ptions paid for by nbnbc-iversal television >> is sunday, with t t presidident t t world stage, his agenda is und f fee back hohome ititiccharge his stimumulu p pla stk, while the number of emempled americans continues to climb. and democratatsppppea in disarry over the esesidt's massisi health carare overhaul. meanwhile, the p policical worl remains p puzededy palin.n. after her abrupt reresignioio what's's ntt f her and the gop? with ,, t man who per onn the politicacalapap by choosing her as h his running mate durin the 20088 p predential campaign

john maiai ththenhe view from the othth side of the aie.e. neyork senator chuck schumer. finally, thehe tak from o our polititill rounabab. karen hughes, republicann straratestst a formerouounsor to president grgrgw. bubush b sh ruk, d democtiti strategistt and senior advisorhe gore and kerry presidedeiaial mpmpai, anan a anda mitchell, n nbc n ieieforeign fairs, andogog simon, "politicoco"hihief politicacal comnmnt. >> first, senatoror jnn mccain. welcome back to "meet the press." alwaways hpypyo have you he. wa to start with breininnews ththisororni. the f fro story in"the "w w york titis"s"" is t thatororme e president dick cheney kept congressss in eedark, his orders, to k kpp cgress in the dark about a cia program. it's a prorogram that cia d dirr nn eta h nowow s st down and ieiefecongress about .. wh's's yr reaction to it

i i a notot on thentntelgence commmmite.e. don't know whatthehe details of this are and t the vice preside, i think, sululdbviously hehearfrom if allegegatio a a lelled in his directioio clclearl the republicansnsidid n gn a letter apparently t tha was s ititte alleging this,oo i ththk it's frankly too e elyly r t t reach a conclusisi.. >> it d dsn't appear assf any lines s wereroroed in your judgment? >> i don't know, becacause,agag, a lot of this issnonomous sourcess a t thiis - -- if i knw wawashinonon this isis t the begiinin of arey involved anan detailed sty,y, and i d't have e enohh ininfoation, but i think a lot m mor i to come onn this. >>hould there be an investigatation,o o u think? >> i don't k kno i if -- fifirs all, i w wou l lik to know t th fafacts off thease beforor ther shshld be, ququot an investigigatn.n. how long did t t d dirtor of the cianono about this prograram, a whenen d h heerminate it, and

all of these thingngs are g gng -- arerorobay going to be heavily discussed in n ee wks eaea >> speakining about investigations, therere' n noor frfrom "newsweekk magazine" tod that the attornenegegenel is ttttinclosero investigagating allegedd ttutureuring the busus admininistraonon this is ththe reporting fm m danielel kliedman. rr sourcesaying he i is now thinking about appoiointgg a ososecor to investigatete the bush admimiststraon's brutal inrrrration practices. wod that be a good idid?? >> no i ugug against waterboardrdg g andaiaid waterboardiningasas trtment. we pasassed the detetaieereatmet act which prohibitedd crund inhumane treaeatmen i havepoken out ass forcefully as possible everywhere agagasts wh went on and that weeed - itit h har us smuch around the rld when phohotogrhshsome out. we allll know thahat b things we do.. well know that the operatives oo didid i i most likelyere

dedeorders to do so.. for uss to c contieehis and harm our image throughouout th wowod i agree w with t t p prededentf the e ititedtates. it's time e toovove forward and not move back w whe is the acuntability? >>ll, the countability, obviously, is peopople's rereputions have been harmed d very badly. the question is do w wwawant america's image h hmemedore by dragging this out fururerer a a fufuher? what's's gngngo o be t the posi result frorom airing out andnd ventilating detaililsff what t rerey knew took placece and ould neverer have and warar cocommted to makingg sure never ppens again? i do not e euseit. i'm just saying what's thehe affefe o onamerica's image inn e world. i don't mean to drag ouout m answswerbubut did meet withh a hi r rking mbeberf al qaeda in a pririso i in iraq w whoaids greatetestececiting tool was the pictures at abu ab. weweon't want to g ge the terrorists andhehe radicalal

islamisla islamimi e extmists more tools d help their rececruitggn thisis onongog struggle we'rein. let me turur to policy. you mumu h havbeen shocked t sesee vernor sarahah pal rigign as govevern.. > wn'n' shocked. obviously, i i w a a b surprised, b but i i wasn'tt sh. i undersrstandhaha sarah made a dedecisi w wre she c be most effective for alaskand for the country.y. i love and respect h h a and he family. i'm grateful that s s agreed t run wit. i am confidentnt she will be a major factor in the natioioll scene anand i alaska a as wl zoosh but you say y y were surprised a litttt bi wh >> well, b bauausehe had notot called meme. we discucussedtt since, andnd i better u uererstd the reasons for her decisision >> w wtt we ey? >>well,owow could she best rvrve? how w coul she mt e effecveve seserv a alaa and the country, anthth was her -- >> but, sesetor, you h hav a

