>>e maintained until the v very end of the interviview that was st a dusty, determineded traveler who camame from aong ways a away tory to get honest rk. the problem with t tt, of course, , that ne of it makes sense. when yououut it together, the chat, hihis crumblg story and the fact that you knknow, he the guy sisiing inhe kitchen acacross fm me, you know it doesn't look good fofohim. >> t young man i thought w w supposed to bebe here -- >hat's at person's name? > scott w supposed to be here and he didn't mention hihis name i said l look -- >> who is scotott? >> the guy i was supupposed meet. i was told - -- >> you work construcucon? > i wasooking for any kind of job. >> youou don'tork right now? >> n

captions p paid foby nbc-universasal televion this susunday, wh the president on the world ststage, his a anda i under fire bacac home. critics charge h h stimulus plan is stuck, whihi the numbeber of unemployed ameririns connues to clim and mocrats appear in disasaay over t the president's massive heth care overhaul memeanwhil the political worldl reremains puzzled by palin. after r abrt resignation, what's next for her a and the g? with us, the m m w put her on the litical map byy cosing r as his rununningate durining the 2008 presidentiaial campgn, john mccain.

then the vieiew fromhe other side o the aisle. new york senenor chu scmer. finay, the take f from our political roundtable. kakarenhughgh, replican strategist and formemer counsel to presidede george w. bush, bob sh ru democratic stregist anand senio advis to the gore an kerryresidential campaign, and andrea mitchehe, nbc news chief foreigngn affairs,nd roger simon, "litico" chief litical columnist. fifit,enator john mccccn. welcomee backo "meett the press."" always happy to have you here. want to stata wit breaking news this morning. the front storyn "thehe "new yo times"" is that former vice presidenen d dick chey k kept ngress in the dark, h his orde, to keep congress in ththe darkrkbout a cia progm. it's's a program that cia direcr pin eta has now shut d downnd briefed congressssboutit. what's your reaeaction tooit? >> i am not onhe intelligence

committee. i don't knknow what the detetaif thth are and the vicice prident, ink, should obvioususly be heard from iff allegations are levelled i in his rection. clearly, the replicans did not sign a lter apparenently that was written alleginin this, so think it's f frankly t early for us to reach a nclusion. >>t doesn't a appear as if a lines were crossed in y your judgnt? >> i d d't kno because, again, a a lot of ts is anonymous soces and this is -- if i know washington,his is the beginning of a pretty involold and detaileled story, andnd i d have enough information, b b think lot more is to o come on this >> shouldd there b an instigation, do you thinink? >> ion't know if -- first of l, i would like t to kw the facts of t case before therere should be,, quote, an vestigation. how lo did the director offhe cia know a abouthis program, and when did he terminanate , a a all l of the things are going

to -- a are probably goingng tb heavilily discusd in the weeks ahead. >>peaking aboutut investstigatio, there's no word from"nsweek gazine t today that thettorney general is getting closerer to iestigating leged torture duringg the bush administration. th is the repepting from daniel klkliedman for s sources sayingg he is now thinkingng about appointing a prosecutor to invtigate the bu administration's brurul interrogation prpractice would thatat be a gd idea? no. i fought againstst warboarding and said wateoarding was treatment. we passed the detainee treatmemt act whwhh probited cruel and inhuma treatment. i ha spokenn out as fororcefull asas possibl everywhe against what went on and thatt w need -- it harms u us so much arorod th world whwhen photographs come o. we all k kw that bad thingngs we done. we all knoww tt the operaves who did it mt likel were

under orders t to do so. r us to continue this and harm ourmage toughout the world, igree with the president of the united states. it time to move fororwardnd nomove back. >> where iss the accountabilili? >> well, t t accountatability, obobously,s people's reputations haha beenarmed very badly. the ququestion is do we want america'a's imagege harmed more draggiging thisut further and further? what's going to be the posive relt from airining o and ventntilatindetails of what we alreadynew tooook place and should never h he and we are committed t toaking surur nevev happenss again? i do o t excuse it. i'm ju sayingg whas the affect on america'a' image in te wod. i don't t an torag out my answer, but i did meet with a high ranking member of al qaed in prison in iraq who said his greatest recruiting too wasas te piures a abu grab. we don't wanant too give the teterroristsnd theadical islamiisisla

islamic extremists m me too and help t their recruiting in this ongoing strtrugglee're in.. >> let mee turn to polilicy. you must have been scked to see governoror sarah palin resi governor. >> i wasn't shocked.d. obvisly, i was a bit surpsed, but iasn't ocked. understand that sarah me a decision where s she can be m m effefective f aska and forhe untry. i lolove and rpect her and here faly. i'm g gratefulhat she agree to n with me. i am cfident she wilill be a jor ftor ithe national ene and in alaa as well zoososbut y say you were surprisea little bit. why? >> well, because shead not caed me. discussed it sincnc and i tter understand the r rsons fofor herdecision. >> what werethey? >> well, howould she b best serve? how could she most effectively serve alaska andnd t countrtr and that was herer -- >> but, senator, you have a

