mr. obama was born in the u.s. but that wing nut base of the republican party that traffics in this kind of nonsense is threatening to become a big problem for the gop. at least if the party wishes to grab hold of reality on its way back to power. think this talk isn't important? do you remember that the guy who shot and killed the guard at the holocaust museum was one of these people? much more on that later. plus, secretary of state hillary clinton gets his overseas with questions about her ultimate presidential ambitions. the people of thailand want to know. the latest on that and the politics fix. if you think the fight over health care is rough, check out what just happened in south korea's parliament. we'll get to that real political fight in the "hardball" sideshow. and a programming note. we'll be back at 7:00 p.m. eefrtern tonight with a new addition of "hardball." at 8:00, rachel maddow and nancy snyderman join me as we bring you president obama's news conference. at 9:00 eastern, it's the rachel

maddow show and we'll be back at 10 hook with a special "hardball." at 11:00, time for the new ed show with ed schulze. first, president obama's fight to win public support for health care. we're joined by david axelrod. thank you for join us. it's a big night tort president. before we get to health care which is right on the front burner right now, what do you make of these members of the u.s. congress, including senator shelby out there saying they don't know whether barack obama is legitimate as president. they don't know whether he's a native born american or not. >> i got to tell you, chris, given the problems that we have to deal with in this country and the struggles that people are going through in their daily lives i would think they'd be awfully frustrated that time was being wasted on something as silly and trite as that. i thought we left this behind when in the campaign when people were challenging both mccain and obama over whether they were constitutionally qualified.

those issues were resolved. this is a heck of a time to resurface them. >> let me ask you about health care. is there any feature of this bill that's being debated in the senate finance committee especially right now where the president will tell us what he wants? will he say he wants individual mandates, employer mandates, something on portability, something on pre-existing conditions? is there anywhere he will say i'm taking the lead, i want this in the bill? >> chris, a number of these things have been broadly agreed to, not just in the senate finance committee but in all the five committees that are considering this legislation. certainly banning the exclusion of people who have pre-existing conditions from getting health coverage is one of those. there are a series of health insurance reforms that are going to be very important for people who have insurance that everybody agrees to, in fact, 80% of what would go into a health insurance reform plan, a health reform plan are agreed

to. there are a few issues left it need to be resolved and that's what's being discussed. >> where is the president on an individual mandate, in other words, the requirement that young and healthy people have to share the costs of national health care? is he for that? >> the president has said that he embraces the concept that everybody should be in the system, and the reason is simple. every single american is paying for those who are not covered now. to the tune of $1,000 or $1200 per family in their health care premiums to pay for unreimbursed care. so it's important that we deal with that issue. >> let me ask you about, i guess i have to ask the question, what's in it for people who are insured. >> yeah, i think it's a very good question and it's one the rez will address tonight. and you know, other than the stability which is primary that if you lose your job, change your job, move, if you become ill, you'll still have coverage

and it will for bid insurance companies to do some of the things that they've done before such as banning people who have pre-existing conditions such as removing from coverage people who get sick. we have this perversion in the system called rescissions that allows insurance companies to say you know what? we didn't realize you were going to have this serious illness and so we're rescinding your coverage. all of those kinds of reforms will be part of this package, and so there's an enormous amount to be gained. and understand that in terms of bending the cost curve of health care, people in this country are paying 10% more every year. in the last decade, their health care costs have doubled. their out of pocket costs have increased by a third. and there is more and more more and more people are ununder insured losing their insurance. we have to chain the dynamic here and that's important for

everyone whether they have insurance or not. >> up on capitol hill where i worked all those years they had the federal employees credit union where you could borrow money say for a big purchase like a car and get it at pretty low interest because nobody was making any money on it. it was a shared cooperative. is that the role model perhaps for kind of a co-op which would meet the needs that democratic liberals want to have for a public option and may not fend the conservatives to the point they wouldn't be on board the bill? do you think it's something the president would go for. >> i think the public choice, the public option he has proposed would function in much the same way. it's not going to be subsidized more than private plans would be subsidized. the administrative costs would be lower because it would be a not for profit and that would force the insurance companies to compete. it's a way of keeping the insurance companies honest and creating more competition and so he believes that the public choice is the way to achieve that. others may have other ideas. i've said many times that the

