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from yesterday around 5:00 new york time. and if you look closely you'll see me ka in the crowd. went back to the scene of the crime. certainly the story. rock music. so you went back yesterday. we got out of a meeting and a long, miserable, horrific meeting. it was one of the worst things probably i've had in media and i walked out and heard this song. as everybody on the show knows -- >> he's a god. >> for me it gets no better than paul mccartney. we wanted to block out the news. paul mccartney on top of the ed

sullivan theater. an incredible theater. as you said, willie, he looks great. he looks better than he's looked. his voice really, and i've probably been to six or seven mccartney concerts through the years, his voice stronger than it's ever been, plus he played songs from the white album, helter-skelter, back in the ussr. right in the heart of the city. an incredible scene. right in the heart of the city. this doesn't happen in pensacola. you look up at all the buildings and people are out of the windows looking at this concert. unbelievable. >> a rooftop concert since the notorious one in london. >> the last real time they got together and jammed on the rooftop in london. >> look at that crowd. what a kick. >> mccartney looked over the crowd and said when are you getting back to work?

aren't you guys supposed to be working? >> nancy snyderman, something not as cool -- pretty good but nothing like this -- that's kind of like the guy you're sitting with at the dinner table and you say, what are you doing? oh, i have a tv show. what about you? i'm an astronaut. i walked on the moon. >> i did that with a friend who is your famous relative? i go to nathaniel hawthorne. she says i go back to the magna cata. >> she was related to a doctor. pretty impressive. how was the president? >> engaged and re-energized. he asked about barnicle. he wanted barnicle. he thinks he's the new spokesperson to get it going. barnicle is the only one talking his game. you are not on the agenda, scarborough. >> if barnicle is the answer to the question, it's a stupid question. >> exactly. >> on health care. >> and i was defending you. >> thank you.

>> congratulations. he's the drain on the system. >> i am the ball and chain. >> we always hear medicare and medicaid. >> i had no mri last week. every test imaginable last week. >> talk about wasting money. >> good. good for you, mike barnicle. keep it up. >> i can't wait to hear about the interview. we'll get some of that but first the top stories of the morning. all right. we'll start with the confirmation hearings of judge sonia sotomayor. of course with her confirmation the supreme court all but assured the judge will face a final round of questioning before a senate panel this morning much like previous nominees. sotomayor is largely sidestepping controversial issues including abortion and gun control. she did, however, take on senators -- senator al franken's question about legislating from the bench. >> judge, what is your definition of judicial activism? >> i don't use that word because

that's something different than what i consider to be the process of judging which is each judge coming to each situation trying to figure out what the law means, applying it to the particular fact before that judge. >> that's different from at duke university that judges make policy. >> yes. this morning's "washington post" talking about a program to develop hit quads to kill al qaeda leaders overseas killed the program after what officials call a, quote, somewhat more operational phase including a proposal to train teams of assassi assassins. >> they claim it was hatched

after 9/11 because people thought it was dormant. it was killed in 2004 and then this year they restarted, said maybe we can assemble the teams. they went to panetta, hey, we'd like to get this thing operational. it's an on again/off again since 2004. from that point, no. dennis blair also said it was ineffective, would be ineffecti ineffective. and so it came with a recommendation, though, according to "the washington post" to make it on 0 racialal and to brief congress because it was going to be operational. dennis blair, the head of the top intel it guy in america, said that it was a judgment call by the cia. >> interesting. >> and whether or not to go to congress. >> whether to go to congress or not. he said they should go to congress because they need to be closer partners with congress. today a pair of congressional committees are set to hold votes on a massive $1.5

trillion plan to reform health care. it comes as president obama continues to call for action from everybody. >> it's time for us to buck up. congress, this administration, the entire federal government to be clear that we've got to get this done. our nurses are onboard. the american people are onboard. it's now up to us. we can do what we've done for so long and defer tough decisions for another day. or we can step up and meet our responsibilities. in other words we can lead. "the new york post" talks about the tough choices being made to tax the rich. if you live in new york city, according to "the post," that gets your taxes up to 57%. >> must read op-eds on both sides of that. >> that will bring people to manhattan. can you imagine? >> you can't afford to live

here. >> or living in california. it's miserable. but you do get to see paul mccartney. >> that's true. walk out of a bad meeting and there he is. >> you have to give away six of every $10 that you make but you get to see paul mccartney. hey, listen, you have to love new york to walk out in the street and by surprise walk out into a paul mccartney concert. there are some things worth it in this city. >> i love manhattan. but do i have to pay a tax rate of 60%? >> i think it's a little troubling. we'll talk about it. >> a little troubling? >> and msnbc's nancy snyderman who sat down with president obama is with us in the studio to talk about the president's push for health care reform. we're going to get to nancy in just a moment. the area around the u.s. capitol building will reopen this morning after a nearby shooting yesterday left one person dead. police say a man tried to speed away from traffic stop striking

two guards and crashing into a police cruiser. police shot the suspect after he got out of the car with a handgun. nasa engineers are looking over images of the space shuttle "endeavour" which apparently suffered minor damage during yesterday's launch. pieces of foam insulation came often the external fuel tank striking the shuttle several times. officials say the 16-day mission to the international space station is not in jeopardy. and following up on a story from yesterday, the pentagon says it has no plans to ban smoking -- >> amen. >> by u.s. troops in combat zones. nancy, you should have seen the gangup on me yesterday. >> mika, today at 2:00 i will walk in front of the veterans administration hospital in philadelphia. i will walk through a wall of cigarette smoke to go see patients diagnosed with cancer. you tell me. >> okay. >> you tell me. >> thank you. >> this is crazy. if you love american service men and women, then you know what,

step up to the plate and get cigarettes out of their lives. >> thank you. >> at least say we give a damn enough to change policy. >> okay. >> willie and i do care. >> i feel better. >> we care about troops. and barnicle -- we do. and barnicle is going to join us here. we're actually going to start -- >> you all want them to have cancer. >> a cigarette drive. every troop that's in a combat zone to be able to relieve stress by smoking cigarettes. >> this follows -- >> can't you think of more innovative ways for the boys to relieve sfles. >> if you love america, you, dr. nancy snyderman, you will get behind this drive. >> be quiet and let me finish the story. >> it's not -- why are we doing this? why are we doing this? >> this story -- >> i love america. >> be quiet! follows a study which recommended the tobacco-free

military. a defense department spokesman says u.s. forces are already making enough sacrifice. >> that is some pretty stupid logic. speaking of sacrifices, let's go to bill karins. he has the weather. >> bill? >> mika, do you like having dr. nancy here? >> i do. >> it's like your bouncer at the table. >> you know, yesterday, the insipid, ridiculous mocking -- >> what do you mean? >> -- of my support of helping these people be healthier -- >> a cigarette has taken already. >> just give us the weather, please. let's talk this morning about it's a little warmer, feels like summer for once in new england start iing off at 7. unfortunately there's rain in the forecast. we have it already from the upstate area of new york through vermont, new hampshire, and into periods of new hampshire.

an umbrella day for many areas of the east. hail and damaging winds possible a anywhere in the yellow including much of new york, into areas of new england and the new york city area, a chance of strong storms later this afternoon. it will be warm before those storms hit, though. we'll call it the 0 in d.c. 88 in new york. boston right around 84 today. we also have strong storms in the ozarks with flash flooding. even the memphis area we are looking at very strong storms. the forecast, the rest of the country, hot in dallas, getting hotter out west. chicago, 82 today. it will only be 70 tomorrow. i know you may complain about our cool summer here but chicago it's been even worse. this will go down as the coldest julys ever. >> thank you, bill, very much. >> he raises the bar. someone else who does that as well here with us now on the set, nbc news chief medical editor and host of -- what? >> nothing. i didn't say anything. >> host of msnbc's "dr. nancy."

i love into. >> that is great. >> dr. nancy snyderman, who sat down with president obama yesterday in the white house to discuss his health care goals. trillion dollar health care goals. >> over ten years. >> did he explain how to pay? >> it's interesting because the president has been the big picture guy and i wouldn't say he's gotten his hands dirty with the details but now things are coming out and the one thing i asked him about yesterday was pharma and hospitals and the american medical association, everyone -- insurance companies -- have been asked to pony up. he talked about bucking up. i asked what he's going to take to the american public and here's a look. >> i haven't heard anyone ask for the american public to pony up to, that a this is going to require some give for all the stakeholders involved. >> let me talk about what i think the american people are going to have to do. first of all, the american people have to recognize that there's no such thing as a free lunch, right?

so we can't just provide care to everybody. it has no cost whatsoever. you don't end up having responsibility. >> so self-responsibility? >> self-responsibility is going to be critical. >> he knows he got derailed last week when he was out of the country. he has jumped back in, re-energized and this is it until the august recess. >> and he wants health care to pass fairly quickly. >> listen, i think this is where he's going to get some push back. you can feel reports out of congress saying yesterday, wait, wait, wait, this is so big and massive and sweeping, why are we now in three weeks having to come up with something to have on your desk to mull over in august, to come back and duke it out in the fall. there's no doubt he's say that go buck-up comment was directed to the house and the senate. >> we talked about this with the stimulus. we talked about this with the bailouts. about how this is like the war

in iraq. you stick a gun to america's head and say we have to radically transform this country one way or the other and we have to do it now! the thought of health care reform, a massive bill which democrats will say and some republicans will say is the most important thing in the world, you really want to rush this? >> well, i guess the issue would be if he doesn't get it down, he may never. >> the 2010 midterm elections are around the corner. he has said if they don't do this the democrats could be in jeopardy. >> the president, as you said, is not even involved in the details until now and we're talking about getting this done in the next month or two. what a nightmare, mike. nancy is exactly right, this is about 2010. democratic strategists have said unemployment will keep going up. the stimulus package is not going to kick in. we have to have something to show our voters. you really want to screw with

1/6 of the economy and people's health care this quickly? i'm not saying you don't have a thoughtful, meaningful debate. when you're going to transform the economy -- >> that was one of the things that surprised me yesterday hearing the president speak, there's this idea you fix it in august, september, or october and it's done. he's talking about this implementation over three or four years. one of my questions to him is if you commit this much money and if you say we're going to overhaul the health care system, but then you say we'll have it done by 2013 or '14 i'm not sure our attention spanses are that long. >> do you get any sense from the president or the people around the president they have a fallback position, something they would be willing to settle for this fall? >> i did not. i did not. one of the underlying things they deny, would he veto something that does not have a public option to it and nobody was willing to go on the record for that. >> there's much more to see of this interview. dr. nancy snyderman, thank you

very much. you can watch that entire interview today at noon eastern right here on msnbc. looking forward to that. also asking about cigarettes. on the other side of the show -- >> hold on. let me tell you something. if the president of the united states wants to smoke cigarettes to relax, i want -- >> wait, wait, wait. >> i thought that was going to be your out. i thought that would be it. >> stop it. >> you don't want a shaky, nervous president. >> oh, gosh. coming up, cnbc's maria bartiromo, "the washington post's" david ignacious -- >> should i pick up smoking, dr. nancy? tell me about weight loss. i need to lose weight. >> the cia and the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. he was there yesterday as secretary of state hillary

clinton delivered a major speech on foreign policy. congressman peter hoekstra opposes the health care bill. plus, "morning joe" has an exclusive look at the new cover of "time" magazine. and when we come back, a look at the stories politico is working on this morning. >> holy cow. mr. president, i know you hate this but is the battle of the cigarettes going okay? >> i'm doing quite well, thank you. mom vo: i can't do his history report for him. mom vo: my job is to give him everything he needs to succeed. mom: that's why i go to walmart. vo: find all the brands those other stores have but for low walmart prices. vo: like dell, hp and toshiba.