reputationonf personal and professional ughness and stick-to-it-tivenessss. you sought the higigst rol in the nd, president of thee united statete you never quit. >> i don't t tnk shequit. i think she chang -- >> she made a proromiseo voters to serve out h h term,, didn't she? > don'tnow if thehere was a "promise." do know that she will l an effective plplayer on the n natl stag and i will say iave never seen a a sustained persos fafamily attks tha were madee o sarah palin and her family in my life. carl canon has aery interesting p pce about the media establiliment a the attacks that werere made on her and i'm se that thahat had some imimct. eth ethics chargee afterethics chargege. hundreds of thoususds ofollars rth of legal fees the facts she i is very popar withur republican base.. she will bebe a a song voic i chose herer because she i i a

reformer, bebeuse s beat an incucuent gornor, she was popular r republan of hererwn party. she igned our base. shdid a great job as my running matete, even underer th most stained personal a attacks in certain recenent amecan polilitics. >> you have sustaineded persol totoure, psonal attack, popotical tack, investstigation. you have never r resigned from anytything. is it consiststentith your alities of leaeadershi to reresign anlected post like this? >> sur >> it t ? >> i you can bee -- the queion is how can you sererveost effectely? sarah an todd and herer famil made a decision that she c be st effective by stetepping down, and she did. i respect thatt positioio andndt decision, andd c cannot tell yo the apprpriation have for her. >> you think she's qualified to seekekighest office in the land? >> know she's qualified. >> had he is qualied? >> re.

>>o doubt about it? > she has all t right ininstincts. she has allll the right prininciples. she was a yor. she was governor. she undersrstands t c cllenge that families face. shsh has a greatat background, i am confidedent that she wl contue to play, as i say, a a importanant role. >> if she s sks t presidency in 2012,ouould endorsese her? i thihit's way too early for th kind of thingecause e obvisly has not made tha decision yet, and traditionanal, those of us who are t nominees have waited at leastt -- l long riod otime before we got into that. we g aot of good, strong, young, attractive,rticule spokespersons s r ourarty and our princiciples. >> cananou undstand how people would thk it's strange. you vouched foror her in front th country, that she qualified fothe highest position in ththe lala. yet, youou're no prepared to endorse her now? >> i mean, g grge bush -- ronond reagan didn't endse georgee heer walkerush untililhe year of the electi.

i mean it's just way t too earl. i'm m nfiden she would make a fi president. the estions what'ss the w whole politicacal scenario? >>o you think she's's run? >> i don't know.. i know she willl py a major roro. i know she h has the abilility ignite o party and to galvanize us andndet us going again anddive u a rong, sitive message. >> one more onn this. your tsted advisor mikee murphy wrote this w week sothing very pointe he wrorote thatovernor sarah palin the political train eck that keeps on ging. first she wasn awful cice for lastst year's john mccaiain aran mat an inexperieienced govnor of a smalall stat she lacked experience a and broht nothing to thehe tick. itit was aentrality eeeejically awful choicece. owing everything you kno now, would you picic her again? >> absolutely. in all due respect to those who like t kinof examine the entrai and look backk washed, the fact is we were three points ahahead oneptember 15th, and the

stk market crashed, and we wentnt sevenoints down. rah pin ignited our partrt we were winning, and wee could haven, but i'm proud o the campaign, andd i'm pud off t peop around . i'mrateful forheir pport. i love em. i am proroud to have had theonor beingg the nominee of the party of abrahaham lincoln andheodore roososelt an ronald reagan. i ll remain so. >> isshe ahe of the packk i terms leaders of thiss party going forwrward? >> i d don't kn. recentoll i s saw sws she and mitt romney and hkabeeeery tight. it's way too rly. uight rember in 2007 m my cacampaign w dead. >> remember well. and you camee back. let me switch geaears andalk about e president ofhe ited states currently y d that's baracobama and his performance. lookt the recent pololumbers th came out, and i ithows declinining suort. his approval r ring now 58%.%. back inn january it wass at 66%. what's youour assessment of howe is performing? >> well, first of all, hisis mbers are still strong, so

it's relative. second of alall, i think amemers ununrstandly are becoming very, very concerned aboutut t deep, deep politicalal a economic debtt thate are laying on futureenerations of americans. were committing generatatnal thef justst lasteek t the estate of theeficitas .1 trilln just f the first nin months. $1.8.8 trlion. th's by a factor off two. the highestn any time - -- peace ti i history. we arepending and s snding and spendi. who fifi month agogo tught we woulown chrysler and general mototo? who thought w we woul own aig? who thougught we wod own all these banks and instititions? itit's the most massive movoven fr the free enterise system to the government in t the histo of t ts couny. >> the preredent says be tient. how much moree patiee do you ve? >>well, i alsoo think i it was interesting. the president uses a very

effectiv rhetoricacal ploy.. he says - -- he sets up t the posion of the -- likike h said, therere are t thoseho said we e wanted to doo noing. who was that? wanted to have a stimulus papaage. we wanted onene thatould help small busiss. ththe generator ofobs in this country that would cutut thehe corporatat tax from 35 too 25 a helpmall binesses buy equipment and hirire peopl a and wowould hav immediate shovel-ready projojects, an we prededted th most of the stimulus package t that was pasd through h the sene in a p ptisan fafashion wld notaveny reall short-t-term fect, so, g guess wh, we're finding out onlnly10% much the m money has been spent. a lolot of i has been on rididiculousojects. say with reect, wee republblicans h a positive alternive. itit was und$4 billion. we had a an alternative budget we hadn a aernati to the omnibus spendg bill. >> 40% of the stimumulus packag

