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starting tay our rebrdcast time on msnbc cable 2:00 p.m.astern time sunday afteoons. also, can you watch the full progm on-line beginning sundays at 1:00 p.m on our websi bsite,

yohave a reputation of personal and professional toughness d stick-totiveness. u sae highesto in e land, present of the united states, you never quit. >> no, i don't think she quit. i think she changed -- >> she made a promise to the voters to serve out her term, di't she? >> i don't know if therwas a, quote,promise. she will be an effective player on the nationalstage. and i will say i have never seen a sustained personal fami attacks made on srah palin and her family in my life.

>> okay. heree another summer monday morning and sarah palin is still on all the front pages. welcome to "morning joe" at 6:00 on the east coa. i'm mika brzezinski. what ashot that is. willie is off. joe is off. that's okay. we have "time"agazine's mark halperin here. do we have patyet? patuchanan joins us from washington and howperfect, pat. sarapalin does not leave the front -- look at the "new rk times." is woman is a draw. i don't kn what kind of a daw and evertime i try to aracterize it i getailed on the inrnet. do you wanto try to t a st at it? >> sure. i think the liberal tablishment is very obsesd with her. it rekable. i'veev seen a ca where you have a former vice presidential candidate of a defeated ticket who is gettg this kin of attention x, eightonth

after the election is over. i think they're very fascinated with her because she is a wan isery pro-life and conservative but attractive and very acmplished and ve controversial and she was a sensation forhe first two wes, frankly during the whole campaign. she was the one besidesarack obama who cod attract enormous following but it is an ermous following. >> i agree with that completely and i think that's the way to characteze . peggy noonan has que a pie on her. she's everywre on the ver of your magazine. >> she's on the cov of "time" but is making hersf available pretty widely. we thought after r press conference she would disappea and let that statement speak for itself. whether e planned to dothat, doll these interviews or didn't think t statement did all tt well, she sat down with our arch enemy "the new york times," talked to a bunch of people last week. she's not hidi.

>> i think patuchanan seems to thinis wouldn't have haened to joe biden. >> it would nothave. are you kidding me? >> if barack omaost, we woul't be obsessed with joe biden. i think allice presidential candidates -- >> yeah, mm-hmm. sure, sure sure. speaking of "the nework times," though, we're also gng to get to the cistory about vice president cheney. licheney will be on toow, by e way, and whether or not he tried to have the cia withhold infortion to congressional intelligenc officials about a secret prram. we have some ieresting insight into that. spoke to a rmer senior intelligencefficial yesterday. it discous entire article in "e times." we'll get to that squl. time now for a look at today's headnes. another big story today, sonia sotomayortas thenational spotlight when the senate confirmation hrings begin on her nomination to be the first hispanic judge on the sueme court. althoughotom is expected

to be confirmed, repuicans are prising to put up a fight. >> im really flabbergasted by the depth and constency of her philosophicalritique of impartl stice. i ink that's a real expression ofhers, and ihink it will -- it does not show up as mucon the lower cot where you're supervised by ur circuit in the sueme court. it canhow up much more on the supreme court. >> judge sotomor, she be approved? >> i believe s'll be approved and i think there's very good chance she'll get as many if not got which was 78.ge roberts she has wowed peoplend she makes a great impression and the very imprsion she's mad on 89 setors she's going to make millns of americans asthey wah e hearings. she is going to be approved a large margin. >> all right. we'll have senator schumern later in the show. these mination hearings are

going to be like the "seinfeld episodes. >> in what respect? aut nothing. it's going to fine. t's going to b a lkthrough for her. i think she's a liral justi. she's not a wildly crazy justice. it was appropriate alito and roberts were confirmed. i think it'she case againnd i think for most of th senate, apart from all the other issues aroundender and all that, peop look a her and say she's qualified anshe'll be on the court. >> we'llave pat chime in on that later. meanwhile, some democratic senators are callin f an investigation after larning congss was reportedly not briefed on aop secret cia program at was all aaren the work of vice president dick eney. >> the answer is, yes, congress shld have been told and we shouldave briefed bef

the comncement of thisind of sensitive program a. they could have watched the program. they could have asked r regular rerts on the pgr. they couldave made judgments abouthe program as it we along. that was not the case because we were kept in the dark. >> the question i'll be asking comi uis was the program actually a program. feinstein adde leonanetta quickly ended the program which began after /1 and was portedly never fully operational which, of course, some argue is why they wer't briefi cgrsional members. they will ho hearings on the ture of the mysterious program which i p in quotes. three men are being held in connection with e murders of a wealthy frida couple known for adopting children with mental disabilities the husband and wi were shot to death while eig ofheir 16 children slept. more aests are expected. > south korean media is rerting north korean leader kim ng-il has life-threatening pancreatic ncer.

the cancer was found when he had a stroke last august,hough there sn't been confirmation of either illss. there is good news this morning about gas prices. they'vefallen about 10 cnts a gaon in the last t weeks cordto the te lundbg survey. it find the average price for regular is now $2.56 a gallon. and more stormy weather ma prevt nasar launching space shute "endeavour" ts evening. sterday the lauh team came within minutes of sending the shuttle to the international space station buteavy understorms grounded the spacecraft and its crew of seven. so let's get more on the weather. parently bill's back. to bill kars for a check on the latestforecast. oh, weissed you. >> no, you didt. no >> yes, we missed you. >> figuresoe wouldn't be here today either. i'm ejoying the serenity of my vacation, right? i think it's li thursday and i'm in this li diner. some guy looks at me and says, did you ar what joe said about you? i'm li, eat, just ruin my whole y.

>> he's just joshing you. >> figures wouldn't be here today. good monday morning. i hope you had aonderful weekend. dallas, texas,let's tkbout e at and e drought that contins. five days in a rowin dall. we've hit 100. we're gointo hit 100 tod, tuesday,ednesday. y want to call it cooling off thursday into friday will be better. dallas, oklahoma city just brut today. oklaho city should be 106. you noti wre also gng to see stormy weather. atlanta down through the southeast. florida,ou'let afternoon storms only a flip of a coichance the shuttle ll lift off this evening. stms outside of memphis, also atlanta, a lite bi lit rain. birminam, alabama, has a thunderstorm currently. some of e best weather today, wh an ideal setup from boston wn to , low80s, sunshine. low humidity. just idealperfect conditions foyour monday. another thing, mika, we haven't talkeduchabout, e tropic we haven't had our rst named

systemyet. typicall july 10th is the age. so for once it seems the last couple of years we've been so active. is year nice and quiet. >> okay. well, dot jinx it, ill. >>sual do. >> bill karins,hanks very much. time for our top taers. we'll sta with the cia story. front page of the "new yor times" yesterdayasically saying tat vice prident dick cheney reportedly tried toeep a cia program from being told about to congress. keep the biefings to congressional intelligence officials, and i actually am hearing quita different story but let's fit play senator dick durbin on "this week with george stephanopolous" because he is calling for an investigatn. take a listen. >> senator durn, do you think this has tbe investigated? >> absolute it doe let me tellyou, we have a system o checks and bances there is accounbility in our constitution. th executiveranch of government cannot cate programs like these ograms an keep ngress in the dark.

have a massi program that is concealed from the leaders in congresss not only inapopriate it could be ilgal. >> pat buchanan, che in on this. what's your gut? i'm hearing there s not a program that was actually being ecuted, that this was somethinthat was very much in the initial phases,nformation gaering versus covert action. what would there to tell congress about and also w does dick durbin know that it's a massive ogram? we're goin to have him the show and i'll ask him. >> well, i don't know that it's a mssive program and i dot it very sious interestingly e ad of the ci mr. panetta, was not even informed himself uil the 24th or 25th of june ande rushed u togress and to the committee, the intelligence committee, to tell them. but i agree with you, mika. i think and i believe t"the wal street journal", is it not, rerting today this may have be a targeted assassination of

al qaeda-type thgor which the president sued a findin they wenover to the cia, and it never became basicalla full-fledged pgram, we're going forwarwith this. >> right >> and so, therefore, they may havefelt they had no obligation to inform congress of justdeas they were kicking around tha never came to finality. >> well, that's what i'm hring and i'm look iing at the "wa street journal" storyore talking out. mark, it -- >> the wd initiative and effort not program. >> yes. >> and i think what this story is reporting suggests is wha the people in the a on background are suggesting this s not a full-fledg program, our source says, and not something that theneeded to brief on. democrat it seems to me, feel they have something here on the substancit's really important or the politics of it are so good. clearly what got ople's

attention was the vice esident personally sd it should be kept from congress. whether it w a program or a initiative, if thas the case, if he id affirmatively ngress shouldn't be inford, people areoing to be intested in that regardless of whether we cl a program initiative or an effort. >> but we have to kow the nature of it and that's what's so difficu dealing with an effort that the cia has been or still is part of dertaking. apparently it's over. but if they never actually carried it ou wha is there to tell congress about? >> well, i think thessue is this is pa of the mytholo of dick cheney toome eent, here today rather than tomorro it's did he make an affirmative desion? congress shodn't know about this, don't te them. whatever the nature of tivity was,if that's the case, people areoing to be interested in his ro there. >> the source i spoke to and, pat, theource i've spoken to has saidhe pogram was neve developeenough to either talk to congress aut or to tlk to anybody high levelin the adnistration about. therefore, there wasothing to talk about. >> if he kw about it --

>> that's my guess as t what happed as well. let me say ts, t politics of thisthe president of the united stes, barack obama, says we have to lk to the future. mccain sayse have to look to the future. if we go back into thisnd if you go back to wherer. holder, the attorney general, is saying now may have a special prosecutor for the cia a the wateoaing and all the rest of it, i think dick cheney is like brair rabbit, you are throwing him tohe breyer patch. going after the republicans on 0 national security that the republicans were overly overly ruthless.rly tough and that is the playing field i think that couldear the democratic party apart and it's to the advtage quite frankly dick cheney o i believein that last face-off hasone very well and he's the one that been rising in the polls as a conseqnce of all of this. >> it's so interesting you s that abo t concern for the mocratic party because mark halperin, the othe story that broke over the weekend volves eric holder d potential

torture investigator or prosecutor? >> limited. 's not talkinabout doing a full investigion of everythg buthere some limited cases where he's dided he may feel he nds to goorward and investigate and maybe prosecor. not the ite hoe's focu of going forward but the attorney geral is sposed to be inpendent in the abstract at least itould be nice if hwas followg e evidencewherever it led raer than doing the white house's polical bidding. i don't think this is as big de, though. whethehere are aew prosecions or none at all, as long as there's not a broad based investigation people will be fine withit. >>ll right, t? >> let me dissent onat to this extent we know pretty much what happened. the cia d use the techniques, wate board,t ceteraon at ast three. theyid get legal judgmentrom folks th they could do it and they wererdered to do that by the president the united statnd the vice president. if you have an instigation,

you go right up th food chain right intohe white housend the ov office, andhe vice presidt's office from the outset, think, because t cia guys are goingto say, look, we were authorized to d0 this. here's the papere ud. d the guys that wrote the paper said we were ask to write it by cheney and that' what we wrote. >> do we need ts? >> i d't know if w need it i'll tl how doesn't need it is rack obama. i would ink i wld go further thanhat mark is. i'rty sur it's not their foc focus,ou cee tension arise between the president and the attorney general on is question. i aee with mark that's the quasi indepdence of the important but as aolitical matt i think pat is right. if you ask barack oba if he actually -if it was not an dependent agency, the justice departme, he would not hve ericoldo i they must look at this with a little bit o annoyance and a little bit of concern because this raised a bunch of sues

that do themo particular good litically. and here we're talkingbo a r potentiasecond stimulus packa package. we're wondering where the first one is going, has go, will go, and the unemployment rate is something we need to talk abou as well because ift's not going to me it, we're sti ing to have theame problem we have right now a coue of ars from now and we will be talking about a second stimulus package unless someone comesp with a better dea. so thas one of t issues that i think theresident would like to see moving forward on a seeing som success on. i have some interestin op-eds on tt coming up. >> all he cares about isealth care. >>exactly. which he has -- the president s -- >> these arell distractions from the only thing that matters to this president. >> correct. the president has a piece, i believe, in "the washiton post" this morng which we'll be reading to you as ell. coming up on the show, senator chuck schumer ere be here. he's pdicting sonia sotomayor will be approved by a rge margin. al ranking reamian on the senate judiciary committee, senator jeff sessions.

we'll talk to him about e hearings and abo sarah palin. plsenate majority whip dick durbin. we'll talk to him about that cia story. chuck dd live from the white house. and in just a few minutes, "the capehart.post's" jonathan us a look at the sties politico is woing on this morning. undefeateofessional boxer flo " "moy" mayweather has the fastest hands xing has ever seen. so i'veve come tohis ring to see who's faer... i'll be using g the 3g at&t laptopconnect c card. he won't. so i c broe the web faster,,

email ness plans faster. all on the gogo. i'm bill kurtis ani'm faster than floyd maeaer. (annncncer) switch to ththe nati's fastest 3g3g netrkrk aand get t at&t lapptopconne card for free.

in many newspaps all around e country, featured a picture from italy where it appears president obamis checking out a man's rear end. which is surising because ushle only one heas to keep an eye on is joe biden.