putation of perersoll a prpresessial toughnesess and sticick--i-it-veness. yoyososoug the highest role i the land, p prededentf the uned states. yoyou nerr qu. >> don't think she ququ. ththin she changed --- >> shehe mad a a promise tootot toto sve out her term, didn'n't shsh >> i don't know if there was a roromi." i do knonoththathe will be an efeffeive player on the national stage, and i i w wl say i have nenerr sn a susustain personal family attacks thaterer made on sarahhalalinnd her f filily in y life. carlrl can has very inintesting piecebobo the mediaa establishment and the atattass tt were made o on her, and mm sure t tha that had somo impact. ethi hihi charge after etcscs charge. huhureredsf thousands of dollars worth ofof lalalfees. the ftt is s she is v vyy popul with our r rubublin base. ee will be a strong voice. ihohose her becauau s is a

rermer, because she beattnn incumbent governor,, sheasas a popular republican off her own papart she ignited ourur base.. she did a greob assy ruruing mate, eveven under the most sustaineded perersona atta inererin recent american politics. > you haveeustained personal torture, personall atck, political attackck, investigat. you havee nev resigned f fro anything. isis i consistent with yrr qualitieies o leadership to resign an electededosostike this? >> sure. >> it is? >> if youanan be -- t t question is h han youou serve most effectively? sarah and toddd a and her famil made d dision that s she can be most e eective b b stepping dod, and d shedid. i i reecect that position and tt dedecion, and i cannotelell you the appreciation i haveeor her.. > y t thihehe qlilifi to seek highestffice i in e land?? >> i k knowhe's quififie h hade is qualified?

>> sure. >> no dououbt autut it? >> she has a a the rig instincts. sh has all the rigight principles. shwas a mayor. shwas gogovern.. shunderstands the challenges that f famieies face. she has great ckground, and i i amonfident that she will continue too pl,,s isa an important role.. i ifhe seeks the preresincncy inin 12, you would endorse her?? >> i think it'sayay too ely for that k kd d of thi becausese she obviously h has nade that decision yet, and tritionally, ththos of us w who are the n nos haveve waiddt least -- a long period of time b beforweweot into th.. we got a lot of goodod, strongng yog,g, atattrtive, articulate spspokpersons for our party a a ouourprinciples. >> can you understandd howeoeoe would think it's'sstnge. yovovohed for her i inront of the coununtr t tha she qualilie for theigigst pititio in the land. yet, you're not prepapare t to endorsrshehernow? >mean, george b bush - ronald reaganan didn't endorse george herber walalrr bush until the

year o ohe election. i mean, it's s stst way too ear. i'm confident she w would m me fine presesiden the questionon is what's t whole political scscenio? >> do youu thi she's rurun? >> i ionon'tknow. i knonow s will play aajor role. i kn s s has t ability to igignite our p ptyty and t t gaanane us and getssoing ain and give us a a strong,, positivevememesse. >> o m me onthis. your trusted a advoror mike mury wrwre this week something g ve pointed. he wrote that governono s sar palin is the p policical traini wreck ththat kpspsn giving. firstthehe w an a awf choice r last year's johnn m mccain's are an mate. an ixperienced governor o o a small state, she l lkeked exexrience and brought notothi to the ticket. it was a centralalit eejically awawl choice. knowing g ererytng you know no, wowoulyou pick her agaiai >> ababsolulyly inll due resespecto those who like to kind of e examihe entrails andooook back washsh,, thact ise e we three pointnts ahead on septembmber 1th,nd the

stock markrket cshsh, and w we went seven pointss do. sarah palin iitited our party. wewe we winning, and we cldld have won, b b i'm proudud of the mpmpgn, and i'm proud of the people arounund me. i'm gratefufu f their support.t. love them. am proud t thahave hadad t honor being the n nomee of thehe pty of abrahaminincond theodorore roosevelt and ronalald reanan i will rememai . >> is she ahead off t pack in terms of leadede o of this party goining forward? >> i don't know. recent poll i i saw shows she a mitttt romyy and huckabee very tight. 's way toooo early. you might rememberr i in 2 27 m campaign was deadad > rembebewell. d d yo came ckck. let s stch gears and talk about the prerededent off the united s stetes rrently and th's's barack obamaandnd h perforormae.e. look at thee rent poll numbersr that camee ouout,nd it shows declining support. his appppvaval rating now 58%. back in januauary it was at 66%. at's your assssesenent of howee is perfmimi? >> we, firststf f al his numbers s ar s sti stng, so

it's's reliviv seseco o ofall, i t think ameris understandably arere becinin veveryvevery ccerned about the deepepdedeepolitical and ononic debt that we aree l layg on futurure generatatio o of amererics.s. we are comomttttin generational theft. just last week the estimate o the deficitit was $1.1 trillion just for the f fir ninemontnths $1.8 trillion.. that's byy ftor of twtwo. theigighe in a any t te -- peaee time in histstor we are spendinin a and spendinga spending. who five months ago thought w w would own cysysr and genereral motors? o o ought we would own aig? wh thought we would o o a all thesese bas s d institutions? it's the mostt msive movement from thereree enterprise s syst to thehe gerernmt in the history of this country. >> t president s says be patient. w w ch more patience do o yo have? >> we, i also tnk it was tetesting. the e prididen u uss aery

effectivehetorical ploy. says -- he setss u the position offhehe - like he sai, there are those who s sai we ntnt to do nothing. who w w thatat? we wantetetoto he a stilulu package. weanand one that would h hel alall business. the genenerororff jobs in n thi countrtry atat wld cut the corporate taxrorom 355 to55 and help small businessese buy eqequienent d hire people and would havemmmmedte shshov-r-rea projects, and we predicted that most t of t ststimusus pkage that wasasasse rough the senate inn a partisan fashion would notot have any re short-term effect,, , guess what, we'e' f fding o only 1010% mumuhehe money hasaseeeen spent. a lot of it hasas bnn on ridiculous projectsts i say w withrespect, we republicans had a p posive alternative. it was under $4 llion. wead anltltertive budget. we had an alternative to ththe omnibus spending bill.

