aisle. >> mika, the godfather. >> the reason why this song -- >> you've really never seen godfather? >> no. >> focus. there's a reason why it's playing? >> something to do with the news? >> i just tried. >> waterloo. he backs off the august deadline. speaking of deadlines. gitmo. we're going to talk with all of it. we'll talk with michael steele later in the show. he's in hot water back and forth. plus chris brown speaks out and apologizes. we really don't care. we're going to talk a lot of health care. polls for the president you're going to be talking about. i'm going to be asking donny deutsche why the president reframed the debate. he's lost so much momentum.

i'm going to ask mark halperin why he believes it's passable anyway. >> is it? >> it is. you seem quite confident the president is going to get what he wants even if the american people don't want it. >> only compared to you. >> okay. i don't know what that means. now here is mika with the news. >> time to look at today's top stories. administration officials say they will not meet today's self-imposed deadline to complete reports reviewing america's interrogation and detention policies. much of that delay focuses on dozens of detainees at guantanamo bay, many of whom are considered too dangerous for relief yet too difficult to try in military or civilian court. the white house is committed to closing the facility by january. meanwhile, president obama is speaking out about private bergdahl, the american taken hostage by forces in afghanistan.

it comes in an interview with meredith vierra. >> it's always heartbreaking. our young men and women serving in the armed forces do such an extraordinary job, put themselves in harm's way each and every day, especially those deployed in afghanistan and in iraq. so seeing something like this, it makes you think about families. it makes you think about the young man. we are hopeful that it will have a good ending, and we are doing everything we can. >> as that search continues, the u.s. military is marking july as the single deadliest month of the now eight-year war in afghanistan. at least 30 american troops have died this month in the conflict including four killed yesterday by a roadside bomb. >> mark halperin that's just like the surge in iraq. when we put the surge on eniraq, a lot more american deaths early on. >> you get in there and have to deal with the instability at the

front depending on what's going to happen. it's unfortunate and sad but it's going to happen. >> so nobody is surprised by this as sad as it may be. >> despite a major push, president obama is acknowledging press for congressional overhaul of health care may take longer than he'd hoped. >> you're backing off the august deadline kind of thing. you wanted this passed by -- >> here i think is a fair assessment. i want this done now. if there are no deadlines nothing gets done in this town. you've been around here long enough to know, you have to say get this done. if somebody comes to me and says it's basically done. it's going to spill over by a few days or a week, that's different. >> now a new usa -- >> a few days, a week, hasn't it gone from august to the end of

the year. >> no end of the year is decided. >> the plan together. >> at least the polls are going their way. >> the gallup polls are signaling growing doubts over the president's handling of health care. according to the polling, 44% approve of the president's efforts while 50% do not. when it comes to the overall economy 47% now approve the white house policy that's down eight points from may. interesting. >> real quickly. donny, obviously they have lost 15 points or so on health care, 20 if you do back four or five months. what does the press need to do really quickly to move forward. >> we're seeing him all the time. he's on a full frontal attack. clearly the republicans are being very smart. they are sensing blood in that he's in kind of a lose lose position in a sense if he doesn't get anything through, this is a disaster, he's failed.

if he pushes something extreme does that set up a failure in the next midterm elections. i think single or double, get this off the table. get together with the moderate democrats and say what is it going to take? i'm an extremist, i'm for redistribution of wealth. basically no reason why people making a million bucks a year can't pay $9,000 a year to pay extra tax toss save lives. we need that. that being said, he needs to get this through in some form and just get on it. get this not defining his presidency. >> of course a news conference the president will be having tomorrow night during prime time 8:00 eastern time. that will be interesting. >> hit a single here, get up to bat. >> i agree with you. when you have people like colin powell a month ago saying he's trying to do too much. bob woodward counted 150 proposals that had been thrown out there. i think the people that have

been washington to know what's possible, politics possible, too much has been thrown at the wall too quickly and the american people are recoiling. when i say the american people, let me be specific, independents are. that middle group that elected barack obama, that elected george w. bush, that elected bill clinton. the people that swing elections. it's overload for this group. here is the problem. does something need to be done? yes. as i've been saying on this show every day for three or four months now, we've got to cut costs. we've got to do what some people calli call rationing. nobody is talking about the math, making hard choice. >> everybody is. nobody has the solution. >> we all have the solution. just like social security.

you and i could fix social security in five minutes with a piece of paper. there's a solution out there but it's going to tell middle class americans tough choices ahead. >> and wealthy americans -- >> there's -- >> nobody wants to give anything up anywhere. >> here is the problem. if we could tax our way out of this. if you could soak rich americans and save the health care system, it would be done. we don't have the money. because the growth -- i keep saying this, concord coalition will tell you this, the cbo will tell you this. because the rise of health care costs over the next decade is going to be just so horrifying that we don't have enough tax money. we could raise taxes to 80% and we wouldn't say medicare and medicaid and the health care system because the rate of

growth amps up so quickly, especially with baby boomers. what does it mean? what it means is you've got to tell people that are 87 years old who have cancer, i think that's approximately the age -- was it barack obama's aunt? >> his grandmother. >> harwood told us, you've got to ask tough questions, do you give 87-year-old's with terminal cancer hip replacement surgery. do you spend 25, 30% of your health care costs on the final year of life. that's why people say -- that's why -- and also, donny, you have a headache this weekend. somebody in your family died of an aneurysm when they were exactly your age. do we let donny go in and get -- wait a second. get an mri? the answer is we need a president and we need congress to approach this wisely. i'm talking republicans.

republicans don't want to touch this easier. it's easier to say let's in sure 47 million americans and do it by october and nobody has value. instead of saying, wait a second, we can't tax our way out of this. you're going to have to sacrifice -- >> the question is unanswerable. these are questions of morality. >> but donny, see, here is the problem. we can answer them now or we can answer them ten years from now. if we answer them ten years from now, it's too late. you know who knows this? president obama knows this. and he's talked about costs. he's even talked about taking on entitlement reform. he's been told by nancy pelosi no. republicans are waiting for him to go there. they know he'll be savaged. these are not unanswerable questions. they are answerable. the question is do we have a politician alive that's got the guts to tackle it. that's why everything we see w

now. >> we're in the era, it's a show, sound and fury signifying nothing because we all go bankrupt anyway. >> cigarettes, save $100 million a year. you want the real hard answer? we still sell a product we kill ourselves with. outlaw tobacco you solve the health care problem. >> you pay for it. $100 billion. that's what cigarettes cost health care. >> that's an easier solution than telling an 87-year-old she can't have hip replacement. >> i agree. >> i predict that won't happen. >> where do we find such men. >> crystallizing things. after months of deadlock,

california governor and lawmakers agreed on a deal to close the state's $26 billion budget deficit. it does not include a tax increase but $15 billion in spending cuts. the full legislature expected to vote this week. they also have a little issue with marijuana out there. >> you hear that? >> yeah. >> they dragged in pot growers who were saying tax us. >> please. we'll help you make money and we'll make you much money. after meetings in india -- >> i wonder if the pot heads that got pulled into catholic high school by the nuns had proposed actually using that for a fund-raising drive -- >> the special brownie bake sale. >> i wonder if that would have gotten them out of detention. >> paid for a new wing. >> i'm just saying california needs help and they are trying to help. >> chris says he needs help. >> yes, he does. after meetings in india, secretary of state hillary clinton is in thailand this

morning talking to top officials there. on monday clinton took up the issue of north korea's nuclear ambition likening the regime to unruly children. >> what we've seen is this constant demand for attention. and maybe it's the mother in me or the experience i've had with small children and unruly teenagers and people who are demanding attention, don't give it to them. they don't deserve it. they are acting out in a way to send a message that is not a message we're interested in receiving. >> okay. >> an unruly child. >> speaking of unruly children. >> exactly. >> bill karins, what's going on? >> rain dance, joe, welcome back. >> i'm back. it's raining. >> it is. >> like mussolini. >> like a black cloud.