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call or click today. have you been watching the confirmation hearings going on down there in washington, d.c.? sonia sotomayor, the hearings? have you been watching those? good news, the fda has just approved a new nondrowsy version of senator orrin hatch.

>> really? bored by the confirmation hearings, unbelievable. with us executive director of politico, it's jim vanddeheim. why no green shirt with the red tie? >> he's much more fasable than i am. >> really? >> i'm cheap. i have a couple shirts, a couple jackets, so you're not going to see a big eclectic gathering of clothes on the show. >> i think it's better that way. >> a simple man. right to the playbook. what's the first thing you're looking at? concern for president obama in some swing states? >> big time. there's been so much focus on how he'll get few if any. one thing that keeps the white house up at night, they see the more moderate democrats getting more nervous. those in swing states like indiana, hey, why are we moving

so fast? saying things joe was saying earlier on in the show, like why do we need to do health care reform today even if it's the right thing to do especially when we're trying to do energy and spent so much on stimulus. the deficit just went over a trillion dollars. they're monitoring those members to figure out can we bring them into the fold. >> is that the issue with the obama white house? they see their poll numbers have dropped, 13 points, according to a couple polls,a couple of months. do they see the window closing on this honeymoon? are they trying to rush a health care plan in before they completely lose those moderate democrats? >> they're certainly nervous about it. when you go back for the recess breaks, when they go back in august, you're looking at three weeks where you'll have two health care bills that include tax increases, a cap and trade bill, and you'll have that deficit number that went over a trillion dollars. that's a lot of stuff for outside groups to spend money pounding these moderate democrats and it happened when they went back for july 4th and why you saw a lot of democrats in places like indiana vote

against the energy bill. they're hearing their constituents say they don't like these ideas. >> can you imagine being a senator from indiana, evan bayh, going back one recess and having to defend an energy tax as critics would call the cap and trade bill, and the next recess you have to go back and try to defend an obama health care bill. the center will not hold in indiana. with mccaskill in missouri, with landrieu in louisiana, with ben nelson in nebraska. this is a tough, tough haul. >> one of the universals is people know when they have no money, their checkbooks pay the bills. they know when they have no money. when the federal government has no money. >> what is the president doing to push his agenda through personally, he and the white house? >> one of the reasons they still feel confident, they know the president has a lot of political clout and he's willing to use it. you see it yesterday. the democrats, the dnc went up

with ads essentially against their own members, saying they're not naming the senators but in those states and saying we need health care reform and we need it now. they're willing to go after their own people and to whack republicans. obama spent time with david who ran his campaign and now runs basically his campaign outside of the white house. they're going to be running ads. they're going to be organizing in all these different communities. the president has told democrats if you're getting hammered at home, i'll come tower district if it helps, get my organization behind you if it helps. this is a real test for this political machine because for house members if you're up in 2010, you don't really care what the president thinks in the short term. you want to do what you think is going to help you. you can look at the top line numbers, okay, obama's numbers are moving down. independent voters moving away from democrats in the swing states. if they are, the political calculations change dramatically. >> speaking of running ads, the white house is running an ad for itself.

exclusive video to show us. >> the white house gave us some exclusive video to post at 8:00 a.m. from his trip to africa. if you take a look at one of these efforts like flikr and other technology devices to polish that obama brand. >> we're showing a little piece of it now, up on the web later. always checking you out at politico.com. >> take a look at the morning papers. "the new york times," photo shows new haven firefighters attending the confirmation hearing of judge sonia sotomayor and more from those hearings today. "the washington post," sotomayor elusive about abortion and other issues. how about "the washington times"? hillary clinton offers reckon sill ation to taliban members who quit fighting and renounce al qaeda. "usa today," the fed says jobless rate may hit 10.1%. wow. "houston chronicle" 40 years ago apollo 11 launched on a mission

to land on the moon. historic day. mika, what else are you looking senate. >> "new york post," sick joke, successful new yorkers would pay 57% mega tax under obama-care. and a good day yesterday in new york. >> who needs mopey when you can walk down the streets of new york and see paul mccartney? >> that's true. >> wall treat street is on a three-day rally. a check on the overseas markets live from london plus mika's must-read opinion pages. ( conversation )

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wow. that is a nice picture of washington. washington, d.c. >> welcome back to "morning joe" just after 6:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at top stories. confirmation hearings for sonia sotomayor are expected to wrap up today. in yesterday's questioning, the 55-year-old sidestepped questions on abortion rights and the second amendment saying that if confirmed she'll likely face the issues on the bench. according to ate soes yated press july is on track to be the

deadliest month yet for u.s.-led forces in afghanistan, at least 46 international troops including 24 americans have been killed this month, a rate that approaches some of the highest levels of the war in iraq. and three drivers are recovering with only minor injuries after escaping a fiery accident that engulfed a michigan interstate on wednesday. the cause of the crash is unclear but officials say it involved a gasoline tanker and a semitruck and the car. flames shot 200 feet into the air collapsing the overpass. willie? >> the headline in this morning's "wall street journal" cit rescue talks collapse, the first time the u.s. has declined aid to a struggling financial company of a scope and size that large. let's get a check on the overseas markets now with cnbc and louisa. >> reporter: the cit story definitely one we're following t. could have a widespread

application. they lend to small and medium companies. we are keeping our eye out on that one. our european bourses are slightly higher across the board. pulling the drug sector higher, our best performing sector. i want to show you nokia. those numbers have just been trickling through the past 15 minutes or so. you can see for yourself a direct reaction to the figures lower by approximately 7.5%. they are scaling back on their market share forecast. they're cutting it saying they now expect 2009 to be flat. before they had been looking at a little bit of a rise. we've seen a very strong tech rally in the u.s., as you know, that sped through here as well. maybe not a huge surprise to anticipate a little bit of money coming off the table because we have had such a good run in the techs. other than that we're looking at electrolux on better than expected numbers. many of the companies these days indicating we are seeing the

markets slightly bottoming out a bit. back to you guys. >> let's hope so. thanks so much as always. we'll talk to you tomorrow. the new republic's michael crowley will be here plus today's must read opinion pages.

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what makes you think this woman is unqualified? unqualified to get into princeton and the court. you're going through the whole situation here. >> she said herself she was an affirmative action baby herself. her words. >> you said scores are irrelevant. >> nowadays they are. half these kids get straight as

all the way through. it's a joke. >> all the more reason -- all the more reason to open the door to people who are qualified, people who graduate -- >> other than by tests. >> who graduate sum cum laude from princeton and make the law review are qualified. oh, pat, come on. >> that lady up there versus a scalia? come on. >> oerngs my. >> everybody makes as these days? it didn't happen to me. >> it didn't happen to me. >> it didn't happen to me either. >> that's why we're all here. ouch. >> wow. pat knows some smart people, i guess. >> nowadays straight as. >> there are people who get straight as at harvard and people who go into tv news. >> that's us. >> thank you, mike. with us now senior editor -- he probably got straight as --

absolutely. michael crowley. >> i know the answer. >> michael? what was your gpa? >> i forget. >> geek. >> i was smoking in the boys room. >> sure, yeah, yeah, okay, you were. right. you're such a bad -- okay. >> stop it. >> let's go through the must-read op-eds and i have two sides on how this health care plan is going to be paid for. >> fascinating. >> yes. "l.a. times" spread the pain of paying for health care reform. this says it suggests most americans because of course the costs are going to be leaning on the wealthy it suggests to most americans that they're getting a better health care system for free and it makes one small group pay for improvements that benefit everyone. tax it on the wealthy and

businesses can help but the middle class should contribute, too. not only because it's the right thing to do but make the funding less vulnerable to economic downturn. that makes sense in a way. joe? >> the president says everybody has to sacrifice but everybody is not going to sacrifice. hey, i have a great idea. let's tax the rich. let's tax businesses. let's tax small businesses. if that works, then a lot of centralized states in europe would have done much better. margaret thatcher would not have been necessary. >> michael crowley, do you agree? >> well, look, tax rates right now are lower than under bill clinton. when they raised taxes in the clinton budget republicans -- go back and get the quotes. i wish i had brought them. hilarious. the worltd is going to end. the economy will go off the cliff. we'll become a socialist state. didn't happen. i think health care in this country is just indisputably a

crisis. you've got to do something about it. there's no cheap fix. and somebody is going to have to bear the burden. the issue with the middle class they're going to wind up facing higher taxes to pay down the deficit longer term. pain is going to be spread around. don't worry. the pain is coming for everyone. right now the way you get a health care plan through, you probably have to go to the upper income. >> so tax the rich and tax small business? >> well, joe, first of all, the tax rates on the rich are a lot lower than they were in the clinton years and the clinton high tax rates on the wealthiest led to a pretty great economy so i don't see why that's necessarily a catastrophe and even though we're in hard times now, a lot of people are still at the top doing quite well and did very well in the last several years. and there's also public support for taxing the rich. i've seen polling recently that says that, you know, large numbers of americans feel like the wealthiest could be carrying more of a burden and the last point i would make it's in the

interests of the wealthy to fix the health care system in this country. it is literally going to bankrupt america if we don't do something about it and that is not in the interest of the wealthy and small businesses. oot almost a harold ford three-pointer there. very impressive. a couple of quick points. i'm not going to redebate the 1990s but i would suggest republicans coming in and cutting taxes and also cutting spending has something to do with the economy exploding as well. also, the president has promised to repeal george bush's tax cuts so that gets wealthy americans up to 39% and then you have a 5% surtax. that gets us up to about 45%. you add on taxes that you and me and everybody else are paying in cities like washington and new york and los angeles and suddenly americans are paying 60% of their income to governments on all three levels. that's not sustainable, michael.

the answer here can't just be tax, tax, tax. >> eye fei feel i've had a simi discussion with you. what is the alternative? you made a powerful complaint that obama is spending too much, that the stimulus was too big, the problem is, i'd say, what's the alternative? you can't do nothing and there's no way to do this. >> guy, dude, guy, buddy, as they would say -- buddy, guy, it's not an all or nothing proposition. you don't have to pass budgets that have deficits that the head of the cbo says will wreck the economy or do nothing. there is a middle ground. there is moderation. we can choose a more moderate course. it doesn't have to be harshly libertarian or radically centralized. there is a middle ground here.

