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and that's the way it is. monday, december 5th, 1977. this is walter cronkite, cbs news, good night. right now on msnbc, the passing of a legend. friends, colleagues and presidents past and present pay tribute to legendary newsman walter cronkite, who died last night at the age of 92. in washington, president obama makes a big push to write a new prescription for health care. but his biggest hurdle could be members of his own party. and he's back. paul mccartney returns to the big apple to kick off his farewell tour. good morning, everyone i'm chris jansing in for alex witt. welcome to msnbc saturday. first up this hour, the latest from washington. after an unscheduled statement on friday, president obama is taking on his critics this morning, urging congress to back his plan for health care reform in his weekly internet address. >> the same folks who control the white house and congress for the past eight years, as we ran up record deficits will argue, believe it or not, that health

reform will lead to record deficits. that's simply not true. >> nbc's live at the white house. mike, what's the status of this debate? where are we on this kate care reform package? >> chris, hardly a day goes by when the president doesn't make a statement in support of his health care initiative. but it is in serious political trouble. we are talking about potentially changing how every single american gets their health care coverage, how much they pay for that health care coverage, how businesses will have to pay into a fund if they don't provide employer-provided health care. right on down the line. this is major legislation. on the political side, the president, this is his signature issue. he's got so much riding on this. and now it is on very rocky shoals in the congress. new cost estimates from the congressional budget office, considered to be the arbiter of balls and strikes here, not colored by any partisanship at all, simply telling congress last night in a report that this will add to a deficit, this program, by $239 billion over

the course of the next year, and not only that, they said last thursday that the cost of health care in general, insurance plans, medicine, hospital stays right on down the line are going to continue to rise instead of slope downwards. that is the stated rationale for this entire exercise, chris. so the president very forcefully coming out yesterday, hinting it again today in his radio address, but there is very much on the line and it is very much up in the air. >> mike viqueira, thanks very much. here to weigh in on the health care reform debate, pat buchanan, and democratic strategist peter fenn. peter, let's hear your take on the health care bill. >> listen, i think this health care bill is essential. the question, of course, is what bill? i mean you've got a house bill, you've got a senate bill, you've got various committees working on it. the president is going to put his two cents into this. but the key right now is we have to do something not only about the 47 million people that are chronically uninsured, but the 7

million who have not had health insurance for some point in the last couple of years. we also have to bring these costs down. they're out of control. they are hurting america's families. so, you know, the cost part of this, i think, what's going to happen is they're starting to get these numbers pulled together. they're not all in yet. we're going to see a plan come out of there, and i think it's going to pass, and i thinks american people, you know, right now they are clamoring for it. they want a plan that works, and that's precisely where obama is going. >> pat, we heard what mike viqueira had to say, talking about the cbo estimate that in the next ten years the deficit would grow by $239 billion based on the numbers that they're looking at now. do you think that enough changes can be made to get this bill through congress? >> i think the president correctly wants to get it through both houses in some by the august recess. i think he feels that's critical. he's right. and mike viqueira is dead on the money, chris. this thing has had a terrible week with the cbo report.

mike mentions $239 billion for the deficit. that would take this year's deficit over $2 trillion. it's already at 13% of the entire economy. the country is getting tremendously upset over deficits, and spending. this is why the tide is going out very slowly on obama himself. chris, i think if the president does not get it through both houses when this congress goes home for an august recess, and he's guys are really pounded on the jobs issue, deficits, and spending, i think the bill is in very, very grave trouble. here's what i think will happen after that. one of two things. obama will either have to downsize this fairly dramatically and find a way to pay for it that people accept. or he will have to railroad it through over republicans and dissident democrats, by putting it on reconciliation. i think it's in real trouble. >> do you think it's in real trouble here, in the sense that it can't be salvaged?

