incident raises that old question of racial profiling. and how did president obama's approval rating stack up six months into his presidency compared to other presidents. finally, would grouchow marx refuse to be part of a health plan that refused to accept him as a member? we'll get to that in the hard ba "hardball sideshow." we begin with senator orrin hatch, a utah republican and a member of the finance committee. senator, you're one of the coalition of the willing so-called, one of the seven senators, four republicans and three democrats, who may well decide this health care bill. what will it take to get it into a conference with the house? >> well, as you know, both the house bill and the health committee bill in the senate, we' were very, very partisan bills. it would take a real bipartisan effort to get something i think everybody could support.

there's a wide disparity of what we should do. almost everybody is for improving access, reducing costs, promoting prevention, but when you get into the details, that's where you get into trouble. and, of course, we're finding that they're pushing government mandates. those are job killers. you know, government plan, in other words a government control of health care and medicaid expansion. these are all very, very difficult issues that have to be examined or we'll put this country on its backside. >> let's listen for a second, senator, to president obama. here is what he said today. >> i know that there are those in this town who openly declare their intention to block reform. it's a familiar washington script that we've seen many times before. these opponents of reform would rather score political points than offer relief to americans who have seen premiums double and costs grow three times faster than wages. they would maintain a system that works for the insurance and

the drug companies while becoming increasingly unaffordable for families and for businesses. >> is that helpful, senator? >> well, i like the president. you know, he's a very fascinating and interesting man, very bright guy, charismatic, good speaker and all that, but let me tell you something, he hasn't rolled up his sleeves and gotten involved in this thing, and that just sounds like criticism that is general in nature but really doesn't hit what's really going on here. look, we're worried about having the government take over health care in this country, and if anybody believes that the government is going to do a better job than the private sector, they've got to be nuts. look at meddaire. medicare is now facing a $39 trillion unfunded debt, and that's because government is running it. medicaid, look, they're talking about medicaid expansion. if we go with either of the house bill or the health committee and the senate's bill, my gosh, you're talking about moving all kinds of people into medicaid which would destroy the private competitive market, and not only that, but in the end

you wouldn't be able to cover the 47 million people they claim have to be covered. the fact of the matter is that there would be about 33 million not covered if you take the health committee plan without moving them into medicaid. if you move them into medicaid, you'd still have 15 to 20 million people who would not be covered. you know, to be honest with you, we need to work in a bipartisan way. this is one-sixth of the american economy and all we're hearing from the government is more taxes, more government, more spending, and more budgetary deficits. that's why when the budget committee chairman, doug elmendo elmendorf, who was appointed by democrats and who is a terrific guy, when he came out and said, look, all you're going to do is add more to the deficit, you're going to have to have more spending, and in the end you're not going to do as much as you're doing now, in all honesty we've got to work together in a bipartisan way if we're going to solve one-sixth of the american

economy's problem. >> if you're going to get a lot of young and haemy people to join this health care system, and i'm for it myself, my kids should join, if they would join they'd be healthy and young and a good bet for the health care system. what about tying that together with something like you have on the hill, a credit union, it's a cooperative. it would be full transparency. you'd go into it via shared risk. a lot of healthy people in it. it might be a good deal for everybody. what about that kind of a cooperative as a compromise between no public option and a public option? >> well, senator conrad from north dakota has come up with this co-op approach. it's much easier spoken of in generalities than it is in putting it into practice, but, you know, the democrats are insisting that there has to be what they call a public option or a government-run health care system, and they may be willing to go with something like o cops but senator schumer who seems to have a lot of control in the

democratic side indicated that -- from new york, he indicated that he would not go along with it unres -- and he's speaking for the liberal democrats as a whole, they would not go along with that unless there was a federal co-op plan run right here in washington. he said we would agree to -- the democrats would agree to abounding the board, giving them the money, and letting them be on their own. if anybody believes that, they have to be nuts. what they want to do, and let's just be brutally frank about it, they want to come up with a system that pushes you towards a singer payer system. single payer means the government decides everything. like i say, we see how the government has fouled up medicare, medicaid with the debts and the debt structure and the unfunded liabilities. if you think government is going to do it, my gosh, you haven't looked at the past. >> okay, senator. thanks for coming on. can you throw me a bone by saying you're headed to voting