>> that's just wrg. that was so dumb, by t way. did u guys see that picture er the weekend? oh, whatever. never mind. well, just think newspapers are desperatehen they put a picturin like that. that's all i'm going to say. here with us now chief political correspondent of politico, mike allen. good to see you ismorning. well, welco back, mika thboys were very naughty while you were go. >> they were? >> they were. >> well, why don't you tell m what they d and i'll take ca of it. >> welcome back. >> good to see you. let's start with sotomayor, the hearings startg today. she testifiestoday. what i t white house' strategy as they prepare? >> mika, they want herto come acro as boring as possible. favote aunt is how she's going to come across because, johnas saying earlier, yes, s's liberal, and they don't want th to be what pele take away. so in her opening statement we'll hear a lot about he person story. we're going to hear aot about specics how she approached

cases so shs not going to sound acemic or abstractand, me car there's going be a sympathy factor because, unfortunately, she's sti, can you believe itstill in that walking cast from when she brok her ankle back at laguardia a montago so e will a little stool under the table to put it up on and if she nds to e can take an injury time-out. >> okay. sounds good. those hearing by the way, will be aired re live on msnbc starting at0:00 a.m. easter time. chris matthews will be you host, just so you know, mike. >> mik d the audience will see a host of nephews, nieces, even godchildren,ormer clerks, so a bikrooting section for the judgthis morning. >> that will be nice. the next topic on the potical playbook, bush bashing. sh i bk. >> iove this. in commercials docrats are using this as their number wone

go-to. i thought maybe it woulde the vice preside. he'll probably be back, too, but in gernor's races in both virginia and new jersey we'r seeing the preside again and again and docratic officials are telling us, mika, they will keep talking about ts as the bush recsion, that it will be the bush recession as longs it lasts and epecially -- especial if republicans go to what everyone on "morning joe" agrees is theirbest issue which isorrow and spend, docrats argoing to keep reinding republicans, hey, your former guy, presint bush, started it all. >>yes, but ifou get abt two years into it and you lookt the spending this administraon has put forward, you co say the numbers are mu higher than eight years in office. how do they do is? i guess how do peoplefall for this? >> it ll be using the bush's short hand that he's goingo remind them of a the things they didn't like about the last eight years, mind them why theyswitched. >> bush is a four-letr word. >> if unemployment stays as is, it's just not gng to work.

>> no, it's going to be higher. 10.5%. >> that's wh we're looking at. >> everything wee hearing, mika, the recovery ne year is going be very slow, whi will me it very hd r democrats inidterms in 2011 as the re-election caaign gears up, the recovery will b robust. it's right on schedu for the presiden it's not for congressional democrats. they're very worriedbout it. >> do you ink it's on schedul r the presint? i'm no so sure uess we figure out exacy where the stimulus money is going and if it's actually going to createeal jobs dn the road. >> just in the last ten da i feel like it's partly because of your reporting, arguments ainst the stimus have ystallized, startin catch onmuch, much mre skepticism. >> we'll asking those quesons. finally on the politico playbook, the fund-raise president obama is going home to make se money. >> love this, question yes. icago, a week from thursday, there will be two hge events.

the first political events the president has done in chicago since ection night. if you're a high roller likeoe you can go the expensive dinner, but if you're like the rest of us, there will be a reception, $250, limitedumber ofickets there, $100 general admission, $2,500 tbe a host. e president isgoino have a bunch of chicago bulls there. a hot djay cassidy will be there. is is going to be a blow-o. >> all ght, mike allen, politico's mike alle we will se you tomorrow. let's take a qick look at the morning's papers. of course we look at the rags here i new york. yep, nothing. michael jacon. "wall street jrnal," this is thbig story. e the big stories and they're folling up on what "the n york times" broke yesterday or seemingly broke. we'll see. we have some questions pertaini to that sto. the c had secret al qaeda plan, theplan to take outome to members ofl qaeda. was it a plan?

was it a program? was it somhing that congress needed t hear about and did dick cheney keep that information from going to congress? that's the controversy of the day. we're talkg about that. "washington post," hearings, not just about sotomor's confirmation process cld be a partisan platform and a barometer. that will be interesti okay. we can gauge that. "new york tis," a new push t lookback. bush era issues m force obama's hand andth story on the left, retrang pal's long march to a short notice resiation. you cannot argue whether it's middle america, whether it's rul america, whether i's just america. there'interest in her. i'm ju yi, i'meing very reful with the words. >> not at this table. >> there's no interest in her? >> a subje of no concern. >> i'm not sure about her. i have to tell u. i'm no sure where this is gog. >> many mind iam. convolut on the issue.

very convoluted. walltreet has plenty of financial data to digest this rning. comi up early che o buness live from london also today's mt-read opinion pages, some good one we'll be right back with mor "morning joe." welcome to the now network currently, thousandsf pele are enjoying thenew palm pre withtsts revutionary web os.. th'r'rrunning multiple e applications at the same time. - ( thunr and rain ) - 3 llion are using the mplyverything plan. ea is saving $1200 - oveanan at iphone plan. - ( cash register dingsgs ) together that's over 3 billion. - enough to open a dunkin' donuts in ace. - ( walk-tkie sounds ) fm m amica's most depdadable network. bringingouou first and lyly wireless 4g network. get the palm pre frorom sprint only on the w network. deaf, hard of hearing an people with speech d dabilits access www.sprtrelay.com.

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all riright. look at thatat pretty morning shot. uslly don't like our useless live shotsts and thattould bewhy bebecaus we're just ctctcng them whwhilthey're cusing. just afterer 6:30 on theast ast, today the u.s.s. satate beginsns confirmationon heangngr sonia sotomayor.r. president obama'ss nomination fr the supreme court. it's widely assumed shll be confirirmed t t highcourt'ss first hpanic justice b but republicans say thehellll press the veteraran dedera judge to explain past ruliliss involving discrimination complplntnts d gun rirights. liveve cove of day's heinin begins at0:00 here on msnbc. the associatedprpres reports attornrneyenener eric holder yy push forward witith a criminal ininveigation into the bushh administratiti's's allegedorture of terrorism spspec. that move couldetet the ste fofor c cflict thth the obama

white house whwhicwawantto leave the issue in the past. rertrted they are consideriri whether r to apappott a prosecu and will make a final decisision within the next t w w wes. d in pamplona, spain,, darerevivilsame out once againi for today's sececdd to last running g of the bulls. it w w a a ratately clean r rac compmpeded tprevious yys, so three people did sfer minor juries. ah. aa busy week ahead f for wawall ststetet. the kick start o of ee business ek, of cose, begins with cnbc's steve sedgwick live inn london. good momorng,g, steve. yeah, gd d rning to o you. these markets certainly revving up over the neext fewew days. prucucerprices,e have retailil sales igures, cpi for t t inflation numbers and a a lotof corprpatate cluding g geral elelecicic, e owwrr o cnbc, goldman chchs, intel, a all reporting so we'e' h have a reay good second q qrter gauge on how we're lookokin f f theeest of

thyear. elsewhere ththe european markets etty flat after a a horrible session over in asia, thehe niki down yet again aftft a couple of weeks in aow it's be down. dividual storyththiside of the atlantic as s we,, ububs arar, u,, of urse, broiled in a b bate with t papament of justitice apparently thehey' a ao for a dedey y in oil wiwith t the miai judge juststoo tyy canan wk k t their r diererens with the doj. sewhere mcdonald's is moviving their headquararte f fro london toto neva. the iellectual prerty tax ririgh a a better overrn switzerland ththanhehe uk andd ford, its rorope vehicle sales, m may t theve turned the rner. ththeyave a 9% market share, 1.6% a a h higr. back to you. >> thanks very mu.. coming upp next,"the washingto stst" jonathan cape heart t an wrap of the sunday mornining talk shows. rt and a apap othe sunday morning talk

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welcome backo "morning joe." he with us now alongith mark halperin and john heilemann in new york, jonathan capehart and pat buchanan is with us as well. that's good, pat, because there artwo op-s, getting from all sides, yogirlfriend. wel talk about that coming up in just amoment. just saying. but fit on the sunday morning ta shows, john mccain d sarah palin's boshell announcementnd her political ture. plus, di former vice president dick cheney brk the law? that's the question being asked.

our melissa ray berger hore. accordg to the cia's new direct leonanetta kept the program secretor years. dianne feinsin says that was e wrong way to go. >> the answer is, yes, congress should haveeen told and we should have been briefed before commencement of this nd of sen sensitive program. i thk you weaken your case when you go outside of theaw. i think if the intelligence committees had been briefed, ey would have watched the program. >> reporter: direc program s id he has put end to the program. on the issue of health cre reform members of bo parties doubt it will pass by theugust deadne. >> i thinke will be through e finance committee and th's a realistic go. there really is plentyf time. congress igoing to be in session until christmas eve. >> there is no chance thatt will be done. president obamwas rit about one thing. he said if it's not done quickly, it won'beone at all. >> reporter: hearings begithis week for supre court nominee

sonia sotomayor. will rtisan politics get i the way? >> i suspect she will be confirmed. i would he it doesot turn into a partisan fightor the goodf the courts and for the good of the supreme court. >> reporter: and o"meet the press press" senator john cain on his formerunning mate's decion to step down as governor of alaska. >> i wasn't shocked. obviousli was bit surprised bui wasn't shocked. sarah and todd made a desion that she can be most effective by steppg downnd she did. >> you think she's qualifd for the highest office? >> i knohe's qualified. >> if she seeks t presidency in 2012, you would endorse her? >> look, i think 's way too early for that kinof a thing. >> reporter: palin has sa she now will be staying in politics. m milissa rehberger for "morning joe." all rit. t buchanan, senator john mccain seemed a little pained the. are you with me? >> sure.

