of basic health care? i think it's a social requirement that a modern society have a country that's giving health care. you have to sell people on that. it's a bigger picture than what are you getting out of this personally. >> according to the front page of the "new york times," david lenard said "the immediate task facing mr. obama on the news conference wednesday night is to explain that his health care system doesn't really work the way it seems to. he won't be able to put it in such blunt terms but he needs to explain how a typical household one that has insurance and think it is always will, is being harmed." >> he has got to say to people you've all known you're going to your insurance company and having rejected you for particular claims. when you or your husband change jobs or wants to change jobs, they're in a hellhole but can't because they'll lose their health care. he has to show the portability,

pluses of this thing, the preexisting conditions issues. these are a lot of it. you say everybody's who has got health care is happy. they're not. people that have health care are worried. he has to talk to them, the 80-some percent who are voters who think they don't benefit from a new health care system, but if he explains it the way it really works, which is this is going to guarantee you the coverage you think you have, it's going to allow to you change from job to job, that's the selling points he has to make tonight, i think. >> let's talk about the confrontation that you had last night with a california congressman. >> let's put it that way. >> it was tough, appropriately tough. what is this craziness? first of all let's start -- >>'s a moderate. delaware. >> former governor, member of congress and look at what happened to him. call them the full mooners, let's watch it.

>> since january 20th i want to know why are you people ignoring his -- he is not an american citizen. he is a citizen of kenya. >> it makes you wonder about universal suffrage. everybody gets to go with the craziest ideas? >> universal access to town hall meetings. you come on with the congressman last night. >> right. >> on legislation that would require birth certificates for presidential candidates. >> fine with me but why is he doing it? it seems a reasonable request but the reason they're doing this is because they think obama snuck into the presidency, didn't have a birth certificate. the best broadcaster in the world is feeding this, in terms of audience, rush limbaugh. barack obama has one thing in common with god. god does not have a birth certificate either. he's playing into this crowd. >> the clip from last night the

way you challenged your interview guest. >> what is going on that so many americans doubt the obvious that barack obama is a citizen to the point thaw felt it necessary to cosponsor this crazy proposal? >> first of all, chris, we'll get to the proposal in a minute. the proposal is not crazy. >> you are feeding the whacko wing of your party. do you believe that barack obama is a legitimate native born american or not? >> that is not what this bill is about, chris. >> what do you believe? >> as far as i know, yes, okay? >> as far as you snow. >> yeah. >> i'm showing you his birth certificate. >> i'm looking at a camera night now. >> you want me to mail it to you? >> no, but -- >> it's on the screen now. take a close look. it says barack hussein obama, born august 4th, 1961 in honolulu. is that a state? yes it was. his mother caucasian, his father african.

what more do you want? he's male, he was born, by the way at 7:24 p.m. in the island of oahu. what more do you want? i'm serious. you say as far as you know? you are playing to the crazies. >> basically, what you're suggesting is -- >> that's what i do for a living. >> it's great. somebody's got to do it. what they're trying to do with their legislation is keep the internet rumors going and keep delegitimizing the president of the united states. >> mr. posey, the chief sponsor of the bill from indiana. "i haven't looked at the evidence." he hasn't looked at the birth certificate. "it's not up to me to to the evidence. i can't swear on a stack of bibles whether he is or is not a legitimate native born american." "he has to release an authentic birth certificate." we keep showing these things. i wonder what they're up to. >> why are they taking the time on legislation? >> it's an old nasty trick to

deamericanize a guy who has a different name like barack obama, to deamericanize a guy like mike dukakis, a totally american guy to try to build the notion there's an american party, the republican party and the un-american party, the democratic party. it's nasty, terrible, divisive politics. it's not e. pluribus unum. it's saying some of us are not eligible to run for office. it's nasty, un-american business. >> you called it as you saw it. >> well, is there another view? >> no. >> okay, thank you. quick question about pennsylvania politics. >> fascinating, democracy is a funny thing, people like choices. arlen specter has been around a long time as a republican and become a democrat, fair enough but the history of switchers is not very positive. very good -- rear the great looking john conley, switched to

