are, this is how close we are. but there are a few questions. he said, and even he did it, he said, let me repeat, you are not going to lose your health care if you like the coverage that you have. well, we don't know that yet. because we don't know what kind of mandate will be on employers. what if employers decide to drop coverage? which has been one of the what-ifs. and i'll also know, he said, here's all the plans and what they have in common. well, andrea, there is one gigantic plan we don't know about yet, and that's the one that's going to come from max baucus and chuck grassley out of the finance committee, and one could argue, we only have about a 45-hour window for them to come out with the plan for the senate to even have a shot of passing something before the recess. >> and when i talked to senator grassley yesterday and senator conrad on that committee, what they're talking about is a $200 billion hole that has not been filled. and no agreement on how to pay for it and a lot of resistance to the house version, which has

the surtax on the wealthy. >> that's right. and i think that, you know, i am interested in this meeting that the president's going to have with the house blue dogs today, for a couple of reasons, but i think namely, this is a chance for him to test out what could get through the senate. right, because he can get probably something -- you know, he could probably get something that couldn't get through the senate past the house. you might be able to get these surcharges at simply $300,000 levels or whatever. he can probably get that through the house, but it's a nonstarter in the senate. i think he's probably trying to figure out, what's the level of taxation, frankly, that the blue dogs could live with before they sign on. and if you could get them to sign on, then these conservative democrats from arkansas, louisiana, nebraska are more likely to sign on. and you brought up a good point. the fact that chuck grassley is still in the room, that is a big trump card max baucus has.

his is the only plan left that seems to have republicans still negotiating. >> before i let you go, chuck, we shouldn't overlook the fact that the president did just win one. he and bob gates, his defense secretary, just won the cancellation of the f-22, despite all of the vested interests and despite unemployment in areas, they pushed back against the narrative that this would increase unemployment in those districts and they had an interesting vote. senator robert byrd voting for the first time out of the hospital, showed up on the floor. one more democrat. he, of course, voted against the president, i should point out. >> of course. he would never vote against pork. >> former chairman of the senate appropriations, the committee. >> the president had one ally that i don't think the ally he realized he was, and that was john murtha. i think all of the controversy surrounding john murtha and defense contracts in general i think helped galvanize and make

it a little bit easier to find a majority in congress to say, you know, don't mess around with these defense contractors right now. the penalty for being with them might be greater than the penalty for being against them right now. >> exactly right. chuck todd, thank you so much from the white house. where all the action is today. we'll be looking forward later in the day to hearing more about those meetings at the white house today as the president continues to twist arms. as we just pointed out, the senate just voted to strip funding out of the military budget bill that would have set aside nearly $2 billion for the f-22 fighter jet program. the president had threatened to veto the entire defense spending bill if that funding was included. and he said just moments ago that any money spent on the f-22 program would have been money taken away from u.s. troops. >> i'm grateful that the senate just voted against an additional $1.75 billion to buy f-22 fighter jets that military

experts and members of both parties say we do not need. at a time when we're fighting two wars and facing a serious deficit, this would have been an inexcusable waste of money. >> ron brownstein is the atlantic media political director. ron joins us now, fresh from vacation. great to see you. >> great to be back. >> and you come back to the same wars we're fighting over defense spending and health care, but this was a very interesting vote, indeed, in that the president actually won one, cutting the defense budget. >> well, look, in many ways, the democrats since taking unified control in january, have showed that they learned some lessons from the 12 years of being out of power, and they have been more willing to come together on tough votes than they were in the first two years of the bill clinton presidency. but the big test of that is still awaiting as health care moves down the track. but certainly on some of these preliminary issues, democrats have been willing to take some tough votes in the interest of producing a record of

accomplishment. they can take to voters in 2012. certainly balanced more in that direction than they did during the first two clinton years. >> but let's talk about whether the democrats and the democratic caucus really is afraid of this president. a david brooks column today in "the new york times," taking the president to task for yielding too much to the liberal house members on the writing of the health care bill. and also saying that he's not feared, according to brooks, machiavelli said a leader should be feared as well as loved, obama is loved by the democratic chairman, but he's not feared. on health care, obama has emphasized cost control. the chairman flouted his priorities because they don't fear him. >> i don't know if obama is feared, but i think the period in the wilderness is feared. and i think what obama has increasingly argued in private to democrat that is the lesson of bill clinton's first two years is that no matter how fast you row or no matter how hard you try to separate yourself from me, if i am seen as a failure, you will ultimately pay the cost in these 2010 elections. and i think that argument does have some sway.

