into that t coerertion? >> w wel i i tnk it's a legitimatete datate,n appropriate topic. it'somome back into the foagain. personalal pseseion of marijuana has been deimimalized in mst eaeas country for overr decaca.. the problem is foror m my of u i'i'm ryryuch involved in drug and alcohol rehabililitioion treatment t centers.s. 'v've t 15 million a amecaca wharare chronicical aicted to

ilgagadrugs or alcohol, t the most dangerous drug in o society. we've got 400,000 ameririca year that dierorom cigarettes. ii personally thihink the ideaet we ought t to l lgagali pot in gegenel l or the smokeke scenea medical potot argument is unhelpful. we'll end up wiwith higher rates of drug a ase over ime, and it's not a wse move. the balancing g acac there's plenty of evidencece t to back wh y youe idid butt t t balalanngng act,t's happeninin anyway, we'rerefofo ining e revenue, a, a a b, because itt's alalack market product in places werere there' ololen like mexico continueses to go up a the incarceceraonon rates a exexpeeessociated ththit, in new york and the rockefellerr lls.s. yoyou owow that - - how d dyou balalaee" - let me add a notion that

nobodyhinks taxing alcohol and cigarereeses ps off thehe e enos soal harm it doeoes. alcoholl hemomost coosose impactct o on erican societyty imaginable. cigarettes ass we tatalk,, hal millioio dead. > i agree. > s nobody winsns out of t t taxes of these sutances. wewe cldldax prostitution, heroin. ththesarar false arargents. ththe al problem is 50 millllio of usus arere chronic substance abusers. so by the wayay, when itcocome popot,ouou'r40 years old, youou veve i a log cabin in orerego haveve p pts in the ckckrd, hahave ball. at i want too talk about, l les kekeepugs, tththextentee can, out of f ee hands of adadolceces. >> letet mgeget bin here. the general makes a good point. if you're 40, a pofofsional wreseserer, u've got bag of majuana at ho,, go nuts. but what i take your advocaca

and others l likeeou ofhihis drg and allow i thenn to penetrate into the schoololsystem, i io oe scscol bus drdrvevers all theoo vuvuererab parts of socieietyre what wewe need to p proct notott for the inlgence of adudus lilikeyoyoself or others. how do youee with ththat >>dylan, you're right. that's exactctlyhyhye need too regulate it cucurrtltlyarijuana is on n e black market, dd it's nott going anywherere. eradication is n not an option. why fund a a war that wee abablutely cannot wi maririananaas b bee prohibibit for over 7070 yeyear riritt n it's the numberer one cash crop in the state off cafofoia. and itit'shehe number o o cash crop in thehe cntntry with a ao half of adudumericans having admitted to t tryngng itit. it's n n goinganywhere. so we're wasting money byyiying t t people,byby giving them false ededucioio we jusust heard mr. mccaffrey s because people d from

cigarettes that'sshy we shououn'n't galize marijuana? that's ridiculous, that's why we ouou. half a m milonon i i americicaie from cigigetette and 150,000 straight upp from alcoholol poisoning. zero from marijuana. we need t to talk billions off e stets and put itnto the ececomy. we don't want to tap into ththat course we do. regulate it, kp it away f fro the kidids,hehe drug dealers, ad put itn ourur economy. general. i i snt a lot of timim inrug and alcocohollreatment enters. i talked to young nn and women in their 2 20s in recovery. ilwlws end with, h, what should i i tell high scscolol k ababt rrijna. inririab without questionalall pepeop in recovery say this one of the gateway drdru, alescent drdrug taking behavior. i don't wanto see it lelilize it's a mistake. > wt about h point b legalizizi it a allws you regulate accessibilityty.

the concernyoyou have is better servrved >> that's completely sisill we want marijujuanatat 7-elevenn stores andwe think i will makeke it l lesss available?? loloananges has hundreds of shops alall erer the city. it n n becomin socicial problem.m. sterdam tried the s sa thing.g. it sort ofof bringsgswith it a collectionon eehaor that arare unattractive moms andaa anemployers. it's not a a gogood idea. > wre going take a a break. i want contessa's pointt o view on this. we will cocontueuehis conversation. rob, sit tight, generalal mccaffrey, si tight. coeses, i knowowouou have strong points of vieww yoyouelf. 'r'rback withth more on thee legagalititi of marijuana. is it worth i it for t prisons anand x revenue or iss thesocial liliabititthat already infests our societyy with c cararetsnd all the reses of itnlnl