becoming a republican? john lindsay, glamorous guy from new york, the future of switch parties. the country sort of, even in pennsylvania where you and i know a lot about it, there's not a big ideological difference between the parties. sometimes they overlap each other. you have pro-choice republicans and pro-life democrats. you know, they disagree on some things that aren't party line but you know what? people do like to you keep your uniform on. it keeps it simple so maybe that's behind toomey. a bit to the right. pennsylvania is not a right state, toomey say right winger. maybe they have something that doesn't seem like what it seems to be, but you know what? he's a brilliant politician and anybody that wants to run against him has to deal with that. he can be quite nasty and hell of an election. i think toomey is in the race. he was down by 20 points in may and what's changed, arlen is a

democrat. people have to reconsider that. if he runs against arlen specter that will be a hell of a great race for the state and good healthy thing to have a choice. democracy is having a choice and i think the people of pennsylvania, well let's let them decide if they don't want a chase chois. if they don't i'll are surprised. >> chris matthews will kick off our coverage -- >> andrea mitchell former radio host in philadelphia whom i first came across in 1974, which say long time ago. >> must have been my mom. i'm trying to tease you, chris. chris is going to kick off our coverage of the president's prime time news coverage at 7:00 p.m. eastern, the president speaks at 8:00 and live annalyss following on msnbc, the place for politics. and coming up, the senate has just voted to reject the bill that would have allowed people to carry concealed

weapons across state lines. the senate fell two votes short of the 60 votes they needed to approve the pro-gun measure. pete williams is mbing news justice correspondent. pete let's talk about the vote because they needed 60. it was non-germane to the authorization bill, 58 votes. what would have been the main issue for the gun control and gun control advocates? >> they're saying that democrats who got this bill defeated are saying it is a defeat for gun control, it certainly is, because it didn't get the votes it needed but nonetheless got 58 votes. it would have said that as a national requirement, anyone who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in their home state could carry that concealed weapon into any other state and the other state would have to honor that concealed weapon permit. 48 states allow concealed weapons, all but wisconsin and illinois, and the supporters of this, led by senator john thune

of south dakota said it's about self-defense. he cites statistics in states that have concealed weapons where they use it robustly the crime rate is low. it's a hotly contested issue. people oppose this say the figures are not right and this would have been eye kaye attic, every state would have been lowered to the lowest common denominator, even though some states have proficiency tests, some even permit from police, other states it's much easier, and it would have equalized those, that's what the opponents said so it was a close vote, andrea and my understanding it needed 60 votes because the opponents could have tried to filibuster, the supporters would have gotten cloture and needed 60 votes to do that so they go to 60 anyway. >> i stand corrected. here you've got a situation where you have shifting arguments because a lot of states writers on this case according to chuck schumer and other critics of the proposal,

people who normally argue for states rights were arguing the opposite side, they were arguing that the gun advocates ought to have the right to basically trump state laws. >> that's right, that a federal law should trump state law. it is an unusual argument, has to be conceded for people who support gun rights to turn the state rights argument on its head. i certainly think that gun heights advocates are not the only people who find states rights to be convenient or not convenient depending on what they want to do. i think the question here is, senator thune has tried this before. his people thought maybe this was a good opportunity, the defense authorization bill which has been used as a pack horse for a lot of other things, they saw an opportunity here, now the question is might they try this as a standalone legislation. my understanding is if they try it they would still need 60 votes to get it through the senate and so often happens on gun issues, andrea, it doesn't

divide along water lines, tends to be more along regional lines. democrats in western states tend to vote for this amendment, democrats in eastern heavily populated states tend to vote against it and that's so often the way these things go. >> you've got people like webb and warner from virginia, other states like virginia that have a strong gun advocacy component, and the national rifle association has a lot of clout there. >> that's right. and so the next vote -- >> -- having the other -- >> that's right, they supported it as well, because they tend to, from western or states where gun rights are very important issue and tend to trump partisan politics. >> pete williams, thanks so much. and coming up -- >> you bet. -- is the president losing some of his political clout by throwing all of his weight behind overhauling health care? "usa today's" susan page joins us next.