like pig pen, you walk around with a black cloud. >> also brought back your favorite graphic, the green airplanes. they are not going to stay that way for long. later this afternoon and this morning as the airports get going and the place starts taking off, we will have significant delays. the green on the map, that is rain. it is now locked in from philadelphia up the turnpike into new york. it will be a slow morning drive. also raining lightly in boston. it will only increase and get worse as we go throughout the day. a closer view of new york city, that yellow of new york, heavy rain currently as we go through the half hour it will lighten up a little bit. it's an umbrella day. should rain on and off all day. temperatures will be cooler. there's a look at the plaza. can you see there a light, steady rain. it will continue on and off all morning. also we have to watch our friends in the dallas-ft. worth area, some strong thunderstorms coming down on you about a half hour from now. already 85 mile-per-hour wind gusts in oklahoma with significant damage. there is some problem weather

attachment your time at the airport. you may need a little patience. what's that say? >> we've got a huge show today. >> you're the weather man, you should know how to say that? >> we've got a big show, michael steele launch ag full scale attack on obama. some say this democrat may be the key to a health care deal. senator tom coburn and john brasso will be with us. later pulitzer prize winning columnist gene robinson. look, "politico" working on a new poll with numbers on obama health care which they say are wild and crazy. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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walter cronkite was a giant

in industry. was that a man you looked up to. >> i wanted to be when i was a kid. it was like carrot top to you. >> pretty good. >> that was good. >> yes, it was. >> welcome back to "morning joe." chief correspondent for "politico," mike allen here with the playbook. good morning, mike. >> i love being on this show morning mika. >> let's start with the polls, this is exciting. "politico" has a poll to reveal to us right now and we can't wait. >> what it shows is the president continue among independents, not only approval in handling of the issues but also trust. we see here more and more independents don't trust the president on health care. and something very troublesome for democrats, the idea of a government plan. joe, i know this is going to

crush you, i'm glad you're sitting down, but support for a government plan is falling. people believe -- i don't know how they would think this, but they believe that's going to diminish their care. as the president continues his pr campaign the numbers are falling. he needs to change the dynamic. that's why we'll see him in a prime-time news conference. >> 33 say better, 42 say yes, 25% in the middle. what about the from the president taking on congress? in his mind he wants to trump congress. what do you mean? >> this is a big fight people thought the president was going to lose. "morning joe" talked about how the defense secretary robert gates has been out telling congress they have to buy these weapons differently. we're not going to keep buying weapons we don't need because they are made in your congressional district. the f-22 became a symbol of

this. like nasa they spread the goodies out between states and districts. the military doesn't want it, they don't need it. it's not safe. one of them has never flown over iraq or afghanistan yet congress insisted on funding it. a vote at high noon, as david rogers put it, looks like the president will got his way. this won't be in the budget. what turned the tide? someone started working the phones. you know what name i'm going to say, rahm emanuel. he's always there, turns the tide. the white house chief of staff gets it done. >> we they'd to talk about rahm and ask about health care and some other things that are slipping away. but he's exactly right, on procurement of weapons systems, when you get there you see democrats and republicans on one side of the issue. it's very confusing until you

realize that certain people represent certain military contractors, others represent other military contractors. it's stunning. >> it's local, baby. >> mike has been looking into the presidential family tree. tell us about that. >> who related to now? >> mentioned the mormon church president thomas mossman was going to visit the president yesterday. people who were giving the preview then said in the notes they couldn't remember the details of it but they said the president was going to give obama a book. i said, i don't think you want to say that. no, the book of mormon, five leather bound geological books including proof the president is eighth cousin of -- >> dick cheney. >> dick cheney. >> so it's true.

it's true. >> church of jesus christ of latter-day saints says it's true. >> my wife is really into genealogy, and i think the mormons -- i don't know the details. but no, she really, really is into genealogy. apparently the mormons do it better than anybody else. >> mika's cousin. >> that explains a lot. >> mike allen, thank you. >> tomorrow we'll do who joe is related to? >> do you know? you should find out for us. >> i'll have a good answer for you. >> we're not telling anybody. >> thank you, mike. "new york times" obama pushing the early vote on health reform. "washington post." joe. gop focuses efforts to kill the house bill. republicans seek to ling issue with obama's handling of the economy. i'm not sure that's there.

i think the issue there is or not. >> actually they are irrelevant. >> washington times -- california leaders strike deal on budget plan, calling for deep cuts. no tax increase. they have got big problems. >> huge problems in l.a. no doubt about it. coming up. >> coming up first look at business live from london. also must-read opinion page right here on "morning joe." ( conversation ) garth, you're up. hold on, i'm at capitalone.com picking a photo... for my credit card. here's one from my prom. oh, what memories. how 'bout one from our golf outing? ( shouting ) i know, maybe one of my first-born son.

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welcome back to "morning joe." before 6:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at top stories. defense secretary robert gates say the army will boost size 22,000 soldiers for three years. many are expected to go to afghanistan where nearly 70,000 u.s. troops will likely be deployed by the end of the year. >> that's very important because the army was cut 200,000 the early 1990s, and we got more men and women -- less men and women doing more. that's why they are never home. that's why we have all the deployments. this is a good move for people serving in the army especially

now. >> this morning house of representatives said to hear one of the government's t.a.r.p. programs. the inspector general for the program will testify that the treasury has failed to adopt several recommendations leading to a lack of transparency. it includes failing to provide taxpayers with information on how their t.a.r.p. investments are performing. >> mark halperin, the democrats in the house and some republicans just tearing geithner and others up saying they are mishandling the t.a.r.p. >> both parties see this as unpopular. you don't need a public opinion poll to know people don't like all this government money going to bail out wall street. it's going to be up to people like geithner and bernanke to stand firm if they feel it's the right way to go. >> when we talk about president's falling health care numbers, to be fair to the president, a lot has less to do with health care than the accumulation of the bailouts and the bush four years, stimulus

package nancy pelosi pushed. we can't put the president's budget squarely on the president's shoulder, the massive deficit he pushed for ten years. detroit that started with george w. bush. then you've got cap and trade. >> you sound like a moderate. >> no, i'm a conservative. no, what i'm saying is -- >> just say it like it is. >> what i'm saying is the president, this is not just all about the president's health care package being terrible, which i think it is terrible. this is an accumulation going back to bailouts that began with george w. bush. you add all of these things up and that's why independent and some moderate democrats are saying enough. we heard this on the book tour all the time. i voted for this guy, but this is too much. i didn't vote for this. it's an accumulation of two years of massive big government

solutions and people in the middle are overloaded. conservatives have always voted against them and liberals will always love them. it's the people in the middle, it's too much. information overload. too big a government for them. >> final story, a vote in the california legislature expected on thursday to close the state's $26 billion budget deficit. a proposal agreed upon yesterday includes $15 billion in cuts, $9 billion of which will come from education. as of friday, the states had issued nearly $700 million in i.o.u.s to cover bills. >> california has always been the future, right? it's the future now. sadly, that's what i was talking about, donny, we take care of it now or down the road when you realize you can't tax your way out of it, you've got to start making draconian cuts. >> push back, this is all a snowball of too much government. you know what this is a snowball

of, greed. not enough government. a few years back people listen to greenspan, more regulation on subprime mortgages, you go back to that, you don't have the dilemma we have now. that is ground zero. wind it back a few years. so the real culprit is not too much government it's unbridaled greed in the country. if we could really play monday morning quarterback, not at 9.5 unemployment, not at the housing bubble, that's the culprit, the devil. >> we will let you have the final word so i don't disagree for three hours. >> we have more time coming up. first let's get an early check on business with cnbc louisa in london. >> good morning. i'm eavesdropping. i guess it's a dilemma between you have the government that comes in and bails out the

automakers and saves jobs, things like that or lower your protectionism barriers and allow for the chinese to come in and help out or middle eastern investors who are willing to put money and park in corporations that have been very close to hitting the wall. it's a very difficult issue. european trading higher. bernanke started his two-day testimonial in front of congress he's not going to tell us when they are going to start to raise rates. he's indicated rates are going to stay level for the time being as we sort out this mess. >> love to join in on your conversation. >> louisa, we have to have you. we have to have her on the show. i love her. daily beat tina brown, also this morning's must-read opinion page. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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i sometimes think we're getting played a little bit. we've created] this drama he's struggling to get this done. there's no doubt there's a tough road ahead for members of congress. but chris, 15 years ago, we had industry spending millions. there was more money on tv being spent to kill health care than to pass it. we have the exact opposite now. more money has been spent advocating the president's health care proposal than defeating it. that environment makes it like, look, they are going to get something. they are not going to do nothing. they are going to get something. what it looks like in the end, that's a whole other story. >> let's bring editor and chief, tina brown. >> nice to have you. >> nice to be here. >> we've got some op-eds, fascinate "new york times" liberal suicide march. we were just reading this before. mark showing this to me.

i think it's dead on. >> david brooks says in three phases suicide march begins with stimulus, then budget and health care. he says this. that leaves matters in the hands of the blue dog democrats. these brave moderates trying to restrain fiscal explosion. but moderates inherently lack seniority. they are in swing districts. they are usually leadership of the day. here we are again >> we've been saying this, not to keep repeating this mantra. we've been saying this every day for months. they are overreaching, overreaching. tina, david brooks says here, it's interesting the republican party lose touch with america. now he's saying it's interesting to watch democrats do the same thing. >> it is interesting obama said when he took over he didn't want to be in the bubble of the

presidency. but i do somewhat feel that he is right now only because he's become such a rock star that he doesn't -- there's not anybody in the administration that runs the business. there's an out of touch with small businesses which are being absolutely hit. what amuses me a bit all the way through the campaign, kennedy, kennedy, kennedy, lincoln, lincoln, lincoln. now we're into the lbj moment. they keep invoking lbj. what would lbj do. they will take the lbj solutions. there was quite a difference between lbj and obama. >> they are quite, quite different. nobody knew washington more than lbj. >> absolutely. he was so wired as a kind of nitty-gritty back room -- >> that's a great one. >> the outsider -- >> guess what, mark halperin

sounds a lot like 1976, everyone wanted the outsider, everyone kennedy, kennedy, kennedy, now the op-ed, carter, carter, carter. >> that's the other -- >> david brooks, the committee chair, liberal committee chair are not afraid of barack obama, that he needs to inspire fear in the democrats or he can't keep things more in the center. >> we all have short memories. if we go back to september 15th, had he not bailed out wall street. did we not psychologically this country, the stimulus, we were at armageddon. the financial system was crumbling. >> i'd like to know a bit more about that. >> george w. bush, obviously president september 15th again -- >> this is in terms of too much government spending.