included taxaxcu. > it cluded tax cuts,ut a lot them are in t the wrong direction. y not make sure we fococedn smalbusiness and, alsoso, o corprporatio which now have the highest tax rat of any -- of any country ithe world. >> here's w what his top econom advisor r said thi week. people know thahat proems of this seriousness canante turned around inix months or nine months. ne of the president's strerengths a s his extraordinaryy cananr the president has bebe hones with the e americ people about t the enororty of the c challen and the amount of time i i will tak to turn thihis around. then t the presint yesterday in his radio addddress said t ts recovevery act hasorked as intendnd. is he leveling w with th americn people? well i'm se the preredent is doingng everying that he can to try to help thihiseconomy. >> but is he leveling? he being straight?? >> well, h he is either not leveling now or hee wasn't leveli at the time of the passage of the stitilus pacacka becaususthey sd the maximum unemployment would be at 8%.

ththat's wha they told us. it's 5%, going too 10%. they said most t these p projet werere shovel-ready, and the moy would go out v vyquicickly. we know now that hasas n happeneded, and en that % is a little deceieiving becse it hasn't been us. whathey promised uss would be the result of the s smulus in a short-termrm and has t turned o not to be trueue i'm not s sayingt's not leveling, but it's certainly not factuaually coect because they said unempmpyment uld be a maximum of 8% and probablbly oser t 7%. >> could y you suprt a secondd stimus plan if it comesdown? >> i think thahat woulde the biggest mistak we could evever make why don'tt we focus on tax cuts, on small businesses? why don't weensteadf saying we're going toncrease taxes t pay for heah care reform, whyhy don't wewe say, lookok let ease is burden on the small businenesses rticularly, and i keep going back to that. who generateses jobs i in amera? not neral mototors. not chrysler.

people that generate jobs in amica are small business people who all over, a allver my hometo of phoenix,x, arizizona, arare shutti the storefront terprises of theieirs,and, ye genera motors is too big to fail ando is aig, b but they're too small to save there's something wroro with that picturure, andhat's why the american p pple ar unhappy. you mentitioned heah care reform. thiss what the preside said backn march. he said this is c ctical to the erall financial healthh of t country. listen. if we want to create joband build our economy and get our federa budget undnder control, then we he to addreress the crushing costt of health care this year. >> do you agree? >> i agree that we need t reform health h care ande need to mak it affordable and availalable, b we are losingg sight ofofhe fac that the hight quality health care e the world is inn the uted stateses of erica. thatat must preserveve so t key, whatte should be focussing on, is affordability and availability for a amerericans. i don't think k at the propososals ar doingthat.

i was in houston. people -- s senator m mcconne a senator -- people frfrom the 0 countrtries fr all overtime worlwere there. the st, higighest quality health care is in america. 's the cost that's t problem. >> a you prepared to suppo what thehe adminisation proposes on healtlth care? >> ll,he latest w was by cbo -- the congressioional biolical office after sayaying we're a trillion dollars short d only covered one-ird of the people who a auninred. w abou half hour of tm are uninred under this plan. ok, we got to give peoeoe the ability y to go aoss state lines to get the health insurance e of theieichoice we've gotot to have -- we're in agreement on prevention, on wellne, on trying to havave outcome-basesed heal care. a a whole lot of thingng we' in agreement on. hehould be sitting dn across the table not tryin to do w what theyey did wit the stimulus

ckage, with the bubuet, an with a the othersrs, a that is pickck off a couplerepublicans. let's sit down andnd have some real conversations,s,omeeal nenetiatio rather than the charade e that we' been going ththrough. >> the house says -- hou democrs say we need to raise tas. a tax s schargen order to pay for itit. does t tt kil this effort?? >> i donon knowf it kills the effort, but it killed our economy. don't think there's anyny rationale f for raisingng taxax anybody atthis particularr time andn the onomicifficulties that we're in. look, malpractice reform is ananother thing that's been tak ofthe table. we need toavehat as well. at could save us tens of billions off dlash dlars a ar because of thehe praice of densive medicine that d dtors have to engagage in. a couple of foreign poly notes. lookokt thetriking statiststic out of afghahastan reased this weweek. the number ofof adside bomb incints, these are the one that were succecessful th hurur or killeled peoe back in june oo 2007, june of 2009. to 82.