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are americans losing faith in president obama? according to a new poll more americans days prove than approve of president obama's handling of health care. susan page, "usa today" washington bureau chief joins us now. susan your poll shows some very startling surprises in the present support on health care and the change, 18 points in the last month? >> what we found was president obama's approval rating is 55%, not bad, that's pretty good. >> pretty good. >> you ask specifically how he's doing on the economy, negative rating. approve on the job on health care, 44%, 50% disapprove. that creates a tough situation for him at the time he's trying

to get through in these final critical weeks before the august recess. his health care plan and where we found his biggest decline and support on the economy, moderate and conservative democrats. bigger loss there is than among independents or republicans and i think that's why we're hearing some complaints from fiscal conservative blue dog democrats in the house that they want changes made in this health care bill before they'll support it. >> that's why besides the fact they hold the balance of power in henry waxman's committee so they need those votes. with the focus on the senate, talking to senator bennett coming up, and then chuck schumer well, but the focus on the senate is going to do, the house members are reluctant to walk off the plank, having done this on stimulus and climate change without knowing where the senate is coming down. >> you're asking members of the house to make a vote in favor of higher taxes on wealthy americans, some of them represent wealthy americans who

don't want their taxes raised. >> in tougher districts. >> that's right, and including some districts that democrats have just won over from republicans that's a tough vote for some house democrats and they don't want to make the vote unless they're sure the senate will, too. why make a tough vote if it's not the funding mechanism that prevail in the end. >> rahm emanuel told the "new york times" that tonight is going to be a report card. is a report card by the president, we accomplished this, we did the stimulus package, we saved the economy from catastrophe, is that good enough for what people want to hear? >> i think at this moment the president probably needs to get, he's gotten gradually more engaged in health care, certainly campaigning for a lot, but it may be time for him to be more specific on exactly what he wants in a package because you do have the sense that the momentum has been stalled because of the debate how you pay for it, what do you do with the public option, on some of the points if he is going to get this through the senate in the time frame he's layed out and

seems serious about trying to get it throudone through the se before the august recess a report card is not enough tonight. this say moment where every eye is going to be on him and he could try to make some news. we'd like him to do that and get things moving again. >> the counter argument would be the minute he gets too specific about what he will take and what he won't take, then all of the opposition attaches to him personally, rather than to various moving parties on the hill. >> and he's been smart, i think, in avoiding some of the mistakes of the clinton era, where they tried to dictate to the congress what it would do on health care but there is a point where you got to make the tough calls and you're going to raise the opposition. there's not a way to avoid backing some of these controversial issues, coming down to some of the details that are delayed, that are now under such fierce debate if you want to get a plan through congress. >> let me ask you about the guns vote just now. do you see any shift there, what i'm being told is that they let some democrats go, that it was a

closer vote than it otherwise would have been because some democratic senators were told satisfy your constituents on guns. >> they knew the measure was going to go down. look at the shift we've seen on democrats in gun control in the space of a decade. democrats used to be the party that stood up for gun control. that cost them in places like west virginia and some of the western states where they've made big gains. you don't see democrats doing that now. you see more and more democrats standing up for gun rights because that reflects the districts and states. >> and in terms of the news conference tonight, what do we expect next? the president will go to the cleveland clinic tomorrow, the mayo clinic which was cited by the white house, has issued statements saying they don't like the house version of this bill. so the mayo clinic was, you know, cited as one of the validators of the clinton approach -- excuse me the obama approach to health care. >> well the mayo clinic raised concerns saying they're not

doing enough to control cost and that's the same message from the congressional budget office. you're not going to get a plan through congress, not going to reassure americans it doesn't cost too much unless you address these concerns about cost because where wha we find in our polling six out of ten americans say obama's proposals cost too much money, that's a big problem as he goes into the heart of the health care debate. >> susan page from "usa today" with disturbing poll numbers as the president goes into the press conference tonight. coming up, republican critics go after conservative democrats who are still on the fence about health care. will that strategy work? senator bob bennett joins us next on msnbc, the place for politics. doctors recommend tylenol... more than any other brand... of pain reliever. tylenol rapid release gels... release medicine fast. so you can stop headaches... and feel better fast.