i mean, the paradox we're in is that in many ways, the moderate democrats who have been the most resistant, especially in the house, but also in the senate, to some of the things that obama wants to do, first on cap and trade, now potentially on health care, have the most to fear if his support crumble, because they will be the first one taken away by a backlash in 2010. i was sure that was one -- he has raised that argument in private before. it would not be surprising if he makes an argument like it again. you know, he said in public in the last 48 hours, using jim demint as pushing off against the comments from the republican senator, that republicans are hoping to kill health care to precipitate the same kind of downward spiral that ultimately took democrats out of control in 1994. and i think that that, again, is an argument -- whether or not they fear him, they certainly fear a repeat of that experience. >> well, some might say that they are taking a different lesson from that, that they're taking the lesson that to take the risk of going for either the taxes or the employer benefit taxation, that any of these measures on health care could

lead to those who are in marginal districts losing. >> and that really is the fundamental question, is is inaction or action riskier? i think that the lesson of '94 is that failing to govern is the greatest risk. ultimately, in 1994, democrats in marginal districts made that calculation. it was too tough to vote for health care, too tough to vote for the crime bill. and in trying to separate themselves from clinton, they cut out the floor from the entire caucus. this time obama has the opportunity for something different, but, again, he has to hold them for some very difficult votes. >> and one of the ways he's trying to hold them is to put pressure on them. this is an example of the new media use by the white house. the president in a conference call with liberal bloggers, let's listen to what he had to say to them last night. >> i also think it's important just to keep the pressure on members of congress, because what happens is there is a -- there is a default position of

inertia here in washington, and pushing against that, making sure that people feel that the desperation that ordinary families are feeling all across the country every day, when they're worrying about whether they can pay their premiums or not or how to deal with a loss of insurance when they lose their job, people have to feel that. and you guys can help deliver that than just about everybody. >> i mean, that tells you everything you need to know about where his focus is and the tools that they're using to try to rally. >> i really feel that fits in with a lot of other things we've seen in the last 48 hours, where obama seems to be trying to steel congressional democrats to move ahead on health care without significant republican participation if necessary. yesterday they began running ads more positive than negative about reform, obama went out and sharply criticized the insurance companies, the column by e.j. '

dionne, during that call with bloggers, resurfacing the idea of reconciliation as a fallback in the senate with only 51 votes. warning that republicans see this as a chance to undo the democratic majority, this all seems designed to get democrats in a place where they will -- as to use your phrase, use your frame, they will view inaction as more dangerous than action. >> but going back to david brooks, is the white house blowing it by not dealing with cost containment? by moving too far to the left on what they're willing to support and not going to the middle and not crafting something that has real cost containment? >> i think, clearly, the administration believes that the bill so far from the more liberal committees, have not gone as far in the direction of cost containment as the president himself proposed. we are at the point of health care reform that can be scripted by samuel beckett. we're waiting for baucus. i thought the most interesting thing today was by some of the blue dogs in the house who said,

we don't necessarily want to go forward and vote until we know where the senate is going, and that means everyone is waiting for some word from the finance committee before this really crystallizes -- >> they don't want to go out on a limb and have it cut out -- >> they don't want to go out on a limb. so the focus on that senate finance committee, just as in 1994, it becomes a critical fulcrum on whether health care can move forward or whether it's going to go off the rails. . >> as yogi berra would say, deja vu all over again. and stay with msnbc for complete coverage of president obama's prime-time speech, a news conference, in fact, tomorrow night. coverage kicks off at 7:00 eastern on "hardball." the president speaks at 8:00 when he meets with the white house press. and live post-game analysis immediately following. watch it all here on msnbc, the place for politics. and coming up next, republican senator judd gregg on why he says the white house is acting irresponsibly by putting health care on the fast track while putting a key budget