president is interested in moving this process forward. and so he's not drawing bright lines in the sand except fon a few issues that this has to certainly it has to pay for itself. we can't add to our deficits through this reform. and it has to achieve the goal of bending the cost curve on the growth of costs in health care. >> you know what the conservatives are most concerned about a national health system like have you in britain. they don't want a big bureaucracy controlling all decisions about rationing any kinds of operations you might need or a heart transplant or liver france plant and don't want the federal government decidinging that. is a cooperative something that our president could accept rather than that kind of big bulky english style bureaucracy? >> look, chris, nothing that has been proposed either a public plan or the co-op would deliver a single pair system of the sort

the republicans who oppose this have held up. that's a strawman. the fact of the matter is if you want to talk about rationing, there's a lot going on in will your health system today controlled by the insurance companies who are denying people care that they need. so what we need are insurance reforms that will protect consumers in this process, and that will be delivered through this health care reform. >> the big question has been raised by some democrats 19 the democrats in the house have raised the question of abortion. the hide amendment is strict on this 37 dick durbin said the hide amendment still obtains, you cannot use federal money for abortions, period. is that going to be the case with regard to a national health bill. >> i know this issue is being discussed and there are people of great concern about this. our position is we ought not to be dragging that issue into this debate. we want to get people health care that they can afford. we want to hold down this

inexorable prodigious rise in rates that are crushing people, businesses, and the government and we ought to focus on the main issue and not make this another forum for that debate. >> but if the federal government spends money on abortions, that means people who believe abortion is evil would be forced to have their tax money go to pay for abortions. how do you justify that? >> i think that if people have the option to -- we want to provide people with choice within the health care system and they also will make a choice about their own personal decisions. we are not prescribing you know, that they choose abortion. in fact, the president has talked about discouraging abortion, but to me, this is a way of diverting the debate from the main issue which is what we're going to do about our runway health care costs. >> those 19 democrats who wrote the letter to the president

weren't trying to divert. they're probably for national health insurance. i'm asking you, can you promise monies paid by the government for the health plan will not go to pay for abortions along the lines of the height amendment which makes it clear you cannot do that. >> i'm sure this issue is being discussed and i'm sure we will arrive at a solution people can live with. >> let me ask you the last question, timing of this. the recess coming up in august. is there a sense on your part that it's now or never, that if you let this slip into the fall, that the organized opposition to any kind of national health effort will win the fight over the recess and you'll have an even tougher time when you get back. >> that is the game plan that will senator demint laid out in his conference call with conservatives over the week when he said you know, if we stop him now, we can break obama. well, it's the american people being broken by the costs of this health care system. i believe that we need to move

forward. understand that even if this bill passes out of the house and passes out of the senate, individual bills, we're still go to have a big debate in the fall as they try and reconcile the two. the opponents want to stop the process now. they want to stop thoughtful consideration and want to stop the process from going forward and i think that would be a disaster for the american people. >> thanks so much for joining us on "hardball." david axelrod, senior adviser to the president. a big night for everybody tonight, including everybody watching tonight. everybody cares about health care. thank you very much, david. >> good to be with you. coming up, republican reaction from former presidential candidate rudy giuliani. he's going to be right here at this table. and a woman in a town hall meeting in delaware rails about the validity of president obama's birth certificate. how big a problem does the republican party have with its lunatic fringe. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. (announcer) roundup extended control

does two jobs... at once. one: kills weeds to the root. two: forms a barrier, preventing new ones for up to four months. roundup extended control. coming up, another look at the

so-called birther movement. the people who don't believe president obama is a u.s. citizen. is this a problem for the republicans? the chevy open ho. where getting a new vehicle is easy. because the price on the tag is the price you pay on remaining '08 and '09 models. you'll find low, straightforward pricing. it's simple. now get an '09 silverado xfe with an epa estimated 21 mpg highway for under 28 thousand after all offers. go to chevy.com/openhouse for more details. has the fastest serve in the history of professional tennis. so i've come to this court to challenge his speed. ...on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can book travel plans faster, check my account balances faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than andy roddick. (announcer) "switch to the nations fastest 3g network"

welcome back to "hardball." with us now the former mayor of new york city, rudy giuliani. thank you. >> nice to be with you. >> i keep thinking, are you going to run for governor? >> i don't know. i haven't made a decision like you did. >> i made a decision i'm not running. so i can give you an answer. i'm not running. are you? >> i don't know yet. >> do you think you can fok off paterson. >> i have no idea. >> andrew cuomo, he's tougher, isn't he? he's tougher than paterson. >> andrew cuomo is ahead of governor paterson. who knows. >> you're a vote behind. you're beating paterson. how are you doing with cuomo. >> a little behind. but you can beat him. you endorsed his dad. >> maybe his dad will endorse me if i run. >> let me ask you about health care tonight.