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in more places: hip, spine, even other bones. (announcer) you should never take reclast if you're on zometa, have low blood calcium, kidney problems. or you're pregnant, plan to become pregnant or nursing. take calcium and vitamin d daily. tell your doctor if you develop severe muscle, bone or joint pain or if you have dental problems, as rarely, jaw problems have been reported. the most common side effects include flu-like symptoms, fever, muscle or joint pain and headache. nothing strengthens you like an old friendship. but when it comes to our bones, we both look to reclast. you've gotta ask your doctor! or call 1-866-51-reclast. year-long protection for on-the-go women. welcome back to "andrea mitchell reports." nancy pelosi said a short while ago that there are enough votes to pass health care reform. watch. >> i think that we are moving closer, we are making progress

and that i have no question that we have the votes on the floor of the house to pass this legislation. >> well, but what about the senate? senator bob bennett, a republican from utah joins us now, thank you, senator. first of all, what prospects are there right now from what you're hearing from senate finance where most of the action has been of coming up with a proposal that will have some bipartisan support? >> right now, the chances of bipartisan support are zero, because the one voice in the room that should be listened to more than anybody else is being ignored, that is the democratic leadership, the direct yore of congressional budget office ehlmandorf who said flatly this is going to turn the cost of health care up and that is a non-starter with all republicans and a lot of democrats. we're not arguing over whether

we need health care reform. we all recognize that we do and we republicans have a host of proposals, but we cannot do it in a way that turns the long-term cost curve up in a face of $17 8 trillion deficit this year and the stimulus package that's not paid for and all the rest of it, when director ehlmandorf made that statement that should have said to everybody, okay, go back to your desks, sit down, recognize you've got to do this in a way that is not going to turn the cost curve up and don't come back until you have a solution to that problem. >> senator john kerry came up with one wrote pproposal, a sur some of the high-value insurance plans. does that help close the gap as far as you're concerned? >> no, no, no, no. that's exactly the wrong way to do it, because they're saying oh, if the cost curve is going up, how do we raise more revenue to cover this?

the reality is that at least a third of the money that we currently spend on health care produces no better results. we don't know exactly how to squeeze that out of the system. we've got to find it out. you made earlier in your conversation you had statements made by the mayo clinic, if every american got his health care from the mayo clinic it would not only be the best but it would be one-fourth cheaper than the national average, and dartmouth says if everyone got his health care in salt lake city, utah, my hometown it would be one-third cheaper than the national average. we can turn the cost curve down and wasting your time saying, oh, how do we close the cost gap by raising taxes is avoiding the heart of the problem that has to be solved. >> of course, in salt lake city and in minnesota, you have a lower wage scale for health professionals. >> no, no. >> so -- okay, correct me. >> no, that's not the issue.

the issue is that we focus more on outcomes than we do procedures. the driving problem with health care costs is that the present system compensates doctors for what they do to you rather than what they do for you, that is if a doctor keeps you healthy, he doesn't get paid, but if he cuts into you or sticks pins into you or runs you through a machine, then he gets paid for those procedures and we have to change that paradigm, and everybody who has worked on changing that paradigm, whether it's safeway, in their self-insured has demonstrated you can turn the cost curve down, you can save money, and increase the quality of the health care you get regardless of where you live. >> senator, our senator producer, ken strickland just passed this note to us that senator hatch, fellow republican, has taken himself out of these bipartisan talks within senate finance saying some of the proposals on the table are things he simply cannot accept so it seems as

though the white house and those trying to come one the bipartisan proposal are taking a step backwards today rather than forwards. >> we're ready. i'm ready. the republicans are more than anxious to do everything we can to solve the health care problem but we want to solve it and we have plans that will solve it in a way that will not break the bank. the bill that i'm cosponsoring with senator wyden has been scored by cbo, a democratic cbo, neutral. >> these are the coopts you've been talking about with senator wyden? >> scored at revenue neutral, no increase in costs and we think long-term it will actually turn the curve downward and save costs, that's what the group says about it so we're ready to deal with the president, if he will just say, okay, what i have proposed is financially

impossible. let's sit down and see what we can come up with, instead he and senator kerry and others are saying, well, if the cost go on up, too bad, we've got to raise taxes. that's a non-starter up here. >> you talked about the importance of the testimony before senator conrad on thursday. on monday he was at the white house, and we don't know what happened inside, but first of all was that the president, you think, trying to get some ideas from the cbo as to what their concerns were or was it trying to pressure the cbo? is it legitimate to bring the umpire in? >> i won't characterize it one way or the other. i wasn't there any more than you were. i think the president is sincere. i'm not thinking he's trying to undermine capitalism in the country. i think he's mistaken on this one. he's made a mistake and he's being a little more stubborn than perhaps he should be. if he would admit that he