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welcome back. a conversation on the meritsof legalization outweigh in places like cifornia where it's affectively legal ug, plac like new york wre it's distinctly illegal and states in between. general mccaffrey, former national drug policy adviser making very compelling arguments for the liability of not on marijuana but alcohol, cigarettes the res ofit. onhelip side of it, rob van damm in los angeles, compelling arguments in fav of legazation, particular at

time when california under water, the rest of it. break this up by bringing the daughterf a baptist preacher. fortunately for all of us i only had to look to my right and there's contessa brer. what do you think? >> it's bad policy for governments and bureaucrats to decide whas best in anyone's life. i think th best pople to decide what's od for you is you. i think when pele smoke p and git behind the eel of a car thas the crime. driving under the influen. we have laws for that. if you use drugs d neglect your children, the cre you've committed >> what about the sandstor harm general mccaffrey's pot that is done to our children and educationa system when they have hadulnerable velopmental phas only through the e of marijuana or the use of alcohol, how do you manage that? >> i came ofge in the era of just say no andancy reagan being the front man. inmy high school, there was not a lot drug use because it was

socially unacceptable. cigarette smoking bomg socially unacceptable because it's not really -- i'm old now but i don't think it's seens cool nymore. geral mccaffrey mas the argument narcotic anonymous may suggest theyever try pot. like alcohol ano, ma'am must -- you get one lastord each. general, i'l begin with you? >> well, first of all, i don't sagree with what contessa is sang. i think social disapproval is what we're about, maki it legal so drug sal and possession of wholesale amounts is part of what wre saying. go to the scnce, national institute of health. persistentse impairs memory, learning skills, can lead to addiction, increases risof cancer, head, lung. we've got to go withscience. it's a harmful drug. it's liste major because

getting adolescents. we want to decriminale personal possession keep the drug illegal. >> wll come back tthe other side of this, again, as i said before this is a two-hour meing every day. thank goodness. rob, realquk. >> yeah. it was never suggested it would be for sale at 7-eleven where kids can get it. it's mijuana dispensaries which currently ave. we do tax with a octor's recommendation. abt 100 million guesstimated for the state. we're talking about a $2 billion plus, by legalizing, removing e doctor's referral requirement, california, the economy is in the hole. we really they'd to do this and there's no reason not t except for es. allies. it's alys been lie since ohibition started in '37. these reports that general mccaffrey says he's looking at, those are all lies, too. i s taught in hh school. i was taught lies in high school. feral guidelines, by the

way -- >> that'nor another meeting. we don't know whether ger mccaffre what's lies a what'snot in that context, bu a good conversation, rob, are they lying to usn high school. we'lbring that up in a meeting xt week. rob, thank you ry much. general maffrey, we'll see y in just a cond here at the "morni meeting." if y you're tang 8 extra-a-stngthylenol... a day on the days that you have arthritis pain, you could end up takg 4 times the mb... of pills comparered to aleve. just 2 aleve have the strength... to relieve arthris in all day.

l right. weweome ba if you'r a hero of the meeting. if you started someing, take a lookok >> this 20-year-r-old girl did t take a vow to remmain fafahful. he made that. >> w know that >> it hasas nothing to doith her. > noew york city n new york city. that's not what i'm saying. i need a whole othther meeting on marriage. that's not what i was ying. >> i is very important to poi t -- >> wt that was, more than juust people hollering there. a cversation about marrrriage and ether, again owe know the marriage conversationon. i want to expla what it i we'll ve it totomorrow. contessa, stephen smith, j jeff ll b back to figure outut marriage o oe and for all. we'll l lve ts for all mankind. that why we called thihis meing.

the lastst but not least, for the hahard work w we've done ar here thehe past eight daa to t this show upnd running, i ink weay have figud out w to g rang. it doesn't ke that much work. just enjoy the babies.s. ♪ ee only t thi i kn that rates better thann dancing babibiescacarl wason. >> we'vevegot aererric show ming up todayay. turns outhat not o on are republicans unhahappyy with the presidenen n nowemocrats are unundi off. 've got two of them, oneof hi oldest friends f fr illinono tetellususwhy she'ss frususatat with the cia andndhahat' goingn there. also inn health ca,, some democrcrs s setors may bololt so. inclusiviv one-on-n-on conversasati wh the young new rhodes hohola turned naacp

prident. is the nacp still rlevant inn the era off obama.a. what do you thinin >> based on that pool story where they had bunchff plaque children thrown n ou o of e pol, are you kidding me? it's's m me r revavant than ev. >> a olol lotmore. a continued fightt omom yesterday. i missed it, what happened? > he and i got into it over michael ccks, the morial. > wt t wayour ppblblem >> yoou' g g to wawah.h. this is free. you'veveotot t stay tuneded wewe'vgogo to watch. we'll giveawe quick bathroom eak. right t ckck rht after the meagag

kind of coideryself a robinhood of the directing worl buick enclave ee finest luxury crossover ever. i need some zen ime with this model thk u.