you're a republican. is this a partisan issue, opposition to the president's health care plan? like demint says, beat him and make it his waterloo like he's napoleon or somebody. >> i think there's an issue of principle for me. i think the president is making a fundamental mistake and going to ruin our health care system by creating this whatever you want to call it, massive government insurance program. the government already dominates too much of the health care market and will totally obliterate the health care market like taking over the automotive industry, taking over the financial industry and the banks, now health care and then eventually energy. we'll have nothing left. >> what does your party do. let me put it on your side. what's your person who gets up in the morning, catches the bus but doesn't have health karat work? what are you going to do for them. >> i think we change the tax code to make it possible for people to deduct the cost of health care. try to reduce the advantage that you get for employer-based health care. i think we try to work on

reducing the cost of health care. >> is that going to. >> tort reform. >> is that going to get a person insured. >> i understand they're good ideas. that's not going to get a working guy or woman insured is it. >> it will. by making the cost down. most of the that don't have health insurance, at least half of them have televisions, they have cars, they have cell phones. they have lots of stuff. they don't buy it because either they don't want it because they're too young. you say you don't want it. >> 70% of the people are under 45. >> they make that choice. if you can price a product around 7,000, $8,000 instead of 15,000, $16,000, you'll end up with people buying it. >> in new york and every other state in the union, you make a younger driver who turns 16 or 17 have to pay insurance if they want to get on the highway. what's wrong with saying like they do in massachusetts you've got to kick in, because if you get in trouble, somebody's going to have to help pay for that.

>> the more we reduce the number of choices we have, the less we become america. you get the choice not to have health insurance. >> you get the choice to go to the er and have somebody else pay for it. >> or not if you're in a state where they don't do that. >> they have to take care of you no matter what. isn't that what republicans are saying to poor people, tough luck, go to the emergency room. >> we're saying we do not want to become canada or comaend or a socialized medicine country. to say this is nationalized health insurance is just. >> you don't want to have a program to provide insurance for the uninsured. >> tries to bring down the cost of private health insurance and within the means of people. >> by the way, your party was this complete control of this government till recently. you had both houses of congress and you didn't do what you just said you wanted to do. >> the best reform ever for seniors in terms of bringing down the cost of drugs. the republican party did that and got in trouble. >> apparently that's working

out. >> it is working out well and president bush who gets tremendous amount of blame for everything which he shouldn't should get credit for that. >> you're a big city guy. gun control is important in big cities. in other words, you don't like this right to carry thing from out in south dakota that says you can take a right to carry license out of south dakota and walk into new york state with it. >> states rights is, new york should be able to make its choice. >> so you're against this deal. >> california should make their choice. that's a much better solution. >> you're against the thing they tried to do today. >> a hatter of states right. >> let me ask you about sotomayor. she's a thorker. she's of puerto rican descent. >> i like all that. >> would you vote for her? you're a lawyer. you're a former prosecutor. you know as much as anybody could know. >> probably the answer is probably yes. and i'll tell you probably yes is it would have been the aim for ginsburg and.

drier briar. >> and for briar on the theory that i believe that the president gets his choice when we elected barack obama barack obama, we didn't think he would get a conservative justice. on that theory, they should have voted for roberts and alito. so there is a bit of hypocrisy here. >> how about bork. >> and the. >> would you have gone that far for bork. >> i would have voted for bork, highly qualified. >> let me ask you about governor palin. you've been saying nice things about her. i wonder if that's just political. >> no. there's no need. >> you're from very different wings of the party than she is. >> i respect her. i think she was treated horribly. >> by whom. >> by everyone. >> hey, i keepable her up and saying she's the most exciting politician in the country. i would love to see the republicans take her seriously. >> i took her to yankee stadium. i was kind of concerned about it. bronx is democratic territory. they gave her a tremendous reception. i think audience has got to be