you don't think that over the next couple of weeks in the case of the house, or three weeks in the case of the senate, they can make some revisions to make it more palatable? >> i think what they're going to have to do, they're going to have to downsize. these tax, an 8% tax on the entire payroll of businesses that don't provide health care. then you've got this tax of 5.4% on top of all earnings. i mean people are really -- and then you have talk of taxing health care benefits that are now deductible. these are horrendous things to put on the american people when the economy is going down, unemployment is surging. so i think they've got to downsize or they're going to railroad it through. >> i had congressman chris van holland on, and he basically said earlier on today on msnbc that they were looking now a little longer-term. would you agree that they really need to get something done

before this recess? if they go in to the summer recess, by the time they come back, this could get so muddled that nothing happens this year at all? >> look, i think you're going to see bills come out of committees. i'm not sure that both houses will pass something before the recess. they might. but the critical thing, i think, is to have this done this year. but look, here's the problem -- >> but my question, peter, is, if it doesn't get done now before the recess -- >> to get done by the end of the year? >> i don't think -- i'm not apoplectic about that, chris, i'm really not. the crucial thing, pat was talking about a tax. nobody's talking about big taxes on small businesses here. but look, when goldman sachs announces that their average worker from a secretary and a janitor all the way up to their president is making $900,000 a year this year, when some of these folks are making that kind of money, the notion of putting a surtax on those who make over $370,000 to pay to get 47

million people insured, that doesn't bother me too much and i don't think it bothers the american people too much. the real crucial thing here, though, is the numbers. getting the real numbers in. find out what the savings are from emergency rooms. find out what the real savings are going to be on prescription drugs and hospital stays, and making sure, as obama has pledged, that we're going to bring down the cost of health care in this country, instead of seeing it explode. but they have to prove that, they have to get that together, and i think that they will. >> but he hasn't done it. peter, they haven't done it. >> all the numbers are not in yet. >> they turn their tests in and the guy grading them said you failed completely, you didn't even do it. >> but look, they've had over a half a trillion dollars in savings that these companies just put through. there is more to come on this. the, you know, the ama supports the house of representatives bill. you know, you have a situation now where people are trying to

figure out what is really going on, what the numbers really are. and i think that some of this is premature. >> peter, can i say -- >> real quick, pat. we've got to go. >> from the sound of urgency of your voice, peter, that's telling me you've got a problem. >> okay. >> well, this ask a problem that's been around since teddy roosevelt. since harry truman. it ain't easy. it ain't easy. but i think we'll do it, pat. >> old friends, pat and peter, thanks, guys. good to see you. >> thank you, chris. and we'll talk to one of the original supporters of the health care bill currently making its way through committee right now, democratic congressman john dingell from michigan will join me live. investigators in jakarta, indonesia, are still trying to identify the two suicide bombers responsible for friday's deadly attacks at the ritz-carlton and jw marriott hotels. the blast killed eight people and injured dozens, including at least eight americans.

let's go live now to nbc's ian williams, who is in bangkok, thailand, for us. what's the latest there, ian? >> reporter: hello, chris. well the police gave a press conference awhile -- a short while ago, and they revised the figure for those who died back up to nine, with 53 injured. and of course, there were eight americans among those injured. although, officials say none of those injuries were life threatening. now, i heard a short while ago that one of those injured was an american businessman who runs a business there, a consultancy. and, in fact, he has been injured in -- been in the previous marriott bombing back in 2003. but i'm told that his injuries aren't serious. now, investigators continue to sift through the debris of the two hotels, the marriott and the ritz-carlton, looking to see if they can find the identity of those suicide bombers. but also, of course, the mastermind behind them.

president yudhoyono, the indonesia's recently re-elected president, was there this morning to stress the urgency of finding these people. investigators say the chief suspect is a malaysian fugitive called noordin top, a member of a regional terror group, chris. >> all right, ian williams reporting for us. thanks so much. also this hour, we're going to look back at the life and legacy of the late walter cronkite. the longtime cbs anchorman died last night in his home, surrounded by family. for years, millions of americans welcomed cronkite into their living rooms, turning to him in times of crisis and celebration. here's nbc's brian williams. >> here is a bulletin from cbs news. in dallas, texas, three shots were fired at president kennedy's motorcade in downtown dallas. >> reporter: he'll be forever linked to the assassination of our young president. and with america's spacewalk. >> man on the moon.