>> i'm not a cbo expert. >> that's what the president tried and that really challenges the intellect of people that are watching this show. they're not that stupid. >> let me respond specifically on the stimulus. there's good evidence we did not do enough so there really is an all or nothing. the problem in japan -- they never got out of the hole. >> there's good evidence that the president turned this stimulus package over to nancy pelosi and she turned it into a political pork barrel bill worth about $800 billion. >> i am not going to give the congress a flat "a" on handling the stimulus, that's right. the stimulus isn't perfect but with health caver, joe, you have to make major changes to fix the system. it is going to bankrupt the country. >> i agree. i agree we are going to bankrupt the country if we don't take care of costs but the president doesn't address tough decision that is have to be made on telling all americans you don't get everything you want. all we're telling americans, and we go to "the new york times,"

this is what concerns me. all the white house is saying we're going to take care of the health care deal. we're going to tax the rich. you won't feel it. we need to share the pain. i agree with the "l.a. times." >> beyond the political will that michael talked about, "the new york times" says strong health reform bill, the wealthy, has benefited greatly from bush-era tax cuts and their incomes have risen disproportionately in recent yea years. it seems proper they should contribute heavily to an effort that is vital to hard-pressed americans and the long-term health of the economy to an exte extent. doesn't that make sense, joe? >> listen, i think it's, as i said before, i think our health care system is immoral. it's immoral people can take, can have a headache, go in and have five, six, seven c.a.t. scans while a single mom has to take the kids to an emergency room at 11:00 for primary care, 11:00 at night. i want to see evidence that how

your taxes will reform the system will save the system. as i said before i will support a health care reform plan that makes the tough choices to not only provide health care for the uninsured but a holistic approach that saves this system and that drives down cost and, yes, some would call it rationing. but we're going to have to make tough choices. >> that's where you and i agree. lest you think i'm blanket supportive, something they're steering clear of which is now the new third rail in american politics is at what point do people in the government or in some new systems start saying, no, you can't have that treatment. the cost benefit ratio doesn't work out. and the way technology is moving and making end of life care so much more expensive, that is the inevitable point we have to reach and for now obama is dodging it. in the campaign he used to say tell people what they need to

hear not what they want to hear. that is the thing i'm most disappointed in. >> just for the record, michael, for people who watch this show day in and day out, they know i've been saying that from the beginning. we have two issues. we have a moral issue in sharing the uninsured and we have a math issue regarding how the health care system collapses. all we're taking care of right here is the moral issue. it will make us feel good. let's insure the uninsured. guess what the uninsured will see their health care system collapse even if they get universal health care because we're not handling the other issue. like i said, i will support writing whatever check i have to write as an american if you give me a plan that saves this economy and saves this health care system. this president, you and i can both agree, this president and this congress, they are not addressing the tough questions. they're doing what makes it feel good. >> they are trying to save the economy. the guy inherited close to an

economic global collapse. >> that has nothing to do -- >> hold on. that has nothing to do with long-term health care costs and you know it. medicare and medicaid are going bankrupt regardless. we've got to make the tough choices and -- >> i understand. >> you agree with me -- >> you want him to save the economy. i'm saying, he's trying. it's not something he can do overnight. i don't want to sound like robert gibbs but sometimes we forget what he inherited. >> you're confusing two issues. i'm not talking about the cycle we're in right now. i'm talking about the long-term unsustainable costs of the health care system that have nothing to do with how our economy was in 2008 and 2009? don't you agree with me? let's agree. let's end on an agreement that this president and this congress need to make tough choices and drive down the costs and they're not doing it right now. >> that's right. they are dodging the hardest questions and some of the biggest questions. >> okay. we'll leave it there. michael crowley, thank you. >> i love michael, by the way.

even though he made all as. i haven't even graduated yet. >> he wore a bow tie to school. >> come on. i was very cool. >> he's so defensive. i was cool. >> do you know where i can get a ged in new york? >> yeah. come with me this afternoon. >> let's get one online. at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick

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the game was broadcast on fox, the sister network of the right leaning fox news channel, and some people are now criticizing fox because they say they depicted the president's pitch in an unflattering way. that's true. yes. that's true. yeah. here's how obama's pitch really looked. take a look. okay. here is how it looked on fox. take a look. >> boy, i hadn't seen it from that angle. now that i see it -- >> that's really not fair. some quick sports here. >> you're so talented you should have your own show. >> why don't you get one? >> martinez back. the philadelphia phillies introduced pedro martinez.

one of the greats. signed a one-year, $1 million deal. he's been hampered by injuries, won only eight games over those two seasons. here's what he said. >> i still feel like i can still bring something to the table. i still feel like this team needs a little help, very little help, and i think i can supply a little bit of it. >> they're already in first place. does he have something in the tank? >> absolutely. 1999 you could make a case he was the best in history. >> one of the best seasons ever. >> that '99 all-star game, struck out the side. >> stage 11 of the tour de france, a rider takes a tumble here. one of my favorites. he'd be okay, they tell me. good news. how about lance armstrong still in third place overall, just eight seconds behind the overall leader. another sprint to the finish. lance armstrong looking for his eighth tour de france title.

and in golf the first round of the british open is under way in scotland. harrington is the two-time defending champ there. one more story. richard jefferson just recently -- >> good people. >> recently traded to the san antonio spurs, slated to get married here in new york city over the weekend but informed his fiancee via e-mail that the wedding was off. >> but he gave her plenty of advanced warming. >> what was it overnight? a couple of days? she was already in new york, all her girlfriends getting ready to have a big wedding at the hotel and richard e-mailed her and told her it was off. >> who was that? >> richard jefferson. >> r.j. that's bad. he admitted to doing it in "the new york post" today. up next, some news you can't use. megan mccain with harsh, harsh words for joe the plumber. most for headaches.

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oh, it time, willie? >> it's time. this is going to be an exciting version of the news you can't use. maybe you want to put ear muffs on the kids for these two. step out of the room for two minutes. you always ask for smut. it's the next one i'm concerned. megan mccain in an interview with "out" magazine, a

wide-ranging interview was asked about joe the plumber. actually she brought it up. >> a big mccain supporter. she loves him. >> he stands for america, country first. >> megan wants to run away with joe the plumber. >> it's a variation on that. quote, joe the plumber, you can quote me, is a dumbass. he should stick to plumbing. >> we have to get her on the show. >> please come on the show. barbara walters, we love her. we love "the view." >> she's great. >> they say what's on their minds. it's america's -- she was talking about the bruno movie and some of the explicit scenes. kids, seriously. here is barbara walters. >> if you have a parent, do not bring your parents to this

movie. there are close-ups of . it purports to make those homophobic no more. i don't need to know how you are doing intercourse. what i'm saying is this is a movie that is -- almost as pornographic as any i've seen that's in your neighborhood movie theater. >> she's like, and i know pornographic. this is pornographic. >> whoa. >> barbara walters on the new bruno movie. >> i'm going to go see it right now. >> actually i'm not. >> i don't want to see it. >> i have no desire. >> what? come on. >> you want to see it. >> it has no value. >> come with us. >> it's nbc universal? >> we own it. we own it. >> oh, wow, we can't wait to go. >> you're going to love it. >> i'm going to take my 5-year-old girl. >> oh, no, you are not.

it's a film the entire family can enjoy. family fare. that was interesting, willie. >> willie, that was fine, i guess. >> mika with the news. a lot to talk about today. i'm trying to deconstruct what pat buchanan said about sonia sotomayor. those hearings go on for yet another day where sonia sotomayor will be asked tough questions, say nothing, she will be confirmed after people say things on both sides of the aisle. also, we saw paul mccartney. >> i want to play this again. >> that was very exciting. >> leave that music up maybe going to the break because we -- there was like this great concert. you walk out of a meeting and there's paul mccartney. you've got to love new york even if you can't afford to live

here. >> middle of manhattan. >> 60% taxes on new yorkers. >> but you get paul mccartney. time now for a look at top stories. >> it's worth it. >> kind of is. with confirmation to the supreme court all but assured judge sonia sotomayor will face the final round of questioning before a senate panel this morning. much like previous nominees, sotomayor is largely sidestepping controversial issues including abortion and gun control. she did, however, take on senator al franken's question about legislating from the bench. >> judge, what is your definition of judicial activism? >> i don't use that word because that's something different than what i consider to be the process of judging which is each judge coming to each situation trying to figure out what the law means, applying it to the particular facts before that judge. >> this morning's "washington post" is revealing new details about the cia's now canceled program to develop plots to kill

al qaeda leaders. cia director leon panetta killed the program after it entered what officials call a, quote, somewhat more operational phase including a new agency proposal to train teams of assassins. today a pair of congressional committees are set to hold votes on a massive $1.5 trillion plan to reform health care. it comes as president obama calls -- continues to call for action, action from everybody. >> it's time for us to buck up. congress, this administration, the entire federal government, to be clear that we've got to get this done. our nurses are onboard. the american people are onboard. it's now up to us. we can do what we've done for so long and defer tough decisions for another day. or we can step up and meet our responsibilities. in other words we can lead. meanwhile, the area around the u.s. capitol building will

reopen after a nearby shooting yesterday left one person dead. police say a man tried to speed away from a traffic stop striking two guards and crashing into a police cruiser. police shot the suspect after he got out of the car with a handgun. >> nasa engineers are pouring over images of the space shuttle "endeavour" which suffered minor damage during yesterday's launch. pieces of foam insulation came off the external fuel tanks striking the shuttle several times. officials say the 16-day mission to the international space station is not in jeopardy. and following up on a story from yesterday, the pentagon says it has no plans to ban smoking by u.s. troops in combat zones. they should do this. it follows a study -- >> it's about freedom. >> it's about health. >> that's what we're fighting for. >> we're fighting for freedom. >> we're not going to be able to fight if we're coughing up a storm. >> it's really going to stop

those guys from charging the cliffs in normandy. you know smoking causes cancer and kills people. >> you have not proven that. >> what are you going to do? >> don't be stupid. >> you and your junk science. you and your junk science. you've seen the evidence. >> are you going to tell the guy carrying the 50 caliber machine gun up the hill after the taliban, hey, put that machine gun down, take that cigarette out of your mouth. >> you know cigarettes can kill you. >> i think that's the point. you guys are making a ridiculous -- i can't even believe i'm -- just don't even -- just stop. >> i think this comes down to the fact, mika, that you hate the president. if our commander in chief wants a cigarette so he's not jittery -- >> did you see his answer to dr. nancy snyderman? >> let's get that answer up. >> seriously -- >> you always interrupt me. >> i know a fibber. stop it.