for sotomayor for the supreme court? >> well, i'm still undecided. literally, it's one of the most difficult problems i have. i want to be fair. i like her very much, i like her family. she has a great life story, but i have to admit there are a lot of troubling things about her testimony that have really bothered me. so i'll have to make up my mind by next tuesday and i'm going to -- i'm reading the cases. i'm doing everything i can to be fair. you know, i want to be fair, but on the other hand i got to say, there are a lot of things that bother me. >> okay. thank you very much, senator orrin hatch of utah. joining us now, north dakota's democratic senator kent conrad who is the budget committee chairman and, of course, a member of the finance committee itself. i was asking just a moment ago, i was asking senator hatch, a republican, about the idea of having some kind of a co-op or credit union model like you have on the hill for all the employees on the hill. i used to be a member of that, the credit uniwhere everybody kicks in and you get a lot of young people involved in it so it's a healthy business. how do you flesh out that

option, sir? >> we've been doing a lot of discussion about that. i think it's developing in a very comprehensive way, that you have a cooperative approach, so it's not government-run, government-controlled. it's membership-run, membership-controlled just as you described with the credit union here on the hill. so i think it is a very much a live option. we see group health out in washington working very well. 600,000 people performing extremely well in an unreformed insurance market and what the experts have been telling us the last two days in a reform market those cooperative models could even be more effective. >> let's talk about the other piece that seems to be the problem, the general financing, the plugging of the hole, if you will, fiscally here. have you found the $200 billion? >> you know, we've got a number of pieces that could completely fill that hole. this afternoon has largely been

dedicated to an analysis of those various options. we've had today some of the leading actuaries in the country helping us analyze these options as well as the joint committee on taxation. i think it's been an outstanding day. i think we're getting quite close now to a comprehensive agreement. >> when is the schedule look like it's going to reach fruition. do you think you might have a deal by tonight, late tonight? >> you know, we have said all along that we can't impose these kind of artificial deadlines. we'll be ready when we're ready. so much of this is out of our hands because we come up with options, they go to the congressional budget office for analysis and scoring, and we don't know when they will come back with an answer. just like we don't know when joint tax will come back. we keep sending them variations to try to meet concerns that members have, and we just have to let that process play out.

what's most important here is not that we meet any specific deadline. it is that we get this right. we've got lots of time left in this year to pass meaningful health care reform. the critical test is will it be right? will it stand the test of history? >> is the president and are his people doing the right thing these days? are they helpful to you in getting a deal? >> yes. the president had me down last friday, spent almost an hour with him. we had a very, i thought, constructive discussion about the options before us. i think they're doing a very good job of keeping the pressure on because, you know, they're quite right. work expands to fill the time and if there's not somebody pressing to reach conclusion, you never do reach conclusion around here. so i think they're playing it about right, and i think they have been very constructive. >> you've got four republicans in the coalition of the willing, senator hatch, of course, senator grassley included and snowe included. how do you guarantee to them

that whatever deal they go along with for the senate version, that it will largely be protected in conference? that this won't be a bait and switch with the liberals in the house? >> well, that, chris, is a great, great question because that is very much on their minds, as you can imagine. and what they've been promised is a place at the table, that there will be a real conference committee and they will be there, and they will be fully represented and they'll have a chance to just as they have throughout this process, contribute fully to the discussion and the debate. >> you know. >> you are a great guy. i really appreciate it as an american the work you guys are doing out there trying to get this finished. thank you so much, kent conrad of north dakota. coming up, remember when john mccain had to correct a woman at a campaign event who said that barack obama is a muslim? it's getting a lot worse out there. you won't believe it. you thought the election was over, it's not over yet for some people. wait until you see what happened in delaware. the state of delaware when a

republican congressman, mike castle, the former governor, had a woman stand up and basically waeved her birth certificate claiming -- well, you have to watch and see what she says. how big a problem is this out there in crazyland? we'll be right back with the lunatic fringe. you're watching "hardball" only on machines. free credit repor! tell your friends, tell your dad, tell your mom! never mind, they've been singing our songs since we first showed up with our pirate hats on! if you're not into fake sword fights pointy slippers and green wool tights take a tip from a knight who knows free credit report dot com, let's go! vo: offer applies with enrollment in triple advantage.