>> reporter: and the downfall of a president. >> we should try tonight to pull together the threads of this amazing story, quite unlike any in our modern american history. >> reporter: for 20 years in this country, 25 million americans each night got their news from walter cronkite. >> and that's the way it is. >> reporter: and for all knows watching in living rooms across the country, it was the way it was. cronkite's audience was so big, he was so influential, at times it seemed more like he was addressing the nation on a nightly basis, than just anchoring the news. when a survey named him the most trusted man in america, that title stuck. walter cronkite came from humble roots to get there, beginning with his high school newspaper. then as a cub reporter for the houston post at age 19. he covered world war ii for united press. >> i'm just back from the biggest assignment that any

american reporter could have so far in this war. >> reporter: then, came the cold war. and again, cronkite was there. >> will be exploded at 5:20 our time. that's 2 minutes and 20 seconds from now. >> reporter: he was named anchor of the cbs evening news in 1962. he was 47 when his career-defining moment arrived a year later, in the form of a bulletin from dallas, texas. >> the flash apparently official, president kennedy died at 1:00 p.m. central standard time. >> reporter: an old promotional black and white film by cbs news, a day in the life of walter cronkite, shows us an anchorman at the height of his power. in a different era, when tv was still new, and back then there were just three networks to choose from. with that power, and his huge viewing audience, came influence. after a trip to vietnam in 1968,

he concluded the war couldn't be won. >> declare that we are mired in stalemate, seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory conclusion. >> reporter: just weeks later, president johnson announced he wouldn't seek another term. >> when he saw this on the air, he said, if i've lost cronkite, i've lost middle america. >> reporter: cronkite took part in an accidental diplomacy when sadat of egypt told him on national tv he was willing to visit israel. >> that could be, say, within a week? >> you could say that, yes. >> reporter: cronkite ruled the airwaves and the newsroom at cbs, always demanding the best, always demanding more, and he gave up the anchor chair with delayed but profound regret. >> old anchormen, you see, don't fade away, they just keep coming back for more. >> reporter: years ago he was asked to sum up his own legacy.

>> he tried as a journalist. he had a vision of what journalism should be. and in his own practice, he adhered to it. >> reporter: he was every inch a journalist, but he became an american icon. a true celebrity. >> it's an honor to meet you, mr. cronkite. >> call me walter. >> reporter: among the first to be known by a single word, he was simply cronkite. and there was no other. >> and this is walter cronkite, good night. >> walter cronkite's wife betsy died of cancer in 2005. they are survived by three children. we'll be right back.

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big day for space exploration. we've got these cool live pictures from nasa. just a little while away, i guess an hour and a half from the first of five scheduled space walks. two members of the 13-astronaut team now housed at the international space station are going to venture outside to help assemble a porch that will be used to hold outdoor experiments. there are now 13 astronauts under that one roof at the space station. that's the largest ever to gather in space. we'll keep our eye on these pictures for you. msnbc is the place for politics, and the debate over health care reform intensifies. president obama pushing his plan again this morning, in his internet address. but an article on the huffington post says a group of bipartisan centrist thinking conservative senators have sent a letter to democratic and gop leaders urging a delay in considering health care reform. joining us now is democratic congressman john dingell of michigan.

he's a member of the energy and commerce committee. and a regional sponsor of the health care bill going through committee right now. congressman, good to see you. what's your assessment? what is the statistic us of this bill in the house? >> it's a good bill. we're going to pass it, and it's in the public's interest to do so. >> well, why is it in the public interest? because there do seem to be a growing number of centrist and more conservative democrats who are raising some questions, particularly since the cbo came out with this estimate that it would add to the deficit by $239 billion. >> first of all, chris, last night the cbo came out with a statement that it will not add to the deficit. that it is, in fact, deficit neutral. second of all, all of the democrats i know, including the fair number of those on the letter you refer to, want a bill. and they recognize something has to be done.