>> it's the same thing with the troops. >> stop it. >> if this relaxing somebody -- >> it actually kills kills them. >> maria, do you agree? >> i do. i'm not a fan of smoking but, you know what, they're fighting for our country, mika. let them have one. >> but do you know how much we are paying because -- and what it's costing the military, the health care? we're having a health care debate right now and the health care plan could cost trillions of dollars and smoking is a major cause of it. why wouldn't we try to stop that? >> i'm just talking about as it relates to the troops t.. >> i'm sorry we love the troops. my bad. >> maria loves america. >> yes, i do. i love it. >> let's see what the viewers are saying. let's see if they love the troops or are on mika's side. >> this one comes from naples,

florida. when did "morning joe" turn into the health nazi era? how can someone so hot be so wrong? >> talking about mika. >> they think you're wrong. >> i don't think you're that hot. >> i'm sure they were talking about -- mika is hot. hello. >> they were talking about mika? oh. >> it's the gender, mika. >> you are a health care nazi. h hey, speaking of health care, we've got maria bartiromo. she owns cnbc. >> yes, she does. >> speaking of health care, i just have to say this is one more thing that this administration has done domestically that scares the hell out of me. they say we're going to reform health care, one-sixth of the

economy and we have to do it now. now they're talking by august recess. >> that is exactly what bothers me about this, that and they could only tax us -- >> they're almost there. >> adamant about getting it done in the next couple of weeks. such an enormous project, an enormous program where obvious ly we're all impacted. i don't know what the rush is, why we're rushing this through by the time they go on vacation. >> explain the rush even though you don't agree with it politically. >> the door is closing. the president is hemorrhaging voting support from independents. you've got moderate democrats in the senate hearing from their constituents more and more every day. that being said, mike barnicle, health care reform is so complicated. there's a reason presidents have been trying to tackle this for

years and it doesn't get done. as nancy snyderman said earlier today, the president has been very vague about what he supports on health care reform but now suddenly saying we've got to get this done in a couple of weeks. you can't transform our health care system, one-sixth of the economy,a couple of weeks. >> it's complicated, i would think, and controversial because they want the whole ball of wax which leads me to ask you, no one has witnessed the economic collapse in this country more than you over the last year, year and a half. i see -- tell me if i'm wrong -- a similarity between how we got to where we are fiscally with the financial services system in this country and health care in that one of the components of the problem we have in the financial industry is the housing industry. people went in to buy $250,000 homes and the broker said buy

half a million dollar home. those who don't have health insurance, no, no, let's do the whole thing. have we learned nothing in terms of costs and what it costs us? >> yeah, i think the goals are so outsized. we have to help the 50 million people not insured. i feel like maybe i'm hypocritical. i don't hear a lot about prevention. we need policies in place because a lot of what we're paying for, the significant cost is going towards diseases that were preventible and towards caring for our elders. the troops, it's a different story as far as i'm concerned. i do think there should be policies in place for that but how do you pay for it? >> a health care crisis but now we're approaching, i think, perilously close to having a fiscal calamity. >> no doubt about it.

i hate to just go after one thing you just said but we're trying to slim down our troops. but it is part of the overall health care debate. it's actually not. >> it's a small, small part. >> smoking -- well, look, the effort to try and curb it in the military would be a very good start to the overall -- >> but i can't imagine the pressure these guys are under. >> i understand that. but obesity and smoking related illnesses and all these things that we do to ourselves are what's costing us all this money and why we're sitting -- would you stop it? stop it, stop it, stop it. >> a larger part of the crisis is what mika was talking about, when a 78-year-old man or woman goes in, not feeling well, let's give her or him $12,000 worth of tests, mris, and things like that. we have to figure out how to scale back all the testing.

>> we need to go back to what you said, mike, because we said this a couple months ago when the president fs proposing a budget that had unsustainable deficits and we would call people on the show, well, we have to do something. and you'd have pulitzer prize winners. you've got to do something. is it all or nothing? they would sit there with a glazed look in their eyes and go, you've got to do something. and it reminded me of wall street over the past eight years. we don't know exactly how these numbers add up. we don't know why our houses are quadrupling in value. someone smart on wall street has figured this out so i can have an afrazier come out and triple the appraisal on my house and then get a second or third mortgage on it because they're telling me i can sell it and still make a profit. we're doing the same thing in washington. everybody knows these numbers don't add up. we called them on the show. they sit in that chair and they say, we've got to do something.

>> you're not going to get there just by raising taxes. it just doesn't add up. you're not going to get enough r revenue to put a dent into the deficit so you actually have to slow down spending. there's no other way. and the assumptions are unrealistic. i talked to you about what biden said, we misread it. well, how come nobody else did? >> and i am going to challenge somebody, "the new york times" or "the washington post" or the "l.a. times" or the "chicago tribune" or any of the great newspapers, please, do an investigation. i'm stunned i haven't seen this. maybe i just haven't read it in your investigation. do an investigation why those miscalculations and what it will mean. >> you won't read it. >> suddenly our $20 trillion deficit the administration is admitting is going to have to be

higher because their assumptions were so overblown. so they could propose more spending. why haven't i read that issue? this is a simple issue for the health and welfare of the country. and nobody is reporting on this issue. again, if you tell us the economy is going to grow at a 4% rate and you still say we're giving you deficit that is are unsustainable, suddenly when it grows at a 1% rate, those deficits go from $20 trillion in eight years or so to $25 tril or $30 trillion and you're not reporting the story. >> it's the lovefest. >> report the story. what's your response? >> we have to go to a break. i've seen it, report it. i absolutely have. i'll pull it up. i've seen the white house projections being countered by economists that say the projections are way off. i've seen it -- >> well, right. but we're not talking about that. we've said, already, joe biden

has admitted they made miscalculations. >> okay. we'll talk about it. maria, stay with us. >> you should not get so angry. you're always angry and interrupting me. >> coming up, the president of the council on foreign relations richard haass -- >> support the troops. >> you guys need to make a choice. you and you, is it about spending or is it about curbing social behavior. you don't want either. you could argue you don't want anything. richard haass is with us. he was with secretary of state hillary clinton. peter hoekstra is with us. "morning joe" has an exclusive look at the new cover of "time" magazine. and up next the latest headlines out of the white house with chuck todd. undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather

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if i go home, get a gun, come back and shoot you, that may not be legal under new york law because you would have alternative ways -- >> you'll have lots of explaining to do. >> i'd be in a lot of trouble then. >> okay. with us now nbc news chief white house correspondent -- are you upset? >> no, i'm not. >> really? >> i was digesting that clip. >> okay. >> ricky ricardo or senator cobu coburn? >> here is chuck todd. chuck, do you smoke? >> reporter: no, i don't. >> okay. >> good lord. >> you're not a drain on the health care system. >> does no one watch mad men around here? >> mika, come on, no nanny state

here. don't be telling me if i can or can't if i want to go smoke. >> one or the other, though, people. one or the other. that's all i'm going to say. >> reporter: one or the other? >> you don't want a nanny state, you don't want all these things banned, you don't want people healthier, fine. i understand why there might be issues with that. >> reporter: i love pringles. >> are you going to take his pringles or alcohol away? >> pringles are high, high, high -- >> reporter: you might be able to take away my alcohol. actually don't take away my alcohol either. >> are you going to make him shave his goatee. >> pringles are high in fat and salt. you probably shouldn't have them. >> reporter: you and michael bloomberg are going to tax me. i'll payed $30 a can. >> that will pay for your health care with the extra we make. thank you. >> you children's life must be a living and breathing hell. >> stop it. because we're aware of what goes in our bodies and we make decisions that are clear and healthy. >> what do you eat like ramen

noodles? >> reporter: that's a lot of salt, joe. she wouldn't allow that either. >> no. >> lettuce? let's talk news of the day. how are the sotomayor hearings going? >> reporter: they seem to be going pretty well as far as the white house is concerned. frustrating, that clip you showed, that was the first time these hearings showed a little bit of life where you actually saw there was a question about the constitution. coburn asked an interesting question. he almost used the phrase, i'm just a doctor. i don't know about your ways with the law but is there a -- the question was, is there a constitutional right to self-defense? and for a moment they were actually talking about the constitution, debating that. most of these hearings have not been that. they haven't been questions of sotomayor. they have been rebuttals. it's been the senator talking back and forth with each other.

sotomayor gets in the way sometimes. >> democrats are talking about roberts. republicans. it's just you're exactly right. it's political theater and there's a great opportunity to actually talk about the constitution. it's not happening but she passes overwhelmingly, right? >> she does. >> what is the white house thinking? >> reporter: i've always thought 71, 72. someone said obama could nominate jesus christ or something and there would still be 22 republicans voting against him on it. >> that might be tough with sessions in alabama. >> reporter: somehow we're going to get e-mails on this one, joe. don't you feel this one? i probably just really stepped in it and i'm not even really sure how. >> you did. >> reporter: a ham sandwich would get 22 votes. >> now you're comparing jesus christ to a ham sandwich? what's wrong with your mainstream media types? is nothing sacred?