well, i think he's dead right. it would be a mistake to endorse somee for esident of th united states o hasn't even indid she might runr wil run for presidentf the united states. i do think sarah palin has been rt by the manner in which sh stepped do and i thk the impediment to her running for president is the reareason i think shleft the governorship of alaska, what it was doing to her family and mccain was dead right here. she and her husband and ose kids have been ripped up and ripped up as few other political figure i mean, families, in my lifetime r me i don't uerstand that. >> that'sai although i would say all is fair in politics some ways wh you look at how some oth women haveeen treated as wel i don't like the wayhe has en treated, buthe's not the only one. >> hasn't she brought some of it on hersel like when she put the statement, the father oer grdchild, something that whs

people up a little bit? >> no doubt the son-in-law is sponsible for this soap opera that's bn goingn but her daught, her pregnant dauter was hammered from day on lots of rumors out there. what i this extraordinary focus on the governor of alaska's family? in the national news. >> thas a fair question and even frank rich mentions her daughter in piece. i'm going to start with that. jonaan capehart, i want to get yourresponse. got two pces i'm going to read on sarah paline from each de. she brokthe gopand now she owns it. the are cries of a constituency that fee disenfranchid by the powerful and ll educated to gamd the hoing bubble, by a news,y thefrican-americans who have ended a white monopoly on the whithouse. palin is eir born avitar.

she n solidify her followers' hold on a gop that has no aders with the guts orision to stand u to them or to her. that's frank rh. let's ve on right now to peggy noonan who says a farewell to harms. th have been ording her to spend th next two years pondering. shis a ponder-free zone. she can memorize the names of presidentsof pakistan but she's not going to be ableo know how to think out pakist. why do her supporte notee

this? i mean, its endless, jonathan capehart, but she keeps coming out the front and center in the headlines. >>yes, she keeps coming out front andenter to her triment. i think peggy noan is rig. i've been saying the same thing from the very beginning. sarah paliis a raw talent. she is someone we talk about all the time who fascinates people, fascinates the american people but she doesn't ha the discipline n the interest, it ems, to do the hard work it takes to be a real leader on t national sge. it's one thing to get atention. it'snother thing toet attention for substantive eas, for substantive issues and where she was to -- whe she would like to take the party as a leader and wre she would like to take th country if shee ven the privilegef having high office. >> but, mark halperin, we keep ying, yeah, yeah, things like at, but she's on the front page of thenew york times" today and she'sn the cover of your magazine.

is sgesting.ith what frank rich thiss bad for the replican party. someone has either stand up to her and the negativehings about her they have to saywe have toove on. people arentested in her but all that she represents right now, maybe she can change and evolve a turn into what pat wants her to be, but what she represents right now is bad for the republican party. >> what's interesting here th these headlis, pat buanan, whatld you with the weight that she carries, the spotlight that she brings with her? if you were sort of trying to chine ate where the republican party needs to go,would you list her? >> sure,look, the republican party is, at, at 20 in the polls. where are conservatives? they're at 40%nhe polls. people who belie the republican party is in trouble because it's not liber enough ought take a look at all the moderate candidates we have nominated, dole an mccainnd geld fordlose.

ronald reagan wins. but sarah palin's future, i lieve, is this -- it may not be in running for president. i don't think she out to say i'm going to run for president now and i don't think she out to decide it but she has this enormous ability to get out crowds, mive people. >> she does. >> it' attractive. in an off ye election the base is what counts. if you ta a lk at the rasmussen l, it shshat 30% of the count tremendously favorable and high on obama but 35% is tremeously against him. that's why the 2010 election is going to be aase election, a get out the vote eltion. th african-americacounity isot going to be motivatethe way it was in 2008 and she an traordary assetin 2010. frank rich and everybodyom ps on her the more attracti she is to the consvatives and 40% of the country. >> is p blinded b love? come on. >> i would never want to cricize pat's analytical

skills because they're ormous. i want to ask jonathan capehart a estion that here is sarah lin could be the nominee for republicans in 2012 and it would be a goldwater-like disaster. if tt's the case, it's worse than a goldwater-like does ser. barry goldwater was a pa gone of rigorous nservatism that his loss it was easy toee what the rd map ahead was for the republica party. i men, he was a serious person with a seriousset of ide that happened to get tunced in the national election. sarah palin does not repsent anything lik that kind of coherent, rigorous idea aut what the republin partyr the coervative movement stands for. a lot like her becaus they hate the fact liberal beat up on her. she doesn't represent a set of coherent, well-worked o views of the world. let me agree with that let me agreeith that. the description of barry goldwater wasctly right a i think the suggestion that a

of now sarah palin ha n indicated oronstrated that coherent philosophy or deep knowlee in it and ability to reallexpress it on national television in face-to-face encounters. think that is true. wheri disagree with peggy noonan is to say she n. th is an enoous ly talented person. she took on the establishmenup there and overthrew it. she d a go job as governor. e has great assets. i dohink she was brough up very, very soon. i mean, she might have done better, pele say, if s spent eight or ten years in the nate but she was brought up wn she was. >> jonathan capehart, i just want to ask you in the -- if yo look ahead to 2012 and given the decion of a bunch of other candidates on the republican side already, are we not looking at a fight here between sarah pan and mitt romney? d if that's the case, where do you think the republican party will gravitate? >> you ow, that's a great question. i member after the election

talking to someone in e republican party member a asking at what point is mitt mney, and please forgive this saying, at what poi is mitt romney going to snuff th baby? in t sense sarah palin rode this huge wave of support. she was the one w got the crowds out for joh mccain. she was the one engizing in the li of the party, butt was mitt romney and a few other people on the more thinking side of the prty who wre the ones who had the ideas and o were trying to come up with ways to save the part now that it had been trped in the electio so think mitt romney has t keep doing what he's doing and at's going up to capitol hill, talkg to republics. remember, he wt up to the hill around the time o the first stimulus package talking to republics about what they should be doing to put inside th bill. meanwhile, sarah palin wasoing lots of cotn candy like things

and garneng a lot of ess, badpress, so i think, yes, u're absoluty right. i were to put people into the 2012 showdown it would be sarah palin versus mittomney and right now i wouldsay -- i would pumy money on mi romney because i' more about substance than the style that sarah palin represents. >> i know halperin wants to jump in. we havtwo other stories t get . the cia tory. jonathan, stick around. i want to read the op-ed about the stimulus pn and what it's not doing because ithink it's really good. it takes on the president, a piece in "the washington post," which was run yesterday. jonathancapehart, pat buchanan, stay with us. comi up, senar chuck schumer. he's predicng supreme court nominee sonia sotoyor will be approved by large margin. we'll talk to senat about that as ll as the cia story in

a few minus. first, freddie bl game has sports you're watching ning joe."

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announcer: around the glo,, the people o of boeing are workining togeth-- to b bng us gether. that'shye're here. you u n make positive change in yo career. you can make a greater contribution to thehe great good. and you ca start today, by earningou degree online... at wdedeuniversity. where advanced drees advance the e ality life. wcocomeack to "morning jojoe. the first t lflf o baseball is donene and the red sox e e wit strong performamae e fr josh beckett. hehere n nbc mario solis.

good morning. the first half of f thbabasell asas is in the books, but t no before some all-star wororth pepeorormaes from around the league yesteteayay. we start o outn n betown. red sox and royaya, , fit ininni, kevin youkilis with h shot to shallow centnter jujust p proia hustles from cond. avavds the tag at the platate. sosox 1 1-0. ththat a a the offense josh ckett would need. beckett, who will l pl i in s sesendnd a-star game, struck out ven, giving up three h hitfofor career win 1 1.. red sox beathehe rals, 6-0. dodgdgs s anbrewers, national leleag all-star orlando hudson ending thehe fstst hf with a ngng. sisih h inng, from the left side of the plate. o-o-g ripping a solo shot t tohe righgh dodgers up 6-0.. in the eigigh,h, hson again. this time from thehe rhtht se. hudson hits a a pa o ohomers. dodgers head into the brbreawiwi the best r recd d inaseball. thth downnhehe bwers, 7-4. another all-star. tigers's's bndndonnge flexing hihis scle against the indians..

inge not one but t twoomome ns in mototn.n. brandon looking rereadfofo tonight's s ho r runerby. tigers mauaul e e dians, 10-1. at the other end of f th spectrum, you'veveotot t orioles adam jones. toronto's alex rios with a a hh fly ball to ceceerer. a sure home run. ad j jes making it look easysy. orioleles y y pa the blue jays, 2. to d de ance, after nine stages, lalancarartrong remains inin trd place, eight secondnd off the lead. go, eun-hee ji of south korerea wowon e e u. women's open. final rorod d ofhe john deere classic, shot of the d dayrorom stevevststrier. his approaoachn n 17s right on ththe ney. the ball hits the pipin d d th babackinto the cup for an eagle. what a shot. stririck w wonhe tournament with the final rounund 6 64. and finallllyacac to baseball fr a couple oflls in t the giants/padres s ga.. trying to makekehehe catchn f fl territoror f fli head over heels to the p paes dugout. he was okay,y,tatayein the amam

couldn'n'ttake the plbut here's someone whocould. check out the fan. she leleav h eeeet, makes thee grab and thhen a a little help m her friend to p pu her backk to heseseat if y think it c c't get anyny better, think again. she hands ththe b bal to theid next t toher. great t pl a allhe way around. 's's n every day you see a fan outplay a majoror lgugu. we'll tatalko o yotomorrow. thahank m mio. up nexext senator ch schuhume and rankingng republicannhe senate judiciary commimitt j jf sessionsns. ddddddddddd

oh, a li shot ther of the white ouse. the sun cocoming u in washinon. beautifuful picre this moing. lcome ck to "morning joe it i is 7:00n the east coas i'm mika brzezinskiki. joe scarboroh is off.. so is wilie. willie had baby. we hava great panelel for you th morning. t buchananan in wasngton a ang withonathan capehart,mark halperin in nenew york along wi john helemann. we're good shahape and we haha the good senenator cing upp as well. first look atome oftoay's topp stories. soniaa sotomayor tas the national spotligigoday when

senate confirmation n hearings begin on h h nominion to be the first hispanic jususce on e supreme court. and alalough sotomayor is expected to be coconfirmed, republicans are promising to put upup a fight. >> i am really flabbergasted by the pth andnd consistency of her philosophicacacritiq of the ididl imparartial justice. i thinkhat's a real expressionn of hers, and i tnk it will - it does nott show up as much on the lower cocotwhere you're supervised by y ur circuit in the supreme coururt. it can show up much more on the supreme court.t. >> judge sotomayor, wilill she approv? >> i belieieve shel be approve and i ink there's a very g good chance she's'soingto get as many if not more vovotes th judge roroberts gowhich was 8. she has wowed people. she makes a great mpressn. the veryry impressioionhe's made on 89 setors she's going toto make to miions of americanans as theyeyatch the heangs. shshe is goi to be a aproved bya largrge marn.