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president obama delivered a clear message today to his opponents who are trying to derail and delay the health care overhaul. >> those in this town who openly declare their intention to block reform. it's a familiar washington script that we've seen many times before. these opponents of reform would rather score political points than offer relief to americans who have seen premiums double and costs grow three times faster than wages. >> republican senator judd gregg is the ranking member of the budget committee. senator, thanks so much for joining us. let me play for you some audio of a conference call with senator jim demint, a republican

colleague of yours, during this conference call, and whether the president has a point about what his political opponents are saying. let's listen. >> i can almost guarantee you this thing won't pass before august. and if we can hold it back until we go home for a month's break in august, people will figure out what's in it. they'll get outraged all across the country and then senators and congressmen will come back in september afraid to vote against the american people. if we're able to stop obama on this, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. >> is that the republican party's posture, to try to break the president? >> of course not. you know, i mean, jim just speaks for himself there. a lot of us just want to do this right. and we're getting independent analysis of these proposals now, especially the house proposal and the kennedy bill that came out of the kennedy committee, that those bills do not accomplish what we want to accomplish. we've seen the cbo say that

they're going to significantly increase the cost of government, probably raise the debt significantly, and then all the people that don't get covered, $4 million under the senate bill don't get covered. and you've now seen the mayo clinic and independent arbitragers come out and say they don't think this is the right way to proceed. and we're all in agreement as to where we want to go, get everybody covered, make sure you have a plan today that you like, you get to keep it. i've made a proposal in that area, senator coburn says they have made a proposal, there's a bipartisan proposal from senator wieden and senator bennett, which i'm a cosponsor of which does that. so my view is, hey, let's do this right. we don't have to get it done by the beginning of august. this is going to affect every american. we certainly don't want to create a massive cost to our country that can't be afforded and that radically increases the debt. rather, let's approach this in an intelligent and thoughtful way. let's take a step back, as david broder said, a liberal columnist, and one of the most

respected in the country, and take a look at this and make sure we do it right. >> i'm not sure that i would accept the characterization of david broder as a, quote, liberal columnist, i think he's just a really fine reporter down the middle. but let's take it from there. where would you raise the money? let's take senator grass hawale estimate that there's a $200 billion hole in this proposal right now. how would you raise that money? >> i believe if you need to raise money, and my view is that with all this money we have in our health care system, we spend 17% of our gross national product on health care, we probably don't need to raise a lot of more money, we just need to spend the money we have more effect live. so if you're going to raise money, raise it from within the health care arena. so i would limit the deductibility of high-end premium and insurance plans so people working in a restaurant in new hampshire aren't underwriting an insurance plan that may cost $17,000, $18,000,

$0,000, which happens today when it's fully deductible. so i would limit the upper end of deductibility on insurance plans, say $17,000. that generates a huge amount of revenue in the long run and the short run and gets the question of where do you get the revenue. >> senator, i wanted to ask you about the delay in the midyear review. the white house economic report usually come outs in july. the white house now says it's going to be delayed. they say it's just that they haven't gotten it all together yet. do you see a different scenario here? what are you suggesting? >> well, the midyear review is supposed to be out by july 15th, basically supposed to tell us where you are, and you need those numbers in order to make intelligent policy decisions. certainly, we shouldn't make a decision as big as the health care decision without having the numbers of where we're going in the country with deficit and debt. and those numbers aren't going to come out until the congress goes on a break here in august i think is a little interesting that that's the situation.

