2,2,1s1st day scece the previou presidident clcled mission cocompshed in iraq. m m keh olbermann. good nightht, angogo luck. 9:0000 p.. right now here t to diusus e e paern of generosity with a a reporter whoho h s spon with the sbsbanof ensign's mistress, ladies and gentlemen, , he i is rachch m madw. go e eveng. >> good evening, keiei.. i am trying to f figurououhow to get t in t thapattern of gegerosity without doing whahat the hahatoton mily appears to haveve h t to to get there. > oy. i'm going g home thanks, , by thank you at home fofor staying with us s foththe xt hour. as keithth iimimat, the john ensign scandal tipipd d ov into dedefitely not your garden variety sex scandal teteititor today. w wiltalk with the vegas reporter a aththe nter of this sty,y, a to the man who secretlylynfnfilated the seseetetivreligious group that al features in this scandadal, and that has dragged a anoth coerertive republican senatotor besides s jo e ensn into this scdadal.

also joioid d th hour by formal counterterrorism c czar chchd clark and nbnbchchieforeign corrrrespoenenrichard engel here talk about today's lalastst rod d protests in iran. all coming up in what t s shang up to be a verery, vy y g hour on this shsh.. but s srt tonight with new tails and new admissionsns fro repupublic s sator john ensign today about t th s sexnd ethics scscandathth appears toto b starting to consnse e hi ifif p polician has an affair, that in itseself inono necessararilnenewsrthy. not anymore than i iwowoulbe if itapapned to any other humanan being. a politician's affaiair bememe newsworthyhy iththatolitician has built his or hererarareeon e basis of his or her r n n susupeoror psonal morality. crusading g aiainsthe perceived immorality of ththrerestf us. in that case a privava a affr becomes a b bigewsworthy lilitil problem. becomes hypocrisy, ananththat

tyty o of g newsworthy political problem crosses s overntnta full-blown scandalal le e thone yoyou' seeing now in nevada whwn you add in aggravavati f facrs like shtoopipi y yousubordinate and mimi members of the surdinate. exchange of money inin conctctn with shthtoongng aone and paying fus what looks a lot like e hush money, even if y youe e caing it a gigi.. that's what we m may he e w in the e ca o of e john ensign affair. today the agaggres nonpnpartinn watch dog organizazationrere ethics i in waininon, announced ththeye asking the justice department to launchch a cmimil investigigatn n whher or not enensi illegally funneled mpaign money to his mimistssss in the form m a a $,000-plus seseverae e ckage. ththrerevetion that ensign's mistress got t ts s serance package came f from r r sband riringn interview that aired last night in nevadada

we'll have much more o on atat i a moment.. afaftethis $20,000 severancece claim and request t for crcrinal investstigioion to that claim, johnhn ensn'n'lawyer today released a aomombsll statement that i iwawasn just $25,000 worthh of severance paid to his miress cindy hampton. it was actctualla a t more than atat. it was $96,000.. the kickerer, th $ $,000 was paid not out of cacaaiaignunds t by john ensign's momom a dad. h h mistress and her famimily senator ensign's lawyeyer confmemetoday that "after the e nator told his parentstsbobout the afaffairisisarents decided to me e e gift out of concern n for r the lllleing of longtime mimilyriends." can you imagine the phphoncacall mom, dad, hehere'shehehing. i know politiciansnsrere rlly good at asking f forononeybut -- in t termsf f e legality and the ethics here, e ensn n ner repopoeded a big severance

paent to his mistress. if he has to pay h her aigig serance payment, more thanan $25,000, that't's e e feny threshshd d fothat particular crcre he would be looking g at five years in n pris.. w, if what's been calllled seseverae e yment wasn't paid t of campaign funds anan actualally jt t id by check from the senator'r'momom,rankly, that's not exactly a f fququeny asked ququesti o oethics queries dodot g. we'll leave that to o the pepes, in terms ofwhwhitits ect implications are if f i is,n fact, trueue. the majojoququeson, big poliliticaquqution, whether or nojojo ensign is feeling thehe prsure toe resign. detailils ofheheffair and the dollarars atat flowed the affair owly, slowly dribble outut. today the senate s saihehe wouldn't resesn.n. t t ere are other people w who still nene t to swer for their part in what really y los s li a cashororilence and continued shtoopopg g scme. as far as we knonow th w wle thing appepeeded tbe a very