does two jobs... at once. one: kills weeds to the root. two: forms a barrier, preventing new ones for up to four months. roundup extended control. coming up, why was a prominent harvard professor arrested in his own house? the charges have been dropped, but the arrest of henry louis gates, who is an african-american, has raised that old question of racial profiling. we'll get to that later in the show on "hardball." so i've come to this ring to see who's faster... on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can browse the web faster, email business plans faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than floyd mayweather. (announcer) switch to the nation's fastest 3g network and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free.

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welcome back to "hardball." you think right wing conspiracy theorys about barack obama calmed down after he was elected, think again? mike castle, the former governor of delaware, held a town hall meeting and he got more than he bargained for from some of his constituents. take a listen to this.

>> congressman castle, i have a birth certificate here from the united states of america saying i am an american citizen with a seal on it signed by a doctor and two hospital administers, my parents, my date of birth, the time and date. january 20th, and i want to know why are you people ignoring -- >> yeah! >> he is not an american citizen. he is a citizen of kenya. i am an american. my father fought in world war ii, one of the greatest generations in the pacific theater. and i don't want this -- i want my country back!

>> he is a citizen of the united states. this man is a citizen of the united states. [ inaudible ]. >> i think we should all stand up and give -- [ inaudible ]. they sacrificed their lives for our freedom. [ inaudible ]. >> and to the republic for which

it stands, one nation under god indi visible with liberty and justice for all. >> thank you. >> well, they're just giving the pledge of allegiance apropos so the nut case going on there. nutty questions about the president's birth certificate are being raised not only at republican town meetings, but also in congress where a group of republicans are sponsoring a bill to require future presidential candidates to provide their birth certificates. one of those republicans is congressman john campbell of california. congressman, thank you for joining us. the reason this is fascinating is that meeting. but let me tell you the prime sponsor of this, your colleague bill posey of indiana. he said i can't swear on a stack of bibles whether he's a citizen or not. he's talking about the president of the united states. his spokesman says if he would

show a birth certificate. people are losing faith in the american system because they don't believe this guy is a citizen. what is going on that so many americans doubt the obvious, that barack obama is a citizen to the point that you felt it necessary to co-sponsor this crazy proposal? >> first of all, chris, we'll get to the proposal in a minute. the proposal is not crazy. the proposal is just looking forward and i want to get to that, but wouldn't you like to put all this to rest? that's what this proposal is about. >> how does this put it to rest? >> this controversial -- let me first say this controversy is not new. there were questions about john mccain. had john mccain become president i remember then senator obama had to come out and say i don't think john mccain's eligibility to become president is an issue. he was able to put it to rest, but the fact is if john mccain had become president, you would be having this issue on the other side. if you want to go back, people thought barry goldwater was not qualified because he was born in the arizona territory and mitt

romney's father, george romney, was not eligible to be president because he was born in mexico. so this is not a new issue. what this bill does is very simple. it's only looking forward, as you suggested, 2012 and beyond, and it just -- let me back up. you know, the constitution, as you know, there's -- most elements of the constitution have implementing legislation. this particular element of the constitution does not, and this is just implementing legislation. just saying before you run for president, let's make sure -- let's have you substantiate that you meet the constitutional requirements, that you're 35 years old -- why is that crazy though, chris? >> congressman, nice try. what you're doing, it's a nice try with your argument. i'm laughing with you only to this extent because i know it's a nice try. what you're doing is a feedsipi the nut cases. this won't prove or disprove whether barack obama is a citizen. let me show you his birth

certificate. that's the way to deal with it. mail this birth certificate to the wacko wing of your party to see this it and say i agree with this, it's over. what you're doing here is doing what the republicans did after roosevelt got elected to a third and fourth term. you say you can't do it again. you're verifying the paranoia out there. you're saying to the people, you're right, that's a reasonable question. whether he's a citizen or not. is it a reasonable question, congressman? do you believe it's a reasonable question whether barack obama is a legitimate native-born american? is that a legitimate question? >> chris, isn't it a legitimate question, and let me ask you, isn't it -- >> here is his birth certificate. >> chris, chris, anybody who runs for president, you, me, whoever, that we meet the constitutional requirements, 35 years of age, been a resident of country for 15 years, and the natural-born citizen. don't you think anybody who runs for president should -- wouldn't you want to know that? that they meet those requirements before they run? what's wrong with that? >> do you have any doubts,