ththat's goto trouble you. >> it troubd meenormously, t wee all knew t that once we went into areashat have been ntrolled b by the taban, particularly i in helmud provin andhe south, c casualts would up. took a terririble blow this week withh ten brititisholdiers killed in one day. this is going t tbe lon and hard a a toug and i wanant to work with t t present, but we've gotot to remememberhat workrked iniraq, and d at is i reires additional t troops if nececeary. listen to our military aders. i saw on the front pe of "the post" neral mcchrysl says we need more trps. let'tell the american peoeoe how tough it is for us, telel ththem whas at stake, and i want to work w wh theresident and make sure we win this thing, but let't's notry to go bk to the rumsfeld era of tryg to just go out, kill people, ave, and trto get out of there.e. >> is that theisk of this administraration no >> t tt's thrisk. thatat's therisk. >> youhink we need more troops? >> i know that we shouldld list

gener mcchrystal and leaders on theheroundwho, according to newss rerts, not my infoformatio say we are goi toeed additionana tops in order to r really secure. we talk about economic, polititical, mitary. first you've got to provide a secure environment. we proved that tim after time. >> in terms o iran, the president says by september they abandoned the program, get into negotiationed or face consequences. what does this administrion have to do to get them t abandon a nuclear program? >> look, this is one o the toughest chaenges we face. we all want to wk with the president. meaningful sanions need to be imposed, but also we needo tell the people of in we' struggling for ae democracy in an open society and elections that are fr. i'mot talking about sending arms. i think the seminolevent was the death of ne on the street that wasroadca all around the rld. that will fundamently change

the future of iran bause she was the symbol of an oppressive and repressi regime, d i thk the winds of change will even bw through iran. now, wheth it does quickly or not isard to say. we didn't predict the colpse of t berlin wall, b it happened, and i believe that in iran sometng isfoot that can't be stped. >> before u go,re you prepared to support son sodomayor? >> won't see the hearings, obviously. those are a ver critical part. obviously, she's a great american success story,nd we all respect and admire that. i just like toee the hearings and watch very closely starting on monday. >> all right. senator mccain, thank yo >>hanks foraving me back on. up next, the oer side of the debate, democratic senator chuck schumer joins us. plus, our politicalroundtable. on on "meet the press."

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and you're already up to a thousand yarar ininusust lf an hour. that's why you n neea a dier thatatlelexe in all the r rhtht pces. cruisers witith mfmforflex. ititlelexeto fit in h higmomoon areas, especially around the legs and waist. it's our best fit evev to help p st l lea no matatr r homuch you move. cruisers, with c comrtrtlex. ♪ from pampepers > w we' back. joined by senatoror chuck s sch n newyork. welclce e ba to "meet the prpres" this white h hou i ion the defensive ababtt t stimulus plplanndndhe economy. over the course of the s sumrr vi p predent biden has been

out talking a abo t the projections ththenndnd no thth s sai with thetitilus plan they would keep umployment to 8%8% heree was back in juneen this prograra >> this package wasas sddn the premise that i iwod, in fact, keep umpmployment at 8%. it's e excdeded that w wit the stimulus plan. >> no, no,. itasast sold on that.. it was s sdd o it would crcrte -- i it said -- what haenen was itouould savave or createtejojobs it's doing th. it i i doing at. evyoyo guessed wngng at the ti the estimate wasadade about what the s stete othe economy was, at t th m momt this was passed. everybody guessed wrwrg.g. this is what hee sdd back on juju 5 5 at c.c. th t tru is we and everyone elel misreded - misread the economy. d you? >> y y h had whole new woworl iad never seeee anything like this experience. think none of u veve. nanancl markets froze. just think, bacackn december and january, most peoeopl s sai there's a 25%, 50% chance w we

gog to be in the greatat depresessi, , d the good thing that t t p predent is doing is two-foldld one, heasas strong medicinee agagait t . sendnd, has a long-term t tim horizon.n. he is nottoioi to be bnced around by what happppen t tod o expoportnunuers, which we good or what happenss on consumemer nfidence, which was ba anand en keep adststin soso i think ththat yes, the economy isvery,erery important. probably number one to the erican people, but t t presesidt t s their confidence.. he is doing aooood job, and it's ing to work well. >> i asked you iou misrsrdd this. yoyoararehe senator from new york. u u ha your finger on thee pulse of the fininanalalenter of this country. is is a l lt of economistss and others who s sai that ununemoyoyme would be worse than the adadmiststraon anticipatete do you agree thahatveverye got it wrong, o or didid t the white get it wrong? >> well, bottom linin is i tnk thesesmates were all overr t ace,ndnd everyone saidd i it' veveryard to crtrt this out, because, again, we were in unchartered wate. >> thereere certainly people who said unemployment d get worse, you need a much bigger

stimulus, they have got the wrong medicine. >> there were many, mostly many on the replican side and elsewhere, who said we need a smallestimulus, and we don need this kinof thing. the president -- i an, i remember lar somers and others saying we'reryingo get t numb gh but erring on the side of havin it higher because the downide is signifant. >> so you put yoursfn their t? you misread it as wells they did? >> i wouldn't characterize them or me as misreading yogive the best estimate you can. iidn't make a projection as to what the nber would be we knew it was bad. we need we needederious medicine. >> let's talk about the stulus. in new york state ts is what the gao, gernment acting office, by the new york post. new yorkas spent only about 22 of the federal stimus set aside for the ste, and thegao reportevealed that most of the money is being used just to keep governments afloat, rather than to create jobs. this is apparent happeng all over the country. that was themulusesned to plug holes in government financing at a state level? >> it was desned to do many