transaionarelationship. what john enensi r reived was -- les call it love. and alal t theact that the affair was kept ququie atat jn ensign gave was cash. lots and lots of cash.h. anitit dsn't seem like it was s his own. he gave campaign c ch h tois mirere, cindy hampton. she worked o on si's re-election committee asell as his litical action committee. we know her pawas doubled at both jobs during the time the afir. senator ensign alsgave national rublican party cash tois mistress' teenage son who was given a job at nationa repuican senatorial committee, which ensign was the chairman of. johnnsign directed even more cash to the husbd of his miress through a job he set m up with at a consulting firm run bywo of ensign's nrsc staffers. then sator eign arrange for

aop campaign contributor to hire his mistss' hsbsbd at the company calllledallegiant ai finally asas wleleard today, hnhn eign got mom and dad to give a lot of cash d dirtltly it hampton family.y. $96,000 paididn n $1000 incrememen f f some reason. alall exchange, apparently,y,or continuing to receceiv----ove and sisilee.e. from thosesenvnvold. that's's t s scerio as we understand it now. and because republican p policic ararsosomemes hard to understand byeople who are not particicanantsn them, i have to tete you that none of thesese people whosese meyey a resources and jojobsjojohnnsign apparently dictctedo this woman who he was sleeping w witananher family, , nene othese people seededo mind. thnrnrscs not complaining. mpaign contributors sosoarar n compmplaining. who is complainining crew, , thpepeop watching to see this is criminal and the e people who aren't t reivivinthe money y ymymor doug and cindydy hptpt. cindy isis n c cling on john ensign to resign f froththsenate andoug hampton has come

forward for the fifirstitimen an exclusive ininteieiewith a neneva c cab tv show. . . mpton says he thinks j joh ensign ougug t to sign and also thinin t thahe and his family deserves some e ststition. in part, because he e sa b bothe and his wifefe lt t thr jobs with johohn sisignecause of this affairir. check it out.. you need to be made financially whole bebecae e hn engngn dtroyed your ability toto make a living? don't t yobebelie that? > nquestion about that. >> is his personal p pure e of cindy spilled over i io,o, h i'm rereal s sry you guys have to leave. you are going toto- - th isn't workining. e creation of the -- consulting, all l ofhoho tentnt axles were bururd d beuse john needed d thgsgso go down li t thi he was stiti i in rsuit of cindndy. this was -- he n need d meut of the e gaganition, and cindy tititely was asked to leavave basically y byheheamily. we talk about all ofofhehe tngs

that have e tan n ple as a result of john's actions i in leadership and the decisions that he iniated and things there covered up to help this happen and to keep this fromg out and to keep this froming place is really genuinely impaed my family. it's unbievable. do you think he should resign? >> absolutely. >> why? >> because i don't thehis desion making in the last few years is that of united states senator. >> joining us, host of face to face interviewing ug hampton exclusely. mr. ralston, congratulations on your big scoop. thanks f joining us tonight. >> thank you, rachel. >> today a senator said at doug hamptonhould not be believed. when fox newreceived a letter from mr. hampton abouthe affairn ne, they didn't run with the story because ty didn't think mr.ampton was

credible. do you feel like he's credible >> well, ihink he's credible to the extent he kw john ensign verwell, was involved in all of the events. is he a guy that see like a broken man, a guy after money? a guy trying to put his life back together? yeah, sure. you can questi his credibility. t lebe clear. besides coburn a ensign saying briefly what doug hampton says is not true they provid no evidence to unter what they id and, in fact, john ensign having to put out at statement today, which i'mure you want to talk about, about his dadnd mom pang off the hamptons came becae doug hampton started talking about those kis of payments. so he has some credibility. he telling 50% of the truth, %, 80%? wel know in time, rachel. >> that's right, in terms what we can findut that corroborat his story and the way we see senator eigand his camp responded to algation. in tms of that statement today

from what you kn of senator ensi opolitical career and neda politics, does it make sense that his parents would be paying thimoney on his behalf? are hiparents part of his political operation? >>is parents are not part of the political operatio in fact, there very apolitic. like any parents thelove their n. does this look unseemly? you have theasino boss paying to g sonny boy out of troue when he got into trole of course itoes, and i think it as to the whole unseemliness of this whole thing, rhel. some people mighsa any good father would have done that to help out his son, but the y that stement from john ensign's lawyer s rased, let'be honest here. he put iout because he knew doug hampton was going to be on my program tonight and it's already posted on the ternet payments.legatns about these he tried to get out in front of it sayin oh,no, it wasn't verance. i ouldn't have to face leg liability. these were gifts. gifts because we care about the