if that's the case, let's get the numbers out before we move forward on health care, at least. >> and what is your reaction to the vote? you and your colleagues just voted to strip the f-22 from the defense budget. >> well, i voted for that position. i believe it's the right position. it's a plan that was designed to fight a different scenario, basically, to beat the soviet mig 25, i believe it was. and it's a system that we don't necessarily need as many planes as we thought we needed. i would like to see that money go to reduce the debt. if it's not going to, let's put it in the weapons systems that our soldiers need who are in the field today, such as better helicopters and a lot of other things that they need. >> senator gregg, any regrets that you didn't stay in the obama cabinet as commerce secretary? >> well, you know, it would have been an interesting thing to do, and i very much appreciated the opportunity that was offered,

but let's be forthright about this. i wouldn't be very good at defending the president on this health care proposal and i would have been even less, probably, enthusiastic about his budget, which is running up these massive deficits and this large debt. it would have been a difficult job to do and the right decision was made by myself, i just should have made it earlier. >> i guess that was sort of my point, that you weren't going to be a great cheerleader for either the health care or the budget proposals. but thank you for coming on today. >> thank you. >> always good to talk to you. thanks, senator. straight ahead, new signs of stabilization in the economy, but the same can't be said for rising unemployment. cnbc's ron insana joins us next, right here on "andrea mitchell reports." over a million people have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. at legalzoom, we'll help you incorporate your business, file a patent, make a will and more. you can complete our online questions in minutes. then we'll prepare your legal documents and deliver them directly to you.

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we do expect to see positive job creation near the end of the year, early next year. but it's going to take a while, given the pace of growth for the unemployment rate to come back down to levels that we would be

more comfortable with. >> fed chairman ben bernanke testifying before the house financial services committee today about the state of the economy. cnbc's senior analyst, ron insana, joins us now. ron, what did you hear in the semiannual testimony that changed anything in terms of your outlook? >> well, i think the chairman was quite definite in his handling of questions, many of which, andrea, had little foundation in economic reality or theory. but i think the fact that he suggested that the economy is likely to improve, although like 2001, like 1991, we may experience something of a jobless recovery, was important to note. he also put the ownous back on congress to restore fiscal policy as opposed to monetary policy. they said, we've got these handled. we will rein.

in for a period of time. >> and what did he tell you or tell readers of "the wall street journal" in his op-ed today and tell the committee about the exit strategy? how did he reassure the markets about his way of taking money out of the economy once things begin to recover? >> well, i think he very accurately surmized that most people misapprehend, one, the size of these problems as outlined by neil barofsky, the head of the t.a.r.p., the inspector general of the t.a.r.p. program, and two, that many of these expire at preset dates, and will roll off accordingly. now, if corporations or the commercial paper market or other aspects of the credit market need additional help, the fed can extend the programs, but as the economy recovers and the private sector takes over its old function of providing capital to businesses and the consumers, these programs will simply disappear. there's no magic here. it's not like a black box, some mathematical form that nobody can understand.

these programs will go away. and on a side note, the notion that mr. barofsky identified the total cost of the programs under a worst-case scenario, $27.3 million, that's when you look at guarantees. the actual dollars spent are a mere fraction of that, andrea. >> there were a couple other things that came up as well today. we're talking about bank regulation, that's clear the backdrop for all of this. what role the fed will play or not play in that. and also, executive compensation. what did ben bernanke say today about executive compensation? >> it's interesting. and i think the fed has essentially been forced in to this conversation, this dialogue, this debate by saying that pay-for-performance and risk management should be the centerpiece of how bankers are compensated as opposed to taking rather unwieldy risks, which they did during this recent credit crisis. so he, unlike some of his predecessors, i think, is a little bit more actively engaged