80% democrat. they all wanted her autograph, wanted to see what she looked like. she has that star quality. >> i agree. >> of barack obama. >> mr. republican, would you vote for her if she ran against barack obama. >> if she ran against barack obama. >> you're darned right i would. >> would you support her if sa she were the nominee of the republican party generally. >> if she was the nominee able to win the nomination of the party. >> if she called you up. >> i don't know that i'd support her right now with all the group of candidates. >> suppose she asked you to run with her. >> i'm not going to answer that question. >> why not? it's a fun question. >> you still have political hopes then. otherwise you would answer the question. that's a fascinating idea, attractive candidate like that, a dazzler from the right. i'm from the center of the republican party or even the moderate ring. i'd be a perfect running mate for her. >> i'm running to for vice president. i never had any desire to run

for vice president. >> you're too proud. let me ask you about this native born thing. >> we should get off that. >> what do you make of people like shelby saying things like he's saying? these aren't mistakes. these are deliberate statements. i haven't seen any birth certificate. that's the senator from al bham. a spokesman for congresswoman blackburn says people are losing faith in the system because he won't show his birth certificate. poser, look at these. i've got the birth certificate right there. there it is again. i keep thoughing it to you. posey says he can't swear on a stack of bibles he's a citizen or not. rush limbaugh says god and barack obama, neither one has a birth certificate. what is this about in your party? >> i don't know. i think something we should get off. >> it's the un-americanization of a candidate. what does your battery do that? every time, they do it over and over again. >> look what the democrats did to george bush.

i mean, he's a criminal. he should be investigated. he should be prosecuted. >> no, no, but this undocumented alien crap that did rush limbaugh is pushing that he's somehow undocumented. lou dobbs does it. he's not documented. why do you keep pushing that thing? >> you mean, why do some people in my party push it. >> rush limbaugh, you guys all think he's great, rush limbaugh. >> great on a number of things. >> nine house members pushing the story. >> every party has disagreements. >> does it have whack jobs? >> every party takes up issues that aren't the best issues and we can't be responsible for all of it the democrats have all of that. >> but they're in your play pen and you're responsible for them. let me put this to rest. the reason i brought this up is the guy who shot up the hole cost you museum, these full mooners are spreading this talk and people pick up on it and think god's on their side and doing something about it. >> i think the republican party

would be much better off if we stuck to the issues. there's nothing wrong with barack obama. i think he's a fine person, got a wonderful taem. i think he's doing -- in certain respects i admire the things he's been able to do. i think he has the wrong ideas. this is a fight about principle, not about whether he's a -- that's over with. >> you have more of an electoral future than hillary clinton? >> i have no idea. >> i've been saying -- i said you'd both be the nominees. i can't predict. politics is phenomenal. >> it is phenomenal. this is a great period of time. >> my best to your love. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much, rudy giuliani. you next he is running for governor and thinks he can beat the younger cuomo even though he love the older cuomo. up next, is governor mark sanford still wearing his ring? we'll tell you the "hardball" sideshow. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. summer clearance is here,

and it's the best time to get some of the best deals. get in now and get the chrysler town & country with

a generous cash allowance, or 0% financing for 60 months. the trail rated jeep grand cherokee also comes with a cash allowance or 0% financing for 60 months. or choose a hard working all new dodge ram truck with a cash allowance that's tough to beat. all with our best in the business lifetime powertrain warranty. so hurry come see the deals we've built for you at the dodge chrysler and jeep summer clearance. you have questions. who can give you the financial advice you need? where will you find the stability and resources to keep you ahead of this rapidly evolving world? these are tough questions. that's why we brought together two of the most powerful names in the industry. introducing morgan stanley smith barney. here to rethink wealth management. here to answer... your questions. morgan stanley smith barney. a new wealth management firm with over 130 years of experience. i just gave you some at the restaurant. yea i know. i threw them out. they were old so... old!

they are rollover minutes. they are as good as new. ya know not everyone gets to keep their unused minutes. and these days we can't afford to be wasteful. saving minutes... ...saves money. yea. (announcer) only at&t's familytalk with rollover saves your family's unused minutes. and saving minutes saves money. for back to school, get the pantech matrix for $29.99 after mail-in rebate.

back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. first up, it's hard to change the subject. just last month, south carolina governor mark sanford disappeared to buenos aires and admitted to a connection with a argentinean woman. yesterday, he was hoping to get back to business with a press conference in a local dmv in order to talk about federal i.d. cards. well, the questioning didn't go as planned. >> do you think your affair will always be a distraction? be. >> life and the choices that we make begin each day anew, so it's as much a distraction as you want to make it. i'm going to move on with my life. i'll put it to you this way. have you made a mistake large or small in your life?