47 million people desperately need health care and have no health insurance. the costs of health care are going to break the country, because in a few years, we're seeing that the cost of health care is going to equal the whole gross domestic product. beyond that, business has to have it. if you look at what caused the steel industry bankruptcy, and what is causing the auto industry bankrupts that we're just now coming out of, you will find that health care and legacy costs were a major part. american business can no longer afford this, and we simply have to do something about it. we're the only country that does not have a major health care program, and if you look, the american automobile has $1,600 worth of health care, and $750 worth of steel. >> you mentioned that the blue dog coalition, and you say that they are supportive of it. yet late on thursday i want to read a quote from arkansas representative mike ross. he said there's no way party leaders can pass the current bill on the house floor unless

they make major changes. >> well, now that's part of the legislative process. but let me remind you that i was sitting with mike ross last night at about 6:30, and mike says that he and all of the blue dogs, and indeed all democrats, want a bill. they just want to make a bill which meets certain concerns of theirs. and, indeed, there is an honest effort being made to do that. that doesn't mean we shouldn't pass the bill. it doesn't mean that there's going to be a delay of the bill. it means simply that they have certain concerns, which they're entitled to have considered. >> let me ask you about one of those concerns, because there are a number of first-term congressmen who have raised questions about the surtax. in fact, colorado representative sent nancy pelosi the letter saying that he's concerned the surtax would impose, and these are hids words, an onerous

burden on small businesses. he's not the only person to raise this concern about what imact it would have on small businesses. what do you say to them, congressman? >> well, first of all, one with regard to small businesses, less than 5% of small businesses would be affected by that surtax. second of all, with regard to the percentage of americans that would be affected by that surtax, only about 1% of americans would be affected by this. this is a fair way, and if you look at the polls, you'll find that that happens to be one of the things that the american people think is a fair way of financing this matter. and let me remind you that we're going to finance it in two ways. one is going to be by savings, and one is going to be by certain revenue enhancers. >> so just to make sure that i have you on the record, you believe that by the time you take your summer break, this bill will pass the house? >> oh, i'm not going to -- i'm a congressman and a legislator, i'm not a prophet. that's a dangerous trade.

we're going to do our best to do it. we recognize that there's a need to do it. let me remind you that george bush left this president with a terrible mess. two wars, a depression, and $1.3 trillion deficit. he also left a huge number of unmet needs, demands, and concerns from the american people that this congress is trying desperately to address so that we can begin to make this country move again, including getting us out of this damnable depression in which he left us. >> congressman john dingell. congressman, not prognosticator. point taken, thank you, sir. good to see you. the house intelligence committee says it will investigate whether the cia broke the law by not telling congress earlier about a top secret program aimed at killing al qaeda terrorists. the committee says its investigation will focus on how much money was spent on the effort, and whether there was any training or official travel in association with the program. cia director leon panetta revealed the program's existence

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call or go online now to get started. heading into the heart of the weekend, shaping up to be a beautiful one on the east coast. out west things are sizzling. let's get the latest forecast. nbc meteorologist bill karins joins me now. >> i don't even remember the last time it rained. >> there was a little drizzle in new york city when i was walking yesterday, and i said, it never rains in california. so it was a little strange, actually. >> a lot of the west could use the rain. just another -- the heat wave that we did see in texas has now shifted. it's moved out west. this is the forecast, salt lake city. you think of salt lake city, they hosted the olympics not too long ago, the winter area. salt lake city 101 today. right through the weekend near 100. then it cols off on tuesday and warms right back up. this is a heat wave that's entrinched over the west. these are all the areas