in the debate about compensation, and may be a little less free market oriented. now, we can debate the merits of that for time in memorial, i think, but it does seem that at one juncture throughout the process, the pay got a little bit skewed to those who took the most risk as opposed to the most balanced risk. >> and when meredith vieira asked the president about the pay and the perks and whether the banks have forgotten or ignored the lessons of the past, the president certainly agreed with her. i mean, the white house wants to see a much tougher line toward the banks, towards compensation, and certainly in light of some of these profit reports. >> yeah. although, andrea, the one thing about the profit reports that i think people truly don't get is that this is exactly what you want right now. you want the government out of the banking system. you don't want the taxpayer on the hook. you want the bankers to successfully recapitalize, quite frankly, in almost any manner in which they can achieve it at this point in time. and i would say that, you know,

the president who earned $2.7 million selling books last year, you know, i'm not sure how worried about compensation he is in the long run when he too is a millionaire. >> well, he certainly earned that in writing those books. >> yes. some of the bankers did too. >> no one can deny the best sellers. okay. but ron insana, thank you very much. >> thanks, andrea. >> good to see you. and coming up, as president obama increases his efforts to get health care legislation passed through congress, there are rising doubts about how he is handling the issue. "the washington post's" dan balz takes us behind the latest poll numbers, next on "andrea mitchell reports." ! tell your friends, tell your dad, tell your mom! never mind, they've been singing our songs since we first showed up with our pirate hats on! if you're not into fake sword fights pointy slippers and green wool tights take a tip from a knight who knows free credit report dot com, let's go! vo: offer applies with enrollment in triple advantage. i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day men's 50+ advantage... has gingko for memory and concentration.

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and we all have doubt. but when the moment comes... what's going to win? here's to confidence. gillette helps you look, feel, be your best. gillette. the best a man can get. democratic leaders are in the midst of a major push to win over health care critics, inside their own party. house speaker pelosi is making plans to limit the proposed tax

on the wealthy to include only millionaires, something that freshman congressman propose. president obama meeting this hour with the blue dogs, the conservative middle of the road democratic house members who warn that that might fight the government-backed public insurance option, and that would delay any overhaul. plus, hhs secretary kathleen sebelius and white house office of health reform director nancy-ann deparle are on the hill, joining senate democrats at their weekly luncheon. joining us now, democratic senator ron wyden of oregon, a member of the senate finance committee. senator, were you over to slip into your weekly caucus for lunch and listen to the white house pitch? >> i really didn't get much time there, andrea, but as soon as i'm done, i'm heading right back there. >> what about the latest reports that we're hearing from our producer, our senator producer, ken strickland, that max baucus has announced out of finance with a coalition of the willing on agreement on some of the policy proposals, not the finance mechanisms, which we're all waiting for, but some of the still-uncertain policy proposals on the senate finance side? >> we're certainly putting in a

lot of time, but it seems to me that we've got to focus on the basics. that's holding people's premiums down and making sure that everybody has choices. and i feel very strongly that everybody ought to have choices like members of congress. not some people, but everybody, and i've got a proposal to do that and it would hold costs down and it will have bipartisan support. >> and that means a choice, which would include a public option, similar to what you all enjoy up on the hill? >> i'm very hope to the public option, just as long as it contains costs. but members of congress have access to a wide array of choices. we get a chance to belong to a big group. you can't discriminate against somebody who has a pre-existing condition. it's a chance to hold costs down and if everybody has choices like members of congress and we give people financial rewards for making a wise selection, the budget office will score that as producing savings. the reason i know that is because they've done it for 14 senators. >> they've done that for 14

senators. what about the proposals, though, that are on the hill from the house and the senate so far? what we know so far from the cbo, from the budget office, is that they have scored them as lacking, as not containing costs or bending that curve. >> that's correct. and as of now, we've got the only proposal with bipartisan support. and i think if you look at the president's website, he talks about everybody having choices. and, unfortunately, the bills on the hill don't give everybody choices. they have something called fire walls that's restricting choices, keeping americans from having the kinds of opportunities members of congress does. if we had those kinds of choices, we will end up with people paying a lower premium. >> you were talking about your proposal, but right now max baucus is working with these other senators, and their going in a different direction. >> i don't think so at all. i'm talking about exactly the kind of approach the president has on his website. the president on his website