congressman, about the authentic native birth in this country of our president? do you have any doubts? >> chris, my -- it doesn't -- >> do you have any doubts. >> it doesn't matter if i have doubts or not. >> oh, it matters. it's a simple question. >> i agree with -- >> no, no. you are feeding the wacko wing of your party. do you believe that barack obama is a legitimate native-born american or not? >> that is not what this bill is about, chris. >> no, what do you believe? >> as far as i know, yes, okay? >> as far as you know? i'm showing you his birth certificate. >> i'm looking at a camera right now. >> you want me to mail it to you? >> no. chris -- >> it's on the screen now. take a close look. it says barack hussein obama. he was born in honolulu. ask that a state? yes, it is. his mother is caucasian. he was born at 7:24 p.m. on the

island of oahu. who more do you want? you say as far as you know. you are playing to the crazies. >> chris, what is wrong -- >> just tell me -- >> no, you tell me, because that bill is not about barack obama. >> well, then what about you? what are you about? i'm asking you congressman -- you know what, you have a lot of authenticity. you're a u.s. congressman. say it now. he's a legitimate president of the united states. he was born in this country. >> he is president of the united states, and -- >> no, was he born in this country? >> yes, i believe so. >> i'm glad we're making progress here. >> but -- >> but the reason your colleague -- you co-sponsored a bill by this guy posey. posey's spokesman said we want to see an authentic birth certificate from this guy. his people said -- this is what the congressman said. i can't swear on a stack of bibles whether he is a legitimate american. you are playing to the wacko ring. i'm glad you left the band of merry men and women who are out

there jumping up at hearings of people like mike castle who is a normal person and raising what is really not a good question to raise. now, the reason i bring this up with you is you say this will put the issue to rest. do you think barring a president from serving more than two terms put to rest whether franklin roosevelt should have been elected a third and fourth term? do you think it really put it to rest or was it a way of whacking the guy out the door? >> he did serve more than two terms. >> what we're saying here is let's not have questions about it again. as i said -- >> there are no questions. >> no, no -- >> here is his birth certificate. where are the questions? >> but, chris, the questions -- even those questions will go away if there's a process because if john mccain had been elected, people would be questioning him, too. >> congressman, one last question. >> sure. >> do you believe by passing a bill that no more presidents, no

future president can be elected without showing a birth certificate will put to rest whether barack obama was born in the united states or not? >> i believe -- >> do you think that will put it to rest? >> yes. probably will. >> how will it put it to rest? >> because -- well, because he will probably run again in 2012. is that what you mean or what? >> you're saying he has to show a birth certificate to get re-elected president? is that what you're saying? >> chris, it's about going forward. it is about ensuring that anyone who runs for president meets the constitutional requirements so we don't have that problem. you have a major in the united states army now saying he's not going to serve because -- there's a lot of this rippling out there, and this would put it to rest in the future. not now, you're correct. >> let me tell you how to put it to rest. get a copy of barack obama's birth certificate, which you didn't have to be on this show to get a copy if you had any interest in finding it because before you signed onto this bill i would have recommended to you if i were one of your staffers find out if barack obama has a birth certificate that shows

he's born in this country before we proceed in this wacky direction. this will send a signal to the whole word if the u.s. passes a bill and asks the president to sign it that says no future president can get in the door without proving he's a zen, i think he might get the message he's been profiled as a suspect in it case. >> let me have you think about whether it's wacky to say you shouldn't have to prove you meet the constitutional requirements before you run. i'm not sure that's not -- >> i want to see the letters that you send to your constituents and i want to know whether you tell them, you know, sir, i have a copy of his birth certificate. we really don't need it for this president, but i understand the need for future presidents, but i just don't want to see people playing to the nut wing, and you say you're not doing that. >> absolutely not doing that. it's the opposite, chris. it will shut this stuff down. >> no, it won't. >> all right. well, we can disagree to disagree on that. >> if this shuts it down, i will be shocked.