hampton mily. sorry if i sound a little nical about it, rachel. >> well, yr cynicism, though, is politically iornt to the tent that it reflects what is his constitnts in nevada think about this whole affai do you feel people in neda are getting angrabout this? are they in a forgiving mood about th? what'she reaction in the state? >> well i can tellou that i ink reaction is somewhat split,ut still none of it is od for john ensign. his numbers clely are dropping in polli data. he ud to be the most popular elected official in the ate. he'll be lucky if his numbs aren't upside do by tomorrow. polling data i'd heardbo, rachel. some are very angry with dou haton and how he handled this. should have done sometng a long time ag punched out ensign, left thetate, not now we know he's asking for millions of dollars. that seems unsmly to people. i think his wife's behavior and the portrayal of her avictim

when it was coensual seemed li it's polarizing people. i think sign's behavior now the see this family try to buy m out of trouble and, rember, remember, this was done right as they were leaving hn ensign's employ in april of 2008. the queson is, did mommy and ddy know that john ensign continued to pursue this affr by his own account? even if you don't believe doug hampton th he continued to ue his wife he says the affair end in march. ensign says the affair eed in august, six mont, seven months after that lter that he wrote to c hampton. and five monthafter these so-called gifts. i just don't tnk ensign has mu cdibility left on all this. and of course, one of the big deinants how big a scandal this is and whetheor not he ultimately fee irresistible prsure to resign is how many of these details dribble out ov time and how long it takes get the whole story out

a big part of the reasons we have as much of the story out is your reporting. thank yofor good to have u the show. coinued good huck luck to you. >> thanks for having me, racl. appreciate it. >> john rals is cumnist for th"l vegas sun" and host of "face to fa wit john ralston." thank you sharing his interview with doug hampton in this case so we uld bring you the ory. what do on oklahoma senar slash ob/gyn sla church deacon and cretive fundamentalist group have to do with the hn ensigncand the mysterious religious group at the nter of this sex scdal and why oklahoma senator tom burn is getting dgged into this mu? that's coming upext. and the a versus the congress versus thtruth. riard clark will join us here in a few minutes. and just starting and stopping. having to go in the middle of a ballgagame and en not being able to gonce i got there.

and going ig. i thought i had gogoinproblem. my dococr r sa i had a growing proble itasasn'my bladder. my prostatee s growing. i had an enlargiging prostate that wasas caungngy urinary sympmpto.. mymy dtotor prescribed avodada.. (announcerer) over time, avodartrtctuall rinks the prostate anand impres urinary y symptoms so ian go more easily when need to go and go ls often. (announcer) avodart is for r only. women should not takee or handle avodartt due to risof a specific bir dect. do not donate blood until 6 nths after stoppi avodart. tell your ctorf you have liviv disea. rarely sexual side effects, swelling or tendnderne o o the breasts n n r. onlylyouour alth care prprovider c tell if symptoms are fr an enlarged prostete and not a more serus condion like prostate cance h have gular exams. call your doctor tayay. avodart. help take care ofour growing problem

>> there is a cool thing onlin lled versionista. this was online april l 15 o of this year. their r pa o ocivil rights, a plge that would be famililr r to you from kennedydy omaman hiv and d ai. lifting the ban on needle e exchanangerorogrs since they've enen swn to reduce the t thatat of hiv amomo p peoe who use drugugs. thatat w on t webebtete othe white housuse o oapril 15th. toy not so much. that proromi i igone. and the president's s dgdget actually callslsoror t ban on nenele exchange funding toto sy inctctvertly. th's's ahange no one believes s in and whahat plplai this scene daday the rototun othe cacapil l as more ananwo dozen ople were a arrtete inrotest of obama breaking hisis needle exchange omomis andot following through onon hisisthtr aids funding p proseseeither. so that t leeses o mystery

lvlvedix months into the first terming. turns out the lele i isn going ieiey after all.