>> h he's therer and he's herer. hehe's thereand he's here. senar schumer wille joiningg us rigight he on theet to talk about ththat and much more in jt a moment.. meanwhile sosome democratic senators are callingor an investigigationfter learning congress was not briefed on a totop cia program. senator,r, we'reoing to talk about ththis. that wasas all aarently the w wk ofofice president dick chcheney. take a isten. >> the answewer is,, yes,congre shshould he been told a and we should have been b briefed befo th commencement o of this kindnf nsitiv progr. theyey could h have watcd the progogm. they could have asasked fo regular rereports onhe program. they cld have made judgments about the program m as it we alon that was notot the case becse we were kt in thth dark. >> feitein ded that leonn panetta quicy endeded t ogram which began after r 9/11 and d s repoportedlynever lly opoperatiol. still, l make remembers prising to hold hearings on the nature of theysterious prram. i'm goining t to put the word program in quotes. we'll explaininwhy later. the attornrney gener eric hoholr

may push forwaward with criminal ininstigatn into the bush adnistration's alleged t torture of terrorismsm suspects. at move couldld set t stage fofor confli with the obama whe house which wants to l leave the issue in t the past. holder is rerertedlyonsidering whwhether appoint a prosecutor and willll me a f final decisio within the nexex few wee. threre men are beieing held nnectionith the murder of a wealthy couple knownwnor adopting children withth velopmtal disabilities. e husband and wife werere shot to death whilele of their 16 childrdren slept more arrests arare excted. > south koreaeanmedia is reportrting th north korean leader kim j jong-ilas life threatening pancreatic ncer. a soututh korean tv station say the canceceras found when he had strokee last a august though ere hasn't been confirmation n of either illneses and more stormyy weher may prevent nasa f from laununching spac shuttle "enendeavr" this evening.g. yesterday the launch team c cam withininutes of sending thehe shshuttle to theinrnational spe station but heavy thunderstorms grouounded t spacececraft and itsrew of

seven. ok. here witit us now, democtic senatofrom new york, m member of the sesete judiciary committee, senator 0 chuckk schumer. we'll get to sototomayor a moment. i wa to ask you aut stimuluss and about the cia story. i ve some information. i w want to rea from bobo herbert's piece over t weekend which i think foses on one of ththe bigquestions pepeople ha abt the stimulus pl. he says ththis. the crisisistaring america in its face and thrhrtening to bring it toits knees i i unemployment. joblessness, whyhys it taking so lo, seemingly forer, for our government officia to recognize the sce of this cris and conont it directly is beyond me. anyone who believes that obama's stimul package will turn thihi jobscrisis around is delud. it was t too all, too weakened by tax cuts andnd not focused enough on crereatingjob itit's liktrying to turnrn a batt battleshipip arounwith a canoe. evenf it were working

rfectly, the stimulus wowould not come closese to stemng the cacaade of jobobssnessunleashed byhis me recsion. is the stimulus an, sesetor, goining to create thee kininds jobs that our system is hemorrrrging now?w? >> it'ss certainlyly going to eate jobs. i undersnd the anguish of a guy like bob herbert. i feel it when i heaear my constituents.. i was up buffalo yesteterday peopople ce over to me, help me find a job, it gets to u. e stimuluspackage, look, we -- the p president came ininn the worsrseconom time since the dedeession financncl marks were shot and we riskedhe geat depressssion. we trul risk the great depresession a the initial l thrust of the stimulus packe was to g some moneyut therer into the ecoconomy quickck. ifif not y'd he a deflatioionary spspal. we don't ris the great pression. the seco phase can haha t the stimulus is job creation. those are the roroad buildingssd ththe brid building and t the

lalang ofinformation technolology, cables, andnd thi like tha that'sust begiing. we'll l know or the next three, ur months, whetherer it's enengh. i think itt's premature to say e have to increasase it right now for only this reaso but a veve important reson. we a also risk inflaon a year oo twtwo downhe road andnd smart president has to look at the immediate e d has t look a at te coequences a year or two down the road.d. so i thinkhe presidedent has ndled this wel yoay remember thehere are lots of criricswho say i it's too much, lots who s s it's too lilittle. i probablyould he liked it be a little bitit more but ovoverall think you'v've got t ve it chance to work. it's done jojob one, event a dedepressionnow let's seeee i i does enougugh of job two, creat jobs.. >> do you want too jumum in? > th found the pce where ey could get a a imulus passe politically.y. on the substance, polilitics aside, if y you had to crara a stimulus bill y yoursel and coud at is, what was t the rht

number? >>t's hard pi a right numberer. i would have hadittle bit moren there. i probly would have had a littleit more on t the infrasucture side, but, again, it was a diffult tuati. rememberer one thing, whwh y're ususually a recession, frst you n't have the banks frozeze and, second, youou low interest rates. that's what we've done. president bush beequeath to esident obama 1% interest rates d a largee recession. brannew. very harard to dl with. >> and is it t te on politics that as i thinknk everyone at ts table prprobably thinks there e no politicalalsset for a second stimulus? >> there is not toooo much an petite at the moment.. now if the jobob situationon continues to get as bad as it isget worse than it is no it's s somethinge'll have to look at. itit's premature to d it nonow. if we did it now, the onomy recovevered an we had 15% flatioand more people were laid off, you'd say y why did u do it? so it's a difficult needle to threadad. they have very s smart peoe workinon this.

they'r're doing eir best anddthe go thing about bararack oboba, he keepsps his eye on th ball. he doesn't let thehe dy-to-day r ek-to-week criticisis get him off the track he knows he oughg to be on. >>et it'salk about the o other big storiesof the y. pa buchanann a jonathaha capepehart in washington,, guys j jump iif you want. i'll t it off. ththe cia sty and whether or not "the new york times" r reporti thee vice e esidendick cheney tried keep informatition from gog to coressional intelligence officialals via th cia. w i spoke e to a forme senior intelligence officiall yesteay who s said this program was not prram. it wasasn't evenlose to bebeg progm d, ththefore, there was s no rean to t talko anyone about . and d kind ofebunks the whole ory. do you t think tre needs to be annvestigation into thisis >> let me say this.. first,t, i genally agree with president obama. should be loing forward not baback. clearly lots o of mistakes wer made cleaearly it w an issue the electionon people elect add newperson. >> misiskes were made versus ws were broken?n?

>> okay. so lete get to that. my sndard is this. genelly look forward. n't be nit-picking and l looking back eve thou what was donee wasrong and s smetimes horrible. but when there areeegregis violations, ththen, of course,,u have to do somethihing. what attorory genel holder talk aboutut is egregious.s. lelet's look at anybody whoho d tortrte eveneyond whathe bush admdministrion was telling th which was too far.. as for vicpresident cheney, frankly everye is jumg the gun.n. we don't know enoughgh. we don't know enenough andhen you'rereaying vestigate a formerice president as muchh as didt like dickck cheney, u've got to becaref. wewe ought t look at the facts first. sosome of th are probably clasfied. all ofof us inhe senate ought to ok at those facts firsrsbefore we say there oug to b be investstigatio there oughtt not of t t vice prpreside. >> you'r're calng for an investigation?n? >> different strokok for different voex. >>at chanan, d do you want to chime in? polics getting invved here

popontiall >> re. we'rin washgton, d.c. i wouldlike tosk senator schume who is a big supupporter of judge sotomayor, do yo agree with judud sotomayor, who said ththat -- and b bause ose firefifighters we white she felt it was okay that the not be promomoted t the officer pition ththat they d all won inn a x competitive exam? >> okay, i think, pat, t that's the point sosome peoplare missininhere. what judge sototomayorid is what conservaves have ask judges certainly beloww the supreme court level to do whicich is follow the l law. don't put the ownn views ahead. there e re two casess right on int ithe second circuit, that saidd the court hadad to r in the way tha they did. they were not overturning a local electe ofcial. they we holdi a local elelective official. for years coervatives said dodon't wa people imposing their owviews. you can't't ip thatandow say i dididn't like the decision th the law requir on thehe sond

circuit. she should have gone againin what thehe law was and d what i thout she should dodo. >> do yoyou think the supreme court bically overerturned - --o you thinink th were in jujudicis tivism by allowing t the appointments to gogo forwa? >> it's s differen whehenthe susupreme cot does it. th admied they hadd changed years of law an mymy gues iss that i if jud sotomay were rulingoday on thatcase, she wowod have no choice but to rule the other w w beecause the preme urt overruled, which they're entitled to o do, secon circuiuit prpredent. >> you cited h phisophy quitite a bit. how would you characteririze he forhe american peoeople fococing on totoday, what would you ay? >he is one of --justic roberts started this t term modest, , which ans follows the w, looks at the facts apppplies the lawnd doesn't letet your own vivis infence the decisn --

fofollows e rule o of law. that's what sheedoes. > is she aliral? >> no,she i i a -- she i is so of moderate.. she's not far left. she'not far ght. shshe's mainstream. but, morimportantly than any of that,she follows the law. let me give y you two qck ex exampl exampl. my office e in 83%f the caases ere imgrants demandedd asylum, she o opposed it. opposed it.. didiriminaon, righght, shs fought scrimination her whole life.. it's probably in her blood. % o the time tom goldstn hahafound cases where plaintiffs said we weree discriminated d ainst, she said the law doesn't allo me. there was a famous cas called king. a black coupleaidwe were bumped fromm the airline, thehe seatinon theairline, because of our re. she said, look, i'm'm citing agaiait you because the l law i not on yr side even if the facts might have been. >> we're going to bebe caaying thee sotomor hearings starting at 10:00 eastern t time right he

on msnbc. chris matthewsws wille here for that. jojonathan cehart, i keep hearg you. >> great too see you.. what about the wisese latina commt? >> less ofof a proem than my ear paces causing me. >> sry about that. you' doing good. >> the bottom linin is it's not going to b be a problem. eveveryoneas commented o o teir background. justice alito talalked abo his italian imimmigrant rents. when you havav soone whoas as exextensive record asjudg sotoyor, 17 years,, more federal judicial reecord thanan anybody in00years nminated to the supreme court, that is far and ay the best w to te what kind off sueme court justice e'll be. lolo at herecord on the boar.

it is moodest a she dodo not alloher own persal views interfere with what eaw didictates. >> nice toeeou again. >>ood morning, evebody. > an erly morning it ison this smer mond. jonathan c capehar thanks as well. talk to you u on. >> thanks, mika. welcome backck >> thank you. > coming up, howthe gopp- how ca the gop challee sotomayoyor witht alienating female and hspanic voters? we'll ask the rankg repuican, senator jeff sessions, aboutt that and much mo more. also, e latest headlines outut of the white house w with chk todd. but first, senate majojoty whi dick durbin n will jn us and moderar of "meet the press" david gregory. mom vo: can't do his history re for him.

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welcome back to o "moing joe." 7:17. with us wmoderator of nb's "meet the prss." david grgrory. member of t judiciaryy commmmtee, sator dick rbin. ththank you r being with us. vid, let's start wit you and some of the headlines s over the weekend pepeainingo thisice presidident dickheney cia story and whether or n not he actuall ordered the cia t keep information from t t congngressiol intelligencece officials. that was the adline, front ge of the "neyork times" top of your sh yesterday. i spoke with thehe formesenior inintelligen official yesterday who said that the prograram was noa prprogram,hat it t s maybe very close toeing potentialal acteted upon but it wa n n the level ere they needed toalk to congress or anybo from the administration about a coletely deunked "the new rk tim" report. whwhere doe go withthths?