thank you. you're a great guy to come on the show. congressman john campbell who does believe, watch the are he run at 7:00, he does believe that barack obama is a native-born american, so those whack os in your district out there, don't vote for this guy because he fundamentally disagrees with you. i'm just kidding. up next what does groucho marx have to do with the debate over health care reform? stick around. you'll find out in the "sideshow." i think we just had a "sideshow." you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. where will you find the stability and resources to keep you ahead of this rapidly evolving world? these are tough questions. that's why we brought together two of the most powerful names in the industry. introducing morgan stanley smith barney. here to rethink wealth management. here to answer... your questions. morgan stanley smith barney. a new wealth management firm with over 130 years of experience. if we don't act, medical bills will wipe out their savings. if we don't act, she'll be denied coverage

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back to "hardball." time for the official "sideshow." first up, if barack obama has to vet his life or has bet his life as groucho marx used to say on health care, well, his enemies are out there playing a different brand of groucho. pal dins of the right like bill crystal who bushed dan quayle, the iraq war, and spaarah palinn

us, he now says to kill this year's attempt, literally crystal says kill it. this was posted on a huffington post blog likening such sentiments to the great groucho himself. ♪ i don't know what they have to say, it makes no difference anyway, whatever it is i'm against it ♪ ♪ no matter what it is or who commenced it, i'm against it ♪ ♪ your proposition may be good but let's have one thing understood, whatever it is, i'm against it ♪ ♪ and even when you changed it or condensed it, i'm against it ♪ >> well, that's how some of the writer -- by the way, for those who want to get the dvd of that, horse feathers. time for tonight's big numbers. if you think republicans always represent the rich and dpts the working class poor, here is an

interesting trend line. started back in 19d 95, just one-fifth of the country's top 25 richest congressional districts were represented by democrats. today in 2009 how many of those top 25 money districts are held by democrats? 14 of the 25. the significance of this right now, this democratic crowd could prove an obstacle to the white house's plan to raise rich people's taxes to pay for health care. they're going after the people that, well, they're biting the hand that fed them. think about it. you can bet the rich who voted for obama in that 25 richest districts, 14 districts now controlled by democrats might have some food for thought in terms of supporting the latest health care plan. that's tonight's biggest number. up next, what does it say about race and justice in this country when hen ris louis gates himself, a prominent african-american professor at hard vard is arrested trying to break into his own house, well, get into his house? o buy

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i'm rebecca jarvis with your cnbc market wrap. stocks had another win on better than expected earnings and cautious optimism from the fed. the dow added 67 points. the s&p 500 gained about 3.5 and the nasdaq was up almost 7 points. in testimony on capitol hill today fed chair ben bernanke repeated that the economy should start growing again in the second half, but he warned it would be modest growth and unemployment would continue to rise. shares of apple are climbing in after-hours trading after second quarter earnings and revenue beat expectations. apple's report came out just after the closing bell. right now shares are up almost 10% after hours. the company reported stronger than expected earnings and sales

there as well, and internet search engine yahoo! reported after the bell profits there above xeexpectations but yahoo! shares have turned lower. that's it for cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." henry louis gates is a prominent black scholar and he's a harvard professor. pretty well-known fellow. i know who he is. i guess somebody in the police department doesn't know who he is or a neighbor doesn't know who he is. last week police responded to a call that his house near the university was being broken into. it turns out it was gates himself just returning from an overseas trip. during the incident the officer and gates both contend they were being treated by the other person involved. that was the officer blaming him and him blaming the officer. the officer arrested gates for, quote, exhibiting loud and

tumultuous behavior. here is a picture of professor gates in handcuffs outside his house. today the charges were dropped. both he and the police agreed to drop it and the release reads this incident should not be read as one that demeans the character and reputation of professor gates or the character of the cambridge police department. this is a just res dution to an unfortunate set of circumstances. does this shed light on how african-american men are treated by police. clarence page is a friend of ours, always here, a pal of mine going way back. >> way pack. >> chicago tribune columnist and michael is a professor at one of the great universities in the world, georgetown. sir, thank you. >> thank you, my friend. >> we weren't there. >> right. >> let's agree. none of us were there, but what do you think this is about? >> none of this makes sense, first of all. we know skip gates. 58 years old, about 5'7".