new and only from progressssiv. cacall or clk today. america, meet setor tom coburn, from oklahoma. eviously known outside oklahoma mostly for raising the rest of the country's collecti eyebrows from time to time like in 2004 whedrcoburn told an repter that he thought doctors that performe abortions shoulde ecuted. orhen at a campaign event the same year said it was impossib to use the bathrooms imany oklahoma junr high schools

nowadays because of what h called rampant lesbianism d the time in 1997 when deunced nbc for airing a movie "schindler's list" before ultimately apologizing he said thoscar nning holocaust dramwas full of vile language, nudity and violence. it was film about the holocaust. tom coburns now famous as the otr senator in the still unfolding hnnsign sex scandal. doug hampton, the huand of the woman senator ensign admits to sleeping with clai senator corn tried to negotiate annd to the affair, and that as part of those notiations, senator coburn encouged senator ensign to write that now public handitten apology letter to his mistress ando pay her mily restitution. mrcoburn -- excuse me. dr. coburn issued a statemen denying all ose allegations saying, was never present when the letter written, never made anyssessment of paying anybody anything. those are untruths."

that dr. coburn won't give any details about what he didsay to e senator about the affai because he said, "i was counseling hims a pysician and as an ordained deacon. that is privileged comnication that i wilnever reveal to committee, not to a cot law, not tanybody." given that tom coburn is an ob/gyn, not actly clear in what capacity he might he been treating senator ensign. also not clear why h doctor/patient cfidentiality would preclude him from answering qutions about the engn affair but would allow hito make lots of statements about the affair that really portray himself in a good light. about the other half that the doctor ss he was wearing when he counseled senator ensign at of a deacon brinng in a religious group pes to be the connectiveissue linking both. it's a secretive christian

organization kno as t fellowship or the fily. they run a house kwn as c reet whereators coburn and ensign live together with otr law makers in washington, d.c. doug hampton talked out c reet and its members in the sex scandal tween his wife and senator ensign iannterview yeerday with our previous est john ralston of the "las vegas sun." >> in february you contacted pelend i believe they were affiliated with christian fellowship organizatio >> it's more abouthere they live and how tse men operate they're great men. they have a go heart. there's -- >> why didou contact them? >> because they're close fries. they're a part othe men who live at c street. >> what diyou want them to do? >> confront john. >> what exactly is c street? what is its role in e lives of nators ensign and coburn a in the ongoing life of this scandal? joining us, jeff charlte, contributor editor and ahor of "the family, the secret

fundamtasm at the heart o america's power," it is out in paperback and highly romnded bye personally, as pt of a receipt certain for the book lived among themily and saw ny of its actions first nd. thanks for cominon thehow. >> hi, rachel. thanks for having me. >> what is c stree i know it's a house street in wasngn. how is it rt of the family? well, the c street house is actually a former convent now registered at a church. it's run by the family, and used by them to provide hsing for six to eight cgressman at a given time and provide spitual council to these congressmen, ich all sounds fine so far. what makes it dient from othecoervative christian organizations. two things. it's secretive and indeed the leader of the group describes it, he says, the more invisible u can make your organization the morenfluence it will have. e her thing is the nature the influence they want to he. i got to sit in on a spiritual coseling session between the leader of the mily and a congressma

met senator ensign the. the leer of the family was counseling cgressman who had a ry standard issue, bill of issueselatedo the christian right and said you've got to have a bigger vision owhat we're talkinabout here. called it jesus loves ing. sort of a totalitariandea of christianity and gave an example men who believed, understood t way power should's wielded. an example hitl, pol t, osama bin laden anlenin. >> wow. when i first read your book, when it first came out in hardback, "the mily," my notes, i write notes on the fly leaf. my notes about it, i wenback and looked. esseially to promote -- promoting american power worldwide unfetter capitalism, no unions, nprograms to help or people. all with this idea that godly,

porful rich men should get as nyesources as personal personally and pvately help everyo else. the impression i was left with. was i close? >> that's dead on the money. the familyagain, it's the de christian conservative organization in washington and it goes back 70 years wh the founder believed tt god ve him a new revelation saying that christianithad gotten it wrong for 2000 years and most people think of as christiany, being about helping thweak and the poor and the mk and the down and out. he belved god came to him one night in april 1975 and said what christianity shld really bebout, building more power 35 what cistianity should really be about, building more por for thalready powerful and these powerful men chose god can then if they want to dispense lessons to the rest of us, trickledown fundamenli. >> do you see a connecti between that larger sortf power theology and the fact that neither john ensign nor mark sanford for that matr is also affiliat with the group, despite the scandals?