a ham sandwich and jesus christ what a comparison. >> reporter: you did it, joe. >> you did. you have some explaining to do. so let's move on to health care since we've exhausted the sotomayor hearings and showed about as much depth as most senators there. >> reporter: we did more detail than what's been happening at the hearing. >> you talked about a ham sandwich and compared it to jesus christ. over to health care where you actually have the president of the united states saying he wants to reform health care and he wants to do it now. why is the white house pushing this so hard now? >> look, joe, you should know better than anybody else when that calendar gets closer to an even numbered year, suddenly these guys on capitol hill have a harder time casting votes in favor of anybody other than themselves. and so if they're going to get health care -- there's a whole series of it tough votes on health care. it's not just about talking how you pay for it and is it a

deficit issue, is it a tax issue? they're talking about doing some cuts to the growth of medicare which you know in the past democrats have successfully use that had to beat up republicans in the past so it's not an easy vote for democrats on the medicare issue either. so you throw all that in there, this is not an easy vote politically. and it's -- these guys are more likely to vote with the president on this i'd say before november than they would be once that calendar gets awfully close to that even numbered marker of 2010. >> marie has a question for you. >> chuck, let me ask you, what are the other options in terms of paying for it? where do you think this debate goes in terms of taxing the higher income earners in terms of paying for health care? are there any other options on the table aside from that, what, 5%, 5.5% tax on the highest? >> reporter: yeah, i would not

get bogged down on that. i think that's a house plan that isn't going to get as far as people think. that has not got a lot of support. that is not going to have as much support in the senate. i know this house number, this is what's been dangerous politically in health care you have these various bills and then people say, okay, what's the president think of this surcharm, that 5% surcharge on millionaires and even a 1%, 1.5% surcharge? i think the taxing benefits issue is something so many democrats on the senate wish would be back on the table. the white house politically just doesn't feel comfortable doing it, at least the ones that have experience in the campaign because they use the issue to beat mccain over the head on it and, frankly, they took the tax issue away from mccain on that specific issue because they said it was a bad idea. i still think -- my guess is the surcharge thing goes away when it gets into the senate. >> chuck, i love seeing you in

the press conferences. you are great. i love when you ask the president a question. >> he is the best other than chip reid but he is the best. >> do you have to give your questions in advance? >> reporter: no. no. there's no questions in advance. where does this myth come from? >> a lot of reporters said they have to give the question -- >> so in other words the president knows what the reporter is going to say. >> reporter: what reporter says this? >> helen thomas made a big deal about it. >> reporter: no, helen thomas got mad with the huffington post where they coordinated but none of us -- >> so you don't have to put your questions in advance? >> reporter: no. >> i think chuck takes issue with that. >> they have a seven-second delay over at the white house, too, in case they ask a tough question they can cut the feed, right, chuck? >> reporter: it's the leaf blower that they use. >> chuck, thank you so much for being with us and supporting the troops.

i'm going to get us a black ribbon. >> reporter: cigarettes, pringles and a flask. >> chuck, great talking to you as always. mika, i feel like susan, my wife, gets very upset when i am too tough on mika. so i feel like -- i'm going to preempt the susan e-mail and apologize. i'm sure your husband probably didn't appreciate me going after you and saying you must be too tough on your kids. i'm sure he's on your side, too. >> actually my husband just e-mailed me. >> did he? >> you've got to stop the anti-smoking campaign for soldiers. you sound like an idiot. getting it from home as well. unbelievable. >> i get it from home as well. >> don't cry. coming up next -- >> he's seen you abuse alcohol for years. >> that was the second part of the e-mail. coming up next, secretary of state hillary clinton back in the foreign policy spotlight. we'll talk about it with nbc

chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. also, talk about that with the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass.

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no doubt we lost some ground in recent years but the damage is temporary like my elbow getting better every day. >> now she had to have surgery. she's been out of the spotlight for that in some ways. >> looking great, isn't she? >> looking fabulous. >> not to be shallow but that's what i do. to the state department. nbc news chief foreign affairs a correspondent and host of msnbc reports. andrea mitchell also in the studio with us. the president of the council on foreign relations richard haass, the author of the great book "war of necessity, war of choice: a memoir of two iraq wars" which garnered a good review from your father, mika. >> it did. richard introduced secretary of state hillary clinton before she gave a major speech on the obama administration's grand strategy on foreign affairs and she was

really stepping out into the spotlight for the first time in a long time, some say, although i don't think it's been that long. richard, how did she do? >> she made the important intellectual point that we don't have to like people in order to talk to them, i.e., iran. we don't have to agree with people on everything in order to work with them on some things. it was a real repudiation of the bush you're with us or against us foreign policy so that was the intellectual part of the speech. the other part was political. to put herself back on the radar screen and then after six months to basically say i'm here, the state department's here, diplomacy is here rather than to have essentially a white house dominated foreign policy all the time. >> andrea mitchell, what was your reaction? >> well, i think that was -- richard has it right. that was the goal. she sent a very clear signal to iran. that's important to signal that the president had already spent. the overture is still on the table despite our harsh criticism understandably of the repression that's taking place in iran but she leaves today for

india. it's a very important trip but it's her first trip in more than a month. she had the surgery. she's had painful rehabilitation and that should not be underestimated but there has been a perception in some quarters she has been overshadowed by the president and it's normal, it's natural that the president with these big trips, gth-8, the trip to russia, to ghana, would overshadow the secretary of state. but because of their past r rivalry in the primaries, their past political contest, anything that she's a shift one way or the other is going to be exaggerated in the eyes of some observers. she fueled it herself. >> richard, i remember a similar story in 2001 when you were in the white house. colin powell about six or seven months in, i believe. "time" magazine and the suggestion was that he wasn't as center on foreign policy as he had expected. >> colin powell had a particular

problem, he was in some ways the odd man out in the previous administration. she has the legacy, if you will, of political rivalry and it's one thing to talk about a team of rivals. it's another to make it work. there's something more structural or historical. the secretary of state has diplomatic instruments or tools to bring to bear. then you have the secretary of defense with the military tools. you have the economic crisis which means tim geithner and larry summers are front and center. plus, you have a president who is active, a vice president who is active. it's crowded. so for the secretary of state to have the kind of prominence we associate with secretary of states is probably increasingly unlikely. >> tina brown wrote she needs to take her burqa off. i haven't gotten the impression -- has anybody gotten the impression she's been put on the back burner? >> no, i was under the impression she had an injury and had surgery. >> i was thinking the other day i wonder if she would have been better off not joining this administration and then trying

to run in four years. i don't know if that would have been the case for hillary. i know you're nodding your head. you wonder. >> no, not yet. >> i think she has been overshadowed. >> mike, do you think she's been overshadowed? >> inevitably any secretary of state is going to be overshadowed by this president at this point in time given where he's come from. there's an interesting back story in the relationship between the secretary of state hillary clinton, the vice president of the united states, joe biden, who fancies himself and is a important policy expert, and the white house. that triumvirate is interesting. >> this is a time of crisis given the economy and what's going on in the world. things gravitate to the white house. the president is going to want to be involved in things that will have such an impact on the presidency and his administration so, again, the idea the secretary of state is not at the center of everything should not come as any surprise.

>> and, again, i think if you're grading her on her job, i think she's done a very good job on the international stage. wouldn't you give her a positive grade for what she's done? >> the administration is off to a good start in terms of introducing the sense of a willing noz to try negotiations, to try diplomacy. to say it may work. if it doesn't work, we've checked the box, shown we've tried it and then we can turn to some sort of escalation. she's trying to carve out a niche. others are doing the specific negotiations. mit mitchell has the middle east. what she's trying to do is focus on major power relations. that's why she's off to india. she wants to be the one doing the consultations because this is the backdrop for the day-to-day diplomacy and that's a smart role for secretary of state. it may not appear to be that sexy but it's a really important role for secretary of state. >> and you know, mika, they are showing an openness, a willingness to talk to cub tries with whom they disagree but it's grounded in realism. >> yeah.

an interesting diversion because she didn't agree with him on major issues. >> she's doing her job, following the administration. >> shades the bush 41, bush the father rather than bush the son. >> stay with us, if you will. we lost andrea's shot, by the way. >> i thought you were just being rude. >> no, no, no. it was technical. no. what is wrong with you? andrea mitchell? >> she proudly supports the troops, too. we have david ignatius coming up, mika. >> up next, yes, we do. brilliant man. congressman peter hoekstra, why he's concerned new legislation could mean the end of private health care. imodium multi-symptom relief

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we can't kick the can down the road. reforming reform is no longer the status quo. those who oppose our efforts should take a hard look at just what it is that they're defending. >> and, by the way, the president use that had analogy earlier this year -- well, actually right before he got inaugurated talking about social security and medicare reform and then on social security they kicked the can down the road because nancy pelosi doesn't want to take it out. >> the only time to do it would be now. >> not only now. i want to do it in the next 15 seconds. >> let's do it before the next

commercial break. i'm just saying politically. >> politically they have to do it right now where the world will blow up. the senate health committee approved legislation that would create a government plan, government-run health care program to compete directly with private insurers. peter hoekstra from michigan says that would mean the end of private health care as we know it. he joins us now. great to see you again. my only question would be how do you know what this bill would do because it seems like it's shaping up like cap and trade and the stimulus package where it's being shoved down our throats before we have a chance to figure out what the impact is. >> well, joe, i found it very ironic that yesterday when we started debating this in the education and workforce committee, a committee that you and i served on a number of years ago, when you and i were

on the committee there was this major debate about whether we would have a federally run student loan program or whether it would be a private sector loan program for students. and the decision was made that we would have a private sector loan program but we would also have a government program to kind of keep the private sector honest. yesterday george miller, the chairman of the committee, introduced the president's legislation on student loans which said we're going to get rid of the private sector. it's gone. we're going to run this all through the government sector. that's exactly the strawman they're setting up now for health care. we're going to put a government plan out there. we're going to keep the insurance companies honest, fully intending that in 5, 10, 15 years the private sector plan will be gone. >> so you think this is the end of private health care? >> yeah. i mean, we've known for years that we were going to reach this fork in the road where we were

going to either reform health care, we were going to provide more options to individuals, more affordable options for individuals to choose their health care or we were going to create a government-run health care where the government would be making those decisions for us. president obama, the democrats and the house and the senate, have clearly chosen the government-run option. that is why they're in such a hurry to move this program through the house, through the senate, get it to his desk maybe even this month. i don't think -- we'll get it through maybe the house. not to his desk but through the house and senate this month. >> we have a he said/she said in the intelligence committee regarding this program to assassinate leaders of al qaeda. a great article in "the washington post" this morning laying it all out where they say it wasn't really a program that had to be briefed before congress. others disagree. tell us what went on in there and what this is all about.