>> 40% of the stimulusackage inuded tax cuts. >> it includeded tcuts,, but a lot of themm an the wrongng dictctn. why nott me e su we focused on small businene and,also, on corporations whichch n h hav th hiesestax rates o ofny -- o of anyyouount in the world. >ere's whatisisop economic visor said this we. pelelenow that problems o of this ririouess cannot be turnededroroun in six monssrr ni nths. "one of f e e presenens strengths and s s his trtrrdinary candor t the esesidt has been honest withh the american peopl a abo the enormity o of th challenge and the amouou o ofime it willake totoururn things araround then the president yesesrdrday hihi radadio addressaiaid this recovery act h h workedd a a intended. is h l leling with the ameririca peopop?? >> well, i'm sure t president is doing everything t tha h hea to try too hpp this ececony. > b is he leveveli?? is he bebegg raight? >> wl,l, he iss eher not leleveli n n or he wn't leveling at ththe meme othe passsse e ofhe stimulus package because they said t m mimimum unemplployntnt wldlde at 8%.

that's what they y ldld usus it's 9.5%,oioing to 10%. thth s sai most of these projecs were shoveleleaeady and the m mn wowoulgo out very quickly. we knonononowhat has not ppened, and even t ttt 10% i a ttttle deceiving because i it hasn b bn used. what they p prosed us w wouldee ththe susultf the stimulus i a ort-term and hasas turned outut t t toe true. m not saying it's n not leveliling, tt it's certatain nt factually correct b becsese ty said unemployment would bebe a mamamumumf 8% androbably closer to >>ould you support a a second stimulus plalanf it ces dodown? > i tnk that would be thehe bibiest mistake we cocoul ever make. y don't we f foc on tax cuts, s sll busisineeses? whwhy n't we instead of sayayin wee gngngo increasase taxes to papafor health carere refofo,, don't we say,look, let's ease this bururden on t themamall businesses particulular,, a i keep g gngng bk to ththat. oo gerates jobs in america? not generallmotors.

nonot chchslsler pelelehat genererat j job in america a are small binines pepelele whoho all erer, all ovy hometown of oenix,arizona, are shutting t t s stofrfron enterpririse o oftheirs, anand,, general motorors i is too bigoo fail and so is aiaig, but they' to s sllll to save? there'e'sosomeing wrong with thth picture, and that'ss w t te erican people are unhahappy. >> you mentioned health caca refo.. this is whahathe president said back in mah.h. heheaiaid is is critical to t overall l finaiaia health of th coununy.y. stst. >> if w weant t treate jobs and rebuilild ou e enomy and g get federalududt under cocontl, enen w have t address the ususng cost ofeaealtcare th ar. d do u ree? > agree that w we nd to rerefo health care and we n ndd to make it afffforblblend available, but we arareosing sight of the fact thatt t highest qualaly y heth care in the rlrl is in the united states of america. that must be preserved. so the key,, what we shod d fofocuing on, i affffordalili anand aiailality foror all americans. i i dot think that these proposals are doing th..

i i s in hohousn. pepeople- senator mcconnell a a nanar -- pple from thehe 0 countries from all o oveimime world were erere. the best, highest qualilityeaeat care i i i in americica. it's theheososthat's the probobm.m. >> are you prepapare t to suppo wh the administration n opopos on health care? >> well, the leses was b cbcb -- e e ngressional biological o offee aer saying wewe'r a tlllln dololla short and onlyly covededone-third o o e e pele who are uninsured. now about half f hour of them ae uninsured u under tss plan. look, wewe gotot tgigive people ility to go across s stete les to g g the h heah h inrance of their choice. 've got to havave - -- we're i rereent on prevenenti,, o wellness, on t tryin t t have ououome-based health carere. a whole lot of things we're i i agagreenent . he should d be stiti down acrors ththtatabl not trying t to d d

they did with the s smulus package,e,itith e budget, and with all theothers, andhahat pick offff c cplple repuicics. let't's tt dn and havavome rerealcoconvsations, some real negotiations ratheher th t t arade that we've beenn going through. >hehe house s says- house democrats sayyee nd to raiaise taxes. a tax surcharge in ordeder t pa for it. does that kill thiss fort? >> i don't know if itt klsls th effortrt b butt k kleled o our ececony. i don't t thinththe's any raratiale for raising taxes on ananybod at this p pticular te and in the economicic difficucus thth w we' in. look,, mprpracce rerm is another thihing t thas been tak off the tae.e. weweeeeedo have thatss wellll. that couould see us tenss of bibillns of dlashz dollars a a year bececsese o the practicef defensive e didici that doctors veveo engage in >> a c couplofoforeign policy notes.s. look at the strikiningtatistic ouof afghanistan releasedd thiss week. eeumber of roadsidedeomom incidents, t tsese a the ones th w wer successful that hurt or killed people bacack in junuf 20,, june o of 2009.