something thatells these guy, don't worry about the affair. big picture. you're good. stayre you are. 'smportant for you to stay in power? >> yeah. no i think actually gunter sanford made it clear en he cited king david as an example e reason why he wasn't going to resign office. that struck a bell with , because the ng dav story, the core tching of the family when i first heard it i was living with the family one of t leaders in the family was explaining why kg david waimportant. not because he was good t a bad man. seduced anher man's wife. actually had t husba murdered, and he wanted to explaiwhy this was a model and he says to one of the men the group, hsays, suppose i heard you raped three littleirls. what would i tnkf you? this guy being a human being says you would tnk i w a monster. ll, the leader of the family says, no, noat all, because you're chosen. os by god for leadership, and so the normal rules don't apply.

wn jim demint of south calina talked about his relationship to this gup, al lived at the street group, six years ago, descred it saying "we do have a bible study. somedy will share a verse or a thought, but mostl it's an accountability gup to talk about things going on in our lives and how we're dealinwith them." you've written members of family give each veto powerver their lives. whh whateems to be a scandal, looking at the ensign scanl, how does a group like that not veto putting the mistress' kid on the replican party payrol hodoes that not get outed by this group? >> wel bause the responsibility of the otr men in yr accountability group, i would say by theay youon't have accountility behind closed doo. that's the opposite of accountability. what these other men are dng is they're saying, allight we're going to look out for you. stead of self-interest by proxy,nd what they're calling accountabilis a man might bring to the group, for

instancethe fact that he is having an affair with another man or the fact that he is perhaps corrupt in some way and so on. and ese guy, going to deal with it internally. >> wow. >> very much behind closed doors, t leader of the group actually oncsaid wt we do is, a latin phrase, beyond the it means beyond the voice ever the people. >> a contributing editort "harper's" magaze d author of the book "the family." hypocrisand affair. wait untilou read about third world dictators and how these guys emper the incredible story. you did incredible work on i thanks for joining us toght. >> thanks veryuch, rachel. all right. coming u after more than a week of quiet, new protests and w violence on the streets of iran today. nbc's richard engel will jn us shortly. and when the cia briefs congress on sensitive naonal security issues, is ngress really bei briefed?

does the cia aually answer to anyone? former white hou counterterrorism expert riard clark will join us in a few minutes. ay with us.u e, it's no just telling people geicico could save 'em h hundreds s cr insurance. it's actualldodoing . gecko vo: businenessmen sa"hard work equals suess." wellllyou'reooking at, arguably, the world's st scessful businessgeck geckvofirst rule of "hard work equalsuccess." gecko vo: that's why geo is consistently rated excellent orter in terms of fananci strength. gecko vo: second rulule: "d't steal a coworker's egg salad, 'specially if it's marke "the gecko." me on people.

still ahead, fighting ov o's lying to whom and whennd where, we will talk with the man who explicly and repeatedly rned the bush administration aboual qaeda. er chief counterterrorism adviser richard clark joining in our next segment.

plus, ash mob reaching the big time. fend kent jones, the english language, all comi up the rest of this hou first, time for a coup of ho mackerel stories in today' news. nbc news confied that illinois senator rand burris will not seek re-election next year. not -ection exactly. he was never elected t first time he was appointed by disgraced and now imached vernor rod blagojevich under investign by t feds for allegedly trying to auction off back obama's old u.s. senate seat to the hiest bidder. potentially factorininto the decion here is news that governor blagojech's chief of staff, john harris, pled guiy this wk to one count of wire fraud, and supposedly isishing dirt on governor blagojech to u.s. attorney general fitzgera as wspeak. since the governor appointed him that might be an awkrd trail of dirt.