>> i'm asking. >> you no, i'm asking you. >> where's your ring. >> what's that. >> where's the wedding ring? >> governor, why aren't you wearing it? you're still married to your wife, correct? or are you still taking trips down to argentina to see your soul mate? >> keep going. >> why do politicians have to go through this ritual of calling things like this mistakes? did he think it was his wife down there waiting for him in argentina? did he make a mistake? did he think it was his wife he was writing those e-mails to? why doesn't he just say it is what it is. if he fell for the woman, shouldn't he keep his feelings about it to himself andtis family? why do these guys have to debase themselves for us. next up, catch the scene in south korea's parliament earlier today. members from the ruling party were hoping for a speedy vote for a reform bill that would ease restrictions on owner sip of media networks. to stop them from doing it some opposition members of congress

blocked the door with a pile of furniture at which point the ruling party forced their way through the door and pea gan to conduct the door. at this point, the opposition leaders tried to stop the vote. they failed. the bill ended up being passed. talk about a sharp elbow democracy. now for tonight's big number. back in may, not so long ago, born again democrat senator arlen specter led republican pat tomby by 20 points. what a difference a few months have made. old tombmy has closed the gap. specter now leads tomby 45-44 which means it's a one-point race. given the limitations of polling it basically means it's a tie. folks, anything can happen here. people in pennsylvania had this crazy idea democracy means having a choice. we've got a one-point race for the senate in the 2010. tonight's big number. up next, nutty questions about the president's birth versatile

are being raises not only in republican town hall meetings but also in the halls of congress. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. can unlock nature's power? [ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene helps make hair strong against damage in 14 days. good housekeeping gave it their seal. damage protection results leading salon brands can't beat. [ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene. simple ingredients like soft white winter wheat gathered together for 22 grams of whole grain goodness. it's what makes triscuit worth every bite.

triscuit. weave some wonder.

s access www.sprintrelay.com. i'm rebecca jarvis with your market wrap. the closing bell brought antidepressant to the winning streak for the dow and the s&p. but the 11th straight day of gains for the nasdaq. the dow jones industrials lost 34 points. the s&p 500 down half a point and the nasdaq added about ten points. disappointing earnings from morgan stanley and well fargo put a damper on finishes today. wells fargo ended the day 3.5% lower. morgan stanley lost a fraction of a percent. qualcomm shares are losing ground in after hours trading

reporting earnings slightly lower than last year but still better than wall street expected. ebay also the online auctioneer reported lower earnings but still managed to beat expectations. and amazon says it will buy the online shoe store zap pos.com for about $807 million in stock. an additional $40 million in cash and stock will go to zap pos employees. that's it from cnbc. we're first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." tonight, president obama holds his fourth primetime press conference but some folks watch at home don't believe he's a legitimate president. why? because some right wing conspiracy freaks are fueling rumors he's not an american because he does not have a birth certificate. that's baloney but that doesn't stop -- actually this woman at

republican.congressman mike castle's town hall meeting in delaware. let's take a watch. >> i want to go back to january 20th and i want to know why were you people ignoring his birth certificate? he is not an american citizen. he is a citizen of kenya. >> loony tunes. and this craziness has spread to capitol hill for real where a group of congressional republicans is push a bill requiring presidential candidates to provide their birth certificates. dee dee myers was president sent to bill clinton and a contributing editor to "vanity fai fair". this isn't a joke actually. senator shelby, richard shelby has been around a long time from alabama, he says i haven't seen any birth certificate. putting out that word.

we've got somebody out here, congresswoman blackburn. we know her pretty well from tennessee said her persons putting the word out, people are losing faith in our system because they haven't seen his birth certificate. the posey, bill posey from florida who's a u.s. congressman saying i can't swear on a stack of bibles whether he is or he isn't a legitimate citizen. randy neugebauer doesn't know if obama is a citizen or not opening questioning whether he's an undocumented alien. what's this about? it smacks to me of what the republicans did to mike dukakis, deamericanize the guy. >> there was a certain element that tried to do that from the beginning of the campaign to the end. i guess it's coming back around now because of kopgman castle's town hall which we saw. you didn't show it just now but the crowd turned on him when he said i think he's an american citizen. they went with the woman.