things. immediately, it had to getome ney into the econom if you remember - you can quote l those economis -- the danger of going into wt economts cald a deflationary spiral, whereris go down, moreobs are lost, prices go down further, was a nightmare because once you getnto a deflationary spiral, n moderate, libel, conservative, knows how to get out. you had to avoid that at all cost. tting money quickly into the economy, whi is what the government typ spending did was the first stage. now we're in the second phase. money still contiing to go to the government. >> but is it too slow look at the numbers out ofew york. >> this is not fo-month plan or two-month an. when you have such an awful situation, the worst economy that we've hadn december t president is hamstrung because the usual tools of getting out of recession wasowering intest rates, but interest tes were already at 1%. you need a strong long-term plan that has a number of stages. now you're goingo see the second part of the st, which the job creation par really

kick in. >> you're not disappointed wh what's happening at the state level? >> i amnot. m beginning to see project inup state nework, new york city,he new yk city suburbs begin to g going i s the people woin a loof construction going on that i didn't see three mons ago, and tha money is going to start coursin into the veins of the onomy. >> more broadly on the economy, ck in april the president sounded fairlyoptimistic. this is what i said. >> there's no dbt that times are still tough. by no means are we out of the wos just yet. from where we stand, for the very first time we're beginning toee glimmers of pe. et's look at the numbers. rst six weeks inoffice. unemployment up approximate2%. job losses 3.4 million, and the deficit is up%. are those glimmers of hope? >> no, but there are gmmers of hope. th's the b news and there's lots of bad news let ust say, lookthere we were nuary 20th when the presidengot into office and today. therare some good things.

the financial syste hardly recovered, but is t frozen. i no longer hear day after day reports from small busisses, middle size businesses, they caget money anywherend ey're going under. that created auge problem, cread last fall and last summer. not dealt with. that has ramifications on into this ecom exrts are up parts of manufacturi is up. consumer spending which was going down, is now flat. this is noth knowhe good thing about barack obama,ne of the many good things abo our president, he has a longerm perspective, and has an inrnal gyroscop he is notoing to get jarred by one month number or one month's pollin data. has his eye focused on the goal. the econo will be better, gradually, but certainly, and he is going to get us there,nd i think, by the way, i would say -- maybe i'mmisreading it, but i don't thinso -- the american people have confidenc in the presidentetting out of this mess. >> l's talk about health care. his signare achievement that he wts domestically, wille

get health care reform, a massive overhaul? >> we don't eect it to be siednto law then, but we exct the house and senate t have passed bills, yes. >> do you think it's goi to happen? >> do. the b claim he is making i thats neutral. it's not goingo add to the debt. a trillion dollar program. the big question is how is it going to be pd for? a couple of gs out there, and one is to offset the price the $300 billion and tw tax some of the benefits. could you supporthat? >> i think what we've learned over the lastk on both ses of theisle, peopleo not want to tax the benefit democrats and republins and givewhat the house has done, given a majory of democrats are againsted taxing benefits, i n't think that's going to happen. do you think aax surcharge house democrats are going t propose on the wealthiest americans hgs that the way to make up $550 billion? >> let me say couple of things. first, the number one tng we have to do to pay for this trillion dollars is cut costs, and theresident has wisely

said the majority of this ckage -- a significant majority is going to be from cutting costs. the system is wasteful and inefficient. numberone. number two, w will have to find revenues to p forhe rest the ginning of this week everyonesaid, ll, we as u when we got specifics on the t befits that people weren't going for it. democrats and republicans. ke republicans were negotiati wi told chairman baucus forget it. now we're looking at other things. here'she good news, david wrshgs wednesda thursday the finance commtee, which is in charge of raising the money, we m met. wednesday, decrats. thsday, democrats and republicans. and laid out many diffent optis. there are a whole lot o opti we emerged from tt meeting on both sides of the aisle thinking this isdoable. i believe that the chairman goal to have plan that ps r it set by thendf this week will happen. now, to getnto the specifics -- i know you asked me about a spefic. obviously, the surcharge h a

benefit. it meets the president's goal of t taxing anybodyelow $250,000, but i think negotiate in public whenhere are manyifferent options is not going to be very helpful, so i'm not going to do that. >> a couple of quick points, jue sodomar, will she be proved? >> i think she'll get as many if not more votes th judge roberts got,hich was 78. she has wowed people. people that meet her are impressed. not just with her sty, but she's smt, b als practical. she's down to earth, and she makes areat impreson. the very impressn she's made onle the tors, she's going to make the millis of americans as they watch the hearings, she is going to be approved by a large margin. >> y heard senator mccain oppoto the idea of an investigation into the alleg torture during the bush ministration. where do you come down? >> i generally believe tha wit the prident and john mccain is looking forward not backwar, but when there are egrejs

violatns, you can't brush them under the ru i think that the attorney general to look for egregious violations, ich is what he is doing now, is the right thing to do. is sarah pali the future o theepublican party? >> iuess i shouldn't jud and let them fight among themselves. >> what do you think? do you think she's qualified to be president? i think themerican peopl saw he and they saw problems in terms of preparation and knowledge things, but,ou know, three and a half years away is a lon time aw, so i'm not -- >> youe hedgingour bets, but you are very cloly alned. here it is from "field and stream" the political odd couple. there th are. senator sumer and governor palin, both heroes in "field stream." youannot walk awayrom how closely tied you two are. >> god bless amera. >> tha you very much. up next,ur pital roundtable ways in onll the