and a pollaken last month, 66% of illinois vote sd they uld vote against roland burris. only% would vote for him. i don't put that much stocin poll du, that is 10-1. the icing on t cake for burris, only managed to ises $20,000 for his re-election. in a national political race, $20,000 like the retainer you put down at the coff shop. it's not ele senator from ilnois money. senar burris is expected to make the official announcent tomorrow. nally, haven't solidified ur late summer vacation plan yet? here's an idea. it's a bad o. north koreannounce today it ll stage its math rhythmic gymnastics flip card exavaganza this summer. the state-sored national

uber circus lasts through late seember and tourts are very, very, ry, very welcome. the cash-starved dictatoal regi is even welcoming tourists from the hated united states of america. all you have tdo is pay many thousands of dollars for a package tour, hotel om included and figure out a y to say that the government can't feedts own children but can train them to turn over 100,000 pieces of paper inxact uson. cirque dsoleil has lacked that creepy staistic nionalism u crav this might be for you. it also pays to shop online. you get esurance's "fast 5 (tm) discount" you crave, this might be f you. - thanks, profesr. don't forget the good student discount. and there's even more discounts! it's no "secret" that you can save hundreds withsurance. make it yourmission" to click or esurance today.

on the nsa a couple weeks after 9/11, the ve start of october 2001, you were bried on the program a objected. wrote a letter to the nsa saying i'm concn about this waantless spying. the nsa responded to yith a tter and i know -- i printed it out. actually have it becau it's funny. so much was redacted, released absolutely nothing. dear congresswoman, racted, redact, redact -- >> sincereours. exactly. was there someing in that letter that, and i know 's redacted, so yan't say publal. was there something the letter that made you feel like, i objected privately i should not object publicly? >> you c't. you can't. >> you can, becae of the content at you have been briefed on, but isn't there way toay'm a senior member of the house intelligenc commtee.

i believe that ware doing something we ought not bdoing? >> you cnot do that publicly. that's something tt i simply have to change in terms of, because yourands are pretty much tied. >> you think theules suld be changed in terms whamembers -- >> who you go to? can you go to the chief juste of the supreme court? these are issues, mi you, u can't en talk to your staff about. i have a securitadviser, but you can't talk -- you n't ta to anybody. that just isn't ght. that isn't right, because it gives althe cards to the administrati, and then if you say anything about it, yave violated our natiol security, and it shoul't be that way. >>n oversight rule. >> exactly. that's wha're going to change, because you n't -- even under a democratic presidt, any president, democrat or republic, to have that kind of ahority. and th will happen. >> and tt will happen.

will ange that. > do you want to know whatll the fighng's about? whetr the cia's been lying to congress and why we get an allegation frocongressional democrats th t cia has been lying to congress? think that what nancy pelosi told me backn february in that section our interview we just re-aired is thbiissue here. pelosi's argumt to me when i challenged her why she kne about nsa spyingwhether she knewbout eanced terrogation, she was sort of inrmed but couldn't talk to staff abt it oother members ofoness, couldn't certainly ta to the public and even considered going to the chie justice the supreme court because she di't know who else she would llowed to consult. >> how can youonduct oversight when you'rtold something alone and aren't allowed to tell anyo else what you've been told? that counts as oversight? that counts at the you controlling anncy?

that's what pelosi and democrats the intelligence commtee are trying to change n. they want the whcommittee briefed so at least th can debate what they'rtold. and that prosed change is why are having this kerfuffle now over what thcia says behind closed doors versus whatt says public. it'salso, if y think about it, a big part about havin a spy srvice that is american, that's insidehe law,nd one that is a roe secret anc that, frankly, ju does what it wants regardless of the law. joininus now is richard clark. former chief counterterrorm adviser both e bush and clintopresidencies and author most recently of "your gornment failed you," breaking the foreign policiesasters. thanksoroining us. great to be on the show. >> every american counts on our governme being good at spying. we need to be od at intelligence collection d analysis for the safety ofur

to be legal.pying also needs do you think the current sysm, the gang of eight brieng system, allows the cia to be goodt spying and to be doing their work lally? >> i thinkriefings of the gang ofight, very sensitive iefings, as opposed to the broader briefings, the gang of eight briefings are usually often a farce. they catch tm alone, one at a ti, usually. they run sombriefing by them. e congressman can't keep t briefing. they can't take notes. they can't consult their staff. they don't kw what the briefings are about in advce. it's a box check so at the cia can y it complied with the law. it's not oversight. it doesn't work. >> what do you makof the obama administration threateni t veto t intelligence authorizatiobill if it includ a provision to expand the gangf eight briefings and change them up so more memrs of congress get those briefings algether? >> first of all,t's shocking that the white house iallowing a public fig between leon