we have a snator here callllg for an vestigation. it sms like there's a lo of politicscs iolved here. >> welel it's typicically the ce t there's -- thiss just part of a series of steps that the administraraon mayant to take to look backwas. u've heard off attornrn general hold now considering bringnging a prosecutor to lookokt alleged torture during the bush a admiministrati, so this will ta some form where there w will be very seriouous questis, perhs an ininstigatn as senatotor durb indicated over the weekend. he would l like to see. we do know director panetta shut down whatever program m this wa whenene leard about itt d then briefed c congres about wht he hadad done. it was d democra only who produced thihis letterto make this public. we still don't know what the nature o o the progogram was b e certaiy know there has been n a batttt of wills here between dedecrats d the c ov how mu bbh-era programming was briefed congress. so this is certainly n not goin

toto go ay. the will be a lot more quesestions abt it and the exact nature of th program d whetether th former vi presidenenwill wghn on t tis will moveve i forward. >> pat buchanan, before wewe ge to senator d durbin, jt followininup on vid's commenents, itoes seeeem, you uld argue, th there are some political reputations atat stake here and t that thistory could back uor shore upsome polilitical putations that have been bught down rerecently. >> iagree with tht. i think, look,, on the nation seserity sues, if you'r're going to go aftetebush and cheney because thth were too totough, o ruthless, going afteter al l qa totoo militant, i tnk that's going to benefit t t repepublic party y quite franany. it willl divde theemocrac partand will raise that old spececter th these guysys are st natiol security. i'd liketo asksk david, david, has anybodody askedhe question how is it t that leon panet, whom ty said shutownhe prograas soon as he heard about it, didn't even hear about

until late june? apparently t that suggests the a keptanetta himself in the e rk for six monthsr he's noton top of the agencnc >> pat, it's a question that came upn "meet the e press" yesterday y in my coersation th senor mccain w whosked thatat very qution. one e the tngs i would want find out, why it is d director panetta did d t learabout it ununtil th point, what t happen in t tt intervening peperiod bebefore he shutut the program . that's why i think we're going to get more questions anand i think senator r durbin wl shed momo lightn what the democrats want to see in tes of any investigation n about is. >> all right, avid, that's a perfect segwgway to the senator herereecausehe former senior intelligce official i spoke toto yesterday said it wasnsn't a program yet.t. it just wasn't and t t way tt this persoson descbed it to me, was more of a spyingng or an intelligence gatheringngffort, an effort to delop a capacity y to execute a pottial oncept. ain, not somethihing at e stage in which y would be going to congressional officials

about. so, setor durrbin, welme to the show. u're calling for ann vestigion. you're c callinghis a massive ogram. how do you knonow that >> i don't't know th it's a mamaive prram. it's a d different world. something like this.s. aa predentialinding is submitted to t the inlligence committee. the intelligenen coittee can comment on it a and then program mamaevolve. it isn't't the kindnd of thingn weaturally see i i terms of lelegislatiobut the bottomom li this. there is nono exutive, no esidenwho is allowed to act without being accoununtable, accountable e anoth branch of vernment. the supre court said at. the c constitutn says hat. and d in is casase, the prpresit the e ite hoe, has a responsibility to d disclosto e intelligence committee e what they ar doioi. >> clrly you think there is someing worth investigigating here.. a lot of people wouldld ask litically for this admimistrati what are you inviting when you call for a investigatatn? you must think t that there was

some sortf suubstanc here tha is woror invevestigatg. how do y you know thatat >> i'm no lonr on the intelligence commimittee. what i'm sayaying is based on public inforortion. what i've hrd, what i've read from "the new york timimes" is that there w w at let something g under y that was not discsed to the intelligencnc committee. ththere are rrently two ongoing inveveigatio of intelelligenc activityy the bush administratiti. both of them initiated byy the bushsh administratition. the destruction of videopes that swed the interrogatation techniques. thbush administration said questions that ned to be answered condly, the conductct o of the atrneys who suggested that torture could be approveve that, o, needededo bepprove or a leastst investigated b b t bush administration. so it isn't a as if we're talng abousomething that even the sh administration dididn't cl on itsf. i ink the questions nd to be anered. we h have an on governmenenthat is s supposedo at leet abide by basic constititional princies anand as i read thisismorning's paper,r, it suggests thehe hous

inlligence committee is starting thihis investation. > want give it to david gregory for a queson. thlast quick estion, is there anytything beyd"the new rk tim" report that led your comnts yesterday that there should bee a instigation? no loer on the intelllligence committee so i ion't he access to classied informatiti. >> david grgregory, do you wanto ime in? >> senator, i thk the newews of the day with judgee sotomayayord senatotor schume said on "meet the press" you thihi she'll get ababout 78 votes. what then do youu thi republicans wiwill berying to complish in t the course ese heings? >> iope they'll ask the key questionons. there are a lot t of questns at nee to be asked and answers and anyoneneoingo the supreme court for r a lifetime appointment and thinkthey haveve a respoibility as wedi asas a minoritytyarty wn the presidenensubmita nominee, a level ofof fairss, whether or not they've c crossed a certain line, which isis hardo define and theyl be extra careful notot to cross that linine. we're talkining about a womanwho has anan extraordinary backgrou, a comomlling life story.

senator schumum said,,he most suutantia federal judidicial experienen o any nominein almost 100 years. e's good. i'veat down wiwith her onon several didifferen ococcasions. she knkns the law. she can hand hersese very ll. >> letet m ask you to follow up on thehe broader questi for the administration rigight nowwhich isis the ecomy. do yououthink that the presided and his teteam ha made mistake talkinabout glmers of hope whe at the same timeaying that- the present yinghe uldn't do anything diffently the stimululus and that it's woworking i intend? >> i thinknk the green shoots commt came from ben bernanke, m n sure.e. >> the p psident said there we glimrs of hope. >> regardless of what the sooure may be, w weare four monthsnto two-yearar stimulus progra four months. 6 billion in chks have bee writitten of the $78 billion program. some $200billion of $787 billion has b been oigated. so w we're jt gettingng starard. some $47 blion i i tax breaks given ouout, 2,000 transportati

projects.. by the me this p progra really gets gear and roll, it will l be dramatically lalarger in rms of itstsmpact the economy. >> b will it, to follow upup on david'ss question,will it cree e jobs tat wereemorrhing becacause it one thing to create jobs b but i fl like t tre's disconnectct betweenhe jobs that potentntially uld be created whwhh coulbe short-termrmjobs, shel ready projects, and the bs that we'reosing right now. >> wel it's trtre. in myy state l losingp to 2,0,0 jobs a da the e rst o this receson. so it isn't as if the e stimul is goingng to reple that but we may following on in a matttter of 18 mononths to twtw yea anotother hhway ll, a deral transportation b bl whic would bebe even mo investment in infrastructurerereatingood paying jobs s right he in america. buthat's a matter still to be bated. >> e eryissue we've talked about been importatant bu health cararis nown the balancnce, a b issue for the whe house. itit an enot just now but over the long term.

if thihigoes down the plications will be hugug the b biggestssue now seems to funding. ngressman rangel proposed a surt on the wealthy last we, the nate has dealtith lots of options. what is the esident's obligation this s week, rht now, to hlp tryto figure outut what is the fundg he would s support to get t thishrough cocongress? >> i kn the presidenen has to be o commanr in chief andnd leader overseas doining his job. i'm gladad he's me now.w. we need him. in the clolong wee before the august recess a andhe way thehe senate does it will bee dferent an thehouse. we, of ccourse, are hopingg for bipartan support which m mns probably a more conservativiv approach when n it comes to venue. >> w wt doeshat an, though?h? what's the conservatative approach? it may be different than what the hoe isprooposing taxing ople i highher income catetegories at least t that's wh i understand. we may take a ltle different ok at it but lastst we we really focused. it looked like bedlam but g goo things came ofoft. wewe focusedd onaxesealth care benefits. and th general consenensus was,

let's not doo ii neither paparty wanted to move foard with that asas a major part o ofthe progogram,maybe a small part bututot major part. >> you're not fofo a surtrtax o the wealthy ---- >> i'm not talking about what i'm for. . >> what do you seeee as a bipartisan solution oror a solution to get t t of the finance committeeee? >> i thi senator baucus h h put thisis array ofpportunities on t table, ings that we can look at and there are any. ththere are any. ii heard tat his prestation to the sesete finance committeee really was one people werere surprised. there are so many options to bee consered. >> johohn heilann? >> a a mo general question on the same topic. presidident obamhas let the congress prettyuch run t the shsh on hlth care. is it time for him on a thesese matters to step in and say this is what ii want, this ishat we ne to have happen? does he need to exercise more hahas-on l leaderip at this point the process?s? >> i think theresident can play an important role inoving e prococess forwaward. can facilitate any obstacles th we run int i don't t thin he neeeeds to sa

this is the obama plan. that mayackfire on us if, in fact, at doesn't have t the majority suppor but he is afacilitator and i nknow that's what he wants s d. i've sat down wiwith theresident inin the ovaoffice. heheaid athe end of the day i want democrats and repepublicans in this o oficeith perhrhaps competin proposalaland th i want to work it outnd i'll tell you somethingnge saidn private coconversaon that's been repoed publicly, he said i'm willining to invest everyry ounf polical capital t tt i ha to make surure thathis happens. it'shat important for amerera. ihink he's what i need to here. that's t leadershihi >> senatordurbin, greatat to he you innhe stuudio. david gregory, thank you as s wl for being on the show thiss momorning. >> thanks, mika. >>take care. cocong up next, rublican sesenator fr alabamand ranking member of the senate j judiciar committee, senator jeff f sessio will join n us. we'll be right b bk. tls are uncomplicated?

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i am really flab earp gasted byhe depth and csistency of her philosophical critique of impartial juice. i think that a real expression hers and i think it does not show up as much on the lower

court wheryou're superd by your circuit and the preme court. it canhow up much more on the supreme court k. >> all rig. welcome back to orning joe." a lotng on da here wh us nowo squoin the conversation, republican senator fr alabama and ranking meer of the senate judiciary committee, senator jf sessions. thanks for bei back on the show, si >> thank you. >> herenour studio anchor and political analyst carlos watson, a goodayo have you on the show especially with the nomination hearings under w today. ser sessions, what do you want to hear from sonia sotomayor abouconcerns y might have about her pce on the bench? >> t concern is, is she a believer in the philosophy that a jud should be a neual umpire calling balls d strikes and not be partisan the game or is she a liberal activist who feels th it's legiti for her tose her power defe

the words of statutes in the constituon to promote what she may think is thet agenda in the coury. that's a challenge and americans are concerned abou it. they don't like judges setting policy as she once said judges do. and ihink that's the chief dividing linin this confirmation. >> tse hearings, of corse, start at 10:00 am. easrn. we'll have the here live on msnbc with chs matthews. pat buchanan, senator, has a question. pat? >> senator, it to go to tis ise of the firefigers in new have do you believe tht times it is permissible to discriminate against white males in order to aceve the social goa of grear gender and racial diversy? >> yes, under certain circumstances and the courts are quite clear about hat. if u have a systemic discriminato history where you can ow, say, a police department has systatically

deed minorities aht to participate as we had the south, then you can create remedies that will -- in favor of others coming on and being selectedn those departments buat some point the supreme court has de cle that that shouldtop. they've said, in fact, it's so dangers to do this, so dangerous to favor one group over another bad on their ra th can only be done if the judge can fnd or supervise that with t strictest scrutiny. so i think that' the standard that got losthere, strict scrutiny was not evalued and the sreme court revsed or desion. >> all right. carlosatson joins conversation as well carlostake it away. >> senator sessions, i know w spent timen the hot button issues but arehere issu beyond, you will, those red at issues you're concerned out, be they election law issues in the mit of this recessioand all of theimpact of government intervention

business, are there busins cases you're thinking about? are there two or threessues you nt to look beyond e red meat kiissu at? i think the employment question is something that affects everybody. i think the judge -- don't know ectly what arehe issues ecomically. i would y this, the american people are concern about it. when i tvel around they think something ro with our law that t united states government is ying private corporations and doing things that ty never thought they ulsee. d some ofthis may well implicate the supreme urt in the monthso come and i think it is worth inquiring about. i think i'll make a satent about that in my openin statement. >> mak? >> senator, you know full wl the one thin the media has teed ups whether your colleagues on the republican side will go after her in a way a hispan woman wl have political plicatio implications.