he walks with a cane. >> he's got a neighbor that doesn't recognize him. she called 911. got a cop in there saying there's a burglary in progress. he shows up, atmosphere kroully, i love everybody is irish. he e shshows up and is told he' burglar by the neighborhood. >> the only person in the neighborhood who didn't know who he was. unbelievable. >> you're lettered. the neighbor didn't know who he was. the cop didn't know who he was. what do you think happened and what does it say about america to say anything at all, michael? >> absolutely. first of all, your neighbor doesn't know you. you don't have to be famous, just your neighbor. >> that's my point. you don't know the guy that lives next door to you? she saw his profile and called in. this guy looks like he's going to beat me down. >> i don't understand it. she knew her neighbor was a african-american. he had a certain look. she wasn't profiling or what was going on? >> here is the point. america profiles though, chris. the thing is the guy -- the cop going to the house when told --

if we're to believe professor gates that he showed him his i.d. he told him he lived in the house. i think what it was about is an uppity negro indrsyndrome. >> he did say i want to see your badge number. >> i'm saying black men don't challenge white policemen. skip himself has said in an interview -- >> no. >> there are not many -- >> i'm trying to think this through as a white guy. i have had my kids leave, whatever, there's no key. what happened to the key? i went through a window. if a montgomery county cop saw me going in my own window and -- >> i have -- >> and a asked me for my i.d. card it wouldn't have offended me probably, i would be glad he was on the job. in other words, wasn't the action, it was the signal. >> when these people show up at your house, racial profiling is dangerous because they can't distinguish the criminal from the guy who calls the police on the criminal. >> play god here.

play aclu. what should have happened here? >> i think first of all this should shine a spotlight on a bigger problem. maybe it's hwb, housing while black. maybe -- >> don't just arouse -- add to this. >> what does skip gates say? 1 million black men are in jail every day, i just became one of us. if forc it forces us to see there are a lot of black guys who don't deserve to be treated -- >> okay. you're saying prisons are filled with people who didn't commit the crime they're accused of. >> there are a lot of people who have not committed the crime. there are a lot of white guys committing crimes who never get profiled and therefore get away with it. >> let's narrow it. you can do what you want, you're a professor, but let me ask you this. this situation here, what do we do about it? i talked to people i know here who have said to me, you get stopped for speeding, everybody occasionally in their life generally might speed. some of those might get caught,

okay? >> okay. >> they don't always ask you to open your trunk. i hear in case of an african-american that's very likely to happen. >> oh, sure. >> it's happened to him on i-95. >> exactly right. >> pulled over -- >> exactly right. >> pulled over, walk the line. i'm a tee toller. baptist minister. i said -- >> he said to you i'm the president of the united states? >> i'm the president of the united states because i told him i was a ph.d. student at princeton. that was in 1986. and before that i was beat down in detroit, michigan. and since then in princeton and other places. my point is, as clarence can testify, as i can testify, this happens repeatedly. i'm going to tell you this, if you want to know. white america would not stand by if this happened to their kids, to their husbands, to their children, to their men folk constantly being herded up, looked at -- >> what is this you're saying happened here? >> i'm saying skip gates, a famous black professor -- >> what did the police officer do wrong? >> first of all, when professor

gates showed him he lived where he lived and -- >> there's no -- this is in dispute. >> when he steps out on his porch -- >> let's get back to the facts. >> here is the fact -- >> if you want to play lawyer, fine, i'm asking you as an academic what we're learning. if he cooperated with the police officer, he didn't. if he said -- >> wait a minute. >> when the guy asked for it, that's a problem. is the cop entitled to ask you for an i.d. card? >> he is. a guy with a ph.d. from cambridge -- >> he didn't know that. the cop didn't know that. >> you know this though. >> i know it now. >> you know it now. >> this is last thursday. >> i'm saying to you this is my point -- >> yeah. >> a black guy with all that credentials can still be mistreated -- >> i'm trying to be clinical. what did the cop do wrong? >> you have six cops on the scene at a professor's house. 5'7", 58 years old. don't you find -- >> let's just try -- let me --