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we're back withth our roundtdtlele,emocratic stratetegi b bob shshru formerr unter toresident bush, karen hugheses,ndnda mitchchel o ofbc wsws and roger s son of "the politico." karen is in from stin, tetexa we apprereciee hing you here. a lot to talk ababt. roger simon, w wan to startt with sarah palin. i thought s senoror mccain wawas rather strikikgg in h comments today. onhe one hand he s sd he was susurpsed that she stepped dodon howw cldld he not bee givenen h record as a lilitian, as a senator, ass a leader? is this the s sam personee chose toto bononis ticketet? >> i thihi i it theamame pepers. if the r replilins were choososn nomineedaday, i i believehey wodd cose sarah palin. the republblic party has collapsed like a srroing nova totsts dsest core of conservative vovorsrs. sarah palin speakaksoo that cor. now,he man dadari,, the elites don't lilikeher.

she's not of theiririlk. she ishehe skunk atheheir garden pay. they belelveve,s some inhe mea a beeve, that the highehest rm offolitical skill andnd authenticityty today is too flawawsssslyead a speech from a leprompter that somebody y el has writittefoyou. that's not sarah papan.n. lolo, she's not gng to beat barack obaba,, b all she has too s beat timim wlenty, bobobby ndndelmitt roromn.. e e yosaying sheououldt beat tttt romney? >> am stronglgl for her. i endndor h her forhehe republin nonomition in 2012. i think sot a a real problem with the rerepuicics. ey have a survivava instinct, d she said yesterdayyhahathe wawamaybe going t to campaign f coervativedemocrats. that'secause a lot ofenz don't want her to c camign for hem. that parartyululmately, when you saw itititithohn mccccn, you s it with b dole, t tyy minate -- they take t the next person in line. i think tt's probably mitt roroey. i agrereeitith u. e'e's t a big base,ndnd i inink e might win the

nonanaon. hohopehe doeses. >> senatoror mccain jtt said he ageeith her. he thinks it helelpserstandingn. ththat in the best intereses o hersrs gngngforward. it o oka to resign. i my senator m mccn is inn diicict position. hehe chose herer ais nominee. he wants to s suprtrt h and her family.. i was surprised.d. i was puzzled. she soughghthahat fice. i rerembmberhen i workedoror govevern bu, and he d deced run f f r re-ection as g govnor oftexas. even when h hee was being mentid as presidedeiaialandidate, he felt i it ss iortant to have that seal o of approval,, t ttt rerelection from the vovote.. he w w v ver honest withh tm and said i d don know whethther i wl or won't't r f f president. i want you to make that a a a factor in your dedecion. wawaururpred and somewhat puled. i thinin t theeeks and months ahahd are going to be very itical for sarah palin. she's got a lot offcharm. i like r. e'e' feisisty she's s maverick. there's a aine line b bweween maverick a and quirky, and s s ththk she has to bebeereryareful that thehe next step sheakes are very ththoutful and that s she relylyhinks them through before she takes emem.

>> aneaea before we hrrrom you, we have t toee -- thihiisi ananea mitchell, live onhe scee in atatlaa.a. these are s somofof t still photos in yourwaders. most people don't knonow that y actually t trallitith fishing gear in your psesen asassimeme. look attthis. look at the ososhgtrtragnn this small fishingng v vilge of governor palin to s spe her peace and look at this media scm there. here i is question thahat y answer about her future. tctch. >> can y y i imane yourself ruruing for esesidt? >> i donon'tnono whathehe futut holds. can'n't ededic what the nextt fs run n isoioi to look like, much less what's goingg t h hpen in a couple of yeyear my focus is o on my state ill, d it always will be, and m mimilynd what is b bes for them.. what is btt for them is to n no n n r re-election and t to avoid lame-duck, wasteful session i aa falal yr of ofcece >>ss that -- i anan, this is the ququesonon i posed to senat mccccn,n, which is is shishging

from those fights thee way you demonstratee ldedehip in a republblanan pty? >> i thinknk t tt iserer big fl right now, bause even in alaska, evev i inerer h homowow where people are enormously susuororti of her, wherereeoeoe loloveher, t tyy said we're r ry disappointed bececsese she quit , , th quitter label does atch to r.r. the e otrrroblem is, lolo,, shshe' r rlly wa.. e was acting i t tnk on balalf h herfamily, whihich we hurting and she needed to do something about at. shshe s very dplplhappy. shs got enormouscharm, and she's feisty. she is attractiveve lordrd owow she e ha t to have a a coherentd view t tbebehe republican nominee, and the reasonn why sh was so ram belling inhahat fridid s stament and didn't really fix ittn herntnterews withanan of us that she doesn't -- shehe's not deeeepl readad. she hasn't thougug through a lot of these tngngs,nd you have to t tt a a a national candidate.