every shred of evidence suggests that his birth certificate is legitimate. you have a copy of it right here. state officials in hawaii. >> i feel like i'm in court here. got to defend the guy. >> state officials in hawaii. >> a farm in california somewhere. we have to disclose the document here? what's going on here. >> can you confirm the chain of custody of this document, sir? >> take this, excuse me. let me move onto the other witness here. excuse me for a second. back to you in a minute. tony blak blankly, what is it about the republican party that contains this wing. >> it's about american politics. both parties inevitably have some faction or fraction of their base that refuses to accept a certain fact or believe something wrong about the other candidate. we had the bush derangement syndrome. we had people who thought that kennedy couldn't keep a secret from the pope because evers a catholic. i remember hearing friends of parents of mine say that. you had people who thought

eisenhower was a communist. it didn't matter his whole history. what happens is the politicians. >> and his brother milton were both communists, yeah. >> what happens in politics is we all understand is that no politics wants to offend any part of his base. >> even those who are certifiable. >> so for instance, i can remember many liberal democratic, not even liberal democratic congressmen over the last eight years who wouldn't fundamentally disagree with the crazy stuff some of their people said about george bush or the vice president. it didn't mean they shared the view. as a rack calmater, we've all been in politics. >> before we go completely illegitimate here, because i want to talk about this congressman on the show last night. had to water board him last night. john camp bell came on with the pretense he was just doing this to clear the air as if it needed to be cleared. here he is talking about a requirement in this bill that presidential candidates show their birth certificates like they're going tore a job

somewhere. i don't care if they have to show their birth certificates but we know why they're doing this. >> do you have any doubts, congressman, about the authentic native birth in this country of our president? do you have any doubts. >> chris, my, it doesn't matter. >> do you have any doubts. >> it doesn't matter if i have doubts or not. >> a simple question. no, no. you are feeding the whacko wing of your party. do you believe that barack obama is a legitimate native-born american or not? >> that is not what this bill is about, chris. >> what do you believe? >> as far as i know, yes, okay? >> as far as you know? i'm showing you his birth certificate. >> i'm looking in a camera right now. i can't see that. >> do you want me to mail it to you? >> no. >> he was a good sport about it. clearly he changed direction. he went from saying i don't know to i know. >> that reminded me of what hillary did during the campaign when she said to the best of my

knowledge she didn't know. same exact thing. >> not the same exact thing. she didn't want to offend that part of her. >> no, she wanted to win the prize. if you can get doubt about your opponent's bake right to run, you've got a leg up on them. >> that's the thing. you were having fun. he was willing a little bit. >> he was a good sport. crazy to cosponsor a bill he didn't really believe in though. >> i think he thinks it helps in his base. the problem for the republican party now is they're trying to rebuild a base that's been shrunken over events in the last decade and it doesn't help when you build from the fringes in, you need to build from the middle out. >> more pressure from the democratic side to be even stephen here. >> believes that the ohio election results were fixed. diebold company was in league with the republicans and they fixed the machines out there. >> that's a good one. >> would you say that's equivalent? do you want to defend that.

>> therefore not a legitimate president in either election. >>. >> i believe that bush was -- i mean he didn't win the popular vote. >> do you believe that those machines were fixed? >> no, of course, not. i want to remind the people that bush did not get a majority of the popular vote in 2000. i still believe that he was legitimately elected. >> you guys are both communication experts. we both all did it, we all three ex-communications experts. what's he have to do tonight, the president. >> has to reassure the person public he has a plan for health care that's going to be good for their individual families. >> and for people who have health insurance. >> right, because 90% of americans have health insurance and the majority of people feel pretty good about that, although the healthier they are the better they feel about their insurance which is an interesting pickle. >> the president seems to be off the tracks a bit. right now, i feel with orrin

hatch dropping off the committee of thing, it's down to two republicans, olympia snow of maine and karls grassley of ohio on the finance committee and mikencely from wyoming. it's pretty precarious now for them. >> got to get republicans to help them. >> i don't know the headcount. counts don't matter till you're up to the vote. >> i'm talking about getting to the floor. >> here's the fundamental probt president has. his vision as he's described it about health care and the deficits are not consistent with what the cbo says the legislation coming up is about. that contradiction he's got to fix somehow. fix the legislation so it's consistent with his vision what he's been calling for since the campaign or modify his vision in some way. if he keeps trying to purpose those two things together, i think eventually he's going to lose more and more ground. he needs to make a cold decision -- i think this is going to happen in september or october. not next week. he needs to decide which one of