says everybody's going to have choices. i think americans are going to be pretty surprised when they look at some of these bills, a couple of the proposals, which a lot of americans won't have any choices. if you're, for example, working at a middle-sized company, some government official says your coverage is affordable, you won't get choices like members of congress. you won't even get to go to the public option, even though there's been a big campaign to say you will. >> senator, do you think that these bills can be done by the august break, or should there be more time? >> i want to stick to the president's timetable, andrea. the president said he wanted health coverage legislation passed this year. i think he's right to put his foot to the pedal. i support that. now, the letter that the moderate senators sent, we don't say anything about delaying the august recess. in fact, i'm prepared to stay here all the way through the august recess. i told my wife and my spouse, there's nothing more important in my view than fixing health care. you can't get the economy on

track unless you fix health care. i'm prepared to put off the august recess. >> what did your wife have to say about that? >> she wasn't exactly cheering for it, but she said, ever since you were codirector of the great panthers, i heard you talk about this issue and you ought to stay with it. >> okay. support from the home front, it's all-important. thank you, senator wyden. see you at the end of august. >> thank you. and two new polls this wee show president obama's approval ratings are slipping. today's new gallup poll has his approval rating at 56% down from 65% when he first took office. and "the washington post"/abc poll shows him now at 59%, down ten points from april. dan balz is a new reporter for "the washington post." and your new book is out next month. and we look forward to that read and having you back then.

let's look at these polls, the president, how much difficult is he in and what warning signs do you see among independents, in particular? >> well, the warning signs among independents are significant at this point, i think. the president's overall approval rating is still pretty good. 58 in the gallup, 59% in "the pos post"/abc poll, those are not shabby ratings for a president, given everything he has taken on. but as we've been saying for some time, he's more popular than his policies. and the fact that independents who were critical in both the 2006 and 2008 elections are beginning to have serious doubts about some of his policies. we're seeing it on the health care front, we're certainly seeing it on the deficit front, and there's some skepticism about whether the stimulus package is going to do everything that they had said it would do. >> dan, jim la her asked about

this last night. >> what does that mean? >> it means that what we're doing is hard. and the truth is, i feel pretty good about the fact that our polls have held up under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. you know, i think we may have set a very high bar for ourselves. so the congressional process, people are always a little suspicious of. i'm confident, though, that in the end, any bill i sign is going to make more people secure in their health care and is going to drive down costs over the long-term. >> dan, it is hard, what he's trying to do, really hard. is he going about it the right way? is david brooks correct, that he's skewed too much to the left, follow the lead of speaker pelosi, and hasn't really, you know, stuck with the basic principles that got him to the oval office? >> well, there's certainly a question about whether he has

given sort of too much leash to the house democratic leadership. and we're going to see how that plays out. he is a person who does tend to play a longer game. he is not bothered by the ups and downs that fascinate all of us from minute to minute as we look at this. there's no question that he's slipped on these things, and i think one of the issues facing him is whether that will make democrats, moderate democrats, less likely to stick with him on some of these tough votes or whether they will come to the conclusion that they need to rally together, which is surgeon general one of the messages that rahm emanuel and others from the white house have been giving to democrats. their message is, it's going to cost us more if we fail than if we succeed. so president obama is going to watch this. he is trying to guide it. i think there have been certainly calls for him to be more active in laying down exactly what he wants, not in a dictatorial sense, but in a way to guide it. these are the couple of weeks

where that's going to happen. you've talked about this already today, but there's so much focus now on the senate finance committee and what come out of there. and i think that is the next big step and once that happens, then we'll have a better sense of it. >> all right. dan balz, "washington post," thank you so much. >> thank you, andrea. coming up, who wins by turning the debate over health care into an all-out political fight? steve mcmahon and susan mall narrowry joins us next on "andrea mitchell reports." at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick has the fastest serve in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed. ...on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can book travel plans faster, check my account balances faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than andy roddick. (announcer) "switch to the nations fastest 3g network" "and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free".