up to 82. that's got to trorolele u. >> i troubled m enormomously but we all knew that oe wee we ioreas that havave be controlllled by t the taliban, rtrtularly in helm proroviee d the south, casualties wldld go up.. we tookk a terrible bww this week withen british soldierers killll i in o day. isis igoing to be long a and hard and tough, andnd want too work w wit the president, b but 've got t t remember what worked in aq, and that is it requireses addioiol troopsf necessary. lieneno ourur m milary leaders. saw on t the fnt pageff "t post" generall mcchrystal sayaye ededore troops. let's tell t t a amecan people how totoug i it f for us, tell them what's at ste,e, a i want work with the presidedent a makeke see w win this thg, but let's not try tgogo back to the rurufefeldra of trying to just go out,ill pele, leave, a a try to getet outffthere. is thatt t the risk of t ts adnistration now? >> that's the risk.. that's the risk.. >> you think w w need more

troooops >> i knonohat wshould listen to general mhrhrtal and leleads on the ground who, acaccoining news reports, not my information, say w we ee goig to needdditional troops in orrr t really cure. wewe talalbout ececonom,, political, military.. first you've got to pvide a secure environment. we prove that time after me. >> in terms of iran, the president ss by september ty andoned the program, get into negotiationed or face consuences. what does this administration have to do now to get them to abandon a nucle program? >> look, this is one of the toughest challenges we ce. we all want to workith the present. meaningful sanctions need to be posed, but also we need to tell the people of iran we're ruggli for a free docracy in an open socie and electns that are fair. i'm not talking abo sending arms. i thin theeminole event was e death of neda on the street at was broadcast all around the world.

that wlundamentally change the futuref iran because s was the symbol of a oppresse and repressive regime, and i think the winds of change will even blow through iran. no whether it ds quickly o not is hard to say. we didn't pdict the collapse of the berlin wall, but it iran something is afoot that i cat be stopped. >> before you go, are you praredo support sonja sodoyo >> i won't see the arings, obviously. those are a very critica part. obviously, she's a great american succe story, and we all respt and admire th. i le to see t hearings and watch very closely staing on nday. >> all right. senato mccain, thank you. >> thanks for having me back on next, the other sid of the bate, democratic sator chuck schum joins us. plus,ur political roundtable. only on "meethe press." at 1 m miles per hour, andy rododdick

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that's why w we're her we're back. joined by sator chuck schumer in new york. welcome back to "meet the press." thishite house is on the defense about the stimulus plan and the economy. over theours ofhe summer vice president biden haseen out talking about the projecons then and now. they said with the stimulus plan they would kee unemploymento 8%. re he was back june on this ogram. >> this pacge was sold on the premise at it would, in fa, keep unemployment at8%. it's exceeded tha with the stimulus plan. >> no, no, no. it wasn't sold on that. itas sold on it would create - it sai- what happened was it would save or eate jobs. it's doing that. it is dngthat. everyone gssed wrong at the time the estimate w made about

whathe state of the economy wa at the moment this was passed >> everybo gue wrong. thiss at he said backn july 5th atabc. the truth is wend everyone else misred -- misrea the economy. did you? >> you had a whole newworld. i had nev seen anything like this experience i think non us have. financial markets froze. just thin back in december and january, most people said thers a25 50% cnce we're going to ben threat depression, and the goo thing at the president is doi is twfold. one, he has strong medine against it. second, he has a longerm time rizon. hes not going to bounced around by what happens today o export numbers, which were good or what ppens on csumer confidence, whi was bad. and then keep adjusting. so i think that, ye the economy is very, very importan probly number one to the american people,ut the president has their nfidence. he is doing good job, and it's going to work we. >> i ask you if you misread this. you are the senator from n york. you have your fgerthe pulse o t financial center of

this country. this is a list of econosts and others who said tt unemployment would be worse than e administration anpated. do y agree that everyone got it wrong, or did the white house get it wrong? >> well, botto line is i think the estimates were allver the place, and eveone said it's very hard to chart this out, because, again, w were in unchartered waters. >> there were ctaineople who sa umployment would get worse, you nd a much bigger stimulus, they have g the wrong medicine. there were many, mostly many on the republican side and elsewhere,ho said we need a smaller stimul, and we don't need this kind of thin e president -- i mean, i remember larry somers and oths sayinge're trying to g the number right, but erring on the side of having it hher because the down side is significant. >> so you put yourself in their lot? yo misread i as well as they did? >> i wouldn't characteze them or me as misreading. you give the best eimate you can. i didn't make a projectioas to what the number would be. we knew it wa bad. we need we needed serious

medine. >> let's talkbout the stimulus. in nework state this is wha the gao, government acting office, by the new york post. new york has spent onlybout 22% of the federal stimulus set ide the state, and the gao report revealed that most ofhe money is being used just to keep governments afloat,ather than to create jobs. this is aprently happening all over the untry. th w the stimulus designed to plug holes in government financing at atate lel? it was designed too many things. immediaty, iad to get some money into t economy. if you remember -- you can quote all those economists -- the danger of going into what onomists called a dtionary spiral, where prices go down, more jobs are lost, prices g do further, was nightmare because ce you get into a deflionaspiral, no moderate liberal, conservative knows how to get out. you had to aid that at all cost getting money quily into the econom which is what the vernment type spending d was the first stag now we're in the second phe. money still continuing to goo the government. >> but is it toolo look at