the issue of oh, my god, spend, spend, spend, whether bailouts, stimulus. previous president and current president not taking a path, our financial system would have crumbled. >> we were told that a great deal of times. the next op-ed goes right into that, because i think there's a stage we have set for problems down the road. this is the "chicago tribune" saddling the next generation with debt. truth is, we're

>> you've got the congressional budget office saying of president obama's budget, the numbers don't add up. it will wreck this economy. >> of the health care. >> hold on. i'm starting with the budget, because the budget half. now on health care the ceos come out and said it's not going to not only hurt health care because it will place an additional burden on health care, it's going to hurt our economy. it's going to increase deficits. and yet everybody just charges ahead. again, republicans -- >> in this issue, i think partly because of the short attention span of the media culture frankly and partly because of

people are just crippled with an overload of anxiety and rushed agendas and so on, people don't really still understand what any of these programs are. wishing each one of the programs could have a ten-minute presentation almost to the jury of the american public so they can really under what it's about and feel like they are getting behind something -- >> how can we do that, tina, when this president and the democrats have been in such a hurry that they pass a stimulus bill, the biggest bill ever, that congress doesn't even read before it passes. they pass cap and trade, which they don't read before it passes. >> that's scary. >> hold on. let's talk about who is to blame here. then you've got a president that says -- >> what i do think is tragic -- i saw the ted kennedy piece he wrote this week i think in one

of the news magazines. >> newsweek. >> it was moving. i didn't expect it to be. it did set out in a human way what it felt like to have a lot of illness in the family and not to have the actual means to deal with it. to be in emergency rooms time and time again with people who couldn't. wemont get away from what the american people want, affordable health care. it's a tragic paradox. >> do we have to have it done by august? >> the problem is politically he probably does. >> the democrats are already afraid of the midterm election. if he doesn't do it this year, it's not going to happen. >> you're talking politics. we're talking in this op-ed about policy. we're rushing, rushing, rushing. >> it's what he believes. >> here we go again. here is yet another

justification for rushing through another massive bill whose consequences we don't know. we've got to rush the stimulus package through or else the economy will collapse forever. remember the president saying that we've got to rush cap and trade through without reading it. now we're going to rush health care through without reading it. >> the midterm elections he's going to have to worry about running for re-election. you may see this as rushed. we know what problems are. it's not a mystery. we're the only industrialized democracy without health care. there have been hearings for years and years. this plan, i think he's made a mistake by not -- >> downed the plan. >> understand the basic out lines of it. >> this plan, i think he made a mistake not standing up to democrats like david brook. if he doesn't do it this year, it cripples his presidency. he'll never do it. >> this president's problem is, and we'll follow up on what

david brooks said -- what mark halperin said, his problem is he hasn't reached out to republicans at all. >> he tried. >> he did try. we get to the point, a tremendous amount of rhetoric towards the republican. >> give me one example. >> well -- >> no, give me an example. >> he has encouraged talk, particularly in the senate, to try to get some bipartisan committee in the finance committee. >> stimulus package. was that an effort? budget, was that an effort? cap and trade. hold on a second. what i'm trying to do is cut through the generalities pushed on mainstream media day in and day out. we're trying to bore down into the fact, "time" magazine says everybody is blaming it on this or that.

the president controls the agenda. he didn't reach out on stimulus, budget, cap and trade. is he reaching out on health care. >> hear is the problem. i think you're looking the wrong way. he's reached out a little bit. you can't reach out if you're captive to house dmgs and he is. >> sometimes what the leader does is tuck the ball under their arm and go. that's reality. you know that better than anybody. >> no, listen. if he can do that -- let's go back to what tina brown said. this guy is no lbj. if you're lbj and you know how to -- lbj would pick up the phone. we heard these in lbj tapes that came out. he would pick up the phone and ask, president of the united states, what was happening in a markup of an appropriation subcommittee. he knew everything. obama is not there. >> obama is great for crowd pleasing. one place this is not what we need.

you do need that arm twisting, back room stuff. >> by partisan. >> it's got to be sold in a different way. but he he's attached to the house democrats. the biggest problems we have the economy hasn't picked up. this whole conversation would be different if it has. >> stay with us and we'll talk a lot more about that. if you don't have to be by partisan, don't be by partisan, get your stuff through. this president is running up kbens the wall right now. as you say, let's not pass him off for where he's not been. michael steele, he's not bipartisan, first a battle is brewing in the east, yankees and red sox now tied for first place. yankees collapse. up next with sports. nothing beats walmart's unbeatable prices...

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[ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less,

we send you a check for the difference, automatically. you can make a positive change in your career. you can make a greater contribution to the greater good. and you can start today, by earning your degree online... at walden university. where advanced degrees advance the quality of life. the red sox and yankees are now tied for first. here is nbc's fred rogin with sports. >> thank you and good morning. streaking yankees enjoyed the second half of the season. last night they won their fourth straight in dramatic fashion.

petit pitching the best game of the year. runs at a premium for both times. the ninth, one, matsui, a home run. yanks won 2-1. the celebration didn't stop there. matsui received shaving cream in the face after the game. tied in the al east for red sox. that's because boston was burned by the long ball in texas. starter gave up back-to-back home runs to murphy. and in the sixth. six runs and five and two-thirds, straight 6-3. philly, fills baseball. nine straight after the cubs. ryan howard hit his 24th homer. philadelphia all over chicago 10-1. michael vick release freddie federal custody after serving a 23 month sentence. free to talk to any nfl club. for him to play he'll need the

blessing of the commissioner. how about this. shaquille o'neal who loves the spotlight, loves it is shaping a new reality tv series. athletes. shaq versus. august 15th, he'll take on ben roethlisberger. in the future he will have oscar de la hoya and others. the upcoming nba season, make money. a huge twitter fan posted pictures of himself kissing the prize trophy also pouring beer into it, also a suitcase holding with a caption, i'm boarding flight back to the states with one more carry on. now, first major championship. that's your shot of sports on "morning joe." i'm fred rogin. >> thanks for the shot, fred. next, savannah guthrie, live from the white house. we'll be right back. my guys brush their teeth like they clean their room.

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all right. almost the top of the hour. we're looking at the one of the top stories. >> it's pouring outside. that means joe is back in manhattan. talking about henry louis gates

arrested. the daily beat talks about it. >> a great piece by a friend of gates and wrote the piece. it really is a staggering thing. i think what it is is a wakeup call. we've got a black president. we think we've made strides. but nonetheless, a distinguished african-american scholar, quite understandable somebody would say he's trying to break in and the cops would come and when he produces his harvard id card. >> we'll talk about this more. we want to explain the whole situation on "the beast." >> coming up on the show. >> also new polls out regarding health care. first mika, do the news. >> time for a look at today's top stories. administration officials say they will not meet the self-imposed deadline to complete america's detention policies. much of the delay focuses on

detainees at guantanamo bay many of whom are too dangerous to release or try in civilian or military court. still the white house is committed to closing the facility by january. meanwhile president obama speaking out about private bergdahl, the american soldier taken hostage by forces in afghanistan. it comes from meredith vierra. >> i have not spoken to the family simply because we want to make sure that before we do, we have something to tell them. i think we're at this point evaluating what our options are. but it is a reminder of what these young men and women are doing on behalf of our safety and security. i'm thankful to them each and every day. >> we're going to have savannah guthrie on later on today. we're going to talk about -- she's talking about another part of that interview with meredith

vierra. >> bring back -- actually -- >> president obama said people are making fun of his jeans, his dad jeans he used during the all-star game. >> did he have creases. >> they are not expandible are they. >> president obama talking about whether or not he's going to wear tight jeans. >> all right. that's what we're talking about. >> he'd be cool. >> all right. are we done. >> what does that mean? i don't know what that means? >> are we done? >> yes, we're done. savannah will tell us. >> unbelievable, tina. unruly children. >> as the search continues u.s. military is marking july as the single deadliest month of the now eight-year war in afghanistan. >> at least 30 american troops have died this month in the conflict including four killed yesterday by a roadside bomb. despite a major public push, president obama is acknowledging his press corps congressional

overhaul of health care and he's acknowledging it may take longer than he hoped. >> we are backing off the august deadline kind of thing. you wanted this passed by august i think you said. >> here is the fair assessment. i want this done now. >> okay. >> now, if there are no deadlines, nothing gets done in this town. you've been around here long enough to know that you have to say, get this done. if somebody comes to me and says it's basically done. it's going to spill over by a few days or a week, that's different. >> now new usa today gallup polls, signaling growing doubt over the president's handling of health care. according to the polling, 44% approve of the president's efforts while 50% do not. now, when it comes to the overall economy, 47 approve of white house policy. that's down eight points from may. so polls are showing that maybe there's a public sentiment

that's a bit concerned. >> mark halperin, take us inside these numbers. >> as you said before, independents is where most of this erosion has been. he's putting out a lot of effort to do an inside game in congress and outside with public opinion. the polls have a reinforcing affect in congress. we talked before. democrats are not afraid of him. republicans are certainly not afraid of him. these polls all the same direction, can't write them off, suggest he's losing public support. that gives him less of a hand on the inside game. >> is this just people seeing 10% unemployment, seeing an economy still not feeling right and has nothing to do with him. yes, it's going to tar on him. but in reality if we are still broken as an economy. >> i think that's right and i think that's why the tax suggestion was just greeted with such resounding boo, because i