have you thought about thetyle you need to enge in? have you tald to your republic colleagues to make sure you don't fall into tt political trap >> i think everybody on r side is convinced we need t treat th nominee and every nominee withesct and fairnes and try ask tough quesons in a way that's not mean-spirited or unfair. it's not always easy. you don't want to be a potted plant, sit back d not engage and the same time someone might say you've overreached but i beeve we've got good group on our sid >>okay. real quick -- >> people whoo a good job. >> john? >> senator sessions, you've looked at judge sotomar's record do you think she's more libera than samuel alito is nservative? >> yes. leme say this. the difrence between them is they strongly, philosophicly believe thei political views should not impact their decision making on the bch. the liberal activist on 0 the other hand tends to believe that it's appropriate for a judge to expahe law, to elve

stanrds of decency. she's a leader in the citation of forei law,actually. think it's a b differce, frankly. we would want a judge who doesn't promote any agenda. >> rapid fi, two quick questions to round out tis interview. e vice president chene cia program stor fnt page of the "new york times" yesteay saying that he tried to preve cia personnel from giving informatn to congress. first of all,hat do you make of the stor i'm hearing from high-level cia officials there was no proam. what do you think the polics are at pla here? >> i thinkhat we've had a consistent tendency of leakers and criticizers of the administration toxaggerate what's happened. so i don't knownything abou that progr, ankly. but i believe thathe vice president and his staff ted to comply with the law always and i think that the facts will probably show this is greatly exaggerated. >> a lot of questions abt what

transpir transpired. we have liz cheney on tomorr. she'll be talking about that and other things. finally, s, just curious, t page of the "new york times," sarah palin. "time" magazine cover, sarah palin. how do you think -- ho do you ink she plays as a member of your party, an effectivene, one that can be useful? what's your gut? i think a lot of people like sarah palin. she's out there, a mother. she's working. she's trying to do the rht thing. got a great enthusias about her approa to life and i think theyike her and don't thk she at all is a judgment. whetr or not she'll be the nominee or come outn top if she were to run for president, we'll all have to wait and see. ihink people feel she deserves a fair shake and frankly she hasn't gotten it in many instances. >> senor jeff sessns, thanks this morning.oming on the show come back soon. >> thank you. carlos, a you going to stick arou a bit? >>hy not? >> that would be goo up next,huck todd live from the white house. dddddddd

speechchesnn addition t to official actions where she's estioned whether judgegecacan tually neutral, whether there is such a tingas objectivivitinin t law, which means that dges areaffected by t the biasases ihihi that's a f fai area to

question her aboboutececau certainlnlththe le of w depepen on the s sa rules applying t to each one offusus no m mter our cocolo our sex or ethnicity.y. weweome back to "morninin joe." chris matthews your host at 10:00 a.m., sonia sotomayor's confirmation angs. we'll stt talking abouthat withbc news chief white house correspondent and nbc ns political director chuck todd jos us now. chuck, gd rning. >> repter: good morning. >> how are you? we are looking ahead at th hearings today. what do you ink the biggest stking point will for sonia sotomayor? is it thenew haven case? >> reporter: i think it's about her demeanor, h she hndles herselfunder questions from republican senators. does she -- do they attempto try to pe ather, see they can get arise out of her or anything, try to create a back and forth. other than that, think these

things are -- that's arings areretty formal. barring, and ihi people said this in a report i saw, barring anythinghat we don't kow that somehow somebodyug up something we don't know andit becomesme sort of odd perry mason momen nothing -- the hearings are going to be fine as long as she keeps her cool. this is about a minee -- this is the w it is for all supreme court nominees. it's about them keeping their cool during this process long, it'sdraining.t, it's senators love to hear their own words, hear themsels talk. it can be veryfrustrating. >> good lord. >> reporter: but a jge should able to handl it bett than st. >> okay. so i want to move on to the cia ory in just a minute. carlosis there anything you can add to this? will there be fricti? will there b a sticking point or willhis be like watching paint dry becaus we know 's going tohappen? just be honest. wh's the story? >> i agree with chuck schur.

i think she'll get over 70% >> are there key issue americans need tofocus in watching these hearings to look at her a say you kw at, i'm wored about "a,""b," or "c." ll she be ab to do "a," "b," or "c"? >> i think some of the ection law issue will be relevant. we have a lot of goverent we never talk about tat at all. that will be fairly significant. so i'll be inrested to hear about some ofhe leons that cod impact where som of the abortion questions are fair settled. the's not going to be significant change othat. >> chuck t let's go to dick eney and the cia, the sty in "the new york mes" yesterday. doou think the white hoe is going to, ll, perhap respond toome pressure to investat the bushheneyra and any law that imight have be broken? at do you make of this and what are you hearing there? reporter: well, look, the

white house'stce on this has evolved a bit. rly on he said i don't want to investigate. don't do this. he didn't say he was gng to go behind-theces and actively campaign but he made it clear at his position was and hoped that would carry the day. that's not going to happen. at's pretty clear. congress igoing to investigate at least via the intelligence committee, probabla coue othe pels will ju inn this. d then this issue athe justice department which obably is the most fascinating thing that i sa about it, has too with the fact there has been some tension between justice and the white house o this and, frankly, it's a story that thehite house is ting to me lemonade out of by sa, see,e have an independent justice dertment. you wouldn have seen this type ofriction in the previous administration or sohey would ke to claim. look, i think, you know, let's take all of these stories in o

big thing. really the only important -- the mo iortant thing the president has to focus on getting the publis trust on the economy and puing health care. cheney, the cia, and in some respects sotomayor are ne but they're clouding the twoost importantssues the president has to get hisrms around this week, winning ba trust of the middle on the economy and pushing heth care through. >> i would completely agree with you yet the qutions are being raised by newsrganizations like "the york times." rorter: re. >> pat buanan, chime in. as i've been reporting d i'll say it forchuck's benet here, intelligence official yesterday for quite some tme say tat go this program that cheney was apparently bloing the ciarom intelligence officials information on was noteven a program. it was not operational. was not even at the stage where you would tell mbers of

congress about it or ta to high-level admistration officials about it. is this ch ado about nothing to get the attention off wha needs to b to get the attentionf what needs tbe done? it's a massive distraion. if it's that much of a program, and pennetta hado shut it down, why wasn't pennetta informed for six months that it wa going on i his cia. chuck, itms to maep he you a re problem for the administrationf they go forward at holder's level, and theyppoint a special counl. e first thing the cia guydo is say yeah, wdid it, andere is the authorizaon from the lawys that said to do it, and cheney and the president told u to go ahead and do it. >>orter: and in the president's gut, he doesn't want to do this, and they made it

clear, they don't wanto do it. thwest wing does not want to get into this becausef what you are saying. ultimately a laer getsaido not tel you whathe law is, but tonterpret the law, to tell youow far you can push things untilou cross a line that, you kno that a judge ll say is illegal. lawyers, that's what lawyers get paid to do. they getaid to interpret the law in a way that allows you to retch things. so you are on a -- this is a ry daous aspect too after, because the cia guys will say, as you said, pat, weot theetter from theseawyers that sai that we could do is you can't suenly change the law retroactively, because ther is another interpretion o this. you knowi am sure thathere are lel minds that will fight ansay, you know, i n't know what i a talking about here, but that seems to me that it's a

legal andolitical slippery sle. >> chuck todd,hank you very much live at the white house this morng. comi up, joining the conversation, bloomberg's al hunt. but first ourhief wasngton rrpondent, norah o'donll. you are watching "morng joe" brewed by arbucks. at 155ililes per hour, andy roddidick

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top of the hour good moing, everody. welcome to "morning joe." live look at la los angeleles the sun is not up thehere. let's momove to vegas. the sunn jttarting to come up overer that incdible city,here i i am thihinking if you ok closely you mightee willie teteaching grge how to gamble. let's moveve on toanother live shshot. at leastst a etty look at the white house thisis moing. ththe suns comingng up o over t white housuse as questions abou about our economyy and e stimulus money, w where it's gog and if it's going to acally create t the jobs that are eded t there. and here in n york is w where the e show is based thihis moni. i amam mika brzezezinski. joe and willie a are off, but i have our gueuestsith us. pat chanan, stil with usrom washington, d.c. a great panel this morning pat, thank you for hanging in there with us. let's get to t topstories,

and then p, we are ging to go therere, we ar going to go ther th sarah again, becacause i have other question for you. it's j just a front page isissu. she sells, and thahat's the b bm line. i rememember sebody else that did, and it was a a candidat tt everybody made f fun of atfirsr and i believhe is now presidenent. and our top story this morning, sonjaa somayor takes the splight today. although sotomayor is exexpected to beconfirmemed, republicans se promising to p put up a ght. >> i am really f flabbersted by th depth and consisistency of e philosopophica crique of the ideal of imimpartial justice, a i think that's ann eression of her,r, and it d does nothow up the lower c court wre you are supervrvised byour circrcuit an preme court, but it can show much more on n the supreme

cot. >> judgdge, sotomayayor,will she apprproved? >> i believe shehe will apapproved a i think therere is good chance that she will getas many or more votes for rerts. the vevery impmpression sheas me onon 89 senators, shes goioingo be approved b by a large marg. meananwhil some demratic senanators are calling for an vestigation after learningg congress was not biefed on a -called top ciaprogram that was all apparently t the work viceresident dick cheney. >> the answe is yes, coness shouldave been told andnd s would have been befed before the commencemement o this kind f program. they cld have watched t prram and assked for regular reports on the p programnd made juments about the prograram as it wenent alongng. and that was t t case. cause they were k kept in the dark. > feitein add that leoeon pennta ended the program, the

program being a questionable woword, whic began after 9/11 ad never really opetional. i wi add tohat that afterer speaki to a former senior inlligence o officia yesrday, at i was tld was this was not a progrgram yet. in essee it was momore of a spying or infoation gatheng effortrt, and itever occurred top p level cia officicials it needed to go to the presint or congress becausee there was s n there there, and it a debate asas to ether it was a program and onehat wouldeed to goto congressss about another y it was characterized, ann effort to develop capacity to execute the ncept. ththe bottom line it was veryryh in the begeginning stagages. stilllawmakers are p promisg to ve hearings on the nature of it. > eric holder may push forwad into the bhdministration's

torture of tererror suspepects. obama wants to leave the issue in t past. and holder is consididering whether to makake arosecutor and will make a fil cision in the next few weeks. > three men arereeing held inn connection of the murde of the couple knownwn for adopting ildren with dabilities. the hususband a wife wer shot to death while their childre slt. more arrests are expected. > and a south korea t station says cance was foundd when he had a strtroke last gust. there has not been a confirmamation. levi johnsons weighing in on y he thinks thee alalaska govevernor resigned, and he sa it's money. this is from the "tay" show. >> aryou saaying sheesigned

becausthere was too much goood money on the table for her to stay asgovernor? is that what you aresaying?g? >> that's not t the only rereas. i am sure t there ar muiple reasonons for at she has gotting on, butt we had tons offers ming in from everybybody out there, and all kinds of ridiculous things. and there wasalk that i would be nice take the mey andnd run. >> that's what she is doing, saying? > yeah,r do reality s show r sosomething easier. >> i have a a lot of questions about that. i just haveve a t ofuestions out -- >> you have strtrong feelilings abouout tha even last wk. >> well, i i am just not sur wh levi johnson -- >> he is thinking about writi a book. >> tell me wh am thinking about it? >> y are thinking,ear ggod, i wawant to read levi jackson' book. d you are also wondering whwhy

his bodyard/publicists is named tank. >> yeah, i am. i am going orah o'doell who ha been coverg sarah palin along the way, and i will defefer to mark from "time" mamagazine. sarah papalin isn the cover. will just si here and sweat ov what i would really like to say as apposed to what i i wll nosay. rk, take it away. >> basilly now, they are saying sarah palin h has no othes, that she shouldld not a repubcan leade wewe saw senator johnhn mccain yesterday onon "meet ththe pres" looking unccomfortab, but fending her.r. what do republicacan politician on capitol hihill and e elsewhe thinink about sarah p palin rig

now? >> r reporter: think thahat mny thk that she isnteresting to watch. i think people a pplexed b her. how can she be sortf disorganized, her stafaff disorganizeded, and how is it s can be, perhaps, n be thehe smarartest thinker in the rerepublican parrty, but she ha star qualit sh has s staruality that don't live in washinington or new yor and they like someththing about her and so what if allll ofou media types a big political folks don't like her.r. will she cpaign for candididates? ablutely. peop want herr. she could get 10,000 or 20,000 people t to co out to event, sof course peop will a ask her to campaign wiith them. >> norarah, that's the ttom line. was just showing thehe fro page of thee "new y york tis." you lolook at what they write.