started down the wrong track and say, okay, let's all come to the table and go down the right track together, he'd find republicans and moderate democrats more than anxious to go with him. >> what do you want to hear from him today, in his opening statement and in his answers at the press conference? >> if i could give him advice, and i'm not in the business of doing that, i would say to him, "mr. president, your primary message tonight should be slow down. don't set these arbitrary dates whereby the bill has to be passed by this date. that's what you did with the stimulus package and frankly, it got you in trouble, because there were things in the stimulus package with i, with a little more time, we would all recognize don't belong there," and there are aspects of this health care bill you're trying to push through in a hurry by an artificial date. slow down. have more input. have more conversations with more thoughtful people, and we

can solve this problem, but if you insist that it has to be done before we leave for the august recess, you're insisting on something that simply isn't possible. >> senator bob bennett, thank you very much. we'll get an answer to that from the top cabinet official. still coming up this hour, health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius on the president's push for health care reform, will he accept the advice to slow down? i think not. then senator chuck schumer and executive vice president of the nra will be joining us, as in the last hour the senator rejected a pro-gun measure carrying on of concealed weapons across state lines. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. 90s sla. ♪ singer: buckle up, everybody 'cause we're taking a ride ♪

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and tonight, president obama will use his bully pulpit to push health care which he of course is his top legislative

priority. while the president is taking to the air waves in prime time the gop is reaching out over the internet. health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius joins us now. the republicans are all over the place with their internet ads, going after you on this. just now we had a very reasoned interview from one of the more thoughtful people in the senate, bob bennett. his advice to the president would be slow down, that there were mistakes made in the rush to the stimulus bill, things in it they might not have wanted and if they take time to work with people on the hill, that you could develop a bipartisan coalition. is that bad advice? >> well, i think definitely having a bipartisan coalition is what the president has been after all along, andrea, and the good news is on the senate side there are republicans and democrats working hard on this issue. the republicans on the house side pushed away from the table really a couple of months ago, just declaring that they were not going to be part of this

conversation, and that's unfortunate for the american people, who rely on them to look out for comprehensive health reform, but there is definitely bipartisan work on the senate side and that's good news. >> but today you just lost orrin hatch has worked with ted kennedy for years on bipartisan legislation and he walked out of the finance committee meetings with senator bachus, saying there are things considered he simply cannot support. >> again it's unfortunate. there is no finished product out of the senate finance committee. they are still at the table with senator grassley and senator snowe and senator enzi and others very engaged in a dialogue. i hope that senator hatch has a chance to re-think his position and once a work product is ready may welcome on board because this is the most compelling issue facing the american public. it's the most personal issue any of us will have to deal with,

whether we have high quality affordable health care for all americans. >> madam secretary, the mayo clinic was, of course, one of the points, data points that you all used to say that there could be a bending of the curve to bring down costs. the mayo clinic has put out a statement in response to the house version of the bill, which says, although there are some positive provisions in the current house bill, including insurance for all, and payment reform demonstration projects the proposed legislation misses the opportunity to create more affordable quality for health care patients. in fact it will do the opposite. do you share the mayo clinic's view about the house bill? is it a flawed product? >> i think that the president has said from the outset that he is not only interested in paying for the bill, which would be a real step forward for congress the last time they looked at a health benefit, they added billions of dollars in benefits on prescription drugs and didn't pay for a dime of it, so this president said we're not going to add to the deficit.

that's good news and he said we'd want to lower costs overall in the long run. the mayo clinic came back and revisited the position supporting the president's notion that added to both the house and the senate bills should be an independent commission that helps enforce the kind of lower cost, high quality care, and what the head of the mayo clinic said is that proposal is accepted, if the president's recommendation which he's been making, really since early june, becomes part of the final work product, they very much think that this will be a work they can support and will, indeed, lower costs for all americans in the long run. >> you say that the president has said and he has reiterated in all of the interviews that he wants this to be deficit neutral. this is what the senate budget chairman kent conrad had to say to us the other day about the cbo forecast, and the challenge from the white house to the cbo's estimates that it is not deficit neutral. just watch. >> we can all question cbo