>> can a leadeder the republican party chartrt a new course wititutut rl new ideas and a new dirececti f for the party? other words, does the republican party t toetet back power n nee a a fundamement overerulul i terms o ofore position? >> think, obviously, any tee a a pay is out of por, there's a lot of t tal abobo t csisi in the party andew leaeade a a w w voes will emergege b but i inink thehe next -- a we movove ththe 1010 elections, as w we m toto 12 that the leaders who ememer will have to havee sisi. it willl heeo be an optimisticc vivionon, d i think they have to make the casee t tha ours is an inviviti pay, a welcoming party, thatt wwawa people to jojoinus, ttt welieve that our philosophyy of educatingng children, of provididingeaealt care in a a fisiscayyound way, f putting moneyey bkknto people's pockets ratherer tnn this masasi build-up of debeb a andpending that we're seeing u und t t obamama mimistration will have to make the case tt t r policies are, in fact, the bese licies to take thihi c coury forwarard, and we havetitill a cotrtry at is largely center ght and that is inclined wantnt to hear from usus. i thinink eemportant thing is that we haha a an optimistiticnd

visionaryy messengeger. >> i was g gngng tsay, which never r do t tha i lgely agreed with you untililou got t that part about thehe country's l lgy nter right. i i sd something onon . yo said the republican pararty needed a posititivvivisi. i i thk that's the r rea proble right now.w. it is coming across asas t p pty of no. lookok,ffbama fails, if the stam lis fails, if t economy goes badly, r rublicans would bebenet anyway. thth don't have to getutut there and chchrlead for failurur whih is what they're doioingigightno, anan i if we see signs of r rov ne year, inn 20 or 2012rere what a actllll matter. i think republicaca w wilbe pushsh badlyly for being se lors and for lookinglmlmos lilikehehewere rooting for obama to fail, which means the ececomy -- > idisagree with th, david. i thininkhahate're seeing r rht noisis thatt psident oba'a' policies, unfortrtunelel are failing,ndnd we're very concerned abouout that. we've moved f fro - - >> that'ss le saying whyhy didnt berlininalallhe day after dada wewe'ronly at the beginningngf this process. >> if w we' looking at obama's

general peperfmance, first of all, look at thee j approrova numbers. potitilly sensitive ohio.. approval in february 67%. theolitical andnd f fincial realitiess a that t thehey havet met expectations t tha ty set t for the s stilulu plan. the presidenttalalke about glimmemersff hope. we see anyththin but o ove t fit six ntnt. as a politicalalatatte and a financial matter,, a s sator mccain said, he i is tt levelin now or heeasasn' levelingthen. sothing is not adding up. >> the rocock sr hasome t an tetermsion here. baback obama now owns the onomy. itit'shihis. the americananeoeopl are holdin hi responsible.e. we passed a 80 blilion econonicic rovery bill in nebraskaka,ndnds was pointed out,t,inince thene'e'veost 2.4 llllio jobs.. we have spent b bilonons and billions of t t recovery moy,y, and peopop a wonondengng where are thehe jobsbs? barack obama s sss wve got two yeyes. this is s atwo-yearplan.

uck schchereraid we've got t t years. thth d don have two yeyes. th congressional e eleions are november o of 20. ththey got t to show progress be then. >> i t thi a b b test will be etethethey at leastanan get some agrgreentnt o health care before the r recs s on the hses de. theeenenat is going to o beore difficult.t. that is a huguge problelem,ndnd we've got a prorosasal fromhehe house demococra a a charlie rangel f fornn incncee t -- s rtrtax even amongngouou dbs democrats in the houseset will beough sell. usus,he o oba administration has scored this whh the congngreioiol budget office, and they've figured out that rather th j jt- raise 0000 billion towards the h hltlth re costs, the cost of insuring the ununiinu inunsure inunsured, bututftfteren years thosose mbmbs block sharply. in t theututears unlnles tre e e mar savings f fro health care reform, you know, out there, y yourere gng too have a huge balloon of eenendires in

ten years out, and thahat gng y a big debatat >> theigigesson from 1 19 the 3's failure offeaealtcare reform is congressss h to h hava say. corere is having a sasa unrtrtately, it's i ineveral dierent direction on how y you pay for i it andheheth there will be a p pubcc plan. i'm fascinanate b by this. in the political a aedia class we want the i insntnt gratifificioi gratifificioions we have a atotorybout doom's day mimi everythther day. by thehe tee- when t tha delilinecomes, there will be bill. eyey wl come to a agreemenent. i believe e atat bl will passss and i thininkee wl sigig it. we ought to be very, vy caful. no. he said by ocber. i i thk we haveo o very, v ver cacarel about these kinds of juments. likekehehe j loss. we were losingg 7000000 jobs a month injanuary. we're now losing h hal that numberer obviously, it's goioingooake timeme t t tur this around. wewe he e 2,0 projectss dedeay. 20,000 approved. the ark off t stimululu i is on ginning to jolt t economy. the same thingng iss g goi to happen with h heah h re. we'll l geitit out there. by the way, the c cos savings te

cece calculates 1.5% aeaea it terms of loweringng micic inflationnndnd will raisesegdp d lowewe t the deficit. >> why shouldn't t the be me patience? why shouldn't the r replilica who o enent lot of timeepependg a a loof government money a undedewhwhos watch,h,hehe econo took the turn that i did? why shshldldn' there be more tience from the repubublin n aiaisl >> this was sosoldoohe american pele as an immededtete fix, and i i ininkob is now trying -- let me quote l lar sors. yollll s effect immemeatatel ristina roamer, w we' srt adding jobs, rather r th losing them. house majoritytyeaeade hoyer, theree wl l ben immediate jolt. thisis wll bin creating jobs memeately. inststea w we' seen a ls of 2.6 million. there has been aececne in the rate of ununemoyment. that's the immediate fix. plus, y have seen a l loonining upupffredit. we were on t the point of disasterer. i think they c can accurately ararguthat they have avoided