she is signg a baby, i believ a baby'y's by. i ha never been askedo sign a baby. pat buchanan, take itit to nora and try anandick aparthat is going on barring g what levi johnson haso say? >> first, withegard to levii- please, please. >> tododd ought to take levi do the creek and hold hihis head underr watater until the thshin stops. >> that is a reality showow ri there. >> lete talk a about sarahah palin. weave heard f from ggy that she desppear to have t the credentis or capapacity i foreign policy she is n -- well, she has a

granddddaughtethat has problem, and she c be ththrown in in thehe campaign, a anddriv mccain up intoo the leadad inn weeks. thatat's an extraordinary accomplilishment litically. republblicansave not de that sisince the ys of reagan. there obvbviously something, as folks say, thataybe shedoes not t have the credentials or capapacity to understand forere policy and all of the nuances f now,w, but tere is something the. >> pat,t, you u are righ i think it h has to do th the fact tha she is ayoung woman,, and a mother, because there is an appetite inn this cocountryo ange. wewe sawt in the st election with barack obobama. people want difffferent kis of people i in olitics. an sarah palinin is a diffent person. she is from alaska, whh makes a hugeultural divide with the lower 48, but theact that sh is mother ofof five children. d they h a big fund-iser

ornized and charme advisory presiden dick cheheney and z cheney, and why? because liz cheney anoer powewerful wanhat has raised five kids.s. there are nonot a lolot of wome on capapitol ll. and there a are 12 otherwwomen, heads of states acss the world. and this is, i think, wat is so fascinating abo he oth than the fact thathe is ququoerker, d her family has a lot of drama thatt otr families had,d, too, and thahat's why pe aree putting her on the front coverr of magazis and whyhye love talking aboututher. i cannot getnough of sarah h palilin. i thinkhe wholele ting is so fainating, pat, i am just like you. it'secause of what she represents. gender sex, politics, money, etc. > frreshness and authenticit. when folks comeeo w washingto and spenend a t ofime here,

they getnto a moldldnd things like that, a and thehere iso tural electricity leftft with them, andd shehe has that. of couourse it's the f first du thing, the fact that she isn outdoor oman, andhoots her owfood, and a all this stu, and frh and fascinating. >>he two of you, i wll tell you right now, firof all -- >> and we aare off the show.. >> don't go anywre. andd norah, i hear what you ar saying i am not trying to mamake a jok but i i hear wha you are saying. i feel and i haave been sayiingo the guys thi morning, so convoluted abobout her story. i feelike i i say everyththing that everybody h has said, that everything everybobody is sang, exceptpt t the cruel stuff at i diculous, and they haave a pot to be made abouout her. she is a touch stone. e is on the front page of two mamajor publications,, if notmo. >> shis so good f baracack obama. >> a " "morning e" does not

advocacate any violence a again levi johnson oanybody else. thatas priceless,pat. >> i lovove it when he chimes i on ts and other stories. noh, if you coul stay that would be great.. >> sure. > here now, wasngton executive of blbloomberg, a al . al, good morning. >> good momorning, mika. >> befe we leavave t sar palin sty, i thhought you might want to adddd yur ththoughts > i just so stunned the mbinationf p pat and the firsrst du and levi and mika, i don't have anythining else t add. > you said it all, al.. i t think w c could go on for qe metime accept we haave a key ise that confrts this issue, ststartingith the stimulus, a a you y that oma cannot avoid taxes in fixing the fisccaless. are we g going to be sing a

rod of tax in what cacapacity and is this stimus plan going toto actuaually createte the j t we are losing >> i am not sure abou the last question. i thinit's premature. i ally believevehe enomists haveve a right that you can onl spend mononey so quily, and most of the effect will take pla early y next year. wewe wil see.e. someme sayt's not eough and others say youou need more ttim. and there e is a secd issue, whether works or doeoesn't work, andhether heaealth care passes or doesn't pa, when that all er, a year oror to from now they will turn arouund and faface deficits as trillion dollars, as far r as theye can see, and thehey will haveo lael with the long termroblem which may m make the stimulus look ea by comparison. >>ou m mention in a piece that you receny wrote, weay look at a consumption pass and sales

tax, and whynot see mre democratss rall behind charlie ngel where thehey say th gave tax cutss tohe althiest, and why notrecapture some of thosese fundnds? >> well, se of tthat, charlie rangel and othersrs ll try to d inin health care, carlos,and there wi be efforts tohat effefect. but there are n not eough rich pepeople to ke up thatat kind o trillion dollar a year deficit er the next ten years. i don't ththink thatnybody wants to getack to thetax rates that prevaililed 30 or 40 year ago. i think some it cacan be -- it will bee had ther but i still think you will have to think in tes of the overuling the tax code entirely. >> john hhere. bebetween the white house and congress o over manyyears,, and you sasaw how clilinton tried t hand health carere in the

'93-'94 years, and barack obama has let congressss run the shown hehealth ce rereform. there are a a lot of people tha ththinks he needs to be more assertive.e. what is the right balalance fo him to get the bill done this ar? can he cntinue to be asas hands f as he has been? >> no, he can't be asands off they he gotten the groroups tother, the groups and th doctors d the h hospitaland theyave done that f better an the clinton folks did i in '93 and '9 and they are abov t frey.y. and righght now it's starting t cause gre problems. the billll is in danger of unraveling from ththe house d senate. obama d rahm emuel have get invovolved starting today they waiaited too long. theyannot be above the frey any longeger. >> pat buchanan? >>al, you read, i a am re as we have, about ththe oma's pol

beining in somtrouble, ththe ai is going out of the baoon a bit. do you think thehey misslabeled this thing when theyey called a stimulus package?e? yoyou read that only 10% is out e dodoor, or 6% oror 7% oft is out the door. did thhey miss label this thing? >> i thi they exaggerated t the efct, pat. they weretalking about shel-ready jobs, and thehey hiked it, butut idon't ink ere are serious e economts thatat thoughthere would bebe me money. it not a bunch of bureau u krats not ltting the moy out, b it takes a while to o spend th sort of mey. butt theris no doububt th hike it in ththe beginning. >> nora how about thee idea, anand the republicans h had it, knknow, bu cuing the payroll tax in half or ployers and employees, and t that cuts io peoples' pockets and an

immediatate jolt a and a spendi jolt for the ecnomy. >> se libels like it, too, pat. do youou do itas a e-shot basis,or permanenent bas? but i thinkthat will probably be at the tableeat some pnt in ththe next s mononths. >> nonorah o'donnell juump in. >> i want to return the e issuef health carere upup here capito hill. lot of talk aout whether theyy can n meet the augustt deadline. there was a seor congressioional aide sayingalking about the deadline i is impoant to keep the process g going andmoving. dodo you thi they can reach t t august deadline bebefore they ave for recess? i don'n't think there is a a chan in n the world. i thinkk the can get a bill througugh the senate. i think the hop is to getet througthe senate finance commitittee. that's going to be uphill. and conceably get a a house b bl through. afteter whatome of the conservative demomocratsdid las week, that's goingng to be challengnge. >> norah, tnk you for sticicking

around asswell. >> no dobt. anand cing up, she talked whwhats at stake withhotomayor. u are watchining "morni joe" brewewed by stbucks. in six different ways? introducing listerin® total care. everythin you need to strengthen n teet help pve cavities, and ki ger. introducingngn 1 listene® tot care. e most complete mouthwash. d to complete your oral re routine add superior plae removal in placeththat are hard to reach th reach® toothbrusush and floss. get t cplete routine,

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the jge has given a lot of speechesesn addddit to herer official actctnsnswhwhe shehe

requested whetethejujudg could bebeneneual, which anans judge are affectete by their biaiase anand at's a f fai a are of questioning heher. and certainly t the se ruuless apply to eachh of us m matere our r corr or sexor ethnicity. y you cannatatch that liive he on msc.c. riris tthews will be your h onon tt.t. anandd here withusus now right e on the set off "morning joe," senior itor and contributing righghr r for t the "w york titis.s. emily babazen,n, did i say it rit then? yes. >> a and inn this, th say thi ouout e sototoyoyor quote, there are someeople congresshat wodriritize severely anybody president obama nominateted.

yoyou oke pepensely about the importance o o another woman ining the court. >> one of t the thininshe said s itit jt t esn't look riigh in ee y ye 2009 to only have one woman. shis not ready to be the lone woman aroroun the plpla. anand ee has beenen since justi o'o'coelell retireded. >> you guys traded leettssack and forth, old-fashioned leletts, and what surprisedd yo the most aut the exchanges? she is a v vryry warm person.

and that does not cme across. but in ersonal, e was frfrielyly a exemely kind to me. >> in fact, i was taken ckck. e was really o opewith you. she talaldd about affirmativeve acacti in her ownasas at columbia lawaw sooool d the poportity to getapapinted and etc. didshshe say at this point th shehanged herinin since she has been on the court? i i d't think so. she came into thee court of a strong r recdd l ligigatg for women'n's rights, , anseseei discrimimitition law in this way and she c careded through on th same ppriipips. > did she sayy enough hahad done, was trere morein her mind that the c crtrt nds to d don the berts/alito era? >> i thinkk thinkk iththe fututu she wouldii toto see a sex

eqeqlilityasis for that ruling.. >> even thohohh this is a co-equal brcch, these arere pretty mysterious pepeop. doesjustice giginsrgrg want ansparencyo come tohe high court?t? >> well, sheasas taed inmomo lawyerly settings. i ththin t that she isis findinr voice toto someegree in that regards. >> justicegiginsrg is s th seseco eldest memberer othth ururt behind justice sstens. here any talk,, andas she open witith u u abtretiring? justice s suirr r rerere in his 60s. >> sheis76. she was treated for cancer th winter, but she seemed very vigogoro.. i thinko o th contrary, myy sesens washat she is very innenr

jettic. >> give me a senen i am readadg g he swer,anand s she hd strong opinions about how rididiloloushe felt some of the atattas were? >> rrht. rtrt of it is a q quo thatat y read about the i ideaahat somamar in talking aboutut latino wowome being j jdgdged w really talkingngbbt how everybody brinin a aifferent experience t to e e courtrt it's notifif youaa woman or minority, and that's trueor althth juices. i thinkk then also t th she wanted to make clear thatat evereryby y could,ouou know, ha this kind o o inpnput >> w wt t di she y, if anhing, emiilybout jtice

rorobes s d his role a as chief justice? s s at cngngedhe court significantly i h h mind even e e wainwhich it is r?? >> well, s she talked with fonenessbout the prioior justice, andthen she taaeded about heralal c colagaguewith wawarm.. and sheementioned juststic scaca anand brbrey a a hard qqueioner. and this nototio that s sotayay is more so didn'n't keke sse to her. d d shsaid sotomayorwi hold her own. >> patbuchanan, iave an ereralpolitics question foror yoyou. if therepubublinsns if they go after herrndnd ffin i i esess spot where shehe i weak, athth riskingg perhaps alalnanati certrtaigrgrps at this point at a timewhwhe theepublicans n't r rlllly need o?o? pat,t,rere y there? >> yeah, i amhere.

can yoyou hear. > a ask you is. whwh a are t t r ris for the republblics?s? >> actually,y,hehe rsksk are nt there on that t side. ththe alal problem for republicican q qte frankly, is that they don't sttanupup for their principles. 96 senatoror voted for ruth gibebe. and whatat they wawa their senators to do i is snd upn n the issue of reversese discririmititionand the new han case,anand the otheher thins whwher it seemss clear that sotomayor will vlate, ifouou wi, the c cill rightsslaww scriminate against white males, a and even thgsgs le diversity and morere hispanics, and eetc t th wantt people toto fight on that.t. the r rea dananrr i ceceive tatamityty >> b bad d onhat i nono would

novovo for heher. but based on her recorord, would novote for her, bauau i think that she believeves that judges ought t make w. i t tnknk she says that's's er thower s. when s she ys, you u ow, ttt latina women w wilake b betrr decicisis s th white males, thht word better, is not thatthehe comes from a fferent background, andndififomomody sad whitemales would bebe making betterecisions thanlatinos, that would nevev go over. >> and wchch john mccccai the way he vovot. watch h. i think it's interereining. he votes for sotomayor, i thinkhat s sss a lot aboutut whereeepepubcan politics s a gogog.g. >> i don't thinkk t record matches the nonotihat she is activist. she voted against ththe aiaiiff in theheasast majority in n th discriminatitionasases that com

before her. i feelel like thihis notionn ban the one liline in a spch that shshhas ginn has been bln .. but didi she t say th the votete s shod be extenendeo fensnsn prisonsececau nying the vote toelons in isons has a impapact because re hispanics a and afafrin-n-ericans are in pprin? that's wild j jucicialak acvivistm. >> yeaea she didid take the sta on thehelalawsf new yorkrk laws beininununcstitutional. anand at's not out of thee mainstreamam >> that's notutut of the mainstream? >>at, hgn ththe.e. >> is out off my ininstam. >>pat h has a differentnt mainstreamam. >> what mainstreaea a a you talking g abt,t, pat?