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president obama's self-imposed august deadline to receive a health care bill could be slipping away. republicans are already blaming the democrats for what they expect will be another failed attempt to overhaul the system. >> either this bill fails or it will change dramatically. and if the bill fails, it will be because of disagreement among

the democrats as to the proper direction to head as far as health care reform is concerned. the disagreement on the other side of the aisle, it reflects the growing fear among americans about the potential for a government takeover of our health care system. >> so let's bring in democratic strategist, steve mcmahon, and republican strategist, former new york congresswoman, susan ma mallnarry. did jim demint step in it by giving him a way out? >> i think that was a tactical error and i think the majority is as senator gregg said on your show just a few minutes ago, the majority of senators want to see this work. they also want to make sure they have enough time to get into the debate, to be a part of the debate. health care is not one of those things like in appropriations if you spend too much, you can cut back the next year. once we make this massive overhaul of health care, much of

what is very necessary, you can't undo it. so the real focus has to be on why this arbitrary august 7th deadline. i know it gets harder when congress leaves session. but i think that feedback is very important for congress to leave, come back, hear what the people are concerned about. we see the numbers are dropping on health care and support for health care and senator obama. you know, let's just take a break and keep to it. but let's not work on a political deadline, because the political deadline only encourages political discussion. >> what about that, steve? what kind just wait, take a deep breath, let the people during the august recess, let their members know how they really feel? >> well, we've been waiting an awfully long time. the last time that this was even attempted was 1993, so it's been 16 years that we've been waiting. and i don't think that for most people, most of these issues are that complicated. people think they should have a choice of public -- i'm sorry, of a choice of plans. some people think there should be a public option.

most people agree the people with pre-existing conditions should be able to get coverage. and there are a whole range of things that people agree on. and in august, i expect members of congress are going to hear from their constituents that they want health care reform that embodies those things. >> the republican national chairman, michael steele, went at it with joe scarborough today. let's watch a little bit of that debate within a debate about health care. >> mr. chairman, i love you, but be very careful, those four issues will not cut costs -- >> you're absolutely wrong. >> we cut costs -- >> joe -- >> are you hearing tell me if we do those four things -- hold on a second -- >> please, spare me. >> spare you? >> yes, come on. >> give me a cbo estimate of that -- >> if you do tort reform, you're not going to cut costs? >> yes, you're going to cut costs. you're not listening to my question. >> well. >> good morning television, no doubt about it. >> great morning television. >> absolutely, yes, it is.

>> what about cutting costs? the republicans haven't offered their way of, quote, bending the curve and bringing costs down either. >> no, no, that's exactly true. the republicans need to step up. they have to put together what their policy is. they have to show the american people how they can accomplish a lot of the goals that steve mcmahon just talked about. everybody's in agreement about that. one thing we do know, however, is that senator obama's proposal and the democratic proposal increases costs by $279 billion at a time when this nation is very concerned about growing deficit, the lack of growth on our economy, the growth in unemployment. so i think that that's a number we do know and we have to deal with that. >> and how does the white house deal with that cbo forecast, more than $200 billion that has already been scored as in the hole? >> well, there are some things that can't be scored, because they don't actually produce savings that are scorable. for instance, if you -- >> but the point is, steve, back to the umpire -- >> no, i understand. >> that's the system. and it has to meet up -- kent

conrad admitted that admitted t me yesterday that's what they're dealing with. >> i understand it is what they're dealing with. for instance, if you do technology, you can reduce the cost of health care by some 30%. if you treat chronic disease instead of waiting for people to end up in the hospital, you can cut health care costs by as much as 30%. those are things that are real savings that aren't scorable savings and the president and members of congress recognize that over time is when you're going to bend the costs for not over the next month or two months or next year. >> what the cbo would say, steve, if they were real savings they would be scorable. >> well -- >> that is what we live with. >> andrea, the cbo will say we'll score if if we can, those are theoretical savings that make sense. maybe they have to get more health care, they will pay for this one way or another. there's no question it will get paid for but there's no question those things will produce real savings. >> we've got to leave it there.