highlighted in red that are going to be 90-plus today. it's really texas, which is a little cooler than it was at least, back through the desert. this is just brutal from phoenix to vegas today, easily into the one-teens. l.a. downtown is always warmer, towards the coast is always cooler. inland areas are going to be very hot. look at sacramento, 103. wet weather, not a lot out there today. really florida, the problem area, especially north florida from apalachicola to cedar keys, spreading over towards jacksonville and daytona beach. your beach day is probably going to be ruined throughout the afternoon. otherwise it is gorgeous. kansas city 7. st. louis is nice. atlanta doesn't have the humidity for once. which is perfect. and not bad in new england, either, chris. so not too many problem areas. we'd love to get our friends out west a little bit of wet weather, maybe on a monday through friday would work. >> honestly, i think they'd take it almost any time with all the water restrictions and everything else that's going on. 115 in phoenix? >> it's supposed to be hot, but i don't think that makes a difference, does it? >> it's a dry heat.

>> yes, i love when they say that. >> it's hot. 115, it's hot. coming up, he was more than just the face of cbs news. walter cronkite brought all of us in america to the front lines of some of the world's most notable stories. from the assassination of jfk to the moon to vietnam. we take a look at how his reporting impacted an entire nation, next on msnbc. imodium multi-symptom relief combines two powerful medicines for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms, so you can get back out there. imodium. get back out there.

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now to the latest on the economy. stocks ending the week higher, lifted on the news of several companies reporting better than expected earnings. and on friday we get a progress

report on the obama administration's economic recovery plan from the president's top economic adviser larry summers. the takeaway. >> if we were at the brink of catastrophe, at the beginning of the year, we have walked some substantial distance back from the abyss. >> but the number of banks being shut down by federal regulators continues to grow. on friday, regulators shut down two banks in california, and two smaller banks in georgia and south dakota. that boosts to 57 the number of federally insured banks that failed this year. this week's news from some of the biggest banks, which are reporting profits in the billions. here's the breakdown. citigroup reporting the profit of almost $4.3 billion. bank of america, $2 hoin 42 billion. earlier in the week, goldman sachs reported $3.44 billion. jpmorgan chase, $2.7 billion. all four, of course, had taken

in billions in government bailout money. joining us from "the washington post" newsroom is neil irwin, "washington post" financial reporter. neil, good morning. >> good morning, chris. >> a lot of americans scratching their heads and saying we just bailed these guys out, how can there possibly be this quick a turnaround? >> the simple answer is enough banks have gone under, enough of the investment banks have shut down, those that are left have a lot of business to go around. all this activity that's happening, even though the financial sector is smaller, there's a lot fewer companies to divide the business up so you're having these record profits. it sticks in the craw for people who say wait a minute, didn't i just help these guys out? didn't we bail them out back in the fall? that said, you know, it does help taxpayers on some level, because these banks are now able to repay a lot of that t.a.r.p. money they received. >> some of the banks have repaid the money. but in other ways, when you look at this and the american taxpayer says what did i get for my money, what's the answer? >> not much so far. what we have is we avoided a great depression. we avoided the entire financial system collapsing.

what we don't have yet is banks resuming to normal lending. they're not back in shape to really support economic growth, which is what we want. what they are is not collapsing and not causing a great calamity. >> and then after all these reports of profits, what we know is that some of the banks, as we said, repaid the t.a.r.p. money, and they're free of restrictions, they can give bonuses as big as they want. and you've got to wonder if just in terms of pr, you know, is congress looking at anything? are regulators looking at anything to say, we need to sort of style back on these and make sure it doesn't happen again. are are they buying into the argument we have to pay big money and big bonuses to retain the talent that got us out of this mess? >> i think washington is not buying that argument at all. i think that's why there's a huge effort to do a financial regulatory reform. that will put a lot greater restrictions on companies that are systemically important. those companies that if they were to go under would cause big problems for the economy, too big to fail. the idea is to try and put greater restrictions on them to keep them from making