>> well, number one, it is shocking to me that in the aftermath of 9/11 we would have a program in place or even be considered that would think about considering killing al qaeda leadership and disrupting their organization. >> it's barbaric. it's barbaric. >> i can't believe that we would expect our intelligence community or defense department -- >> what does that say about who we are? terrorists have feels, too, don't they, mika? >> this is a real question we have to ask some of our colleagues. wouldn't you have wanted our intelligence community and our defense department to consider a wide range of activities and programs to decapitate al qaeda and now that you find out that they were maybe doing those kinds of things you are shocked and outraged? >> peter, i have to cut you off there, though. hold on, mika. the important word is considered.

this was considered. it was never done. it never went operational. it wasn't even a program, an investigation into the program was put aside in 2004. what's going on here? we've got people screaming this was a huge program. dick durbin called it a massive program that's been going on for eight years. it's just not the truth. >> it's not the truth. joe, the way i describe it is congress was never briefed on a program that never happened. >> yeah. >> what's the reason for the outrage. >> i've heard that, too. mike barnicle? >> congressman, we're all familiar with, as joe said, the he said/she said over the cia program. let me ask you if there were a separate program of kill teams being run out of the pentagon, from vice president cheney's office to secretary rumsfeld's office, would there be an obligation to report the existence of such kill teams to

congress? >> i believe absolutely that type of activity if it existed should be reported to the appropriate committee, either to the intelligence committee or to the armed services committee. there is a requirement for transparency with congress on these types of issues. i don't think there's any disagreement among people in the white house and congress that those types of programs cannot be withheld from congress. >> richard haass, chime in on th this. >> and the procedural argument is secondary. the real thing is should we be doing this? the answer is yes. why is it better to simply launch drones into pakistan or afghanistan? we should be using whatever means we can to stop terrorists before they succeed against us. put aside the inside the beltway procedural questions. i don't understand why we have discontinued this. the real question is why aren't we doing more of this? >> and you know, richard, that is such a fascinating point you

bring up because people that i know at the agency from my time in congress, i started asking why aren't we doing all of these drones now? it's simple. if we send teams in and risk soldiers and marines' lives and they kick down doors and we drag these people back and then we interrogate them, we are evil. if we knock down the doors and shoot them in the head or if we just blow up 15 people to kill them, we're heroes. we're setting up the wrong sort of incentives. >> these so-called assassin teams would stop random drone attacks that might kill an al qaeda leader and kill 15 members of his family. >> sometimes a drone attack may be the best way to do it. sometimes it may be through a discreet team. these are tactical. the answer is we should be doing whatever makes the most sense in a particular tactical situation. >> that was leon panetta's

decision. >> exactly. congressman hoekstra, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> thanks, peter. great seeing you again. we'll talk to you on the radio. >> that's coming up. richard, thank you. and coming up in a few minutes "the washington post's" david ignatius, his latest op-ed calls the cia a political football. he'll explain that. but first, "morning joe" has an exclusive look at the cover of "time" magazine with managing editor. ♪ mom: i can't go to class with him. mom vo: i can't do his history report for him. mom vo: or show the teachers how curious he is. that's his job. mom vo: my job is to give him everything he needs to succeed, while staying within a budget. mom: that's why i go to walmart. son: and that's how the constitution helped shape america... mom: i love my job. vo: find all the brands those other stores have but for low walmart prices, like dell, hp and toshiba. vo: save money. live better. walmart.

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with us now, managing editor for "time" magazine, rick stengel, here to unveil the latest issue of "time" magazine. i hope my father's watching. i was 5 years old. they woke me up and i remember it, it was one of the first big memories of my life. >> in fact, one of the things that -- we'll give it away in a second. one of the astronauts who was on the apollo 11 expe tigs said people for the rest his life cornered him and said, you know where i was when i saw you guys walking on the moon? it is an amazing desire people have to tell him. the cover is the 40th anniversary of the moon landing. >> i was talking about michael jackson. the first time i saw him was on abc. >> we almost intercepted michael jackson in the moon landing by

doing the cover line "moon walker." >> that's very good. >> let's show that cover. for a generation of americans, it will really, really take them back. can you guys give us a full screen. >> by the way, that is a picture of buzz aldrin taken by neil armstrong. aldrin didn't take a picture of neil armstrong on the moon. there are no pictures of neil armstrong on the moon. >> you know what's stunning, we did that, kennedy said we can send a man to the moon by the end of the decade and we did that during the most tumultuous decade, a decade of radicalism in the street, college campuses burning, cities burning, americans questioning their place in the world. and that decade ended with this remarkable achievement that brought us all together. >> and it was a cap stone in a way.

i think what kennedy understood is the symbolism of something like that is so important to a nation and it was -- remember, it was all a reaction, in part, to sputnik, so the soviets launching sp ining sputnik and thought, oh, my god, i can't believe these folks are ahead of us when we're supposed to be the technologically superior nation. the cover is by our science editor who wrote ""apollo 13." "he's been covering these guys from the very beginning. it is a personal story about what happens to a guy, these 24 men who went to the moon when the greatest achievement of your life happens when you're in your 20s or 30s, then all the rest of your life, all anybody wants to talk about is what was it like to be on the moon. a lot of them have really struggled. a number of them have been very, very successful. from an actuarial standpoint, a lot more of them are living than men of that generation. they were chosen very well, but they were chosen -- the reason that they weren't lyrical about their experience is because they were chosen.

they were fighter points, men of science, not men of poetry. >> neil armstrong, always a reluctant hero. >> right. >> quiet. moved back to ohio. right? >> that's right. he hasn't been a recluse exactly, but he isn't out there like the other guys. >> no. i would be -- gosh. i'd be signing autographs, pictures, for years. neil armstrong, what a hero, but again he had such dignity in the way he handled himself following that. >> he really has. >> have you no idea who neil armstrong is. >> i'm laughing at the word -- the cia story. we'll talk about that. this monday make sure to watch astronauts buzz aldrin on "morning joe" for the 40th anniversary of apollo 11's landing on the moon. coming up next, "the washington post's" david ignatius. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

welcome back to "morning joe." great to have you here. let's take a shot of los angeles, lax, some of the pretiest see meant in the world. let's go up to san francisco. not quite so beautiful yet but city by the bay, incredible. las vegas, willie's hometown.

beautiful sunrise there. chris goes to vegas an awful lot. there's washington, d.c. a very non-descript shot of the capitol. nice shot of the white house. then on to new york. it is spring in new york. finally in the middle of july. >> a wonderful place to have a free paul mccartney concert. >> we walked out yesterday of a meeting and paul mccartney playing -- >> right there. >> -- on the streets of new york. above the marquee. >> it was cool. >> thousands of people in the street. voice sounded great. he looked great. >> what was the occasion? >> he was playing for david letterman. letterman taped it and mccartney played some songs off the "white" album. songs that i'd never heard played before, like "helter skelter." people were all over the

streets. played "let me roll" from "band on the run." a song i haven't heard him play since 1976 live. >> you know what? you got to love new york seriously. you walk outside, and just happen upon a paul mccartney concert in the streets. everyone was so excited. it was a beautiful evening. >> certainly worth the trip. in february 1964 the beatles came and took over america. just like that. we've got david ignatius straight ahead talking about the cia. rick stengel's here. he's actually got an article in the new "time" magazine talking about how this cia dust-up is much to do about nothing. confirmation hearings for supreme court nominee sonia sotomayor expected to wrap up today.

>> thank god! >> now stop. in yesterday's questioning, the 55-year-old size-stepped questions on abortion rights an the second amendment saying that if confirmed, she'll likely face issues on the bench. this morning's "washington post" is revealing new details about the cia's now-canceled program to develop its plots to kill al qaeda leaders overseas. cia director leon panetta canceled the program after it entered what officials call a "somewhat more operational phase." include be a new agency proposal to train teams of assassins. in california, any prospect of quickly closing the state's $26 billion budget deficit continues to dim. negotiations between lawmakers and governor schwarzenegger broke down last night over disagreements in education funding and cuts to social services. the state is already issuing ious to cover some of its bills and some major banks are rejecting them. america, meet your future. her name -- california. with us now, let's give the associate editor and columnist

from "the washington post" david ignatius, also the author of the best-selling new book, "the increment." in his new column david writes about the potential impact of a new round of cia investigations. what's he say? >> "as other countries watch the united states lass rate its intelligence service for activities already investigated or never undertaken, place they admire america's commitment to democracy and the rule of law. more likely, i fear, they conclude that we are just plain nuts. oversight of these secret activities is necessary but turning the cia into a political football as both republicans and democrats have done in recent years defeats the purpose of oversight." >> david, thank you so much for being with us. this situation gets even more depressing. you wrote about the political gamesmanship a couple of months ago with nancy pelosi's back-and-forth with the agency. seems like matters keep getting worse and worse.

yeah, overseas they are going to look at us as nuts but what about the young men and women coming into the cia? what chances are they going to take in the future with their careers? my god, their legal status. >> joe, you put your finger on the point that should worry americans the most. when people get beat up the way our cia officers have been -- i want to stress, they get beat up from the left and from the right. the republicans have given them as hard a time as speaker pelosi -- over time, it has an effect. people begin to steer away from the tough, controversial assignment. there is phrase that the agency calls "slow rolling" where you send in the cables, yes, sir, i'm right on that but you don't really go full speed because you just know that this is going to end up being politically controversial. i know of cia officers who were asked to participate in the interrogation program who had worries that this would end up, the winds would change and this would end up being controversial. they did it anyway because they

were told this is legal, here's a justice department telling us to do it. they did it. and guess what? they end up having their careers destroyed. these guys are now desperately looking for lawyers. they don't have the money to pay their legal bills. they basically feel their careers are over. it is not a good situation. least of all for us, the citizens, who need a good, strong intelligence agency that feels confident. >> daviding with from my time in congress working with the armed services committee dealing with the cia, i know some guys involved in the interrogation program, too, and these are just -- this is what americans don't understand -- these are middle-class guys. they don't get paid a hell of a lot of money. they got kids. they've got families. they were told by the president, the vice president, the justice department, the attorney general, they were told by everybody -- by congress, the house, the senate -- everybody -- that this was legal, what they did. now they are scrambling to get attorneys because they're afraid they may go to jail. because eric holder is talking

about possible independent counsels. again, forget about them for a second. what does this do to the next generation of agents? >> well, it tells them don't take on these assignments where the political winds could change and what you're told today is legal and appropriate and necessary will be judged to be criminal in the future. i mean i wrote it this morning, pretty direct. this is just plain nuts. one really scary part of this is that as foreign countries look at what's going on in the united states -- this is not a new phenomenon -- they get more and more reluctant about sharing their most precious secrets, anything where the risk of exposure to you as a foreign government is enormous, you're going to think twice. you're going to think ten times about sharing with the united states, because we're just not very good at keeping these things quiet. that's a precondition for running the central intelligence service. >> a perfect example of that is,