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what stories will we be talking about in the next 24 hours? chris cilizza, perhaps the news conference, the president's big push tomorrow night, prime time 8:00? >> andrea, i think we'll continue to talk a lot about health care and how the white house has gotten very aggressive in the last few days. we've seen any number of things from as nowing the press conference via twitter. his remarks almost every day try to drive the narrative, keep control of the message, change has to come now. we've already made significant progress. don't stop now. they want to make sure that, the white house wants to make sure that's the message getting out there to a skeptical american

public, rather than michael steele and some of the republicans' counter messages. >> i can guarantee you one thing he will not be wearing in the press conference tomorrow night is the dad jeans. this is how meredith vieira questioned him about his choice of attire for throwing out the pitch afternoon the jat star. >> called them dad jeans, nerd jeans. you are married to one of the most fashionable women in the world you defend the pants? >> no. michelle, she looks fabulous. i'm a little frumpy. i hate to shop. those jeans are comfortable, and for those of you who, you know, want your president to, you know, look great in his tight jeans, i'm sorry, i'm not the guy. >> he's not the guy. thank goodness he doesn't have to wear the smoking jacket. you're not exactly a fashion plate either. >> just for the record i am a

dad of a 4 1/2 month old and i have cool jeans that i would never wear with white sneakers like the president did. i think he was trying to channel jerry seinfeld. >> i think he needs more room for throwing out the pitch. 90 feet is 90 feet. thanks very much, chris cillizza. read more at blog.washingt blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix. that does it for us this hour. i'm andrea mitch until washington. contess ta brewer and melissa francis pick it up next with "it's the economy." stay right here. right now, 1.5 million people are on a conference call. 750,000 wish they weren't. - ( phones chirping ) - construction workers are making 244,000 nextel direct connect calls. 1 million people are responding to an email. - 151 accidentally hit "reply all." - ( foghorn blows ) that's happening now. america's most dependable 3g network bringing you the first wireless 4g network. - sprint. the now network. - ( whoosh sound )

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make no mistake, we are closer than ever before to the reform that the american people need, and we're going to get the job done. >> the president is pushing for action. he wants more americans to get access to medical care, but he's facing a lot of questions here about whether the current plans cost too much money for what the nation gets in exchange.

and what is it saving the health care system, rationing medical treatment? we'll talk to a real doctor about the real ways to save money on health care. investigators are looking at michael jackson's doctors, reportedly 19 of them, looking for answers about the prescription drugs the pop star was taking in the last days of his life. have you seen ticket prices lately? flights are cheap. >> enjoy it while it lasts. we could see some big changes soon. i'm melissa francis. >> i'm contessa brewer. "it's the economy" on msnbc. president obama telling the public the nation is closer than ever to a health care overhaul. >> about an hour ago he talked about his efforts in a statement in the white house rose garden. >> the american people understand the status quo is unacceptable. they don't care who is up or who is down politically in washington. they care about what's going none their own lives. they don't care about the latest line of political attack. they care about whether their

families will be crushed by rising premiums. >> with us now is nbc white house correspondent savannah guthrie. obama talked about the agreements we with congress. was he trying to create momentum? it seems like he's lost a little bit of momentum. >> reporter: what he's doing is what he did on friday as well, which is to say let's take a step back here and show the progress we've made. everybody watching and wants to talk about the divisions and where the fights are and so he wants to say look, we're close to health care reform, closer than we've ever been before. we resolved a host of issues, dealing with members of the industry that oppose the democrats and opposed health care reform in 1993 and that's all well and good. look, the fights are where the financing is, and that's what nobody can agree on right now. the senate finance committee has been meeting, is continuing to meet behind closed doors, trying to work out a bipartisan deal on how to pay for this thing. the house has a plan, but there's revolt even within the ranks of the democratic party about this idea