scoring. there are things i don't agree with. i have argued with them strenuously that better care coordination would produce more savings than they will score, but at the end of the day we've got to have an objective scorekeeper, and what he's telling us in larger terms, i think, is true, that we have not yet bent the cost curve in the right way. >> and the chairman of the house ways and means committee, charlie rangel has been quoted saying, we checked with his office, they're not denying he said this in the hallway "no one wants to tell the speaker she is moving foo taste and they -- blank -- sure don't want to tell the president" from charlie rangel, concerns on the hill about the cost containment aspects here. >> absolutely and the president shares those concerns. he's working closely with members of congress. he met with the so-called blue dogs yesterday, who are very focused on fiscal pathway out of

this deficit spending we've been in, visited with republican members and democratic members and i think there's a general agreement that we need to strengthen the final work product, make sure that in the long run, we have a lower cost out over not just the first years of the bill, but out into the future. we know it's possible. it exists in places like the mayo clinic and -- >> are we going to tonight, is the president going to lay out what we want and been waiting to hear what proposals would come from the white house with his endorsement? >> i think he's been very specific with members of congress, and really with the american people on not only the principles but what's missing from the bill, and certainly the idea that we have an independent commission that helps reinforce the kind of expenditures that we know will drive quality care, that's the real goal, is to save lives and produce higher quality

care and stop paying for things that we know don't work. too much of that is in our system right now and the president believes that this is an opportunity to really change that system. where we spend more and get worse results than almost any nation on earth. >> hhs secretary kathleen sebelius thank you for joining us. and senator chuck schumer joins us next. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. so much real cheese in such small bites? ♪ baking complete! well, now you know. cheez-it. the big cheese. but i did. you need to talk to your doctor about aspirin. you need to be your own advocate. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. you take care of your kids, now it's time to take care of yourself. including who i trust to look after my money.

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the senate has rejected an amendment that would have allowed gun owners to carry concealed weapons across state lines. a rare legislative victory for the proponents of gun control. senator schumer of new york carried the ball for this. senator, you won. you had votes to spare? >> we did. we had about four or five senators who would have voted our way if we needed them who

didn't have to. >> this was on the defense authorization bill so it was sort of a pack horse for them to stick this amendment on. do you think they'll do this as a standalone? >> they couldn't do it as a standalone. it would be hard to get it to the floor but you know the nra has had a couple of victories here and they reached too far here. this amendment went way beyond their previous amendments. i days greed with the previous ones but this one could have caused real danger. you could have coming into new york city people who would have concealed carry permits who had been convicted of misdemeanors, who had been convicted of possessing guns illegally, who could have been gang members and it would have put our police officers throughout america at real risk and the police chiefs played a major role in helping us here. >> what about the role swapping here of states rights advocates? >> yes. >> talking about the federal side, and you guys talking about the states rights. >> yeah, well, for the last 15

years, i've been on the opposite side of some of the pro-gun people and they've always talked about state's rights, but on this one, they did a 180-degree turn and said no, no, let's go to a national law which is in effect what this would do, lower common denominator would have prevailed nationwide. even among many members, democrats and republicans, whom i spoke to who voted with the nra, they thought this was a poorly crafted overreaching type amendment. >> i noticed that your colleague from new york state up for election for the first time, having been appointed has been a gun rights advocate in the past but came out on your side on this, is that the way the -- >> yeah, i think senator gillibrand -- well it's more than that. i think she believes in the second amendment and she's going to continue to uphold it, but when it comes to reasonable limitations and lets states do

their own laws to protect themselves she's been a staunch advocate and great ally on this. >> chuck schumer, good to see you. >> thanks, andrea. nice to talk to you. up next we have the other side, the gun debate with executive vice president of the national rifle association that, next on "andrea mitchell reports."

for a completely different view on concealed weapons laws in this country, we're joint by the vice president of the nation national rifle association. the argument from chuck schumer and others is that this would have, first of all, violated states' rights. he's long been an advocate of states' rights. and it also would have made it very difficult to produce into cash, gun traffickers who go across state lines. where are they wrong? >> you know, only senator schumer would try sto spin a