the numbersut of new york. this is not a four-month plan or twmonth plan. whenou have suchn awful situation, theorst economy thate've had indecember, the president is hamstrun because the usual tools of getting out of recsion was lowering interest rates, b interest rates wer alr at. you need a strong long-term plan that has a number of stages now you'reoing to see t secondarof the stable, wch is the job creation part really ki in. >> you're not sappointed with what's happeningt the state level? >> im not. i'm beginning to see projects inup state new york, new york city, the new york cityuburbs begito get going. see theeople working. a lot of construction goingn that i didn't see three months ago, and that money is goi to art coursing into theeins of the economy. >> moreroadn the economy, back in april the president sounded fairly optimistic. is is what i said. >> there's no doubt that tim are still ug by no means are we out of the woods just yet. from where we stand, for t

very fir time we're beginning to see glimms of hope. >> let's lookt the numbers. first six weeks in office. unemployment up approximate 2%. job losses 3. million, and the deficit is up 50%. are those glimmers of hope? >>no, buthere are glimmers of ho. that's the bad news, and the's lof bad news. let me just say,ook at where we were january 20th when t president got into office and today. there are some good ings. the finaial system hardly recovered,ut is not frozen. i no longerear day after day reports from small businesses, middle size busses, they can't get moneyanywhere and they're going under. that created a huge oblem, created last fall and last summer. not det with. that has ramations on int this economy. exports are up. parts manufacturing is . conser spending, which was goindown, is nowat. is is not dush know the good thing abou barack obama, one of the many good things about our presiden he has a long-term persctive, and he has an internalgyroscope.

hes not going to get jarred by one month number or one month's polling data. he has hisye focused on the goal. th economy will be better, gradually, but certainly, a he is going to g us there, and i think, by e way, i would sa-- maybe i'm misreading it, but i don't think so -- the american people ve confidence in the president getting out of this mess. >> let's talk aut healtcare. s signaturechient tha he wants domestically, will he get health care rerm, a massivoverhaul? >> we don't expect it to signed into law then,ut we expect the house and senate to have passedbills, yes. >> do you ink it's going to happen? >> i do. >> the big claim hes making is that it's neutral. it's n going to add to the debt. a trillionollar program. the big question is how is it ing to be paid for? couple of opgs out there, and one t offset t price the $300illion and thaw tax some ofhe nefits. cod you support that? >> i think what we've lrned overheast week on both sides of the aisle, people do not want to tax the benefits.

democrat and rublicans and given what theouse hasdone, given a majority of democts are againsted taxing benefits, i don't think that's going to happen. >> do you think a tax surcharge of house docra are going to propose on the wealthiest americans sshgs that the way to make up $550 biion? >>et me say aoupl in. first, theumber one thing we have to do to pay for this illion dollars is cut costs, and the president has wisely said the majorit of this package -- a signicant majoritys going to be from cuttincosts. the system i wasteful and inefficient. number one. mber two, we willave to find revenues to pay for the rest. the beginning of this week everyone said, well, we as you whene t specifi on the tax benefits that people weren't goingor it. democrats and republicans. key republicans wer negotiating with told chairnucus forget it. now we' looking at other things. here's the good news, did wrshgswednesday, thursy the finance committee, which is i charge of raisi the money, we

m met. dnesday, democrats. thursday, democratsnd repuicans. and laid o many different options. there are whole lot of options. we emerged from that meeting on both sides of the aisle tnking thiss doable. i believe tha the chrman's goalo have a pla that pays for it set b the end of this week will happen. now, to get into the specifs -- i know you askede about a specific. obviously,he surcharge has a benefit. it meets t president's goal of not taxing anybody below $250,0, t i think to negotiate i public when there are many different optionss not going tbe very helpful, so i'm t going to do that. >> a couple quick ints, judge sodomayor, will she be approved? >> i think she'll gets many if not more vos than judge bert t, which was 78. she has wow people. people that meet her are impressed. not justith her story, but she's smart, but also practical. she's downo earth, and she

makes a great impression. the very iressionhe's mad onle the senators, she going to mak the millions of americans as ty watch the hearings, she is going to be approv by a large margin. >> you heard senator mccain opposed to the ide of an investigation into the alleged torture dung the bush administration. where do you come down? >> i generally belie that with the president a joh mccai is oking forward not backwards, but when therere egrejs violations, you can't bsh them under th rug. i think that the attorney general to look for egregious violations, which is what he is doinnow, is the right thing to do the republican pay?the future of >> i guess i shouldn't judge and let them fight among themselve >> what do you think? do youhink she's qlifio be presen >> i think the american people saw her and they saw problems in terms of preparaon and knowledge of things, but, you know, three and half years away is a long time away, so i'm not -- >> you're hedging your bets but

yoare very closelyaligned. here it is from "field and stream" the political odd couple. there they are. senator schumer and gernor lin, botheroes in ield and stream." you cannot walk away from how closely tied you two are. >> god blessamerica. >> thank you very much. up ne, our political roundtable ways i on all the in six dfere ways? intrtroducg g sterine® tot . evething you need to senhen teeth, help prevent cavities, d kill germs. inroducing 6 in 1 lisne® total care. the most complete utash. and to complelete yr oral care routinene adadperior plaque removal in places that are hard to reaeh with reach®oothush and floss.s. get the complete routin reach® andnd lisrine tot c care.