when we get countries in central and eastern europe to do a lot of our heavy lifting, and then reporters revealed their identities, risked the stability of their government, and what did we do? we awarded them with pulitzer prizes. are we mature enough to survive? >> some of those pulitzer prize winners are my pals. i don't want to beat up on the press. i mean, look. this is an adversary system. the point is that the agency needs the ability to keep its secrets and these secrets come out, often because of congressional pressure to expose a flap or whatever. but you do have to look at the situation we're in now. where panetta's trying to put the agency back together in a new way and worry that it ain't going to happen and we're all going to end up being less safe because of it. >> okay. while i sympathize with what

both you, david, and joe are saying, and agree, rick stengel, i know your magazine is covering this as well. is this about the middle-class guys who are executing the job? or is this about the people putting forward the -- what they shall execute, putting forward the plans, and following the principles of the system? >> we have a very, very practical take on it by our intelligence correspondent who was a field officer in the cia in the middle east. he basically said he's been talking to his colleagues. he said this was less of a program than just a power point presentation, that there were no missions twlb was no training, it hadn't been executed. he said, look -- what the cia does -- it's called contingency planning. they make all kinds of plans for possible operations that may never exist but we expect them to do that. we want them to do that. that's all this was, according to him, was a contingency plan. i don't know if that's something that david agrees with, but certainly bob says, what

happened to the cia in the '70s with church committees investigating them, it really put the cia behind the 8-ball for a very long time. what could happen again now is what joe's talking about, it could be the same thing. it could be the unraveling of the intelligence community all together. >> some would argue, joe, that some people are doing this to restore political reputation. >> i was going to say, let's just lay it out there, david ignatius. before nancy pelosi called the cia liars, she had a 52% approval rating. it's off to a 34% approval rating after the stumbling, bumbling press conferences. cia ratings jumped up into the 60s. this is certainly looking like a political attack on an agency that's already faced enough withering attacks over the past decade. >> i'm glad if attacking the cia is backfiring. the program that rick was just talking about, which is separate

from this interrogation issue, we were creating a capability to assassinate al qaeda operatives in friendly countries. i mean basically this was what the israelis did after the munich massacre of their athletes in 1972. we were going to go after people and take them down. the danger with this is they're operating in friendly countries without telling the host country. it is the huge potential for embarrassment. so the program was never actually launched. it was discussed, there was back-and-forth. panetta comes in and the counterterrorism center, as i understand it -- i'm sure rick's reporting is detailed on this -- says mr. director, we think there is a good idea, maybe it is time to go forward. panetta says, wow, this doesn't sound like a good idea to me. and more to the point, i really should tell congress. i would like to have a better relationship with congress. he goes up to the hill and tells them about it. and what happens? there are people on the house intelligence committee that say, ah-ha! this shows speaker pelosi was right, the cia's been lying, and try to use it as a new club to

beat people over the head, and that's really wrong. panetta was trying to level with them and what does he get for it? that's a small example of how nutty this has gotten. >> mike barnacle, again, moving forward, what cia director is going to say i'm going to bend over in good faith to talk to people on the hill, if they're going to act as irresponsibly as some would suggest they did. >> probably none. david, i would like to ask you, transparency is a wonderful word. everybody uses it today with regard to government programs, with regard to everything in life. but what has the aspect of transparency done to our ability to conduct operations, intelligence operations, with kill teams and whatever, overseas, whether it's out of the defense department or whether it is out of the central intelligence agency? what has this lust for transparency done to our ability to navigate these treacherous waters? >> it hasn't helped. in this area, i think you need

to distinguish between accountability, which is important. these are secret bureaucracies. let's be honest -- the worst qualities of bureaucracy get even worse when it is in secret. you need accountability. but the transparency opens this up and opens the vulnerabilities. i really do feel that cia officers today are looking over their shoulder to see what the lawyer tells them. and you can't run an intelligence agency if you've got a lawyer riding on the back of every darn officer. so i think that's the concern. >> david, what is -- what's the morale like at the agency right now? you've got the president of the united states going over a couple of months ago saying, we're not really proud of what you did and we're sure you're not proud of what you did over the past eight years, when in fact all they did is what they were told to do by the justice department and everybody else. now we've got this.

how bad is morale at the cia right now? >> i asked this of some of my friends and sources over the past several days, and the answers i got were -- "horrible," "catastrophic," "it is like a car bomb exploded in the driveway." if you ask the officials, cia types, they'll say, morale's good, our officers are out there punching forward 24 hours a day. people just feel badly used. what's really scary is that more and more of the people who really know stuff, who speak the hard languages -- who have had many tours in tough places have said, "i've had it." "i'm retiring." "i'm just not going to expose my f family to this anymore" and we just don't have people to replace them. how many people do we have that can speak farsi like a native and get inside iran? it takes years, decades. those are the people who are walking out the door. >> they've been undermined.

>> my god, i know so many of those stories. people are saying, "enough! i don't have to do this. enough." we're losing our best people. >> very few people know, how to follow someone to cry row, a top leader of al qaeda and having to call before somebody snats the top leader of al qaeda. >> i'll give you an even scarier example that was cited for me recently. short of shooting the guy in cairo, better would be to capture him and turn him upside down, get his cell phone, get the sim card, get all the contacts he's had in the last six months. wow! that would be a gold mine. i know an example of where that happened, a take-down like that happened and people were so nervous about being accused of doing something wrong in handling or interrogating this guy in the first several hours

that they immediately turned him over and this crucial window of opportunity where you get his stuff exploited in a hurry was lost. again, that ought to really annoy people. we need this stuff pretty badly. you can't have that. >> whoa. that's unbelievable. of course, people that understand this will tell you that there's a shock from being arrested and that is the critical time, to get them, pull them in, get the information and now we can't do that because our guys and women are -- >> david ignatius, thank you. >> rick, this story in "time" really lays bare the situation. >> it does indeed. the field officer, bob baer, talks about how he had a targets in his sights in the '80s, in the middle east, and really had to call back to langley to see if he had permission. what they can do is if they capture them, they can't kill

them. that's partially as a result of the church committee and regulations against assassinations. >> the cover of "time" magazine, "moonstruck." david's book of course is "the increment." rick stengel and david ignatius, thank you very much. more on the cia flap with congresswoman jane harman. and later -- the hurt locker. you're watching "morning joe brewed by starbucks." 4m4m

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show called "the stengel kids." they were hanging from the catwalk, but we got them under control -- just for about ten seconds. rick, boys, have a good summer. welcome back to "morning joe." aren't they adorable? >> they are great. >> one of them has a mccartney haircut from '74. you know who else is adorable? jane harman. i'm not going to do that. she is a great friend though. i'm going to tell a story about jane harman. i had some real problems with newt gingrich, but when newt gingrich said good-bye to the house, there were a lot of people that sat on their hands. jane harman who disagreed with newt gingrich and probably liked him in some ways even less than myself, stood up, alone on the democratic side of the house floor, and gave him a standing ovation to thank him for his

service. that was a class act that i'll never forget. >> very classy. >> i miss you more, joe. >> well good to see you, jane. this is a perfect time to have you here. we just had david ignatius on, also bob baer wrote an article for "time" magazine. a lot of questions being raised about the cia getting hammered the way they've been hammered. not just by democrats but also by republicans. do you share the concerns of david ignatius that we're going to create a generation of risk-averse cia agents? >> i always worry about that, and i do worry, as you said, joe, in an earlier segment about the agent in the field somewhere in an austere location away from his family, looking at washington and thinking that we're crazy. on the other hand, i have never played gotcha politics. you know that. and i pride myself on being bipartisan. i think we went dreadfully wrong

during the bush years in the sense that the vice president and, john, you with the justice department and a few other people, cut into the way they were structuring programs were disdainful of congress, both republicans and democrats, and developed theories outside the law that congress had passed, and outside the constitution, and that scares me a lot. and it is now time to return to the rule of law, make the laws very clear and, as michael hayden used to say, the former cia director and national security administration director, we want to get chalk on their cleats. if the law is clear, then these agents will know how to get up to the limits of the law and they'll be empowered to do more. that's what i want them to do, is to do more consistent with our law and our constitution. >> is there something about the culture of the bush administration that you think fed into this, and should there be an investigation? >> yes and yes. i think the bush administration

basically believed -- i sympathize to some extent because i know the threats against us were, and are, dangerous -- that we are "at war." this is a war on terror. "terror" of course is a tactic. it's not a place, it's not a group of people. that justified them using the president's article 2 commander in chief authorities to ignore congress and the constitution. that is the part that i break company with. it was those decisions outside of congress. we asked, you know. we asked them, do you need changes in the law? they said, oh, no, we're fine. then of course we learned, especially last friday in this damaging report by five inspectors general that congress asked for, that only a few people developed legal theories and they were obviously never briefed to congress, but they were never even briefed to most people in the justice department. i think this is a really dangerous time and i think we

have to get a handle on it. and i do think that the congressional committees on bipartisan basis should conduct sober and serious investigations into when congress needs to be consulted and what the right rules are going forward. >> maria bartiromo. >> but the issue of transparency, i mean should everything be transparent on this level? the other idea is, we've got something you know a lot more about this than i do, but we've got so many issues that we are wrangling with right now as a country, whether it be this economy, the loss of nearly 10 million jobs and you've got the financial system, we're spending a lot of energy, time an money on this, which actually ends up undermining the cia. >> well, i don't want to undermine the cia. >> well that's exactly -- >> i don't want to undermine the intelligence community. by the way, we reformed the way the communities operates in 2004. i was one of the authors of that. we now have a joint command headed by dennis blair over 16 agencies, one of which is the

cia. only one of which. lots of other agencies are contributors, too. >> should nancy pelosi have handled this differently? >> well, i don't know what "this" is, but right now my understanding is that the house and senate intelligence committees are making decisions about whether they'll investigate in the scope of their investigations, and that's who should be making the decisions. and i read a statement of nancy pelosi's that said "they shouth make the decision, not she. >> some of her closest allies are the ones that leaked the information from this classified briefing from panetta. >> well, i don't know who leaked it. i'm no longer on the committee, as you know, joe, so i didn't get that briefing. i don't know that the details of that briefing have ever leaked. they've been in the newspaper but i don't know that they came from the hill. at any rate, my point is, transparency's not the right word. accountability is the right word. when the intelligence committee

was formed in the '70s, i was working in the carter white house with mika's father. >> that had to be fun. >> well, he's fun. he is a lot of fun. >> i know. i love him. >> there you go. >> i know he's on this show all the time. >> thank you very much for pointing out that he has a wicked sense of humor. very funny. >> but here's the point. they were formed in response to abuses by the nixon administration and the idea is that the intelligence community is overseen by congress. there are clear lines there that should be observed, and the courts. and you need individualized warrants if you're going to wiretap somebody under the foreign intelligence surveillance act. the bush administration blew that off. >> all right, hey, jane, thank you so much for being with us. we got to go to break but i really appreciate it. good seeing you again. >> thank you very much. >> this is going to be a fascinating debate as we move

forward. >> it really is. >> we're talking with david ignatius, on the radio, his column "kicking the cia again," he says the latest" scandals" involving the cia are genuinely hard to understand other than in terms of political payback. he says foreign countries are going to think we're "nuts." >> i think that's fair. will wall street's rally continue for a fourth day? what is he doing? weekly jobless numbers are coming out in a few minutes. latest with cnbc's mark haines when we come back. imodium multi-symptom relief combines two powerful medicines for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms,

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hypocratic. i think he has something in his pocket. >> let's get a check on business before the bell with cnbc's mark haines. he's live at the new york stock exchange. mark, is everything all right? >> everything is just peachy. >> oh, good. >> back to you. >> you looked like you were fiddling a little bit during the break. >> what's in the pocket? >> what's in what pocket?