irresponsible bets. the other thing to remember, even banks that have returned the t.a.r.p. money, that don't have that government money anymore, they're still benefiting from the government's bailout. they're still, you know, issuing get that's backed by the fdic. they're still, you know, they are stronger because everybody knows there's that backstop that they are too big to fail, the government will protect them if they go under. so just because a bank has returned the t.a.r.p. money doesn't mean they're free and clear from the government at this point zpp >> all right, neil, it's always good to talk to you. thanks so much. memories and praise for legendary newsman walter cronkite pouring in this morning. nbc's ron allen is live in front of cbs news headquarters in new york city. ron, you were walter's colleague at cbs. what can you tell us about what you're hearing today. >> that was a long time ago, chris. 30 years ago when i was getting started in this business. i was a desk assistant, simply a reporter in training and this is what i learned how to do what i do now and walter cronkite influenced so many of us who were coming of age at that time. the influence, of course, the entire business and the entire country.

in so many ways. it's hard to sum up and describe the feeling here. it's almost like a family that lost a father figure, a patriarch. someone who set the standard and led the way for so long here for example is what dan rather had to say, the man who followed walter cronkite to the anchor chair. >> and he never ceased being a reporter. i touched on this before, i think the public recognized this, walter loved reporting. he loved the news. he lad a passion for it. he talked eloquently about the responsibility, and to be passionately involved in the responsibilities. of doing the "cbs evening news" and things like, this is not just another broadcast. this is important to the democratic process. >> let me give you a sampling of some other statements from the president of cbs news and cbs sports, it's impossible to imagine cbs news, journalism, or indeed america without walter

concite. from katie couric who said he was the personification of excellent, and from mike wallace simply, we loved him. it's impossible to describe the feeling of reverence and respect for walter cronkite in this building. it's just really just impossible to describe. >> so they really, they built the organization around him, and it flourished with him. ron, thanks so much. do appreciate it. for more on the life and legacy of walter cronkite i'm joined now by msnbc political analyst pat buchanan, and democratic strategist peter fenn. let me start with you, pat, and give me your thoughts about the impact on not just journalism, but on america, that resulted from walter cronkite being at cbs news for 19 years. >> well, walter cronkite was the individual who really told us what has happened. i watched on cbs after kennedy was shot, it was a pause of about a half hour, we were watching cbs when he came on, and announced the death there. he was the one we watched when

those men walked, armstrong and the other, walked on the moon. but you know, i'll tell you, chris, i was in the nixon white house, and people forget walter cronkite was a powerful and influential figure. back in 1968, lyndon johnson said if we've lost walter cronkite, we've lost america. the nixon administration, from about '69 to '74 in direct conflict with the national media, especially tv. network news was the primary source of information for two-thirds of the american people. and we thought we were in a battle for control of the agenda, with the networks who controlled the access to the american people. but that was the most influential period, i think, in television journalism history. it will never be like that again. and walter cronkite, and frankly cbs, were really number one, and they were looked to, teddy white says in his book, making the

president in 1972, that this was a campaign of nixon versus cbs. primarily and mcgovern was down at number ten. it was an extraordinary time of network power and influence. and there's no doubt who was the most influential and respected figure in network journalism, was walter cronkite. >> were you watching him, peter, during those iconic moments of television news? >> i grew up with walter cronkite, i think, as so many did, in that period of the '60s and '70s. i was in college in the late '60s, and early '70s. and i think it was extraordinary that you'd have somebody like walter cronkite, who was more popular, and more respected, and more believed than the presidents of the united states during that period. and pat is right, i mean, everybody credits "the washington post," of course, with watergate and nixon but it was cronkite who put together a special about watergate and played it during that '72 election. and you know, the other thing i

think that you have to realize about the news, and chris you're so good at all of this, and you flow with it so nicely, but you know the average sound bite now on the evening news is seven seconds. in other words, when that person comes on and gives a little clip, it's seven seconds long. when walter cronkite did it in 1968, the average sound bite was 42 seconds. you can see the business of substance changing, and the way people cover things changing. and as ron said, you was a newsman's newsman. he covered the news. he didn't just deal in sound bites or quick, you know, clips. he probed, he analyzed, he ripped it off the ticker every night. so we all -- that was, you know, that's clearly was an iconic time. >> you know, we talked with brian williams earlier, pat, and not to disparage in any way cable news, because i've been a part of it for 11 years now, but