39-58 vote into a victory. i think what happened today was an important step forward. in nra's decade-long effort to make right to carry a national resiprocity the law of the land. you know, we started this effort back in the '80s. we only had three states. we're now 40 states that have rights to carry laws. we're up to 37 states with resiprocity. 11 states, including missouri and michigan and oklahoma and tennessee. they already have this type of national law recognizing all permits. so we're going to keep coming back. the american public wants this law. they want to be able to protect themselves. and we'll be back. and i feel very positive about what happened today. >> well, let's talk about this. they say that they have votes in reserve. and that they -- that the vote, you know, they let some democrats who are on the hook go

and vote with you guys to, you know, turn it up to 58-39. but you got 36 states of specific laws regarding gun permits. 31 states prohibit alcohol abusers from obtaining concealed permits, 35 states bar people convicted of certain misdemeanors from becoming gun owners. isn't the trend moving in the opposite direction? >> no, absolutely. as i said, i mean we started with three states on this. 40 states now have right to carry laws. every step of the way while the states enacted the laws we had to listen to the hysterical predictions from senator schumer and a lot of the national media. there's no attempt in those 40 states to even repeal any of the laws. what senator schumer likes is what new york city has. where the rich and the famous, the wall street bankers, the celebrities, the politicians, they all get their permits. yet, the average person in the bronx that most need it is flat out of luck. >> why are police chiefs, mayor bloomberg and the police chief,

mayors of newark, law enforcement officials from all across the country are against your position, ray kelly notably from the new york city police? >> hey, i understand some of the police politicians that work for the mayors are on the side of the mayors on this issue. but let me tell you something, you talk to rank and file law enforcement officers around this country, they want -- >> i have, wayne. i have. and i don't think it's fair to call ray kelly a police politician. he was a rank and file guy who rose up through the ranks and if anything was not political enough to survive under the previous mayor, rudy giuliani and has been the leading police chief in the nation and leading anti-terrorist police chief in the nation. >> and i've watched him change his position on issues vofrg the second amendment because he works for mayor bloomberg. now i can tell you this, you talk to police families, they know at the scene of the crime there are only two people there, the criminal and the victim.

they do not want their families to be defenseless. they know they come in despite all the good intentions after the fact. when seconds matter despite all their good intentions, the police are minutes away. and the american public wants to be able to protect themselves. it's a very core of american consciousness is a fundamental root belief that i have a right to protect myself. senator schumer may not agree with that. michael bloomberg, despite he has armed security may not agree with that, but i'll tell you the american people agree with it. and we're going to be back and we will win this and make this a law of the land. >> and we'll be back also. always good to see you. we have to leave it there. we're out of time. to be continued. i'm andrea mitch until washington. coming up tomorrow on the program, republican senator orrin hatch and contessa brewer picks up our coverage next. sav! lower hotel booking fees mean you get a lower total price. plus, if another orbitz customer then books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically.

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the dea is raiding a houston office of michael jackson's

doctor, the one with him when the pop star died. could criminal charges follow? will it help investigators determine if someone else is at fault in jackson's death. tough challenge ahead for the white house. how do you convince republicans to go along with this health care reform plan if you can't even convince some democrats it's a good idea? i'll ask a member of president obama's team if he's offering a compelling overhaul plan. criminal charges for a mom that watched her son grow morbidly obese. what is the responsibility of a parent whose kid likes to eat. a church passes out $25,000 to its members. wait until you hear how they're supposed to spend the money. welcome to msnbc on this wednesday, everyone let's get to the big story we're following. right now, federal agents are raiding the houston office of michael jackson's personal physician. the drug enforcement agency is working with l.a. police to execute a search warrant at the armstrong medical clinic.

officials seized medical records from inside the building. earlier we learned the l.a. coroner's office wants to ask dr. conrad murray more questions. murray was with jackson when the king of pop died and detectives already questioned murray twice. nbc's janet chandling is on the phone with me now. what you are watching? >> reporter: well, it turned into a crowd scene here, contessa. houston police circled the clinic. a neighborhood has come out in full forcement we understand that search warrant right now is still being executed. authorities have been here several hours. in large contingent from the houston office of the dea and the houston police department are here in support of two los angeles police department investigators. merely for support. the lapd officers are taking the lead. one of them being an officer dan myers. and they've been in there now for several hours. we've been told that there are two nails on the search warrant, dr. conrad murray and the