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> > wee back with our roundtable, dememrarati strategist bob shrum, former coununteter preresintntbush,arn hughes, andreaa mitchell of nbc newsnd roger simonon ofhe litico." kakan n isn from auststin texas. we appreciate havavinyoyouhere. a t to talk about.t. gegersimon, i want to start with sarah palin. i thought senator mccain was rather striking i his c comntnt totoda on thehenene hd he saidd h h wa surpriseseththathe stepped down. how could h hnot be givenis rererdrd a a politicician a as

senator, as a ader? isis ts the sameerson he chose to be on hisisticket? >> i think it is t t same person.. if the republicansns wee choosig a nominee today, i bieve thehey would chohoosarah palin. the republican p par has coapapd like a star g goi n naa to its densese c cor o of coervative voters. sahhalin speaks tohahat core. now, t the man darins, t the el don't like heher. e'e's t of their ilk. she is thekukunk at their garden partrty. they believe, assomome in thehe media beliliev t tha the highest foform of pololicical skill and authenticityododays to flawlessly reaeaaa sech from a teleleomompt that somebody else has written for u. at's not sarah palin. look,, s's'sot goioing t to b b barack obama, but a a s she haso do iss b bea tim pawlwlen,, bo jindel, mimi romney. are you u sangnghe couldn'tteaet mitt roromn?? >> i i a strongly f f her. i endorse her for the r rubublin

nominanati i in 2012. i think she g got a r rll probl with t the republicans.s. ththeyavave survival inininct, anand ee sd yesterday that sheh was mamayboing to campaign f for consnsertitive dedecrcrat that's bececau a aot of r ren dodot t wa her to campapaigfofo m.m. that party ultimamate,,hen you saw it with johohccain,n,ouou sw it with bob dodole they nomimina - - they take theexext rsrsonn line. iihink thahat' p probly mitt romneyey. i agree with yoyou. she's gott b bigbase, and think shsheigightin the nominationon. i hope s shedoes. >> senator maiai just sd he agree witith heher. hehinks it helps herer standing. thatat'sn n th best interest of hers going foforwd.d. it's okayy t resign. >> i i m s sator mccaiain i in difficult t potiti. hehose her ass hisisnominee. wants to support herer a her family. wawa surprised. wawaspuzzled. she sought that ofoffi.. i remember whehe i i worked for governor bushsh,ndnd h decideded run for re-eleleconon as govern of xas. enen when he w weing mentioned as presidential canandadate he felt it was impmporntnt t have that seal ofapproval, that re-elelectn n om the voters. he was very honest with thehem d

said i don't k kno whether will or won't run for esident. want youo make that as a a fafact in your decisionon i was surprisededndnd sewhat puzzzzle i think the weeee a andonths ahead d ar g gng to be v vyy crititic f f sarah papali shshe'got a lot of arar i i li her.r. she's feisty. she's a maverick. there's a f fin le between maverick and qukyky, and so i i think k sh h h to be very cararl that the nt sp she takakes are very thoughtftf and t tha she really thihink t tm through foforehe takes them. >> andrea, boror we hear f fro you, we have to s see -- this is andreaea mchchl, live on thehe scene i in atlanta. these are some of thehe sllll otot in your wars. momosteoeoe don't know tt you actually travel with fishing gear in your purse on assignment.. look at isis. ok at the oshg stragss on t tss smll fishing villalagef gornor palin t to speakakerer acace d lookt thisedia scrum m erere. here is a q qstion that youou ananerer aut her future. watch. >> can you imagineneouoursf runnining f president?t? >> i don't knowhaha the future

hohold can't predictt wtthe next fish run is going t to l lk keke, mu ss what's going to happepennn couple of years. my fusus is on m m state ststil anddtt aays will be, and my family andndhahats best f for them. whwhats bestoror themss to not run forr -e-ection and to a avo a l le-e-du, wawaefeful sessionn a final yeaear o office. >> is tt t -- mean, t ts s is the question i ped to s satator mccain, wch is is shhging omom tse fights theayay y demonstrate leadershihipnn a republican partyty >> i think thatt is her big fla right now, becauau even in alaska, even in her hometown erere ople are e ermously supportive o ohe where peoplee love heher, theyaid we're realy disappointed because s she quit so, thatatuiuitt label does attatachoo her. the other prorobl , look, she's realllly warm. she e ss aing i thinknknn behalf of her mily, which werere rting and she n nded tooo sosoththinabout thatat. she wawas ryry deeply ununhay.y. she'ssotot e enoous ararm, and

she's feisty. shis attractive. lord knows. she has to he a coherent world view to be thehe r replilin nominee, and t reason w she wawaso ram blili in that friday statememe a andidn't ally fix it i in her interviewe with many of uss isshaha she doesn't- she's n not deeply read. shsheasn't thought t thrgh a lot these things, a andou have t to do thahat ass national ndidate. can a leader of t the rerepuican party chart a new course without reallewew ias anana new direction for the rtrty? in o oerer wds, does the pupuican party to getack to power need a fundamental overhaul in t tmsms of corore poposion? >> i inink,obviously, any time a partrtyss out of power,r, t ts a a lo o o talkk about the cris inhehe pty and newew leaders and new voicicesilillemerge, but i think theext -- as w we move t the 2010 ecectis, as we move to 201212hahat theeaeade who emergege wll he to have a vision.. it will have t to a an optimisc vision, and d t thi they have o kekehe case thatt os is an inviting partrty, w welming party, that we want p peoeeo join us that we belelie t tt