think americans are in a crouch position right now. they are just waiting for another blow to come raining down. that's where i do think the administration has been a little bit in the bubble. because although they are aware of that, they don't really feel it. of course, because they are in a bubble and they can't really feel it. but it is such a real thing that people are just panicked and overwhelmed at the idea of anything right now that's going to add to their load. >> here is where i think his style is a problem to answer your question. he needs people to feel he's fighting for them to solve the problems they are concerned about. he's not seen as a fighter. he's concerned. >> the special rock star pedestal for the first 60, 90, 120 days frankly there was nowhere to go. the honeymoon had to wear off a little bit. >> at this point you need to bring on bill clinton to sell health care. >> why? he did so well the tiers time. >> no, because he's such a great explainer. one of the great things about

clinton, he just knows how to explain. >> i think he's as good as an explainer. what he's not as good as clinton is, at least not so far, is fighting with people. i'm standing up to special interest, my own party and the extremes of the other party. >> he did know how to get through. >> the problem is, though, it's not just that the american people are overwhelmed, they can't absorb all this, the american people are pretty damn start and they prove instinctively time and time again they know when republicans go too far to the right and democrats go too far to the left. mika, we've seen every day since january 20th, let's quickly go through this because this is a hell of a lot to absorb. it's historic, more historic than what fdr decided to do. we had a stimulus paenl, the biggest spending bill ever.

five percent of american gdp, the new deal was only 2% of gdp. we had a record setting deficit, unsustainable deficits. cap and trade, which was pushed as an energy tax, a purely democratic ideological bill. health care plan, ceos come back out and said it's unsustainable. this year we're going to be spending as a country. this has nothing to do with style. forty percent, in 2009, 40% of our economy, gdp will be spent by the government. that's happened one time before, world war ii. if americans are saying in the middle, whoa, let's put on the brakes, i think that may be understandable for a lot of these independents. >> i'm looking at this list and i think there's something that adds to the public concern that i think is really mounting right now. that is, first of all, with the

budget and with health care, there's concerns the projections about the economy are off. and that's now making headlines it didn't back then. what i would add to this list even though it isn't part of the obama presidency, the wall street bailout. people have been pushed over a cliff and said trust us too much. now they are feeling -- >> you talk about when joe biden came out and said projections were off, we were too optimistic. remember, all of these projections, even when they say these numbers are so big it's unsustainable, it will cripple our economy, that's assuming a 4% rate of growth. when it's 1% or 2% suddenly $20 trillion deficits become $30 trillion deficits. >> unemployment. >> unemployment goes up. and listen, unemployment is not going to go down most likely for a year or two, if you look at the new deal. even after industrial -- let me finish my point, please.

even after industrial production went up in the 1930s, it took, what, seven, eight years for unemployment to come down. for anybody to believe unemployment is going to come down over the next year magically because of a stimulus package, that's unrealistic. tina. >> i don't think it is. i think it's probably going to increase. in fact, everybody i speak to in the financial arena says that if it's flat, they will be happy. they mostly see down, which i think is a very scary feeling. but of course it also means this massive unemployed are not going to have health insurance. have this catch-22. you do see the american public despite feeling nervous, extraordinarily nervous about these rush-through bills, they do want universal health care. this is the great sort of balance obama is trying to play right now. he does have, as you say, a tremendous problem with the extremely sort of radically left

in congress. i don't quite know how he reconciles that, because his biggest dilemma, he doesn't want to be jimmy carter. there's an enormous fear of sort of messing it up like the clinton administration did when they tried to get it through and couldn't by midterm. >> the stimulus was not enough. the problem you're laying out which are so clear, at the same time we're saying don't do anything, time out, time out, time out, you just exacerbate the problems. if you look at him as the ceo of the country, to me he didn't do enough. i'm a warren buffett guy. i don't think he did enough. we're in this vicious cycle. >> look where we were in january. this explains a lot about the psychologist of the american people. in january nobody knew whether this economy was going to collapse, how far down we were going to go, was there going to be a run on the banks, was the end of western civilization upon us. people are comfortable now.

yes, some things were done. >> we got some banks. >> i don't think they are comfortable. >> i think business leaders are very uncomfortable. you talk to any business leader and they are like this is yucky. >> you think he should stop pushing health care, right? >> no. he cannot afford to stop pushing health care. what he needs to do is call evan buy, jean, our friend from missouri. >> claire mccaskill. >> he needs to call the two democrats from arkansas in, he needs to call them into the oval office and say -- >> they stay centrist and what does he say to the house democrats. >> he says look at 1993. you've got a choice to make nancy pelosi. do you want to stay in the majority or do you want to have it your way? we can do it like democrats in the house did in '93 and '94 and

lose control of the house or we can worry about moderate democrats who are not going to follow us over the cliff. >> why do you think -- >> what does that look like? >> i don't know. you would have to ask evan buy. i think you've got to figure out if you can't in sure 47 million americans, you've got to in sure enough of those americans -- i would start with the young. i would narrow my focus. i would do something that will not save health care because they don't have the political will to do that, give the american people something that will make them feel better about themselves. we're taking care of this segment of the population that never had health care before. did i get 47 million? no, unfortunately we didn't have the wallet or will. >> when will we have universal health care in america? >> i would say what we're going to do is focus on fixing this

economy. whatever it takes we're going to narrow our focus. we're going to stabilize the credit markets. we're going to improve the banks, turn the economy around. my first priority when i get out of the d.c. poll is universal health care. >> vicious cycle. >> i didn't say that. >> we're talking about a guy too much of a spender, we're cloning jimmy carter. yet in order to stabilize the economy -- >> the stimulus was too small and we're paying the price for that. >> we're criticizing him for spending too much. >> the stimulus package was poorly designed and rushed through. i understand the speed of it but it was poorly designed. i think only 11% is going to be spent -- >> mika, what this goes to, what they are talking about also goes to the fact this president turned too much over to nancy

pelosi, design the stimulus package, cap and trade, health care. i like henry waxman a lot, i like nancy, i worked with all of them. but if i were a moderate democrat, i sure as hell wouldn't turn my domestic policy over to them. i would design it in the white house myself. >> they are the left of america. >> here is what the president is saying we saw sunday secretary sebelius precluding this saying health care reform is a work in progress. president obama with meredith vierra says health care reform is not where it needs to be, this coming a day before his prime-time news conference where he's probably going to be making this front and center before the nation tomorrow night. it's going to be interesting to see how he characterizes how he's going to do this, even if he doesn't believe the plans now. >> we're going to break. chris has been yelling. >> is that chris? >> we all have so much to say.

this is what i don't understand. i've repeated this time and time again. the president came up with his own stimulus package. it was a package judd gregg and some republicans could have supported. it seemed to make more sense as far as pure stimulus goes, they go up to the hill, pelosi and democrats say we're not going to follow you. they say immediately, okay, you write the bill. so nancy comes up with this horrific bill created in committee by the most liberal members and it's not a stimulus package, it's a political package. most economists agree to that. it's just not targeted. we've seen the same with cap and trade, now the same with health care. why isn't the white house devising these bills, going on having prime time press conferences saying this the obama health care plan, instead of the henry waxman, ted kennedy, nancy pelosi. >> because the hardest thing to do in partisan washington is to take the risk of saying we're going to get some republicans and some democrats. you've got a majority like they do, the easy thing is to say

bring it to us. >> i think joe is right about the obama health care plan, would have loved to hear it in simple terms. at least the public could buy into that. right now they are getting confused. >> tina brown, thank you so much for being with us. coming up -- >> on ""the daily beast"" great story. >> outrageous, shows we're not in the post racial society at all. >> tina, thanks so much. see that on thedailybeast.com. rnc chairman michael steele will join us. he's going after president obama. is it for policy or politics. also we'll talk health care with the only two medical doctors in the senate, tom coburn and john barrasso. why he says their collapse was a colossal failure of common sense. first the latest headlines out of the white house with

nbc's savannah guthrie. why the president is being criticized for his wardrobe. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. (announcer) roundup extended control

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i heard they were on my jeans. >> you are married to the most fashionable woman in the world. do you want to defend the pants? >> here is my attitude. michelle, she looks fabulous. basically up until a few years ago, i only had four suits. she used to tease me because they would get really shiny. i hate to shop. those jeans are comfortable. for those of you who want your president to, you know, look great in his tight jeans, i'm sorry, i'm not the guy. >> no low riders. >> it just doesn't fit me, i'm not 20. >> yeah.

but elastic band. >> what's wrong with his jeans? >> i understand. >> apparently his jeans were biggier and frumpyer. >> baggy jeans are in. that's the look. >> fight would have been not good. >> what was the other, jordache. >> a white sox rather than all-star jacket. >> i like the fact he wasn't being down the middle and wishy washy. pick your team. >> actually, what's so funny, we know he's telling the truth about the shiny thing because whenever i campaigned, i would go to a brooks brothers outlet store. i would get three suits. i would wear them. by the end of the campaign, they were shiny. it was horrible.