>> affirmative action haha been defeated i in lilifoia and the state ofwashington, anand in chchan. evy time it's put on thth ballot, they tkeke it down. and so this iss i thinkththis is goingng to be thehe real thi they are going to askskher aut. > right, buthh fifirmive aconon rling before t the supree court ruled and reversed the opinion that sotomayor w part of,, she was followingg prior precedence, and shshe dd w wigl roroombut not t th much. shwawas t going out there in some unexpectctedtrtrge wawa >> weii watch thehe heariri at 10:000 a.. eastern time. ththanyoyofor c comg g in. great article and g gre interview. >>hank you. > mimi uu a b weekff ececomomicata ahead. we will chchec with busisine before thebell, whh cnbc's erin burnett. and also whoho is r resnsible f the c couryry financicialcrisiss an thor offers a clear answer when "morning joe" cononnunues mom vo:o: i can'to his history repoport for him.

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not playing with the kids? n on these legs. poor leg culation. doctor says itit's p.a. peripheral artery isease? hmmm more an doubles your ris for aea attack or strok so i hear. better ask y doctor about plavix. plavix can help protect you from a heart attack or stroke. plavix helps s keep blood platelets from scking together and foinclots, e cau of most heart attac and strokes. mymy cousin the m.d. cacall yr doctor about plaviix. (male announcer) if you have a stomach ulcer or other conditio whwhn taking plavix alone or with sosome oer medicines s includg aspirin, the risk of bleedingmay increase sote your doctor before planning surgery and, always talk t to your doctor before e taking a airn or oth medicines withlax, espially if you've d stroke. if you develop fever, xplained weakness confusion, tell your doctctor prompy as thesese may be e gns of a rare but potentiallly life-threateningng conti called ttp, which has been reported rare, sometimes in less th t two weeks after starting therapy.

oter rare but serious se effects may occur. wcoco back to "morning e." it's 3 3miminus past the houur. it's time foror c che on businene b befe the bell with bc cnbc's eririn rnrnet >> gooooddmorning, mikika. and this is going to be a v ver

busy week. the most imimpoanant ing toeep ananye onssbanks. fincncia overall. we willet the earnings numbers from goldensacksks,ndnd then whole lot of broahah on that.. and a most pple anticipate those numbers willll b very,ery strong. goldman n has been t the recipi of government moneyy and payngn at back. it one of thososehihings wherer we thought thehebabank would do tter, and they start doing betttter, d d en people say are they helpingng ariricaconsumers d doi b bter in spite o o them,nd then polilitill for could enue. bank of americicanand citigroupp come oututonon friday. d d rhaps o all o those,, titigrp may be t the most poportt, as it's s silill pepercveved be the weakestt of allthth banksn the country. w, outside of nknks and nanancl, one importatant story lilieded to .

g, and what they do isis finance loanfofor eququipntnt to memedi-s-siz bbusesses. ifif they ne cranes office eqpment, anything along thhat gamut there. tt had gten government money, an ey m mahave to filile bankruptpt.. that's a v versignificant thing. itithould show the government is gogog g totep back,k, and start picking winnnnss and loose agn. that will l be ry important. and that ishehe sty, cit will opopen sharply lolow. andhhe will no treasuryy issuanan,, afttwo w wksks where amamica has t tededto get the st of the worldo buypp o debt. we are taking a breaeak. >> itt's avevery concise rrort. ththanyou very much. we will seeouou tomorrow. here w with now, the auuthr

of aiailo tition how greedd and easy mey cororrupt w wl street a andhohookhe economy." anand will talk aabo.. >> wehaha found ourur situation ere in sted of allowing capitatali i in e marketss d d what thehey areeupuppod to d to pick winners and losers, w willo o ll a and what comomnini are wellll run, we decided ge inheheay of ththe process by hangnghe government c co in and say to cigroup and bank of amamera a an merrilll lncnc and mber of ohehe compananie w w are going tooakak taxpayer mey ananbail you o even thoughh you deststyeyed ur own companies, d that p pross is how we beg e whole downwnwdd spspiral.. > too b tofail bececam a phrase that becamam rt of the

nguage. >> t that' rit. >> how do we keep that from happening but not crcreate an unnatural syemem thatat bars t word catatasm? >> welell, too big to fail g g baback to the early'80s,s, and w we havee a situauation t te a lk at citroro as an exaalele. not theyey areoooo bigofail, ey are too gg to cceed. so much leveverage d depyed for every dollar of pital that they adad, they hadd $35oror $4 worth h ofthther e equiesesr otr ststudtsts. the risk managemementoror someththinththat size all but impossible. it's not a surprise. look, this i n not thefifit time they rannto trouble.e. we had the prlelem with t them the '8 and previously.. every titimee e go back t a cititigrp p and reward tmm for really, reallllyad m manememen andd losing share holder'smmone, andpuputtg bondholderss risk, they clean up t thrrct for a

couple years, and tnn become more aggressivive d d mois spec y - - >> you saiaid eyey s the table fofor e next bubble, and so whwt are we setting thehe tablefor now? >> thahat' r ralally the trillilion-dlalaquestion. >> literaray.y. >> yeahah, w had lot of reckless bevior, both fromom mortgage brokers and walall rert and main n rereetanks and the multitrillion dodoarar bailoutt imieies ere wille a biggerr bailout. anan w m m talk in 10 or 2 2 years. one e ofhehe arguments ithe book isis if did no b bai out chryrysl i in 1980, perhaha for d gm -- llll, thistiti gm dd chrysler, butt al of the u.s.

automakersrsouound themselves a risks because nonobodyadad the adjujustme.. an theythought, that's j just chryslsl.. >> you lookok a the huge aununt ofof money invovolv h her the hihistor of poparar aner against other bailoututs, why now?w? >> i think the be trade y you can make on w walststre today is to getlong pitch f fksks andnd torch totohes, because the vast t ma je jo -- majojori i is ing to g uetet well, aendency to throw the bums out. what we saw i 2006 d 2008,8, the dodomina party of the moment at the time,, it w republicans gogotossed out.t. you g back to 1980, andnd t th sasame thing. e d demoatat gotot t tsesedout. unless the obaba administratioi

tsts religion fast, youou will e the cycle tn again. veverstructurall c chaes in the u.s.,t's just let's t rid o of ththem >> it wii be hard tigure o out a w wayhat doesn't createe nene bubble and doeoesnstart this procs s l over again. >> if t the recession gets m mu wors i am not roototinfofor this, a i hope it doesn'n'thappen, if you see unemployment pick u up to 1, 13%, 14 t tt't's when the tctchfks and the torches c come ouout. it's not a a hhprobability,y, bt 25% possibilility at thingsgs get worse e rkrk the ressssion lolookhat happened in japan. they h had the bksks eyey deeme too b to fail, and10 or 12 years later, their recession finally ended. >> what about thehe role of

prosececioion this, looking at lfeasance have we been g gd at cleanuppprocess? >>hahat i think weeneed to do, especially with allhehe bank thth are ingiviventataayer mumustnotties, if you taake the bonus s >>yeah,anand they are back in ththe wsws again. > tse bonuses were based on ofofithatururedout to be fafakefrauaulelent we should bebe clawing babackho boses. you should n n b able toto destroy a a cououryry wide and walk away with a a thhat monn.. >> yeah, whehere a are all the boboseses >> yeah, heas on the frontnt line of saying he wanted to g into this, andrew cuomo. >> yeah, we neeee a n sheriff

town, and i thinink th would go long y.y. >>yeah, and les start the prpress andee what h hppppento the e of it. i will fooll-u-u on that. we w will h he that for totomoo. thbookbailoutnanati," great tetervw. we apprereatate you comi . > > wh we come back, we wiwill keke aook at theheocial i imct of the movieie "bruno."." the socicial impactct keep it right herere on ororng joe.""

>> how did youou fiind your son? >> i swapd him. >> for wh? >> a an ipod. it was limite ition. >> wait second. you arare the ba's father now,

and youu chos to dress that bay up i a t-shihat says what? that not thehe baby's me, is it >> i gave hihim a tradiditional afcan name. >> whahat is the baby'y's real ? >> o.j. > tt was the top eararner. and h here tobreak downhe numbers. tray, you havto educate me. i am what would define here on "orning joe"s very unpop cultured. d they makeun of me. i ve not seen a movie i in8 years. whats the v value of "bro." totop earner att the box office. shou i go? >>ell, you k know -- >> it't's the first movie that haveve seen 18 years, is s tha r me? there are many, mamany tings

th haen in this mie that i could nottdescribe onon tetelevn or tell my mother, and it's ana in-your-facece movie. >> does it have value? >> no, i wouould say no. thefirst "borat there is a lot going on. >> educate me o on the value. >>ith borat, h he ismaking us talk about race,e, andusing american racism. and i have quibllesith him about that. he is geetting white peoples' faces. and on thiss one, h he just w w to be a celebty. he iss not makingngus disiscuss homosexuality. it's just perfornce. it's's just being gay inizarre

situations, and makes s people reacact. he gets ron paul in a situaon, and hehe just leaves. he goesto beeirut and confrfro andterrorists, andd h gs a mean l look is all. >> what about ula abdul? >> well,he gets thehe garardene to sitdo, like o on their handss and knees, and en hehe says paul abl, these are mexican human chaiairs that sit on. and come ! ii am thinking, paaulababl clrlrly ows what is going oon, bebecae ater "borat,"" and e si o othe meexinn pople chairs dd didiscsese humanan terrrrorm.m. and pauau a abd said she did not knowow wt t wa g goi on,ndndheh

isortified becausehis hahappeded. and pamela anderson knowswshaha is goingon, a- i i a glad you ntionedaula abdudul. otherwise ihave nodea the peleleou are talking about. >> sasha cohens the star of isis. >> "bnono" does $30 millionono 2700 screeeens,, an so the ene for"bruno" isis n quite there. >> i havee to go,but of thiss grgrp, what moviehohold i see? "public enemy." > y a a going to briring me movienn a dvd and make me wawatc

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