ou philosophy of educating chchilenen of providing health care in a fiscally souound wa of putting money back intnto peopls ckets rather than t thi massive bud-up of debt and spepeining th w wre seeing under the obama administstraononill have toake the case that ourr pociciesare, in ctct, the best popolieses t take this countryr forward, a and we have still a country ththat i is largely cter righghanandhat isnclined want toear from us. i think the impmporntnthing is that we have an optimistic and visionary messenger. i was going to sasa wch i never do, thatt i i largege agr th you until y youot tohat rt about the cotrtry' largely centnterririt. >> i saiaidomometng wrong.g. >> nono. you s sdd t republican party eded a positive visionon. i thinkkhahat' the realroblem right now. itit icoming across as the party ofnono. look, if obabamafafas, ifhe st lis fails,ff thecocono gogoesbadly, repubublinsnsould benefittnynywa they d don h he to get out there and cheerlrlea f f failure, whih ishaha they're doing right no and if w wee snsns of recovover next year, in 2010 o 2012 are what actually maerer i i thk republicans will bebe punished badly f being soree

losesersndnd f looking almost like they wewere r rting for o a toto fail, which m mea the economomy-- >> i digrgree with that,,david. i think what w we' s seeg right now is that presisintnt obama's policies, unfortunately, a are ililin ande'e're very ncerned about atat. we've moved from -- >> that's likee saying why didnt berlin fall theheayay aer d-day? we're e on a at e beginning of is process. >> if we're lkikingt ama's gerara performamae,e, fst of l,l,ook at the job approval nuers. politicallllyenentive ohio. apapoval inebebruy 67%. the pololitalal and finananci realities are ttt theyavave t memet e eectations that thehey out t rr t stimulus plan. e president talked a autut glimmers of pepe. we see anything but over thehe firstt six months.. as a political matternd a fincial matter, as senatoror cacainsaid, he is noteveling now or he wasn't leling th.. somemethg g isot adding up. >> the rock statar h has comom intermissisi he. barackck omamaow ownshe

econonom it's his. e american people a h holngng himm responsible. weassed a $78080 billion economic recovovyy bl in nebraska, and ass wointed out, since then we've losos 2. millionn jobs. weavav spent billions a and billions of theececery money, and people are wonderinghehere ee the jobs? rack obama says we'veveotot t years.s. this is a two-year pl.. chkk schumer saiai we've got two arars. they don't h hee t years.s. thee cgrgresonal electioio a ar in n novbebe of 2010.. theyot to sww progress before then. >> thinknk a big t ttt will be whether r th a at ast can g g me agreement onnealth care fore the recess on the house siside the senate i i going to be moro difficult. at is a huge problem, and n no wee e go a proposalrom the house democrats andharlie rangel for an income tax -- a a surtax.. even among lou dobbsbsemocrats in the house i it llll b a touou llll plus, thehe obamama a admistrat

hahas scored this withhe congressional l buetetffice, and th'v'veigured outhat r rheher than justt - -- raise $500 b bl wards the health carereososts thcoco of iuring t the inunshiriinu inunsu unsured, but after teneneaears those numbers s blkk shply. in the out yeaears unless thehee are majorravavgs fromealth ca rerm, you knknow out there, you are goioing to h he huge balloon of expendituture i n n yes out, and that is goioing toy y b big debate. >> the big l lesnn from 19 t t 3'3' failure of health h ca form is congress has to have a say. congressss i h hing a say. unfortunatatelt's in s sevalal differert t diction on how you pay for it and whether there will be a public anan. >> i i'm fascinated byis. inheheololital and meded class weanan the instant gratificatio gratifications.. we have a story abobo do's day coming e eve other day. by the time - -- w whe that deadline cos,s, tre will be a bibill they willlomome to anagreement. i believe that billlilill pass, and i think he wilill sign .

weugug to be very, veryy carerefu no. heaiai by octotobe i thinkke have to bevery, veryy careful l ououthese kinds of judgdgmes.s. like the jobloss. we were losing 700,000 jobs a ntnt in nunuar 'r're w losing halfhat number. obously, it's going to takake time to turnn this around. we have 2,00000 projects under. 2020,0approved. the ark of the stimulus isnlnly begiginnggo jolt the economy. the same thing is goingng to happen with health carere. we'll get it o there. the way, the cost s sings the cea c callalas 1.5% a year i it rms of lowering medical inflation and will raise gdp and lower the deficit. >hyhy shouldn't there be mor patience? wh s suldn't the republicansns who spent aotot of time spending a lot ofofovoverent money and under whose watch, thecocomy to t theurn that it did? why shouldn't t trere b more patienenceroro the republican aisle? >> this was sold to thehe aririn peopopless an immediate x,x, a i think bobobss now tining -- lt quote larry somersrs you'll seeee eecect immediately. chriristaaroamer, we'll statart

adaddi jobs, rather thanososg ththem use majority leader hoyer, there will be a anmmmmedte lt. this will begeginrereatg jobs immediatatel instead, we'veve snn a. . declinenenn e e ra of unemplployntnt. thth's's t immediate fifix. usus, you h hav seen a loosenin up of creret.t. weerer on the pntnt of disaster. ii tnk they can accurately argue e th t the have a avoeded cacataroroe, but -- t thawas avoidedasast fall whwhen p predent bush took theh lilically unpopupula step off the rereueue - >> i think whatt g geoe bush an goonon brown did i in britain t save thehe wldldanking system probably prevented a a overaul financial collllap,, b in nuary we were h hded into a popoteiaiay very deepp recessis or a deeper a deeper cecession, if not a depression, anandhat thedministration did has cut the ratef job lo,, ani think, you knkn,, we ought to look at where it't' going to be nexext september. in nexteptember people think things are recoveveri,, t republican party will payy hehey y pre for its attitude.