it's such a different thing that it used to be. and we were both remarking about the fact that only twice did walter cronkite sort of pause and have an emotional moment. once with the death of john f. kennedy, the other when man walked on the moon. because he was a well-known space buff. and only once did he really choose to have that moment where he gave an editorial, where he really sort of told the american people what his experience was in vietnam, and it did turn the course of the war, turned president lyndon johnson, and certainly made him know that he was in trouble, and he subsequently decided not to run for re-election. will anyone ever have that influence again, pat? >> that's what i was trying to say. and peter's right. the answer is clearly no. i mean, network television is not the primary source of news information anymore for two-thirds of the american people. the audience is down. there's a tremendous fragmentation going on. but no, they will not have this.

but let me say this, and we were on the other side, not only did cronkite remember we well that watergate, they put on a big special called the great green robbery about our sale of grain to the soviet union and we felt frankly that he was in the carve of mcgovern trying to damage us. he was basically on a level in battle with the president of the united states. but one thing we ought to say about walter cronkite, he went in, i think, in normandy, right around the time of that invasion. himself. and in 1964, i can remember him and that jeep going across the normandy battlefields. you know, with ike in the jeep, 20 years later, and chris i'll tell you, when i went to columbia journalism school in 1960, they said what's your favorite television show, and i said, it was the 20th century, with walter cronkite. all these, you know, films of the history and stuff like that. they're voted by walter cronkite. for me it was just wonderful tv in those days. of course it was different in the nixon years, i remember

those. but i met walter, he was being wheeled into the debate out there, i think it was 2004, in arizona. hello, patrick, how are you? you know. we'd been through all those battles together. and they were a long time ago. >> yeah, well, so many of us have so many great memories of him. anybody who lived through the era when he was on television for sure. peter, pat, thanks for sharing your thoughts. appreciate it, guys. >> thank you. >> walter cronkite leaves behind three children. he died last night at the age of 92. first we add the baking soda, then we put the vinegar. scientific explorations in the kitchen? bring it. it started bubbling. new bounty is thick and absorbent. it cleans the mess with less. then you know what, daddy? it exploded! pssshhh! it hit the ceiling! in lab tests, bounty absorbs twice as much... as the bargain brand. and it's more durable it was really cool. why use more when you can use less?

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during these tough economic times. joining us now from elkhart indiana is greg polling, editor of the elkhart truth. welcome, good morning to you. how do you think the town is doing now? >> the town is holding its own. there are people who are struggling here, unemployment in the county is still something on the order of 17%, slightly below that. but people are holding on. people still have faith that eventually the thing is going to turn around. >> even higher than the national average. what are the prospects for it getting better? >> well, i can point out that the unemployment rate has been consistently dropping, even though when you're at almost 20%, you know, it's just a massive challenge. but not long ago in elkhart itself, unemployment was right at about 20%. so the fact that it's down a couple of percentage points, at least that offer, you know, some hope.

there was just late this spring an initiative where potentially an electric car manufacturer could be setting up shop in elkhart county. and converting pickup trucks, light duty trucks, to electric hybrids. and that holds out the potential of about 1,600 jobs. >> and i also understand that a lot of the workers who, for example, lost, there were hundreds of workers who lost their jobs at the rv factory, that they've been going back to school, that there are programs at the local community college. do you see a real sense in the town, a hopefulness, that they will find a way to get back on their feet? >> there is hope. and what you have to understand here is that people are fighters. okay? they have never wanted a handout from the government. they want the government, clearly, to do something to help create jobs. but they don't want handouts. they want to work. and yeah, people are going back to school in droves, actually, trying to find new careers.