>> probably some cheetohs. >> this is the strangest program on television. >> it really is. you're just figuring that out? >> it's taken you a while. >> hey, mark haines, jpmorgan turned a big profit. huh? >> jpmorgan turned a big profit, too. back to you. >> wow! >> maria, will you take this away, please? >> things have been better than expected across the board. there was some intel, jpmorgan doing much better than expected. looks like we have some real momentum in the market. >> what about jobless claims? >> that's right. back to you. >> what about jobless claims? >> why am i here? maria's doing all my stuff. >> i said one thing. >> jpmorgan chase, as maria just told you about was good news. then we had the jobless claims which maria just told you about. that was good news. >> i didn't say anything about

cit. >> yeah, you leave the bad news to me! we have a major lender to small businesses teetering on the brink of going out of business, and that's the one she leaves me. i tell you within don't get no respect. listen, about these jobless claims, not to rain on the parade, but it is largely due to technical factor and the labor department economists who gather this data are themselves saying it is probably skewed and shouldn't be given too much weight. the reason being that at this time of year -- it's an irony, isn't it? they anticipate layoffs in the auto industry. gee, i wonder why that would happen. nyway, they try to anticipate that and they adjust the numbers and so anyway, that's causing them some difficulties. they're saying, come back in two weeks and that's when we'll have a real number for you.

and the market understands that. there was a little bit of a pop in the futures. why are they playing that music? but now we're back down to where we were before the number came out. still slightly positive. markets in pretty good shape for now, for today. all last week it was there's no recovery, there's no recovery. now this week it's, hey, there's a recovery! hey, there's a recovery! i don't know what they need. >> there a something about a stronger stock market that makes people really feel better. that's what we were seeing here. >> everybody but mark. >> mark, nice recovery. stumbled early and gave us a fine report. we appreciate it. >> i hope you find what you were looking for in that pocket. >> it was nice seeing you folks. you're going to want to watch this segment.

a survival guide for conservatives. author harry stein coming on the show next with the book, "i can't believe i'm sitting next to a republican." don't miss it. we'll be right back.

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do you know people or do you have friends supporting john mccain who live on the upper west side? >> no. because if i did know people -- well, they wouldn't be my friends. >> i don't like mccain. he stands for everything i'm against. i'm absolutely for obama. >> really? >> yeah. >> do you know anyone around here who likes mccain? >> no. i don't know anyone here who likes mccain. >> do have you any friends we could track down? >> no, i don't have anyone. >> you don't like mccain? >> no. i hate you more. >> you hate me? >> palin. not you. i don't "hate" you but i wish you'd change your politics.

>> that's not very nice. >> brings back fond memories. great, willie! >> the author of a new book, "i can't believe i'm sitting next to a republican," harry stein. he writes, "obama may be our worst nightmare. a front man for every speech keeps okay noxious left-wing activism going. but at least he generally makes open-minded noises. in manhattan offices, the chosen one's acolytes often don't even bother pretending to be civil toward those on the other side." this woman resembles mika brzezinski. >> yet you are so much more reasonable than she is. >> mike, you know this happens. in fact, a very famous agent told you a couple of weeks ago

that, this person ain't at all republican, except me. >> exactly. harry, i asked you where the title came from? >> i was searching for a title for the book. i live in the hastings on hutchins. that little left-leaning artistic town. it was during the primary campaign between hillary and obama. of course everyone was singing the praises of obama. i very tentatively -- because i'm not a troublemaker -- brought up the question of obama's inexperience. the guy next to me who normally is literally all -- turned as if i was wearing a nazi armband and a hood and he engineered, "i can't believe i'm sitting next to a republican." not even accurate because i'm still a registered democrat. i came over from the left. but so i -- a crummy dinner

party but i got a title out of it. >> yes, you did! my goodness. >> people gasp on airplanes when i told them i was republicans. gasped! >> in places like this, there is a real kind of air of incomprehension. i've been at parties where people kind of look at you, they're confused because you don't sit -- they're stereotype. you're not knuckle-dragging and you seem like one of them almost, and they get confused and bewildered if they're not angry. those are the two reactions you get. >> it happens a lot with me when people query me about joe. because he will say something during the morning, and someone later in the day will say, you know, how can he be a republican? what he said today was pretty sensible. does that happen to you? >> no. i mean, look. i did a book eight or ten years ago called "how i accidentally joined the vast right wing conspiracy and found peace."

certainly in my community i'm out. what more often happens to me is i will have what i think sf a very pleasant conversation with some people on the street or in the supermarket, then turn around and see a couple of people whispering in my wake. you see a lot of that. >> i did that piece the friday before election day, the big criticism was, if you went to the deep south with an obama t-shirt on you'd get yelled at, too. you think it comes from both sides? that this is a fair experiment you've done? >> i think to a certain degree that's true but i must say i think people are more civil on the right. that has been my experience, having come from the left. i was really astonished by the vitriol when one tries -- there are certain lines you simply cannot cross. talk about abortion, if you're on the wrong side of the abortion issue as far as people on the left are concerned, particularly women, i mean they don't just think you're wrong, they hate you. >> on that issue, that's i

think -- that's very difficult. >> as far as civility goes, i would say personal interactions, i haven't seen conservatives attacking liberals as much -- obviously in the media and the right wing media there's some pretty hateful things. but you know, you talk about self-righteousness. there are some people in the far left that i compare to televangelists. you are either of our view or you are evil. it is not that we disagree on the issue but it is that you are evil. unfortunately for me, it's tough, but most of my friends in congress and in the media are liberals. and i'm sort of -- i've been a musician, i've hung around people on the left my entire life. i was sitting around the table and all these democrats at the table were talking about how evil republicans were and how evil conservatives were. and i sat there and i said, i'm a conservative. i'm here. they said, oh, you don't believe

any of it! i asked them, i started really digging. i said, do you really believe that republicans are evil? i got a "yes." >> they really do. >> i got a "yes." i just started laughing. look, the difference is the real haters on the right ten to be on the fringe. on the left, they're writing columns for "the new york times." it really is shocking. some of the stuff you see in the mainstream press is really just frightening. and one of the things i have in the book is how hard it is to find romance if you're a conservative -- >> you see that final show on "curb your enthusiasm" a couple years ago? larry david was about to get his birthday present and as he was starting to make out with a woman -- there's a picture of

george bush. it killed me. "i can't do it." >> there's a story like that in the book. if you're a guy, one lived in chicago, he said his strategy was never to mention his politics. it was always a deal breaker. he's dating this woman, they're getting along great, they've gone on four or five dates. she finally comes over to his house and he had been a bush campaign worker. there's a picture of bush on his wall. >> oh, no! >> she says -- >> mood kill. >> she says what is that? he said i don't know who that man is or how that got here. >> that's a great answer. irony-based. >> i just have to say, i want to underline this. what i found is, again, the media, left and right, a lot of anger, a lot of hatred out there. this is really more the social interactions is what stunned me in the past. >> fascinating. did you agree with some of this -- >> i do. i also think there are some key things that are happening out there that play into it. key figures.

the book is called "i can't believe i'm sitting next to a republican." i can't believe it! when we come back, we're going to talk with a screen writer for "the hurt locker," a new movie about the ongoing war in iraq that's getting a lot of buzz. we'll be right back. undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather

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i'm going back. >> 25 meters. roger that. >> 2:00! dude has a phone! >> come on, guys. talk to me. >> drop the phone! come on [ bleep ] the phone! >> i can't get a shot! >> folks, that's just the first scene of the movie. that was a clip from "the hurt locker," a new film that got a lot of people talking. with us now, the film's screen writer and with us, toure, mark, i still haven't recovered. you never broke the tension for two straight hours. tell us about the movie. >> well, thank you. it's not a training video. it is not a documentary but what we tried to do is capture the

conflict as it stood in 2004 from the perspective of the bomb squad. as you know, the bomb squad has probably one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. we try to give the audience a sense of what they go through on a day-to-day basis. >> mark, a lot of people are calling this the best iraq war movie that we've had yet. certainly up there with "jar head" and whatever else other people are enjoying. this is sort after hollywood graveyard subject. nobody comes out alive. nobody's making commercially successful films about the iraq war right now. why go in to this now? >> well, i think there's always a market for a good war movie and the tradition of a "blackhawk down" or "saving private ryan." we took our shot and so far have been blessed with great reviews and good audience response. so knock on wood that that continues. >> hark, a lot of times you write a screen play, anybody

writes a screen play, it's gone out of your hands and it's out of your control when it goes up on the screen. tell me about your relationship with the director in maintaining throughout this film the constant sense of tension and fear that does exist in real time in war. how did the two of you manage to do that? >> well, i was lucky. we had a very collaborative relationship and i was able to be on set. i think katherine bigelow did a great job. you don't have to put too much gloss on it because it is just inherently intense and stressful situation when you talk about guys who have one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, diffusing bombs for a living. i think it is to be said that we could capture the reality of that, i think that puts audiences really in their shoes. >> mark, at times -- you said it wasn't a documentary but at times it sure felt that way. sort of bone-rattling,

recreating these explosions. tell us how you shot the movie. >> well, it was shot in jordan, actually, which as you know, is a neighbor of iraq. so we had the benefit of being close to the actual war zone in terms of the landscape looking similar and architecture looking similar. i think that lends something to be youauthenticity feeling are talking about. >> it is a great film, being called one of the best, perhaps the best iraq film we've had yet. populations. "the hurt locker" is out in select cities. toure, thanks for being with us. when we come back, what, if anything, did we learn today? mom vo: i can't do his history report for him.

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