okay. let me try this. how about the police got a call from gates' house and they didn't respond. you'd read that they're not looking out for the property of a black guy. >> i'm not going to be grateful because the police are doing their job. >> and he wouldn't show his i.d. >> kept asking him for his i.d., according to him. i have reason to believe him. >> because you know him. >> cop doesn't know him. you're a colleague of the guy. >> we always have these stories on black guys, not white guys. >> why do you think they both agreed to drop the case? >> we're trying to dissect something where we weren't even there. what does common sense tell you? that skip gates refused to show his i.d. to a cop at his own house? no. this is the racial eruption of -- >> let me try this by both you gentlemen, friends of mine. could it be we're all carrying lots of baggage.

crime statistics and stuff like that all the time and he's carrying the backage i've been mistreated one too many times and that's the one too many times? >> we all carry backage. i have had people say, well, why aren't you concerned about black on black crime, black killing black folks, but the fact is we are concerned about it, but people really get concerned though when it's a black/white or white/black because that's what we've not resolved. >> and if white guys were being mistreated this routinely and being murdered as they are by policemen this would not be acceptable. that's why president obama needs to use his bully pulpit to explore race, not run from it, not avoid it, but engage. . >> i they he engaged it by getting elected -- >> not enough. >> he's off, he's free. >> i got brothers in prison. >> and they are -- well, it will them to get a good lawyer.

up next, new poll shows president obama trailing other modern president at the six-month mark. we'll see why. well, he's trying to do some things and sometimes causes trouble. we'll get back to that and what is it going to do to his health care reform bill? the politics fix it up next. {th. {. . . .

coming up, sarah palin has just two days left in office. eshtion, m eshtion, my god, can they live without her. are the republicans better off having her out there in the country over up there in the alaska wilderness? like, $600 bucks a year. but other than that, we're pretty much the same. pur. good, clean water.

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ed schultz. this is msnbc. the place for politics. we're back.

with the politics fix with susan page, and politico's executive editor jim van did he hide. let me ask you about the president's numbers. politico's new poll shows trust in the president solves these big problems we're facing has dropped since march, just over half. trust him to find the right answers now. that's compared to two-thirds in march. no surprise there. let me go to you, jim. your news knows. is the health care bill the last couple hours headed towards greatness and possible conclusion in a solution, or is it headed towards the dumpster of history? >> you know, i think we're not going to know until september. they're not going to be able to get this stuff through and get clarity on these bills, i don't think, going into the august break. and what happens in august is what matters. there are going to be millions of dollars spent, and most of it's going to be aimed at moderate to conservative democrats, who are very uneasy with more government spending and too big of a health care plan. if you look at almost all the polling, including the one at susan's paper that's out today,

he is losing a lot of support among moderate conservative democrats. and those are the people that he's got to be concerned about, because he needs that group of members to get a good bill i think through the house and get something through the senate that everyone can vote for. because he's not going to get any republican support, or if he does, it's going to be very minim minimal. >> susan how does it looking for the coalition of the willingness, four republicans and three democratic moderates to put it together in the house senate conference? >> we have been waiting, holding our breath for a month to come out with a deal that's acceptable to them. if it's possible, i think if there is an abruptly bipartisan bill, it will come from those finance committee members. but as each day goes by, it's clear how hard that is going to be, and how more likely it is we'll end up with a package to hold both moderate democrats, fiscally conservative ones and some of liberal democrats who like a much far reaching bill than they're likely to get. >> let's look at the approval numbers from the president at six months compared to other

presidents from world war ii. you can see truman at the top, mighty at 82% when he came in. of course, he came in right after roosevelt was killed, basically, or died, rather. but then you see the numbers dropping down precipitously down into the last really good one was nixon at 65%. are we just in an era right now where it's tough -- if you want to do something as president like obama is trying to do, jim, that it's hard to keep up that 60%? >> it might be. listen, he's not lacking for power or popularity. he has it still in the polls and tremendous power in washington. the problem for him is money. with deficits recently going over a trillion dollars, you've seen a big shift in polls. and i'm not talking one or two polls. virtually every single poll where people are growing uneasy about the size of deficits, they don't want more spending, they don't understand why people have to move so quickly on such a big health care plan. and he's trying to do all of this while people are trying to digest whether or not the stimulus bill, which the public was told has to happen, has to