>> what's with the shark skin soot. >> i think he's just fine. >> you know what chris just said in my ear. tell donny to get off the set. >> you know who wears tight jeans? savannah guthrie. >> that is awful. >> we're sorry. >> you should be. i guess chris is checking out your jeans, savannah. >> chris, how is your wife doing? he goes to vegas and comes back an animal. >> nbc white house correspondent savannah guthrie, raise the bar, please. >> please, savannah. >> i think the jeans were kind of dorky. i mean, i'll come down on it. you know the other thing he does that's nerdy. i'm going to alienate men in the audience, he clips his blackberry to his belt. >> you can't be a clipper. >> this guy is a closet engineer. >> i know. i know. i don't see the pens in the pocket but i just noticed it the

other day, actually. he was walking out to marine one, which everyone looks cool doing but with the blackberry -- >> there's nothing wrong. i would not wear jeans that look like that but i don't want a president wearing tight fitting jeans. that's modesty. seriously. >> the only one that picked up on it. >> no, keep them loose. >> at least they aren't acid washed jeans. >> anyone want to talk about health care. >> i salute the president. >> let's talk about health care, savannah. phone numbers are dropping. what's the strategy. >> this is crunch time. the strategy is all obama all the time. he has another network interview. we know he has the prime-time news conference. something interesting happened there. initially scheduled for 9:00 eastern time. then it was look k like many of the broadcast networks, not all but some of the broadcast

networks weren't sure they were going to break in for it. it's terribly expensive for networks to break in and give a free hour of television to the president. i don't know what happened behind the scenes but yesterday robert gibbs came and said we've got a time change, 8:00 eastern, which is apparently a little more palatable for broadcast networks. >> so the networks were not going to carry an address on health care reform, so we can see "jon & kate plus eight" or what? >> they made this change in time. i don't know what the negotiations were, if they saw the writing on the wall. in any event it appears they will get the coverage they want. it's important. they feel the news conference are some of the best venues the president has. obviously the questions he doesn't know in advance. he gives a 15-minute opening

statement. it's free air time. he's really pressing. they see the poll numbers, what a heavy list this is. it's only tougher in congress having talked about many, many times the congressional budget office last week. >> we've turned around some tape, this is the president on "today" talking about the state of health care reform with meredith vierra. take a listen. >> but again, not to beat a dead horse. the congressional office looking at those bills out there saying they do not contain costs. any one of those bills, would you sign them based on what you see? >> right now they are not where they need to be. but i promise you i just met with the commercial office today, so i know exactly what they are saying. what they are saying is the cost savings in those bills now, some might actually work. they are not enough to offset additional cost of bringing in 46 million new people. >> that sounds like a real

change gotten together by august, savannah. >> you know what, i actually think the president is clearer now about what he always intended. i just have a sense i think it's borne out by things he said recently that he wants the senate and house to get something done, get that initial legislation passed. i think he believes all the action will be in the conference committee but you've got to get through necessary steps. i don't think he expects perfection in these bills that would pass in the next few weeks if he gets his way, i think he thinks all will be hammered out, fixed in currency committee. it's that final bill that would be debated in the fall that he's going to insist be deficit neutral and control costs in the long-term. i think that's what he's signaling there. >> you know, mika, i think also what he's going to be signaling is what we've been saying around this table for sometime. i said early the president understands this bill does not approach the exploding health care costs over the next ten

years. we hear news this morning from the house democrats that they are talking about taking a large chunk of sur tax. they are backing off of that now. what does that mean if you're not doing to increase taxes, there are going to have to be more long-term systemic cuts. donny, i will be the first to say while i don't like government-run health care, if this president goes in and digs in, makes tough cuts, i'm not talking about poor, poor already have health care, middle class cuts, i think that takes away republicans ammunition, a lot of it at least. >> also cuts into his base. savannah, we're seeing a lot of obama. is there a possibility when the president speaks and holds a press conference, it's important. can we get too much overload where he starts to lose his

effectiveness and kind of the god-like status of that office. we see him here, meredith, then "jon & kate plus eight." i'm become facetious. is there a point they tune him out a little, obama? >> good question from the advertising guy. we did see him doing interviews every day. you wonder if it loses it's sheen, the cache, loses -- obviously that's a calculus they are aware of and have made. there's some concern in some quarters, white house they don't want to overexpose him and push this strategy too far. at the same time they feel he's the most effective advocate, nobody makes the case as well as he does. i also think there's some honesty in some quarters of the building they could have been sharper on the message.

they do want to get tougher on the message. especially status quo. i think the president tried to hit on it in the interview with meredith vierra. we have to make sure people understand, not a question of status quo, no change. there's no status quo, premiums are going to get worse, go up, get higher. that's what they are trying to fix. we'll see how they do on the message. >> savannah is so great. >> thank you. you are great. >> donny, on your point, though, it was donny deutsche. >> irrelevant, doesn't matter. >> we had matt on the president, he's here, there, everything. on this issue and others you could argue he's getting right in there. >> i think he needs an out at this point. i think behind the scenes they are like how do i get out of this. >> the thing is, though, we've talked about this on this show a great deal.

early on was he overexposing himself. i remember reagan at some point in '86, he just hit a wall and people stopped listening to him, because they said, oh, here comes the great communicator. the only thing, for this president, i don't want to be overdramatic, for this president there is no tomorrow after health care. they are not looking three or four months down the road. they have got to get something with health care, then he can go in retreat. this is not his waterloo, for the first year, it's now or never. listen to this song. our people are just on it, scary, on it. neil diamond. perhaps one of the worst neil diamond songs," forever in blue jeans." what next? >> coming up michael steele, first senate doctors are in. we'll talk with senators tom

coburn and john barrasso about this ideas to reform health care all straight ahead on "morning joe."

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do you think because health care reform will eventually help everybody that everybody should have to sacrifice. in other words if you attach a sur tax to people making $280,000 or more, isn't that, in effect, punishing the rimp? >> no, it isn't punishing the rich. the way i look at it, if i can afford to do more so a whole bunch of families have more security when i already have a security, that's part of being a community. >> you know, we really need to talk to a doctor about this. >> you know what, here is the problem. >> do you think you can get a prescription or two. >> i'm a friend of tom coburn's. so help me if you ask for ambien, this guy is not going to prescribe it to you.

he may be a dr. feel good and write prescriptions on napkins, not dr. coburn. >> i'm having trouble sleeping. >> stop it. tom coburn, a great guy. mark halperin and i were saying we wish there were more senators like tom coburn. >> speaks to power. >> republican or democrat. doctor and senator john barra o barrasso, republican from wyoming. let's start with you, john. >> are you going to ask for the prescription? >> no, i just wanted to give you perspective. >> have a nice glass of wine before you go to sleep. >> there you go. tom figured it out. that's all you're going to get. >> tom, let's start with we've been talking all morning about why the president's poll numbers are falling. why do you think that is as it pertains to health care? >> oh, i don't know. i'm not very good at that. i think people were expecting something different. people -- everybody in this

country recognizes we have a problem with health care and we need major changes. but trusting the government as the source to manage those changes is very uncomfortable with the vast majority of americans. all you have to do is look at medicare and medicaid and see how they are out of control and they have a 20% fraud rate and improper payment rate and you start wondering about that. so i don't know why -- i'm not sure the two are related, but what i do know is people don't want anybody between them and their doctor and they don't want the government highly involved in it. they want the afford ability and the prices down and we can do that without ever raising taxes on anybody and having another 84 new programs, which is in the health bill, new government programs. >> you're a man of faith. back in the '90s, everybody was wearing these what would jesus do wrist bands. i wonder, what would jesus think

about walking in to any emergency room in any urban center at 11:00 or 12:00 at night and seeing all of these moms bringing their children from poor families who don't have health care having to use emergency rooms as their primary care. is that a moral system? is there a better way to do it? how do we do it? we can't say no, can we? >> no, we shouldn't. we're not. ninety percent of those moms with kids are eligible for s-chip and we've done a lousy job signing them up. we ought to have auto enrollment. the option, since they are not signed up, not aware of the benefits of the program is they show up at the emergency room. it's a terrible place to practice medicine. there's no continuity, you don't know your patient. what we ought to be doing, we

have several programs today, let's make it work. that's the other things americans are wanting. don't change and take away the best health care system in the world, improve it. don't spend my grandkids' money running it through the government when you can, in fact, work it better by getting greater value from what we're doing today. >> senator barrasso, is there anything the president, clearly he has a time line he wants to work politically in order to get anything done on this issue, is there anything the president can do, even a smaller step on health care through the government that you think would be constructive toward fixing the problem? >> mika, we do need health care in the country. tom and i have been talking about this for 20, 25 years i've been practicing in wyoming. my wife as a breast carry survivor we know the different sides, what we need to do to make it better. it's a trillion dollar puzzle in washington. you're trying to save money but at the same time cover more people. as david broder, his

thing. not just cost but covering more people. >> we know medicare and medicaid go bankrupt. we can't be incremental in cutting costs. what tough choices do you propose in cutting the explosive rate of growth in health care? >> i don't think it's hard at all, joe. i think what you do is you create transparency in the market, one, so that you get to see what you're buying and what it costs. number two, you reconnect the purchaser of health care with some economic connection out of

their own pocket, which oftentimes we have not. once you create that transparency and you also create transparency in terms of quality, all of a sudden we'll have the economic reason to make a decision. we know that one out of every $3 spent in health care today doesn't help anybody get well and doesn't prevent anybody getting sick. certainly we can do better than that. >> all right. we want to thank the stars of a new show, the senate doctor show, senator tom coburn and senator john barrasso, thank you very much. >> watch us today, senate doctors. see you then, 4:00. >> all right. we'll be there. thank you so much. he was in pr, by the way, before he went to medical school. >> definitely. the doctors are in. >> the doctors are in and i'm going to twitter them, too. i'm going to follow them. >> tom coburn's twitter, i'm sure he does not do it himself, somebody on his staff does it? are you on his -- you need to. constantly every wasteful item in the federal government, it

just pops up. they say, like, you know, $75,000 for an oyster eating contest. all these bizarre pork barrel projects. >> i'm joining you. coming up next rnc chairman michael steele taking aim at president obama straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪

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president obama is conducting an experiment, a

dangerous experiment with with health care and a reckless experiment with the economy, reckless experiment -- expectment -- and the obama experiments are not working. >> okay. i guess we got our point there. reckless experiment. with us now, the man behind those words, chairman of the national committee, michael steele. reckless and risky, is that fair given the fact a lot of people feel we have an issue with health care that needs to be resolved. >> well, my view is it is risky, there are a lot of unknowns the administration is not beginning to get into. and it's grab a little, you know, tax the rich here, and

let's grab as much health care as we can there, and experimentation that is just not going to work. >> fair enough. we are asking the same questions here. having said that, can you really come up with an alternative that has absolutely no risk and complete costs -- this is >> what you just described is utopia. everything is going to have a risk to it that >> that's my point. >> the key is the approach you take to the risk. you are trying to rush through a major overhaul, 1/6 of our economy, you are going to put it in place in six weeks. you are looking at the medicare system and you just can't get it

done. these folks on capitol hill don't even read the legislation. >> michael steele, it's danny deutsch. give me one example, and say here is what i would do. >> i will give you three. you got portability, making pit easy so they can make it from one place to the other, and let's go into the marketplace and get the best health care for the employees, and then number three, the people who do not have an employer at the time can deduct their health care if they go through player employer, and then let's talk tort reform. how do you do reform of the

health care system without dealing with one of the biggest contributors to the cost. >> i agree with you on all four points, and can you add them up and none of them are going to take care of the overriding issue, and that's the fact that health care costs so quickly, and medicare goes bankruptcy -- i love you, but be careful, those four issues will not cut costs. >> you are absolutely wrong. >> joe --. >> are you telling me -- hold on a second. if we took those two -- >> spare me. >> spare you? >> yes, if you do tort reform you are not going to cut costs? you just said those four things will not cut costs, and they will. >> no, listen to me. i will ask it again. how do those four steps take care of the cost challenges we

have over the next 10 years and stop medicare and medicaid from going bankrupt? >> that's a separate piece of the puzzle. you are talking about the overall costs. i will ask you a question. you are right, those things may not contribute to reducing the cost of medicaid and medicare. that administration is not telling you they are planning to cut medicaid or medicare by $400,000 -- >> i am not being clear obviously. the major challenge in the economy, the major challenge facing health care is the explosion of health care cost as baby boomers move toward retirement. and let me be clear, the costs will triple the economy. my question is a simple one.

what republican plan is there to address the systematic challenges that will crush medicare and the systems and the economy? >> there are features within the medicaid and medicare program that can be addressed with respect to costs. members in both the house and senate, republicans and democrats have proposed the foe tu features over the last few years. i am with you, joe. we may sound like we are on opposite sides here, but i am agreeing with you to the extent these needs to be addressed in terming with the systemic issues. and my thing is, we want to get this done in two weeks or four weeks, and you cannot address those costs, whether it's in medicaid or some other area of

health care. >> wait a minute. your great aunt or migrate aunt needs hip replacement surgery needs hip replacement when she was 87 years old -- >> do you want me telling your great aunt that? >> no, i want you to -- >> do you want me to make that decision? if you and your great aunt want that surgery, you should be able to get it. >> so we get whatever we want? >> well, how do you get to the cost without rationing health care. i am afraid that's what we are on to here. >> are you saying if you are 87 and you want it and you get it or insurance companies pay for it, which means you and -- >> if you want the government to make that decision for you and

your aunt, god bless you, but i don't. >> are you saying 25% of the health care cost -- >> no, that's part of the discussion we need to have. we are not going to have it if we are going to do legislation in two weeks. >> i agree with you there. >> that's my point. you cannot solve or come to a reasonable conclusion on that issue in two weeks. >> i agree with you. rushing this legislation is, i think, politically reckless. at the same time, just saying no and not having a long term approach also politically reckless. >> and nobody is just saying no. stop it. nobody is just saying no. we are saying let's take a closer look at what we should be doing. republicans in the house and senate put a myriad of proposals on the table. you just had the doctors on your

program talking about proposals, and nobody is saying no. let's stop that political talking point. and regardless of how you characterize that over haul, it's a major over haul in two weeks, when you have members of the united states congress not even reading the relegislation. >> my bigger point is this is not a talking point, it's a political class that does not want to answer that tough question of how -- >> i disagree with you. i disagree with you. i think both classes want to answer that. >> we have to make tough choices, but i think steel's reaction is who at the end of the day will make a decision in the last year of life. how does that -- play that threw. >> we have to go. but guess what? we have no choice.

we have no choice. we are going bankrupt. our health care system is collapsing. >> i am not willing to give my choices over to the federal government. i'm sorry. >> i am not either. i am not either. >> if you can stay with us, stay with us. coming up, pulitzer prize winner, eugene robinson. michael steele, thanks very much. undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather

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welcome back to "morning joe." if joe is in new york, it's raining. >> of course. >> we have with us the great donny deutsch. and the adequate mark and also michael steele. >> that was a good conversation. >> also, we have eugene robinson. we need to take a poll, is joe talking too much this morning. >> no. >> i should go back to vacation. i am too wound up. >> the sun would come back out. >> you know, one guy said he

actually missed you. >> i am gone for a while, and i read all this stuff and i come back and i have a lot to say. >> he gets excited. >> and mika is not as happy when you are not here. >> i am a broken woman. >> joe, she is not the same woman when you are not here. >> she is much better. >> she is amazing, but there is a certain twinkle -- >> you are making me uncomfortable. let's get with the news. what is in the news? time for a look at today's top stories. administration officials say they will not meet the self imposed deadline for reviewing the interrogation and detention delays. most of the delay focuses on dozens of detainees at

guantanamo bay. meanwhile, president obama said the military it is doing everything it could to find the soldier taken by taliban forces. and then july is the single deadliest month in the eight-year war in afghanistan. 30 troops have died including four killed this time yesterday. and president obama is pushing health care. and the president is saying health care is still a work in progress. >> again, the congressional subject utah office looking at the bills that are out there and

saying they cannot contain costs. any bill, would you sign them? >> right now, they are not where they need to be. i just met with the congressional budget office today and i know what they are saying, and what they are saying is the cost savings in those bills right now, some of them may actually work, but they are not enough to offset the additional costs of bringing in $46 million new people. >> all right. that was from the "today" show. michael steele is still with us. >> also with us here now, editor and pulitzer prize winning columnists, eugene robinson, and also a msnbc political analysts. >> jean, there seems to be a lot of false deadlines. we are going to shut down gitmo, and pass health care reform by august recess. it seems like some of the things

are driven by pure politics, and shouldn't the president slow down and catch his breath and take a more rational and reasonable approach? >> well, first, joe, assuming legislation does get passed, nobody will remember whether it's passed in august or in october, or a year from now. that's not going to be the important thing that goes down in history. but with that said, it's not as if this is a new issue for washington. and, you know, you talk about false deadlines. guantanamo, the deadline was set at year, which certainly at the time, and to me, frankly, still seemed like plenty of time, a generous allotment of time, and then even the decision was made to announce it was closing for reasons of america's standing in the world. >> but they are looking at the facts and saying this is a lot tougher than it was going to be. >> uh-huh. >> which is what we said what

was going to happen. and they see that, and say we cannot figure it out, but we are going to close it by january. come on! >> well, obviously they will have to figure out a way to do it. you cannot shut it down if there are people still in it. >> even if it's not the safest thing to do? >> what are they going to find to do with the people a month after the deadline that they cannot figure now. you can bring them here and put them on trial. find a third country to take them. but it seems to me the year was not an unreasonable time to work it out, and it seems like they still have time to do it. now, on health care, again, we have been talking about this since the truman administration, and it's not as if they are new issues. but does it matter a month here or there? i was fascinated by your logic

in the last segment, which i actually found impeccable, joe. what could i say? but it seems to me that where it leads you is actually toward a more thorough over haul of the health care system. >> i have been saying that every day on this show for the last six months, we cannot do what feels good. we have to make tough choices. michael steele, i know you have to go, but quickly, false deadlines, we are going to shut down gitmo by january, and pass it now without reading the bill, and health care, and it seems like the democrats are playing right into your hands? >> that's the crux of my only point here today with respect to all of that, this administration came in and threw a lot of balls in the air and are trying to

catch them all at the same time. and guantanamo, and health care, and they need to take time. you can't say you are going to close it and say i don't know where we are going to put everybody. if you don't pass the stimulus now the economy collapses, and they have only spent 10% of the money. all of this is needed and you are going to get it down in six weeks. i think there needs to be a step-back approach, and a more deliberate look at the issues that jean, rightly points out, have been around since the truman administration, but have not been solved. they need to tackle them, just not the way they are tackling them. >> it's great to talk to you, friend. are you still my friend? >> absolutely. but i like mika better. >> who doesn't! come on, that's my life.