panetta, who is a very hnorable man, by the way, and the spker of the house, who islso very honorable and both of them are leading democrats. the white house should ner allow this to t out in the publ. they shod brinthe two in, a long time ago, sit them down a work something o. the rdoday is that the white house is willing to work something out to fix this system, cause they know as well as anybody se it's broken >> in terms of the big picture on counterterrorism and intelligence is part of th counter terrorm, it'a lot of things. six months inte first term of this adnistration, speaking as the forer countterrorism head onthe nationa security council, cou you give them a a prelimary grade how there doing countterrorism issues can you tell from ouid >> doing verwell. haven't had the coage yet, i understand why, to get rid of alot of the bloated bureaucracy that bw after 9/11. but i think they're doing a ve good job sfar. they should be paying a little bit more attention to groups otr than al qaeda.

groups in pakistan that mi atta iia, that sort of thing. by and large i think they're doing a good job. th're focusing on yemen, about to fall apart at the seamsnd where al qaeda is movi in. focusing on somaa, also a place al qae is moving to. i think they'ra litt bit ahd of the game. >> anotherntelligence issue in the news. the presidt has proposed a form of preventive detention. e pentagon general council this week said the administration mig keep peop in jail even afterey were acquitd, found innocent sentially in court, do you see that as an sertion they belie more in intellce as a system than they do in the justiceystem that they're suspion of somebody's dgerousness is more important than any evidence againsthat person? >>t's an admission they don't believe in theonstitution. >> i think we have to distinguish between pele at guantanamo and elsewhere where when the last adminirationo tainted things it will b difficult to t tm.

and other people that we might me across in the future. thpeople we come across in the futu, thers absolutely no need to do detention wut trial. either try them in the country where they're committing the crime, under theirystem. or bring them back here as i us tdo. give them their rights, an attorney, d put them on trial. by theay, we had 100% convictionate wh we did that. there's never been a trorist i know of you couldn't convict if you real wanted to. if you'd bui a casand took thtime to do it. >> it boeryou to find a terrorist, aember a terrorist organization, co add terrorisacrather than mebody think about being bad in the future. what we're worried about with the ea of preventative detention. >> exactly. if you think they are going to do something in the fute, keep your eye on them until tey cross e lin and you arrest tm. >> or do like what the british dond warn them.

ll people who you think are bad people, hey, we'reatching you in topes that will scare them out of committing tir future bad acts. >> i wouldn't recoend that. >> fair enough. riard clarke, former counterterrorism chief of the national securityouncil and auor of "yur government failedyou," now out on paperback. thanks for your time. nice to see you. >> thank you, chel. coming unext, nbc's chief foreign correspondent richar engel will be he tod in iran. thuprising was back in the streets. so if you were wondedering w everyone's's twiererent green dadaichard engel will be here with the scoop. stay tuneded. thiis the world record forr ngevity and endurance. and one of theos technologically vanc automobiles on the ananet this ittth generationon e-class. ths is mercedes-benz.

women who drink crystal lightt rink 20% more water. crystalight. make a delicious change.

crystalight. spenend m mines a month with n natur i itincts. it's the healthihi w way to blend a away ayay how? it's antioxididant chch and ammomonifrfree in fact e e re often you use it, thhehethier your hair looks.s. natul l stincts, 's's a good. the first t mpmple women's multltivitininn a drink mix. wiwithore calcium and d vitan n .. support bone anbrbrst health...

ililhelping you hydrate. one a day women's 2o..

god is great, reportedly vio fronight in tehran. oppositi protestors on again doing their call an response from the roof tops in the dark, sialalinthe uprising there ves. today r the first time in 11 ys they took to the strereet again in large numbe to protest the resus of the esidential election held last month, which ty say was rigged to ensure the re-election of mahmoud ahmadinejad. defying warningsrom the governor of tehran that anyon

attending today' demonstraon would be me wh a crushing reonse, thousands of people and god is great. according to rorts at one protest also chanting,olice, protect us. to age extent, the protesters were met witholice batons and tear ga reporter, still forbidden to cover thprotests. once again we're countinon the people. counting on wiesses, and particants to somehow get outwarand to get out images of what's happening in their country. and the best wcan do, pass it on to you. joining us now is nbc's chie correspondent richd engel. thanks for coming in. >> it's real pleasure. >> h important is it that people turned out by the thousands in spite of ese well-publicizeovert threats thould be crushed if they did. >> it's a new tactic. they thought the strt protests was over.