those pieces do i want to fix, change my vision. >> you're saying it's a compromise. >> he's got to be consistent. >> did you hear that? >> i agree that he's right now he's losing the argument on whether it will save money. you can may a strong argument that more people will be covered. but cbo keeps saying the costs are going to rise, not shrink. >> the cost of the iraq war before the war. and the way republican -- >> they were trying to go along with it by leading wiggle room and saying i told you so. >> here's the democrats' problem. republicans or any opponents of the president can take his own words when political ju-jitsu of what he wants to accomplish and impose them on the legislation that's coming out. >> you're good at this. thank you very much. you both believe the president's an actual native born american. right? >> with all my heart. >> thank you, dee dee myers,

tony blankley. up next, a look ahead to tonight's news conference with president obama. can you win public support for a historic health care plan tonight. this is the night. this is "hardball" only on msnbc. osts. dallas. detroit. different rates. well with us, it's the same flat rate. same flat rate. boston. boise? same flat rate. alabama. alaska? with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. dude's good. dude's real good. dudes. priority mail flat rate boxes only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. a little more me time. so there's venus spa breeze. with soft lathering shave gel bars. it pampers and smoothes your skin... with every stroke. so treat yourself. venus spa breeze.

purchase. coming up tonight, president obama's primetime news conference. what does he need to say to get health care done? [ revving ] [ engine powers down ] gentlemen, you booked your hotels on orbitz. well, the price went down, so you're all getting a check

thanks. for the difference. except for you -- you didn't book with orbitz, so you're not getting a check. well, i think we've all learned a valuable lesson today. good day, gentlemen. thanks a lot. thank you. introducing hotel price assurance, where if another orbitz customer books the same hotel for less, we send you a check for the difference, automatically. ...or if you're already sick... ...or if you lose your job. your health insurance shouldn't either. so let's fix health care. if everyone's covered, we can make health care as affordable as possible. and the words "pre-existing condition" become a thing of the past... we're america's health insurance companies. supporting bipartisan reform that congress can build on. you could buy 300 bottles of water. or just one brita filter.

( drop plinks ) brita-- better for the environment and your wallet. does two jobs... at once. one: kills weeds to the root. two: forms a barrier, preventing new ones for up to four months. roundup extended control. we're back. time now for the politics fix. howard fineman, political analyst and roger simon from politico. roger, your piece the other day

in "politico" your experience firsthand about walter cronkite was dreamy. it was wonderful. >> thank you. >> what does the president got to do? can he still do it? you're pretty good at the bottom line. is it already lost? health care? >> no, it's not lost. the american people want some version of health care reform and they want the reassurance he's going to try to give them tonight. i was over listening to the spin from them. two key words -- security and stability. >> can you tell me who he was briefing? >> no, i can't. >> i think i can guess, though, right? >> security and stability. the republicans have had success in saying watch out for this risky thing that's going to destabilize the insurance you already have. so his main audience tonight are the 85% of the american people who already have ininsurance. >> not the poor people who work hard and don't have health insurance, but the people who find out after they get in trouble in terms of medical challenge he's nthey're not cov.

>> he's been trying to scare people into the arms of the health care reform. if we don't reform the system it will go bankrupt and everyone will lose their insurance. that's what he said. the stroubl the cbo statement sort of knocked the props from under that. >> it outbid them for fear. >> we'll go bankrupt faster under your system. and the desire for change has been dulled a little bit. six months ago, seven months ago, eight months ago. get rid of the old guys. change is wonderful. now people are saying hey, what if it's expensive? what if my tacks are going to go up? what if i might lose my job? is this plan really a good idea? he's got sell those people on the fact that this change will be good for them, not just to scare them into the arms -- >> let's talk about whether it really works in these kinds of moments. my experience on capitol hill is when you want to get down to the stroke strokes, you have to get down to the bomb and you need two or three members to do