>> and what is with the big soldier pads on the suit? >> those are not shoulder pads -- >> donny, those are his shoulders, honey. >> well, i don't know where the resentment comes from deutsch here, and i think it's pure jealousy. >> yeah, sounds like there is a little envy there. >> does the president play in their hands with the rush, rush, rush. >> he has to. democrats have to survive the mid-term elections. he could pass a majority in the

house. >> so this is more about he knows the stimulus is not going to create jobs -- as many jobs as he needs by the mid-term, so he has to have something like health care reform to take to the voters, right? >> not only that. but he is not in the office for politics, he is in the office to make the country better as he envisions. >> would you say that about george w. bush? >> absolutely. one of the things he wants to complete is health care -- >> of course he has to do it this year and of course it's politics, but if this is what he believes in, he knows if it doesn't happen now it's never going to happen. i would do the same thing. >> and you can actually pass important things election years. >> yeah, but look at the calendar, joe. you were in congress. and you know that that was a highly unusual thing to have

done, getting health care through during an election year, and getting welfare reform during election year. it will not happen with health care. you have to go for it the first year if you want to get it done. try to put the pieces back together later. i don't see the alternative, and if you were pretd and wanted to do health care you, would do it the first year, too. >> sure. joe, you are like why is he doing it? any smart businessman and leader and ceo would do the same thing. >> i would hope that i would take charge of health care early enough, and have my own approach instead of letting various far left of center leaders on the hill define them. >> i don't disagree with that. >> i think that's a valid point, joe. i think you can question -- you can question the tactic of

saying, okay, congress work it out within these broad parameters, and, you know, come up with something and i will just sign it. i think that you could argue at this point the president should have come in sooner with his own plan eventually, if only to take some of the political heat on issues that are -- that congress is having to work out. i think in essence that's what he is going to have to do now. >> is it too late? >> he will come out and say it has to be x, y, z people. >> if the ball was in your court now, and we are all throwing rocks, and we all agree and we have to help as many people as we can, and we cannot keep

escalating the costs, and the ball is in your court, and what do we do, sir? >> i make the argument about the 47 million. i paint this as a moral failing of this country to have failed to provide adequate health care and health insurance and protection from financial ruin because of health care costs to so many people in this country, and it's outrageous, and that must end. i think that my -- it's a moral question. my b appeal has to be, at this point, more credible cost containment, and i don't quite know how i get to that. >> you know how you cut costs? you cut costs by cutting costs. rationing.

>> no, what you would do is channel together, some of the good doctors from the set, and you get 20 brilliant people and sit in a room for a week and go here are the 30 things that are going away, and this is the council -- that's the only way at the end of the day. >> well, we have a moral problem, and we have a problem with math. morally, it's immoral that 47 million americans don't have health insurance. >> that's easy to say. >> i can write a check and take care of that tomorrow, and unfortunately the whole system collapses in 7 to 10 years. that's the problem. and michael steele says and everybody says, we can't tell people they can't have something when they are 87, or we can't tell people they can't have their fifth mri in five or six years. guess what? when i say we have no choice, i

mean we have no choice. >> would you vote for that if you were in the house and you thought you would lose your seat if you did? >> as i said from the beginning, if you have a wholistic approach to this, if you say we will take care of the moral issue and math issue, and i would go back to the district and explain it, and be reelected. back in 1996, we cut medicare and we were accused for a year of throwing old people out on the streets, and i went back in '96 and did nothing but explain to people in florida why i had to do it, and guess what, i got 87% of the votes. and clinton said we were trying to cut taxes for the rich by throwing old people out of the hospitals. and i went home and explained it, and the american people are

much smarter than pun dunts in washington thought they were. i said that with a smile. >> i am going. i think i am being too intense. and lawrence mcdonneald wil be here. you are watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

if we are able to stop

obama on this, it will break him. >> they said over the weekend, we just want to keep on delaying and delaying this thing, because we think this will be obama's waterloo. and we can break him. >> what is he talking about? >> i think what he is talking about is there is a certain portion of the republican party that spews this like they saw '93, '94. there are folks that think they should dust off the play book. what they don't recognize is this is not about me. this is about the american people. >> it's about the president's ability to get it done. >> if republicans could only be more like democrats like where they were in president bush's tenure, and reach out and say, mr. president, how can we help you? >> with us now, the member of

the financial committee, senator widen, in a bipartisan group sent a letter to senate leaders asking for more time to work up a health care over haul plan. thank you for being with us. i think we could agree more time is necessary to have a good plan that cuts costs. but does the president have time? >> understand this moderate group of centers agreed with the president's timetable. we want to get this done this year. but what we are talking about is making sure that we actually hold down costs and provide choices, and maintain quality, and what you ought to be doing is shoring up the center. it often seems, and joe knows this, the political spaces are spoiling for a fight, but good policy can be made with moderates coming together. we have a big group in the senate that wants to get that done on the president's

timetable, this year. >> and many signed this. ron, what are some of the compromises the moderate group of centers think need to be achieved for the health care to pass this year? >> the main thing is holding down premiums, people want to know two things. what is going to be done to hold down my premiums? and what will be done to make sure that i have more choices, choices in particular like members of congress have like you can be part of a big group and hold down the administrative costs and address peoples' needs. that's what we are focused on. what it all comes down to is rewarding individuals when they make a wise selection of their health care.

>> cake me through aunt's that has a problem? >> what we are going to do is go to something, and this is bipartisan as well with senator gregg called shared decision making. these are all difficult decisions. you are highlighting it for people in their 80s. if you walk people through the choices, so they understand what is at stake, very often, they will say i am interested in this particular service. it may not be the most expensive, but it's going to help me best meet my needs. these are tough choices. we need to get beyond the situation. the republicans say it's the trial lawyer's fault, and what we have done in our legislation with 14 senators is say both of them have to accept changes that they resisted. >> it's not just people in their 80s, but people in their 50s that are getting too many mris,

and how can you tell people across the board you can get whatever you want, but at some point you have to pay for what you want so the rest of us don't. >> the tax laws in effect are regressive and encourage inefficiency. what a big group of senators would like to do there is get rid of that and instead have a significant across the board tax credit, where people in effect would have a financial incentive for shopping wisely, and then for example, you find a health care plan that is a little bit expensive than the one you are paying for now, you get a financial incentive for shopping. >> if i had a headache and i thought for the fourth time in a couple years that i was going to have an aneurism like my uncle buddy, and to just stay home and take advil and work through it.

>> in those kinds of instances, joe, i will not play doctor. what i do know, when you have a system that focuses on primary care like hours, it gives people a financial incentive to say, hey, i will think about whether i want that extra tests. it could come out of my pocket, and they will make a better decision. >> i like what he is saying, and it may not be perfect, but he has answers. >> senator, thank you very much. >> good luck. >> let's do it again. coming up, investors will be listening to what ben bernanke is saying to the committee. and also mark haines joins us. you are watching "morning joe." my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea

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welcome back to morning joe. a beautiful, beautiful day in new york city. let's get a look at business before the bell with mr. sunshine himself, mr. mark haines. mark, this is a special moment for me. it's like the peaches and herb song, "reunited," and it feels good. took talking to you, my friend. how are you?

>> i am fine. i am fine. >> how are you feeling today? feeling okay? feeling all right? >> feeling a little apprehensive here. >> a little vulnerable right now? needing to talk through anything? >> not used to being treated so nicely. makes me wonder. >> here to help you? >> always have been, joe. >> as you told me when we hug, you care too much, joe. >> when i am standing on a walk and i see a bus coming, i always look to see you are not standing behind me. we have the futures doing nicely. we are going to go up. this will be about two things today. one is earnings. and more than earnings revenue, like dupont, it reported its earnings earlier this morning and exceeded wall street estimates. good news, right? well, not really, because the revenues missed dramatically. they made the number by cutting

costs and things like that, and the revenue, you know, you can fudge how much goes into the profit column, but you did not fudge how much is going into the cash register, not without lying. and what we are seeing here is a pattern where companies are making their numbers only by cutting costs. and it's great that they make their numbers, but it's worry some, i guess that's the best word. coke reports today. and caterpillar, a big national. and dupont, the numbers did not look good. and on capitol hill today is the testimony from bernanke, and he cannot just go up and address a joint meeting and, do it once, no, he has to go to the house, and he has to go to the senate.

and he has to go and say the exact same thing the next day. >> mark, it gets done. >> and the wall street journal today, bernanke on the fed's exit strategy, trying to insure people we will not have a burst of inflation because we are pumping money into the system. >> what a great interaction between you two? >> yeah, i miss him. >> okay. and we'll be back with lawrence mcdonald. you are watching "morning joe." ♪

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part of what gets me frustrated is when i hear some of the banks are resisting the idea of a consumer finance

protection agency that we have put forward to make sure that banks can't take advantage of people with preditory loans. and when i say hear banks saying we don't need regulation, i think they are having selected memory there. welcome back to "morning joe," a live look at las vegas with us this morning. and with us this morning, lawrence mcdonald, a author of "a colossal failure."