be big, has to move quickly, why that hasn't worked and cured the unemployment problem. >> susan and jim, we'll be right back with more of "the fix" with sarah palin about to be let free in the upper 48. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. b. your health insurance shouldn't either. so let's fix health care. if everyone's covered, we can make health care as affordable as possible. and the words "pre-existing condition" become a thing of the past... we're america's health insurance companies. supporting bipartisan reform that congress can build on.

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i'm sorry. i can't hear you very well. announcer: does someone you know have trouble hearing on the phone? dad. dad, let me help you with that, okay? announcer: now, a free phone service shows captions of everything a caller says. i'd like to make an appointment to see the doctor. announcer: to learn more about captioned telephone, call 1-800-552-7724 or go to our website. i'll see you at 3:00! announcer: captioned telephone - enjoy the phone again! we're back with "usa today's" susan page, and jim van dehydrogen. sarah palin heading out of office today, heading down to the lower 48.

your hunch as to how well she'll do. >> we're going to hear from her at the reagan library, august 8th, i guess. she says she is going to tweet a lot. i think the question is, is she going to set up a structure with advisors and staff and people she listens to beyond her husband todd so she has a coherent strategy going forward? i think that's one of the raps on her right now. >> jim, will she become a force in the republican party between now and the next election? >> who the heck knows? she is maybe the most unpredictable person in politics right now. she undoubtedly could be a fours if she chooses to. whether or not she actually puts together an infrastructure to allow her to do that is a big open question. she is aextraordinarily popular with republicans. she can raise a lot of money. so she has a lot of the attributes that could make her a big, big player in republican politics. but she has to make that decision on herself. like, what does she want to do with this political career and it's not clear that she knows what she wants to do right now. >> susan, it seeps to me that

she has the power, maybe not to get elected president, but to set the direction. i mean, we just had a discussion on this show tonight about the whaackos out there still questioning the citiship of barack obama. there is a big piece of that 25% of the country that are calling themselves republicans now who are only -- narrowly sane right now in terms of -- i mean, in terms of the relations we discussed who honestly think that barack obama somehow snuck into the presidency. that he is a foreigner. >> you know,in sarah palin may see her basis somewhat different than kind of the nutty fringe. you know, the fact is, one of things we like about sarah palin, that makes her appealing is she doesn't stick to her republican line. she is going to be -- i assume she is going to continue to be unpredictable in that way. she'll be able to get a lot of attention. and the republicans in washington will not be able to control what she says. and that is why she'll be worth listening to. and let's be clear. her support doesn't only come from the republican party. most polls show the republican party likes her.

>> we hope she comes to "hardball." join us tomorrow for more "hardball" and the president's news conference. right now it's time for "the ed show" with ed schultz. >> i'm ed schultz. this is "the ed show." good evening, americans. live from 30 rock in new york, it's the ed show on msnbc. the health care fight is at step four. i am fed up with the object struck nifts, not the republicans, the democrats. the white house's nancy and tom coming up in a moment. we showed you just how much money finance chairman max backus has taken from the health care lobby. now we'll show you how much more money senators are taking, and how they'll be veoting on this so-called reform.

men's in the heart land, still hearting in the economy, but they're fighters. i'll talk to a local mayor in indiana about how his town is coming back. that's in my playbook tonight. plus, psycho talk. another dandy from the oklahoma senator. and we have a great panel. we want you to get your cell phones out tonight, because we want to know what you think about the weak-kneed democrats that just can't deliver the mail for the president. but first, tonight's op-ed. i have an open letter tonight for the president of the united states. opening line, to hell with the republicans. mr. president, you have gone out of your way to work with the republicans on health care reform. and i have to say tonight, mr. president, hadn't done you any favors at all. republicans are actually wishing for your failure. they're calling health care your waterloo. they want you to lose on this. just today -- just today! here we go, we learned that michael steele and the rnc are circulating