>> the prerededentas warned that too much of thehe stimuluss bll wod d nostill vsh, that it woululd tt ld to jobshahat, i was t typalalork barreltuff that the cgress wanteded we chohoseotot to fight with congress.. no in fairness, hwawa trying to prevent a worldld e enomic cocoapse, butnnaking this huge bill that h had l lot o uff that wasn't shovel-r-rea,, he r rkeked ying the price that hehes paying f fornow. at the jobs aren't ming. > wveveone from t the euphor ofeses w can to the d dee worry can wefford th.. >> reagan went throughhis inn 1981, and,d, ict, hispproval rangngby the way, at thiss tee s s extly the same as obama'ss is day. >> a a unempmploenentent to11 prprz 1982. >> republicans stayedd w whh it. despite the difficictitiesn the midtererm ececon, ty g g to 1983. ththrerecory came. so did morning in america andoo did d ee cfirmation of the reagan a.a. e e re chal singe for democrcratrsrshre they going to stick with the president? are they going t t get wblbl and afraid, because if they d don

hangng together, they'll h han sesepate. >> i w wtt t show some of the pictures. e president was on the w wor stagage isis wk while the d debe was ininteififyi. traveling in r rusaand then too ghana. e e ctures from ghanana a are striking just from ovever the weekend. he visited slave prisonitit s s faly. anmotional tour ththe. the response hugug f fro the pepeop of g gha to meme's firs african-amereranan esident. in terms of image abroad, karen hugheses, a a fmer counselel to the preresintntndnd as someone w was the head of public dlomacy atat t state department as well. now we heaea f fro the attorney gegeral that he is leaning towardrd,ccccorng to "newsweek putting anndndendent prprosututorn charge of invevestatatinalleged torture during t theusush ministration. doou agree w wit that idea?? >> i ihink it'sotentially very rmrmfubecause everywhere travelled, a asave triri t rereacouou to half off o our coy around the wod,d,nd i applaud president obama f forryryg t t reh h ou ththat e ectly what president bush asked me to d dor two and a a ha years as the

undersecretaryff state f for pupubl diplomacacy. at some p pntnt is more a matter -- it't'sesess matter of e e u popular oour trtrch t tore you effective. let's look a athahat ppened this week. it was a great pictctur ababsotetelyn riri. very powerful l montnt f the first africacan-ereric, american prididt to go to the c connenent of africa. some of the things t tha presidenent obama sd there sounded like echos offreredent shsh,alling for m mee transpsparcycy a for leaders of the continent tonvnves this their r pelele invesest i in ucucatn and health. let's look at t th r rests of this t triinin russiaia. nice w wor w wer exanand,ucuch as they were whennreresint putin and presiside b bus backnn their r fit t eting, and, yeyet, by the end o ohe week the president t of russia was bacacay warning our ameririca prpresent that there will beo cuts in wpons if he d doe't anando the missile defense system. at the g8umumt they kkekedhe cadown the road. they said we'll deaea wh clatatchange and the problemem of a nuclear iran and thehe

u.n.n. - >> i is dng anythingg ririgh >> wt to stick on th.. should t the b b aouountility fofo allegeded torture your r n the bush administratition >> as i readd whatolder is thinking about ining, it's -- wellll, pointiningomomne to investstatateeople who acted ououide of the guidelines s s y ee jtice department lawyers. tnknk if thaha is actuallyy what's comomeoo ght, he doesn't have mucuchhohoe but to do thaha because e wh's'seen defendedd i therorosition that inside those guidelininese'e' not goiog to g g a aft people. i want to bton this up w wit both o you on one topic, a a think a key point f frothis discussion, i isowow will we kw whether the p prededes vulnerablele o h h ereral agenda in terms ofoing into this midterm race? roger, i'll start wh h you. icicklfrom both of you. >> howow wll w know ie is vulnerablele >> or succeediding >> we'lllleeee h poll numbers for one. we'll see how the party does. 's -- this is -- he's jtt cocongng bk from a trip. just for a seseco.. i thinkktt mes a point. ththiss s th first tripee madee

that wasasn' iumphant, that t t american peoplpl s sawictures o hiinin ghana. they were veryryararm and emotionanal dd gogo,, but also, people weree saying though themselves, you u owow, he h a health c ce e pl he wants too wrap u upnn augugu, , an is he ghana in mid-july. think also going t to thrown way off trackck b this -- h h dodoest want the truth way off trackck b this -- h h dodoest want the truth comm[ engineneevvingt't'soioi to [ engine powerers down ] gentmen, you booked hotels on orbitz.

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