>> the one thing about the story that is so compelling, we had so many talented people in the middle of the ship really calling out warnings, and the men kind of in the ivory tower so to speak up on the 31st floor, ignored so many warnings. >> why? >> because they were in a position of the new members of the billionaire's club, and involved in art collections, and a lot of human resources events and disconnected where the cannonball slides. >> explain why this is not monday morning quarterbacking. is this one of many they were ignoring, or was there a consensus to turn the ship

around, we are heading for the iceberg. >> well, you did your job or you basically got taken out. keep your head down or lose your job. and there were people that were squashed like grapes trying to stop this madness. >> give me an example? >> alex kirk was right there, and mike alban. a number of people tried to stop it. this is one of the first stories that brings main street deep inside of wall street. this is the largest bankruptcy in the history of the united states, and this book really puts the reader in the front row seat. >> the difference was lehman was not capitalized as well and did it to enhance greed. he went down with the ship.

and he was not one guy making money while everybody else was losing money, and he could have saved the ship. how could he have done it? >> well, a lot of people don't realize, but there were long term tensions between hank and richard. he was a life-time paper trader. and hank paulson was a lifetime bankers, and those two don't mix that well. and a number of people didn't realize that there was a dinner, and the consensus was it was a warm and fuzzy meeting, where they got along. my research shows this was a tense meeting. at one point, alex lectured hank paulson. >> a lot of people said it was a paulson vendetta, and it was because of the personal friction, that almost brout down the economy, and a lot of people

are pointing their finger at paulson. >> yeah, i want to get that across in this interview, this bankruptcy hurt so many common people out there. 6.5 million jobs have been lost in the recession, and 2 million were a direct result of the lehman brothers. and it emanates on the 31st floor. >> how do you get that? >> well, lehman filed in september, and probably north of 2 million. it's a tragedy, so many people tried to stop this. i think the book brings the reader, deep, deep, inside the wall street. >> a personal vendetta may have been the reason why lehman was the one bank allowed to die? >> yeah, and lehman, it was hank

paulson's vendetta? >> well, lehman requested to become a bank holding company in the days before the bankruptcy, and they were told no, and the days after the bankruptcy, goldman sachs and morgan stanley were allowed to become bank holding companies. a lot of mysterious things. >> beyond the bonus situation, what do you make of the fact that goldman sachs is still standing and doing better than ever. there were choices being made here obviously. >> well, it just doesn't add up. it's a real bizarre thing that took place. this is -- i don't want to say cheery picking, but in a lot of ways, in september of 2008, paulson and bernanke were running around the icu, unplugging one ban sxk plugging in the next. >> where did paulson used to

work? >> goldman sachs. >> oh, yeah, i was trying to figure that out. >> and goldman sachs was always seen to be the golden cow on wall street. and i remember bailing out the mexic mexican peso, but it was really about bailing out golden sacks. >> yeah, there were a lot of strange things that went on. i want the common person to know what happened on wall street. we have had a lot of support from so many people inside of lehman brothers. >> when were you vice president there? >> 2004 to 2008. >> where were you in the mid-ship or front ship? >> well, one of my moto is there

is no "i" in team. and you cannot believe the one horrific thing that i learned by peeling back the onion, people did not understand so much of what happened. >> before we go to break, will we get e-mails from people saying this clown, he got rich and never issued warnings and ignored the warnings as well. >> if you talk to anybody i worked with, i made a ton of money on the short side. you had traders hedged against this. we were making money. >> but did you issue a warning? >> well, i was not at the level to issue warnings. and you just don't walk-up to duck, and -- if you keep your head down at lehman brothers? >> are you saying you kept your head down? >> yeah, i kept my head down and

did my job. >> my direct supervisor put together a number of great reports. and there were also people, lawrence lindsay was constantly putting out warnings. i consider myself a informed lehmanite. >> i will read this. the book is "a colossal failure," and coming up next, singer, chris brown. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick

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and i'm joni. we've been best friends since we were two. we've always been alike. we even both have osteoporosis. but we're active. especially when we vacation. so when i heard about reclast, the only once-a-year iv osteoporosis treatment, i called joni. my doctor said reclast helps restrengthen our bones to help make them resistant to fracture. and reclast is approved to help protect from fracture in more places: hip, spine, even other bones. (announcer) you should never take reclast if you're on zometa, have low blood calcium, kidney problems. or you're pregnant, plan to become pregnant or nursing.

take calcium and vitamin d daily. tell your doctor if you develop severe muscle, bone or joint pain or if you have dental problems, as rarely, jaw problems have been reported. the most common side effects include flu-like symptoms, fever, muscle or joint pain and headache. nothing strengthens you like an old friendship. but when it comes to our bones, we both look to reclast. you've gotta ask your doctor! or call 1-866-51-reclast. year-long protection for on-the-go women. i wish i had the chance to live those few moments again. but i cannot. and i cannot sit here and make excuses. i take great pride in me being able to exercise self-control and what i did was inexcusable. i am sad and ashamed of what i have done. i told rihanna countless times and telling you today that i was

truly saury that i was not able to handle the situation differently and better. >> you buying it? >> i oiain't buying it. it's not going to hurt his career. >> you are not buying it. what he did was horrific, and cowardly, but in the world of music, one could even insanely argue pathetically, and it raises his wealth. it's sad. >> with us, an nbc contributor, and "rolling stone" contributor. does donny speak the truth? is this guy coming back? >> yeah, i have seen the chris brown fans arguing, what are you talking about? we did not see a picture of chris? what did she say to do this?

>> is he coming back? >> one record away. >> there is a gangster world. >> when you beat up an individual, you think there would be a price to pay in the public eye. >> you would think. >> let's not be part of his come back and move on. tell me about the harvard professor. >> his door is broken down, and he goes in his home and the office comes and says give me some i.d., and prove it's your home, and he gets upset. and the officer says in his own police report i did not understand why he was so upset with the questions. and somehow he ends up getting

arrested. >> he had his harvard i.d., and they still arrest him. >> yeah, and before he even showed the i.d., the officer already surmised, this is his home. you remember what malcolm x did, what is the black man with the ph, but can't say the d. black president, and racism is over? it's still here! this can happen anytime, anywhere at anytime. i am sitting at home last night afraid, and anything could happen, and the cops could come in. being a black man in america, you know, it's kau kauesque. >> it's an isolated incident. >> isolated innocent? >> it doesn't happen a lot. new this happens a lot. it could happen to me, and it

could happen to carlos. >> all right. way got to go. thank you very much. we should talk about that more. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. we'll be right back. (announcer) illness doesn't care where you live... ...or if you're already sick... ...or if you lose your job. your health insurance shouldn't either. so let's fix health care. if everyone's covered, we can make health care as affordable as possible. and the words "pre-existing condition" become a thing of the past... we're america's health insurance companies. supporting bipartisan reform that congress can build on.

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this is the time where we talk about what we learned today

what did we learn today? >> your favorite episode. >> what did you learn? >> my name will be donnay. >> you just moved your own message there, good job. >> he did not mean what he said about an isolated incident. >> most cops are good, that's what i meant to say. my grandfather was a cop. >> it's a tough thing when you are a black man. >> i learned from andrew, who wanted me to tell everybody, the director's cut of "watchman" is out today. i have no idea what that means.

if it is too early, what time is it, mika? >> it's time for "morning joe." and now it's time for the "morning meeting." >> oh, mika, she is so gracious. i have a meeting. he is going to jump on me. i will get out of this choir -- get out of here and get lost. i will get out of the chair, and it will be my prowrestling. that could be fun, actually. last time you were here, you tackled me, do you remember that? my lower back is still recovering. >> i way about 500 pounds. what people don't realize -- >> did you drink out of my coffee cup? take this with you, and bring me back a coffee cup that does not have your lip marks all over it. >> i am just standing here.

good morning to you, my name is dylan. ignore the peanut gallery. welcome to the meeting, and have a nice day, gentlemen. and now, classic black and white, democrat and republican. the only problem, that doesn't help anybody in america, does it? and there may be a shocking solution, god forbid. we will try to talk about how to solve these problems. and too big to fail, meanwhile. if they do, taxpayers are the responsible party, and it only costs our homeowners and children, and grandparents, and if you make a bank so big it does allow you to bonus yourself a billion each year. and then millions in stimulus cash to buy things like boiled ham.

a little recovery.gov action. we have to take our hat off to the obama administration for opening up the can of worms. could a solution to california's cash crunch not only be marijuana legalization, but oil drilling, and drugs and drilling to get california out of the hole as the legislature reach as plan. radical solutions being discussed. it's time to get to work. although we like to have a little bit of fun with this, but the meeting starts right now. welcome. nice to see you. we are coming to you live inside of an isolated and studio-like environment. it's sterile, but what the heck, we can talk. health care is the subject. the democrats are trying to sell a version of health care. the republicans tryingo