it looked like it s over. 11 days the streets of tehn were fairly quiet. we s sawheheorganize and they managed toto cmumunite. this w organized the last several ysver the internet, ll phones and text messages in tehran. they came out in ratively small numbers, maybe 2,0, 3,00 according to a variety of reports. it only lasted a few hou, but it was able,hey were able to show the street ment is still iv this is thkind of hit-and-run tact i think you'll see them doing. every once ia whilthey'll gather steam, go out and know they'll take lks and confront violence, but then retre just so they can keep tpart of the movement ave. >> iraan american observers have been telling us to get used to a different pacacing rere this might be e yeyearr more, th the fate of the oppososioion will not be decidedeinin t short rmrm. es this tactic imply t tt t is trueue? >> absolutely. ififhey try to go out withth ts of thousands or r enen hdreds of

thouousandofofeople every single day and have people e ttttin killed as wawas thcaca in the early dada o of is opposition, it would die out q qckckly now you haveve h hitnd-run strategy. every once in a whilile u u pu yo chips together, you c ch h them in and you reretrt t bere ere is any major lossese it's also difficulult anprprably impossible for thehem d do this stage v vy y lae protests. hundredsds, n noteveral thousand people e ha b bee rereed, many have simply sappeared. ththe e arwidespread reports of mistreatment.. the people who are o organinin this are o offhehe seets. > h d do u quantify or can you ananfy from outside the relativeve vueue oessentially creating martyrsrs, thth bpeople being killed and injureded and pepeopleeiei disappeared, put under hohoe e arst? the relative valueue of atats a gagaanizing force of the movement versus the e titimition factor? > ihink they are trying to o embarrasass e e reme, not only exrnally.

rrrrtly the iranian governrnme has taken a serious s acack e externallyly. they a are n t ting to embarrass iran any more inin fntnt othe inteteatatiol community. now it's aboutut conncncg the religigious tataishment that whwh t theovernment is doing is wrong. d trying to exploit didisision thth a areithin the government already. there are e ma s senr clerics in iriranho believe in the ththcracy, who believe in n th system, but don't agage e wi the way the gogovemements handling it.. these are e peop w w live in places and they don't t li w wha iran has becomome. they can quint this c comninity to act and to sasay th i inot what we signeded up r r en we wanted a theocraracy tt t uld be inspired by y devi l l, not a mililita s sta that is teterving, crushing civilian protests. > in hehewords, watch the rerelious establishment to t t

exexntnt wcan for a sign of success? >>bsolutely. it doesn't matter sosoucuch at ananceitaly and the united states says at this s stag ththerwiwillrobably be more ves to isolate iran internrnatnanallthrough sanctions. m m re that's coming. it's morore abt t barrassing the regi w whin and convincing senior peoeople atathat's happening isis wngng. >> richard engel nbcbc newchchf internatatiol l coespondent, ththan so much. > freesesiven to us by the publican party this susuerer. for examplple,ululli a palin and hihiki the appalachian trailil stay tununed.

you have questionsns who can give you the finaial advice you need? whe will you find the stabity and resources to keep you ahead ofhihis rapidly evolving world?? thesese are toh questions. that's why we bro together two of the mo powerful names inhendustry. inintroducing morgan stanley smsmith barnrn. hereo rethink wealth m managemen he to answer... yoururstio. morgan stanleymimith barney. a new wealththmanagemenm th over 130 years of expernce.

kentones! >> with our ever-morphing, increasing language,erriam weter added new entries to the dictionary. >> carbon foot print. thnegative impact that something a pernal business has on the eironment. see al, america, united states . reggae tone, popular musicf puerto rican origin that combines rap with cariean music. see also rrr. staycation, a vacation spent at home or neby. see also bush,conomic hardship caed by policies of. frenemy,ne who pretends to be a friend buts an enemy. >> sock pocket, us f deceptive purposes. my oine name.

fan fiction. stories involving popular fictional chacters written by fans and posted on the internet. see also gollum, love sty by rd bloodskull thorhammer. flash fub, a specified te to rform a specific action. see also pants, shiny genie. >> what i wa to know were the hammer pants peotrained in advance is everybody expected to know this dan? >> i don't know. everody knew the hammer dance. >> very imessive. thank u very much, kent. ank you also for the insight burt and ern for frenemy sen.