catastrophe, but -- >> that was avoideded last f en president bush t tkkhe politically ununpular step o threscue -- >> thinknk w wha george bush a gordon brown d did in britain t vevehe world banking system probably prereveeded an overaul finanaiaial llapse, but in january we were headed intoo a potentially very d dee r recsio or a a dpepe and d deerr recession, if not adepressionon and what the administratioion d has cut t t r rat of job loss, and i think, y y know, we ough to look at t ereret's going t t be nt septemberer. in next september peoplple thin things are rerecoring, the republican partyty wl l y a hefty price for itsattitude.. t theresident was warned thatt too mumuchff t smumus bill would not still lavsh, thahatt wod not lead to jobob that, it ssypical porkararre stuff that t the congress waed. wewehose notoo fight witith coreress now, in fairnessss, he was tryi to prerentnt a w wld economic collapse, but in taking this huge bilillhahatad a lot of stuff that wasasn'ovoveleady, hehe risked paying theririce th he is payingg for now.

that the jobssreren'coming. >> we've gone fmm the e eupriri of yes we can to t the deep wor of can we afford this. >> reagan w wtt through this i 19, , d, in fact, hisis approval rating, by the way,y, a t thi te was exactly the same a a amama' istoday. >> and u uneloyment went to 111 z in 1982. >> republicacanstataye with iti. despite ththdidiffulties in the mimierm election, they got to 1983. the recovery ca.. so didid morning i in america ao d the confirmation of thehe reaganan era. the real chal singe f f dedemoats rsh are they goioi t stick k wi t t presesidt?t? are thth g goi to get wobbly a afraid, bececau i i theheyon't ng together,, ty'y' hang separate. >> want to show some of t the pictctur.. the president t ss o the world ste this week while thehe debate wawastensifying. travavelg g russia and thenn t ghana. the pictures fromm g gha are striking justt fmmver the ekeken he visisit a slaveve prison wit his family. an emotional tour there. the rereononseuge from the people off ghana to mesh's f fs afafcacan-erican president. in terms o o igege abroad, k ke huhues, as a former c couelor to

eeresident and asomomeo who wass teaead of publilic diplomay at the state departmtmen a a ll. w w weear from the attorney general that hee i leaning totowa, accordingo "newsweek"k" putting a an independent osecutor in charge of instigating alleged tororrere riringhe bush administrationon do yougrgreeith that id? >> i think it's potentially very harmful because evevewhwher i trtravleled,s i haveried to reach out to halff o our country ararou t t world, and i i apppp presidenent amam for trying to reach out. that's exactly what p prededent bush askededee t do for two and a half years as t the undersecrereta of s sta for public plplomy. s som point it's more a matttter-- is less a mattete o are you p poparar or youroutreah as to are you effective. lelet'lolookt what happened this week. it was a great cture. solutely in africa. a very pererfumoment for the first afafrin-american, american president to go too tontinent ofof africa.. some of ththe inin that esesidtbabama said there sounded likeke echos o of presi bush, calling for more

trtranarency and for leadersrsf the continenentoo invest this ththr people, i invt in education and heheal.. let't's okok athe resultsff thth trip in ruruia. cece wds were exchanged, much as they werere w whe president titi and p predent bush back in ththr first meeting, and,, t, bybyhehe e of the week t prididenof russisi w basically warning o our a ameca president that there wilill no cu in weapons ifee doesn't abandon the missile defefen system.. at the g8 summit they kicked the can down the roroad they saidde'e'lleal with climate change and t therorobl of a nucucarar inn, andhe n. -- >>s he doingnynythg ght? >> i want to stitick on this. ouou there be accountability forlllleg tortutu yr honor the bush adadmiststraon? >> ass i r rd w wha holder i thinkingng autut doing, it's - we,oioiing someone to instigate people who acteded outside of the guguelelin set by the justice departmtmtt lawyers. i think ifhat is auauay wh's's ce to light, heoeoesn veveuch choice but toohat cacae what's been denende is

thth proposition thattinsidede thosose ididines we're not gng go after people. >> i want too button thiss u uph bobo of you on one topipi a think a keyeyoioint from this discscusonon is how willee know whether thehe president is lnlnable on his overall agendaa in terms o of going into thiss midterm r rac roger, i'lltata with you. quickly from both of u.u. > h will we knowf he i lnlnerle? >> or cccceeng. > wll see his poll numbebers for onone. we'll seeeowow the party does. he's -- this is --e'e's just coming back from a tririp. justst f a a cond. i i thk it makes a popoin is is the first triri he m me atat wn't triumphant, t tha the amereranan pple saw pictures of him in gha.a. theyeyerere ry warm and ototiol and good, but alalso peopople w we saying thouough themseseeses, u know, hee has a heheal care plan he wanants t t wrwrapp in gust, and is he in anana mimid-lyly i think alsoo gngng to be throw way off tck by this - he doesn't want the t tthth way off tck by this - he doesn't want the t tthth commission b becseset's going to

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