learn new skills. to make sure that this never happens again. community leaders are working on finding new ways, essentially, of recruiting business, and recasting this community as something other than solely dependent on rv manufacturing. and in the rv segment there are people working really hard to develop rvs that are more environmentally responsible, more fuel efficient. so, on a number of fronts, there are initiatives to bring business back to elkhart county. >> how are things going in your business? how is the elkhart truth doing? >> once again we're holding our own. we're doing good journalism. you mentioned earlier the elkhart project. you know, we're the only newspaper and website in this kind of arrangement anywhere. and the reason that we were interested in it is because it keeps elkhart's story out in front of the nation. nobody's going to forget us now, as long as we're part of this project. and that was our big worry. that president obama would come here, as he did in february, his

first trip as president outside washington, and then people would forget us. well, thanks to the elkhart project and our involvement with msnbc.com, we're generating a lot of interest for elkhart. our business, we're holding our own. when you look -- you put out a paper in that community with 20% unemployment and your circulation is steady, i'd say that's a win. >> i'd say that's very impressive. greg, it's good to talk to you. continued good luck to you and all the folks there in elkhart. we do appreciate it. >> thanks very much. if you'd like to learn more about the elkhart project you canning willen to msnbc.com. and coming up, we flash back to that giant leap for mankind. the 40th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing next right here on msnbc. 100 potato chips...

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on monday, nasa will commemorate the 40th anniversary of apollo 11's historic moon walk. the lunar module landed on the

moon july 20th, 1969, after a four-day trip from earth. in its latest issue, "time" magazine examines what life is like for an astronaut after a lunar mission. joining me now in studio, senior editor for "time" magazine. good morning. >> good morning. >> pretty exclusive club, 24 men have walked on the moon. but, what's it like when they come back? >> well, there's a certain, we call an existential whiplash that comes from returning to earth. you've been on the surface of another world on a tuesday, say, and you come back and suddenly you're in your neighborhood on a friday. dave scott, the commander of apollo 15 once told me that one of the most gilting experiences for him was when he got back to houston and his neighbors threw him a barbecue and he walked over to his friend's house and realized a week ago i was on the moon. what on earth am i doing here now? >> one astronaut who walked on the moon once said to me that he had this overwhelming sense, and almost a depression of there he was, a young guy, and he would

never do anything for the rest of his life that would equal that. >> well, that's exactly right. and one of the psychologists i spoke to for this story said that you have this self-selecting group of high energy people who are exceedingly competitive. they train for years and years for something, and it's over in a week to ten days. and he said there could be a real sense of loss, almost a sense of grief that comes interest that. >> they want to achieve something. >> exactly. >> and then where do you set your next goal? i walked on the moon, what am i going to do to top that? >> you're 38 years old. you have to keep busy for half a century after that. >> what does nasa do now to ensure a healthy return to earth? we obviously don't have men walking on the moon. but you do have the same sort of process, this very competitiveness, these high achieving individuals, and they prepare for years and years and years, and then it's over very quickly. >> that's right. and nasa is much more attentive now to the psychological health of its pilots than it used to be. jim lovell said when we spoke about this a couple of days ago, he said, i guess they figured we

were big boys and didn't need the help. but nasa now knows that they do need help. and paradoxically, some of the help they get now involves not massive global fame followed by indifference, but indifference from the start. because people have just sort of quit paying attention to the shuttle. >> so where were you july 20th, 1969? >> i was at a most appropriate place, i was at a summer camp called camp comet, a space camp -- >> seriously? that must have been unbelievable. >> all of our bunks were named after planets and i was sitting in a giant rec hall with two other campers around a little black and white tv with rabbit ear antennas and it was the perfect place to be. >> what was that like, was everybody cheering? >> they were whooping. it tells us something about the role walter cronkite played. he's woven into even that memory. the moment he said, that's it, man is on the moon, there was a cheer that went up from the throat of 200 campers that i'll never forget. >> people can read a lot more about it in this week's "time." thanks for coming in. >> thank you