something for you. is television the right medium? would he be better off having dinner to night with chuck grassley or mike enzi? than meeting 5 million people tonight? >> i think the easy answer is he has to do both. the numbers are slipping on this. and roger is right, people haven't been quite scared into the arms of health care reform, but they are also in this recession, fearful of change, concern about keeping the health care that they have. so one of the things that obama is going to stress tonight is new insurance regulation that will make sure you can keep the health care you have, you can move it from job to job. >> why is that the most important thing -- >> wait a minute. if you have a pre-existing condition and you go to another health care company, they can't deny your benefits. he's going to stress the stability side of the equation for exactly the reasons he has said. and that's necessary. >> do you remember maryland, a state that had 99% insmurpd he

said if a criminal has a right to a lawyer, the average working family has a right to a doctor. and i asked why it worked? he said because people are worried about losing their jobs and the first thing they worry about losing their job if you're a spouse or a worker is you're going to lose your health insurance. so talk to those people. >> in fairness, the president has already accomplished quite a bit. some things are now all accepted by all sides in this matter that weren't accepted just a few years ago. universality, the fact that you get to keep your health insurance, the fact that insurance companies will no longer be allowed to turn people down. >> pre-existing conditions, those are the language of people who care. >> that's what i leader at the white house today. i believe we'll hear it tonight. >> howard fineman, roger simon, back in a minute with more of "the fix." ♪

(laughing) good night buddy good morning dad (announcer) oreo milk's favorite cookie milk's favorite cookie. now available in a cookie straw. new oreo fun stix

[ door closes ] [ footsteps ] [ man sighs ] whew! a lot goes through your mind after an accident.

but with liberty mutual, insurance issues won't. man: man! because we offer unlimited rental coverage, new car replacement, and accident forgiveness to help ease your mind.

>> will we ever get to see you as president of the united states? >> wow, that's not anything i'm at all thinking about. i think the job i have now is incredibly demanding. >> wow, they want to know. the people demand to know in thailand are you going to be president some day. >> i don't know, she would probably make a pretty good candidate. she would only be 69 and joe biden would be 74. >> she'll be coming off the world stage to become president. >> much smarter campaign with smarter people and a different pollster. >> i think she would have a different tone.

she would have the gravitas already. >> i am just always in awe of the ir repeszability of the clintons. they're going to keep their options open wherever it is on the planet. >> i don't always show all fairness. a lot of these guys, including her. but why should she foreclose it? >> she shouldn't. the only way is if they gave her the supreme court instead. >> gave her? that would be -- >> i thought she was going to be appointed this time. i really did. >> they're over in island, but she's considering this as though she were sitting here on hardball. >> we brought it here -- >> she knew that i was going to -- >> wherever she goes, whatever she says anywhere on the planet, no matter how much of a throwaway and a setup press conference she's going to make news and people are going to watch. >> i think she's doing well but

not too fine. she does not upstage the president or try to. >> she's been ministerial. she's done the job without showing off. >> exactly. >> i think she'll continue to. she's nothing if not disciplined. >> bill clinton a special envoy. how has he been doing? >> he's been doing well. he's been doing everything that an ex-president should do. that doesn't include golf and serve on the board of direct forps he's been doing some good stuff. >> he has. and all of his work as far as healthy foods for kids in schools, which there has been a lot of attention to lately, it's very worthy stuff. >> this coalition with the clintons, nobody talks or writes about it. it's not just the middle east. they are together as a party, the democrats like they've never been before because of this appointment. the clintons are key to any success barack has. join us again one hour from now at 7:00 eastern for more "ha

"hardball" live. the press conference will be right here on msnbc. now it's time for "the ed show" with ed shultz. >> i'm ed shultz. this is "the ed show." good evening, americans. it's "the ed show" on msnbc. a top insurance company bags nearly $1 billion in profit for one quarter. executives are rake it in and american families are paying for it. i want to know what politician is willing to defend this system. i'll put senators rockefeller boxer and barrasso on the hot seat tonight. a top political leader in canada is going to tell me what it's really like to be healthy north

of the border and have universal health care. it's in my "playbook." arlen specter and ed rendell aren't pulling their punches. i think specter is starting to feel the heat. the congressman challenging anymore a primary is going to join me on the program. get your cell phones ready. we want to know what you think about the democrats and big insurance. who's going to stand up to them. this may be president obama's biggest moment on health care. this is as i would say a make news night. and sometimes the news just falls flat in your lap. the timing couldn't be better for the president to remind the american people that the insurance industry needs some serious reform. united health care served approximately 70 million people in 2008. the company posted a gross